July 30, 2025 • 26 mins
Firstly, The Indian Express’ Ravi Dutta Mishra talks about India’s newly signed Free Trade Agreement with the United Kingdom and how it impacts labor-intensive sectors, agriculture, mobility of workers, and why it might be premature to label the deal a success.
Next, we talk to The Indian Express’ Aiswarya Raj on the latest in a series of stampedes at religious sites, this time at Haridwar’s Mansa Devi Temple which claimed eight lives. (17:58)
Lastly, we talk about a midnight mob intrusion in Pune’s Chandan Nagar, where a Muslim family, whose members have served in the Indian Army, was accused of being Bangladeshi immigrants. (23:40)
Hosted by Ichha Sharma
Produced and written by Shashank Bhargava and Ichha Sharma
Edited and Mixed by Suresh Pawar
Next, we talk to The Indian Express’ Aiswarya Raj on the latest in a series of stampedes at religious sites, this time at Haridwar’s Mansa Devi Temple which claimed eight lives. (17:58)
Lastly, we talk about a midnight mob intrusion in Pune’s Chandan Nagar, where a Muslim family, whose members have served in the Indian Army, was accused of being Bangladeshi immigrants. (23:40)
Hosted by Ichha Sharma
Produced and written by Shashank Bhargava and Ichha Sharma
Edited and Mixed by Suresh Pawar
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, we discuss what led to the Haridwar
stampede that killed eight and injured thirty others. We also
talk about a mob entering the house of an army
veteran and labeling him Bangladeshi. But we begin today by
discussing the India UK trade and why it might be
a bit premature to count it as a success. Hi,
(00:24):
I'm a Chasharma and you're listening to three Things the
Indian Express New show. Last week, India made a major
stride in its global trade strategy by signing the much
awaited Bilateral Free Trade Agreement with the United Kingdom, its
first full fledged deal with the developed nation. The deal
(00:46):
was signed against the backdrop of a volatile global trade
environment with threats of reciprocal tariffs by the United States
under President Donald Trump. In fact, it was just yesterday
that Trump confirmed India will face twenty five percent time
griffs plus a penalty, though he did not clarify what
exactly that penalty would be now. As part of the agreement,
India has secured market access for key job creating sectors
(01:10):
like textiles, footwear, gems and jewelry and marine products, where
the UK is set to eliminate duties of up to
twenty percent, and the negotiators have also managed to remove
import duties on nearly ninety nine point seven percent of
all Indian exports over a period of ten years. To
understand the key components of this deal and assess what
(01:32):
it means for trade, jobs and the overall economy, Mike
colleague Shashan Bhargav speaks to the Indian expresses Ravidatameshra.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So, Ravi, we understand that this deal was years in
the making right. In fact, India had wanted to get
something like this done as far back as twenty seventeen.
So talk about what took so long.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So there are a number of issues when we are
discussing a trade deal with a Western trade partners, because
you know, they've been signing free trade agreements for a
long time. They are ahead of us in this game,
and for us losing the you know, protectionism took a
fair bit of time. Opening up our automobile industry would
be a very problematic thing, maybe a decade back or
(02:16):
a two tickets back. But now we have finally decided
that in order to get some access in some other sector,
we'll have to open up.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So that's where the needle has moved.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
And yes, after twenty twenty there was a political crisis
in UK after Brexit in twenty sixteen. There were three
prime ministers from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four.
And finally when Kirs Starmer came into the picture with
a very strong majority, that's when you know the deal
(02:46):
moved forward.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, And I guess one of the impectus for this
deal would also be the US tariffs, right, because India
especially has been very concerned about that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Oh absolutely, So when we talked to you know, trade experts,
these are the things that they say, this is a
Trump effect.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Number One, there will be.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
An increased amount of a dumping, you know, because China
will be looking for different markets. Number Two, there will
be more and more deal making across the world because
a huge trade partner is now becoming unpredictable. So a
deal is nothing but looking for certainty, looking for a
legal framework where investments trade can flow smoothly. And that
(03:24):
is that you might be seeing across the newspapers. US
is signing a deal with Japan, and you know, multiple
such deals are happening because we need certainty.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And before we get into the details of this deal,
could you just give us a broad outline as to
how it is expected to help in there.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So you know, one of our deep seated concerns or
problems are jobs and investment, and that has been the
case for a long time. So from two thousand, you know,
our labor intensive sectors like textile, footwear, marine products, gems
and jewelry, they have not seen a substantial increase. And
(04:04):
when these sectors don't grow, you see job losses. And
this is the time last twenty years, this is the
time when Vietnam went ahead. Vietnam is a smaller country
than India, much smaller country China. Of course, with the
tariffs in the western markets, they have gotten ahead. So
the share that should have come to India because of
the size and scale of our country, the capacity that
(04:26):
we can deliver we have not been able to but
we can has not happened. So these free trade agreements
were necessary. They could not take place before and we
lost that opportunity. So that is the big picture here,
getting trade related jobs which primarily come in the textiles,
gems and jewelry, marine products, and that has been our
(04:49):
key ask in every FDA.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And what about UK. What is UK getting out of
this deal?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Okay, UK is getting you know, entry into big markets
in India. One is automobile and the other is Scotch whisky.
And these are the two things that they want to
get market access across the world.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
They are good at it.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Scotland is known for GI Scotch and automobile because automobile
can help them get that industrial power back, because that is.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
The nature of automobile industry.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Once automobile industry gains firm footing, there will be component
industry that will come in and there will be allied industry.
So it's kind of a big deal. If India has
allowed access to automobile. Of course, in a very staggered manner,
things will happen or duties will go down in a
period of ten years. But this is we have losing
our protectionism in some sense. So that is what UK
(05:42):
is getting.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Number two, of course, integrating our services market. We are
a large exporter of services.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
It services especially they need people, they need that kind
of integration. We also need that kind of integration. So
those were the and of course, of course China is
a big factor. Nobody talks about it, but everybody wants
to derisk themselves from China because of the stance that
China has taken. So that is one of the pillars
on which a lot of our trade deals are moving forward.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Okay, so let's take this step by step.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You mentioned that, you know, one of the big advantages
that India will get out of this deal is that
we're going to get more trade related jobs, especially in
labor intensive sectors like leather and textile. So talk about
in what way does this deal address that, especially in
terms of reducing tariffs.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Okay, So you know there are countries like Bangladesh, Cambodia.
Bangladesh especially they have zero duty access in the UK
market because of their LDC status Lease Developed Countries LDC,
so that is what it stands for. And Bangladesh getting
zero duty access means that all the jobs are going
to Bangladesh. And Bangladesh has twice as big as a
(06:53):
textile industry than US, and we are a bigger nation,
we have more sectors. But the job problem is the
same in the Southeast Asian countries, you know. So there
are countries like Vietnam, there are countries like Bangladesh, Cambodia
who have gotten a bigger foothold in the UK market,
in the US market, in the European market, and we
have not. So the one way in which we can
(07:16):
bring parity to this situation is by getting FDA done
and reducing those tariffs, and that is what has happened
in the UK deal. Now, immediately, you know, getting a
tariff reduction does not mean that you will sell more products,
does not mean that jobs will automatically flow, right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
This is only giving us an opportunity to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Absolutely, this is only bringing us at par with other competitors.
Now we have a lot of problems. We have a
problem of producing enough cotton, we have a problem in
the labor sector, and those are impediments that we'll have
to work on in order to finally get the benefit.
Because we have had a trade deal with Japan where
we got market access in textile that did not result
(07:58):
in greater exports. So yes, it is only the start,
and how much we will be able to benefit depends
on the industry, the textile ministry, the commerce ministry, and
the broader policy push.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And by the way, you mentioned India's competitors in the UK.
You know Bangladesh and Vietnam is China a competitor in
that sense.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Oh absolutely, that is the elephant in the room.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
China faces over twenty percent tariffs and still it has
the largest chunk of the market because China is competitive.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And you know, there's an interesting bit of a thing
here to.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Understand, China has not signed as many FTAs as other
nations have. China has always relied on reducing cheaper products,
having that scale and giving that kind of stability in
other markets.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So that has been the China model and they have
been successful.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
To a larger extent. And if you want to compete
with China, get that market share. The roadmap is always competitiveness.
It's not only FDA that will deliver. There has to
be products which can beat the Chinese products, the Bangladeshi products,
the Vietnamese products, and that has not happened as of now.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oken we were earlier talking about cars and whiskey. Now
this is one sector which India has opened up for
the UK. Talk about what have been some of the
reactions to this, because this is happening at a time
when the domestic whiskey market and gin market have been
opening up. Talk about how this industry has reacted to this.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So the you know, industry usually is not very welcoming
to competition for obvious reasons. But in case of our
alcohol beverage industry, they have not really happy about it.
But you have to open up something to get something else.
That is what the government's stand is. And somebody yesterday
in the ministry was telling me that, you know, the
amount of scotch that Scotland produces is less than the
(09:48):
scotch we consume in our country, so you can understand
the quality that is coming in. So the consumers also
way in. That factor is also there, and we have
the industry of blending, you know, we can import scotch
and then sell it to maybe become an exporter as well.
So there are a lot of discontent in the industry
on maturations, especially this debate was happening UK say, is
(10:11):
that the standard amount of time when a whiskey matures
and can be called whiskey is three years, and our
industry had said that, look, we were a hotter country,
you have to loosen up this standard. It can't be
three years. Our whisky matures in one or two years.
So that debate was always there and no resolution could arrive.
But then yeah, that is the nature of trade. You
(10:31):
lose something, you get something.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And you know, this trade deal also concerns agricultural products,
and agriculture in India has always been a sensitive issue.
It's a political issue. In the past couple of years
we've seen a number of very intense farmers protests.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Talk about in what way does this deal address that?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
So in this deal we have gotten access in the
UK market for a number of products. Around fifty to
sixty percent of our product lines been opened. But the
problem here again is the standards. You know, you might
have seen you might have read story last month or
a couple of months back.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
US rejected five lack worth of.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Mangos that were sent because it did not match the quality.
And that is the big picture. You know, our standards
are not at part with what they demand. Sometimes these
are non tiff barriers also, which means that they will
impose certain rules just to restrict your products. But at
times standards are also issue. So that is where we
need to work. But what our officials say is that
(11:33):
there is a broader alignment as in they will agree
to our way of checking things and you know, purifying things,
and work is going on and that will go on
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And also this is the first time that India has
allowed UK firms to participate in government tenders, offering them
a Class two status under the Make in India rules.
So talk a bit about that to what extent does
this benefit the UK and what does it do for India.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
So you know, tenders worth above five to six scrores
will be open for UK and this has been a
kind of a no go area for India in the
last number of f fts that we have except for UE.
So what the industry says, in order to get access
in other countries public procurement, you have to also open up.
(12:23):
For instance, in Ua, it was more than their interest.
It was our interest to get access in UA, especially construction.
UE has been kind of developing at a faster rate
and that's where we wanted to get in. Our exporters
wanted to get in. And you know, the needle has
moved in terms of public procurement. We are becoming less
and less stringent. But what one official was telling me, yes,
(12:43):
it is there is still significant amount of protection for
the domestic manufacturers like mss MSMEs are treated as Class
one and UK will be Class two, so priority will
still be given to MSMEs and that is the major
industry which MSMs rely on.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
The other sort of bone of contention between the two
nations had been the mobility of workers. Right for the
past couple of years, Indians have faced issues when trying
to get jobs in the UK. Although one of the
things that we have discussed in the past when it
comes to this deal is the social security aspect skilled
workers and their employers. They won't have to pay social
(13:22):
security up to three years now. But talk a bit
more about this point. What does this deal do for this,
you know, ease of mobility.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know, services is extremely important when you're dealing with
a Western trade partner because in terms of goods, the
market is still limited, you know, it's not expanding at
that pace like ours. So services is where you can
integrate with the market and perhaps acrue some benefits. In
the UK's case, we have not gotten any additional luisas
(13:51):
or you know, anything very specific in terms of more
for but what we have gotten is a tax relief
of interco put it transfer easy. You know, people who
go there for three years and there's a bit of
a tax relief there and their dependents will also be
able to work, they will be able to take their
families there.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So there's a bit of a cushion.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
But my reading is that services we should have gotten
more access because that's where the real benefit lies.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And also one of the things that you have reported
on is that in this trade deal, India has failed
to get concessions for small and medium enterprises under the
UK's carbon Border Adjustment mechanism, which basically places a carbon
tax on certain imported goods.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Talk about how big of a concern that is for India.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
So you know, carbon tax. Ever since we started negotiating
a trade deal with the West, this was the elephant
in the room, so to say, because while China is
considered to be a very big manufacturing power and they
push so many products, it would have been very difficult.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
For us to gain any market access in China.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
The problem with the West was that they were going
to impose Seabam carbon tax. And the nature of carbon
tax is that it is ever expanding. They have five
products that they're talking about right now. They have provisions
in Seabam that will expand to various other sectors. So
you never know how big of a barrier will SEABAM
(15:20):
pose in the future.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Now this is a separate thing.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
What our officials say that SEABAM has not been implemented
as of now and so it cannot be part of
the deal. But Indian Express had reported on May sixth
that a provision was inserted in the deal and now
if it is not there, I can only reduce that
UK did not agree to it.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
So the problem here is that you have won tariff concessions.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Over the period of ten years, you will get market access,
you will get reduced duet to ninety nine percent of
the tariff lines. But in twenty twenty seven, if they
take back some of those concessions under some other tax policy,
then what good is the negotiations?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
What good are these things? So that is a big
concern at the moment.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What our minister said is that if they hurt our interests,
we will also retaliate.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
But then a deal was.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Supposed to bring us closer and not you know, push
us further apart, and that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We you know, finally just to take a step back.
I mean, this deal has been celebrated a lot, but
what listeners also need to keep in mind is that
this is just an opportunity because unless we capitalize on this,
we won't be able to benefit from it. For example,
when it comes to mobility of workers, we need skilled
workers for that, and that means we'll have to invest
(16:37):
in better education and skilling programs. When it comes to
capitalizing on certain exports, we'll have to ensure that we
have the necessary regulatory framework and we have industries set
up in a way that they will produce quality products.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
You know that UK can accept one percent on the dot,
so you getting a trade deal is only half the
battle you have won. You have signed deals with a
number of countries. It's not like we have not signed deals.
We have side deals with our young countries.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We've signed with Japan a number of such deals.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But what pattern is emerging from there is the other
countries tend to sell more than we are able to
because we lack competitiveness. So competitiveness and trade deals go
hand in hand. You can't have a lot of trade
deals and then not produce anything, not sell, not be competitive,
and that has been the problem. But of course the
(17:29):
work is going on. A fair bit of work on
logistics has gone on. You get out and talk to anybody,
they will say that roads have gotten better in certain areas.
But then you also will hear that the industrial growth
is still stuck. And that is the solution to all
our problems. We have to bring in investments, like our
finance ministers see Theaman keeps talking about private investments are
(17:51):
still not coming in and those will require broader policy
push and not just a trade deal.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And next we shift our focus to yet another stampede,
this time in Utrakhan. Over the past few months, we
have reported on several such incidents in Urisha, Uttar Pradesh
and Goa, all of them unfolding during large religious gatherings.
What we have seen is that these stampedes are often
triggered not just by overcrowding, but also by fear, poor
(18:24):
infrastructure and a lack of timely response. And now a
similar tragedy unfolded in the early hours of Sunday at
Haridwa's Mansadevi Temple. This time it was a rumor that
an electrical wire had snapped. This roumor quickly spread through
the crowd and caused panic, leading to a stampede that
left at least eight people dead and around thirty others injured.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
So Mansadevi Temple is situated around five hundred meters above
the sea level.
Speaker 7 (18:53):
This is the Indian Express.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Is Ashwari Raj who reported on the story for the newspaper.
This is an and it's situated quite near Hurky body
where Kawariya thre Is go to collect Ghanga water and
this is also one of their stops. They go from
Herrikeey body to Mansadavi Temple and especially in the month
of seven, a lot of visitors are expected in the temple,
(19:16):
but they do not keep an official count. They do
not have a registration system, which is why according to
temple authorities, an estimate they have is between twenty thousand
people between.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
Five and nine am on any day in seven.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
So especially when the stampede happened, it was a Sunday morning,
they had around twenty thousand people from this five am
to nine am, and if we compare it to figures
outside the season, it's around five thousand people daily. So
they saw the visitors around four time z figures on
that particular morning.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
She tells us that the one point five kilometer stretch
leading up to the temple is narrow and often extremely congested.
The pavement is less than three meters wide and serves
as the only footpath for both those entering and exiting
the shrine. So to understand what exactly happened at the
temple and what the authorities have said in response, we
(20:08):
spoke to Eshwaria who began by telling us what led
up to the incident.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
So around eight point forty the police got information that
there was a stampede and we get to know from
the fire registered that this was triggered by panic by
someone allegedly saying that there was an electrical wire and
current was passing through it which led to the stampede situation.
The f fire is also against unknown persons for spreading
(20:35):
the rumor. But we also have to factor in other
things as well, because when we look at the ramp,
which is a pedestrian power for people, it's such a
short path and people exiting and entering the temple use
this pedestrian path, which is why it was quite crammed
on that day.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
And if you're saying these.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
Many people are attending or going to the temple in Saven,
that means they should have had proper arrangements, which a
lot of people, a lot of devotees as well as
the staff working there have said that they had relaxed arrangements,
especially after Carbardiatra, because they were not expecting a lot
of people. So around eight forty it is said that
someone was trying to tug a wire and it broke
(21:15):
off from the circuit box and they alleged that there
was an electrical cut and passing through it and this
resulted in the rush. Also recently the authorities have also
started this anti encroachment campaign and three meter wide part
encroached upon by shops on one side and they have
started this anti encroachment drive to remove these shops. And
(21:35):
Ashwarya tell us what has the administration said about this
incident so far, like how has it responded to it.
So the administration and police have been the blame completely
on the rumor which allegedly created panic among the people.
And there was also little information about why there was
no registration, why there was no head count or you know,
(21:55):
instructions about carrying capacity because it's also atop a hill
and there was little discussion on crowd control. And when
we spoke with the witnesses as well as the victims,
they said that there were very few police officers and
even after they saw the stampede happen, it took some
time for them to get deployed come down and help
(22:17):
these people out.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
So those are lacy in that part as well.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
And speaking about the victims, could to talk a bit
about who they are and what do we know about
the families affected.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
The diseased are mainly from Utah Pradesh. Six of them
are from Utah Pradesh, one from Bihar and one from
Cashipur and Udrakhant and three of them were children.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And lastly, Ashwa what precautionary measures are being suggested for
better management in such situations.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
In the wake of this stampede.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
The Disaster Management Department in Utrakhan government, they have said
that they have acknowledged the fact that children and elderly
people were the vulnerable population that they got affected disproportionately,
and they have said that they would take crowd control measures.
So they said that they wouldn't put a cap on
the number of people visiting the pilgrimage centers, but they
(23:06):
would try to limit the number of people there at
one time. And also another thing that we should consider
is that there was this blockade on the path. Whenever
there is an increase in the number of devotees. The
police used to block the path, but this time they
did not. They allegedly did not. That's what the witnesses
and the victims claimed, which is why the rush was
(23:28):
too much and too hard to control. So the administration
in the wake of it has said that they would
try to control the numbers. They would enforce more barricading
and improve the arrangements so as to averid such incidents.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And in the end we shift our focus to an
alarming incident in Pone. It has now come to light
that a group of sixty to seventy people entered the
home of a Muslim family in Poone's Stun the Nugger
last week, accusing them of being illegal Bangladeshi immigrants and
demanding to see their citizenship documents. The family notably includes
(24:07):
members who have served in the Indian Army, including a
veteran of the Kargil War. According to a report by
The Indian Express's Sohamshah, Shamshad Shaikh, a resident of the house,
said the mob entered around midnight, kicked open the door
and began searching the home. Groups of people went into
different rooms, waking up women and children. Even after the
(24:27):
family showed them adharkards, panguards and voter IDs. The group
insisted the documents were fake. Plane clothed police officers were
reportedly present during the incident, but did not intervene to
stop the harassment. Instead, family members were taken to the
Chandan Naggart police station and instructed to return the next morning,
(24:47):
with one officer allegedly stating they would be declared Bangladeshi's
if they failed to appear. Shah reports that a formal
complaint was laid a file at the police station, and
according to the Deputy Commissioner of Police Somayamun, the police
had received a tip off about suspected illegal Bangladeshi nationals.
He said the operation was part of a combing exercise
(25:07):
to verify the status of people allegedly from Assam, and
confirmed that the family members were brought in for questioning
but released that night. The investigation into both the mob
intrusion and the citizenship claims is currently ongoing. Ishah Dehmad,
one of the family members, said they have been living
in Poney since the nineteen sixties. He also said that
(25:28):
their family has a long military history, with members who
served in the nineteen sixty five, nineteen seventy one and
Kargil Wars. They even shared photographs of Army ID cards
and pension documents with the police and media, including those
belonging to Kargil War veteran Hakimutin Emma. The expressed frustration
that despite the service to the country, they were subjected
(25:49):
to such suspicion and humiliation in their own home. Shafur
The reports that local political figures, including NCP leader Pradeeb Deshmuk,
condemned the incident and demanded action. Deishmuk said no one
has the right to take the law into their own
hands and that if any police personnel supported the mob,
they too should be held accountable. You were listening to
(26:13):
Three Things by The Indian Express. Today's show was edited
and mixed by Seshavar and produced by Shishang Hahgov and
me Ichasharma. If you like the show, do subscribe to
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(26:35):
at podcast at indian express dot com
In this episode, we discuss what led to the Haridwar
stampede that killed eight and injured thirty others. We also
talk about a mob entering the house of an army
veteran and labeling him Bangladeshi. But we begin today by
discussing the India UK trade and why it might be
a bit premature to count it as a success. Hi,
(00:24):
I'm a Chasharma and you're listening to three Things the
Indian Express New show. Last week, India made a major
stride in its global trade strategy by signing the much
awaited Bilateral Free Trade Agreement with the United Kingdom, its
first full fledged deal with the developed nation. The deal
(00:46):
was signed against the backdrop of a volatile global trade
environment with threats of reciprocal tariffs by the United States
under President Donald Trump. In fact, it was just yesterday
that Trump confirmed India will face twenty five percent time
griffs plus a penalty, though he did not clarify what
exactly that penalty would be now. As part of the agreement,
India has secured market access for key job creating sectors
(01:10):
like textiles, footwear, gems and jewelry and marine products, where
the UK is set to eliminate duties of up to
twenty percent, and the negotiators have also managed to remove
import duties on nearly ninety nine point seven percent of
all Indian exports over a period of ten years. To
understand the key components of this deal and assess what
(01:32):
it means for trade, jobs and the overall economy, Mike
colleague Shashan Bhargav speaks to the Indian expresses Ravidatameshra.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So, Ravi, we understand that this deal was years in
the making right. In fact, India had wanted to get
something like this done as far back as twenty seventeen.
So talk about what took so long.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So there are a number of issues when we are
discussing a trade deal with a Western trade partners, because
you know, they've been signing free trade agreements for a
long time. They are ahead of us in this game,
and for us losing the you know, protectionism took a
fair bit of time. Opening up our automobile industry would
be a very problematic thing, maybe a decade back or
(02:16):
a two tickets back. But now we have finally decided
that in order to get some access in some other sector,
we'll have to open up.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So that's where the needle has moved.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
And yes, after twenty twenty there was a political crisis
in UK after Brexit in twenty sixteen. There were three
prime ministers from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four.
And finally when Kirs Starmer came into the picture with
a very strong majority, that's when you know the deal
(02:46):
moved forward.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, And I guess one of the impectus for this
deal would also be the US tariffs, right, because India
especially has been very concerned about that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Oh absolutely, So when we talked to you know, trade experts,
these are the things that they say, this is a
Trump effect.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Number One, there will be.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
An increased amount of a dumping, you know, because China
will be looking for different markets. Number Two, there will
be more and more deal making across the world because
a huge trade partner is now becoming unpredictable. So a
deal is nothing but looking for certainty, looking for a
legal framework where investments trade can flow smoothly. And that
(03:24):
is that you might be seeing across the newspapers. US
is signing a deal with Japan, and you know, multiple
such deals are happening because we need certainty.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And before we get into the details of this deal,
could you just give us a broad outline as to
how it is expected to help in there.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So you know, one of our deep seated concerns or
problems are jobs and investment, and that has been the
case for a long time. So from two thousand, you know,
our labor intensive sectors like textile, footwear, marine products, gems
and jewelry, they have not seen a substantial increase. And
(04:04):
when these sectors don't grow, you see job losses. And
this is the time last twenty years, this is the
time when Vietnam went ahead. Vietnam is a smaller country
than India, much smaller country China. Of course, with the
tariffs in the western markets, they have gotten ahead. So
the share that should have come to India because of
the size and scale of our country, the capacity that
(04:26):
we can deliver we have not been able to but
we can has not happened. So these free trade agreements
were necessary. They could not take place before and we
lost that opportunity. So that is the big picture here,
getting trade related jobs which primarily come in the textiles,
gems and jewelry, marine products, and that has been our
(04:49):
key ask in every FDA.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And what about UK. What is UK getting out of
this deal?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Okay, UK is getting you know, entry into big markets
in India. One is automobile and the other is Scotch whisky.
And these are the two things that they want to
get market access across the world.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
They are good at it.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Scotland is known for GI Scotch and automobile because automobile
can help them get that industrial power back, because that is.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
The nature of automobile industry.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Once automobile industry gains firm footing, there will be component
industry that will come in and there will be allied industry.
So it's kind of a big deal. If India has
allowed access to automobile. Of course, in a very staggered manner,
things will happen or duties will go down in a
period of ten years. But this is we have losing
our protectionism in some sense. So that is what UK
(05:42):
is getting.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Number two, of course, integrating our services market. We are
a large exporter of services.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
It services especially they need people, they need that kind
of integration. We also need that kind of integration. So
those were the and of course, of course China is
a big factor. Nobody talks about it, but everybody wants
to derisk themselves from China because of the stance that
China has taken. So that is one of the pillars
on which a lot of our trade deals are moving forward.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Okay, so let's take this step by step.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You mentioned that, you know, one of the big advantages
that India will get out of this deal is that
we're going to get more trade related jobs, especially in
labor intensive sectors like leather and textile. So talk about
in what way does this deal address that, especially in
terms of reducing tariffs.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Okay, So you know there are countries like Bangladesh, Cambodia.
Bangladesh especially they have zero duty access in the UK
market because of their LDC status Lease Developed Countries LDC,
so that is what it stands for. And Bangladesh getting
zero duty access means that all the jobs are going
to Bangladesh. And Bangladesh has twice as big as a
(06:53):
textile industry than US, and we are a bigger nation,
we have more sectors. But the job problem is the
same in the Southeast Asian countries, you know. So there
are countries like Vietnam, there are countries like Bangladesh, Cambodia
who have gotten a bigger foothold in the UK market,
in the US market, in the European market, and we
have not. So the one way in which we can
(07:16):
bring parity to this situation is by getting FDA done
and reducing those tariffs, and that is what has happened
in the UK deal. Now, immediately, you know, getting a
tariff reduction does not mean that you will sell more products,
does not mean that jobs will automatically flow, right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
This is only giving us an opportunity to do that.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Absolutely, this is only bringing us at par with other competitors.
Now we have a lot of problems. We have a
problem of producing enough cotton, we have a problem in
the labor sector, and those are impediments that we'll have
to work on in order to finally get the benefit.
Because we have had a trade deal with Japan where
we got market access in textile that did not result
(07:58):
in greater exports. So yes, it is only the start,
and how much we will be able to benefit depends
on the industry, the textile ministry, the commerce ministry, and
the broader policy push.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And by the way, you mentioned India's competitors in the UK.
You know Bangladesh and Vietnam is China a competitor in
that sense.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Oh absolutely, that is the elephant in the room.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
China faces over twenty percent tariffs and still it has
the largest chunk of the market because China is competitive.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And you know, there's an interesting bit of a thing
here to.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Understand, China has not signed as many FTAs as other
nations have. China has always relied on reducing cheaper products,
having that scale and giving that kind of stability in
other markets.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So that has been the China model and they have
been successful.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
To a larger extent. And if you want to compete
with China, get that market share. The roadmap is always competitiveness.
It's not only FDA that will deliver. There has to
be products which can beat the Chinese products, the Bangladeshi products,
the Vietnamese products, and that has not happened as of now.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oken we were earlier talking about cars and whiskey. Now
this is one sector which India has opened up for
the UK. Talk about what have been some of the
reactions to this, because this is happening at a time
when the domestic whiskey market and gin market have been
opening up. Talk about how this industry has reacted to this.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So the you know, industry usually is not very welcoming
to competition for obvious reasons. But in case of our
alcohol beverage industry, they have not really happy about it.
But you have to open up something to get something else.
That is what the government's stand is. And somebody yesterday
in the ministry was telling me that, you know, the
amount of scotch that Scotland produces is less than the
(09:48):
scotch we consume in our country, so you can understand
the quality that is coming in. So the consumers also
way in. That factor is also there, and we have
the industry of blending, you know, we can import scotch
and then sell it to maybe become an exporter as well.
So there are a lot of discontent in the industry
on maturations, especially this debate was happening UK say, is
(10:11):
that the standard amount of time when a whiskey matures
and can be called whiskey is three years, and our
industry had said that, look, we were a hotter country,
you have to loosen up this standard. It can't be
three years. Our whisky matures in one or two years.
So that debate was always there and no resolution could arrive.
But then yeah, that is the nature of trade. You
(10:31):
lose something, you get something.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And you know, this trade deal also concerns agricultural products,
and agriculture in India has always been a sensitive issue.
It's a political issue. In the past couple of years
we've seen a number of very intense farmers protests.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Talk about in what way does this deal address that?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
So in this deal we have gotten access in the
UK market for a number of products. Around fifty to
sixty percent of our product lines been opened. But the
problem here again is the standards. You know, you might
have seen you might have read story last month or
a couple of months back.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
US rejected five lack worth of.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Mangos that were sent because it did not match the quality.
And that is the big picture. You know, our standards
are not at part with what they demand. Sometimes these
are non tiff barriers also, which means that they will
impose certain rules just to restrict your products. But at
times standards are also issue. So that is where we
need to work. But what our officials say is that
(11:33):
there is a broader alignment as in they will agree
to our way of checking things and you know, purifying things,
and work is going on and that will go on
for a long time.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And also this is the first time that India has
allowed UK firms to participate in government tenders, offering them
a Class two status under the Make in India rules.
So talk a bit about that to what extent does
this benefit the UK and what does it do for India.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
So you know, tenders worth above five to six scrores
will be open for UK and this has been a
kind of a no go area for India in the
last number of f fts that we have except for UE.
So what the industry says, in order to get access
in other countries public procurement, you have to also open up.
(12:23):
For instance, in Ua, it was more than their interest.
It was our interest to get access in UA, especially construction.
UE has been kind of developing at a faster rate
and that's where we wanted to get in. Our exporters
wanted to get in. And you know, the needle has
moved in terms of public procurement. We are becoming less
and less stringent. But what one official was telling me, yes,
(12:43):
it is there is still significant amount of protection for
the domestic manufacturers like mss MSMEs are treated as Class
one and UK will be Class two, so priority will
still be given to MSMEs and that is the major
industry which MSMs rely on.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
The other sort of bone of contention between the two
nations had been the mobility of workers. Right for the
past couple of years, Indians have faced issues when trying
to get jobs in the UK. Although one of the
things that we have discussed in the past when it
comes to this deal is the social security aspect skilled
workers and their employers. They won't have to pay social
(13:22):
security up to three years now. But talk a bit
more about this point. What does this deal do for this,
you know, ease of mobility.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know, services is extremely important when you're dealing with
a Western trade partner because in terms of goods, the
market is still limited, you know, it's not expanding at
that pace like ours. So services is where you can
integrate with the market and perhaps acrue some benefits. In
the UK's case, we have not gotten any additional luisas
(13:51):
or you know, anything very specific in terms of more
for but what we have gotten is a tax relief
of interco put it transfer easy. You know, people who
go there for three years and there's a bit of
a tax relief there and their dependents will also be
able to work, they will be able to take their
families there.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So there's a bit of a cushion.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
But my reading is that services we should have gotten
more access because that's where the real benefit lies.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And also one of the things that you have reported
on is that in this trade deal, India has failed
to get concessions for small and medium enterprises under the
UK's carbon Border Adjustment mechanism, which basically places a carbon
tax on certain imported goods.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Talk about how big of a concern that is for India.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
So you know, carbon tax. Ever since we started negotiating
a trade deal with the West, this was the elephant
in the room, so to say, because while China is
considered to be a very big manufacturing power and they
push so many products, it would have been very difficult.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
For us to gain any market access in China.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
The problem with the West was that they were going
to impose Seabam carbon tax. And the nature of carbon
tax is that it is ever expanding. They have five
products that they're talking about right now. They have provisions
in Seabam that will expand to various other sectors. So
you never know how big of a barrier will SEABAM
(15:20):
pose in the future.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Now this is a separate thing.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
What our officials say that SEABAM has not been implemented
as of now and so it cannot be part of
the deal. But Indian Express had reported on May sixth
that a provision was inserted in the deal and now
if it is not there, I can only reduce that
UK did not agree to it.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
So the problem here is that you have won tariff concessions.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Over the period of ten years, you will get market access,
you will get reduced duet to ninety nine percent of
the tariff lines. But in twenty twenty seven, if they
take back some of those concessions under some other tax policy,
then what good is the negotiations?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
What good are these things? So that is a big
concern at the moment.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
What our minister said is that if they hurt our interests,
we will also retaliate.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
But then a deal was.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Supposed to bring us closer and not you know, push
us further apart, and that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We you know, finally just to take a step back.
I mean, this deal has been celebrated a lot, but
what listeners also need to keep in mind is that
this is just an opportunity because unless we capitalize on this,
we won't be able to benefit from it. For example,
when it comes to mobility of workers, we need skilled
workers for that, and that means we'll have to invest
(16:37):
in better education and skilling programs. When it comes to
capitalizing on certain exports, we'll have to ensure that we
have the necessary regulatory framework and we have industries set
up in a way that they will produce quality products.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
You know that UK can accept one percent on the dot,
so you getting a trade deal is only half the
battle you have won. You have signed deals with a
number of countries. It's not like we have not signed deals.
We have side deals with our young countries.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We've signed with Japan a number of such deals.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But what pattern is emerging from there is the other
countries tend to sell more than we are able to
because we lack competitiveness. So competitiveness and trade deals go
hand in hand. You can't have a lot of trade
deals and then not produce anything, not sell, not be competitive,
and that has been the problem. But of course the
(17:29):
work is going on. A fair bit of work on
logistics has gone on. You get out and talk to anybody,
they will say that roads have gotten better in certain areas.
But then you also will hear that the industrial growth
is still stuck. And that is the solution to all
our problems. We have to bring in investments, like our
finance ministers see Theaman keeps talking about private investments are
(17:51):
still not coming in and those will require broader policy
push and not just a trade deal.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And next we shift our focus to yet another stampede,
this time in Utrakhan. Over the past few months, we
have reported on several such incidents in Urisha, Uttar Pradesh
and Goa, all of them unfolding during large religious gatherings.
What we have seen is that these stampedes are often
triggered not just by overcrowding, but also by fear, poor
(18:24):
infrastructure and a lack of timely response. And now a
similar tragedy unfolded in the early hours of Sunday at
Haridwa's Mansadevi Temple. This time it was a rumor that
an electrical wire had snapped. This roumor quickly spread through
the crowd and caused panic, leading to a stampede that
left at least eight people dead and around thirty others injured.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
So Mansadevi Temple is situated around five hundred meters above
the sea level.
Speaker 7 (18:53):
This is the Indian Express.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Is Ashwari Raj who reported on the story for the newspaper.
This is an and it's situated quite near Hurky body
where Kawariya thre Is go to collect Ghanga water and
this is also one of their stops. They go from
Herrikeey body to Mansadavi Temple and especially in the month
of seven, a lot of visitors are expected in the temple,
(19:16):
but they do not keep an official count. They do
not have a registration system, which is why according to
temple authorities, an estimate they have is between twenty thousand
people between.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
Five and nine am on any day in seven.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
So especially when the stampede happened, it was a Sunday morning,
they had around twenty thousand people from this five am
to nine am, and if we compare it to figures
outside the season, it's around five thousand people daily. So
they saw the visitors around four time z figures on
that particular morning.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
She tells us that the one point five kilometer stretch
leading up to the temple is narrow and often extremely congested.
The pavement is less than three meters wide and serves
as the only footpath for both those entering and exiting
the shrine. So to understand what exactly happened at the
temple and what the authorities have said in response, we
(20:08):
spoke to Eshwaria who began by telling us what led
up to the incident.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
So around eight point forty the police got information that
there was a stampede and we get to know from
the fire registered that this was triggered by panic by
someone allegedly saying that there was an electrical wire and
current was passing through it which led to the stampede situation.
The f fire is also against unknown persons for spreading
(20:35):
the rumor. But we also have to factor in other
things as well, because when we look at the ramp,
which is a pedestrian power for people, it's such a
short path and people exiting and entering the temple use
this pedestrian path, which is why it was quite crammed
on that day.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
And if you're saying these.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
Many people are attending or going to the temple in Saven,
that means they should have had proper arrangements, which a
lot of people, a lot of devotees as well as
the staff working there have said that they had relaxed arrangements,
especially after Carbardiatra, because they were not expecting a lot
of people. So around eight forty it is said that
someone was trying to tug a wire and it broke
(21:15):
off from the circuit box and they alleged that there
was an electrical cut and passing through it and this
resulted in the rush. Also recently the authorities have also
started this anti encroachment campaign and three meter wide part
encroached upon by shops on one side and they have
started this anti encroachment drive to remove these shops. And
(21:35):
Ashwarya tell us what has the administration said about this
incident so far, like how has it responded to it.
So the administration and police have been the blame completely
on the rumor which allegedly created panic among the people.
And there was also little information about why there was
no registration, why there was no head count or you know,
(21:55):
instructions about carrying capacity because it's also atop a hill
and there was little discussion on crowd control. And when
we spoke with the witnesses as well as the victims,
they said that there were very few police officers and
even after they saw the stampede happen, it took some
time for them to get deployed come down and help
(22:17):
these people out.
Speaker 7 (22:18):
So those are lacy in that part as well.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
And speaking about the victims, could to talk a bit
about who they are and what do we know about
the families affected.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
The diseased are mainly from Utah Pradesh. Six of them
are from Utah Pradesh, one from Bihar and one from
Cashipur and Udrakhant and three of them were children.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And lastly, Ashwa what precautionary measures are being suggested for
better management in such situations.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
In the wake of this stampede.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
The Disaster Management Department in Utrakhan government, they have said
that they have acknowledged the fact that children and elderly
people were the vulnerable population that they got affected disproportionately,
and they have said that they would take crowd control measures.
So they said that they wouldn't put a cap on
the number of people visiting the pilgrimage centers, but they
(23:06):
would try to limit the number of people there at
one time. And also another thing that we should consider
is that there was this blockade on the path. Whenever
there is an increase in the number of devotees. The
police used to block the path, but this time they
did not. They allegedly did not. That's what the witnesses
and the victims claimed, which is why the rush was
(23:28):
too much and too hard to control. So the administration
in the wake of it has said that they would
try to control the numbers. They would enforce more barricading
and improve the arrangements so as to averid such incidents.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And in the end we shift our focus to an
alarming incident in Pone. It has now come to light
that a group of sixty to seventy people entered the
home of a Muslim family in Poone's Stun the Nugger
last week, accusing them of being illegal Bangladeshi immigrants and
demanding to see their citizenship documents. The family notably includes
(24:07):
members who have served in the Indian Army, including a
veteran of the Kargil War. According to a report by
The Indian Express's Sohamshah, Shamshad Shaikh, a resident of the house,
said the mob entered around midnight, kicked open the door
and began searching the home. Groups of people went into
different rooms, waking up women and children. Even after the
(24:27):
family showed them adharkards, panguards and voter IDs. The group
insisted the documents were fake. Plane clothed police officers were
reportedly present during the incident, but did not intervene to
stop the harassment. Instead, family members were taken to the
Chandan Naggart police station and instructed to return the next morning,
(24:47):
with one officer allegedly stating they would be declared Bangladeshi's
if they failed to appear. Shah reports that a formal
complaint was laid a file at the police station, and
according to the Deputy Commissioner of Police Somayamun, the police
had received a tip off about suspected illegal Bangladeshi nationals.
He said the operation was part of a combing exercise
(25:07):
to verify the status of people allegedly from Assam, and
confirmed that the family members were brought in for questioning
but released that night. The investigation into both the mob
intrusion and the citizenship claims is currently ongoing. Ishah Dehmad,
one of the family members, said they have been living
in Poney since the nineteen sixties. He also said that
(25:28):
their family has a long military history, with members who
served in the nineteen sixty five, nineteen seventy one and
Kargil Wars. They even shared photographs of Army ID cards
and pension documents with the police and media, including those
belonging to Kargil War veteran Hakimutin Emma. The expressed frustration
that despite the service to the country, they were subjected
(25:49):
to such suspicion and humiliation in their own home. Shafur
The reports that local political figures, including NCP leader Pradeeb Deshmuk,
condemned the incident and demanded action. Deishmuk said no one
has the right to take the law into their own
hands and that if any police personnel supported the mob,
they too should be held accountable. You were listening to
(26:13):
Three Things by The Indian Express. Today's show was edited
and mixed by Seshavar and produced by Shishang Hahgov and
me Ichasharma. If you like the show, do subscribe to
us wherever you get your podcast. You can also recommend
it to someone you think may like it, with a
friend or in your family. This is the best way
for people to get to know about us. You can
also tweet us at Express podcast or write to us
(26:35):
at podcast at indian express dot com
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