July 31, 2025 • 29 mins
Firstly, we talk to the Indian Express' Amitabh Sinha about ISRO and NASA successfully launching a joint Earth observation satellite called NISAR.
Next, The Indian Express' Nikhil Ghanekar talks about the Supreme Court-appointed committee on the Great Indian Bustard that has submitted its recommendations, aiming to reconcile India's green energy push with the urgent need to protect this critically endangered bird. (16:28)
And finally, just as India celebrated its trade deal with the UK, a new challenge has emerged across the Atlantic. US President Donald Trump has announced a 25% tariff on Indian goods, citing India’s high import duties and its growing ties with Russia. (26:16)
Hosted by Ichha Sharma
Produced and written by Shashank Bhargava
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Next, The Indian Express' Nikhil Ghanekar talks about the Supreme Court-appointed committee on the Great Indian Bustard that has submitted its recommendations, aiming to reconcile India's green energy push with the urgent need to protect this critically endangered bird. (16:28)
And finally, just as India celebrated its trade deal with the UK, a new challenge has emerged across the Atlantic. US President Donald Trump has announced a 25% tariff on Indian goods, citing India’s high import duties and its growing ties with Russia. (26:16)
Hosted by Ichha Sharma
Produced and written by Shashank Bhargava
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, we talk about how a Supreme Court
appointed committee is planning to save the critically endangered Great
Indian Bustard. We also discuss US President Donald Trump's announcement
of a twenty five percent tariff on Indian goods. But
we begin today by turning to the skies and talking
about a first of its kind earth observation satellite. Hi,
(00:26):
I'm Atchasharma and you're listening to Three Things the Indian
Express New show. On Wedness Day, India's premier space agency
ISRO successfully launched an Earth observation satellite called Nissar. Now,
as many of you might know, earth observation satellites are
(00:46):
fairly common. In fact, there are hundreds of them currently
orbiting the planet. But the reason we're talking about this
particular one is because it's actually the most powerful Earth
observation satellite in space right now and was built in
collaboration with NASA. It's worth noting that this marks the
first time that NASA and ISRO have come together to
(01:08):
develop a satellite, a milestone in the growing partnership between
the two space agencies. So to know more about this
collaboration and what sets this satellite apart, my colleague Shahang
Bargav speaks to the inn and expresses a metapsinna.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Ameta tell us what makes this satellite unique? What sets
it apart from others that are in space right now?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Right So, from ISRU's perspective, it is probably the most
significant launch since chandrayan Thi, the moon landing mission. It
has launched satellites in between. Satellites, as you say, are
regularly launched not just by India but countries across the world.
That's not a big deal. But this particular satellite is
(01:52):
quite special. It's special for a lot of reasons. One,
it is a satellite that has been developed by India
and US basically ISRO and NASA through a joint development
And it's the first time that such a thing has happened,
the first time that the two space agencies have collaborated
(02:12):
on a hardware project. Half of the development has happened
in the US, half of it in India. So that
is something unique that has happened for the first time.
So that is one special part. But beyond this, the
satellite itself is very special.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, we understand that it has two stars, which stands
for synthetic aperture radars and this will allow it to
take some really high quality images. So tell our listeners
what these sars are.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yes, so sars are you know, the name has a
radar in its synthetic aperture radar. So one can imagine
the kind of radars that we are used to seeing
on ground. You know, huge dish antennas which are meant
to transmit and then collect these signals coming back from
bouncing off from objects, and then based on the analysis
(03:06):
of the incoming sort of bounced off radiation, they decipher
a lot of information about the objects that they have
bounced off from. So that's what basically a radar does.
Sars themselves are not very rare. You know, there are
lots of sars that are already in space.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Right, but this one has two of them.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yes, this has two of them. And as I said,
any radar tries to decipher information from radiation that are
bounced off from an object and gleaning that information or
analyzing that information. It can also produce images. Now we
are used to taking images from cameras which are like
optical images, but there are other ways of producing a
(03:46):
picture using non visible electromagnetic radiation. So you know, instead
of throwing light, you throw electromagnetic radiation of other wavelengths.
And they are very similar to in nature to lie,
just that they are not visible to our eyes, so
they can be used to create I majory as well.
And this is what SARS will do. As you said,
(04:08):
the unique thing about this one is that it carries
two SARS, two synthetic aperture ours, something that has never
been done before and Amata.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Because this satellite has two stars, tell us how high
quality will its images be?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yes, So the reason why we are putting two stars
is both of them are different frequencies and both of
them would do a sort of complementary sort of imaging
of the same subject, and they would capture the subject
in different kinds of details. Right, So like one of
them is more adept looking at the larger features. For example,
(04:48):
they can capture the tree cover very well. They won't
be able to penetrate the tree cover to see the ground, right,
but they would be able to map the tree cover
very very well. The other synthetic aperture it are the
frequency range that that operates in. You know, their signals
would be able to penetrate the tree and go and
(05:10):
see what is on the ground below the tree. And
then what happens is the image. The information that you
have is how does the larger feature look like? So
how does the forest look like? And then how does
the ground we believe the forest also look like.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And are we saying that we are not able to
take these kind of images right now? Or are we
saying that we are not able to take these kind
of images from one satellite.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, we are not able to take it from the
one satellite. So you can theoretically argue that, like, okay,
so what's the big deal. You can have two satellites,
one in this frequency range the other in the other
frequency range, and the captures the images and then no,
it's fairly should be routine to, you know, put the
data together and get the information out. The problem with
that is that those two satellites would come over at
(06:00):
one particular area at different points of time, not the
same time, right, and this time lag is important because
you know something might have changed during that time. In fact,
one of the main reasons for this putting these two
stars together on the same startlight is to observe the
changes that are happening, so you can observe the change
(06:22):
that is happening at the top of the tree, and
then also go down and see what is happening beneath
the tree. So both the things is happening at the
same time. If you're doing it with two different things
one there would be a time lag. Probably they are
not optimized to look at exactly the same place. You know,
the time lag would have a different set of challenges,
but also they are not coordinated to work together. The
(06:43):
data would be slightly different. No, it will be optimized differently,
and there are lots of challenges in you know, putting
that data together and gleaning that information. It can be done,
but it won't be qualitatively it won't be as good
as this one is supposed to do. Right, So they
are meant to work together, meant to compliment each other,
(07:04):
and meant to sort of strengthen each other's capabilities. They
are designed to work in this particular way.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And amatam what would be the typical applications of this
and also what did is THROUGH and NASA have in
mind while building this, because we understand that it also
took over a decade and a half to build.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So it was designed to do two or three things. One,
it was meant to observe climate change parameters, right, so
how are the forests changing, how are the water bodies changing?
And as I said, it is able to capture the change.
So it'll be like passing over the same site repeatedly
after a few days, and therefore it is able to
(07:44):
capture what is happening. So climate change was one of
the major things. As you mentioned, this was designed ten
to fifteen years ago. In fact, you know the original
concept for this kind of satellite that came I think
way back in two thousand and eight or something two
thousand seven, two thousand and eight time frame. And at
that point of time, climate change was becoming very big
(08:04):
and we really needed to observe the phenomena happening on
the earth very very closely, to collect as much data
as possible. So this is one of the prime objectives.
The other major objective was to look at land processes
and how things are changing, and this from the perspective
of disasters, So looking at the processes that trigger landslides,
(08:27):
for example, the processes that trigger volcanoes, the processes that
trigger earthquakes.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right, and we're talking on a day when Russia has
witnessed a eight point eight magnitude earthquake. And this is
something we've talked about in the past as well, that earthquakes,
for example, you know, you can't predict them.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You can't predict earthquakes, you can't even predict landslides for example.
But there's a lot of research happening and trying to
capture the predictors for earthquakes, for example. And so one
of the objectives for this satellite was also on those
kind of things, to collect more data to facilitate research
on earthquake early warning system for example, basically to watch
(09:09):
all the processes happening on Earth in very minute detail
minute as in, you know, capturing change over one centimeter
of areas that minute, actually that much in detail. And
then once you have that kind of very high resolution
data over one centimeter, it then goes on to facilitate
(09:29):
a whole range of activities, a whole range of research,
and also a whole range of applications. That data can
be straight away taken and used for different kind of applications.
Urban planning, for example, can be one, forestry management can
be other. A whole lef no cropping patterns, whole range
of things that can be done with that. So it's
(09:50):
going to generate a huge amount of data, more than
any other satellite has done in the past. So another
one of these special things about this satellite. It's also
perhaps the costliest satellite ever, costing more than one point
two billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Wait, how much does a satellite typically cost.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well depends on what the size of the satellite, Also
where do you want to place it, and for what purpose,
and what the kind of payloads that are there, But
certainly not in billions of dollars on the easy satellites.
Sometimes the students set a cent satellites is cube SATs
and all the small ones they would cost sometimes just
a few thousands of rupees a lot of them would cost.
(10:30):
Any meaningful satellite will obviously cost much more, but certainly
not you know, anywhere in the range of billions of dollars.
This is certainly one of the most expensive ones that way.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And amitav We've talked about how this satellite has these
two stars, right, so so talk about what were the
challenges in putting this together? Because this is the first
time this is being done, So what kind of hurdles
did these space agencies had to overcome.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
So, you know, very simply, we have sent so many
big satellites are there. We've sent so much in space,
So what's the huge big deal about sending Now putting
two stars on the same satellite. The challenge really is
that both these stars work on similar technologies and would
be sending out similar kind of signals that has to
come back without interfering with no signals interfare with each other.
(11:18):
Now that's one of the reasons why on a flight
you are asked to switch off your mobile phones, isn't it.
Or when the radars where they are placed. Most of
these are placed in locations slightly away from population so
to reduce the noise, right, and there is so much
of you know, signals, especially with the onset of mobile phones,
there's so much happening in the sky that there's a
(11:39):
lot of noise that is generated. So radars under telescopes
that study the universe, stars and everything, they tend to
be located at places which are slightly noise free. Now
you have two stars located side by side or together
in space, and there is a huge problem of one
signal interfering with the other and therefore corrupting the data
(12:02):
that you are getting. So getting them to work together
in tandem with one antenna or capturing the signals and
then complimenting each other in a synchronized fashion, that was
a huge engineering challenge and that was one of the
reasons why it has taken so many years to build
this satellite and make it work efficiently.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And amitap We mentioned earlier that this is the first
time that ISROE and NASA have collaborated on building a satellite.
Tell us what does it signal about our relationship with
the US in the space sector.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So this is also a very important part of this.
In fact, the NASA is collaboration on NASA project that
started much earlier than the recent very strategic partnership that
the two agencies have got into. But actually this is
just a sort of a starter for the kind of
things that the two agencies planned to do together in future.
(12:57):
In twenty twenty three, when Prime Minister Modi had gone
to Washington and on a state visit at that time
President Biden used to be in office. You know, their
joint statement actually talked about a strategic partnership in this
space sector. Both NASA and SRO. They signed an agreement
to coordinate much closely on space activities. One of the
(13:18):
results of that agreement is what we saw last month
in the context of Subhancha Shukla actually going on a
trip to the International Space Station. It was, of course,
on a private mission. Axiom four is a private space
company and it was a private mission and ISRO actually
you know, participated paid for to go on that trip,
(13:38):
to send Subukla on that trip, but that trip was
facilitated by NASA. And immediately after that agreement, there's something
even more significant happened, which is India signed on to
what are known as the Artemis Accords. So Artemis Accords
are a set of a sort of principles for good
behavior in space and it is a US led initiative. Actually,
(14:02):
US has done set out or listed a few things
that countries should or should not do in space for
peaceful exploitation of space for peaceful purposes. And so India
signed on to that. In this space sector, it would
be seen as sort of India joining the US camp.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Sort of right. And I mean, just from the historical perspective,
we've come a long way, because there was a time
when the US, you know, it wasn't willing to help
India when it was starting its space program exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
In fact, good that you point that out. In fact,
in the nineties, and that's a very well documented case
that one US denied technology to India, specifically on the
cryogenic engines, the cryogenic technology. India had signed a deal
with Russia for the supply of cryogenic engines and also
for technology transfer, which US blocked using international technology regime
(14:57):
called MTCR Missile Technology Control Regime. So US had blocked
that technology transfer. The India's space program actually got delayed
because of that technology denial. And the irony is that
the NASA spacecraft, the NISAAR mission, which flew today, it
flew on a GSLV rocket which had an Indian made,
(15:18):
indigenously developed tragenic engine which was powering it. So you're right,
you know, we have come a long way from there.
And the reason Artemis Accords become important is that two
of the other major space powers, so China and Russia,
they are not part of the Artemis Accords, so they
are sort of seen in a different camp. So you
(15:39):
have the four of the biggest space powers, and you
would have to count India in that. So you have US, India, China,
Russia that pays. These are not formal camps, not as
in the kind of Cold War camps that we have seen.
But you know, still India signing the Artemis Accords is
quite significant because what it signals is that in future
(16:01):
India and US would be doing a lot together in collaboration,
at least as far as the space sector is concerned.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And next we come back to Earth and turn to
a development that sits at the crossroads of conservation and
clean energy. Recently, a Supreme Court appointed committee submitted its
long awaited recommendations on how India can protect one of
its most critically endangered species, the great Indian bustard, without
derailing its renewable energy ambitions.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So, the Great Indian bustard is a large terrestrial bird
which is primarily found in dry grassland areas of the country.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
This is The Indian Express's Nikelghunnaker who reported on the
story for the newspaper.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
And historically it was distributed across the western, central and
southern parts of the India. Unfortunately, its present population is
below one forty individuals and it is largely concentrated in Rajasthan,
where about one to one thirty individuals reportedly are present
in Gujurat. There are some individuals and reports of some
(17:10):
individuals of bustards found in Marashtra, Kanataka and Ladesh. Now,
the issue with the bustard has been that over many decades,
its historical range and its population have both declined, and
this has been attributed to hunting in the past. Have
it at laws due to the expansion of intensive agriculture
in the grasslands habit at degradation development of infrastructure. Mortality
(17:32):
is due to collision with power lines and the praying
of their chicks and their eggs by other species. Now,
it's a very peculiar kind of animal where the reproduction
cycle is very slow. That is why any impact on
its population has a shot to medium to impact.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Also, and Nikol says that even though the bird has
a long lifespan about fifteen to sixteen years, it is
still susceptible to adult mortality because it breathes slowly, raising
only up to one check a year.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
And that is why its population cannot bounce back very
fast compared to some other species. It was tagged as
critically endangered in twenty eleven by the International Union of
Conservation of Nature and the IUCN. And it has also
been added to Appendix one of the Conventional Migratory Species,
which is an international framework on protection of species which
(18:26):
are declining in their numbers and which need more international
cooperation for having their population. So it has to be
revived from the brink of extinction.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And so a seven member committee was set up by
the Supreme Court in March twenty twenty four to find
a practical solution to a longstanding conflict the overlap between
India's renewable energy zones and the habitat of the critically
endangered Great Indian Bustard. So to understand what the committee
has proposed and what it could mean going forward, we
(18:57):
speak to Nikol in this segment, who begins by explain
how this issue ended up before the Supreme Court in
the first place.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
So the issue, you know, as for the Supreme Court
is concerned. This case was filed by former bureaucrat mister
mkre and Jitsingh and his petition was filed in June
twenty nineteen. It's very simple and straightforward that the giv
is the Great Busters and their habitat which is confined
to in the present day confined to the dry areas
(19:25):
in kutschean Tha District. This also overlaps with an area
and region that has used potential for development of renewable
energy and associated infrastructure. Now, what has happened is that
because this steady decline of the bird has also coincided
in a way with the boom in renewable energy in
(19:45):
the past two decades, the associated infrastructure, such as overlaid
power lines which evacuate or you know, basically take power
from the generation areas to the plants, wind farms and
solar plants to the final consumer. You need to build
over power lines and distribution network substations, et cetera. Now,
the bustard being a very peculiar kind of animal, as
(20:07):
you mentioned before, it is large, its vision has a
specific issue. It does not have the wherewithal to look
above its head exactly to prevent it from colliding with obstacles.
And that is where a lot of these collisions happen.
To make it clear to our listeners, I mean it
is not collisions of birds and power lines is not
something specific to bustards. It happens with most bird species.
(20:30):
It's not exclusive to bustards. But the issue is that
because of their large weight and also the vision issues
which are arranged laterally on their head for providing very
full vision, it has a different problem where it cannot
avoid these linear aerial infrastructures and hence they collide with them,
they die, they get injured. Now, the issue is that
(20:52):
with any other species they might not have a problem
because of the reproduction cycle. But as we mentioned earlier,
the bustard as anyway on a decline and with this
problem adding to the compounding the issue of their numbers
and adding to their mortality, reviving their population becomes a
problem because of the slow reproduction.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Cycle and nickel.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
The Top Code appointed a seven member expert committee in
March last year. So talk a bit about what led
to its formation.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So the seven member committee which was constituted by the
Supreme Court. This relates to a past order of the
Supreme Court which was written in twenty twenty one by
a bench held by Justice bothdet In twenty twenty one,
Justice Bob Day's bench had said that over eighty thousand
square kilometers of area in Rajasthan and Gujarat where the
buster finds his habitat the power lines that pass in
(21:41):
these areas need to be buried underground so that their
mortalities is prevented over the years. What happened is that
the Government of India through the Ministry of Power, Central
Licity Authority and the power companies through their associations and
because their interests lie in this region for development of
our and their projects are planned, they said that this
(22:02):
will be prohibitively costly. This will raise maintenance issues because
burying underground so many kilometers of power lines hundreds of
kilometers in some sections, not all sections will raise safety issues,
will raise maintenance issues over a period of time, etc.
So in twenty twenty four March, a bunch of former
Chiefsses of India resisted modified that twenty twenty one order
(22:25):
and it said that while the conservation of bustard is
also important, we have to keep in mind that to
offset the pollution and other issues caused by burning of
fossil fuels for generation of relativecity, we have to rely
on the potential in the Western India, specifically Raistan and
Ujarat to develop renewal energy and as a result, we
have to also take care of those interests. Now, this
(22:47):
seventh member expert Committee was formed specifically to address and
balance the issues of the bustard conservation as well as
they were given a direction to specifically recommend measures that
would keep the interest of these renewable projects in consideration.
That is what their task was. And along with that
they also had a few other mandates of suggesting measures
(23:08):
for the conservation of the bustard, how their funding will
be provided, etc.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right, and we understand that the GiB habitat was originally
classified into three zones, right, so can you tell us
what they are and also how have they been revised?
Speaker 4 (23:24):
So these habitats, I mean, these are zones that were
identified by the Supreme Court Indish Many twenty four order
for better understanding of the issue and also to give
a mandate to the authorities that these are the areas
that need to be protected. Now, let's be clear that
there are already a couple of protected areas and this
is a legal term that is used. Protected areas refer
to national parks and centuries under the Wildlife Protection Act.
(23:46):
So we already have the Desert National Park and a
sanctuary in Cutch. Now, these three zones that you asked about,
these are not in the nature of legally protected areas,
but essentially broad zonation that was done to make it
easier for unders standing of where the bustards presence lies
and where it needs to be protected, where it does
not need protection as much because of already low numbers,
(24:07):
et cetera, and areas where it has potential to grow
in the future, and that is why they were categorized
as and named as plarity area, additional important areas and
potential areas. So that is how the zonation was done.
In Rajasthan, around thirteen thou hundred square kilimeter was identified
as plarity area. In Gujarat, five hundred square kilimeter was
(24:28):
identified as plarity area and this area has been identified
on the basis of scientific studies that were carried out
by the Wildlife Institut of India Aradun and the Forest
Department of Rajasthan and Gujarat. They carried a study over
the past few years prior to the Supreme Court order
and that is how they determined the areas where the
bustards are using territories and areas where they can improve
(24:52):
in terms of their numbers.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And earlier you mentioned that the committee is mandated to
look for solutions on conservation of the great and busted.
So what has it recommended so far?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
So in the priority area that we talked about earlier,
they have said that they have suggested rather to the
Supreme Court and this is yet to be made public
because the Supreme Court's hearing is on seventh of August
when it will take up these recommendations. What this committee
suggested is that we should create power corridors. Now, what
is a power corridor, one may wonder. Essentially, what they
(25:24):
have suggested is that in this priority area, whatever power
lines are existing over at power lines in areas where
we know already that the bustards, you know, move freely,
they need to be immediately on a priority basis put underground,
or they need to be insulated, or they need to
be rerouted through this corridor. Now, this corridor essentially will
be like a stretch of four to five kilometers of
(25:48):
width in Rajasthan and in Gujarat it will be of
a width of one to two kilometers as further recommendation,
and that corridor will be used to reroute the power
lines so that it does not form criss crossing maze
of network and hamper the flight of bustards. And in
this Also, they have said that not all lines should
(26:09):
be put underground or not all lines should be rerouted.
They have given specific recommendations based on the area involved. Secondly,
they have said or suggested to the Supreme Court rather
that there should be certain conservation measures such as Rajasthan
which has a larger bustard population, they should give the
busted eggs to Gujarat so that a jumpstart method can
(26:29):
be used to A jumpstart method is basically where incubation
of already laid eggs is done in the wild and
sometimes in s two or in conservation breeding centers. Also,
another important recommendation that was made by this committee is
that they said there can be no blanket restrictions on
the existing power lines. However, outside I mean we're talking
about in the priority areas and outside the parity areas,
(26:52):
there will be no blanket restrictions at all. Blanket restrictions
although have been put on new solar parks or in
parks in these priority areas where busterds are found, and
expansion of older smaller solar plants and wind farms will
not be allowed either.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And finally, we talk about the US's reciprocal tariffs. On Wednesday,
US President Donald Trump announced that Indian goods would face
a twenty five percent tariff, along with an additional penalty
tied to India's defense and energy imports from Russia. The
announcement first appeared on Trump's truth social account and was
later repeated during a White House press interaction. Trump said
(27:36):
that India's tariffs on US products were far too high
and accused the country of having the most strenuous and
obnoxious non monetary trade barriers of any country. He also
criticized India's partnership in the Bricks Bloc, calling it an
attack on the dollar. As The Indian expresses, Sidhatu Pasni
reports the twenty five percent tariff is part of a
(27:57):
broader set of measures which were expected to kick in
ahead of first of August deadline. He also writes that,
according to most economists, these tariffs could drag India's growth
down to below six percent in the current financial year. Meanwhile,
India's Ministry of Commerce and Industry has said it is
reviewing the implications of the announcement. In a statement, the
(28:17):
ministry reaffirmed India's commitment to a fair and balanced trade deal,
while also emphasizing that it would safeguard the interests of farmers, MSMEs,
and entrepreneurs now. Trump also justified the move by pointing
to India's growing imports of Russian oil and military equipment.
Since the start of the Ukraine War in twenty twenty two,
India's crude oil imports from Russia have gone from under
(28:40):
one percent to around thirty five to forty percent of
its total crude intake, making it the second largest buyer
of Russian oil after China. White House Economic advisor Kevin
has had told reporters that Trump had grown frustrated with
the pace of talks with India and believed that announcing
tariffs would push negotiations forward. This additional penalty over Russian
(29:03):
imports marks the first time the US has openly linked
secondary tariffs to trade with Russia. You were listening to
Three Things by the Indian Express. Today's show was edited
and mixed by Seshavar and produced by Shishang Hagov and
me Ichasharma. If you like the show, do subscribe to
(29:23):
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at podcast at indian express dot com
In this episode, we talk about how a Supreme Court
appointed committee is planning to save the critically endangered Great
Indian Bustard. We also discuss US President Donald Trump's announcement
of a twenty five percent tariff on Indian goods. But
we begin today by turning to the skies and talking
about a first of its kind earth observation satellite. Hi,
(00:26):
I'm Atchasharma and you're listening to Three Things the Indian
Express New show. On Wedness Day, India's premier space agency
ISRO successfully launched an Earth observation satellite called Nissar. Now,
as many of you might know, earth observation satellites are
(00:46):
fairly common. In fact, there are hundreds of them currently
orbiting the planet. But the reason we're talking about this
particular one is because it's actually the most powerful Earth
observation satellite in space right now and was built in
collaboration with NASA. It's worth noting that this marks the
first time that NASA and ISRO have come together to
(01:08):
develop a satellite, a milestone in the growing partnership between
the two space agencies. So to know more about this
collaboration and what sets this satellite apart, my colleague Shahang
Bargav speaks to the inn and expresses a metapsinna.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Ameta tell us what makes this satellite unique? What sets
it apart from others that are in space right now?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Right So, from ISRU's perspective, it is probably the most
significant launch since chandrayan Thi, the moon landing mission. It
has launched satellites in between. Satellites, as you say, are
regularly launched not just by India but countries across the world.
That's not a big deal. But this particular satellite is
(01:52):
quite special. It's special for a lot of reasons. One,
it is a satellite that has been developed by India
and US basically ISRO and NASA through a joint development
And it's the first time that such a thing has happened,
the first time that the two space agencies have collaborated
(02:12):
on a hardware project. Half of the development has happened
in the US, half of it in India. So that
is something unique that has happened for the first time.
So that is one special part. But beyond this, the
satellite itself is very special.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, we understand that it has two stars, which stands
for synthetic aperture radars and this will allow it to
take some really high quality images. So tell our listeners
what these sars are.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yes, so sars are you know, the name has a
radar in its synthetic aperture radar. So one can imagine
the kind of radars that we are used to seeing
on ground. You know, huge dish antennas which are meant
to transmit and then collect these signals coming back from
bouncing off from objects, and then based on the analysis
(03:06):
of the incoming sort of bounced off radiation, they decipher
a lot of information about the objects that they have
bounced off from. So that's what basically a radar does.
Sars themselves are not very rare. You know, there are
lots of sars that are already in space.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Right, but this one has two of them.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yes, this has two of them. And as I said,
any radar tries to decipher information from radiation that are
bounced off from an object and gleaning that information or
analyzing that information. It can also produce images. Now we
are used to taking images from cameras which are like
optical images, but there are other ways of producing a
(03:46):
picture using non visible electromagnetic radiation. So you know, instead
of throwing light, you throw electromagnetic radiation of other wavelengths.
And they are very similar to in nature to lie,
just that they are not visible to our eyes, so
they can be used to create I majory as well.
And this is what SARS will do. As you said,
(04:08):
the unique thing about this one is that it carries
two SARS, two synthetic aperture ours, something that has never
been done before and Amata.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Because this satellite has two stars, tell us how high
quality will its images be?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yes, So the reason why we are putting two stars
is both of them are different frequencies and both of
them would do a sort of complementary sort of imaging
of the same subject, and they would capture the subject
in different kinds of details. Right, So like one of
them is more adept looking at the larger features. For example,
(04:48):
they can capture the tree cover very well. They won't
be able to penetrate the tree cover to see the ground, right,
but they would be able to map the tree cover
very very well. The other synthetic aperture it are the
frequency range that that operates in. You know, their signals
would be able to penetrate the tree and go and
(05:10):
see what is on the ground below the tree. And
then what happens is the image. The information that you
have is how does the larger feature look like? So
how does the forest look like? And then how does
the ground we believe the forest also look like.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And are we saying that we are not able to
take these kind of images right now? Or are we
saying that we are not able to take these kind
of images from one satellite.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, we are not able to take it from the
one satellite. So you can theoretically argue that, like, okay,
so what's the big deal. You can have two satellites,
one in this frequency range the other in the other
frequency range, and the captures the images and then no,
it's fairly should be routine to, you know, put the
data together and get the information out. The problem with
that is that those two satellites would come over at
(06:00):
one particular area at different points of time, not the
same time, right, and this time lag is important because
you know something might have changed during that time. In fact,
one of the main reasons for this putting these two
stars together on the same startlight is to observe the
changes that are happening, so you can observe the change
(06:22):
that is happening at the top of the tree, and
then also go down and see what is happening beneath
the tree. So both the things is happening at the
same time. If you're doing it with two different things
one there would be a time lag. Probably they are
not optimized to look at exactly the same place. You know,
the time lag would have a different set of challenges,
but also they are not coordinated to work together. The
(06:43):
data would be slightly different. No, it will be optimized differently,
and there are lots of challenges in you know, putting
that data together and gleaning that information. It can be done,
but it won't be qualitatively it won't be as good
as this one is supposed to do. Right, So they
are meant to work together, meant to compliment each other,
(07:04):
and meant to sort of strengthen each other's capabilities. They
are designed to work in this particular way.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And amatam what would be the typical applications of this
and also what did is THROUGH and NASA have in
mind while building this, because we understand that it also
took over a decade and a half to build.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So it was designed to do two or three things. One,
it was meant to observe climate change parameters, right, so
how are the forests changing, how are the water bodies changing?
And as I said, it is able to capture the change.
So it'll be like passing over the same site repeatedly
after a few days, and therefore it is able to
(07:44):
capture what is happening. So climate change was one of
the major things. As you mentioned, this was designed ten
to fifteen years ago. In fact, you know the original
concept for this kind of satellite that came I think
way back in two thousand and eight or something two
thousand seven, two thousand and eight time frame. And at
that point of time, climate change was becoming very big
(08:04):
and we really needed to observe the phenomena happening on
the earth very very closely, to collect as much data
as possible. So this is one of the prime objectives.
The other major objective was to look at land processes
and how things are changing, and this from the perspective
of disasters, So looking at the processes that trigger landslides,
(08:27):
for example, the processes that trigger volcanoes, the processes that
trigger earthquakes.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right, and we're talking on a day when Russia has
witnessed a eight point eight magnitude earthquake. And this is
something we've talked about in the past as well, that earthquakes,
for example, you know, you can't predict them.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
You can't predict earthquakes, you can't even predict landslides for example.
But there's a lot of research happening and trying to
capture the predictors for earthquakes, for example. And so one
of the objectives for this satellite was also on those
kind of things, to collect more data to facilitate research
on earthquake early warning system for example, basically to watch
(09:09):
all the processes happening on Earth in very minute detail
minute as in, you know, capturing change over one centimeter
of areas that minute, actually that much in detail. And
then once you have that kind of very high resolution
data over one centimeter, it then goes on to facilitate
(09:29):
a whole range of activities, a whole range of research,
and also a whole range of applications. That data can
be straight away taken and used for different kind of applications.
Urban planning, for example, can be one, forestry management can
be other. A whole lef no cropping patterns, whole range
of things that can be done with that. So it's
(09:50):
going to generate a huge amount of data, more than
any other satellite has done in the past. So another
one of these special things about this satellite. It's also
perhaps the costliest satellite ever, costing more than one point
two billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Wait, how much does a satellite typically cost.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Well depends on what the size of the satellite, Also
where do you want to place it, and for what purpose,
and what the kind of payloads that are there, But
certainly not in billions of dollars on the easy satellites.
Sometimes the students set a cent satellites is cube SATs
and all the small ones they would cost sometimes just
a few thousands of rupees a lot of them would cost.
(10:30):
Any meaningful satellite will obviously cost much more, but certainly
not you know, anywhere in the range of billions of dollars.
This is certainly one of the most expensive ones that way.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
And amitav We've talked about how this satellite has these
two stars, right, so so talk about what were the
challenges in putting this together? Because this is the first
time this is being done, So what kind of hurdles
did these space agencies had to overcome.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
So, you know, very simply, we have sent so many
big satellites are there. We've sent so much in space,
So what's the huge big deal about sending Now putting
two stars on the same satellite. The challenge really is
that both these stars work on similar technologies and would
be sending out similar kind of signals that has to
come back without interfering with no signals interfare with each other.
(11:18):
Now that's one of the reasons why on a flight
you are asked to switch off your mobile phones, isn't it.
Or when the radars where they are placed. Most of
these are placed in locations slightly away from population so
to reduce the noise, right, and there is so much
of you know, signals, especially with the onset of mobile phones,
there's so much happening in the sky that there's a
(11:39):
lot of noise that is generated. So radars under telescopes
that study the universe, stars and everything, they tend to
be located at places which are slightly noise free. Now
you have two stars located side by side or together
in space, and there is a huge problem of one
signal interfering with the other and therefore corrupting the data
(12:02):
that you are getting. So getting them to work together
in tandem with one antenna or capturing the signals and
then complimenting each other in a synchronized fashion, that was
a huge engineering challenge and that was one of the
reasons why it has taken so many years to build
this satellite and make it work efficiently.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And amitap We mentioned earlier that this is the first
time that ISROE and NASA have collaborated on building a satellite.
Tell us what does it signal about our relationship with
the US in the space sector.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So this is also a very important part of this.
In fact, the NASA is collaboration on NASA project that
started much earlier than the recent very strategic partnership that
the two agencies have got into. But actually this is
just a sort of a starter for the kind of
things that the two agencies planned to do together in future.
(12:57):
In twenty twenty three, when Prime Minister Modi had gone
to Washington and on a state visit at that time
President Biden used to be in office. You know, their
joint statement actually talked about a strategic partnership in this
space sector. Both NASA and SRO. They signed an agreement
to coordinate much closely on space activities. One of the
(13:18):
results of that agreement is what we saw last month
in the context of Subhancha Shukla actually going on a
trip to the International Space Station. It was, of course,
on a private mission. Axiom four is a private space
company and it was a private mission and ISRO actually
you know, participated paid for to go on that trip,
(13:38):
to send Subukla on that trip, but that trip was
facilitated by NASA. And immediately after that agreement, there's something
even more significant happened, which is India signed on to
what are known as the Artemis Accords. So Artemis Accords
are a set of a sort of principles for good
behavior in space and it is a US led initiative. Actually,
(14:02):
US has done set out or listed a few things
that countries should or should not do in space for
peaceful exploitation of space for peaceful purposes. And so India
signed on to that. In this space sector, it would
be seen as sort of India joining the US camp.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Sort of right. And I mean, just from the historical perspective,
we've come a long way, because there was a time
when the US, you know, it wasn't willing to help
India when it was starting its space program exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
In fact, good that you point that out. In fact,
in the nineties, and that's a very well documented case
that one US denied technology to India, specifically on the
cryogenic engines, the cryogenic technology. India had signed a deal
with Russia for the supply of cryogenic engines and also
for technology transfer, which US blocked using international technology regime
(14:57):
called MTCR Missile Technology Control Regime. So US had blocked
that technology transfer. The India's space program actually got delayed
because of that technology denial. And the irony is that
the NASA spacecraft, the NISAAR mission, which flew today, it
flew on a GSLV rocket which had an Indian made,
(15:18):
indigenously developed tragenic engine which was powering it. So you're right,
you know, we have come a long way from there.
And the reason Artemis Accords become important is that two
of the other major space powers, so China and Russia,
they are not part of the Artemis Accords, so they
are sort of seen in a different camp. So you
(15:39):
have the four of the biggest space powers, and you
would have to count India in that. So you have US, India, China,
Russia that pays. These are not formal camps, not as
in the kind of Cold War camps that we have seen.
But you know, still India signing the Artemis Accords is
quite significant because what it signals is that in future
(16:01):
India and US would be doing a lot together in collaboration,
at least as far as the space sector is concerned.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And next we come back to Earth and turn to
a development that sits at the crossroads of conservation and
clean energy. Recently, a Supreme Court appointed committee submitted its
long awaited recommendations on how India can protect one of
its most critically endangered species, the great Indian bustard, without
derailing its renewable energy ambitions.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So, the Great Indian bustard is a large terrestrial bird
which is primarily found in dry grassland areas of the country.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
This is The Indian Express's Nikelghunnaker who reported on the
story for the newspaper.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
And historically it was distributed across the western, central and
southern parts of the India. Unfortunately, its present population is
below one forty individuals and it is largely concentrated in Rajasthan,
where about one to one thirty individuals reportedly are present
in Gujurat. There are some individuals and reports of some
(17:10):
individuals of bustards found in Marashtra, Kanataka and Ladesh. Now,
the issue with the bustard has been that over many decades,
its historical range and its population have both declined, and
this has been attributed to hunting in the past. Have
it at laws due to the expansion of intensive agriculture
in the grasslands habit at degradation development of infrastructure. Mortality
(17:32):
is due to collision with power lines and the praying
of their chicks and their eggs by other species. Now,
it's a very peculiar kind of animal where the reproduction
cycle is very slow. That is why any impact on
its population has a shot to medium to impact.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Also, and Nikol says that even though the bird has
a long lifespan about fifteen to sixteen years, it is
still susceptible to adult mortality because it breathes slowly, raising
only up to one check a year.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
And that is why its population cannot bounce back very
fast compared to some other species. It was tagged as
critically endangered in twenty eleven by the International Union of
Conservation of Nature and the IUCN. And it has also
been added to Appendix one of the Conventional Migratory Species,
which is an international framework on protection of species which
(18:26):
are declining in their numbers and which need more international
cooperation for having their population. So it has to be
revived from the brink of extinction.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And so a seven member committee was set up by
the Supreme Court in March twenty twenty four to find
a practical solution to a longstanding conflict the overlap between
India's renewable energy zones and the habitat of the critically
endangered Great Indian Bustard. So to understand what the committee
has proposed and what it could mean going forward, we
(18:57):
speak to Nikol in this segment, who begins by explain
how this issue ended up before the Supreme Court in
the first place.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
So the issue, you know, as for the Supreme Court
is concerned. This case was filed by former bureaucrat mister
mkre and Jitsingh and his petition was filed in June
twenty nineteen. It's very simple and straightforward that the giv
is the Great Busters and their habitat which is confined
to in the present day confined to the dry areas
(19:25):
in kutschean Tha District. This also overlaps with an area
and region that has used potential for development of renewable
energy and associated infrastructure. Now, what has happened is that
because this steady decline of the bird has also coincided
in a way with the boom in renewable energy in
(19:45):
the past two decades, the associated infrastructure, such as overlaid
power lines which evacuate or you know, basically take power
from the generation areas to the plants, wind farms and
solar plants to the final consumer. You need to build
over power lines and distribution network substations, et cetera. Now,
the bustard being a very peculiar kind of animal, as
(20:07):
you mentioned before, it is large, its vision has a
specific issue. It does not have the wherewithal to look
above its head exactly to prevent it from colliding with obstacles.
And that is where a lot of these collisions happen.
To make it clear to our listeners, I mean it
is not collisions of birds and power lines is not
something specific to bustards. It happens with most bird species.
(20:30):
It's not exclusive to bustards. But the issue is that
because of their large weight and also the vision issues
which are arranged laterally on their head for providing very
full vision, it has a different problem where it cannot
avoid these linear aerial infrastructures and hence they collide with them,
they die, they get injured. Now, the issue is that
(20:52):
with any other species they might not have a problem
because of the reproduction cycle. But as we mentioned earlier,
the bustard as anyway on a decline and with this
problem adding to the compounding the issue of their numbers
and adding to their mortality, reviving their population becomes a
problem because of the slow reproduction.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Cycle and nickel.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
The Top Code appointed a seven member expert committee in
March last year. So talk a bit about what led
to its formation.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So the seven member committee which was constituted by the
Supreme Court. This relates to a past order of the
Supreme Court which was written in twenty twenty one by
a bench held by Justice bothdet In twenty twenty one,
Justice Bob Day's bench had said that over eighty thousand
square kilometers of area in Rajasthan and Gujarat where the
buster finds his habitat the power lines that pass in
(21:41):
these areas need to be buried underground so that their
mortalities is prevented over the years. What happened is that
the Government of India through the Ministry of Power, Central
Licity Authority and the power companies through their associations and
because their interests lie in this region for development of
our and their projects are planned, they said that this
(22:02):
will be prohibitively costly. This will raise maintenance issues because
burying underground so many kilometers of power lines hundreds of
kilometers in some sections, not all sections will raise safety issues,
will raise maintenance issues over a period of time, etc.
So in twenty twenty four March, a bunch of former
Chiefsses of India resisted modified that twenty twenty one order
(22:25):
and it said that while the conservation of bustard is
also important, we have to keep in mind that to
offset the pollution and other issues caused by burning of
fossil fuels for generation of relativecity, we have to rely
on the potential in the Western India, specifically Raistan and
Ujarat to develop renewal energy and as a result, we
have to also take care of those interests. Now, this
(22:47):
seventh member expert Committee was formed specifically to address and
balance the issues of the bustard conservation as well as
they were given a direction to specifically recommend measures that
would keep the interest of these renewable projects in consideration.
That is what their task was. And along with that
they also had a few other mandates of suggesting measures
(23:08):
for the conservation of the bustard, how their funding will
be provided, etc.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right, and we understand that the GiB habitat was originally
classified into three zones, right, so can you tell us
what they are and also how have they been revised?
Speaker 4 (23:24):
So these habitats, I mean, these are zones that were
identified by the Supreme Court Indish Many twenty four order
for better understanding of the issue and also to give
a mandate to the authorities that these are the areas
that need to be protected. Now, let's be clear that
there are already a couple of protected areas and this
is a legal term that is used. Protected areas refer
to national parks and centuries under the Wildlife Protection Act.
(23:46):
So we already have the Desert National Park and a
sanctuary in Cutch. Now, these three zones that you asked about,
these are not in the nature of legally protected areas,
but essentially broad zonation that was done to make it
easier for unders standing of where the bustards presence lies
and where it needs to be protected, where it does
not need protection as much because of already low numbers,
(24:07):
et cetera, and areas where it has potential to grow
in the future, and that is why they were categorized
as and named as plarity area, additional important areas and
potential areas. So that is how the zonation was done.
In Rajasthan, around thirteen thou hundred square kilimeter was identified
as plarity area. In Gujarat, five hundred square kilimeter was
(24:28):
identified as plarity area and this area has been identified
on the basis of scientific studies that were carried out
by the Wildlife Institut of India Aradun and the Forest
Department of Rajasthan and Gujarat. They carried a study over
the past few years prior to the Supreme Court order
and that is how they determined the areas where the
bustards are using territories and areas where they can improve
(24:52):
in terms of their numbers.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And earlier you mentioned that the committee is mandated to
look for solutions on conservation of the great and busted.
So what has it recommended so far?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
So in the priority area that we talked about earlier,
they have said that they have suggested rather to the
Supreme Court and this is yet to be made public
because the Supreme Court's hearing is on seventh of August
when it will take up these recommendations. What this committee
suggested is that we should create power corridors. Now, what
is a power corridor, one may wonder. Essentially, what they
(25:24):
have suggested is that in this priority area, whatever power
lines are existing over at power lines in areas where
we know already that the bustards, you know, move freely,
they need to be immediately on a priority basis put underground,
or they need to be insulated, or they need to
be rerouted through this corridor. Now, this corridor essentially will
be like a stretch of four to five kilometers of
(25:48):
width in Rajasthan and in Gujarat it will be of
a width of one to two kilometers as further recommendation,
and that corridor will be used to reroute the power
lines so that it does not form criss crossing maze
of network and hamper the flight of bustards. And in
this Also, they have said that not all lines should
(26:09):
be put underground or not all lines should be rerouted.
They have given specific recommendations based on the area involved. Secondly,
they have said or suggested to the Supreme Court rather
that there should be certain conservation measures such as Rajasthan
which has a larger bustard population, they should give the
busted eggs to Gujarat so that a jumpstart method can
(26:29):
be used to A jumpstart method is basically where incubation
of already laid eggs is done in the wild and
sometimes in s two or in conservation breeding centers. Also,
another important recommendation that was made by this committee is
that they said there can be no blanket restrictions on
the existing power lines. However, outside I mean we're talking
about in the priority areas and outside the parity areas,
(26:52):
there will be no blanket restrictions at all. Blanket restrictions
although have been put on new solar parks or in
parks in these priority areas where busterds are found, and
expansion of older smaller solar plants and wind farms will
not be allowed either.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And finally, we talk about the US's reciprocal tariffs. On Wednesday,
US President Donald Trump announced that Indian goods would face
a twenty five percent tariff, along with an additional penalty
tied to India's defense and energy imports from Russia. The
announcement first appeared on Trump's truth social account and was
later repeated during a White House press interaction. Trump said
(27:36):
that India's tariffs on US products were far too high
and accused the country of having the most strenuous and
obnoxious non monetary trade barriers of any country. He also
criticized India's partnership in the Bricks Bloc, calling it an
attack on the dollar. As The Indian expresses, Sidhatu Pasni
reports the twenty five percent tariff is part of a
(27:57):
broader set of measures which were expected to kick in
ahead of first of August deadline. He also writes that,
according to most economists, these tariffs could drag India's growth
down to below six percent in the current financial year. Meanwhile,
India's Ministry of Commerce and Industry has said it is
reviewing the implications of the announcement. In a statement, the
(28:17):
ministry reaffirmed India's commitment to a fair and balanced trade deal,
while also emphasizing that it would safeguard the interests of farmers, MSMEs,
and entrepreneurs now. Trump also justified the move by pointing
to India's growing imports of Russian oil and military equipment.
Since the start of the Ukraine War in twenty twenty two,
India's crude oil imports from Russia have gone from under
(28:40):
one percent to around thirty five to forty percent of
its total crude intake, making it the second largest buyer
of Russian oil after China. White House Economic advisor Kevin
has had told reporters that Trump had grown frustrated with
the pace of talks with India and believed that announcing
tariffs would push negotiations forward. This additional penalty over Russian
(29:03):
imports marks the first time the US has openly linked
secondary tariffs to trade with Russia. You were listening to
Three Things by the Indian Express. Today's show was edited
and mixed by Seshavar and produced by Shishang Hagov and
me Ichasharma. If you like the show, do subscribe to
(29:23):
us wherever you get your podcast. You can also recommend
it to someone you think may like it, with a
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