April 16, 2025 • 27 mins
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
(00:21):
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, on to the show.
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(01:04):
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Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm your host, Alison Puryear, and I'm here
with my good friend, Maureen Warbach.
She is one of my business besties and
brilliant, absolutely brilliant about group practice.
And she is who I learned everything about
(03:13):
group practice from.
So we're going to talk some about starting
a group practice.
We're also going to talk about starting a
group practice in the context of this special
time.
We'll call it a special time because our
solo people are feeling it too.
Yeah.
But we'll just, we'll go from there.
So thanks for being here.
(03:34):
Yep.
I'm happy to be here again.
It's been a while, I feel like.
Yeah.
A really long time.
Yeah.
I'm glad that we have our text messages
to hold me over.
I know.
Yeah.
As you said, it is a very special
time as therapists, business owners.
Yeah.
So do you want to kind of set
the stage for what's different now from a
(03:55):
few years ago?
Sure.
I think this translates across solo practices and
group practices seeing this shift.
I know you've been around as a provider
for over a decade, just like me, as
a business owner provider.
And I feel like so much has changed.
It feels so interesting to see how different
(04:16):
it feels to run a business now than
it did even five years ago.
Of course, one of the major things I
think was COVID.
It opened a lot of doors and opportunities
for people.
Because pre COVID, it was very, very difficult
to start a solo or group practice without
(04:38):
having a physical brick and mortar location.
I know, of course, there's outliers, there were
telehealth providers back in the day, but very
few and far between.
And I think COVID opened the doors to
another method for providing therapy that became more
just well known telehealth.
And in that it also created the space
(04:59):
to be able to have more flexibility to
provide services from home.
But it also then provided easier opportunities for
people to start their own businesses, which I
think is great, with essentially no need to
have any money to do it, you know,
really could just see your clients from your
laptop in your bedroom.
(05:21):
And so I think we've seen since COVID
a big shift as group practice owners, more
difficulty in finding therapists who want to work
in a group practice versus just, you know,
going for it right from, you know, right
when they get out of grad school and
trying it on their own.
There's been a shift in, I don't know,
(05:43):
I'm assuming this was similar for you back
in the day, but like our parents generation,
I think they had a job and they
sort of had that same job for their
whole life.
And so yeah, and so they sort of
ingrained in our generation, because we're in our
40s, your your resume needs to show that
you are working for at least a good
(06:04):
period of time.
Like, I don't think we were taught that
we had to stay at one place forever.
But we were taught we should stay somewhere
for years.
And it needs to be very intentional and
purposeful.
And like, even if you don't love it,
you stay.
And now another, I think, great thing, but
has impacts is that that's completely gone.
There isn't this expectation.
(06:24):
So there's a lot of people coming and
going much more quickly, which just makes business
a little bit more difficult for group practice
owners.
And then the impact that that has is
that we're seeing solo and group practices having
a much harder time in the past year
or so with getting referrals, because this visibility
that was easier among the solos and groups
(06:47):
that were around is now it was much
lower, you know, there's there were more group
practices that people worked in, and fewer kind
of solo practices.
And now there's, if I had to figure
out the math to it, I'm sure our
numbers have shifted to a point where group
practices are almost the minority, and there are
(07:07):
just five times the amount of solo providers
than there were five years ago, pre COVID,
which just makes it more difficult for each
individual solo provider and group to be seen
in their community and online.
Yeah.
And we also have big tech in there,
which we're not going to name any names,
because they love to sue people.
(07:27):
You can't even say anything about not liking
them without them sending you a letter.
So we're not going to name any.
But when we say like big mental health
tech, yeah, think about the podcast you listen
to and the ads that come on.
They have to do with therapy.
And so you also have a lot of
providers who even if they're not in a
solo practice on their own, maybe are with
(07:49):
these companies that aren't our favorite.
No, I don't find them to be ethical
in the way they treat patient data in
the way they treat their therapists in the
way that they frame their business, which is
a tech company and not a mental health
company.
Right.
So we also have a lot of care
being provided through those because these big tech
(08:11):
companies have a lot of money that are
going to take up, you know, a lot
of space on the internet when people are
searching.
Those of you who are listening, do not
panic.
Like this is not a panic point.
We're just laying a foundation for how things
are different now than they were a year
ago.
(08:31):
We do know more people are seeking mental
health services now than they ever have, like
way more than during COVID and right after
COVID.
I don't know if after COVID exists, but
you know what I mean.
So there are a lot of people, a
lot of people seeking therapy.
And the problem as we're defining it is
visibility.
Yeah.
So what to you, well, let's talk about
(08:55):
starting a group practice.
Let's do this first.
Okay.
If somebody wants to start a group practice,
they want to be a great boss.
That's always not, they just want to make
money, but they want to be a great
boss.
They want to create great opportunities for other
therapists and they want to help their community
in a specific way.
These are people who are going to be
great group practice owners, and they want to
(09:18):
make money too, because this is a business.
Yeah.
What do they need to think about in
their startup?
Maybe this person is full or close to
full.
They have referrals coming in.
They really feel like they could support at
least one other clinician at first.
What do they need to think about now?
I would say beyond what you've said is
that they want to lead.
(09:38):
I feel like that's a big thing that
gets overlooked because a lot of people will
start a group practice.
And this was me included 13 years ago
when I started my group of being like,
I'm going to be more hands off and
like, you know, find great therapists and just
like, let them do their own thing.
And I think for a lot of people,
that's a mask for a fear of leading
(09:59):
and feeling like you can somehow have a
business and a group of people where you
don't have to like lead and give evaluations
and potentially fire like that you can have
this like very, you know, cool laid back
vibe where everyone is just doing their work
without having to be asked and you won't
have to lead.
And that just isn't the case.
So I would say, because it's one of
(10:21):
the biggest stress points for burnout for group
practice owners is just like staff management.
And, you know, you'll never be able to
make everyone happy.
And so you have to be able to
emotionally regulate and be okay with making decisions
that not don't necessarily make every single person
happy, but will make ensure the health of
the business as a whole and everyone in
(10:43):
the business as a whole.
And so if leading people and having difficult
conversations, and leading those difficult conversations is something
you don't want to do, I would be
thinking about if owning a business that employs
people is something that you want to do.
Right.
It's really like just not being responsible for
the business.
(11:03):
Yeah.
To not lead.
Right.
This laid back, it's kind of like being
the cool girl.
Like it doesn't exist.
Yeah, no.
The laid back boss, who like lets everybody
do their thing doesn't really exist as a
boss.
It's part of why I stay busy.
It's part of why so many people come
to me to start their own practice because
they either have a micromanaging group practice owner
(11:25):
or one who is like, so laissez-faire,
they don't know the boundaries, and then they
get in trouble for things because the boundaries
were never set properly.
Right.
No sort of communication about expectations.
Yep.
And so if leading, like really leading also
feels like something you're wanting to do, then
(11:47):
I guess the next thing to consider is
what the current pain points are for business
businesses like ours, so that you can, you
know, kind of jump into leading and owning
a practice with the awareness of what things
you are going to have to be focusing
on, like more than others.
So like, 13 years ago, when I started
(12:09):
my practice, marketing wasn't something I actually had
to focus on much.
It was more like figuring out how, how
to actually lead.
That felt like a bigger issue, or thing
to tackle than marketing, because like, 13 years
ago, everyone had waitlists, just long waitlists.
And so filling them up wasn't something that
(12:30):
I had to even focus on learning how
to do.
Whereas now, like you're seeing so many solo
and group practice owners who didn't have to
do this, scrambling to be like, what marketing
methods are going to work now in this
environment?
Because the marketing methods of five years ago,
don't necessarily work now, you know, right?
As our environment shifts, so does how things
(12:53):
work shift.
And so my assumption based off of everyone
that I talked to, and my own experience
as a practice owner, too, is that marketing
and recruiting are two of the more difficult
things right now, when it comes to having
a group practice.
And so just ensuring that you have the
(13:15):
time and focus to be able to invest
time, I guess, into those two areas, because
it takes some work and trial and error
to see what's going to work for your
particular business in terms of getting visibility in
your area, when visibility is just so low.
Yeah.
And this is something we've been talking about
(13:37):
at Abundance for probably about a year.
It doesn't mean you're not going to be
successful.
It just means you have to be a
lot more intentional with your marketing in order
to be successful.
And it might take a little bit longer
for you to reach your goals than it
did before.
We had people in our like high touch
programs who were getting full in three months
previously, and now it's taking about six months.
(14:00):
And those are our programs with like a
lot of mentorship and a lot of handholding.
So you have to be really clear about
what your marketing strategies are, and you have
to actually do them and not just think
about them, or do them next week.
And do them consistently.
I see that too, is like when people
get into a space of anxiety, or like,
(14:22):
they're freaking out, because all of a sudden,
they throw like 100 things against the wall.
And what I see in that is like,
it's nearly impossible to know what works when
you throw 100 things at the wall.
But two, if they are feeling like something's
not working, they stop doing it right away
and move to the next thing when business
ownership is a lot like a big ship.
(14:45):
Anything you do does, whether you're small or
really large, takes a little bit of time
for you to see the, I don't know,
the success in something.
And so just because you start, you know,
do a week of a ton of social
media and doing videos doesn't mean that it's
going to translate to you getting any new
clients from it next week.
A lot of these things take time.
(15:07):
And so I always say, especially in these
cases with marketing efforts is, I suggest doing
one thing at a time, all in for
around six months.
So you can actually see if that thing
is working.
And throughout those six months, if you see
traction happening, what, like looking deeper into what's
making it work, doing more of that, looking
(15:27):
at parts of that, that maybe are helpful,
removing those things, so you're not wasting efforts,
and like really just focusing on that one
thing before you start to shift to another
sort of marketing method.
Absolutely.
We go into fix it mode, right?
Like, so I totally understand the impulse to
do everything.
And then there are lots of shiny objects
out there.
(15:49):
And the people marketing them are good at
marketing them, you know, so it's easy to
feel like something's a magic bullet, but nothing
is a magic bullet, not a single thing
is going to be a magic bullet that
works for everybody.
Yep.
Unfortunately, I would really love a magic bullet
sometimes when you I would too.
I feel like whenever people will sometimes assume
(16:10):
that because I've had a group practice for
so long that I don't struggle with any
of the things that people who are newly
starting a group practice are struggling with.
And that's not necessarily the case.
My practice in Chicago also has less referrals
than it did last year, just like 99
% of the others.
It's just a matter of, you know, me
(16:31):
being aware of it and engaging in some
act to to change it versus like sort
of sitting back and feeling despair.
And I don't know, closing your ears and
your eyes and being like, it'll change on
its own.
Yeah.
And that's one of the things like people
will come to me and be like, I
saw in this free Facebook group I'm in
about how everybody's slow.
(16:54):
And even these people who've been established forever
are slow.
And I'm like, yeah, and they're posting about
it in Facebook group instead of doing something
about it.
So if you don't want to be like
them, then get out of those groups because
they don't help.
And most of the information is not great
anyway.
Yeah.
And do the things that have worked for
you in the past and see if those
work first.
And most of the time they will if
(17:15):
it was like a really well thought out
strategy.
Yeah.
And then add something else if you need
to.
Now, I'm curious, are you seeing a difference
at all?
Is there and it might just be a
slight difference or not at all between group
practices that are niched and group practices that
are more generalized in terms of referrals?
(17:36):
Or is it easier for one group over
the other right now?
That's a good question.
I mean, if we assume that both of
these practices are well established, and it's not
because they're new that, you know, because then
they'll struggle for the same reason, initially, if
they're both established, I don't think there's necessarily
that big a difference, even though I do
(17:58):
talk a lot about as a way of
forecasting and like, being able to weather the
future storms that a niche practice is a
great thing to have.
I guess my question would be, if it's
a multidisciplinary practice that can support the whole
person, those are like, it's not necessarily two
(18:20):
sides of the same coin.
But those two things are, are two types
of group practices that have the easiest time
when it comes to marketing and recruiting.
If you're a group practice that's not intentionally
multi specialty treating the whole person, but just
kind of like a hodgepodge of just hiring
random people.
I think those are those are the practices
(18:42):
that struggle the most.
But if you're very niched, one, you have
an easier time knowing who your ideal audience
is, which a multi specialty practice doesn't because
they pretty much serve everyone, right, which is
more difficult in terms of marketing.
But what the multi specialty practice has is
the ability to work with more businesses in
(19:04):
order to get new referrals, because they have,
if they're a larger practice that can like
sort of treat the whole person, they have
just more flexibility and being able to see
more types of clients.
Like I said, the issue comes to those
practices that say they're multi specialty when in
reality, they're they're more random, right?
They're just hiring anyone who comes in, and
(19:26):
they don't have like an intentional sort of
process for who they're treating as a whole.
My practice is multi specialty, we have site
testing, med management, therapists that treat different parts
of the lifespan, so that when a family
member comes in, our practice can pretty much
treat anyone in that family, each therapist has
a specialty.
And that makes it easier to market as
(19:47):
well, a little more difficult than a very
niched practice, because there you only have to
focus on one issue.
You know, but I find that those two
options, like an intentional whole person, multi specialty
practice, or a very niched one are the
two types of practices, group practices that'll weather
kind of the storms that we're kind of
(20:08):
seeing right now.
I ask because when I think about just
marketing in general, niched is so much easier,
like it just gives you Yep, it gives
you your copy, right gives you everything.
Yep.
So that was my suspicion.
Yeah, so when we market in my practice,
it's like, we have to gear our marketing
in a lot of different directions to reach
(20:30):
the couples therapist that we have to reach
the child therapist we have.
But we, as long as you're intentional about
like having a sort of through line or
process for each one, then it's the same
as having, I guess, like, multiple niches.
Yeah, a little bit more effort.
And like, how do you highlight each one
of those things individually without watering down the
(20:52):
other ones?
Right.
And that relies on your individual therapists each
having a niche.
Yes, yes.
Because otherwise, it'd just be chaos.
Yeah, 100%.
And that's the difference between like an unintentional
practice that says they're multi specialty when everyone
just doesn't, like every therapist just sees whoever
and they don't have their own specialization and
niche themselves.
(21:13):
Then yeah, that's the practice that'll have the
most difficulty standing out.
So hodgepodge practices are out for 2025.
Yeah, they've been out for a while.
But yeah, for sure for 2025, especially as
like referrals are just a little bit more
difficult.
Getting niched, whether as a whole practice or
making sure that each of your individual therapists
(21:33):
is very clear on their bios and all
that in terms of who they see is
going to be what makes it easier.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And what I've always found, so this doesn't
necessarily, this hasn't necessarily changed in the over
a decade that I've had a group is
that I find, and of course, there's outliers
to everything.
(21:54):
I always feel like any anytime I give
suggestions, I'm like, of course, there's outlying situations
where what I say, like, people are successful
outside of that.
But I find that the way to grow
your referrals is through relationship building and less
through like trying to get every single person
to know you exist.
(22:14):
So in my group practice, each location that
I have, we focus on three relationships that
in the community, whether it's a school or
a hospital or another business, healthcare related business,
we focus on three relationships that we nurture
indefinitely.
Of course, the byproduct is we become known
through with other people.
(22:35):
But we look for three types of businesses
or places or local businesses that support our
ideal clients in that location.
And we nurture those three relationships.
One, it makes it much more manageable than
like, feeling like you have to spend every
day like outreaching to like every business all
around you.
And having coffee with every other practice owner
(22:56):
around you or, you know, chiropractor and dieticians
are but like three, I always say three
good relationships.
And you can look at your existing clients
and say, like, where are they going?
Where are their doctors?
Like, what are they doing?
Do all your clients go to this local
yoga studio?
Okay, maybe that's like one of the places,
but to then, you know, reach out to
(23:18):
those three, and then spend your time throughout
the years nurturing those three relationships.
Literally, it's so simple, a lot less stressful.
But if you focus on that, you're going
to have that reciprocal relationship.
And I always say start with a networking
perspective more than a marketing one in that
you want to ask about them.
Like everyone wants to talk about their business.
(23:39):
If you should go up to them and
are like, wanting to talk only about your
business, it tends to have, I think, a
little less success than being like, I have
a lot of clients that come to your
yoga studio or that come to see you
for chiropractic work.
Or I wanted to get to know like,
what kind of stuff do you guys do
so that when we get new clients, if
that's a need, I can refer them to
you, you're more likely to get interest from
(24:00):
that person who is like, oh, she knows
about me.
She knows about my business.
My ideal clients as a chiropractor seem to
be going to her practice.
Now we can start this relationship.
Yeah, you know, we have this in common.
I've always preached like networking is the thing
that built my practice.
And I tell people like five marketing strategies,
one of which is a website, one of
(24:20):
which is networking, like those two are set
in stone.
And I understand it when people don't understand
what networking is, but there is some resistance
to networking.
So I love that they're getting this reinforced
that it can also fill an entire group
practice.
How many clinicians do you have working for
you at this point?
Like 50.
So like it can fill a group practice
(24:43):
when you are focused on really just forming
a relationship.
That's all you're doing.
You are not selling yourself.
You are not being salesy.
And I'm an introvert.
You know me.
I am.
You and I are opposites in these ways.
I don't like talking to people.
I don't like meeting new people.
And so that was one of the things
that I struggled with most was having to
(25:04):
get in front of people.
And like I said, 13 years ago, when
I started my group, marketing wasn't as big
of an issue because referrals were so high.
So I lucked out as a person who
doesn't like to meet new people.
I lucked out for a long time.
But that's the one thing I love about
networking over marketing.
I don't love either.
So at the end of the day, for
those that don't like it, you cannot like
(25:25):
it and still do it.
What I find is that marketing feels too
salesy for me.
I can hire people that can do it
for me.
But I prefer to create relationships, which marketing
doesn't do.
Networking does.
And networking is less about trying to sell
yourself.
It's more about getting a relationship with someone
where you both mutually are helping a certain
(25:47):
population in your neighborhood.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Thank you, Maureen.
And you're going to be doing a training
in the Abundance Party.
So for those who are in there, make
sure you don't miss it.
For those who are not yet in the
Abundance Party, hop in.
You also all need to go to the
grouppracticeexchange.com.
This is where she teaches you how to
build a group practice.
So if you were considering a group practice,
you need to join that membership.
(26:08):
It's affordable.
You can do it.
So thank you.
And I'm looking forward to that training.
Yeah.
Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant
with Powebox.
Use code ABUNDANT to get Powebox for less
than a hundred dollars your first year at
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(26:28):
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
TherapyNotes is the way to go.
Go to TherapyNotes.com and use the promo
code ABUNDANT for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow, rate, and
(26:49):
review, but I really want you to share
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
(00:21):
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, on to the show.
Some of y'all aren't sending HIPAA-compliant
email, and it's a problem.
Even if you're paying for a business Google
(00:43):
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Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm your host, Alison Puryear, and I'm here
with my good friend, Maureen Warbach.
She is one of my business besties and
brilliant, absolutely brilliant about group practice.
And she is who I learned everything about
(03:13):
group practice from.
So we're going to talk some about starting
a group practice.
We're also going to talk about starting a
group practice in the context of this special
time.
We'll call it a special time because our
solo people are feeling it too.
Yeah.
But we'll just, we'll go from there.
So thanks for being here.
(03:34):
Yep.
I'm happy to be here again.
It's been a while, I feel like.
Yeah.
A really long time.
Yeah.
I'm glad that we have our text messages
to hold me over.
I know.
Yeah.
As you said, it is a very special
time as therapists, business owners.
Yeah.
So do you want to kind of set
the stage for what's different now from a
(03:55):
few years ago?
Sure.
I think this translates across solo practices and
group practices seeing this shift.
I know you've been around as a provider
for over a decade, just like me, as
a business owner provider.
And I feel like so much has changed.
It feels so interesting to see how different
(04:16):
it feels to run a business now than
it did even five years ago.
Of course, one of the major things I
think was COVID.
It opened a lot of doors and opportunities
for people.
Because pre COVID, it was very, very difficult
to start a solo or group practice without
(04:38):
having a physical brick and mortar location.
I know, of course, there's outliers, there were
telehealth providers back in the day, but very
few and far between.
And I think COVID opened the doors to
another method for providing therapy that became more
just well known telehealth.
And in that it also created the space
(04:59):
to be able to have more flexibility to
provide services from home.
But it also then provided easier opportunities for
people to start their own businesses, which I
think is great, with essentially no need to
have any money to do it, you know,
really could just see your clients from your
laptop in your bedroom.
(05:21):
And so I think we've seen since COVID
a big shift as group practice owners, more
difficulty in finding therapists who want to work
in a group practice versus just, you know,
going for it right from, you know, right
when they get out of grad school and
trying it on their own.
There's been a shift in, I don't know,
(05:43):
I'm assuming this was similar for you back
in the day, but like our parents generation,
I think they had a job and they
sort of had that same job for their
whole life.
And so yeah, and so they sort of
ingrained in our generation, because we're in our
40s, your your resume needs to show that
you are working for at least a good
(06:04):
period of time.
Like, I don't think we were taught that
we had to stay at one place forever.
But we were taught we should stay somewhere
for years.
And it needs to be very intentional and
purposeful.
And like, even if you don't love it,
you stay.
And now another, I think, great thing, but
has impacts is that that's completely gone.
There isn't this expectation.
(06:24):
So there's a lot of people coming and
going much more quickly, which just makes business
a little bit more difficult for group practice
owners.
And then the impact that that has is
that we're seeing solo and group practices having
a much harder time in the past year
or so with getting referrals, because this visibility
that was easier among the solos and groups
(06:47):
that were around is now it was much
lower, you know, there's there were more group
practices that people worked in, and fewer kind
of solo practices.
And now there's, if I had to figure
out the math to it, I'm sure our
numbers have shifted to a point where group
practices are almost the minority, and there are
(07:07):
just five times the amount of solo providers
than there were five years ago, pre COVID,
which just makes it more difficult for each
individual solo provider and group to be seen
in their community and online.
Yeah.
And we also have big tech in there,
which we're not going to name any names,
because they love to sue people.
(07:27):
You can't even say anything about not liking
them without them sending you a letter.
So we're not going to name any.
But when we say like big mental health
tech, yeah, think about the podcast you listen
to and the ads that come on.
They have to do with therapy.
And so you also have a lot of
providers who even if they're not in a
solo practice on their own, maybe are with
(07:49):
these companies that aren't our favorite.
No, I don't find them to be ethical
in the way they treat patient data in
the way they treat their therapists in the
way that they frame their business, which is
a tech company and not a mental health
company.
Right.
So we also have a lot of care
being provided through those because these big tech
(08:11):
companies have a lot of money that are
going to take up, you know, a lot
of space on the internet when people are
searching.
Those of you who are listening, do not
panic.
Like this is not a panic point.
We're just laying a foundation for how things
are different now than they were a year
ago.
(08:31):
We do know more people are seeking mental
health services now than they ever have, like
way more than during COVID and right after
COVID.
I don't know if after COVID exists, but
you know what I mean.
So there are a lot of people, a
lot of people seeking therapy.
And the problem as we're defining it is
visibility.
Yeah.
So what to you, well, let's talk about
(08:55):
starting a group practice.
Let's do this first.
Okay.
If somebody wants to start a group practice,
they want to be a great boss.
That's always not, they just want to make
money, but they want to be a great
boss.
They want to create great opportunities for other
therapists and they want to help their community
in a specific way.
These are people who are going to be
great group practice owners, and they want to
(09:18):
make money too, because this is a business.
Yeah.
What do they need to think about in
their startup?
Maybe this person is full or close to
full.
They have referrals coming in.
They really feel like they could support at
least one other clinician at first.
What do they need to think about now?
I would say beyond what you've said is
that they want to lead.
(09:38):
I feel like that's a big thing that
gets overlooked because a lot of people will
start a group practice.
And this was me included 13 years ago
when I started my group of being like,
I'm going to be more hands off and
like, you know, find great therapists and just
like, let them do their own thing.
And I think for a lot of people,
that's a mask for a fear of leading
(09:59):
and feeling like you can somehow have a
business and a group of people where you
don't have to like lead and give evaluations
and potentially fire like that you can have
this like very, you know, cool laid back
vibe where everyone is just doing their work
without having to be asked and you won't
have to lead.
And that just isn't the case.
So I would say, because it's one of
(10:21):
the biggest stress points for burnout for group
practice owners is just like staff management.
And, you know, you'll never be able to
make everyone happy.
And so you have to be able to
emotionally regulate and be okay with making decisions
that not don't necessarily make every single person
happy, but will make ensure the health of
the business as a whole and everyone in
(10:43):
the business as a whole.
And so if leading people and having difficult
conversations, and leading those difficult conversations is something
you don't want to do, I would be
thinking about if owning a business that employs
people is something that you want to do.
Right.
It's really like just not being responsible for
the business.
(11:03):
Yeah.
To not lead.
Right.
This laid back, it's kind of like being
the cool girl.
Like it doesn't exist.
Yeah, no.
The laid back boss, who like lets everybody
do their thing doesn't really exist as a
boss.
It's part of why I stay busy.
It's part of why so many people come
to me to start their own practice because
they either have a micromanaging group practice owner
(11:25):
or one who is like, so laissez-faire,
they don't know the boundaries, and then they
get in trouble for things because the boundaries
were never set properly.
Right.
No sort of communication about expectations.
Yep.
And so if leading, like really leading also
feels like something you're wanting to do, then
(11:47):
I guess the next thing to consider is
what the current pain points are for business
businesses like ours, so that you can, you
know, kind of jump into leading and owning
a practice with the awareness of what things
you are going to have to be focusing
on, like more than others.
So like, 13 years ago, when I started
(12:09):
my practice, marketing wasn't something I actually had
to focus on much.
It was more like figuring out how, how
to actually lead.
That felt like a bigger issue, or thing
to tackle than marketing, because like, 13 years
ago, everyone had waitlists, just long waitlists.
And so filling them up wasn't something that
(12:30):
I had to even focus on learning how
to do.
Whereas now, like you're seeing so many solo
and group practice owners who didn't have to
do this, scrambling to be like, what marketing
methods are going to work now in this
environment?
Because the marketing methods of five years ago,
don't necessarily work now, you know, right?
As our environment shifts, so does how things
(12:53):
work shift.
And so my assumption based off of everyone
that I talked to, and my own experience
as a practice owner, too, is that marketing
and recruiting are two of the more difficult
things right now, when it comes to having
a group practice.
And so just ensuring that you have the
(13:15):
time and focus to be able to invest
time, I guess, into those two areas, because
it takes some work and trial and error
to see what's going to work for your
particular business in terms of getting visibility in
your area, when visibility is just so low.
Yeah.
And this is something we've been talking about
(13:37):
at Abundance for probably about a year.
It doesn't mean you're not going to be
successful.
It just means you have to be a
lot more intentional with your marketing in order
to be successful.
And it might take a little bit longer
for you to reach your goals than it
did before.
We had people in our like high touch
programs who were getting full in three months
previously, and now it's taking about six months.
(14:00):
And those are our programs with like a
lot of mentorship and a lot of handholding.
So you have to be really clear about
what your marketing strategies are, and you have
to actually do them and not just think
about them, or do them next week.
And do them consistently.
I see that too, is like when people
get into a space of anxiety, or like,
(14:22):
they're freaking out, because all of a sudden,
they throw like 100 things against the wall.
And what I see in that is like,
it's nearly impossible to know what works when
you throw 100 things at the wall.
But two, if they are feeling like something's
not working, they stop doing it right away
and move to the next thing when business
ownership is a lot like a big ship.
(14:45):
Anything you do does, whether you're small or
really large, takes a little bit of time
for you to see the, I don't know,
the success in something.
And so just because you start, you know,
do a week of a ton of social
media and doing videos doesn't mean that it's
going to translate to you getting any new
clients from it next week.
A lot of these things take time.
(15:07):
And so I always say, especially in these
cases with marketing efforts is, I suggest doing
one thing at a time, all in for
around six months.
So you can actually see if that thing
is working.
And throughout those six months, if you see
traction happening, what, like looking deeper into what's
making it work, doing more of that, looking
(15:27):
at parts of that, that maybe are helpful,
removing those things, so you're not wasting efforts,
and like really just focusing on that one
thing before you start to shift to another
sort of marketing method.
Absolutely.
We go into fix it mode, right?
Like, so I totally understand the impulse to
do everything.
And then there are lots of shiny objects
out there.
(15:49):
And the people marketing them are good at
marketing them, you know, so it's easy to
feel like something's a magic bullet, but nothing
is a magic bullet, not a single thing
is going to be a magic bullet that
works for everybody.
Yep.
Unfortunately, I would really love a magic bullet
sometimes when you I would too.
I feel like whenever people will sometimes assume
(16:10):
that because I've had a group practice for
so long that I don't struggle with any
of the things that people who are newly
starting a group practice are struggling with.
And that's not necessarily the case.
My practice in Chicago also has less referrals
than it did last year, just like 99
% of the others.
It's just a matter of, you know, me
(16:31):
being aware of it and engaging in some
act to to change it versus like sort
of sitting back and feeling despair.
And I don't know, closing your ears and
your eyes and being like, it'll change on
its own.
Yeah.
And that's one of the things like people
will come to me and be like, I
saw in this free Facebook group I'm in
about how everybody's slow.
(16:54):
And even these people who've been established forever
are slow.
And I'm like, yeah, and they're posting about
it in Facebook group instead of doing something
about it.
So if you don't want to be like
them, then get out of those groups because
they don't help.
And most of the information is not great
anyway.
Yeah.
And do the things that have worked for
you in the past and see if those
work first.
And most of the time they will if
(17:15):
it was like a really well thought out
strategy.
Yeah.
And then add something else if you need
to.
Now, I'm curious, are you seeing a difference
at all?
Is there and it might just be a
slight difference or not at all between group
practices that are niched and group practices that
are more generalized in terms of referrals?
(17:36):
Or is it easier for one group over
the other right now?
That's a good question.
I mean, if we assume that both of
these practices are well established, and it's not
because they're new that, you know, because then
they'll struggle for the same reason, initially, if
they're both established, I don't think there's necessarily
that big a difference, even though I do
(17:58):
talk a lot about as a way of
forecasting and like, being able to weather the
future storms that a niche practice is a
great thing to have.
I guess my question would be, if it's
a multidisciplinary practice that can support the whole
person, those are like, it's not necessarily two
(18:20):
sides of the same coin.
But those two things are, are two types
of group practices that have the easiest time
when it comes to marketing and recruiting.
If you're a group practice that's not intentionally
multi specialty treating the whole person, but just
kind of like a hodgepodge of just hiring
random people.
I think those are those are the practices
(18:42):
that struggle the most.
But if you're very niched, one, you have
an easier time knowing who your ideal audience
is, which a multi specialty practice doesn't because
they pretty much serve everyone, right, which is
more difficult in terms of marketing.
But what the multi specialty practice has is
the ability to work with more businesses in
(19:04):
order to get new referrals, because they have,
if they're a larger practice that can like
sort of treat the whole person, they have
just more flexibility and being able to see
more types of clients.
Like I said, the issue comes to those
practices that say they're multi specialty when in
reality, they're they're more random, right?
They're just hiring anyone who comes in, and
(19:26):
they don't have like an intentional sort of
process for who they're treating as a whole.
My practice is multi specialty, we have site
testing, med management, therapists that treat different parts
of the lifespan, so that when a family
member comes in, our practice can pretty much
treat anyone in that family, each therapist has
a specialty.
And that makes it easier to market as
(19:47):
well, a little more difficult than a very
niched practice, because there you only have to
focus on one issue.
You know, but I find that those two
options, like an intentional whole person, multi specialty
practice, or a very niched one are the
two types of practices, group practices that'll weather
kind of the storms that we're kind of
(20:08):
seeing right now.
I ask because when I think about just
marketing in general, niched is so much easier,
like it just gives you Yep, it gives
you your copy, right gives you everything.
Yep.
So that was my suspicion.
Yeah, so when we market in my practice,
it's like, we have to gear our marketing
in a lot of different directions to reach
(20:30):
the couples therapist that we have to reach
the child therapist we have.
But we, as long as you're intentional about
like having a sort of through line or
process for each one, then it's the same
as having, I guess, like, multiple niches.
Yeah, a little bit more effort.
And like, how do you highlight each one
of those things individually without watering down the
(20:52):
other ones?
Right.
And that relies on your individual therapists each
having a niche.
Yes, yes.
Because otherwise, it'd just be chaos.
Yeah, 100%.
And that's the difference between like an unintentional
practice that says they're multi specialty when everyone
just doesn't, like every therapist just sees whoever
and they don't have their own specialization and
niche themselves.
(21:13):
Then yeah, that's the practice that'll have the
most difficulty standing out.
So hodgepodge practices are out for 2025.
Yeah, they've been out for a while.
But yeah, for sure for 2025, especially as
like referrals are just a little bit more
difficult.
Getting niched, whether as a whole practice or
making sure that each of your individual therapists
(21:33):
is very clear on their bios and all
that in terms of who they see is
going to be what makes it easier.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And what I've always found, so this doesn't
necessarily, this hasn't necessarily changed in the over
a decade that I've had a group is
that I find, and of course, there's outliers
to everything.
(21:54):
I always feel like any anytime I give
suggestions, I'm like, of course, there's outlying situations
where what I say, like, people are successful
outside of that.
But I find that the way to grow
your referrals is through relationship building and less
through like trying to get every single person
to know you exist.
(22:14):
So in my group practice, each location that
I have, we focus on three relationships that
in the community, whether it's a school or
a hospital or another business, healthcare related business,
we focus on three relationships that we nurture
indefinitely.
Of course, the byproduct is we become known
through with other people.
(22:35):
But we look for three types of businesses
or places or local businesses that support our
ideal clients in that location.
And we nurture those three relationships.
One, it makes it much more manageable than
like, feeling like you have to spend every
day like outreaching to like every business all
around you.
And having coffee with every other practice owner
(22:56):
around you or, you know, chiropractor and dieticians
are but like three, I always say three
good relationships.
And you can look at your existing clients
and say, like, where are they going?
Where are their doctors?
Like, what are they doing?
Do all your clients go to this local
yoga studio?
Okay, maybe that's like one of the places,
but to then, you know, reach out to
(23:18):
those three, and then spend your time throughout
the years nurturing those three relationships.
Literally, it's so simple, a lot less stressful.
But if you focus on that, you're going
to have that reciprocal relationship.
And I always say start with a networking
perspective more than a marketing one in that
you want to ask about them.
Like everyone wants to talk about their business.
(23:39):
If you should go up to them and
are like, wanting to talk only about your
business, it tends to have, I think, a
little less success than being like, I have
a lot of clients that come to your
yoga studio or that come to see you
for chiropractic work.
Or I wanted to get to know like,
what kind of stuff do you guys do
so that when we get new clients, if
that's a need, I can refer them to
you, you're more likely to get interest from
(24:00):
that person who is like, oh, she knows
about me.
She knows about my business.
My ideal clients as a chiropractor seem to
be going to her practice.
Now we can start this relationship.
Yeah, you know, we have this in common.
I've always preached like networking is the thing
that built my practice.
And I tell people like five marketing strategies,
one of which is a website, one of
(24:20):
which is networking, like those two are set
in stone.
And I understand it when people don't understand
what networking is, but there is some resistance
to networking.
So I love that they're getting this reinforced
that it can also fill an entire group
practice.
How many clinicians do you have working for
you at this point?
Like 50.
So like it can fill a group practice
(24:43):
when you are focused on really just forming
a relationship.
That's all you're doing.
You are not selling yourself.
You are not being salesy.
And I'm an introvert.
You know me.
I am.
You and I are opposites in these ways.
I don't like talking to people.
I don't like meeting new people.
And so that was one of the things
that I struggled with most was having to
(25:04):
get in front of people.
And like I said, 13 years ago, when
I started my group, marketing wasn't as big
of an issue because referrals were so high.
So I lucked out as a person who
doesn't like to meet new people.
I lucked out for a long time.
But that's the one thing I love about
networking over marketing.
I don't love either.
So at the end of the day, for
those that don't like it, you cannot like
(25:25):
it and still do it.
What I find is that marketing feels too
salesy for me.
I can hire people that can do it
for me.
But I prefer to create relationships, which marketing
doesn't do.
Networking does.
And networking is less about trying to sell
yourself.
It's more about getting a relationship with someone
where you both mutually are helping a certain
(25:47):
population in your neighborhood.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Thank you, Maureen.
And you're going to be doing a training
in the Abundance Party.
So for those who are in there, make
sure you don't miss it.
For those who are not yet in the
Abundance Party, hop in.
You also all need to go to the
grouppracticeexchange.com.
This is where she teaches you how to
build a group practice.
So if you were considering a group practice,
you need to join that membership.
(26:08):
It's affordable.
You can do it.
So thank you.
And I'm looking forward to that training.
Yeah.
Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant
with Powebox.
Use code ABUNDANT to get Powebox for less
than a hundred dollars your first year at
P-A-U-B-O-X dot com.
(26:28):
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
TherapyNotes is the way to go.
Go to TherapyNotes.com and use the promo
code ABUNDANT for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow, rate, and
(26:49):
review, but I really want you to share
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
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