Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
(00:26):
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, onto the show.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
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(00:47):
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(01:08):
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(01:30):
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(01:53):
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(02:16):
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(02:37):
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(02:59):
Hi.
Hey, Meredith.
How are you doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
Good.
Yeah.
I was just listening to Russell Barkley's little
series that you sent.
Oh, good.
We have a kiddo with severe ADHD as
well.
(03:22):
He's saying, and you're trying to do multiple
things all at once.
I'm like, you're right.
I'm trying to check my email.
I'm trying to listen to this thing and
it's not working.
I feel very called out.
(03:42):
My big goal for today is actually, would
it be possible to have my employee Jasmine
join us?
Yeah, absolutely.
She's had her confidence shaken a smidge just
with some consultation calls.
(04:03):
She might need a little pep talk on
finding her niche because she's new.
She's provisionally licensed and just how to confidently
(04:24):
approach a consultation call.
I know one of the things we talked,
I coached her on was not, and she
was doing something that I used to do
when I was not feeling really confident, which
is to say, do you want to think
about it?
Then I'll reach back out to you.
No, you want to approach it from, they
(04:46):
want therapy and let's get you on the
schedule.
I sent her the invite.
She just popped up.
She's in the waiting room.
I can pop her in.
Absolutely.
I'll do it right now.
Hey, Jasmine.
Hi, I'm Allison.
(05:07):
Hi, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too.
I'm excited to dig in.
It sounds like maybe some niche help and
some consult call support, is that going to
be helpful for you?
Yeah, I think so.
With consultation calls, I've been going off of
just a general guideline that I made up
(05:30):
for myself.
I wanted to see if there's a better
way to go about it, especially with just
wrapping up the call too.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I can share the way that I've done
it that works and give you any words,
take any words that work.
This can be recorded and Meredith can get
(05:51):
you the recording if that makes it easier
too.
She phrases things very well.
You have a way with words, for sure.
Yay.
Basically, I'll say, tell me a little bit
about why you're coming in to therapy, what's
going on in life.
(06:13):
Some people will tell you the 45-minute
version if you let them, because everything feels
really relevant.
I totally understand that.
For those people, that's why I say a
little bit about what's going on for you,
because there's a frame there for them.
Then some people will be like, I've just
been sad lately.
It's like, okay, let's get a little more.
(06:33):
If somebody is off to the races and
they're talking and talking and you're trying to
get a word in edgewise, what I usually
say to get in is like, this sounds
like a lot.
This has been clearly really hard for you.
Validating them, because clients are calling to make
an appointment and that's what I really want
(06:53):
everybody to understand about consultation calls.
They're not really calling to interview you.
If I've got a mole that needs looking
at, I'm not calling the dermatologist and wanting
to chit-chat about it too much.
I want to make an appointment.
That's how most of our people come in.
Every now and then we have somebody shopping
for a therapist, which I also think is
fine.
(07:14):
Most of the time, this is the step
they're getting through because they need to in
order to make an appointment, which can help
with confidence at the end of the call,
if you keep that in mind.
I'll validate, this sounds like it's been a
lot for you.
Assuming what they're talking about is within my
(07:34):
wheelhouse, it's something I know I can help
them with.
Then I'll say, it sounds to me based
on what you've said.
We'll take panic attacks, for example.
Somebody is talking about these panic attacks they're
having.
It sounds to me like you're struggling with
a lot of anxiety, potentially anxiety attacks.
This is something I have a lot of
(07:55):
experience with.
From my perspective, it feels like it'd be
a really good fit.
What questions do you have for me to
see if I'm a good fit for you?
Most of the time, us just sitting there
on the phone, listening to them and validating
them already has them trusting us because this
isn't the first.
They've heard of us most of the time.
(08:16):
They've seen you on website.
They've checked you out before.
Often, it's like, I feel good.
It's fine to go ahead.
Then I'll say, awesome.
Let's look at the schedule.
I've got these times available.
Which of these work for you?
I usually only give two to three times.
Even if you've got a lot of space
in your calendar, I don't want you to
be like, I have these 73 times this
(08:37):
week because nobody wants to see me.
We don't want to give that impression.
Smart.
You give them the times.
If they're like, I can't do any of
those.
Then I'll say like, what's your availability?
Let me see if there's something that I
can make work.
I'm not working outside of my work hours,
but if I do happen to have a
space I didn't tell them about, then that
(08:58):
gives the opportunity to fill that.
They really do want to make this appointment
with you, Jasmine.
They're not wanting to quiz you or anything
like that.
They want help and you're the person they
want to see.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I think where I can struggle is since
we do take insurance, just wanting to make
(09:20):
sure that that all lines up for them.
Then that's where I can struggle with the
waiting time because I did switch verbiage as
of last week because previously I was just
sending them the code so that they could
check with insurance and make sure that payments
were going to be okay for them.
But last week I did start just asking,
(09:43):
how do you feel about moving forward?
Then I did have a couple people that
were good to move forward, but then a
couple that did want to look into insurance
before scheduling anything.
But then yeah, I wanted to ask you
too, how often should I follow up?
Because then I feel, I don't know, I
(10:05):
follow up a couple of times, but then
I don't want to overdo it too.
I think a couple of times is good,
but I want to go back to something
you said about having them check on their
insurance.
I'd flip it because if I need to
call my insurance, I'm going to take forever
to call them.
I'm going to do it like three weeks
from now maybe, even if I'm really motivated
(10:26):
in a lot of other ways.
So what I have found helpful is to
say, let's go ahead and get you set
up for early next week and in between
now and then call your insurance, make sure
that that works.
And if it doesn't, for any reason, you
just give me a call back and cancel.
Just make sure you do it before Friday
if we're scheduling for Monday.
Gotcha.
(10:47):
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
So set the appointment and then yeah, if
it doesn't work out, then we can cancel.
Yeah.
And that way, then they have a timeline.
If I have a deadline that I have
to call my insurance and I'll do it.
But if it's like, yeah, just check it
out and give me a call back, I'm
not getting help for a while or I'm
finding a practice that will do it for
me.
Mm hmm.
(11:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and this is Jasmine.
We do have the ability to verify their
insurance.
And if you're like, right, I don't want
to put anything on them.
You know, I want to make this as
easy as possible for them to get on
my schedule.
Like we can offer that.
And Chris is doing most of that work
(11:27):
for us.
We have a medical biller who verifies benefits.
You know, you can just say, hey, it's
just send me a copy of your cards.
I'll put it in the system and and
anything we can do to make it easier
on them.
It sounds like would be a helpful take
some some of those obstacles out of getting
(11:47):
them on your schedule.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And some EHRs also have like instant like
I know with therapy notes, you can it
will allow you to look at what their
real time insurance benefits are.
We use simple practice and they have like
a verify your coverage.
It's just not the thing I always discourage.
It's just that it's active.
(12:09):
Yeah, got it.
OK, so it's not good info.
Yeah.
And Chris will actually look at what their
copay is going to be and communicate that
to them.
Yeah.
So you could say like we can go
ahead and set this appointment up if you
want to send us a picture of the
front of your insurance or you can send
it in an email to Chris and we'll
(12:31):
get back with you about what your insurance
benefits are.
You could do that or you can have
them call.
And what what I've found is a lot
of people will call to understand or they
won't call, but they're like, I'm fine to
just figure it out.
If I've got a deductible, I've got a
deductible.
But what they really want need is to
be seen.
So, yeah, because I've definitely found that that's
(12:54):
where the the waiting time comes in, because
it is, yeah, a big obstacle for them
to call and can just, yeah, take a
few weeks.
Yeah.
So you could have such a useful piece
of it.
So where's the bottleneck?
Yeah, it's totally.
So you could go back with people who've
kind of ghosted and say like, hey, I'm
(13:16):
following up in case the insurance piece is
like a barrier for you.
We have someone on staff now who can
check benefits if you want to get back
with me your insurance information, we can take
care of that for you.
And that might get you a few people
in at once.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Cool.
And then, yeah, I think that I have
(13:38):
been definitely building my caseload and that's been
going well.
I just have like a lot of biweekly
people.
And so then I feel like I have
to fill in the other weeks.
So, yeah, I don't really know kind of
what that number then looks like in terms
of having a full caseload, because I do
(13:59):
have so many biweekly people.
Are they biweekly because clinically that's best for
them or because it's just more convenient because
they've got other things going on?
I would say, you know, a few definitely
clinically appropriate.
And when I have had ones where we
did need to meet more, that was a
(14:19):
conversation that I had and we switched to
weekly.
But then otherwise it's like, oh, I'm private
pay and I need to spread out, you
know, the amount that I'm paying for services.
And yeah, I would say a lot of
the private pay ones are the biweekly people.
(14:40):
Okay.
But it's clinically okay for that, like they're
still going to make progress at that pace?
Yeah, I would say I can think of
one that would probably do better with weekly,
but he would really struggle with payments.
So I think that biweekly is, yeah, just
going to have to work for him.
(15:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sorry, not sorry to interrupt this podcast.
You've heard of the summer slump.
This year we're shifting it to the summer
sprint.
Things will likely be slow this summer.
So let's use that time to get your
practice ready when the fall comes.
And the summer sprint will get your marketing
created or tightened up together.
We'll spend June, July, and August making sure
(15:21):
clients find you and choose you when the
rush of fall clients comes.
Doors close in two days, late at night,
Friday, May 23rd, and we'll start the first
week of June.
So hit that link in the bio and
I'll see you soon.
So what I would suggest is stacking your
biweekly people.
So like Tuesdays at two are your, your
(15:44):
times where you have biweekly people.
So you've got the first and third of
the month and the second, the fourth of
the month, and they just kind of fit
in like puzzle pieces with each other.
And that way you can see what your
availability is.
Cause I'm a big fan of like, I
have the same people at the same time
of day.
It's easier for them to arrange their schedule.
They're not having to scramble a week before
every time it helps me see and know.
(16:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it just helps me know what do
I have available and what do I not
have available?
But when you have a lot of biweekly
people, it does make it really messy because
then when you have weekly people calling and
wanting to fit in and you can't squeeze
them in, then it's, it's impacting your practice
and your ability to take home money.
(16:27):
So stacking, having those times that are set
for biweekly people and just shifting them, letting
people know I'm shifting my calendar some.
I want to see if these times work
and having a few options for the first
people you ask.
And I would do it strategically.
The people who you know have more rigid
schedules, they just can't take off as much
(16:49):
time with work or they're not working from
home or whatever.
I would give them the most choices and
then kind of whittle it down from there.
But having them fill in for each other
really makes a big difference in having nice,
healthy gaps in your schedule for the weekly
people.
Okay.
(17:10):
Oh, and then I did want to see
just in terms of marketing strategies, would you
say that networking and really talking with other
therapists in the area is a really good,
like top strategy to use?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's one that I consider non-negotiable and
having helped people start practices for 10 years,
(17:32):
it is way more important now than it
ever has been with big therapy tech taking
over and filling in a lot of the
other marketing strategies that we might've used in
the past, like psychology today, when they're adding
a thousand people to your town, it's all
of a sudden a lot less useful for
everyone.
So we're starting to see that in different
places across the country, but the thing that
(17:54):
big therapy tech cannot mimic is relationships.
And so as you build those where you
live and even afar, if you're seeing people
online, you can build those relationships via zoom.
It's going to be, I would say it's
probably going to be the top thing to
keep us all full in the future is
those relationships.
(18:14):
Okay.
The other thing Allison's a big proponent of
is finding your niche.
And I know that, and maybe she can
give her elevator pitch on that, but I
know when you're starting out, it's so hard
to even know, like, what is my, what
is, what is my favorite kind of client
to work with?
(18:35):
But, um, that's often where I think the
conversation starts is tell me about your favorite
client and what is it about them?
You know, they're, what they're going through that
you feel is such a unique fit for
your skillset and then kind of like building
a niche there.
And really, cause you've talked a little bit
(18:58):
about trauma, but we're an OCD anxiety clinic.
So we're seeing more of those referrals, but
yeah.
Anybody want to jump in?
I just wanted to throw that out.
And I mean, I see trauma as a
really great plugin to anxiety and OCD because
there is that Venn diagram overlap that somebody
(19:20):
might be more present to their trauma than
they are.
They are more disturbed by their trauma than
their OCD, or they might be in denial
about the OCD, but they can absolutely acknowledge
that they have trauma.
And there's so many people with anxiety that
think the anxiety is because of work or
whatever, but it's like underneath.
(19:44):
So trauma is a pretty heavy niche.
It's a really important niche.
So I think when I'm helping people with
their niches, it's really important to think about
like, how are you going to feel after
a day of seeing somebody?
Like however many clients you want to see
in a day, are you going to come
home and still have energy for the people
(20:06):
you love for yourself?
And for some people, like, I mean, I
just call it trauma heavy, but it also
is so fulfilling and so rewarding because you
get to see so much strength and resilience
all day.
So it just depends on the therapist and
the caseload and the, like the number of
people you're seeing and the fit of the
(20:27):
people you're seeing, which is part of why
niche is so important because it's a really
great recipe for burnout to not have a
niche.
And I don't want any associates getting burned
out.
I mean, there are plenty of associates that
are burned out for good reason.
And I want to minimize that.
So that's a really good point.
(20:47):
What I would say is that like working
with OCD, I've really enjoyed it.
And the more that I learn about it
and do research and trainings, like I really
do enjoy it.
And I really enjoy working with the clients
that I have that have OCD.
And anxiety has always been my wheelhouse, even
when I was like working at an agency
(21:10):
and was more of a care manager role.
Like I really enjoyed working with people with
anxiety, just helping them with mindfulness and balance
and CBT stuff.
Like I really enjoy that.
And when Meredith said, just like thinking about,
you know, some of the clients that you
(21:30):
feel like you're really good fit with and
like are your favorite, I would definitely say
that the people with anxiety is where I
feel is a good fit.
I also really enjoy working with depression, because
I do really enjoy meeting people where they're
at and helping them make small steps, as
(21:52):
well as kind of digging into their self
worth, and those kinds of things.
And so with that, I feel like 99
% of the time trauma comes along with
it.
So like, yes, I enjoy working with trauma.
But it doesn't necessarily Yeah, like have to
be trauma.
(22:14):
Solely, I think that, yeah, there's always trauma
pieces that end up coming up.
And I do enjoy like helping people work
through those things and process it.
But it can also just Yeah, kind of
be like something that backpacks the other shot.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's fun.
And it's interesting thinking about like, how do
(22:35):
your clients identify their problem before they come
to see you?
Because three sessions in they've got more insight
about it.
It's like, Oh, yeah, I'm processing trauma that's
really led to a bunch of depression, instead
of like, when they first come in, where
it's like, I don't know what's wrong with
me.
I can't get out of bed sometimes, like
I don't want to see my friends.
And if we're marketing to where they're at,
before they come and see us, they feel
(22:57):
so seen, they feel an immediate sense of
trust.
But if we're too far down the line
from our ideal client, and we're talking about
trauma, and they're not there yet, then they
don't see themselves at all.
So for you, it's thinking through like, who's
your favorite if 60% of your caseload
could be one presenting problem, which probably has
(23:17):
some other underlying or comorbid things going on,
but like they identify their problem in one
specific way.
It's not all your caseload, because none of
us want 100% of our niche.
Like, yeah, this putting on spot, you don't
have to stick to this answer, but gut
reaction, like what's, what would you want 60
% of your people coming in with?
(23:40):
You know, definitely anxiety.
And maybe it is just because that is
really my wheelhouse and where I feel most
comfortable and knowledgeable.
Again, like I do really like working with
my OCD clients, but yeah, still feel like
I'm getting grounding in that.
(24:03):
So yeah, definitely see anxiety more so.
And, you know, of course, just like clients
who are willing to, you know, do homework
and try things that I suggest, or, you
know, just teach them about, but I feel
(24:24):
like that can kind of be therapists in
general appreciate, you know, clients have some follow
through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so we can take anxiety and we
can add specificity to it.
So maybe it's anxious young adults, maybe it's
anxious empty nesters, maybe it's anxious new moms.
So like finding a demographic slash specificity to
(24:48):
add to it to make it really pop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It could be phase of life.
And it might be, it might also be
a particular presentation of anxiety.
If you love helping people who have panic
attacks, be like, get to that place where
they're like, Oh shit, here comes a panic
attack.
Just ride it out.
Like I have a million other times.
(25:08):
It's okay.
Then it could be panic disorder or like
you could frame it as anxiety attacks, which
is what colloquially they're often called.
Or if you really love generalized anxiety disorder,
you can frame that in the ways that
your ideal clients present with it.
Like you'd never not worry.
You're always stressed out and you feel like
(25:29):
you've got to be doing something all the
time.
So the specificity diagnostically or presentation wise, plus
the demographic can be really, really helpful for
people to feel like, okay, Jasmine, my person,
like this is the person who's really going
to get me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do feel like, especially recently when people
(25:49):
have read my bio on the website or
on psychology today, I have had people say,
you know, that's exactly what I'm going through.
And I think you totally understand.
And I think that my bios are more
tailored toward, you know, you feel like you
want to relax and your brain's not shutting
off and you're worried about the things that
you have to do today, tomorrow, next day.
(26:11):
So, yeah, but that's a point about the,
um, like age range too.
That's not something that I have necessarily, yeah,
thought about or pinned down.
What were you going to say?
Oh, I was just going to say the
prompts that I encouraged you and Sarah to
use to write your bio came from Allison.
(26:31):
So she's the origin, but like, yeah, there's
something like for me when a client sees
like, oh, it feels like I'm playing whack
-a-mole with my compulsions and there's a
new one popping up.
They're like, that is how it feels.
And right.
If, when you can have that moment with
a client, like that again, they're calling you.
(26:55):
So finding out the specific things they're saying
or that they're connecting to on your, um,
so I always ask like, oh, well, what
was it about my bio?
If they're saying like, oh, it really spoke
to me.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Cause you can then, if there's, if it's
thematic, like if three people that you really
love working with are like, you had this
(27:16):
one sentence about X, Y, and Z, then
you can like have some less interesting sentences
in our bios.
At first you can take out the ones
that are, aren't really moving the needle and
you can talk more.
You can go into more specifics about the
thing that they've already identified.
It's was really effective in having them choose
you.
Yeah.
And that thing about what you said about
(27:37):
ruminating, like, oh man, we could write a
bunch of sentences about people who feel like
caught in that cycle of rumination.
They can't turn it off.
For sure.
You could write about the hell of trying
to use meditation because everybody's health, everybody who's
anxious to meditate, right.
Like trying to meditate, to try to take
(27:58):
care of yourself and then getting more frustrated
with yourself because your brain goes into overdrive,
you know?
So like there are all these specific lived
experiences that you can describe that will have
people be like, do you have a camera
in my brain?
Like what's going on?
Yeah.
It's a good one.
Awesome.
Well, we're coming up on time.
Do you feel like this gives you a
(28:18):
jumping off point, Jasmine?
Totally.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
I think it gives me some things to
hone in on.
And with the calls too, what I was
doing is I was like providing my background
first.
I think it is a really good idea
to just start off with like what brings
you in and then pulling in how my
(28:39):
background can help rather than the other way
around.
And to keep that part too, because they
don't care about you that much, right?
So like to keep it really brief when
you do, like I wouldn't say unless they're
asking questions, specific questions, I wouldn't say more
than a sentence or maybe two.
And always everything you're saying in those one
to two sentences is going back to whatever
(28:59):
they've disclosed.
Yeah.
I think you're going to convert a lot
more people.
A lot more people are going to come
in.
Just shifting a few really simple things.
Like you weren't doing anything bad or wrong.
It's just- We're not taught how to
sell ourselves.
We're not at all.
Yeah.
In fact, it makes most of us uncomfortable.
Yeah, absolutely.
(29:21):
Absolutely.
Because we're also taught not to exist in
therapy in grad school.
So we're like just there as a vessel
for healing.
So awesome.
Well, Meredith, I'd love for you to keep
me updated on how things go for Jasmine.
I wish you luck, Jasmine.
Like you're so close to like being exactly
where you want to be.
So thank you so much for your help.
(29:42):
Thank you.
Absolutely.
I'll see y'all later.
Okay.
Take care.
Thanks.
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
(00:26):
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
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Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, onto the show.
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(00:47):
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(01:08):
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(02:59):
Hi.
Hey, Meredith.
How are you doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
Good.
Yeah.
I was just listening to Russell Barkley's little
series that you sent.
Oh, good.
We have a kiddo with severe ADHD as
well.
(03:22):
He's saying, and you're trying to do multiple
things all at once.
I'm like, you're right.
I'm trying to check my email.
I'm trying to listen to this thing and
it's not working.
I feel very called out.
(03:42):
My big goal for today is actually, would
it be possible to have my employee Jasmine
join us?
Yeah, absolutely.
She's had her confidence shaken a smidge just
with some consultation calls.
(04:03):
She might need a little pep talk on
finding her niche because she's new.
She's provisionally licensed and just how to confidently
(04:24):
approach a consultation call.
I know one of the things we talked,
I coached her on was not, and she
was doing something that I used to do
when I was not feeling really confident, which
is to say, do you want to think
about it?
Then I'll reach back out to you.
No, you want to approach it from, they
(04:46):
want therapy and let's get you on the
schedule.
I sent her the invite.
She just popped up.
She's in the waiting room.
I can pop her in.
Absolutely.
I'll do it right now.
Hey, Jasmine.
Hi, I'm Allison.
(05:07):
Hi, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too.
I'm excited to dig in.
It sounds like maybe some niche help and
some consult call support, is that going to
be helpful for you?
Yeah, I think so.
With consultation calls, I've been going off of
just a general guideline that I made up
(05:30):
for myself.
I wanted to see if there's a better
way to go about it, especially with just
wrapping up the call too.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I can share the way that I've done
it that works and give you any words,
take any words that work.
This can be recorded and Meredith can get
(05:51):
you the recording if that makes it easier
too.
She phrases things very well.
You have a way with words, for sure.
Yay.
Basically, I'll say, tell me a little bit
about why you're coming in to therapy, what's
going on in life.
(06:13):
Some people will tell you the 45-minute
version if you let them, because everything feels
really relevant.
I totally understand that.
For those people, that's why I say a
little bit about what's going on for you,
because there's a frame there for them.
Then some people will be like, I've just
been sad lately.
It's like, okay, let's get a little more.
(06:33):
If somebody is off to the races and
they're talking and talking and you're trying to
get a word in edgewise, what I usually
say to get in is like, this sounds
like a lot.
This has been clearly really hard for you.
Validating them, because clients are calling to make
an appointment and that's what I really want
(06:53):
everybody to understand about consultation calls.
They're not really calling to interview you.
If I've got a mole that needs looking
at, I'm not calling the dermatologist and wanting
to chit-chat about it too much.
I want to make an appointment.
That's how most of our people come in.
Every now and then we have somebody shopping
for a therapist, which I also think is
fine.
(07:14):
Most of the time, this is the step
they're getting through because they need to in
order to make an appointment, which can help
with confidence at the end of the call,
if you keep that in mind.
I'll validate, this sounds like it's been a
lot for you.
Assuming what they're talking about is within my
(07:34):
wheelhouse, it's something I know I can help
them with.
Then I'll say, it sounds to me based
on what you've said.
We'll take panic attacks, for example.
Somebody is talking about these panic attacks they're
having.
It sounds to me like you're struggling with
a lot of anxiety, potentially anxiety attacks.
This is something I have a lot of
(07:55):
experience with.
From my perspective, it feels like it'd be
a really good fit.
What questions do you have for me to
see if I'm a good fit for you?
Most of the time, us just sitting there
on the phone, listening to them and validating
them already has them trusting us because this
isn't the first.
They've heard of us most of the time.
(08:16):
They've seen you on website.
They've checked you out before.
Often, it's like, I feel good.
It's fine to go ahead.
Then I'll say, awesome.
Let's look at the schedule.
I've got these times available.
Which of these work for you?
I usually only give two to three times.
Even if you've got a lot of space
in your calendar, I don't want you to
be like, I have these 73 times this
(08:37):
week because nobody wants to see me.
We don't want to give that impression.
Smart.
You give them the times.
If they're like, I can't do any of
those.
Then I'll say like, what's your availability?
Let me see if there's something that I
can make work.
I'm not working outside of my work hours,
but if I do happen to have a
space I didn't tell them about, then that
(08:58):
gives the opportunity to fill that.
They really do want to make this appointment
with you, Jasmine.
They're not wanting to quiz you or anything
like that.
They want help and you're the person they
want to see.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I think where I can struggle is since
we do take insurance, just wanting to make
(09:20):
sure that that all lines up for them.
Then that's where I can struggle with the
waiting time because I did switch verbiage as
of last week because previously I was just
sending them the code so that they could
check with insurance and make sure that payments
were going to be okay for them.
But last week I did start just asking,
(09:43):
how do you feel about moving forward?
Then I did have a couple people that
were good to move forward, but then a
couple that did want to look into insurance
before scheduling anything.
But then yeah, I wanted to ask you
too, how often should I follow up?
Because then I feel, I don't know, I
(10:05):
follow up a couple of times, but then
I don't want to overdo it too.
I think a couple of times is good,
but I want to go back to something
you said about having them check on their
insurance.
I'd flip it because if I need to
call my insurance, I'm going to take forever
to call them.
I'm going to do it like three weeks
from now maybe, even if I'm really motivated
(10:26):
in a lot of other ways.
So what I have found helpful is to
say, let's go ahead and get you set
up for early next week and in between
now and then call your insurance, make sure
that that works.
And if it doesn't, for any reason, you
just give me a call back and cancel.
Just make sure you do it before Friday
if we're scheduling for Monday.
Gotcha.
(10:47):
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
So set the appointment and then yeah, if
it doesn't work out, then we can cancel.
Yeah.
And that way, then they have a timeline.
If I have a deadline that I have
to call my insurance and I'll do it.
But if it's like, yeah, just check it
out and give me a call back, I'm
not getting help for a while or I'm
finding a practice that will do it for
me.
Mm hmm.
(11:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and this is Jasmine.
We do have the ability to verify their
insurance.
And if you're like, right, I don't want
to put anything on them.
You know, I want to make this as
easy as possible for them to get on
my schedule.
Like we can offer that.
And Chris is doing most of that work
(11:27):
for us.
We have a medical biller who verifies benefits.
You know, you can just say, hey, it's
just send me a copy of your cards.
I'll put it in the system and and
anything we can do to make it easier
on them.
It sounds like would be a helpful take
some some of those obstacles out of getting
(11:47):
them on your schedule.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And some EHRs also have like instant like
I know with therapy notes, you can it
will allow you to look at what their
real time insurance benefits are.
We use simple practice and they have like
a verify your coverage.
It's just not the thing I always discourage.
It's just that it's active.
(12:09):
Yeah, got it.
OK, so it's not good info.
Yeah.
And Chris will actually look at what their
copay is going to be and communicate that
to them.
Yeah.
So you could say like we can go
ahead and set this appointment up if you
want to send us a picture of the
front of your insurance or you can send
it in an email to Chris and we'll
(12:31):
get back with you about what your insurance
benefits are.
You could do that or you can have
them call.
And what what I've found is a lot
of people will call to understand or they
won't call, but they're like, I'm fine to
just figure it out.
If I've got a deductible, I've got a
deductible.
But what they really want need is to
be seen.
So, yeah, because I've definitely found that that's
(12:54):
where the the waiting time comes in, because
it is, yeah, a big obstacle for them
to call and can just, yeah, take a
few weeks.
Yeah.
So you could have such a useful piece
of it.
So where's the bottleneck?
Yeah, it's totally.
So you could go back with people who've
kind of ghosted and say like, hey, I'm
(13:16):
following up in case the insurance piece is
like a barrier for you.
We have someone on staff now who can
check benefits if you want to get back
with me your insurance information, we can take
care of that for you.
And that might get you a few people
in at once.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Cool.
And then, yeah, I think that I have
(13:38):
been definitely building my caseload and that's been
going well.
I just have like a lot of biweekly
people.
And so then I feel like I have
to fill in the other weeks.
So, yeah, I don't really know kind of
what that number then looks like in terms
of having a full caseload, because I do
(13:59):
have so many biweekly people.
Are they biweekly because clinically that's best for
them or because it's just more convenient because
they've got other things going on?
I would say, you know, a few definitely
clinically appropriate.
And when I have had ones where we
did need to meet more, that was a
(14:19):
conversation that I had and we switched to
weekly.
But then otherwise it's like, oh, I'm private
pay and I need to spread out, you
know, the amount that I'm paying for services.
And yeah, I would say a lot of
the private pay ones are the biweekly people.
(14:40):
Okay.
But it's clinically okay for that, like they're
still going to make progress at that pace?
Yeah, I would say I can think of
one that would probably do better with weekly,
but he would really struggle with payments.
So I think that biweekly is, yeah, just
going to have to work for him.
(15:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sorry, not sorry to interrupt this podcast.
You've heard of the summer slump.
This year we're shifting it to the summer
sprint.
Things will likely be slow this summer.
So let's use that time to get your
practice ready when the fall comes.
And the summer sprint will get your marketing
created or tightened up together.
We'll spend June, July, and August making sure
(15:21):
clients find you and choose you when the
rush of fall clients comes.
Doors close in two days, late at night,
Friday, May 23rd, and we'll start the first
week of June.
So hit that link in the bio and
I'll see you soon.
So what I would suggest is stacking your
biweekly people.
So like Tuesdays at two are your, your
(15:44):
times where you have biweekly people.
So you've got the first and third of
the month and the second, the fourth of
the month, and they just kind of fit
in like puzzle pieces with each other.
And that way you can see what your
availability is.
Cause I'm a big fan of like, I
have the same people at the same time
of day.
It's easier for them to arrange their schedule.
They're not having to scramble a week before
every time it helps me see and know.
(16:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it just helps me know what do
I have available and what do I not
have available?
But when you have a lot of biweekly
people, it does make it really messy because
then when you have weekly people calling and
wanting to fit in and you can't squeeze
them in, then it's, it's impacting your practice
and your ability to take home money.
(16:27):
So stacking, having those times that are set
for biweekly people and just shifting them, letting
people know I'm shifting my calendar some.
I want to see if these times work
and having a few options for the first
people you ask.
And I would do it strategically.
The people who you know have more rigid
schedules, they just can't take off as much
(16:49):
time with work or they're not working from
home or whatever.
I would give them the most choices and
then kind of whittle it down from there.
But having them fill in for each other
really makes a big difference in having nice,
healthy gaps in your schedule for the weekly
people.
Okay.
(17:10):
Oh, and then I did want to see
just in terms of marketing strategies, would you
say that networking and really talking with other
therapists in the area is a really good,
like top strategy to use?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's one that I consider non-negotiable and
having helped people start practices for 10 years,
(17:32):
it is way more important now than it
ever has been with big therapy tech taking
over and filling in a lot of the
other marketing strategies that we might've used in
the past, like psychology today, when they're adding
a thousand people to your town, it's all
of a sudden a lot less useful for
everyone.
So we're starting to see that in different
places across the country, but the thing that
(17:54):
big therapy tech cannot mimic is relationships.
And so as you build those where you
live and even afar, if you're seeing people
online, you can build those relationships via zoom.
It's going to be, I would say it's
probably going to be the top thing to
keep us all full in the future is
those relationships.
(18:14):
Okay.
The other thing Allison's a big proponent of
is finding your niche.
And I know that, and maybe she can
give her elevator pitch on that, but I
know when you're starting out, it's so hard
to even know, like, what is my, what
is, what is my favorite kind of client
to work with?
(18:35):
But, um, that's often where I think the
conversation starts is tell me about your favorite
client and what is it about them?
You know, they're, what they're going through that
you feel is such a unique fit for
your skillset and then kind of like building
a niche there.
And really, cause you've talked a little bit
(18:58):
about trauma, but we're an OCD anxiety clinic.
So we're seeing more of those referrals, but
yeah.
Anybody want to jump in?
I just wanted to throw that out.
And I mean, I see trauma as a
really great plugin to anxiety and OCD because
there is that Venn diagram overlap that somebody
(19:20):
might be more present to their trauma than
they are.
They are more disturbed by their trauma than
their OCD, or they might be in denial
about the OCD, but they can absolutely acknowledge
that they have trauma.
And there's so many people with anxiety that
think the anxiety is because of work or
whatever, but it's like underneath.
(19:44):
So trauma is a pretty heavy niche.
It's a really important niche.
So I think when I'm helping people with
their niches, it's really important to think about
like, how are you going to feel after
a day of seeing somebody?
Like however many clients you want to see
in a day, are you going to come
home and still have energy for the people
(20:06):
you love for yourself?
And for some people, like, I mean, I
just call it trauma heavy, but it also
is so fulfilling and so rewarding because you
get to see so much strength and resilience
all day.
So it just depends on the therapist and
the caseload and the, like the number of
people you're seeing and the fit of the
(20:27):
people you're seeing, which is part of why
niche is so important because it's a really
great recipe for burnout to not have a
niche.
And I don't want any associates getting burned
out.
I mean, there are plenty of associates that
are burned out for good reason.
And I want to minimize that.
So that's a really good point.
(20:47):
What I would say is that like working
with OCD, I've really enjoyed it.
And the more that I learn about it
and do research and trainings, like I really
do enjoy it.
And I really enjoy working with the clients
that I have that have OCD.
And anxiety has always been my wheelhouse, even
when I was like working at an agency
(21:10):
and was more of a care manager role.
Like I really enjoyed working with people with
anxiety, just helping them with mindfulness and balance
and CBT stuff.
Like I really enjoy that.
And when Meredith said, just like thinking about,
you know, some of the clients that you
(21:30):
feel like you're really good fit with and
like are your favorite, I would definitely say
that the people with anxiety is where I
feel is a good fit.
I also really enjoy working with depression, because
I do really enjoy meeting people where they're
at and helping them make small steps, as
(21:52):
well as kind of digging into their self
worth, and those kinds of things.
And so with that, I feel like 99
% of the time trauma comes along with
it.
So like, yes, I enjoy working with trauma.
But it doesn't necessarily Yeah, like have to
be trauma.
(22:14):
Solely, I think that, yeah, there's always trauma
pieces that end up coming up.
And I do enjoy like helping people work
through those things and process it.
But it can also just Yeah, kind of
be like something that backpacks the other shot.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's fun.
And it's interesting thinking about like, how do
(22:35):
your clients identify their problem before they come
to see you?
Because three sessions in they've got more insight
about it.
It's like, Oh, yeah, I'm processing trauma that's
really led to a bunch of depression, instead
of like, when they first come in, where
it's like, I don't know what's wrong with
me.
I can't get out of bed sometimes, like
I don't want to see my friends.
And if we're marketing to where they're at,
before they come and see us, they feel
(22:57):
so seen, they feel an immediate sense of
trust.
But if we're too far down the line
from our ideal client, and we're talking about
trauma, and they're not there yet, then they
don't see themselves at all.
So for you, it's thinking through like, who's
your favorite if 60% of your caseload
could be one presenting problem, which probably has
(23:17):
some other underlying or comorbid things going on,
but like they identify their problem in one
specific way.
It's not all your caseload, because none of
us want 100% of our niche.
Like, yeah, this putting on spot, you don't
have to stick to this answer, but gut
reaction, like what's, what would you want 60
% of your people coming in with?
(23:40):
You know, definitely anxiety.
And maybe it is just because that is
really my wheelhouse and where I feel most
comfortable and knowledgeable.
Again, like I do really like working with
my OCD clients, but yeah, still feel like
I'm getting grounding in that.
(24:03):
So yeah, definitely see anxiety more so.
And, you know, of course, just like clients
who are willing to, you know, do homework
and try things that I suggest, or, you
know, just teach them about, but I feel
(24:24):
like that can kind of be therapists in
general appreciate, you know, clients have some follow
through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so we can take anxiety and we
can add specificity to it.
So maybe it's anxious young adults, maybe it's
anxious empty nesters, maybe it's anxious new moms.
So like finding a demographic slash specificity to
(24:48):
add to it to make it really pop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It could be phase of life.
And it might be, it might also be
a particular presentation of anxiety.
If you love helping people who have panic
attacks, be like, get to that place where
they're like, Oh shit, here comes a panic
attack.
Just ride it out.
Like I have a million other times.
(25:08):
It's okay.
Then it could be panic disorder or like
you could frame it as anxiety attacks, which
is what colloquially they're often called.
Or if you really love generalized anxiety disorder,
you can frame that in the ways that
your ideal clients present with it.
Like you'd never not worry.
You're always stressed out and you feel like
(25:29):
you've got to be doing something all the
time.
So the specificity diagnostically or presentation wise, plus
the demographic can be really, really helpful for
people to feel like, okay, Jasmine, my person,
like this is the person who's really going
to get me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do feel like, especially recently when people
(25:49):
have read my bio on the website or
on psychology today, I have had people say,
you know, that's exactly what I'm going through.
And I think you totally understand.
And I think that my bios are more
tailored toward, you know, you feel like you
want to relax and your brain's not shutting
off and you're worried about the things that
you have to do today, tomorrow, next day.
(26:11):
So, yeah, but that's a point about the,
um, like age range too.
That's not something that I have necessarily, yeah,
thought about or pinned down.
What were you going to say?
Oh, I was just going to say the
prompts that I encouraged you and Sarah to
use to write your bio came from Allison.
(26:31):
So she's the origin, but like, yeah, there's
something like for me when a client sees
like, oh, it feels like I'm playing whack
-a-mole with my compulsions and there's a
new one popping up.
They're like, that is how it feels.
And right.
If, when you can have that moment with
a client, like that again, they're calling you.
(26:55):
So finding out the specific things they're saying
or that they're connecting to on your, um,
so I always ask like, oh, well, what
was it about my bio?
If they're saying like, oh, it really spoke
to me.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Cause you can then, if there's, if it's
thematic, like if three people that you really
love working with are like, you had this
(27:16):
one sentence about X, Y, and Z, then
you can like have some less interesting sentences
in our bios.
At first you can take out the ones
that are, aren't really moving the needle and
you can talk more.
You can go into more specifics about the
thing that they've already identified.
It's was really effective in having them choose
you.
Yeah.
And that thing about what you said about
(27:37):
ruminating, like, oh man, we could write a
bunch of sentences about people who feel like
caught in that cycle of rumination.
They can't turn it off.
For sure.
You could write about the hell of trying
to use meditation because everybody's health, everybody who's
anxious to meditate, right.
Like trying to meditate, to try to take
(27:58):
care of yourself and then getting more frustrated
with yourself because your brain goes into overdrive,
you know?
So like there are all these specific lived
experiences that you can describe that will have
people be like, do you have a camera
in my brain?
Like what's going on?
Yeah.
It's a good one.
Awesome.
Well, we're coming up on time.
Do you feel like this gives you a
(28:18):
jumping off point, Jasmine?
Totally.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
I think it gives me some things to
hone in on.
And with the calls too, what I was
doing is I was like providing my background
first.
I think it is a really good idea
to just start off with like what brings
you in and then pulling in how my
(28:39):
background can help rather than the other way
around.
And to keep that part too, because they
don't care about you that much, right?
So like to keep it really brief when
you do, like I wouldn't say unless they're
asking questions, specific questions, I wouldn't say more
than a sentence or maybe two.
And always everything you're saying in those one
to two sentences is going back to whatever
(28:59):
they've disclosed.
Yeah.
I think you're going to convert a lot
more people.
A lot more people are going to come
in.
Just shifting a few really simple things.
Like you weren't doing anything bad or wrong.
It's just- We're not taught how to
sell ourselves.
We're not at all.
Yeah.
In fact, it makes most of us uncomfortable.
Yeah, absolutely.
(29:21):
Absolutely.
Because we're also taught not to exist in
therapy in grad school.
So we're like just there as a vessel
for healing.
So awesome.
Well, Meredith, I'd love for you to keep
me updated on how things go for Jasmine.
I wish you luck, Jasmine.
Like you're so close to like being exactly
where you want to be.
So thank you so much for your help.
(29:42):
Thank you.
Absolutely.
I'll see y'all later.
Okay.
Take care.
Thanks.
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