Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
(00:21):
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, onto the show.
Some of y'all aren't sending HIPAA-compliant
email, and it's a problem.
Even if you're paying for a business Google
(00:43):
Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your
emails still aren't 100% compliant.
That's where Powerbox comes in.
You can connect Powerbox to your Google Workspace
or Microsoft 365 email one time, and you're
completely covered.
No one has to sign into portals.
It sends and it shows up like any
other email.
Behind the scenes, Powerbox software checks the security
(01:04):
settings of the recipient and ensures that the
email is sent properly, so you're not violating
HIPAA in the ways you may accidentally be
now.
I know, HIPAA isn't sexy, but we don't
avoid compliance in an abundant practice.
We check the boxes we need to check,
and this is the easiest way to do
that with email.
Check out my friends at powerbox.com.
That's P-A-U-B-O-X.
(01:25):
Use code ABUNDANT to get $250 off your
first year of Powerbox that makes it less
than $100 for your first year.
Again, that's P-A-U-B-O-X
.com.
Use code ABUNDANT.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
for years.
I could talk about the features and the
benefits in my sleep, but there are a
couple of things I want you to know
(01:45):
about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it
into an ad script.
First is that they actually care if you
like their platform.
They don't only make themselves available on the
phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your
hair out when you get stuck.
They also take member suggestions and implement those
that there's client demand for.
Like therapy search, an included listing service that
helps clients find you, internal and external secure
(02:07):
messaging, clinical outcome measures to keep an eye
on how your clients are progressing, a super
smooth super bill process, real-time eligibility to
check on your client's insurance.
In my conversations with the employees there at
all levels, they all really believe in their
product and they want you to love it
too.
Second, they are proudly independently owned.
Why should you care about that?
(02:29):
Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved,
the focus shifts from making customers happy to
making investors happy.
Prices go way up, innovation plateaus, making more
money with as little output as possible becomes
the number one focus.
With over 100,000 therapists using their platform,
they've been able to stay incredibly successful and
they don't have to sacrifice your experience to
(02:50):
stay there.
You can try two months free at therapynotes
.com with the coupon code ABUNDANT.
Hi Allison.
How are you?
Hi, I'm doing okay, how are you?
I'm all right also, yeah.
Good to see you, good to meet with
you.
What would be most helpful?
Yeah, so yeah, I did the three month
(03:13):
mentorship which was wonderful, you know, so many
tangible next steps and I feel like I've
made a lot of progress in terms of
setting my niche, so grief and loss with
young adults, my website, everything is all set
up, even my PLLC, everything is set up
and ready to go.
(03:34):
Where I'm stuck now is, so it's been,
let's say almost four months since I started
and you know, the setup did take at
least a couple of months is getting clients.
So I think networking is probably the area
that I could use the most help with
because I, so I have my website, I
(03:56):
have my psychology today, not much is coming
through but you know, that's that, I guess.
And my SEO started in February along with
blogging.
So, you know, they've only been running for
a little bit and you know, those are
happening.
So networking, I feel like is where I
(04:16):
can, you know, when I have downtime, like
where I can put my most effort and
I'm just trying to figure out, I really
go in circles about where to put my
effort and how to message it when I
do speak with someone.
Okay, perfect, love it.
Yeah, I can't remember, because it's been a
(04:37):
long time since we talked, I guess four
months since we talked.
How do you feel about social media?
Is that a hard pass for you?
It is a hard pass, but if and
when I get to a point where I'm
thriving and can hire an intern, I would
outsource it.
I'm not against it to that degree.
(04:58):
I just don't, I don't think I have
the capacity to add that on myself and
to be creative enough and just give it
what it needs.
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
I ask because I just think about like
young adults going through grief, looking for some
sort of, you're not aloneness.
And frankly, I mean, even you asking the
question is helpful because I sort of put
(05:19):
social media out of my head at the
beginning.
And one networking strategy that has brought my
like only new client is a friend suggested
I reach out to, you know, there's a
bunch of just like local neighborhood Instagram groups
of just like new restaurants, blah, blah, blah
in a neighborhood.
(05:40):
And I paid them a little bit of
money to host my practice with a link
to my website.
You know, obviously I don't have social and
I got a client from that.
Amazing.
And so I was like, oh, duh, where
is someone who's 25?
Like looking like they're obviously like on Instagram.
So I do feel like there is something
there that I'm not really tapping into, yeah.
(06:02):
Yeah, and I mean, like you can only
do what you have the capacity for.
Yeah.
So it's either assessing like, is that an
accurate estimate of your capacity?
Yeah.
And if it is, then like F it,
like you don't need to do social right
now, but if it is something that you
could take on, I think that it could
be really beneficial if you were creating content,
(06:23):
your ideal clients really care about, which you
would be uniquely qualified to do based on
your own experience, personally and professionally.
Yeah.
I think it's worth circling back on at
some point, maybe soon.
So in terms of networking, another thing I
(06:44):
should mention is ideally I would be out
of network.
I did sign up for one insurance, which
I've never accepted insurance before.
I don't even know how to pull out
any of the paperwork, but I recently got
empaneled with one plan in New York because
it's for a hospital that I used to
work at and they reimbursed like pretty high.
(07:05):
And I felt like I had enough contacts
that it would be worth it.
And that recently all just went through like
a couple of weeks ago.
So that's also on my mind of, I
held off on networking to certain people that
I know at this hospital, because I was
like, let me wait until I get empaneled
and then I can share this update.
Which then took another turn because I networked
(07:30):
with someone with like a high like behavioral
health position at the hospital who then informed,
I said, can I pick your brain about
how to go about contacting, this hospital owns
practices all over the city.
And she informed me that all of these
PCPs are informed that they should not respond
(07:52):
to therapists, individual therapists who reach out to
network with them, that they need to redirect
to hospital, they have contracts with different mental
health clinics.
And that didn't really cross my mind before,
because I was like, I have this whole
plan, I'm gonna reach out to all these
(08:13):
PCPs.
And now I'm like, I don't wanna waste
my time or do I reach out and
say, I don't take insurance and that way,
I'm going a different route than if I
tell them I take their insurance and they
say, no, we can't work with you.
Anyway, I'm a little mixed up in where
to put my efforts next.
(08:35):
This insurance without insurance, if I'm networking in
regards to my insurance, do I mention the
niche?
So all of that.
So is it a kind of insurance like
Kaiser where everybody who sees this doctor has
the same insurance or is it?
(08:55):
So if you work for this hospital, Mount
Sinai, which owns seven hospitals in the city
and probably a billion primary care clinics at
this point.
So if you work for them, this is
insurance you would sign up for if you
wanted employer sponsored insurance.
Got it, okay.
And it's one of the biggest private employers
in New York City.
Yeah.
Got it, okay.
(09:16):
So you take the insurance of the doctors
and of the nurses and of the, okay.
Yeah.
And some of their patients have this insurance
and some of them don't.
Right, I assume maybe many of them don't,
but yeah.
Yeah, okay, cool.
So they are going to refer in-house
because that's their business model, right?
But they're not gonna refer their colleague in
(09:38):
-house.
They're not gonna refer their son in-house.
So you would not have access to their
patients, but you would potentially have access to
their social circles, which is you're not gonna
be able to sit down with them and
talk to them because they've got systems in
place to prevent that.
(09:58):
But it's one of those things where like,
if you can just get in, it's kind
of like people who get in with a
school counselor at one school, all of a
sudden it kind of like cracks it open
for them and they can meet with others,
whereas that first one is really hard.
So I might, because they have all these
systems in place, I might put this on
the shelf for now.
There are so many therapists, we talked about
this, I think, like there are so many
(10:19):
of us who don't know what the hell
we're doing with grief and we don't really
feel competent and confident treating it.
And we feel helpless in the face of
it.
And you can relieve that pain for therapists
by being a great referral source for them.
So I think networking with other therapists, networking
with other grief therapists who are likely full.
(10:42):
Yeah, and just to add a little here,
so in my networking journey, which has been
like two months, I started with everybody I
know professionally.
So all my therapist friends know what I'm
up to.
I reached out to, I met with a
(11:02):
bunch of psychiatrists I used to work with
a couple of jobs ago at another hospital.
I would say in terms of like the
therapists I know, most people don't seem like
they're in a position where they're referring out,
like no one's super full, or if they
found a private pay client, I think they
would wanna keep for themselves.
(11:24):
The psychiatrists, I thought the meetings went well,
because there were people I already knew, a
lot of it was kind of catch up
and schmoozy with a mix of us both
saying we would refer to each other, but
they haven't referred to me.
And I don't know if they were just
being polite or just the right person hasn't
come across, or they already have their referral
(11:46):
systems in place.
I met with a therapist who, a grief
therapist, grief counselor, who I didn't know, and
we had an amazing conversation, but she also
shared at the end that she's not full
and wouldn't be like referring out.
(12:06):
A few others just didn't respond.
So I guess like any suggestions for next
steps with like who to reach out to
and find these grief therapists, did a Google
search, did psychology today, Yeah, it depends on,
well, I'm thinking about my first question, I
(12:28):
will get to your question, but I have
a question about how have you followed up
with these psychiatrists?
That's another question I have too, because I
didn't know where to, I'm still not sure
where to put my efforts.
So, do I follow up with people who
haven't referred to me yet?
So I made sure to follow up with
each of them, so good to meet with
you, a little like something that we laughed
(12:51):
about or connected on, would love to meet
again.
And then I sort of fell off from
there because I was like, were they just
being polite and they have no intention of
referring to me and like, why would I
keep asking this person for coffee?
And then I should go somewhere, should I
put those efforts somewhere else?
(13:13):
So yeah, yeah, curious to hear what you
think in terms of the follow-up.
Mm-hmm, so the insecurity that's leading you
to worry about that, I don't want it
taking any sort of driver's seat.
Okay.
Let's assume they meant what they said, like
they're grown adults.
Let's just assume they meant what they said
and that they would like to refer to
(13:33):
you, but you're back on their radar after
a bunch of time off, they have people
they're used to referring to, they probably just
forgot about you.
Yeah.
Because they're just in their flow.
So it could go a couple of different
ways.
You could let them know, hey, I got
empaneled on this major thing.
If any of your clients need to use
(13:53):
insurance for weekly therapy, it could really help
them out, especially if these are private pay
psychiatrists.
So you can just be like, I still
have a few spots left.
So let them know you have availability, but
it's not like a gaping hole in your
schedule.
I still have a few spots left and
maybe then make the offer of like, would
love to grab coffee again sometime if you're
(14:15):
interested for the people that you just really
enjoy talking to.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's helpful.
The insurance update feels like concrete enough to
creep back in.
Because there are probably so many people on
their caseload who have that insurance that are
going outside of the in-house people because
like who wants to see the therapist down
(14:37):
the hall?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like there is a lot of
hospital employees who don't want to go in
-house and I don't know how to reach
them, but I think that that does give
me an up there.
Okay.
Yeah, because I did like talk and some
of these psychiatrists said that for med management
they see like hundreds of people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My husband had a psychiatric practice and I
(14:58):
think he had three or 400 people in
his caseload.
Some of them are stable.
You see them once every three months.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think of what else would
be helpful with the networking.
Yeah.
I guess I was curious with the insurance,
like am I going to like organically get
clients who are just checking their insurance and
I pop up versus like how intentional do
(15:19):
I need to be with that?
You need to be intentional because like a
huge city like New York, you know, like
you've, there were so many people probably who
take that insurance.
So as such a major employer.
So I would, you still need to be
intentional with it in terms of staying on
top of your marketing, those kinds of things.
You will get some randos who aren't struggling
(15:40):
with grief, who find you on their insurance
listing and get in touch.
And then you can decide based on what
they say.
If you want to take them on, you
don't have to have all niche people.
You don't have to have all ideal clients.
If they feel like somebody you'd enjoy working
with and you'd do good work with, then
take them on.
And if no to either of those things,
then no.
Refer them on.
(16:01):
Okay.
Okay.
And then any other suggestions of who to
be networking with in addition to circling back
to the people I've met with and enjoy
talking to and connected with?
Yeah, I mean, I made like a monster,
a list of, you know, every idea I
had, and, you know, even had lots of
(16:23):
like idea meetings with friends of, you know,
different directions to go in.
It just seems like there's so many resources
out there.
It's hard to kind of crack through or
know like where it's going to fall.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the psychiatrists that you
already have a relationship with, like really, really
maintaining and building those relationships since you genuinely
(16:44):
like them, like that's probably the best route
to go.
You can still do PCP offices, but I
would find the ones not owned by the
hospital system, which- Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I'm thinking.
I was like so fixated on that being
my next step, but I think I can
pivot and find a different route.
And then I'm wondering, you know, the hospitals
(17:05):
own so many PCP practices as well, and
they probably have their own systems.
So maybe more like independent practices.
Yeah.
I think you'd get a lot farther there.
Yeah.
I had this other idea because I am
working part-time NYU at the university in
the counseling center.
So I was like, perfect, I'll find clients
(17:27):
there.
But once I started, I found out that
it's a conflict of interest to work with
students while I'm there.
And that also, I was like, should I
reach out to other universities or are they
going to have like, you know, every place
has their own systems, but I haven't really
spent, put effort in there to universities.
(17:48):
Yeah.
I think that's a brilliant idea is having
worked in the university system as well, because
these are your favorite age people, right?
Or close.
So the way, and you know this probably
from your experience, so many university counseling centers
get full and stay full and the waiting
lists are awful.
And there's a triage system and things like
(18:10):
that, that it might not work well for
your people to try to go through those
systems.
And if their surviving parent or something like
that happens to be insured by the biggest
insurer in the state then, or in the
city, then that works for them as well.
Or it's private pay because when somebody loses
a partner and they want to make sure
their kid's okay, who's like off of college
(18:31):
trying to make it happen while they're heartbroken,
then often if parents can't afford it, they
will.
And that also brought up another question for
me of, do I put in effort to
try to market where the parents are interfacing
and then where's that?
(18:52):
I mean, you're gonna be where, you've got
SEO rolling.
So I think that the kids, because they're
older and they're more, slightly more internet savvy,
are likely to find you before the parents.
I think if the parents are finding you,
you might be talking about kind of a
more acute presentation of the kid, which may
or may not be your ideal.
(19:13):
But I think the other concern would be
where the parents are besides Google might make
them try to send you like children, which
I know is not.
Yeah, I've had a mix of the adult
child reaching out and sometimes the parents, I
do honestly think probably like every therapy referral,
it usually works out best when the individual's
(19:34):
reaching out versus somebody else.
So that's my preference.
Do you think if I did do social,
is there another strategy I could or should
drop just in terms of...
Well, you're not doing the SEO yourself, right?
Like you've hired it out.
So I think like it still definitely counts
(19:55):
as a marketing strategy, but it's not one
that's eating your time.
Are you writing the blogs yourself and they're
SEOing it?
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
I think that you could count it.
I might just from an efficiency standpoint suggest
maybe you spend the next month with the
psychiatrists, like really focusing on the psychiatrists that
you know, you can also ask them like,
(20:17):
who are some other prescribers in town that
you like?
Yeah.
And would you be willing to email introduce
us?
Okay.
So I would spend the next month working
on psychiatrists and university counseling centers.
And then if you're like, okay, I'm not
getting the traction I expected, which often with
networking, there's a lag.
(20:37):
Yeah.
Then maybe consider social and hop in the
Facebook group and we can kind of talk
through some ideas for social, make that really
valuable and also not super time consuming.
Yeah, that sounds like a good plan focusing
on the psychiatrists.
I already know and I'm comfortable talking to
other universities and really around the state.
(21:01):
I'm like, so like focused on the city,
but I wanna think about around the state
and yeah, if the psychiatrists have other prescribers
that they can connect me to.
Okay.
I'd really go hard.
There's so many universities in New York, like
not just the city, but the whole state.
(21:22):
Yeah.
I'd go hard on those counseling centers because
they need you, flat out.
They've got your people.
I know so many of them have in
-house counseling, but it seems like to be
the norm that they're short term.
Right.
Short term and often wait-listed.
So it's just like, there's just too much
demand and not enough supply.
(21:44):
Okay.
Trying to think of how to best use
the rest of my precious minutes here.
And I guess, unless like while we're talking,
you're like, okay, you think you need to
focus on networking and you suggested social, if
there's any other like gaping where I need
(22:04):
to focus, but it's actually something else.
No, I think you're on the right track.
I think you've been really thoughtful about it.
I'm not like, ooh, Natalie is really like
not seeing this thing right in front of
her face or she's like messing up in
this book.
I just flat out tell you.
Okay, yeah.
I mean, yeah, and like Lindsay was so
helpful.
She's like, I have no doubts that you're
(22:25):
gonna be where you want to be, which
is helpful to hear over and over.
Yeah.
But it's also been four months and there's
one new client, like.
Yeah.
Yeah, just like, if I had a few
more, I would be like, okay, it's like
trending in that direction.
And the new client just popped up like
this week.
So that's exciting and happy to celebrate that,
(22:46):
but.
And also to normalize, because I think there
are people who pop off real quick and
that's fantastic.
That's what we hope for everyone.
And then there's, I mean, my first full
-time practice in Seattle, I didn't get a
single call until, I think it was three
and a half months in.
And I was like busting ass every day.
I was really working hard and then it
was still slow, but I don't remember if
(23:08):
it was three and a half or two
and a half months in, but then by
like month five, I think, I was like
nearly full or full.
I was already making way more than I'd
made in an agency.
Okay.
Yeah, it's helpful to hear because I had,
I was like six months kind of stuck
in my head and then I'm like, well,
there's no way that's even close to that.
Yeah.
(23:29):
And as long as it's trending, even if
slowly, fine.
Yeah.
So I'd just keep your head down for
the next month and work on those two
networking opportunities.
Okay.
And be annoying if you need to be
annoying with like the university counseling centers and
ask about their case managers and who provides
(23:51):
the referrals and those kinds of things for
longer term counseling, maybe even just frame it
for longer term counseling so that they know
you're not trying to coach their short termers.
Okay.
Thank you.
This is really helpful in helping me narrow
where I need to go next.
Awesome.
Well, yeah, let us know in the Facebook
group how it's going.
I'm in there.
Yes, I will.
Thank you so much.
(24:12):
I really appreciate it.
Do it.
Take care.
Talk to you later, bye.
Bye.
Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant
with POWBOX.
Use code ABUNDANT to get POWBOX for less
than a hundred dollars your first year at
p-a-u-b-o-x.com.
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
(24:33):
Therapy Notes is the way to go.
Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo
code ABUNDANT for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow, rate and
review, but I really want you to share
(24:54):
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
(00:21):
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, onto the show.
Some of y'all aren't sending HIPAA-compliant
email, and it's a problem.
Even if you're paying for a business Google
(00:43):
Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your
emails still aren't 100% compliant.
That's where Powerbox comes in.
You can connect Powerbox to your Google Workspace
or Microsoft 365 email one time, and you're
completely covered.
No one has to sign into portals.
It sends and it shows up like any
other email.
Behind the scenes, Powerbox software checks the security
(01:04):
settings of the recipient and ensures that the
email is sent properly, so you're not violating
HIPAA in the ways you may accidentally be
now.
I know, HIPAA isn't sexy, but we don't
avoid compliance in an abundant practice.
We check the boxes we need to check,
and this is the easiest way to do
that with email.
Check out my friends at powerbox.com.
That's P-A-U-B-O-X.
(01:25):
Use code ABUNDANT to get $250 off your
first year of Powerbox that makes it less
than $100 for your first year.
Again, that's P-A-U-B-O-X
.com.
Use code ABUNDANT.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
for years.
I could talk about the features and the
benefits in my sleep, but there are a
couple of things I want you to know
(01:45):
about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it
into an ad script.
First is that they actually care if you
like their platform.
They don't only make themselves available on the
phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your
hair out when you get stuck.
They also take member suggestions and implement those
that there's client demand for.
Like therapy search, an included listing service that
helps clients find you, internal and external secure
(02:07):
messaging, clinical outcome measures to keep an eye
on how your clients are progressing, a super
smooth super bill process, real-time eligibility to
check on your client's insurance.
In my conversations with the employees there at
all levels, they all really believe in their
product and they want you to love it
too.
Second, they are proudly independently owned.
Why should you care about that?
(02:29):
Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved,
the focus shifts from making customers happy to
making investors happy.
Prices go way up, innovation plateaus, making more
money with as little output as possible becomes
the number one focus.
With over 100,000 therapists using their platform,
they've been able to stay incredibly successful and
they don't have to sacrifice your experience to
(02:50):
stay there.
You can try two months free at therapynotes
.com with the coupon code ABUNDANT.
Hi Allison.
How are you?
Hi, I'm doing okay, how are you?
I'm all right also, yeah.
Good to see you, good to meet with
you.
What would be most helpful?
Yeah, so yeah, I did the three month
(03:13):
mentorship which was wonderful, you know, so many
tangible next steps and I feel like I've
made a lot of progress in terms of
setting my niche, so grief and loss with
young adults, my website, everything is all set
up, even my PLLC, everything is set up
and ready to go.
(03:34):
Where I'm stuck now is, so it's been,
let's say almost four months since I started
and you know, the setup did take at
least a couple of months is getting clients.
So I think networking is probably the area
that I could use the most help with
because I, so I have my website, I
(03:56):
have my psychology today, not much is coming
through but you know, that's that, I guess.
And my SEO started in February along with
blogging.
So, you know, they've only been running for
a little bit and you know, those are
happening.
So networking, I feel like is where I
(04:16):
can, you know, when I have downtime, like
where I can put my most effort and
I'm just trying to figure out, I really
go in circles about where to put my
effort and how to message it when I
do speak with someone.
Okay, perfect, love it.
Yeah, I can't remember, because it's been a
(04:37):
long time since we talked, I guess four
months since we talked.
How do you feel about social media?
Is that a hard pass for you?
It is a hard pass, but if and
when I get to a point where I'm
thriving and can hire an intern, I would
outsource it.
I'm not against it to that degree.
(04:58):
I just don't, I don't think I have
the capacity to add that on myself and
to be creative enough and just give it
what it needs.
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
I ask because I just think about like
young adults going through grief, looking for some
sort of, you're not aloneness.
And frankly, I mean, even you asking the
question is helpful because I sort of put
(05:19):
social media out of my head at the
beginning.
And one networking strategy that has brought my
like only new client is a friend suggested
I reach out to, you know, there's a
bunch of just like local neighborhood Instagram groups
of just like new restaurants, blah, blah, blah
in a neighborhood.
(05:40):
And I paid them a little bit of
money to host my practice with a link
to my website.
You know, obviously I don't have social and
I got a client from that.
Amazing.
And so I was like, oh, duh, where
is someone who's 25?
Like looking like they're obviously like on Instagram.
So I do feel like there is something
there that I'm not really tapping into, yeah.
(06:02):
Yeah, and I mean, like you can only
do what you have the capacity for.
Yeah.
So it's either assessing like, is that an
accurate estimate of your capacity?
Yeah.
And if it is, then like F it,
like you don't need to do social right
now, but if it is something that you
could take on, I think that it could
be really beneficial if you were creating content,
(06:23):
your ideal clients really care about, which you
would be uniquely qualified to do based on
your own experience, personally and professionally.
Yeah.
I think it's worth circling back on at
some point, maybe soon.
So in terms of networking, another thing I
(06:44):
should mention is ideally I would be out
of network.
I did sign up for one insurance, which
I've never accepted insurance before.
I don't even know how to pull out
any of the paperwork, but I recently got
empaneled with one plan in New York because
it's for a hospital that I used to
work at and they reimbursed like pretty high.
(07:05):
And I felt like I had enough contacts
that it would be worth it.
And that recently all just went through like
a couple of weeks ago.
So that's also on my mind of, I
held off on networking to certain people that
I know at this hospital, because I was
like, let me wait until I get empaneled
and then I can share this update.
Which then took another turn because I networked
(07:30):
with someone with like a high like behavioral
health position at the hospital who then informed,
I said, can I pick your brain about
how to go about contacting, this hospital owns
practices all over the city.
And she informed me that all of these
PCPs are informed that they should not respond
(07:52):
to therapists, individual therapists who reach out to
network with them, that they need to redirect
to hospital, they have contracts with different mental
health clinics.
And that didn't really cross my mind before,
because I was like, I have this whole
plan, I'm gonna reach out to all these
(08:13):
PCPs.
And now I'm like, I don't wanna waste
my time or do I reach out and
say, I don't take insurance and that way,
I'm going a different route than if I
tell them I take their insurance and they
say, no, we can't work with you.
Anyway, I'm a little mixed up in where
to put my efforts next.
(08:35):
This insurance without insurance, if I'm networking in
regards to my insurance, do I mention the
niche?
So all of that.
So is it a kind of insurance like
Kaiser where everybody who sees this doctor has
the same insurance or is it?
(08:55):
So if you work for this hospital, Mount
Sinai, which owns seven hospitals in the city
and probably a billion primary care clinics at
this point.
So if you work for them, this is
insurance you would sign up for if you
wanted employer sponsored insurance.
Got it, okay.
And it's one of the biggest private employers
in New York City.
Yeah.
Got it, okay.
(09:16):
So you take the insurance of the doctors
and of the nurses and of the, okay.
Yeah.
And some of their patients have this insurance
and some of them don't.
Right, I assume maybe many of them don't,
but yeah.
Yeah, okay, cool.
So they are going to refer in-house
because that's their business model, right?
But they're not gonna refer their colleague in
(09:38):
-house.
They're not gonna refer their son in-house.
So you would not have access to their
patients, but you would potentially have access to
their social circles, which is you're not gonna
be able to sit down with them and
talk to them because they've got systems in
place to prevent that.
(09:58):
But it's one of those things where like,
if you can just get in, it's kind
of like people who get in with a
school counselor at one school, all of a
sudden it kind of like cracks it open
for them and they can meet with others,
whereas that first one is really hard.
So I might, because they have all these
systems in place, I might put this on
the shelf for now.
There are so many therapists, we talked about
this, I think, like there are so many
(10:19):
of us who don't know what the hell
we're doing with grief and we don't really
feel competent and confident treating it.
And we feel helpless in the face of
it.
And you can relieve that pain for therapists
by being a great referral source for them.
So I think networking with other therapists, networking
with other grief therapists who are likely full.
(10:42):
Yeah, and just to add a little here,
so in my networking journey, which has been
like two months, I started with everybody I
know professionally.
So all my therapist friends know what I'm
up to.
I reached out to, I met with a
(11:02):
bunch of psychiatrists I used to work with
a couple of jobs ago at another hospital.
I would say in terms of like the
therapists I know, most people don't seem like
they're in a position where they're referring out,
like no one's super full, or if they
found a private pay client, I think they
would wanna keep for themselves.
(11:24):
The psychiatrists, I thought the meetings went well,
because there were people I already knew, a
lot of it was kind of catch up
and schmoozy with a mix of us both
saying we would refer to each other, but
they haven't referred to me.
And I don't know if they were just
being polite or just the right person hasn't
come across, or they already have their referral
(11:46):
systems in place.
I met with a therapist who, a grief
therapist, grief counselor, who I didn't know, and
we had an amazing conversation, but she also
shared at the end that she's not full
and wouldn't be like referring out.
(12:06):
A few others just didn't respond.
So I guess like any suggestions for next
steps with like who to reach out to
and find these grief therapists, did a Google
search, did psychology today, Yeah, it depends on,
well, I'm thinking about my first question, I
(12:28):
will get to your question, but I have
a question about how have you followed up
with these psychiatrists?
That's another question I have too, because I
didn't know where to, I'm still not sure
where to put my efforts.
So, do I follow up with people who
haven't referred to me yet?
So I made sure to follow up with
each of them, so good to meet with
you, a little like something that we laughed
(12:51):
about or connected on, would love to meet
again.
And then I sort of fell off from
there because I was like, were they just
being polite and they have no intention of
referring to me and like, why would I
keep asking this person for coffee?
And then I should go somewhere, should I
put those efforts somewhere else?
(13:13):
So yeah, yeah, curious to hear what you
think in terms of the follow-up.
Mm-hmm, so the insecurity that's leading you
to worry about that, I don't want it
taking any sort of driver's seat.
Okay.
Let's assume they meant what they said, like
they're grown adults.
Let's just assume they meant what they said
and that they would like to refer to
(13:33):
you, but you're back on their radar after
a bunch of time off, they have people
they're used to referring to, they probably just
forgot about you.
Yeah.
Because they're just in their flow.
So it could go a couple of different
ways.
You could let them know, hey, I got
empaneled on this major thing.
If any of your clients need to use
(13:53):
insurance for weekly therapy, it could really help
them out, especially if these are private pay
psychiatrists.
So you can just be like, I still
have a few spots left.
So let them know you have availability, but
it's not like a gaping hole in your
schedule.
I still have a few spots left and
maybe then make the offer of like, would
love to grab coffee again sometime if you're
(14:15):
interested for the people that you just really
enjoy talking to.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's helpful.
The insurance update feels like concrete enough to
creep back in.
Because there are probably so many people on
their caseload who have that insurance that are
going outside of the in-house people because
like who wants to see the therapist down
(14:37):
the hall?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like there is a lot of
hospital employees who don't want to go in
-house and I don't know how to reach
them, but I think that that does give
me an up there.
Okay.
Yeah, because I did like talk and some
of these psychiatrists said that for med management
they see like hundreds of people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My husband had a psychiatric practice and I
(14:58):
think he had three or 400 people in
his caseload.
Some of them are stable.
You see them once every three months.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think of what else would
be helpful with the networking.
Yeah.
I guess I was curious with the insurance,
like am I going to like organically get
clients who are just checking their insurance and
I pop up versus like how intentional do
(15:19):
I need to be with that?
You need to be intentional because like a
huge city like New York, you know, like
you've, there were so many people probably who
take that insurance.
So as such a major employer.
So I would, you still need to be
intentional with it in terms of staying on
top of your marketing, those kinds of things.
You will get some randos who aren't struggling
(15:40):
with grief, who find you on their insurance
listing and get in touch.
And then you can decide based on what
they say.
If you want to take them on, you
don't have to have all niche people.
You don't have to have all ideal clients.
If they feel like somebody you'd enjoy working
with and you'd do good work with, then
take them on.
And if no to either of those things,
then no.
Refer them on.
(16:01):
Okay.
Okay.
And then any other suggestions of who to
be networking with in addition to circling back
to the people I've met with and enjoy
talking to and connected with?
Yeah, I mean, I made like a monster,
a list of, you know, every idea I
had, and, you know, even had lots of
(16:23):
like idea meetings with friends of, you know,
different directions to go in.
It just seems like there's so many resources
out there.
It's hard to kind of crack through or
know like where it's going to fall.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the psychiatrists that you
already have a relationship with, like really, really
maintaining and building those relationships since you genuinely
(16:44):
like them, like that's probably the best route
to go.
You can still do PCP offices, but I
would find the ones not owned by the
hospital system, which- Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I'm thinking.
I was like so fixated on that being
my next step, but I think I can
pivot and find a different route.
And then I'm wondering, you know, the hospitals
(17:05):
own so many PCP practices as well, and
they probably have their own systems.
So maybe more like independent practices.
Yeah.
I think you'd get a lot farther there.
Yeah.
I had this other idea because I am
working part-time NYU at the university in
the counseling center.
So I was like, perfect, I'll find clients
(17:27):
there.
But once I started, I found out that
it's a conflict of interest to work with
students while I'm there.
And that also, I was like, should I
reach out to other universities or are they
going to have like, you know, every place
has their own systems, but I haven't really
spent, put effort in there to universities.
(17:48):
Yeah.
I think that's a brilliant idea is having
worked in the university system as well, because
these are your favorite age people, right?
Or close.
So the way, and you know this probably
from your experience, so many university counseling centers
get full and stay full and the waiting
lists are awful.
And there's a triage system and things like
(18:10):
that, that it might not work well for
your people to try to go through those
systems.
And if their surviving parent or something like
that happens to be insured by the biggest
insurer in the state then, or in the
city, then that works for them as well.
Or it's private pay because when somebody loses
a partner and they want to make sure
their kid's okay, who's like off of college
(18:31):
trying to make it happen while they're heartbroken,
then often if parents can't afford it, they
will.
And that also brought up another question for
me of, do I put in effort to
try to market where the parents are interfacing
and then where's that?
(18:52):
I mean, you're gonna be where, you've got
SEO rolling.
So I think that the kids, because they're
older and they're more, slightly more internet savvy,
are likely to find you before the parents.
I think if the parents are finding you,
you might be talking about kind of a
more acute presentation of the kid, which may
or may not be your ideal.
(19:13):
But I think the other concern would be
where the parents are besides Google might make
them try to send you like children, which
I know is not.
Yeah, I've had a mix of the adult
child reaching out and sometimes the parents, I
do honestly think probably like every therapy referral,
it usually works out best when the individual's
(19:34):
reaching out versus somebody else.
So that's my preference.
Do you think if I did do social,
is there another strategy I could or should
drop just in terms of...
Well, you're not doing the SEO yourself, right?
Like you've hired it out.
So I think like it still definitely counts
(19:55):
as a marketing strategy, but it's not one
that's eating your time.
Are you writing the blogs yourself and they're
SEOing it?
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
I think that you could count it.
I might just from an efficiency standpoint suggest
maybe you spend the next month with the
psychiatrists, like really focusing on the psychiatrists that
you know, you can also ask them like,
(20:17):
who are some other prescribers in town that
you like?
Yeah.
And would you be willing to email introduce
us?
Okay.
So I would spend the next month working
on psychiatrists and university counseling centers.
And then if you're like, okay, I'm not
getting the traction I expected, which often with
networking, there's a lag.
(20:37):
Yeah.
Then maybe consider social and hop in the
Facebook group and we can kind of talk
through some ideas for social, make that really
valuable and also not super time consuming.
Yeah, that sounds like a good plan focusing
on the psychiatrists.
I already know and I'm comfortable talking to
other universities and really around the state.
(21:01):
I'm like, so like focused on the city,
but I wanna think about around the state
and yeah, if the psychiatrists have other prescribers
that they can connect me to.
Okay.
I'd really go hard.
There's so many universities in New York, like
not just the city, but the whole state.
(21:22):
Yeah.
I'd go hard on those counseling centers because
they need you, flat out.
They've got your people.
I know so many of them have in
-house counseling, but it seems like to be
the norm that they're short term.
Right.
Short term and often wait-listed.
So it's just like, there's just too much
demand and not enough supply.
(21:44):
Okay.
Trying to think of how to best use
the rest of my precious minutes here.
And I guess, unless like while we're talking,
you're like, okay, you think you need to
focus on networking and you suggested social, if
there's any other like gaping where I need
(22:04):
to focus, but it's actually something else.
No, I think you're on the right track.
I think you've been really thoughtful about it.
I'm not like, ooh, Natalie is really like
not seeing this thing right in front of
her face or she's like messing up in
this book.
I just flat out tell you.
Okay, yeah.
I mean, yeah, and like Lindsay was so
helpful.
She's like, I have no doubts that you're
(22:25):
gonna be where you want to be, which
is helpful to hear over and over.
Yeah.
But it's also been four months and there's
one new client, like.
Yeah.
Yeah, just like, if I had a few
more, I would be like, okay, it's like
trending in that direction.
And the new client just popped up like
this week.
So that's exciting and happy to celebrate that,
(22:46):
but.
And also to normalize, because I think there
are people who pop off real quick and
that's fantastic.
That's what we hope for everyone.
And then there's, I mean, my first full
-time practice in Seattle, I didn't get a
single call until, I think it was three
and a half months in.
And I was like busting ass every day.
I was really working hard and then it
was still slow, but I don't remember if
(23:08):
it was three and a half or two
and a half months in, but then by
like month five, I think, I was like
nearly full or full.
I was already making way more than I'd
made in an agency.
Okay.
Yeah, it's helpful to hear because I had,
I was like six months kind of stuck
in my head and then I'm like, well,
there's no way that's even close to that.
Yeah.
(23:29):
And as long as it's trending, even if
slowly, fine.
Yeah.
So I'd just keep your head down for
the next month and work on those two
networking opportunities.
Okay.
And be annoying if you need to be
annoying with like the university counseling centers and
ask about their case managers and who provides
(23:51):
the referrals and those kinds of things for
longer term counseling, maybe even just frame it
for longer term counseling so that they know
you're not trying to coach their short termers.
Okay.
Thank you.
This is really helpful in helping me narrow
where I need to go next.
Awesome.
Well, yeah, let us know in the Facebook
group how it's going.
I'm in there.
Yes, I will.
Thank you so much.
(24:12):
I really appreciate it.
Do it.
Take care.
Talk to you later, bye.
Bye.
Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant
with POWBOX.
Use code ABUNDANT to get POWBOX for less
than a hundred dollars your first year at
p-a-u-b-o-x.com.
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
(24:33):
Therapy Notes is the way to go.
Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo
code ABUNDANT for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow, rate and
review, but I really want you to share
(24:54):
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.