Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
(00:26):
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, on to the show.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
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I could talk about the features and the
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(00:47):
into an ad script.
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They also take member suggestions and implement those
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an included listing service that helps clients find
you, internal and external secure messaging, clinical outcome
(01:08):
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(01:30):
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Kate?
Hi.
What would be most helpful today?
Yeah, yeah, um, I kind of just, you're
probably getting this a lot, but just want
to know that I'm on the right track
right now.
Um, I just, I don't know if the
lack in referrals or, uh, inquiries converting to
(02:17):
actual clients is because of something on my
end or just like the time right now,
you know, so yeah.
Yeah.
So just some of that.
So, um, I started my practice on my
own last April, a year ago before that
I was in a group practice and I
got to bring some of those clients with
me.
So I did not start from scratch, but
yeah, started my own practice then.
And my niche then was, um, like women
(02:39):
and adult women with people, pleasing and anxiety,
um, and doing EMDR with that.
And, you know, it was kind of a
slow summer last building up a little bit,
but I didn't start from scratch.
Thankfully having those clients with me, the fall
was really busy.
And then like December was a little less
busy and I took time off for the
holidays.
And then since January, it's been, um, like
(03:00):
scary slow.
So, um, a lot of clients graduated and
met their goals and that's great.
And like January, February, but no one has
been coming to replace them.
So, um, or maybe like some consultations, but
they haven't, you know, converted, um, there've been
a good fit.
So, um, and I have, uh, so I'm
(03:23):
seeing like eight to 12 a week, basically
since February.
And I need to be at like 15
a week to even like breathe financially and
20 is my goal to thrive.
Okay.
I'm on one insurance and it pays pretty
well, honestly, but I'm terrified of clawbacks and
audits and that hasn't really happened yet, but
really scared of that.
So I'd love to be off that eventually,
but not getting any private pay people right
(03:46):
now.
I have like two or three out of
the eight to 12 and they came to
me because I thought they thought I took
like an off branch of their insurance and
I didn't and they stuck around anyways.
So yeah, I don't really want to leave
insurance until my marketing is where it needs
to be to be able to get in
private pay clients.
So for some reason, I'm only bringing in
(04:07):
people that happen to take that one insurance
I have.
And then it's like, would they have reached
out if I hadn't been taking the insurance,
you know?
So I'm always wondering that, but, and I've
also changed my niche a couple of times
this year and I feel like I've finally
fallen on what I want it to be.
But I realized earlier this year that I
wanted to do like recent event traumas with
EMDR, felt like that was too broad.
(04:28):
So then I dove in more to recent
traumatic grief and loss.
Again, felt like that was a little bit
too broad.
I've had clients come in with both of
those things, recent loss or traumatic event, and
I've loved working with it.
So, but both of those things, I felt
like were kind of too broad.
So recently, I've been networking with, because of
(04:51):
those two niches, a lot of like perinatal
providers and postpartum and all of that.
And it kind of has like made me
realize I want to do a lot with
the like perinatal, postpartum like that, because it's
a it's a mix of grief and loss
and recent trauma.
So my new niche right now is women
(05:13):
who've experienced a traumatic birth experience.
So I feel like that's pretty niche down.
I mean, I don't want to go further
into like just miscarriages, just the birth experience
itself or, you know, but in general, yeah,
just traumatic birth is what I'm at now.
And I do have a kind of like
a sub niche on my website under services
page of like just a traumatic perinatal experience,
(05:35):
whether that's the miss, you know, a loss
during the perinatal time, but my homepage is
mainly just traumatic birth experience, traumatic labor and
delivery and all that.
So that's where I'm at now.
So I have only been with that niche
for like three weeks.
So I guess it is pretty new.
But all this year, though, as I've been
doing, whether it's recent events or grief and
(05:56):
loss, a lot of networking, a lot of
all of that stuff.
And I still am.
But I am at a new niche right
now just in the past couple weeks.
So either way, though, I has not really
brought in anyone, any of those niches or
networking that I've been doing very much.
So I guess I'm just I mean, I'm
doing a lot of the trying to make
sure I follow up with people, like not
(06:18):
just reaching out one and done, you know,
right.
I've created a couple of my own consultation
groups I was already into.
I mean, they all only meet like once
a month.
I was into already of other people invited
me to a while ago, and then I
created an in-person one with four other
therapists or four of us total.
And we're all like the beginning stages of
our practice.
So that's been really nice.
(06:39):
And I made another one with a couple
other therapists who are a bit further along
in their practices than I am.
So that's been really great.
And I'm fully virtual.
So I really like the connection.
Like I've genuinely enjoyed like I make sure
I reach back out to people that I
actually enjoy talking to and could be friends
with.
So that's been so yeah, that's been good.
But and I've been meeting with people kind
(07:00):
of, you know, outside the box of just
other therapists, or psychiatrists I've met with.
When I was doing grief and loss more.
So I met with like some funeral home
directors, I've gone into some concierge doctor's offices
in person dropped off like coffee and my
info, only got to talk to the front
desk staff and never heard back from the
actual actual doctors.
(07:20):
But I've met with yoga and Reiki instructors
recently some doulas.
I'm I reached out to some birth centers
and they're getting back to me.
So lots of that with the perinatal stuff,
a lot of psychiatrists that work with the
perinatal population.
A lot of in person stuff, though, thankfully,
I'm able to do.
I feel like in person just it's a
lot, but I feel like I connect better
(07:42):
with the providers when I see them compared
to virtual.
So yeah, I've been doing a lot of
that still some other places to reach out
to.
But Facebook groups like mom Facebook groups, I
feel like I got a couple consultation requests
a few weeks ago.
From there, they haven't panned out.
But I I'm still researching more of those.
(08:02):
There's a couple that you have to like
pay to advertise on.
So I'm doing doing some of that.
But yeah, so I don't know if there's
if there's other ideas that you would have
or if it's one of those things where
I'm doing the right stuff.
I just have to wait.
It's just hard to know like, you know,
what if I'm not doing the right things,
I won't know until six months from now,
and then I'll be wasting all my time
(08:23):
that I've been doing these things, and they're
not the right things to do.
I don't know.
Yeah, well, I think part of it is
when you change your niche, if you're not
already established, when you change your niche, it's
like hitting reset.
Yeah.
So you've got a three week old practice
right now.
And that's like, you know, you do have
some clients.
So that's good.
It's just getting the word out with this
(08:43):
very different niche than where you've been in.
And your niche starting out in private practice
was the kind of niche where a therapist
who has room in their practice will take
that person.
Right.
I would take the person in your initial,
your initial niche, but I would not take
the person in your current niche.
I'd be like, you need a specialist.
So I think that there's a really beautiful
(09:05):
specificity to your niche now.
The other niche is great.
It's just people are going to gobble them
up too.
So I would say also networking with just
other therapists who are not perinatal therapists.
I would also, your website, has it been
completely retooled?
(09:25):
Yeah.
Okay.
Good, good.
And how were people finding you before?
Like in the fall when things were busy
and new people were coming in, how were
people finding you?
Yeah.
So online directory, I was with psychology today
for a while.
So I had gotten a lot through there,
but it dried up like, again, late fall.
(09:46):
And just like, it's not, so I canceled
it recently.
And I went with Therapy Den and Therapist
Tribe instead, just recently.
So it used to be that, but again,
that dried up really quick.
And then other therapists were finding me.
So like someone who had a talk therapist
or art therapist or therapist for OCD was
(10:06):
finding me so that their client could do
EMDR with a specific trauma.
So it wasn't based in like, whether it
was a recent trauma or birth trauma, just
like kind of a general, you know, whatever
it may be, a specific trauma.
And they found me.
But I think everyone who, that's happened a
lot, but every therapist who's done that and
referred a client to me, they've been like,
(10:28):
oh yeah, I saw you took Blue Cross
Blue Shield.
So it was because I take that.
So it's like, well, would they have referred
to me if I didn't?
I don't know.
Yeah.
And right now you want to get your
feet under you marketing-wise anyway.
So it wouldn't, if things are slow like
this, now's not the best time to get
off insurance.
Yeah.
So let's, let's leave that as like a
little safety net.
And then once you feel like, okay, things
(10:49):
are, like people are coming in at a
regular reliable clip, then it's a good time
really to consider getting off insurance.
And are you, do you live in a
place where Blue Cross Blue Shield is like
very common?
Yeah.
Okay.
Good.
Yeah.
So then that probably also means there are
lots of other therapists who take it.
And so it's like being found probably, like
(11:12):
all it sounds like it's about being found
and you're doing a lot of good networking
that helps with that.
Yeah.
I'm in an area where I'm in Northern
Virginia, just outside DC.
So I'm in an area where private pay
is pretty popular, but if someone's with an
insurance, Blue Cross Blue Shield's a big one
here.
So, and a year ago, I knew I
(11:33):
wasn't, I didn't move here until August, but
I knew I'd be moving here when I
started my practice last April.
So I was looking around at therapists here
and what they charged private pay.
And it was like $250 at least.
So I was like, oh, okay.
I'll, you know, so I didn't start with
that.
I've very much, I've gone back and forth
a lot with the private pay rate.
The anyone, the highest rate I'm charging right
(11:54):
now for private pay people, I have a
couple at like $190.
But I, this January I upped it.
I, yeah, up the new for new people
coming in that are private pay to $250.
But I don't have anyone at that yet,
but I will say when I was looking
around in like earlier this year, again, at
what therapists were charging, everyone is charging like
under $200.
And I don't know if people lowered their
(12:16):
prices or if I'm just finding different people
than I saw a year ago when I
looked, because a year ago it was like
super up there.
And now when I look around, it's under
200.
So I don't know what that means, but.
Yeah.
I doubt that it's people lowering their prices
because it's like, once you have a caseload
of people paying, it'd feel really weird to
lower it for newbies.
So I think it's probably like so many
(12:38):
more people have gone into private practice and
like on psychology today, for instance, like the
timing of it kind of tanking for you
makes sense to me.
Cause that's when the other, like the big
therapy tech started creating all these psychology today
profiles and bumping other people out.
So that makes sense.
(12:58):
And it isn't anything you did.
It's just big therapy techs trying to take
over and we're not going to let them.
So, cause so like our clients don't want
to go there.
They're not going to them.
So, yeah.
Okay.
So it's, I'm hearing good networking.
Dual lids are great for your current niche.
(13:18):
I would definitely get in with some OB
guides, some midwives.
And honestly, some of them may want to
see you because it would be extremely traumatic
as a provider.
Even when you've lived through many of them,
there are still some that are going to
get stuck, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've wondered if I could make that,
(13:40):
I mean, I don't want it to do
any harm to me with my niche and
whatever it may be.
But I wonder if I can make that
a sub thing, like a service page under
my service pages, like people who work with
birth trauma.
Someone did ask me, they haven't reached out
for services, but they said something like, do
you work with people who work with birth
trauma?
And I was like, yeah, sure.
So.
(14:00):
Hey therapists, quick interruption before we dive back
in.
If your practice has been quieter than usual
lately, or it feels like what used to
work just isn't anymore, I've got something for
you.
I'm hosting a free live training called filling
your practice in challenging economy.
The title kind of explains it.
We'll cover why the landscape has shifted, how
(14:21):
big therapy tech is changing the game, and
most importantly, what still works to get great
fit clients right now.
I'd love for you to join me live
on July 14th at one Eastern.
Bring your questions.
I'm leaving some time for Q and A.
Again, that's July 14th at one Eastern.
You can save your spot by hitting the
link in the show notes.
It's free.
It's live.
(14:41):
I can't wait to see you there.
Yeah.
And I, so I think having that sub
niche, like having a page devoted to that
would be really powerful when they ask, you
can be like, absolutely.
Here's a link to my page that talks
about how I work with folks.
And then it's like, Oh, you're not just
saying sugar.
You're saying you're like, absolutely.
I specialize in what you're struggling with.
(15:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I still need to do the OBGYNs and
midwives.
Um, I thought about doing like, and I
have a few people who have an in
with the hospitals around.
Um, so that could be helpful, but it's
so hard to get in with.
I even figured social workers that were, I
know they're social workers for like the NICUs
and getting with them.
(15:23):
I tried to call the other day and
got disconnected and, you know, so I, I
don't know, but I, I, I mean, that
might be a good one too.
So, yeah.
And it depends on what services they have
in house.
Cause they're not going to refer out if
they have any in house services.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, it's some, it's like, is that
a waste of time or not?
I don't know.
(15:44):
But birth centers, there's a couple around psychiatrists
I've met with that work specifically with postpartum
perinatal group, um, pelvic floor therapists.
I haven't reached out to yet, but I've
heard those are good.
Those are good ones to, to reach out
to people.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I need to do that.
Lactation consultants, um, yes.
(16:06):
I've, I've talked to a, a hypno birthing
place.
I've talked to someone that does like infant
massages.
Um, yeah.
So a lot of like outside the box,
you know, that I feel like would be
good to, to reach out to.
So again, it's only been like two weeks
and I know it takes time, but I
just want to make sure I'm doing the
right stuff.
So another good one would be cranial sacral
therapy for babies.
(16:28):
Okay.
And yeah, I think it's also the quality
of these conversations.
Like how are these conversations typically going?
Cause this is not, you know, this isn't
the therapist down the street.
How are you communicating your value to them?
Yeah.
It's been great.
Cause I feel like they've been asking and
really interested before I even say too much.
Typically they know what EMDR therapy is, the
(16:48):
other providers, but they would say like, how
does that work with the birth trauma?
What's the session look like, or what are
clients to see you?
What are they looking for?
So yeah, I feel like I'm able to
really good info.
And that's how I got into this niche
too, is cause I've just had people randomly
with either, you know, the perinatal birth traumas
reach out and I liked it.
So I'm able to, I have worked with
(17:10):
a couple of people and this is what
it's like.
So yeah, I feel like it's been good.
So I think about the docs that are
following those patients, like using the doc, I'm
seeing your patient template that's in the what
to say when course, cause that keeps you
on top of mind.
If you send every month, you send the
letter of like, I'm working with so-and
-so here's their diagnosis.
(17:31):
Here's how they're progressing.
Here's what we're still working on.
They see like, okay, progress is being made.
This person specializes in this.
And you can say at the end, like
happy to serve any more of your, your
patients who experienced birth trauma.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have not reached out to the doctors,
(17:52):
but I have reached out to again, and
most of those people on my caseload, they're
like talk therapist has referred them to me
for the EMDR. So I've reached out to
them, like they have another therapist or psychiatrist,
I'd reach out to them.
And it was cool.
Cause one of the client's therapists was, you
know, she was like so amazed after one
session, how the client was reacting afterwards.
So they wanted to meet and talk about
(18:12):
it.
And yeah, so that was great.
You're getting great results with people and that
matters a ton also.
And I think like, you know, if somebody's
on an antidepressant or if somebody is depending
on the potential injury, if they're being followed
by an OB guy, then it would make
sense to have them sign a release of
information so you can communicate with that person.
(18:35):
Cause you know, mind and body's not divorced.
They're not separate.
So.
Yes.
Yeah, definitely.
I should look into the, that's a good
way to get in with the OBs.
And I was curious too, like with, with
my other, when I was doing like recent
traumas and PTSD, like acute stuff and EMDR
with that, I was ranking pretty high on
(18:55):
Google.
Like I would do like the incognito search
and like, I was on the first page
for my area and I was not really
seeing results from it, but it was easy
to know, like, in my opinion, what to,
what keywords to use with all of that.
But now with this, I feel like there's
so much, like, I don't know what people
would be searching like postpartum support or help.
(19:16):
And again, I'm not really necessarily, that's the
other thing is the imposter syndrome of like,
I don't have kids myself and I don't
have any training in perinatal stuff and I'm
getting some, I'm planning to, but I don't
yet.
So I'm not the person that's going to
do long-term like, Oh, I'm just struggling
with postpartum, like the depression or even anxiety.
Like I would want them to see someone
else for that.
(19:37):
I'm doing the recent, even if it's not
recent, but the one-time event of the
birth trauma itself.
Right.
And I'm just curious what people are even
searching for that.
Yeah.
I mean, I think they know the term
birth trauma.
Okay.
Or traumatic birth or, um, you could go
into some of the birth traumas, you know,
like.
Yeah.
I've blanked on all of them now.
(19:58):
Could have told you at least some of
them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I've, I've Googled, like, I've seen
what could come up by just Googling like
birth trauma and then I'm like, well then
what birth trauma experienced therapy for birth trauma
near me, maybe just a mix of well,
and yeah, like fourth degree tear things like
(20:19):
that.
My friend had the one, why am I
blanking on what it's called?
Preeclampsia.
Yep.
Yep.
So just like therapy for preeclampsia or therapy
for, um, uh, you know, there's also also
all the traumatic birth where the mom was
fine, but the baby was not.
Yep.
Yep.
(20:39):
Or just to make you stay afterwards and
yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I can definitely get more specific.
I mean, I'm blog, I'm blogging every week
to like consistently use those words in there
too.
And yeah, all of that.
So yeah.
Okay.
And my heading or the main tagline on
my website, like the first thing people see
is therapy for women wanting to process and
(21:00):
heal from a traumatic birth so they can
enjoy time with their baby in the present
moment without being dragged back into the powerlessness
of the hospital room.
And I didn't, I was curious if that
sounded good or could be refined.
It's still a lot of words.
I want to cut that down on the
words and make it really clear.
I like every bit of imagery that you
put in there, but not as a tagline.
(21:20):
Okay.
It could just be simple like therapy for
traumatic birth, you know, like clear as powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I overthink it a lot and
I try to be like, well, what's the
thing to catch them?
You know, I think that's niche enough that
it doesn't even have to be a huge
thing to catch them.
They're going to see that and just, right.
Cause what catches them is the tagline of
(21:41):
like, oh, that's me.
And then the way you describe it afterwards
and you could have it kind of broken
down of like, like NICU stays of your
own physical healing as a mom concerned about
your baby's survival.
There's just so many different things in that
day to day experience.
(22:01):
That's such hell for people that when you
can talk about that clearly helps them, like
really helps them feel seen and known and
like, you know what you're doing.
Yeah, no, that's good.
I can definitely like break it down.
And yeah, make it less wordy.
I was reading it off to myself earlier
and I was like, it's kind of long
to say, ah, yeah, that makes sense.
(22:22):
And I would love for you to network
with every single perinatal mood disorder therapist out
there and saying like, I end up collaborating
with a lot of perinatal mood disorder therapists.
I don't treat perinatal mood disorders, but I
do basically time limited EMDR for birth trauma.
And that way they know you're not trying
to take their client.
Yeah.
You're just there to collude with them and
(22:44):
help.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I'm trying, I haven't really done this
on my web.
I have, I do have a separate, my
service pages are like, uh, one thing I
learned was to take off EMDR from like
the main tagline.
Cause I like, that's not what people are
necessarily looking for, but when that's what I
offer for the birth trauma, I think that's
been helpful.
So like the services are traumatic birth and
(23:06):
then perinatal grief and loss, and then EMDR
therapy at an adjunct EMDR therapy.
So like one page explains EMDR and one
page explains like what EMDR therapy is.
Cause I, I really do feel like the
work I'm doing is very adjunct.
I'm having a ton of people or not
a ton of people, the case is low,
but from what I have, people are being
referred to me and they're seeing another therapist
at the same time for time to work
(23:27):
with me.
And I really like that.
Cause I am wanting to do the very
specific.
And usually it's only like a few months
when they're with me, if it's a one
thing we're working on.
So I'm trying to see how to like,
if that should be added into my homepage
or how to add that in to be
like, this is a, I don't know, like
in an adjunct way, like I'm working, you
know, it's very time specific.
(23:48):
And I even offer 90 minutes that I
have in, in a person office one day
a week to do the 90 minutes.
I don't have anyone signed up for that
yet, but I'd love for people to advertise
it in a way to be like, this
can be, especially if you do 90 minutes
quicker thing.
And it's a, you know, and I don't
know how to, if I should even worry
about that right now, like adding that into
my website or not.
(24:09):
I don't know.
I don't know that I'd worry about that
right now, unless that's the only way you
want to do it.
Cause the whole, a confused mind says no.
We want to make it as clean and
crisp.
And I think about like the typical client
who's going to land on your website.
She's not looking for you while having a
therapist.
So I wouldn't put it on your homepage,
(24:29):
but I do like having a specialty page
that you can send other therapists.
Okay.
Yes.
So I do have that like as adjunct.
So, okay.
Yeah.
I feel like the other just mainly like
just the, the worried about the fact that
anyone who does reach out happens to be
on the one insurance that I take.
And it's just like, would they reached out
(24:51):
if I didn't take that?
And some of them throughout the past year
of my own having my practice, my private
pay clients are people who like thought I
took their insurance.
That's why they reached out, but then were
okay that I didn't.
It's kind of like, well, I don't want
to, you know, get off insurance because that's
how I've gotten some of my private pay
clients.
So it's just interesting.
(25:11):
I don't know how to go about like,
I don't know.
Yeah.
It's one of those things where your current
clients, most of them would probably stay with
you.
Yeah.
I think they would.
And I've, I've taught very much that most
of them would, but I I'm not getting
new ones.
Yeah.
That's why I want to make sure you've
got some consistency and referrals before you make
that leap because then it's just so much
(25:33):
less stressful.
Right.
I don't want you to be stressed.
Yeah.
And I think the more relationships you develop
with these perinatal therapists, cause I think they're
going to be your bread and butter.
The more relationships you form with them, their
clients, like, you know, more therapists have that
reaction, like that one of like, Whoa, what
did you do?
This is amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(25:54):
That's just going to be where so many
referrals come from.
Yes.
Yes.
And I've done really good at continuing to
reach out and nurture relationships like with other
therapists.
Um, I'm, I feel kind of stuck on
how to do that with like someone who
runs a birthing center or doulas.
Like how do I continually grow that?
Would you be willing to go in and
do a talk?
(26:15):
Yeah.
And I think, uh, one person said I
could even sit in on a class, just
like observe, which I would love to do
anyways.
And I know I can tour some of
the centers, which I'm, planning to reach out
and ask to do.
Yeah.
So any of those things, but it feels
kind of weird to just be like, Hey,
do you want to meet again for coffee
later?
I mean, it's not that weird, but I
don't know.
So yeah.
(26:35):
Like what would we talk about again?
So I don't know.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's in the first networking.
If you're like establishing non-work connection, then
it's like, you're just like, you're inviting them
out again.
Cause you liked them and you can chat
about whatever.
Yes.
And I think about the people that have
known you for other things in the past,
you can say like, Ooh, I've really sub
(26:55):
niched into this specialty.
So it gives you an excuse to follow
back up with them as well.
Right.
That's true.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I'll just have to continue that and keep,
I mean, it sounds like you're absolutely on
the right track.
It's a weird, weird year for referrals.
I've never seen anything like it.
It's not just you.
And I think it's going to be like
that first month after COVID hit where like
(27:18):
it was dead silent.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden everybody got
walloped.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
I think there's going to be an exhale
at some point.
Yeah.
And I'm in an area that's very, uh,
kind of Ford my, that the private pay
rates kind of curious, you know, so yeah,
we'll see.
Awesome.
Amazing.
Well, thank you, Kate.
I'll see you later.
(27:39):
Bye.
Bye.
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