September 3, 2025 • 27 mins
Ellie Miller, LCSW-C joins me in today’s episode to talk about showing up authentically in your marketing and why it matters for therapists. We dig into simple, effective ways to uncover your natural writing voice—like gathering feedback from loved ones and paying attention to how you communicate casually. Ellie also shares tips for building a brand voice cheat sheet, using AI tools like ChatGPT with intention, and steering clear of the overly academic language that can create distance with potential clients. We touch on the challenges of being real online—from video presence to self-disclosure to staying grounded in your values—and wrap up with her guidance on building deeper connection and confidence through your website and beyond.
Attention Abundance Community members: Ellie is our Abundance Community trainer for September 2025. For details on the live training via Zoom, email the HelpDesk or check out the event listing in our private Abundance Community Facebook group.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
(00:21):
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, on to the show.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
for years.
I could talk about the features and the
(00:41):
benefits in my sleep, but there are a
couple of things I want you to know
about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it
into an ad script.
First is that they actually care if you
like their platform.
They don't only make themselves available on the
phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your
hair out when you get stuck.
They also take member suggestions and implement those
that there's client demand for, like therapy search
(01:02):
and included listing service that helps clients find
you, internal and external secure messaging, clinical outcome
measures to keep an eye on how your
clients are progressing, a super smooth super bill
process, real-time eligibility to check on your
client's insurance.
In my conversations with the employees there at
all levels, they all really believe in their
product and they want you to love it
(01:22):
too.
Second, they are proudly independently owned.
Why should you care about that?
Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved,
the focus shifts from making customers happy to
making investors happy.
Prices go way up, innovation plateaus, making more
money with as little output as possible becomes
the number one focus.
(01:42):
With over a hundred thousand therapists using their
platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful
and they don't have to sacrifice your experience
to stay there.
You can try two months free at therapynotes
.com with the coupon code abundant.
Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm your host, Allison Pereer, founder of abundancepracticebuilding
(02:03):
.com.
And I'm here with Ellie Miller who runs
elliemillerdesignco.com.
We're going to talk about websites.
We're going to talk about what your website
needs to have, how you need to communicate
on it, maybe even some common mistakes people
make so that your website can actually work
for you.
Because I'm sure Ellie, you and I both
see lots of websites that absolutely do not
(02:24):
work for anyone.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
What's the best place for me to start
you think?
Well, I mean, I'm just kind of curious.
I love an origin story.
So what got you into design?
I know you're a therapist.
So what got you into designing websites too?
Yeah.
So it all started when I made my
first website because I know we have to
have a website.
(02:45):
That's pretty much all I knew.
I didn't know anything else about it.
I also have, you know, a creative artistic
background.
So I fell in love with this part
of the marketing process.
So anytime I was procrastinating on networking or
any of the harder stuff, I just spent
hours and hours into my website.
(03:05):
I was like redesigning it fully once a
month just for fun, which was enjoyable, but
maybe not the best use of my time.
So I started to have other therapists, friends,
like ask me to help them with their
websites.
So I'm like, okay, maybe that makes more
sense to spend that time towards that.
(03:25):
And yeah, just gotten a deep rabbit hole
learning about all the user experience, all the
science behind what works in websites, what doesn't,
like what to include the order things should
be.
And one of my favorite deep dive things
I learned about was authenticity and how to
show up authentically on your website.
(03:46):
So I thought it'd be helpful to talk
about that today because I think it's a
really powerful thing we can do.
Absolutely.
And it's, it feels counterintuitive for a lot
of therapists because of our training.
Like we're just supposed to like not be
human beings.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'll say like the first iteration of a
lot of people's websites is way more stiff.
(04:08):
It's stiff.
And it's like, there's a trying to prove
yourself that I see happening that is like
distancing ultimately, because nobody wants your $5 words.
Your $5 words make people feel stupid.
Nobody wants to hire the therapist that makes
them feel stupid.
Yeah.
It's distancing.
I think it causes a lot of burnout
on our end because then we're feeling like
(04:29):
that, that feeling that we have to prove
ourselves carries into the first few sessions and
that's training.
So if you just show up as yourself
at the beginning, you just get to be
yourself and wear less masks throughout.
Yeah.
And I, I mean, I think about authenticity
being tough for a lot of people in
general, right?
Like how many of us had really good
(04:49):
parents who were like, just go to the
social function, just be yourself.
Right.
You know?
And it's like, I don't, I still want
to show up as the person that people
want me to be.
So I'll be liked.
So I'll be accepted.
So I'll be chosen.
I know we've got that layer too.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a leap of faith,
but I, I just have found through experience.
The more you show up, like there's people
(05:11):
that are really going to connect with that.
They're really going to thank you.
You know, a hundred percent, need all kinds
and people who are not going to be
interested in you as you show up as
your authentic self.
That's great information too.
Right.
Fantastic.
Because those probably aren't your people.
Like they're the people you wouldn't feel so
awkward with in session.
We want to call in our, our people.
Yeah.
(05:32):
Yeah.
And it's like such a spiritual emotional practice
along the way as well.
Like the more you do that in your
marketing, you get to get better at that
in real life, which is great.
It's really fantastic.
Personal development, this whole, like having your own
business thing.
All of it is right.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
So would it be helpful to talk about
(05:53):
some of the exercises I found most helpful?
Yes.
That'd be awesome.
Yeah.
I love an actionable thing.
Thank you.
Okay, cool.
So I'm going to break it down to
like how to find your brand voice or
your authentic voice, what to do with that
information and how to apply that in your
writing.
So the first exercise that I find to
be really helpful for myself and the people
(06:15):
I work with is to, this one's a
fun one.
I like it.
This is an easy check off one.
So you pick like three to five friends
or family members who you feel comfortable with
and you send them an email asking a
few questions, saying something like, Hey, I'm working
on my website.
I'm trying to sound more like myself.
Can you give me some feedback on some
(06:37):
of these questions?
And you could include things like what adjectives
would you use to describe the way I
communicate?
Are there any specific words or phrases that
I use a ton that really make you
think of me?
Is there a certain way I leave you
or people feeling after we communicate?
(06:57):
And then something like, yeah, is there anything
unique about me in the way I speak
that stands out about me?
And I say, this is fun.
Cause you just get emails back with all
these compliments and what's special about you.
And it's always nice to have that because
a lot of the private practice building is
comfort zone pushing.
So I like sprinkling in just fun one.
(07:18):
I love that.
Yeah.
And it also helps you see how you
come across in ways you might not realize.
Exactly.
It's so hard to self-judge some of
this stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So once you get those emails back, just
start tracking any patterns you're seeing, anything that
rings, especially true to you and jotting that
down.
(07:39):
The next exercise is to go through casual
communications that you already write naturally areas where
you don't have that self-judgment filter on
as much.
So that could be like personal social media
posts or DMS. It could be emails with
friends.
Um, my favorite one to do is just
(08:00):
texts with friends.
So you just take out your phone and
pick three to five people that you text
with regularly.
The ones that you're not overthinking what you're
going to say or worrying about their response,
like the easy ones and scrolling through those
conversations, looking at how you write naturally.
And some things you can scan for are
(08:22):
like, how do I say hello?
How do I sign off in conversations?
How do I say, how are you like
checking your version of some of those common
phrases?
I also like to look for some people
call it like you isms or me isms.
Like those phrases or words that you're always
saying.
Like I noticed that I end a lot
(08:43):
of words with S I E S like,
Oh, cute.
C's fun.
C's like, so that's natural language for me.
But you'll find things that you say that
are like, Oh, I do do that a
lot with my words.
And those are fun things to sprinkle into
your copy throughout to like, make you sound
human and like yourself.
Yeah.
And another thing to look through with that
(09:04):
is like your style of writing specifically, like,
do I capitalize words a lot?
Do I bold things?
Am I a big ellipses user?
Are you like me?
And you way overuse exclamation marks or like,
which emojis are you using most frequently?
So I think that can be helpful.
Some of those pieces of that styling can
(09:25):
come into your website copy as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have always used a lot of em
dashes and now that's so associated with AI
that I'm like, I swear I wrote this.
Oh no.
Yeah.
It's all right.
What do you do?
Are you going to switch it up or
just stick true to yourself?
I don't know.
(09:46):
I kind of play with it sometimes.
And I also do a lot of parentheses.
Yeah.
Like asides.
Yeah.
Like I'm full of asides.
I know.
I have to edit out a lot of
asides.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's your style.
Yeah.
And I love this because like we all
do have a natural writing style.
I think when therapists sit down to write
website copy, those are website copy is the
(10:07):
words on your website.
When people sit down to write website copy,
they kind of come from this more academic
place as if they're writing their dissertation.
Yeah.
And so they are associating this field with
stuff people don't actually want to read.
I know.
No offense y'all.
No, it's true.
But that's, yeah, it's such a natural starting
(10:28):
place.
Like I get why that's where we start.
Yeah.
But I love that like you say and
go through and like look at the emails
you've sent your friends, look at your social
posts.
Like you already know how to write.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Like you.
Totally.
Yeah.
It's there.
And then the last exercise I'll give is
a pretty common one, but recording yourself speaking,
(10:48):
transcribing it, doing voice to text and answering
the questions you're answering on your website.
The questions that potential clients are trying to
find the answers to.
So what do you do?
What's your style?
What does a session with you look like?
What are the next steps?
And with that one, I would recommend like
doing it a few times because I think
(11:10):
at first when we're recording ourself, we still
have some of that filter.
But I think if you do it a
few times, it drops a little bit and
you can start to see again, just gathering
information about patterns, style, tone, frequently used words
or phrases.
And you're just really compiling all this information
from the exercises and seeing the common trends
(11:33):
that you notice.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's interesting too.
We get so in our heads when we
are, especially the first time we're writing for
a website or we're building our practice, we
get so in our heads about it.
And we just so significantly doubt that what
might feel natural is right.
(11:53):
Even though that's who you are as a
therapist, like how you show up in the
room is how we want you to show
up on your website.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That ultimately is the final filter reading through
something.
Like, does this sound like something I would
say in a session?
Yeah.
One of my favorite things to do is
read my copy aloud.
Yes.
If it feels wrong in my mouth or
it sounds dumb or creepy or like stilted
(12:17):
in my ears, then I'm like, okay, this
isn't like, this missed the mark.
Yes.
That's like the number one filter.
Yeah.
And I mean, like I've written a lot,
a lot, a lot, a lot.
And I still find things when I read
them out loud.
It's a really good, easy, free tool.
Yes.
Easy peasy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I noticed you're so good at writing in
(12:39):
your voice and all your like emails.
You're like, I know this is my interview,
but I'm curious, like if you have anything
that's helped you with the authentic voice and
like getting to that over time.
I mean, I've been doing it so long.
I've been doing it for over a decade.
So, and I think I am kind of
a writer.
Like I love to write emails.
One of my favorite things that I do
(13:01):
in my job.
So I do really love to write and
I always have.
And I will say like writing more authentically
always came much easier to me than writing
academically.
So for some people, it's the most, I
don't know about most people, but a lot
of therapists I work with, they, they retrain
their brain in an academic way with their
writing.
(13:21):
And that was just kind of like pulling
teeth for me the whole time.
That was so interesting.
I didn't have to do it anymore.
I had written copy for our website, for
our counseling and psychiatric services at the university
I worked for.
I think I'm just lucky that it came
a little easier to me, but having written
for that, I, you know, that that's an
(13:42):
organization.
There's a big we there that is more
formal than me.
So I think over time I've learned, I
also give myself permission to mess up, you
know, totally.
I don't think I'm going to do or
say anything that's going to get me canceled
because I don't think I have cancelable thoughts
or feelings.
(14:03):
Let's knock on wood.
I don't want to jinx you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think just being like, sometimes people
will be like, Oh, I didn't like how,
you know, you excluded or you didn't say
or whatever.
And like, that's just good feedback.
I'm willing to take the feedback.
And I want to say y'all listening
probably are not going to get that kind
(14:24):
of feedback because you don't have an audience
of tens of thousands of people like I
do.
So don't be scared of that.
Different risk level.
Like the risk is much lower.
Yeah.
And I also noticed you do a lot
of like storytelling in your copy.
And that's another, especially with like the rise
of AI writing, like that's one thing that
you have over AI.
(14:45):
Yeah.
And I think that's something we really, as
human beings, we connect to stories more than
anything.
And I keep looking at the ways, I
don't hate AI.
I think that there is a place for
AI, but I keep looking at the ways
that we, as individuals who know our clients
get results because of our relationships with them,
(15:07):
right?
Like all the data says it, like we've
all heard this since grad school.
Like it keeps being reinforced, which is why
I'm not afraid of AI taking our jobs.
But I think with the rise of big
therapy tech, there is risk of these companies
who have far more money for advertising than
we ever will to get the lion's share
(15:28):
of the clients out there.
But what they can't do is connect individually
the way we can.
Like our websites are going to be so
much more compelling than you have space for
in your little blurb on one of those
big therapy tech sites.
Yeah.
It's so true.
Really like looking at your website as probably
(15:49):
your most valuable asset in your marketing and
your practice.
Like I think of all the other marketing
strategies as responsible for getting people to your
website, but that website needs to work.
Yeah.
It needs to work.
It needs to build trust.
You need to seem like a real person
that they can feel comfortable with.
(16:10):
So then like once you kind of go
through some of those exercises and distill all
that information, I find it really helpful for
people who don't feel as natural writing in
their normal voice to distill it down into
like an authentic voice cheat sheet or like
a brand voice cheat sheet that can just
(16:33):
be in your Google docs when you need
it.
But I like to include things like top
three adjectives that describe my brand voice, my
you-isms, me-isms, things I say a
lot, phrases I say a lot, just notes
on like the general tone of how I
write.
And then also including like a list of
(16:53):
no-no words or copy, especially if you're
using AI to kind of draft stuff, like
you're going to need to know right away
certain things to scrap out that are just
so off.
And I also like to do a little
conversion table of one side are those common
words or phrases in everyday language, hello, goodbye,
thank you.
And on the other side, it's like translating
(17:13):
that into your language.
Like how, how do you say that?
Do you say, most people don't say hello,
like you're going to say something like hi
with five I's or like, oh, Hey, you
know, like, how are you actually saying that
when you see your friend?
And you can have all that information for
any copy you're writing blog, email, social media.
(17:36):
And then like how to use that cheat
sheet.
I either like have that out before I'm
writing copy or after as like a touchstone
to check, like, am I in line with
this?
And then again, speaking of AI, one way
I found it to be really helpful is
using it with like one of your copywriting
templates, filling that out on your own and
(17:58):
then editing it in chat GPT with your
voice.
Say like, Hey, can you help me tweak
this?
My to sound more X, Y, Z using
some phrases like X, Y, Z and don't
use words like this.
And that's obviously like not a final copy.
It's just a draft still, but just another
tool to like take some of the energy
off and make it sound more unique.
(18:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, I think about the, a
lot of people, especially people who don't consider
themselves writers who are not comfortable, we'll go
straight to chat GPT and be like, I'm
a therapist.
Write me a homepage.
Yeah.
And it's terrible.
It's so generic.
It's so generic and it's so cheesy.
I don't know why the default of chat
(18:43):
GPT is cheesy, but it is so cheesy.
Even when it's doing like it's voicey version
of it, I'm like, this is too much,
like tone it tight.
Yeah.
There's definitely like finger guns.
Like if chat GPT was a person.
And so to know that you're going to
have to edit heavily if you're using AI,
it can be a tool for editing.
(19:04):
Like you said, like you can create something,
have it edit, then you're editing that edit
and it is honing it.
It's getting better and better, but it's a
lot more work if you start with chat
GPT because then you're basically like scrapping all
of it.
Yeah.
How do you feel about the idea of
like starting with a template and then voice
as a...
Yeah.
I think a template can help, but I
think there's just so much heavy editing that
(19:26):
needs to be done.
There's still more.
It's not the end.
Yeah.
If it's, you know, if we're selling widgets,
I can see how it might be fine,
but we like chat GPT knows a lot,
but it doesn't fully understand human emotion like
a therapist can.
It never will.
No.
Not until it becomes sentient and, you know,
starts dating humans and such.
Oh God.
(19:46):
I feel like that started already a little.
Right.
A little.
But it can't, it can't understand the way
we do.
It's what makes us as therapists such better
marketers than like any other group of people
out there.
Like we know what our people think and
feel.
They tell us.
It's so true.
It's so true.
Yeah.
It's like, we have the CliffsNotes.
(20:07):
We really do.
We don't have to go out and do
like market research.
Really.
It's like naturally happening in our day-to
-day life.
Yeah.
Man.
Do you, do you come up with against
people like being afraid of sounding too authentic
on their website?
I have, I bump into that sometimes too.
People worried about being too much or.
(20:29):
Yeah.
I hear it from select groups of people.
Some of it are the people who are
just afraid of being seen.
And so like starting a private practice is
a real internal journey to that because there's
so much putting yourself out there.
I mean, it's like those, those consultations feel
very therapeutic in a lot of ways.
Right.
And I have to remind myself, like they
can talk about this part with their therapist.
(20:50):
I don't, I'm not supposed to touch this
part if I'm coaching them.
I think about like psychoanalytic folks.
There is a different level of boundaries for
psychoanalysts than there are for like, you know,
an act therapist.
Right.
And so I want to always honor their
boundaries and what feels right for them.
(21:10):
And we just kind of lean more into
like, how can you describe this ideal client?
Cause there's also a, I don't want to
niche that often goes along with analysts.
Oh really?
You don't want to, but will you, if
it helps fill your practice faster, if that's
your goal?
Yeah.
Cause you're still going to get people outside
your niche.
It happens for all of us.
Yes.
So are you willing to And then we
(21:32):
can just like write in a non-academic
voice about their experience.
If we're just focused on their daily lived
experience, you don't have to share about yourself.
Like your about me does not have to
be about how, you know, you two have
been through this or whatever.
You don't have to talk about that.
Yeah.
But, or people, and then there's that third
group of people who are just like, is
this allowed?
I know.
(21:52):
Like, am I, am I breaching something?
Cause the way I was taught was like,
don't even, I mean, I was in grad
school back before we had smartphones and back
before, like we had like the real internet,
like social and things like that.
And it was, it was very much like,
don't even have a picture of your family
on your desk.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
And so like breaking through some of that
(22:13):
programming of like, if you don't take up
any space at all in the therapy room,
even though that's not how I work, you
know, if you're very authentic and real with
your clients in session, whatever level of real
you are trying bring that to your website.
Exactly.
That's the guideposts.
It's like, would I feel comfortable sharing this
information in session?
(22:34):
It's like self-disclosure.
Would I feel comfortable sharing this with, is
this for me or is it benefiting the
client?
Which it is, you know, in a lot
of cases, benefiting the client.
If you're showing yourself, I think I know
for me, that would ease a lot of
my pre-therapy anxiety and calm my nerves.
I feel like I'm getting to know them
(22:55):
a little bit.
Yeah.
So again, I guess it depends who you
work with and what your style is.
That's going to differ.
Another filter I'll put it through is like,
if my most dysregulated clients saw this, how
would it impact them?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so that way I know it's fine.
I don't take a lot of super dysregulated
(23:16):
clients, but if, if your favorite clients are
pretty dysregulated, then you need to bear that
in mind when you're writing your website.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It all kind of ties together.
Yeah.
And it's why it's really important to know
who you really want to work with because
it can impact your tone to some extent.
Cause like my authentic way of being with
(23:36):
my in-laws is my authentic way of
being, but it's still different than my authentic
way of being with my best friend.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Gotta kind of like make it make sense
with your clients.
Yeah.
I agree, but it's definitely very freeing.
I highly recommend like digging into this side
(23:57):
of things for people who are scared to
show themselves.
It's really nice.
And you get the best clients for you.
Get the best clients.
Like I swear, I don't get emails from
people anymore that are like, I have to
send off.
Like it's just, Oh, I can already tell
we're going to be great.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(24:17):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
A video to another great way.
I feel like I tell everybody to do
a video.
Cause that's just like authenticity who you are
in 3d, you know?
Yeah.
And I think also like, it's okay.
If you don't show up super authentically on
video, the first few times you do it,
like expect that you're going to suck at
(24:37):
video.
Oh my God.
And practice practice.
It took me literally a full day to
make my first psychology today, little 15 seconds,
but I got there and now it's less
scary.
Yeah, absolutely.
I was such a cardboard cutout.
The second, any sort of camera was turned
on me.
Like it was, I have a whole training
in the abundance party about how to be
(24:57):
good on video because I was so bad.
Yeah.
Cause you have to like amp it up.
Like it almost feels like unnatural, but like
some stuff falls flat through the screen and
yeah.
And like, I'm a naturally, very energetic person,
but I get nervous whenever a camera is
on.
And so like I didn't, I didn't even
keep my normal level of energy.
I like went down.
(25:18):
Yeah.
And so I was like, my name's Alison
founder of abundance practice building, you know, like
painful.
Nobody's going to watch that.
And I had to, to get better.
Like I had to watch bad videos and
like, that's the worst part, like filming them
uncomfortable, watching them, but it's part of how
you evolve and grow and learn to like
(25:39):
loosen up and be yourself on camera.
Yeah.
And so would you say now after all
that practice, you feel like totally fine.
Yeah.
Like somebody could follow me around with a
camera all day and I'd be like, all
right, whatever.
Are you hinting at a reality show comment?
Oh God, no.
Darn.
Never, never.
You do get used to it, you know,
but you have to kind of put yourself
through the paces of like honing that skill.
(26:03):
Yeah.
And same thing with like the office authenticity
on your website.
It can be like a gradual process.
It doesn't have to be like zero to
a hundred, you know, your website is a
living thing.
You can put out a little, see if
that feels okay.
And then come back in a month and
maybe show a little more of yourself.
It can be gradual.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
(26:23):
Well, and you're going to do a training
for the abundance party.
So for anybody who's not already in there,
then, you know, come and join us.
We'll have the link in the show notes.
And for those of you who are there,
show up live and that way you can
ask questions.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, Ellie.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome.
It was fun chatting with you.
You too.
Bye.
(26:45):
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
Therapy Notes is the way to go.
Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo
code abundant for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow rate and
review, but I really want you to share
(27:06):
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
(00:21):
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, on to the show.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
for years.
I could talk about the features and the
(00:41):
benefits in my sleep, but there are a
couple of things I want you to know
about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it
into an ad script.
First is that they actually care if you
like their platform.
They don't only make themselves available on the
phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your
hair out when you get stuck.
They also take member suggestions and implement those
that there's client demand for, like therapy search
(01:02):
and included listing service that helps clients find
you, internal and external secure messaging, clinical outcome
measures to keep an eye on how your
clients are progressing, a super smooth super bill
process, real-time eligibility to check on your
client's insurance.
In my conversations with the employees there at
all levels, they all really believe in their
product and they want you to love it
(01:22):
too.
Second, they are proudly independently owned.
Why should you care about that?
Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved,
the focus shifts from making customers happy to
making investors happy.
Prices go way up, innovation plateaus, making more
money with as little output as possible becomes
the number one focus.
(01:42):
With over a hundred thousand therapists using their
platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful
and they don't have to sacrifice your experience
to stay there.
You can try two months free at therapynotes
.com with the coupon code abundant.
Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm your host, Allison Pereer, founder of abundancepracticebuilding
(02:03):
.com.
And I'm here with Ellie Miller who runs
elliemillerdesignco.com.
We're going to talk about websites.
We're going to talk about what your website
needs to have, how you need to communicate
on it, maybe even some common mistakes people
make so that your website can actually work
for you.
Because I'm sure Ellie, you and I both
see lots of websites that absolutely do not
(02:24):
work for anyone.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
What's the best place for me to start
you think?
Well, I mean, I'm just kind of curious.
I love an origin story.
So what got you into design?
I know you're a therapist.
So what got you into designing websites too?
Yeah.
So it all started when I made my
first website because I know we have to
have a website.
(02:45):
That's pretty much all I knew.
I didn't know anything else about it.
I also have, you know, a creative artistic
background.
So I fell in love with this part
of the marketing process.
So anytime I was procrastinating on networking or
any of the harder stuff, I just spent
hours and hours into my website.
(03:05):
I was like redesigning it fully once a
month just for fun, which was enjoyable, but
maybe not the best use of my time.
So I started to have other therapists, friends,
like ask me to help them with their
websites.
So I'm like, okay, maybe that makes more
sense to spend that time towards that.
(03:25):
And yeah, just gotten a deep rabbit hole
learning about all the user experience, all the
science behind what works in websites, what doesn't,
like what to include the order things should
be.
And one of my favorite deep dive things
I learned about was authenticity and how to
show up authentically on your website.
(03:46):
So I thought it'd be helpful to talk
about that today because I think it's a
really powerful thing we can do.
Absolutely.
And it's, it feels counterintuitive for a lot
of therapists because of our training.
Like we're just supposed to like not be
human beings.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'll say like the first iteration of a
lot of people's websites is way more stiff.
(04:08):
It's stiff.
And it's like, there's a trying to prove
yourself that I see happening that is like
distancing ultimately, because nobody wants your $5 words.
Your $5 words make people feel stupid.
Nobody wants to hire the therapist that makes
them feel stupid.
Yeah.
It's distancing.
I think it causes a lot of burnout
on our end because then we're feeling like
(04:29):
that, that feeling that we have to prove
ourselves carries into the first few sessions and
that's training.
So if you just show up as yourself
at the beginning, you just get to be
yourself and wear less masks throughout.
Yeah.
And I, I mean, I think about authenticity
being tough for a lot of people in
general, right?
Like how many of us had really good
(04:49):
parents who were like, just go to the
social function, just be yourself.
Right.
You know?
And it's like, I don't, I still want
to show up as the person that people
want me to be.
So I'll be liked.
So I'll be accepted.
So I'll be chosen.
I know we've got that layer too.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a leap of faith,
but I, I just have found through experience.
The more you show up, like there's people
(05:11):
that are really going to connect with that.
They're really going to thank you.
You know, a hundred percent, need all kinds
and people who are not going to be
interested in you as you show up as
your authentic self.
That's great information too.
Right.
Fantastic.
Because those probably aren't your people.
Like they're the people you wouldn't feel so
awkward with in session.
We want to call in our, our people.
Yeah.
(05:32):
Yeah.
And it's like such a spiritual emotional practice
along the way as well.
Like the more you do that in your
marketing, you get to get better at that
in real life, which is great.
It's really fantastic.
Personal development, this whole, like having your own
business thing.
All of it is right.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
So would it be helpful to talk about
(05:53):
some of the exercises I found most helpful?
Yes.
That'd be awesome.
Yeah.
I love an actionable thing.
Thank you.
Okay, cool.
So I'm going to break it down to
like how to find your brand voice or
your authentic voice, what to do with that
information and how to apply that in your
writing.
So the first exercise that I find to
be really helpful for myself and the people
(06:15):
I work with is to, this one's a
fun one.
I like it.
This is an easy check off one.
So you pick like three to five friends
or family members who you feel comfortable with
and you send them an email asking a
few questions, saying something like, Hey, I'm working
on my website.
I'm trying to sound more like myself.
Can you give me some feedback on some
(06:37):
of these questions?
And you could include things like what adjectives
would you use to describe the way I
communicate?
Are there any specific words or phrases that
I use a ton that really make you
think of me?
Is there a certain way I leave you
or people feeling after we communicate?
(06:57):
And then something like, yeah, is there anything
unique about me in the way I speak
that stands out about me?
And I say, this is fun.
Cause you just get emails back with all
these compliments and what's special about you.
And it's always nice to have that because
a lot of the private practice building is
comfort zone pushing.
So I like sprinkling in just fun one.
(07:18):
I love that.
Yeah.
And it also helps you see how you
come across in ways you might not realize.
Exactly.
It's so hard to self-judge some of
this stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So once you get those emails back, just
start tracking any patterns you're seeing, anything that
rings, especially true to you and jotting that
down.
(07:39):
The next exercise is to go through casual
communications that you already write naturally areas where
you don't have that self-judgment filter on
as much.
So that could be like personal social media
posts or DMS. It could be emails with
friends.
Um, my favorite one to do is just
(08:00):
texts with friends.
So you just take out your phone and
pick three to five people that you text
with regularly.
The ones that you're not overthinking what you're
going to say or worrying about their response,
like the easy ones and scrolling through those
conversations, looking at how you write naturally.
And some things you can scan for are
(08:22):
like, how do I say hello?
How do I sign off in conversations?
How do I say, how are you like
checking your version of some of those common
phrases?
I also like to look for some people
call it like you isms or me isms.
Like those phrases or words that you're always
saying.
Like I noticed that I end a lot
(08:43):
of words with S I E S like,
Oh, cute.
C's fun.
C's like, so that's natural language for me.
But you'll find things that you say that
are like, Oh, I do do that a
lot with my words.
And those are fun things to sprinkle into
your copy throughout to like, make you sound
human and like yourself.
Yeah.
And another thing to look through with that
(09:04):
is like your style of writing specifically, like,
do I capitalize words a lot?
Do I bold things?
Am I a big ellipses user?
Are you like me?
And you way overuse exclamation marks or like,
which emojis are you using most frequently?
So I think that can be helpful.
Some of those pieces of that styling can
(09:25):
come into your website copy as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have always used a lot of em
dashes and now that's so associated with AI
that I'm like, I swear I wrote this.
Oh no.
Yeah.
It's all right.
What do you do?
Are you going to switch it up or
just stick true to yourself?
I don't know.
(09:46):
I kind of play with it sometimes.
And I also do a lot of parentheses.
Yeah.
Like asides.
Yeah.
Like I'm full of asides.
I know.
I have to edit out a lot of
asides.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's your style.
Yeah.
And I love this because like we all
do have a natural writing style.
I think when therapists sit down to write
website copy, those are website copy is the
(10:07):
words on your website.
When people sit down to write website copy,
they kind of come from this more academic
place as if they're writing their dissertation.
Yeah.
And so they are associating this field with
stuff people don't actually want to read.
I know.
No offense y'all.
No, it's true.
But that's, yeah, it's such a natural starting
(10:28):
place.
Like I get why that's where we start.
Yeah.
But I love that like you say and
go through and like look at the emails
you've sent your friends, look at your social
posts.
Like you already know how to write.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Like you.
Totally.
Yeah.
It's there.
And then the last exercise I'll give is
a pretty common one, but recording yourself speaking,
(10:48):
transcribing it, doing voice to text and answering
the questions you're answering on your website.
The questions that potential clients are trying to
find the answers to.
So what do you do?
What's your style?
What does a session with you look like?
What are the next steps?
And with that one, I would recommend like
doing it a few times because I think
(11:10):
at first when we're recording ourself, we still
have some of that filter.
But I think if you do it a
few times, it drops a little bit and
you can start to see again, just gathering
information about patterns, style, tone, frequently used words
or phrases.
And you're just really compiling all this information
from the exercises and seeing the common trends
(11:33):
that you notice.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's interesting too.
We get so in our heads when we
are, especially the first time we're writing for
a website or we're building our practice, we
get so in our heads about it.
And we just so significantly doubt that what
might feel natural is right.
(11:53):
Even though that's who you are as a
therapist, like how you show up in the
room is how we want you to show
up on your website.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That ultimately is the final filter reading through
something.
Like, does this sound like something I would
say in a session?
Yeah.
One of my favorite things to do is
read my copy aloud.
Yes.
If it feels wrong in my mouth or
it sounds dumb or creepy or like stilted
(12:17):
in my ears, then I'm like, okay, this
isn't like, this missed the mark.
Yes.
That's like the number one filter.
Yeah.
And I mean, like I've written a lot,
a lot, a lot, a lot.
And I still find things when I read
them out loud.
It's a really good, easy, free tool.
Yes.
Easy peasy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I noticed you're so good at writing in
(12:39):
your voice and all your like emails.
You're like, I know this is my interview,
but I'm curious, like if you have anything
that's helped you with the authentic voice and
like getting to that over time.
I mean, I've been doing it so long.
I've been doing it for over a decade.
So, and I think I am kind of
a writer.
Like I love to write emails.
One of my favorite things that I do
(13:01):
in my job.
So I do really love to write and
I always have.
And I will say like writing more authentically
always came much easier to me than writing
academically.
So for some people, it's the most, I
don't know about most people, but a lot
of therapists I work with, they, they retrain
their brain in an academic way with their
writing.
(13:21):
And that was just kind of like pulling
teeth for me the whole time.
That was so interesting.
I didn't have to do it anymore.
I had written copy for our website, for
our counseling and psychiatric services at the university
I worked for.
I think I'm just lucky that it came
a little easier to me, but having written
for that, I, you know, that that's an
(13:42):
organization.
There's a big we there that is more
formal than me.
So I think over time I've learned, I
also give myself permission to mess up, you
know, totally.
I don't think I'm going to do or
say anything that's going to get me canceled
because I don't think I have cancelable thoughts
or feelings.
(14:03):
Let's knock on wood.
I don't want to jinx you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think just being like, sometimes people
will be like, Oh, I didn't like how,
you know, you excluded or you didn't say
or whatever.
And like, that's just good feedback.
I'm willing to take the feedback.
And I want to say y'all listening
probably are not going to get that kind
(14:24):
of feedback because you don't have an audience
of tens of thousands of people like I
do.
So don't be scared of that.
Different risk level.
Like the risk is much lower.
Yeah.
And I also noticed you do a lot
of like storytelling in your copy.
And that's another, especially with like the rise
of AI writing, like that's one thing that
you have over AI.
(14:45):
Yeah.
And I think that's something we really, as
human beings, we connect to stories more than
anything.
And I keep looking at the ways, I
don't hate AI.
I think that there is a place for
AI, but I keep looking at the ways
that we, as individuals who know our clients
get results because of our relationships with them,
(15:07):
right?
Like all the data says it, like we've
all heard this since grad school.
Like it keeps being reinforced, which is why
I'm not afraid of AI taking our jobs.
But I think with the rise of big
therapy tech, there is risk of these companies
who have far more money for advertising than
we ever will to get the lion's share
(15:28):
of the clients out there.
But what they can't do is connect individually
the way we can.
Like our websites are going to be so
much more compelling than you have space for
in your little blurb on one of those
big therapy tech sites.
Yeah.
It's so true.
Really like looking at your website as probably
(15:49):
your most valuable asset in your marketing and
your practice.
Like I think of all the other marketing
strategies as responsible for getting people to your
website, but that website needs to work.
Yeah.
It needs to work.
It needs to build trust.
You need to seem like a real person
that they can feel comfortable with.
(16:10):
So then like once you kind of go
through some of those exercises and distill all
that information, I find it really helpful for
people who don't feel as natural writing in
their normal voice to distill it down into
like an authentic voice cheat sheet or like
a brand voice cheat sheet that can just
(16:33):
be in your Google docs when you need
it.
But I like to include things like top
three adjectives that describe my brand voice, my
you-isms, me-isms, things I say a
lot, phrases I say a lot, just notes
on like the general tone of how I
write.
And then also including like a list of
(16:53):
no-no words or copy, especially if you're
using AI to kind of draft stuff, like
you're going to need to know right away
certain things to scrap out that are just
so off.
And I also like to do a little
conversion table of one side are those common
words or phrases in everyday language, hello, goodbye,
thank you.
And on the other side, it's like translating
(17:13):
that into your language.
Like how, how do you say that?
Do you say, most people don't say hello,
like you're going to say something like hi
with five I's or like, oh, Hey, you
know, like, how are you actually saying that
when you see your friend?
And you can have all that information for
any copy you're writing blog, email, social media.
(17:36):
And then like how to use that cheat
sheet.
I either like have that out before I'm
writing copy or after as like a touchstone
to check, like, am I in line with
this?
And then again, speaking of AI, one way
I found it to be really helpful is
using it with like one of your copywriting
templates, filling that out on your own and
(17:58):
then editing it in chat GPT with your
voice.
Say like, Hey, can you help me tweak
this?
My to sound more X, Y, Z using
some phrases like X, Y, Z and don't
use words like this.
And that's obviously like not a final copy.
It's just a draft still, but just another
tool to like take some of the energy
off and make it sound more unique.
(18:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, I think about the, a
lot of people, especially people who don't consider
themselves writers who are not comfortable, we'll go
straight to chat GPT and be like, I'm
a therapist.
Write me a homepage.
Yeah.
And it's terrible.
It's so generic.
It's so generic and it's so cheesy.
I don't know why the default of chat
(18:43):
GPT is cheesy, but it is so cheesy.
Even when it's doing like it's voicey version
of it, I'm like, this is too much,
like tone it tight.
Yeah.
There's definitely like finger guns.
Like if chat GPT was a person.
And so to know that you're going to
have to edit heavily if you're using AI,
it can be a tool for editing.
(19:04):
Like you said, like you can create something,
have it edit, then you're editing that edit
and it is honing it.
It's getting better and better, but it's a
lot more work if you start with chat
GPT because then you're basically like scrapping all
of it.
Yeah.
How do you feel about the idea of
like starting with a template and then voice
as a...
Yeah.
I think a template can help, but I
think there's just so much heavy editing that
(19:26):
needs to be done.
There's still more.
It's not the end.
Yeah.
If it's, you know, if we're selling widgets,
I can see how it might be fine,
but we like chat GPT knows a lot,
but it doesn't fully understand human emotion like
a therapist can.
It never will.
No.
Not until it becomes sentient and, you know,
starts dating humans and such.
Oh God.
(19:46):
I feel like that started already a little.
Right.
A little.
But it can't, it can't understand the way
we do.
It's what makes us as therapists such better
marketers than like any other group of people
out there.
Like we know what our people think and
feel.
They tell us.
It's so true.
It's so true.
Yeah.
It's like, we have the CliffsNotes.
(20:07):
We really do.
We don't have to go out and do
like market research.
Really.
It's like naturally happening in our day-to
-day life.
Yeah.
Man.
Do you, do you come up with against
people like being afraid of sounding too authentic
on their website?
I have, I bump into that sometimes too.
People worried about being too much or.
(20:29):
Yeah.
I hear it from select groups of people.
Some of it are the people who are
just afraid of being seen.
And so like starting a private practice is
a real internal journey to that because there's
so much putting yourself out there.
I mean, it's like those, those consultations feel
very therapeutic in a lot of ways.
Right.
And I have to remind myself, like they
can talk about this part with their therapist.
(20:50):
I don't, I'm not supposed to touch this
part if I'm coaching them.
I think about like psychoanalytic folks.
There is a different level of boundaries for
psychoanalysts than there are for like, you know,
an act therapist.
Right.
And so I want to always honor their
boundaries and what feels right for them.
(21:10):
And we just kind of lean more into
like, how can you describe this ideal client?
Cause there's also a, I don't want to
niche that often goes along with analysts.
Oh really?
You don't want to, but will you, if
it helps fill your practice faster, if that's
your goal?
Yeah.
Cause you're still going to get people outside
your niche.
It happens for all of us.
Yes.
So are you willing to And then we
(21:32):
can just like write in a non-academic
voice about their experience.
If we're just focused on their daily lived
experience, you don't have to share about yourself.
Like your about me does not have to
be about how, you know, you two have
been through this or whatever.
You don't have to talk about that.
Yeah.
But, or people, and then there's that third
group of people who are just like, is
this allowed?
I know.
(21:52):
Like, am I, am I breaching something?
Cause the way I was taught was like,
don't even, I mean, I was in grad
school back before we had smartphones and back
before, like we had like the real internet,
like social and things like that.
And it was, it was very much like,
don't even have a picture of your family
on your desk.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
And so like breaking through some of that
(22:13):
programming of like, if you don't take up
any space at all in the therapy room,
even though that's not how I work, you
know, if you're very authentic and real with
your clients in session, whatever level of real
you are trying bring that to your website.
Exactly.
That's the guideposts.
It's like, would I feel comfortable sharing this
information in session?
(22:34):
It's like self-disclosure.
Would I feel comfortable sharing this with, is
this for me or is it benefiting the
client?
Which it is, you know, in a lot
of cases, benefiting the client.
If you're showing yourself, I think I know
for me, that would ease a lot of
my pre-therapy anxiety and calm my nerves.
I feel like I'm getting to know them
(22:55):
a little bit.
Yeah.
So again, I guess it depends who you
work with and what your style is.
That's going to differ.
Another filter I'll put it through is like,
if my most dysregulated clients saw this, how
would it impact them?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so that way I know it's fine.
I don't take a lot of super dysregulated
(23:16):
clients, but if, if your favorite clients are
pretty dysregulated, then you need to bear that
in mind when you're writing your website.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It all kind of ties together.
Yeah.
And it's why it's really important to know
who you really want to work with because
it can impact your tone to some extent.
Cause like my authentic way of being with
(23:36):
my in-laws is my authentic way of
being, but it's still different than my authentic
way of being with my best friend.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Gotta kind of like make it make sense
with your clients.
Yeah.
I agree, but it's definitely very freeing.
I highly recommend like digging into this side
(23:57):
of things for people who are scared to
show themselves.
It's really nice.
And you get the best clients for you.
Get the best clients.
Like I swear, I don't get emails from
people anymore that are like, I have to
send off.
Like it's just, Oh, I can already tell
we're going to be great.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(24:17):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
A video to another great way.
I feel like I tell everybody to do
a video.
Cause that's just like authenticity who you are
in 3d, you know?
Yeah.
And I think also like, it's okay.
If you don't show up super authentically on
video, the first few times you do it,
like expect that you're going to suck at
(24:37):
video.
Oh my God.
And practice practice.
It took me literally a full day to
make my first psychology today, little 15 seconds,
but I got there and now it's less
scary.
Yeah, absolutely.
I was such a cardboard cutout.
The second, any sort of camera was turned
on me.
Like it was, I have a whole training
in the abundance party about how to be
(24:57):
good on video because I was so bad.
Yeah.
Cause you have to like amp it up.
Like it almost feels like unnatural, but like
some stuff falls flat through the screen and
yeah.
And like, I'm a naturally, very energetic person,
but I get nervous whenever a camera is
on.
And so like I didn't, I didn't even
keep my normal level of energy.
I like went down.
(25:18):
Yeah.
And so I was like, my name's Alison
founder of abundance practice building, you know, like
painful.
Nobody's going to watch that.
And I had to, to get better.
Like I had to watch bad videos and
like, that's the worst part, like filming them
uncomfortable, watching them, but it's part of how
you evolve and grow and learn to like
(25:39):
loosen up and be yourself on camera.
Yeah.
And so would you say now after all
that practice, you feel like totally fine.
Yeah.
Like somebody could follow me around with a
camera all day and I'd be like, all
right, whatever.
Are you hinting at a reality show comment?
Oh God, no.
Darn.
Never, never.
You do get used to it, you know,
but you have to kind of put yourself
through the paces of like honing that skill.
(26:03):
Yeah.
And same thing with like the office authenticity
on your website.
It can be like a gradual process.
It doesn't have to be like zero to
a hundred, you know, your website is a
living thing.
You can put out a little, see if
that feels okay.
And then come back in a month and
maybe show a little more of yourself.
It can be gradual.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
(26:23):
Well, and you're going to do a training
for the abundance party.
So for anybody who's not already in there,
then, you know, come and join us.
We'll have the link in the show notes.
And for those of you who are there,
show up live and that way you can
ask questions.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, Ellie.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome.
It was fun chatting with you.
You too.
Bye.
(26:45):
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
Therapy Notes is the way to go.
Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo
code abundant for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow rate and
review, but I really want you to share
(27:06):
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
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