September 24, 2025 • 29 mins
In today's podcast, Abundance Community member Adina and I dive into the art of professional networking—how to build genuine relationships while still being intentional about referrals. We talk about keeping connections warm through small, thoughtful gestures and the balance between giving and receiving in referral dynamics. Adina also shares where she’s at with her SEO and website performance, and we explore ways to strengthen her marketing by tuning into the exact search terms potential clients are using.
Sponsored by TherapyNotes®: Looking to switch EHRs? Try TherapyNotes® for 2 months free by using promo code ABUNDANT at therapynotes.com.
Links You’ll Love:
- Grab our FREE tools to grow your practice—weekly worksheets, the Tasky Checklist, and more: www.abundancepracticebuilding.com/links
- Ready to fill your practice faster? Join the Abundance Party today and get 75% off your first month with promo code PODCAST: www.abundancepracticebuilding.com/abundanceparty
- Need help with your niche? Check out our Know Your Niche course (just $27!) and learn how to attract your ideal client effortlessly: www.abundancepracticebuilding.com/niche
- Have a question for me about practice building? Submit it via our Ask Allison form, and I'll add it to the queue: https://www.abundancepracticebuilding.com/ask_allison
- Prefer video? This episode is also available to stream on our YouTube channel!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
(00:29):
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, onto the show.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
for years.
I could talk about the features and the
benefits in my sleep, but there are a
couple of things I want you to know
about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it
into an ad script.
First is that they actually care if you
(00:50):
like their platform.
They don't only make themselves available on the
phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your
hair out when you get stuck.
They also take member suggestions and implement those
that there's client demand for, like therapy search
and included listing service that helps clients find
you, internal and external secure messaging, clinical outcome
measures to keep an eye on how your
clients are progressing, a super smooth super bill
(01:12):
process, real-time eligibility to check on your
client's insurance.
In my conversations with the employees there at
all levels, they all really believe in their
product and they want you to love it
too.
Second, they are proudly independently owned.
Why should you care about that?
Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved,
the focus shifts from making customers happy to
(01:33):
making investors happy.
Prices go way up, innovation plateaus, making more
money with as little output as possible becomes
the number one focus.
With over 100,000 therapists using their platform,
they've been able to stay incredibly successful and
they don't have to sacrifice your experience to
stay there.
You can try two months free at therapynotes
(01:53):
.com with the coupon code abundant.
Hey, Dina.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you doing?
Doing okay.
Getting over maybe being sick, I'm not sure,
but I'm mentally as present as I can
be.
I love it.
Well, what would be most helpful today?
(02:13):
There's so much we could talk about.
We can go in a different direction if
this is something that we couldn't get to
today, but I was curious whether you could
look over my website and give some feedback
on it.
Could we do that another time?
(02:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Cool.
Just because that's the one where I'm like,
I felt really good about my website at
first, and I knew it was unfinished.
I knew there was work to be done
on it, but I felt good enough with
where it was.
Now I'm like, I never got back to
working on it because I've had too much
(02:55):
on my plate.
Is that what's stopping people from really converting,
or reaching out to me?
Yeah.
Bring it to group if that's cool with
you.
Yeah.
I won't be able to go for the
next few months, which is why I was
wondering, but I could always bring it back.
Okay.
(03:15):
Cool.
Other time.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I guess the other things are around questions
I've asked before that I could go a
little deeper on now that we have a
little bit more time here.
Networking and mindset stuff and things like that.
I'm just in a place where I'm feeling
stuck, partly because I don't have a ton
(03:41):
of time these days.
I actually have very little time.
It's hard to be following up with people
that I've met with before.
It's hard to be maintaining some of those
networking relationships.
I was struggling with that before, even when
I wasn't quite as busy, but I keep
getting stuck in the maintaining relationships phase, whether
(04:01):
or not I'm busy.
I am good at those initial one-on
-one networking experiences.
I have such a great time.
I leave feeling really good, get along with
most of the people I meet with.
Then the people I do end up staying
in touch with and becoming more friends with,
I feel like none of those have translated
(04:22):
into actually getting referrals.
Then the rest of the people, it's just
hard to stay in touch with everybody.
I've met with so many people.
Yeah.
I guess I don't really know what to
do with that at this point.
I know networking is really important and I
enjoy it.
I just have limited time and energy for
it.
Yeah.
I would get really strategic.
(04:44):
Let's say you really loved hanging out with
Susie, who is also in a similar stage
of building clientele.
I would not, because your time is limited,
I would rather you follow back up with
Rachel, who you also really liked but is
full and see similar clients, need somebody to
(05:05):
refer to, or John, who's a couples therapist
who sees the couples of your individual person.
I would just be, even if you really
love Susie, if you have limited time, it's
looking at who else did you enjoy that's
actually going to be able to help you
right now.
(05:25):
You can keep Susie on your list and
maybe that's just a quick, hey, how's it
going?
Text or email, but not necessarily like a
let's meet for coffee.
Let's do whatever.
But to use your time in a way
that if networking, if you are networking, not
just to make friends, but to build your
(05:45):
practice, really being strategic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think when it comes to networking with
other therapists, most of the people I've ended
up meeting are not necessarily full or overly
full where they're like, okay, I'm at a
good point.
I'm not really getting people in, but I'm
doing well right now.
(06:07):
So it's not like they really have people
to send my way, a lot of those
people.
And so I've been networking with some dieticians,
but I'm not like an eating disorder therapist.
And some of the people I've met are
in the eating disorder space because those are
the ones I just end up finding.
And they see people who don't have eating
(06:28):
disorders as well, people who come to them,
but some of them have their own therapist
or whatever it is.
I've also been networking with nurse practitioners, a
couple of psychiatrists, people who have gotten along
really well with and who are like, I
want to send people your way.
Maybe I just need to follow up with
them a little bit more.
(06:48):
I guess with them, I feel like so
many of the ones I've talked to there,
they either have people that they refer to
also who like, it seems like nobody else
is overflowing to the point of like, okay,
let's think of Adina and like refer to
her.
But also I think they're the ones, many
of the nurse practitioners I've met with are
(07:10):
the ones who have like so many people
on their caseload.
And so they, therefore they have less time
to work.
And so I think I like, I keep
getting stuck in that.
I know like you've mentioned before, I can
send an article or like a meme or
just like a, Hey, thinking of you sort
of email.
I am so bad at just like sending
(07:30):
random little things to people.
I am so much better at like connecting
one-on-one like in real time.
Yeah.
Maybe that's a little bit of where I'm
getting stuck.
I'm like, they're busy.
They don't have a ton of time.
I'm not going to bother them to like
meet up once a month.
But also like, how do I connect authentically
with people in between those one-on-ones?
(07:52):
Yeah.
Well, and I wonder about making the one
-on-ones as convenient as humanly possible.
So when you think about times in your
work or times of like friends or whomever
that like have the kinds of jobs where
it's back to back, like they're just slammed
all the time.
If you were to say, Hey person, I
(08:12):
would love to swing by and bring you
some lunch and just check in and see
how things are going.
Which day is best for you for me
to show up just to hang out for
about 30 minutes.
So it's not like I want to take
up your entire lunch break, which you don't
even get all of because maybe you're catching
up on notes or da da da.
But like, I want to swing by it
when I bring you food, you know, like
it's a pretty cheap way to, to build
(08:35):
your business is to buy somebody a lunch,
you know, for the people that you genuinely
get along with and really like who have
your clients.
So I might just do that once a
month.
That's fair.
Yeah.
A lot of them are too far for
me to easily meet up with them.
Um, like a lot of the people I've
met.
(08:55):
Um, so it would be like a lot
of time and money for me to like
get to where they are.
Could that be like a, can I order
you coffee?
And then we meet virtually one-on-one
at convenient for you.
Yeah.
Or can I door dash your lunch?
Cause I think about like, if they've got
to eat, yeah.
Then so like virtual lunch, I want to
(09:17):
door dash you.
Yeah.
Whatever you like, you know?
Okay.
I like that.
I think it felt like awkward about that.
Cause I'm like, I don't, I don't want
to be like, let me buy your time
is sort of what it feels like.
But I know people do that all the
time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, and especially like if they're
stuck at work, you know, and prescribers so
(09:39):
often are just like so slammed and they
have such huge caseloads and it's just so
much.
Yeah.
Sure.
So that's, yeah.
Okay.
No, that's helpful.
This next part might be like my own
weird mindset stuff, but I get caught up
in, okay, if I'm meeting, let's say I
have like four or five different like nurse
(10:01):
practitioners or psychiatrists that I know and like
which I probably have like around that number,
I can't refer to all of them.
And so like, it feels very one-sided
if like, I'm hoping that they refer to
me.
I know like all the stuff about like,
I'm helping them because their clients need support
and stuff.
(10:22):
I'm just so stuck.
I think in that mindset of like, I'm
taking advantage, they're doing this for me and
I'm doing nothing for them.
Cause like, they want clients to, even if
they're pretty full, a lot of the people
I've talked to are like, yeah, people are
always in and out.
Or I have a lot of like once
a month people are once every three months.
And so like, yes, I'm taking on more
clients.
(10:42):
So yeah, I really get stuck in that
mindset of I am taking advantage sort of
thing.
I'm not giving anything back to them because
I'm not also going to be the person
who's going to collaborate with like a nurse
practitioner, a dietician, another therapist, and be like,
let's put on this group together, this presentation.
Cause like hard no for me.
(11:04):
So I feel like there's very little I'm
giving them, even though I'm like, tell me
what you need.
I'm here to support, like, and I am
truly happy to support.
Like I really am.
I want to build other people up too,
not feel good, but nobody's asking me for
help or for anything that I can do.
So yeah.
What are your thoughts?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think while they might
(11:26):
be taking on clients, they also know that
most therapy clients aren't getting meds.
So whereas depending on the prescriber, like the
prescribers I tend to work with, most of
their clients are in therapy too.
So I think there is a kind of
a unidirectional situation.
And when you do have a client that
needs a prescriber, then I want you to
(11:47):
think of those people and like truly the
best fit for this client.
And you will end up referring to all
of them.
If you genuinely like them, then there will
be people like some people who just have
more of the same flavor as this person
than this person.
And so you're going to refer to this
first person.
So you will over the course of your
career, probably refer to all of them so
(12:07):
much, but for right now, it's just not
what you can do.
And you are bringing them, you're like sending
them lunch, you know, you're door dashing them
lunch.
So you are giving them something.
Yeah.
That's true.
No, it's helpful to look at it like
that.
I think I think of it as such
a short-term thing.
I'm like, if I want them to send
me clients, then don't I have to do
(12:28):
something for them too?
Which it's not like transactional like that.
But I think I'm so like many of
us therapists, I'm so used to like, I
don't need to ask for anything until I've
done something.
Right.
I'm the giver.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting, right?
That there's almost a, sometimes a not deserving
for people.
(12:49):
Like I don't deserve to have your help
until I've helped you.
So for some people it's deserving for like,
and you're like, it's not transactional because you're
building real relationships with them.
Yeah.
And so it really isn't transactional as you're,
you know, just like our friendships aren't transactional.
I don't expect my friend to buy me
coffee because I got hers last time, you
(13:09):
know?
Yeah.
That is a fair point.
Yeah.
That one's really stuck in my head.
So I, I'm going to listen back to
this and like, let that really sink in
too.
Cause you're right.
Like I know, and this is what I'd
be talking to my clients about too, if
they were stuck in this same headspace, but
it's just so hard to internalize that, you
(13:30):
know, as I'm working on building my practice,
I'm like, who am I to ask people
for help?
Not that I'm going to anybody saying like,
refer to me, please refer to me.
Like I'm not approaching it like that in
my head.
I'm like underneath there's this part where I'm
asking for clients indirectly.
And so, yeah, it's just so hard not
(13:50):
to get caught up in the, like, I
technically am asking for clients and I shouldn't
be doing that.
But like I'm doing them a service too.
I know that.
Yeah.
You really truly are.
Yeah.
And I would say as a group, therapists
aren't great at asking for help.
Yeah.
Also, you know, so it's feeling like you
(14:12):
are indirectly asking for help also feels like
deceptive in some way, even though like you're
really just building relationship.
You are reaching out to them because you
have this private practice, but you're reaching out
to them again because you like them.
So, and you do need to be strategic
because you don't have a ton of time.
So I would focus on the prescribers cause
they have many more people they can send
(14:33):
you than the average therapist will, especially if
the therapist you're talking to are also trying
to get full or stay full.
Yeah.
And then the ones who are full, the
therapists I know or have met who are
full are like, I want to start a
group practice.
And I'm like, great.
I mean, I fully support them.
And I'm like, tell me what you need
for me to help you.
(14:54):
And I'm excited hearing about like them being
at that stage.
And I'm like, Oh, I wonder if I
could get there to, I don't want to
run a group practice necessarily, but to the
point of like, Oh, I could run a
group practice because I'm so full.
Oh, great.
Like the ones who are full are just
like, I'm going to take it to the
next level.
Yeah.
I have not, I found it really difficult
(15:15):
to like find the therapists who are full,
who are not taking that next step either.
Yeah.
And, and I will say to anybody listening
or watching, it's not the next step, please
only do a group practice.
If you love to manage peers, no, please.
I have so many clients because of group
(15:37):
practices where it felt like the next step
and the person running it doesn't actually have
a big interest in mentorship for therapists or
leadership with therapists.
They, it just felt like the next step
and felt like it made sense financially when
the profit margins are extremely slim for group
(15:58):
practice.
If you're paying people appropriately.
Right.
Exactly.
Which is why so many of those group
practices don't pay people appropriately.
Right.
Yeah.
And so many go under, I mean, it's,
I have seen so many group practices go
under lately.
So all that to say for anybody who's
talked to Adina and is excited about the
(16:19):
next step, maybe the next step is giving
Adina referrals.
Is the next step.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Love that.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Okay.
So focusing more on the like prescribers, maybe
continuing with dietitians because like the people I
(16:41):
work with tend to, you know, need a
good dietitian who is conscious of like things
like intuitive eating and health at every size
and all of that.
Yeah.
You know, they're not the, my best fit
clients are not the ones with eating disorders
because that is not my specialty, but many
people have disordered eating as well.
(17:02):
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Most of us.
Yeah.
Right.
I'm disorderly.
Right.
Exactly.
That's just like, right.
So I find that like having great dietitians
to refer to is really awesome and has
felt really good to give those names to
my clients to be like, here, I know
this great person or several great people who
(17:22):
could be great fits in different ways.
Like let's talk to them.
And so like, I've tried to make some
referrals, but you know, there are people like
most of my clients are still like insurance
clients.
I'm in network still with one insurance.
And so some of the dietitians, I know
many of them are out of network.
And so like selling that of like, you're
(17:44):
still technically using insurance, but like network benefits
and all that, you know, it can be
tough.
And so then on the other side, like
the dietitians I know, like I said before,
they have people that they refer to and
that's where they get a lot of their
clients, I think from like therapists they know.
And so I'm like, what am I doing
wrong?
How do I choose the right people?
(18:04):
Cause like, I love talking to these people.
I have such a great time, have good
relationships with them, but yeah, it's just that
balance again, right?
Like how do I find these people who,
how do I know where to invest my
time?
I guess, because I don't always know whether
the person I'm meeting with has other people
they tend to refer to.
(18:25):
So I think that's another area where I'm
getting stuck of like, I think this will
be like a good back and forth referral
person, but I don't really know.
And then it like doesn't pan out in
that way, at least for a while.
Is that like a patient thing?
Like a patient's thing of like, I can't
expect in the first three months that they're
(18:45):
going to refer to me, you know?
I mean, it is definitely a planting seeds
thing.
I have heard very rarely of people who
like met somebody and then got a referral
within the next couple of weeks.
It's really about building that relationship and they
get to know you as a person and
they're like, oh my God, my friend Adina
would be so good for this person.
Instead of like that therapist I met, Adina
would be so good for this person.
(19:08):
I wonder too, if at some point in
the relationship, it makes sense to directly ask
for a referral or to say like, you
know, the summer's been really slow for referrals
for me.
What about you?
Yeah.
And if they're like, oh no, like it's
been fine for me.
You could just be like, well, you send
anybody over that you think you need, you
know, you think would be a good fit,
(19:29):
you know, like because you have a relationship
with them.
So it's not, it's not transactional because you're
already buddies, you know?
Yeah.
That's fair.
Because I'd be fine if they said that
to me, but like that brought up something
in me.
I just had a, like an internal reaction.
Like, yeah.
Say more.
Why not?
Yeah.
No, I know I can say that and
(19:51):
I probably would if I was close enough
to them, but maybe I feel like I
have to be a certain level of close
to like have that openness with my close
friends.
I would totally say that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like an, I'm asking too much kind
of thing.
I'm asking too directly and you're not supposed
to ask directly.
(20:14):
It depends.
Like, I don't think you have to be
besties to say it's been really slow for
me referral wise this summer.
What about you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say that to any therapist I
met, any dietician, you know, of course I
have these conversations all day.
So maybe that's not a fair thing to
say.
(20:34):
But to bring it up because they're in
a similar industry of like, have summers been,
or has this summer been slower for you
than it was last summer?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if they're like, yeah, it's been weird.
You'd be like, yeah.
Well, how about this?
If I find somebody, like if I have
a client that's a great fit, I'm sending
(20:55):
them your way.
If you have a client that's a good
fit for me, then I'd love them.
Yeah.
You know?
So it's just like, you're both in business.
You can commiserate some.
True.
And you're not twisting their arm.
Like they can also say like, yeah, totally.
And then not do it if they don't
want to send you people.
Right.
No.
Yeah.
But sometimes just like putting it out there
(21:16):
because people don't know what your caseload is
like.
True.
True.
And no, a fair point.
And I could totally see myself jokingly, half
jokingly saying like, oh yeah, send them my
way, you know, without actually saying, hey, I
need clients, send them my way.
Right.
Yeah.
And if you're saying it's been a slow
(21:37):
referral season, then like they know you need
clients.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it doesn't mean you're like, it's been
a slow referral season.
I'm scared to look at my bank account.
You know, like you're not doing that.
You're just being like, damn, that sucks.
Yeah.
Very fair.
Okay.
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
(21:57):
Yeah.
I'm going to sit with a lot of
this later too, because I need to explore
what else is coming up.
Cause like, I like, yes, I can totally
see myself saying that.
And also there's still this part of me
that's like, Ooh, but I can't give them
anything.
And so I think I just need to
like, I'm going to need to go back
and sit with all this.
Like I said.
Yeah.
I'd also love you to think of one
(22:19):
of your close friends and I want you
to write down every nice thing either of
you have ever done for each other to
make sure it's even.
Oh my gosh.
Right.
Like that's, that's how it's sounding to me
because it's not like, yes, these people aren't
your closest friends, but they are people you
get along with.
And you're not coming in with finger guns,
(22:40):
you know, like you're not like, Hey, you
look like somebody who should refer to me.
You're developing a relationship.
You're being honest about your experience.
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
I probably just need to like hear it
again.
Like, again, I'm going to listen back to
all this and just like, let it sink
in even more because it's getting there.
(23:02):
It's good.
Yeah.
I just, I think also it's like I,
in order for it to truly sink in,
I need to practice it.
I need to go out there and do
it and let it be super uncomfortable and
then get over it eventually.
Cause yeah, that's how it felt with like
cold emailing people and calling people.
Like I have no problem reaching out to
people now and being like, Hey, you want
to hang out?
(23:23):
Yeah.
That was so awkward for me before, but
it's just like normal now.
I've even set up a couple of like
mini therapist meetups before just like a few
people and like, just feel so good about
it.
And I wouldn't do that before.
Yeah.
It's amazing how that's most of practice building
is the anticipation of the thing being so
(23:43):
much worse than the actual thing.
And once you've done it a few times,
you've acclimated.
It's fine.
Yeah.
Fair point.
So yeah, that's what I'm going to have
to do then.
Awesome.
Since we have a few minutes, I figure
I can also see if you have any
more thoughts.
(24:03):
I know I brought this up in like
a Q and a call, one of our
like group calls a couple months ago, I've
been doing SEO, outsourcing SEO, and I've been
blogging weekly for almost a year, started SEO
specifically last November, but blogging since last August,
(24:25):
not really seeing progress.
Like I'm seeing progress in like the data,
but not numbers of like, you know, moving
up in Google and all that stuff, not
seeing more people come my way.
I have not had like organic people reach
out.
Mm-hmm.
(24:45):
I know I have to like, keep talking
to them about it because I know a
lot has changed with Google, but I guess
like, as I've been reworking my niche a
bit, I'm wondering like, do I target different
keywords?
And I know that's not like your area
of specialty SEO or anything.
And like, that's something I can brainstorm with
them, but wanted to see if you had
any thoughts on any of this.
(25:08):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you're moving up in the rankings.
Are you on the first page with any
of your keywords?
Some of them.
Yeah.
They like track for a bunch of versions
of like keywords.
And are you getting decent number of clicks
for those keywords that you were on the
first page of Google for?
It's okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
(25:28):
Yeah.
So like what I'm kind of assessing right
now is like, if a good number of
people are landing on your website and they're
not calling you, then the problem is your
website.
That's what I'm concerned about.
So it's not like a crazy amount of
people I'm getting, like, especially with the changes
to Google, the numbers went down a bit.
(25:48):
So yeah, I'm not getting like an insane
number there.
That's why I'm stuck in the, is it
my website or is it the search terms
or does the search term that we're really
targeting?
I don't know.
Is that right for the people that are
really a good fit for my practice?
(26:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when I ask other therapists or other
people, I know everybody's like, your website's great.
And that's why I'm like, I don't know.
And I spoke to my SEO person and
she looked over my website.
She also was not super concerned about it
being my website versus the amount of clicks.
I think I'm kind of stuck.
(26:30):
And so I'm also thinking like, what else
would I do if it wasn't, if SEO
wasn't the thing?
I mean, I'm going to keep it going
for a little longer because I'm in New
York.
It's hard.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I knew it was going to take
a while.
If this was Oklahoma, I'd be like a
whole year and you're not up on the
radar.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So like not too abnormal, I guess.
(26:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I will look at your website sometime
soon and just get back with you about
it.
But if they're not like, oh, it's the
website's fault.
Because if you do SEO and there's an
opportunity to blame it on something that's not
SEO, you would probably do that.
Right.
If there was concern and you weren't super
(27:14):
ethical.
So there was an in for that person
and they were like, no, you're not getting
enough clicks for me to worry about your
website.
So it's probably more like you need to
find other ways to get people there in
conjunction with SEO.
So I might be looking at the marketing
fundamentals too, of course, and seeing which of
(27:35):
those appeals to you most.
Just like every other, like I got used
to blogging.
I thought it was not going to like
it.
It takes up a lot of time, but
like I've been enjoying it to an extent.
I don't like how much time it takes
and how stressful that can be.
Yeah.
And where my own perfectionism shows up in
(27:57):
it.
But I do kind of like the process
of going through it really like the other
marketing things.
They're just like they're not totally for me
and take energy that I don't specifically want
to give to like those strategies.
I will go back and reassess, but like
these are my ones.
I might also try some other directories aside
(28:20):
from psychology today.
Cause I know we had an all rework
my psychology today too, as I've like rethought
my niche a little bit, but yeah, I
know you had recommended looking at search terms
that my clients might search and then seeing
whether directories come up or websites or whatever.
Yeah.
So yeah, there were a few websites that
(28:41):
came up.
I just, I always get stuck and we'll
have to pause in a second, but I
just get stuck with like, what are my
clients looking for?
So yeah.
So what I want you to do for
that is to like clear your mind and
really listen to your sessions.
Yeah.
Especially the people you just started working with.
Okay.
And just jot down a few notes after
(29:01):
each of like, where, where were they when
they first called?
Yeah.
What was going on for them?
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I will see you later.
Really appreciate it.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
Therapy Notes is the way to go.
(29:22):
Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo
code abundant for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
checklist using the link in the show notes.
I'd love for you to follow, rate, and
review, but I really want you to share
this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast.
I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building.
I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping
therapists build sustainable, joy-filled private practices, just
like I've done for tens of thousands of
therapists across the world.
I'm excited to help you too.
If you want to fill your practice with
ideal clients, we have loads of free resources
(00:29):
and paid support.
Go to abundancepracticebuilding.com slash links.
All right, onto the show.
So I've talked about therapy notes on here
for years.
I could talk about the features and the
benefits in my sleep, but there are a
couple of things I want you to know
about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it
into an ad script.
First is that they actually care if you
(00:50):
like their platform.
They don't only make themselves available on the
phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your
hair out when you get stuck.
They also take member suggestions and implement those
that there's client demand for, like therapy search
and included listing service that helps clients find
you, internal and external secure messaging, clinical outcome
measures to keep an eye on how your
clients are progressing, a super smooth super bill
(01:12):
process, real-time eligibility to check on your
client's insurance.
In my conversations with the employees there at
all levels, they all really believe in their
product and they want you to love it
too.
Second, they are proudly independently owned.
Why should you care about that?
Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved,
the focus shifts from making customers happy to
(01:33):
making investors happy.
Prices go way up, innovation plateaus, making more
money with as little output as possible becomes
the number one focus.
With over 100,000 therapists using their platform,
they've been able to stay incredibly successful and
they don't have to sacrifice your experience to
stay there.
You can try two months free at therapynotes
(01:53):
.com with the coupon code abundant.
Hey, Dina.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you doing?
Doing okay.
Getting over maybe being sick, I'm not sure,
but I'm mentally as present as I can
be.
I love it.
Well, what would be most helpful today?
(02:13):
There's so much we could talk about.
We can go in a different direction if
this is something that we couldn't get to
today, but I was curious whether you could
look over my website and give some feedback
on it.
Could we do that another time?
(02:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Cool.
Just because that's the one where I'm like,
I felt really good about my website at
first, and I knew it was unfinished.
I knew there was work to be done
on it, but I felt good enough with
where it was.
Now I'm like, I never got back to
working on it because I've had too much
(02:55):
on my plate.
Is that what's stopping people from really converting,
or reaching out to me?
Yeah.
Bring it to group if that's cool with
you.
Yeah.
I won't be able to go for the
next few months, which is why I was
wondering, but I could always bring it back.
Okay.
(03:15):
Cool.
Other time.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I guess the other things are around questions
I've asked before that I could go a
little deeper on now that we have a
little bit more time here.
Networking and mindset stuff and things like that.
I'm just in a place where I'm feeling
stuck, partly because I don't have a ton
(03:41):
of time these days.
I actually have very little time.
It's hard to be following up with people
that I've met with before.
It's hard to be maintaining some of those
networking relationships.
I was struggling with that before, even when
I wasn't quite as busy, but I keep
getting stuck in the maintaining relationships phase, whether
(04:01):
or not I'm busy.
I am good at those initial one-on
-one networking experiences.
I have such a great time.
I leave feeling really good, get along with
most of the people I meet with.
Then the people I do end up staying
in touch with and becoming more friends with,
I feel like none of those have translated
(04:22):
into actually getting referrals.
Then the rest of the people, it's just
hard to stay in touch with everybody.
I've met with so many people.
Yeah.
I guess I don't really know what to
do with that at this point.
I know networking is really important and I
enjoy it.
I just have limited time and energy for
it.
Yeah.
I would get really strategic.
(04:44):
Let's say you really loved hanging out with
Susie, who is also in a similar stage
of building clientele.
I would not, because your time is limited,
I would rather you follow back up with
Rachel, who you also really liked but is
full and see similar clients, need somebody to
(05:05):
refer to, or John, who's a couples therapist
who sees the couples of your individual person.
I would just be, even if you really
love Susie, if you have limited time, it's
looking at who else did you enjoy that's
actually going to be able to help you
right now.
(05:25):
You can keep Susie on your list and
maybe that's just a quick, hey, how's it
going?
Text or email, but not necessarily like a
let's meet for coffee.
Let's do whatever.
But to use your time in a way
that if networking, if you are networking, not
just to make friends, but to build your
(05:45):
practice, really being strategic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think when it comes to networking with
other therapists, most of the people I've ended
up meeting are not necessarily full or overly
full where they're like, okay, I'm at a
good point.
I'm not really getting people in, but I'm
doing well right now.
(06:07):
So it's not like they really have people
to send my way, a lot of those
people.
And so I've been networking with some dieticians,
but I'm not like an eating disorder therapist.
And some of the people I've met are
in the eating disorder space because those are
the ones I just end up finding.
And they see people who don't have eating
(06:28):
disorders as well, people who come to them,
but some of them have their own therapist
or whatever it is.
I've also been networking with nurse practitioners, a
couple of psychiatrists, people who have gotten along
really well with and who are like, I
want to send people your way.
Maybe I just need to follow up with
them a little bit more.
(06:48):
I guess with them, I feel like so
many of the ones I've talked to there,
they either have people that they refer to
also who like, it seems like nobody else
is overflowing to the point of like, okay,
let's think of Adina and like refer to
her.
But also I think they're the ones, many
of the nurse practitioners I've met with are
(07:10):
the ones who have like so many people
on their caseload.
And so they, therefore they have less time
to work.
And so I think I like, I keep
getting stuck in that.
I know like you've mentioned before, I can
send an article or like a meme or
just like a, Hey, thinking of you sort
of email.
I am so bad at just like sending
(07:30):
random little things to people.
I am so much better at like connecting
one-on-one like in real time.
Yeah.
Maybe that's a little bit of where I'm
getting stuck.
I'm like, they're busy.
They don't have a ton of time.
I'm not going to bother them to like
meet up once a month.
But also like, how do I connect authentically
with people in between those one-on-ones?
(07:52):
Yeah.
Well, and I wonder about making the one
-on-ones as convenient as humanly possible.
So when you think about times in your
work or times of like friends or whomever
that like have the kinds of jobs where
it's back to back, like they're just slammed
all the time.
If you were to say, Hey person, I
(08:12):
would love to swing by and bring you
some lunch and just check in and see
how things are going.
Which day is best for you for me
to show up just to hang out for
about 30 minutes.
So it's not like I want to take
up your entire lunch break, which you don't
even get all of because maybe you're catching
up on notes or da da da.
But like, I want to swing by it
when I bring you food, you know, like
it's a pretty cheap way to, to build
(08:35):
your business is to buy somebody a lunch,
you know, for the people that you genuinely
get along with and really like who have
your clients.
So I might just do that once a
month.
That's fair.
Yeah.
A lot of them are too far for
me to easily meet up with them.
Um, like a lot of the people I've
met.
(08:55):
Um, so it would be like a lot
of time and money for me to like
get to where they are.
Could that be like a, can I order
you coffee?
And then we meet virtually one-on-one
at convenient for you.
Yeah.
Or can I door dash your lunch?
Cause I think about like, if they've got
to eat, yeah.
Then so like virtual lunch, I want to
(09:17):
door dash you.
Yeah.
Whatever you like, you know?
Okay.
I like that.
I think it felt like awkward about that.
Cause I'm like, I don't, I don't want
to be like, let me buy your time
is sort of what it feels like.
But I know people do that all the
time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, and especially like if they're
stuck at work, you know, and prescribers so
(09:39):
often are just like so slammed and they
have such huge caseloads and it's just so
much.
Yeah.
Sure.
So that's, yeah.
Okay.
No, that's helpful.
This next part might be like my own
weird mindset stuff, but I get caught up
in, okay, if I'm meeting, let's say I
have like four or five different like nurse
(10:01):
practitioners or psychiatrists that I know and like
which I probably have like around that number,
I can't refer to all of them.
And so like, it feels very one-sided
if like, I'm hoping that they refer to
me.
I know like all the stuff about like,
I'm helping them because their clients need support
and stuff.
(10:22):
I'm just so stuck.
I think in that mindset of like, I'm
taking advantage, they're doing this for me and
I'm doing nothing for them.
Cause like, they want clients to, even if
they're pretty full, a lot of the people
I've talked to are like, yeah, people are
always in and out.
Or I have a lot of like once
a month people are once every three months.
And so like, yes, I'm taking on more
clients.
(10:42):
So yeah, I really get stuck in that
mindset of I am taking advantage sort of
thing.
I'm not giving anything back to them because
I'm not also going to be the person
who's going to collaborate with like a nurse
practitioner, a dietician, another therapist, and be like,
let's put on this group together, this presentation.
Cause like hard no for me.
(11:04):
So I feel like there's very little I'm
giving them, even though I'm like, tell me
what you need.
I'm here to support, like, and I am
truly happy to support.
Like I really am.
I want to build other people up too,
not feel good, but nobody's asking me for
help or for anything that I can do.
So yeah.
What are your thoughts?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think while they might
(11:26):
be taking on clients, they also know that
most therapy clients aren't getting meds.
So whereas depending on the prescriber, like the
prescribers I tend to work with, most of
their clients are in therapy too.
So I think there is a kind of
a unidirectional situation.
And when you do have a client that
needs a prescriber, then I want you to
(11:47):
think of those people and like truly the
best fit for this client.
And you will end up referring to all
of them.
If you genuinely like them, then there will
be people like some people who just have
more of the same flavor as this person
than this person.
And so you're going to refer to this
first person.
So you will over the course of your
career, probably refer to all of them so
(12:07):
much, but for right now, it's just not
what you can do.
And you are bringing them, you're like sending
them lunch, you know, you're door dashing them
lunch.
So you are giving them something.
Yeah.
That's true.
No, it's helpful to look at it like
that.
I think I think of it as such
a short-term thing.
I'm like, if I want them to send
me clients, then don't I have to do
(12:28):
something for them too?
Which it's not like transactional like that.
But I think I'm so like many of
us therapists, I'm so used to like, I
don't need to ask for anything until I've
done something.
Right.
I'm the giver.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting, right?
That there's almost a, sometimes a not deserving
for people.
(12:49):
Like I don't deserve to have your help
until I've helped you.
So for some people it's deserving for like,
and you're like, it's not transactional because you're
building real relationships with them.
Yeah.
And so it really isn't transactional as you're,
you know, just like our friendships aren't transactional.
I don't expect my friend to buy me
coffee because I got hers last time, you
(13:09):
know?
Yeah.
That is a fair point.
Yeah.
That one's really stuck in my head.
So I, I'm going to listen back to
this and like, let that really sink in
too.
Cause you're right.
Like I know, and this is what I'd
be talking to my clients about too, if
they were stuck in this same headspace, but
it's just so hard to internalize that, you
(13:30):
know, as I'm working on building my practice,
I'm like, who am I to ask people
for help?
Not that I'm going to anybody saying like,
refer to me, please refer to me.
Like I'm not approaching it like that in
my head.
I'm like underneath there's this part where I'm
asking for clients indirectly.
And so, yeah, it's just so hard not
(13:50):
to get caught up in the, like, I
technically am asking for clients and I shouldn't
be doing that.
But like I'm doing them a service too.
I know that.
Yeah.
You really truly are.
Yeah.
And I would say as a group, therapists
aren't great at asking for help.
Yeah.
Also, you know, so it's feeling like you
(14:12):
are indirectly asking for help also feels like
deceptive in some way, even though like you're
really just building relationship.
You are reaching out to them because you
have this private practice, but you're reaching out
to them again because you like them.
So, and you do need to be strategic
because you don't have a ton of time.
So I would focus on the prescribers cause
they have many more people they can send
(14:33):
you than the average therapist will, especially if
the therapist you're talking to are also trying
to get full or stay full.
Yeah.
And then the ones who are full, the
therapists I know or have met who are
full are like, I want to start a
group practice.
And I'm like, great.
I mean, I fully support them.
And I'm like, tell me what you need
for me to help you.
(14:54):
And I'm excited hearing about like them being
at that stage.
And I'm like, Oh, I wonder if I
could get there to, I don't want to
run a group practice necessarily, but to the
point of like, Oh, I could run a
group practice because I'm so full.
Oh, great.
Like the ones who are full are just
like, I'm going to take it to the
next level.
Yeah.
I have not, I found it really difficult
(15:15):
to like find the therapists who are full,
who are not taking that next step either.
Yeah.
And, and I will say to anybody listening
or watching, it's not the next step, please
only do a group practice.
If you love to manage peers, no, please.
I have so many clients because of group
(15:37):
practices where it felt like the next step
and the person running it doesn't actually have
a big interest in mentorship for therapists or
leadership with therapists.
They, it just felt like the next step
and felt like it made sense financially when
the profit margins are extremely slim for group
(15:58):
practice.
If you're paying people appropriately.
Right.
Exactly.
Which is why so many of those group
practices don't pay people appropriately.
Right.
Yeah.
And so many go under, I mean, it's,
I have seen so many group practices go
under lately.
So all that to say for anybody who's
talked to Adina and is excited about the
(16:19):
next step, maybe the next step is giving
Adina referrals.
Is the next step.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Love that.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Okay.
So focusing more on the like prescribers, maybe
continuing with dietitians because like the people I
(16:41):
work with tend to, you know, need a
good dietitian who is conscious of like things
like intuitive eating and health at every size
and all of that.
Yeah.
You know, they're not the, my best fit
clients are not the ones with eating disorders
because that is not my specialty, but many
people have disordered eating as well.
(17:02):
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Most of us.
Yeah.
Right.
I'm disorderly.
Right.
Exactly.
That's just like, right.
So I find that like having great dietitians
to refer to is really awesome and has
felt really good to give those names to
my clients to be like, here, I know
this great person or several great people who
(17:22):
could be great fits in different ways.
Like let's talk to them.
And so like, I've tried to make some
referrals, but you know, there are people like
most of my clients are still like insurance
clients.
I'm in network still with one insurance.
And so some of the dietitians, I know
many of them are out of network.
And so like selling that of like, you're
(17:44):
still technically using insurance, but like network benefits
and all that, you know, it can be
tough.
And so then on the other side, like
the dietitians I know, like I said before,
they have people that they refer to and
that's where they get a lot of their
clients, I think from like therapists they know.
And so I'm like, what am I doing
wrong?
How do I choose the right people?
(18:04):
Cause like, I love talking to these people.
I have such a great time, have good
relationships with them, but yeah, it's just that
balance again, right?
Like how do I find these people who,
how do I know where to invest my
time?
I guess, because I don't always know whether
the person I'm meeting with has other people
they tend to refer to.
(18:25):
So I think that's another area where I'm
getting stuck of like, I think this will
be like a good back and forth referral
person, but I don't really know.
And then it like doesn't pan out in
that way, at least for a while.
Is that like a patient thing?
Like a patient's thing of like, I can't
expect in the first three months that they're
(18:45):
going to refer to me, you know?
I mean, it is definitely a planting seeds
thing.
I have heard very rarely of people who
like met somebody and then got a referral
within the next couple of weeks.
It's really about building that relationship and they
get to know you as a person and
they're like, oh my God, my friend Adina
would be so good for this person.
Instead of like that therapist I met, Adina
would be so good for this person.
(19:08):
I wonder too, if at some point in
the relationship, it makes sense to directly ask
for a referral or to say like, you
know, the summer's been really slow for referrals
for me.
What about you?
Yeah.
And if they're like, oh no, like it's
been fine for me.
You could just be like, well, you send
anybody over that you think you need, you
know, you think would be a good fit,
(19:29):
you know, like because you have a relationship
with them.
So it's not, it's not transactional because you're
already buddies, you know?
Yeah.
That's fair.
Because I'd be fine if they said that
to me, but like that brought up something
in me.
I just had a, like an internal reaction.
Like, yeah.
Say more.
Why not?
Yeah.
No, I know I can say that and
(19:51):
I probably would if I was close enough
to them, but maybe I feel like I
have to be a certain level of close
to like have that openness with my close
friends.
I would totally say that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like an, I'm asking too much kind
of thing.
I'm asking too directly and you're not supposed
to ask directly.
(20:14):
It depends.
Like, I don't think you have to be
besties to say it's been really slow for
me referral wise this summer.
What about you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say that to any therapist I
met, any dietician, you know, of course I
have these conversations all day.
So maybe that's not a fair thing to
say.
(20:34):
But to bring it up because they're in
a similar industry of like, have summers been,
or has this summer been slower for you
than it was last summer?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if they're like, yeah, it's been weird.
You'd be like, yeah.
Well, how about this?
If I find somebody, like if I have
a client that's a great fit, I'm sending
(20:55):
them your way.
If you have a client that's a good
fit for me, then I'd love them.
Yeah.
You know?
So it's just like, you're both in business.
You can commiserate some.
True.
And you're not twisting their arm.
Like they can also say like, yeah, totally.
And then not do it if they don't
want to send you people.
Right.
No.
Yeah.
But sometimes just like putting it out there
(21:16):
because people don't know what your caseload is
like.
True.
True.
And no, a fair point.
And I could totally see myself jokingly, half
jokingly saying like, oh yeah, send them my
way, you know, without actually saying, hey, I
need clients, send them my way.
Right.
Yeah.
And if you're saying it's been a slow
(21:37):
referral season, then like they know you need
clients.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it doesn't mean you're like, it's been
a slow referral season.
I'm scared to look at my bank account.
You know, like you're not doing that.
You're just being like, damn, that sucks.
Yeah.
Very fair.
Okay.
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
(21:57):
Yeah.
I'm going to sit with a lot of
this later too, because I need to explore
what else is coming up.
Cause like, I like, yes, I can totally
see myself saying that.
And also there's still this part of me
that's like, Ooh, but I can't give them
anything.
And so I think I just need to
like, I'm going to need to go back
and sit with all this.
Like I said.
Yeah.
I'd also love you to think of one
(22:19):
of your close friends and I want you
to write down every nice thing either of
you have ever done for each other to
make sure it's even.
Oh my gosh.
Right.
Like that's, that's how it's sounding to me
because it's not like, yes, these people aren't
your closest friends, but they are people you
get along with.
And you're not coming in with finger guns,
(22:40):
you know, like you're not like, Hey, you
look like somebody who should refer to me.
You're developing a relationship.
You're being honest about your experience.
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
I probably just need to like hear it
again.
Like, again, I'm going to listen back to
all this and just like, let it sink
in even more because it's getting there.
(23:02):
It's good.
Yeah.
I just, I think also it's like I,
in order for it to truly sink in,
I need to practice it.
I need to go out there and do
it and let it be super uncomfortable and
then get over it eventually.
Cause yeah, that's how it felt with like
cold emailing people and calling people.
Like I have no problem reaching out to
people now and being like, Hey, you want
to hang out?
(23:23):
Yeah.
That was so awkward for me before, but
it's just like normal now.
I've even set up a couple of like
mini therapist meetups before just like a few
people and like, just feel so good about
it.
And I wouldn't do that before.
Yeah.
It's amazing how that's most of practice building
is the anticipation of the thing being so
(23:43):
much worse than the actual thing.
And once you've done it a few times,
you've acclimated.
It's fine.
Yeah.
Fair point.
So yeah, that's what I'm going to have
to do then.
Awesome.
Since we have a few minutes, I figure
I can also see if you have any
more thoughts.
(24:03):
I know I brought this up in like
a Q and a call, one of our
like group calls a couple months ago, I've
been doing SEO, outsourcing SEO, and I've been
blogging weekly for almost a year, started SEO
specifically last November, but blogging since last August,
(24:25):
not really seeing progress.
Like I'm seeing progress in like the data,
but not numbers of like, you know, moving
up in Google and all that stuff, not
seeing more people come my way.
I have not had like organic people reach
out.
Mm-hmm.
(24:45):
I know I have to like, keep talking
to them about it because I know a
lot has changed with Google, but I guess
like, as I've been reworking my niche a
bit, I'm wondering like, do I target different
keywords?
And I know that's not like your area
of specialty SEO or anything.
And like, that's something I can brainstorm with
them, but wanted to see if you had
any thoughts on any of this.
(25:08):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you're moving up in the rankings.
Are you on the first page with any
of your keywords?
Some of them.
Yeah.
They like track for a bunch of versions
of like keywords.
And are you getting decent number of clicks
for those keywords that you were on the
first page of Google for?
It's okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
(25:28):
Yeah.
So like what I'm kind of assessing right
now is like, if a good number of
people are landing on your website and they're
not calling you, then the problem is your
website.
That's what I'm concerned about.
So it's not like a crazy amount of
people I'm getting, like, especially with the changes
to Google, the numbers went down a bit.
(25:48):
So yeah, I'm not getting like an insane
number there.
That's why I'm stuck in the, is it
my website or is it the search terms
or does the search term that we're really
targeting?
I don't know.
Is that right for the people that are
really a good fit for my practice?
(26:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when I ask other therapists or other
people, I know everybody's like, your website's great.
And that's why I'm like, I don't know.
And I spoke to my SEO person and
she looked over my website.
She also was not super concerned about it
being my website versus the amount of clicks.
I think I'm kind of stuck.
(26:30):
And so I'm also thinking like, what else
would I do if it wasn't, if SEO
wasn't the thing?
I mean, I'm going to keep it going
for a little longer because I'm in New
York.
It's hard.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I knew it was going to take
a while.
If this was Oklahoma, I'd be like a
whole year and you're not up on the
radar.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So like not too abnormal, I guess.
(26:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I will look at your website sometime
soon and just get back with you about
it.
But if they're not like, oh, it's the
website's fault.
Because if you do SEO and there's an
opportunity to blame it on something that's not
SEO, you would probably do that.
Right.
If there was concern and you weren't super
(27:14):
ethical.
So there was an in for that person
and they were like, no, you're not getting
enough clicks for me to worry about your
website.
So it's probably more like you need to
find other ways to get people there in
conjunction with SEO.
So I might be looking at the marketing
fundamentals too, of course, and seeing which of
(27:35):
those appeals to you most.
Just like every other, like I got used
to blogging.
I thought it was not going to like
it.
It takes up a lot of time, but
like I've been enjoying it to an extent.
I don't like how much time it takes
and how stressful that can be.
Yeah.
And where my own perfectionism shows up in
(27:57):
it.
But I do kind of like the process
of going through it really like the other
marketing things.
They're just like they're not totally for me
and take energy that I don't specifically want
to give to like those strategies.
I will go back and reassess, but like
these are my ones.
I might also try some other directories aside
(28:20):
from psychology today.
Cause I know we had an all rework
my psychology today too, as I've like rethought
my niche a little bit, but yeah, I
know you had recommended looking at search terms
that my clients might search and then seeing
whether directories come up or websites or whatever.
Yeah.
So yeah, there were a few websites that
(28:41):
came up.
I just, I always get stuck and we'll
have to pause in a second, but I
just get stuck with like, what are my
clients looking for?
So yeah.
So what I want you to do for
that is to like clear your mind and
really listen to your sessions.
Yeah.
Especially the people you just started working with.
Okay.
And just jot down a few notes after
(29:01):
each of like, where, where were they when
they first called?
Yeah.
What was going on for them?
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I will see you later.
Really appreciate it.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
If you're ready for a much easier practice,
Therapy Notes is the way to go.
(29:22):
Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo
code abundant for two months free.
If you're listening, you probably need some support
building your practice.
If you're a super newbie, grab our free
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this episode with a therapist friend.
Let's help all our colleagues build what they
want.
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