February 4, 2025 • 44 mins
The episode explores the dramatic shifts within the advertising industry driven by major mergers, data usage, and the rise of AI. It highlights how these changes may impact creativity, the role of independent agencies, and the ethical implications surrounding diversity in advertising.
• Discussion on Omnicom’s acquisition of IPG and its implications
• The significance of data in shaping contemporary advertising strategies
• Concerns over job stability in the wake of consolidation
• Analysis of the American Dream's changing definition related to advertising
• Impact of holiday advertising on consumer engagement
• Exploration of independent agencies as creative hubs
• Examination of DEI initiatives in advertising and their rollback
• Insights into the relationship between advertising and emerging technologies like cryptocurrency
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Well, I think they kind of put a blow on the whole
evolution of advertising.
You know, we see that.
You know there's going to bethis big AI revolution.
It's obviously a bigconsolidation.
We could talk about theconsolidation, right, because we
saw a couple of holdingcompanies and a few advertising
agencies Talking about combiningright.
Right, you want to talk aboutit?
Yeah, we can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I think, just jumping into that though, like what's,
I think, what springboarded,that is the conversation around
data.
Yeah, true, so I think that alot of this, and we're talking
about the- acquisition of.
Omnicom and IPG yeah.
I mean come so for some context.
Omnicom Acquired IPG and themcoming together has made them
(01:04):
the the largest holders.
It will make them the largestholding company and advertising
in the world.
Because I feel like before thatit was like WPP and then I feel
like Publicis uh, they, theyedged them out, um, from a
billings perspective, uh.
And so now Publicis had like alittle good run for a small time
(01:24):
and now this acquisition whichhas to, it's still not finalized
.
I feel like it finalizes likein May or June, so it still
could fall through right.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I think it's going to happen.
We in that era of you know yeah, but just to kind of tap back
into it.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So, from a data perspective, publicis acquired
Epsilon and what they were ableto do.
Artur and his crew was able tosay no, we need to have this
across all of our businesses.
And they were able to get itrolling, this data platform,
rolling like much quicker and ata larger scale.
(02:00):
Within the company, whathappens?
The stocks go up.
So now they're doing good,they're showing growth.
Ipg already had it going, butthey weren't able to, you know,
get it done as quick.
So now OMD I mean, excuse me,omnicom is saying like, wow,
publicist has blown us out ofthe water.
(02:21):
From a data perspective, weneed to do something about it.
And that's what kind of broughtthis conversation together.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
Interesting.
I mean I thought it was more so.
You know bigger agencies justtrying to keep the lights on.
Like I think I mean there's onlyso much, so much fish in the
sea, so much, so much food thatwe can.
You know that agencies can fishfor out in the sea, so much, so
much food that we could, youknow, that agencies can fish for
out in the water.
And I think you know one of thebiggest things that that
(02:49):
they're gonna be doing isobviously consolidating
departments, people, names andand it's and it's interesting
because so many people who leftpublicist, um, sorry, so many
people who let, left ipg or wentto omnicom or the opposite, you
know, they were like trying toget away.
Right now it's like, hey, man,coming back to, coming back home
(03:12):
, which is which is interesting,and I think you know well, I
mean, obviously there there'salways, um, you know, these kind
of shifts in advertising.
So it'll, it'll be interestingto see, kind of once the I don't
want to say the heads startrolling, but people start
getting, you know, those Brownboxes, I was going to say those
(03:33):
HR, those 9 am HR meetings.
Because look like I saw on AdAge.
Ad Age had an article.
I only read the headline.
I didn't read the whole thing,but the headline was you know,
read the headline.
I didn't read the whole thing,but the headline was you know,
according to ad age, that theceo of uh interpublic group ipg,
philippe krakowski, is lookingto receive a severance of 49
(03:54):
million dollars golden parachuteand he is allegedly being
promised a uh you know positionwhen he gets hired at omnicom,
which is crazy Again.
Hey, more power to him.
You did whatever you did to getto that position.
And again, this is maybe mebeing a person of the people,
(04:17):
but there's so many people,obviously, that are going to be
producers, head of productions,head of accounts, that are
probably great and they willprobably keep their job.
But there's people who are goodat their job who won't get.
I'm not saying they need $49million, but it's crazy that you
can give someone $49 millionand tell everybody else like yo,
we can't even, you know, wecan't even give you three months
(04:38):
severance or we can't even giveyou six months.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
You know, because in reality with that is very
similar to Game of Thrones.
When winter's coming, ai iscoming.
So, they're like you know what,let me cash out.
Yeah, I got to cash out.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Let's bring our forces together and figure this
thing out.
But my problem is, too, is justlike just what.
I don't want to get into toomany different types, but just
like with boomers, take that andretire, take that money and
retire and then let the nextgeneration take the helm.
But instead I'm going to juststay here.
$49 million at, I'm sure he'slike close to $70 million what
(05:18):
are you going to do with that?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Not to pocket watch.
I'm just saying what are yougoing to do with that?
Go on a beach somewhere.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
He's probably going probably run for president.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Anyway, you're not from harlem no, you're kind of
petty.
Speaker 6 (05:29):
No, I mean queens brothers, you know we a little
petty, but yeah I mean even, andI get you say they should
retire.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And it's weird because the generations behind
us, they won't be able to attainthis thing called the american
dream.
Supposedly that caused like 4.4million dollars now to get to
acquire the American dream.
Right and we can break thatdown.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Who's got time to do?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
that Nobody.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
You're going to work till you drop and look at all
right, just to jump in.
Sorry to cut you off, I guessto cut you off, but like, like,
look at the housing andeverything that's going on in
California and in Florida withthe weather, yeah, but with the
weather.
It's just like you could buyyour dream home and then boom.
I mean and again not to soundall morbid, but I'm just saying,
like you could put your lifeand your love into your dream
(06:09):
home, and then insurancecompanies will say yo, we not,
we not covering that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Well, america doesn't start until you start losing,
losing things.
So that's true.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
We can get back to the spot called wealth.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
They basically said that America's dream cost is
going to be a total of $4.4million for your entire life,
right?
Speaker 6 (06:26):
That doesn't count.
Family like raising a family.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
It does, it does.
This is how it breaks downRaising children ironically,
that's the first point Raisingchildren and paying for college
you're talking about.
From the time they're born tothe time they graduate.
You're probably going to spend$832,172 per child to $72 per
child, right, if you're intopets I don't have a dog because
it costs too much money, but ifyou want a pet, you're probably
going to have multiple pets overyour life.
(06:50):
I feel about $36,000 in petsthat's a lot of dogs, bro.
Okay, then if you're talkingabout, like, annual vacations,
right, just over a course ofyour life, you're going to spend
about 179 000 just on vacations, right, you know then, if you
say it's safe for retirement nowI know that's working at a
(07:11):
retirement company currently asa xd uh principal designer.
Yeah, you're going to needanywhere from like 1.5 to 2
million just to live comfortableright, to buy these high-ass
eggs in retirement.
So you're going to need about$2 million plus to retire.
Nice, and that's just you.
Maybe you got a partner orsignificant other or whatever,
(07:33):
so probably double that if youwant to do it like that.
If you're talking aboutspending money on your home,
owning a home and putting moneyinto it, you're going to have to
spend roughly about $922,000over the duration of your life.
And owning cars, that's roughlyabout like $811,000.
So you're saying over a courseof like 40, 50 years you're
(07:57):
going to spend about $4.4million if you're here in
America.
So yeah, buckle up, baby You'regoing to need it.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
This American dream?
Whose dream is this?
Because, man, when I startseeing those, bills racking up
like that.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's the dream they marketed Right exactly.
Well, it's the dream that wesell in this world of marketing
Like.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
Valentine's Day is coming up, so you know it's time
for us to Get your mouth, yougot to start cooking.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
No, no, I'm just saying from an advertising
marketing perspective.
Like do you know that Americaonly stays afloat by way of the
holidays that we market and sell?
So like we would hit a deficitif we don't see the numbers go
up before Valentine's Day or wedon't see the numbers go up for
Christmas, of course,President's Day weekend sales.
(08:41):
Easter.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And all enough.
If Americans just don't spend,everything would just plummet in
price.
All this inflation wouldliterally disappear overnight.
But we're just trained to spend.
It's the American way.
It's the American way.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Just to wrap up, the IPG thing, I think, another
prediction.
I think everyone's going tofigure it out, but I honestly
think independent shops aregoing to be.
If you care about creativity,independent shops will be where
it's at, like places like Wiedenand Kennedy, mother, semitu and
(09:17):
Sunny or Droga.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Those are some of the Well Droga's no longer
independent?
Oh, they're not.
They're owned by Accenture.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Oh, by Accenture.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
All right, Well take them off the list, or some of
the Well.
Drugs are no longer independent?
Oh, they're not.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
They're owned by Accenture, oh, by Accenture.
All right, well, take them offthe list.
But I think that's going to bekind of where, if you care about
making something creative andchanging the world, blah, blah,
blah, that's going to be whereyou want to go.
If you just care about punchingin, collecting a check, maybe
doing something cool andcreative, then these larger
(09:44):
agencies will be for you.
But you know you'll be, you'llbe a meat.
I'm not going to say small.
You might be a medium fish,large pond, or you could be a
big fish in a big pond, becausea lot of independent agencies
are not small.
I just want to be clear.
Like I think people who aren'tin the industry may not, you
know, realize it, but when youare at these medium to midsize
(10:08):
agencies that are independent, alot of them do a lot and they
do have big.
They have a big reach in termsof, like, just brick and mortar
places and they're making coolshit.
So, like I mean, right nowthat's where I want to be.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah, and it's interesting that you say that
too, even from a client'sperspective, like, I think
clients, some clients wouldprefer to deal with those
smaller agencies.
They don't want to get caughtup in the shuffle of like this
one RFP and like you got allthese big wigs coming at you and
also too just to drop the dimereal quick, because maybe I am
from harlem.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
But like, like, like these large agencies are doing
stuff.
They double dipping in the, inthe funds, they're forcing their
, their, their brands and theseclients to um work with uh kind
of internal resources andthey're basically billing it
like come on, dog, like I meanyou know.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, I mean making the money work and they sell it
in, like they sell you thisdream.
It's in the scope of work.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah, right yo we got people in new york.
We got team in london.
We got it.
We could be.
They're selling you for 24hours.
They're like yo, we could dothis shit 24 hours.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
But they'll tell you oh we, well, we have an
associate, we have a seniorassociate and a manager to do it
, and then when they get thebusiness, they'm like, oh shit,
we can't do this or they only.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
Yeah, they got you and one other person and you
don't know that you got threeroles.
Well, look let's?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
let's take a quick break, um, because this this is
a great segue to the next topicaround creativity and culture
and how that's gonna play out.
I do want to get, uh, brotherfrancis on the call so we can
take a time to just kind of takea break and punch him in.
How about that?
Yeah, let's do that, I bet.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Master Lord, please Thank you, my lord.
Master Lord, a game of chess islike a sword fight.
You must think first before youmove.
(12:12):
My lord, a handsome sword.
Do you think your wu-tang swordcan defeat me?
I came here tonight to playchess.
Nobody ever mentioned anythingabout a sword fight.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
What's good people?
We're back from break, justwant to, you know, punch in
Brother Francis.
So what's going on with you,sir?
We back.
How you doing man.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
I'm good bro.
Thank you for punching me in.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, man, the brothers just caught up on a
couple different things.
We basically talked about somepersonal journeys over these
last three years, because thelast time we actually recorded,
you hosted and it was cool.
It was very chill.
You covered a bunch ofdifferent topics.
One of the things you talkedabout was like you started a
company around Seat at the Table.
You brought up a coupledifferent topics around
(13:03):
predictions, around the currentpresident and a bunch of other
things.
So we just want to see howyou're doing, man, and see
what's going on before we jumpinto some other things around
creativity and culture.
Speaker 7 (13:15):
Man, I've been good over the last what three, four
years, or whatever.
Yeah three years.
Yeah, it's just been a lot ofhustling.
Man just hustling on the frontend, back end side hustles
different companies.
I've been working on Plus, likeyou know, my regular day to day
advertising gig, so you know,black men don't really ever get
(13:39):
a day off.
No, you don't, man, I'm alwaysdoing something.
Plus, you know, in between allof that other stuff, I try to
enjoy my life and my time onthis planet, been on a few trips
seeing more to earth and, um,yeah, man, I'm just living, man,
I'm I'm super blessed, can'treally complain about a lot.
(14:00):
Man, yeah, I'm happy to bereconnecting with you all, to
get on here and talk some shit.
I'm gonna try.
I said my new year's resolution, uh, I'm gonna try to reduce my
cursing.
So I know I just cursed, I justbroke that, but I'm gonna try
to keep it clean for the rest of, uh, this recording okay,
(14:20):
that's cool, man um, because Idon't.
I don't want it to to take awayfrom any of my intellectual,
introspective, thought-provokingcommentary, no doubt by putting
an MF on top of stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, but sometimes you just gotta say, motherfucker
, it's kind of like SamuelJackson, right?
I think it's a black thing.
Speaker 7 (14:41):
It is African-American urban setting
nuance that we love.
Mf.
Yeah, only we can say it.
If you hear somebody white sayit it's like oh my god, what do
you say?
Speaker 6 (14:57):
that's true, almost almost repulsive that's funny.
I remember I was watching.
I was watching, um, uh, chrisrock's top five and I remember
he was doing a radio promo andthe white white guy was like yo
put some stank on it and he didsome shit like that, where he's
just like this is themotherfucking blah, blah, blah.
It was just funny, but yeah,man, it was good.
(15:19):
Francis, how you doing, man?
This is Tony.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
Yo, what's up, bro?
How are you?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I'm good.
I'm good if a white guy saidput some steak on it to you,
what would you say, bro, my?
Response would be very blackand say I'll slap the shit out.
Oh my god, I think only blackpeople say that I've never heard
anyone from any other ethnicityor race say I'll slap the shit
out, you, even if you don't doit.
It's just a black thing to say.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
Yeah, it's a forewarning.
That is very black it is.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So, francis, check it man.
Like I said, we basicallycovered a couple different
topics.
We talked about the evolutionof advertising, we kind of
jumped in.
You know, obviously the topicof the day is AI, right, so you
know we ain't really got to getthat deep.
But some of the differentagencies, we talked about this
thing around ethics inadvertising, especially when it
comes to DEI and these differentrollbacks of those programs.
(16:14):
I want to get your perspectiveson that because we know that
those type of I guess, issuesand policies and rollback of
these programs is definitelygoing to affect creativity and
culture when it comes to design,advertising and the whole
commercial world.
So I want to just get your pointof view on that.
Speaker 7 (16:32):
I mean, I think, even when I think about the rollback
on any of that stuff, the firstthing I think about is just the
economy of people of color,right, Right.
So like, if you're rolling backprograms like that, you're
cutting jobs.
You're, you know, cuttingsupplier or budget mandates that
(16:52):
may have been earmarked.
So the first thing I thinkabout is I think about the
attack on the economy of peopleof color right and specifically
black folks, because you know weusually have less than
everybody, right?
um?
So you know, when I hear aboutall of that, those cutbacks, I
think about, like, what theimmediate and long term effect
is.
And a long term effect, and theshort term effect too, is just
(17:16):
less.
We're getting less and less ofthe pie.
So I think that you know thepivot is is like trying to, like
, be as smart as possible andand, and you know, being forward
thinking right and it and Iwant to jump in there too, just
to add uh to what francis issaying.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
You know, I I do.
It is a little disappointing tosee how dei hasn't has evolved
to, to a term sort of like woke,like.
I think a lot of people havetaken it and evolved it.
Because I just want to be clear, dei is not.
I mean, obviously it helps alot of people of color and black
people, but it's not just blackpeople, it's race, it's gender,
(17:59):
it's sexual orientation, it'sage, because in our industry,
specifically advertising, it'slike ageism.
And it's religion.
So I think a lot of peopleoutside of maybe the industry or
or any industry that includesdei might think like oh yeah,
we're we're just um cutting jobsfrom black people who probably
(18:22):
didn't deserve it.
But it's more than that.
It might even include 100.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, cause I was.
I was just waiting for everyoneto go.
I was going to mention that too, and I feel like the reason
that is is because black peopleare on the front line for
everything.
So, like, even you know, if, ifthey want to test something, if
it's cool, if it's not cool, oror Like you know, you have in
the classroom and someone justlike looking at that one person
(18:48):
and they're going to, they'regoing to all look at black
people.
Like if you look at civilrights, like I mean, think about
that, like everyone benefitedoff of that, but that was, you
know, a fight by way of blackpeople.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
So when you look at the footage, you see brothers
getting dogs and hoses on them.
You don't see Latinos or Asians.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
So now you so?
So there, you got the blackpeople doing the work, yeah, and
then once the work is done,everyone else benefit falls in.
So it's like you know, andnobody wants to be fodder-
anymore right, right yeah, Imean according to the new
administration.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
Um, you know, dei is gone, dei died honestly I think
I, I think DEI died in at least22.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Are you saying when they actually gave Juneteenth a
real?
Speaker 6 (19:36):
holiday.
I think well, I don't want tosay that.
That was the pivot.
But I want to say, like mypersonal opinion, I started to
see a lot of companies just careless and less about, you know,
following up with the policy,less about worrying about where
the budget goes.
And you know I can sayfirsthand I saw, you know, I saw
(19:57):
when companies were saying like, hey, like if you're, if you're
bidding a job, you have to havea diverse amount of bidders.
Because you know I don't knowif you guys do in the media, but
I know in production we triplebid, which is basically just to
make sure you get a fair number.
You know you bid it with threedifferent people, three
different companies, just tomake who could do the job,
(20:17):
someone that's probably blackperson of color, poc, what they
would like to say?
Um, and then I just started tosee, at least by 2022, they were
(20:41):
just like they don't care, justbring whoever you want.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's 2025 now right, we hear these programs roll back
.
So a cat like me from Atlanta,georgia, born and raised there,
my first take on DEI was notcalled DEI, it was, like, really
called affirmative action.
A person like Maynard Jackson,as an example, new mayor in a
city that's trying to make, Iguess, a foot for itself, right,
(21:05):
like create a good footprintfor itself, trying to be a major
player on this world stage,basically was saying that you
know, for like, the airport atthe time was kind of like a
Mayor Currier airport.
You talking about Hartsfield,basically wanted to become a
bigger airport.
So the goal that he helped toset was, like you know, so many
contracts would have to bediverse.
(21:34):
It couldn't just be a bunch ofyou know good old boy white guys
bidding on trying to build outthe airport.
He got people like HJ Russell,who would come out and pour all
the runway concrete for theseplanes to land, and a bunch of
other like local businesses,like Pascal's and other smaller
businesses to be like some ofthese inaugural businesses,
black businesses to help buildout the airport back in the late
70s.
So a guy like him had foresightof how to use, at the time
(21:55):
affirmative action to help buildblack wealth in a city like
Atlanta, georgia, and we'restill seeing the benefits of
that literally four or fivedecades later.
So I do think this idea of DEImaybe being rolled back is one
thing, but I do think there'sstill power in local
municipalities, even certaincompanies like Costco.
(22:16):
They're like F you, we're goingto do what we want Our
customers like this.
We're not going to rock theboat and you guys can do what
you want and you know what'scrazy.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
What you know.
What's crazy about all this?
What In what?
What's crazy about all this?
What in what day is today, 20and 26, in about five days?
All these companies that?
Speaker 7 (22:36):
roll back dei.
Yeah, black history month, yeah.
I don't even think, I don'teven think those companies are
going to acknowledge it notenough.
Oh, that'll be interesting ifyou if you noticed, over like
the last, I would say, 10 yearsor so, it's like black history
month is getting smaller andsmaller, uh like awareness and
conversation around it.
Right, like you see, somebrands still do stuff around it,
(22:57):
but for the most part, uh, Idon't think so.
You see way more pride umactivations and, like you know,
uh, media around pride versusblack history month.
Like black history month, Ifeel like it's actually going
like the way of the dinosaur,wow yeah, yeah, I mean I also,
and and not even, not even justum, from like a corporate
(23:22):
standpoint.
I just think even black peopleas a culture, I don't think we
care about Black historymovement, Do you think, because
you know we're kind of.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
it seems like you know these companies are only
talking to us this time of yearand they're pandering, which
they do that with every other,you know, I guess holiday, but
specifically, black historystarted as a week and it turned
into a month.
But do you think it's Francis?
Do you think it's around, like?
Do you think it's around, like?
Do we feel that these guys arejust pandering?
They just kind of throwingmoney, but they don't really
mean anything what you mean whenthey do acknowledge.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
Yeah, like you know, only this time of year I, I
don't, I don't know if they, ifthey're pandering, I mean maybe,
but I I think that it's just,it's kind of like one of those
tent poles, right, it's anopportunity for them to make
money around something right.
So, just like how, like overthe last maybe five years or so,
(24:16):
like you see, way more lunarnew year stuff, mm-hmm, like I
never even knew what lunar newyear was 10 years ago and I
lived in fucking new york, right, right, um.
But now, like you see, like um,I mean I actually just saw
something on uh the ralph laurensite.
There's like all types of lunarnew year stuff for uh the ralph
(24:38):
lauren is doing and he's heactually even did like something
for black history month, I feellike last year.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Oh yeah, he did that whole capsule, the design
capsule, with the uh designerright, and then he had like the
little buttons that was like uh,uh, in in the colors too, and
he did the more house.
I think it was like the hbcu,uh, kind of capsule with like
the style, like it was like thesweaters and all that stuff was
dope that that didn't come outin black history month.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah so real quick.
But I mean, at the end of theday, too, it's like a company is
looking for another point ofentry to making money, Right
yeah.
So you know, if black people asa whole aren't talking about
Black History Month and aren'tpushing it within our culture,
then why would a company latchon to that as an opportunity to
make money?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So real quick quick.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
If the main demographic doesn't really care
about it.
I don't think they're gonnacare about it rosé, you say yeah
, yeah so.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
So that's an interesting point that you uh
brought up.
Francis, I'm gonna call youfrank right so so no, that's an
interesting point that you bringup, because when you're saying
like like I'm hearing, like weand us and culture, and like
when we're saying black people,but I think the thing is black
history is more geared towardsAmerican history.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It is right.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And so it's American history, right?
So then, when you have peoplefrom different places who are
black, right, but being blackdoesn't really mean as much to
me, because everywhere I go inthis place it's black people.
So it makes me think about that, right, because that's a really
good point that he brought up,like how black people don't
really care about it, and Ithink it's certain pockets that
(26:20):
don't really care, because ifI'm from a place and the
government is black, everywhereI go it's like 95 black.
When I go to america, like whywould I care about this?
Speaker 7 (26:31):
like back home everyone's black, right, so I
didn't, but don't, you, don'teven think about it like that
though like, like, like,honestly think about people that
you know in your circle, right,I guarantee.
You take 10 black people rightnow between the eight let's,
let's do it like media 25 to 49years old, and you ask 10 black
(26:51):
people, um, who medgar evers was, or um, or shit.
Nikki giovanni just died rightask 10 black people between 25
and 49.
You might get six black peopleor five black people who know
who she was but.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But my question is why?
Why do you think that is?
Though, that's what, that'swhat I'm kind of getting to the
why why you think I think.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
I think it's a, it's a lack of knowledge itself,
right?
I think that, like we, we'vebeen bombarded with so much
other shit that makes us notcare about like you know who we
are, where we're from, rightwhat our contributions to
America and society are.
I think all that has shifted.
(27:37):
I mean shit, I'm what?
45 now.
I think that that that startedprobably within the last 20 or
so years.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I'm going to add to that because, okay, I'm 48.
I got a cousin.
I'm not going to say who he is,he was like 18 at the time.
He's older now, but at the time, you know, this is when I lived
in Atlanta before moving to NewYork, and this is kind of funny
I literally asked him thequestion of hey, so what city
was Martin Luther King born in?
Mind you, we in Atlanta, I'masking him this question, and he
(28:06):
couldn't do it.
I literally gave him the answerby asking the question.
But I had to think about it.
I'm like, ok, martin LutherKing was literally assassinated
eight years before I was born,right 68.
I'm born in 76.
That's eight years.
That's not a lot of time, right, my cousin born 10 years after
me, so he's a little bit morefar removed from that sense of
(28:28):
urgency of having to know aboutour history.
On top of, I think, to what um,you know, francis is saying of
brother frank, is that itdepends on where you're from, it
depends on how you learn abouthistory.
I'm from atlanta.
You just naturally see blackpeople everywhere, right, you
kind of see black history beingmade, but you also.
I learned most of the blackhistory I know, not from school.
(28:50):
I actually learned it from mycommunity, from my dad, my
parents, the coaches, the bandinstructor I mean most of my
band instructors.
They all went to HBCUs, soliving a black experience was
just seamless.
Now, that was my privilege.
I understand that there are alot of people from different
places don't have that privilege.
So learning about NikkiGiovanni, learning about the
(29:14):
nation, learning about thePanthers, learning about Mega
Everest, you know, or even FredHampton or any of these people
like, was just, it's just nottop of mind, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I guess I'm gonna land my plane with this, right,
what you got.
My original point was we'retalking about, like black
history and I'm saying inamerica, it means something
different to be black in americathan it means in other places,
because people from other placesthat happen to be black, they
lead with their ethnicity andtheir nationality.
In America, it's important toput race first before your
(29:49):
nationality and your ethnicity,right?
So when we're talking about Igrew up kind of the same way
where it's like no, you need toknow who Clarence 13X is, you
need to know who Elijah Muhammadis right.
That that's how I grew up barakaright right but someone coming
from somewhere else.
(30:10):
It's like well, yeah, I'm black, but like it oh, they look at
it as just american it's justlike.
It's like well, I'm, I'mjamaican, right, nobody leads,
and I'm black jamaican.
So what I'm saying is I thinkthat plays a part in it.
To it too is like yeah, likeI'm, I'm just here.
I'm just here, like I here's agood example of that.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
You take Drake right?
Yeah, drake is a good exampleof a person who learned black
history through rap music.
He never really learned aboutblackness because he grew up
Jewish.
He didn't grow up around hisdad right he really grew up
around his mom.
He learned who his dad was overa period of time.
But if you think about hiswhole ethos, to learn about that
black experience was throughrap music, not through books,
(30:54):
not through talking tointellects or normal people like
us.
Right, he learned through rapmusic, black culture.
Speaker 7 (31:01):
Do we know that, though, bro?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh, we know that.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
You can just listen to the shitty rapper.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
But I'm just saying we've seen it and we can
speculate we know, I mean hisfather, his uncles.
Speaker 7 (31:10):
They are they, they, they are like us, like they're.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
They're regular good memphis dudes right right we
don't know if you spent summersdown there, bro yeah, I think, I
think I think what ad is sayingand is like, based on what he
said and interviews when he wason degrassi and how he carried
himself, um, you know, in a morekind of posh way, you can
(31:36):
speculate.
I'm not saying it did happen,but I'm saying you could
speculate that later on in lifeis when he, kind of like,
adopted that and learned.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
But I agree with you, we don't know if he didn't
learn but to frank's point likewe don't know that, because it's
like when I show up in thecourt, like in a corporate
setting, I don't bring the likemy inner self.
You know the corporate setting,that's true, because like
they're not ready for that,you're not ready for that, but
he's an artist I'm an artist atsome point as an actor he's
still an artist, though.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, at some point as a artist, you're going to
represent part of who you arethrough your art, that's very
self-reflective or something youjust reporting, as you see, and
that's where hip-hop startedlike that.
So we don't know that.
But I can almost pretty muchguess that most of that shit he
learned the black culture aspectof who he is wasn't necessarily
about talking to some homies onthe steps all the time.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
And this is kind of like market research too, like
what we're doing right now,because being black is so
complex.
That was my main point.
It's like it's very complex.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
But I think to kind of move this conversation still
in the vein of creativity andculture, because we're touching
on that, well, let's literallytalk about more aspects around
dei, culture and even withsocial.
What's going on with social?
We know that we got certainplatforms like fan base.
They're kind of reaching out tothe culture, right being that a
lot of things have been kind ofrolled back at meta.
(32:56):
We don't have to get into thedetails of that, but you know
the zuck kind of letting youguys know that he's going along
with getting rid of all this DEI, not even just that, he's
actually getting rid of a bunchof things around fat checking.
So now, even the mere fact thatyou're going to be on Meta,
people can literally come anddebunk your history or who you
are by saying that what you'resaying is not true, right?
(33:17):
So how do we feel?
Speaker 6 (33:19):
about it.
Well, just to correct notcorrect that, but to add that
he's going to do community notessimilar to that Listen, tayson,
fuck them.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
notes Like there's a lot of dumb people online.
Okay, like if we are sayingthat the community which is a
lot of dumb people andpotentially are bots, they're
not even real people,potentially.
I'm just saying so what we'resaying right, I'm just adding
context brown people, whomever,you know, this DEI aspect of
culture in these socialplatforms that has more or less
(33:48):
made all these platforms a lotof money and create a lot of
data.
How do we feel about that?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Y'all don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
No.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I mean it's a good point.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
Actually, I think I kind of missed the real question
.
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Well, the question is this right being that somebody
like Mark Zuckerberg has decidedto roll back DEI very publicly
he kind of go the way of thewind as well as getting rid of
fact-checking how do we feelabout our culture impacting or
building his platform, for thatmatter, and now that he's kind
of like turning a back on all ofthat, how do we feel about it?
(34:27):
I?
Speaker 6 (34:28):
mean, I think, looking at it from a business
perspective, as my brother Josemight say, we don't own this
shit, so it's like it's not ours.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's true.
So at what point do we stopgiving away shit?
Speaker 6 (34:40):
we don't own, I don't know.
We like to give away the sauce.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know what I'm saying like, like, like I mean,
and that's behavior like like Ifeel like, I feel like you know
we can.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
We can look back at a lot of times in in culture,
life, hip-hop, whatever wherewe've just given the sauce away
for free for some photos or forsome clout, quote, unquote clout
recognition and we give it away.
Some people are smart enough tobe like yo let me get a check
for this Monetize and monetize,but like a lot of times, like
(35:13):
you know, we, like I, just lookat it like we don't own it.
So like I think, what was thatapp that was popular during
COVID and people were justspeaking Clubhouse Clubhouse
during um covet and people werejust speaking clubhouse
clubhouse people people wereupset about that.
I mean, I think it floppedeventually, but they got
evaluated at like close to abillion just now, just because
(35:36):
black people were talking shitand doing a lot of stuff, a lot
of stuff that you see now onpodcasts about relationships,
all that other shit.
But it's like you know, I Iremember saying people be upset
like yo, we made it hot, blah,blah, blah.
But my thing I almost say isthis um, for people who say
black people make we do, mix uphot, but yo, if you made hove,
(35:57):
make another hove.
That's all I'm saying like,like, if we could do that on
these, on these uh platformsthat aren't owned by us, if we
can make it, then like, let'sget something black popping.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I think what happens is just from the business
perspective, like what does thismean for businesses?
Right?
I mean you look at X, twitter,x, whatever you want to call it.
Right, there's a lot of Twitter.
Right, there's a lot ofadvertisers that do not jump
into that space and sponsor anykind of content because of the
(36:29):
brand safety.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
They don't sue a lot of ad companies for that.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
Who.
I mean he announced the lawsuit.
I don't know, actually.
I'll look it up.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I don't know if he actually but I mean he's, he
also doesn't, he doesn't comefrom a marketing background,
right.
So it's like the reality is, if, hey, there's hate speech,
right, right, and in my ad isrunning next to hate speech,
people are going to come back tomy marketing brand, coming back
to me as a brand, say, hey,you're sponsoring hate speech,
so this is why.
(36:59):
Or if there's like porn, right,it's like, and you have ads
running next to it.
So I mean, all all of these,these guardrails are put in
place purposely, right,purposely, so people don't come
back and say, and to your brandsaying, yo, man, this is what
you're sponsoring, like nah, we,we, we off this.
You know what I'm saying.
(37:19):
So I think the same thingapplies to zuck, right.
Like, once you start lettingpeople tell lies, uh, you start
letting people, you know, saywhat they want to say, and then
you see those numbers go down,then you'll rethink it, because
this is america and it's allabout that dollar.
It's about that dollar, and youknow so and just to jump in.
Speaker 6 (37:39):
um just quick look out, it seems like um some of
the lawsuits that elon uh put onadvertisers have been dropped.
Some are still ongoing, but sofar the only people who are
winning are the lawyers.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And he still owe people money.
Yeah, broke boy.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's funny.
Are you about to say something?
No, all right.
So listen, I think that kind ofwraps up this thing around
culture and creativity.
So I mean, that's what it isRepresentation, comeback of the
analog.
I mean, listen, you know, Ithink at this point we kind of
going to be seeing where theseplatforms are going.
We're seeing what culture is.
I mean, it's kind of like MAGAor nothing, or it's kind of like
(38:18):
I'm just checking the fuck outbecause I'm tired of fighting.
So I guess this is like acontinuous conversation when it
comes down to culture and impact.
But I think we can move on nowto like this part around the
intersection of technology andcreativity.
We've covered a lot about AI,so I don't think we need to get
more into that.
But this idea that crypto,crypto is really making, oddly
(38:39):
enough, a huge comeback.
You know, the current presidentrolled out his own coin.
His wife rolled out a coin.
Yeah, the wife rolled out acoin.
Yeah, the hot tour got a coin.
Yeah, I mean, the pastor whowas at the inauguration do had a
coin.
So it seems that crypto, moreor less, is becoming like a
great marketing tool, a greatconsumer engagement tool and,
let's be real, it's a great wayto.
(38:59):
You know scam people money.
It's just keeping it beingright, but I mean any
perspectives on that.
You know scam people money.
That's just keeping it beingright, but I mean any
perspectives on that.
Have you guys been payingattention to like how this
crypto aspect is making like a2.0 comeback post the whole FTX
implosion and, oddly enough, samactually made people money
ironically doing that wholefiasco FTX?
(39:20):
But any thoughts on that?
Speaker 6 (39:22):
I think to quote the great Matthew McConaughey from
Wolf of Wall Street, great movieit's all Fugazi.
It's all Fugazi Like it's allin the wind.
Like you know, I'm just like,like.
I think, obviously, like youknow, when you cash out the
money is real.
You know the thing that we'retrading is real, but I think
it's like, I mean I guess,similar to American currency.
(39:44):
It's kind of trading just onthe idea of money.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
But it's opaque, though.
Speaker 6 (39:49):
You don't know who's pulling what, right?
But I mean, my whole thing isthat I don't want to get into a
big crypto convo because I stillneed to kind of understand a
little bit more, but I just Idon't understand what it's
backed by.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
The idea that it seems to be backed by the idea
that it's valuable and that youcan bypass the banking systems.
Okay, right, this idea that is.
Speaker 6 (40:11):
So are they selling an idea and maybe we need a
crypto expert.
But like, are they selling anidea.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, I mean, okay, think about the coin.
The coin is this I justacquired a new position.
I became president.
Right, I got a lot of powerRight, a whole lot of influence
Right.
This guy's face is everywhere.
He's the most powerful man onthe planet.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
People buy into the idea of access to him and this
idea that everything he touchedjust turns to gold, right, so
it's this idea.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Or gold plated, it's essentially like his toilets to
gold, right, so it's this idealof this perception.
Or gold-plated, essentiallylike it's toilets.
It's gilded.
But what they're buying intosupposedly is this future of
being able to have, I guess,value of this earning.
It's kind of you know, it'skind of like some sucker shit,
like hey, you know you get it'skind any investment.
Speaker 6 (41:01):
You're investing in the hopes that you'll make some
money later.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
But it's funny because now these coins really
have no real utility, butthey're being used to engage
audiences, to dump money into itright, as well as get a lot of
data, because again, they'regetting a bunch of crypto data
that's not there and it's beingexchanged on Ethereum, but it's
also being used to more or lessget money.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Yeah, did any of y'all get the big T coin?
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I didn't get the big T coin, because I know at some
point it's going to crash.
It's a sucker's game, I mean ifyou get it early you might be
all right.
But the earliest are peoplewho's a part of setting it up,
not the people who invest in itearly Right.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
Well, yeah, that's true, right, yeah, well, yeah
that's true, yeah, so I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I mean again, I do think the genius of this guy is
that he know how to get peopleto believe in something that
seemingly don't even exist.
He's a he's a.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
I mean just to kind of shift really quick, and this
is we're not supporting anypolitical party, but I do want
to say you know, you have tolook at and this could be
another episode but hats off toyou know Trump's, he's a
personality.
If you look at everything froma marketing perspective, you
know he's done stuff where he'smarketed himself and aligned
(42:17):
himself and obviously there's alot of other intricacies with
you know him winning him and youknow Republicans winning the
presidency.
But from literally juststrictly marketing perspective,
he has these one-liners that areunfortunately hilarious
sometimes they're eating thedogs.
When he was debating andtalking about Haiti, it feels
(42:39):
like wrestling, yeah, it's likeWWE and it's just like you know
(43:12):
he's found this niche way tobasically, you know like it
looks like he's making a a boldmove, but he's just I think he's
done more than throwing shit tothe wall sometimes.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think he's done more than the base he's figured
out how to democratize that.
Thinking like maggot is nolonger just a group of people,
it's a mindset yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:26):
It's a real mindset, it's a movement.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I've seen Hotel Brothers investing in this coin.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Yeah, Right.
So I mean Well, that'sdifferent, that could be a money
thing, that could just be likeyo.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
I'm just trying to pay yeah.
No soft talk when it comes totelling the truth.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
Yeah, man, thanks for joining us Protect your neck,
join us again on the next pod.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Peace, peace, peace.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
Thanks for tuning in to the Ad Bros Podcast.
If you enjoyed the episode,don't forget to forget to like,
subscribe and share it with yourcrew.
Catch us next time for moreinsights and creativity, right
here on the adbros podcastpowered by caffeine media
network.
See you soon.
Well, I think they kind of put a blow on the whole
evolution of advertising.
You know, we see that.
You know there's going to bethis big AI revolution.
It's obviously a bigconsolidation.
We could talk about theconsolidation, right, because we
saw a couple of holdingcompanies and a few advertising
agencies Talking about combiningright.
Right, you want to talk aboutit?
Yeah, we can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I think, just jumping into that though, like what's,
I think, what springboarded,that is the conversation around
data.
Yeah, true, so I think that alot of this, and we're talking
about the- acquisition of.
Omnicom and IPG yeah.
I mean come so for some context.
Omnicom Acquired IPG and themcoming together has made them
(01:04):
the the largest holders.
It will make them the largestholding company and advertising
in the world.
Because I feel like before thatit was like WPP and then I feel
like Publicis uh, they, theyedged them out, um, from a
billings perspective, uh.
And so now Publicis had like alittle good run for a small time
(01:24):
and now this acquisition whichhas to, it's still not finalized
.
I feel like it finalizes likein May or June, so it still
could fall through right.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I think it's going to happen.
We in that era of you know yeah, but just to kind of tap back
into it.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So, from a data perspective, publicis acquired
Epsilon and what they were ableto do.
Artur and his crew was able tosay no, we need to have this
across all of our businesses.
And they were able to get itrolling, this data platform,
rolling like much quicker and ata larger scale.
(02:00):
Within the company, whathappens?
The stocks go up.
So now they're doing good,they're showing growth.
Ipg already had it going, butthey weren't able to, you know,
get it done as quick.
So now OMD I mean, excuse me,omnicom is saying like, wow,
publicist has blown us out ofthe water.
(02:21):
From a data perspective, weneed to do something about it.
And that's what kind of broughtthis conversation together.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
Interesting.
I mean I thought it was more so.
You know bigger agencies justtrying to keep the lights on.
Like I think I mean there's onlyso much, so much fish in the
sea, so much, so much food thatwe can.
You know that agencies can fishfor out in the sea, so much, so
much food that we could, youknow, that agencies can fish for
out in the water.
And I think you know one of thebiggest things that that
(02:49):
they're gonna be doing isobviously consolidating
departments, people, names andand it's and it's interesting
because so many people who leftpublicist, um, sorry, so many
people who let, left ipg or wentto omnicom or the opposite, you
know, they were like trying toget away.
Right now it's like, hey, man,coming back to, coming back home
(03:12):
, which is which is interesting,and I think you know well, I
mean, obviously there there'salways, um, you know, these kind
of shifts in advertising.
So it'll, it'll be interestingto see, kind of once the I don't
want to say the heads startrolling, but people start
getting, you know, those Brownboxes, I was going to say those
(03:33):
HR, those 9 am HR meetings.
Because look like I saw on AdAge.
Ad Age had an article.
I only read the headline.
I didn't read the whole thing,but the headline was you know,
read the headline.
I didn't read the whole thing,but the headline was you know,
according to ad age, that theceo of uh interpublic group ipg,
philippe krakowski, is lookingto receive a severance of 49
(03:54):
million dollars golden parachuteand he is allegedly being
promised a uh you know positionwhen he gets hired at omnicom,
which is crazy Again.
Hey, more power to him.
You did whatever you did to getto that position.
And again, this is maybe mebeing a person of the people,
(04:17):
but there's so many people,obviously, that are going to be
producers, head of productions,head of accounts, that are
probably great and they willprobably keep their job.
But there's people who are goodat their job who won't get.
I'm not saying they need $49million, but it's crazy that you
can give someone $49 millionand tell everybody else like yo,
we can't even, you know, wecan't even give you three months
(04:38):
severance or we can't even giveyou six months.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
You know, because in reality with that is very
similar to Game of Thrones.
When winter's coming, ai iscoming.
So, they're like you know what,let me cash out.
Yeah, I got to cash out.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Let's bring our forces together and figure this
thing out.
But my problem is, too, is justlike just what.
I don't want to get into toomany different types, but just
like with boomers, take that andretire, take that money and
retire and then let the nextgeneration take the helm.
But instead I'm going to juststay here.
$49 million at, I'm sure he'slike close to $70 million what
(05:18):
are you going to do with that?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Not to pocket watch.
I'm just saying what are yougoing to do with that?
Go on a beach somewhere.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
He's probably going probably run for president.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Anyway, you're not from harlem no, you're kind of
petty.
Speaker 6 (05:29):
No, I mean queens brothers, you know we a little
petty, but yeah I mean even, andI get you say they should
retire.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And it's weird because the generations behind
us, they won't be able to attainthis thing called the american
dream.
Supposedly that caused like 4.4million dollars now to get to
acquire the American dream.
Right and we can break thatdown.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Who's got time to do?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
that Nobody.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
You're going to work till you drop and look at all
right, just to jump in.
Sorry to cut you off, I guessto cut you off, but like, like,
look at the housing andeverything that's going on in
California and in Florida withthe weather, yeah, but with the
weather.
It's just like you could buyyour dream home and then boom.
I mean and again not to soundall morbid, but I'm just saying,
like you could put your lifeand your love into your dream
(06:09):
home, and then insurancecompanies will say yo, we not,
we not covering that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Well, america doesn't start until you start losing,
losing things.
So that's true.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
We can get back to the spot called wealth.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
They basically said that America's dream cost is
going to be a total of $4.4million for your entire life,
right?
Speaker 6 (06:26):
That doesn't count.
Family like raising a family.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
It does, it does.
This is how it breaks downRaising children ironically,
that's the first point Raisingchildren and paying for college
you're talking about.
From the time they're born tothe time they graduate.
You're probably going to spend$832,172 per child to $72 per
child, right, if you're intopets I don't have a dog because
it costs too much money, but ifyou want a pet, you're probably
going to have multiple pets overyour life.
(06:50):
I feel about $36,000 in petsthat's a lot of dogs, bro.
Okay, then if you're talkingabout, like, annual vacations,
right, just over a course ofyour life, you're going to spend
about 179 000 just on vacations, right, you know then, if you
say it's safe for retirement nowI know that's working at a
(07:11):
retirement company currently asa xd uh principal designer.
Yeah, you're going to needanywhere from like 1.5 to 2
million just to live comfortableright, to buy these high-ass
eggs in retirement.
So you're going to need about$2 million plus to retire.
Nice, and that's just you.
Maybe you got a partner orsignificant other or whatever,
(07:33):
so probably double that if youwant to do it like that.
If you're talking aboutspending money on your home,
owning a home and putting moneyinto it, you're going to have to
spend roughly about $922,000over the duration of your life.
And owning cars, that's roughlyabout like $811,000.
So you're saying over a courseof like 40, 50 years you're
(07:57):
going to spend about $4.4million if you're here in
America.
So yeah, buckle up, baby You'regoing to need it.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
This American dream?
Whose dream is this?
Because, man, when I startseeing those, bills racking up
like that.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's the dream they marketed Right exactly.
Well, it's the dream that wesell in this world of marketing
Like.
Speaker 6 (08:15):
Valentine's Day is coming up, so you know it's time
for us to Get your mouth, yougot to start cooking.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
No, no, I'm just saying from an advertising
marketing perspective.
Like do you know that Americaonly stays afloat by way of the
holidays that we market and sell?
So like we would hit a deficitif we don't see the numbers go
up before Valentine's Day or wedon't see the numbers go up for
Christmas, of course,President's Day weekend sales.
(08:41):
Easter.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And all enough.
If Americans just don't spend,everything would just plummet in
price.
All this inflation wouldliterally disappear overnight.
But we're just trained to spend.
It's the American way.
It's the American way.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Just to wrap up, the IPG thing, I think, another
prediction.
I think everyone's going tofigure it out, but I honestly
think independent shops aregoing to be.
If you care about creativity,independent shops will be where
it's at, like places like Wiedenand Kennedy, mother, semitu and
(09:17):
Sunny or Droga.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Those are some of the Well Droga's no longer
independent?
Oh, they're not.
They're owned by Accenture.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Oh, by Accenture.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
All right, Well take them off the list, or some of
the Well.
Drugs are no longer independent?
Oh, they're not.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
They're owned by Accenture, oh, by Accenture.
All right, well, take them offthe list.
But I think that's going to bekind of where, if you care about
making something creative andchanging the world, blah, blah,
blah, that's going to be whereyou want to go.
If you just care about punchingin, collecting a check, maybe
doing something cool andcreative, then these larger
(09:44):
agencies will be for you.
But you know you'll be, you'llbe a meat.
I'm not going to say small.
You might be a medium fish,large pond, or you could be a
big fish in a big pond, becausea lot of independent agencies
are not small.
I just want to be clear.
Like I think people who aren'tin the industry may not, you
know, realize it, but when youare at these medium to midsize
(10:08):
agencies that are independent, alot of them do a lot and they
do have big.
They have a big reach in termsof, like, just brick and mortar
places and they're making coolshit.
So, like I mean, right nowthat's where I want to be.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah, and it's interesting that you say that
too, even from a client'sperspective, like, I think
clients, some clients wouldprefer to deal with those
smaller agencies.
They don't want to get caughtup in the shuffle of like this
one RFP and like you got allthese big wigs coming at you and
also too just to drop the dimereal quick, because maybe I am
from harlem.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
But like, like, like these large agencies are doing
stuff.
They double dipping in the, inthe funds, they're forcing their
, their, their brands and theseclients to um work with uh kind
of internal resources andthey're basically billing it
like come on, dog, like I meanyou know.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, I mean making the money work and they sell it
in, like they sell you thisdream.
It's in the scope of work.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah, right yo we got people in new york.
We got team in london.
We got it.
We could be.
They're selling you for 24hours.
They're like yo, we could dothis shit 24 hours.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
But they'll tell you oh we, well, we have an
associate, we have a seniorassociate and a manager to do it
, and then when they get thebusiness, they'm like, oh shit,
we can't do this or they only.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
Yeah, they got you and one other person and you
don't know that you got threeroles.
Well, look let's?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
let's take a quick break, um, because this this is
a great segue to the next topicaround creativity and culture
and how that's gonna play out.
I do want to get, uh, brotherfrancis on the call so we can
take a time to just kind of takea break and punch him in.
How about that?
Yeah, let's do that, I bet.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Master Lord, please Thank you, my lord.
Master Lord, a game of chess islike a sword fight.
You must think first before youmove.
(12:12):
My lord, a handsome sword.
Do you think your wu-tang swordcan defeat me?
I came here tonight to playchess.
Nobody ever mentioned anythingabout a sword fight.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
What's good people?
We're back from break, justwant to, you know, punch in
Brother Francis.
So what's going on with you,sir?
We back.
How you doing man.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
I'm good bro.
Thank you for punching me in.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, man, the brothers just caught up on a
couple different things.
We basically talked about somepersonal journeys over these
last three years, because thelast time we actually recorded,
you hosted and it was cool.
It was very chill.
You covered a bunch ofdifferent topics.
One of the things you talkedabout was like you started a
company around Seat at the Table.
You brought up a coupledifferent topics around
(13:03):
predictions, around the currentpresident and a bunch of other
things.
So we just want to see howyou're doing, man, and see
what's going on before we jumpinto some other things around
creativity and culture.
Speaker 7 (13:15):
Man, I've been good over the last what three, four
years, or whatever.
Yeah three years.
Yeah, it's just been a lot ofhustling.
Man just hustling on the frontend, back end side hustles
different companies.
I've been working on Plus, likeyou know, my regular day to day
advertising gig, so you know,black men don't really ever get
(13:39):
a day off.
No, you don't, man, I'm alwaysdoing something.
Plus, you know, in between allof that other stuff, I try to
enjoy my life and my time onthis planet, been on a few trips
seeing more to earth and, um,yeah, man, I'm just living, man,
I'm I'm super blessed, can'treally complain about a lot.
(14:00):
Man, yeah, I'm happy to bereconnecting with you all, to
get on here and talk some shit.
I'm gonna try.
I said my new year's resolution, uh, I'm gonna try to reduce my
cursing.
So I know I just cursed, I justbroke that, but I'm gonna try
to keep it clean for the rest of, uh, this recording okay,
(14:20):
that's cool, man um, because Idon't.
I don't want it to to take awayfrom any of my intellectual,
introspective, thought-provokingcommentary, no doubt by putting
an MF on top of stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, but sometimes you just gotta say, motherfucker
, it's kind of like SamuelJackson, right?
I think it's a black thing.
Speaker 7 (14:41):
It is African-American urban setting
nuance that we love.
Mf.
Yeah, only we can say it.
If you hear somebody white sayit it's like oh my god, what do
you say?
Speaker 6 (14:57):
that's true, almost almost repulsive that's funny.
I remember I was watching.
I was watching, um, uh, chrisrock's top five and I remember
he was doing a radio promo andthe white white guy was like yo
put some stank on it and he didsome shit like that, where he's
just like this is themotherfucking blah, blah, blah.
It was just funny, but yeah,man, it was good.
(15:19):
Francis, how you doing, man?
This is Tony.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
Yo, what's up, bro?
How are you?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I'm good.
I'm good if a white guy saidput some steak on it to you,
what would you say, bro, my?
Response would be very blackand say I'll slap the shit out.
Oh my god, I think only blackpeople say that I've never heard
anyone from any other ethnicityor race say I'll slap the shit
out, you, even if you don't doit.
It's just a black thing to say.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
Yeah, it's a forewarning.
That is very black it is.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So, francis, check it man.
Like I said, we basicallycovered a couple different
topics.
We talked about the evolutionof advertising, we kind of
jumped in.
You know, obviously the topicof the day is AI, right, so you
know we ain't really got to getthat deep.
But some of the differentagencies, we talked about this
thing around ethics inadvertising, especially when it
comes to DEI and these differentrollbacks of those programs.
(16:14):
I want to get your perspectiveson that because we know that
those type of I guess, issuesand policies and rollback of
these programs is definitelygoing to affect creativity and
culture when it comes to design,advertising and the whole
commercial world.
So I want to just get your pointof view on that.
Speaker 7 (16:32):
I mean, I think, even when I think about the rollback
on any of that stuff, the firstthing I think about is just the
economy of people of color,right, Right.
So like, if you're rolling backprograms like that, you're
cutting jobs.
You're, you know, cuttingsupplier or budget mandates that
(16:52):
may have been earmarked.
So the first thing I thinkabout is I think about the
attack on the economy of peopleof color right and specifically
black folks, because you know weusually have less than
everybody, right?
um?
So you know, when I hear aboutall of that, those cutbacks, I
think about, like, what theimmediate and long term effect
is.
And a long term effect, and theshort term effect too, is just
(17:16):
less.
We're getting less and less ofthe pie.
So I think that you know thepivot is is like trying to, like
, be as smart as possible andand, and you know, being forward
thinking right and it and Iwant to jump in there too, just
to add uh to what francis issaying.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
You know, I I do.
It is a little disappointing tosee how dei hasn't has evolved
to, to a term sort of like woke,like.
I think a lot of people havetaken it and evolved it.
Because I just want to be clear, dei is not.
I mean, obviously it helps alot of people of color and black
people, but it's not just blackpeople, it's race, it's gender,
(17:59):
it's sexual orientation, it'sage, because in our industry,
specifically advertising, it'slike ageism.
And it's religion.
So I think a lot of peopleoutside of maybe the industry or
or any industry that includesdei might think like oh yeah,
we're we're just um cutting jobsfrom black people who probably
(18:22):
didn't deserve it.
But it's more than that.
It might even include 100.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, cause I was.
I was just waiting for everyoneto go.
I was going to mention that too, and I feel like the reason
that is is because black peopleare on the front line for
everything.
So, like, even you know, if, ifthey want to test something, if
it's cool, if it's not cool, oror Like you know, you have in
the classroom and someone justlike looking at that one person
(18:48):
and they're going to, they'regoing to all look at black
people.
Like if you look at civilrights, like I mean, think about
that, like everyone benefitedoff of that, but that was, you
know, a fight by way of blackpeople.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
So when you look at the footage, you see brothers
getting dogs and hoses on them.
You don't see Latinos or Asians.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
So now you so?
So there, you got the blackpeople doing the work, yeah, and
then once the work is done,everyone else benefit falls in.
So it's like you know, andnobody wants to be fodder-
anymore right, right yeah, Imean according to the new
administration.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
Um, you know, dei is gone, dei died honestly I think
I, I think DEI died in at least22.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Are you saying when they actually gave Juneteenth a
real?
Speaker 6 (19:36):
holiday.
I think well, I don't want tosay that.
That was the pivot.
But I want to say, like mypersonal opinion, I started to
see a lot of companies just careless and less about, you know,
following up with the policy,less about worrying about where
the budget goes.
And you know I can sayfirsthand I saw, you know, I saw
(19:57):
when companies were saying like, hey, like if you're, if you're
bidding a job, you have to havea diverse amount of bidders.
Because you know I don't knowif you guys do in the media, but
I know in production we triplebid, which is basically just to
make sure you get a fair number.
You know you bid it with threedifferent people, three
different companies, just tomake who could do the job,
(20:17):
someone that's probably blackperson of color, poc, what they
would like to say?
Um, and then I just started tosee, at least by 2022, they were
(20:41):
just like they don't care, justbring whoever you want.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's 2025 now right, we hear these programs roll back
.
So a cat like me from Atlanta,georgia, born and raised there,
my first take on DEI was notcalled DEI, it was, like, really
called affirmative action.
A person like Maynard Jackson,as an example, new mayor in a
city that's trying to make, Iguess, a foot for itself, right,
(21:05):
like create a good footprintfor itself, trying to be a major
player on this world stage,basically was saying that you
know, for like, the airport atthe time was kind of like a
Mayor Currier airport.
You talking about Hartsfield,basically wanted to become a
bigger airport.
So the goal that he helped toset was, like you know, so many
contracts would have to bediverse.
(21:34):
It couldn't just be a bunch ofyou know good old boy white guys
bidding on trying to build outthe airport.
He got people like HJ Russell,who would come out and pour all
the runway concrete for theseplanes to land, and a bunch of
other like local businesses,like Pascal's and other smaller
businesses to be like some ofthese inaugural businesses,
black businesses to help buildout the airport back in the late
70s.
So a guy like him had foresightof how to use, at the time
(21:55):
affirmative action to help buildblack wealth in a city like
Atlanta, georgia, and we'restill seeing the benefits of
that literally four or fivedecades later.
So I do think this idea of DEImaybe being rolled back is one
thing, but I do think there'sstill power in local
municipalities, even certaincompanies like Costco.
(22:16):
They're like F you, we're goingto do what we want Our
customers like this.
We're not going to rock theboat and you guys can do what
you want and you know what'scrazy.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
What you know.
What's crazy about all this?
What In what?
What's crazy about all this?
What in what day is today, 20and 26, in about five days?
All these companies that?
Speaker 7 (22:36):
roll back dei.
Yeah, black history month, yeah.
I don't even think, I don'teven think those companies are
going to acknowledge it notenough.
Oh, that'll be interesting ifyou if you noticed, over like
the last, I would say, 10 yearsor so, it's like black history
month is getting smaller andsmaller, uh like awareness and
conversation around it.
Right, like you see, somebrands still do stuff around it,
(22:57):
but for the most part, uh, Idon't think so.
You see way more pride umactivations and, like you know,
uh, media around pride versusblack history month.
Like black history month, Ifeel like it's actually going
like the way of the dinosaur,wow yeah, yeah, I mean I also,
and and not even, not even justum, from like a corporate
(23:22):
standpoint.
I just think even black peopleas a culture, I don't think we
care about Black historymovement, Do you think, because
you know we're kind of.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
it seems like you know these companies are only
talking to us this time of yearand they're pandering, which
they do that with every other,you know, I guess holiday, but
specifically, black historystarted as a week and it turned
into a month.
But do you think it's Francis?
Do you think it's around, like?
Do you think it's around, like?
Do we feel that these guys arejust pandering?
They just kind of throwingmoney, but they don't really
mean anything what you mean whenthey do acknowledge.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
Yeah, like you know, only this time of year I, I
don't, I don't know if they, ifthey're pandering, I mean maybe,
but I I think that it's just,it's kind of like one of those
tent poles, right, it's anopportunity for them to make
money around something right.
So, just like how, like overthe last maybe five years or so,
(24:16):
like you see, way more lunarnew year stuff, mm-hmm, like I
never even knew what lunar newyear was 10 years ago and I
lived in fucking new york, right, right, um.
But now, like you see, like um,I mean I actually just saw
something on uh the ralph laurensite.
There's like all types of lunarnew year stuff for uh the ralph
(24:38):
lauren is doing and he's heactually even did like something
for black history month, I feellike last year.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Oh yeah, he did that whole capsule, the design
capsule, with the uh designerright, and then he had like the
little buttons that was like uh,uh, in in the colors too, and
he did the more house.
I think it was like the hbcu,uh, kind of capsule with like
the style, like it was like thesweaters and all that stuff was
dope that that didn't come outin black history month.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah so real quick.
But I mean, at the end of theday, too, it's like a company is
looking for another point ofentry to making money, Right
yeah.
So you know, if black people asa whole aren't talking about
Black History Month and aren'tpushing it within our culture,
then why would a company latchon to that as an opportunity to
make money?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
So real quick quick.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
If the main demographic doesn't really care
about it.
I don't think they're gonnacare about it rosé, you say yeah
, yeah so.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
So that's an interesting point that you uh
brought up.
Francis, I'm gonna call youfrank right so so no, that's an
interesting point that you bringup, because when you're saying
like like I'm hearing, like weand us and culture, and like
when we're saying black people,but I think the thing is black
history is more geared towardsAmerican history.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It is right.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And so it's American history, right?
So then, when you have peoplefrom different places who are
black, right, but being blackdoesn't really mean as much to
me, because everywhere I go inthis place it's black people.
So it makes me think about that, right, because that's a really
good point that he brought up,like how black people don't
really care about it, and Ithink it's certain pockets that
(26:20):
don't really care, because ifI'm from a place and the
government is black, everywhereI go it's like 95 black.
When I go to america, like whywould I care about this?
Speaker 7 (26:31):
like back home everyone's black, right, so I
didn't, but don't, you, don'teven think about it like that
though like, like, like,honestly think about people that
you know in your circle, right,I guarantee.
You take 10 black people rightnow between the eight let's,
let's do it like media 25 to 49years old, and you ask 10 black
(26:51):
people, um, who medgar evers was, or um, or shit.
Nikki giovanni just died rightask 10 black people between 25
and 49.
You might get six black peopleor five black people who know
who she was but.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But my question is why?
Why do you think that is?
Though, that's what, that'swhat I'm kind of getting to the
why why you think I think.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
I think it's a, it's a lack of knowledge itself,
right?
I think that, like we, we'vebeen bombarded with so much
other shit that makes us notcare about like you know who we
are, where we're from, rightwhat our contributions to
America and society are.
I think all that has shifted.
(27:37):
I mean shit, I'm what?
45 now.
I think that that that startedprobably within the last 20 or
so years.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I'm going to add to that because, okay, I'm 48.
I got a cousin.
I'm not going to say who he is,he was like 18 at the time.
He's older now, but at the time, you know, this is when I lived
in Atlanta before moving to NewYork, and this is kind of funny
I literally asked him thequestion of hey, so what city
was Martin Luther King born in?
Mind you, we in Atlanta, I'masking him this question, and he
(28:06):
couldn't do it.
I literally gave him the answerby asking the question.
But I had to think about it.
I'm like, ok, martin LutherKing was literally assassinated
eight years before I was born,right 68.
I'm born in 76.
That's eight years.
That's not a lot of time, right, my cousin born 10 years after
me, so he's a little bit morefar removed from that sense of
(28:28):
urgency of having to know aboutour history.
On top of, I think, to what um,you know, francis is saying of
brother frank, is that itdepends on where you're from, it
depends on how you learn abouthistory.
I'm from atlanta.
You just naturally see blackpeople everywhere, right, you
kind of see black history beingmade, but you also.
I learned most of the blackhistory I know, not from school.
(28:50):
I actually learned it from mycommunity, from my dad, my
parents, the coaches, the bandinstructor I mean most of my
band instructors.
They all went to HBCUs, soliving a black experience was
just seamless.
Now, that was my privilege.
I understand that there are alot of people from different
places don't have that privilege.
So learning about NikkiGiovanni, learning about the
(29:14):
nation, learning about thePanthers, learning about Mega
Everest, you know, or even FredHampton or any of these people
like, was just, it's just nottop of mind, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I guess I'm gonna land my plane with this, right,
what you got.
My original point was we'retalking about, like black
history and I'm saying inamerica, it means something
different to be black in americathan it means in other places,
because people from other placesthat happen to be black, they
lead with their ethnicity andtheir nationality.
In America, it's important toput race first before your
(29:49):
nationality and your ethnicity,right?
So when we're talking about Igrew up kind of the same way
where it's like no, you need toknow who Clarence 13X is, you
need to know who Elijah Muhammadis right.
That that's how I grew up barakaright right but someone coming
from somewhere else.
(30:10):
It's like well, yeah, I'm black, but like it oh, they look at
it as just american it's justlike.
It's like well, I'm, I'mjamaican, right, nobody leads,
and I'm black jamaican.
So what I'm saying is I thinkthat plays a part in it.
To it too is like yeah, likeI'm, I'm just here.
I'm just here, like I here's agood example of that.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
You take Drake right?
Yeah, drake is a good exampleof a person who learned black
history through rap music.
He never really learned aboutblackness because he grew up
Jewish.
He didn't grow up around hisdad right he really grew up
around his mom.
He learned who his dad was overa period of time.
But if you think about hiswhole ethos, to learn about that
black experience was throughrap music, not through books,
(30:54):
not through talking tointellects or normal people like
us.
Right, he learned through rapmusic, black culture.
Speaker 7 (31:01):
Do we know that, though, bro?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh, we know that.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
You can just listen to the shitty rapper.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
But I'm just saying we've seen it and we can
speculate we know, I mean hisfather, his uncles.
Speaker 7 (31:10):
They are they, they, they are like us, like they're.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
They're regular good memphis dudes right right we
don't know if you spent summersdown there, bro yeah, I think, I
think I think what ad is sayingand is like, based on what he
said and interviews when he wason degrassi and how he carried
himself, um, you know, in a morekind of posh way, you can
(31:36):
speculate.
I'm not saying it did happen,but I'm saying you could
speculate that later on in lifeis when he, kind of like,
adopted that and learned.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
But I agree with you, we don't know if he didn't
learn but to frank's point likewe don't know that, because it's
like when I show up in thecourt, like in a corporate
setting, I don't bring the likemy inner self.
You know the corporate setting,that's true, because like
they're not ready for that,you're not ready for that, but
he's an artist I'm an artist atsome point as an actor he's
still an artist, though.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, at some point as a artist, you're going to
represent part of who you arethrough your art, that's very
self-reflective or something youjust reporting, as you see, and
that's where hip-hop startedlike that.
So we don't know that.
But I can almost pretty muchguess that most of that shit he
learned the black culture aspectof who he is wasn't necessarily
about talking to some homies onthe steps all the time.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
And this is kind of like market research too, like
what we're doing right now,because being black is so
complex.
That was my main point.
It's like it's very complex.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
But I think to kind of move this conversation still
in the vein of creativity andculture, because we're touching
on that, well, let's literallytalk about more aspects around
dei, culture and even withsocial.
What's going on with social?
We know that we got certainplatforms like fan base.
They're kind of reaching out tothe culture, right being that a
lot of things have been kind ofrolled back at meta.
(32:56):
We don't have to get into thedetails of that, but you know
the zuck kind of letting youguys know that he's going along
with getting rid of all this DEI, not even just that, he's
actually getting rid of a bunchof things around fat checking.
So now, even the mere fact thatyou're going to be on Meta,
people can literally come anddebunk your history or who you
are by saying that what you'resaying is not true, right?
(33:17):
So how do we feel?
Speaker 6 (33:19):
about it.
Well, just to correct notcorrect that, but to add that
he's going to do community notessimilar to that Listen, tayson,
fuck them.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
notes Like there's a lot of dumb people online.
Okay, like if we are sayingthat the community which is a
lot of dumb people andpotentially are bots, they're
not even real people,potentially.
I'm just saying so what we'resaying right, I'm just adding
context brown people, whomever,you know, this DEI aspect of
culture in these socialplatforms that has more or less
(33:48):
made all these platforms a lotof money and create a lot of
data.
How do we feel about that?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Y'all don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
No.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I mean it's a good point.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
Actually, I think I kind of missed the real question
.
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Well, the question is this right being that somebody
like Mark Zuckerberg has decidedto roll back DEI very publicly
he kind of go the way of thewind as well as getting rid of
fact-checking how do we feelabout our culture impacting or
building his platform, for thatmatter, and now that he's kind
of like turning a back on all ofthat, how do we feel about it?
(34:27):
I?
Speaker 6 (34:28):
mean, I think, looking at it from a business
perspective, as my brother Josemight say, we don't own this
shit, so it's like it's not ours.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's true.
So at what point do we stopgiving away shit?
Speaker 6 (34:40):
we don't own, I don't know.
We like to give away the sauce.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know what I'm saying like, like, like I mean,
and that's behavior like like Ifeel like, I feel like you know
we can.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
We can look back at a lot of times in in culture,
life, hip-hop, whatever wherewe've just given the sauce away
for free for some photos or forsome clout, quote, unquote clout
recognition and we give it away.
Some people are smart enough tobe like yo let me get a check
for this Monetize and monetize,but like a lot of times, like
(35:13):
you know, we, like I, just lookat it like we don't own it.
So like I think, what was thatapp that was popular during
COVID and people were justspeaking Clubhouse Clubhouse
during um covet and people werejust speaking clubhouse
clubhouse people people wereupset about that.
I mean, I think it floppedeventually, but they got
evaluated at like close to abillion just now, just because
(35:36):
black people were talking shitand doing a lot of stuff, a lot
of stuff that you see now onpodcasts about relationships,
all that other shit.
But it's like you know, I Iremember saying people be upset
like yo, we made it hot, blah,blah, blah.
But my thing I almost say isthis um, for people who say
black people make we do, mix uphot, but yo, if you made hove,
(35:57):
make another hove.
That's all I'm saying like,like, if we could do that on
these, on these uh platformsthat aren't owned by us, if we
can make it, then like, let'sget something black popping.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I think what happens is just from the business
perspective, like what does thismean for businesses?
Right?
I mean you look at X, twitter,x, whatever you want to call it.
Right, there's a lot of Twitter.
Right, there's a lot ofadvertisers that do not jump
into that space and sponsor anykind of content because of the
(36:29):
brand safety.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
They don't sue a lot of ad companies for that.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
Who.
I mean he announced the lawsuit.
I don't know, actually.
I'll look it up.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I don't know if he actually but I mean he's, he
also doesn't, he doesn't comefrom a marketing background,
right.
So it's like the reality is, if, hey, there's hate speech,
right, right, and in my ad isrunning next to hate speech,
people are going to come back tomy marketing brand, coming back
to me as a brand, say, hey,you're sponsoring hate speech,
so this is why.
(36:59):
Or if there's like porn, right,it's like, and you have ads
running next to it.
So I mean, all all of these,these guardrails are put in
place purposely, right,purposely, so people don't come
back and say, and to your brandsaying, yo, man, this is what
you're sponsoring, like nah, we,we, we off this.
You know what I'm saying.
(37:19):
So I think the same thingapplies to zuck, right.
Like, once you start lettingpeople tell lies, uh, you start
letting people, you know, saywhat they want to say, and then
you see those numbers go down,then you'll rethink it, because
this is america and it's allabout that dollar.
It's about that dollar, and youknow so and just to jump in.
Speaker 6 (37:39):
um just quick look out, it seems like um some of
the lawsuits that elon uh put onadvertisers have been dropped.
Some are still ongoing, but sofar the only people who are
winning are the lawyers.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And he still owe people money.
Yeah, broke boy.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's funny.
Are you about to say something?
No, all right.
So listen, I think that kind ofwraps up this thing around
culture and creativity.
So I mean, that's what it isRepresentation, comeback of the
analog.
I mean, listen, you know, Ithink at this point we kind of
going to be seeing where theseplatforms are going.
We're seeing what culture is.
I mean, it's kind of like MAGAor nothing, or it's kind of like
(38:18):
I'm just checking the fuck outbecause I'm tired of fighting.
So I guess this is like acontinuous conversation when it
comes down to culture and impact.
But I think we can move on nowto like this part around the
intersection of technology andcreativity.
We've covered a lot about AI,so I don't think we need to get
more into that.
But this idea that crypto,crypto is really making, oddly
(38:39):
enough, a huge comeback.
You know, the current presidentrolled out his own coin.
His wife rolled out a coin.
Yeah, the wife rolled out acoin.
Yeah, the hot tour got a coin.
Yeah, I mean, the pastor whowas at the inauguration do had a
coin.
So it seems that crypto, moreor less, is becoming like a
great marketing tool, a greatconsumer engagement tool and,
let's be real, it's a great wayto.
(38:59):
You know scam people money.
It's just keeping it beingright, but I mean any
perspectives on that.
You know scam people money.
That's just keeping it beingright, but I mean any
perspectives on that.
Have you guys been payingattention to like how this
crypto aspect is making like a2.0 comeback post the whole FTX
implosion and, oddly enough, samactually made people money
ironically doing that wholefiasco FTX?
(39:20):
But any thoughts on that?
Speaker 6 (39:22):
I think to quote the great Matthew McConaughey from
Wolf of Wall Street, great movieit's all Fugazi.
It's all Fugazi Like it's allin the wind.
Like you know, I'm just like,like.
I think, obviously, like youknow, when you cash out the
money is real.
You know the thing that we'retrading is real, but I think
it's like, I mean I guess,similar to American currency.
(39:44):
It's kind of trading just onthe idea of money.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
But it's opaque, though.
Speaker 6 (39:49):
You don't know who's pulling what, right?
But I mean, my whole thing isthat I don't want to get into a
big crypto convo because I stillneed to kind of understand a
little bit more, but I just Idon't understand what it's
backed by.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
The idea that it seems to be backed by the idea
that it's valuable and that youcan bypass the banking systems.
Okay, right, this idea that is.
Speaker 6 (40:11):
So are they selling an idea and maybe we need a
crypto expert.
But like, are they selling anidea.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, I mean, okay, think about the coin.
The coin is this I justacquired a new position.
I became president.
Right, I got a lot of powerRight, a whole lot of influence
Right.
This guy's face is everywhere.
He's the most powerful man onthe planet.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
People buy into the idea of access to him and this
idea that everything he touchedjust turns to gold, right, so
it's this idea.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Or gold plated, it's essentially like his toilets to
gold, right, so it's this idealof this perception.
Or gold-plated, essentiallylike it's toilets.
It's gilded.
But what they're buying intosupposedly is this future of
being able to have, I guess,value of this earning.
It's kind of you know, it'skind of like some sucker shit,
like hey, you know you get it'skind any investment.
Speaker 6 (41:01):
You're investing in the hopes that you'll make some
money later.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
But it's funny because now these coins really
have no real utility, butthey're being used to engage
audiences, to dump money into itright, as well as get a lot of
data, because again, they'regetting a bunch of crypto data
that's not there and it's beingexchanged on Ethereum, but it's
also being used to more or lessget money.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Yeah, did any of y'all get the big T coin?
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I didn't get the big T coin, because I know at some
point it's going to crash.
It's a sucker's game, I mean ifyou get it early you might be
all right.
But the earliest are peoplewho's a part of setting it up,
not the people who invest in itearly Right.
Speaker 6 (41:41):
Well, yeah, that's true, right, yeah, well, yeah
that's true, yeah, so I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I mean again, I do think the genius of this guy is
that he know how to get peopleto believe in something that
seemingly don't even exist.
He's a he's a.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
I mean just to kind of shift really quick, and this
is we're not supporting anypolitical party, but I do want
to say you know, you have tolook at and this could be
another episode but hats off toyou know Trump's, he's a
personality.
If you look at everything froma marketing perspective, you
know he's done stuff where he'smarketed himself and aligned
(42:17):
himself and obviously there's alot of other intricacies with
you know him winning him and youknow Republicans winning the
presidency.
But from literally juststrictly marketing perspective,
he has these one-liners that areunfortunately hilarious
sometimes they're eating thedogs.
When he was debating andtalking about Haiti, it feels
(42:39):
like wrestling, yeah, it's likeWWE and it's just like you know
(43:12):
he's found this niche way tobasically, you know like it
looks like he's making a a boldmove, but he's just I think he's
done more than throwing shit tothe wall sometimes.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think he's done more than the base he's figured
out how to democratize that.
Thinking like maggot is nolonger just a group of people,
it's a mindset yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:26):
It's a real mindset, it's a movement.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I've seen Hotel Brothers investing in this coin.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Yeah, Right.
So I mean Well, that'sdifferent, that could be a money
thing, that could just be likeyo.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
I'm just trying to pay yeah.
No soft talk when it comes totelling the truth.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
Yeah, man, thanks for joining us Protect your neck,
join us again on the next pod.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Peace, peace, peace.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
Thanks for tuning in to the Ad Bros Podcast.
If you enjoyed the episode,don't forget to forget to like,
subscribe and share it with yourcrew.
Catch us next time for moreinsights and creativity, right
here on the adbros podcastpowered by caffeine media
network.
See you soon.
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