Smallville Torch Exclusive #5 - Elliot & Harry White - Always Hold On To Smallville

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm John Glover.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I was Lionel Luthor on Smallville and I will always
always hold on to Smallville and I hope you all do.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Two. Welcome to Always hold on to Smallville. In this podcast,

(00:56):
we talk about each and every episode of the Young
Superman show. They were from two thousand and one twenty
eleven on the WB and the c W. Unless we don't.
It's another Smallville Torch exclusive number five and I'm drawn
by the co artistic directors of Foster Cat Productions, Elliott
and Harry White. What's up, guys, Hey, Hey, thanks for
having us.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
And good to be on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Absolutely so, you guys are brothers. That's kay. Who's older?
Who's younger?

Speaker 4 (01:23):
I usually asked people to guess, but since there's no
since there's no video here, I'll save you that trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's me, Okay, so Elliott is bait. I said, who's older?
Who's younger?

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Ellis and I said, it's me. Oh Goshio, you can tell.
You can tell them? Really experienced in the podcast world.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
No, Absolutely so. Shout out to our Michel from Victoria
Malay who connected us. Love Victoria, great contributor to the show,
great friend and connected us and you guys are putting
on a musical It's a bird, It's a planet Superman
for Foster Cat Productions. So tell us how you got
into the theater industry and started Foster Cat.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, oh it's really this is simple.

Speaker 5 (02:04):
As my mom when we play football growing up, so
I got the you know we did. Uh, this is
another superhero connection on Superman are The youth theater that
I grew up with was run by Chris Evans family. Okay,
so his sister was my drama teacher in high school.
His mother was directing our plays when we were younger,

(02:26):
and uh, and that youth theater program. We eventually went
off to do a lot of other educational theater, but
really sparked a love and an interest for theater, so
you know, eventually ended up going to theater school in
New York.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, and our parents were.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
Big proponents of the hearts or dad wanted to be
in a band.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Our mom loved musicals, so they just took us to it.
Since we've been growing up. Yeah, I mean we were kids.
I mean it was gonna it is gonna make us
seem like we're really young, but we were. We were
still kids. When we saw a Book of Mormon on
Broadway and uh.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
And so you know, we were kind of really inducted
into the cult of theater.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
I will not say that I'm a theater kid.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
That is a slur, but but uh no, I mean
like we really fell in love, fell in love with
the theater and for the for the theater company, for
Foster Cat Productions.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Uh uh. We went to a school, Atlantic Theater Company.
It's part of n y U H.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
And part of their program is they train you how
to how to make your own work in the industry,
in the entertainment industry, because it's a lot of times
it's easy to sit back on your haunches and wait
for opportunities and jobs and careers to come to you.
And and it's important, you know, for actors, for directors,
writers to know how to actually produce something. And so
I had a lot of the skills learned throughout Atlantic

(03:42):
and of my graduating class, I ran to be artistic
director and in one I don't know if one is
the right word, but I served as artisicupator for the
first year of our graduating theater company, where we did
two plays. One of them was in Atlantics, like off Broadways,
black Box Theater.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
This is all in New York City and.

Speaker 4 (04:01):
In the middle of my first year or like the
middle of pretty pretty like three fourths in my first
year was twenty twenty COVID pandemic, and so all of
theater was pretty much shut down, and uh, you know,
to skip a few details, we you know, we had
to shut down the show, and the theater company kind
of like took a little bit of a pause. We're
doing live performances. Harry was out here in LA. I

(04:22):
moved out here with him, and pretty quickly we came
out here because we auditioned for twin brothers in a
role in a pretty cool superhero movie. We didn't get it,
needless to say, but that was a really cool audition
and it was very early on into our careers, and
so we were like that, you know, we wanted to
move to LA and follow that rabbit a little bit.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
And once we were out here, you know, I mean,
when you're in when you're in.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
New York, everyone has everyone's doing theater. When you're in LA,
everyone's got a short film. So pretty quickly in LA,
we were like, wouldn't be interesting if we were the
guy if we were the idiots doing theater in the
film town. And so we we started doing theater out here.
And originally it just started as a way for us
to practice our craft and you know, you know, just
just keep ourselves enjoying, you know, the entertainment industry and

(05:05):
not not get so dejected.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
And pretty quickly people started to come to the shows.
And you know, we we we always you.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Know, we kept our ticket prices incredibly low because we
don't we really didn't like how you know, most tickets
are now like average ninety to one hundred and twenty bucks,
like and that's not that's not Broadway, you know, Broadways
even more so, you know, we we were just beating
shows that we wanted to do. So we did plays
by h We did a lesser known Sondheim musical. We
did plays by Ethan Cohen of the Cohen Brothers. We

(05:32):
did plays by Nora Ephron, Alan Arkin, Elaine May. A
lot of these, like Hollywood Legends, one of the first
musicals mel Brooks wrote, I think the first musical mill
Brooks were actually and and a lot of people in
Hollywood were like, yeah, this is like they're not seeing this,
you know, most people putting on shows they do kind
of do the classics like Greece and you know, Little
Shop of Horror, and there's nothing wrong with those shows.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
I love Little Shop of Horores.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
But I think it was like we found out pretty
quickly there was a whole in the industry out here
for people finding plays that were written by people that
you wouldn't expect to disappear, you know, plays that you
would think everyone would know about. You know, this is
an academy when we're winning director wrote this thing, or
Alan Arkin, fantastic actor.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Has plays most people don't know he wrote anything.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
So doing that in La, you know, we found that
that hole that we filled, and people started to come
and we started to establish ourselves as like a real
like kind of like I wouldn't say, like a punk
rock theater company, you know, because we some people described
us early on as we kind of were like a
traveling troop of actors and everything used in the stage
like looks like it came out of our like you know,
and out of our van, right, and of course we

(06:33):
didn't really have a van, but it's like we we
really had a commitment to like the minimalist of theater
and for those who aren't sold on that idea, you know,
because obviously spectacle is great, especially on a superhero podcast,
it's crazy to even say, like spectacle is specle that.
But in theater, you know, there is kind of a
big pushback against like what is the importance of spectacle
versus just telling a story? You know, something we're passionate

(06:54):
about is the you know, the root of theater is
just really people on the street putting on a show,
people passing by and stopping and watching. And it's not
about the big lavish sets and costumes. And of course
we do have a Superman costume, don't get me wrong,
But but it's like, you know, there there's proof that
like if you have a really good story and you
and you're not trying to like, you know, put on

(07:15):
your you know, you're trying to twist it in your
own way. Like if you just have a really good
story and you put it on, people will be there
and they'll love it because that's the magic of theater
and and and you know, both movies and live theater honestly.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
So that's our kind of niche.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
And the name Foster Cat Productions comes from before the
pandemic before it was kind of trendy to do.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
So we were in school, we lived together, and we
were we were.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
You know, a little bit tired of school, and we
ended up fostering cats and the first to.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Deal with our to deal with our depression.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, it was. It was a great time. We learned
a lot and uh and we the first litter we
had was like literally six kittens that were two weeks
old and their mother and it changed our lives. And
so we just named it after our love for fostering cats.
And I can let Harry talk about how we discovered
the Superman musical, but we really like to unearth kind
of these hidden gems, the things that.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Not a lot of people know.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Now.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
I know you definitely knew about this, and probably most
of the listeners know about the Superman musical.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
But for your average.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Joe a theater goer, a lot of people when you
tell them there was a Superman musical and it was
written by the guy who wrote the music for or
the music she wrote the same music for Bye by
Bertie and Annie and the writers of the movie Kramer
versus Kramer.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
You know, when you hear all that, people are like,
what that is that a real thing you're telling me?
And so you know, that's kind of like what our
theater company does.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
So we've done tons of plays by other filmmakers, you know,
like just.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
Finished a play by Orson Wells and adaptation of Mobi Dick,
the most people don't know about.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
So yeah, we just find little known pieces.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
Of theater and hopefully share them with people who can
be like, hey, I had no idea this existed.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yeah, And it's usually like we try to be like,
you know, for most people.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
We were picking shows that most people haven't seen, so
it's like the first time they've seen the show. So,
you know, one of my favorite things we've done. If
you're familiar with Shelle Silverstein, the children's book writer, Yeah,
he had a series of plays that were like very raunchy,
kind of adult themed but it's still yeah, but they
used like this, oh yeah, and in a lot of
the plays they used like the you know, he's still rhymed,

(09:10):
and use a lot of like child humor, I mean
child's storybook humor or, like wit, but there was a
more of adult themed story.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
It's the very pretty story is a very adult language.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah, stuff that no one's heard of and to tie
into the Superman of musical. We liked about the musical
so much is that it's so different from where superheroes
are like now in pop culture. Most people would not
expect couldn't even fathom the idea of you know how like,
is it so goofy is?

Speaker 6 (09:36):
You know?

Speaker 4 (09:37):
And that the musicals campy and it's so much fun
and it's it's very like, it's got a lot of
heart to it, and it's not grim, you know, And
I like a grim superhero story sometimes, but I just
think in a musical, you know.

Speaker 5 (09:48):
So how Yeah, We've always been superhero fans for our
entire lives, you know, I've been reading comics from a
young age, and we uh you know, I played Injustice
uh more than any other video game. But we're also
theater lovers, and we all obviously knew about Spider Man
Turn Off the Dark.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh yeah, did you guys ever get a chance to
see that?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Noo?

Speaker 1 (10:08):
But I didn't either.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
I didn't see it, but my cousin's babysitter was the
usher for it, so he took me into the theater
after the show ones, where all the Spider webs were
everywhere in the audience that was pretty insane. But that
that's like the superhero musical that everybody knows.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
And and an infamous disaster does.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Not have a great reputation.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Uh and there all there is a direct connection between
the spider Man musical and the Superman Musical, which I'll
get into a little bit later, because the super musical
has a crazy history.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Do you have what one? Did you know about it?
And if so, when did you figure out about it?

Speaker 1 (10:45):
The used bookstore chain here in Texas where I live, Well,
they're all around, but it's called Half Price Books. So
I talk about a lot on the podcast actually because
I find a lot of stuff there. I was there.
This is like near the early days of the podcast,
so uh, several years ago, and they had you know,
have they have records LPs?

Speaker 3 (11:01):
You know?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Now it's funny you go into like best buy and
see records. It's funny how time is a flat circle
and they're popular again. But if they had their record section,
I see this like Superman musical, it's a bird, it's
a plane at Superman. It's like obviously from like the seventies,
and like what is this? So I bought it. I
listened to it like once, I was like, oh, Okay,
this is a weird oddity I'll put in my shelf,
but didn't really think about it. Now I have had

(11:24):
had some podcasting friends that have talked about it. The
All Star Superman podcast kind of went into a really
deep dive on the history, which I learned a lot
about and kind of inspired me to maybe go re
listen to it because it actually is on Spotify. I'm like,
why did I buy this record? Now I can listen
to But no, I'm a you know, as you guys
can see behind me and the listeners game, you guys,
I like collecting things of physical media and other collectibles,

(11:47):
so now it's that record is just like a collectible
for me.

Speaker 7 (11:58):
News is made Metropolis.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Every morning, the five million readers of the Daily Planet
wake up to headlines like this, Yes, Superman has stopped
another major crime. And yet how often do we take
for granted the miracle of this one man vigil in
our midst How much do we really know about Superman?

(12:24):
In the year thirty seven hundred of the Nola Galaxy,
a tiny planet called Krypton faced imminent destruction. A series
of internal nuclear explosions threatened to destroy the planet in seconds.
Yet only minutes before the holocaust, one man, in a
desperate attempt to save his baby's life, put the infant

(12:46):
in a tiny rocket ship and launched him into space destination.
Unknown how it happened, we can never comprehend, but surely

(13:08):
it was the hand of providence that guided this frail
craft toward Metropolis.

Speaker 7 (13:15):
What sort of a being was this that.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Landed in our midst Men call him Superman, Criminals called
him Nemesis. Before his advent, respect for law was at
an all time low. Since his arrival, organized crime in

(13:42):
Metropolis has steadily decreased from year to year, and yet
Superman still finds time to offer his services to the
less fortunate among us, our senior citizens, our shuttings, and

(14:09):
our citizens of the future. Little wonder, then, that a
grateful city bestows its highest honors upon the Man of Steel.
Here is Daily Planet editor Perry White presenting Superman with

(14:30):
a Good Citizenship Award.

Speaker 8 (14:32):
And so Superman, on behalf of the three thousand employees
of the Daily Planet, I take great pride in presenting
you with this award in honor of your achievements.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
A I bear that.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
K thank you sid.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yes, prevention of crime and pride in Metropolis. This is
the credo of Superman.

Speaker 6 (15:18):
Kids.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Being Superman is a full time job.

Speaker 6 (15:23):
There's a lot you can do to help.

Speaker 7 (15:25):
First, be good and listen to your parents and teachers.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Believe me, they're on your side.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Second, be healthy in mind and body.

Speaker 7 (15:42):
You know, it's not easy combating all the criminals and
evil doers in a city this size. No matter how
hard I work, there will always be men who want
to take the easy way out. But if I know
that the youth of Metropolis is behind me one hundred percent,
and if I can feel confident but tomorrow's citizens will

(16:03):
be decent, upright men and women, my job.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Will be that much simpler.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Like having a predominantly Smallville fan audience, I am sure
a lot of them have no idea about this, what
this is, what this history is. So so why don't
you no penitend to give us a flyover of Superman

(16:31):
the musical?

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah for sure. Yeah, And before Harry does, I just
want to point on Harry. Harry's like, the is the
director of this piece. So he's he he is a
lot of the he know, he knows so much about this.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
I'm impressed I'm gonna let him take this to talk
about the process and the history a little sure.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
So, yeah, I was just reading. Uh we were in
New York. I went to a bookstore.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
I found how Prince, who's a big Broadway director and
producer director Sweeney Todd and.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Like famly opera as well.

Speaker 5 (17:00):
He was involved with Yes Phantom of the Opera, one
of the giants of theater.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
He had an autobiography.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
I thought, well, there's going to be some interesting stuff
in here, and I read it and then I got
to a chapter about it's a bird, it's a plane,
it's Superman.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
And I'd never ever ever heard of that before.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
So instantly I think the name of the chapter of Superman.
And I'm reading this on a plane, and so I've
reached for my phone so just to start googling, and
I realized I can't. I can't google anything about it
for the next like four or five hours. So I'm
just stuck with this one little chapter in this book
that doesn't go into it in great detail. Because the
Superman musical was one of the biggest financial disasters on

(17:36):
Broadway when it came out. Now, so going back to
the inception of that musical for my knowledge of the
rescarch that I've done. Robert Benton and David Newman, who
were the screenwriters on the Richard Donner Superman movie.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
That first movie came.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
Out I believe in seventy eight, right, yes, yes, this
musical I believe was sixty six sixty six, so this
was a little bit before them, but this same writing team,
and apparently what happened I forget if it was Robert
Bennan or David Newman, but one of them's I believe
son just came to them one day and said, Hey,
I like Superman. You should write a musical of Superman.

(18:12):
And they were like, huh, that's interesting. Went to Charles Strauss,
who had just had a big hit and Bye Bye Birdie,
which was the first rock and roll musical on Broadway,
and said what do you think of this idea? And
they were like, we love it, let's do it. So
it was really simple. It was just somebody's kids saying
I'd like to see this, and everyone was like, yeah, sure,
why not, let's do it. So they put the musical

(18:34):
on when they wrote it. It's a completely original story.
I don't think it takes nothing from the comics. I
believe the only characters from the comics are Superman, Lois Lane,
and Perry White. Perry White's a tiny, tiny role. Other
than that, all original characters. New story and they wrote

(18:55):
it and they put it on Broadway, and they used
flying to get the actor playing Superman up in the air,
all kinds of special effects. They put a movie in it,
like they paused the stage show to show a movie in.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
The theater for one scene like that.

Speaker 5 (19:11):
There's one scene where the bad guy's trying to figure
out who Superman is so he can, you know, figure
out his weaknesses. And so Lois Lane is like, oh,
we conveniently have this this movie on the origin of Superman.
Let me play it for you. And you can even
watch that movie that played in the Broadway show on YouTube.
It's on YouTube. It's black and white. It's it's really ridiculous.

(19:33):
So it's just so it was a very experimental and
expensive production, and it got great reviews from from what
my research, people like critics liked it. Just the audience
wasn't coming to see it, and I think they the
reasoning that was given by Charles Strauss and Harold the Prince.
It doesn't seem like anybody quite knew exactly why it

(19:54):
didn't catch on. But the main things are one that
the Batman show was on same time, and they figured
people would rather stay home and watch Batman than spend
money on a Broadway ticket to go see Superman, and
they would they were getting their superhero fill so they
didn't need.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
To getting their superhero filled with one show on one network.
What a time to be alive, I know.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Seriously, what a different time.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
And then and they had also I think they had
not quite cracked if it was for kids or for adults.
I think reading the script now, it's very clearly enjoyable
for adults. There's some very funny stuff in there and
some pretty adult character.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
It's not R rated at all, but it's you know,
it doesn't cater to it's not like written for kids clearly.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
You know, there's a lot of jokes that are pretty sophisticated,
and I mean the the entire you know, the whole
Like there's a very big climactic scene where the main
fight really happens with the villain dressing down Superman with
his words like like basically just berating.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
Him, and like, you know, that's the thing about a
superhero show on stage and Spider Man where their problems
were showing all the stunts in the action and all
that crazy stuff where people getting in there. You can't
really do an action in theater, like just so little
theater action. If you're doing a musical, it's really either
got to be like a.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
Comedy or like a drama.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
And back in the sixties the musical comedy was so popular,
so of course they really leaned into making Superman into
a musical comedy. So it's very jokey, it's very broad,
but it's very well written, like the like Elliott was saying,
the way the super villain because he's not he's not
a super villain, he's just a scientist. And his whole

(21:35):
idea on how to take down Superman is to make
Superman realize that he's not important and that he shouldn't
feel special. And so he literally just has a conversation
with him and says, why do you feel like you
need to save people? And Superman's like, I don't know,
I just think it's the right thing to do. And
the Villain's like, well, who asked you to do that?
And Superman's like, I guess nobody, and then he becomes

(21:57):
depressed and that's how he wins the fighting and Superman
the villain by making him depressed.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
And the villain's motivations are and this might be a
little simplified, but it's because he doesn't feel special himself.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
He's a scientist who's like, what does he say if
it was five times and.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
Nobel Prize loser tenva He lost the Nobel Prize ten times,
so he wants revenge on the world. It's all very
goofy and very very ridiculous. And what's even interesting is
if you if you look at the show when I
when I was first researchers researching, and I saw it
got a Tony nomination for Best Leading Actor, and I

(22:31):
and I and it also got a one for Best
Supporting Actress for the woman playing Lois Lane.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Makes sense.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
I saw the nomination for Leading Actor and I was like, oh,
this is probably the actor who played Superman. But the
guy who got the nomination for Leading Actor for the
Tony Award was not playing Superman nor the villain. There's
another character who's like kind of a villain who's well,
he's certainly, but he's not like but he's.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Not he's not like the main bad guy.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
And there's this random character they named up, Max Mank
who works at the Daily Planet with Superman, and he
probably has the most songs in the show, and that acts.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Some of the best songs too, really great songs.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
And that that's the actor who got the Tony nomination
for So it's it's a weird mixture of original stuff
and you know, the Superman mythos, it's just it's such
a unique thing.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
It's its own beast.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
I feel like it exists in its own little bubble
from the rest of the cannon.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I would say, talk about the cast. I did want
to call this out. So Jack Cassidy played Professor X,
the villain.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
You know, Jack Nancy played Max Mankin, who is not
not the main villain.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
He's more of a secondary.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
Villainy And he was a big musical theater star at
the time, so I believe they just wanted to give
him a role and and they created it based on him.
And it's it's a columnist at the Daily Planet who's
sort of he's he doesn't treat women very well and
he is only interested in fame. And so there's a
whole there's a whole subplot with him in the musical.

(24:05):
And for whatever reason, because he was the biggest star
in the show, the Tony deemed him the leading actor.
But he he didn't play either Superman or the main villain,
just a secondary villain.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
I did a little research on the family tree here,
So yeah, Jack Cassidy. His son is David Cassidy from
the Partriers family, who was the mirror Master of the
nineteen nineties Flash. His daughter, David Casside's daughter is Katie
Cassidy Black Canary in the Arrow Verse. And David Cassidy's

(24:37):
half brother is Patrick Cassidy, who not only was on
Lewis and Clarke as the son of Lex Luthor, he
was Lana Lang's biological father on Smallville in season two.
So there's your family tree.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Oh that's insane.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
And it's all connected the Superman Mafias.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
The Ancestry dot Com. He had all of the Superman.

Speaker 5 (24:59):
And I guess it's been a it's hard to talk
about this. It's now we're in the midst of rehearsal,
so it's it's hard to talk about it. Linearly and
and give a great looking at from the outside. What
exactly the musical is. So I'm gonna go back to
the basic plot of the show. So Superman is it starts,
no origin story. Really, Superman's a guy. He's he's protecting

(25:21):
the citizens of Metropolis. While at the same time, Clark
Kent works at the Daily Planet with Lois Lane, Max Mankin,
and another character named Sidney. And so there's the main
plot is Superman solving crime and then Clark Kent, Uh,
you can't really tell if he's in love with Lois
based on the script from the beginning, but Lois gives

(25:44):
shares all her anger at Superman for not she.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Basically she basically says, like, you know, look how many
times Superman has saved my life, but has he ever
told me that he loves me?

Speaker 3 (25:55):
And like it's it's so funny because she's upset.

Speaker 5 (25:59):
At Superman for never going on a date with her
and shares that grief with Clark Kent, who listens and
is the comedy is that obviously he's Superman and she
doesn't know it. And so in the Daily Planet there's
this other character, Max Mankin, who is played by Jack Cassidy,
the actor we're talking about. He just is interested in fame,
and he has a woman that works for him, Sidney,

(26:20):
who he treats pretty poorly, and he just wants to
be with Lois, so he's always stepping on Clark Kent's
toe's getting in the way trying to seduce Lois. She's
not interested in him at all because he's a bit
of a creep. And Sydney, who was Max's assistant, is

(26:40):
upset that Max is doing this to Lois, so she
tries to seduce Clark Kent.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
I known this might sound all convoluted.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
I feel like it's a lot of pieces here, but
so Sidney, it's a love square.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Sydney sings to Clark Kent.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
This is the most famous song in the show, and
it became I think it's the only song that really
became a standard after the show was released. It's called
You've Got Possibilities, and this secondary character, Sidney, goes to
Clark Kent and because she's upset that Max is giving
her the cold shoulder, she says to Clark, well, you
know what, I can go out with you instead. Even
though you seem to be a loser, I'm sure there's

(27:16):
something cool about you. And she sings this whole song
about how he's got something going on underneath that he
probably doesn't know about because he's such a nerd, and
the joke being obviously that he's Superman. She has no idea,
and so she's doing all these things. There's a lot
of there's a joke in the in the in the
in the number where she rips open his shirt trying

(27:37):
to seduce him, and it just doesn't see that he's
got a Superman costume underneath. Yeah, he's got to button
it up before she notices it.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
It's all really ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (27:49):
And then while that's going on, this professor Abner Sedgwick,
who's lost the Nobel Prize ten times, is working on
some big science experiment with his sidekick Jim, who is
it's a professor that works underneath him. Not Jimmy Olsen, No,
not a character from Superman, just this dude named Jim,

(28:09):
and Lois goes to report on this. It sounds so crazy.
Lois goes to report on this big science project where
she meets Jim and then falls in love with Jim,
and so Jim and Lois become an item an item,
and Superman and this other girl, Sydney become an item,
and then and then the whole thing is Lois is

(28:31):
trying to figure out if she loves Superman or Jim.
Her main struggle is it is it Superman or this.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Other dude named Jim. You know, we don't really know
about it.

Speaker 5 (28:40):
And then Clark's you know, through line is like I
got to defeat Sedgwick because he's clearly an evil scientist,
but also I want to be with Lois, but I'm
too scared to tell her. A lot of high jinks,
a lot of a lot of just ridiculousness throughout the
whole show.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
There is an intermission at some point. Yes, yes, so's
because that sounds like a lot of story. So yeah,
probably two and a half hours or something to play.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
The h the actual show is we were we have
it less than two hours, and uh and if if
we find we need to, we'll put a little sign
outside with the character tree so.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Everyone can mix it up.

Speaker 5 (29:20):
But uh, yeah, it's such a it's such a hard
shitter describe. It's the script is so well written and
they did such a good job making it that you
read the script and you're like, oh, this makes sense.
I'm following everything. I know, what's going on.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, and it really is.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
It's really like it's such an easy buy in because
it's like, you know, describing the whole plot, Yeah, like
it sounds convoluted and messy, but everyone going in and
it's like, you know, you know Superman, you know, the
whole gimmick with like the Clark Kent and it's like
he's a little bit more nervous and he's more confident
a Superman.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
He's balancing the two lives.

Speaker 9 (29:51):
You know.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Everyone gets that. So it's so it's a lot easier
to buy into the show.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
And and honestly, if anyone, whether whether they're like you know,
in La to see the show or whether they have
no chance of ever seeing the show, I still recommend
listening to the music because you can fall in love
with the soundtrack.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
The songs are really good.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
That You've Got Possibility song, like Harry said, it's kind
of been like the most mainstream song or the one
that like kind of broke into the zeitgeist a bit.

Speaker 6 (30:17):
You know.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Peggy Lee recorded that on her own and for anyone
out there who is a fan of musical theater, they
you know, Stephen Sondheim included that in a list of
songs that he wished that he wrote himself, which is
it is just so fascinating that it's you know, a
lot of people like the song is kind of everywhere
and no one really knows about the music.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
It's from that.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
That's the one that took out to me. I remember
when I heard it, I'm like, oh, that's a good one.
And then whenever you visited, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's
I'll listen to that one again. You know, not to
say it, you know it's like the only good song
or anything, but that one sticks out.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
It does. It's really well.

Speaker 5 (30:50):
Speaking of the score, I mean the music is also
just going along with how strange the pot sounds. The music,
the idea of the music is strange too, because Superman
doesn't really sing that much, and he does have a
duet with Lois Lane.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
You'd think, really, you think it's the yeah.

Speaker 5 (31:05):
Yeah, you'd think it's the most obvious thing. Lois does
not have a duet with Superman. Instead, she has a
love song with Jim, who's this other made up character.
So if you try to explain the score to someone,
they're like, well, how could that possibly be good? You
try to explain the script to someone, how could that
possibly be good? Yeah, But for some reason, the show
is a critical success. They did it in New York
about I think fifteen years ago for a like a

(31:29):
revival concert kind of thing, and again it got incredible reviews.
Everyone's like, it's a really well written show, it's really funny.
There's a lot of great opportunities for directors to do
stuff with it because it's so stylized, but for some reason,
nobody really does it. And it's I think the reason,
if I had to guess, it's probably because the show

(31:49):
was made with flying in mind. You know, Superman being
attached to a cable and being able to fly all
over the stage, which is obviously something very very difficult
to do in live theater, and so of people are
probably put off by the idea.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Of producing it.

Speaker 5 (32:02):
However, the very first page of the script, the original
director and writers say, do not be put off by
the flying. You can easily do the show without flying.
Here are like three or four ideas if you'd like
to do the show but don't have the capabilities of flying.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
One of them is so funny.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
One of them is like, you know, and this is
like pure proof of how they have the idea of
camp in mind with the musical. It's like they wrote
down specifically have the one great idea is have the
Superman actor just run off stage really fast with the hands,
and all of the other characters do this exaggerated head
movement that's like whoo, like you know, circling around and
it's just and it's like, yeah, they they knew when

(32:38):
they wrote this thing that it wasn't trying to, you know,
make this grim really serious story.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
They knew it was going to be campy.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
And I want to before we jump off the topic
of the songs and the and the duets. There might
not be a love song to do it between the
Superman and Lois, but they make up for it because
they have a love song duet between the two villains,
basically Cedrick and Max.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
When they link up together. They this great song. It's
probably my second.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Favorite song on the show, behind You've Got Possibilities. It's
called You've Got what I Need?

Speaker 1 (33:06):
And yes, I remember that one as well.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Yes, Yes, that is the great song, and it's just
them singing about how it's like this whole time I've
been looking for you, I'm trying to get Superman, but
I can't do it alone.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
I need you, baby, and it's it's so good. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (33:18):
And another example from the score of how the show
is ridiculous is one of the opening numbers, tacked two
is called the Strongest Man in the World and Superman
singing a song about why does the strongest man in
the world have to be the saddest man in the
world and just this just big ballad about how he's
so depressed and that that's just the so goofy.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
I mean, Superman.

Speaker 5 (33:43):
You think of Superman as sad and the pressed. That's
something you hardly ever really see. Well, I mean, I
guess it's kind of there's a more moody Superman that's popular.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
There's the post millennial Superman.

Speaker 8 (33:54):
There's a lot.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, but I mean, if you yeah, going back in
that time period, very rare to see that sort of thing.

Speaker 6 (33:59):
Yeah, get your hands like this, put a hand like that,
want a hand like this, and say the three words
let me stop up. And as far as you gotta
make sure your boot doesn't pull down, that's okay, that's fine.

Speaker 9 (34:21):
That concludes our program.

Speaker 8 (34:25):
Full.

Speaker 9 (34:27):
But the main idea is faith, huh. Faith and belief,
belief that you can do it. Okay, right here we
go one, two, three?

Speaker 8 (34:34):
Good?

Speaker 9 (34:35):
A little more belief.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
I guess I will.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
I'm a daughter, all right.

Speaker 9 (34:38):
Once in a while, Tinkerbell lives. I really got to
do it your way. Huh, I'll tell a hand hand
I'm away. I felt like a probloony had it.

Speaker 6 (35:09):
I was like, can you.

Speaker 10 (35:12):
Thank you?

Speaker 9 (35:13):
Can I try that again?

Speaker 6 (35:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (35:16):
This is the type song hang on, show me, hang on.

Speaker 6 (35:21):
All right and away.

Speaker 9 (35:29):
He's a happy let me get one. I want to
say up and works about my underwear, Pope, I'd like
to talk to my tylor.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
About my ende.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
You mentioned the flying Let me ask you, like, do
you guys gonna have flying or did you use one
of those three or four other suggestions we have.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
We have some technical home of our own that we're
pulling out to do some unique things.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I don't want to.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Necessarily spoil it, sure, but we sometimes lean towards the
campy side, and then sometimes we do.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Some other things as well. Fair enough, Yeah, I think
we have a few different technical.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Tricks our theater company that we do a lot of,
Like we're really dedicated to black box like intimate theaters,
and so there's not going to be like a flying
one hundred feet in the sky.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Or like, you know, tony feet above a big stage
with it, because we're not We're not a six.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Hundred you know seat theater where our theater is one
hundred seats, so it's a little bit more of a
intimate space.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
Yeah, the musical hardly ever done. Back in I think
it was around twenty ten, they had an idea because
superheroes were now very popular, post iron Man, post Dark Knight,
they thought people would come to see Superman on the stage,
so they were.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Going to bring Superman back.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
But obviously the idea of trying to introduce to an
audience that knows Superman at this point these characters of
Max Mankin and Sydney and Jim and Sedgwick wouldn't go
over well with the fan base, so they decided that
they were going to rewrite the thing. The original composers
came back and decided to write some more music, and
they got a new scriptwriter, a book writer. I forget

(37:19):
his name exactly, but he is the guy who I
believe created Riverdale on the CWO and wrote the script
to Spider Man Turn Off the Dark. So they got
him to write the Superman script, and they updated the show.
They made it way less campy. I believe their focus
was to make it less of a comedy and more serious.

(37:41):
They got rid of both bad guys. They brought Lex
Luthor into the show and a bunch of other Superman
bad guys, and it got really great reviews. It was
at this production in Texas.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I remember seeing that this happened like years later. I'm like,
I wish I kN know about this. Someone was driven
there see this, but it was it was already like
it was like five or six years past. It was
way way pass. So I was like, oh, what is
it going to come back? And it's as I'm sure
you're about to tell us it's not going to come back.

Speaker 5 (38:05):
So it's and I believe it was the production with
Jack Cassidy Sun either Have Superman or I think that
was maybe it. But yeah, so this production in Texas
got great reviews. Everybody really liked it. I believe they
were planning to move it to Broadway, but DC, the
Film Branch, I believe, didn't want to happen. They said,

(38:27):
you can't do this because I believe Man of Steel
was coming out around that time.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
They didn't win any sort of conflict of interest.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
And also because this Superman was very different than the
Henry Cavill's Man of Steel, Man of Steel obviously being darker.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
This Superman well musical, well.

Speaker 5 (38:40):
Not a straight up comedy anymore, still on the lighthearted,
goofy side of Superman. And you can even watch a
lot of clips of it on YouTube, of this Texas production,
but they shut it down. DC shut it down, and
they said the Texas production was allowed to finish its run,
but this new script that they had written could never
be seen again. They had to lock it away, could
never be reproduced. They they didn't want anybody seeing it.

(39:04):
So that script sort of died with that production. And
now I don't know if DC's embarrassed at the Superman
musicals that out there. You know, it's out there and
it's available for licensing, which means, you know, they let
people do it like they're letting us do it. But
I don't think they like the idea of anybody changing
it to add like lex Luthor or anything like that.

(39:25):
They want it to be its own separate thing. The
original production, the way it was is the way that
they allowed it to be, and any further changes they
won't allow.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well, that's unfortunate because that sounds like a fun revival
they did it for years ago. But hey, props to
them for just allowing this to continue on the way
it was, because they could have said, you know, put
the stop on all of it across the board. So
well they at least allowing that.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
Yeah, And I wonder I wonder if it's because DC
signed a contract, you know, to allow this show to
be licensed back in the seventies, before they quite knew
what it would become. And I wonder if they had
the ability to, uh, to change that, if they would,
they might know it'd be.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Trigger you know, because I mean the people, the guys
who wrote it, you know, Bob Benton, Charles Tross, Lee Adams,
and David Newman. I mean, they're they're incredible, and they
are legends in the industry of their own rights.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
So I think it's I think something that we're not.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
We weren't even too eager to be like, ooh, can
we manipulate things, or like we were just excited to
do that their work because it's a piece of the
Superman history. That's I mean that you can't help but
fall in love with those like artifacts that like created
who we you know, know and love today as or
like you know this legacy of Superman integral part you know,

(40:40):
over ten years before the Christopher Reees movie came out.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, I mean that's that's something thing about it. And
then again, you know the as you mentioned the Dubans, Yeah,
David Newman, Leson Mouveman. They go on to you know,
write a lot of the Superman one, two three, so
you can actually there's a lot of connective tissue because
I mean even Leslie and Warren who played Lois Lane
and one of the I think the team version of this,
she she auditioned for Lois Lane and ran the movie.

(41:04):
You can see her audition on like the special features
of the DVDs and stuff. So it's funny.

Speaker 5 (41:10):
Yeah, now you brought up this made for TV version
of the musical, which is fully on.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
YouTube, and it is it is another.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Weird part of I haven't I haven't brought myself to
what I've seen clips. I haven't brought myself to sit
down and watch it because it has you know, it
has a reputation as a reputation, Yes.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
It's got a reputation on exactly a good one. And
it's very different than the stage musical because we watched
it to see, you know, to get ideas and to
see what they were doing. The music is different, while
the songs are this somewhat the same songs they've been
sort of I feel like.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Because I think the TV came.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
Out after Greece, so they changed a lot of the
sound of the songs to sound where doo woppy, which
it was not what the actual score sounds like from
the musical, and they changed a lot of the dialogue.
It changed some character. Yeah, so it's really not the same.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
While it's the.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
Same blue story and the songs have the same core,
the TV version of the musical is really not the
same as the stage.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
But also there's something to be said about like doing
a campy musical on stage, it's a lot easier to
enjoy the camp as opposed to feel like, I don't
know something about having it on the screen. And I
love musicals on the screen and I love camp on
the screen, But just something about the musical I don't
think translated as well to when they were trying to
film it in the first place, Like all the fun
little campy stage elements.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
They're just funnier I think in the live theater group environment.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, in the audience now your feet kind of feeding
off each other and that whole thing. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Yeah, And it's something that I think is interesting about
the super Verse.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
And this is something that you're gonna You're gonna definitely.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Be way more knowledgeable than I in this because I,
I honestly have not read too many of the comics,
Like I don't I don't know the grand the grand
Like I wouldn't be able to tell you too much
about the comics other than I know that they I
had just recently read the Alan Moore uh, the closing
of that original arc.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Well whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

Speaker 3 (43:09):
Whatever that Man of Tomorrow? And and god, I love
Alan Moore.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
But something that has always interested me is the whole
idea of that Cannon in these comics. Like you know,
super fans will always know that like Cannon is such
a like tricky mess and like you know, sometimes you
have like five different of the same heroes you know,
at the same time, And I think it's I think
what the what's interesting is the musical, Like again, I
think it's just it's like proof that the.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Musical deserves to see the light of day and shouldn't
be buried.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Is because we're as fans of these of these characters,
you know, we're open to different styles.

Speaker 9 (43:40):
You know.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
I love you know, I love how they're like.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Henry Cavill Superman can exist and you know, the New
super Da you know, James Gunn Superman can exist as well,
you know, and at risk of not getting any pitchforks
and torches, I'm not going to say which is my my.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Favorites here, and that wise choice, but I.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
Do have to say I I think I think as
a as a fandom, I think it's awesome that there
can be so many different variations of this character, because
it would be boring if there was just one Superman
that was just like, oh, that's the only way people
should do it. I think I think it's cool and
I think that's what that's what made me fall in
love with the musical before I even read it, Like
I knew when I saw it, I was like, wow,

(44:19):
this is like like people don't know about this, and
you know, I don't know. That's a little bit of
a tangent but I just think it's a really cool
thing that this this character has really been in every
single medium, every single format that he possibly can be in.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Absolutely, there's something about how this is truly, as you said,
it's an artifact of the sixties, you know, you know,
bringing bringing this back out into the light to the
public consciousness, right, because it would be something, don't it
would just be different for like, oh, yeah, they made
a Superman musical this year, and of course I'd be
excited about it and I go see it, right, whether
it's just historical curiosity to like what this is truly

(44:54):
from a totally different error, it's like a like a
time capsule of the.

Speaker 5 (44:58):
Yeah, yeah, seriously, And with the artists who worked on it,
I mean that was al the Prince before he became
the superstar that he was. And I think Eliot mentioned
Robert Benton, one of the writers worked on camer versus Kramer.
But David Newman and Robert Betton together did Bonnie and Clyde,
which I think is one of the best movies ever made.
So they clearly know how to write. And again, if

(45:18):
we're explaining the script horribly, which you know, it sounds
like a mass but if you read the script, it
is one of the best musical theater scripts I've ever read,
just in terms of comedy and intelligence.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Put that on the poster right there.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, what are you working on?

Speaker 8 (45:41):
Laws?

Speaker 3 (45:41):
When do I ever work on another Superman story? Well,
that's a funny attitude to have. Look how many times
he saved your life?

Speaker 11 (45:49):
Right, And that's their entire relationship.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
I get into danger and he saves my life because he.

Speaker 10 (45:55):
Ever sort of attracted.

Speaker 12 (45:57):
We are at the rehearsals for the New York City
Center anchor's presentation of It's a Bird, It's a plane,
It's Superman.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
He applies you anywhere you want to go?

Speaker 10 (46:06):
Free me please with Silly my night of fair.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I know that I should find myself another man.

Speaker 12 (46:32):
And those people who know sort of the modern idea
of a superhero, which is very dark, are going to
get a very different taste because this is now much
more campy.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
It's much more of a satire, A holy time for.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
The stand round a guy, fa round, he comes. My
heart is found.

Speaker 11 (47:05):
Well, there's unrequited love all over the place because she's
pining after the unattainable man. But she also has a
little detour and explores what that might be like, you know,
having a much more practical real man with her, with
his feet on the ground.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Hair cut, simply terrible, nectar, the worst, very just a horrible.

Speaker 10 (47:28):
Want to help first, steal yousities.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
You're probably square.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
I see po.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Sum.

Speaker 13 (47:44):
I feel like City in some way is comic relief.
And she's got a lot of fun music. It'll be
really really fun to finally do her first rehearsal with
the orchestra so we can actually hear a lot of those.
That's that late sixty sound gives.

Speaker 6 (48:00):
Me.

Speaker 13 (48:17):
You've got some sixties like dance moves in it, just
because you can't not help but like dance a little
when you hear that music, you know, in that in
that style. So yeah, it really is a piece of
that era, which I think is so fun.

Speaker 5 (48:29):
The tone, the kind of joyous comic tone that the
comic books originally had is captured.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
And it's a bird, it's a plane at Superman.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
For me, it's just a great fun to work on
because of its humor and its style.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
Years ago, I fell in love with the TV series
All of Blue, and I bought all the DVDs and
I watched them over and over.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
I was just mad about it.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
I've been dying for the opportunity to recreate these dances
in that style, and I feel like this is practically.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
A dream come true to be able to choreograph this show.

Speaker 6 (49:43):
You that.

Speaker 7 (49:45):
Scray you can't is that.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Nothing we can't handle? Luckily, especially under the total age
of our mass.

Speaker 12 (50:00):
John Rando over there, director, so he's he's got us
all going, We're gonna be in good check.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
For what is kind of you know, anything that you
really grew up loving with Superman or anything that might
have influenced you as you're as you're making this work.

Speaker 5 (50:18):
Yeah, well, I will say I definitely and I think
this might be true that there's some sort of Batman
Superman rivalry. And I definitely grew up on the side
of you know, Batman was more my guy yea, And
it took me a while to really engage with Superman.
I I grew up with that Justice League show on
Cartoon Network.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Which I really liked. I don't think it was until.

Speaker 5 (50:39):
Injustice where I really started becoming interested in Superman. And
I think also the character of Bizarro really helped me
get into Superman because Bizarro is one of my favorite
characters loves Bizarre. I just think that is such a
funny character. Every everything I've rand of Bizarro is awesome.
So that helped me get more into Superman. I think

(50:59):
my first introduction to the actual comics was the Alan
Moore one, which probably heavy.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
It's heavy for introduction, right there, yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:10):
And then uh, and then I read Kingdom Come, and
then I started getting a little bit more into it,
and then I think, I just I don't know, I
don't know. I was afraid it would be boring or something.
How the well, the strongest, you know, someone who's unbeatable.
How could there be so many stories about it? And
then once you realize that, well, that's the fun challenge.
The creativity that the writers have to have to come

(51:30):
up with a story like that means that these stories
are going to be really well thought out and really
smart and really enjoyable. So so I fell I fell
in love with it a little later in my life,
but I'm a big fan now.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Yeah for me as like as similarly, so, Harry read so.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Many of the comics growing up, like you know, he
he he.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
Harry introduced me to like I knew about spider Man,
but Harry introduced me to like Carnage and and like,
you know, before Carnage, Venom and and I grew up,
I did love I loved I a lot of like,
you know, the side guys that weren't like I didn't
really read so much of the main superheroes in Marvel
or DC at first, like because I liked Venom and
I liked Ghostwriter and and I do think there's a

(52:13):
misnomer that Superman is boring, you know, And I guess
when you're a kid, it's like maybe maybe it is
easy to fall into that trap. But like Harry was saying,
I think it it. I think the challenge of writing
such a character actually leads to some really fantastic stories.
But that being said, because of that kind of misnomer,
I feel like I was a little bit robbed of

(52:34):
getting Superman as a kid because because I was I definitely,
I have to admit sacrilegious. I was more of a
Batman kid, for sure, so much so that I remember
we went to the was It Orlando Comic Con when
we were kids, and we went to go meet Stanley
and get an autograph, and my stupid, stupid self went

(52:55):
dressed as Batman to go meet Stanley. So I was
a kid.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
I'm not a very smart kid. And then and Harry
went dressed as Spider Mann with a he got one
of those.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
Like it was a costume for some other country where
they wasn't made well. And I couldn't see out of it,
and Stanley thought I was blind.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Yeah, when we all we all got this autograph and
was told to move along, but Harry's mask was still on.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
He couldn't see where to go. And Stanley was like,
you forgot your blind friend.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Created a moment for you guys. So Stanley is fantastic man. No,
I I too. I was a Batman kid, you know,
growing up in the I mean I was born in
the eighties, but really growing up in the nineties, Batman
the NMD series, and that's when the Batman movies were, right,
I mean every every two or three years there was
a new Batman movie. So Batman, you know, on the
on the streets as far as the superhero genre went.
And then Small Villa's really would maybe pushed Superman over

(53:45):
the edge.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
For me.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah, I was the same age as Clark on Smallville.
So like when Smallville started he's a freshman high school.
I was a freshman high school. Oh so like paralleled
my life, the life imitates art if it tastes life
kind of things. I grew up with this show year
by year, and so that's when like that submitted Superman
for me. But I'd always been a fan of you
know that the christ to Reeve movies and I watched
them with my parents on on VHS when I was
a kid, and that sort of thing. And you know,

(54:06):
there's plenty of room for both, right, it's the way
you always have to pit everything against each other. But also,
like you guys were saying, I too, am very happy.
There's so many versions and iterations and ways to approach
this character. Because I mean, you have your smallvil over here,
and you have Zack Snyder movies over here, and you
have Christophve movies over here, the animated shows over here.
You got your video games, you know, like like Injustice.
You know that that's that's a fun game. My favorite

(54:27):
Superman video game is probably the Superman Returns video game.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Of all games, I think I played played that long.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
It's yeah, and here's when you probably never played Superman
sixty four. Oh no, no, infamously one of the worst
video games of all time. I heard, I've heard Superman
the animated series for the N sixty four. It is awful.
It is terrible, So but played to get a chance.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Yeah, now I kind of want to get it. Yeah,
and I loved, I loved.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
I guess probably the Whatever Happened to the Man of
Tomorrow is is an easy gateway for people who aren't
as familiar with Superman, but like his Watchman is so like,
you know, a lot of people know Watchman, and that
was probably one of the earliest comics I read, so,
you know, it was kind of like Alan Moore's name.
This is gonna sound so naive because I am a
naive comic reader, but like Alan Moore's name on a
Superman comic really just like got me, like, oh, I

(55:17):
now I really want to, you know, read this when I.

Speaker 5 (55:19):
Discovered that, well, talking about musicals based on comics, I
mean Annie was based on the comic Annie, and I
think in Charles Stress his book, he said he almost
did not want to make Annie because Superman had been
such a failure, and he thought, who wants to see
comic book musicals? So that almost prevented him from writing
Annie So.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
So so critically it was a success, but financially, ultimately
it was a failure, which is why it stopped me.
I don't know how maybe brand like a year.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
That way less than a year way less and I
think only like I call like a even maybe less.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Than I don't know the exactly my goodness. So okay,
so we're really talking like spider Man turned off the Dark.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
Yeah, I think it was the biggest financial disaster in
Broadway history.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
When it closed.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Wow, historic everybody, so uh but yeah, I mean that's interesting.
You take a character like Superman, you put him on
the stage, even a musical, which you know plays or
plays and musicals and musicals and you know there's a
lot of crossover there, but musicals traditionally have a lot
more production value. So it's just it's it's a hard
enough to crack with Superman. But it sounds like they

(56:19):
took the right approach, because like, if you cannot if
you can't do a planet blowing up and a guy
landing finding a giant robot and all that stuff, like
go to the romantic comedy stuff, and that seems to
be what they leaned into.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Yeah, and I believe kids really liked it.

Speaker 5 (56:32):
I also read that the actor who played Superman in
the musical he would he would after the show go
to the stage door, still dressed as Superman, still pretending
to be Superman.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
I have seen Bob Holliday, I've seen pictures. I'm like,
I look like I like Superman. Like I get here, dude.
I mean, if I was five years old, I would
have believed he really was Superman talking to me and
his cost Yeah that's great, But so did did did
you guys watch small Villain Smallville?

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Okay, so I was excited. I was excited to talk
about this.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
So I I had never actually interacted with the show,
but I had just watched the first episode once we
you know, got in touch, and I'm eager to continue it.
All right, So you know, I'm I have to say
the you know, I guess similar to Superman. The idea
of that show has was kind of like something I
never I never gotten into, Like I never, I guess.

Speaker 5 (57:25):
Had a friend who like in Pasi, I think it
was running around. We were too young, yeah, I mean
I think I was maybe one when it came out,
and and I just by the time I had reached
the age where I was interested in those teen shows.
I think that there was just other things that were
on that took our attention. But yeah, we did watch
the first episode recently and it is really good.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Really enjoyed it.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
That main actor, I think it's crazy how much he
looks like Clark Kenton, the major.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Like absolutely, Tom Mollagu's fantastic. It's it's obviously like the show.

Speaker 6 (57:54):
So you.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Two hundred and seventeen more episodes ago. If you guys
want enjoy you got a podcast to listen along to too.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
If you want what's your favorite season?

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Oh that you know, that's tough? Season three, Season three maybe,
and then and then you know what, dark Horse Season
nine is really good and I like it a lot.
It's a whole different show by then. It's so different
it's hard to compare. There's like eras of the show,
like the first uh, the first four years, or like
the high school years obviously, then what I call the
I affectionately call the college dropout years or seasons five

(58:27):
to seven, Like he's just he's just hanging out on
the farm. Is that Like the show itself was kind
of spinning its wheels, uh, and Silver was Clark as
the character. And then my season's eight, nine and ten,
he's a working in the Daily Planet. He's in Metropolis.
Lois Lane is there in full effect, and it's basically
like a proto Superman show. And of those, I like
season nine, so so I those are my goods. When
people ask you what my favorite one is, I say

(58:48):
season three or season nine.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited to watch it as well because
because kind of like why I was interested in in
in the musical, it is kind of like an aspect
of Superman that isn't talked about as much.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Is like that time in Smallville, right, I mean like
like I was shocked.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
I was shocked as someone who is not as familiar
with it that you know, obviously there's no Lois Lane because.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
You know, or at least at first in the first
not at first, Yeah, not at first.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
And to me, that's like that's I think that's awesome.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
You know, it's just a new, new, you know, a
way of telling the story that's different than how everyone
expects the story.

Speaker 6 (59:24):
To be told.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Well, you see so many of the movies and that's
when you cut to the future, right exactly, it's a
baby in a space shift. Oh, let's name them Clark
cut to he's thirty years old. So this is those
you know, those in between years, and they they got there,
they got the most out of it. I mean ten seasons, y'all.
I mean, yeah, I believe it's tied with The Stargate
is the longest running science fiction show in North America.

(59:48):
You know, because I know this doctor who's over there
on its own, on its own over there, and.

Speaker 5 (59:52):
They bring in a lot of DC other superheroes in
it as is run.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Right, absolutely, yeah, especially being in those later years, like
seasons five where they're bringing on the Flash Green Arrow.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Green Arrow fan.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
When we were watched the Green Arrow Show, I also
watched the original Flash show we have that we have
the box collection of Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
I love that. I love that show. I mean I
love the nineteen ninety Flasher David Cassidy their master episode.
But no, a Smallville really. I don't just say this
because I'm like the small Oville guy, but it it
is why we have the Arrow Verse. I mean literally
all those shows, those characters proof of concept were tested
on television on Small like Green Arrow is a main
character on Small over the last three years. He shows

(01:00:33):
up in season six. He's a recurring guest star, and
then he's a main character, and he was so popular
they said, what do we do for Smallville? I know,
great Arrow, I guess, And then the Flash, Supergirl, et cetera,
and they all had They all were long running, very
popular recurring characters on the show.

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
So going back to like what you said about the
spectacle versus you know, more minimalistic theater, Like we got
the SpongeBob musical, which I just watched the recording of.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
He's not even a superhero, and the.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
Climax of that musical is he's climbing all kinds of
all kinds of stuff, He's doing all kinds of action sequences.
And so you can imagine there's a Superman musical today
that probably would be in it. But this Superman musical,
the climax, it's not. It's just a battle of wits
between Superman and the villain. No action, just them having
a serious conversation. And that, to me is just so interesting.

(01:01:19):
How can you make a conversation thrilling by just by
what these this iconic character is saying to this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Yeah, I think you gotta know your limitations, right, I mean,
if you're in theory, I mean, you know, you get
your budget, you're what you can't achieve, what you can
pull off, like and if you know, sometimes people reach
exceed their grasp and they kind of fall in their face.
But just kind of that that's smart for you guys
to produce a certain way from it, to be written
a certain way, all all those years ago of like yeah,
we we're not gonna have them, you know, fight a

(01:01:46):
an earthquake or something. We haven't fight a guy in
a battle of wits. That's smart.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
But yeah, I mean, like you know, I'm very excited
about the new Superman movie. James Gunn. I love James Gunn.
I'm very excited for that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
But it's like we know that, like you know, audiences,
they're gonna get the visual effects, the million dollar really
cool visual effects from that. So there's not like I
don't think that when you're doing it on stage, you
kind of have to release yourself with the pressure of
trying to show the live audience that you can do
that too, because it's a different it's a different format.
I think that's actually freeing because it's like you know,

(01:02:18):
this this is again it's on stage, we have a
great script written by these incredible legends, and the script
is you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Know, tried and true.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
We don't need to try to put something on top
of it to prove that it's worthy of being performed.
And I yeah, that just brings me back to why
I love theater in the first place. Is that, you know,
if you get people in the room all together and
just a good story like that's magic can happen.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Absolutely, everything does not need to be everything else. You know,
there's a certain name for certain story. I mean, there's
a reason books or books, and there's a reason movies movies,
and there's a reason plays or plays, and so yeah,
there's plenty of space of this stuff. And no, no,
I love going to the theater, going to musicals. My
mom was in theater when she was in high school
and so but we instilled the arts and me we
we always we still go to like plays and things,

(01:03:03):
and I do enjoy that. It's it's a different experience,
you know. It's just something like like you can see
a movie in the theater and then you can go
watch a movie to get at home. And I mean,
obviously it's not exactly the same, but there's something about
like you go into a live performance. Going to live performance,
it's like going to a theme park, right, It's like
you're there experiencing it and you cannot You'll never recapture
that exact thing, you know. So there's a certain intangent

(01:03:24):
like just there's an intangibility to it that that that
it's fun seeing seeing just live entertainment.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
That's a great. Thank you so much, Zach. I appreciate
you having us on and you're a great guy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Oh, absolutely, no, it was great to meet you guys.
So so before we sign off here, tell people where
they can find you guys online, when and where they
can go see it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Superman,
all right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
Yeah, So we're on we're Foster Cat Productions. You can
find our websites just Fostercatproductions dot com. Uh they we're
on Instagram at Foster Cat Productions. We're on Facebook.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Two.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
We're we're in Hollywood at the Broadwater main Stage Eater
in Hollywood. First two Beegins of August. That's August first tenth,
Fridays and Saturdays, eight pm. Sundays at three pm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Excellent. So if you're in the LA area. Go see
it's the Birds and playing in Superman. If you're not
travel out there and go see it. Support these guys
by the show fly and uh yeah, no, it's been
a lot of fun until next time. Everybody, Always hold
on to Smallville and all this other stuff. Always hold

(01:04:58):
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To network of podcasts and brought to you by listeners
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Smallville Torch Exclusive #5 - Elliot & Harry White

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Smallville Torch Exclusive #5 - Elliot & Harry White