Top 10 Episodes: #3 Rosetta

Our countdown of the top 10 episodes of Smallville continues! Zach, Lance Laster from Always Hold On To Arrow, Victoria Male and Matt Truex from Lois & Clark'd: The New Podcasts of Superman discuss the #3 episode as voted by you the listeners..."Rosetta"!

Check out Lance on Always Hold On To Arrow!

Check out Victoria's work on her website!

Check out Matt's work including Lois & Clark'd: The New Podcasts of Superman at The Daily Knockoff!

Always Hold On To Smallville is brought you to by listeners like you. Special thanks to these Meteor Freaks on Patreon who's generous contributions help produce the podcast!

Chris Fuchs / @crfuchs7
Kevonte Chilous / @chill_us
Joey Dienberg / @JoeyD94_13
Insaiyan
Cory Moore
Nathan Rothacher
Isaiah Goodridge
Atif Sheikh
John Curcio
Marc-ids Foppen
Patricia Carrillo / @MsCarrillo92
Rhythm Chameleon
Jim Crawford
Kasey Vach / @ThePandaSupreme
Rouie Humphrey
Alex Hamilton  / @Quiet_Storm_23
Matt Douglas
Daniel Curiel
Meryl Smith / @MelXtreme84
Trevis Hull
Matt B.
Amy J.
Mike Franz
Martin Ryan
Nathan MacKenzie / @maccamackenzie
Steve Rogers / @SteveJRogersJr
Mollie Ficarella
James Lee / @Jae_El_52
Jason Davis / @superjay_92
Patrick Bravo
Alex Ramsey / @aramsey1992
Tae Tae / @doomsday994.
Rob O'Connor / @TheGothamite
Tina B
Jake
Jacob
Daryn Kirscht / @darynkirscht16
Dylan DiAntonio
Nick Ryan Magdoza / @nickryan
Eddie Bissell / @Kal_Ed11
Nicholas Fansler
John Long
Ruth Anne Hamon
Travis Kill / @tjkill81
Mike Thomas
Neena J / @Sofiamom1
Gordon Bombay
Michael H.
Laura Dos Reis
Cherryl
DJ Doena / @DjDoena
Nicholas Coso
Jarrett Gibbs
Anthony Anderson / @NigandNog
Keith Fauls
James Hart / @jaoharts
Anthony Desiato /@DesiWestside
Crystal Cross
Kirin Kumar
Lorenzo Valdes / @ClarksCreek

PATREON: patreon.com/alwaysmallville
TWITTER: twitter.com/alwaysmallville
FACEBOOK: facebook.com/alwaysmallville
EMAIL: [e-mail]

Updated Artwork by Eric Folk from Smallville Papers.

Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's your boy, Sam Jones, the third.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I played Pete Ross on the show small Villa, and
you're listening to Always hold on to Smallville.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Welcome to Always hold on to Smallville. In this podcast,
we've talked about each and every episode of the Young
Superman show that ran from two thousand one to twenty
eleven on the WB and the c W. I'm your host,
Zach Moore, and we're back with our top ten episodes.
That's right, we're determining the top ten episodes of Smallville
as voted by you, the listeners. And this time the

(01:15):
number three entry roe Zetta. I think it comes as
no surprise that Rosetta is on the top ten list,
in the top five of the top ten list, in
the top three of the top ten list. It is
the Christopher Reeve episode, his first of two appearances on
the show. Just a similar moment in the series and

(01:36):
in the pop culture and the legacy of Superman, and
we have one generations Superman passing the torch to the next.
There was just something so special about seeing Tom Welling
and Christopher Reeve to think that the iconic, the once
in future Superman. Christopher Reeve himself appeared on this show

(01:59):
gave it such a stamp of legitimacy that not that
Smuvel needed, but it was a proclamation to the world that, hey,
this show is doing something special. Now. My favorite two
iterations of Superman and live action are Smallville and the
Christopher Reeve films, So you can imagine having these two

(02:23):
guys meet is just incredibly special to me. Superman in
the movie is almost fifty years old, which is crazy
to think, but it left a mark on pop culture.
It left a mark on the character, and for good reason, right,
and so much of that is his performance, what he
brought to it. Anyone who puts on the cape or

(02:44):
doesn't in the case of Tom Willing, will be compared
to Christopher Reeve forever and could someday another actor overtake him. Possibly,
but I wouldn't bet on it. So last thing I'll
say before we get into it is Smallville very hit
or miss with legacy casting. Christpher Reeve hit, Terry Hatcher,

(03:06):
hit Helenslater, Dean Kaine miss, Mark McClure hit soft hit,
turn Stamp hit right. So you can't take these things
for granted just because they got christ Pharieve didn't mean,
it was gonna be an A plus all the way around,

(03:28):
but he brought it. The scriptwriters brought it, the episode
brought it. They understood the importance of this and they
stuck the landing in. It's fantastic and there's a reason
why it is universally praised as one of the greatest
smavel episodes of all time. But let's take a look
back and see what we gave Rosetta on the letter
grade scale on the podcast Proper Rosetta had. Myself and

(03:50):
Craig burn I gave it an A plus and Craig
gave it an A plus. No surprise there, we loved it,
highest marks possible on our letter grade scale for Rosetta.
So here on the top ten episodes. I am once
again joined by Lance Laster from Always hold On to Arrow,
Victoria Malay, and Matt Truix from Lolson Clark, the New

(04:12):
podcast of Superman, and many of the podcasts here on
the Always Hold On To network and Patreon. So, without
further ado, let's discuss the number three episode of Smallville,
Rosetta on.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
The WB's New Tuesday, A legendary urns.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
I've been expecting you to unlock.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
The secrets of Clark's past.

Speaker 5 (04:32):
It's too dangerous, Clark, What's wrong? No matter what I
find out, it is not going to change the way
I feel about you.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
Christopher Reeve, you must write your own destinay. Can what
Clark will learn Criptoon will change everything?

Speaker 5 (04:46):
Can I tell you a secret?

Speaker 4 (04:47):
A small lil.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Evand Rosetta quote unquote the one Christopher Reeve. If this
was an episode of Friends, that's what they would have
called it. Christopher Reeve. Now he's actually in two episodes,
but this one's much better than the other one.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
I have a feeling the next one isn't one or
two on our list?

Speaker 3 (05:11):
No, yes, this is the only christ To Reeve episode
on the top ten list. Legacy did not make it,
so I was looking at our top ten list here
that we also made it before we started this. Victoria,
you ranked Rosetta second on your top ten list, so
you are a big fan. Lance. This is your sixth
favorite episode of the show, big fan. Yeah, and me

(05:32):
it was my fourth favorite episode. So we're all big
fans here. The Mats, unfortunately, are not fans of This
episode does not appear on their top ten list.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Because they don't have souls.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
Okay, I can't defend that statement.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Defend yourself. Why do you hate Christa Reeve is superman?

Speaker 5 (05:50):
I would like to retroactively remove x Ray and or
Perry from this list and slot in Rosetta because I
did very much enjoy rewatching this episode. You know, I
was making this list for you. I was a jury duty.
It was a rough couple of weeks. I don't remember.
It might have just slipped my mind, but it's definitely
up there. But yeah, the lack of Saul, I can't

(06:11):
I can't speak to I.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Really like x Ray and Perry me too. If I
had to drop one, I guess it'd be x Ray.

Speaker 5 (06:17):
I think x Ray. But it was like the first
one where it was just like, oh this show, this
is what the show's going to be, you know, like
I just I remember loving that episode.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
So there you go. There, there's your tally board for
our success rate. So again, things are coming back around
to myself. We started this, people are like, what do
you got? What is this list? You know, I was
not in alignment with my fans, but now because we
get to the top of the list, we're all on
the same page. Here. I mean, I felt like required
to give it an a plus on the podcast because
it's like it's the Christive episode, Like how could you
not right rewatching it? Like a Lance Night watched these

(06:48):
before we record these when we can, and it's funny.
I'm watching, I'm like, is there is there? Like you know,
everybody knows Jurassic Park tapping on the cameras like starty
Chris to Reeve and this Chris to Reeve episode. You're
waiting a lot, and there's a lot of like high
school drama and other stuff going on, and it takes
a while to get to it, but once you get there,
it is definitely a plus. Once that arrives. Nothing compares

(07:09):
to seeing Christopheve literally pass the torch to Tom Walling
a Superman. So I mean that that is everything.

Speaker 5 (07:18):
I forgot how much was in this episode. I forgot
about the flying in the beginning, and I really liked
this doesn't happen for me all the time. I really
liked Clark's character throughout this entire episode, how they played
him and just his drive to of course want to
finally find this out, finally start putting these puzzle pieces together,

(07:39):
you know, and like I just rewatched it before we
started recording, too, and it was just like the line
when he's talking to the Kents and he kind of
convinces them that he has to go see him, and
Jonathan's like, Okay, well, if you're gonna go, we'll go
as a family. It's like, no, this is this is
the only way. And it's just like, I really enjoyed
that interpretation of Clark and the drive to I just

(08:01):
need to know what happened. And then the Christopherievo it
all is awesome and he's legitimately good and he's got
some great lines, and it's a terrible act out because
it's just like do you want to hear the rest
of the riddle? It would come back later, you know,
But I get why you do it to kind of
stretch that scene out a little bit. And the Chloe
line of thing is fine and actually advances character for them,

(08:23):
so that's nice. But yeah, I loved this episode. It
was so nice to have to watch it again.

Speaker 6 (08:30):
I think Smallville is at its best when it's really
just driving into these like familial themes, and I think
that was like the most beautiful aspect of the episode
to me. It's like this moment. I think because Smavelle
was on the air for so long, you kind of
forget how these discoveries were made, like really yes, And
I think also just in the larger Superman Lord, you're like, yes,

(08:51):
Clark Ken is from is kaw El and he's from
Krypton in this And also because like that whole relationship
with Jorrel becomes such an integral part of the show
that it's it was funny to be reminded of like
how that all began again because smallvel ran for ten
seasons and I just thought it was done really beautifully.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
And I love that they brought Black the Flying.

Speaker 6 (09:14):
I think because this is the episode to like cheat
on your rule with and the family dynamic was handled beautifully.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I forgot Martha had a pregnancy story.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
I always forget about the kids.

Speaker 6 (09:28):
Well, but then I remember that's the big thing that
causes the act break in Exodus, so I'm like, all right,
I'll let it happen. And then because there's also like
some biblical themes, and there's like there's like Superman has
biblical themes, but then there was like a biblical thing
with like it makes me think of.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Anyway we don't need to get into it, but.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
Like you're saying, like that that Christopher Reeve is genuinely good.
It's like, I think we all just know I'm a superman,
but he was a Juilliard trained actor, and it's amazing
to be able to see him, especially.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
For a younger audience, to.

Speaker 6 (09:59):
See him flex those chops without wearing the suit. And
then also, I actually did enjoy the Chloe Lana subplot
of it all because I think you're right, it advances
character for them. It's like one of these beautiful moments
where Lana's.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
In the wrong.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
And like, but but it's legitimate and it's handled beautifully
and I actually think it's.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Like it felt genuine and authentic to me.

Speaker 6 (10:23):
But and again, but it's resolved in this way where
that relationship is better for it.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
I don't know, it's kind of nice to go back
to Season two is my.

Speaker 6 (10:32):
Favorite season of smallvilleh it was fun to revisit, like
a real sweet spot. I oh, and one more thought
before it escapes my mind again. This episode, like small
Ville was such a pioneer for a genre television, and
this episode I feel like really cemented bringing back people
who have played the characters in other iterations.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
And that's the other episode, Matt.

Speaker 6 (10:56):
But I mean, like, yeah, you had that with I
think a net o'tool was kind of could have kind
of just been like a fun trivia fact, because I
mean she she like Superman three, like she that's not
the iconic Superman movie we all remember, not that a
netto tool wasn't the most love of wasn't just the
love wasn't the loveliest of Wana Lang's.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
And she was the second Martha Cant like, she wasn't
even the one that they didn't go out and waited
a cast to the game with. But yes, good point, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:20):
Yeah, fair point.

Speaker 6 (11:21):
So the way it was so intentionally done and like who,
like there's no one better to tell Clark where it's
from than doctor Swan, and it's nice for him to
have like a mentor who's not quite so quick messed
up and yeah no, and like just thinking of it,
just it set.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
This this precedent in television in modern in like the
past like ten fifteen years of television, and like you
watch this episode and you understand why yeah about you AT's.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
You know the fact that Christopher Eve is in the
episode just takes it to New Heights really and this
for me, this had to make my list, just be
like for for that fact alone. And then in addition
to all of that, we get all of the mythology
and world building that it goes on in this episode,
we get like you know, and you know, Clark finds
out finally about Krypton and like we speak Krypton's name

(12:13):
for the first time, right, and so, which is a
really cool yeah, and cal El which is a really
cool thing to finally hear on the show after watching
it for a year and then like you know, getting
back into it and it's like, oh, this is really
really interesting stuff, and like it's it's really cool to
see what they were planning to do, you know in
these early stages, like because it didn't obviously didn't pan

(12:33):
out like quite how what Like you know, a lot
of the fan theories were back in the day with
the Cryptonian mythology and how everything kind of went through.
But like at the beginning stages of this is like,
oh wow, there's so many different avenues we can kind
of go through as far as Clark's origin is concerned.
And I just love how the ending it gives us
something that we're not expecting, like you know, like that message,

(12:54):
that final message that's revealed in the heart of the ship.
It's like, ooh, this is definitely a different take. This
is not us watching you know, Superman the movie. This
is quite different. And the fact that it's Christopher Reeve
who gets to tell Clark who he is, where he's from,
and fill in those gaps is just too perfect. And
he as You're right, he is a Julliard train actor

(13:15):
and it's great to see him on screen, and he
was great. So yeah, that's the highlight for me, and
that's the reason why it made my list. And I'd forgotten,
like all of you have forgotten about a lot of
these other plots that were going on in the episode,
like doctor Walden. I chuckle what every time I see
Doctor Walden because he always made me laugh. And then
the the Chloe Lana stuff, the family tree thing. It

(13:39):
was good to see Pete simple. I agree with Zach.
I probably would like taking off my fandom lenses. I
wouldn't give it an A plus, but it still would
get an A because this is definitely a really good episode.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Also, it just reminded of hearing you speak Lance.

Speaker 6 (13:58):
I also think another thing, it's it's one of those
things because I see I've heard interviews with other actors
and I've experienced it a little bit myself that when
you're when you're paired with another amazing actor, and I think,
like a generous actor like Christopher reeve Is, it raises
your game.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
And I honestly thought this was some of Tom Welling's
best acting.

Speaker 6 (14:16):
Like especially with all the discoveries and everything that Clark
is going through. Like you, I felt like I was
truly feeling for him and rooting for him and and
the choices that he was making and just him standing
his ground because I think it would have been very
easy for him.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
No, Butnverters, Yeah, exactly, he did that.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
He played that beautifully.

Speaker 6 (14:43):
It also, I think is indicative of the value of
patience and the fact that they waited till the end
of season two to reveal kal El and Crypton, I think,
and I'm glad they waited for it because they did
it in one of the most like perfect ways possible. Also,
just kind of going off what we've been discussing, it's
one of the most memorable episodes of Small holl I

(15:04):
feel I think that's why it came on everyone's list.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Or that is like exert for the mats. So these
guys are here, I.

Speaker 6 (15:10):
Mean, but now that we're having retroactive corrections, it's just
because the two Superman's and also because I think they
had did anyone else? Is anyone else's head canon that? Like,
I hate how Dean Kane was in the how he
was introduced in Smallville. He should not have been freaking
the week. He totally should have been doctor Swan's son.
Is that just the me feeling?

Speaker 5 (15:31):
Oh, that would have been great.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Wouldn't that been really.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Cool if he would have been somebody that was like
more substantial and like was was going to stick around
for a little bit or come back.

Speaker 6 (15:41):
From the Swan Institute, Like, I don't know, You're totally right, Victoria,
that season we needed somebody else from the Swan world too.

Speaker 5 (15:50):
It would have been perfect and who better.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
The problem with the Swan family, if you will, right,
is they we're talking about We were joking about this
for like that because Clark Clark listen to me, Christopher
Reeve tells Clark Clark tells Clark secret will never leave
this room, And I was like, yeah, except for my
ex girlfriend and have my daughter about it because in

(16:15):
season seven, the season of the Red cod right, he
has a daughter and she's like a little older than Clark.
So again, I having a son, Dean Kane's age would
be too old for a character like Christer Reeve is playing.
I guess they could be.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
No, did you guys see Christopher Ee when he was younger,
he could have had a baby.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
Like.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
He could have been making babies.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
At a very young age. There's like come on, and
then there's that scene. But there's that scene in Crusade
Bridge Crosby and Martha mean and she's like, you're not
supposed to know about Clark and she goes, no, no, no,
he promised. She kind of retcons.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Whatstut did it happen? Yeah, Virginal God, I know.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's such a classic radcon.

Speaker 6 (16:55):
But like, because Lois Lane is telling you us, I'm like, Okay,
what whatver you say?

Speaker 1 (17:00):
And then I would have been I don't care, or
even if I don't, I don't care. Like there's of
all the of all the sharks we jumped in small.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Though, but yeah, so so speaking of the Superman's and stuff,
I did what you guys have been saying, I think
there's three does a great performance here?

Speaker 1 (17:16):
He does?

Speaker 3 (17:16):
You know, he's not just he did just show up.
I'm all right, guys, you're gonna promote my charity and
I'm gonna be on your show for a day and
then I'm gonna go buy my business. Like no, no,
he came in, he came to work, and he worked
longer than he was supposed to.

Speaker 5 (17:28):
He's like, no, I remember this.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
You know he was he showed up to play. He
didn't show up just to collect a paycheck. And it
comes through in the screen.

Speaker 6 (17:34):
And I also think I just remember again from like
the depths of my my middle school memory, I think
I remember Tom Welling also talking about like because there's
obviously a very present, hard to ignore physical aspect of him,
like being able to like do a sixteen hour day
on set, and like, I don't know, it just shows
like what like how he truly he truly was Superman.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah, and they were they were gonna shoot it kind
of more boring, but Chris Reeve was like, no, let's
do some stuff with the camera like this, Let's do that,
because you know, let's just face the prince a stationary
person in a chair. They did a lot of stuff
with blocking Tom's walking around him, and you know, I
think he did just just this a little like you know,
we'll I ever get the second part of the message
and he gives them that look.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Oh yeah. His facial expressions throughout the entire thing were
just like fantastic. It's like he's like really bringing it
and it was so refreshing and nice to see even
even now, like we miss seeing him. You know, it's
so good that we have him in this capacity.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah. Really not not that the show needed the stamp
of legitimacy, but it doesn't get more legitimate than that.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yes, no, it totally does.

Speaker 6 (18:37):
And again it was like this major thing and again
it like set this precedent. I think I said this
the first time I was ever on the podcast, but
like you all want to know something spooky. The first
time I ever watched the Superman movie because I watched
Smallville first and then I was like, oh, I should
probably watch the Superman movie. It was in October and
it was the weekend Chris Reeve died.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Oh weird, weird.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
If you got have not read his autobiography, still me
should definitely read it. And nothing is impossible to follow up.
They're I mean, they're very bittersweet. Now sure is obviously
I didn't walk again, but just to hear like his struggle,
like he is brutally honest, like he's like, yeah, like
if I wasn't rich and famous, I would have died
because it takes resources to do this. Yeah, but it's

(19:20):
very fascinating to read, and you know you'll get the feels,
you know, especially people like us reading that. But but
I highly highly recommend his his autobiography. So yeah, and
you know he is in one scene practically, but they
cut it up into two, which was I think smart.
It makes you feel like he's there long none is
they build up the character, you know, like oh he
was in I T when he was nineteen cover of
Time magazine in the seventies. Yeah, and I love.

Speaker 6 (19:43):
That they use Time again, Like I just has this
like stample legitimacy.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yes, I want the copy of Time magazine of three
year old Lona Lang and Virgil Swat the Man of Tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
They sell them on I've got that one, Oh my god.
But yeah, like to that, like not to mention the
fact that he's here and he's doing great and all that,
but like they write him a very intriguing character, and
I think it's cool that he's an original character to
the show, like they didn't. Yes, he doesn't bring anything

(20:16):
with him, doctor right exactly, there's no comics lore mixed
in with it. It's just like everybody, the audience and
the characters get to be kind of anxious and excited
about meeting him and what's this guy actually like and
just like there's no preconceived notion for it at all
except for the fact that obviously it's going to be him.

Speaker 6 (20:37):
Well, I think, And again that's where like Smallville really shines,
especially in the early seasons, is when it walks this
line of like retelling us the parts of the mythology
that we all know and love, but also infusing its
own element into it.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
And so like I know, I think in the movie
he just does he just find it all out when
he goes to.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
The want to touch on this is something I actually
want to bring up. Thank you for this story because
to me, as a superman like Peist Guy Pearist, I
don't know, I've read the comics, I've seen the movies,
Like I know the story burned in my brain. Sure
Is it odd to y'all that he didn't find all
this out through the traditional I'm going to find a
crystal and my dad's gonna show up in a hologram.

(21:17):
He's gonna tell me, right, is it weird? Like I don't,
I don't dislike it. I just like, this is aproach.
No scientist from Earth tells him this.

Speaker 6 (21:25):
I kind of love it because I think it also
to me, it grounds it and makes it more real
because like when it's like that, the story is very insular,
but it like expands it into the quote unquote real world,
and I think the other And then again, just like
by virtue of it being Christopher Reeve, like the fact
that we all.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Know the person who is telling him this is Superman
Like it's it's very meta, yes.

Speaker 6 (21:52):
Yeah, but but it's like where meta works so beautifully
and I and then I personally love it again, like
I think small those at its best, but it's re
imagining elements that we all know and love, because I
think that's a problem with media today. We I think
we think we just want like what we like with
the Lion King, like everyone's like we just want a
shot for shot remake, and then they got a Shot

(22:13):
for Shot remake.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
And they're like, h, but I thought it was.

Speaker 6 (22:16):
I thought it was really interesting and I wish and
I get I get the like the logistical constraints with
with Chris Reeve and then also with Margot Kidder and
then not parallel flatting my Dean cane head cannon, Like
I get why the Swan Institute couldn't have been more,
But I thought it could have been really interesting. I think,
oh my god, now I'm just my brain's running.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Away with me.

Speaker 6 (22:36):
It could have been like his Earth Fortress of Solitude,
or like his earth like Earth like almost like an
earthly outpost of his Kryptonian almost like his own like
bat cave and squad, rather than him just going to
a fortress set every episode interesting.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, well, I mean I agree with you and how
that works. And the cool thing about it is we
kind of end up getting both. Like we get this
and we get Superman telling Superman that he's Superman basically, right,
which is great, yes, But then we but like you know,
as the show moves along, we get Clark having interactions

(23:15):
with his holographic father, right and like him putting him
through trials and telling him bits of information that he
needs to know on a need to know basis. So
we get both. And so I think the way that
Smallville did it works, I do.

Speaker 6 (23:28):
Too, And I think it's also actually comes down to form.
I think in a movie or a comic book, you
need to do it at a certain pace. But Smallville, again,
I think they're originally you know, they're aiming for five seasons.
I think they did it really beautifully kind of.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Around halfway point issue halfway point.

Speaker 6 (23:44):
They introduce this and then they don't introduce too much,
so you can still have that like classic discovery to.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
That point to Victoria, like in a movie. In a
comic book, it can be backstory, it can be a
plot point. Here they've got a mind drama from it,
like not every week. Obviously we've got the meteor, fhreaks
and all that, but like that has to be an
ongoing cycle. And but that's going to be ongoing, That's
going to be the big you know story for Clark constantly,

(24:11):
which is why I've always loved the idea of like
I was sent here to conquer? What type of world
was I follow? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, no, I love that too. And to your pointing
in Victoria about the story, you know, but different. I
liked early small Violle and was like, oh, Joel might
kind of be have nefarious intentions. It's like, oh, well,
then it truly is nature versus nurture for Clark as
well as Lex. I thought that was a pretty bold idea,
and a lot of people like nice who cares like

(24:38):
this is general. They bring in Terrence Stanp that just
reinforces the fact that you know, And so I love
the double nature of this because, like the whole episode
is very hopeful and ant. The end, there's like that
twinge of the twist of Joel might not be the
nicest guy. And then Johnson's like, no, I'm I'm your father.
I raised you and I know you better than anyone

(24:58):
that have that house. Yeah, it's beautiful, he comforts Clark,
but then you kind of spit around the camera. Jonathan's like,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, it's very much like yeah, And it's very much
like the Mary Jane look at the end of Spider
Man Too. It's like she shall be but then she
realizes what she's gotten herself into. The second with Jonathan.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
Here, yep, But I love that they use this and
then Krypton wound up the show. Krypton wound up doing
it too. But I love that they use the like
established canon DC Kryptonian alphabet in the show, and they
make these f lifts out of it, and like Clark
even has that line of like, well it's all kind
of jumbled in my head, but then they do kind
of keep that going forward sometimes unless it's just like

(25:36):
the little lines on the on the tagonal disc or
the quatchis. But yeah, I like the look of it.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, the emails that Swan sim zim because of this, right.
I love the fact he says says he's a friend,
because that's what Chris Reeve Superman told Marketers a little
slaying Superman the movie. So it's like these people but
that's the right kind of an service, Like they walked
a fine line and they did it so well here
and to the character. Speaking of the emails, it is

(26:05):
always funny to see that what the emails are, they
are at the digital wave wave.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
Just hearing the internet boot up in the farm was amazing.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Iconic.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
And you know, speaking of the Cloe line of thing,
I you know, I will say in these iconic episodes
on the surface, I'm like, I find it distracting, like
an insurgence. When it's like Wana had a suplot where
she met her biological chat. I was like, oh that,
but Les Luthor Junior was his name, and yes it
was ultimately two els, thank you so. But in this one,

(26:41):
I will say despite the kind of although we laugh
at the drama, it's so accurate though. It's like, Oh,
I'm gonna let my friend use my computer. Oh, she's
going to go through all my stuff. Oh she's going
to see me pictures, see some pictures. I haven't be
in this guy. It's just I had to laugh. But
it was so because I was like, oh my god,
that's this episode. I forgot. I remember that happened, but
I forgot it was this episode. And did you said, Victoria?

(27:04):
A lot of was actually wrong here and that was
nice and it was so funny to see Clark follow
over himself to try to get Chloyd to forgive her it.
Let me guess you caught her stupid around your stuff.
It's like, no, actually the other way around, Clark.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
And then Chloe basically like not today, Clark.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yes, but but but it ties in at the end
though it ties into the theme of genealogy where it's
like you, sister, yeah, and I'm going to choose your family.
And so that's I got it, Like like you know,
they brought it home and it worked yous to them. Well.

Speaker 6 (27:33):
Then also, just like on a macro level, it's just
also women in media and also in life, and I
think it's a vicious cycle that informs each other. They're
pitted against each other to compete for men. Like it's
like there's this thing where women are always they can't
work together because there's like good men are like this
finite resource, and so it gets fairy and that's why

(27:54):
you get the cattiness and the competitiveness, and so the
fact that their arc in the beginning of a story
start it as that. But they were able, especially teenage girls,
were able to rise above it and like grow stronger
in their relationship for I don't know, however, many episodes
before we hit the reset.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Button, I was like, good job, we need to see
that more.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
It's a rare moment where you see them actually as
like bonding as friends because it's like why why they're
they're living together now? And it's like it's just seemed
very accelerated. But it's nice when they when they don't
take the easy route, say hey, one of them show
us of the other one because of Clark, Da da
da da, Right, And that wasn't the point here, as
Chloe says, this is about me and Clark, it's about
you violating my privacy, which is such.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
A sister saying.

Speaker 6 (28:40):
I mean, I grew up with a sister and so
I live with my sister, and it's I think that's
why I was.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Like, this feels real.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
And I got to say one last time about it.
I love the promo shots from season only. Hats of
her clock is the best. Yeah, she went to crypto
on site and downloaded all those things.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
Pete had nothing to do apparently, Oh no, he's dating.
He was dancing with that girl though he was so
excited about it.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
But that was probably like one dance Matt and the
rest of the night.

Speaker 6 (29:17):
I think it says a lot about the episode when
you're kind of waiting for the Michael Rosenbaum scenes to end.

Speaker 5 (29:23):
That's that's interesting. Also, Glex is like, I can't believe
he showed Walden that family tree that easy.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Also, Clark, why do you take that trush?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
With the idiot terrible basketball play. Pete used to beat
them all the time basketball really, but that shows up
in the Room of Clark Kit it does. Yeah, the
blown up Midu or.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
He deserved it, he brought that upon himself.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
And the Walden the whole time is like there's something
up with his Clark kent and then like he literally
shows some proof of it and it's like, oh, this
means nothing.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, oh Walden. I gotta say, like, uh, that's a
great segue too, because I wanted to bring up the
Lexus whole stupplat in this. The Walden lex stuff was interesting.
And then at the end with Walden at the time
on the Internet, we're like, oh, he's gonna be brainiac
obviously because like the Krypton it's zaps him and then

(30:15):
he's into like a coma and he's got the white
eyes and he's got all the electrodes on his head,
and it's like this is brainiac, Like this is comic
book BRAINI act, you know, so you know it had
they were playing the long game, like it was like
arrow or something with like KGB beasts or something, they
could have like put him, carted him away to Belle
reeve for a few years and brought him back five
years later, and he could be brainiact, but they didn't

(30:37):
know that, so they brought him back in the season
finale and has one of my favorite one liners, the
day is coming anyway. That's doctor Walden. Lex has this
this succession of scientist characters, and this guy was you know,
he's he's like a I don't know, how do you
decribe it, like a schlovey professor. I liked that. This
guy's apparently, in a lot of stuff, is a character actor,
and I thought he was a fun character. Again, Smallville

(30:58):
having its own identity, right, It wasn't make some character
from the comics. It was.

Speaker 5 (31:03):
Already killed the character from the comics.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
So they thought Doctor Hamilton earlier this season to bring
back a second Doctor Hamilton, as the show is prone to.

Speaker 5 (31:10):
Do Miles Tyson or mister Gated.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
There must be two.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
But really Lex almost hit Clark with his car again.

Speaker 6 (31:18):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I like, well, you know what, you know what that's
called growth?

Speaker 5 (31:25):
Pether breaks.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Everybody's on point here, the cancer on point, all their actions,
all these things.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
Schneider kills it in this episode like he's got in
his eyes every time he talks to Clark. It's awesome.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
I'm not ready to give that up yet.

Speaker 6 (31:40):
Yes, because it because it works on so many levels.
Because too, it's just this essential thing of when your
child's growing up and you have to start giving them
their independence and letting them make their own way in
their world. But it's on like the highest level possible
because like this, because he's Superman.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
Can I we're all over the place here, right, Can
I take this to a geeky question place please?

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Of course they never do that.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
The Kawachi Caves was this, like it was kind of
the first time I really thought about this and maybe
I'm just dumb, and that was the whole idea the
whole time, But like was was the whole idea of
the technology. They're kind of a primitive version of crystal
Kryptonian technology because like I was watching it going like
this is magic, Like the stuff is moving on the thing.

(32:27):
This is dumb, This is like god Jarrell later this
is just dumb. But then I'm like, well, there might
actually be precedent for them using actual, you know formations
like that.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Tell me why I can't download apps on my iPhone
that are you know out of date yet, yet Jurrell
can send a discreds of years later in interacts this wall.

Speaker 5 (32:49):
I cannot tell you this at all.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
So I mean that's the probably not again smavel having
some identity, you know a lot of it that's coming
up a lot in this conversation. So, uh, they had
they had the metallic things, you know, like yeah, shapes
and the heart of the you know, the heart of
the ship. Like these are all like, oh, this is
all alien technology.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
A line in the in the episode that made me
laugh was when Clark's at the talent and he's talking
a lot about what's going on, and he looks at
her and he's like, you want to know a secret?
And then Lana's eyes just light up so excited and
then she responds appropriately. But you know, she was excited
to hear that question. That's the questions she's been dying
to hear. And I think that she lit.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
Up, and then she tempered her expectations with him too,
like she came back down to earth and was like
play cool, play coolay, cool too.

Speaker 6 (33:34):
I think it also works because Clark did actually he
was actually vulnerable with her, so even though he didn't
tell her the you know, capital t the secret.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Like I like the fact that again he opened up
to her.

Speaker 6 (33:46):
With something that was something that's again generally relatable, like
something that's very universal.

Speaker 5 (33:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Well, and I think the way they play up Clark's
you know, heritage and him trying to discover his pass right,
they do make it really relatable to for someone who
is adopted. I mean, none of us are adopted, so
we really we can't relate to that. But you know,
if I was adopted watching, it's like, oh man, it's
just me. It's my life, man, Like, you know, I
connect to enough stuff in this show, you know. But
I thought I thought that was pretty clever because we

(34:15):
mentioned earlier, we were talking about how they made it
a journey. You know, it wasn't just an info dump,
you know, like here there's everything, here's a fortress, your
superhero super basically.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
And so then he's like crypto galll and touches it,
and you know, and he realizes the importance. And I
think you said it off the top victory, like he
like that we we forget that that we didn't know
these things in this universe at this time, and.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
Wasn't the thing like Tom didn't know anything to.

Speaker 6 (34:41):
Is so good in this because it's just literally.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Oh, I'm superman.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
He didn't know, he didn't know he was a superman.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
What Oh my god, what.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
I guess I'll just go back to my plan.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Well actually he uh one of these interviews about working
with Christine, he said Chriss like trying to tell himself, no, no,
I don't want to know that yet. I'm like, I'm
sure you don't. Tom, But hey, hey, three cheers for
Tom Willing, for going back for Christi and forse am.
I right, very good, guys. That was not planned. So no,
I mean, yeah, I think that that that uh, there

(35:18):
is there is a logic to that though, Like for
all the you know bs I'm saying about Tom, like
he wants to discover it with the character, so he's
not sitting like, yeah that's I know, it comes brainy
act blah blah blah blah blah. Like if it's new
to him, it's fresh and and I think this is
really one of his best performances as well. He brought
his a game at you know, game matches game, So.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
Yeah, it's funny. It's just like almost the complete opposite
of what I feel like the actors are now, like
especially like a Steve Amel where it's just like you
feel like he just like breathe this green arrow and
Tom just like couldn't give it.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
But it's fun, Like I like that we can laugh.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Oh no, I totally cool. And like I said, this
was a wonderful episode for him.

Speaker 6 (35:57):
I just feel like, well, I guess it didn't happen
with Legacy, but I just feel like having Christopher Reeve
just literally like not.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
In, not even in the scenes he's in, but literally
just elevated everyone.

Speaker 5 (36:08):
Yes, yeah, just knowing that it was that episode.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Obviously, this is a great episode. You could talk five
hours about it, but in little moments you want to
mention here before we wrap up and call it a
day for this episode.

Speaker 5 (36:21):
Just a little trivia thing, wasn't the inside ring of
the ship like when you finally see it, which by
the way, looked really cool, Like I really like how
like wet and like formed. It feels. It feels very
alien inside there. But I think some of them translated
it online back in the day and the center ring
was like made in China.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
All those production design in jokes are hilarious.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
I don't know I just think there's something to be
said for having heavyweight guest stars. And I think this
was like the first time small boat really stuck the landing.
And again, I think it's impacted television for the past
fifteen years.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
And I guess you're right too, because you can't think
of another version or like another incident where legacy casting
like this was so huge, was so prevalent, Like they
had him Adam West in an episode of the Batman
animated series, which is really cool. Yeah, but this is
a totally different level.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Great score. Also, by the way, I love how they
wove yeah, the Superman themes and the planet Krypton theme
during their conversation.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Ye a plus.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
And they did this once more in Exodus and never again.
So thank you for bringing it up, Plantsy. We were
remiss not to mention the iconic John Alliance music. It's
what I'm here for.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
So what are you Man or Superman?

Speaker 4 (37:39):
The WB is new Tuesday is the biggest night on
television and the critics are blown away by small Ville.
It's the hot shol of the season. One of the
finest dramas on television. Smallville is sicily exciting, awful, dazzling,
brilliant and smart. The New York Times calls it immensely satisfying.

(38:01):
Small deal.

Speaker 6 (38:09):
Please help us conker call that Chrisphrae Proalysis Foundation at
one eight hundred two two five zero.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
Two nine two, or visit the CRPF website at chrispher
Reeve dot org.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
Thank you, thank you, oh, thank you very much, thank you.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
Please please call.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
All right. I hope you all enjoyed our discussion on Rosetta.
It's always intimidating to talk about one of these best
of the best episodes because what else can you say
about it?

Speaker 6 (38:43):
Right?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Obviously, beyond other Chris Reeve material, there is Clark flying,
putting the key in the cave wall, doctor Walden. There's
the colde Alana stuff going on, which we responded well to,
as you heard in our conversation. So because sometimes that
can be distracting when they try to wedge in some
of the high school stuff in this high mythology episode,
like hey, let's get let's get back to this, let's

(39:05):
get back to let's get back to the three plot please.
So this episode just works together so well in all fronts,
with the theme of family and found family and oh, God,
that final scene between Clark and Jonathan activating the ship,
Jonathan giving him those words of encouragement after that scary
message from Krypton, and then doing that three sixty with

(39:25):
the camera and revealing that Jonathan he might be a
little concerned about that message after all, despite the strong
front he's putting on for Clark. Also, one of the
most I guess controversial things about James Gunn Superman was
making Kryptonians Aleis, Jaurella, and Laura a little uh less
altruistic than we're used to seeing them in other forms

(39:46):
of media. And you know, I didn't love that film
as much as I was supposed to, but that wasn't
one of my problems with it. Actually. I was used
to that idea from Smallville, and if anything, small well
backtrack on it, and I certainly hope that they don't
backtrack on it on the DCU. Let's explore that further,
because look, nature versus nurture one of the key ideas

(40:09):
of Smallville with Clark and Lex you approach that with
adopted family and biological family, and there's a lot of
material to be mine there and I hope they continue
to do so in the DCU because Smallville. You know,
they eventually turned Terence Stamps Durell more or less than
the Marlon Brando's Jerrell, and they had such a unique
take on the character for a while there. Hey, let's

(40:29):
see it through in the DCU. We'll see what happens
as of this recording. We don't know yet. So as
we've been keeping track on the top ten episodes, the
needle drops the bangers. Now, I've already mentioned the use
of the Superman theme in the series finale, which is
on the top ten list. That won't count here, but
you know there are a couple bangers in this episode.

(40:49):
I'm gonna have to go with Coldplay's The Scientist. I
feel like Coldplay epitomizes the early two thousands, and they
appeared more than once on That song was everywhere, and
whenever I hear it, I think of Smallville because I
hear Nons marble at first, as I do with so
many of these songs. So there were some other songs
in Rosetti it could have picked as well. So I'm

(41:11):
making an arbitrary decision and saying Cole plays The Scientist
is the needle drop of the episode. So we're continuing
our trend of needle drops in almost every top ten episode.
But again for Salvation, we're just gonna go with Rumy
zero save me for that one. But Cole plays the
scientist and that's in a scene, not even in a
scene with Doctor Swan. Do you think they want to

(41:32):
use that with Doctor Swan? Maybe, but no smart to
use the re orchestrated John Williams themes by Mark Snow,
masterfully done in those scenes and around everything Kryptonian. I
just wish they could have done that more on the show.
They did it at the end of season two as well,
but then after that, no John Williams music until the
very very end of the show when it's literally the

(41:54):
exact music from John Williams, the actual recordings from Superman
the movie when Mark Snow orchestrated them here too great effect.
So again, I hope you all enjoyed our conversation. Stay
tuned next week to find out which episode is the
number two episode of Smallville as voted by you the listeners,
and until then, Always hold on To Smallville. Always hold

(42:37):
on To Smallville is part of the Always Hold on
To network of podcasts and brought to you by listeners
like you, Chris Fuchs, Cavante, Chillis, Joey Dienberg, In Seon,
Corey Moore, Nathan Ropatcher, Isaiah Goodrich, Tief Chic, John Curcio, Markidz, Foppin,
Patricia Carrillo, Rhythm Chameleon, Jim Crawford, Casey Vach, Marie Humphrey,

(42:59):
Alex Handlerlton, Matt Douglas, Daniel Curiel, Meryl Smith, Treffas Hull,
Matt b Amy, j Mike Franz, Martin Ryan, Nathan McKenzie,
Steve Rogers, Molly Ficcarilla, James Lee, Jason Davis, Patrick Bravo,
Alex Ramsey, Tay Tay, Rob O'Connor, Tina b Jake Jacob,

(43:21):
Darren Kirsht, Dylan de Antonio, Nick Roon Magdoza, Eddie Bissell,
Nicholas Fansler, John mong Ruth An Haymond, Travis Kill, Mike Thomas,
Nina j Gordon, Bond, Bay, Michael h Laura Dosriels, Cheryl
dj Dowinna, Nicholas Cosso, Jared Gibbs, Anthony Anderson, Keith Falls,

(43:44):
James Hart, Anthony Deciatto, Crystal Cross, Karen Kumar, and Lorenzo Valdez.
Thank you so much to all these patrons, and you
two can become a patron by going to patreon dot
com slash Always Malville with one S. Hope to see
you there. Always hold on to Smallville's theme music is
by Lance Laster and our podcast art is by Tom Gurky.

(44:06):
You can follow us on Twitter at always Maulville with
one S. You can find us on Facebook at always
hold on to Smallville, and you can send us an
email at Alwaysmaulville at gmail dot com. Once again, with
one S, thanks for listening.