Top 10 Episodes: #6 Salvation

Our countdown of the top 10 episodes of Smallville continues! Zach, Lance Laster from Always Hold On To Arrow, Victoria Male, Matt Truex from Lois & Clark'd: The New Podcasts of Superman and Matthew Rocca discuss the #6 episode as voted by you the listeners..."Salvation"!

Check out Lance on Always Hold On To Arrow!

Check out Victoria's work on her website!

Check out Matt's work including Lois & Clark'd: The New Podcasts of Superman at The Daily Knockoff!

Check out and support Rocca's latest project, Morte.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Alena Huffman, I play the Black Canary on Smallville
and you are listening to Always hold on to Smallville.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Always hold On to Smallville. In this podcast,
we've talked about each and every episode of the Young
Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
twenty eleven on the w BE and the CW. I'm
your host, Sach Moore, and we're back with another Top
ten Episodes. That's right, we are determining the top ten
episodes of Smallville as voted by you, the listeners, and

(01:12):
this time the number six entry Salvation. As has been
well documented over the course of the podcast here, Salvation
is my favorite episode of Smallville, so I was very
happy to see it on the top ten list as
voted by the listeners. So we are in alignment here.
It's not number one, but it's number six, and that's
good enough for me. And this episode delivered as an episode,

(01:35):
as a season finale, as a culmination to everything Season
nine was building towards, character stuff, story stuff, set up
some cool stuff for season ten. What season ten chose
to do with some of those things is on season ten,
not on season nine, not on Salvation, but It's also
sandwiched between to the most in my opinion, disappointing episodes

(01:57):
disappointing finales of the series being Doomsday and Finale. Now
Finale is on this list too, but guess what Salvation
is on this list, but it's higher up on the list.
So that was good to see for me anyway, And
for all the shortcomings that the series finale had, Salvation
makes up for those shortcomings. It makes my disappointment in

(02:17):
the series finale a little softer to take, right because
Salvation really gave me everything I was looking for. Obviously,
you'll hear us talk all about it, that's what we're
here to do. But it's bookended by an amazing tease
into the far future of twenty thirteen with the status
quo the Daily Planet and a Superman tees and Alex

(02:38):
T's and a Jimmy Wilson teese, so many teases, and
then the best fight on the show, Clark and Zodd
in the Rain I don't know, right, coming after the
complete dout of a fight that was Clark and Doomsday
in the previous season finale, I think that really helped
the perception of this one. But even outside of that,
I think it's fantastic and it pays off on character,

(02:58):
it pays off on action, it pays off on execuscution
and resolution, with Clark making the ultimate sacrifice play at
the end. So let's look back on what we gave
Salvation on the letter grade scale on the podcast Proper
Salvation had myself and Lance Laster, and I gave it
an A plus and Lance gave it an A plus.

(03:19):
So clearly we loved this episode and you'll hear us
talk about it here as well. So here on the
top ten episodes, I am once again joined by Lance
Laster from Always sold On to Arrow, Victoria Malay, Matt
Truix from Lewis and Clark, the new podcast of Superman
and mini shows here on the Always hold On To
network and Patreon, and Matthew Roca. So, without further ado,

(03:44):
let's discuss the number six episode of Smallville Salvation.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
I know my.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Destiny, Clark. You owere the truth. There's something I need
to tell you, my people that have you taken this planet?

Speaker 3 (03:58):
And do you constop me?

Speaker 5 (03:59):
If you won't, I sent you to the for a
perpetu Smallville season finale this Friday at eight seventh CENTRALD
on the CW.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Salvation. I have pulled up everyone's list did they voted
for their top ten episodes? And Roka, you're finally not
on the list. Man, this is not on your list.
I believe every episode up to this point you had
because we had Lexmus, we have the pilot, we have finale,

(04:33):
and we had transference in all four of those. Oh
or on your top ten.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
That's craziness, that's madness.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
But your streak is over, my friend, because you did
not vote for Salvation, So shame on you.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Finger on the pulse though, Broka, nice, I feel so ashamed.

Speaker 6 (04:49):
After rewatched it, I was like, why wasn't this on
my top ten?

Speaker 2 (04:51):
But no, you're very in tune with the fans and
the listeners, so well done, Tricks. You did not vote
for this episode either, No, sorry did not. Neither did you, Victoria,
But Lance and I did. It's actually my number one
episode and it's sure number two episode in the right Lance.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yes it is.

Speaker 6 (05:09):
So.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
After season eight, Right Doomsday, which broke me as a
viewer and a fan, I stopped watching the show. I
dvr'd everything. As a Lance, of course, I didn't stop.
I took I've took one foot out of the water. Okay,
not both, Okay, I did anything crazy, but.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Watch this beinge at my house.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
We watched the first half of season nine during the
winter hiatus. That's what we did.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, and then we did the second half like right
before the finale.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
So we did that, and then we watched the second
half of season not like the day before the finale,
and then finale watched by itself. And I gotta say,
sitting there in twenty ten, the most amazing thing I've
ever seen was amazing. The cold open of this show.
I'm like, that shit have been the last scene. And
so listen. We got Lois Lane, we got Perry White,
we got Lex Luthor run for president. Clearly in twenty thirteen.
He was making a run for the twenty sixteen presidency.
So I don't know how you got elected in twenty eighteen. Again,

(05:55):
I'm never gonna let that go. She's calling for Jimmy Olsen.
See a plane, we see the glasses, we see a save.
Amazing Like this episode started at ten, it stayed there
for me. So and then the whole thing was a
great payoff, and the whole zod arc which was great.
The whole Lois and Clark in the blurb plot, like
everything came together in like a perfect way, and this
is such an excellent finale And I was on such

(06:17):
a high after watching this then and watching this now.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, I agree, And for me, I think it was
just like because at this point in the show, it's
basically Superman the TV show. Like in a lot of respects,
this really Legit felt like it was like a Superman
TV show from start to finish as far as the
you know, the pacing, the action, the dialogue, the character moments,
and all the character beats that were going on. It
was just a well done show and a well done

(06:42):
finale and it still holds up. Still love this episode.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
I think out of context it lost a lot of
it sheen. For me, however, there were like some moments
that were really really strong, and I think the strongest
stuff for me was the Loess and Clark stuff and
just knowing like what season ten looked like, just wanting
to rent my hair out and scream, just tell Tell.
And also I think it was also one of like

(07:08):
the strongest final moments, Like final final moments on the
show is like having the season finale of Clark making
what we think is the ultimate sacrifice, calling show's death.

Speaker 7 (07:19):
I thought that was that was Yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Was very supermanesque and you're just like, oh my god,
Like you watch it and you really don't know how
they're going to go from here, so that all the
makings of a great finale.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, I like it too. I agree with Victoria that
it lost a little bit of a shine for me,
but I wasn't like watching religiously at this point either.
But I think it was like over the summer and
I saw that they had said, like yeah, and they
did the flash forward to Metropolis, so that got me,
you know, to watch it. There's some weird parts of it,
but it's like a it's when The Baby Show does
like the End of the World, well, like as kind

(07:54):
of hokey as it is to see like the green
screened Kryptonians on top of like the Washington Monument or
or the Pyramids or whatever.

Speaker 7 (08:01):
Scale is so off, guys, it's so off. It's like
Kat's level off the scale.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
I know, I know it's terrible, but it's better to
me than like what they did in the finale, you know,
like there's parts of it where I'm like, yeah, okay,
you're getting there. And I mean, like that rooftop set
is smaller than the apartment I'm in right now. But
there are parts of it that I really do like.
And they're pulling taffy, you know, like there's the woman
outside of Tessa's room. We don't know who she is,
Granny Goodness yeaheah, Granny Goodness, of course. But I like

(08:28):
the little mysteries that they're leaving out. They didn't wrap
it up, like you know, I liked what they put
in play here a lot.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, they at least acted like they knew where they
were going.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Yeah, and I think they were pretending completely, but still
it was fun.

Speaker 6 (08:40):
It's interesting everyone's saying that it lost to Gene a
little bit out of context because I don't know what
like for me, I watched it just right before popping
on here, completely out of context. I haven't watched season
nine in a long time, and I love Season nine.
It's just I haven't revisited it in quite a while,
and I thought it was almost been stronger, and I
remembered I was like, I was very edge, on the

(09:04):
edge of my seat the whole time, and I felt
like what you guys. I think Lance and Zach you
guys had said about it being like a Superman that
that moment like hit me. When he's in the fortress
for Zod and they had that confrontation, it was like, oh, dude,
this is just completely Superman now, and I love that,
you know, Like it just felt like it was such
an adult, mature take on the series. I get the

(09:27):
whole show had grown up and got to that point
of like, Okay, he's Superman. This is Lewis and Clark,
these this is Zod, these are all the elements all
in place for Grand finale stuff. So like yeah, I
really was like, wow, I should have put this in
my top ten, and it's really really good.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I think Zod is the best non Luther villain on
the show, because Lex and Lionel, you know, at various
points they're villains, they're not right, But Zod is number
three for me because he's a human being. I mean,
he's a Cortonian, right, but he's a person, so he
can like interact with people, like you can have real
story arcs with him, like Doomsday is like a month.
I liked what they did with Davis Bloom in the

(10:07):
first half of season eight, but then after that it
really got messed up and kind of crash and burn.
At the end, Brainiac is really good, but again he's
like only Clark Zod is here affecting all the characters.
He has the thing with Lois and Tests and Clark
and him, and they have their Kryptonian history together, like
I really and Callum Blue was great. I mean, he's
basically a younger Terren Stamp and that's what they're going for,
and they succeeded. And I love like Neil before Zod, right,

(10:29):
they used it completely on ironically at the end where
he's like everyone on this planet and including the woman
you love, will Neil before Zod? And I'm like, yes,
because it's good. It's not cheesy. It's not like, oh
he said the thing, it works in that scenario. And
so what did you guys think of Zod?

Speaker 6 (10:45):
Oh? I loved it. I loved it too. I was, yeah,
I was thinking the same thing. Like like when he
says that Neil was for a odd line, It's like
it totally could have just been like a fun comic
book cheesy kind of thing, but it was legitious. You
felt the suspense of the way he delivered it, and
the way that the threat that he was delivering to

(11:06):
Clark throughout the whole season, but then the threat in
this particular episode and Caleb's performance really reinforced that because
he felt like what you're saying, like you felt three
dimensional and human, and I think part of that was, like,
I don't know, it was an interesting contrast to looking
back at when we just got a small little glimpse

(11:26):
of Ood in season five being inside.

Speaker 7 (11:29):
Of Michael Roseenbau cursor to the podcast.

Speaker 6 (11:37):
So yeah, it's always a really great threat for Clark,
and it felt almost like like a last season level
threat to me, which was like, whenever they can achieve that,
that's awesome, just like when they did way back in
season three with like Linyl, you know, and Covenant, Like
when they can get to that level of WHOA, how's
he going to get out of this and the feels
that evil and that real, it's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, I agree. I never really thought of it like that, honestly, Zach.
But but you're right, he is. He's like the strongest
villain you get, especially since he's not a suit, he's
not CG, he's not a possession of some kind of
to put him in scenes exactly, and like throughout this episode,
some of the regulars like, I love Cassidy Freeman her

(12:20):
acting in this the strongest, especially like when she's dying
in the bed and stuff, and just like that's a.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Hard thing to play. Matt Okay, I'm trying to.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Pay thank you, Zach, but like Kellum is knocking it
out of the park here, something like I've got a
couple of his lines written down because I'm just like
I loved his inflection on it, you know, so, yeah,
I agreed, never thought of it like that.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, I think the best when Smallville is at its best,
it takes this piece of lore from this greater Superman
mythology and totally makes it more fresh and also deepens it.
And I feel like that's what they were able to
do with Zod this season. Watching it out of context,
it is a testament to the actor because he's not
the most physic imposing and honestly, and this is coming

(13:02):
from an Anglo file, I'm like, the accent feels like
a bit much, and I know it's probably his natural accent.
I just think because Terence Stamp has such like this
very he has those like piercing blue eyes, and he
has such a kind of unsettling presence naturally that it's
it's like you're holding him against a bar that's that's
so high. But I think he did a really good

(13:24):
job of like humanizing, like like Rosenbaum did to Lex,
that you kind of see him as a person and
you kind of see the steps in his dissent, and
there's like a lot of dialogue that you know could
have been like Matt was saying that could have been
really cheesy, but he he did a great job. And
even though he's like nowhere near as imposing physically as
Clark is, like you still believe he's a threat. So

(13:46):
can I just say, like why did he whisper something
to Clark when everyone there had superhering?

Speaker 7 (13:50):
Like that was a moment where I.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Was like Superman he always says to outsmart Zota, right.

Speaker 7 (13:55):
Right, but like but it's like everyone can hear.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
I'm just just I'm just I'm putting it on the
table and I'm taking my hands off of it.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
His Hubris did him in Yes, And it was interesting
that season nine, Right, I'm like, oh, this is how
they're showing Superhero now, like really bright light and people
turning their ear It's like the fourth kind of version
of the Special expect. Yeah, it's like we're not we
can't even use the stock footage of the ear drum anymore.
We're not doing that.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
But like t your but like to your point, zact
like the whole Clark did a great job about smarting
him at the very end with like he stabbed himself
so he'd take off the blue cryst so he would
no longer like be holding the blue Krypton and he'd
have to go.

Speaker 7 (14:31):
But that was a moment that felt like.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Again, that was kind of weak to me especially, I mean,
they saved it with that final climactic moment, but I
was like, he knows that they all can hear them
like no, But honestly, I feel because honestly watching it back,
I honestly felt like if it was stronger, if he
just owned it rather than it was like this like
gotcha moment your point.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Well, it's like it's like it's just the line king, right,
He's like I killed my fossil, Right, that's what it is,
you know, and it just you. But I know I
understand what you're saying. But my love for the episode
has been like, Okay, it's fine, this was a bad episode.
I'd be complaining about that for about ten minutes straight.
But so I feel right there.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I was actually gonna mention that it was it's basically
just like the Lion King and the end with the
Thetonians like going after him as oh, I know, I know,
but so they ripped off a good source from the
best exactly. I think that what I like best about
Zod in this season is number one, they had the
patience to really develop him from the start of the
season all the way through to the end of the season,

(15:32):
and we got to spend a lot of time with him.
We got to see his highs and lows, and we
got to see him develop into what we know as Zod.
And it was also good that, like it was an
actual person. It wasn't Michael Rosenbaum, and it wasn't for
just like an.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Episode, because we all know Micro Rosenbaum is not an
actual person.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, so I just liked that, like we got to
spend all that time with him, and all that time
that we got to spend paid off in the end.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
You follow up with dark Side the next season, and
it's like he's a cloud and then he's like zombie
Lionel Luther and it's like, oh, it was so much
better last year, guys, but no, you guys were mentioning
the Kryptonians around the world. It's cheesy, but it's it's one.
It's what we always wanted to see in Superman two, right,
which we never got to see, you know, with with
with Zod taking over the world Statue Statue Liberty, the

(16:21):
other one, the Washington Monument, that kind of thing, all
those political monuments, and then you have to think, Okay,
we have an alien race here who's taking over the earth,
but we have a CW budget, So how do we
do this? So I admire the fact they at least
did there because they're like trucks, like you were saying,
their scope to this, which doesn't exist in the series

(16:43):
finale because you really don't see a lot other than
like Air Force one and Lois and like you don't
see like the globe.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
Despite the fact that the world is in jeopardy.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
There's like a dope clip show and the series finale though,
so it's like bounces out.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, there you go, and then and then so sad
and see Clark getting a fight with somebody, and it's like,
this is might be the best fight of the show.
It's either this or Chloe and Lana in the lead.
I'm not sure, but those are those are the two
best fights on this series. And then you know they
even addressed it, like, you know, it's a plot reason.
The Blue Kryptonut is there so they don't leave, so

(17:17):
both of them don't have power, so you can fight
like a human, which Zo even says like it's very smart.
They plant it out very well, and you get the
Matrix revolutions was still on people's mind. So we got
them in the rain with the trench covet and the
slow motion punched to the face. You know, just so
satisfying to finally get an arc that pays off like
this at the end. Across the board. Now, let's talk

(17:38):
about another season Arbitory. You were talking about Lewis and Clark, like,
what were some of the strongest things about them in
this episode?

Speaker 6 (17:43):
To you?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I thought the scene in the barn was like number
one to me because I think that's something that I
know as a woman, I can relate to, like that
whole balance and like tug of war between love and
career and relationship and career and like you want Clark.

Speaker 7 (17:59):
To just like open up and I like this.

Speaker 8 (18:02):
She also confronts him, but he's like, I don't know
what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
She's like, yeah, you do, like and that's why she's
Lois and that's why we love her, and that's why
she's endgame, Like she is the.

Speaker 7 (18:11):
One who was able like to break down that wall
finally after god.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Knows how many years of chipping away at it. But
that was a really strong scene to me, just because
it felt very personal and relatable, even though it was
in these crazy high circumstances and you know, this fantasy
world that I really liked because I think, at the
end of the day, like I just love Lois and
Clark and I want them to be together.

Speaker 7 (18:35):
So I thought that was even.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Though it was painful, like again, I know that they
get together in the end, so it was like an
interesting bump in the road.

Speaker 7 (18:43):
I also love the moment when.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
She realizes that it's Clark, because as the kiss was happening,
I'm like, just open your eyes, Like why aren't you
just opening your eyes? Like just open your eyes, and
you know, like I'm like I've never kissed how only
I don't know how much of an all consuming experience
it is, but I just open your eyes.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
Like you can all guess.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I haven't said this right before when we were
watching and I was like, oh, you kiss like the
green Arrow, because she kissed the green Arrow. You're all
the superheroes anyway.

Speaker 6 (19:15):
And it's also.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Smart how she like outsmarted Zod, how she was able
or to be like she knew kind of.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Can you tell by the feel at the top of
someone's hand, Yeah, I get the kiss soon, look that much.

Speaker 7 (19:26):
Anyway, It's fine, it's small.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
So Matt's what did you guys think of Lois.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Well as the ambassador from Lewis and Clark to the
new podcast of Superman. You know, it's it's a different
Lois and Clark relationship that I'm used to. But I'm
with Victoria in that, Like I remember watching this the
first time and when she pulled away and went Clark
and getting chills and going like oh yeah, game on,
all right, like here we go, you know, And it
was earned in a way that it was a little

(19:59):
more and it wasn't Lowis and Clark to be honest,
you know, she did her investigating and she found a
diary that no one should own. It makes no sense
of continuity, but you know, like she did the lowest
Lane thing and went and found it. So yeah, no,
a plus from Lowis and Clark.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
This is why you lock up your stuff at home,
all right, because people are going to come over and
go through all your stuff. You know, put a lock
on that chain.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
It also just start hiding things. Your Superman hide better.

Speaker 7 (20:26):
You have an entire fortress in the Arctic. But moving on, Yes, it's.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Cool you can fit a diary up there.

Speaker 6 (20:34):
Yeah, yes, I love the Lowis and Clark stuff. I
was like I could relate a lot to Clark and
being in a relationship with someone like Lewis, and it
was really awesome And I was just like it was
really fun to see the like to see the maturity
in the relationship was really refreshing. I thought for Smallville,

(20:56):
it was like even though we got the whole tell
me the truth, lie that whole thing, which which which
could have been just like a Klana Reducs like it was,
it felt more like it was adult and more mature,
and like the reason he was lying felt more like
we could understand why. Whereas like at times with the
whole lot of thing, at a certain point you were

(21:17):
kind of like, all, come on, Clark, like to stop
being an idiot, Like enough is enough, right, But with this,
it was like you got why he was doing it,
you got why she was doing it, You got the
motivations on both, is what I felt, and that's why
it felt more adult, it felt more mature. And then
just for her to know him through that kiss. So
it was just like such a magical moment.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I thought, as you guys have been saying, it's very earned,
you know, very it's very mature. Real Okay, you were
saying the whole tell me your secrets thing, I was thinking, honest,
she sounds like Lana. But it didn't bother me in
this context because you, like you said, you understand where
they're both coming from at this point, and like Victoria,
you were saying, you know they're gonna get together, but
you're like, oh, just tell each other. It's right there,

(21:57):
you know, just talk. Because we've all one of those
kind of say situations and were like we go into
something and we need to tell somebody something, but they
tell us something. It kind of works into what we
were going to tell them, so now we don't have
to tell them. But then it's awkward because we both
know there's unset stuff going on. I think it is.
And that's exactly what they were going to do, because
he was going to say Clark was going to tell
her that he was leaving. Then she said she was leaving,

(22:17):
so he didn't have to tell her he was leaving,
but she knew he was gonna So anyway, it's very
even though it's his cosmic scale stuff, like, it's relatable
and that's the great thing about what the show does.

Speaker 6 (22:26):
And Tom's acting in that moment too, just when he
turns away, that split little second of pain and then
he turns around and says like, I'm really happy for you,
it's like, oh feels he could totally feel it. It's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Oh yeah, for sure. The other reason why, like I
think this works and why we all like this so much,
is because at this point in the show, I think
everybody is one hundred percent fully invested in this Clark
and lois because I don't think like for everybody it
happened right away, for me it didn't. But like at
this point in the show, I'm fully on the cloest
bandwagon here, and so like I've invested in everything they

(23:01):
want to do, and I'm like, I'm on Lois's side
for part of the argument. I'm on Clark's side for
part of the argument because I understand where both of
them are coming from. Granted, I know where they're you
know where everything's gonna end up, especially now like with
hindsight and also just being a Superman fan, like you
know that they're gonna be together, but you're invested in
how they get there, and you can see both sides
of their argument, and you want both of them just
kind of like just come clean. And it's cool and

(23:23):
it's a good moment, like when after the kiss, like
she knows and Clark kind of knows that she knows,
but I don't think he's like really thinking about it
at that moment. So you know that there's gonna be
some sort of like payoff to that like later, and
so that's really cool.

Speaker 6 (23:35):
Could I just throw something in there too? But with
what you just said in terms of the payoff, I
feel like that's a big reason why those moments were
so exciting to all of us, right, Like it was
like you knew it was coming to this, and it
wasn't just going to drag for seasons and seasons like
oh Lois likes to Oh, but now she doesn't know,

(23:56):
and then there's gonna be the secrets in Lives. Like
it felt like, Okay, we had her scretson Lives moment
and that felt earned. And then right after almost and
we got our moment of but no, she's onto something
and she's gonna know and she's going to piece stuff
together in the next season. There's not going to be
some like axtenuating circumstance or fake death or mind wife

(24:16):
or whatever. It's like, she's this is an arc now,
like we know it's where it's going and it's exciting.
So I felt like that made it much more interesting
than if it had just left off it like the
loft R, Like we got that that payoff at the
end of it.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
That's true. And also another thing to keep in mind
here is that, like you know, Lois and Clark really
haven't been dating that long, oh, if you really think
about it, because they didn't really start until what like
after Bride, because that was when it was kind of
obvious that they like it was mute that their feelings
were mutual mess everything up, I know, right, so like
that they yeah spelling so like so if this would

(24:55):
be completely different if it was like, you know, season
from season four, they've had this like will they won't?
They think they were like frenemies and then they tolerated
each other, and then they became friends, and then all
of a sudden, it's like, Okay, now we kind of
have feelings for each other. And so by the time
you get to season nine, you're like, okay, let's get
these two together. So the pacing for them worked and
ended up working out in the end.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
On the nerd side of things, for the Superman Love did,
like anybody else have the shot of Superman holding that
plane like reflected on The Daily Pliant as their background
for months, because I did like that was the cool
lust thing this show had ever done at that point.
And I know it's just a CG thing, but it
was just like a nice little gift. It was nice.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
If they're going to give us a small cgi Superman
the season nine finale, I can't wait to see what
we get in this series finale. He was bigger here
than it really was. It really was no I loved
and just a superman geek out of it. I know
he did the top, but like that opening thing was perfect,
you know, because you got you got all the characters.
She calls for Jimmy Wilson, and I thought to myself, Oh,
Aaron Ashwards is not on the show this season, so

(25:55):
we're not going to see him because she's like, better
we getting a picture of this and you see the glasses,
and God bless him. They continue the lex is coming
back some way and it's gonna be Michael Rosavam and
he's earning a president. Like they didn't know until the
eleventh hours he was ever gonna come back. But God
bless them, they stayed the course.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
They put that picture on that paper man. That was
a big move.

Speaker 6 (26:15):
That was so epic. I thought when I first saw
when this episode first aired, I thought that was their
way of announcing that they knew and so I realized
that they didn't. But you know what I mean, I
was I thought that was like, oh, they wouldn't do
that unless they got Michael back in the seventh's it's
all good to go for next year.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
And another topic too, and it's it's another actor that
I actually liked in this episode quite a bit. I
really liked Justin Hartley's stuff as Green Arrow. I thought
he'd brought the hero really well, and I thought he
bought like the charisma of like I'm into this girl.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
It's just so easy to buy Justin hartley charisma, Like
oh my god, like.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
That that line where she's like, you know, trying not
to be seen or whatever, and he kisses her out
of nowhere, and then there's like the wearing leathers, so
I'll do what I can do, you know, Like that
is just such a He was a movie star for
a second, and I loved him.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
He's he's gonna be big one day.

Speaker 5 (27:07):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Let me he's got a bright feature ahead of him.

Speaker 7 (27:09):
Let me tell you, well, I know, Zach, you talk
about this all the time.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Is that like the show runners creators must have had
their heart like pulverized by a girl named Chloe.

Speaker 8 (27:20):
I just it's like, for me, it was just so
nice to see like a nice, handsome man be genuinely
attracted and into Chloe because we've wanted that for her.

Speaker 7 (27:31):
For so long. So that was another breath of fresh air.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yes, I'm sure the next season they'll be around and
then love and.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, it's great, and then he gets ripped away by
not Candorians. At the end of the episode. Let me
talk about that for a second. You see Granny Goodness
as all a superman. There's oh my god, they're doing
apocalypse right, and you're like, what's that about. And then
the next scene you get all these like dots that
are moving around. He's they're coming after me. They're not Candoran.
You're like, oh, well, that's Parademons. Duh, because there's not

(28:02):
like seventy suicide squads members.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
No.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
In season ten they reveal that that was just some
kind of suicide squad, right, that was their explanation, And
I'm like, that was some bs they see again, they
didn't know Alex was coming back with the put lex
in there. They thought they might get the budget for Parademons,
I guess, but they didn't do it. They really chickened
out there. It's optimistic because that's like, sir, if you
look at the little graphic, it's like fifteen little red

(28:27):
dots like buzzing around, Like that's not the suicide squad.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
So and isn't there like even a line of like
they're swarming or something like that.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Like you see him, you see him crawling down this
this air duck and it's all being collapsed because people
are banging on the sides of it. Like that's not
like dead Shot or whatever. That's a parademon man. I
thought it was funny that they repurposed the octagonal disc
yet again. They've painted it gold and they cut out
a Superman pentagon at it. It's like, you get it, guys.
It's like from Krypton. It's like, okay, thing, but.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
It's supposed to be a totally different thing, right, This is.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Just like their octagons is like a thing for us.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
It's a motif and they always have the same damn
symbols and all of a sudden and when he holds
it up to like the Justice League, like he does
it like and I've found the Pink Panther.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
It's like, do they have any ideas?

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, it's like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Quick note on that I got my first iPhone, the
iPhone four is my first iPhone around this time. And
you know how you're supposed to call your phone something.
Ill called it the book Are Out because what else
would I do? Because it's based off.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
That's okay. Mine is still called Motherbox, so you're fine.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
But speaking of all the screens and stuff, it was
really cool that scene there. It was really cool to
see all the Justice League members. Like, again, this is
the one episode of Smallvel that pays off the fact
that we've built a universe. Every other episode it seems, oh,
there's a couple of exceptions, but almost every other episode
is like trying to get around the fact they built
a universe. But this one's like, look here, here they
all are. They're on their screens. I guess cal Gallen

(29:57):
was shooting Nightmare on Elm Street or something at that time.
He wouldn't make it, but everybody else was there pretty much.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
They had Kyle Gallaner's like picture like on a screen,
but that screen that he was on was like obscure
the whole time. So if you watch the episode again
you'll see it. It's all the way to like, you know,
our left and it's like always obscure, but like like
a bar or something.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Who is you guys favorite non Superman or Green Arrow,
Justice League Nember on Smallville.

Speaker 7 (30:23):
Oh, Barry Allen, No Bart, He's Bart on this one right.

Speaker 6 (30:28):
Yes, Impulse you don't get to pick his own name.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
I think Hawkman ultimately, though, I do think that we
should discuss Black Canary's hair at some point. I don't know,
but yeah, yeah, and you know, like it's a little
it was always kind of a little lame the way
they played it and like calling him tweety and all that.
But like I remember that first episode, I'm taking it

(30:54):
all back and saying, doctor Fate.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Not sure Fate, doctor Fate? Who who? They used his
voice soil not only in the previously on small Hole,
but then while Clark's having his dream, I guess they
used that for him to tell them later I've seen
my destiny, doctor Fate. I guess that was a dream
the doctor a vision of the future of the doctor
Fate sent him. So now we're getting stock audio from
a scene where we got stock footage of a scene
from season three and season nine. So anyway, it's all

(31:19):
small most, very incestuous. I'm in alignment with you all
the Flash Impulse if you will. Definitely a favorite Hawkman
as well. Both of them are probably the two standouts.
But yeah, Black Canary got like a perm or something before,
like I thought she had like a buzz cut when
she was Black Canary in a fake wig when she
was Dina, but apparently not.

Speaker 6 (31:39):
So now when I see her too. I think, did
any of you guys see that panel where it was
like the Small Little Cast re United or whatever and
Michael rose Mom was talking about how he originally hit
on her when she was on the show and she
said she was married and he was like, I invited
you to Thanksgivving. Yeah, and then she was like, I'm
not buried now and.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Michael was like, see me out a very Michael, what
what was.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
The move with that that makeup mask?

Speaker 6 (32:09):
Though?

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Because it looks like she's going out in West Hollywood,
Like it's just it's such a weird.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
She's out celebrating pride, Like does she take time to
do that every day?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
It's gotta ta Oh there's crime happening. Hold on for
you know, an hour? I mean seriously, Like Oliver Queen's
grease paint, I mean at least it only took like
five minutes. But her I stuff, I mean cool in concept.
Yeah yeah, over.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Oliver Queen got I got you.

Speaker 6 (32:36):
I think like I'd have to go, I'd have to
go with Bart two as like all around favorite, you know.
And it's funny because one of the cheesiest introductions of
a superhero in the show was also one of my
favorites because of what it got to give us with Lex,
which was the Aquaman episode. You know, like like there
is all those cheesy like fist jokes and all that

(32:58):
stuff and bro and all that, and then it's kind
of ridiculous, but like it gave us the first like
really eating Lex without being on x Lex or whatever.
So I love up here on the Shark. Yes, I
was quoting up for a week.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
You can't have this water.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
He didn't show up in this one, but he did
get his own episode and season. Same with Mara.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Know, a big thing about this episode Superman is very
Superman in this We all kind of touched on him.
But I loved how in every situation Clark he had
grown up. He matured, he was gonna, you know, do
the right thing, try to avoid violence as much as possible,
tries to reason with Zod and save Zod. Although with
the whole smavel thing about it, he feels responsible for
his father's death and all that. That's that's played pretty

(33:43):
strong here, but it's coming from a place of Zod
and his shades of gray too, because he actually is like, hey,
how do I get redemption for what I did? He
didn't want to kill his unborn child. So they had
like a real moment there between the two of them
where Clark is trying to save him, just like he
couldn't save Lex, so he's trying to save Zod. And
so that played really strong even up to the end.
He didn't want to use violence, and he was going
to use the book around and he didn't want to leave,

(34:04):
but he did, and that is Superman to the end.
So I think across the board he was Comic book
Superman throughout this whole episode. That and that's another reason
why it's so highly ranked. For me to see him
finally kind of take on that maturity.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
I liked his friends around him trying to help him
out with it too, Like I really I took a
dig at Cassidy earlier, but like seeing her go to
the fortress and just start wailing on Zod for a second.
Obviously it doesn't work out too well, but it's a
cool moment of just like, here's my hail Mary for this, you.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Know, exactly. Yeah, she was even using the Batman like
Kryptonite gauntlet. Yeah, that was a nice little touch Yep.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Doesn't Oliver have a moment where he's like, dude, we'll
help you with this, Like when he's like yes. And
that's also just like a series evolution where for so
long Clark was a lone wolf and he was alone
in this burden. So it was really nice to see
that he had he's what he's cultivated and like that, Yeah,
you've built a universe and now he has back up.

Speaker 7 (35:02):
But then of course he's like no, no, no, no, no,
I have to do a classic. But it was still
it was a great payoff.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
And yeah, that scene, I actually really liked it, Like
the scene confessing about his dad. I think that's like
a shade of depth that we don't often see from him.

Speaker 6 (35:18):
Yeah, I agree, it was. It was really to see
the whole so much of the continuity of the show,
like the evolution of Clark's character, and to see that,
you know, the guilt that he had carried and that
that was something that was really cool about that moment too,
that it's like it's not expressly in the dialogue, but
it's implied through him saying you have to forgive yourself

(35:39):
to Zod, that he has finally forgiven himself. And that's
some things that we haven't gotten from Clark in the
whole show. Like whatever it's been, it's always been like,
it's my fault for a meteor shower, it's my fault
for this that, you know. But to see that he's
forgiven himself, I think allows him to really be Superman.

(36:00):
And so yeah, I love that. And and like you
said about the sacrifice at the end, to try to
avoid violence to the very end, even to that moment
where it's like instead of killing Zod, instead of whatever,
he makes the sacrifice on himself was very very Clark
quintessential Superman. It's such a great like Jesus shot too

(36:20):
is falling down right beautiful.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
The Jesus Superman comparisons continue even in Small Belt. And
that's the thing about Clark sacrificing himself at the end.
It took Zod by surprise because I would never do that,
you know, So he would never That's not in his playbook.
So that's why he was so shocked by Agen And
I just love how they have that moment he's falling
and then Zod realizes like, oh crap, now I'm gone
with these guys, and Clark smiles and that was just
so great. It's such a great.

Speaker 6 (36:44):
Way to story triumph.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
I love season nine. You guys have heard me mention
how much I love it, and this is my favorite
episode and it was great to have the chance to
revisit it. So thank you listeners for voting for this one.
So roka. Any final thoughts then on Salvation that anything
we didn't mention that you to touch on before you
wrap it up.

Speaker 6 (37:01):
Oh, I just wanted to mention too. From a film
point of view, like from the like the cinematography and
the episode two, just like the way there is such
an energy to the way that the camera moved, the
lighting that it was, like you mentioned with the fight scene,
to the choreography and just the look of that the
aesthetic with the rain pouring down. Everything about it is.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
The use of slow mo, like the proper use of
slow motion. That didn't overdo it.

Speaker 6 (37:25):
But it was just too much. It was just like
it was, Yeah, I just I really felt like the
whole aesthetic of the episode just went above and beyond
and it really felt like almost as close as we
would get to Smallville on the big screen, if that
makes sense, Like it just really felt very cinematic, and

(37:46):
Greg Beeman directed this episode so direct that totally makes sense. So, Victoria,
any final thoughts on everything, anything we didn't touch on.
You wanted to mention it.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Was a revelation for me, and I think it's why
I enjoyed the episode. It's like the closest and the
best executed like version of Superman will get on this show,
and just the like the level of maturity is so enjoyable,
and I think it's like a It's probably one of
Smallble's tightest finales. So yeah, it was nice to revisit

(38:16):
because a lot of the later stuff in Smallville is
not stuff that I often revisit.

Speaker 7 (38:20):
Or if I revisit, I'm like watching a.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Compilation of like the lowest and Clark moments from season nine.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, a point there than Matt. I think this will
probably dovetail in your final thoughts. I wanted to mention this,
like we never get the classic you know, Clark Superman
Lewis triangle in smavel the way we do in Lewis
and Clark, for example. True, but this episode shows how
that can still work with like the blur and Clark
and Lowis and that's the thing from most of this season,
And I like, and this is the only way this

(38:47):
could happen, Like how Zod kind of impersonated him for a
little bit. Only in this setup could that happen in
a kind of And I bought it, you know, I
mean it was pretty I mean it wasn't long. She
only had a couple of conversations with them. She figured
it out. But there are different ways to do the
whole Clark and Lois thing with not necessarily the way
we have been in eighty years in the comics. Now,
when they reboot Superman again, which is inevitable, it would

(39:09):
be interesting to see because we haven't seen that since
the Christ to Reeve movies, like the classic Lois and
Clark and Superman thing. I know, people think, oh, it's
the pair of glass is. Just go with it. He's
an alien, all right, just go go with it for
like two movies and the third movie she can find
out a secret. But anyway, this is just something watching
this kind of reminded me how like they found a
way even though they we never got Superman and Lois

(39:31):
and the glasses and Clark and that identity on the show.
They found a way to still that triangle and that
was this season.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, and just like final thoughts and stuff we haven't
said yet, Like as a Superman fan, Martha Kent providing
the suit is like such a such an important part
of it, and it's a little weird how it happens here,
Like just as as the nerd that I am, Like,
I would love to see her like talking to somebody
in Washington, DC, Like, yeah, no briefs on the outside,

(40:00):
that's what I said, you know, but there's still so
much that was such a cool moment. I wish that
she had been in the episode. I wish that they
had been able to kind of play it up a
little bit more. But just the idea that they understood
that that is a part of the mythology that we're
not gonna tweak too much, you know, like Martha gives
them the suit as a Superman nerd, that was that

(40:21):
was important to me.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
The thing with Martha, right, she leaves a note and
Perry White gives Lois tickets. So they're finding ways to
incorporate these characters who can't be in the episode. Again
expand the world. Yeah, yeah, the ol'dooles, the keys well Anthony.
Final thoughts, What.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Makes this episode work is that it gives us what
we want. You know, Lois finds out, We get a
fight between Clark and the villain. We get actual Superman
stuff going on in the Superman episode. We have the
Justice League present, we have the hints of apocalypse and
Darkseide and everything that comes with that. Chloe has finally
has like a superhero suitor. Like it's everything that we've

(41:00):
wanted in this show, and and everything is satisfying. Clark
makes the sacrifice play, and it's and and and goes
for the non violent solution the entire episode like it's everything.
Everything just works. And I think that's why it's in
Heald in such high regard, and I think that's why
the fans have voted in part of this top ten.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
When Clark saves Lois, Zo had some many great lines.
He's like, I'm like the blow, I don't care if
you live or die, and he throws her across the
back lot of CW backlot there he comes in and
before he saves her, he punches Odd right, and that
shot just keeps going and he goes to say Lois
and slow motion you see Zodd just keep drifting off
in the background. The only thing he could have made
it better if there was like a Coca Cola sign

(41:40):
that he crashed into and it blow up like Superman two.
That's the that's the vibe I got from that moment,
you know, the Superman two where he throws Odd into
the sign. But that was so great. There's little moments
like it didn't have to do that, but just to
see that continue on in the background. If there was
ever a word for this episode epic, an epic hour
of Smallville. Yeah, and I'm really glad that that everybody
loves it as much as me, so well, not as

(42:01):
much as me, but you know, everybody loves it. So
good conversation, guys, that was funy.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Small Vale season nine on Blu ray and DVD. Between
two worlds, You sent me here to fulfill destiny, Between
two lives t Boos and fate loss one hero must
decide his destiny.

Speaker 7 (42:23):
You have no idea which are up against.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
This Now Season nine sores with amazing extras that take.

Speaker 8 (42:28):
You into the heart of the Justice Society of America.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
Smallville season nine on Blu ray and DVD September seventh.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
All Right, I hope I all enjoyed our discussion on Salvation.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Again.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
My favorite episode remains my favorite episode. I know it
is somewhat sacrilegious to say my favorite episode of Smallville
features neither Luther, Lex or Lionel because they are traditionally
the strongest parts of the show. But Arc is more
Superman here than ever, and I think this is a
real payoff of the character we were watching for nine years,

(43:06):
maybe even more so than the payoff of the character
we were watching for ten years that we got in
the series finale seeing the Justice League. I mean, you
hear us talk about it. I could talk about this
episode so many times. This is an episode I don't
like the finale that I'm not talked out about. This
one I still have excitement for and love for. And
I am so happy that it made the top ten list

(43:27):
here even though it wasn't on everybody's top ten lists.
And we have some fun poked it some of the
things that are you know, fun pokable about, as we
do here on the podcast. It was a great discussion
and as I have been keeping track of the needle drops,
the pop music. Right on these top ten episodes, we
have been four for four so far, but the streak

(43:49):
has been broken. And another strike against me for having
this as my favorite episode of the show with no
pop music. Pop music is so integral part of the
DNA of the show, what made it so popular, what
made us connect to it so much, made us love
it so much speaking to ourselves at that time, especially
if you grew up watching the show on the air, right,
that was the sound trick of our lives, right, we

(44:09):
were the target audience for the music for the night,
small that were brought to you buy and there's none
of that here now. Later in the seasons, right, the
budgets got lower, Therefore the music budgets got lower, so
we got less mainstream, big time songs. Right, that was
a factor as well. They definitely in an earlier season.
I think they definitely would have put a song in
here somewhere. I don't know what scene, maybe the Clark

(44:30):
and Lowess loft scene, maybe at the end of it,
but there's none here, So wow, Like what an outliner. Right,
my favorite episode of the show, the number six episode
in the top ten as ordered by you the listeners,
has no pop music, not even a loophole like we
used with the Superman the Movie soundtrack for the finale.
So there you go, guys, that's gonna be missing on
your Always onto Smallville Smallville Top ten episodes playlist. The

(44:55):
number six slot will be empty because there's none of
that here. But you know, if you just want to
plug in remies, he will save me. I guess you
can do that, and that'll that'll thank erin for you.
But again, I hope you all enjoyed our conversation. Stay
tuned next week to find out which episode is the
number five episode of Smallville, as voted by you, the listeners.
But until then, Always hold on To Smallville. Always hold

(45:39):
On To Smallville is part of the Always Hold on
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Anthony Deciato, Crystal Cross, Karin Kumar, and Lorenzo Valdez. Thank
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(47:02):
us on Twitter at always Malville with one S. You
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