Top 10 Episodes: #9 Pilot

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Tom Welling.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I played Clark Kent on Smallville and you are listening
to Always hold on to Smallville.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Welcome to Always hold On to Smallville. In this podcast,
we've talked about each and every episode of the Young
Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
twenty eleven on the W and the c W. I'm
your host, Zach Moore, and we're back with another Top
ten episodes. That's right, the top ten episodes of Smallville,
as voted by you, the listeners, and this time the

(01:13):
number nine entry Pilot. That's right, the creatively named pilot
episode of Smallville. Pilot. Now, to be fair to Smallville,
a lot of TV shows name their first episode pilot.
A lot of them don't, though, and a lot of
them have more creative titles. But here we are, Pilot
is the number nine entry in the top ten episodes. Now,

(01:37):
it's a really good pilot. It's a really good episode. Now,
if you ask Michael Rosenbob who does Talkville, the Tom Welling,
of course, the pilot has three roses. Nothing beats the pilot.
It's the ultimate score, right, and he would compare almost
every episode to the pilot. And how that one's unsurpassable.
And I think, you know, if you have a TV

(01:59):
show that's two episodes and you say nothing's as good
as the first one, that's just all downhill, and I
just I don't look at it that way. I think
I think that's more applicable to movie franchises than TV shows, honestly. Now, obviously,
there's so much time and effort and budget and that
goes into a pilot episode of a TV show that

(02:19):
other episodes don't get. They have months of preparation, they
have extra time to film, and usually extra locations. There's
more scope. It's it's more epic and grand and scale
because it's establishing the universe of the story and the show.
So there's a reason pilots have a lot more grandeur
than a lot of other quote unquote run on the

(02:40):
middle episodes. Right. But I think there are a lot
of episodes that are better than the pilot of Smallville.
I think I think there are probably at least ten
episodes better than the pilot episode of small vill But
it's a good pilot, right, So, and I also think
I think we take the pilot for granted, So let's
not take the Smallville Pilot for granted this soul a series.

(03:01):
It ended up launching a decade long show that we love.
None of us would be here. I wouldn't be talking
about it, and you wouldn't be listening to me talk
about it if the Small Little Pilot was not successful.
It was successful in selling the show. It was successful
when it came out. The ratings were amazing, It launched
obviously a very successful series for many seasons. You'll hear

(03:23):
us talk about it. But I feel like Metamorphosis is
just as much a part of the pilot as Smallville is.
That's how I came to it, two episodes edited together
into one. So when I think of the pilot, I
think of the pilot and Metamorphosis. So that's where I'm
coming at it from. But hey, let's look back on
what we gave the pilot on the letter grade scale

(03:46):
and the podcast proper. Looking back at our coverage, me
and Lance Laster were who talked about pilot, and I
gave the pilot a B plus and Lance gave the
pilot a B. Now, I I think in retrospect those
are low. Those are low scores for the pilot, But
I think it goes to that same thinking. We didn't

(04:07):
want to come out of the gate when we started
the podcast saying pilot A plus A even, because then
I mean, there's nowhere to go but down from there.
So I think, you know, if I had to do
it over again, looking back, I would give the pilot,
you know it an A or an A minus in there.
I gave the show too much room to grow, and
Lance gave it to being and we were coming at

(04:28):
it from the same mindset, I think. So that's why
we gave it the scores we did. Then let's hear
us talk about it now. I'm again joined by Lance
Laster from all Ways Sold On to Arrow, Victoria Malay,
Matt Trux from Lewis and Clark, the New podcast of Superman,
and many of the other podcasts here on the Always
hold On to Network and Patreon, and Matthew Roca. So,

(04:50):
without further ado, let's discuss the number nine episode of
Smallville Pilot.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Do you believe a man can fly? People can't fly?
Lex I did October sixteenth on the WB's New Tuesday.
It's the day of the meteor shower. This is how
you came into our world, sir.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
When do you try to tell me that.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
A small town on the edge of innocence.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
That's me, Clerk. I mean used to people judging me
before they get to know me.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
I don't want anything to stand in the way of
our friendships.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Sometimes people can surprise you.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
We have a future, Clerk, a young man on the
threshold with Estinay.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
We wanted to protect you and protect me from what.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
Michael Rosenbaum, Kristen Crook, and Tom Wallie. We didn't find you, Clerk,
you found us. A w B presents a small bill.
Good for.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
You?

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Did you did? On October sixteenth.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
He has quite an extraordinary order, mister Kenneth.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
An unexpected friendship begin thanks to you, I have a
second chance, a friendship destined to be forsaken.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Do you believe a man can fly? People can't fly?

Speaker 4 (06:22):
Lex the great story, that's the beginning the series from
Mere Smallville October sixteenth, on the WB's New Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
The pilot of Smallville. So pilot was not on my
top ten list, what about you lands?

Speaker 1 (06:39):
It was number three on mine right on.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I can tell you right now it wasn't on my list,
and that was purely in oversight.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
So TRUEX not on your list was not.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
On my list officially not on my list.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Rokay, what about you?

Speaker 5 (06:53):
It was on my list?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, YouTube for two man, I know, yeah, all.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Right, Victoria, what about you?

Speaker 6 (07:01):
It's so funny because Pilot wasn't one on my list,
but Metamorphosis was my number one.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Nice should I rewatch Metamorphosis? Like I don't remember liking
that episode.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
But you guys, because like he has an actual fight
at the end, he knows the freak of the week,
you know, like it's a really good episode, Matt.

Speaker 6 (07:21):
The thing is like, before I loved Smallville, I loved
Spider Man, and so like I liked Metamorphosis because there
was like the closest they got to.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right Spider Man when they did right bug Boy.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
I didn't watch it when it first air, becau who
knew about Smallville?

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I sure did.

Speaker 7 (07:42):
I saw an ad for it in a comic book,
and then I was just like, ooh, this looks awesome,
and so like I made a whole night of it
and everything. I like, like we ordered pizza and like
all this other stuff because it's like a school night ride,
but like we made it a special occasion.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
And I saw the first episode and I was hooked.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Lance and I we're really friends then, So I was
not invited to this pizza party. Nor was I aware,
Nor was I aware that small Vel was a TV show.
As you all have heard me say many times, I
picked it up and reruns like halfway through the first
season and carried down on from there. But you know,
we can just kind of go around and talk about
our first impressions of the pilot. Lance had his Victoria, Well,

(08:20):
what's up with your first taste of the Smallville pilot.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
It's actually really funny because I just had like a
very intense flashback of like how I first discovered the show.
I started watching when the fourth season aired, and I
didn't start like aired on the WB and I didn't,
And then I was like doing this weird simultaneous catch
up via ABC Family back when it was ABC Family,

(08:45):
when they just put Smallville intosyndication on that channel.

Speaker 8 (08:48):
That's why I started watching it.

Speaker 6 (08:50):
And I remember there was a marathon. They were doing
a marathon because they were introducing the show.

Speaker 8 (08:57):
To the channel.

Speaker 6 (08:59):
And I watched the pilot and metamorphosis back to back.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
As you should, as you should never watch the pilot
with that metamorphosis, is my opinion.

Speaker 6 (09:06):
I can't remember if I'd already seen the beginning the
first episode of like if I'd seen Crusade already, if
I'd seen the beginning episode of season four. I can't
quite recall, but I just remember. It was a small
Ville marathon. It was the days before DVR, and all
I wanted to do was watch Smallville. But my mother
was like, we need to go shopping to buy you

(09:28):
a nice outfit for your father's charity golf outing that
he puts on every year, like.

Speaker 8 (09:35):
To like help children with AIDS.

Speaker 6 (09:37):
And I was like, and I literally was dragged. One
of the masters for New Jersey he might know this reference.
I had like a six hour meltdown at the Freehold
mall that day. Like I was a child.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
I forgot how close we are.

Speaker 9 (09:53):
I was so like I was like the most well
behaved child, but this was a real low point for me.
I was just like having a meltdown in the mall,
like at an age that was two.

Speaker 8 (10:04):
I was twelve. I was too old to have a
meltdown like that.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, I was a little twelve was a little
old for that, Victoria.

Speaker 6 (10:11):
It didn't stop me and I Yeah, that's so funny.

Speaker 9 (10:17):
Oh and like my sister, Like my sister was like
being an angel and she like was asked by like
the North Strong sales department to be in like a
child fashioned show.

Speaker 6 (10:27):
And I'm just like crying in a corner, like I'm
not watching small films.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Well there, see that's a hard story to stop there.
But truth, what's your story with the pilot?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I vividly remember I was watching. I was like, yeah,
eleven or twelve, watching reruns of og Sabrina on the W.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
John Hart, my my first child, crushed from cushen.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Of Lang myself. But no, there was a i'm gonna
say ten second teaser commercial on the WB and it
was just the first couple shots of the Kryptonite and
the ship and the Meteors all gone to Earth and
all it said was Smallville. And like Lois and Clark's podcast, right,
like small like if it didn't happen to Terry Hatcher

(11:15):
and Dean Kine, it didn't happen to Superman as far
as I was concerned at like ten or eleven, But
I knew the name Smallville that you knew that you knew,
yeah exactly, So that just like I remember I didn't
stay up to watch it because I was young, But
the next day after school, I sat and I watched
them as just blown away. But it was kind of
the first time I'd seen a new take on Superman.

(11:37):
I'd grown up with a bunch of different Batman's, but
never never seen it. Like I said, if it was
Dank and Terry Hatcher, if it wasn't them, it didn't
happen till this show, but just just blew me away.
I still I watched it today. It's it's one of
the best pilots I've ever seen in my life. I
watch it. I mean, it's it's evergreen. It's just the
coolest thing.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
All right, Roco, what about you? Where did you first
see pilot?

Speaker 5 (12:00):
So I've shared this before on your podcast in regards
to the show. Actually, my first experience with Smallville was
not the pilot. My thing was like, my mom was
watching the show before I was, and she had like
this little TV, you know, those little mini TVs like that,
a little small thing in the kitchen, and she would
like make dinner and stuff, and just like you guys,

(12:22):
I was, you know, like twelve, I think maybe like
thirteen or fourteen, probably thirteen or fourteen.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
But yeah, so it was.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
Like you would be watching the show and I knew nothing,
absolutely nothing, not like you guys. I knew zero about Superman. Nothing,
And I'll never forget. My mom kept saying, oh, you
got to watch the show. You remind me of this
character Clark. And she also knew nothing Lex Luthor. Yes, exactly,
the Lex Luthor story. Yes, so I didn't know Lex

(12:50):
Luthor was a bad guy. That's how little I knew
about about Superman. Not as kind of awesome nothing. Yeah,
it was really it was actually very awesome because I
was like discovering it as the characters were right and
but but I'll never forget like as we started watching
the show, you know, then my dad was watching with
us and he's like, oh, why are Clark Kenton Lex
Luthor hanging out? And we're like, duh, they're friends. Like

(13:12):
we're like, and.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
He's like, uh, the.

Speaker 5 (13:15):
Bad guy and we're like, no, Dad, you're confused, that's Lionel.
You're He's like, there's no Lionel. What are you talking about?
And we're and you know, so that's how little we
knew about it. Yeah, it was one of those things
where the pilot then came along as one of those
you know, like as a rerun later on in the series,
because I think like the first one that got me
hooked was cool because I was like obsessed with a

(13:37):
cheerleader like Wana when I was that age and I
and I was like, oh, like I'm I'm Clark and
she's Lana and she likes this job assphole and bla.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
So it was like, okay, cool, like I'm hooked on
the show.

Speaker 5 (13:49):
And then as I started watching, then they had the
pilot and and that was then like like it was
like a rerun and they did that with metamorphosis like
you guys said, and they kind of linked them together.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
And I remember.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
Watching it and just being like blown away by like oh, okay,
so these are all these missing elements to me as
not knowing anything, like oh, this is how the Kryptonite works,
this is how this works, and all of those elements.
And then I just recently rewatched it a week ago.
I mean, my mom had a trip down memory Lane
and we were pre watching and it was one of

(14:21):
those things where I just like in retrospect realized like, wow,
this is a perfect pilot, like It's one thing to
love it as a kid as you're growing up, but
then to watch it as an adult and for me
as a filmmaker, Jo, it's just like this is a
perfect pilot, like it's got It has all the elements
to introduce every single character, the themes, and how it
carries over ten years later.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
It's just epic.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
It really is a really good pilot.

Speaker 7 (14:46):
I was very impressed revisiting it, like how good it was, because, like,
you know, we're in this age of television now where
we're blessed with so many good shows out there. We
have so many options and there's a lot the quality
has risen as well, like from when we were younger,
and so looking back to see, like, you know, this
shared show that we all love, the pilot who pilot
still stands as a really really good one, and it's

(15:09):
and it's actually pretty exceptional.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Metamorphosis was the first one I saw on WB and
then I went I think it was like LimeWire, share
Bear or something like that, because Kazah, I don't know,
it's one of these sides. So I went back and
I found these these episodes I missed, like the first
half of season one. Every now and then I'd get
an episode and I download it, and of course I

(15:33):
like start the download before I went to school and
it was done by the time I got home. But
the pilot metamorphoses are always together. So so it's weird because
I I didn't see the polit till about near midway
to the end of season one. I was like, oh, okay,
well that all makes sense now. They came out on
like I think it was the Canadian DVD came out
with the pilot metamorphsis were together, and then if you downloaded,
sometimes that would be what people ripped, and that's what

(15:54):
I downloaded and watch, and then sometimes they reair them together.
They kind of that seems like they pan up to
the sky and they panned down to outside a lot
of souse and orctually. Well, but but to me, I mean,
you guys say this is the perfect pilot, Like I
like it, it's fine, but I think I feel like
it's incomplete without the metamorphosis have because it pays awful
lot of things because like, if you think about the pilot,
you just kind of leave the whole Whitney thing unresolved.

(16:15):
And Lex Luther has this scryptonite, but you never follow
up on that, and him and Lata never kind of
have a scene after earlier. So even though it was
filmed like several months later, it really does complete it.
And to me, like I like I said, I always
have to watch them together.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
For sure.

Speaker 7 (16:28):
It's definitely a set music terminology here. This is definitely
movement too, uh Like, the piece is not complete without it.
So when I refer to the pilot, I'm talking about
the pilot and metamorphosis because to me, that just it
just makes sense.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
So let's just go around, Victoria. What what are some strong
things in the pilot you want to talk about here?

Speaker 6 (16:46):
I was honestly astounded by how great the effects were
and how beautifully it was shot. I think when I
was younger, I didn't recognize and I know I'd probably
say this every time podcast with you, Zach, like the
episode was beautifully shot, But there's the production vow.

Speaker 8 (17:05):
I especially for a pilot.

Speaker 6 (17:07):
I was really astounded by the effects budget and like
the production value of a pilot in the early two thousands.
I was really astounded by that. I think the storytelling
is amazing, and I also thought there were some what
I really loved. And again, I'm not a DC comics
person as much.

Speaker 8 (17:24):
I'm definitely a Marvel more of a Marvel girl.

Speaker 6 (17:27):
But I thought it and so maybe we see this
in the in the comics, but I thought it was
so genius. Tying the way Lex loses his hair to
the meteor shower, I thought that was genius. And then
I also and I know it's like kind of hokey.

Speaker 8 (17:43):
But I get it.

Speaker 6 (17:45):
Making Lana kryptonite and the necklace I also thought.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Was see, it's just weakness, you get it everyone.

Speaker 6 (17:53):
But I know, I know it's kind of hokey, but
at the same time, I just love it.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Well, yeah, because it works, It really works, really works.

Speaker 6 (18:00):
I also liked that Clark like was kind of sassy
in this. He's like, yeah, He's like, I just want
to be a normal person, Like I hate having to
make all these sacrifices.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Well, I mean he's like that most of the show.
To be fair, it.

Speaker 6 (18:13):
Just seems like there was more of a push pull here,
which made him unrelatable, which I think helped us all
get hugged on the show.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
He was he did have like a sense of humor.
He was less MOPy, you know, even though he was
moping in a graveyard when Lana showed up.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
He was cute as hell with Lana in the graveyard.
He's doing to like what's that, mister Lang? Like it's hokey,
but it's also like it's really sweet, like it's really
can't I was impressed. I was impressed by Tom's performances
for watching it today and kind of impressed that, like
I hadn't really noticed it before, but like he's trying

(18:47):
where he can. You can tell that he's stiff. He's
very stiff in some areas, but I mean, like overall,
he's good here, Like I remember why we all kind
of fell for him as Superman.

Speaker 5 (18:57):
You know, Tom's performed Rewatching it too is one of
those things like you know, every time you rewatch, when
you're as biased and love it as much as we do,
you're like, is it really you know, is it really
as strong or as great? And you're rewatching like yeah,
Like his his performance was just pure Superman and just

(19:19):
really beautifully like understated, if that makes sense. Like it
was very it was very subtle, but which he does
really well, but it was very human and it just
you can see why he drew us all in to
his character because it just felt very real the way
that he performed it, and like Victoria mentioned.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
The effects.

Speaker 5 (19:37):
Just rewatching it the other day, I was like, wow,
this was two thousand and one, and rewatching the opening
meteor sequence there, I was like, these are feature film effects,
Like you know, they're they're by today's standards. I mean,
there's little things here and there that would be you know,
better or whatever, but by today's standards, it's still like
these are feature film effects. It's and they were doing
this in two thousand and one on a TV show

(19:59):
for the W which is like.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, no, no offense to Matt, but you look at
Lowis and Clark special effects and they come. They come
a long way in just a few years. Right, he's done,
he's done. You can't see your listeners. He just throw
threw his headsets off.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
No, I agree with what you're saying to dude.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
That that one I don't know what episode it is, Matt,
but the one where Lex is shooting skeet with Nigel,
that's probably the worst special effect I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
And the CGI talking about, yeah, I do know what
you're talking about. Off his balcony of Lex Tower, yeah,
it's terrible. I will say, just to what Matt was saying.
Tom is very good in the scene in the show.
He's pretty subtle throughout until he has to fall in
front of Wana. I don't know if that was him
or that was a stunt double just doing that like

(20:51):
and one, two, three, four five and he just like plants,
but like it was a really good physical fall. It's
still very funny.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
I was more distracted the fact he had a skateboard.
What did you guys think about the skateboard?

Speaker 2 (21:01):
But is Marty McFly he had his arm pad shows
when he when Whitney throws him on the ground. Yeah,
he like braces his arm a little bit of No.

Speaker 6 (21:12):
But I tend to get very distracted by other features
of Tom.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Welling, so.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Did Victoria.

Speaker 5 (21:18):
Of course, I know this is something we all laugh at,
but I know it wasn't planned at the time. But
it's still kind of fun to look at, Like it's
just interesting like that. The opening scene includes Lionel Luther
looking at a paper of Oliver Queen's parents murdered, right
of course, and of course we all make fun of Veritas,

(21:38):
as we should, but it's still kind of fun.

Speaker 6 (21:40):
Like.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
How dare you bring up that word?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Right? Yeah, he's admiring his handywork because he just had
Robert Queen. Is his name Robert and smaller? I don't
know Robert Queen. I guess John g Lover, right, And
he's in this and then they quickly bring him back
for Hothead and then it goes on from there and
jitters and stuff. They could have been a doad where
they never bring like his dad in That just shows
you a little slice Alexis childhood where his dad was
kind of like, get your rock together, son, You're not

(22:05):
gonna ge anywhere in life without opening your eyes. But
then he becomes an ingegble part of the show.

Speaker 6 (22:08):
Which was so funny to watch his hands. He's in
the first scene and he plays a dad.

Speaker 8 (22:14):
I'm like, I know him, I know him.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Does he not have the first line of the movie?

Speaker 8 (22:20):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think he might.

Speaker 5 (22:22):
Have you ever have you ever seen this is just
so off topic, but have you ever seen fifty two
pickup with John Glover?

Speaker 2 (22:30):
No?

Speaker 5 (22:31):
So weird, like seventies thriller and he's like a sleazy
like Hillary rapist and it's great, it's great, you'll love it.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
I think casting. I mean this this being the first episode, right,
I mean casting the older characters. John Shiner is Jonathan
Kent and an Ed O'Toole is Martha Kent, who was
a recast from Scythia Ettinger as the original Martha kN
I don't know if you guys see see when I
first down the pilot, like there's I'm like, what is
his alternate pilot? I'm like, who, why are these Why
is this a different Martha King? What is this? Thanks

(23:03):
Kaza or whatever. But they recast her with anto tool
after the in between the pilot and metamorphosis, and they
reshot the scene, so there's an alternate there's like just
like because Martha is that's some saying. Martha doesn't have
a lot of scenes in this one, so it was
really easy to reshoot.

Speaker 7 (23:18):
Speaking of like the you know, the Martha casting, like
it was a good thing to see a netto tool
in there. It's a legacy casting because like when I
first saw it, I was just like, hey, it's Lana
from from Superman three. And I was like, this is amazing.
The show called Novel has Lana from the Superman movies.
I was like, this is amazing. This is the best
show ever about casting though, let's kind of talk about
that for a second. Lana is traditionally like a white,

(23:40):
redheaded girl, and so when you see Christian Kirk, who's like,
you know, Asian American descent, this is like, oh wow,
this is pretty progressive for two thousand and one, considering
all other shows on the network at the time were
We're not like that at all.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
And also and the fact that Pete, you know, like his.

Speaker 7 (23:55):
Best friend, who's also traditionally not a black person, was
a black person of this it's like, oh, oh good, good, Like,
you know, points to you guys for like making the
world look like the world instead of just not like
it is.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
And they're gonna get married eventually here, so.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
That's yeah, well actually that's as far as they go.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, you know, Chloe was originally gonna be African American
and I quote unquote ethnic character according to the casting calls,
but they like Alison Max Allison Max performance so much
that they cast her and they're like, well, now we
got to make Pete, you know, not white. So and
I've said this, they just didn't know what to do
with Pete after they've made him black. If he had
been a white guy, he would have been around at

(24:31):
least seven years.

Speaker 7 (24:32):
Right, Yeah, well maybe because Whitney was around for only
one year.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, but he was the obstacle boyfriend, the template that
they use in the Flash and an Arrow, and they
continue to improve upon it and refine it because he's
just the one like Whitney here, right, He's just a
one dimensional character, and he pretty much is for most
of Season one, honestly, until like his dag gets sick
near the end of the season and they try to
get him some manity and they're and actually he's a
really good arc if you just look at like the

(24:56):
season one ally, at the end of season one, like
him and Clark like we've had a weird year kind
of shake hands and you know that's cool. Eric Johnson,
he kind of knew what he was in for. I know,
when the Companion, He's like, yeah, I kind of figured
that I was the boyfriend of the loving tests of
the main character, so I wasn't gonna be around very long.
But I think for what he has, what they give
him to do, he does well. And you know, and
we no one has mentioned this yet. I need to

(25:16):
mention it. Michael Rosebaum people Rose, the guy from Zoe Duncan,
Jack and Jane is like that guy.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah. The thing about Rosamond though, it's like he just
he's there's so much going on, you know, under the surface,
from the minute he gets out of his porch. Thanks Dad,
you're like this guy, man, he's something else. And the
whole episode like trying to be friends with Clark, and
it makes sense because he's this kind of outcast guy
and it is kind of creepy, how like this twenty
two year old billionaire wants to like be BFFs with

(25:45):
a fifteen year old a high school student. But you know,
I don't know. He did save his life, So.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
Like, rewatching it, I realized how many of his lines
could be interpreted as creepy when you like, when you
know who Lex Luthor is, but me, like I said,
me not knowing who he was, it's like, oh, cool,
like this guy's his best friend. But but for you
guys like watching it when you first saw it was Lex,
I mean you knew who he was going to be,
But like in the pilot, did you feel like, oh,

(26:10):
this guy is manipulating Clerk and he's a bad guy already,
or did you think or did you know where they
were going with it with him being a good guy
and turning evil as the show progressed, like what did
how did you all come to it?

Speaker 1 (26:21):
And so I was intrigued by it.

Speaker 7 (26:23):
Initially I was just like, well, he's obviously the villain,
but like when you see the episode, I was like, Oh,
they're going to set up a friendship here, and then
once you kind of realize that that's what they're going for,
it's like, oh, we're going to see the two of
them like kind of move apart, and we're going to
see how they become enemy.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
So I was like, oh, that's pretty neat. I don't
know how it's going to end.

Speaker 7 (26:39):
If it was to me thinking about it back then,
I was like, I don't know how this is gonna end,
but it's going to be an interesting journey, to say
the least. So I kind of saw what they were
doing from the jump.

Speaker 6 (26:47):
I think when I first started watching, you know, back
in the day, I knew that Lex Luthor was a villain,
but I didn't know enough to be like, oh, you know,
I just kind of went with it and then rewatching
it two nights ago, So I think Honestly, the young
actor who plays Lex does such a good job that,
even with everything that I know now, and I obviously

(27:09):
I am much more well acquainted with the premise of
the show, I just kind of took everything at face
value and it was like just kind of gave him
that blank slate to operate from.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
The ultimate tool for the master thief. Can I cannot
not say that? Sorry? So you know, Victoria, you mentioned
him losing his hair, and I think that was a
real genie. There's a lot of genius decisions wise here
because like the first of all, the meteor shower coming
with the spaceship genius because one it covers up the spaceship,

(27:41):
which is the two thousand and one, we have satellites,
and then it creates a weakness for Clark, so an obstacle,
and then it creates these mutants that exist in.

Speaker 8 (27:50):
Smavel episodic structure.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, there he goes.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
It also throws that guilt.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
In, right, Yeah, because he's responsible for everything, as I
mean indirectly, but if he hadn't out come here, and
that's the thing that ties into Lawna too, right, because
he feels so guilty about That's why when he first
sees the wall, weird. It shakes him because he's like,
oh man, this is because of where I came from
and what came with me, and and it also ties
the origin of at this point in the show, the
three main characters. So you have Clark, Lex and Lana.

(28:19):
Clark comes in the meteor shower. Lex is forever changed
by it, and so is Lana because her parents get killed,
and that defines your character for pretty much the rest
of the show on and off.

Speaker 7 (28:29):
What makes this pilot so great is that, like, yeah,
you know, one of my favorite comic writers, Kyle Higgins,
he says, every story has a promise and a premise.
With Smallville, you see you know the promise of the
show already after this episode is finished. You see the
promise in the premise of the show, like automatically where
Clark is going, you see where Lex is going, how
their paths are going to converge. You see the same

(28:49):
thing with Lana. You see how Clark brings things like
his coming into the world brings trouble also at the
same time that he is responsible for and directly and indirectly,
and all this sets up the tryles for Superman that's
why this, to me works and something like Gotham does not.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
But we can get into that a different day at
a different time.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
There's not enough time. I also think, like visually the pilot,
we talked a little bit about the cinematography and stuff,
but like just I mean watching that damn stunt again
when the Porsche goes over the pot that's the man
just fly. Nothing about that isn't convincing or kind of
horrifying to watch. And then like even just like the

(29:29):
little cues, the red capes on him from the EMTs
and at the end they fade up to the stars
and there's like little red and green stars up there
like other little red suns, and Krypton's out there somewhere,
you know. Like just they obviously took the time. It's
a pilot. Of course they're going to take a little
bit extra time. But it's impressive the production failures they got.

(29:49):
Just like we've been saying effects, but again, like physical
they screw a guy in a car off a bridge
and it looks amazing.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
That is the key. They hadn't quite gone into the
well let's just use a CGI car, are yeah, or
like let's just let's just add some cgi fire to
the kin farm when it gets hit by a meteorite
or something like no no, no, like like stuff gets destroyed,
like the whole the truck getting flipped over, like all
these physical tangible thing Ye did you catch how these

(30:16):
spaceship they hadn't designed the space ship yet. It's like
the artichoke looking spaceship.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I hate it so much.

Speaker 6 (30:20):
I also have a note, I think because it's been
a long time, but I wrote chocolate bar key.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Chocolate bar key.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yes, it does look like a chocolate bark.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Does that prop? That prop becomes the heart of the ship? Right?
That never comes.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Also, they upgrade that as well, bring it back everyone's
favorite octagon, right well yeah, well no, no, no, no, no, no,
that's not even related. They and I think that's in
the skin Walkers. They bring that back. Yeah, I'm like,
oh that that looks like much like the small level
high school letter jackets up get upgraded. There's just an
aspect they made it too super manny. They had like

(30:57):
a shield behind it and stuff. They're like, all right,
let's tone that back a little bit. The barn gets
fleshed out, the torch gets fleshed out of the wall of weird,
Like look like they're in the library in the pilot.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
But they were not. They were totally in that school.

Speaker 5 (31:09):
The mansion, it's so different.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, the mansions. So they really refined everything.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
It's all real locations. Yeah, they haven't really built much.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah, so when they actually got the green light to series,
they're like, all right, now we can we really can
afford to build all this stuff. But it's funny to
think that, like being the continuity nippicker that I am
as I watch these things, like this is supposed to
be the next day, everything looks so different so hard.
I'll tell you, I'll tell you what's not there. The
Veritas someone, I'm never gonna let that go because that's honestly,
that's the most insulting rerecon in history of recons.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
But anyway, anybody else notice how like artfully they dodge
saying the word alien in this Like I was trying
to watch it, like like not as into it as we.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Are, parents aren't from around here.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, they never say it, obviously they show the spaceship,
but like I get it, Like guys that are saying
you didn't know it was the Superman thing, Like I
get it, because.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Remember this is two thousand and one, we're not allowed
to see superhero costumes or mentioned superhero names, so those
will never be successful, never make money in a box
officer on TV ever. Again, So no thanks, Batman and Robin.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
It's kind of funny this came out like right after Unbreakable, right,
and that was the same thing where it was like
the studio was like, no, like we don't want to
advertise this as a superhero thing, like that's s geeky,
that's not in vogue or whatever.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
It became taboo, and so that's why, like we have
this like pared down show, but now Smuggle end up
proven wrong.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (32:34):
I think that's actually part of the reason.

Speaker 6 (32:36):
I've said this before and I've gotten real into it
on my podcast, But like Smallville was such a trailblazer
and such a pioneer, and honestly though, I think that
worked for them. I think the fact that they grounded
it and they pare down all the super stuff and
they really need it about this young man who doesn't
feel like he fits in anywhere and is reckoning with

(32:56):
all of this, I think that really set a course
both on TV and screen that there's a human way
to tell these epic mythical stories.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Roll hitting in their heads that this young man who
doesn't know his place in the world, he's trying to
figure it out. And that's what we all are in
high school and when we're younger, and even you know,
even when we're older, sometimes there's trying to figure it out.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Who knows.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
I think everybody could relate in some way to one
of these characters, like it's funny, it's it's it's like
depends on where you are in life or kind of
mood you're in. You're like you watch them all like, yeah,
I'm totally Clark im No, unfortunately, I'm totally lex So
that's that's the beauty of the show. So and I
don't do you guys, Yes, it was on the WB
but I mean, being a high schooler at the time,
like being Clark stage right, I was like, oh, this

(33:39):
is great. I love Superman and I'm a teenager and
I have all these feelings. This is my jam right.
But I think they they did a pretty good balance,
and they established that balance pretty well here in the
pilot for like how much SUPERHEROI ish stuff are gonna
do and how much like to you know, lack of
a better term to w b ish creaking ship up.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, to the point where the show starts with the epic,
with the cinematic, with the you know, the Superman of it,
and ends with like, oh, that boy just wants to
be with that girl. That's out. It totally becomes a
wb show after forty minutes.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Oh yeah, real does.

Speaker 7 (34:14):
And the high school element like this first in the pilot,
like it starts off with like the backdrop of all
of this is Homecoming. Yeah, like it's you know, it
just something that everybody can relate to, and everybody.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Knows what that is.

Speaker 8 (34:25):
Americans.

Speaker 7 (34:26):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, Americans know what that is. It's
something for us to really like dive into and just like, oh,
we understand this world. I'm all about it.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Did he really think Lana wasn't gonna go to the
homecoming dance with Whitney? Like thing, Yeah, I'm going to
that thing. Come on, man, you gotta take your shot,
I guess.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
But come on, right, it was a big deal.

Speaker 8 (34:45):
He mustered up a lot of courage to do that.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Okay, okah, do you think Whitney's treatment of Clark is
kind of extreme?

Speaker 5 (34:53):
Here?

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Like like or just the whole what do you guys
think about the scarecrow thing? Period?

Speaker 5 (34:58):
They strung you up and put you in a field.
Even the Romans saved up for special occasions.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
A great mine from Metamorphosis episode people.

Speaker 6 (35:07):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
He also like checks out Lana in the first scene
creepy in retrospect, well even out of retrospect, but can't
knock your taste in women, as he bites an apple
and throws apple welf.

Speaker 6 (35:18):
I mean you hear stories, You hear those like tragedy,
like those stories of just people doing.

Speaker 8 (35:26):
Unimaginable things.

Speaker 6 (35:27):
And I don't I mean, I grew up in suburbia,
but I also grew up in like I know, no
one believes us, but in New Jersey, like we grew
up in I grew up in a farm town.

Speaker 8 (35:37):
I and so, I mean when you don't have much
else to do.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
But I also grew up I went to a huge
state school too, And I can totally see the scarecrow
kind of thing happening.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
It's just hazing.

Speaker 7 (35:49):
Yeah, so like and and unfortunately, like stuff like this
goes on if you're in a group of it, like
are a part of a team or something like that like,
dumb stuff is going to go on, and you're gonna
do dumb stuff.

Speaker 6 (36:02):
When I was at Chapel Hill, a kid died after
he fell off like a water tower or he fell
off something and died.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Never underestimate the cruelty of children.

Speaker 7 (36:10):
Yeah, no, yeah, so yeah, it's believable that in this
small town, you know, the varsity football team would torment somebody.
And it just so happens that Whitney caught Lana giving
Clark a peck on the cheek and he's like, I'm
nipping this in the bud, and that he made Clark the.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Target of him.

Speaker 6 (36:27):
Yeah, and then the only unrealistic thing is like he's
like you six foot three, Like.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
God, you're it. That's the thing. Like I understand why
they cast him like Tom Welling. And you can say, well,
Kryptonian's age faster and mature puberty whatever. I can fan
by my explanation. But you look at Chizam, right, those
kids looked like teenagers. Right. Yes, nowadays they're actually trying
to cast younger people for these roles, but I mean

(36:54):
this is two thousand and one. We're still like in
the Dawson's Creek era of like, let's cast a thirty
year old you know, Beverly Hills ninety one.

Speaker 6 (36:59):
Oh yeah, but it's all right. So I have two
jaded Hollywood explanations for that. One is that, A, you
don't want to cast a minor because they can't work
as many hours. And then two, I don't think I
mean nowadays, I think they cast younger actors, like I
know they do it with Tom Holland in the MTU

(37:20):
because they're like, oh, you're gonna.

Speaker 8 (37:21):
Hear you're sending a nine movie contract deal.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Yeah, so we need you to be able.

Speaker 6 (37:26):
To age in this. And I don't think they really
expected Smallville.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
To be a ten year long show, right, No, that
is clear.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Well, at the end of this very episode, he's like
Jonathan asked Clark. He's like, hey, Clark, how you doing.
He's like, ask me in about five years. That's like,
that's a.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Flat brilliant Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
A week part of the pilot is the freak of
the Week. They have so much to establish, right it's
the first episode of the first season. They're establishing this
news universe of Superman. You know, something's got to give.
There's not enough time, you know, so the villain falls,
it's kind of like start trek coding nine. They had
so much to do. They need to established the crew
all that sort of stuff, the villain and that nero.

(38:05):
But anyway, he's a hello, Hi Christopher, iim neiro. I
mean Eric Manon was fine, but like it's like, Okay,
we're not We're not here for that. You're just an
obstacle to like assemble the team. That's the kind of
deal here that there needs to be a mystery that
needs to go on. And that's what I'm saying. Like
the fight this is like, this is so so classic Smallville.
I'm so glad that the first fight, like he throws

(38:25):
the guy thirty feet that's like the end of a
right and even when he wakes up though, like and
they they used this in these pro on these ABC
Family promos, Victoria, you're talking about like when when the
guy wakes up and he's like, oh, what's going on?
He's like, I'm Clark Kent and you're the ABC Family.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
You know, he might as well said that, Yeah, there's
your trip.

Speaker 6 (38:44):
I could tell you the song that's playing in the
background of the ABC Family promos, Like it's nice to
see you by fooled by April.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
From Clark Kent. You're in small though.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
What's happening to me? It's like having a dual identity.

Speaker 6 (39:05):
I can see through things normal, there's a person that
everybody sees.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
All I want to do is go through high school
without being a totle loss and the person that you
want to be, you're the feeling.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
This is the story of Glde.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
Can't I give.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Anything to be normal?

Speaker 4 (39:19):
A small hill coming up next?

Speaker 2 (39:21):
On a DC Family.

Speaker 6 (39:25):
I was like a huge Spider Man band. I was
obsessed with Spider Man, like be on obsessed with spider Man.
Was like f Superman. Superman is not as cool as
Spider Man. And then I was on vacation in Cape
cod and I saw these ABC family promos. While I
was watching whose line is it?

Speaker 8 (39:39):
Anyway? And I like Tom Welling Space came on screen.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
And I was like, who is that?

Speaker 1 (39:48):
What is going on here?

Speaker 6 (39:54):
And like everyone would just screen to me.

Speaker 8 (39:55):
I could be showering, I could be like doing anything.

Speaker 6 (39:57):
And everyone's like the commercials on would run and just
like watch it, be like I need I want to
go to there.

Speaker 8 (40:06):
And then I became a brand fan.

Speaker 7 (40:08):
It's funny like you're talking about that. Like a lot
of people in high school, like a lot of people
that we talked to, like, we're watching the show because
it was it was new, it was fresh, and it
was it was really popular these first especially the first
couple of years, and and so like everybody had that
reaction with Tom and then like and just like all
of us had the same reaction with Lana and Chloe.
It's just funny, like everybody had the same reactions to

(40:29):
the stars of the show. It's just like, oh, this
is our stuff right here.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
That's also why we can't cast fourteen year olds because
these people have to be hot and we haven't want
to see them. Yeah, that's a.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Part fourteen year old. Yeah right. The music, right, the
pop music begins here, so great. Yeah, life House, I'm
gonna oh my god, I have so much everything, your
every thing?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Are we all fans of everything?

Speaker 5 (40:56):
Every time I hear that song, I always get chills,
and I think at that moment, and and there are
quite a few moments I'm not ashamed to admit that
I'll get teary eyed hearing that song.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
It's it's very heartfelt than like seeing him and the
camera pans up and all that.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
It's so good the moment when it cuts from her
being there to her not being there, it's just so relatable,
you know, it's just such a great moment.

Speaker 7 (41:24):
And and just listen to the lyrics. It's like it's perfect.
Like y'all know how much I love perfect songs for
perfect occasions. That is the perfect song for that occasion.
There's nothing no other song would have been, like would
a fit.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yes, it's a perfect song for the unhealthy relationship that
is Clark And yes, all I want You're all I need.

Speaker 6 (41:41):
You ain't know it was unhealthy.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Then.

Speaker 6 (41:47):
I have a lot of feelings about the song everything
in this pilot. I was like bracing myself for it
because like I'm the weird thing where if I love something,
I actually don't want to watch it too many times,
I think because it's such an intense.

Speaker 8 (41:57):
Emotional experience for me.

Speaker 6 (42:00):
Returns, Yeah, but it was bonkers when like I was
watching that scene and I was even ready for it
and listening.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
To that song literally like Returns was in the room.

Speaker 6 (42:10):
Where I first watched it, and for me two thousand
and four to back just like it was, Yeah, it was.

Speaker 8 (42:18):
It just shows you the power, the power of it.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Then, that's kind of like the small of a love
song in the first season, because they bring it back
in the finale too season. It's kind of like they
had it with Whitney playing it though.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
That's Clark's song. That was.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Totally kinship by then. My friend, so, I was all
about that song.

Speaker 5 (42:39):
That was.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Totally kship by then, my friend, so, I was all about, there,
they can have that song.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
He just has a very vivid fantasy life like it
all it all plays in.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
That's a weird thing. Let's talk about that, right, The
daydreaming that he does in this episode.

Speaker 8 (42:56):
I'm into it.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, Yeah, it's very relateable.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
He imagines he's a football star, Like we've all been there, right,
It's just going to be a thing that It's like
pilots always have these things that they always drop and
they're like, all right, enough enough day dreaming. It's just
it's funny to see him do that multiple times in
this episode and they never really do that again.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, marpaceships.

Speaker 6 (43:14):
For instance, Martha's class on Weekday Night.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yes, yes, aout.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
I don't think they had fleshed out her metropolis backstory
by the in Victoria and the nell Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
I love are visiting that. I was like, oh, I
loved it explored.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
I feel like they referenced it a couple of times,
like that's why Clark and Lawna never really became friends
even though their houses in this pilot are one hundred
yards from each other.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
And she was wearing a crimpon nine necklace.

Speaker 8 (43:46):
But go on, well yeah no, but that's like a reason.

Speaker 6 (43:49):
But I just remember there's an episode somewhere where in
season one, it's like first half of season one where
she's like, it's.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
A shimmer is the episode out on the porch. You're like,
oh yeah, Jude and my dad and your hair used
to wow. Okay, yeah yeah, And it was an interesting character.
I wish they would have used her more. And that's
writing her off.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
That was another and also another drop thing that was
like I'm kind of glad they dropped, but it's just
kind of weird. Like in the pilot, you know, when
we talked about the freak waking up and being like, oh,
you know who am I and you're blah blah blah,
and your name's and you're Jeremy and you're in Smallville,
like right, I'm Clark Kenton. But like they never did
that again, right, like where the freak totally forgets what
he did. Like it's it's always like he has he

(44:28):
or she has more economy than that.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
They didn't give every although we have an amnes account
on the show, they a least didn't give every single
villain like some kind of like because they had to
be smart about it. Like Clark's using this and that's
that's part of the fun of the show too. There
is no secret identity here, so he has to really
be smart about how he uses his powers.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
At least they didn't wipe the main villain's memory.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, like imagine imagine that the show ended and like
Lex Luthor got his mind. But that was the stupidest ending, right, Anyway,
maybe we'll talk about that and our conversations is to
go down this list, we'll see his power set. I
think it was real smart to to to just give
him strength and speed and then he kind.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Of earns the power vulnerability, right, and now he gets
to puberty throughout this series.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
It's just yeah, it's really.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Great vision the X ray.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
You know, they kind of run out around season six
and like, oh, give him the super breath. Okay, we
all know that. But but but that that was smart though,
like to see him and that's something they kind of
evolved over season one. He didn't really know how strong
he was, Like he didn't know that he could get
hit by a car, you know, Like that's why he
sticks his arm in the wood chipper because it's like,
look what's up here? Because he knew he was like
fast and strong, but you could still kind of explain

(45:33):
that away. That's why he's like googling the fastest man alive.
I guess that might have been some kind of flash reference.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
And that and doing like the speed, looking at the speed. Look,
there's no effect. That just hidn't like move his head
back and forth all the time.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Oh yeah, that was smart, I think. And that's that
kind of because if he had all these powers already,
of course you'd know you were an alien, right yeah, right, yeah, right.

Speaker 7 (45:52):
He knows he's different, he just doesn't know exactly how
different he's, yeah, or why, so he just kind of doesn't.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
It's just it's a mystery to him constantly.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
It's interesting too, I guess we're talking about it. We're
talking about the show. A lot of the characters are
in place here that we're going to live with for
the first Maybe Line will be in the exception because
we only get him in the beginning there, but like
none of this, yeah, none of the like trappings of
it are here yet again stuff highlight like they haven't
built all the sets. We're not in a hospital once

(46:20):
an episode that you know, like you know, it's a
successful show, And it's telling that it's a success because
maybe these characters were ready to go from from minute one,
you know, and then the rest of it kind of
kind of came't with it, but it's telling.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Yeah, it's it's we joke about the lack of continuity,
but it's not like Dirou. They just kind of tighten
the screws a little bit on everything, kind of gave
it a nice finessa second pass, and nothing really contradicts
anything they you forward until they get really late and
getting red counting and stuff. But these characters, you're right, man,
as we see him here, they pretty much are the
characters we see for the first few seasons of the show.

Speaker 6 (46:54):
Yeah, I was was I the only one who's like
I remember when Lana was like lovely and tall.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yes, absolutely for you the only No, you were not
the only one.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah. Season one Lot is my favorite Lona.

Speaker 8 (47:09):
She's not raging psychobath and.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
She's not like accusing people of lies and secrets and
all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
And she doesn't know Clark very well yet exactly.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
It's a good call. The talking to the parents of
the grave reminded me of Batman mask of the phantasm.
Anybody else, Ye, absolute.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Episode.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
I haven't listened to that first episode in a long time.
So you guys, ever, this is a side note. You
guys are listeners, you guys are fans, you guys are
my friends. Now do you ever like re listen to
episodes of the podcast? I mean, how big of the
fans are you?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Okay, because I do?

Speaker 5 (47:41):
Sometimes, dude, the podcast would Sometimes the podcast would make
my really long, like my road trips, like when I
have to go and teach out in Irvine, going out there,
listening to the podcast would like make it so much
less boring and fun, Like I'd be like, I'll just
listen to you guys geeking out about small hills drive
two hours.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
You have re listenability, people, You're here to hear first.

Speaker 8 (48:05):
No, I love listening to it on my runs. And
I also feel like Smallville.

Speaker 6 (48:08):
Like not a lot of people I don't know in
the general populace of Los Angeles like like Smallville.

Speaker 8 (48:14):
So it's like such a thing. It's right here right now,
the circles I run in.

Speaker 6 (48:21):
But I just love having like a little like small Behaven.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, I will say it does seem to especially like
around people our age. It seems to be the one
like geek thing that you might mention that goes like, oh,
I remember that show because it was a thing for
a second. I might have watched like season two or three.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
They remember like certain things that they were around because
the billboards, I mean like it was main Street exactly
a second, and the.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
Whole that whole like aspect of it being like our
age group. So specifically, it's like that didn't fully hit
me until I was a teacher. And when I was
teaching the kids who are now are how how we were,
we were watching Small Villa and I would bring this
up all the time, you know, like and like I'd
sneak it into like, you know, whatever I was teaching,

(49:09):
Like I'm teaching Romeo and Juliet, and I showed them
like a Clark and lawna scene.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Was like.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
But they didn't know what it was at all, and
and I was like, you guys have never heard of this.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
I was like, that's your homework.

Speaker 5 (49:22):
Forget like regularly forget that you don't know you.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Know how to read miles in golf.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, so you know, I think ultimately the pilot, I
mean it's it's hard to talk about that without talking
about just the show in general and like all that.
So they it all kind of mels there because it
all started here. If this was a hey, this could
have gone the way of Acklaman or Wonder Woman right
or you know, Birds of Prey. I mean, it fizzled out.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
We went to series.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Ultimately, like I think we've said it in many ways
around here, I think the key to novel was the
characters and the casting and when when written correctly, when
when those I mean that goes for any thing, right, writing,
casting right. But the foundation here is extremely solid and
all starts here.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I think if I.

Speaker 6 (50:05):
Could add, I think the and yeah, if it's good writing,
it'll be good. But I think but I think what
was so special and why this worked is because they
were the stars aligned and they struck that balance of
incorporating enough of what we already knew, whether you be
like a big Superman fan or even like someone who
is just kind of peripherally aware of Superman like I

(50:28):
was when I started, or if someone was like going
completely cold like Matt, they did enough where you could
kind of like see I just think they incorporated the
right mix of the lore with like new twists, and
then also just leaving everything open for them to develop.

Speaker 8 (50:46):
I think that's why it worked.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
Pretty much kind of echoing what you guys have said.
The it's just such a solid foundation. It really starts
us off in kind of like the perfect place for
like Victoria mentioned, like there's can be people coming at
it like you guys who like have known Superman and
you can see like, oh, this is so cool, how
this twist is different on the mythology, and you can
come at at that point or you can be someone

(51:10):
like me who knows nothing coming into it. And then
and and it doesn't lose either viewer, which is really
interesting to me, Like it somehow strikes that perfect balance
of like the emotional realism. You know, there's such a
difference between realism and emotional realism. But the emotional realism
that they strike that can draw kind of any audience in,

(51:31):
whether they're into Superman or whether they're not at all, right,
like it can draw anyone in. So they strike that
balance of that and the fantasy and the magic of
Superman and now rewatching it all these years later as
a massive Superman, and that balance is just so like
beautifully struck, and it's just there and everything, like in
the dialogue, like all the all the clever little egg

(51:53):
nuggets they throw in there that now that you know,
weren't anything to me back then, and that now means
something visuals like you guys mentioned the Red Cape. It's
just every everything about it strikes that balance really beautifully.
And I feel like that's something that carries throughout like
the first three seasons spectacularly, and you know, as we said,

(52:13):
it drops in season four or whatever some people make,
but it really strikes that balance really beautifully. And as
Matt mentioned, it starts as an epic and then it
ends as a WB romance and it and that's another
that balance they strike really well.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Which is really beautiful. I will also say too, like
as a Superman fan, the moment of the Kent's Finding
Finding Baby Park there like that. That is my favorite
filmed version of that. It's just I really like the
Leves and Clark pilot as like my version of the Origin.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
But that that is just so.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
It's it's it's perfect. A weird thing though, it's so
cute too. Yeah, yeah, the casting was great.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I did find it weird though, just like real quick
they gave like they used electric guy really early. I
remember thinking that as a kid like that, this is
a weird one to just kind of throw away on
the pilot here, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (53:10):
I think it was just you know, it's probably just
it was an easy one for them to do effects wise, right,
so they just kind of made the quickest, easiest decision.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, agreed.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
The guy that runs the auto shop, he goes on
to play the dark Archer, Oliver's mentor and uh the
Ciple in season nine.

Speaker 7 (53:31):
Just picking back on what everybody else is saying, this
pilot is just like it's a great launch pad for
the rest of the show. I mean, if this didn't work,
we're not here doing.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
This right now.

Speaker 7 (53:40):
And it obviously did, because like the best part about
the pilot is like it tells us everything we need
to know about everybody involved in the show, and it
and it hooks you from the end of the episode
and we're looking forward to seeing what happens next for everybody,
Like there's an actual like eagerness to find out what
happens next after this pilot. And I think every pilot
should do that, and all the good ones do it,

(54:01):
and this is a perfect example.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, random question for super nerds like us. We're all
talking about the characters they're established on. Is there a
character from later on the series that could have been
introduced here and made it a better show?

Speaker 3 (54:15):
I have a thought.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Open because I wanted to ask you this question. I
didn't want to have to be blank as I did it,
Like I would have loved to see hints of the Tessa,
just throw a little little hints throughout the series, even
even if we never saw her. If it was just like,
you know, Dad's got his second family, like just something

(54:39):
happy like that, just to give the feeling that, like
when Lionel's not here, he might be scamming.

Speaker 6 (54:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
I give season seven on the Craft recrunting. Season eight
just invented someone who is the second in command of
Luther Cormy. Yeah, exactly, that's good.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
Lu I do I do, Yeah, I do think that
would have been cool. I mean I rewatched what was
it lineage recently too, and there's that that, you know,
that moment that I thought like, oh, okay, I know
it wasn't planned, but it fits really well with the
whole test thing where he's like, I loved your mother
very deeply, but I was not a perfect husband.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Well you know, speaking on line of like with John
Glover and we're going back back around, but like he
had a little bit in this episode, but like when
he sees Lex's ball for the first time, like he's like,
look of just disgust, Like, yep, that's your child for
like the worst paron ever.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
So yeah, my child's not normal anymore.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
What would have interesting thought on that question, on that
thought too, is like what what would have the like,
what would have Lex's you know whole arc then if
it had just been the original plan that he would
just make a few guest appearances and he would just
be like a bad dad, but like that's pretty much it.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Yeah, it would be very episodic and very like when
when we need to give Lex some drama here. We'll
call John Glover in for something, right. I mean, he
became the big bat of the show for a couple
of seasons. That was essential.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
So Lex might have had to become the villain sooner.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Maybe they could have wrapped the show up in a
more timely manner.

Speaker 6 (56:09):
But that's not their fault though.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
That was. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I don't think victim of their own success. Victoria. Yeah,
right right, Matt. To answer your question, Kenny Braverman would
have been a good one to add in the pilot
because that's a character he's in the comic books. He
wasn't small at the time. Did he have electric powers less?

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Okay, I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
I kind of wanted you to know these things. He
didn't know. He was a character that was a high
school with him. He had some kind of I think
electric powers of some kind.

Speaker 8 (56:34):
I thought it was like, no, that was Adam Brody. Well,
then please do keep up the lens.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Was he in the in the in this uh Lesion
Superheroes episode of the Superman the animated series? Anyway, look
it up people who are listening. But I think that's
always somebody like, oh, they're definitely gonna use this guy
because he was in the site, you know, like characters
in high school. With Clark, it's like Wana Pete and
like this guy, you know, he just never showed up
in small but which was shocking me. But anyway, they

(57:07):
could have had a more like established like young Superman
villain for the pilot. Maybe that's some change I would make,
make the villain less generic lightning guy.

Speaker 6 (57:16):
Yeah, or maybe if like maybe maybe you don't introduce
someone in because I'm not as up on my Superman lore,
but maybe you made Whitney a meteor.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Freak, you see, but they made everybody meteor freak by
the end. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (57:29):
I think the pilot is great, But a question was
posed to me, and I'm riffing.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
You guys that we would be remiss not to mention
that that everything is actually not the first pop sung
in the show. Though, come to think of it, it's
the calling right when Lex's with LEXI.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah, stop terrible car music. Yeah, it's his seduction music.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
And then he has Clark and on the commentary, Alan
Miles are like laughing about it being like a meet cute,
only it's meat violin.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, I mean they kiss the first thing they do
to each other is kids.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
Oh, I know.

Speaker 6 (58:03):
I saw that, and I was like the mount to
Mount that launched a thousand ships.

Speaker 5 (58:07):
Yep, yep, Well there was a I just watched an
interview with all the cast like a recent con and
Tom was saying that Michael kept making jokes the whole
time and he couldn't take it seriously because he was
making jokes about them kissing me.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Not surprising, but it's also interesting, like they start literally
that close and then become super villains.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
So I know it's very analysis. Some metrics right there.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
I know it's nice. Right on the entire brown.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
Breaking first season of small Ville one DBD, over fifteen
hours of the teenager who would one day be Superman?

Speaker 7 (58:42):
Available with incredible extra should a Man or Superman by the.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
First season of small Ville now on DBD.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
All right, well, I hope you all enjoyed our discussion
of pilot for the pilot, I never really know how
to say it out loud. I'm talking about the pilot
of Smallville. Obviously it's the pilot, but you know it's
titled as pilot, and every other episode I say the
title of I don't say the in front of it.
But be that as it may. Talking about how much
it established right lance talking about it the promise of

(59:15):
the premise, I think the hook that this show had.
Look around at these other shows that were coming out
around the same time as Smallville, or meant to come
out around the same time as Smallville. Birds of Prey
has a really good pilot, right, Aquamand has a really
good pilot. One of those shows got cut short by
half a season. That's all he got Birds of Prey,

(59:37):
and the other show didn't even make it to air.
All that exists of the Akaman show is this pilot.
The hook that this show had that those two didn't have.
For example, were this setup of the greatest hero and
the greatest villain or the greatest of friends when their
story start, right, what a compelling story that is, right?

(59:58):
You have arch nemesies to end all arch neimesses and
they're friends here, and that is super compelling. And without
that element, Smallville doesn't work. So we had a good
time joking about the freak of the week and things
like that. But Smallville's pilot did its job. It sold
us on these characters and these situations. And again the

(01:00:19):
casting lightning in a bottle the acting spot on like
you fall in love with and understand who these characters
are in this episode and it keeps you locked in,
hopefully for ten years. Maybe not all of us made
it all the way, but this is where the journey started.
And I would encourage people not to sleep on the pilot,
despite me saying, don't overrate the pilot and get it

(01:00:39):
three roses. It's a really good episode. It's a really
good pilot, and it's why we are all here today.
And as I'm doing in our top ten episodes, I
do want to shout out the pop music. We talked
a little bit about the pop music and our conversations,
but let me say it here again. Everything becomes the
love theme of season one of Smallville. Lifehouse ended up

(01:01:01):
having multiple songs on Smallville. Always exciting when a group
had more than one song on Smallvel that helps you know,
cement them as part of the true soundtrack of the
show and the feel of the show. But they would
go on to have more than just one song. But
everything is a rare song that got played more than
once as well on Smallville, which helps cement it so
very nostalgic and a banger and we are two for

(01:01:25):
two with a plus popular music in our episodes, and
you might ask yourself, Zach, what about Remy Zero? What
about to Save Me? Well, Hey, that song's on in
this episode because there are no opening credits because in
the Smallville pilot, there's no opening credits, no theme song,
no Remy Zero, no save Me. So there you have it.
So again, I hope you all enjoyed our conversation. Stay

(01:01:48):
tuned next week to find out which episode is the
number eight episode of Smallville, as lettered by you, the listeners,
and until then, Always hold on To Smallville. Always hold

(01:02:21):
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(01:03:29):
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become a patron at going to patreon dot com, slash
Always Malville with one S. Hope to see you there.
Alviose theme music is by Lance Laster and our podcast
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