Balancing Grace and Truth in Today's Church with LGBTQ

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
All right, everybody, welcome to Once Lost Ministries
.
This is Growing and Going,where we have a desire to grow
and know who Jesus is.
That is why we are here.
We open up His Word and wesearch the scriptures daily to
see whether these things are so,and there's just so many things
going on today.
I am Kyle Peart Flynn Hughesby,and a special guest today with

(00:38):
us is Brady Cohn.
Brady is with CalibrateConversations and, man, we're
just so grateful to have you.
Thank you for joining us.
I know it's late in Seattle, sothank you.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
No problem, so glad to be here, kyle and Flynn.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, right on, man.
We put this together lastminute and there's a lot of If
anyone's familiar with Brady, ifnot, he's going to fill you in
here shortly.
But the date today whethersomeone watches this video in
six months or not, the datetoday is May 30th.

(01:14):
But June 1st is coming up,which is the start of Pride
Month, which is a full-on monthdedicated to pride, and I think
we're going to get into that alittle bit.
I think there's some irony inthe statement of that, which I'd
really love to engage and openthat up.
But, man, I pray that anyonewatching this right now hears

(01:36):
our heart.
I pray that you're quick tolisten and slow to speak.
I pray for that from our heartsas well.
Uh, we know that theseconversations regarding pride
and and uh, homosexuality is avery tough conversation, but the
Lord has given us um surety onhow to engage as we walk in the

(01:57):
spirit.
So, the Christians watching wepray that you are seeking the
Lord as we think about and talkabout these things, engage in
his word.
And those that have questionsright now I pray that you hear
the message that we're sharing.
We truly do love you.
We truly do have a desire foryou to know the truth and as we

(02:19):
get through and talk aboutspecific things on this I hope
you hear that from us talk aboutspecific things on this.
I hope you hear that from usand it may not sound or feel
comforting, but ultimately we dowant you to come to the
knowledge of truth that has hopeand redemption in who God is
and the love that he has for you, for all of us equally.

(02:39):
So, that being said, brady,tell us a little bit about
yourself Thank you for being onhere and just tell us who you
are, man, and tell us about yourministry first, before we get
into others Sounds great.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So I'm Brady Cohn.
I live here at EnumclawWashington, just outside of
Seattle, but I'm from theMidwest, grew up in Nebraska,
born and raised, so go Big RedHusker fan through and through.
So when you're from Nebraskayou have to be so.
It's the only option, so I liveoutside Seattle here now with
my wife and two little kids, andmy studio here is on our little

(03:14):
farm.
We have a little farm and weraise miniature donkeys, and so
if you want to stalk my Facebook.
find me on Facebook and it'susually flooded with donkey
pictures and cat pictures and mylittle kids pictures.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
So nice between my two goats and we got chickens
too and your donkeys we couldhave like a full on mini farm
dude.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yes, absolutely Sounds, sounds wonderful.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah.
So what does the Lord kind ofcall you to?
I know you have a we, we, wegeneralize you know with
apologetics and evangelism hereon the channel.
But what do you kind ofnavigate and introduce yourself
ministry-wise to the peoplelistening?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, so I'm the executive director of Calibrate
Ministries and we help peopleembrace God's standard for
sexuality, so you guys will behearing my story about what
God's done in my life in regardsto sexuality, and we see such a
need in the church to beequipped.
I don't think there's any otherissue today that we need to be
equipped more than when it comesto sexuality and gender, and so

(04:22):
I mostly travel and speak.
I usually do about 40 speakingengagements in churches a year,
and so I'm traveling on theweekends with my family speaking
in churches, and then we do apodcast and we have a parents
ministry for parents of LGBTQkids to really walk alongside
them and minister to theirhearts, and so, yeah, so it's

(04:43):
really just an overflow of whatGod has done in my life.
I've found so much freedom inChrist and he's done so much
work in my life and transformingmy sexuality that I want to see
other people find that samehope in Christ.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, that's the one thing that really really spoke
to me is you also have a weeklyengagement I don't know if you
want to tell us more about that,but where you are openly
available in discussion withpeople struggling with these
specific desires.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, so I do a lot of follow-up and one-on-one
discipleship with people who arestruggling.
I always have to be careful notto develop long-term
discipleship.
I believe that God put thelocal church on earth to be the
primary means of discipleship,and my job is to equip the local

(05:40):
church.
But it's so sometimeslife-giving to have someone who
relates to you, and when I cameto know Christ and was trying to
walk away from homosexual life,I had no one else who
understood.
I had never met someone elsewho had found victory over it,
and so I want people to see thatthere is hope that they can

(06:04):
live a different life.
And so many times I sit downwith other guys who are
struggling and they've neverheard a story of hope before,
and so I want to be availablefor guys to be able to have
someone who understands, and Ithink that's one of the hardest
parts in the church for guysdealing with same-sex attraction
.
It feels like there's no otherguys who understand, even though

(06:24):
we're all feels like there's noother guys who understand, even
though we're all sinners.
We all struggle with differentsin issues.
This just feels different thanall the other guys and none of
them quite get me, and so I'vebeen just blessed to be able to
be that person for a lot of guyswho understands what they're
feeling and thinking and goingthrough.
But then I do my best to pointthem back to their local church

(06:46):
and help them dig intodiscipleship there.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, and I think that's really fundamental for
this conversation, I think, forpeople to see the reality that
it's not social mediaChristianity talking right now
for the listeners watching.
I think there's so many clichesout there and you could probably
elaborate further on that withyour testimony and tell us kind

(07:14):
of how the Lord led you throughthat.
But I know that between thehashtags and the memes and the
gifs and all those things,there's a real clarity on how to
have these conversations andwhat hope is that you just said
that comes from the God of thescriptures and not from the

(07:35):
people on Facebook whetherthat's Christian that are
engaging poorly, that are young.
I mean, I could tell you I wasan overzealous, very immature
young believer and I just wantedto tell people lots of things
but I hurt a lot of people.
I said a lot of crude, rudethings and I'm well aware of
that.
Just zealous without love, andso I know those things happen.

(08:01):
But, yeah, tell us more aboutyourself and kind of build us a
ground, you know, ofunderstanding kind of the group
we're talking to and whereyou're coming from.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Sounds great.
So I'll just start from thebeginning with my story.
Like I said, I grew up inNebraska, grew up on a farm,
very rural.
I always joke with people herein Enumclaw when they talk about
this being rural.
It's like you guys don't knowwhere rural is.
And so I grew up in a town of100 people and a county of 400.
And so very rural.

(08:36):
And I had my family, brother andsisters, and I always remember
just feeling different than therest of the boys.
I remember looking at my dadand my older brother and
thinking there's just somethingdifferent about me that I don't
quite relate to them, I don'tfeel like I'm one of them.
And it wouldn't be until yearslater when I'd figure out what
some of those differences were.

(08:57):
In the meantime we were a goodchurch-going family.
You know, we did all the thingsthat small town church going
family was supposed to do.
We went to church on Sundays,we prayed before our meals.
We had the image of this greatchurch going Christian family.
But I did grow up knowing thatI was a sinner who needed Jesus
as my savior and I'm thankful tohave been told that truth from

(09:21):
an early age.
But when I was a little bitolder, about 11,.
That's when I really started tostruggle and my family's life
kind of got turned upside downand my parents got a divorce and
the whole image of being a goodchurch family was blown, and I
was really struggling with thischaos in my family's life and

(09:41):
felt like everything was chaotic.
And during that time I startedto discover, maybe, what was a
little bit different about me.
I started to experience thissame-sex attraction towards
other boys and I didn't knowwhat to do with that.
All my friends were starting tonotice girls in different ways
and they were being transformed.

(10:03):
All of a sudden the girls wentfrom having cooties to being
kind of cute, and so I could seethat transformation happening
in my friends.
But I was feeling thosefeelings for other guys and I
was really confused.
I didn't know what to do withit.
I had enough church backgroundto know that homosexuality was a
sin, but I'd grown up in somevery kind of self-righteous,

(10:26):
legalistic church backgroundswhere the only time I heard it
talked about was with theattitude that's the one
unforgivable sin.
And so just the fact that I hadthese feelings consumed me with
shame and guilt and as timewent on, like any sin issue does
it just kind of snowballs inyour heart and it builds and

(10:46):
grows.
And when I was 13, I decided Ihave to tell someone, and my
family had given up on church.
But I was going to youth groupand so I decided that maybe I
should tell a youth leader aboutwhat's going on.
But before I had the courage todo that, one night a youth
group was a pivotal moment in mylife where the youth pastor

(11:07):
from the pulpit said to theentire group he said I wish all
homosexuals would die.
And you know that just feltlike a knife to my chest.
I remember sitting therethinking that's me, that's me
who he's talking about, that'sme, that's me who he's talking
about.
And so I actually went homethat night as a just a confused,

(11:31):
hurting 13 year old and Iloaded a gun, because we're in
Nebraska, so everyone had gunsin their house, and so I loaded
a gun and, uh, I was going toend my life because I thought,
well, god wants all homosexualsto die.
And thankfully, before I pushedthe trigger on the gun, I heard
my mom walk in the front doorand so I kind of came to my
senses, jolted myself out of itand hurried and put the gun
underneath my bed before shefound anything, and so I

(11:53):
obviously didn't end my lifethat night.
But that was just the start ofa downward spiral where I didn't
trust Christians, I didn't goback to church, I didn't go back
to youth group.
I started to become convinced Iguess I have to try even harder
to hide this and I have to puton an image for everyone and so
I became very good at doing that.

(12:13):
At the same time, thisattraction was growing and
building, and it was soon afterthat incident of youth group
that I discovered online pornfor the first time.
So this was over 20 years agonow, so internet was a brand new
thing.
Probably a lot of our youngerlisteners can't understand
internet not being a thing, butwe had the computer in my

(12:36):
bedroom with a dial of internetthat made the horrible noise in
your ear, and I remember thefirst time I discovered gay
pornography for the first time.
I was instantly hooked, andpart of it was I desperately
wanted to belong.
I wanted to be understood bysomeone, and here was this place
where there's people who hadthe same feelings as me.

(12:58):
They had the same desires.
I felt like I was one of them,and the only place it seemed
like I could have that feelingof belonging was in this online
world of darkness.
So, as my pornography addictiongrew, just like many people with
pornography, you want toexperience what you're seeing on
the screen, and so I started toexperiment with sexual

(13:21):
encounters with other guys andkind of relationships.
It was all underground Because20 years ago our world was so
much different, especially smalltown Nebraska.
But it was there and it was soeasy to find in all these
internet chat rooms and I would,even as a 14-year-old,

(13:41):
15-year-old, many times be withmuch older men willing to pay me
for it, many times be with mucholder men willing to pay me for
it, and that happens everywhere, so much more than anyone would
imagine.
But I was so desperate tobelong, to feel valuable, to
feel wanted by someone, to feelthis emotional connection with a

(14:02):
man.
Men seemed to be reallyintriguing to me.
I was curious about them, Iwanted to connect with them so
deeply because I didn't quitefeel like I was one of them and
so.
But I was intrigued by them andso this sexual connection and
relational connection was a wayto have that deep connection
that my heart just craved sodeeply, and I was wrestling with

(14:24):
spiritual aspects of it too,because you know, I'd grown up
believing that homosexuality isa sin, and so what am I supposed
to do with that?
And I was kind of on thispendulum back and forth with God
and say, all right, god, Iguess you can't love me like
this.
So I guess I have to fix myself.
And so I'd try to do that Iwould walk away from the
pornography and the sexualencounters and everything.
And so I try to do that.

(14:44):
I would walk away from thepornography and the sexual
encounters and everything.
And anyone who has dealt withsin issues, who's tried to deal
with that under your own powerand strength, you know how that
goes.
It lasted for about 46 minuteson average, and then you just
give in and give up.
And then I guess that's the wayI am.
And culture was talking aboutthese issues a lot more and

(15:05):
saying if you have same-sexattraction, you're just gay and
that's who you have to be.
You need to accept it, embraceit.
You're just born that way, andso that's where I was when I
graduated from high school.
I just became convinced that Iguess I'm just born this way.
It feels like I'm just bornthis way, even though I don't
believe that.
Now, that's the way it felt,that's what society was saying.

(15:26):
That seemed to be my experience, so I just believe that.
So I was just trying to acceptmy identity as I'm gay and
that's who I have to be, and Ialways hate to say this to
Christians because I hate thatthis was my reality, but my
reality at that point was thatthe gay community was much more
loving than the Christiancommunity, and so the gay

(15:47):
community was where I could goto have acceptance and belonging
and to be loved, and so yet theChristian community was so
painful, and so, you know, I wasjust running into the arms of
that world because that's whereI could find some acceptance and
love.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, and so, brady, you're talking there, man, and
I'm thinking for those peoplelistening that maybe can't
relate to some of your testimony.
If you took out what you'retalking about with same-sex
attraction or attraction toother guys, you know everybody
has bent toward attractiontowards something, whatever the
sin might be, whether it's.
You know whether it's arrogance, narcissism, or if it's just

(16:34):
lying, stealing drugs, I mean,my background is more dealing
with that area.
But the community I ended up intoo, was very, very accepting,
because they don't want anybodythere that's judgmental, so
nobody judges anything, you know, so that you feel very welcome
at first it draws you in and youbecome part of this culture,
and then that culture kind ofconsumes you to the point to

(16:55):
where you're not getting anymeaning out of it, you're not
getting any true satisfactionout of it.
It's just more of a cycle.
So it sounds like what I'mhearing man is, I'm hearing you
say you had cycles of sin,cycles of trying to get out of
it, cycles of being angry at God, and then you know you've got
these cycles of, you know,trying to find satisfaction in

(17:17):
this community, and so it's.
You know, it's just like forevery human being out there,
right, we are all born away fromGod and so, whether you want to
say, yeah, I have proclivitytoward this bent or that bent,
absolutely, you know we're allborn away from the Lord.
So what we need to do is getback to the Lord, and I know
your testimony deals a lot withthat, and I know we had a list

(17:39):
of questions to go through, butone of the things I was thinking
about as you were talking, ifit's okay, kyle through, but, um
, one of the things I wasthinking about as you were
talking, if it's okay, kyle, Ijust want to kind of ask if you
could address this brady now,because I'm sure you run into
this a lot.
Well, hey man, I'm just bornthat way and that's the way god
made me.
Now, even if you're not achristian, I know people.
You know, generally speaking,unless you're, you know,
professing atheist, you wouldsay that there is a god.

(17:59):
Now, the atheist, my argumentwould always be you'd have to be
God to know there is no God.
So they're ultimately sayingthey're God, but we all believe
there's some kind of God outthere.
So if somebody says to you heyman, this is how God made me, I
just need to embrace it?
How do you address it?
I'm sure you've heard it.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Absolutely.
I get that question all thetime and you know I'll at some
point finish.
We'll finish the rest of mystory where, you know, actually
came to know Christ and God ledme away from it.
But that's a great question tointerject into there, because
that's what the world says, andso we hear that statement all
the time.
It's like, well, they're just,they're just born with it.

(18:41):
And when people ask me that, Ihave a couple of different
answers for them because it'scomplicated.
So for one thing, I say that itdoesn't really matter, because
we're all born into sin and noneof us were born right the first
time.
So that's why we have to beborn again and so in that aspect
it doesn't matter.
So, for the sake of evangelism,for the sake of coming to know

(19:03):
Jesus and surrendering, itdoesn't matter if we're born
with same-sex attraction or not.
We can still surrender to Jesusand we can live a different
life with the power of the HolySpirit.
So I don't argue with anon-believer about whether or
not they were born with it ornot, which there's actually no

(19:24):
science that shows that peopleare born with same-sex
attraction.
I think that there's differentpersonalities that are more
inclined, that are more likelyhave their heart twisted in that
direction and I might have oneof those personalities in the
way that my heart responded tomy circumstances.
But there's no science thatshows that people are born gay.

(19:48):
It's just like.
It's an assumption that peoplemake, and I understand the
assumption because I know whatit feels like to feel like I'm
just born this way, like this isjust who I am, to the core of
me.
I do think that where it mattersis for the sake of discipleship
, because the mistake I see alot of Christians make is

(20:12):
believing.
Well, I know Jesus now, but Iwas just born with these
attractions.
It's like no, this is theresult of our heart twisting
something.
So God wants to untwist thatthrough discipleship over the
course of our lifetime.
And we have to be very cautiouswith that because there's some
unhealthy aspects in Christianculture of like pray away the

(20:36):
gay, you should instantly, thestruggle should go away if you
have enough faith.
It's like no, that's not theway discipleship usually works.
It's a lifelong process.
So we have to have realisticexpectations.
At the same time, we should bemoving away from what our hearts
have distorted in the flesh,and so we should be spending our

(20:56):
lifetime being discipled,letting God illuminate areas of
our hearts that reveal the liesthat we had believed, that had
led us to that place.
We see that in Romans 1.
They exchanged the truth aboutGod for a lie and worshiped
creation.
So the Creator, that led themto homosexuality.
So God, through His grace,reveals those lies that we had
believed.

(21:17):
So it's important that, asdisciples, we're open to letting
God untwist what our heartshave twisted, and I think that
that brings us to the conclusionthat this isn't natural, normal
, the way that I was born, thisis my heart seeking something
that it shouldn't be, and God,through his grace, wants to

(21:38):
untwist that through my lifetime.
And it might not be completedon this side of the cross, but
we should be moving in thatdirection.
And so that's a long answer tothe simple question of am I born
that way or not?
But one area I always cautionChristians when I answer that
question is we are the king offalse dichotomies, and not only

(22:03):
Christians but the whole world,and we have everything on one
extreme or another.
But many times I hearChristians say something like
well, are people born gay or isit a choice?
And I cringe at that becauselike, oh man, it doesn't have to
be one extreme or another.
It's like I don't believe thatI was born gay.

(22:24):
I see now, after I've come toknow Christ, how my heart was
responding to my circumstancesand turning to a certain group
of people to try to find my hopeand my value, my wholeness, and
so I don't believe I was bornthat way.
Yet I didn't choose it.
I didn't just wake up one dayand say, hey, I'm going to be

(22:45):
attracted to men today.
And I know that sexual aspectsstarted when I went through
puberty.
But now I can look back and see, like when I was five years old
, six years old, seven years old, being very hurt and wounded by
men in my life and this kind ofgap developing between me and

(23:05):
men, and me rejectingmasculinity because masculinity
had been used to hurt me.
And then so there's this gapthat was developing.
And then puberty hits and yourheart is wanting to close this
gap, and so it turns thosefeelings sexual.
And so it's like I didn't wakeup one day as a five-year-old
boy and say, hey, I'm going tobe really wounded by my father

(23:26):
today and I'm going tointernalize that and I'm going
to reject manhood.
And then, you know, when I turn11 and go through puberty, I'm
going to sexualize thosefeelings.
I didn't consciously choose thatand yet over you know, a decade
, then I did make choices tolook at pornography, to hook up

(23:47):
with other men, to pursuerelationships.
I made choices that furthercemented those feelings in.
And so we have to be carefuland not oversimplify.
And the false dichotomy is ofthey're either born that way or
they chose.
It is a false dichotomy.
That way oversimplifies thesecomplex issues.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, I think there's two sides of the coin here,
because for the non-believer,they think, because they're born
one way, that that's just theright way to go.
These are the conditions thatare inside of me.
We had Robbie L year on onetime.
Oh yeah, he talked a lot aboutdesires and he talked about how

(24:29):
we have desires in us that aregood, but we are bent and we
lean the wrong direction and wethink the desires are the
fulfillment of things.
We find satisfaction in thedesires.
God says give me the desires ofyour heart, you the desires of
your heart, you know.
So, um, at at the end of theday, I think summarizing what

(24:49):
you're saying is we are bornincorrect and I'm not the, I'm
not the king of analogies.
My wife will tell you I'm notgood at them.
So take it for what it is andyou guys can correct me if I'm
wrong.
But the way I kind of see it,we are not Calvinist.
So we, we, you know when I saythat we're born.
We are born dead, but itdoesn't mean that we're unable
to choose it.
The, the understanding is thatwe have these, we're born with

(25:10):
these desires, but we don'tunderstand because our
relationship is dead between usand Christ.
We no longer have arelationship with him, as Adam
walked in the in the garden withhim.
And so we have desires, but wedon't know how to hone them in
because A we don't have the HolySpirit, we are not filled and
indwelt by the Holy Spirit andour relationship with the one

(25:31):
true God is broken.
So these desires are just likethey're broken radars we don't
know how to direct them and leadthem in the right way, but we
have the moral compass.
We have God's laws written onour heart and so we work through
these things and God isgracious to minister to us.
And I'm sure you can, you canresonate with that, with being
raised in a Christian home andyou're, you're working.

(25:53):
I was younger because oflifestyles and things that were
around me since I was born.
I mean, it's just what wasaround my life.

(26:14):
But I had a choice to to saywhether I wanted to do these
things or not, and the analogykind of is like this cancer
inside of us.
You know we could, you can havea kid born with a cancer and if
the world was right that you'reborn the way it is and accept
it, why are we telling kids togo get cancer removed?
Why do we have St Jude'sHospital where they're

(26:37):
specializing in removing cancerfor children?
It's because we know that thatcancer is wrong and that they
were born with a nature thatcame from the fall of man.
I mean cancer is evil andit's's destructive and it's
deteriorating the body.
So in a sense, yeah, we areborn incorrect, but I get that

(26:58):
same.
And I want to flip this on theChristians.
The other side of that coin is,not only are unbelievers using
that as an excuse, but theChristians are often saying that
ones that are born again, onesthat are regenerated, ones that
do have the living God inside ofthem, they say, well, I'm just

(27:18):
a wild man and I don't know howto tame my tongue.
I'm like well, I'm pretty surethe scriptures talk about that
in James, how we're called to beslow to speak and tame that
tongue we are often defaultingto.
Well, it's just how I was born,I'm always going to be this way
.
I mean, I could tell you Ihated people before Christ.
I couldn't look you in the eyes, I refused to have a

(27:39):
conversation with you, and Godtotally changed my heart when I
came to him.
Now I love talking to people.
I always want to evangelize.
I'm out on the street withFlynn and my wife and we want to
reach people.
That's not me, that's the Lordthat changed my heart, and the
sooner we all realize that man,we will see a more fundamental
discipleship where we're like oh, this is actually the Lord

(28:03):
making us and refining us andequipping us, because we are his
worksmanship.
It's not of our own doing, andso that's a beautiful hope,
right?
I think that's what you'retalking about.
That's the hope that we have inChrist.
He gives us beautiful desires.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yes, Many times I complain to my wife about things
that I'm lacking, likediscipline, which is why I'm
trying to lose like 40 poundsbecause of lack of discipline.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
It's like we'll hold each other accountable.
Yes, that'd be great.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
And it's like, oh, I wish I had discipline.
And she's like, well, it is afruit of the spirit, so it's
definitely possible.
It's like, oh, yes, like Goddoes redeem and transform.
And you know, I think it'samazing that I get up in front
of people and talk.
You know I do 40 to 60 speakingengagements a year.

(28:54):
I was terrified of speaking infront of people.
In fact, I had 12 years ofspeech therapy because I
couldn't hardly talk.
And when I was in grade schoolI couldn't talk, no one could
understand me, and I was inspeech therapy all the time to
learn how to pronunciate andprocess sounds right.

(29:14):
And I always joked that Icouldn't even learn English and
I grew up in America because Ijust couldn't talk.
And so the Lord transforms usand renews us and restores us.
God is so good.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
I love how the Lord takes.
He says I think I'm going totake this guy who struggles with
speaking and I'll have himspeak 40 times a year, I think
so often we're all looking for.
We've heard it so many timeshow do I get into ministry, how
do I do this, how do I do that?
And I'm thinking it's reallynot about any of that, it's just

(29:52):
about loving the Lord andspeaking the truth and going
wherever he sends you, whetherit's in front of a million
people or in front of two, or infront of one or just in front
of him, you know.
But why don't we at this point?
Because we kind of interruptedI wanted to interject at that
point, brady just because Ithink a lot of people often
wonder okay, the issue ofwhether I'm born that way or not
, and I really do think theworld and the enemy wants us to

(30:14):
believe that.
I think part of the package ofthe lie that the enemy has for
us is you're just always goingto be this way.
And it's really to do two thingsNumber one, to keep us away
from the Lord, to keep usrunning in the direction that we
were going, and number two, toproduce the fruit of that is
hopelessness and despair andjust all of this, just darkness,

(30:35):
like where you were at at theyoung, you know, young teenager,
just hopeless, and then thatthat continuing to grow, and
then you start finding your hope, trying to find hope other
places instead of Christ.
So he wants that.
So the world's message is youare who you are, just you know.
Be the best you that you couldbe, you know, and it's like, no,
that's not.
That's not the message that Godhas for us.

(30:56):
He's our creator, he's the onewho knows so.
So I think I think that's justa good reminder for all of us,
no matter where we're at withwith the Lord, where we're at
with our sin, where we're atwith sanctification.
It doesn't have to be the wayit is.
It might feel like you can'tchange whether it's pornography,
homosexuality, whether it'sjust drugs, whether it's just

(31:18):
being mean in your family, beingself-centered.
Sometimes we struggle.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
And man it just feels like it's never, going to
change Anger our tongue and wecan become masters of just
controlling our environmentenough so that our sin isn't
revealed.
And so it's like, well, I'mgoing to take these off a

(31:48):
relationship with my family whoI don't like and they're toxic,
which is we hear way too much.
It's like, okay, then myheart's not revealed, and so
we're so good at managing ourcircumstances and our
environment so that what isactually going on in our heart
isn't revealed to the depth thatit would be otherwise revealed

(32:11):
to the depth that it would beotherwise.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
And often God uses our circumstances and the tough
circumstances in our lives torefine us.
And we spend a lifetime avoidingit through medication, through
just manipulation, throughcontrol, and what we're doing is
we're really cutting ourselvesoff from the refinement and the
humility that God wants toproduce in us and it's really
only then that he can shinethrough.
So we are in a culture, you know, post, I think, really a post

(32:33):
postmodern culture, that says,you know, hey, look, I'm going
to control my environment, Idon't want anything tough, I
want only comfortable things,only what's right for me,
whatever feels good, do it andbelieve it.
And you know, we're just in aworld now that's just telling us
that we don't have to gothrough tough times.
And really, christianity, whatyou're talking about, it's a
day-to-day trench environment,sometimes with our emotions and

(32:55):
our feelings and our desires,and taking it to the cross,
maybe moment by moment.
But at this point can you pickup where you left off in your
testimony?
Because I think I heard yourtestimony when Kyle sent me that
link and to me it was such ablessing to hear the
faithfulness of God throughfollowers of him.
Could you share kind of thatlast chunk of your testimony,

(33:17):
brady, because it didn't endthere.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Absolutely so I went off to college determined that I
just this is a chance to starta new life of living up the gay
life that you know it's acceptedon college campuses, even
though I went to a small collegein Nebraska where it's still
pretty underground.
It's like, well, this is mychance, get away from all these
small town people.

(33:40):
And I can, I can be happy thereliving the gay life.
And I pulled up to campus andto pull up to the dorms for the
very first time, to unload andmove into the dorm rooms, and
there's a group of guys standingthere who offered to help me
unload my stuff and I thoughtthat was the most amazing thing
ever.
And it was the typical churchcollege freshmen move-in

(34:03):
outreach that every church in acollege town does to help the
freshmen move in.
And so it was great.
And they invited me to aministry I met on Wednesday
nights.
So I actually went that firstWednesday night.
I wasn't walking with God.
I was pretty angry towards Godand towards Christians and what
kept going through, the questionI kept asking at that point in

(34:25):
life, was how could a loving Godcreate me in a way that's going
to condemn me to hell?
Because I felt like I was justmade this way and then I've told
that I'm going to hell for it.
So how can a loving God do that?
And the only answers I couldcome up to to answer that
question were either that God isnot a loving God or there's no
God at all.
And yet I still went to thisministry on Wednesday night

(34:49):
because they were inviting meand they'd shown me kindness and
at that point in our cultureit's still kind of socially
advantageous for people to thinkthat you're a Christian.
Now that's changed a lot, butat that time it was kind of this
cultural Christianity whereyou're looked upon highly if
people think that you're aChristian.

(35:09):
So I went the first Wednesdaynight.
I'm sure it was great.
I don't remember what theytalked about.
I'm sure the gospel waspreached, but at that point I
was so hard-hearted and bitterthat anytime I heard the gospel
I thought, oh, that doesn'tapply to me.
I'm too far gone, god can'tlove me.
I've already tried so hard andit's been so painful to go

(35:29):
through that process of tryingand fighting and working to be
acceptable to God and so I justcan't go there.
But I kept going on Wednesdaynights because of the
relationships I built there,these upperclassmen men who were
just investing in me.
They were pursuing me, theywere loving me, they were giving

(35:51):
me a community where I couldbelong, which is something that
I had craved so deeply, and Iwas finding that, on one hand,
in the LGBTQ community.
But then this group ofChristian guys was pursuing me
and giving me a community whereI could belong, and they would
ask me questions about my life,and I had enough Sunday school
background to regurgitate theanswers I thought they wanted to

(36:13):
hear.
But they knew that somethingwasn't adding up.
They could tell my life wasn'tbearing fruit, but they
continued to pursue me and loveme and God was using them to
soften my heart.
God was using them to show methat he loves me.
He was using them to show mewhat it looks like to be a
follower of Jesus, because theseweren't just like the

(36:34):
Christians I had grown up with,who put on a mask and pretended
like life was perfect and okay,but they were actually so real
and humble and authentic andopen about their own sin
struggles.
But they weren't just authenticfor the sake of authenticity.
They're authentic for the sakeof repentance, and so I could

(36:55):
see Jesus changing them from theinside out, and I was intrigued
by that because I'd never seenthat up close before.
And they just they keptpursuing me, including me, and
God was using it in remarkableways to show me a different
picture of Christianity and whohe is.
Then, at the same time, I wasgetting more and more involved

(37:16):
in the LGBTQ community on campus.
It's kind of something secret,not really out publicly
relationships with other men,and I kept pursuing it and part
of it felt great.
I remember waking up in themorning sometimes thinking I
can't go the rest of my daywithout fulfilling these desires
, and so I'd find a way to dothat and it was pretty easy to

(37:40):
do with the you know inventionof the internet, and part of it
felt great.
But then I just kept endingevery relationship more and more
heartbroken, and what thatworld would tell you is that,
well, you just need more of it.
You need more of theaffirmation, more freedom, more

(38:00):
sexual encounters, you need moreof everything and that will
finally make you satisfied.
But the more I had of it, themore I was just being left kind
of exhausted.
It was kind of like the hamsterwheel.
Picture the hamster on thewheel.
It's just going faster andfaster and it's just exhausted.
And that's where I felt like Iwas is absolutely exhausted.

(38:24):
And after my sophomore year Ifinally came to a place where I
was starting to acknowledge thatthis isn't doing for my soul
what it promised to do for mysoul.
It's not making me feel lovedthe way it's supposed to make me
feel loved.
Why am I not feeling loved?
Isn't that the whole purpose ofthis is to be loved?
And I'm not feeling loved.
But I didn't know where I wassupposed to go because I really

(38:47):
put all my hope in the promisethat that life will make me
happy and I always tell peoplethat coming out of the closet
for most people cliff kind ofdaydreaming, contemplating what

(39:11):
will it be like, what will Iexperience, what will people
think of me, how will my familyrespond, how will everyone
respond?
And then you finally do it andyou step off the cliff and it
feels like freedom for a while.
It feels like this rush, butthen it feels like it's
impossible to go back nowbecause I'm finally experiencing

(39:32):
this freedom that I was told Ineeded, and to go back and say
that I was wrong would be likethat those entire 10 years
leading up to taking that stepwould have been in vain.
All the suffering and wrestlingcoming to the place of finally
that step would have been invain.
All the suffering and wrestlingcoming to the place of finally
accepting it would have been fornothing.

(39:53):
So there's no going back now,and I think that leads to a lot
of hard heartedness and peoplewho have taken the step to
so-called come out as gay.
It's like it's stepping offthis cliff and there's no going
back.
But here I was.
It felt like I was crashing atthe bottom and at the same time,

(40:14):
I had these Christian friendswho are loving me, and I was.
I was just so intrigued by thatand it felt like I'm not
feeling loved by all these youknow, guys I'm hooking up with.
It seems like I'm just workingharder and harder to try to earn
this love from people and thisisn't the way it's supposed to
be.
And finally, I was at a placeof such deep depression and

(40:38):
having suicidal thoughts, and soI thought the one thing I put
my hope in is failing me.
So where can I actually haveany hope?
Is there any hope for this life?
And I was contemplating suicideand I didn't know what I was
going to do, and I decided that,before I entered my life, I
wanted to tell one of myChristian friends about the life

(40:59):
I was living, because I thoughtI'd done a pretty good job of
keeping it a secret.
No, I wasn't publicly out tothat group of friends, and so I
didn't think that they knewanything.
And what was going through mymind was that I'm going to tell
my friends, and when they rejectme, that's going to be the
proof that they don't actuallylove me.
They love the person they thinkI am.

(41:20):
They love the image I'veportrayed to them.
But if they knew what was goingon inside of me, there's no way
that my Christian friends wouldstill love me.
And so I finally got up thecourage.
I told my friend, lex, and hewas one of the guys involved in
the campus ministry.
I'll never forget this moment.
We're in my stepdad's house andI had a gun loaded in my room
and I said when he rejects me,that's just going to be the

(41:42):
affirmation I need that no oneloves me and I'm going to end my
life.
Well, I'm still standing heretoday.
So obviously, lex didn't rejectme.
Instead, he came across theroom, gave me this big hug and
said hey, man, I love you.
Your sin is no better or worsethan my sin, and I don't know
what it's going to look like,but it's going to be okay
because God's grace issufficient and we're going to

(42:04):
get through this together.
Yeah, praise God, praise theLord.
And I've told that story aboutLex hundreds of times, and it
was just a moment that Godcompletely softened my heart and
I couldn't get that out of mymind For three days.
What I kept thinking was thatcan't be Lex who loves me.

(42:27):
That has to be the Jesus I seein him who loves me.
Because I could see Jesus atwork in his life.
And he took me to church thatweekend church in small town,
nebraska and great church.
And the message was on God'sgrace.
And for the first time I becameconvinced that I think that
God's grace applies to me too.

(42:47):
I think that it's sufficientfor me.
Me too, I think that it'ssufficient for me.
And for the first time Istarted to actually believe that
I think that God's grace is forme too.
I think that God can still loveme despite this life I've been
living.
And so, because for the firsttime I became convinced of that
I finally surrendered my life toJesus for the first time.

(43:10):
June 21st 2006,.
I fell to my knees andsurrendered to Christ and you
know, I'd always called myself.
Well, most of the time I calledmyself a Christian.
I'd kind of given up on thatthe last couple of years of my,
you know, when I was in college.
But so many times I calledmyself a Christian when I was in
high school I'd done all theright things I prayed, I prayed,

(43:30):
I prayed, I begged God, just totake it away.
But one of the things I realizedwas that my faith had just been
my demands on God.
It had been my own terms andconditions, me telling God all
right, god, I'll follow you, butI demand that you take away my
attraction towards men.
All right, god, I'll follow you, but I demand that you take

(43:50):
away my attraction towards men,that you make me attracted to
women, that you give me a bighouse and a white picket fence
and the whole American dream.
That's what my demand is.
But for the first time I was aplace of surrender where I said
all right, god, I don't carewhat it takes, I don't care who
I have to tell, I don't carewhat I have to do, I don't care
what it costs me.
I trust that you love me andthat love is enough, and I
surrender everything to you.

(44:11):
And that's the moment that Ibelieve I truly gave my life to
Jesus, because I was at a placeto surrender and I believe that
his grace was sufficient for metoo.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Man, there's so much that I resonate with your
testimony, totally on adifferent spectrum.
But I mean, god ministersthrough those situations and I'm
so, I'm so grateful to seecause you started out with
pointing out the hypocrisy orthe incorrect message from the
Christian church.
You know, and um, giving thebenefit of the doubt.

(44:47):
I don't know the church andtheir heart of their intent, of
the things that they were tryingto tell you.
I know that my wife and Flynnand I, we have preached at the
Super Bowl when it's here inArizona and the Westboro Baptist
Church was out there at thesame time as us, if you're
familiar with the WestboroBaptist, Church they're quite
aggressive and they have thesigns that say God hates

(45:09):
homosexuals, and they have quitevulgar things.
And so, man, when they were outthere, the cops actually had
them fenced in because they weregoing to get jumped.
You know, like people are justvery hostile towards the way
that they approach sharing, andso we stood right outside their
fence and there were people inlines going flocks by, and the

(45:35):
best way to minister to them wassaying we're not with them.
We have the message of hope.
They're telling you half truth,because the fact of the matter
is God hates.
I mean we can look at thescriptures.
I mean you've pointed it out inyour video several times when
you look at 1 Corinthians 6,like it has a lot of other

(45:56):
things it identifies before iteven gets to sexual immorality.
I mean we are all falling shorton this list of things that are
destructive and sending us tohell.
And John 3 is pretty clear wego to hell because of our
disbelief and not believing inthe sun.
It's not because, you know,it's not because of an

(46:19):
individual sin.
It's because we cling toself-idolization and we are
committed.
That's one thing that I reallywant to highlight that you
focused on and I think it may begood for the viewers, because I
have seen the destructivenessof pride and I'm not saying that

(46:41):
ironically or trying to becliche because of Pride Month,
shay, because of Pride Month, itreally does hone in on the
heart of the matter that it ismy identity, that I am consumed
with the fact that this is who Iam, this persona, this
character, and if I don't giveinto it then it must not be me.

(47:04):
And so you were constantlychasing this identity, this
affirmation, this community, andI don't know that lifestyle in
that community, but I do know areally close father figure of
mine.
He struggled with diabetes.
He struggled with lots of pridein an arrogant sense, really

(47:28):
good man in my life, but he gotto a really hard point in his
life where he did commit suicidebut he had threatened himself
for he had threatened his familyfor hours I mean we're talking
eight hours and it came to apoint where he I remember
talking to him on the phonewhere he was committed that

(47:49):
because he was surrounded by thepolice officers I'm not giving
the whole context, but therewere police outside his house
and he was just like.
I have no other choice.
This is what I got to gothrough with, and I feel like
that's what most people aredoing, whether homosexual or
whatever the sin is, becausethey think they're so rooted
into this characterization ofwho they are that they have to

(48:12):
go through with it, otherwiseeveryone's going to call them
out.
For you know, how dare you notbe who you are, how dare you
disregard that, and is thatsomething that you think that
that's pretty common in thiscommunity?
Do you think that was yourself?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Oh, absolutely, and we live in a culture where I
love Carl Truman he does a lotof work in this area where our
culture believes the foundationof our humanity is expressing
whatever is inside of ourselves.
So, whatever we're feeling, themore we express it, the more
human we are, and that's one ofthe big whys that we believe.

(48:55):
And so, really at the heart ofPride Month, what I see is this
doubling down on I am my own Godand I'm going to celebrate me
being God, and I'm going tocelebrate me being God, and
that's at the heart of what Isee all month long in pride is
this celebration of I'm going tobe my own God.

(49:17):
I'm going to define myself.
I'm defined by whatever myheart is feeling instead of
being defined by who Christ mademe to be.
And so our identity should berooted in something so much
greater than our own ficklehearts, because our hearts are
deceitful.
But, according to the world, ourheart is where we get our

(49:39):
humanity, and whatever we'refeeling in the moment defines us
and makes us more human, andthat's such a lie that the world
buys into.
And then we see, and thosepeople, it's like their heart
changes so quickly and so it'slike their whole identity.
Their life is built on suchshifting sand because it's not a

(50:01):
firm foundation.
And that's where I did aresponse video the other day
with this girl talking about howyour gender can change.
With the seasons.
You might have a differentgender in the fall Fluid gender
yeah.

(50:23):
Yeah, that is that this is suchshifting sand that something as
intricate and to the core of whoGod made you to be is actually
based on something so temporaryas what you're feeling in this
season, and that is what isdefining your gender, instead of

(50:44):
something that God made in youthat can never change because he
made it good and it's likethat's such a much better place
to have our hope and to have ouridentity.
But we see during Pride Monththat I am my own God and we
celebrate that.
We double down on that andbecause of our hearts are

(51:08):
deceitful, that can come out inso many different ways and
therefore I define my feelings,define who I am and what I do.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, yeah, flynn, I want to bring up one thing.
Just before we I know I reallywant to we were talking about
getting into 2 Corinthians fiveand I think that really
highlights every listener kindof the direction that we could
go with this and and the hopethat we have.
This is something that justcame up in my head because you
were talking a lot aboutsatisfaction and you were

(51:39):
talking about just kind of likethat quench that you always like
the, the thirst, not thequenching, but you had this
thirst of like nonstop.
Just I've got to satisfy thisdesire and like I'll do what it
takes, I'll get on the internetand this is something that I've
got to continually do and I'msure that's a temptation.

(52:00):
Whatever the sin is that peopleare watching right now, they
just feel like this, like urgingconstant, devastating emotion,
and it's because the world doesnot sell satisfaction.
We've talked about that on thisa lot, but I'm thinking about 1
John, 2, 2.
This was a game changer versefor me when I came to the Lord.

(52:21):
I remember reading on this.
It says and he himself is thepropitiation for our sins, and
not for ours only, but for thewhole world, which means and for
those that are watching thathave no idea that's a huge Bible
word, right?
When you hear that and Iremember when I first read that
I was like what is propitiation?
I couldn't even say it.
Propitiation you want to talkabout like struggling with the

(52:44):
English language, like I'm rightthere with you, I feel like
we're twinsies on that.
One, buddy, I read that word andI remember listening to a
preacher and he explained it tome about how that means the full
satisfaction for our sins.
So you could read it as he,jesus, he himself, is the full
satisfaction for our sins, whichmeans that never-ending thirst

(53:08):
that you have.
It's because you're not finding.
It's like Billy Graham says youhave that God-shaped hole in
your heart and it will never befulfilled until you find that
full eternal rest in your Saviorand that can only come through
the one, the true Jesus Christ,messiah.
That is the only one that cansatisfy the soul and that goes

(53:32):
for the sinner that's constantlylonging for that hope.
I mean it's there and it'sready.
He's knocking on the door andI'm telling you right now.
I hear Brady saying it.
I know Flynn could tell youthrough his testimony and every
Christian that's watching herewill share with you if they're
faithful, to explain the truth.
You know if you're longing forthis like just satisfaction, you

(53:56):
will find it in Christ, and sosearch for him with all your
heart and you will find him.
That is a promise a hundredpercent guaranteed every time he
promises to be there for it.
So I just felt compelled tokind of share that with as well.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Absolutely so I think .
Why don't I share just a littlebit about how God really then
led me away and ended uptransforming my heart over the
next few months and years, andnow it's been almost two decades
, which seems crazy, like I'mgetting old and losing, uh, and
losing hair, and so you guysknow how that goes.
Uh, yes.

(54:33):
And so you know that summer Icame to know Jesus, and I think
the picture people have in theirmind of those moments is like
oh, my issues are gone.
You know, my temptations aregone.
Life is perfect now, and we allknow that life as a Christian

(54:54):
can still be hard.
I was on fire for Jesus.
I was convinced that he lovesme.
I told the rest of my Christiancommunity.
They responded with just asmuch love and grace as Lex had,
which was really remarkable,because it's like this was 20
years ago, almost in small town,nebraska.
These guys knew nothing aboutsexuality.

(55:15):
They didn't know anyone elsewho was gay.
It was not a public thing, andyet what they did know is that
God's word has the answers foreverything in life, and so they
were reading scripture with me,they were praying with me, they
were praying with me, they wereencouraging me and those first
few months I had a lot of stuffbuilt up that I really needed to

(55:37):
share a lot of dysfunction, alot of hurt, a lot of pain and
there was a whole lot ofemotional vomiting going on to
those friends.
And so most of us have had afriend like that.
If not, we've been that friendand they listened and they love
me and they encouraged me somuch and they're still

(55:57):
struggling because I still had alot of these feelings towards
men.
And so what was I going to dowith that?
And I was asking questions likewell, maybe I can go on and
continue to live as gay and, youknow, maybe it'll be different
now that I know Jesus, my savior, is my ultimate fulfillment.
Now maybe I could be happyliving that life.
But then these guys were readingwith me scripture and as I look

(56:19):
through scripture, from Genesisto Revelation, I look how God
created humans and what hecreated us for and what he
created marriage for.
And I was reading passages likein first Peter where it says be
holy as I am holy, and Icouldn't find any justification
to continue to live that life.
And so by the end of the summerI was convinced I have to walk
away from homosexuality.

(56:41):
This isn't who I am.
This isn't who God created meto be.
But how was I going to do that?
Because I tried under my ownpower.
But now I had the Holy Spiritin me for the first time and I
became convinced I can live adifferent life.
And 1 Corinthians 6, verses 9and 10, talks about a whole list
of sins and includinghomosexuality, and it seemed

(57:04):
like those two verses were theonly ones I'd heard growing up
and it was only pointed towardsthe homosexual community.
Of course it wasn't about thegreedy or drunk lords or
swindlers or all those things.
It was always towards thehomosexuals.
But for some reason I'd neverheard verse 11.
And either it was never readwith the rest of the passage or

(57:28):
I was just too hard-hearted tohear it.
But verse 11 says, and suchwere some of you but you are
washed, you are sanctified, youare justified in the name of the
Lord, jesus Christ and by theSpirit of our God.
And for the first time I hadhope.
I realized oh man, that's whatthey were, but they're no longer
that in past tense, and I hadhope that I could live a

(57:49):
different life.
So for the first time I hadthis hope and by the end of the
summer I'd walked away from theLGBTQ community and sexual
encounters and I was gettingcontrol over my pornography
addiction for the first time andI was living such a different
life.

(58:09):
But I always want to be clearabout the transformation that I
had in my life that summer,because I always feel like the
goal that Christians have forpeople like me is that to
convince us to go from gay tostraight.
It's like right, that's what wewant.
It's like I get those questionshow do I convince this person
that my nephew that being gay iswrong and I want him to be

(58:30):
straight.
I hear that from parents allthe time.
But my transformation wasn'tfrom gay to straight.
My transformation was from lostto saved, and so it's like that
was so remarkable that Godactually stepped into my soul
and he rescued me for aneternity.
And it was out of thattransformation that I started to
live a different life, becauseI was growing my relationship

(58:52):
with Jesus.
I was finding the satisfactionin him, like you talked about
with propitiation, and it's likeI was being fully satisfied
with Christ.
So I don't need that anymore.
I don't need that.
I don't have to be controlledby it.
I have hope for the first timethat I can live a different life
, and now I have the power ofthe Holy Spirit in me, which I
didn't have as a non-believer.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Yep, totally Well.
Here's what I'm wondering too.
Well, kyle, why don't you readthe second Corinthians verse,
because you referenced it before, but I don't know if we read
that one.
I know, brady, you talked aboutthere with chapter 6.
Was that 1 Corinthians youreferenced there?

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Brady, yes, that's 1 Corinthians chapter 6.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah, so that one.
I know that verse 11 is reallywhere the hope is at.
That's the whole thrust of thatchapter.
Yes, absolutely.
That's what you were, that'swhat we were, but when we're
born again, God doesn't see usthat way.
We don't have to walk In Romans.
It talks about the motions ofsin.
We do not have to walk anymorein those motions, in those

(59:52):
patterns.
But in 2 Corinthians, as I washearing your testimony and
talking to Kyle about it too,this one came to my mind.
I know to his too, Kyle, whydon't you go ahead and read it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah.
So in 2 Corinthians 5, startingat 14, it says for the love of
Christ compels us, because wejudge thus that if one died for
all, then all died and he diedfor all.
That those who live should liveno longer for themselves, but
for him, who died for them androse again.
Therefore, from now on, weregard no one according to the

(01:00:24):
flesh, even though we have knownChrist according to the flesh,
yet now we know him thus.
No to the flesh, yet now weknow him thus no longer.
Therefore, if anyone is inChrist, he is a new creation and
old things have passed away.
Behold, all things have becomenew.
Now, all things are of God andhas reconciled us to himself
through Jesus.
Christ has given us theministry of reconciliation, that

(01:00:47):
is, that God was in Christ,reconciling the world to himself
, not imputing their trespassesto them, and committed to us the
word of reconciliation.
It's a mouthful, it's all yours, Flynn.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
No, that's great.
I'm going to read those lasttwo verses.
I can't help it, buddy, this isjust I'm compelled man.
Verse 20, it says Now, then, weare ambassadors for Christ, as
though God were pleading throughus.
We implore you I mean, justthink of those words he's using
Implore you on Christ's behalf.
Be reconciled to God.

(01:01:20):
That's what you're talkingabout, brady.
It's not about from gay tostraight.
It's not about drinking tonon-drinking.
It's not about lustful life tonon-lustful life or pornography
to non-pornography.
Those are all the fruits ofwhat really needs to happen and
that's being reconciled to Godhere.
And then verse 21,.
For he made him that's Jesus,who knew no sin to be sin for us

(01:01:40):
, that we might become therighteousness of God in him.
And this, to me, is justsomething, even, as you know, as
believers who are very familiarperhaps with this chapter just
going through it now, it justreminds me.
I need to get back to this overand over and over, just to
remind myself.
I'm an ambassador of Christ andwe we were going to have on

(01:02:02):
somebody and hopefully we canstill get them on a little bit
later but they were.
They have a whole teaching onthe ambassador of Christ's
message and that's what we are,these Christians.
In your little town of Nebraskayou said, well, they didn't
know about sexuality, but youknow what.
They knew the God who did, does.
They know the God who does.
And so I think we've made it socomplicated with some of the

(01:02:25):
psychology and the other thingsbehind things.
Yeah, okay, it might be good toknow a thing or two about a
thing or two, but when it allboils down to it, god's Word is
sufficient.
So if we know God's Word, thenwe are equipped to handle
99.99999% of what's going on inmost people's lives.
And if we're not equipped, mygoodness, god will equip us.

(01:02:45):
And if we have to run, if we, ifwe have to run first to the
world to get equipped for soulissues, I think I think we're
doing, doing the church andbelievers a disservice for sure.
That's why we that's part ofwhy we're here as a ministry,
and I know that's why you'rethere too is just simply, we're
all saying the same thing Goback to Jesus man, run to his

(01:03:10):
word, trust his word, stoptrusting in this world, and you
will find hope.
And I love that.
That first verse reminded methere that we read but the love
of Christ compels us.
The love of Christ is what Iheard in your testimony was, I
think, of Romans 2,.
I think what is it in chapter 2, maybe how the goodness of God
led us to repentance.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Yeah, it leads me to repentance, and I love that
passage.
Oh go ahead, go ahead, no, no.
I love in that passage thatChrist died for all and so I
really pray that as we gothrough Pride Month and we can
get so frustrated that when wesee these people posting and we
see the depravity that, like man, like Christ died for that

(01:03:46):
person and there's hope for thatperson.
And I think that sometimes wedon't interact with people
expecting that there is hope inChrist for this person and we
think that with these issuesthey're just too far gone and
they're beyond hope.
And so I often ask Christiansand kind of challenge them would

(01:04:07):
you see someone who's livingthe LGBTQ life now this month,
you know, maybe celebratingpride on social media?
What is your prayer for them?
What are you believing for them?
What is it that you're trustingthat God can do in their life?
Because I think a lot ofChristians academically would
say, oh yeah, I believe that Godcan transform any life.

(01:04:28):
Academically would say, oh yeah, I believe that God can
transform any life, but in theirheart they're not actually
believing that.
For the individuals that theysee Maybe it's their nephew who
came out as gay, maybe it'stheir coworker who's gay or
transgender, or their neighbornext door who's a same-sex
couple.
It's like what are you prayingfor them, what are you believing
for them, what is your hope forthem?

(01:04:49):
Are you truly believing thatGod can change their life?
And then are you playing yourpart as the ambassador of Christ
in their life?
And so I think that wouldchange how we interact and see
people, if we truly understoodthe hope that they can have in
Christ.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Yeah, and we have that responsibility and that's
one thing that I think we needto recognize for the
circumstance regarding thesethings.
I mean the reality is and don'tget me wrong, I love street
evangelism, I love theopportunities to hit strangers
up and talk to them, but thereality is is there are so many

(01:05:33):
people that we have immediateinfluences in, and I could
probably count I think we're upto a handful now in my family
with these same situations,whether same sex or
transitioning or these differentthings, and it's a long-term
mission field and I'm sure youcould probably resonate with

(01:05:56):
that.
It's not an immediate one dayconversation, it's a long-term
living out the sanctified lifeby the Holy Spirit.
And I'll tell you after I meanit's probably going on 10 years
with the oldest one that I'vebeen seeing this in our life,
being the ones that are alwaysavailable to them when the hurt

(01:06:19):
and sorrow comes, because thestorms come.
I mean you were talking aboutshifting sands.
That's literally what Jesussays that you're building your
house on the sands and when thestorms come, it washes it away
and destroys your home.
But those that build theirhouse on the rock us as
Christians, we that are rootedand grounded in God's word.
It's not to say I told you so.

(01:06:40):
It's not to say ha ha, I'm theone that survived the storm.
It's the one to say hey, I havea house available for you to
come in, and it's rooted on thecornerstone, the chief
cornerstone, which is Christ.
And I want this is.
And they will make those calls,and we have to be wise, a
serpent, gentle as doves, andready to speak.
You know we were talking aboutColossians four before we hit

(01:07:02):
record.
But it says knowing how weought to answer a man.
It says knowing how we ought toanswer a man, we need to be
steadily available because itmay be hurtful.
I just heard this testimony ofsomeone in our Bible study.
This older man he had anadopted son that walked away
from the family went through atransitioning we're talking cut

(01:07:25):
out of the life because hethought the parents hated him,
because he didn't accept him forwho he was.
We're going on.
Eight or nine years later, hegot a phone call literally a
month ago and said dad, I missyou, I want to talk to you and
I'm detransitioning.
Wow, that is reality.
I mean, these things don'tsatisfy.

(01:07:47):
And so, for those that arelistening, we understand and we
are available.
I know Brady's available.
You can reach out to hisministry and he's a real person,
he's not just some YouTube starthat doesn't respond to emails.
Literally, reach out to us,comment on here, private message

(01:08:07):
us, and we're not here to pointa finger.
We're here to be available andsay hey look, we're beggars too.
We're just as hungry as you andwe know where the bread is.
We know where the joy and thestrength comes from, and it's
not from men, it's not from thetemporal things of this world,
because the whole ministry oncelost.

(01:08:29):
We truly believe that ourministry is rooted on Titus 3.3.
For we ourselves were oncefoolish, disobedient, deceived,
serving various lusts, but whenthe kindness and the love of God
, our Savior, toward menappeared, not by works of
righteousness, which we havedone, but according to his mercy
, he saved us.
That's what we're trying toshare and the believers watching

(01:08:51):
this don't forget that.
Don't forget where you camefrom when you're having these
conversations, and I reallyappreciate your heart on that,
brady, pointing those things outAbsolutely, I like to point out
, during.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Pride Month, that the opposite of pride is humility.
I like to point out duringPride Month, that the opposite
of pride is humility, and sothat should be what we are
responding with is humility of.
I'm not any better or worsethan you.
I've just found the livingwater and I don't have to thirst

(01:09:25):
any longer, not because ofanything I did, because of what
Christ has done in me.
And so we need to respond withhumility and love and grace.
And our response should be oneof mourning mourning that people
have been deceived, mourningthat they have not yet believed
in a way that has led them torepentance.
And then what is our part intheir life?

(01:09:45):
How can we interact with themin a way that's going to further
soften their heart and build arelationship so that when their
sin does fail them because sinalways fails us eventually that
we're the person they run to?
So you already pointed that out, that this is a long game, and
I walk alongside families thathave been dealing with this for

(01:10:05):
a decade and they're stillmournfully hoping and praying
that their child will come torepentance.
And it is a long game.
And how do I build arelationship so that they'll run
to me or they'll remember thetruth that I instilled in them
when their sin does fail them.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Yep them when their sin does fail them.
Yep, yeah.
And I think for those familiesthat are going through those
challenges, they are verypersonal, very, very devastating
sometimes and the enemy also, Ithink, wants to get in there
and create hopelessness, evenfor those believers that are
watching family members andloved ones going through that.
I'm sure there's guilt andthere's other things that

(01:10:46):
probably we all try to put on,but Lord reminds us all we walk
by faith, not by sight.
So we need to trust in Him.
We need to walk in victory.
You know the Lord already hasthe victory on the cross.
We simply have to walk in Hispower and newness of life and
often that takes the community,the body, and I mean the times

(01:11:09):
we live.
It's easy to just I mean, we'rea YouTube channel and I know you
have a YouTube ministry as welland podcast ministries and
other things.
So it's easy to do the digitalstuff which we do because it's
available to us, but there'snothing to replace that
one-on-one, that personal time.
But there's nothing to replacethat one-on-one, that personal
time, but also time with theLord, but also time in his body.

(01:11:30):
Find a good fellowship.
I know it might be harder tofind these days than other times
, but pray for a good fellowshipof believers that you can lean
on and bear one another'sburdens and pray with each other
.
Whether you're going throughthese things personally or
through watching somebody elsego through them, I don't forget
that part of it.
And then the world just has waytoo many distractions for us.

(01:11:53):
I know a lot of people say,well, sunday's my only relaxing
day, sunday's the day I get allmy little jobs done or I watch
football or whatever, and justdon't have time for church.
We have time for what we maketime for it's priorities, just
don't have time for church.
We have time for what we maketime for, it's priorities, and

(01:12:15):
taking that time off is soimportant to find a good, godly
church that teaches the word ofGod week by week, and we need to
find that fellowship as well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
A lot of these sin issues come with a lot of
burdens to bear and so we needto be willing to bear people's
burdens with them.
And we live such individuallives here in America and that
bleeds into the church and so weneed to understand that people
are running to the gay communitybecause they can find belonging

(01:12:44):
and acceptance and so manytimes like that life that is
24-7 for them, like that's theircommunity, who they live with
and do life with and havefellowship with, and it's like
man, like we as Christiansshould be so much more than that
as a sense of belonging.
And I love Rosaria Butterfield,who also has a great testimony

(01:13:07):
of leaving the homosexual life.
Her book on hospitality, calledthe Gospel, comes with a House
Key and the whole premise is ifI'm going to share the gospel
with someone, they can be a partof my family and they get a key
to my house and I'm going tolove them and bear their burdens
with them and invite them in,because we don't just hand them

(01:13:34):
the gospel and say, all right,here's the hope, now go do your
thing with.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Jesus, it's like good luck.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
It's like no, come be a part of my life, Live in my
house with me if you need to,because you might need some 24 7
community and a family to loveyou right now.
And yeah, yeah, that's what somany lost sinners need
especially.
And then a new believer who isgiving up everything.

(01:14:01):
And I think we need to havecompassion towards the lgbtq
community when we're callingthem for repentance.
We're calling them to give upso much and obviously we believe
it's worth it.
But it's their community, it'stheir identity, it's the people
who they belong with such a deep, deep understanding of each

(01:14:24):
other.
But our understanding of eachother as fellow believers should
be so much deeper than that,and I think sometimes we try to
push you know, the strugglersoff onto like, oh well, here's
this guy over there who he leftthat to so he understands, and
it's like no, like you, as theirlocal church should be able to

(01:14:47):
walk alongside them.
And I saw in my own life thebiggest impact even though it
was really refreshing to findsome guys who had also struggled
the biggest impact on my lifethrough all these years has been
just normal, straight guys inthe church who love me for who I

(01:15:09):
am, and it's like oh, we don'tcompletely understand what
you're dealing with or what yourtemptations are, but that's
okay.
Like, come be a part of ourcommunity.
And we're all men here.
And those guys in the churchhave had by far the biggest
impact on me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Those guys in the church have had by far the
biggest impact on me.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think wehave to necessarily understand
everybody's mindset, everybody'sstruggles.
We're all human, we allstruggle, we all are
self-centered.
So you could say generally, weall can understand one another,
the specifics.
God might call somebody to getthat encouragement.
Or sometimes I think and thisis one of the questions I wanted

(01:15:49):
to give you, brady, but I don'tknow if this is the time or not
Kyle, did you have somethingbefore?
I had a question I wanted toask him really quick.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Go for it, man.
I do have one thing I want tomake sure, but we always apply
evangelism, so at some point Iwant to get practical sense.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
But, yeah, evangelism .
So at some point I want to getpractical sense.
But, yeah, go for it, okay.
So I was thinking, brady, too,like okay, so let's say I'm in
your shoes, so to speak, maybeabout 25 years ago and I'm just
struggling with all these things, or maybe I just came out of
that lifestyle and I'm listeningto maybe yourself or other
people online, but I don't havea bunch of people around me to
encourage me.
Are there some practical thingsother than, obviously, praying,
staying in the word?
We're talking about that.
We're encouraging people toreach out to us.

(01:16:33):
If they want to, we're happy totalk to them.
I know you are too, but arethere practical things day to
day that you found helpful?
And I know it's going to bedifferent for different people,
but generally speaking, is thereanything that you find that you
might encourage people with?

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Yeah, gosh, I needed community.
So fight for community, fightfor relationships, although
people are always going to letyou down, and I see that as kind
of a downfall of guys who aredealing with same-sex attraction
.
Maybe they've left thehomosexual life.

(01:17:09):
So many times we transfer theidols that we have as
nonbelievers to idols withinside the church, and so so
many times I see guys try tofind their hope through men in
the church.
I'm like I just need loved bythem and I need accepted by them
, and we should all seek to loveand accept other guys.

(01:17:32):
But so many times, man, the onlyperson who is not going to fail
us is Jesus.
So other Christians will alwaysfail us, and so if our hope is
in them, then we're going to beleft disillusioned towards God's
people.
Our hope is in them, then we'regoing to be left disillusioned
towards God's people, and so ourhope is in Jesus, and because
of that, we can have deepfellowship and community with

(01:17:54):
inside the church, with God'speople, and we can love them as
they're imperfect, as they loveus and our imperfection.
And so turn to Jesus as the onlyone who's going to not fail you
and not let you down, becausehe's the only one who will.

(01:18:14):
And then our relationships inthe church are worth fighting
for and they're worth workingthrough.
We hurt each other and we saythings that we shouldn't say,
and we're going to disappointeach other, and we're not going
to perfectly love one another,but fight through that.
It's worth it for the sake ofcommunity and fellowship with
God's people, and rest in thefact that Jesus knows you, jesus

(01:18:38):
understands you, he knowseverything about you and he
loves you, and and that, uh,that's what, that's the solid
foundation we build um our faithon, and then that enables us to
love the body of Christ, tolove our community, even when
they can't fully understand usand when they let us down

(01:19:01):
sometimes too.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Yeah, Good, good reminders, man Very good
reminders.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Yeah, and it's funny because I I mean, the question I
was going to ask is is kind ofon the other side of that.
It was the exact same framing,but more so from the from the
church's perspective is I knowthe very blatant things that are
going wrong in in in theculture today.
You know we're embracing thesethings for the sake of

(01:19:27):
compromise, for the sake ofwelcoming them into the door,
and I don't think that's trulyloving, and so I think the
question really comes to how canwe be clear?
The scriptures are clear.
We need to let the word reallypresent itself and we just need
to give people the word, sopeople that are watching, and we
just need to give people theword, so people that are

(01:19:47):
watching.
I'm sorry that people havemisconstrued what the scriptures
say, maybe for the sake of justbridge building or something
like that, but the scripturesare clear, and maybe that's a
conversation for another timehow clear they are.
But I think, just for the sakeof this conversation, where are
we failing?
Beside that, what are thethings that we're doing that are

(01:20:11):
not loving, scripturally loving, that we are not doing
correctly, whether on socialmedia or in our relationships,
and what are the things that wecould be doing that are more
biblically loving, you know,from the Christian side.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Great question.
I think just a practical aspectwhen we know people who are
struggling whether they'rebelievers now and trying to walk
with God or they're notbelievers is focusing on more
than just their sexuality.
Like someone needs Jesus forway more than their sexuality.

(01:20:47):
That's not who they are, eventhough they might define
themselves by that.
Every individual is made inGod's image.
They're so much more than theirsexuality.
So I think one of the mistakeswe make in trying to reach out
to someone is that we think thattheir sexuality is the only
thing that needs fixed, and manytimes, like we talked about so

(01:21:09):
times, the goal is to try toconvince them to be straight.
It's like, well, being straightisn't what sends someone to
heaven, and so it's knowingJesus is what sends someone to
heaven, and the transformationof their sexuality is going to
come as a result of knowingChrist.
And so we make the mistake ofjust focusing on that one issue,
when they need Jesus for everyarea of their life, and many

(01:21:32):
times, as we're in relationshipwith someone, it might be other
areas of their life wherethey're softened to their need
for Jesus first, where there'smore open doors.
And so you know sometimes youknow, I had a parent the other
day with a non-believing childwho's gay.

(01:21:53):
It's like man, like my childjust doesn't want to talk to me
and it's like, no, obviously,every time I talk to them, I
talk to them about theirsexuality because they need to
know the truth, right?
It's like you don't have tomake every conversation about
that one sin issue.
It's like that's why they don'twant to talk to you.
It's like I mean like I hadanother conversation with a mom

(01:22:16):
who daughter is a lesbian, andthe mom was like I'm just so
frustrated that it's likenothing is changing.
And you know, I just spent mydaughter's birthday with her and
with her, and, of course, everytime I'm with her, I tell her
that her lifestyle is a sin,because that's the truth.
It's like maybe the truth sheneeded to hear that day was that

(01:22:36):
she's loved.
Maybe the truth she needed tohear that day was that you're
proud of her.
Maybe you could have called outsome greatness.
She knows what you believeabout sexuality and we shouldn't
deny the truth.
But that one aspect of truthdoesn't need to be the aspect of
truth we share in every singleconversation with an unrepentant

(01:22:57):
sinner, and so we have to bewise about what truth do they
need to hear on this day?
What truth is going to softentheir heart?
You know, and one of thepassages of scripture I go to
all the time is Ephesians 4.29,where it says let no corrupting
talk come out of your mouth, butonly such as is good for

(01:23:21):
building up as fits the occasion, that gives grace to those who
hear.
And so we need to talk aboutthese issues in a way that gives
grace to those who hear.
And so we need to talk aboutthese issues in a way that gives
grace to those who hear.
Then use discernment on whatfits the occasion.
What communication, what truthdo I share at this point, in
this moment, that is going tobuild this person up, that's

(01:23:44):
going to give them hope?
And I think that if we trulyapplied that, we'd see that, you
know, their sexuality and theirbehavior is an outward symptom
of deeper heart level issues.
So what are those heart levelissues?
What lies are they believing?
And many times we can focus onthose deeper heart level issues

(01:24:08):
and not just the outwardsymptoms.
And that doesn't mean that weignore the outward symptoms when
we have opportunity to talkabout it, but we should
sometimes focus on, maybe, whatare some other areas where
they're softened to their needfor Jesus.
What lies are at the heart ofthe lifestyle they're living,

(01:24:30):
and we can sometimes speak intothat.
I see so many people dealingwith sexuality where they have
sexual abuse in their past, theyhave insecurities, they have so
many lies that they've believed, and so sometimes I can
minister to them without talkingjust about their sexuality and

(01:24:51):
the lifestyle they're living.
But what lies have you believedabout yourself and about God
and about the world?
And now let's trade those liesfor God's truth.
And the uh, the, the sexualitypiece is the outward symptom of
so many deep heart level lies,and so we can sometimes focus on

(01:25:13):
other areas and not just thisone outworking of the many lies
that they've believed.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
Sure, yeah, I mean, out of the abundance of the
heart, the mouth speaks and Ithink sometimes we focus too
much on the words and theactions instead of recognize
it's all stemming and brewingfrom a bigger issue and
something Flynn says a lot thatalways sticks with me the heart
of the matter is the matter ofthe heart and so that, just that
, ever since the first time I'veheard him say that, it just

(01:25:43):
like kind of stews in my brainwhen I'm sitting there thinking
about my own personal issuesbefore the Lord, I'm like man,
god, you know, it really doesjust stem down to something that
I'm unwilling to surrender toyou, and we as Christians really
need to be more understandingof how that works with an
unbeliever.
We are Christians and westruggle with our own sin nature

(01:26:05):
currently.
We are Christians and westruggle with our own sin nature
currently.
And here we are trying to holdthe world accountable, making
them saying, hey, they need togo live a straight lifestyle and
do these things when we'restill.
You know, it's the whole plankin the eye.
It's not saying don't removethe speck out of theirs, but
it's saying hey, first take theplank out of yours because
you're still struggling withsome stuff of theirs, but it's
saying, hey, first take theplank out of yours because
you're still struggling withsome stuff.

(01:26:27):
And I think of John 1.14, whenyou're talking about sharing the
whole truth and being wise inhow to share.
It says that the word becameflesh, dwelt among us, beheld
his glory.
The glory is the only begottenof the Father, full of grace and
truth.
I mean, jesus was the fullimage of how to gracefully share

(01:26:51):
, with parables and the messageof hope and judgment all packed
in together.
And we have a spirit and wehave that same power of his
resurrection inside of us.
So the more we take heed andlisten to him, we can not have
to.
You know, sometimes quiet isgood.
You know, it actually settlesthings.

(01:27:14):
My wife encourages me that.
You know, letting a sombersilence in the room and thinking
about what am I going to saynext instead of just jumping
straight to the first thing.
You know that usually gets mein trouble.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
And we're so bad about that on the Internet and
we can have a whole conversationon social media.
I think in Pride Month it'slike, maybe be silent on social
media this month would be a goodexercise, a good spiritual
discipline, because so much ofwhat we say on social media, in
responding to the world, is notdoing anything to soften

(01:27:49):
anyone's heart.
And so it's like, if youbelieve that this is true, are
you sharing it in a place in anymanner which is going to soften
someone's heart?
And so many times how werespond to things on social
media is not soft, not softeninganyone's heart.
And so then it's like, well,then, this isn't the occasion to

(01:28:11):
share it.
Uh, you know, um, stupid things,like, well, god made adam and
eve, not adam and steve, or justyou know, uh, some, or things
that seem like they're likethey're biblical, like like,
okay, we're going to reclaim therainbow, and I see memes like
that shared on social media allthroughout Pride Month.

(01:28:32):
And it's like, okay, yeah, godmade the rainbow as part of the
Noah and the flood and a promise, but in the way that we share
that on social media as aresponse to Pride Month, is that
actually softening anyone'sheart or is it further hardening
their hearts, like for thepeople you have on your social

(01:28:52):
media account who are strugglingwith sin?
Is this going to bring themcloser to you and give you
opportunities to actually sharehope with them?
And most of the time, theanswer is probably not, and so
we need to evaluate and maybesometimes just be silent and we
don't need to respond toeverything that we see,

(01:29:17):
especially online.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
I would say the major thing, because I don't try to
claim when the Lord's going towork.
So I tried to stay clear ofwhen, when, like I don't want to
take away the opportunity thatmaybe the Lord's going to use
someone in in a thing.
So I never say like full blown,wipe the table, don't do this.
Um, you know, because then youthink about Jeremiah and the

(01:29:42):
things that he was doing andyou're like man anyway.
Think about Jeremiah and thethings that he was doing and
you're like man anyway.
So my point you know it's okayto pray before you post
something on social media.
You know that was somethingthat I talk a lot about, what I
learned from my wife.
My wife's a really wise womanand, flynn, you're wise too.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
I'm just a fool with my foot in my mouth.
But yeah, I mean I understandthat.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
But yeah, I mean, I am constantly encouraged and it
really does become a normaloccurrence.
Now it's okay to delete whatyou're going to write and pray
about it and think before youhit post Like you have time you
don't have, you don't have tohave anxiety and post it right
that moment, you know, andthat's comes to responding to
people that write things.

(01:30:24):
I mean, like you said, it's awhole other social media
conversation.
But yeah, I mean, pray beforeyou are posting these things,
especially when it's somethingthat's hostile in a conversation
Politics, you know, same-sex,transitioning, all these things
they're already agitated.
It is not your responsibilityto bring more agitation and poke

(01:30:46):
the bear.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Absolutely.
Yeah, and so I love that Idon't want to tell people not to
post anything on social media,because it should be a medium we
use to give hope.
So absolutely, I love that.
Maybe pray before you postsomething or before you comment
on something that would be agood practice.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
Yeah Well, and the other thing, too, is like we
were talking about before wewent on here.
We've mentioned it here.
These are souls, these arepeople who are going to live
forever, and we were once indarkness.
Right, we were delivered fromdarkness into light.
And what's worse in some of Idon't want to say worse maybe
that's the wrong way of sayingit but if I'm a Christian and I

(01:31:27):
have pride over somebody else,judgment or pride over somebody
else in that sense that I'msomehow better than they are, I
almost feel like that's worse.
I should know better, right,you know, the person that
doesn't know better, that's just, in their sin, lost.
I mean, they have the abilityto respond to the gospel we're
not saying that, but you knowthey're lost.
I mean, they have the abilityto respond to the gospel we're

(01:31:47):
not saying that, but you knowthey're lost.
And I was talking to the youngman that I guarded with and I
said it's no surprise that theworld is the way it is.
It's getting worse and worse.
This is no surprise.
We live in darkness.
How can you expect someone thatlives in darkness to function
without as if they're living inthe light?
Well, I'm almost glad you knowyou go back you said 20 years
ago, but you go back 30, 40years ago.
We had this veneer ofChristianity in our country.

(01:32:08):
Yes, but I don't, I'm not socertain.
We were that Christian 20, 30,40 years ago.
I think we had a veneer ofoutward Christianity.
I'm sure there were, you know,maybe some more solid churches
and a little bit moreChristianity here and there, but
what we really had was sort ofa traditionalism Christian
traditionalism I wouldn't saynecessarily what we would call

(01:32:33):
born-again Christian movementsgoing on.
Now we did have some of theJesus movement and things going
on in the 60s and other thingsthat have happened.
Thankfully, some of that wasgood, some was not.
But you know, the reality is weas Christians are accountable
because we know better, we livein the light, we have the Holy
Spirit inside of us.
So it is so easy to make a kneejerk reaction to somebody's

(01:32:56):
comments or to feel like somehowwe are fighting against
something.
We're not fighting againstanything.
We're there to share the gospel, the beautiful good news that
we have been entrusted with byour savior, and so if we're
going to post something, I guessmy, my thought too, is, yeah,
pray before, pretend that personis standing right in front of

(01:33:19):
you and remember they're a soulthat jesus died for and I.
One thing I heard early on, andit just convicted me, was you
could win an argument and stilllose a soul.
And Christianity is not aboutwinning an argument.
It's not about an intellectualdebate about morality versus
immorality.
That is not Christianity.
Christianity is the truthversus the lie, and you

(01:33:42):
mentioned it earlier, bradyady.
What are the lies that arereally holding people back in
second timothy chapter?
What is it?
Chapter four or somewherearound there.
Chapter three, maybe, know thisin latter times, men, you know,
perilous times will come andmen shall become lovers of
themselves, and then it goes onto talk about all the fruits
that come with that.
And we're in that time.
You know we're in a time ofself-love, self-exploitation,

(01:34:07):
exploration and exploitation.
And you know, the thing I wasthinking as you were talking too
is you know, back probably inthe 80s, the old adage was if it
feels good, do it.
And then you know, in the 90sand the early 2000s, if it feels
good, believe it.
And I think we're in ageneration now where, if it
feels good, that's who you are.

(01:34:27):
You are what you feel.
It's not a matter of just whatyou do or what you believe.
It really is who you are, and alot of that has been geared and
generated and pushed by socialmedia.
It's not a conspiracy, it'sjust the world we live in.
But we as Christians are notwhat we feel, and so you might
feel threatened, you might feelfrustrated, you might feel all

(01:34:49):
these things.
You might feel a little bit madabout certain things, sad about
certain things, but we are notour feelings.
So, for the believers out there,certainly our encouragement is
please move beyond your feelings, move to the Lord.
Remember these people are oursouls, real people that Jesus
died for.
So just be wise as you'resharing.
Is it edifying?

(01:35:10):
Is it truthful?
You know Jesus said if you stayin my word, the truth will set
you free.
So we do want to share God'sword with people but, like you
said, it might not be sharing aspecific verse about
homosexuality being a sin.
It might be.
They might need to hear that itis sin, but there might be a
whole lot of other things goingon.
They need to know that God isthe creator.

(01:35:31):
They need to know that theBible is true.
They need to know that Jesusdied for their sins.
They need to know a whole lotof stuff that's in scripture.
God didn't just give us oneverse about homosexuality being
a sin.
God gave us an entire bookfilled with 66 books, and they
all point to Jesus, not to us,absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
That's such a great point and so many times I hear
people ask how do I convincethis person?
They're claiming to be aChristian or they believe in the
Bible, but they believe thatthe Bible isn't clear on
homosexuality or that thesepassages don't actually condemn
homosexuality as we practice ittoday.
And you know we can beconfident of all those verses.

(01:36:13):
There's about six passages ofthe Bible and we could spend all
day talking about them anddissecting into them.
We're not going to do thattoday, but it's like, regardless
of those handful of scriptures,we can look to all of God's
word and usually when people aremisinterpreting those passages,
like 1 Corinthians 6 and Romans1 and Leviticus and Sodom and

(01:36:36):
Gomorrah, and claim well, thisisn't actually talking about
modern-day homosexuality, thisis talking about rape or
pedophilia, or the Bible orhomosexuality is just inserted
in the Bible in 1946.
Usually they have a verydifferent picture of all of
Scripture.
They have a very differenthermeneutic, so it's like we
need to look at the biggerpicture.
It's like what do youunderstand about the Bible in

(01:36:58):
general?
How do you believe the Biblehas authority in our lives?
How do you believe in inerrancyof Scripture?
And usually their problem ismuch bigger than how they
interpret those six passages,you see that their problem is
how they interpret all ofScripture, and so, for many

(01:37:21):
people who claim the Bibledoesn't condemn homosexuality,
they actually need a verydifferent picture of all of
scripture, and so, instead ofjust focusing on well, I need to
convince them that this onepassage condemns homosexuality.
They probably have some biggertheological issues to also work
through that we need to comealongside them and help them

(01:37:42):
understand Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:37:44):
Because I mean, if you left, if you left a
non-believer convinced that theBible did condemn homosexuality,
they can still say yeah, butthe Bible is just man's book.
So at the very end of the day,you could still convince them
that the Bible says that andthey have no more trust in God's
word because they're still leftwith it being man's book,
whereas if you start from itbeing God's book, well then

(01:38:05):
everything else will fall inplace it really will as you
start searching the scriptures.
But, yeah, starting pointsreally do matter.
That's a great point.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
Yes, Well, man, I really appreciate you making
time and meeting with us again.
Tell everyone where they canfind your resources the website
and YouTube channel.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
Absolutely so.
My ministry is CalibrateMinistries and so
calibrateministriescom, so gothere.
There's resources with apodcast which is Calibrate
Conversations, and so you canfind Calibrate Conversations on
YouTube or all the podcastingapps.
But all the links to all thatis on our website,

(01:38:48):
calibratedministriescom, andthere's info there on, like, the
parents ministry.
If you're interested in havingme come and talk at your church
or conference or anything,contact me through the website.
If you want info on anything,calibratedministriescom.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Awesome man.
Yeah, I strongly encourageeveryone to go watch some of
those videos he's got.
He's got some really um goodresources over there that
navigate these waters, becausethere are a lot of specific
rabbit trails, uh, that we havebarely scratched the surface
today, but absolutely I do pray,as, as we started, I do do pray
.
People heard our concern for you, our genuine love for you, and

(01:39:32):
it's not cliche, it's not thisoh, we're supposed to love you.
We truly do love you and wewant you to really know that
full propitiation, that fulllove and satisfaction from
Christ, that full love andsatisfaction from Christ.
So, yeah, we strongly encourageyou to comment and get some
kind of feedback.

(01:39:53):
Reach out to someone if there'sa Christian in your life or if
you don't have someone, reachout to one of us three and I'll
leave it from there.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
So anything you guys want to capitalize on or end
with before we go.
I just want to end with John 3,but go ahead, brady, what did
you want to?

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
say.
I want people to know thatwhatever you're struggling with,
there is hope.
God's grace is efficient and hedied for us all and he died so
that we could be free.
And please reach out.
You can't do it alone.
You weren't meant to do italone, and I many times tell
people you can't expect theprocess of discipleship or you
can't expect the results ofdiscipleship without going

(01:40:34):
through the process ofdiscipleship, which involves
confession and community andpeople around you.
So please take that step.
If it starts with one of us onthe screen right now, then
that's awesome.
Start with one of us and tellsomeone and there is hope.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
Amen, Absolutely, Absolutely Amen.
I'm going to read John chapter,three very familiar verses, but
I just want to leave peoplewith 3.16 and 17.
It says, for God so loved theworld that he gave his only
begotten son that whosoever andthat really does mean whosoever
believes in him will not perishbut have everlasting life.

(01:41:13):
For God did not send his soninto the world to condemn the
world, but that the worldthrough him might be saved.
And just don't let your fleshdon't, let your feelings don't,
let the enemy don't, let theworld don't, let your community
tell you otherwise.
It's just too easy to put offour eternity till tomorrow,

(01:41:33):
which we're not guaranteed tohave.
So just trust in the Lord andturn to him.
He is calling you to him.
Anybody who wants the water oflife, Jesus said, come freely
and he will give you water oflife to drink.
So that is our invitation andthat's to everybody, including
you, no matter where you're at.
You don't need to clean up inthe water of life to come to him

(01:41:55):
.
You need to come to the waterof life to be clean.

Speaker 1 (01:41:59):
Amen, amen.
Yeah, that's what a promise.
Cool.
We'll leave it with that.
Thank you again, brady, andwe'll see you guys on the next
one.
Thank you all.

Speaker 3 (01:42:09):
Thank you, see you guys.

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