Occultism in the World with CANA - Marcia Montenegro Explains Occult Practices - Amos 3:7 A Love of The Truth

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyle Peart (00:17):
We have learned to live with unholiness and have
come back to look upon it as thenatural, unexpected thing.
But holiness and spiritualpower go together.
The church that is not holy isnot powerful.

Flynn Huseby (00:35):
The only reason we don't have revival is because
we are willing to live withoutit.

Kyle Peart (00:52):
The glory of the gospel is that when the church
is absolutely different from theworld, she invariably attracts
it.
The church they can't worshipmust be entertained, and men who
can't leave a church to worshipmust provide the entertainment.

Marcia Montenegro (01:15):
Going to church doesn't make you a
Christian, any more than goingto a garage makes you an
automobile.

Kyle Peart (01:32):
The world is now waiting for a new definition of
the gospel but for a newdemonstration of the power of
the gospel.

We must never rest until everything inside us
worships God.
The greatest tragedy is a sickchurch in a dying world.
The church is so subnormal thatif it ever got back to the New

(02:00):
Testament, normal it would seemto people to be abnormal.
There is nothing more importantin the Christian life than to be
clear about the doctrine of theatonement.
Well, good morning everybody.

(02:41):
It is October 12, 2024.
Welcome to Once Lost Ministries.
I am Kyle Peart and I'm FlynnHuesby, and our goal today is to
encourage the believer to reachout to where we once were.
Like and subscribe if youhaven't already, and for those
that are new here.
Our goal is twofold to grow andknow Jesus more, and the fruit

(03:04):
of that is we will go, naturallygo share him.
So, growing and going.
Welcome to the show.
Today is part one of athree-part series where we're
going to discuss the occult, andwe're going to be talking with
Marsha Montenegro today fromChristian Answers for the New
Age.
You can find her resources atchristiananswersnewagecom.

(03:26):
Marcia.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Welcome and say hello.

Yes, hello.
Thank you for having me on yourprogram.
I really appreciate it and Ilook forward to what we discuss
and to any questions people have.
I do like to answer questionswe discuss and to any questions
people have.
I do like to answer questions.
So don't be shy to anybodylistening, please.
Please feel free to askquestions about what I say or my

(03:53):
story or anything wonderful.

Yeah, I put in the chat for, uh, anyone that wants
to, to specifically address orcomment or question on something
, to put question in there.
It sticks out to me so pleasedo that and we'd be happy to
jump on that and I'll follow thechats as we go along.
Marcia, tell us a little bitabout yourself first, to
introduce to the people that maynot be familiar with you, and

(04:18):
just your background, why youhave so much insight on the
occult insight on the occult.

Okay, sure, I was in what is called the new
age for at least 20 years.
I got interested in really inhigh school, I would say, or
maybe even a little bit earlierin things like astrology and

(04:43):
ghosts and things like that.
I didn't pursue, I wasn'treally able to pursue it at that
age.
I didn't have the means andthere was no internet at the
time.
I'm sure if there had been aninternet I would have been on it
looking all these things up.
So I couldn't do that.

(05:04):
So in college I was able toexplore a little bit more, but
not that much.
I also got interested inEastern religions.
Now in college that wassomething that really became a
big interest of mine and stayedwith me until years later when I

(05:25):
was able to investigate moredeeply.
So I really had two areas thatwere drawing me very strongly.
One was the paranormal and theworld of the occult, astrology
in particular, and the other wasEastern religions.
And the other was Easternreligions and after I got out of

(05:53):
college and I had more time toread and explore, I was doing a
lot of reading on contact withthe dead.
I had an experience when I wasin college where I thought a
dead person appeared to me, andI mean, a person did appear to
me and I thought they were dead.
I'll put it that way.
They looked.
A person did appear to me and Ithought they were dead.
I'll put it that way.
They looked like a person, Imean, but they weren't an actual
flesh and blood person, it wasan apparition and he told me

(06:15):
what day he had died and whatyear, and so I was very drawn to
that for a while and reading alot of things on that and
eventually I started.
I went to psychics.
I went to a palm reader for my16th birthday.
That was what I wanted.

(06:35):
I told my mother that's what Iwanted for my birthday present.

So she took my Southern.

Baptist mother, so she took me to one
and I just had that very strongleaning towards those areas.
Now, as time went by afterschool and I was reading a lot
of stuff and getting into theidea of reincarnation and
Hinduism and then TibetanBuddhism.

(07:08):
So then I started to activelyget involved in groups and I
learned to do Tibetan Buddhistmeditation.
I took a class called InnerLight Consciousness which was
run by this group At the time.
I don't know if they're stillthere.
They were in southwesternVirginia, but they traveled all

(07:31):
over.
I was in Atlanta, georgiaduring this time, which is where
I went several months after Igraduated, and Atlanta Georgia
had a very, very thriving NewAge community very thriving.
And so there were lots ofobjects there, there was all

(07:51):
kinds of things to explore, andso I took this class in the
light consciousness andbasically it was a crash course
in the New Age and we did ameditation every night, a guided
meditation, and the teacherwould guide us through this
meditation and on the last nighthe said that he would introduce

(08:12):
us to our spiritual master.
The spiritual master would bewith us the rest of our lives
and we would be able to contactthe spiritual master and he or
she would contact us initiallythrough this meditation that we
were doing, but he saideventually you won't need that

(08:34):
anymore.
So anyway, I, you know, I wentthrough the guided meditation
and I saw what I thought was myspiritual master and actually,
from that moment on, he was withme all the time.
I was very aware of hispresence and I didn't interact

(08:57):
with him in the sense that Ididn't have conversations with
him or ask him his name oranything.
This was basically what'scalled a spirit guide.

Okay.

And uh, but I did feel his presence and a few
times I saw him in dreams, uh,so he was definitely like kind
of part of my life.
It's kind of like he was justthere all the time, or at least
I felt like he was, but I Ithink he was um and then I
decided I wanted to get reallyinvolved in something that I

(09:33):
could do myself and I, since Ihad such a strong interest in
astrology and there wereastrology classes being offered.
I took the classes and atlantawas in um kind of an unusual
situation in that you could getcertified by the city to
practice astrology no way um and, yeah, this was actually set up

(09:57):
by the astrologers and the citycouncil in order to keep out
scam artists, because at thetime now this is before I came
onto the scene this happenedbefore.
But what, what, what it was isthat there was a city law
against fortune telling and thatincluded astrology.

(10:17):
This is true in a lot of citiesand there's probably a lot of
cities where there areordinances on the books against
fortune telling.
This is very common, becausethere are a lot of what are
called scam artists doingfortune telling.
So there was an astrologerthere who wanted to change that.

(10:38):
So they decided that they wouldmake you take a test to show you
really knew astrology.
And so if you were a scamartist who didn't really know
astrology, you wouldn't pass thetest.
And so they said you have toget a business license, but you
have to prove that you knowastrology by taking a test.

(11:01):
So that's what happened.
So it's a seven hour exam bytaking a test.
So that's what happened.
So it's a seven hour exam.
I took the exam, I passed it, Igot a business license and I
started practicing as aprofessional astrologer and I
also, prior to that, I also hadtaken classes in numerology and

(11:21):
palm reading, past liferegression and some other areas.
So I was kind of into a lot ofdifferent things, but I focused
on astrology.
Yeah, so I became.
I became a professionalastrologer and I had clients and
I was part of the uh atlantaastrological Society.

(11:42):
I eventually became presidentand I was also on the Atlanta
Board of Astrology Examiners,which is the board that
formulates the exam that youtake at City Hall and that
grades the exam.
You know, because if you don'tpass then you can't get your
business license.

Yeah.

So I was very , very involved.
Plus, I was teaching astrologyand so my whole world was kind
of revolved around astrology.
I was writing for New Age andastrological magazines also, and
I was on the Speakers Bureau.
So I was speaking in Atlanta togroups that would contact the

(12:24):
Astrological Society and ask fora speaker.
So I spoke to like ParentsWithout Partners.
I spoke to the Lions Club, Ispoke at a school.
So you know, I was Is thatpretty normal?

You mind me interrupting there?
Like, is that pretty normal forthe world to just greatly
invite and accept these things?
You go into public school,you're going to these clubs and
stuff it was, it was normal.

Yeah, it was somewhat normal, I mean I'm sure
there are a lot of groups thatwould not do that, but those
groups did you know that was inat Atlanta, which is considered
part of the Bible Belt.
But I have to say Atlanta isvery, very urban in the sense of
you know, it's almost like anorthern city.
I mean, there are definitelysouthern parts of Atlanta, it

(13:16):
has its definitely southern side, but it's really not like a
typical southern city, othersouthern cities, I would say,
because a lot of people go toAtlanta from different places.
So there's a lot of people fromall over there.
But I don't know if that's thereason.
I think it's just because it'sa really big city attracts a lot

(13:38):
of different people and thendifferent things are offered
where you can learn things, andso all of these classes you know
, like in astrology and otherthings were, were there.
The Tibetan Buddhist group wasthere.
All kinds of stuff like thatwas was going on there.

Wow.

And so you know.
So I think that the fact thatit was like that is a very urban
atmosphere.
You have a lot of peopleinterested in astrology, you
know what's, you know?
In fact, I did something calledthere was a group of churches

(14:20):
that sponsored lunches, forthese were for senior citizens
and they would have differenttopics where they would invite
speakers to speak.
So it could be anything.
It could be someone talkingabout a book or someone talking
about you know food, orsomething like that.

(14:41):
Well, they invited me to comespeak on astrology, and this was
sponsored by churches.
This program, I think it wascalled Lunch and Learn or
something like that.
And I was able to go speak twiceto this group of senior

(15:02):
citizens about astrology.

Yeah, um to this group of senior citizens about
astrology.

Kyle Peart (15:09):
Yeah, I think.

I think that's why we want to have this
conversation because throughyour testimony, we're seeing
this stuff involved everywhereand a lot of people and that's
the reason why we're doing thisseries is a lot of people hear
the occult, which we're going todefine terms here shortly.
But, like, as you're talkingabout your past and your
background, I mean this stuff isplugged in everywhere and, um,
it really is infiltrating thechurch and has been for a while.

(15:32):
This is not like a uh, you know, last couple of years thing.
This is how long are we, howlong were you doing this?

Well see, this is.
This time period was in the1980s.

Yeah.

So you know, you can imagine if it was like
that in the 1980s.
And I know now that, startingwith the millennials and then
especially Gen Z, there's a veryhigh interest in witchcraft, in
astrology, and it's much moreaccessible now because of the
Internet.
And it's much more accessiblenow because of the Internet.

(16:06):
So now even more, there's evenmore information out there and
people can more easily get intoit.
You know, generation themillennials were pretty
unchurched.
Generation Z is reallyunchurched and so you know
there's a lot of interest inthese kind of things.
It's very, a very high interest.
You know.
I mean it's just everywhere.
You know, when I pick up myphone in the morning and and and

(16:28):
look at it, the first thing Isee is a horoscope thing you
know.
So yeah, it's definitely outthere.
So yeah, so this this timeperiod was was the 1980s into
the 1990, um, and I won't giveall the details of my testimony.

(16:49):
It is on my website but itwould take a while I can.
I can kind of shorten it ifyou'd like me to yeah, I, I have
your website up here.

Why don't you just uh, tell us what brought you to
the lord?
How did you know what?
What stuck out to you lookingat astrology and occultism, like
what stuck out to you andbrought you to christ well, um,
actually, what happened was that?

um, not well, what happened was that I
started feeling, um, I got theidea in my head to go to a
church.
Well, I didn't have the idea inmy head.
I actually the word iscompulsion.
I felt a compulsion to go to achurch.
Well, I didn't have the idea inmy head.
I actually the word iscompulsion.
I felt a compulsion to go to achurch and I really I didn't
want to go to a church at all.

(17:34):
I had no interest in it.
I had gone to church when I wasyounger and been exposed to
christianity, and I had rejectedit by the time I was about 15,
even though I was going tochurch.
I had pretty much rejected itfor various reasons.
I and I definitely was not aChristian, but I was going to
church and so I had no interestin Christianity.

(17:57):
I thought it was very narrowminded and judgmental and, um,
that was pretty much my view ofChristianity and so I did not
want to go to a church.
But this compulsion started inthe spring.
It went on all summer.
I went to an astrologicalconference in Oregon.

(18:18):
I came back to Atlanta and itwas still there.
So I thought you know, maybethis is something left over from
my previous, a previousChristian life, you know,
because I felt I had lived verymany Christian lives, okay, so I
thought this is probably aleftover from one of those lives

(18:40):
.
So I guess I need to go to achurch to kind of figure out
what's going on.

Interesting.

That's how I talk myself into going to a
church, which I think is reallyfunny now.
So I yeah, I went into thislarge church and I sat in the
back and my plan was to leaveafter about 20 minutes.
That was my plan.

In and out.

In and out.
Yeah, I'm going to go in.
I'll stay for 20 minutes justto kind of be polite, but I'll
sit in the back so that I canleave quietly.
Nobody will notice and I'lljust see you know if nothing
happens.
Well, fine, you know, I tried,you know.
So I go into the church and I dosit towards the back on the end

(19:30):
of the.
You know the pew there and theyplay music and everyone stands
up and they have a processionfrom the back of the church.
It's an Episcopal church and asthis procession is coming down
the aisle, it's led by a youngboy carrying a cross and as he

(19:58):
walks by me, I felt thisoverwhelming.
I call it a waterfall of lovefalling on me.
It was just very powerful and Iknew it was from a personal God
, but I did not believe in apersonal God.
Now, this just goes to showthat you don't have to believe
in something to have it happento you, because you know it
wasn't like I was seeking God orwondering who God was.

(20:21):
I mean, I thought I understoodwho god was.
God was a force, god was anenergy we all came from and we
all go back to that's who godwas yeah and jesus was an
enlightened spiritual masterlike buddha.
Okay, so those were my views ofgod and jesus, pretty much.
And but this was a personal Godtelling me he loved me.

(20:44):
I didn't hear a voice, it justwas.
I knew I could feel his loveand it was very powerful.
I mean, I started crying but Ididn't understand what was
happening and so I just stayedfor the whole service.
I ended up staying for thewhole service and then I decided
to go back the next sunday.

(21:06):
So I did, and I kept going.
Um, I really, you know, I, Idon't know that I I did not
understand at all what washappening.
I really didn't, and I was justsort of going there just to
kind of explore, I guess, um,just to see what it was like or
something.
I'm not really sure what.

(21:28):
What kept me going, but, um, I,I had people who found out I
was an astrologer who wanted mybusiness card.
So then I decided that I couldget more clients oh, interesting
, I thought well, you know, Imight get some clients here.
You know that was another reasonto keep going.
I made a couple of friends andI was actually in a group of

(21:52):
people who were going to beconfirmed at Easter.

OK.

And I was.
I told them I said, well, I'mnot going to be confirmed.
I said I'm not, I'm notbecoming a Christian or anything
.
And they were like, well,that's okay, you know, you can
stay in the group.
So it was a very interestinggroup, but I won't go into that.
So it was interesting.
The church was very, veryopen-minded and very progressive

(22:22):
, so that's why I wascomfortable there.
And, um, so I'm there in thischurch.
I go on labor day weekend.
That's when I went and feltthat waterfall of love.
Now it's getting into octoberand, um, I start getting this

(22:42):
impression from God that hedoesn't like astrology.

Kyle Peart (22:47):
But I don't.

I don't know why.
I can't figure out.
I kind of had a vague idea thatthe Bible said something about
it, but I still don't understandwhy this God would want me to
know.
He didn't like astrology, so Ijust kind of brushed it off, but
it wouldn't go away.
And then it became thisimpression that he wanted me to

(23:10):
give it up.
And that happened um, rightbefore um or shortly before
Thanksgiving, and so I didn'tknow what to do.
I was like I can't give it up.
I'm an astrologer, I haveclients, I write for magazines.
I was like I can't give it up.
I'm an astrologer, I haveclients, I write for magazines,
I teach.
You know, I also had, I shouldsay, I had, a part-time job, and

(23:32):
in that job I was asked by oneof my clients, who was also one
of my astrology students, togive him information on the
employees based on their birthdates, and that's why I was
there.
That's why and nobody knew that, though I don't even think his
secretary knew it, only he and Iknew that's why I was there.

(23:53):
I had a job title that was verygeneric, that didn't specify
what I did.

Okay.

And so people just they didn't really wonder.
I guess they just thought hehad me there for certain things
and that nobody really wasinterested.
But that's why I was there andso I was in that office part
time.
And so what happened was isthat it was so strong that I had

(24:23):
to give astrology up.
After I went, I saw the rectorof the parish and told him what
was happening, and he opened thebible and started reading from
the old testament, and he wasreading passages about
divination and he told me hesaid you know, they used to cut
open animals and look at theliver to read it, which is true,

(24:45):
this is true.
And I thought, well, why is hetelling me that?
You know, like I don'tunderstand, why is he telling me
that?
But it kind of hit me that thiswas confirmation that God
wanted me to give it up.
So that's, I decide.
That was the night beforeThanksgiving.
I decided to give astrology up.

(25:05):
And the next day I was havingThanksgiving with my.
My chiropractor, who was awitch, had a whole group of
witches over to her house forThanksgiving and had invited me,
and so I went and it was verystrange because I told her I'm
not talking about astrology, sodon't ask me anything.

(25:26):
Now she had given my businesscard to a lot of her clients.
I had a lot of clients becauseof her, but I was telling her.
I didn't tell her I'd given itup.
But I said you know, I'm notgoing to talk about it, I'm
taking a break from it.
And she's like oh OK, you know,I had some very strange
experiences there.
I won't go into, but um, if youhave me on again, maybe I can

(25:50):
go into the full story, and so,um.
So then I just I gave it up andthen I had to tell my clients I
wasn't doing it and they saidwhy?
And I said I don't know, butsomehow it's separating me from
God.
And they said why?
And I said I don't know, butsomehow it's separating me from
God.
And they said how?
And I said I don't know.
I was really in spiritual limbo, I did not know what was going

(26:13):
on.

Yeah, your worldview was being challenged
and you were being pulled tostop what you loved your life.

Yeah, I wasn't a Christian, but now I'm
not doing astrology either.
So what am I?
What do I believe?
I was just in limbo.
And so I decided that I wouldstart reading the Bible because
I thought, since I was going tochurch and I wasn't doing
astrology, I might as well readthe Bible.
That was kind of my rationale,I think.

(26:41):
So I started with Matthew, andI started with chapter one,
verse one, and I started readinga little bit every night and
then, right before Christmas, Iwas in chapter eight and I was
reading the account of Jesus onthe boat with storm and how he
rebukes to see in the wind, andI was reading that over and over

(27:04):
again and as I was reading it,god just opened my eyes and I
saw who jesus was.
I mean, it's just, it was asclear as day I went.
I went completely from notknowing who christ really was
from darkness to light in likeone second.
I mean it was a it was amazing.
Yeah, this was.

(27:25):
I realized I had been separatedfrom God.
I realized that I had beengoing against God my whole life
and that I realized that Ineeded Christ.
That I need.
You know, I don't think I couldarticulate it, I wasn't using
Christian lingo.
I didn't think in my head Ineed a reconciliation with God

(27:47):
or I'm lost.
I need to be saved.
None of that was in my head.
I just knew that I neededChrist.
I needed to be right with God.
That was probably the best wayI understood it.
So I just gave myself over toChrist and I knew right away I
was a new person.

Wow.

So it happened very fast.
And then my life was reallyreally strange because, you know
, I eventually had to get rid ofmy.
I got rid of my books.
I had to.
Well, prior to that, I had totell the astrological society I
wasn't teaching my class, whichI was supposed to teach in
January.

(28:27):
I had to find another teacher.
All kinds of things changed Atmy job now my boss had hired me
to do astrology.
Now, at the time this happened,when I trusted Christ, he was
away on a on a like a six weekabsence of leave, so I couldn't

(28:48):
tell him until he came back.
And so I told him he was verynice, he kept me there and just
gave me busy work.
You know, he's just a nice guy,so he kept me there for a while
.
A nice guy, so he kept me therefor a while.

(29:11):
Um, and I was, you know, tryingto kind of.
My life was so different.
Of course, I lost all, prettymuch all my friends, I just lost
them because I didn't haveanything in common with them
anymore.
there was a couple of them whokept in touch with me, but I
pretty much lost all my friendsand um I in that office, um,
four months later, a guy I knewin that office, who I knew was a

(29:33):
Christian, came into my officeand I had actually gone to him
in January and told him I hadbecome a Christian, but he
didn't really say anything thatI remember.
So he came into my office inApril and I said you know, it's
really weird to me that a fewmonths ago I was an astrologer

(29:53):
and now I'm a Christian.
And I said you know, I didn'teven want to be a Christian.
Now I'm a Christian.
And he said well, maybesomebody was praying for you.

And.

I said, oh, I don't know anybody who would
pray for me.
And then I saw him.
You know, I saw his face and Isaid wait a minute, were you
praying for me?
And he said well, my youngadult fellowship group at my
church we were praying for youall last year.

Wow.

And so he told me every other Tuesday
night when they met they prayedfor me.
So there you go, you know.
That just shows that Godsometimes wants us to pray for
people.
No matter, I'm sure thatlooking at me in the office
there he didn't see any change,you know.

(30:42):
And yet they were faithfullypraying for me.

Yeah, yeah, and that's I mean, that's something
that Flynn and I we talk a lotabout on here.
I mean it's, it's as simple asthat.
I mean, god is faithful tominister and reach every person
you were talking about.
You weren't even looking forGod.
Well, scriptures say that noneseek God, but God, in his rich
mercy, reaches out to everyone,and it's really the response

(31:10):
that we go.
Well, I'm going to think aboutthis.
That's where it talks about theconviction of the Holy Spirit.
You were, like, I don't evenwant to be a Christian, but I'm
at this church, but yet in myprevious lives I was a Christian
.
So I wonder if your previousChristian life was judgmental
the way you thought Christianswere in your current life.
You know, there's like allthose thoughts that you're
wrestling with, but this isreality.

(31:31):
Like every listener is thinkingabout this, whether Christian
or not.
Like we have these convictionsin us, that that that are
thoughts, they're prods thatdraw us back back to the truth
and we can suppress them in ourunrighteousness and say, you
know, I don't want this, butpraise God.
You know you, yeah, the churchwas being faithful and praying

(31:52):
for you and trusting God tominister to you.
And Flynn, do you have anythingthat you want to touch on that
before we get into the deepterms?

Kyle Peart (32:00):
No, I mean, what comes to mind for me, marsha, as
you're talking, is when youknow the disciples were, or the
Christians were, praying forPeter when he was in prison.
And it's just funny because I'mthinking about it from that
person that you worked withperspective, praying for you for
a whole year and probablywatching nothing happening for a
while, and then finally youwalk into his office or walk and

(32:24):
talk to him in January and say,hey, I'm a Christian now.
That had to be so encouragingfor him too, because I think you
know Peter was put in prisonand then everybody was praying
for him.
And then he gets released andthen he goes back and you know
the, the, the person who wentand answered the door I forget
if it was one of the servants orif it was one of the believers
and then they run back and tellthe disciples they're like, no,

(32:44):
no, no, peter's in jail, we'restill praying for him.
He can't be at the door.
You know so sometimes even asbelievers, how god blessed you,
but he also blessed the personpraying.
What a great testimony of justgod's faithfulness all the way
around.
And I think for list for peoplewatching.
We all have family members orfriends or somebody that we know
.
That's probably like we kind ofcheck it out as like a lost

(33:05):
cause.
Like boy, I've been praying forthem for years.
Don't stop praying, don't stoptrusting the Lord.
You know, obviously theirrelationship with him is between
them and him, and if theychoose to reject him, they
choose to reject him.
But keep praying, don't give upon those things.
So what a great testimony,marcia.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's just what a testimony toGod's faithfulness.

It really is, yeah, and that nobody's beyond
God's reach Nobody.

Kyle Peart (33:30):
No.

So, no matter what, how hard a case that, I'm
sure, I'm sure I look like areally hard nut to crack, I was,
I was very, very hardened, butyou know that doesn't matter to
God.
So if you feel like to pray forsomebody, just just you know,
keep praying.
You know, god, I can be workingbehind the scenes and you may

(33:53):
not be seeing what's going on,just like with me.

Kyle Peart (33:56):
And you may not.
You may never see it this sideof heaven.

So you may and you may not see, yeah, but
if I think, if you really want,want you really care for that
person or you feel led to prayfor that person, you know, just
just pray.
God wants you to pray.

Yeah, and.
I think the encouraging thingthat I'm learning as I get older
in the Lord is pray right.
Then you know, a lot of timeswhen people are asking, hey, you
know I'm going to, usually wesay, hey, is there anything I
can pray for?
And they say, yeah, could youpray for this?
And then you're like, all right, I'll put that on my list.
I mean there are somelegitimate people.
There's a guy in my Bible study, the men's study, that I mean.

(34:30):
That guy writes down everysingle thing you tell him.
I love it.
But, most of us in WesternChristianity go I'll pray for
this, but then forget it laterand don't ever do it.
So pray right then and thereand say, hey, can I pray for you

(34:52):
now?
Or you know, thinking aboutsomeone.
Pray for him right then, Ithink, um, trusting the God of
today, now, you know, andseeking him, so cool.
Um, let's get into the terms,Cause I think, uh, the beginning
of this series, it'd be reallygood to really define some of
the things that we're throwingaround.
There's a lot of newer people,new believers, or maybe people
that are involved in this anddon't even know what they're
messing with.

(35:12):
There's people that absolutelyknow what they're talking about,
like the way you did, and somaybe they're watching this
right now, saying, well, arethese Christians, these dirty,
rotten Christians, going tomisconstrue my terms?
Let's just lay it all on thetable.
When I was younger in the Lord,I was deeply confused.
Flynn and my wife could tellyou they probably chuckled a

(35:35):
little bit, but I rememberhearing the word occult, because
Flynn was telling me about DaveHunt's book and I was thinking,
okay, wait, are you saying acult like a?
And then new word, C-U-L-T likea cult.
You know, like all of the youknow, Mormonism and Scientology

(35:56):
and all these things like cults.
And they were like no, oh,cults O-C-C-U-L-T.
And I'm like, wait, I have noidea what you're talking about.
I knew what you know familiarspirits were just from growing
up.
You learn about ghosts andcartoons and all these things.
But define occultism for uswhat is the occult?

(36:17):
And then we're going to getinto kind of the sub tiers from
there.

Okay, so I define the occult as a set of
practices that are listed inDeuteronomy 18, 10 through 11.
And these practices are alignedwith different belief systems,
so you can find occult practicesin all kinds of belief systems.
You know even belief systemsthat you might not expect to

(36:45):
find them.
You can find them so, and thosepractices are divided up in
three categories divination,spirit, contact and sorcery.
So then then I usually talkabout each one, so I don't know
if you want me to go ahead anddo that.

(37:06):
No, yeah.

So when we're talking about using divination,
I mean I think it would be goodfor clarity for everything.
Yeah, let's break it down.

Yeah, so divination is probably the most
common one or one of the mostcommon ones practices, and it's
usually it's often calledfortune telling.
I think some of the more modernBible translations may even use
the word fortune telling, andso what that is is divination is

(37:38):
reading a hidden meaning intosomething that's natural or
something in creation, orreading a hidden meaning into an
image or a number or creationlike a planet, or it's getting
information via supernaturalmeans, like a psychic.

(38:00):
So divination comes down togetting information, but you're
not getting the informationthrough the natural methods, the
normal way.
We get information through ourfive senses.
Um, so, for example, astrologyis divination, palm reading is

(38:20):
divination, tarot cards aredivination.
Tarot cards are divination.
Those are all forms ofdivination and very common ones,
and it can seem and sometimesit can seem even like kind of a
game.
For example, I remember I usedto go to baby showers Before I

(38:44):
was a Christian.
I would go to these babyshowers and they would play this
game where they have thepregnant woman lie down or I
think she can be sitting too,but they hold.
It's better for her to lie down.
Then they hold a like a penciltied to a string over her belly
and then they wait for thepencil to move.
So if it moves this one wayit's a boy and if it moves into

(39:07):
another way it's a girl.
So you guys probably don't havethat experience, I don't know.
But and hopefully they don't dothat at Christian baby showers
I don't know.
I've been to a few Christianbaby showers.
I haven't seen it.
So that's good, but-.

Kyle Peart (39:24):
I think a lot of people marcia just and we're
going to be talking about this.
This is part of why we talkabout it, with the
desensitization that people justdon't even realize what they're
doing, that it's not just agame.
We'll talk about that whenwe're talking about your book.
But one one that I'm remindedof as a teacher, I remember
first starting with first andsecond grade and kids were

(39:45):
making fortune tellers, thoselittle paper things that you
could go back and forth with.
They love folding them, andthen you pick a number, they
count it one, two, three, fourand then you open it up and do
it.

Oh yeah, I did that too when I was younger.

Kyle Peart (39:57):
Yeah, and I remember doing those and just thinking
it's fun, and then they wouldhave something about the future
You're going to marry somebodyor something's going to happen.
And so, as a Christian, I wentto a Christian school and
started teaching and these kidswere building these things.
And that's the first time Ithought about it in years and I
thought wait, that's not right.
So we changed it.
I told them they could make one, but it couldn't be for telling

(40:22):
the future.
It could just be something likeyou could share a Bible verse,
you could share a joke, becauseit's just a paper building thing
.
And we just started callingthem thingamabobs instead of
fortune tellers, because I'mlike we don't need to be playing
a game to foretell the future.
I've seen on TV the same thingthe pencil thing with the string
.
That's something that I've seenseveral times on shows where

(40:44):
kids are fooling around andthey'll just have a yes or no on
a piece of paper.

Yeah, just to ask a question.

Kyle Peart (40:48):
It doesn't have to be pregnant, it's not something
we need to fool around with.
It's not a game.
So for those that are watching,don't try it.
It's not something we need to.
So, anyway, I don't want tohijack that, but I think the
divination stuff, it's just it'sso important to talk about.
So thank you for for definingthat term.

Yeah, yeah.
And I wanted to say somethingelse about that.
Yeah, you can, you can.
I've heard people use it over amap and they'll say I move, or
something like that Where's agood place for me to live?
I mean, you can do all kinds ofthings to get either a yes or
no answer, or to get it to movein a certain direction for some
reason.

(41:27):
And what I tell, when I'vetalked to a lot of youth groups
about the occult, and what Itell them is think about what
you're doing.
You're asking, you're holdingthis object and you're asking a
question.
So I'll say do you think thepencil knows anything?
Do you think the pencilactually knows anything?

(41:47):
And they'll say well, no,because it's just a pencil,
right, right.
So so why do you think so?
What do you think is happeningto supposedly give you an answer
?
What it is is that you'rebelieving there's some kind of
supernatural power that's movingit in a certain way to give you

(42:09):
an answer.
And I said that's the occult.
That's where you've crossed theline, because the pencil
doesn't know anything.
But you are, you are, you arewaiting for some kind of power
you know to steer it, a certaindirection kind of power you know
, to steer it a certaindirection.
And that's where you know,that's that's what I say in
order to get them to recognize,you know, to think about it, to

(42:36):
think it through, so that theydon't just do it without
thinking, because if you reallythink it through, then you
realize oh, wait, a minute.
I must be, I must be believingin some kind of force that's
moving it to give me an answerand then right away you have to
say wait is that okay for me tobelieve in that?
Because it's a, it's pagan.
This is not biblical.

Yeah, and I think this is this is really crucial
right here for us to reallyexplain this Cause.
We talked to our kids.
I got five girls and my wifeand I really break down these
things because you can see Imean we're going to get into the
culture later in thisconversation and how the occult
is affecting the culture butwhen you're talking to kids and

(43:16):
you talk about force and allthese individual things that are
definitely in occulticpractices, they resonate with
people that know exactly whatthey're doing.
But for people in that aredefinitely in occultic practices
, they resonate with people thatknow exactly what they're doing
.
But for people in the churchthat aren't familiar, but you
see, those things stick out.
You know, how do you, how do wereally like answer those

(43:39):
questions when it comes to?
Well, I'm seeking the Lord inthis moment and doing these
things because they're trying totie in.
Well, God has power, God has astrength, and so I'm
Christian-easing these kinds ofthings, if you know what I mean.
So what is your answer to thatwhen people are really dancing

(44:01):
with some blurry lines here,trying to bring in Jesus?

Yes, yes, that does happen and I have
answered questions like thatbefore.
Well, what I say is, if you arebelieving in some kind of force
or energy using an object orgiving you information like that
, it can't be from God, becauseGod condemns it and God is not

(44:28):
going to answer you with amethod that he condemns.
He has condemned those things.
Divination is.
If you look, go to like theBible Gateway and put divination
in the search box and see howmany Bible verses come up under
divination, there will be quitea lot of passages.
Now, some Bible versions mightuse a different word, but I

(44:53):
think most of the like I knewAmerican Standard and ESV, I
think, and probably NIV, useddivination.
You know, I haven't reallychecked out to see what other
well fortune telling is used bysome Bibles, and so if you look
it up, you'll see that the ideathat you can get answers, this

(45:17):
you're trying to get an answersupernaturally, and nowhere does
the Bible give us an example ofthat as a way to get answers
from God, except through prayer.
You know, pray to God, but wedon't look for them in creation,
we don't look for them in ahidden meaning, like we don't
try to think that the planetVenus represents something and

(45:39):
the planet Jupiter representssomething, and so if I see them
a certain way in my birth chart,then that means you know X, y
or Z, because then you're givinga meaning to something where
there is no meaning.
You know, in other words, venusis a planet with certain
physical properties, but itdoesn't have a meaning right now

(46:00):
.
It doesn't mean anything, itdoesn't mean um.
You know it's not the planet ofrelationships, which it is in
astrology, and jupiter's theplanet of expansion and saturn's
the planet of limitations, etc.
You know they all have meaningsin astrology.
That's from.
You know divination and numbersall have meaning.
You know, um, or the lines onyour hand, but those are all

(46:23):
things that if you just look atthem, you don't.
There's no meaning there.
You know the lines on your handare just lines on your hand yeah
and so when you start, to tryto see a meaning there, or if
you think an object can give youan answer, then you're delving
into the supernatural.
And that's the occult, becauseGod does not encourage us to God

(46:46):
, in fact forbids us trying toharness or channel supernatural
energy or channel supernaturalenergy.
Yeah, well said, and that's whatdivination always has to do
with this hidden knowledge andsupernatural information.
Because this was how the peoplewho had turned away from God

(47:07):
and was worshiping false gods,this was how they got
information from their gods.
Because, if you look at thecontext of Deuteronomy 18, god
is giving directions to Mosesand Moses is, you know, the
words from God are coming, youknow, to the people who are

(47:27):
going into these pagan landswhere God is leading them and
God is saying have nothing to dowith their practices.
And he lists a whole bunch ofthem there in Deuteronomy 18, 10
and 11.
And he starts off with you know, don't, don't sack, don't put
your child in the in the fire.
Okay, this was also, this was asacrifice, but also a form of

(47:50):
divination.
And then, uh, he lists thingsand, depending on the
translation that you're you'reusing, you know it'll have
divination.
You'll have um contacting thedead, casting spells, um, you
know, contacting spirit,spiritism or contacting spirits,
um, so it lists all of uh,looking um for omens, uh, so

(48:14):
it'll list a whole bunch ofthings there.
And these are all things thathave to do with looking for
answers outside of God andoutside of the Bible, outside of
his revealed word.
And so once you do that andyou're trying to get these
answers, that's the occult.
So now you've crossed the lineand you're practicing something

(48:37):
or trying to get an answer in amethod that God has completely
forbidden, and he calls theseabomination because these
practices actually, you know,god says that God doesn't really
get sick, but he says they makehim sick.
You know he says that in orderfor us to understand his view of
these things and his view.

(49:00):
Things are important to him.
So they.
But the thing is, in ourculture they can appear so
harmless and they can appearlike games or like something fun
, you know, like the baby showergame and things like that, and
it can just look like thehoroscope columns are.
You know what used to always bein magazines, but now of course

(49:21):
, it's online and you know onyour phone and you can go online
and probably put your birthdate somewhere and maybe for a
few dollars, somebody willsupposedly tell you about
yourself.
So it's very accessible now andbecause the culture is so
desensitized to it and reallythis desensitization has

(49:44):
happened very quickly from thetime I became a christian, I
have watched it in the culturejust accelerate unbelievably.
Harry pot Potter was one of thethings that helped.
It was like an accelerant.
It was already out there in theculture, but that just really
opened doors.
You know, after Harry Potterstarted getting popular, four

(50:07):
publishers said they were goingto start publishing books with
similar themes and after that itjust became an habit and now
it's actually hard to avoid thisstuff in children's books or in
children's movies, whatever.
It's really hard to avoid videogames, of course.

Kyle Peart (50:32):
As a teacher, I'll tell you.
Another one that comes up quitea bit for me with second to
fourth graders is MagicTreehouse books.
And so, yeah, mary Pope Osborne, who wrote those, actually the
lady who is in the books, who isthe librarian, her name is
Morgan Le Fay, which is awell-known, well-known witch

(50:53):
throughout history, right, right, which is a well-known,
well-known witch throughouthistory, right, right.
And so when we started, Istarted researching them down
when I taught at tucson, andrealizing they were actually
teaching the kids very subtlythrough a series of the books
because there's so many of themhow to practice divination.
And so I took it to my boss andunderlined everything.
And that's where the line for meis when you start teaching a
kid, I mean one of the lines.

(51:15):
Once you start teaching a kidhow to practice these things, I
mean that's really a line for meis when you start teaching a
kid, I mean one of the lines.
Once you start teaching a kidhow to practice these things, I
mean that's really a line youcannot cross.
And so I explained that to myboss.
It was at a Christian schooland they just could care less.

So they just never came into my room.
That didn't bother them, reallyno.

Kyle Peart (51:34):
And at the school I'm at now it's the same thing.
So my kids know I've taughtthem fourth and fifth grade, so
we call it the truth radar.
So when they come across any ofthat stuff they bring it to me
and it ends up in the garbage.
So you know, it's stuff likeMagic Treehouse.
They don't come into our room.
But you know, often, like yousaid, it just seems innocent and

(51:54):
fun.
And when you read the booksthey're all written Harry Potter
.
You know that was a phenomenon,still is.
It's still capturing people'sattentions.
So yeah for sure, and that's theculture we live in.
And so, kyle, when you saidoccult and culture, I'm like
that's really for the Christian,that's really what it is,
because we're so influenced bythe culture we that's really
what it is.
Because we're so influenced bythe culture we have to be

(52:16):
careful because it is a veryoccultic culture, for sure.

Yeah it's very pagan and and, like you
said, these things look fun andand so, I think, a lot of
Christians.
The reason that they don't getconcerned is that they think the
occult is sort of fantasy.
They think it's like not reallyreal and unfortunately, a lot

(52:40):
of these stories mix fantasywith the occult.
Now, I don't have a problemwith fantasy.
The use of the imagination isnormal.
I think god gave us, you know,the ability to imagine things,
and you can use it in a creativeway.
Um, you know writing stories,drawing pictures, you know
designing something, interiordecoration or whatever you know.

(53:02):
That's normal and that's fine.
But a lot of fantasy elementsare mixed in with the occult and
you have things like, you know,doctor Strange, which I watched
.
I watched one or two of thosemovies and I did a lot of
Facebook posts on that becausethere was so much occultism in
it but it's almost.

(53:22):
It's almost portrayed as thiskind of fantasy story, but it
actually has real occultconcepts in it, and so does
Harry Potter, which is portrayedas a fantasy, but they're
actual, real occult principles.
In the books, which I lay outin great detail on my website, I

(53:42):
have an article on every bookand every movie I read every
book.
I took notes.
I watched every movie.
I took notes.
This consumed a big part of mylife.
Unfortunately, it took up awhole part of my life.
Unfortunately, it took up awhole part of my life for
several years doing this becausethey were so popular and, of
course, I was being asked aboutthem.

(54:04):
I felt especially by teenagerswere asking me.
I thought you know, I have toaddress this issue.

Yeah Well, we appreciate you putting in the
time and effort into that,because a lot of people are
unwilling to address thosethings.
And seminary professors arewearing Spider-Man t-shirts and,
you know, Doctor Stranget-shirts in their in their
teachings and you know it's justunfortunate that it's dismissed

(54:32):
so quickly.
But that's the desensitizationthat you're talking about, that
it's dismissed so quickly, butthat's the desensitization that
you're talking about.

Kyle Peart (54:38):
It's a postmodern world trying to remove all of
these fantastical things and say, well, it's just an imagination
, it's just fun things, but thisis I'll give you an example,
kyle, sorry to interrupt, butjust on this topic and I'll let
you continue.
I apologize, but just on the DrStrange thing, just so people
understand you.
I apologize, but just on the DrStrange thing, just so people

(54:58):
understand.
One example I can give you toois and Kyle knows this is when
the new Dr Strange movie cameout I forget what it was called.
We ended up seeing it and itwas so bad, it was so dark and I
just I knew some of my studentswere going to go see it because
the trailer for it did not makeit look that dark and it was
just demonic.
It was absolutely demonic wholething.
So I put up, I put together anemail and emailed my parents

(55:22):
just letting them know hey, hereare like three things that you
need to know about it and it'sand I would not recommend it.
And I was very clear but notlike rude about it, just very
clear that this is not a movieto see.
And within probably maybe a fewhours or maybe a half a day, my
boss, who is also now the headpastor at the church that's

(55:44):
connected to my school, but hejust became their head pastor.
But my boss emailed me and saidyou know what?
This isn't our role to tellparents what they can and can't
see, and so you really shouldn'tbe doing this, letting parents
know about this situation.
And then, about an hour or twolater, another parent emailed me
that I knew really well and shewas thank you for sending this

(56:05):
because we were going to go seethe movie and I really
appreciate it because I wouldhave never wanted my boys to see
that, and so she was superappreciative.
But I just find it interestingthat here you have the average
parent thinking I could careless.
That it's me.
But you know, the averageparent is like thank you for the
discernment.
And then the pastor says andthe administrator of a Christian
school says you know that youshouldn't be doing this, and

(56:28):
that's just to me that's sad,it's a testimony.

Well, what you were doing and what I say I
do is I don't tell people whatto do, but I give them the
information.
Yes, so I'm like here's theinformation about this book or
this movie.
And if it's especially toparents, if it's something for
younger children, then I'mwriting it for parents more than
for the child.
So you know, here's theinformation.

(56:53):
I myself and I give my opinionI do not recommend it.
You know, know, this is my viewof it.
Um, here's the information.
Here's why I don't recommend it.
Now, then they have to decideas a parent whether or not.
And that's kind of what you did.
You said I don't recommend this,I this is why and here's why,
here's what the bible says yes,so you know I, because sometimes

(57:16):
I'm accused of uh, it's likemarcia, you know you can't tell
people what to do and I'm like,I know I don't have any
authority over.
Who do I have authority over totell them what to do?
I am, I'm telling you why Idon't recommend something and
I'm giving you, I'm trying togive you, biblical reasons for
it.
Another movie that is very,very big, that I actually have

(57:38):
an article on my website on itis Frozen 2.
Oh, yeah.
The second Frozen movie.
I could not believe theoccultism in there and actually
I found a review of it by aWiccan who was writing about all
the Wiccan symbolism in it.
Who was writing about all theWiccan symbolism and I quoted
her in my article because I sawit too, because it's clearly

(58:02):
they were doing the five pointsof the pentagram in the movie
and the heroine becomes thefifth point, the goddess or the
spirit, she becomes the fifthpoint.
So you know this was, this wasreally the message, and it had a
lot of occult elements in it.
And there's a lot of movieslike that.

(58:23):
So in fact, now talking nowmakes me want to go back to my
Facebook post on Dr Strange andput it, make it an article on my
website.
And the reason I even came upwith it is that one of my
friends from seminary teaches ata Christian school and she
hears all this talk from thekids and I think it's around
it's around the fourth and maybefifth grades, I think, if I

(58:45):
remember correctly and she hearsall this talk.
So she asked me to talk to theclass about Dr Strange and Wanda
Vision and then I had to goonline and look at some episodes
of why I didn't even know whatwanda vision was oh yeah, but I
know now now they apparentlyhave a new show that's based on

(59:06):
that.
So I went and looked at episodesand then I wrote up for dr
strange.
I made a list of all the occultelements I saw and I sent them.

Kyle Peart (59:14):
Oh, it was awful, absolutely awful so.

I, you know, and I talked to the kids.
I talked to them and answeredtheir questions and everything.
So I'm really glad she did that.
So any of you teachers outthere, if you can, if you want
me to talk by Zoom or some otherplatform like this to your
class, I can do it.
But I'm going to, I think I'mgoing to put that on my website.

(59:40):
So that's, that's we kind of Idon't know.
I guess we just start talkingabout things in the culture, but
I never define spirit contactor sorcery.

Yeah, I definitely want to get into familiar
spirits.
Connecting, you know,necromancy with what we're
seeing today, because I mean,those are the things.
That's kind of where I wasgoing with earlier is, you know,
a lot of people do think thisstuff is fake and it's just
fantastical.
But this has been paganreligion since the beginning,

(01:00:04):
you know, and that's the liefrom Satan is you can be as God
and so you can have theseconnections.
So we really want people to beencouraged to to to spot these
things out.
I mean, all the way back tostar Wars we had a person
comment on here.
It's all about entertainment.
Star Wars movies did a lot ofharm.
I mean, we've done a wholevideo, Flynn and I, on star Wars

(01:00:27):
and so, yeah, connect the dotsfor us, help us understand the
rest.
Yeah, Connecting.

Marcia Montenegro (01:00:33):
Yeah, yeah, cause star Wars has a lot of
Eastern.
It's a combination of easternreligions and sorcery and I um,
I have some articles on on starwars on my website, but I've
been talking about star wars toyouth groups for a long time, so
you know, a lot of timesthey'll raise their hand and say
, are you saying I can't seestar wars?
And I'm like, no, I'm nottelling you not to see.

(01:00:54):
In fact, they probably havealready seen it.

Flynn Huseby (01:00:56):
Don't take my fun away, marcia yeah.

I know I'm on another program where they call
me the party keeper, we've beencalled similar.
I tell them I say what I want todo is teach you or show you how
to be discerning.
I want you to be able to see,when it's appropriate, that
there are these other ideas thatare being pushed in the movie.

(01:01:23):
And so I said I'm giving StarWars as an example to help you
see that and understand it.
So yeah, so spirit contact iskind of self-explanatory
Contacting a spirit, whether youthink it's a dead person or an
alien or you know some kind ofspiritual master, which is very

(01:01:45):
common in the New Age.
So contacting the dead isprobably what we hear about most
in our culture.
You have mediums who claim tocontact the dead.
I've had Christians email mewho were going through a really
hard time.
Maybe they lost their husbandand they were so desperate just

(01:02:06):
to hear from their husband onemore time they actually would go
to a medium, or maybe a friendtalked them into it.

Kyle Peart (01:02:13):
Yeah.

Go to a medium.
And you know, the thing is,these mediums just like me, as
an astrologer, and everybody inthe New Age and everybody who
practices the occult has aspirit guide, at least one
spirit guide and these spiritguides are fallen angels, which
I did not explain.
I gave my testimony and talkedabout my spirit guide, but then

(01:02:34):
I didn't say that he was afallen angel.
So, um, they can disguisethemselves as the dead and they
have enough information probablyabout the dead person to pass
on something that makes it soundlike the medium is really
hearing from the dead person,and so there are ways that can

(01:02:57):
make it seem real and verybelievable.
And that's one of the problemswith this is that it's very
deceptive.
And, yes, there is a real thinggoing on in the occult, not in
the sense that people in theoccult claim, for example, cat

(01:03:17):
will cast spells, but they don'treally have any power to do
anything with with it.
They are.
They don't have that kind ofpower.
Um, it works in different ways,but they don't actually have a
power.
So we don't need to be afraidof, you know, somebody casting a
spell, but the thing is thereis a demonic power behind it,

(01:03:37):
you know.
So what I always say is witchesdon't have the power, the power
is using them when they'recasting a spell.
They're being used by the powerand when an astrologer is doing
an astrology chart and a psychicis doing a psychic reading,
they are allowing themselves tobe used by Satan.
Now, they don't see it that way.

(01:03:58):
I mean, most of these peopledon't believe in Satan.
I didn't believe in Sataneither.
So you know, you see it as yourspirit guide is helping you or
something, or you have a specialpower that you can do that, and
so they don't really believeit's evil, and so they don't
really believe it's evil.
But it is.
It's very evil and it's very,very dark.

(01:04:19):
This area is actuallyincredibly, incredibly dark and
it just it sucks some people inand it's like this I call it.
It's true for the new age too.
It's like opening a door andthere's a long hallway and
there's a door on each side ofthe hallway, and you go down the

(01:04:39):
hall and you open another doorand there's another hallway and
there's more doors, and you canjust go on forever.
I mean it just it has.
It has these roots that just godown and down and down and it
can get you interested in whatseems to be very harmless,
something very harmless.

(01:05:00):
And some children are veryvulnerable to this.
They're interested, and justlike I was.
I had a dream when I was 11that got me interested in the
paranormal, and it never wentaway.
So I think that, and I've heardthis from other people too who
got into the occult.
So you know, I guess I'memphasizing the seriousness of

(01:05:23):
this that it's that it shouldn'tbe dismissed.

Right.

And just because it's entertainment, that
doesn't mean that it's okay.

Well, and the stuff you're talking about right
now.
The reason why it it's not.
We're not talking entertainmentat this point, because now
we're talking about things thatare very personal, real trauma
that has happened in our life,real people that have passed
away.
And, with the times coming up,I mean we live in arizona, in
tucson.
There's a huge festival I mean200 000 people come every year.

(01:05:55):
It's getting bigger every yearDe Los Muertos.
I mean there's a huge paradethat goes down the middle of our
city and it's an interfaithconnection.
There's tons of differentchurches that are involved there
and it's exactly what you'retalking about, because people
can resonate with I miss myloved one.

(01:06:16):
And so when they say, talkingto familiar spirits, you sound
fantastical, right Like itsounds crazy.
So it's not really not everyonehere watching is talking about
that, but I know a lot of peoplethat even in their prayers pray
to their loved ones.
They say you know I miss youdad and and you know I love you,

(01:06:37):
and you'll see a lot ofFacebook posts and I can
resonate with that about beingabout missing loved ones, but
this is something the scripturesdo talk about.
So thank you for thatclarification.
It's it's necessary.

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's really.
Um, we cannot.
We cannot communicate with ourdead ones.
They are not there.
They're you know they aregone're they're you know they
are gone.
Whether they're with you, knowchrist or not, they are not
reachable.
So you are not going to be ableto hear from your, your dead

(01:07:11):
loved one.
You just cannot do it and youwill have to find.
If you're a christian, you needto find comfort in the lord.
You need to find comfort withother believers maybe who have
experienced the same kind ofloss.
Find comfort in God's word, butdon't try to find comfort in
getting messages from your deadloved one, because whatever
messages you get, they are notcoming from that person.

(01:07:35):
You know they're going to comethrough through the medium, they
will be coming from fallenangels.
So you don't want those, youdon't want to open yourself up
to that.
You know, I have a story aboutthat where a woman told me she's
a Christian woman and she had a.
I don't know if it was a, Ithink it was a friend or a real

(01:07:56):
close friend who was, I don'tthink, a Christian, and this
friend's husband had died andshe was in deep grief and she
wanted to go to a medium to geta message from her husband.
So the Christian woman wantedto support her.
I don't know if she tried totell her it was wrong or not, I
can't remember, but she felt shecould go with her to support

(01:08:19):
her, which was a mistake,because she went into the room
with this woman and the mediumwas there.
And the medium looked at theChristian woman and said well, I
didn't expect this to happen,but one of your dead loved ones
has shown up.
And so there she was, getting amessage from him and really it

(01:08:41):
really like stunned her andshook her up, and I, you know, I
told her, I said it's nice thatyou wanted to support your
friend and and you know, or atleast you know, comfort her or
whatever you thought you weredoing, but don't put yourself in
a situation where you're goingto get a message from a psychic

(01:09:03):
or a medium.
Just don't go there, don't doit.

Yeah.

Satan sees that, or the fallen angel sees
that Satan can't be everywhereat the same time.
Let's keep that in mind.
Satan can only be one place atone time.
He's a creature, so he doesn'tknow everything.
But a fallen angel can see thatand you immediately become a
target.
So you don't want to putyourself in that position.

(01:09:27):
And I want to say somethingabout sorcery, because sorcery
sounds so exotic.
You know, probably a lot ofpeople are thinking well, you
know sorcery, you know, is thatreally real?
And and I don't really run intosorcery but sorcery is the use
of harnessing supernatural powerfor some kind of purpose and
there are lots of ways to do it,and one of the ways is healing.

(01:09:51):
So one of the big things in ourculture that's from the new age
, that's gone mainstream, isenergy healing.
Energy healing is sorcery.
It is.
It is dangerous andunfortunately a lot of
Christians have fallen into thisyeah, they go, for the
listeners could be Reiki, right.

(01:10:11):
Reiki, but it could be naturalhealer yeah, a natural healer, a
holistic healer.
Most of these people are new age, or at least they're abiding by
new age thinking and they aremany of them are even if they're
not doing direct energy healingon you.
What they believe about the waythey're doing healing is based

(01:10:34):
on energy views and they areseeing your body not the way
your body actually isphysiologically, but they're
seeing it as a bunch of energiesand they're treating the
energies in your body.
So this is really a form ofsorcery.
I've been trying to say thatfor years and years and years
and.
I feel like, even though I'vebeen saying it for years, I've

(01:10:56):
seen it increased in the churchin the culture and in the church
.
So you know it's really hardbecause people with chronic
illnesses and pain, who you know, go to doctors and the doctors
can't really help them or themedications don't work.
They get really, you know,desperate and they hear about

(01:11:17):
this healer and they'll go tothe healer.
And here's what I say you mayeven get better, but it is still
wrong.
Because you know there's a booksomebody told me about I don't
think I didn't get it, but Ilooked it up one time.
I think it's called Healing atAny Cost and it's a.
It's a Christian book on awarning against this kind of

(01:11:40):
healing because, uh, god, if godwants you healed, he will heal
you through the methods that arenot occultic, you know right
sure he will heal you.
Either heal you or he'll healyou through you know a normal
way.
Don't go to these people whocall themselves natural and
holistic healers.

(01:12:01):
This is all.
This is what new agers go to.
I know this, having been in thenew age.
We went to naturopaths andnatural healers and and all of
that.
These are not doctors, thesepeople are not doctors.
Yeah, so I just want to put acaution out there, because that
would fall under the heading ofsorcery out there, because that

(01:12:23):
would fall under the heading ofsorcery.
So a lot of Christians mightthink sorcery, oh, that's
somebody with a wand or you know, casting a spell or doing some
kind of complicated ritual,which it could be.
Those are all sorcery, but itcan also be some kind of healer.
So healing is very, very big inthe occult in the New age it's
a huge.
Healing is a big thing becausesatan uses healing to lure

(01:12:44):
people into those areas.

Well, I'm here marsh and marcia what I think an easy
crossover.
And this happened with yogawhen it came to our country,
right?
So a lot of people didn't wantto embrace eastern mysticism.
But if you call yoga science,didn't want to embrace Eastern
mysticism.
But if you call yoga science,then it's okay If it's just a
scientific exercise.
And the same with psychology, aslong as you can call psychology

(01:13:09):
science, as long as you cancall evolution science, as long
as you can call it scientific,well then you know, you've, well
then we've just sanitized itand that's okay.
But the same thing with healing.
You know, a lot of people areinto health.
I think a lot of Christiangroups get caught up in some of
these things, you know, for avariety of reasons, whether it's
oils or other things, and it'sall about the health of it.

(01:13:32):
But, like you're saying, it'simportant for us to look at
what's behind all of it.
Look at what the foundation is,look at the origin of these
things and if the origin isoccultic which a lot of it Look
at what the foundation is, lookat the origin of these things.
And if the origin is occulticwhich a lot of it is, in fact I
would say most of it is whenit's dealing with those kinds of
areas, then we need to saybecause God said he's not going

(01:13:52):
to give his glory to another,he's a jealous God, so he's not
going to utilize an occulticmethod.
God's not a pragmatist, andneither should we.

Right, he's not a pragmatist.
It's a good way to put it?

No, yeah, and so God ?
The reason God doesn't want usto go through creation to gain
our wisdom or even healing inthat sense you know the occultic
sense of it is because we needto go to the creator.
Creation was cursed when sincame in, exactly.
Our job isn't to go to creation, to creation was cursed when
sin came in, exactly.
Our job isn't isn't to go tocreation to attain these things.

(01:14:25):
And I had heard years agolistening to dave hunt, when
because he's done it, you know,he did a really good job, I
think, on seduction ofchristianity and occult invasion
years ago, and that was reallywhen things were really just
starting to come out.
But, um, one of the things hehad said and I thought, how that
, oh, that's interesting.
But he had talked about Eve andhe said you know, when Eve went
to a fruit to attain wisdom.

(01:14:47):
That's really what the generaldefinition of all of this is,
whether you want to call itwitchcraft or occultism is
trying to go through a physicalobject to attain something
spiritual.
That's the basic battle planthat Satan's using, whether it's
a dividing rod, whether it's asorcerer's wand, whether it's
through some so-called medicine,whether it's through some
ritual or a repetition.

(01:15:08):
I mean, that's why we're callednot to do, you know, vain
repetition in our prayers, and alot of churches have gotten
caught up in it, whether it'sthrough labyrinths or other
things.
They use all of theseritualistic, physical things to
try to attain some spiritualavenue, and that's that's.
It's forbidden because you'renot going to open a door to god,
but you are going to open adoor to the enemy.

(01:15:29):
Even as believers, we can sadlydo that.

So, yeah, for sure, we have to understand
there's, you know, there is anenemy out there yeah, I noticed
somebody in the chat saidsomething about acupuncture and
I've done Facebook posts on that.
Acupuncture is based on Taoism,which is an ancient Chinese
religion, started around 800 BCand came from shamanism, which

(01:15:56):
is shamanism.
That's a whole other area, butit involves occult practices and
spirit contact, and it's basedon the belief in this energy,
this life force called chi, thatsupposedly is in the universe
and runs through your bodythrough invisible channels
called meridians, and so theenergy gets.

(01:16:19):
If it gets blocked, then itcauses pain or illness, and it
has to be unblocked.
And so all these acupuncturepoints are based on where they
thought it would be effectivefor healing or for stopping the
pain.
But it's not actually relatedto the biology of the body,
because they did not allowautopsies in China, so they

(01:16:42):
actually didn't know where allthe organs were.
They had to guess at it Wow,guess at how the body worked.
And acupuncture so isacupuncture when, like they, you
may have a pain in yourshoulder and they might want to
put the needle in your knee orsomething, because it doesn't
correlate physiologically at all.
It's based on this map of themeridians and where how

(01:17:04):
everything connects.
And actually there isn't even astandard meridian map.
There's apparently differentones.
So depending on which one youracupuncturist uses, that's the
one that's going to guide him orher to the acupuncture.
And so what what's happened isthey've done a lot of studies on
this for years and years andyears and they have never found

(01:17:26):
conclusive evidence.
They can't find any physicalbasis on which acupuncture, you
know, rests.
In other words, there's noobjective standard for
acupuncture.
And they only found that itrelieved.
I think in four cases it therewas slight, slightly above

(01:17:46):
average, that it would relieve,I think, certain kind of knee
pain, nausea after dentalsurgery and two other things.
But it was, it was very slight,and the and actually studies
showed that sham acupunctureworked as well as acupuncture.
So sham acupuncture is wherethey either weren't putting the

(01:18:06):
needle all the way in or theyput it in a point that wasn't
supposed to be the right.
So it's basically they have notreally been able to show it as
a solid method, and if they didfind a way that it worked, then
it would no longer beacupuncture, because then it
wouldn't be based on the chi andthe meridians.

(01:18:26):
It would be based on some kindof physical thing and it would
be something else.
So you know, we as Christians,because these things in the
culture are so popular, justbecause something's popular.
And here's another thing justbecause a Christian does, it
doesn't make it okay either.
Because, I've gotten that before.
Like well, my acupuncturist isa Christian or something.

(01:18:49):
And there are Christianacupuncturists.
I had one who was really mad atme because of my post on
acupuncture.
So you know it's like yeah, butjust because he or she is a
Christian, maybe he or she isnot discerning.
You are called to be discerning, you're responsible.
Don't blame it on this person.
They're deceived, so don't yoube deceived too.

(01:19:13):
So don't do something justbecause a Christian does it?

Let me tee this up because I think this is the the
best transition for um.
The next point we answered alot of the points of.
You know, is this stuff fake?
You know astrology and fortunetelling, and I think we've we've
pretty much nailed that down,that this stuff is real, that
we're dealing with.
But the power is not from thepeople themselves but from the
demonic spirits.

(01:19:40):
And so Haley, our only Facebooksubscriber, she came on here.
So I want to highlight this andI think this will point this
out really well.
She said I went to achiropractor who went to church
with me several years ago tohelp me with migraines.
He was a holistic healer andused acupuncture on me without

(01:20:00):
permission and it scarred me forlife.
Then she says he knew that Iwas staunchly against it, but he
did it anyway.
I had horrible demonicoppression as a result and
started my journey into learningmore about the dangers of
holistic healing.
Now you know the scriptures sayI have here first john 4 1
beloved, do not believe everyspirit, but test the spirits to

(01:20:23):
see whether they are from God,for many false prophets have
gone out into the world.
And then the next one Ephesians5, 11,.
It says take no part inunfruitful works of darkness,
but instead expose them.
So what Haley went through isexactly what you're talking
about.
Is this stuff is in the church?
How does the church go about toactually test these spirits, to

(01:20:48):
observe and research thesethings the way that she is doing
so?

Well, it's easy to look up acupuncture If
you know it's from most peopleknow it's from China, you know.
All you have to do is go to anacupuncture site and it will
tell you.
You can Google what isacupuncture based on, or the
spiritual beliefs of acupuncture, and you'll find all these
websites that are very openabout what it's based on.

(01:21:17):
It's based on the chi flowingthrough the, the, the meridian
channels, and they get blockedand and it's and then, and you
have to have the yin and yangbalance and you'll see all of
the spiritual language fromtaoism.
It's just right there.
It's really easy to find.
So anything, basically anythingthat you're not sure of, you

(01:21:38):
can check out.
And I also would say this andthis probably will not make me
well, I know it won't make mepopular, because I'm already not
popular because of it um, isthat anything called alternative
healing is almost always basedon spiritual belief systems.
Um, it come, and that's whyit's called alternative.

(01:21:58):
It's because it's not thestandard kind of way that we
research and find a method ofhealing.
It's based on a belief system,a spiritual belief system, like
acupuncture.
And so all of thesealternatives either haven't been
tested or you can't test thembecause there's nothing there to

(01:22:20):
test, they don't have any kindof standards or they've been
tested and they don't pass thetest.
So I tell people to be verywary of alternative healing.
And who are the people that doalternative healing?
Holistic practitioners,chiropractors, naturopaths,
natural healers All of them doalternative healing.

(01:22:45):
And whatever reasons you mayhave against the medical field
and a lot of people have a lotof very bitter feelings towards
doctors or they've had badexperiences I always say no
matter how negative thatexperience is, it doesn't
justify going to these people,it doesn't make it OK, it

(01:23:07):
doesn't matter if you had ahorrible, I mean, it does matter
, but it's not enough reason togo to one of these healers.
And I think that what's happenedin the church is that going to
these alternative healinghealers has opened up christians
to be more receptive to theconcepts of energy.
Because now I've seen it movefrom the alternative healing to

(01:23:31):
these ideas about energy, wherechristians actually are telling
me that this energy is from godand, um, you know, you can
direct healing energy into aperson, which is what you do
with Reiki, and there are a lotof people who do Reiki.
You think you know, say it'sChristian, so they become more

(01:23:52):
open to the idea that theseteachings or these concepts can
be Christian, because they tryto Christianize them or say it's
related to the Holy Spirit orsomething like that.
And so that's very dangerousonce you start trying to
Christianize a pagan practice,because then it makes it seem

(01:24:16):
more acceptable and you lureother people into it that way,
and I think that when you getinvolved in these things you
open yourself up to furtherdeception and who knows what
else.

And delusion.
So I think what happens is whenyou're deceived, you start and
we use the word, or you use theword desensitize in your book
that we'll be talking about.
But it is a culture ofdesensitization and it's in
every area, whether it's lust,whether it's.
You know what's appropriate andinappropriate for behavior,

(01:24:52):
when it comes to relationships,everything.
But when we're talking aboutthe spiritual end of things
today and that desensitizationis just, I mean, it's not crept
in the church anymore, it's justembraced from the pulpit down
and often it's because pastorsand the leadership in a church
isn't talking about it.
I'm really glad to hear thatyouth group leaders are inviting
you at all to talk with thekids, because if you want to

(01:25:17):
reach this, I mean you've got tohelp the kids understand what's
going on and the parentsunderstand how big of a deal
this really is.
And you know things like Reikiand all of that, I think in my
mind what I'm thinking is likeyou know, it started from a lot
of.
It started from the East, butit's also been around everywhere

(01:25:38):
.
Paganism, occultism, yeah, andthe people who practice it
understand that it's spiritualby nature.
But in order to get people toaccept the lie, often you have
to desensitize in a sense, orstrip away, sanitize all of the
spiritual stuff from it.
And then you say, well, it'snot really that, it's more

(01:25:58):
science, it's more healing, it'smore just medical, whatever.
It is stretch, it's juststretching, you know, like for
yoga, or it's it.
It helps me, and I've heardpeople use anecdotal stories,
it's like whatever.
And so then you, you sanitizeit and then the Christian world
takes it in and then they applyspiritual, like biblical,

(01:26:18):
concepts to it, then they slapbiblical names on this thing.
That never was sanitized, itjust was for us to get and take
it in.
So you went from a spiritualdelusion to a sanitized delusion
to then a christian delusion.
You know it's a yeah and it's adelusion.
And the problem then becomesnot only for you, like you're
practicing these things, butyou're passing it along to other

(01:26:41):
people you're passing it alongto.
But you're passing it along toother people, you're passing it
along to your children, you'repassing it along to the next
generation.
When Israel rejected God, ittook one generation for them to
just completely embrace a lot oflies.

So it doesn't take long and whole churches
can be infected by one personwho introduces these practices.
I actually know of cases wherethat's happened and and I think
your, your progression there ofhow it gets sanitized and then
it gets a Christian label on itis very good.
I think that that that doeshappen.

(01:27:12):
And for example, I was shockedas a new Christian when I I was
very new and I found out someother Christians were doing
homeopathy.
I was very new and I found outsome other christians were doing
homeopathy.
I knew what homeopathy was, Iknew what it was based on.
It's based on these spiritualbeliefs and I was so shocked
that these christian women weredoing homeopathy.
And I remember I was sitting inthis little circle of women.

(01:27:35):
I can't remember why I wasthere, if I was a speaker, I was
visiting or what but I somebodysaid something about and I said
homeopathy.
I said that's not.
I said that's like new age.
And they were like they were soshocked and and kind of
offended that I said it and Isaid well, you know, I know what
it is.
I was in the new age.

(01:27:56):
It's new ages are in thehomeopathy.
It's not based it's based oninto homeopathy.
It's not based it's based ongoes back to vitalism, which is
a pagan belief in a life forcepermeating, and so, um, you know
, but they didn't really.
You know, I was still a reallynew christian, I didn't know how
to really explain things welland I didn't know the bible real
super well, so I don't know.

(01:28:19):
I can't recall exactly how thatall ended, but I don't think
that I convinced anybody that itwas bad.
So it's very frustrating for mesometimes because I see these
things and I know what they are,and especially when I was a new
believer I did want to addresssomebody asked about herbal.

I was going to bring in.
We're getting some really goodquestions.

So I can say something about both of those.

Yeah, let's talk about the herbal remedies.
Are they wrong to take?
And then, yeah, there's a few,and I think this is a good
transition.
These questions are really goodbecause the next transition we
were talking we're going to talkabout experiences and the
difference between truth andrelativity and the way that
people are coming about toknowing and growing in God by

(01:29:05):
their own personal experiencesinstead of actually by the word
of God.
So I think this is a reallygood part for these.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
So, yeah, herbal remedies.

Yeah, and that's a more complicated one,
because, of course, herbs arejust herbs.
You know it's a neutral thing.
They're not good or bad in andof themselves.
Now the problem comes with afew areas.
First of all, we have toremember nature is fallen.
Okay and I think that wasmentioned maybe Flynn you
mentioned it that nature iscorrupt.

(01:29:36):
It was corrupted by, you know,the sin in the garden.
So there's nothing reallyespecially powerful or you know
pure about nature, or or orherbs Cause a lot of people
quote Genesis to me, but I'mlike but that was before the
fall, you know it was likebefore the fall.
Remember the fall corruptednature, remember that.

(01:29:59):
So we need to keep that in mind.

And what did he say would come from the fall?
Weeds and, funny enough, lotsof people are using weed, yeah.

So here's the I have cautions about it.
Number one the herbs are notregulated.
Okay, they're not regulated, soyou don't really know what
you're getting.
So that's a caution.
Another one is it can only beused for minor things and you
need to make sure that it hasthat herb has the property it's

(01:30:36):
been shown to be able to dosomething.
Okay, like I know that I don'treally know a lot about herbs,
but I know tea tree oil can help.
I think it's fungus orsomething like that.
It has a property that it'sknown for that particular thing.
So there's certain herbs thathave an effect that has been

(01:30:56):
shown.
We know that from research.
So, when you know that, you canuse it for minor things.
But my caution would be this isnot something to treat a major.
Don't use herbs to treat cancer, you know.
Don't use herbs to treatParkinson's disease, don't, you
know?
Don't try to treat a majorproblem with herbs, because they

(01:31:17):
aren't powerful enough.
The reason that drugs arepowerful is that they are
concentrated.
That's also why they cause sideeffects, which is unfortunate,
but they also.
I've had powerful drugs and Ihad some bad side effects, but
also they healed me.
I mean, they kept me from dying.
So, you know, I'm I'm gratefulto the Lord that there were men

(01:31:41):
with brains who came up withthese, these drugs that saved my
life, and I'm willing to havethe side effects because I'm
alive, you know.
Otherwise, yeah, I wouldn'thave the side effects, but I'd
also be dead.
So I'd rather be alive with theside effects.
So if they're not real, herbsare not real powerful, they can

(01:32:03):
only do minor things.
And the other caution I wouldgive with that is that the herb,
herbal industry, if you want tocall it, is connected to the
natural, natural, natural foods,very much connected to the new
age and to witchcraft.
So if you really get into thatarea and you're looking at books
or you're talking to people ina online group or something, you

(01:32:26):
might come across people whoare new agers or witches or
christians who have fallen intothat thinking, not realizing it.
I actually know a christianwoman who got into briefly for a
time fortunately, because thelord, you know, drew her back
out of it got into witchcraftthrough her interest in herbs

(01:32:49):
and natural food, herbs andnatural healing she actually got
into which I don't think sherealized what was going on when
it happened yeah and you know,later she, she came, kind of
came to her senses and Godshowed her.
But you know, don't?
That's what the Bible tells us.
Don't think that you can't bedeceived.
You know, and actually the NewTestament, most of it, is full

(01:33:11):
of warnings against falseteachings, and those are written
to Christians.
So all of us can be deceived.
All of us can be deceived.
So just be careful.
If you're into herbs, becareful that that's an area that
can lead into the new age andthe occult.
But I'm not saying, I'm sayingit's okay to use them if you
research it, if that herb hasthat property, and if you're

(01:33:34):
treating something minor, thenit's all right.
Now the applied kinesiology.
I I need to say something aboutthat, because a lot of
chiropractors and naturopathsuse it, and christians, so many
christians go to chiropractors,um, so, um, applied kinesiology

(01:33:56):
is complete bunk.
I'll just be really up front.
It's complete bunk, completebunk.
I'll just be really upfront.
It's complete bunk.
It's based on, originally, basedon this belief of the vitalism
of this energy in your body.
And because, if you think aboutit, how is it that pushing your
arm down and the resistance ofyour arm is going to tell you

(01:34:17):
whether or not you should take acertain remedy.
I had applied kinesiology doneto me.
It's very big in the new ageReally.
It's kind of using the body asa tool of divination.
So you believe that the bodyhas this inner wisdom and this
is very common in the new agethat your body has inner wisdom,
and so I'm holding this bottleof vitamins and I don't know

(01:34:43):
whether this vitamins are goingto help me or not.
So then the chiropractorwhoever it is, pushes my arm
down to see how much resistancethere is and he determines from
that and maybe something else Ihold whether or not I should
take it.
Now that's there's no, there, nonothing rational in there at

(01:35:04):
all.
It's complete.
It's completely irrationalbecause it's based on a
spiritual view.
That is nonsense.
It is complete nonsense.
Please, please, please, do notdo applied kinesiology, which is
also called muscle testing, andI want to say don't mix up
applied kinesiology withkinesiology.

(01:35:25):
Kinesiology is an actualscience of how the, I think, the
muscles and the tissues worktogether, or something like that
.
You can look it up because Imight be remembering it wrong,
and it's used, I think, a lot insports, sports medicine so
kinesiology is a natural thing.
That's okay.
But apply kinesiology is whatI'm talking about, and sometimes

(01:35:49):
they'll call it muscle testing.
They might even be coming upwith other words for it.
That's another thing you haveto be careful about, because
sometimes they'll use adifferent term, um, but it just.
You know, if it doesn't makesense to you, it's because it
doesn't make sense, and they'lleven do remote applied
kinesiology, like thechiropractor or naturopath or

(01:36:12):
whoever will, will do it on you,for your child.
I mean, how much sense doesthat make?

It doesn't.

It doesn't make any sense at all.
So I'm glad that personmentioned it.
I might not have thought of it,yeah.

Well, I would say too, really quickly.
A lot of people go to massagetherapy.
So when you go to massagetherapists, there's a difference
between a sports medicineperson that actually is trained,
I think.
Anyway, and you can correct meif I'm wrong I'm happy to take
the correction, marsha, becauseI don't know everything and

(01:36:52):
we're three party poopers righthere, so I'm happy to have a
party of party poopers, but youknow, from what I understand,
you know there is, there isscience to muscles and how, yeah
, and so there's obviously someareas that are helpful for
sports medicine and for certainstretches.
I'm not talking about yoga, butstretching and training and all

(01:37:14):
of that.
So if you, if you have issues,it's probably better to look at
more of the sports medicine sideof things.
But even then I would alwayslike I've had to go to a little
bit of massage and chiropracticonly because of some back issues
, and I'm really picky.
The person I go to is morealways sports medicine based.

(01:37:35):
It has nothing to do with anyof this and I interview them and
talk to them and if they haveanything to do with Reiki,
anything to do with Easternmysticism, they're done.
I won't let them even touch meor anything and like the few
times that I've had to domassage for certain areas.
Thankfully I have a sportsmedicine massage person that
just does muscle groups and Imade sure that they do not.

(01:37:57):
And what some of them will dojust so people know is they will
apply Reiki or energytransferring whether you ask
them to do it or not.
That's what they're doing.
Exactly, exactly.
That's why you have to bereally clear If this does this
person practice anything to dowith energy healing, maybe they
don't practice it on yoursession per se, but if they

(01:38:19):
actually have that categorybecause a lot of massage
therapists have categories theywork in and if that's one of
their categories, that I wouldnot do it because they will do
it in spite of you.
So I would say, be really wise,careful, ask lots of questions
before just jumping into any ofthat stuff and, whether it's
intentional on your part or not,it's just better not to try to
open any doors, accidentally orintentionally.

Yes, and yeah , I'm glad you brought up
massage therapy.
I did a post on that severalyears ago.
Massage and massage therapy aretwo different things.
Massage therapy didn't evenreally exist or that term didn't
exist, I don't think.
Before the 80s there was a hugemassage therapy school in
Atlanta.
I knew I had a lot of astrologyclients who were studying to be

(01:39:04):
massage therapists.
All massage therapy schools inthe United States and I think in
Canada incorporate new agepractices and a new age
worldview and they will mix that.
Some of the things they teachare factual about the body, but
they'll mix in the new age stuff.

(01:39:25):
And I knew massage therapy wasnew age and I remember the first
time I came across a youngwoman who was a Christian woman
in a Christian home.
I was actually staying in theirhome while I was speaking
somewhere that was, you know, inanother state and she said she
wanted to go to massage therapyschool and I almost fell out of
my chair Because I was like what, what you wanted?

(01:39:48):
It was almost like she said shewanted to go to astrology
school or something.
I was like I told her.
I said you know, it's new age.
It's like she kind of didn'treally believe me, but I mean it
incorporates this view of thebody.
That's new age and they will.
They will say things that soundscientific, that aren't so.
They'll say, well, if youmassage this, it'll release this

(01:40:10):
, this in the body or whatever,and it may or may not.
So you know, I personally havejust said now I know there's
Christian massage therapists andsome of them have told me I'm
very careful, I don't use anynew age.
And some of them have told meI'm very careful, I don't use
any new age.
You know ideas, but I don'tknow if what they learned at the
school, if they realized it wasnew age or not.
They may have believed it.

(01:40:31):
So I personally would not go toany massage therapist, christian
or not, that's just that's justme.
You know you have to make yourown decision, but be very
careful and, like what you I'veactually told people that I've
said be very specific that youdo not, you just want a physical
massage.
You don't want anything else,you just want a physical.

(01:40:53):
You know my muscles are tight.
I need you to massage them.
You know them.
You know, um, but like, yousaid, if they do the energy
thing.
They may do it on you anyway,and so, consequently, I I would
love to have a massage, but Ihave not gone to get a massage
because, because of that Ihaven't gone and someone

(01:41:14):
actually gave me a gift, um, orwas going to give me a gift for
a massage, and I just decidednot to use it because I just
don't want to put myself in thatI can live without a massage.
And if you're really having aphysical problem, you know, go
get a phys, then go to a doctor,have him or her refer you to a
physical therapist.

(01:41:35):
For that specific, I had afrozen shoulder several years
ago.

It's very painful and I had to go to a physical
therapist.

I'm not to a physical therapist.
I'm not saying a massagetherapist would even say they
could treat it.
Maybe they would, I don't know.
But I went to a physicaltherapist but even there I need
to say very sadly that somephysical therapists have gotten
into energy healing.

It is just infecting.

It is infecting the whole health care
world.
Yes, it is.
It is infecting the wholehealth care world.
Yes, it is the medical worldbecause there are hospitals now
that will offer things likeacupuncture and stuff like that
because they realize people wantit.
So it's really hard to it'shard, it's hard to navigate all
this and I've had seriousillnesses and the place, the

(01:42:20):
hospitals that I went fortreatment, there were flyers.
You know they would have aplace where they had flyers and
there were flyers where you goand get all of this alternative
healing, which was all new age.
It was all new Reiki.
Reiki was advertised and allthis new age stuff.
So people who go there anddon't know about it are like, oh

(01:42:40):
look, I can go get this.
You know, and it's justnavigating, it's being in the
waters with sharks.
You're in the water with sharks, so just keep that in mind.

As you two are talking.
I was thinking about thisbecause it is hard the things
you're saying like.
Navigating these waters arehard, but that's that's the
reminder in Proverbs 4 20.
It says, my son, attend to mywords, incline thine ear into my
sayings.
Let them not depart from thineeyes.
Keep them in the midst of thineheart, for they are life unto

(01:43:16):
those that find them and healthto all their flesh.
Keep thy heart with alldiligence, and out of it are the
issues of life.
So it becomes really easy eventhough it is hard.
It becomes really easy when yourely on the Lord and what he
says and we find strength andhealing from Him.
It may not be physical healing,like you said earlier, but it'd

(01:43:38):
be better to lose an arm thanend up in really bad spots.
And Jesus himself said then goto the pit of hell with two
members.
Now that's regarding someonethat actually doesn't put their
faith and trust in them.
It's not anything else.
But even a believer can reallyhinder their relationship with

(01:44:00):
God when going down this road.

Yeah, and others, and others.

Yeah, good point.

So, yeah, and it's, it's.
It's just the world we live in.
I mean, my wife was diagnosedwith cancer in 2010.
She went home to be with theLord in 2014.
And that's what motivated her,though, to write, thank you.
You know, she wrote a book justcalled Comforting Christ, and
it's just a cancer devotionalthat she went through, and she
did a blog, but immediately,almost right away you know

(01:44:30):
whether it was through theChristian community or the
doctors they were handing usstuff, and that was 2010.
Yeah, and saying, hey, you needto go to these things, you need
to try these things.
They had groups that were likereiki groups and both my wife
and I just thought, and so shewas trying to find just some
good devotionals, and she said Ican't find a good godly
devotional just trusting thelord through these times,

(01:44:50):
because they all recommend allthis garbage.
Even the christian ones getinto all this weird metaphysical
stuff and and mystical stuff.
So that's what kind ofmotivated her to put the book
together.
Yeah absolutely, and it's justsad because a lot of it looks
scientific.
It sounds scientific and thishas been how Satan.
We talked about evolution.

(01:45:10):
We had a whole series onevolution.
We haven't done one yet onpsychology, but at some point
that is our desire.
Psychotherapy specifically.
A lot of that is under the guiseof science.
Freud when he invented a lot ofthose ideas, he put Greek names
to them to make them soundscientific, when they were
nothing more than shamanistic.
And so you've got a whole realmof the world today that's

(01:45:32):
embraced.
What they think is science, andthe Bible calls it science
falsely so-called or knowledgefalsely so-called.
So we have to use discernmentand, like you said, marcia,
really quickly.
The research is out there.
We have access to the internet,which is full of garbage, but
there is also.
There are scientific thingsstudying herbs and what herbs

(01:45:53):
really work.
You can go research pretty muchanything if you understand what
sites to go to and what to lookat and see whether these things
really work or whether it'sjust a bunch of anecdotal
evidence that some company putsout because they can make money
on it.
And that's really what thecompany a lot of the companies.
They just care about the moneyand they know they could make
lots of money at the stuff.
You get people like dr oz andand other people.

Uh, oh yeah, dr oz is a new ager, he's
admitted he's a follower ofSwedenborg who was kind of the
grandfather of New Thought.
New Thought is a separatemovement from New Age but the
New Age incorporates a lot ofNew Thought which I don't have
time to go into.
New Thought but I do have anarticle on my website on it and

(01:46:37):
doctor, and so there are someNew Age doctors like Dr Oz.
Deepak Chopra no longerpractices medicine, but he's a
doctor from Harvard.
He got his degree from Harvard.
There's several new age doctorsI do.
I want to address somethingthat someone said there, because
that you know, this is a.
This is something that peoplemay be thinking.
What he said he said oh, youmean the medical world that

(01:47:00):
changes boys into girls andgirls into boys, and I think he
made a comment that the medicalworld was demonic.
Let's make a distinctionbetween ethical behavior and
what medicine is OK.
Medicine itself is based onresearch and on the discovery of
God's creation.
That's what science is.
Science is the discovery ofGod's creation and how God put

(01:47:24):
certain laws into effect, and sowe can learn about the body by
observing it, by noticing thingsthat happen with the body when
we're sick.
All of that's been studied andthat's used as research.
And then, when they come upwith medicines, they have to
test them and you know normallythey're careful before they put
it out there for people to take.

(01:47:45):
That's all based on objectivedata.
Yes, there can be mistakes, youknow.
I'm not saying that anything'sperfect, but the but the medical
world in terms of the ethicalpart of it, like doctors who may
do abortions or doctors who do,you know, gender changes and
things like that.
That's a different issue.
That has nothing to do with thefact that medicine is based on

(01:48:08):
objective data and alternativehealing is based on spiritual
views.
That's what I'm talking about.
I'm not endorsing all thepractices of every doctor in the
world that that's their choice,that's an ethical choice that
they choose to do, that that hasto do with a moral principle.

Yeah, that's more of the how.

I'm talking about objective data for
research, so I just want to makethat clear.

That's a good clarity.
I mean, you can't baseeverything off of how somebody
chooses to use medicine.
Yeah, exactly what you're sayingis that the medicine itself is
a different field than thenatural homeopathic world.
And the reason you bring thatup, I think, is fair because
people blur those lines, maybeunintentionally.
They see the destruction of theway medicine can be used.

(01:49:00):
But just like any tool, youcould use a tool poorly, but it
doesn't mean the tool itself ispoor, it just means the person
is poor in it.
That doesn't mean it.
Yeah, anyway we.
I know we're running low ontime, kyle, go ahead well the
problem is their.

Their world view is showing when they do those
things, and just like sinful man, even if they say they're
scientists, whether professor orseminary teacher I mean pastors
like every person, has a heartthat is desperately wicked and
swayed and persuaded by theirown innermost thoughts and

(01:49:38):
individualistic ideas.
And so a scientist can be, youknow, a health practitioner, but
their worldview is skewedbecause they're starting with
the grounds of presupposition.
So it gets, it becomes morereal for me when you start
seeing those things, because itjust reveals the heart of man

(01:49:58):
and not to put our trust in men.
There's quite a bit ofquestions.
I really want to get to yourbook.
Do you have time for maybe twomore questions?
There was one that I don't wantto miss, this one, because I
think this is really interesting.
I don't know if you've heardthis before, but there's a lot
in the scriptures that talkabout casting lots.

(01:50:19):
I mean jonah, I looked it upreal quick jonah 1, 7, uh
numbers 26, joshua 18.
Even the apostles in um in acts1, they cast lots to, to, to
find out who is going to be thenew uh, you know so yes, I can
actually jump into that.

Yes, I actually address that in my book
.

Oh okay.

But yeah, when you look at casting lots in
the Old Testament, apparentlythat was done with gods.
Well, for example, the Umin andThumin which they don't really

(01:51:07):
know what they were, but theythink they were two stones that
were in the priest's garment andcasting lots was apparently
done as a God-directed activity.
It was never against God, itwas a way that people got God's
will and he did that mainly inthe Old Testament.
In the New Testament the partyou mentioned in Acts, they
prayed first and then they castthe lots, and that's the last
time you see Christians castinglots.
That is the last time there isno other mention of Christians

(01:51:32):
doing lots.
I think on Jonah it was thepagan sailors, right who were
casting lots.

Yep.

Yeah, and because it's done by pagans.
Um, so pretty much it's.
It's not done by the churchanymore, because that was the
last time in acts, that's not.
So casting lots is notsomething to do today, because
then you're either doingdivination or you're relying on
chance.
I mean it's okay if it's like,should we go to the movies

(01:52:03):
tonight?
Let's toss a coin.
You know, heads will stay inand watch something on TV, tails
will go out to a movie.
I mean, that's not, that'sdifferent.
That's where you're just, youknow, you're just doing a random
thing because you can't decide.
But if you're really trying toget an answer or determine
something, we don't.
We don't do that kind of thing.

(01:52:24):
That's um, you know, but andgod did, did just things
differently with israel, but henever endorsed any, any
divination.

Now, that was not no , that's clear, that's clear
throughout scripture.
And it's funny, how interestinganyway, how people often will
go back and look at israel,whether it's through some of the
ritual.
You know some of the thingsthat they had to do for their,
for Israel, and they'll try toapply it to today, and there's
reasons.
God had them do what they didand you know they were obviously

(01:52:56):
there.
God's not done with Israel yet.
He's still working with them.
But as a Christian, as aChristian born again, believers,
like you said, that's notsomething that's ever taught,
it's not ever something embraced.
We don't have to build a temple, we don't have to do certain
things to get to God, becauseJesus took care of all that on
the cross.
So there's certain things inthe Old Testament that are

(01:53:17):
historical, they're biblical,they're true, but we don't have
to apply everything from the oldtestament to the new.
Um.
And so, marcia, are you sayingI have to get rid of my magic
eight ball?
Then is that what you're saying?

I the reason I've been asked about magic
eight balls before the reason um, yeah, the reason that I
discourage them is because itgives kids the idea that um, it
gives kids the idea that, um, itgives them the idea that
divination is okay.
It's really not a divinatorytool because it's really kind of

(01:53:54):
silly but it gives the ideathat it's okay to ask an object,
a question, or to think thatgod or somebody is going to
answer you with this object.
So it plants the wrong idea inyour head.
So that's why I do not want toget a magic eight ball for
children.

Yeah, yeah yeah I agreed.
I got a second peter one, uh,pulled up.
It says grace and peace bemultiplied unto you through the
knowledge of god and of jesus,our lord, according as his
divine power has given us untoall things that pertain unto
life.
So we have direct access to thepersonal God that you talked
about, that you didn't know.

(01:54:28):
We have direct access to Him.
And so, again, it becomesreally easy when we trust God's
word.
I mean, it may not say, do Iturn left at the light when I,
you know, pull up here, theBible doesn't say that but as

(01:54:50):
you seek to to magnify the sunin your daily life, things
become pretty easy becauseyou're always thinking kingdom,
minded of glorifying the sun andmaking him known.
And how can I grow in his word?
So you know, when he says he'sgiven us all things to pertain
to life and godliness, it's like, yeah, we can make wise

(01:55:11):
decisions because we have hiscomplete canon, we have his
complete word, exactly.

I really agree with that.
And the more you know scriptureand the more you live, you know
going to church, praying,worshiping with other believers,
fellowshipping with them, andyou know you learn from other
believe, mature Christians too.
And the more you you startthinking a certain way
biblically.
You start thinking biblically,you start assessing things using

(01:55:41):
god's judgment that he'srevealed, and and then you, that
helps you make decisions.
And sometimes it's hard.
Sometimes you don't know shouldI take that job or not.
I don't know.
I'm going to pray about it.
You pray, you're still not sureyou make the best decision you
can and you trust the lord.
You just trust god with it.
You, you know, you say god, Idecided to take this job and not

(01:56:04):
this one.
I'm not sure if that's theright one, but I think it's the
best one.
And please help me do a goodjob with this.
Help me with this.
I trust you in what?
In the outcome?
So it comes down to knowing Godand trusting God and knowing
his word, and that's what getsus through things.
We don't need to be told forevery little thing you know, we

(01:56:25):
don't need to have directionsfrom God, like do I go to a
movie this weekend?
Do I go to my friend's wedding?
We don't have to have that.
You know that's.
That's the pagan world wherethey're always needing.
You know they cause they don'thave any information they always
need input, you know.
That's why they go toastrologers, that's why they go
to psychics, that's why they goto palm readers, because they

(01:56:48):
always need this input.
They don't have any guidance,you know, any broad guidance,
but we have.
We have that in God's word andwe have that through our
relationship with Christ andthrough the church.

So you know, we don't need that kind of input.
And what happens often and asyou're talking, marsha and Kyle,
I'm thinking about this too iswhen you deal with these people
who are saying that you can goto experience, that you can go
to these people and all of theseother avenues other than to

(01:57:20):
God's word, often what you willfind is you will find a lack of
hunger for God's word in yourown life.
You'll find that all theseexperiences become more valuable
and I think that's why peoplekeep going back and back to
these people.
They're looking for that nextexperience, they're looking for
that next fix, because they wantto make sure they're on the
right track and the only waythey can know that is through

(01:57:42):
the experience.
And when you chase that road, acouple of things happen.
Number one, like you said, it'sendless doors, to the point to
where you're lost.
But also you become a bitmindless.
You stop thinking for yourself,you stop engaging your own
understanding and discernment.
That's exactly where Satan wantsus.
He doesn't want us to becritically minded, critical
thinkers, he doesn't want us tobe discerning.

(01:58:03):
And then, as a believer, wehave the Holy Spirit, the spirit
of truth, and we have the wordof God.
And often in these, when you godown these roads, whether it's
following something like JesusCalling or other.
You know the shack or all thosebooks that came out.
People would chase those booksas if they were the Bible, to
the point to where they're noteven reading their Bibles
anymore.
They don't have a love forGod's word anymore.

(01:58:25):
It becomes distasteful to readGod's word and so if you find
yourself getting away from God'sword.
There may be reasons for that.
You might be chasing a rabbitthat you're not supposed to be
chasing down a hole, so just becareful of that getting
distracted.
One of the things we've beentalking about in the classroom
is Satan's lies, because we weregoing through Jeremiah 10, 10

(01:58:47):
through 12, and how God is theGod of creation, he's the
everlasting king, he's the trueand living God.
And these gods that claim arethese gods that have not made
the heavens and the earth.
They shall perish.
And all of these gods weretalking about these false
avenues.
These are all the gods thathave not made the heavens and
the earth and they shall perish.
But God said I formed the worldby, or the world was formed by,
his power and by his wisdom.

(01:59:08):
So you know, we go to God forwisdom, we go to God for our
strength and our security.
But I was telling the kids Isaid but we need to know some of
Satan's basic lies.
So we somebody we listened torecently came up with three Ds.
It's the distraction, thedeception and the destruction.
And so the kids I've beennailing that with them all week,
or going over that with them.
It's just, it comes fromdistraction and as Christians

(01:59:31):
we're so easily distracted.
And once you get distractedinto going to a homeopath or
going to this or doing that, andthen the deception comes, you
leave the door open to thatdeception and eventually there's
a piece of your life that'sgoing to end up being destroyed,
especially our relationshipwith God, and that's what we
don't want.
That's why I'm sure Marciatakes the time to do these kind

(01:59:52):
of talks, even with all thehealth issues and other things,
and that's why we take the time.
We don't want people to bedeceived.

We don't want people to be distracted and we
certainly don't want people tobe deceived, we don't want
people to be distracted and wecertainly don't want people to
be destroyed.
Yeah, I really want to berespectful of your time, so
let's let's close in on tell usabout the re-release of your
book.

Oh yeah, spellbound the Paranormal
Seduction of Today's Kids.
I was actually asked to writethis book out of the blue.
I was so shocked I thought itwas a scam email.
I had to call them and say, didyou actually send this to me?
So I was contacted and they hadthe idea already of what they

(02:00:41):
wanted.
They wanted it to be a guide onunderstanding, seeing the
occult in the culture that isespecially targeting younger
people, children and youngerpeople.
So that's what the book isabout and it came out in 2006.
So now it's being republished,not by Cook, but it's being

(02:01:01):
republished.
Midwest Christian Outreach istaking charge of it.
Don Vino and his wife are thehead of that ministry.
I've known them for many, manyyears and he actually, he and
they and I co-authored theEnneagram book, richard Rohr,
and the Enneagram Secretauthored the Enneagram book,

(02:01:22):
richard Warren, the EnneagramSecret, and so that should come
out.
Spellbound should come outlater this month, tentatively.
It's to come out on October31st Actually, and that's my
birthday, by the way.
Oh happy pre birthday and myson's birthday too.
He was born two weeks early onmy birthday, so that was really

(02:01:42):
a surprise for me and um and so,uh, it's supposed to come out
around then.
So I can't say it's exactlythat day, because I asked don
and he said tentatively that day.
So, um, it should be very closeto that day.
It will have a different covernow.
Right now the book you'reshowing is the way it is on

(02:02:02):
Amazon and you can get it onKindle.
It's very hard to get printcopies.
You have to get them fromsellers and sometimes, for
whatever reason, the prices areastronomical.
I mean like $80 or somethingcrazy.
I don't know how that happens.
So people have been asking me,for especially the last couple

(02:02:24):
of years I've had people emailme and say how can I get a print
copy of your book?
And I didn't have an answer forthat, and so the upshot of that
is that Don very graciouslysaid he would take over
republishing it, and so thatwill be available to use very
soon as a print copy.

Okay, and where do you recommend people going to
get it, do you?
I have the website pulled upright now.

Well, right now I would say, you know for
sure it's going to be on Amazon.
I need to ask Don that question, but I'm sure it'll be
available on other otherbooksellers or, you know, maybe
Christian I don't know maybeChristian book distributors.
I'm not sure I'm going to haveto ask him that question because
I haven't asked him thatquestion actually.
So it's still so unreal to methat it's coming out, but you

(02:03:15):
can at least try Amazon and itmay be.
Don may set up a page for it.
He set up a page for theEnneagram secret book.
So I'm going to be posting onFacebook.
I'll be posting information onFacebook and maybe I'll put a
page on my website too to letpeople know, once we get those
links, we'll put them up too.

We'll put it in the video.
But I highly encourage becauseI mean we talked a lot about
these things and the way thatthis stuff affects the culture.
We barely scratched the surfaceon how ingrained I mean you
mentioned frozen, but it isaffecting the kids, they are
going after the kids and thisstuff is in every Disney movie.
I mean every single cartoonAvenue.

(02:03:59):
Bbc is corrupted and it's, it'severywhere.

It is everywhere Much more, much more
so than when I first wrote thebook.
It's much more more in theculture.
It's much more common now.
There's more forms of it.
It's more popular.
The culture is totallydesensitized to it.
Unfortunately, I think thechurch is getting desensitized
to it.
Unfortunately, I think thechurch is getting desensitized
to it oh, it's so there, yeahit's gonna be yeah, and what you

(02:04:27):
said earlier really shows that.
I think the you know, I thinkthat the book is coming out at a
coming out again in a good timeto I agree yeah no, it's, and
I've just as a testimony.

I I ordered it on eBay a few weeks back when we
knew that you were lined up tobe on our show and I've been
going through it and I will tellyou as a teacher, it's a good
resource book because at the endof certain chapters and
subheadings it's got like, howdo I then apply these things?
It's got some good charts, or acouple of good charts in there.

(02:05:02):
It's got a lot of good littlebullet points, lots of good
scriptures.
So it's easy to pick through,read.
It's a couple hundred pages butit was really easy to read.
Lots of excellent information,well-researched.
I know one of the things I'veenjoyed listening to some of
your programs is the researchthat you do.
You brought up a lot with it, alittle bit today with the

(02:05:25):
Enneagram and people I know Ilistened to some of that.
I didn't.
I knew it was big, I didn'trealize how big, so that's a
whole nother subject.
But that's another area.
That's really just.
You know a lot of the churchesembracing it, some of the stuff
that I see.
You know, what I noticed in thebook is, even though it was
written in 2006, it's addressinga lot of the foundational views

(02:05:46):
that are affecting what we havetoday.
So it's still completelyapplicable 110% applicable to
what we're dealing with today,because it's giving people an
understanding of the basis orthe foundation of where these
things are coming from, of thebasis or the foundation of where
these things are coming fromand when people start to get
that.
And that's where you know withapologetics, a lot of times
people say, well, I can'tremember everything about

(02:06:07):
everything and it's like great.
But if you understand a fewhighlights of the way Satan
works, it helps because then youcan start to catch it in every
area.
And I know you bring up thingslike even Yu-Gi-Oh, which very
few people ever brought up backthen you know there was Pokemon,
digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh and beingin that world I mean I just
lived in that world, being ateacher for so many years and

(02:06:29):
trying to explain to anybodythat I worked with the dangers
of these things and I mean I hada co-teacher.
We taught at a Christian summercamp and there was like 60 kids
that came there and it wasgreat.
But he was into Yu-Gi-Oh and hewas into Pokemon and and I
tried, I gave him art.
There were a few articles Ifound that were really good,

(02:06:49):
from Barik Kojos' site and I,you know, I said, hey, look at
these.
And he just he totallydisagreed and I, it broke my
heart and you know I grabbedthis.
I grabbed this the other dayand you know this is it's not
getting less, you know, lesspopular.
It's all the stuff that thatyou deal with in the book is is
very much relevant for today.

Yeah, thank you for saying that.
And yeah, I do, I do.
I base it all on Deuteronomy 18, 10 and 11.
And I talk about all the termsin there, the Hebrew terms.
I did research it.
I don't.
I you know.
I'm not saying I know Hebrew,but I did research the words
very carefully and had itchecked out.
And you know, because if weunderstand the principles of the

(02:07:32):
occult then we can recognize it.
We don't have to know all thebooks that are bad and a list of
all the you know video gamesthat are bad.
I mean, you could never do that.
But if you know the principlesof the occult and what to look
for, then you can recognize itfor yourself.
And that's what I was trying todo with the book.

That's exactly what people need, because it's good
to know some details, obviously,about certain things if you're
dealing with it with a group ofpeople.
But if you're in a women'sstudy at a church, all it takes
is one person to bring in thenext new thing, because there'll
be no more new things comingdown the pike.
But even though it's a newthing, it's still going to have
those same practices, generallyspeaking.

(02:08:12):
So if you hear that, you go, ohokay, well, no, that doesn't
work for us because we're notgoing to creation, we're going
to the creator.
We're staying with the God'sword.
You, we're going to the creator, we're staying with the god's
word you know, give us the oldpaths, not the new ones.
So right, I really enjoyed thebook.
I actually, like I said, I'mgoing to be passing along to my
um, to my administrator, onlybecause I think she'll recognize
from somebody who's researchedand been in that maybe a little

(02:08:35):
bit, or, you know, she might bea little more open to it, um
than just me talking to her so II really appreciate it, thank
you.

Well, thank you.

Yeah well, thank you so much for this discussion.
Christiananswersnewagecom.
So you can say KANA short, butdon't just Google KANA C-A-N-A,
because a lot of weird stuffcomes in.
I did it earlier and it doesn'twork.

There's a lot of different groups that use
that acronym.

Yeah, there are.
There's a ton, and the same forSpellbound.
When you type in Spellbound andlook for that, make sure you
use her name, marsha Montenegro,because there's a lot of books
titled Spellbound.

There are, oh , there's so many.

Yeah, so everyone go check out and make sure and
be prepared for her republish.
Highly encourage that.
Flynn's deep diving he's got itbehind his head so he's been
reading through that and andMarcia said she's going to share
a copy and so I can dive intoit.
Thank you so much for your time.

(02:09:39):
This has been a really gooddiscussion.
A lot of people on the chatshave been really encouraged and
we're just we're really gratefulfor what you do, because it is
rare and so thank you for fordefinitely encouraging and
serving the church the way youdo.

Absolutely.
I'm grateful God put me in thisministry and he's given me
opportunities like being on yourprogram and more people can get
information and know where togo for more information.
If they want to contact me, youcan email me from my website,
so I'm always open to answeringquestions.

(02:10:11):
So thank you so much for havingme on and I really I enjoyed it
very much good and I would love, I'd love to.

I didn't even think about with the zoom.
I would love to take you up onthe offer from my classroom to
have you do a little talk.
I I would at some point, so Iwould love to talk to children,
teens and young adults.

I really, I'm really like have a heart for
the younger, younger groups, soI will, I would love to do it
sure good, well, we'll work onthat kyle can I?

know scripture, do you mind?

Yeah, yep.
What do you want to close with?

All right If you could go to Proverbs, just been
thinking a lot about the fear ofthe Lord.
I know you quoted from Proverbsearlier.
This isn't probably going todeal too much with the fear of
the Lord.
It will a little bit.

(02:11:05):
But I've reading throughProverbs again, which is just
such a good reminder for me.
But Proverbs chapter seven orchapter eight, actually chapter
eight, and then I think maybe inverse four.
I'm going to start in verse four, so if you want to just open
that up, it says this in versefour unto you, O men, I call and
my voice is.
To the sons of man, O you,simple, understand wisdom and
you, fools, be of anunderstanding heart.

(02:11:27):
Hear, for I will speak ofexcellent things and the opening
of my lips shall be rightthings, For my mouth shall speak
truth, and wickedness is anabomination to my lips.
All the words of my mouth arein righteousness and there is
nothing froward or perverse inthem.
They are all plain to him thatunderstands and right to them

(02:11:51):
that find knowledge.
Verse 10 says receive myinstruction and not silver and
knowledge, rather than choicegold for wisdom Speaking of
heavenly wisdom, by the way,they're not earthly wisdom, but
it says, for wisdom is betterthan rubies and all the things
that may be desired are not tobe compared to it.

(02:12:11):
And then a couple more verses.
Verse 12, I wisdom, dwell withthe prudence and find out
knowledge of witty inventions.
Verse 13 says the fear of theLord is to hate.
Evil pride and arrogancy andthe evil way and the froward
mouth do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and soundwisdom I am understanding and I

(02:12:34):
have strength.
So, just as people are hearingthese things, we need to get
back to God's word for ourwisdom.
We don't have to go to theworld, we don't have to go to
experiences, we don't have to goto the next best Christian
published book.
Immediately we have to go toGod's word with humility and the
fear of the Lord to have truewisdom and understanding.

(02:12:56):
And that's really what Godwants from all of us.
And it's not complicated, it'svery beautiful, it's very simple
, it's just us having a goodgodly relationship with Jesus
through his word and through hisspirit, not through this world
that's fallen.
So that's our encouragement toyou and Marcia.
Thank you so much.
We really do appreciate it.

Oh well, thank you.
Thank you for having me.

All right, guys, until the next stream.
Thank you, subscribe if youhaven't already, and we can't
wait to see you on the next one,doreen Virtue is next Tuesday
night, so make sure and join us.
And we're going to talk about,in series two, the occult in the
church and we're going to deepdive that, so look forward to

(02:13:38):
doing that.
Thank you all and God bless you.
See you all soon.

See you guys, and God bless you.
See you all soon.
See you guys, bye.

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Occultism in the World with CANA - Marcia Montenegro Explains Occult Practices

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