Text with your questions & comments for future episodes!
Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about PCOS Adrenal Health, Cortisol and PCOS, and the PCOS-adrenal connection.
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Theanine: https://s.thorne.com/ABrxm
In today's episode, I'll share not just my personal anecdotes but also dive into the signs, symptoms, and the nuanced process of diagnosing adrenal PCOS. We'll also unpack the role of stress hormones, the relevance of cortisol rhythm over mere blood tests, and discuss why adrenal health matters more than we might think, especially for those of us leading high-pressure lives.
Imagine being a high-flying professional or a dedicated athlete and discovering that your unwavering commitment to success could be silently contributing to hormone imbalances. It's a paradox I see often in my clients, and in this episode, we discuss why individuals with seemingly robust drive and stamina could be more prone to adrenal PCOS. We examine the telltale signs of adrenal imbalance, the surprising connection between past traumas and PCOS, and why even the strongest among us need to heed the call to manage stress.
In the closing chapter of our conversation, we embrace the delicate dance of fertility and menstrual health, confronting the irony that conception might just occur when we ease up on our strict health regimens. I'll also introduce you to my secret allies—rhodiola and ashwagandha—and share how these natural wonders can be instrumental in supporting adrenal function. By the end of this episode, you'll have a trove of lifestyle adjustments and holistic strategies to help you navigate your adrenal PCOS
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Today we are talking about theadrenals.
I was posting a video the otherday about the different root
causes in PCOS and I have thisquiz that people can take where
they can find a percentage ofdifferent root causes they have.
(00:20):
So are they 40% adrenal and 30%inflammation or whatever?
And people love to take it andthen they want to know well, I'm
mostly adrenal, so where do Igo from there?
So I posted this video onInstagram referring them to the
root cause quiz and I'm tryingto put on my stories different
(00:40):
podcasts that they can listen to, and I have a few about insulin
resistance, I have a few aboutinflammation, but when I got to
adrenals I was like where's myadrenal specific podcast?
I could have sworn that at somepoint over the last five, six
years that I've been doing thispodcast, that I had done an
(01:02):
adrenal-specific podcast, butapparently not.
I have talked about theadrenals in different podcasts
and I've talked about stress andthings like that, but I don't
ever think I've done all in oneplace.
This is what we know aboutadrenals and this is what can
help podcasts.
So that's what we're doingtoday.
I'm calling this everythingyou've ever wanted to know about
adrenal PCOS, and that may be areally ambitious topic, but
(01:30):
come along with me and find out.
I'm really glad you're here.
I don't know if I've said thatalready, but I am Thanks for
being here.
Before we get into today'stopic, little updates on me.
Currently I am procrastinatingon cleaning my house.
My in-laws get here tomorrowand there is a lot to do and
instead of doing that, I decidedlet's talk about the adrenals.
So here we are.
And also I made some CheesecakeFactory copycat bread.
(01:52):
You know that bread that theyhave at the Cheesecake Factory,
the brown bread.
Oh my God, I dream about thatbread.
Especially whenever I'm cuttingback on carbs for whatever
reason.
I literally will dream aboutthis bread.
I could live off bread andbutter if it wasn't terrible for
my hormones.
I'd like oh man Anyway.
So since it's a specialoccasion, I made a few loaves of
(02:16):
this copycat and it is reallyreally good.
So if anybody wants that, becareful with it.
It's addictive.
But if you want the recipe, letme know.
I found a really good one.
And this interesting thingabout this bread is that it
looks like it's rye bread butit's actually not.
There's cocoa powder in it togive it the color.
Weird huh.
Anyway, the more you know, so,honestly, that's really all
(02:40):
that's up with me.
The other thing that's going onwith me that I just thought
about is audition week for thenext round of salsa dance teams.
So I am actively auditioning,trying to get on the sophomore
team, which is the second levelup.
In fact, they asked if wewanted to, we could audition for
whatever team.
So I just said, I'm auditioningfor varsity and sophomore
(03:03):
because, reach for the stars.
There's no way I'm getting onvarsity.
I'm not ready, but I'mmanifesting it for later.
One day you guys will come backand I will have a video for you
of me dancing on the varsitydance team.
Anyway, I'm trying to get onsophomore, so wish me luck.
I will let you know next weekif I ended up making it or not.
Psych I actually recorded thispodcast a while ago and the
(03:28):
auditions happened weeks andweeks and weeks ago.
And, yes, I did make thesophomore dance team.
So let's get into today's topic.
We are talking about everythingyou ever wanted to know about
adrenal PCOS and I have notesand I'm going to follow those
notes and just be a good girland not get off topic too much.
(03:49):
So first thing you might bewondering is what are the
adrenals?
And if you're coming to anadrenal PCOS podcast, you likely
already know what the adrenalsare, but if not, here's what
they are.
So the adrenals are theselittle glands that sit on top of
your kidneys and they producevarious stress hormones,
(04:12):
cortisol being the major one.
They also are the site ofcreation of some androgens.
So DHEA is an androgen and, ifyou remember back from what
we've talked about before,androgens are male hormones,
right.
So in PCOS, we tend to talkabout testosterone a lot,
because most of us are dealingwith high testosterone, but not
(04:32):
always.
Some of us are dealing withother androgens that are high,
dhea being one.
So the adrenal glands are thesite of creation for those
hormones.
They're also really key to ourstress and energy balance.
So if you've ever heard ofsomething called adrenal fatigue
, it's really a misnomer,because adrenal fatigue actually
(04:53):
doesn't exist.
But there comes a time, withcertain types of adrenal
dysfunction, where we might endup feeling super, super tired
and drained all the time, andthat's often described by people
as something called adrenalfatigue.
So, coming from the adrenals aswell, it's an important place
for reducing our stress hormones, but also helping us to have
(05:15):
steady energy levels, whichmeans that it's also connected
to how well we sleep and allthat kind of stuff.
So it's an important area, andthe little glands are so tiny
it's amazing how much they cando.
So that's what the adrenals are.
Now, why are we talking aboutadrenals and PCOS?
Well, one of the root causeissues in PCOS is adrenal
(05:38):
dysfunction, and there is a typeof PCOS that tends to more
heavily lean towards the adrenaltype.
What I've noticed over theyears and I think I've noticed
this with myself as well is thatadrenal PCOS there is a
specific subtype of person thattends to be an adrenal PCOS
person.
They almost look a certain wayand have a certain personality.
(06:01):
Even.
It's interesting, but a lot ofus will go through phases where
we are also more adrenallyfocused or we have more adrenal
issues.
So, for example, with me, Istarted out my life as more of
an inflammatory person, movingon to inflammatory and insulin
(06:22):
and then culminating finally nowthat I am in my mid-30s and
have gone through menopause andall of that.
I had a hysterectomy, by theway, surgical menopause, in case
you didn't know.
So now that I'm through thatphase, I am full on in mostly an
adrenal PCOS situation, so I'veexperienced all the different
(06:44):
types, which is so much fun, andnow I bring my insights to you.
So adrenal PCOS, I think, issomething that can affect us at
different phases of our lives,but some people are more it's
more their root cause thanothers.
A lot of us the adrenal stuffdevelops over time due to
different things that mighthappen or to long-term stresses
(07:08):
on our bodies from the otherroot cause issues.
But there are some people whodart out this way and there may
be some different reasons for it.
Of course, some of this, aswith all things with PCOS, is
unknown.
So these are just a lot of thisis opinion and mixed in with
different research and factsthat I've pulled and all that
kind of stuff.
So if you want to know how likelet's say, you have suspected
(07:32):
before that you might be anadrenal PCOS person or you've
heard the term before and werecurious if it applied to you,
how would you find that out, orhow is that measured or
diagnosed to you?
How would you find that out orhow is that measured or
diagnosed?
You're not going to go to agynecologist or an
endocrinologist and no one'sever going to tell you you're an
(07:52):
inflammatory PCOS person oryou're an adrenal PCOS person.
That's not going to happenbecause they don't recognize
these distinctions.
There are certain subtypes ofPCOS, or they call them
phenotypes, that are recognizedin research, but they don't
always 100% correlate with thefunctional nutrition kind of
(08:13):
root cause PCOS issues.
So there is a type of personwith adrenal PCOS who tends to
be on the more type A side, oroftentimes really thin women
with PCOS, I think, lean thisway as well, and they will help
(08:36):
you figure it out by running afew different labs.
So one of the things that theyrun frequently is something
called DHEAS, and remember Isaid that DHEA is an androgen
like testosterone.
Well, dheas is the inflammatoryform of DHEA.
So when we have a lot of DHEA,oftentimes we will shunt that
(08:57):
DHEA into DHEAS.
And it might be useful for meto pause right here and mention
that hormones occur in abreakdown process, so you don't
just like from nowhere make yourestrogen or make your
testosterone or there's not likelittle testosterone factory or
a little a little progesteronefactory is.
(09:18):
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Hormones get complicated.
Basically all of our hormoneswill start as cholesterol and
then they kind of break downfrom there, and there are
different pathways that they canbreak down as.
So there's a pathway that theycan break down and go into being
progesterone.
There's a pathway where theycan go into being DHEA.
There's a pathway where theycan go into being testosterone
(09:41):
and then from androgens,particularly from testosterone,
we will then convert intoestrogens.
So estrogens are the end of theline for hormone processing,
which is why, if our hormonesare out of whack, we will often
start seeing estrogen dominancetype issues, because it's sort
(10:02):
of the end of the line forhormones.
And the adrenal hormones, dheas, are one of these pathways that
cholesterol can take, and sothey may measure something
called DHEAS to find that out.
Another thing that they oftenwill measure is cortisol, and
(10:23):
the weakness with going into adoctor and having your cortisol
run is that they typically willrun a blood lab of cortisol,
right, and it'll be based onwhatever's happening at that
exact moment.
So, very similar to blood sugar, your cortisol levels will
change throughout the day, andso, depending on the time of day
(10:44):
that you have this run, eventhe day of the week, whatever
your cortisol level may or maynot look normal right.
So one underpinning of a lot ofus with PCOS is that we have
high cortisol, we haveimbalances with our cortisol and
it can be really difficult toactually elucidate that from
labs, because if we're justgetting one marker we may not be
(11:06):
able to actually see thatthat's happening.
So those are two big ones thatare bigly run.
They also will run some labslike ACTH, which is
adrenocorticotropic hormone.
I always have to read that onebecause it's so long.
That's a hormone produced bythe pituitary gland that
stimulates the adrenal glands toproduce cortisol.
So sometimes if there's issuesthere, it can be an issue with
(11:30):
cortisol production.
Sometimes they'll measure your17-hydroxyprogesterone because
elevated levels of this canindicate adrenal
hyperandrogenism or congenitaladrenal hyperplasia, which is a
genetic disorder that affectsyour adrenal gland function and
your androgen production, and sothat can be one sort of
alternative pathway to PCOSbecause of those excess
(11:54):
androgens.
But they're not coming fromexcess testosterone through too
much insulin.
They're coming from an issue inthe brain itself and its
adrenal hormone production.
So what I'll tell you that Itypically see as a nutrition
professional is that people arecoming in with DHEAS and maybe a
(12:16):
singular marker for cortisoland not much else they might be
coming in with progesterone too,but progesterone can be all
over the place depending onwhich form is run and what time
of the cycle is run and all thatstuff.
So usually what I'm seeing isthat they're ruling out anything
really major happening with theadrenals, like anything that
(12:39):
they can address from aconventional medical side by
looking at DHEAS and cortisoland kind of seeing where we're
not there, along with the otherPCOS labs.
And so one thing that I like todo, if it's a possibility for
people, especially if theyreally feel strongly that the
adrenals are part of theirpicture, is to run a cortisol
(13:02):
rhythm test, and this is asaliva test.
That the cool thing is thatbecause it's a saliva test, you
can actually do it at home.
They have home kits and I'lllink to one that I like to use a
lot.
But saliva, unlike for otherforms of hormones I don't like
saliva for a lot of differenttypes of hormones, but for
cortisol I like it because itcan give you a better picture of
(13:24):
what your cortisol levels looklike throughout the day, because
you fill these different tubeswith your saliva throughout the
day and it tells you how muchcortisol is in your system.
So typically cortisol is goingto be higher in the morning,
lower as the day goes on, andthere's a rhythm to that.
It's connected a lot to thecycles of sunlight and nighttime
and all of that circadianrhythms, and in a healthy person
(13:47):
it comes up and it going downin the evening is kind of part
of the cascade of differentsignalers that signal to our
bodies that it's time to go tosleep.
So it helps us become sleepy.
All that kind of stuff, andoftentimes this testing can show
issues with adrenals that otherforms of testing have not shown
(14:08):
.
So I wanted to mention that atthe beginning, because if you
feel like you're an adrenal PCOSperson and a lot of this that
we talk about today resonateswith you, but yet you don't have
a high DHEAS result or youdon't have an abnormal cortisol
result, that can be verydiscouraging.
But, as I've stated many othertimes before, when it comes to
PCOS and hormone labs and thingslike that, they're not the end,
(14:31):
all be all.
A lot of people come in andthey're like I don't have any
issues with my testosterone, butI'm growing really thick hair
all over my chin and my neck andthere's what the test says.
And then there's the livedexperience of this person that's
so androgenized, right.
So it's like oh, there's thebreakdown happening.
(14:51):
It's likely with the way we'remeasuring things or with what
we're measuring With the toolswe have, we can clearly see that
the person's dealing with somehyperandrogen issues, which is
one reason why part of thecriteria for PCOS diagnosis is
signs of hyperandrogenism, andthat doesn't necessarily mean
that it has to be on a blood lab.
(15:12):
It can just be by physicalappearance.
So, anyway, that was a bit of arabbit trail, but those are
some labs, and if you have everwondered if this is going on
with you, I highly recommend acortisol saliva rhythm.
The one that I will link toalso runs DHEAS, which is kind
of nice to have too, and it'llgive you details on what's going
(15:34):
on, what your rhythm looks like, and the company even provides
you some supplementation adviceto help balance things out.
There are also nutritionstrategies and lifestyle
strategies that are reallyimportant.
Here, too.
Supplements are not going tofix it, but they can be
supportive on that journey.
So it's nice to have somethinglike that, and it explains
(15:54):
things really well.
I don't know.
I like it.
I use it in my practice,actually, instead of doing my
own thing.
So let's move on.
So let's talk about somesymptoms that are associated
with adrenal PCOS.
I wrote some down because Iwant to make sure that I don't
forget anything.
But, like, officially, on paper, it's going to be the same
stuff as the other, it's goingto be the same PCOS symptoms,
(16:17):
right?
So those with adrenal PCOS canstruggle with their weight, they
can struggle with facial hair,they can struggle with irregular
periods on cystic acne, allthose kinds of things, right.
But what I've seen, that kind ofdistinguishes a client that I'm
working with as an adrenalperson versus an inflammation
person or an insulin person, isnumber one.
(16:39):
Everybody always has a littlebit of all three.
So that's first off, that thosethings are going on.
But I've also noticed somestuff that tends to go along
with this more adrenalexpression.
So I have seen a lot ofathletes and type A
personalities, and I think thiscomes from two places.
Well, one place, the stressresponses, right, but two
(17:02):
different methods of thishappening.
So with athletes it's because,partially probably, personality.
A person who's going to stickwith long-term athletics is a
person with a lot of willpower,a person with a lot of
determination, a person who hasa tendency, a propensity, to
push through pain, and it can bea good thing because it can
lead to better performance andto accolades in that department.
(17:25):
It can also be a really badthing for the hormones.
So I see a lot of athletes orex-athletes like this and this
is a very large percentage of myprivate practice.
I end up seeing people who werecollege, high school or even
pro professional athletes.
I've seen professionalcheerleaders, I've seen cross
(17:46):
country runners, I've seenbasketball players, I've seen
thinking back on it.
It is a lot of endurance typeexercise activities.
Oh, side note, I told you guyslast week in the Exercise and
PCOS podcast that I was tryingto get this PCOS fitness
influencer to come on and sheagreed.
So I will be having a podcastwhere we can pick her brain
about this stuff soon.
(18:07):
But anyway, a lot of athletesand this is probably due to the
fact that long-term pushing,pushing, pushing will lead not
just to increased testosteronelevels but also to increased
cortisol levels and eventuallymaybe some kind of burnout
happening there with the stresshormone responses.
Lot of type A people andoverdoers, and I think this
(18:36):
comes from like chronicoverproduction of stress
hormones, overproduction ofcortisol, adrenaline, just that
kind of anxiety response, Iguess, of life and people are
more.
People with type Apersonalities tend to be more
anxiety driven and people withtype B personalities tend to be
more with the flow, sometimesmore depression driven.
It just depends.
So it just happens to correlatethat I tend to be more with the
flow, sometimes more depressiondriven.
(18:57):
It just depends, so it justhappens to correlate that I tend
to see a lot of these type Apersonality people who are
dealing with adrenal, pcos stuff.
I also see a lot of people withstressful jobs and shift workers
.
So we're looking at a lot ofnurses, teachers, people who are
on their feet a lot or who havea lot of demands on their
(19:20):
energy throughout the day.
For example, a nurse or otherhealthcare professional doesn't
get a lot of downtime and theymay work unusual shifts.
A teacher, same thing.
They don't get a lot of timefor themselves to just zone out,
whereas somebody who works inan office and has a pretty
non-forward facing job mighthave a few hours of the day that
(19:43):
they can edge out or dissociatedisconnect.
A lot of times career pathslike that.
They have to be on most of theday.
That's very draining for theadrenals.
Have to be on most of the day.
That's very draining for theadrenals.
And then I also see a lot oftrauma survivors and there is a
connection between PCOS andtrauma, which I do believe I
have a podcast on.
But those of us with PCOS areoften working with some extra
(20:07):
trauma from childhood or whathave you, and this leads to less
resiliency around stress, andso those who have experienced
things like that tend tostruggle more with their stress
responses and tend to have moreanxiety and also tend to be more
on edge.
That feeling of being on edgeis the feeling of a lot of these
(20:30):
stress hormones being produced.
I remember back in the day whenmy before I went through years
of therapy, my stress responseswere so on the edge of a.
I always said it was like on arazor wire.
It was like such a thin edgewhere any little thing could tip
me into, like I could literallyfeel my cortisol burst in, and
(20:51):
it was uncontrollable in a lotof ways.
I couldn't do anything about it.
I couldn't stop it fromhappening.
It was just a physical reactionhappening to anything that was
potentially going to be adangerous situation.
I was primed to see a lot ofthings as dangerous, and so that
often happens with people whoare trauma survivors of
(21:12):
different kinds, and thatdoesn't mean it needs to be
capital T trauma where, like youknow, you have PTSD from
something really horrifichappening or being a veteran or
things like that, and thatdefinitely can be part of the
picture and often is a moresevere expression.
But the influence of long termof lots of little lowercase t
traumas can also have the effectof influencing your stress
(21:38):
responses.
So maybe not PTSD but CPTSD,right, complex post-traumatic
distress disorder.
I also see, like I mentionedbefore, a lot of women who have
thin PCOS, and this is reallythin.
Pcos is a really controversialtopic, right, because you can
have adrenal PCOS and not bethin.
You can have adrenal PCOS andstill struggle with your weight.
(21:58):
Cortisol can cause a lot ofbelly fat retention, and so
that's definitely going on butnaturally thin women who then
have PCOS for whatever reason.
I tend to see those two thingsconnected with adrenal PCOS a
lot.
There's often some insulinresistance happening there too,
because there is a type ofperson who can be insulin
(22:18):
resistant and yet genetics arepowerful.
So, for whatever reason, theirbody doesn't prefer to store
body fat even though they've gotall that extra insulin, but
nevertheless there's still someinsulin resistance happening and
oftentimes I will see that typeof person being connected more
to these adrenal PCOS responses.
(22:41):
So how do you know that youmight have adrenal PCOS or that
the adrenals may be a big rootcause for you?
Well, first of all, I wouldlook at your responses, to
stress a critical look, and youmight need an objective outsider
to tell you if this is you ornot, especially if you are more
(23:04):
type A or you are thepersonality type where, let's
say, you're in a traditionallywhat would be considered a
stressful job, like teaching ornursing or other kinds of
healthcare work or there arevarious things, but let's say
you're in what's consideredtraditionally a stressful or
difficult job.
You feel that it's notstressful or difficult for you,
(23:26):
you handle it fine.
But if this is where you mightneed an outsider because a lot
of times people who work inthose types of careers, they
don't perceive it as stressfuland yet they are stressed so if
that's you, if you work in oneof those fields, that may be
something to look at there,because there is something where
we can get addicted almost orused to, attenuated to the
(23:49):
feeling of stress hormones andit can make us very.
It can make us to where wedon't notice we can actually get
attenuated to the feeling ofbeing stressed, which can make
it to where feeling stressed andanxious is our normal.
So when we are not stressed andanxious, we feel bored or we
(24:10):
feel exhausted.
So keep that in mind if youwork any type of career like
that and you'll know it if it'syou.
But what I'm looking for whenI'm looking at the adrenals
playing a role is I'm looking athistorical factors.
So I'm taking a history to seeif they've ever done some of the
things we're going to talkabout.
Next of things I've seen withwith adrenal PCOS people, but
(24:33):
things like being an athletegrowing up or working in a high
stress career, et cetera.
So I'm looking for those thingsbecause those can sometimes be
the only clues if there's notother clues.
I'm looking at the traumahistory as well because again,
that can be a clue even ifthere's not other clues.
And I'm looking the absence ofreally severe issues with
(24:56):
insulin or inflammation.
A lot of times the folks withadrenal PCOS who come in to see
me, they have PCOS and they'vegot a lot of symptoms but they
have normal digestion.
They don't really deal withconstipation or diarrhea and
they their blood sugar seemslike fine.
They don't get hypoglycemic orweak and shaky between meals.
(25:18):
Maybe they deal occasionallywith a couple of these things,
but it's not anything where Iwould be like oh yes, definitely
You've got food sensitivitiesor you have food allergies or
something's going on here withyour inflammation levels.
So it's very murky and theydon't really fit really well in
either category.
What I've seen historically withPCOS is that the insulin
(25:43):
resistant PCOS person is prettyeasy to identify.
They're pretty obvious thatthey're insulin resistant
because blood sugar issues areso physical.
They have so many tells rightSkin tags, akithosis, nigricans,
like getting low blood sugarbetween meals and feeling really
weak and shaky, needing tosnack a lot.
These things are really obviousand there tends to be a weight
(26:06):
issue when insulin resistance isa big part of the picture as
well, because it alters cravingsand things like that.
Inflammation is also oftenreally easy to spot because
these people often haveautoimmune conditions
surrounding them or maybe theyhave family histories of
autoimmune conditions or theyhave really awful digestion or
they know they have foodsensitivities and food allergies
.
There's just a lot of immunestuff happening and so that
(26:28):
makes it pretty obvious thatthat's where we need to start,
whereas with adrenal PCOS it'slike nothing is really screaming
except the fact that thisperson seems like they are
probably under a lot of stress.
And bonus points if they'reunder a lot of stress but they
don't realize they're under alot of stress.
So the single most, I guess,important factor for me as a
(26:49):
functional nutritionist, whenI'm looking like where should I
go, is this person adrenal orare they not adrenal?
Nutritional nutritionist, whenI'm looking like where should I
go, is this person adrenal orare they not adrenal?
Is how do they handle stressand how do they handle their
life.
And I mean life is hard right,and so these people tend to
really impress you with theirability to handle it all and
(27:09):
manage it all and oldestdaughter syndrome, right, all
that kind of stuff and shout outI'm the oldest daughter too.
So I get it, but I'm actuallymore.
I used to be.
I think you would classify meas type A before.
And then something happened tome over the last several years
and now when I took a quiz theother day, I'm like am I type A
or type B?
(27:30):
Because that's me 10 years agoand I would have said I'm type A
, but now I'm like I think I'mtype B and according to this
quiz I'm type B.
So it doesn't make sense to meanymore, but it used to.
Oftentimes that's a traumaresponse.
Anyway, guys, mercury isretrograde and whether you
believe that or not, I can tellyou that as a practitioner of
(27:51):
online, of the online arts, itdefinitely is.
Real Website was down thismorning for no reason, literally
no reason.
I contacted the host he'sBluehost for hosting and they
were like yeah, we don't know,probably your internet
connection, and it was.
It was my internet connection,just didn't want to load my
website.
But it was loading everywhereelse on everybody else's
(28:13):
internets and my internet wasalso loading other websites,
just not my website.
So that was fun.
And the other thing thathappens during Mercury
retrograde is that I start tofall more into word salad, and
that is definitely what's goingon, even though I have great
notes here, but anyway, I'msorry, it's a little rambly
today.
(28:33):
What's going on, even though Ihave great notes here, but
anyway, I'm sorry, it's a littlerambly today.
So how do you know your adrenalPCOS?
Well, how do you handle stress?
Are you totally overwhelmed byyour life?
And or are you so on top ofyour life that everything is in
its place, and how are your PCOSsymptoms and do you struggle
(28:53):
with inflammation or insulinresistance type stuff or not?
And I will caution you to saythat it's much more rare to be
an adrenal only or an adrenalprominent person, especially
pre-menopause.
So as we age we tend to getinto more adrenal stuff because
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the exhaustion of life tends tocatch up with us, but in your
younger years it's a lot morerare to be an adrenal first
person.
I think being an adrenal firstperson is more attractive type
for PCOS because it has less todo with your diet than the other
ones, I think, and so peoplecan wrap their head around the
(29:38):
solutions for it a little biteasier, or it just seems a
little bit more, I don't know Tome.
I get the sense that people findthe adrenal PCOS to be a little
bit more glamorous than insulin.
Right, but the reality is thatthe other two root causes do
play a big role in your adrenalhealth, and so if you've got a
(30:00):
lot going on with insulin andinflammation, you should really
probably start there, work onthose things first, because
those things will probably helpyour adrenals, and then if
you've got a lot of adrenalstuff after that point, then you
can move on and work on some ofthis stuff.
But work on those things firstwould be my advice, and then, if
you don't have a lot going onwith those other things, then
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this is where I would start.
Have a lot going on with thoseother things, then this is where
I would start, and oftentimeswhat I've noticed is that the
people who need to work on theadrenals the most are the least
attracted to working on theadrenals.
So if meditating or doingactivities that are stress
reduction activities fills youwith dread, or you're like, oh
my God, or you roll your eyes ather, you're just like no, I
cannot, I can't sit still, Ican't calm my mind, I can't that
(30:43):
.
Or you roll your eyes at her,you're just like, no, I cannot,
I can't sit still, I can't calmmy mind, I can't that.
Abe, you may be an adrenalperson, because it's oftentimes
the things that we don't want todo the most that are the things
that we actually need to do.
Same thing goes for likeinflammation and adrenals.
I find that my inflammationpeople are the ones who least
want to do a gluten dairy-freetrial.
My adrenal people ask them toremove any food and they're like
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sure, I'll take out eggs, dairygluten, I'll make a meal plan
for myself.
You don't even have to do it,I'll eat this many calories and
this many grams of protein.
Adrenal people will do that allday, right, but they won't sit
down for 20 minutes and do aguided meditation the
inflammation.
People will do lots of guidedmeditations and they really will
(31:26):
struggle with removing certainfoods.
I don't know, it's just humannature or something.
I'm not sure what's going onthere, but there's definitely
something to it.
So how do you know you haveadrenal PCOS?
Well, do you have high DHEAS?
Do you know you have cortisolissues?
Some signs of cortisol issueswould be issues with sleep
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dysregulation.
So if you get a second wind atnight and you get really like
you're sleepy at like 11 pm, butthen at 10 or 11, you're like
bing, I'm awake and you can'tfall back asleep, so you
struggle with sleep.
Or if you get a really badenergy dip in the middle of the
day and it's not connected towhat you're eating which is key,
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it's not connected to whatyou're eating then those are
often signs of cortisol issues,which can be earlier stages of
adrenal stuff.
So that's how you know and Irecognize it's kind of hard to
know, right, it's more murkythan other things.
And if that's very you know andI recognize it's kind of hard
to know, right, it's more murkythan other things.
And if that's very frustratingfor you, you may be an adrenal
PCOS person, because murkinessand non-black and whiteness is
(32:32):
often really frustrating for myadrenal PCOS people.
They want answers and they'rewilling to work hard for
solutions and the fact thatthere are no specific set in
stone solutions for the adrenalsis really tough for them, and
rightfully so.
It makes total sense that it'stough but anyway.
(32:52):
So oftentimes people are curiouswhere this might come from,
because it's so different frominsulin and inflammation.
Insulin is kind of obvious theimpact of our environment and
the way that you're fed, growingup and all of that, and paired
with your genetics, I can seehow it can get worse with age
Inflammation.
Same thing Say, you're bornwith a dairy intolerance and you
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continue.
This is speaking fromexperience.
You continue.
You're a millennial and soyou're raised having to drink a
carton of milk every day atlunch and that screws up your
gut.
Those things are a little bitmore obvious how they might
impact your natural geneticpredispositions.
But adrenals are a littledifferent, a little interesting
right?
And besides the impact oftrauma, obviously, which is one
(33:37):
we've talked about before, whatare some other ones?
So there's something calledimpact on fetal programming and
this is something about when youare in the womb, so you're in
your mother's room.
There's some evidence that fetalexposure to cortisol they call
this programming can affect thedevelopment of various organ
systems, including the ovaries.
High levels of cortisol duringcritical periods of fetal
(33:59):
development may disrupt normalovarian development and hormone
regulation, potentiallycontributing to features of PCOS
.
Another thing is with cortisolin particular.
It's a steroid hormone, so it'sproduced in response to stress.
Prenatal exposure to excesscortisol can disrupt the balance
of other hormones, includingandrogens and insulin, which are
(34:21):
known to play a role in thepathophysiology of PCOS.
So the cortisol, potentiallyraising the androgens signaling
the PCOS cascade, start in thewomb.
Elevated cortisol levels duringfetal development may contribute
to insulin resistance in theoffspring.
Insulin resistance is a commonfeature of PCOS and is
associated with abnormal glucosemetabolism and hyperinsulinemia
(34:43):
, which can further exacerbatethe hormone imbalance
characteristics of the syndromeand then inflammatory responses.
So cortisol hasanti-inflammatory properties and
that is true, people alwaysthink it's super inflammatory,
but it actually can be veryanti-inflammatory when in the
right amounts.
But prolonged exposure to highlevels of cortisol can lead to
chronic low-grade inflammation.
(35:05):
Inflammation is believed to beinvolved in the development of
PCOS and its associated symptoms, including insulin resistance
and ovarian dysfunction.
So you can see how the othertwo root causes are playing a
role even in the womb, right,but they're triggered by the
start of that cortisol and Iwouldn't be surprised if a lot
of women with PCOS, even whenadrenals are not their main
(35:25):
issue, are dealing with someinfluence of this from the womb.
It brings me back to thinkingabout genetics and how we know
that trauma responses can getpassed down through different
generations, right?
So we're working with a reallyunhealed world right now.
I think my generation and thegenerations around my age, gen X
(35:46):
and below have and shout out tosome of you, baby boomers are
working on this too.
I don't want to leave you out,but a lot of Gen X and
particularly millennials, gen Zet cetera, are really working
hard and trying to stop thecycle of these sort of traumas
and things, to stop passing downthis stuff, these ill-adjusted
(36:08):
ways of having relationshipswith others, but a lot of us are
working with parents,grandparents and other relatives
who aren't working on that atall or don't know to care, and
so if your mom was reallystressed out during pregnancy
because she was dealing withsome mama responses that she
(36:28):
didn't even know, right, thereare many reasons why a mother
could be exposed to a lot ofcortisol, could have a lot of
cortisol during pregnancy.
But you can see how thesethings are.
It's murky, right, and it couldbe part of the picture.
So I just thought that wasinteresting.
I thought I'd share that,because we don't often talk
about the influence of the wombon PCOS, but it definitely is
(36:49):
there and it'll be interestingto see more research on that,
because that's still adeveloping thing.
There's not a lot of researchon that, but interesting.
So another question I get a lotabout the adrenals is how does
adrenal PCOS affect fertilityand menstrual cycles?
So I've seen that my clientswith adrenal PCOS tend to,
(37:12):
especially around the time whenthey're trying to get pregnant.
They tend to struggle a lotwith getting pregnant, even
though they're doing everythingright.
So this is when I see peoplewho are managing for
inflammation, they're managingfor insulin resistance, they're
eating a perfect diet, they'retaking their OPKs and they're
doing all the stuff and they'rehaving a lot of times.
These people have regularcycles and do ovulate, but
(37:33):
sometimes not.
But you're doing all the rightstuff.
They're very good clients.
Adrenal PCOS people if youwould come work with me
one-on-one, you're welcome to.
They're very good clients, knowPCOS people if you would come
work with me one-on-one, you'rewelcome to.
They're very good clients.
They always do what you askthem to do.
They're the type of people whoare like give me a plan, I'll
follow it.
A lot of times and unfortunatelywith the adrenals that
(37:53):
sometimes following a big planlike that and having all these
things that you have to takecare of and all these little
it's such little surges ofcortisol throughout the day
Waking up at 5 am to take yourtemperature is a little stress
on your body that negativelyimpacts fertility.
So I find that oftentimes theseare my clients who they work
really hard and it's not untilthey give up on all the tracking
(38:15):
and all the working hard andstart eating a little bit more
carbs and things like that thatthey actually get pregnant
accidentally.
It's one of life's cruel jokes.
So where I think we can accountfor this or measure for this or
find a happy medium where youdon't have to be throwing the
towel completely, is that youcan add in specific
stress-reducing modalities tohelp with fertility, and this
(38:38):
can go for also regularity withovulation and regularity with
menstrual cycles and reductionof PCOS symptoms too.
So it's not just if you'retrying to get pregnant.
Working on fertility helpseverything.
So where I've had a lot ofsuccess with this as a
practitioner is having peopleincorporate acupuncture or some
other sort of stress-reducinghealing modality.
So I've even seen people who doreally well with Reiki.
(39:01):
There were some cool studiesthat came out about Reiki
recently.
Lots of benefits from that,even though they don't know why,
which we could get into atanother time.
But acupuncture, reiki, evenwhatever is interesting to you
chakra healing, lymphaticmassage there's all these
different modalities.
But the thing they have incommon is they're relaxing and
(39:21):
they give you, like you know, anhour where you just have to be
still and let yourself bepampered a little bit, and
that's good for your hormones.
It really is.
And also that's not to discountthose modalities or other
things to them.
I'm a believer.
Anyway, it's mercury retrograde.
So if I say anything out ofturn and it sounds bad.
(39:42):
I promise I don't mean it bad.
I just things come out wrongduring this time.
It's not the best time,probably, to be recording a
podcast.
All right, I don't have a tonof time left on the timer here,
so let's get into what we can dofor adrenal PCOS.
There are specific lifestyleand supplementation things that
I like to use in practice thatwork really really well for
(40:03):
managing adrenal PCOS.
So the first thing avoid fasting.
If you think even slightly thatyou might be an adrenal person,
don't play with fasting, justdon't do it.
It's just not going to behelpful.
When we don't eat, if weexperience stress during that
time, our bodies will spike ourblood sugar anyway Because,
remember, we store sugar in ourmuscles and our liver.
(40:25):
So if you are prone to little,you have a stressful job, or
you're prone to little spikes ofstress because you have anxiety
or whatever, they're going toget triggered whether you eat or
not.
So it's much better to eat andgive your body a little bit of
that calming influence ofstarches can be very calming.
Give your body protein, thatcan be very calming.
(40:45):
Your stress responses are goingto respond a lot better to that
than skipping meals, especiallybreakfast.
Please don't skip breakfast andplease don't drink caffeine on
an empty stomach.
That is so, so bad for youradrenals.
If you're going to havecaffeine, especially if it's
going to be coffee or somethinglike that please make sure that
(41:09):
you have it with a meal.
It's just not good for yourblood sugar and it's not good
for your stress hormones.
Same thing goes for matcha is alittle different.
Like you're making a full onlatte and there's like milk
involved and you know that couldbe an okay breakfast.
You put collagen in it and allthat.
But if it's just black coffee,please don't do that.
Don't do that bullet coffeeeither.
Regular and consistent mealtimings this kind of goes along
(41:31):
with it.
But there is something abouteating on time that is very
calming for the body.
The body likes to know what toexpect and that stability.
It's almost like if you thinkabout a child and how children.
They like to push up againsttheir boundaries, right, but
they like to have the boundarytoo.
They like the stability of thecocooning of like this is right,
(41:54):
this is wrong.
This is yes, this is no.
Let me play around with pushingthose boundaries.
I like the boundary, I likehaving boundaries right.
The body's the same way when itcomes to food.
Don't leave me hanging.
When are we eating?
Again?
You know what I mean.
The body gets stressed out whenit's like I don't know where my
next meal is coming from orwhen it's coming, because if you
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have a very sensitiveconstitution, you could
interpret that as starvation orfamine, and a lot of people
think that those with PCOS areworking with some real ancient
genes that go back to lots ofdifferent famines and that it
might be some sort of responseto that.
So don't freak your body out bynot ever letting it know when
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it's getting a meal.
Try to have regular, consistentmeal times within an hour every
day.
I usually, with my adrenalpeople, like to do three meals,
two snacks or at least one snack, but we're working with
breakfast, lunch, dinner andthen maybe an afternoon snack
and, yeah, that seems to workreally really well and that's
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almost more important than whatyou eat is that you are eating.
If that makes sense.
Now, if you've got a lot goingon with your blood sugar and
stuff like that, then there maybe some modifications that need
to happen, because you mightfind that that doesn't work
really well for you.
You start gaining weight orthings like that.
But if you're an adrenal person, it will work.
If you work out, eat a mealafter, and it doesn't need to be
(43:19):
a big meal, but eat somethingwith protein at least preferably
protein and a little bit ofstarch after a workout.
If it's just like liftingweights at the gym for 45
minutes or the elliptical orsomething, just a protein shake
will suffice.
If you do something like youknow I dance, or I was talking
to a client today who playstennis If you do something more
intense like that, then a littlemini meal is probably better.
(43:42):
That's going to help bring yourcortisol levels down.
So that's really key.
If you get stressed out, youfeel that ping of stress.
Right when you feel thatanxiety or that little feeling
in your body of your stresshormones rising, do some
exercise.
Doesn't need to be anythingcrazy.
Go walk around the block, dosome jumping jacks, do some
(44:03):
pushups in place anything youcan do to get your heart rate up
and then let it calm down.
That will help your stressresponses come down quicker.
It'll also burn up some of thesugar that you're automatically
going to release in response.
Remember that our body releasessugars when it gets stressed
because it's to give you energyto flee, and a lot of times what
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we do is we just sort ofinternalize it and we just sit
there still.
But it's very similar to whenyou're going to give a speech or
something like that.
You just want to pace.
Well, your body when it getsstressed, it wants to pace, it
wants to jump, it wants to move,it wants to use that energy and
it'll help your stress hormonescome back down faster if you
indulge that.
(44:45):
So even something they taughtus in my master's program was to
shake.
Animals will shake afterthey're like you'll see an
antelope and he's like comingfrom a line, and then, once he's
safe, he just like shakes andthen he's back to normal and
you're like what that's?
That?
Shaking calms the nervoussystem, so it can be very
effective for cortisol.
Make sure you balance your bloodsugar.
(45:07):
I won't go into a lot of depthon that, because I talk about
that all the time.
Listen to any of my podcaststhat even remotely concern
insulin to find out how tobalance your blood sugar.
But blood sugar also helpsprevent so many spikes, right,
and that's going to help as well.
And then make sure you're alsolooking more deeply at the base
of the pyramid.
Remember the priority pyramid Italked about a couple of weeks
(45:30):
ago.
Make sure you're addressing forthe.
Remember that the adrenals arein the middle and so often
there's deeper stuff going onwith the gut or the immune
system and even the cellularhealth, so nutrient deficiencies
and things like that.
So make sure you double checkthere with your diet and pay
(45:53):
attention to your gut health andall of those things.
Because if those things are notbalanced already, you may be to
the point where you alreadyhave them balanced and whatever,
and that's fine, work on youradrenals.
But if those aren't balanced,you really need to work more on
that stuff, because working onthe adrenals is not going to be
as effective.
For those things it will help,but it's more effective to do it
(46:14):
the other way around, if thatmakes sense.
Those things, those are themajor things that I would have
you do from a lifestyleperspective.
The other things that I wouldsuggest doing, if it's in your
budget, is incorporating atleast one other alternative
healing modality.
That's very relaxing.
(46:36):
So this could be anything fromso.
Lately I've been going to asauna studio which is not budget
friendly.
I'm probably going to have tocancel it soon, but, oh my God,
it's so, so nice.
I get my detoxification out ofthe way.
So it serves a purpose, becauseI know you want it to serve a
purpose, but it's also just sorelaxing, because it's like 45
(46:58):
minutes to yourself in a warmroom.
Even better, though, if you cando something where it's another
person kind of showing you loveand care and attention, because
there's something about thatexchange that's really healing.
So Reiki acupuncture is the onethat actually has scientific
evidence behind it, a lot ofscientific evidence behind it,
(47:19):
but I think you get a similareffect from a lot of these
different things.
So if you're trying to getpregnant, acupuncture, don't
just acupuncture, do it.
But if you can go, do somethinglike that once a week and that
is going to help you so, so much, and I know it doesn't seem
like it will, but it absolutelywill.
The other thing is, if possible, daily meditation is really
(47:41):
going to help reprime thosestress responses.
I know that seems sooverwhelming when you have
adrenal issues, because it'skind of scary to have to sit
still with your thoughts and allthat.
So one of the things that Itypically recommend are these
guided meditations for PCOS.
It's not me, I didn't make it,although in one of my courses
there is a guided meditation forPCOS in my functional PCOS
(48:03):
course.
But this is another mind-bodypractitioner who specifically
has made all these really niceguided meditation series for
PCOS.
They're a little pricey I wantto say 60 bucks or something but
they're worth it becausethey're really involved.
There's a lot of stuff andthey're very specific for PCOS,
so I will link to some of thosebecause I really like those and
(48:24):
I used those while I was goingthrough IVF, the cycle that
worked.
Now I'm not superstitious andI'm not saying that that's why I
got pregnant, but I do think ithelped me a lot because it
helped me visualize myself aspregnant and that's really key.
The brain is really powerful.
So something like that everyday.
It doesn't have to be a PCOSguided meditation, but if you
(48:47):
struggle a lot with meditationin general, a guided meditation
is going to be very helpfulbecause it's going to tell you
what to think about rather thanyou having to just sit there and
try to clear your mind.
I'll link as well to some booksthat I really like on this
topic that can help you figureout what to do here.
Maybe I will do another podcastspecifically on line body
(49:08):
techniques that are helpful.
Let me know if you want to seethat.
The last things I want to talkabout are supplements, and
really I have some go-tos.
I don't think that we alwaysneed supplements all the time,
but I do think supplements canbe really supportive of the
adrenals in particular.
If we're doing all the otherthings, then adding supplements
(49:30):
can really really take us to thenext level.
So magnesium, magnesiumglycinate this is a muscle
relaxant, helpful for mineralrepletion.
Ultheanine is my favorite forcalming us down if you get
anxious, and also before bed.
I think it's really nice.
I'm going to link to all ofthese.
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By the way, rhodiola is an herbthat is great for balancing
adrenal responses.
I often use it in the favor ofenergizing, so if you struggle
with low energy at differenttimes of the day, I like
rhodiola a lot.
It can be very helpful.
And then ashwagandha is onethat I use a lot for calming of
(50:11):
the nervous system.
So if you do have a lot of highcortisol issues, I like
ashwagandha a lot and I foundthis to be really effective with
adrenal PCOS.
So I'll link to some of myfavorites.
I also have a blend of somestuff that I use a lot called
cortisol calm, but anyway, wecan go into more in depth on any
of this stuff.
If you guys didn't get all yourquestions answered, so let me
(50:34):
know.
But that's all I have for youtoday on the adrenals.
I hope it helps and or at leastI hope it kind of gives you
some new information to thinkabout on your own journey.
So thanks for being here todayand I'll see you next week.
Bye.