March 25, 2024 • 41 mins
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Have you ever felt trapped in a cycle of binge eating and dieting, unsure how to break free and find peace with food? Today we are joined by Mikaela Schifferle from KJ Wellness and the Naked Wellness Podcast on her remarkable story of triumph over a troubled relationship with food and body image. Together, we dissect the tangled web of nutrition, satisfaction, and the nuances of eating mindfully. Michaela's expertise shines as we navigate the importance of protein, healthy fats, and fibrous vegetables, particularly for those managing insulin resistance. Her approach? A nourishing balance of foods that don't just fuel the body but also gratify the soul.
Turning the page to a chapter many of us can relate to, we probe the sensitive intersection of body image and health, casting a spotlight on the unique struggles my clients with PCOS face. This conversation is a candid exploration of the deep-seated beliefs that often tether self-worth to our physical form, and how shifting these perceptions can lead to a more compassionate self-narrative. The strategies we share are designed to rewire the core beliefs about self-worth and prioritize comprehensive self-care, helping to redefine what health truly means and how it feels to embrace yourself fully.
Mentioned in the Episode:
Books-
When Food is Love: https://amzn.to/3IUgzJG
Just Eat It: https://amzn.to/3x85xxU
Connect with Mikaela here-
KJ Wellness: https://kjwellness.com.au/
@kjwellness on instagram: http://www.instagram.com/kjwellness
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amber Fischer (00:00):
Welcome back to an Amber a day, the functional
nutrition podcast.
I'm your host, amber Fisher,and today I've got a very
special guest.
This is Michaela shiffer Lee ofKJ wellness, and Michaela
specializes in food freedom andrecovery from binge eating.
She's a really interesting andunique perspective and message,
so I'm really excited to talk toher because I know this is
(00:21):
something that a lot of my PCOSClients and listeners have dealt
with.
It's very common in ourcommunity, so Let me introduce
you, michaela.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself Amazing.
Mikaela Schifferle (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me here.
I'm so excited to chat aboutthis topic because, you're right
, there are so many people thatdo experience this.
So a little bit about me.
I run KJ wellness, which is mybusiness, which helps young
women to stop binge eating, healtheir relationship with food
and, honestly, it is my pride ofpassion.
I personally have been throughmy own journey with having a
(00:58):
terrible relationship with food,a terrible relationship with my
body and Binge eating, and socoming out the other side of
that, where now I do havecomplete control, I was like
this this needs to be somethingthat every single woman
experiences, right?
Because that freedom that youhave is just so incredibly
powerful and I mean I candefinitely Dive into what that
(01:18):
journey is if that's somethingthat yeah, yeah, I would love to
hear that.
Amber Fischer (01:22):
Tell us a little bit more about that.
Mikaela Schifferle (01:24):
Cool.
So, going right back to thebeginning, when I was in high
school, I got really, reallysick with a parasite and I lost
a lot of weight very quickly andit was obviously very unhealthy
because everything I ate cameback back up or out One end or
the other, and so obviously nota healthy way of losing weight.
But I was at that ripe age oflike 15 16, and so I started
(01:47):
getting compliments oh my god,you look amazing.
How are you losing all theweight?
That's great.
And so in my head I started tobe like, oh my god, when I look
a certain way, I'm now moreaccepted.
I get compliments right frompeople.
So this then started to teachmy brain that the smaller I am,
the more accepted by mycommunity and society I'm gonna
be.
So once.
(02:08):
I obviously had to get betterfrom being so incredibly unwell.
The weight gain started to comeback on, which it needed to,
because I was obviously nowunderway, because I'd been so
sick.
But as that weight gain came on, it's borrowed these unhealthy
thoughts of oh my goodness, whatif people no longer accept me
anymore.
So that's when I started toenter the world of Dieting
restrictive eating, like youname it.
(02:29):
I probably have tried.
I tried everything under the Sunto maintain this really
unsustainable weight for my body, and it's borrowed into having
a really unhealthy relationshipwith food.
I was thinking about food 24 7.
I was exhausted, I lost myperiod, I would have binge
eating episodes.
It just it was consuming everywaking thought of every day.
(02:50):
I was scared to go out andsocialize and eat out with
friends like it was really,really consuming, and so I
Started stunning eventmanagement, actually, but I was
like this is way too stressful.
So I was like I'm reallyinterested in health and fitness
why I said stunning nutrition?
And that was a reallyinteresting journey in itself,
because you learn so muchinformation as a nutritionist
(03:13):
and a dietitian that then youbecome almost obsessed with
everything being healthy.
It's like I can't have x, y,zed and pop things in different
food groups and all like it'sjust, it's a lot.
So, coming out of that, I thenactually worked in Weight
Watchers for four years and thisis when I actually started to
go through my own journey ofhealing my relationship with
food, because I got to thispoint when I was like I actually
(03:35):
can't live my life like this.
I am mentally and emotionallyexhausted and physically
exhausted and I'm missing out onactually living my life.
And so, through Weight Watcherswhich was very eye-opening what
I say in the world that theselarge weight loss companies,
they, they pry on women'sinsecurities and vulnerabilities
and they make us feel likeabsolute Crap and that our
(03:59):
self-worth is only dictated bynumber and a.
Being an employee there, youalso have to weigh in, you also
have to maintain a particularweight, and so you know I was
trying to go through thisjourney of healing my
relationship with food andthey're there.
Like you need to hop on thescales and if that number had
gone up or down there, like weneed an action plan Of how
you're gonna get that back tothe right, point right.
Like you had yet no idea.
Amber Fischer (04:21):
That's some tea, mikaela, I know.
Mikaela Schifferle (04:25):
And so I was like that this is, this is
messed up.
And the turning point for mewas when I had a it's 70 she was
maybe like 65 to 70, I can'tremember exactly her age and
she'd come in and she hadfluctuated on the scale a couple
of hundred grams and she stoodthere and she just broke down in
tears and she was going on aholiday with her husband to
Europe and she was like, oh, mygoodness, you know, the scales
(04:47):
have gone up a little bit.
I don't want to go there, Idon't want to eat the pizza in
the past.
Like what if I come back andI've gained all this weight?
And her husband had actuallysaid to her I will not sacrifice
this holiday for your weightloss goals, you know, I want to
go there and enjoy all of thesefoods.
And she was so petrified.
It was literally impacting herrelationship and her holiday and
I was like that this is sowrong.
You know you need to be able tolive your life and that's when
(05:09):
Leisure.
I'm pretty sure I went home andresigned that day and that's
where then I started my business, kj wellness, where I was like
I need to help women get to thispoint that I had now actually
got to as well, where I hadcomplete control of food I had
I'd like on against weight,which is let's weigh in, I was
like, absolutely not like.
That's not myself work.
You know, it doesn't reallymatter.
At the end of the day, I'mhealthy and I know I'm healthy
(05:30):
and that's where I've now beenable to help over 270 plus women
to Stop the binge eating, healtheir relationship with food,
have that confidence in theirbody, not attach their
self-worth to a number or On thescales or a number on a piece
of clothing as well, andhonestly like it is my pride and
passion and I am so againstrestrictive diets.
They are like out the window.
(05:51):
We're not here for them.
Amber Fischer (05:52):
That's really, really fascinating.
I think it it Resolidifies forme how often I hear this very
similar theme from practitionersthat what inspired them to get
into their work in the firstplace was their own struggle
with that particular issue.
And I do have this little pettheory that I think some of us,
who are meant to kind of behelpful and be healers and you
(06:15):
know, in our lives we're almostgifted these experiences so that
we can have true, profoundempathy, because you know, if
you hadn't gone through that, Iwonder what your perspective
would be.
Because, like you said, whenyou become a Nutritionist or
dietitian you go through all ofthat schooling.
I find that people can go one oftwo ways.
(06:36):
It's either they they get evenmore, like you said, restrictive
.
They it's like you know toomuch, and so you end up over
obsessing about every littledetail, stuff that the average
person wouldn't even, itwouldn't even be on their radar.
Or you can go in the completeopposite direction and just be
like you know what I know, andthis is kind of how I am.
(06:57):
Every food, literally everyfood, could be positive or
negative for a person, dependingon their environmental context,
their underlying health, theirhistory, like so many factors go
into it right.
So it almost doesn't make senseto have any foods and good or
(07:17):
bad categories, because really,at the end of the day, all foods
are nuanced Like there's a lotof gray area in nutrition, you
know.
So that's really interesting.
Also, what you said aboutWeight Watchers, I had no idea
they made people weigh in,that's crazy.
Wow, honestly, yeah, that's soinsane we do have to live and
pray there.
Mikaela Schifferle (07:37):
The interesting thing is that a lot
of the coaches that they havethey are women who have gone
through the weight loss journeyand have lost weight themselves
on that journey, right?
So then one of the things thatI had a problem was they get
then get up and they preachexactly what they had done.
But the thing is everyone's soindividualized and what works
(07:58):
for them might not work for thenext person, so then people are
trying these things that thendoesn't actually work with their
lifestyle or their body, sothen they end up bingeing or
they end up having a reallyterrible relationship with food,
and it's only fueling this fireof having an unhealthy
relationship with themselves andfood.
Amber Fischer (08:14):
Absolutely.
I think that comes into playfor PCOS a lot, because there
are a lot of content creators inthat, in this niche, that are
also like lifestyle creators,who are people, women with PCOS,
who have had some sort ofsuccess story through their own
(08:36):
methods, and then they make thatfundamental mistake of
believing that, because they didit a certain way and it worked
for them, that this is the waythat it should be done for
everybody.
And then when people arehurting and confused and don't
have answers, they reallygravitate to people who seem
like they have all the answers.
(08:57):
But really what one person'sexperience, like you said, is, I
mean it might work for you butrealistically, like the chances
of the exact process that oneperson used to work on their
hormones or weight loss in thisexample, it may or may not
(09:19):
actually be the right thing foryou or make any difference
whatsoever.
I've even seen people go thecomplete opposite of what
they're trying to do byfollowing certain things.
Like an example that I like togive is I know this person who
has done the carnivore diet fora while and, to be fair, I mean
(09:47):
she looks amazing, she's verystrong, she does a lot of
weightlifting, powerliftingstuff and she's convinced this
is the thing, this is the answerand at least for the mean, like
for now, it seems like it'sworking really well for her.
(10:08):
But I really shudder when Ithink about, like, other women
with PCOS trying something likethat because, you know, number
one I just don't think thatthat's a healthy, sustainable
way of eating at all.
But number two, like, even ifit was, like it's just really so
ridiculously restrictive and itreally wouldn't work for anyone
(10:31):
who's not maybe powerliftinglike daily or something like
that.
Yeah, anyway, there are a lotof things like that.
The keto diet there are a lotof women with PCOS who kind of
get on keto because they're like, oh, I have insulin resistance
and this is going to help me getmy blood sugar down and then
that's going to help heal myPCOS.
And I can't tell you how manywomen come to me months later
(10:52):
with damaged metabolisms, verydamaged gut health, from
following a really highsaturated fat, high like meat
diet, and then their hormonesare not any better than they
started with.
And it's really sad becausethey put so much effort into it
and I know they were trying todo the right thing.
Mikaela Schifferle (11:14):
So yeah, 100%.
Amber Fischer (11:18):
Speaking of insulin resistance one of the
questions I wanted to ask youbecause this gets into the
nuance of like intuitive eatingand binge eating that I
sometimes struggle with, I'll behonest, as a practitioner.
There are some biochemicalfactors going into a condition
(11:39):
like PCOS, where we might dealwith something called like
insulin resistance, and part ofinsulin resistance sometimes
means also developing somethingcalled leptin resistance, which
is where your hunger cues can beoff.
You have trouble feelingsatiated when you are actually
full.
Your body sends the signalslate.
(11:59):
So how does a person who'sdealing with those real hormonal
instabilities also manage torecover from a binge eating kind
of situation or to develop amore healthy relationship with
food?
What would you say to that?
Mikaela Schifferle (12:22):
100%.
So I think to start off with,it's about coming back to the
basics of looking at yournutrition, specifically with
your main meals.
Now, obviously, I would neverrecommend cutting out the carbs
completely, but, yes, when youhave that insulin resistance,
you have to be a little bit moremindful and maybe put a little
bit more thought into that.
(12:42):
So it would be really aboutfocusing on adding and making
sure that you have got thatadequate protein aspect to every
single one of your meals.
You know, really aiming foranywhere between that 30 to 40
grams of protein at your meals.
And then one thing that I findand especially if women have
come from a background ofcalorie counting or going on
restrictive diets is fats.
It's like fats are non-existentin their diet.
(13:04):
Right, it's the first thing togo when they start calorie
counting.
These are fundamental.
Like, literally, as humans, wehave fat soluble vitamins,
vitamin A, d, e and K.
Your body cannot absorb withouthaving those healthy fats in
your diet.
But also, this is going to slowdown that digestion and release
of the carbohydrates turninginto glucose.
So it's so important that youactually have these into diet.
(13:25):
So it's literally as simple asadding in your avocado, olive
oil, flax seeds, nuts seeds, allthat sort of stuff.
Salmon is amazing.
And when you think about yourplate, really looking at, okay,
how can I get micronutrients andfiber in?
So how could I fill up half ofmy plate as some fibrous
micronutrients.
So this could be like yourvegetables, it could be a salad.
(13:47):
Then focus on getting a reallydecent amount of that plate in
as your protein, obviouslyhaving a complex source of
carbohydrates.
So this is the whole grains,because that's also going to
slow down the release of thecarbohydrates.
So this could be your wholemealbread, pasta, potatoes, things
like that.
And then obviously you want aminimum of two tablespoons of
(14:09):
your healthy fats onto that aswell.
So that would be the firstthing of then actually balancing
out the macronutrients and thenutrition into your meals.
The next thing would then to bemental satisfaction Huge part.
So if you're looking at, ifyour mind starts going, okay, I
need to maybe reduce the amountof carbs I'm having with my
meals to help my blood sugars,that's totally fine.
(14:29):
But then if you sit there andyou're like I love sweet things
for breakfast but you forceyourself to have an omelet,
you're going to leave that mealfeeling so unsatisfied and
you're going to be experiencingcravings for the next like three
, four hours, however long,until you actually hit that
satisfaction level.
So it's important that you stop, you take a step back and
you're like what foods do Ireally, really love?
(14:50):
And then how can I make thiswork for me individually?
And so, if that's sweet thingscool, let's create, like some
sweet breakfast options thathave that balance for you
individually but satisfy thatmental craving.
And then, when it comes toactually treating in with your
body, and especially if you areused to binge eating or
overeating, more often than notyou have this core belief that
(15:11):
you have to finish everything infront of you.
So this is where I want tobreak this into two different
parts of.
The first part is mindfuleating and really truly stopping
and sitting down and beingmindful.
At the moment, I'm currentlyliving in Japan for the next
couple of months and theirmindful eating is to a whole
level, level Like you do not seeanybody walking and eating or
(15:32):
drinking at the same time whenthey're eating.
That's what, that's the exactthing that doing.
They're present with their meal.
It's like this is a form ofrespect for me to show up and
recognize what I'm having infront of me.
So stop recognize what you'reabout to have.
Put your knife and fork downbetween each mouthful, because
how often are we chewing and theforks like sitting in our mouth
ready to go again?
Then the next thing and thiswill probably feel so
(15:52):
uncomfortable for so many peopleto start with, but actually
leaving one bite or one tinylittle mouthful at the end of
your plate.
That does not make or breakwhether you are hungry or full.
What this does is it starts toretrain your brain into being
like oh, I don't have to finisheverything in front of me.
I actually get to be the one incomplete control, because you
have to learn what thatsatisfaction level is going to
(16:13):
look like for you.
If your hunger and fullness cuesare a little bit out of whack
at the moment, that's okay.
You can still pick up on othercues that you're like okay, I
think I'm going to sit with thisfor a little bit.
You know what?
If I'm still feeling pachy in30 minutes, I'm going to come
back and have something else.
Otherwise I might be totallyfine and I can keep going.
It's really about tuning intoyour individual body and being
able to pick up on those exactsigns and signals that comes
(16:36):
from being really, reallymindful and learning how to work
with your body, not against it.
Amber Fischer (16:40):
Yeah, I love that .
That's really a lot of thatstuff is things that I'm always
saying, because I think we getto the point with diet and
nutrition where we really startto think about what we can't
have and what we should avoidand what we should cut back on,
and really it serves us more tothink about what we need to
(17:05):
include first, because, like yousaid, if you're eating a diet
that's got that much protein,it's got that much fiber, it's
got that much healthy fats,realistically you're not going
to be that hungry outside ofthose meals.
Those meals are going to bevery filling.
Sometimes I have clients thatstruggle with that because
they're so used to eatingnothing or very little and so
(17:29):
like switching to eating a lotof fiber and a lot of fats and a
lot of protein is like whoa,this is a lot of food and that's
a mindset shift right there.
But any cravings that you'rehaving beyond that, whether it
be for sweets or whatever, likeyou said, are like mental
cravings in a lot of ways.
Sometimes I think they can bemaybe your body calling out for
(17:50):
a nutrient.
I think when people strugglewith binge eating over time they
may deal with nutrientdeficiencies that could be
contributing magnesiumdeficiencies and stuff like that
.
I think about that a lot, withchocolate cravings right, but at
the same time yeah, a lot ofit's a mental craving, and so
you have to recognize andappreciate the fact that you are
(18:14):
going to have cravings.
It's normal, it's a humanresponse to like sugar.
I mean it's delicious for a.
Really, you know, fats, sugar,like our bodies are primed to
like those things, so you'regoing to want them from time to
time and it really doesn't serveus to say like, okay, from
today on I'm never going totouch I don't know a pastry
(18:36):
again because it's bad for myPCOS, it's bad for my blood
sugar.
It's more, like you said,filling up on what you need to
include, what's good for you toinclude, and then from there
also building in space for thethings that you love or the
things you know you havecravings for.
I had a conversation with aclient just yesterday about this
, because she craves chocolate alot and I said, well, okay, you
(18:59):
know, there's two types ofchocolate, right, we've got dark
chocolate, which usually peoplewill say, okay, switched to
dark chocolate and that'll justtake it all away, and I'm like
okay, I've been there, I knowthat's not what's happening here
, because dark chocolate, yeah,I mean it might take the edge
off, but at the end of the day,like sometimes you're craving
some milk chocolate, right.
So I'm like, well, build intoyour diet daily a little bit of
(19:22):
dark chocolate so that you'reyou know you've got that that
itch is being scratched.
It's also a healthy fat, goodsource of antioxidants.
It's good for you, right.
But then on top of that also,we can leave space in you know
the amount of calories that Ihave you eating, or what have
you for you to have some likeactual chocolate that you want.
(19:44):
You know, I mean we could do itdaily, we could do it a few
times a week, like it's, it's upto you, it's whatever you feel
like your body is calling outfor, and I think that just takes
so much of the pressure off tojust say like, okay, well, it's
there and I'm going to be ableto have it when I want it, you
(20:05):
know 100% and as humans we don'tprocess negatives, like if I
literally sat here and was like,okay, do not think about a
purple spotted elephant.
Mikaela Schifferle (20:14):
And he's like, oh, purple spotted
elephant.
Like that's all I can thinkabout.
As soon as you say I can't havea pastry anymore or I can't
have chocolate from today, allyour brain is going to think
about is how do I get thatpastry, how do I eat that
chocolate?
You've literally just told us,like telling child, you cannot
go and press that big red buttonor something like I'm going to
do everything in my power topush the boundaries, to try and
press that big red button, likethis is fun and us as humans, we
(20:37):
have an inner rebellious sideof us.
So you're literally settingyourself up to want to eat that
food and then, because you'vethen classified it as I can't
have the pastry because thepastry is bad, once you do eat
the pastry because you will,because it's now forbidden food
and we love to test theboundaries you've then labeled
the food is bad, which thenmeans once you eat it, you've
now labeled yourself as a badperson.
(20:57):
And then this cues the feelingsof guilt, shame, frustration,
the why can't I have control?
I'm no good at this.
You know all of those which isjust consuming to have those
feelings as well.
So this and I think this alsogoes back to what you were
saying earlier of food is notinherently good or bad, and when
you remove those foods, youremove the food down at this
pedestal that you've put it onand apparently by stopping to
(21:20):
try and over control the food,you actually end up being in
more control anyway.
Amber Fischer (21:24):
Yeah, it's very ironic and I understand that it
doesn't seem like it's going towork when you're in it.
I totally get that, and you knowthere there's a lot of you kind
of have to do it all, thoughyou have to do it a hundred
percent, because if you I meanyou you dip your toe in the
water and and and you know ittakes time to to build new
(21:46):
habits and things like that.
But you, like you said, youhave to kind of let go of that
belief that there are inherentlygood or bad foods, because once
you you start making thatfundamental mistake of of
conflating your own self-worthwith what you're eating, then
you say, okay, this is bad, nowI'm bad.
That really just drives thewhole process even further,
(22:08):
right, and that that makes youwant some people feel that shame
and that guilt, and that thatcauses them to eat out of some
sort of like warped desire toalmost like punish themselves.
So it's, it's self-sabotaging,right and there's.
I have so much empathy, and youknow empathy and sympathy for
(22:32):
those feelings, because I knowthey're very real and they're
very painful.
By the way, I'm gonna ask youthen this is not on our list of
topics, but do you have anybooks that you really liked on
this topic?
I know one that I usuallyrecommend is when Food is Love
by Janine Roth, and my eyes werejust it's on my bookshelf over
(22:53):
there.
My eyes were just like drawn tothat.
So sometimes when that happens,I feel like I'm supposed to say
it.
Maybe somebody needs to readthat book.
But that's a great one.
Mikaela Schifferle (23:03):
I don't know if you I'm putting you on the
spot, so if you don't, knowthat's okay, you, as you said
that in your eyes, I've got myeyes looked down and it's called
Just Eat it and it's by LauraThompson, psa, and it's how
intuitive eating can help youget your shit together around
food Super, super good.
It goes through all of theaspects of like incorporating
gentle nutrition, taking backthe control, changing your
(23:23):
mindset, I believe, because ifwe really break it down and peel
back the layers for a lot ofwomen, it all stems back down
for a lot of women to body image.
Right, the reason why westarted Restrictive Diets was to
change the way our bodies look.
The reason why we cut outcertain foods is to try and
change the way our body looks,which then leads us to having an
unhealthy relationship with ourbodies and with food, and the
(23:46):
binge eating comes from that.
So it looks at like all thosedifferent aspects of it which is
really cool.
Amber Fischer (23:51):
Oh, that's neat.
Yeah, that's definitely a goodrecommendation.
I'll try to link to both ofthose in the show notes for
everyone.
But I think, to piggyback onyour point there, the really
hard thing about PCOS, I think,is that there's that element of
like the body image stuff.
For sure, because we strugglewith weight gain, we struggle
(24:12):
with weight maintenance, we haveall these other symptoms that
make us feel less than feminine,right, facial hair, some of us
deal with hair loss, some of usdeal with all that kind of stuff
, right, but then at the sametime we also have this metabolic
condition that is improved bylifestyle change Am I changing
(24:32):
the way that we eat?
And so sometimes that gets intovery tricky territory where
you're dealing with all of theseinherent body image issues but
at the same time, your diet doesneed to change some in order to
improve this chronic healthcondition that you have.
(24:53):
So you're struggling to findwhere the two can meet and where
you can still love yourself andaccept yourself and practice
mindful and intuitive eating atthe same time that you're also
making a real consciousdifference for your condition.
So do you ever work with womenwith PCOS and kind of what do
you.
How do you handle that?
Mikaela Schifferle (25:15):
Yeah, 100%.
And this is where I think itcomes back to.
I would say everyone has theirown individual binge eating
onion right, and you've got topeel back the layers that get to
the root of what is the drivingfactor for this.
And so, of course, when youhave the two that you've got to
work on, it does it feels trickyand it sometimes feels like
your mind is conflicting.
It's almost like you have adevil in an angel sitting on
(25:36):
your shoulders, going back andforth.
And this is where I always saylet's break this into two
different parts.
When you look at being thehealthiest version of yourself
and you think about thisdefinition of health, what comes
to mind for you?
And I mean like going welldeeper than just surface level,
because for a lot of women we'vegrown up in a world where
health is a size or health is aspecific look, so they might
(25:59):
have an image in your head.
But I'm like let's go deeperthan that.
Let's go deeper than that andjust keep getting to the bottom
of it.
And when I get to the root offor a lot of it, for my clients
that have PCOS, it's oh, I wantto.
I want to actually have afunctioning menstrual cycle.
I want to have stable energy,Like I don't want to have a
three to four PM energy crashanymore.
You know, I want to know how toeat to nourish my body and to
feel really good.
(26:20):
And when we get to the root ofthat, it's like great, now let's
work with that.
So then, once you actuallystart to work with your body,
it's like you're showing up withthis new form of self respect.
And when you respect your body,your body is going to respect
you back.
So it's then like you, you'restarting to become your own best
friend.
And then, on flip side of thisbecause, yes, the body image
side of this journey is stillwell and truly there this is
(26:40):
where we start to challenge corebeliefs that my clients have
had for years about their selfworth, being attached to a
number or a size.
And this is where I get myclients to start to work through
so many different types of selfcare practices.
And this is where it could beso incredibly different for
absolutely everybody.
Right, For some people, selfcare, let's say, like they're a
(27:01):
mum.
It's literally taking five to10 minutes out just for
themselves to come and have thatthat peace.
For some of my other clients.
It's more about actuallyspending time and putting nice
smelling moisturiser on theirbody and doing self acceptance
massages and meditations.
Or it's more about wearingclothes that feel good, like
(27:21):
doing a wardrobe cleaner andgetting rid of all of those
pieces of clothing that it'slike I'll keep this because one
day I might fit back into it.
It's like no, we're done withthat.
And actually showing up foryourself, with that care and
that respect and that self carewhich, for a lot of women, we
don't do enough about, Becauseso often we tear ourselves down,
braid ourselves, pick apart allthe things that we want to
(27:41):
change and be different at andwe're not good at X, Y and Z
rather than being like you knowwhat.
I'm actually pretty amazing atsome things, and that's cool.
I might not be exactly where Iwant to be and I might not love
every part of me, but I stillcan accept myself and celebrate
myself for some of the amazingthings that I'm doing, and
getting to that place as a womanis quite empowering and very,
very powerful, because it meansthen you push yourself in so
(28:03):
many other areas of your life aswell.
Amber Fischer (28:06):
I really love that.
You're very well spoken.
I'd love listening to you.
You have you really have a wayof putting things into words
that's like really profound.
So thank you, Thank you forthat.
I appreciate you sharing thatbecause I agree with you.
I think that's very, very true.
So I'm like I was gonnapiggyback on it, but there's
(28:30):
really nothing else to say.
That was like the perfectexplanation.
So I guess what I want to hearnow are if you have any specific
stories to share of people thatyou've worked with or like any
memorable kind of moments.
Or because I know people, youknow this can get very
philosophical, it can get veryin the like, weeds of like okay,
(28:53):
well, wouldn't this be perfectif life really worked like that.
But tell us a little bit aboutsome people maybe that you know
in real life that have actuallymade these changes.
Mikaela Schifferle (29:06):
Yeah, it's interesting.
You asked this because I wasliterally chatting with one of
my clients the other day.
She has recently just finishedwith our time together, which is
always so bittersweet when youcan't finish up because you're
like I call it gradually.
So there's no such a connectionto it.
I know You're like I'm so happyfor you that you've got to this
place, but like I don't want toleave, leave our weekly chats
and whatnot.
So we're talking because whenshe first started, you know her
(29:26):
mind was very much like okay, Ineed to stop binge eating
because I need to lose weight.
Like I hate the way my bodylooks.
This is awful.
I'm consumed with food thoughts24 seven.
I'm always thinking about mybody.
I don't wear clothes like Iwear baggy clothes everywhere
because I don't like my body.
You know I cover up at the gym.
I don't feel like I can beintimate with my partner like it
was just, it was all consumingher every aspect of life.
(29:48):
As soon as she was by herself,she would binge eat, secret, eat
all this sort of stuff.
And we're talking the other dayhow, throughout the journey,
like every step, she's like Idon't even think about weight
loss.
You know I have a completelydifferent mindset and outlook on
how I show up and how I treatmy body and she ended up losing
a little bit of weight, but itwas complete byproduct because
(30:09):
her habits had actually changedRight, and she was like I've now
gotten to this place where Ihave complete control over food,
no matter what careful lifethrows my way.
If I've had a shitty day atwork or whatnot, I have control.
Like I have so many otheroutlets that I use that have
nothing to do with food.
Her relationship with herpartner has like 10 fold
improved.
She goes to the gym in likewhatever she wants to wear that
(30:32):
day, whether it's sports croptop and tights or you know, it's
true, but she doesn't cover upanymore.
She actually goes out inclothes that make her feel like
she steps into her power.
She's like I feel confidentwearing this and it was just so
amazing to see this shiftbecause when she started, it was
I need to look this way to fitinto society, and now she's like
no, I am me, no one else, andthat's actually my power, and
(30:56):
she literally has just becomethe healthiest version of
herself and the ripple effectthat she has noticed it into her
relationships, her friendships,her career, because her
self-confidence has improved,her self-trust has improved, is
amazing, like it's so inspiringto see, and this is why I think
this journey is my pride andpassion, because, yes, this
(31:18):
journey has like a wholenutrition aspect to it and
obviously I'm a qualifiednutritionist, but I've done
extra training and studyingpsychology, because there's a
psychological aspect of thisjourney and when you pair both
of them together it's like youalmost become unstoppable.
And I know that when a lot ofwomen sat in she was in this
place as well.
She was like I have tried somany things.
She was so hesitant.
She was like I just I don'tknow if this is going to work,
because I've tried 50 otherthings and I always end up
(31:41):
exactly back where I started.
Right it's, I'm good for acouple of weeks.
Something happens.
Binge it, I'm back where Istarted.
Try something new, good for amonth.
Something happens.
Fall back.
Like it's that cycle that'sexhausting.
So I actually feel free, like aweight has been lifted off my
shoulders, and when we'retalking, it's like bringing me
to tears, because I think for alot of women they're like I
don't see how this can bepossible.
(32:01):
I don't actually see how I canhave food freedom and that
control, because this is howI've been like this for years.
And that's where I want tochange the story for so many
women that you actually can't.
You can get to that place where, yeah, you have to think about
food a little bit because weneed it to live.
But it's not this all consumingobsession anymore.
There's no binging, there's nowanting to jump on the newest
(32:23):
restrictive diet trend that'sout there.
It's actually just you respectyour body, you accept your body,
you have control and you liveyour life Like.
You have energy to go onholidays, to spend time with
your friends and family, to notgo out for dinner and be
restricting all day.
Sit at the dinner at therestaurant table, having already
looked at the menu and knowingexactly what you want to have,
(32:45):
and then counting down theminutes until the waiter comes
over.
You order your food and you'recounting down the minutes until
your food gets there.
You go home, you eat morebecause you felt so guilty.
You actually haven't beenpresent at all or spent that
quality time or created corememories with anyone there.
It's like we get to change thatand I always say to some of my
clients this is it, this is ourone shot at life.
We don't get to come back.
We don't get a take two of this.
(33:06):
So you actually want to makesure that you are that
healthiest, most confident, thatbest version of yourself that
you actually get to be.
Amber Fischer (33:14):
Yeah, I love that .
It's a very similar approach tolooking at the root cause.
So my approach to PCOS is allabout looking at the root causes
of PCOS and managing those sothat there's a cascade, a ripple
effect to the actual symptoms.
We don't address the symptoms.
We address where the symptomscome from.
(33:35):
And in your work it's sosimilar because so many of the
symptoms come from that root ofthose basic issues with body
image and just self-acceptance.
So it's really cool to see how,when that changes, everything
else changes as well.
It's fascinating.
Mikaela Schifferle (33:55):
Well, that's how you create sustainable
results.
If you just address thesymptoms, it's just like
slapping a band-aid over the topof it and it's like, oh yeah,
you feel okay, so then it's justgoing to come back.
And that is literally.
My ultimate goal of everysingle one of my clients is this
is it.
I want to put an end to thisfor you so you can actually live
your life, and that's what Isaw when I was working at Weight
(34:15):
Watchers is women had been onand off Weight Watchers since
they were 15.
And now they're in their 60s.
That's their whole life.
It's like no, there has to be adifferent way.
I know.
Amber Fischer (34:24):
That's what I tell people too.
I'm like I want this to be thelast time that you ever do
anything, that you ever have toput this much effort or thought
into your food, like ever again.
You know, because it's justit's.
I mean, it is a vicious cycleand the research plays out that
that cycle is going to go againand again and again unless you
(34:45):
really deal with the deeperreasons behind why you're
falling into those patterns.
Yeah, absolutely so.
If anyone's listening right nowand they want like a practical
tip, maybe something that theycan follow today to start
(35:05):
working on some of this on theirown, is there anything that you
would tell them to do oranything that you would
recommend?
Mikaela Schifferle (35:13):
So the first thing I would say is start to
develop awareness around yourpatterns, around your behaviors.
What, the why, the how, thewhen does it happen?
So actually recognize?
Do you have individual triggersthat play out?
Is it an emotion, is it stress,is it sadness, is it loneliness
, is it boredom?
What is it?
Specific food?
I want you to really take amoment to sit down and be like
(35:35):
do I have any restrictions thatare playing out?
You know, do I tell myself thatI can only have certain
portions of food, or I can'thave some foods?
If you're somebody who says, ohno, I can't have that in the
house, otherwise I'll eat theentire thing?
It's kind of like out of sight,out of mind type of thing.
That's a restriction, you know.
So start to just to get, getthat self awareness around all
of it, because then what you cando from there is you can then
start to pick and choose whichones you want to really slowly
(35:58):
start to work through, start tochallenge.
For an example, if you've toldyourself I can't keep chocolate
in the house because out ofsight, out of mind, then that
could be a great one to startwith, whereas, go out, buy five
blocks of chocolate called thefive block, like the five
chocolate block challenge, andhave them there, allow yourself
to have some every single day,guaranteed to start with.
Yes, you're going to eat alittle bit more than maybe what
you're wanting to, but you'reremoving that novelty.
(36:21):
It's always like I said myclients, if you would imagine a
cow in a field and the big fieldwas full of green, luscious
grass, and then in the middle ofthe field it was a little
fenced off area and that's wherethe cow was.
But the cow was, you know,shitting where it was eating.
The grass was dead.
It was just disgusting.
As soon as those gates openedand the cow can finally get out
into the green, luscious, widefield, it's absolutely going to
(36:43):
go to town.
It's like, oh my God, I have toeat as much as I can right now,
because what if I get lockedback up into that little mini
ugly?
We don't want to be there.
So, same as when you firstintroduce these fruits back in,
your mind's going to be like, oh, let's, let's, let's eat as
much as we can, just in case werestricted again.
But as your mind starts tolearn and trust that, oh my God,
we've got five blocks there.
We're all good.
(37:03):
You know we can have it everyday if we really truly want.
And I was like, oh, I can relax, and then you start to notice
that you start to forget aboutthe chocolate being there.
You only eat it.
You know, when it crosses yourmind you have like two squares
one day, four squares the nextday, like it.
Just you go with the flow rightand it all levels out.
So you but little bit, bylittle bit, a little bit becomes
a lot.
So start to challenge very,very slowly.
But then I would say the thirdthing on top of that is reach
(37:25):
out for help.
No one has to go through thisjourney alone.
It is so mentally consuming,really, and there's going to be
challenging.
You get bits, you're going tohit roadblocks, speed bumps.
It's okay.
It's okay if you're on ajourney, but if you have
somebody there helping you everystep of the way, you obviously
get there a lot more effectively.
Amber Fischer (37:41):
Yeah, you get definitely that's true of so
many different things withhealth.
If you have a guide to help youthrough it and an objective
outside opinion, it really doeshelp confront sort of your
internal biases and the placeswhere you're maybe like skirting
around different things.
(38:02):
And, yeah, it's, it's important.
So, if it's possible for you,definitely work with someone
Speaking of that.
If people are listening to youand they're kind of resonating
with your message or yourapproach, where can they find
you?
You know what, what, where?
How should they reach out toyou?
Tell us.
(38:22):
I know you have a podcastbecause I've been on it.
Shout out to my episodeFavorite.
Yeah, tell us about that.
Mikaela Schifferle (38:30):
Yeah, so you can have it head over to my
Instagram, which is KJ Wellness,with three S's.
I'm always in my DMs.
I share so much content overthere.
I do have my own podcast.
If you have enjoyed listeningto my voice, then that is called
Naked Wellness, where I havelots of guests on.
It's just all about the raw,naked truth about health and
healing your relationship withfood, which is awesome, but they
(38:51):
would be probably the two mainplaces to go to.
Otherwise, if you can also headstraight over to my website,
which has more information aboutmy own story and all of that,
which is literally justKJWheelnesscomau.
Amber Fischer (39:02):
Cool, and we will link to all of that in the show
notes.
You guys can check it out ifyou want to learn more.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here, mikayla.
This was a really good episode.
I really enjoyed talking withyou.
Mikaela Schifferle (39:14):
Thank you so much for having me.
Amber Fischer (39:15):
All right, anything else you want to add
before we go?
I should ask you that before.
No, okay, all right, talk toyou guys later.
Bye.
Welcome back to an Amber a day, the functional
nutrition podcast.
I'm your host, amber Fisher,and today I've got a very
special guest.
This is Michaela shiffer Lee ofKJ wellness, and Michaela
specializes in food freedom andrecovery from binge eating.
She's a really interesting andunique perspective and message,
so I'm really excited to talk toher because I know this is
(00:21):
something that a lot of my PCOSClients and listeners have dealt
with.
It's very common in ourcommunity, so Let me introduce
you, michaela.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself Amazing.
Mikaela Schifferle (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me here.
I'm so excited to chat aboutthis topic because, you're right
, there are so many people thatdo experience this.
So a little bit about me.
I run KJ wellness, which is mybusiness, which helps young
women to stop binge eating, healtheir relationship with food
and, honestly, it is my pride ofpassion.
I personally have been throughmy own journey with having a
(00:58):
terrible relationship with food,a terrible relationship with my
body and Binge eating, and socoming out the other side of
that, where now I do havecomplete control, I was like
this this needs to be somethingthat every single woman
experiences, right?
Because that freedom that youhave is just so incredibly
powerful and I mean I candefinitely Dive into what that
(01:18):
journey is if that's somethingthat yeah, yeah, I would love to
hear that.
Amber Fischer (01:22):
Tell us a little bit more about that.
Mikaela Schifferle (01:24):
Cool.
So, going right back to thebeginning, when I was in high
school, I got really, reallysick with a parasite and I lost
a lot of weight very quickly andit was obviously very unhealthy
because everything I ate cameback back up or out One end or
the other, and so obviously nota healthy way of losing weight.
But I was at that ripe age oflike 15 16, and so I started
(01:47):
getting compliments oh my god,you look amazing.
How are you losing all theweight?
That's great.
And so in my head I started tobe like, oh my god, when I look
a certain way, I'm now moreaccepted.
I get compliments right frompeople.
So this then started to teachmy brain that the smaller I am,
the more accepted by mycommunity and society I'm gonna
be.
So once.
(02:08):
I obviously had to get betterfrom being so incredibly unwell.
The weight gain started to comeback on, which it needed to,
because I was obviously nowunderway, because I'd been so
sick.
But as that weight gain came on, it's borrowed these unhealthy
thoughts of oh my goodness, whatif people no longer accept me
anymore.
So that's when I started toenter the world of Dieting
restrictive eating, like youname it.
(02:29):
I probably have tried.
I tried everything under the Sunto maintain this really
unsustainable weight for my body, and it's borrowed into having
a really unhealthy relationshipwith food.
I was thinking about food 24 7.
I was exhausted, I lost myperiod, I would have binge
eating episodes.
It just it was consuming everywaking thought of every day.
(02:50):
I was scared to go out andsocialize and eat out with
friends like it was really,really consuming, and so I
Started stunning eventmanagement, actually, but I was
like this is way too stressful.
So I was like I'm reallyinterested in health and fitness
why I said stunning nutrition?
And that was a reallyinteresting journey in itself,
because you learn so muchinformation as a nutritionist
(03:13):
and a dietitian that then youbecome almost obsessed with
everything being healthy.
It's like I can't have x, y,zed and pop things in different
food groups and all like it'sjust, it's a lot.
So, coming out of that, I thenactually worked in Weight
Watchers for four years and thisis when I actually started to
go through my own journey ofhealing my relationship with
food, because I got to thispoint when I was like I actually
(03:35):
can't live my life like this.
I am mentally and emotionallyexhausted and physically
exhausted and I'm missing out onactually living my life.
And so, through Weight Watcherswhich was very eye-opening what
I say in the world that theselarge weight loss companies,
they, they pry on women'sinsecurities and vulnerabilities
and they make us feel likeabsolute Crap and that our
(03:59):
self-worth is only dictated bynumber and a.
Being an employee there, youalso have to weigh in, you also
have to maintain a particularweight, and so you know I was
trying to go through thisjourney of healing my
relationship with food andthey're there.
Like you need to hop on thescales and if that number had
gone up or down there, like weneed an action plan Of how
you're gonna get that back tothe right, point right.
Like you had yet no idea.
Amber Fischer (04:21):
That's some tea, mikaela, I know.
Mikaela Schifferle (04:25):
And so I was like that this is, this is
messed up.
And the turning point for mewas when I had a it's 70 she was
maybe like 65 to 70, I can'tremember exactly her age and
she'd come in and she hadfluctuated on the scale a couple
of hundred grams and she stoodthere and she just broke down in
tears and she was going on aholiday with her husband to
Europe and she was like, oh, mygoodness, you know, the scales
(04:47):
have gone up a little bit.
I don't want to go there, Idon't want to eat the pizza in
the past.
Like what if I come back andI've gained all this weight?
And her husband had actuallysaid to her I will not sacrifice
this holiday for your weightloss goals, you know, I want to
go there and enjoy all of thesefoods.
And she was so petrified.
It was literally impacting herrelationship and her holiday and
I was like that this is sowrong.
You know you need to be able tolive your life and that's when
(05:09):
Leisure.
I'm pretty sure I went home andresigned that day and that's
where then I started my business, kj wellness, where I was like
I need to help women get to thispoint that I had now actually
got to as well, where I hadcomplete control of food I had
I'd like on against weight,which is let's weigh in, I was
like, absolutely not like.
That's not myself work.
You know, it doesn't reallymatter.
At the end of the day, I'mhealthy and I know I'm healthy
(05:30):
and that's where I've now beenable to help over 270 plus women
to Stop the binge eating, healtheir relationship with food,
have that confidence in theirbody, not attach their
self-worth to a number or On thescales or a number on a piece
of clothing as well, andhonestly like it is my pride and
passion and I am so againstrestrictive diets.
They are like out the window.
(05:51):
We're not here for them.
Amber Fischer (05:52):
That's really, really fascinating.
I think it it Resolidifies forme how often I hear this very
similar theme from practitionersthat what inspired them to get
into their work in the firstplace was their own struggle
with that particular issue.
And I do have this little pettheory that I think some of us,
who are meant to kind of behelpful and be healers and you
(06:15):
know, in our lives we're almostgifted these experiences so that
we can have true, profoundempathy, because you know, if
you hadn't gone through that, Iwonder what your perspective
would be.
Because, like you said, whenyou become a Nutritionist or
dietitian you go through all ofthat schooling.
I find that people can go one oftwo ways.
(06:36):
It's either they they get evenmore, like you said, restrictive
.
They it's like you know toomuch, and so you end up over
obsessing about every littledetail, stuff that the average
person wouldn't even, itwouldn't even be on their radar.
Or you can go in the completeopposite direction and just be
like you know what I know, andthis is kind of how I am.
(06:57):
Every food, literally everyfood, could be positive or
negative for a person, dependingon their environmental context,
their underlying health, theirhistory, like so many factors go
into it right.
So it almost doesn't make senseto have any foods and good or
(07:17):
bad categories, because really,at the end of the day, all foods
are nuanced Like there's a lotof gray area in nutrition, you
know.
So that's really interesting.
Also, what you said aboutWeight Watchers, I had no idea
they made people weigh in,that's crazy.
Wow, honestly, yeah, that's soinsane we do have to live and
pray there.
Mikaela Schifferle (07:37):
The interesting thing is that a lot
of the coaches that they havethey are women who have gone
through the weight loss journeyand have lost weight themselves
on that journey, right?
So then one of the things thatI had a problem was they get
then get up and they preachexactly what they had done.
But the thing is everyone's soindividualized and what works
(07:58):
for them might not work for thenext person, so then people are
trying these things that thendoesn't actually work with their
lifestyle or their body, sothen they end up bingeing or
they end up having a reallyterrible relationship with food,
and it's only fueling this fireof having an unhealthy
relationship with themselves andfood.
Amber Fischer (08:14):
Absolutely.
I think that comes into playfor PCOS a lot, because there
are a lot of content creators inthat, in this niche, that are
also like lifestyle creators,who are people, women with PCOS,
who have had some sort ofsuccess story through their own
(08:36):
methods, and then they make thatfundamental mistake of
believing that, because they didit a certain way and it worked
for them, that this is the waythat it should be done for
everybody.
And then when people arehurting and confused and don't
have answers, they reallygravitate to people who seem
like they have all the answers.
(08:57):
But really what one person'sexperience, like you said, is, I
mean it might work for you butrealistically, like the chances
of the exact process that oneperson used to work on their
hormones or weight loss in thisexample, it may or may not
(09:19):
actually be the right thing foryou or make any difference
whatsoever.
I've even seen people go thecomplete opposite of what
they're trying to do byfollowing certain things.
Like an example that I like togive is I know this person who
has done the carnivore diet fora while and, to be fair, I mean
(09:47):
she looks amazing, she's verystrong, she does a lot of
weightlifting, powerliftingstuff and she's convinced this
is the thing, this is the answerand at least for the mean, like
for now, it seems like it'sworking really well for her.
(10:08):
But I really shudder when Ithink about, like, other women
with PCOS trying something likethat because, you know, number
one I just don't think thatthat's a healthy, sustainable
way of eating at all.
But number two, like, even ifit was, like it's just really so
ridiculously restrictive and itreally wouldn't work for anyone
(10:31):
who's not maybe powerliftinglike daily or something like
that.
Yeah, anyway, there are a lotof things like that.
The keto diet there are a lotof women with PCOS who kind of
get on keto because they're like, oh, I have insulin resistance
and this is going to help me getmy blood sugar down and then
that's going to help heal myPCOS.
And I can't tell you how manywomen come to me months later
(10:52):
with damaged metabolisms, verydamaged gut health, from
following a really highsaturated fat, high like meat
diet, and then their hormonesare not any better than they
started with.
And it's really sad becausethey put so much effort into it
and I know they were trying todo the right thing.
Mikaela Schifferle (11:14):
So yeah, 100%.
Amber Fischer (11:18):
Speaking of insulin resistance one of the
questions I wanted to ask youbecause this gets into the
nuance of like intuitive eatingand binge eating that I
sometimes struggle with, I'll behonest, as a practitioner.
There are some biochemicalfactors going into a condition
(11:39):
like PCOS, where we might dealwith something called like
insulin resistance, and part ofinsulin resistance sometimes
means also developing somethingcalled leptin resistance, which
is where your hunger cues can beoff.
You have trouble feelingsatiated when you are actually
full.
Your body sends the signalslate.
(11:59):
So how does a person who'sdealing with those real hormonal
instabilities also manage torecover from a binge eating kind
of situation or to develop amore healthy relationship with
food?
What would you say to that?
Mikaela Schifferle (12:22):
100%.
So I think to start off with,it's about coming back to the
basics of looking at yournutrition, specifically with
your main meals.
Now, obviously, I would neverrecommend cutting out the carbs
completely, but, yes, when youhave that insulin resistance,
you have to be a little bit moremindful and maybe put a little
bit more thought into that.
(12:42):
So it would be really aboutfocusing on adding and making
sure that you have got thatadequate protein aspect to every
single one of your meals.
You know, really aiming foranywhere between that 30 to 40
grams of protein at your meals.
And then one thing that I findand especially if women have
come from a background ofcalorie counting or going on
restrictive diets is fats.
It's like fats are non-existentin their diet.
(13:04):
Right, it's the first thing togo when they start calorie
counting.
These are fundamental.
Like, literally, as humans, wehave fat soluble vitamins,
vitamin A, d, e and K.
Your body cannot absorb withouthaving those healthy fats in
your diet.
But also, this is going to slowdown that digestion and release
of the carbohydrates turninginto glucose.
So it's so important that youactually have these into diet.
(13:25):
So it's literally as simple asadding in your avocado, olive
oil, flax seeds, nuts seeds, allthat sort of stuff.
Salmon is amazing.
And when you think about yourplate, really looking at, okay,
how can I get micronutrients andfiber in?
So how could I fill up half ofmy plate as some fibrous
micronutrients.
So this could be like yourvegetables, it could be a salad.
(13:47):
Then focus on getting a reallydecent amount of that plate in
as your protein, obviouslyhaving a complex source of
carbohydrates.
So this is the whole grains,because that's also going to
slow down the release of thecarbohydrates.
So this could be your wholemealbread, pasta, potatoes, things
like that.
And then obviously you want aminimum of two tablespoons of
(14:09):
your healthy fats onto that aswell.
So that would be the firstthing of then actually balancing
out the macronutrients and thenutrition into your meals.
The next thing would then to bemental satisfaction Huge part.
So if you're looking at, ifyour mind starts going, okay, I
need to maybe reduce the amountof carbs I'm having with my
meals to help my blood sugars,that's totally fine.
(14:29):
But then if you sit there andyou're like I love sweet things
for breakfast but you forceyourself to have an omelet,
you're going to leave that mealfeeling so unsatisfied and
you're going to be experiencingcravings for the next like three
, four hours, however long,until you actually hit that
satisfaction level.
So it's important that you stop, you take a step back and
you're like what foods do Ireally, really love?
(14:50):
And then how can I make thiswork for me individually?
And so, if that's sweet thingscool, let's create, like some
sweet breakfast options thathave that balance for you
individually but satisfy thatmental craving.
And then, when it comes toactually treating in with your
body, and especially if you areused to binge eating or
overeating, more often than notyou have this core belief that
(15:11):
you have to finish everything infront of you.
So this is where I want tobreak this into two different
parts of.
The first part is mindfuleating and really truly stopping
and sitting down and beingmindful.
At the moment, I'm currentlyliving in Japan for the next
couple of months and theirmindful eating is to a whole
level, level Like you do not seeanybody walking and eating or
(15:32):
drinking at the same time whenthey're eating.
That's what, that's the exactthing that doing.
They're present with their meal.
It's like this is a form ofrespect for me to show up and
recognize what I'm having infront of me.
So stop recognize what you'reabout to have.
Put your knife and fork downbetween each mouthful, because
how often are we chewing and theforks like sitting in our mouth
ready to go again?
Then the next thing and thiswill probably feel so
(15:52):
uncomfortable for so many peopleto start with, but actually
leaving one bite or one tinylittle mouthful at the end of
your plate.
That does not make or breakwhether you are hungry or full.
What this does is it starts toretrain your brain into being
like oh, I don't have to finisheverything in front of me.
I actually get to be the one incomplete control, because you
have to learn what thatsatisfaction level is going to
(16:13):
look like for you.
If your hunger and fullness cuesare a little bit out of whack
at the moment, that's okay.
You can still pick up on othercues that you're like okay, I
think I'm going to sit with thisfor a little bit.
You know what?
If I'm still feeling pachy in30 minutes, I'm going to come
back and have something else.
Otherwise I might be totallyfine and I can keep going.
It's really about tuning intoyour individual body and being
able to pick up on those exactsigns and signals that comes
(16:36):
from being really, reallymindful and learning how to work
with your body, not against it.
Amber Fischer (16:40):
Yeah, I love that .
That's really a lot of thatstuff is things that I'm always
saying, because I think we getto the point with diet and
nutrition where we really startto think about what we can't
have and what we should avoidand what we should cut back on,
and really it serves us more tothink about what we need to
(17:05):
include first, because, like yousaid, if you're eating a diet
that's got that much protein,it's got that much fiber, it's
got that much healthy fats,realistically you're not going
to be that hungry outside ofthose meals.
Those meals are going to bevery filling.
Sometimes I have clients thatstruggle with that because
they're so used to eatingnothing or very little and so
(17:29):
like switching to eating a lotof fiber and a lot of fats and a
lot of protein is like whoa,this is a lot of food and that's
a mindset shift right there.
But any cravings that you'rehaving beyond that, whether it
be for sweets or whatever, likeyou said, are like mental
cravings in a lot of ways.
Sometimes I think they can bemaybe your body calling out for
(17:50):
a nutrient.
I think when people strugglewith binge eating over time they
may deal with nutrientdeficiencies that could be
contributing magnesiumdeficiencies and stuff like that
.
I think about that a lot, withchocolate cravings right, but at
the same time yeah, a lot ofit's a mental craving, and so
you have to recognize andappreciate the fact that you are
(18:14):
going to have cravings.
It's normal, it's a humanresponse to like sugar.
I mean it's delicious for a.
Really, you know, fats, sugar,like our bodies are primed to
like those things, so you'regoing to want them from time to
time and it really doesn't serveus to say like, okay, from
today on I'm never going totouch I don't know a pastry
(18:36):
again because it's bad for myPCOS, it's bad for my blood
sugar.
It's more, like you said,filling up on what you need to
include, what's good for you toinclude, and then from there
also building in space for thethings that you love or the
things you know you havecravings for.
I had a conversation with aclient just yesterday about this
, because she craves chocolate alot and I said, well, okay, you
(18:59):
know, there's two types ofchocolate, right, we've got dark
chocolate, which usually peoplewill say, okay, switched to
dark chocolate and that'll justtake it all away, and I'm like
okay, I've been there, I knowthat's not what's happening here
, because dark chocolate, yeah,I mean it might take the edge
off, but at the end of the day,like sometimes you're craving
some milk chocolate, right.
So I'm like, well, build intoyour diet daily a little bit of
(19:22):
dark chocolate so that you'reyou know you've got that that
itch is being scratched.
It's also a healthy fat, goodsource of antioxidants.
It's good for you, right.
But then on top of that also,we can leave space in you know
the amount of calories that Ihave you eating, or what have
you for you to have some likeactual chocolate that you want.
(19:44):
You know, I mean we could do itdaily, we could do it a few
times a week, like it's, it's upto you, it's whatever you feel
like your body is calling outfor, and I think that just takes
so much of the pressure off tojust say like, okay, well, it's
there and I'm going to be ableto have it when I want it, you
(20:05):
know 100% and as humans we don'tprocess negatives, like if I
literally sat here and was like,okay, do not think about a
purple spotted elephant.
Mikaela Schifferle (20:14):
And he's like, oh, purple spotted
elephant.
Like that's all I can thinkabout.
As soon as you say I can't havea pastry anymore or I can't
have chocolate from today, allyour brain is going to think
about is how do I get thatpastry, how do I eat that
chocolate?
You've literally just told us,like telling child, you cannot
go and press that big red buttonor something like I'm going to
do everything in my power topush the boundaries, to try and
press that big red button, likethis is fun and us as humans, we
(20:37):
have an inner rebellious sideof us.
So you're literally settingyourself up to want to eat that
food and then, because you'vethen classified it as I can't
have the pastry because thepastry is bad, once you do eat
the pastry because you will,because it's now forbidden food
and we love to test theboundaries you've then labeled
the food is bad, which thenmeans once you eat it, you've
now labeled yourself as a badperson.
(20:57):
And then this cues the feelingsof guilt, shame, frustration,
the why can't I have control?
I'm no good at this.
You know all of those which isjust consuming to have those
feelings as well.
So this and I think this alsogoes back to what you were
saying earlier of food is notinherently good or bad, and when
you remove those foods, youremove the food down at this
pedestal that you've put it onand apparently by stopping to
(21:20):
try and over control the food,you actually end up being in
more control anyway.
Amber Fischer (21:24):
Yeah, it's very ironic and I understand that it
doesn't seem like it's going towork when you're in it.
I totally get that, and you knowthere there's a lot of you kind
of have to do it all, thoughyou have to do it a hundred
percent, because if you I meanyou you dip your toe in the
water and and and you know ittakes time to to build new
(21:46):
habits and things like that.
But you, like you said, youhave to kind of let go of that
belief that there are inherentlygood or bad foods, because once
you you start making thatfundamental mistake of of
conflating your own self-worthwith what you're eating, then
you say, okay, this is bad, nowI'm bad.
That really just drives thewhole process even further,
(22:08):
right, and that that makes youwant some people feel that shame
and that guilt, and that thatcauses them to eat out of some
sort of like warped desire toalmost like punish themselves.
So it's, it's self-sabotaging,right and there's.
I have so much empathy, and youknow empathy and sympathy for
(22:32):
those feelings, because I knowthey're very real and they're
very painful.
By the way, I'm gonna ask youthen this is not on our list of
topics, but do you have anybooks that you really liked on
this topic?
I know one that I usuallyrecommend is when Food is Love
by Janine Roth, and my eyes werejust it's on my bookshelf over
(22:53):
there.
My eyes were just like drawn tothat.
So sometimes when that happens,I feel like I'm supposed to say
it.
Maybe somebody needs to readthat book.
But that's a great one.
Mikaela Schifferle (23:03):
I don't know if you I'm putting you on the
spot, so if you don't, knowthat's okay, you, as you said
that in your eyes, I've got myeyes looked down and it's called
Just Eat it and it's by LauraThompson, psa, and it's how
intuitive eating can help youget your shit together around
food Super, super good.
It goes through all of theaspects of like incorporating
gentle nutrition, taking backthe control, changing your
(23:23):
mindset, I believe, because ifwe really break it down and peel
back the layers for a lot ofwomen, it all stems back down
for a lot of women to body image.
Right, the reason why westarted Restrictive Diets was to
change the way our bodies look.
The reason why we cut outcertain foods is to try and
change the way our body looks,which then leads us to having an
unhealthy relationship with ourbodies and with food, and the
(23:46):
binge eating comes from that.
So it looks at like all thosedifferent aspects of it which is
really cool.
Amber Fischer (23:51):
Oh, that's neat.
Yeah, that's definitely a goodrecommendation.
I'll try to link to both ofthose in the show notes for
everyone.
But I think, to piggyback onyour point there, the really
hard thing about PCOS, I think,is that there's that element of
like the body image stuff.
For sure, because we strugglewith weight gain, we struggle
(24:12):
with weight maintenance, we haveall these other symptoms that
make us feel less than feminine,right, facial hair, some of us
deal with hair loss, some of usdeal with all that kind of stuff
, right, but then at the sametime we also have this metabolic
condition that is improved bylifestyle change Am I changing
(24:32):
the way that we eat?
And so sometimes that gets intovery tricky territory where
you're dealing with all of theseinherent body image issues but
at the same time, your diet doesneed to change some in order to
improve this chronic healthcondition that you have.
(24:53):
So you're struggling to findwhere the two can meet and where
you can still love yourself andaccept yourself and practice
mindful and intuitive eating atthe same time that you're also
making a real consciousdifference for your condition.
So do you ever work with womenwith PCOS and kind of what do
you.
How do you handle that?
Mikaela Schifferle (25:15):
Yeah, 100%.
And this is where I think itcomes back to.
I would say everyone has theirown individual binge eating
onion right, and you've got topeel back the layers that get to
the root of what is the drivingfactor for this.
And so, of course, when youhave the two that you've got to
work on, it does it feels trickyand it sometimes feels like
your mind is conflicting.
It's almost like you have adevil in an angel sitting on
(25:36):
your shoulders, going back andforth.
And this is where I always saylet's break this into two
different parts.
When you look at being thehealthiest version of yourself
and you think about thisdefinition of health, what comes
to mind for you?
And I mean like going welldeeper than just surface level,
because for a lot of women we'vegrown up in a world where
health is a size or health is aspecific look, so they might
(25:59):
have an image in your head.
But I'm like let's go deeperthan that.
Let's go deeper than that andjust keep getting to the bottom
of it.
And when I get to the root offor a lot of it, for my clients
that have PCOS, it's oh, I wantto.
I want to actually have afunctioning menstrual cycle.
I want to have stable energy,Like I don't want to have a
three to four PM energy crashanymore.
You know, I want to know how toeat to nourish my body and to
feel really good.
(26:20):
And when we get to the root ofthat, it's like great, now let's
work with that.
So then, once you actuallystart to work with your body,
it's like you're showing up withthis new form of self respect.
And when you respect your body,your body is going to respect
you back.
So it's then like you, you'restarting to become your own best
friend.
And then, on flip side of thisbecause, yes, the body image
side of this journey is stillwell and truly there this is
(26:40):
where we start to challenge corebeliefs that my clients have
had for years about their selfworth, being attached to a
number or a size.
And this is where I get myclients to start to work through
so many different types of selfcare practices.
And this is where it could beso incredibly different for
absolutely everybody.
Right, For some people, selfcare, let's say, like they're a
(27:01):
mum.
It's literally taking five to10 minutes out just for
themselves to come and have thatthat peace.
For some of my other clients.
It's more about actuallyspending time and putting nice
smelling moisturiser on theirbody and doing self acceptance
massages and meditations.
Or it's more about wearingclothes that feel good, like
(27:21):
doing a wardrobe cleaner andgetting rid of all of those
pieces of clothing that it'slike I'll keep this because one
day I might fit back into it.
It's like no, we're done withthat.
And actually showing up foryourself, with that care and
that respect and that self carewhich, for a lot of women, we
don't do enough about, Becauseso often we tear ourselves down,
braid ourselves, pick apart allthe things that we want to
(27:41):
change and be different at andwe're not good at X, Y and Z
rather than being like you knowwhat.
I'm actually pretty amazing atsome things, and that's cool.
I might not be exactly where Iwant to be and I might not love
every part of me, but I stillcan accept myself and celebrate
myself for some of the amazingthings that I'm doing, and
getting to that place as a womanis quite empowering and very,
very powerful, because it meansthen you push yourself in so
(28:03):
many other areas of your life aswell.
Amber Fischer (28:06):
I really love that.
You're very well spoken.
I'd love listening to you.
You have you really have a wayof putting things into words
that's like really profound.
So thank you, Thank you forthat.
I appreciate you sharing thatbecause I agree with you.
I think that's very, very true.
So I'm like I was gonnapiggyback on it, but there's
(28:30):
really nothing else to say.
That was like the perfectexplanation.
So I guess what I want to hearnow are if you have any specific
stories to share of people thatyou've worked with or like any
memorable kind of moments.
Or because I know people, youknow this can get very
philosophical, it can get veryin the like, weeds of like okay,
(28:53):
well, wouldn't this be perfectif life really worked like that.
But tell us a little bit aboutsome people maybe that you know
in real life that have actuallymade these changes.
Mikaela Schifferle (29:06):
Yeah, it's interesting.
You asked this because I wasliterally chatting with one of
my clients the other day.
She has recently just finishedwith our time together, which is
always so bittersweet when youcan't finish up because you're
like I call it gradually.
So there's no such a connectionto it.
I know You're like I'm so happyfor you that you've got to this
place, but like I don't want toleave, leave our weekly chats
and whatnot.
So we're talking because whenshe first started, you know her
(29:26):
mind was very much like okay, Ineed to stop binge eating
because I need to lose weight.
Like I hate the way my bodylooks.
This is awful.
I'm consumed with food thoughts24 seven.
I'm always thinking about mybody.
I don't wear clothes like Iwear baggy clothes everywhere
because I don't like my body.
You know I cover up at the gym.
I don't feel like I can beintimate with my partner like it
was just, it was all consumingher every aspect of life.
(29:48):
As soon as she was by herself,she would binge eat, secret, eat
all this sort of stuff.
And we're talking the other dayhow, throughout the journey,
like every step, she's like Idon't even think about weight
loss.
You know I have a completelydifferent mindset and outlook on
how I show up and how I treatmy body and she ended up losing
a little bit of weight, but itwas complete byproduct because
(30:09):
her habits had actually changedRight, and she was like I've now
gotten to this place where Ihave complete control over food,
no matter what careful lifethrows my way.
If I've had a shitty day atwork or whatnot, I have control.
Like I have so many otheroutlets that I use that have
nothing to do with food.
Her relationship with herpartner has like 10 fold
improved.
She goes to the gym in likewhatever she wants to wear that
(30:32):
day, whether it's sports croptop and tights or you know, it's
true, but she doesn't cover upanymore.
She actually goes out inclothes that make her feel like
she steps into her power.
She's like I feel confidentwearing this and it was just so
amazing to see this shiftbecause when she started, it was
I need to look this way to fitinto society, and now she's like
no, I am me, no one else, andthat's actually my power, and
(30:56):
she literally has just becomethe healthiest version of
herself and the ripple effectthat she has noticed it into her
relationships, her friendships,her career, because her
self-confidence has improved,her self-trust has improved, is
amazing, like it's so inspiringto see, and this is why I think
this journey is my pride andpassion, because, yes, this
(31:18):
journey has like a wholenutrition aspect to it and
obviously I'm a qualifiednutritionist, but I've done
extra training and studyingpsychology, because there's a
psychological aspect of thisjourney and when you pair both
of them together it's like youalmost become unstoppable.
And I know that when a lot ofwomen sat in she was in this
place as well.
She was like I have tried somany things.
She was so hesitant.
She was like I just I don'tknow if this is going to work,
because I've tried 50 otherthings and I always end up
(31:41):
exactly back where I started.
Right it's, I'm good for acouple of weeks.
Something happens.
Binge it, I'm back where Istarted.
Try something new, good for amonth.
Something happens.
Fall back.
Like it's that cycle that'sexhausting.
So I actually feel free, like aweight has been lifted off my
shoulders, and when we'retalking, it's like bringing me
to tears, because I think for alot of women they're like I
don't see how this can bepossible.
(32:01):
I don't actually see how I canhave food freedom and that
control, because this is howI've been like this for years.
And that's where I want tochange the story for so many
women that you actually can't.
You can get to that place where, yeah, you have to think about
food a little bit because weneed it to live.
But it's not this all consumingobsession anymore.
There's no binging, there's nowanting to jump on the newest
(32:23):
restrictive diet trend that'sout there.
It's actually just you respectyour body, you accept your body,
you have control and you liveyour life Like.
You have energy to go onholidays, to spend time with
your friends and family, to notgo out for dinner and be
restricting all day.
Sit at the dinner at therestaurant table, having already
looked at the menu and knowingexactly what you want to have,
(32:45):
and then counting down theminutes until the waiter comes
over.
You order your food and you'recounting down the minutes until
your food gets there.
You go home, you eat morebecause you felt so guilty.
You actually haven't beenpresent at all or spent that
quality time or created corememories with anyone there.
It's like we get to change thatand I always say to some of my
clients this is it, this is ourone shot at life.
We don't get to come back.
We don't get a take two of this.
(33:06):
So you actually want to makesure that you are that
healthiest, most confident, thatbest version of yourself that
you actually get to be.
Amber Fischer (33:14):
Yeah, I love that .
It's a very similar approach tolooking at the root cause.
So my approach to PCOS is allabout looking at the root causes
of PCOS and managing those sothat there's a cascade, a ripple
effect to the actual symptoms.
We don't address the symptoms.
We address where the symptomscome from.
(33:35):
And in your work it's sosimilar because so many of the
symptoms come from that root ofthose basic issues with body
image and just self-acceptance.
So it's really cool to see how,when that changes, everything
else changes as well.
It's fascinating.
Mikaela Schifferle (33:55):
Well, that's how you create sustainable
results.
If you just address thesymptoms, it's just like
slapping a band-aid over the topof it and it's like, oh yeah,
you feel okay, so then it's justgoing to come back.
And that is literally.
My ultimate goal of everysingle one of my clients is this
is it.
I want to put an end to thisfor you so you can actually live
your life, and that's what Isaw when I was working at Weight
(34:15):
Watchers is women had been onand off Weight Watchers since
they were 15.
And now they're in their 60s.
That's their whole life.
It's like no, there has to be adifferent way.
I know.
Amber Fischer (34:24):
That's what I tell people too.
I'm like I want this to be thelast time that you ever do
anything, that you ever have toput this much effort or thought
into your food, like ever again.
You know, because it's justit's.
I mean, it is a vicious cycleand the research plays out that
that cycle is going to go againand again and again unless you
(34:45):
really deal with the deeperreasons behind why you're
falling into those patterns.
Yeah, absolutely so.
If anyone's listening right nowand they want like a practical
tip, maybe something that theycan follow today to start
(35:05):
working on some of this on theirown, is there anything that you
would tell them to do oranything that you would
recommend?
Mikaela Schifferle (35:13):
So the first thing I would say is start to
develop awareness around yourpatterns, around your behaviors.
What, the why, the how, thewhen does it happen?
So actually recognize?
Do you have individual triggersthat play out?
Is it an emotion, is it stress,is it sadness, is it loneliness
, is it boredom?
What is it?
Specific food?
I want you to really take amoment to sit down and be like
(35:35):
do I have any restrictions thatare playing out?
You know, do I tell myself thatI can only have certain
portions of food, or I can'thave some foods?
If you're somebody who says, ohno, I can't have that in the
house, otherwise I'll eat theentire thing?
It's kind of like out of sight,out of mind type of thing.
That's a restriction, you know.
So start to just to get, getthat self awareness around all
of it, because then what you cando from there is you can then
start to pick and choose whichones you want to really slowly
(35:58):
start to work through, start tochallenge.
For an example, if you've toldyourself I can't keep chocolate
in the house because out ofsight, out of mind, then that
could be a great one to startwith, whereas, go out, buy five
blocks of chocolate called thefive block, like the five
chocolate block challenge, andhave them there, allow yourself
to have some every single day,guaranteed to start with.
Yes, you're going to eat alittle bit more than maybe what
you're wanting to, but you'reremoving that novelty.
(36:21):
It's always like I said myclients, if you would imagine a
cow in a field and the big fieldwas full of green, luscious
grass, and then in the middle ofthe field it was a little
fenced off area and that's wherethe cow was.
But the cow was, you know,shitting where it was eating.
The grass was dead.
It was just disgusting.
As soon as those gates openedand the cow can finally get out
into the green, luscious, widefield, it's absolutely going to
(36:43):
go to town.
It's like, oh my God, I have toeat as much as I can right now,
because what if I get lockedback up into that little mini
ugly?
We don't want to be there.
So, same as when you firstintroduce these fruits back in,
your mind's going to be like, oh, let's, let's, let's eat as
much as we can, just in case werestricted again.
But as your mind starts tolearn and trust that, oh my God,
we've got five blocks there.
We're all good.
(37:03):
You know we can have it everyday if we really truly want.
And I was like, oh, I can relax, and then you start to notice
that you start to forget aboutthe chocolate being there.
You only eat it.
You know, when it crosses yourmind you have like two squares
one day, four squares the nextday, like it.
Just you go with the flow rightand it all levels out.
So you but little bit, bylittle bit, a little bit becomes
a lot.
So start to challenge very,very slowly.
But then I would say the thirdthing on top of that is reach
(37:25):
out for help.
No one has to go through thisjourney alone.
It is so mentally consuming,really, and there's going to be
challenging.
You get bits, you're going tohit roadblocks, speed bumps.
It's okay.
It's okay if you're on ajourney, but if you have
somebody there helping you everystep of the way, you obviously
get there a lot more effectively.
Amber Fischer (37:41):
Yeah, you get definitely that's true of so
many different things withhealth.
If you have a guide to help youthrough it and an objective
outside opinion, it really doeshelp confront sort of your
internal biases and the placeswhere you're maybe like skirting
around different things.
(38:02):
And, yeah, it's, it's important.
So, if it's possible for you,definitely work with someone
Speaking of that.
If people are listening to youand they're kind of resonating
with your message or yourapproach, where can they find
you?
You know what, what, where?
How should they reach out toyou?
Tell us.
(38:22):
I know you have a podcastbecause I've been on it.
Shout out to my episodeFavorite.
Yeah, tell us about that.
Mikaela Schifferle (38:30):
Yeah, so you can have it head over to my
Instagram, which is KJ Wellness,with three S's.
I'm always in my DMs.
I share so much content overthere.
I do have my own podcast.
If you have enjoyed listeningto my voice, then that is called
Naked Wellness, where I havelots of guests on.
It's just all about the raw,naked truth about health and
healing your relationship withfood, which is awesome, but they
(38:51):
would be probably the two mainplaces to go to.
Otherwise, if you can also headstraight over to my website,
which has more information aboutmy own story and all of that,
which is literally justKJWheelnesscomau.
Amber Fischer (39:02):
Cool, and we will link to all of that in the show
notes.
You guys can check it out ifyou want to learn more.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here, mikayla.
This was a really good episode.
I really enjoyed talking withyou.
Mikaela Schifferle (39:14):
Thank you so much for having me.
Amber Fischer (39:15):
All right, anything else you want to add
before we go?
I should ask you that before.
No, okay, all right, talk toyou guys later.
Bye.
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