Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to An
Amber a Day.
I'm your host, amber Fisher,and I'm very excited that you're
here today.
We are going to talk aboutsomething else that's maybe a
little controversial, and thatis leptin resistance and
intuitive eating and how thosework when you have PCOS or don't
work when you have PCOS, andwhere we can find sort of a
(00:24):
balance there, probably how Iwould tell you to do things if I
were your nutritionist.
So let's get into it.
First, I do want to mention acouple of things.
There is a new way to supportthe podcast.
You can sponsor the show bypaying for, like Buy Me a Coffee
or whatever.
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(00:45):
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If you want to pledge like fivebucks a month, you can cancel
it out anytime.
Just to help get betterequipment.
Maybe hire an editor, gosh, youguys, I really want to hire an
editor, somebody to cut out allmy ums, because I feel like I
say some pretty good stuff onhere.
But the editing of this podcasttakes me ages and that is the
(01:10):
main reason why I don't postmore.
So if we had an editor, youmight get a true weekly podcast
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that.
The thing is, you guys havebeen so sweet leaving me the
five star reviews on ApplePodcasts and I can actually tell
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(01:33):
which is always the exciting andalso kind of scary.
But I want it to continue.
I'm excited to have us reachinga larger audience and just
getting the message out aboutPCOS and nutrition and all the
things that we can do.
All right, what is leptinresistance?
Have you ever heard of thatbefore?
(01:54):
So I find it's about half andhalf.
There was a little bit of timewhere people were talking a lot
about leptin resistance becausethey were talking a lot about
insulin resistance and it seemslike it's kind of fallen out of
fashion to talk about it.
But leptin is a hormone thatkind of helps to control your
satiety signals.
So if you've heard of ghrelin,ghrelin is a hormone that your
(02:15):
stomach produces.
It kind of like helps you tofeel hungry, and leptin is kind
of the hormone that your bodysecretes to help you feel full,
and so in PCOS, we know that wehave issues with both hormones,
but particularly with leptin,and it's associated with how
(02:36):
much extra body fat we carry,how insulin resistant we are and
how high our androgen levelsare.
So, essentially, the moresevere your PCOS symptoms are,
the more likely you are to haveleptin resistance, and so I'm of
the opinion that almost all ofus with PCOS are probably
dealing with some level ofleptin resistance, particularly
(02:57):
if we struggle with our weightmaintenance, with weight gain,
with weight loss, if we strugglewith issues around food like
binge, restrict, cycling andthings like that.
Now, that said, of course, ifyou have a diagnosed disordered
eating tendency of some sort,there are other things involved
(03:21):
there too, and trauma can be afactor in your relationship to
food and all that kind of stuff.
So I'm not suggesting thatleptin resistance is the only
thing.
However, we often don't talkabout leptin resistance as being
part of this factor of issueswith PCOS surrounding food.
Why is it that so many of uswith PCOS have disordered
(03:42):
relationships to food?
We know childhood trauma andthings like that is more common
in PCOS, but certainly noteverybody who has PCOS has
trauma and insulin resistance,we know, can contribute to
issues with satiety signals, butnot everyone with PCOS has
(04:03):
raging insulin resistance, andsome of us with PCOS don't
struggle with weight at all.
Some of us are underweight.
There's a lot of differentfactors going on in the
relationship that we might haveto food, but so often what I'm
seeing people do is turn theother way on biological,
(04:27):
hormonal or chemical sort ofsignaling issues that might be
getting in the way of this.
The focus is so much on thepsychological aspect.
I don't know about you guys,but I find the concept that the
only thing that I can do tomanage any kind of disordered
relationship around food is kindof let the whole thing go and
(04:50):
work on, like my psychologicalstate around food.
There is absolutely abiological, physical component
to our relationship with foodthat we don't talk about enough.
We also don't talk about thefact that eating food stimulates
the vagus nerve, and so onereason why people can overeat is
because, if they have anxiety,sometimes stimulating that vagus
(05:13):
nerve by having food literallytravel down the throat makes you
feel better, reduces yourstress.
So is that emotional or is itphysical?
It's kind of a combo of twothings, right, so it's a self
soothing technique for sure.
Now, leptin resistance issomething that's going to make
it harder for you to understandwhen you are full and when
(05:39):
you're satiated.
So what this often means inPCOS is we eat too much because
we don't feel quite full enough.
So we kind of keep eating andour satiety signals sort of
catch up to us later.
So oftentimes we overeat, laterwe will feel extra full or our
stomach will hurt or we'll feelbloated or whatever, but we
(06:02):
won't feel that until it's kindof too late, because we've been
waiting for that satiety signaland we have resistance to it.
So it's similar to the conceptof insulin resistance, where
your body keeps pumping out theinsulin to deal with your blood
sugar and it's making more thanit should.
The same thing with leptin.
It's like your cells are notopening up to that signal from
(06:22):
leptin saying, hey, we're full,like, slow down, stop, we don't
need any more food.
So what that means is that youmay struggle with figuring out
how much is enough, when isenough enough, when is it not
enough.
And if you go purely based offof those signals those satiety
(06:44):
signals, whether you feel fullor whether you feel hungry and
cravings surrounding that, ifyou base your nutrition plan
solely on that, what I have seenis that a large percentage of
people do not do well with that.
It becomes more defeating inthe end, because their body's
(07:07):
signals are not signalingproperly, and so they're trying
to listen to their body'ssignals, but they end up
following these sort of warpedsignals, which then get them
going down the same path thatthey were trying to avoid.
This definitely has been thecase for me I think I talked
about this in a previous podcastwhere, for example, if I've
(07:29):
eaten more sugar let's say Iwent on vacation or something
and I'm eating a lot more sugarstarches than I usually do I
find that it can very quicklysort of snowball into this thing
where suddenly I'm cravingsugar all the time and now it's
not just a little sweet treatafter dinner, now it's like I've
got to have one in theafternoon and I've got to have
one in the morning, and then,before you know it, the cravings
can become a little bit out ofcontrol.
(07:50):
Is there a psychologicalelement to that?
Sure, I'm sure there is.
But there's also a physicalcomponent to it.
There's a physical hunger.
There's a signal to my braintelling me hey, you want sweets,
you're hungry for a sweet andyou need it.
And that is very hard toovercome, particularly when
(08:11):
you're trying to just do itintuitively.
Now, before I get myself introuble by talking about
intuitive eating in a way thatit's not really intended, I do
want to state that I know thattrue intuitive eating is not
solely based on craving cues.
There are other factors that gointo being intuitive with your
body and that's the kind ofintuitive eating that I believe
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those with PCOS should bepracticing and should be working
towards, and I'll kind ofexplain what that looks like
later.
But the way that a lot of peopleinterpret the concept of
intuitive eating is, I think,where it can get a little bit
problematic for PCOS.
Now, some of us interpretintuitive eating as basically
just listen to any time I have acraving, listen to how hungry
(08:57):
my body's telling my am and eataccordingly.
So if I'm craving sweets, carbs, whatever it may be, I'm going
to eat those and I'm going toeat until I feel satisfied, and
in theory that sounds wonderful,right, it takes all the
pressure off.
We're just listening, we justneed to be mindful, we need to
(09:18):
slow down weight, let our body,sort of like, tell us what it
needs, and it does work really,really well for a lot of people,
especially people who have beenharmed in the past by diet
culture or who don't have issueswith insulin resistance and
things like that.
However, for a lot of us withPCOS it doesn't work well, and
(09:40):
the reason that I feelcomfortable saying that is
because I've been told that bynumerous, numerous people and
I've had that experience myself,where that sort of following my
body signals and cues doesn'treally translate into me eating
what's appropriate or good formy body.
It instead leads me towardsslight increases over time in
(10:03):
the amount of sugar, starch andusually saturated fat that I'm
craving, with very littleability to tell when I've had
too much of those specific typesof foods.
So protein, sure, my body willtell me you've had enough
proteins for your filling.
Veggies definitely have an offswitch with veggies, but when it
(10:23):
comes to dessert sometimes thebrain doesn't have a real good
off switch.
For that we often call dessertsand other fast food items in
nutrition that's called thehyperpalatable trifecta, because
their foods convenience foods,usually made from sugar, salt
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and fat, and the combo of sugar,salt and fat together is one of
the most addictive combos forthe brain.
It just tastes delicious, it'shigh calorie and that means it's
hyperpalatable.
So what that means is it's verytasty.
Your brain wants more and moreof that because our brain's a
primal and they're programmed towant more of high calorie,
(11:06):
dense foods in order to help usstore a little extra for the
famine.
But we're not living in a timeof famine anymore.
We're not living in well Ishouldn't say that we're in the
developed world.
We're not living in a type offamine for the majority of us
who don't live in food desertsand things like that.
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Most of us have more thanenough access at least to those
kinds of cheap, hyperpalatablefoods, and so we don't have that
same problem of needing to kindof store up enough for winter.
And that's, I think, where thoseof us with PCOS tend to get
into some trouble here, becausemy belief is that the PCOS brain
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is a bit more primal than maybethe average person, and I
remember reading something aboutthis and for the life of me I
cannot find it whenever I lookfor it.
So if you guys have read this,send it to me.
But I remember reading anarticle about how researchers
were thinking that those withPCOS were carriers or inheritors
of some more primal geneticsrelated to fat storage.
(12:13):
Because if your ancestors hadlived in a time of famine, you
would likely have been morefertile because of your ability
to hold on to more body fat, andso it was like a genetic
mutation, essentially to kind ofhelp.
You tend towards more fatstorage in order to keep you and
(12:36):
yours, keep your linecontinuing.
And, like I said, I haven'tbeen able to find that article
again, so maybe I dreamed it,but it rang really true for me
because I do feel like somepeople.
Let me take my husband, forexample.
My husband is a naturally thinperson.
Certainly has had his share ofhealth issues.
(12:57):
It's not that he hasn't everbeen in an unhealthy state, but
he's never had issues withweight or with insulin.
He can drink regular sodas, hecan have cookies and cake and
things like that, and it doesn'tspike his blood sugar like
crazy and it's not necessarilyhard on his body from those
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perspectives.
He also has an off switch whenit comes to dessert.
So there will be times whenwe're both eating the same
dessert and my brain is tellingme to continue eating.
It's telling me I'm stillhungry, my stomach's telling me
I'm still hungry and his is like, oh my gosh, I gotta stop like
this enough.
And so if I let myself keepgoing, I can throw back double
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of the dessert than him, andhe's six foot three, so there's
something that's not quite up topar with those signals.
And, in fairness, my own hungersignal issues do have somewhat
of a trauma basis.
There's some stuff in my pastthat sort of makes the
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psychological aspect part ofwhat I'm dealing with.
So when I use my own personalexperiences I just wanna be
clear that that's part of thepicture too.
But I just know a lot of peoplelike this where they've tried
intuitive eating.
They've tried to listen totheir body signals and it just
doesn't seem to work.
They just seem to keep gainingweight and it doesn't have the
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intended effect.
You hear about people who switchto intuitive eating and
suddenly they feel like theyhave a freedom around food and
they feel so much better.
They feel like they eat whatthey want and their body tells
them what they need and so theylisten to all their signals and
they just feel so much better.
But with PCOS, what I find isthat a lot of us who try to do
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that we feel less freedom aroundfood.
We feel more controlled by foodbecause we feel more confused
about food.
We're like wait a second.
I thought I wasn't supposed tohave sugar all day long, but
that's the only thing I'mwanting.
You're not wanting anythingelse.
My body's not telling me youneed to eat, like it's hungry
(15:08):
for vegetables.
It's not telling me it's hungryfor protein.
It's only telling me at oncethis or that and so.
And the argument that I've heardon the other side is a little
just keep going, keep going withit and eventually switch.
I've seen some people who'vekept going and it hasn't
switched for them.
So I just think it's like it'skind of dismissive.
A lot of times when people runinto issues with that type of
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intuitive eating, the responseis just like, well, you're not
doing it right, or like youhaven't let go enough, or you're
just like it's just a littledismissive.
The reality is that there are alot of people who have tried
and failed at listening to theirbody's cues, and what I think
is going on here is that, withPCOS, we have to have our
(15:52):
emotional state, our body's cues.
We need to listen to those,paired with our logic and our
nurturing mind.
So there's two things going on.
There's, out of love forourselves, we are going to,
without judgment, eat what ourbody is telling us it wants to
(16:13):
eat.
At the same time, we're goingto be using what everyone call
it your higher self or whoever,to inform the fact that we also
need to mother ourselves andnurture ourselves by making sure
that we eat the things that aregoing to make us feel better in
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the long term.
So there's kind of like a meshof the two things going on, and
the real point is that all ofit's done without judgment, all
of it's done from a place oflove.
But I always get this examplewith my son.
He's three and a half and hewould love nothing more,
probably, than to just eatchocolate chips all day.
He loves chocolate chips and Iwould love to see the joy on his
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face just feeding him nothingbut chocolate chips.
And I do give him a lot ofchocolate chips because
chocolate is a great antioxidantand it, you know, bad for you
thing.
And he's a little kid, you know.
At the same time, I know thathis body also needs protein so
that his muscles can grow and sothat he has the different amino
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acids that he needs.
I know that he needs to eatsome veggies so that he gets
some antioxidants too and hegets fiber and all that kind of
stuff.
I know that if I don't feed himenough fibrous foods, that he
will have trouble going to thebathroom and that will be
painful for him later.
So I'm thinking ahead and Ithink that's what we have to do
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with.
Intuitive eating is we don'tnecessarily have to throw it all
out the window and say I'mgoing to strictly follow this
calorie amount for breakfast,lunch or dinner, this macro and
this, and that we can be alittle bit more like, intuitive
with it and say, okay, like forbreakfast, I generally am going
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to have this makeup of foods,but we're gonna think about what
we want right now and we'regonna think about what our body
is gonna want from us later aswell.
So I always think about it formyself, like if I were a child.
If there's a little girl insideof me who's craving whatever,
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what would a good mom tell me todo or not to do?
What would be something that mymommy would let me do or not do
?
And typically, if it's you knowday, I haven't had a snack yet
or anything like that, and maybeI want like a chocolate chip
cookie or something I think,okay, if I were my own mom, I
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would probably let myself have achocolate chip cookie, but my
natural kind of inclinationmight be like, instead of just
one, maybe I'd have three, ormaybe I'd have four, you know.
And so what would a mom do?
A mom would let you have thecookie, but ideally the mom
would probably not let you havefour cookies because you'd spoil
at your dinner.
So I just kind of like thinkabout it that way and I don't
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know that's a helpful device forme, but there are many
different ways that people kindof felt with themselves.
But I find that you know,especially if we have like inner
child issues or what have you?
Pretending to be our own momand re-parenting ourselves,
basically, can be really helpfulin figuring out how to
understand our satiety signals.
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Now the other thing that weneed to do is understand how
leptin and insulin are going toimpact our body signals and
prepare our meals to offset themas much as possible, because
we're always going to have thesesort of issues, but they don't
have to be as bad.
The more under control yourPCOS symptoms are, the less
severe both of these things are.
(19:54):
So the cool thing is that asyou improve your PCOS symptoms,
as you keep working on your PCOSnutrition.
With time you might be able tobe a lot more intuitive than you
were before.
This has definitely been thecase for me.
There have been times in mylife where I've had to be more
structured, more strict, I guessand and have you know, more
(20:15):
thought go into my meals.
There's definitely kind of aswitch in mindset and
relationship around food.
That often happens, but withtime I've been able to let go of
that somewhat.
I'm not counting macros,calories or grams of protein at
(20:36):
my meals anymore, you know.
But I do know, like generally,what my plate should look like
and I'm kind of following thatin my head the majority of the
time.
Nothing is all the time.
Nothing is never Moderation andall things, but I think if we
can understand that, like leptinresistance, for example, is
(20:58):
going to make it harder for usto know when we're full, then
one of the things that we mightwant to start by doing is taking
more time with our meals, andthis is something that any
person who works with intuitiveeating will tell you.
You need to be more mindfulwith your food.
Often with PCOS, we kind ofwe're eating on the go, we're
shoveling our food down andwe're getting on with our day,
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and so, you know, not great foryour digestive juices and your
enzymes and all those things tobreak down your food and your
food might not sit well with youif you do that In theory.
If you're measuring out yourmeals and you have them all
perfectly appropriate for PCOSand you've shoveled on your food
, is it going to make that bigof a difference with your goals?
(21:43):
In the end?
Probably not, because you'reeating the correct quantity that
you previously determined.
However, if you're trying toeat intuitively and you're
eating really fast, it can bereally difficult to know when
you've had enough.
I find this is especially truewhen eating something like fast
food and eating while driving.
If you're not paying attentionto eating, it's very easy to
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just like keep eating, keepeating, keep eating.
And if you eat too fast, youreally won't give your leptin
time to catch up.
And so what often happens isfolks with PCOS will overeat.
They'll finally start to feelfull after eating, you know,
higher than what their bodyactually needed, and then that
(22:27):
sends their blood sugar spiking,which then causes that increase
in insulin.
So then you start getting onthe blood sugar roller coaster,
right?
You're feeling really tiredafter your meal, but then, like,
two hours later, you need toeat again, and so the cycle
continues.
So the first strategy toimprove our leptin resistance
and allow us to be moreintuitive with food is to take
your time with your meals.
(22:48):
Sit down, chew appropriatelythere's no set number, but like,
chew 25 times, I don't know.
Chew until your food is reallychewed and very well coated with
saliva, because did you knowthat as enzymes go, the enzymes
that digest carbs are secretedby your tongue, so they're made
(23:11):
in your saliva, and so if youdon't coat your food with saliva
, you'll have a hard timebreaking down carbs.
Anyway, that's neither here northere.
Chew your food really well,take each bite, then set your
fork down.
That's another little techniquethat can be helpful, as just
setting things down in betweenbites.
It's also helpful often if youeat with other people, if
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possible.
So people often eat lessoverall when they're eating as
part of a group, not because ofpeer pressure, but because
they're talking, and if you talkin between bites, then you
eventually get full faster thanyou would before.
Another technique thatsometimes people do is just take
a sip of water between bites.
I would caution with this one,that that can dilute your
(23:56):
stomach acid, which you need tobreak down your food.
So, especially if it's a bigmeal like a steak or something
like that, I wouldn't probablydo that because I think you'll
have digestive issues afterwards, like you might struggle to
break down that meal.
So typically I try to avoiddrinking too much during my
meals.
But it is a nice device to kindof like slow you down.
So if there's something you cando, some little ritual you can
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do to kind of slow down youreating process and then, as
often as possible, to eat whenyour attention can be focused on
your eating, that's mindfuleating and that is really.
It's really important for allof us.
It will start to train yourbrain a bit more on.
You know what it needs, what itdoesn't need.
The other thing I would suggestis, if you are gonna have to be
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on the go, to do more prep inyour mind on what's gonna be
good for your body and yourlong-term health.
So let's say you do need to goand get fast food or something
like that.
You might be really hungry.
You might know that you can eata large french fry, for example
(25:02):
, but it's gonna be verydifficult for you to intuitively
stop eating those french frieswhen you're ready because you're
gonna be driving and you're notgonna be able to pay attention.
So order a small meal or a mealthat kind of meets your goals a
little bit more.
That way it's almost like astopper on yourself.
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I don't know some people do thisalready, but one of my old MOs
was like I would order more foodthan I was intending to eat.
I would just like up-sizewhatever I was getting, because
I'm like I'm not gonna eat allthese fries, but I also don't
wanna get to the end of my friesand want more fries.
You know what I mean.
So don't do that.
That's probably not the bestway to do things, especially if
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you're not gonna be able to befocused on what you're eating,
because it's that focus thathelps you figure out those
satiety signals.
And when I say focus, thatincludes not watching TV or
scrolling through TikToks orscrolling on your phone while
you eat.
I know that's hard, but again,if you're gonna do more of that
stuff, set yourself up forsuccess by not giving yourself
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the substrate to overdo.
That goes for lunches, allkinds of stuff like that I find
people often do at lunches.
Another device that's helpful isto not just plan your meals
around how you're feeling as faras what you're craving, but to
have the craving along withother things that your body does
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well with.
So what I mean by this is,let's say, you are craving
cookies.
Instead of just having thecookies, you understand that you
might be craving the cookiesand so, intuitively, you're
gonna follow that cue and eat acookie.
But at the same time, you alsoknow that your body does well,
or does better, with moreprotein.
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So have the cookies with Greekyogurt, for example, or
something that's gonna helpbalance out the ratio of the
different ingredients in there.
So if you're having dinner andyou're only craving mashed
potatoes, you can have themashed potatoes, but then also
think about having a piece ofsalmon, even if it's just a
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small piece, and having likesome broccoli or something like
that.
You're pairing meals together.
You're pairing foods togetherwith the cravings.
So on the one hand, you'reindulging the cravings, who you
are being intuitive.
On the other hand, you'remothering yourself, you're
caveatting yourself, you're kindof balancing yourself out.
It's all about that.
Balance really is what leads tolong-term success.
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Another tip would be to try notto skip meals if you're early on
in your intuitive eatingjourney.
So skipping meals, fasting,things like that they can be
supportive for some peoplelonger term, but at the
beginning of repairing sort of arelationship around food and
repairing leptin resistance,it's often better to have
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regular meals, scheduled mealsand snacks, because the
scheduled meals will helpprevent you from ever getting
too hungry.
It'll help you prevent you fromoverdoing it at the meal that
you're allowing yourself to eat.
So like if you're not eatingall day but you're eating dinner
and you eat fast and you'recraving different things, it can
be really easy to kind of likeget into a situation there.
(28:19):
So eating regular meals, havingplanned snacks, that can be
really effective.
I think, more than anything else, planning is really key when it
comes to PCOS nutrition and Iknow planning doesn't always go
with the concept of intuitiveeating, but I've seen people run
into more issues when they'reunprepared than anything else,
(28:42):
and so if you're already hungrybut you have no leftovers in the
fridge, you have no quick, easythings to put together.
It's a lot easier to just graba handful of Oreos or to have
some of your I don't know to godoordash something, having
prepared a meal structure foryourself in advance, maybe
(29:06):
prepped some things on theweekend or have something that's
thawed and ready to cook in thefridge, or having even just
something like deli meat, cheese, sticks, nuts, things that are
easy to snack on but that are alittle bit more nutritionally
balanced.
That's going to set you up alot more for success than just
kind of waiting around forcravings to strike.
(29:28):
So being as prepared aspossible is also really helpful
when recovering from leptinresistance and insulin
resistance and just in generalfor nutrition.
A lot of us don't put a bigfocus on our food.
We put everything else first,right Like other people's needs,
(29:49):
what they need to do.
We often put other people aboveourselves, but even with our
own self we often put our otherneeds above our nutritional
needs.
We might put our exercise needsor our water needs or something
not even related to that.
We might put our need for restor put our need for friendship
and community and all thosethings right.
(30:09):
Everything's important.
That's why it's hard to pick,but as a nutrition professional
I'm a little biased and I thinkthat if you put your nutrition
in a high spot, then you willfeel better in general, have
more energy and be able to do alot more of the things that you
wanna do, whereas if you're noteating well I know you're gonna
feel tired, you're just gonnawanna lay on the couch.
(30:31):
So putting your nutrition in ahigh place of importance in your
life is really helpful for youroverall life and the balance of
your life.
So that's a little bit aboutleptin resistance and how you
can implement some strategies tohelp you be a bit more
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intuitive with your PCOS eatingand just more balanced overall.
So those are some of myfavorite strategies for PCOS
focused, intuitive eating.
It's a lot more about, again,the combination of listening to
your body's cravings and signals, while also listening to your
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higher self or inner mother'sguidance on what you need.
So intuitive eating can't justbe about what we want.
It has to be about what we needtoo, and, again, all from a
place of love and not from aplace of judgment.
That's the hard part.
The hard part is not judgingourselves when we inevitably
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have bad days, but you don'tneed to.
This is a process, right?
We're learning and we'relearning together, so good luck.
I would love to hear from youguys if you have any strategies
that I didn't share, because I'mgetting to the end of this and
I'm like I feel like there's acouple of things that I could
have said, but I didn't rememberor not on my notes, so please
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feel free to send an email tothe podcast if you want to.
You can email an Amber a daypodcast at gmailcom and let me
know if there's anything that Iforgot.
And thanks for being here onceagain.
Appreciate you all and I'lltalk to you soon.
Bye.