PCOS and the Emotional Landscape: A Candid Conversation on PCOS Mental Health, Depression, And the Stages of Grief

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Navigating the intricacies of PCOS and mental health is a dance I've come to know all too well. In this episode, we'll go through the maze of emotions that accompany a chronic condition like PCOS, from grappling with the stages of grief post-diagnosis to the realities of mental health concerns with depression and anxiety when living with PCOS. I discuss my own path, marked by personal losses and triumphs, to illuminate the powerful link between our physical health and our mental well-being, and how the food we eat plays a critical role in this delicate balance.  We'll also discuss some strategies to help with our mental health in PCOS. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to an Amber a Day, the Functional
Nutrition Podcast.
I'm your host, amber Fisher,and I'm excited about today's
topic.
You may also notice that itsounds a little bit different
today.
There is a reason for that andthe reason is that I finally got
a new microphone.
Yay, thanks to you guys forlistening and for listening

(00:21):
through the ads that randomlypop up on the podcast from time
to time.
I have been able to get us anew mic so you can more clearly
hear my beautiful voice.
Now, in the spirit of today'spodcast, which is going to be
about PCOS and mental health andthe grieving process of chronic

(00:41):
illness and anxiety, I'm goingto share some of my personal
experiences with that stuff withyou guys today as well.
But in the spirit of that, therecovering perfectionist in me
has not been treated kindly bythe universe the last 24 hours.
I don't know what it is, isMercury retrograde or something

(01:02):
but I've been putting offgetting this microphone set up
for two weeks since I bought it.
Of course, I bought it allexcited and then when I got here
, I was super overwhelmed like,oh no, no, I have to actually
set it up.
I got one of those cute boomarms and I'm going to have this
whole little set up in my office, where it's going to be a

(01:24):
little studio, I kind of likehow I used to do my podcast.
If you've ever checked out myYouTube, shout out to my YouTube
.
I'm actually going to be makingmore long form videos for
YouTube this year.
So if you're not subscribedalready, subscribe it up,
because I'm going to have somegood stuff on there that you
won't see other places.
If you go on my YouTube, a lotof my videos that are on there

(01:45):
currently are old podcast videosand stuff from when I actually
did record in the studio and Iwent through the time to splice
the audio and all this stuff.
But now I'm getting more savvy,I'm getting more technologically
advanced and, yeah, I figuredout how to get this thing set up
.
But when I went to go open upthe boom arm and get it all

(02:05):
ready to record for today, theboom arm apparently arrived
broken, so I couldn't do that.
So I'm like okay.
My first thought was, oh great,now I can't record.
And you guys know I have a fouryear old, so my time to record
is quite limited.
So I'm like, great, I can'trecord.

(02:25):
And then I thought you knowwhat, but it doesn't have to be
perfect.
Like, maybe I just record theaudio, maybe I just use the new
mic on a stand, record the audioand we get a podcast up here,
an important podcast that I'mexcited to talk about, one that
I already have all my notes forand everything.
So that's what I decided to do.
So this is like a littlepreview of what the new sound is

(02:48):
going to be.
Anyway, we're here, I wanted totalk about this stuff and I
think it's important and it's areally interesting topic for me,
actually, because I've lived alot of it personally.
So now, before we do that, Ihave some stuff I want to share
about related to the podcast,essentially my goals for this

(03:11):
year for the podcast, becauseI'm going to be changing things
up a little bit and you know youmay or may not like that.
So I want to share so thatyou'll be aware.
But I know, personally, when Ilisten to podcasts, my favorite
thing is just like a podcastwhere I feel like I kind of like
know the host, I'm like friendswith her and I listen to her
while I clean and it's justreally nice to have the voice of

(03:36):
somebody in the background,basically, and what kind of
inspired me to sort of make itofficial was, if you guys are on
TikTok, I think her name isRisa Tisa.
She's sharing the who the F DidI Marry series and it's like 50
parts and they're all like 10minutes long, of her story of

(03:57):
this pathologically lying personthat she married.
And it's very fascinating,right.
But she wasn't trying to giveit to you in sound bites, she
wasn't trying to do it in 60seconds or less, and she was
just talking the way she talks,like the way she would talk to a
friend, telling her story, andthat was so refreshing, honestly

(04:21):
, because the ups and downs ofjust being a content creator I
really hate that title, but Iguess that's what I am in a lot
of ways, anyway the ups anddowns of that and trying to
adjust to what these algorithmsare wanting and all that.
It gets exhausting sometimesand I'm kind of sick of it.

(04:43):
I'm kind of sick of doing that,so I'm just not going to do it
anymore.
Peace, anyway.
So here we are and we're justgoing to this podcast.
I think is a good introductionto that style, because I've got
some notes, I've got some factsto share, but I also have
personal experience in this andreally vulnerable experience

(05:07):
here, so I want to share thatwith you so that hopefully it
will help you, it'll inspire you.
Okay, let's talk about PCOS andmental health.
So I mean, why is this even atopic in the first place, right?
Do those two things evenconnect?
I think a lot of times peoplethink that the brain and the
body are kind of two differentareas, right?
So, like, our mental health isseparate from our physical

(05:29):
health, but in actuality theyare very much connected and they
feed each other, and so aperson who has mental health
issues may also have morephysical issues and vice versa.
And in a lot of ways theoverlap is so much that it can
be hard to tell.
And if you look at people indifferent career paths, you'll

(05:50):
see that they tend to have abias towards their own.
So, like, for a long time, myown personal career path went
the route of nutrition.
I almost became a therapistthat's a story for another time
but I was like set to go to getmy master's degree in social
work and I was going to become acounselor, and then I just like
decided to switch and go fornutrition, because that's what I

(06:14):
really wanted to do and anyway,if you talk to me 10 years ago,
I very much had the opinion andthat, like depression and
mental health issues were verymuch a reaction to the brain of
a physical issue.
So there are a lot of differentthings which we'll talk about,
that can impact mental health,and inflammation being a big one

(06:38):
, insulin resistance being one,adrenal dysfunction being one,
all things that we deal withwith PCOS right.
And so what I noticed is that,working with people who also had
diagnosis of mental healthissues, particularly like
depression and anxiety, theirdepression and anxiety would get
better, particularly theirdepression would really really

(07:00):
improve when they worked ontheir nutrition and I came to
this sort of conclusion that,like the majority of people
diagnosed with depression, ifthey would just change the way
that they ate, change theirlifestyle a bit, they probably
wouldn't need, you know, theywouldn't be so down and
depressed and so, okay, yes, Iknow I don't have that opinion

(07:23):
100% anymore, but this was backbefore I dealt with any
depression issues myself.
Back then I really reallywholeheartedly kind of believed
that, like most mental healthstuff was physical, was
nutrition based, and I still dobelieve that it plays a huge,
huge role and may be the causefor, like, a significant amount

(07:45):
of people diagnosed withdepression, and I think there's
evidence to support that if youlook at the inflammation
depression connection.
But that said, if you talk tomental health therapists,
they're going to tell you theopposite, right, and you're
going to be like your depressionis it's chemical imbalance in

(08:07):
the brain or whatever you know,or it's trauma related.
And if you work on those things, if you work on the mental
health aspect right, then youmay make better choices with
your nutrition.
And I know a lot of reallywonderful therapists.
A lot of my friends aretherapists.
When I've talked to themparticularly about this topic,
what I hear a lot is you knowthat they acknowledge that there

(08:31):
is absolutely a connectionbetween diet and mental health,
but they also believe that youknow it's mostly a mental health
issue.
That then bleeds into like ifthey were to change their diet,
it would.
It would help, but it wouldn'tlike take away the underlying
issue, and there may be truth tothat as well for a lot of

(08:51):
people.
So the truth, as with anythingI really believe, lies somewhere
in the middle.
There's a gray area there.
I think both things areactually like critical to human
happiness and success.
You know, knowing how tonavigate mental health, working
on resolving patterns associatedwith trauma, but then also

(09:15):
really working on diet andnutrition, like you kind of
can't, you can't get 100% of theway there without both of them.
But I digress.
The reason that this isinteresting to talk to in the
context of PCOS is because, likeI said, so many of the physical
issues that we deal with arekind of precursors to depression

(09:39):
, and we actually do know thatthose with PCOS are more likely
to deal with mental healthissues.
So I pulled up several studieshere talking about this and so
there's definitely a connectionbetween more incidences of
depression in particular, butalso anxiety, bipolar disorder
and obsessive compulsivedisorder in PCOS.

(10:01):
And you know there's a lot ofthought about like where that
might come from or why thatmight be, and what I see is like
kind of the dichotomy thereagain of those two fields, like
sort of arguing with each otherabout whose field is more
important, when at the end ofthe day it's probably both right

(10:21):
, but nevertheless it'simportant because it does impact
PCOS and it is something that alot of us are dealing with and
struggling with.
So if you have some depression,some anxiety, any of that stuff
that you are dealing withmanaging.
However you are managing it,you are not alone, for sure, and

(10:46):
you know life has a wayespecially with me fun of giving
me first hand experience forthings that I have opinions
about.
So I was born as a person wholikes to have an opinion and I
do tend to form them quiteregularly, and then sometimes it
takes me some lived experienceto sort of change my opinion or

(11:09):
soften my opinion, and I thinkthat's why my default now is to
be very much like to each hisown.
This can be true and that canbe true.
Life is about gray areas, etcetera, et cetera, because I've
experienced so much of that sortof I believe this is true about
nutrition, and then somestudies come out.

(11:29):
I'm like oops, I was wrong, orI realize how connected my
opinions about nutrition were tomy stuff I went through as a
child or like my insecurities oryou know, all that kind of
stuff.
So definitely I've had somelived experience with this topic
that I'm going to share withyou guys, and it has softened my

(11:50):
opinion about mental health andtreating mental health, which
is probably good.
It probably needed to happen,although I would have loved for
it to happen without me actuallyhaving to deal with some of
this stuff.
But anyway, you know there's ahormonal aspect to PCOS as well
that can alter the signaling ofneurotransmitters.

(12:10):
So it's not necessarily thatall the depression, anxiety and
whatever that we're dealing withPCOS is particularly because
either we eat badly or it'sbecause we just naturally have
these higher levels of insulinor inflammation or whatever.
It can also be that the hormoneimbalances that we're dealing
with too much estrogen or toomany androgens can alter the

(12:33):
chemistry of the brain, theneurotransmitters, and then
there could also be a feedbackloop there where it's like,
because we you know a lot of usare like low dopamine, right, we
may deal more with things likeADHD and that may make it more
difficult for us to stick to aroutine, for us to balance the

(12:56):
needs of a chronic healthcondition.
As far as nutrition goes, likemeal prepping, meal planning,
actually cooking, actuallyeating the food that we cooked,
eating leftovers, like sensoryissues with the way that things
feel and taste in the mouth,like all of these things are
things that I've seen a lot ofstruggle with with my personal
clientele and I think areconnected to changes in the

(13:20):
brain chemistry in PCOS, whetherinborn, like something that
you're born with and it sort ofmakes it harder to do those
things, or because you don't dothose things.
It continues to make it harderto do those things and it messes
with brain chemistry more, likeI mean there's a feedback loop,
right.
So it could be both, it couldbe all, it could be both, it
could be one or the other.

(13:40):
So we do know that those withPCOS deal with a lot more mental
health issues than thepopulation at large.
That's a fact that you're notgoing to see anybody arguing
about.
But why?
Why?
So we've talked about somethings already, right, hormones,
and.
But I want to go a little bitdeeper on some of the things

(14:01):
that I think make the biggestdifference.
And then I think that we havethe most maybe control or power
over, because, like, at the endof the day, a lot of the
information about PCOS that'sout there is a little, I mean,
it's kind of defeating.
It's like, okay, you have this,these are your problems, like,

(14:22):
and this is why you're somiserable.
Bye, you know.
And you're kind of like, okay,so, but like, how do I fix it?
Like, what do I do and it'shard.
I mean, I'll be honest with you, being on the other side of
that topic, getting thosequestions like okay, well, I
know I have insulin resistance,how do I fix it?
Like I get that comment.
You would not believe how muchI get that comment on like

(14:43):
TikTok or whatever.
How do I fix it?
And I'm like, babe, I wouldlove to tell you how to fix it
in 30 seconds or less, but itdoesn't work that way.
I wish it did If I had like amiracle cure for PCOS or like a
supplement, I don't know.
I see some of these other likewe would call it.
I don't know I I call them PCOSinfluencers, but I see them.

(15:04):
They're like Hawken.
You know they've got their ownsupplement lines or they they're
like they're Hawken, ova,zatala or whatever, as like it's
like this miracle cure, and I'mjust like, wow, you know, I
wish I believed that strongly inanything so that I could make
some money.
But the reality is that it'sjust not that simple.

(15:24):
That doesn't mean that there'snothing we can do, though that
doesn't mean that there aren'tsolutions.
It's just that I can't explainthem to you in half an hour,
even Like I can't explain themto you in a one hour podcast,
but I can do a better job ofexplaining that than I can in a
soundbite.
So there are a few things thatI feel like we have some control

(15:45):
and power over, and so that'swhere I want to focus our
attention, because the worstthing is to feel defeated, to
feel like you have no hope, tofeel like there's nothing you
can change.
But if you know that there aresome things that you can
actually do, then you can putyour effort towards that and you
can put your energy towardsthat.
And, as my old mentor used tosay, energy goes where energy

(16:06):
flows, and I really believe that.
I think whatever you kind offocus on, it comes to fruition.
So if you focus on everythingthat's wrong and how unfair it
is, then you'll noticeeverything that's wrong and how
unfair it is, or you can focuson the things that you can
actually do to change and toimprove and to feel better.

(16:29):
So let's talk about some ofthose things.
So the first thing I think ismore of a mental health sort of
thing rather than a nutritionthing, and it's that you have to
understand what happens whenyou are diagnosed with a chronic
health condition, like whathappens mentally to you.
So a lot of us don'tacknowledge that being diagnosed

(16:56):
with PCOS even though it's verycommon, even though it's not
life threatening, it's notcancer, it's not whatever but
being diagnosed with PCOS it's abig deal and it creates a.
There's an adjustment that hasto happen in your brain.
There's an adjustment that hasto happen in your body.

(17:17):
It's a life sentence in a lotof ways and a lot of us are
diagnosed and then we sort ofjust move on with our lives and
we kind of try to forget aboutit.
And I think that's where a lotof the problems with PCOS kind
of come into play.
Because if you continue to livelike you're, just like anyone

(17:39):
else and everything's totallynormal, then you're going to
experience more of the sideeffects and symptoms of PCOS.
You just are because you're notlike everyone else.
You can't eat like everyoneelse.
There's a commitment that hasto happen with how you treat
your body that's different fromother people and that really
sucks At the end of the day.
Who wants to do that?

(18:01):
I just want to go eat atChick-fil-A and then I want to.
I don't know.
I want to exercise when I feellike it, but not like out of
some sort of need.
Nobody wants to do, nobodywants to have to eat a certain
amount of protein witheverything they eat.
It's not fun, and that's not tosay that you 100% have to do it

(18:25):
like every single second ofevery day, of every meal for the
rest of your life.
But you do kind of have tofollow at least an 80, 20 rule
with this stuff or else you'regoing to experience more of the
side effects of your PCOS kindof the symptoms coming up.
So what I'm getting at here isthat being diagnosed with PCOS
requires us to go through agrieving process.

(18:47):
I talked about this a bit on Ithink it's called the Naked
Wellness podcast, kj Wellness.
I talked about this prettyrecently on there.
But being diagnosed with PCOS,you have to go through a
grieving process and you have tolet yourself do that.
Now I know some of you may belike yeah, real, like bet, I'm

(19:10):
already in the main stages ofgrief, I'm in the anger phase,
whatever.
But some of you are probablythinking like I'm being a little
bit dramatic, and I know I waslike that too.
I mean, when I got diagnosed Iwas more like OK, this is a
practical thing Like, yeah, I'vealways known I'm different, so
here at least I have a name forit and now I can figure out what

(19:32):
to do about it.
But the reality is that, becausePCOS does impact your mental
health as well as your physicalhealth, there's a difficulty
with that that we need toacknowledge.
I mean, there's a risk ofinfertility that's higher.
I certainly dealt with a lot ofinfertility.
That's very demoralizing.

(19:54):
And then there's higher risksof chronic health conditions in
older age diabetes, heartdisease, all these kinds of
things that can make people feelscared, afraid, nervous.
So to brush it off and be like,oh, it's not really that big of
a deal, it's not, I don't knowwhat's an even scarier thing

(20:20):
Like it's not multiple sclerosis, it's not cancer, it's not
diabetes that is not reallyacknowledging the impact that
it's having.
And I think if we don't fullyacknowledge the impact that PCOS
has on our lives and letourselves grieve it, then we

(20:43):
will continue to not make goodprogress on actually managing it
, because you can't live indenial of it and also improve
your symptoms and shout out tothose of you in denial because
your girl has been there for along, long time in a lot of
different ways.

(21:03):
So here's the deal.
Pcos is a grieving process thatyou have to go through.
What are the stages of grief?
There's denial.
Denial is like, I would say,pcos denial looks like well,
first of all.
It's denial that there's even aproblem and not even going to

(21:24):
the doctor to find out, like no,it's fine that I don't have a
period, whatever.
I certainly lived like that fora while.
I never had regular periods,ever, ever, ever.
But I never told anyone.
And then I remember in highschool being like man, I'm lucky
I have a period twice a year.
This is sweet.

(21:44):
All my friends are bleeding allthe time.
And still to this day, Iactually have had very, very
short periods of my life whereI've had monthly periods.
It's been a year here, a yearthere.
I'm only 35, so I didn't havethat many experiences to do that

(22:04):
and to this day I'm still likedang a period every month.
That's no fun, it really isn't.
I hated having my period,anyway.
So for a long time I lived inthis Dalululu land where I was
like, oh yeah, this is no bigdeal, like this is great.
And then it was like OK, maybethis isn't so great.

(22:29):
How is this going to impact mein the future, et cetera, et
cetera.
So denial is like denying thatthere's even an issue to begin
with, but then, once you'rediagnosed, denial is saying well
, I don't need to really changeanything, though I eat pretty
healthy already, like I'm fine.
The reality is, though, that ifyou're eating appropriately for

(22:50):
your chronic health condition,your symptoms are not going to
be to the point where you areseeking a diagnosis, like, just
honestly, how it is, like mostpeople with PCOS, if they're
managing it well, if they'reeating healthy for them, because
healthy for PCOS looksdifferent than other people's
version of healthy but if you'reeating healthy for your PCOS,

(23:13):
you're probably not going to bein the place where you're like
man, I'm not having periods, myfacial hair is out of control,
like I keep gaining weight, likewhat's the deal.
So the denial would be saying,well, everything I'm doing is
good enough or it's fine, likethere's nothing I can change
here.
I'm probably eating healthyenough, and some people really
do live like that, and you mayhave been there one time too.

(23:35):
Probably, if you're listeningto this podcast, you've gone
past that point, or maybe youalways went past that point, and
maybe it was more like well, Iknow something I'm doing is
wrong.
I just don't know what and Idon't know how to fix it and I
don't know what to do.
But that would be denial.
And I lived like that for I seeI was diagnosed in like 2010.
And it probably really wasn'tuntil gosh, I don't even know I

(24:01):
started trying to figure it outin 2012.
So there was a couple of yearsthere where I was just kind of
like this is my fate, like thissucks, I can't do anything about
it, like what a bummer, feelingsorry for myself, that kind of
stuff.
And then I was starting to belike OK, there's got to be
something I can do, and startedgetting into nutrition, but it

(24:22):
really wasn't for several moreyears until I actually figured
out what that should be.
I messed around a lot, tryingdifferent stuff, and not always
so successfully Anyway, denial.
Then there's bargaining, right,which bargaining is?
Like if I just lose this weight, then I'll be good, like I

(24:44):
won't have to think about thisanymore, I won't have to worry
about this anymore.
And a lot of us with PCOS getreally hyper-focused on our
weight and that's not always ourfault, because our health care
providers do that to us too.
But like this constant processof thinking well, if I was just
a little thinner, theneverything would be better.
The reality is that I've beenbigger and I've been thinner,

(25:11):
and I still have to live insidemy own brain, guys, and so do
you.
It's like that old thing whereyou look back at pictures of
yourself and you're like why wasI so mean to myself?
I was so cute and small andjust everything was just so
adorable about me.
And you're going to do thatagain five years from now, right
?

(25:32):
But the reality is like thebargaining piece is a lot of
sort of like well, okay, I'mgonna start exercising and
exercising a lot, and that'sgonna fix it, or I'm just gonna
change my diet, I'm not gonnaactually exercise, or I'm gonna

(25:54):
like just drink a bunch ofpropiarm protein shakes and lose
this weight, and theneverything will be fine.
It's like a lot of like tryingto take the easy way out,
essentially, or, you know, justtrying to kind of like ignore
the situation but also, like youknow, get somewhere.
The bargaining phase, I feellike, is like focusing on the

(26:15):
wrong stuff, not looking at thedeeper sort of connections to
your mental health or to traumaor to whatever, or root causes,
but just kind of being like,okay, what can I do to, like,
lose weight?
Let me do NutriSystem.
And again, I have doneNutriSystem so I can relate.
By the way, okay, I guess Iprobably shouldn't talk

(26:38):
specifically about brands, butyikes, I did that before my
wedding back in 2011.
That was nasty.
It was so nasty.
Oh my God, I can't believe Iever did that.
Anyway, chronic health is agrieving process.
This is probably true for otherchronic health conditions as
well.
Right, you get diagnosed withdiabetes.
I'm sure it's a very similarthing.
Get diagnosed with anautoimmune condition.

(26:59):
I know that's a similar thingbecause that's happened to a lot
of my clients.
But there's denial, there'sbargaining, there's the anger
phase.
A lot of the content on theinternet is aimed at the anger
phase.
Okay, so what I see, what I'venoticed and I think this is just

(27:21):
human nature is it's a lot morefun to be angry about something
than it is to accept somethingand actually take responsibility
for it.
I mean relatable, right?
We all do this in differentways.
I've certainly done this withPCOS.
I went through my phase where Iwas like this sucks, I did

(27:42):
nothing to deserve this.
None of this is my fault at all, why is this happening to me?
At the end of the day, thegenetics are not my fault, right
, there are some things that Iwas doing that certainly weren't
helping matters.
There were some things that Idid that I could have not done,

(28:03):
that may have impacted me.
There's just.
And taking responsibility forsomething doesn't necessarily
mean you're saying this is myfault.
It means this is myresponsibility.
It means maybe this wasn't myfault, but this is my reality
and I need to do something aboutit.
It's like when you have a childright, you go from theorizing

(28:29):
and thinking about this is whatI would be like as a mom.
This is the type of disciplineI'm going to use as a mom.
This is what I believe about, Idon't know, circumcision or
whatever.
So many things come up whenyou're having a little boy right
.
There's the theoretical aspectand then there's the element of

(28:52):
actually you are a mom.
They're asking you do you wantus to take him and get him
circumcised?
It's actually a weird example,but it's a good example.
It makes sense.
He's in the middle of Walmartand he's screaming and you're

(29:16):
like, okay, so authoritative orgentle parenting, how am I doing
this right now, in this moment?
What am I going to do here?
So there's theory, then there'sactuality, and I think that's
what taking responsibility means, and it's a lot easier for us

(29:37):
to not do that.
Who wants to take responsibilityfor something that you never
asked for in the first place?
I certainly don't, but it's thereality, right, and a lot of
the content that I see on theinternet that surrounds PCOS is
really kind of pushing thosebuttons of anger, those buttons

(29:57):
of not taking responsibility.
It's like stuff, like andyou've seen it, I'm sure I guess
it's like trying to berelatable, which is fair.
I mean, I think there does needto be more content out there
that is relatable and that makesus feel like we're not alone,
because something that PCOS candefinitely make us do is make us
feel alone.
But it'll be stuff like youeating your salad while your

(30:24):
friend eats this giant burgerand milkshake because you have
PCOS.
You know what I mean?
It's kind of like oh well,everybody else has it so good
and I have it so bad because Ihave PCOS, and so I can't do
anything about it and it doesn'tjust suck and everybody be
angry with me.
And I want to say this nowbecause I feel like I'm already

(30:51):
past that point in my grievingjourney, but that is part of the
grieving process, so there's astage for it and you have to be
in that stage.
When you're in that stage,right, and you have to be able
to say, oh, I'm just not goingto feel that, I'm just going to
go straight on to acceptance andto taking responsibility for
this issue, a lot of peoplebypass that anger stage because

(31:12):
in general, they maybe don'tlike to be angry, they like to
be people pleasers, they like togo with the flow.
It gets into tricky questions,philosophical questions with
their faith and things like thatthat they don't want to wrestle
with.
I mean, there's a lot of stuffthat goes on when you're
diagnosed with a chronic healthdisorder and you have to kind of
like, think these thingsthrough.

(31:32):
And a lot of people try tobypass the anger phase but then
it comes out in other waysbecause you are angry at your
core.
I mean I'm angry, you're angry.
We're all angry at our coreabout different things and it's
okay to be angry when you needto be angry, particularly about
this, because there is a lotabout PCOS that I think is worth

(31:54):
being angry about.
I mean, yeah, the fact that youhave to put so much more effort
than other people, the factthat your effort gets you like
half as far.
There's a lot of things to beangry about just the unfairness
of it all right, like especiallywhen you get into fertility
issues, if you deal withfertility issues with your PCOS.

(32:18):
I know I went through that andI was very angry during that
time because I ended up havingto use IVF to conceive my son
and I paid a lot of money forthat.
I think it was upwards of$20,000 and it could have been a
lot more.
Honestly, we got really luckybut it could have been a lot
more.
And I remember just feeling theunfairness of like nobody I

(32:42):
know has had to pay upwards of$20,000, $25,000 to have a child
.
And here I am saddled with debtto just conceive one without
even the guarantee that one willcome home.
So that can make you angry andit's fine that it makes you
angry and so I guess, going backto my previous comment about
content on the internet thatpushes those buttons, it kind of

(33:04):
annoys me now but maybe that'sbecause I'm through that phase
for the most part and it's maybegood for people who kind of
need that, to acknowledge that.
But I do feel like it is alsovery much a what is it, what do
they call it on Reddit ragefarming.

(33:25):
So they're trying to get youriled up, to get you emotionally
responsive, because when you'reemotionally responsive, you're
also more susceptible to salespitches, or not?
That everybody who does that islike trying to sell you
something.
I mean, at the end of the day,like anybody who's got an online
platform that's fairly large,they are trying to sell you

(33:47):
something, but what they'retrying to sell they may actually
believe in.
You know what I mean.
So, like myself, I sell, I tryto sell you guys my courses,
right, but I really believe inthose courses.
I put a lot of hard work andeffort into making them really
nice, really thorough and reallyhelpful.

(34:07):
So I believe in what I'mselling and so I don't feel that
there's any moral issue withtrying to sell them to you.
It's your choice whether youbuy them or not, but I am trying
to sell you something.
Or, like, if I recommend aprotein powder or a matcha that
I really like, like, yeah, Imake some money if you buy from
that company, but I only chooseto affiliate myself with

(34:32):
companies that I trust that Iuse myself Like you know, I have
ethical boundaries around thatfor myself so that I feel better
about it.
Because like I would feel reallyicky about it if I didn't and I
don't want to give myself theick.
But like there are noteverybody's like that, or some
people will say they're likethat and they're not actually
like that.
You know what I mean.
So be discerning, especially ifsomebody's trying to push your

(34:56):
anger buttons.
But anger is a phase that youhave to go through when you are
diagnosed with PCOS and that'sfine.
And then you get to what is it?
Depression, there's anger andthen there's depression.
Depression for me can look alot like the denial phase.

(35:18):
Right, because instead ofdeluding yourself and being like
, yeah, I don't have to changeanything, because like, there's
nothing that I can do, you knowyou can believe whatever you
want it You've got peopletelling you that there's nothing
that nutrition can do for PCOS.
I mean there's plenty of peoplesaying that.

(35:39):
So if you want to be delulueand believe that, like you
totally can, a lot of people do.
And depression is more likeacknowledging like yeah, I could
do something about it, but likeI just don't have the energy or
I just can't anymore.
I can't try anymore, I'mfatigued and burned out, I'm
tired, and that is a valid phasetoo.

(36:04):
So a lot, a lot, a lot.
I did a podcast fairly recentlyon health burnout.
But a lot of the people whoI've worked with go through this
phase while we're workingtogether.
And I think it's nice that theygo through it while we're
working together because I seeit as my responsibility as the
practitioner to really validatefor them that it's normal and

(36:27):
that it's okay and that like togive themselves some kindness,
because if you're just kind toyourself during those phases
they will end faster.
But if you deny them, if youdeny yourself the ability to
kind of get into that numbnessor to get into that like sort of
fatigue and depression aroundthe issue, then you I think you

(36:51):
burn yourself out more.
I think it lasts longer.
So I always remind peopleremember that health is a
journey and it's like a lifelongdeal.
So in the grand scheme ofthings, if you take a month off
from thinking about PCOS andjust eat whatever and give in to

(37:15):
that, it's not going to be theend of the world.
Like.
The real test is can you getback on the horse?
Can you keep going?
Can you forgive yourself foryour humanness, even when your
humanness pops up again andagain and again?
Because it will.
If you can forgive yourhumanness, then you will

(37:38):
eventually create moreconsistency with your habits.
It will happen, I swear to you.
It will happen and I know thatbecause it has happened for me.
It's happened for clients I'veworked with.
Everybody starts somewheredifferent.
Some people start way, way back.
You know they've never eaten avegetable in their life.
Like they live on fast food.

(37:59):
It takes that person a lot, lotlonger to build up the
consistency of eating a dailysalad.
You know what I mean.
Like you can't expect thatperson to go zero to a hundred
and for it to last.
Now some people like to go zeroto a hundred and try it out and
they like to see that change inthemselves.
And that's cool.
I think that's great.
If you're that type of person,then I mean I'm all for it.

(38:22):
In fact, that's often how I runmy practice with my clients.
It's like, okay, you're here,you paid all this money, like
let's do it.
If we're going to do it, let'sdo it.
And so some people are likethat.
But you can also take it slow,always acknowledge where you're
starting from and where you'vegotten to.

(38:43):
When I look back, I rememberbeing in college.
I think I've probably told thisstory before because it's one
of my favorite illustrativestories.
But when I was in college Iliterally could not eat
vegetables Like.
I mean I could maybe eatbroccoli if it had cheese on it,
but like raw vegetables it wasa no, particularly salads.

(39:03):
I hated the taste and textureof like cold raw vegetables,
lettuce stuff like that.
It really grossed me out.
I had a lot of sensory issueswith food and that's why I talk
about that so much, because Iwent through that myself and I
had a friend I always talk aboutthis friend who is my best
friend from college.
Her name's Margo Really lovelygal, but she grew up eating just

(39:31):
more of a like what I wouldconsider a normal balanced diet.
I remember going to stay at herhouse.
She lived in Tulsa and I wentto stay with her house once for
the weekend and her mom broughthome muffins from the local
bakery but we also hadvegetables with our food.

(39:51):
She like I remember they took,they went.
They were members of like acountry club, so we went to eat
lunch there after church one dayand they all ordered salads and
I was like I don't want a salad, I want a burger.
So I ordered a burger and fries.
It was good too.
I still remember that.
But, like you know, I felt Iremember just like watching them

(40:13):
make these like choices that Iwas just kind of like really
Like you're just doing that,like are you guys trying to lose
weight or what's the deal?
But that was just they wereused to eating a normal balanced
diet that had a little bit ofeverything right.
So they were kind of feeling asalad, and sometimes I'm like
that now too.
But back then I never wouldhave.

(40:35):
No, you couldn't have got metoo.
I hated the taste and texture.
It grossed me out and made megag anyway.
So I remember being veryinspired by Margot and her
family and I wanted to be likethat too, and so I said you know
what?
I am 20 years old, 21 years old.
I forget how old I was.
I'm going to have to teachmyself to like vegetables.

(40:55):
So I started by getting acrouton, wrapping it in one
spinach leaf, because I like tospinach more than I liked
lettuce.
Wrapping it in one spinach leaf, dipping it in honey, mustard
and eating that, and I just didthat Like and that was my salad.
And yeah, was it the healthiestthing in the world?
No, obviously I was eating alot of croutons, but that's what
helped me get used to the tasteand texture of those foods.

(41:19):
Same thing with like cheese onbroccoli.
Like cheese was actually reallyhelpful for me to like broccoli
as a vegetable and as aconsequence of that, broccoli
has been one of my favoritevegetables for a long time and I
crave broccoli a lot more thanI crave other things, because it
was easier for me to eat,because I was used to eating it
with cheese.

(41:40):
And you know, I may have done apodcast on like how to make
yourself like vegetables.
So I've talked about all thosetips, so I won't go into it now.
But there's things you can dothere, but giving yourself the
time and the space to letyourself make those changes, to
be human, to struggle with them.

(42:02):
You know, after I ate thecroutons, did I go immediately
into starting to eat salads andthen, from there, you know, go
into actually craving salads?
No, that took years.
That took a decade.
I think it wasn't until likemaybe a few years ago that I
actually started to crave salad.

(42:22):
Sometimes I was already anutritionist, but I was very
much like, oh, I just like myvegetables cooked.
You know what I mean.
So it took, it took time, butmaybe it would have gone faster
if I had allowed myself to be alittle bit more human too.
I do think back on that because,like I didn't do that process
perfectly by any means, Iguilted myself and beat myself

(42:44):
up the whole way there, which issad looking back on it.
But you don't have to do that.
Learn from my mistakes.
Don't do that to yourself.
Let yourself be a person likemy God.
We're all just like trying to,you know.
We're just trying to make endsmeet.
Like, look at the world, thestate of the world that we're in
right now.
How can you worry about beinghuman when you know you can't

(43:05):
even afford I don't know yourstandard, your like basic living
expenses, like I get it, youknow.
So let yourself have thosetimes when it overwhelms you.
That's part of the grievingprocess.
And then the other part of thegrieving process is, like we
talked about before, coming toacceptance, and acceptance, like
I said, is takingresponsibility for the, for the

(43:27):
issue.
Like we're here now this is areality, like we can't change it
.
So we know we have this and nowwe look for solutions and we
implement the solutions, and soI think that's a really good
thing and, yeah, that's the wayto do it.
So that, I think, is that, inmy opinion, is the major driver

(43:50):
of mental health issues in PCOSis like being in that grieving
process, Because most of thosestages have an associated mood
change right, so that, that, Ithink, is a big piece of it.
Another big piece of it from themental health side is trauma.
Like those with PCOS are morelikely to have childhood trauma,

(44:11):
have higher what we call ACEscores or adverse childhood
event scores.
A lot of us are dealing withlike some stuff from being kids
and it could be things as simpleas like maybe you were bullied,
really bad.
I was bullied in middle school.
You know I didn't have a lot offriends.
I have some really traumaticexperiences from back then, and

(44:32):
there's other things too.
You know that that I won't getinto, but we, a lot of us, carry
things like that that reallyimpacts the way that we see
ourselves and the way that wecarry ourselves and and impact
our mental health, and they'rerelated to our PCOS for sure,
because they impact the way thatour bodies handle stress.
So we know that we have morelike cortisol adrenal issues in

(44:55):
PCOS and that's partiallybecause when you've been
traumatized your body is more onguard against against stress.
So you know what would be justlike a regular email for one
person of their boss being like,hey, can we talk later.

(45:18):
For somebody who's got liketrauma and anxiety is going to
be like, oh my God, I'm gettingfired, you know.
And so it impacts you more,like your body's more like ready
to fight or flight or fleetright, and that a lifetime of
that built up it contributes toPCOS symptoms.
It also contributes to mentalhealth symptoms and they're
definitely connected.

(45:40):
Another thing that's going on,maybe physically, that that I
don't think it's talked aboutenough, is the insulin
connection and exhaustion.
So people don't often realizethat if your blood sugar is out
of balance, it's going too high,it's going too low, it makes
you really tired.
So one of the ways that I cantell a client is dealing with

(46:02):
particularly high blood sugarafter meals and that their meals
are not aligned for them isthat they get really tired after
their meals.
So if you eat lunch.
It happens a lot at lunch.
But people go out to lunch orthey bring lunch for the office
and they've been kind of sittingall day so they haven't been
like doing a ton of activity.
You eat lunch and then you feelreally sleepy and you want to

(46:23):
take a nap.
It could be because your bloodsugar is high, particularly if
it's paired with being verythirsty.
Those are both symptoms of highblood sugar.
And then add another thing toit if you get like to where you
really need a snack, like twohours later, or you feel that
you are going to pass out oryou're weak or you're shaky or

(46:47):
whatever, that's a symptom oflow blood sugar.
And that can happen when you'vegot PCOS and insulin resistance.
When your meals are bumpingyour blood sugar too high and
then you've got so much insulinin your system it's bringing
your blood sugar too low.
They call it reactivehypoglycemia.
This is common in PCOS, very,very, very common, and I see it

(47:07):
a ton, especially in those whodon't actually have an insulin
resistance, like lab.
They've never had a blood workthat says like, oh, you've got
insulin resistance, because alot of the blood work that we do
for it is not really revealingof like early stage insulin
resistance.
But anyway, another topic foranother time.
Blood sugar swings and highinsulin levels can make you

(47:30):
exhausted, absolutely exhausted.
So if you are tired all thetime or you notice that, like
when you are eating well you'renot tired all the time, and when
you're not eating well you aretired all the time, your blood
sugar is probably playing a rolein that.
Now, the way this connects backto mental health is that for a
lot of people, myself included,the main manifestation of

(47:51):
depression symptoms is actuallyexhaustion.
So I was diagnosed withdepression a couple years ago
and it was after my hysterectomy.
So a lot of you know that I hadcancer endometrial cancer when I
was younger and went through alot of stuff with that, like

(48:13):
some ups and downs and things Iwas able to like get I guess I'm
cured is like the wrong wordbut we were able to get under
control to the point where wecould preserve my fertility and
I really wanted to have a child.
I've always wanted to have achild and so my husband and I
went through IVF, had our son,but it was a rough few years

(48:38):
there because we were goingthrough the infertility process.
That was really difficultemotionally.
Then we go through IVF, we getpregnant and my whole pregnancy
was just absolutely miserable.
I had something called asubchorionic hemorrhage, which
is like a bruise that breaksopen and re-bleeds in the

(49:02):
uterine lining.
So this meant that while I'mpregnant I'm also having these
random bouts of like reallyheavy bleeding, and if you know
anything about pregnancy, you'renot supposed to bleed, so you
think you're having amiscarriage when you're bleeding
like that.
So it was horrific, scary, andbecause it seemed to be in like

(49:24):
a weird place where if Istretched too much it would
reopen it, I wasn't able tocontinue with much exercise.
I was put on bed rest.
I was also put on pelvic rest,which pelvic rest means you
can't have any into coas and youalso can't have any orgasms.
So there goes your stressrelief, right.

(49:48):
It was a really, really hardpregnancy.
I felt terrible the whole time,probably because I was so
sedentary, my blood sugar wasgetting out of control, my blood
pressure was getting high,towards the end High-ish.
I didn't have preclamps oranything, but I was starting to
get issues.
I gained probably.
I think I gained like 45 poundsor something, and then at 30

(50:09):
weeks I went into early labor,preterm labor, and I had my son
at 30 weeks and five days.
So then I had a preemie and soI went straight from like this
miserable pregnancy and thislike infertility experience to
having a preemie at the hospitalfor a month.

(50:29):
He was there for I think wecounted out like 37 days, right,
which felt like forever.
Very scary, obviously, becausehe was so small when he was born
.
He was like three pounds andsuddenly I'm like thrust into
that process and having to likeall my energy and focus was

(50:50):
changed to being on that, so Inever really got to grieve the
other stuff.
And then, when my son was aboutnine months old, I decided to go
back in for a checkup that Ihad been putting off.
I was so, so concerned withbeing able to try to provide
milk for my son because he was apreemie and the his doctors

(51:13):
were really like pushing me tolike try to pump and produce as
much as I could, because breastmilk is very helpful for
preemies, and I just could notlike my supply just wasn't there
.
I couldn't, no matter how muchI tried, and I was pumping like
12 times a day.
I mean I was pumping like everytwo hours.
I was doing everything that Icould and I just I never was

(51:39):
able to make more than fiveounces of breast milk in a day,
and that was like later, afterwe were back from the hospital,
all that stuff.
So I never was able to fullyfeed him myself.
That really, really hurt mementally and emotionally,
especially when all thosehormones were raging.
So I kind of stopped taking careof myself during that time and

(52:02):
didn't go back on my medicationthat I needed to be on in order
to keep my endometrial lining inthe right place.
So I go back to my doctorfinally, because I'm like it's
been nine months, like I shouldprobably get checked out and you
know, I was thinking maybe Imight need a little higher dose
or something, and my doctor wasvery concerned about how things

(52:24):
looked, referred me to myoncologist.
The oncologist, you know,looking back, was a little bit
snip happy.
He liked to do robotic surgeryand he really pushed in on me.
I probably shouldn't havelistened.
I should have gotten a secondopinion.
But anyway, from a Friday to aMonday I was diagnosed with what

(52:50):
they assumed was the cancer hadkind of come back and on that
Monday I had a totalhysterectomy.
They removed my ovaries.
They removed my cervix, theyremoved my uterus, like it was a
major surgery.
And then sorry, I'm giving youguys my sob story.
But then at the hospital, asI'm supposed to be recovering

(53:12):
from this surgery, that's likesupposed to be like you have a
surgery, you go home the sameday.
I'm not getting better.
It's also COVID, so I'm alone.
They won't allow anybody intomy room because this was like
July of 2020.
And yeah, I'm not getting anybetter.
They finally realized I'mbleeding internally.

(53:35):
I guess one of my lymph nodeswas like that.
He had like biopsied, hadn'tclosed or had reopened or
something.
I still, to this day, don't knowexactly what happened, but I
was bleeding into my abdomen andso I was getting very, very
anemic.
I stopped being able, like myvision started going out, I
couldn't see anymore.
Of course, I was extremelytired, like scared.

(53:59):
Yeah, it was, it was rough, andso then I had to go and have
another surgery to get thatfixed.
And you know, irony of allironies, the American healthcare
system I had to pay for thatsecond surgery, which is just
still to this day, bothers me.
I feel like that should.
I feel like that one shouldhave been a freebie, anyway.

(54:24):
So, gosh, where was I?
Why am I telling you this?
I think I'm telling you thisbecause I have been through a
lot of stuff and it's impactedmy body in a lot of ways.
So trauma, for sure, trauma,right, medical trauma and all

(54:47):
kinds of other traumas could beassociated with all that that I
went through.
But after my hysterectomy I wasin menopause, right.
So I went through what's calledsurgical menopause and the
change in my hormones and Ithink the combination of just
like needing to like actuallygrieve a lot of stuff was so

(55:07):
hard on me that I really I justdidn't recover from it.
And it was at that point that,probably about a year later,
that I just realized you knowwhat I just I like I need some
help.
At the same time, I'm likebuilding my business, I'm like
building my online presence, I'mlike putting myself out there

(55:27):
and, you know, dealing withreally looking back, it was a
lot that I was going through andkind of putting myself through
out of fear and all this, allkinds of stuff.
But anyway, I ended up gettingon bupropion.
Well, butrin I have nevershared this publicly that I'm on

(55:51):
psychotropic medication,because I used to be one of
those people.
That was like, oh, peopleshouldn't be on those meds, they
should just take care of theirdiet.
Then it happened to me and Irealized, oh wow, today,
sometimes a little bit ofsupport and help can really

(56:11):
really turn things around.
Because after I got on thatmedication that I finally got
some of my energy back.
The way that my depressionmanifested was just pure
exhaustion.
I was just so tired I couldhardly get out of bed.
I could basically just do whatI needed to do to take care of
my child and my work, because Iwas very focused on my work.

(56:35):
I could basically just do thatand then I was in bed.
Obviously, things were fallingby the wayside with my personal
health.
I was so, so, so tired.
I can't even describe it to you.
I'm sure some of you have feltthis but just that exhaustion
that just makes you moreexhausted.

(56:56):
You know what I mean.
You're tired and then you restand you feel more tired.
What was that?
It was hormone changes, it wasadrenal fatigue, it was grief,
it was a lot of things all atonce.
I really struggled and theusual tools, the usual things

(57:19):
that I had done beforesupplements, nutrition, all that
just weren't enough.
Yeah, I started takingmedications and I'm so glad I
did and I'm still on them.
I am happy with that and I'mnot changing that because they
helped me a lot.

(57:43):
I wanted to share that with youbecause I guess I just wanted to
remind you that, even though Iwork in functional nutrition,
that field can get a bad rap forbeing completely alternative or
way on the holistic side.
It's really not about that.
Conventional medicine is aboutusing the best of what we've got

(58:03):
as humans as healers.
Conventional medicine, evenpsychotropic medication, is some
of the tools that we've createdas humans to help.
It's using the best of whatwe've got on both sides to help
us.
I'm practicing what I preachthere by doing both.
I'm a nutritionist.

(58:25):
Obviously I try to eat right.
I take certain supplements thatare really helpful for
depression, for me and anxiety,but I also take some
prescription stuff and I like itthat way.
That's what's working for me, alot of the stuff that we've
talked about so far.
I know this podcast is going tobe a real long one, but a lot

(58:49):
of that stuff is what I thinkcontributes to mental health
issues in PCOS.
One of the other things that Ididn't discuss yet is the
otherness of PCOS, which isessentially the concept that you
feel different when you havePCOS because your body doesn't
work the same way as otherpeople's.
Maybe you have androgenicsymptoms, so you've got hair

(59:15):
loss or you've got facial hairor you've got the weight issue
that a lot of us deal with.
I know for myself I always feltdifferent from my friends.
I just never really felt fullylike a woman, comparatively,
because I didn't have some ofthe stuff that they had.
I also had some stuff that theydidn't have, like facial hair.

(59:37):
I just never really felt wholein that sense.
That otherness was bred a lotof anxiety For me.
My life was mostly anxietyrelated to PCOS and stuff.
After the hysterectomy, theanxiety left because I started

(01:00:00):
going to therapy and that waswonderful and very healing.
The anxiety left and then thefatigue and depression took its
place.
Fun types, what we're gettingthere.
We're making progress.
Let's talk about progress.
What helps?
What can we do?
What are some solutions?
So, number one, from thenutrition side.

(01:00:23):
Obviously there are somenutritional things we can do
Manage our blood sugar.
Go listen to some of mypodcasts about insulin
resistance and methods formanaging that.
That's going to give you thebest information you can get
Either that or.
I mentioned some of my courses.
I think PCOS Foundations is areally, really good place to
start for getting a handle on abalanced, blood sugar friendly

(01:00:44):
diet.
Eating your blood sugar does 80out of 100 things.
It practically does everythingthat you would want it to do.
It's pretty simple to do.
It's really just about makingsure that you're eating enough
protein and that you're doingthat with every meal and that
you're not overwhelming yourbody with too much starch, that
you're eating healthy fats, thatyou're eating fiber.

(01:01:07):
It sounds like a lot of things,but the reality of how it
actually looks on a plate is notthat complicated.
There may be a podcast aboutthe PCOS plate as well.
Do that first, because thatwill help with your energy.
Your energy is key because youneed to have energy in order to
be able to actually function anddo the rest of the stuff that

(01:01:27):
needs to be done.
I would put a lot of energyinto nutrition first.
On the nutrition side as well,there's supplementation that can
be helpful.
I find that Omega-3 fatty acidsso fish oils really really key
for brain health, and thatincludes mental health.
If you want to look in the shownotes, I will link to my

(01:01:51):
favorite of these favoritebrands I always link to.
I usually link to Thorn, whichis a therapeutic quality brand.
Their products are reallyreally good, really potent as
well, and potency matters a lotif you're going to be paying for
a supplement.
I highly recommend them.
I will link them below if youwant to try them out.

(01:02:13):
Vitamin D is another one.
This is particularly key if youfind that you are more
depressed or anxious in thewinter time or when there's not
enough sun.
I live in South Texas so I amvery, very addicted to sunlight.
Even when it's summertime butit's a rainy week, I start
getting really down because I'mnot seeing the sun.

(01:02:34):
Some of us are like that.
Vitamin D is the pill form ofsunshine.
Maybe if you have a vitamin Ddeficiency which I would highly,
highly recommend getting testedfor because it's very common in
PCOS and the US population atlarge If you have a vitamin D
deficiency, correcting thatdeficiency can feel like the

(01:02:55):
lights are turning back on.
It literally feels like the suncame out.
It's craziness.
I remember that for myself whenI was first getting into
supplements, some of the firstthings I did was vitamin D and
magnesium, which is another one.
That's key.
When I started taking both ofthose and the difference it made
in my energy and my anxiety wascrazy different.

(01:03:16):
Highly highly recommend both ofthose.
Definitely get your vitamin Dtested Then B vitamins can also
help a lot.
Those of us with PCOS tend tomore commonly have something
called the MTHFR gene mutation,which makes it more difficult
for us to process B vitamins.
There are different severitiesof this mutation.

(01:03:37):
Some peoples is pretty mild,but some of us have it more
severe.
If you do, it may really beimpacting your mood.
I'd highly recommend I thinkit's pretty safe to just get on
a good quality prenatal vitaminthat has methylated B vitamins.
I tend to recommend that forPCOS since it doesn't hurt.
It helps.

(01:04:03):
It's like a prenatal.
The only difference between aprenatal and a regular
multivitamin is iron, sometimescholine, which are both great.
Highly recommend those from thenutrition side.
From the mental health side,there is some research that
shows that cognitive behavioraltherapy is very effective for

(01:04:26):
PCOS.
If you have a therapist thatcan do CBT I really love a
therapist that's trauma informed, because not all CBT therapists
are A therapist that's traumainformed.
A therapist that does EMDR,which is eye movement,
desensitization and reprocessing, which is a way of helping your

(01:04:49):
brain to process traumaticmemories that are stuck in the
body.
That's a real thing, veryevidence-based.
Go look it up on PubMed if youwant to.
I know it sounds hokey, butit's a real thing.
And cognitive behavioraltherapy If they can do all of
those things and they're good atall of those things, that's the
gold mind.
My therapist I love her.

(01:05:09):
She does all those things.
She's fantastic.
I will pay, I will give her mykidney.
Seriously, I love her so much.
Honestly, biggest difference inmy anxiety for sure has come
from that work.
Depression that's a little bitdifferent, I think, because for
me there's a lot of physicalcomponent to that, but for my

(01:05:34):
anxiety, totally, totallydifferent with those things, and
same thing for a lot of myclients too.
The other thing to keep in mindis that there is some good
research connecting mindfulnessand gratitude work with, and
stress reduction with, reducedmental health issues.
So if you've never triedmindfulness, I mean there are

(01:05:57):
lots of ways to dip your toe inthe water there.
Meditations are usually a goodplace to start.
The Calm app is nice, but evenjust committing to doing one
15-minute little meditationexercise a day, it can really
make a big difference in yourmood, particularly if you do it
in the morning.
If you have trouble sleeping,you could also do it at night,

(01:06:20):
but I think doing it in themorning is really nice, even
something like listening to birdsounds in the morning.
They've found that that helpspeople feel calmer and happier.
So lately I've been listeningto bird sounds in the morning
and thank God it's becomingspring so there's actual birds
now that I can listen to.
But these things all can play arole and they're just little

(01:06:42):
things.
Playing bird sounds in themorning it's not hard.
You can even get one of thosehatch alarm clocks and it'll do
it automatically for you.
So that's an easy thing.
But also just simple 15-minuteguided meditations.
If you get something like theCalm app, you do have to pay for
that, but it is very convenient.
It's all in one place, whereasyou could go on YouTube and find

(01:07:04):
free ones.
But I don't know.
Sometimes I struggle becauseI'm like I don't like this
person's voice or I'm very picky, so you do you.
But guided meditations is agood place to start.
You can also make your ownmeditation practice.
I do different things.
If I get bored, I'll startdoing this something different.
So sometimes I do an activemeditation where it'll be maybe

(01:07:28):
stretching or yoga based.
Sometimes I'll do passivemeditations where I'm just
sitting and just closing my eyesand clearing my mind or trying
to clear my mind.
Sometimes I'll do guided stuffand sometimes meditation for me
just looks like quietly drinkingmy matcha while looking at the

(01:07:50):
window and daydreaming.
That can be meditation too.
There's just those kinds ofthings set us up.
Another thing that we can strivefor is something called low
dopamine mornings.
There's this concept that if weburn out our dopamine first
thing in the morning by likebeing on our phones and
different things, then we'll bemore depressed throughout the

(01:08:13):
rest of the day.
So low dopamine mornings is acool concept.
I've done it some and it ishelpful.
It's hard to do, I'll be honest, because I don't get enough
alone time.
So sometimes in the morning Ijust want to watch TikTok and I
know, I know.
But when I have done it it doeshelp with improving mental

(01:08:36):
health because it just kind ofsets you up for a little bit
more presence and calmnessthroughout the day.
I think sometimes if you startyour day on social media, it's
almost like you're outside yourbody.
You're not in your own life.
You're in the internet for therest of the day.
I don't know how to describewhat I'm saying, but hopefully

(01:08:56):
you get it.
It's a little more difficult tocome down to earth and to be
happy with the simple things.
There's something to be saidfor making a matcha in the
morning, for cooking a mealwithout distractions and TV and
all these different things goingon.
It's the pleasures of life, thepleasures of the moment.

(01:09:19):
They can be difficult toperceive if you are burning your
dopamine out by constantlywatching stuff.
So if you can let yourself notdo that in the morning, at least
it does help set you up for therest of the day and it helps
with sleep.
So just some thoughts, somedifferent things that you can do
.
There are obviously a lot ofother things.

(01:09:40):
I know one of the biggest thingsfor my personal depression has
been exercise.
I have really really increasedmy exercise since dealing with
all of this and probably morethan most things, that has made
a huge difference.
Just some form of exercise.

(01:10:03):
So right now I'm doing dance, Isalsa dance and I do bachata
and I go to dance like fourtimes a week, sometimes more.
If there's a social, let mecook, because I'm not sure how
long I can keep up that sort ofpace.

(01:10:23):
But I've always loved music andI love dance and I love the
connection and I love the peopleand so for me it's a really,
really fulfilling experiencethat really, really gives me a
lot of good endorphins and it'sgreat for my blood sugar.
The key is to not get burned outon things, and I tend to do
that when I get excited aboutstuff.
But we're trying not to.

(01:10:43):
But I've also done I did poledancing for a long time pole
fitness, which I think isfantastic exercise for PCOS.
I think it's really great,especially if you struggle with
your body and feelingcomfortable in your body.
So the piece of advice I alwayslike to give about exercise is
really think outside the box.

(01:11:04):
Everybody gets so caught upwith just going to the gym and
that's so boring.
If you like that, it's cool,because some people like to just
escape go get on the treadmillor whatever and listen to their
music or whatever, and that'sfine if that's what you like.
But for me it's never beenmotivating enough to keep up
with and I've found that I keepup much, much better, that I
actually enjoy physical activityif it's something fun.

(01:11:25):
So pole fitness for me.
I like stuff that has levels soyou can get better and better
and you have guideposts on howgood you're getting.
Because I like to win, I liketo succeed.
And then I like stuff that'sconnection with other people and
I like stuff that's connectedto music.
So different forms of dancehave always been fun for me to

(01:11:48):
do.
I used to do Zumba back in theday, so that's a great workout.
You need some strength trainingin your PCOS lifestyle, for
sure, but if you're not doingsomething fun with your exercise
, if you're not doing somethingthat you really enjoy, think
about trying some differentstuff, because you're more

(01:12:09):
likely to stick with it and it'smore likely to help with your
mood if you actually lookforward to doing it or you know
that once you're doing it it'sso fun you're going to feel
better.
After Some nights I don't feellike going to dance, but I know
that I always have so much funat dance and then, as soon as I
get there, I'm like oh yeah,this is why I like going.
So, anyway, those are just someof my thoughts for you.

(01:12:30):
I hope this podcast has beenhelpful.
I know it was a long one, soI'm going to try not to make
them all this long, but I justhad a lot I wanted to say today.
Thank you for listening.
If you liked this podcast.
We could really use somereviews on Apple Podcasts, so if
you get a chance, you can findthe link for that in the show
notes.
I really, really wouldappreciate it, and just let me

(01:12:55):
know what you guys like, whatyou want to hear more of, and I
will see you soon.
Take care everyone.