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In today's episode, we're exploring the intricate connections between pelvic floor health and PCOS- from the adrenal and nervous system/stress hormone connections, to sexual health to medical trauma, posture, and pain.
You might think the pelvic floor health has little to do with your health or your PCOS- this podcast may change your mind. I'll share my own personal insights along with evidence based information so you can see the real world impact of good pelvic floor therapy. I've become convinced- this is the missing link for adrenal health in so many of us with PCOS.
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Holly from Lotus Rehab guides us through the nuances of pelvic floor health. We unravel the mysterious ways these hidden muscles impact everything from our nervous system to sexual function and core stability. This isn't your average health talk; we're shattering myths and opening doors to conversations that are long overdue. Whether you're well-versed or new to the concept of pelvic floor vitality, Holly's insights promise a fresh perspective on maintaining and enhancing your body's support system.
This discussion with Holly illuminates just how important it is to recognize and engage our pelvic muscles, and the transformative power this awareness can have on conditions like incontinence and pain during sex. We share personal experiences and professional insights, affirming that understanding your body's internal landscape is not just about fixing problems—it's about elevating your quality of life. We connect seemingly unrelated ailments to pelvic health, breaking down the complexities of the body’s interconnectedness and advocating for integrative healthcare approaches.
Find Holly at www.lotusrehab.com or
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to an Amber a day.
I'm your host, amber Fisher,and today I have a great friend,
a very special guest, afabulous professional.
I have Holly from Lotus Rehab.
Holly, tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you, amber man.
It is so wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm so excited you're here, Guys, seriously, Holly.
So I see Holly as a patient andjust over the years we've
become really, you know, tightand I just you guys are going to
love her.
She's fantastic.
So, anyway, hopefully I don'tmake her too nervous.
But okay, Introduce yourself,Holly.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yes, so I am a pelvic floor physical therapist.
I've been doing public healthfor about eight years now and
I'm just really, reallypassionate about women's
healthcare and pelvic health inparticular.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So I literally never met somebody more passionate
about their niche than Holly.
Somebody more passionate abouttheir niche than Holly, no joke.
She has taught me so much aboutthe connection between pelvic
floor and the nervous system,sexual health and physical
health, anatomy and physiology.
(01:16):
There are some crazy musclesdown there that I didn't even
know existed, and we're going totry to get into as much great
stuff as we can today.
I'm so excited for you guys tohear her perspective on
different things.
This is a PCOS podcast, so wewill try to bring it back to
PCOS a few times, but can youtell us, I guess briefly, why is
(01:37):
the pelvic floor important?
Is it just about being able topee?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's right.
Why is the pelvic floorimportant?
Oh my gosh, the pelvic floor.
I feel like it's become such abuzzword lately, which is really
wonderful.
I feel like awareness hasspread so much about it.
But the pelvic floor plays sucha role, like you said, in our
nervous system.
Um, things that I often see inmy practice sexual health and
(02:07):
wellness, pain, exercise andstability, back stability, core
stability I mean the pelvicfloor.
I feel like it really is thefoundation for so many pieces of
our health and of our wellness,so many pieces of our health
(02:29):
and of our wellness.
And you know, my my hope and mywish is that everybody has an
opportunity to see a pelvichealth specialist and be able to
really get individualized carefor what's going on with your
pelvic floor.
Because you know, kind of fromthat standpoint to, how often do
people hear like just do Kegels.
Or you know, kind of from thatstandpoint too, how often do
people hear like just do Kegels.
Or you know why see a pelvicfloor therapist when you can
(02:51):
just do Kegels at home or buysome Kegel weights.
And I think that's one of themost frustrating pieces for me,
because I have my doctorate inphysical therapy and I've
dedicated my life to really likelearning and understanding
pelvic health and how it's, howit's incorporated in our body,
and it's so much more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh my gosh, it is.
And I always dismissed pelvicfloor therapy as something Well
I I guess I had, I had a lot ofmisconceptions about it.
I just thought it was for, youknow, after you have a baby and
everything's loose down thereand you know you can't sneeze
without pee.
That's just what I thought itwas.
And so, yeah, key goals, allthat kind of stuff, and for me I
thought I don't know TMI guys,but I was like I don't have any
(03:34):
problem with that, like, ifanything, I everything's tight
and fine down there.
But I was having a lot of painafter my hysterectomy.
There were a lot of things thatwere kind of coming up
pain-wise, and so my doctorrecommended that I go see a
pelvic floor therapist.
I asked around friends.
I had a friend that saw Hollyalready, so I got in there and
(03:59):
what we discovered?
Well, much was discovered overthe months, but one of the first
things I remember being really,really impressed by was the
fact that your pelvic floorcannot just be too loose but it
can also be too tight.
And so for me I had a lot ofhip issues and things because
(04:21):
internal hip rotators, myobturator internus guys, which I
learned because of Holly andher anatomy models, but those
muscles were very, very tight onme and so for a long time we've
been working on that and we'vebeen able to kind of loosen
those muscles and it has really,I mean, just completely changed
(04:44):
so much for me.
But the thing that I found themost interesting was how much
more relaxed I was and how Icould just feel my cortisol
reducing from the effect ofloosening up all of those
muscles and I never in a millionyears would have thought like
pelvic floor therapy could havehelped with my adrenal
(05:06):
dysfunction, but like itabsolutely did.
Can you tell us why?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
why did that?
Oh my gosh.
Yes, well, the pelvic floor isso connected to the autonomic
nervous system, um, sympatheticsystem, fight, flight, freeze,
parasympathetic, rest and digest.
And if you think about it, whenthey if you're watching a scary
movie, for instance, or there'sa bear right, your pelvic floor
muscles are going to be moretense and contracted versus if
(05:34):
you're in a more relaxed state,your pelvic floor muscles are
going to be more relaxed.
And so that's where I find thatoften, if somebody does have
tension or increased tone intheir pelvic floor muscles, when
we release and relax thosemuscles, learn how to link them,
those muscles many times thatwill connect with increased
(05:54):
overall relaxation in your body.
The pelvic floor muscles arealso a diaphragm that are
connected to your breathingdiaphragm or your respiratory
diaphragm.
So how many times do I seepeople who are counselors or
teaching diaphragmatic breathing, but nobody's talking about how
the pelvic floor is connectedinto that breath?
(06:16):
And so then you may not bemaximizing your diaphragmatic
breathing If that's somethingthat you're working on, if
you're not getting that breathall the way down into your
pelvic floor muscles.
So we want those muscles to beflexible as well as strong,
right Like strength.
Yes, that's a piece of it.
That's why I think people talkabout, you know, doing Kegels in
(06:39):
general, but they need to beflexible and they need to be
strong, and I think that's wherehaving an individualized
assessment on what is going onwith your muscles, what is going
on in your body, and then fromthere, coming up with an
individualized treatment planthat's going to include
lengthening relaxation of thosemuscles, if that's what you need
(07:01):
, or strengthening stability,coordination, if that's what you
need, and, yeah, coordination,if that's what you need.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, I love that and that was something that I was
really impressed with in yourapproach, because I realized
over time that my pelvic floortightness was connected to so
many other things in my bodypostural issues that I had been
trying to correct for years, andeven down to like we're always
talking about I hold my toesreally tight.
(07:27):
I'm like my shoes and your toesare clenched because you're
clenching your pelvic floor.
And the thing that I thought wasreally also interesting about
it too, is that a lot of timeswhen we talk about breath work
or we talk about even thingslike yoga or muscle relaxation,
it's kind of like there's amental element to it of like,
okay, well, just like just relaxyour muscles, right, but the
(07:51):
internal, like pelvic flurrymuscles, I can't consciously
like relax those or I couldn'tat least early on, because I
wasn't connected to like whatthey felt like in my body.
I mean, there's like no stretchthat really gets the obturator
internus.
You know, I mean I could bewrong there, correct me if I'm
wrong, but like I found itreally difficult.
(08:13):
It was like it took a lot ofthe pressure off of me once I
realized like, okay, this is notlike something that I'm just
like doing wrong, it's just mybody naturally responding to,
you know, different things overthe years, like, for example,
all of the medical trauma that Iwent through over the years
with having, you know, having alot of biopsies and surgeries
(08:35):
and things like that, your body,that, even though you're asleep
, all those things are happening, they're still happening to
your body and your bodyremembers.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh yeah, well, and if you have a history of pain with
sex or painful pelvic exams atthe gynecologist, if you're
repeatedly having those painfulexperiences, your body is going
to naturally guard and protectthat area.
And so that's where to reallygetting down to the root of what
is causing your symptoms,addressing that and then also
(09:06):
addressing the pelvic floormuscles so that you're not
having those painful experiences, so that you're not feeling
like you have to guard andprotect that area, and you can
get those muscles to be moreflexible, mobile, relaxed, and
so, yeah, I mean your body'sgoing to hold on to those things
.
What's that book?
The body?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
keeps the score right , exactly because we we went
through a time working togetherwhere we had to take away like a
lot of things that were just,you know, part of life, that I
was just dealing with the painbecause you know, repeated sort
of memory of like this oh thisis a painful experience clench
up and I felt so like it was allmy fault because I couldn't
(09:48):
just relax, like why couldn't Ijust breathe through it and make
my muscles relax?
But it's that unconsciousnessthat's happening.
And the cool side effect ofcorrecting all of that and
actually having more positiveexperiences and like slowly
building up the experiences sothat they're not painful anymore
, was that my adrenal systemtotally changed.
(10:13):
I stopped being so tense in allareas of my life.
I was dealing with some somepretty major cortisol stuff and
just working on the pelvic floorlike kind of fixed a lot of
that was really crazy, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And that's not uncommon.
I hear that all the time and Ithink we don't realize how much
the pelvic floor muscles areinterconnected in our entire
body.
Even so, the sacrum like whenwe talk about the pelvis right,
the bottom portion of the pelvisor the sacrum in the back
tailbone area that's a hugehouse for your sympathetic
(10:51):
ganglia.
So a lot of that sympatheticsystem lives there, and so when
we learn to relax those muscles,when we dry needle that space,
I find we can have an impactwhere we actually decrease that
sympathetic system and increasethe parasympathetic systems.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
We talk a lot, of course, in nutrition about food
and diet and all that when itcomes to PCOS, right, but we
know that with PCOS, one of themain root cause issues that a
lot of us are dealing with isadrenal dysfunction and
overactive, you know, nervoussystem responses, and the one
downside of being in nutritionis that for me, I haven't found
(11:30):
very many nutritionrecommendations that actually
work very well on that.
Like, there are some thingsobviously you know making sure
your magnesium levels arecorrect, making sure that you're
you know you have the rightmakeup of minerals, and these
are all things that you knownutrition can correct eating
time, frequency of eating andnot skipping meals, and things
(11:52):
like that.
That can also help with, youknow, nervous system responses,
managing blood sugar, so thatyour blood sugar is not spiking
um in between.
Those things all help, butthere's really nothing like this
or other physical things forthe adrenals.
I just feel like we've gotgreat research on meditation and
(12:18):
yoga and things like that inthe PCOS adrenals, but I'd be so
curious to see maybe they existand I haven't seen them but
some studies on adrenaldysfunction and pelvic health
and how improving that,improving one thing, helps the
other.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Oh, that'd be such a great study.
Right we should do it together.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, let's do it.
Anybody want to be a studyparticipant?
Let us know.
But yeah, I don't know.
I mean, that's probably one ofthe main things that I just have
found so cool about this wholeprocess.
And the other thing is,theoretically, you know that
(12:57):
obviously anatomy and physiologyall your muscles are connected.
But it tends to be this thingwhere, for example, I used to
get a lot of headaches.
But it tends to be this thingwhere, for example, I used to
get a lot of headaches and wefound that a lot of my headache
issues were kind of connecteddown into my hips and into my
pelvic floor, and so I was veryfocused on like roll my
shoulders back or what you know,all that kind of stuff.
(13:20):
And you know not to say thatthat kind of thing doesn't help,
but I don't know, it's justbeen very interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
No, it's completely Well in the postural piece it is
.
It's all so interconnected.
Like you talked about thosedeep hip muscles, they live in
the pelvis and so many timespeople don't always associate
that my back pain or my hip paincould be coming from inside of
my pelvis and so maybe, oh, I'vetried PT and that didn't help.
(13:46):
Um, or you know, I've donethese stretches or I've done
these exercises and that wasn'thelpful.
But then you get into thepelvic floor muscles or those
deep hip muscles and you startto feel like, oh, that
replicates my symptoms, thatcauses my back pain, or that
causes my hip pain, or that'sthe pain that I feel when I'm
having sex.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I didn't even think that it could be a muscle, and
so then, being able to treatthat and decrease those symptoms
, I mean, that's life-changing,it really is and it seems from
the outside like it won't makethat much of a difference, but
it really just does make such abig difference in your quality
(14:29):
of life.
I remember when Holly found likethe muscle that was like overly
tight on my pelvic floor well,my internal hip rotator and I
was like, oh, that's the painand it was pretty intense at the
beginning and now it doesn't dothat anymore, which is so crazy
.
One of the cool things that Ifound working with her is that
(14:50):
she always says that especiallyif a muscle's never really been
manipulated before, right, it'snever really been worked on, she
finds that a lot of times thefixing that issue it kind of
sticks, whereas other forms ofbody manipulation or like
massage, for example, nothingagainst massage, but oftentimes
you get a massage, you know youneed to come back get another
(15:12):
massage Like it's.
You know it's cumulative, youhave to keep doing it.
Chiropraction is similar tothat.
This was really cool because itwas like we fixed it and it
actually is fixed.
There's some maintenance workthat has to happen here and
there, but it's not anythinglike you would expect.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
How many of us have ever actually had our pelvic
floor muscles shown to us or,you know, say, hey, I'm pushing
on this muscle, or what doesthat feel like?
How many of us have actuallyever brought our attention, on
our awareness, to our pelvicfloor muscles?
So, so often with this stuff,it's it's like you can't, like I
can't, unlearn how to relax mypelvic floor muscles because
(15:53):
nobody ever taught it to me.
And then I remember that lightbulb moment, right, like I
actually had to feel the musclesmyself, to feel that breath
into them, and say, oh, that's arelaxation of my pelvic floor
muscles that's never going to beable to leave my brain, right.
It's like, oh, now I know howto relax those muscles, I now
know how to contract thosemuscles at appropriate times,
(16:15):
and so I feel like they're notoften treated.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So I found it really cool too that over time shape of
my body has actually changedbecause we learned that I wasn't
actually able to to recognizemy own glute muscles and stuff.
I was using my lower back andmy thighs and you know all kinds
of different things, and so oneof the cool things about
(16:41):
working with her from a PTperspective is that I've learned
to recognize muscles, and justbeing able to recognize them and
engage them is, I mean, it'sit's so important and it's also
so funny that, like you could goyour whole life without ever
engaging like lower abdominals,like you know and it's yes, and
(17:03):
it's so fun when you could feelthem Right.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I mean having that that light bulb moment.
I went to PT school I was aphysical therapist before I
became a pelvic health therapistand I never knew how to
contract my lower abs properly.
I I don't think anybody evercued me to contract my pelvic
floor muscles.
I remember being in PT schooland then queuing things like
(17:26):
pull your belly button to yourspine or engage your core, and
then, when that light bulbmoment went off, he's like, oh,
that's what they were trying toget me to do.
I just never knew how to do itproperly.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, I remember I had a similar moment with you
where I thought that I wascontracting my lower abdominals.
I was like I am and you're likeno, you're not.
Why did you get into this workin the first place?
Like, did you start changingfrom what you originally did as
a PT to this?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
this?
Um, yeah, my own experiencewith my pelvic floor.
So I transitioned after I hadgave birth to my oldest son.
Um, I again was a PT.
I went through pregnancy, doingall the things being an expert
in the musculoskeletal system,giving birth and uncomplicated,
you know, vaginal delivery, andthen trying to return to
(18:28):
exercise and movement and lifeand just thinking something's
not right here and going throughmy own experience of pelvic
organ prolapse and pain andweakness and and starting to
learn this stuff sort of throughmy own journey and saying why
is nobody talking about this?
(18:49):
Why are there not more resourcesout there for people and their
public health?
Um, and so, just navigatingthrough that, diving through
that, seeking out moreinformation for myself, and then
just wanting to spread theknowledge and awareness to other
women in our community and andnormalize it right that, like so
(19:10):
many of us are struggling withthese things in silence and not
talking about them, um, I can'ttell you, like, around pelvic
organ prolapse, like how manypeople struggle with prolapse
and and are ashamed to talkabout it or don't talk about it,
um, and and then don't seek outhelp and resources.
(19:30):
And so, knowing that there'sthings that we can do, uh,
physical therapy is an optionand we can learn and understand
our bodies better and and andimprove our symptoms.
Um, how many people strugglewith pain with sex?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
right yeah, I was going to ask you what are some
of the most common things thatyou will see.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Painful sex is definitely one of the most
common things that I treat.
Incontinence urinary is one ofthe most common.
I also see some fecalincontinence as well, and then
pelvic organ prolapse, diastasisrecti or abdominal weakness.
Those tend to be sort of someof the most common things,
(20:14):
sometimes some low back andpelvic pain things, but
definitely I would say those arethe primary ones, some of the
most common things, sometimessome low back and pelvic pain
things, but, um, definitely Iwould say those are the primary
ones.
Um, and where it's hard to seekout help in other areas.
You know, if you're having painwith sex and people don't have
answers as to why, or you'rejust told that's normal or
(20:34):
that's just the way that it is,or just relax.
It's not helpful.
And so actually getting into,like, what is causing it Is it a
nerve concern?
Is it something going on from adermatologic standpoint Is?
Is it a musculoskeletal?
You know the pelvic floormuscles, and so finding somebody
that can actually assess thosefor you and figure out what is
(20:59):
the cause of those symptoms andthen giving you a plan moving
forward, it just makes such adifference.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, the pelvic floor used to think of it as
literally just one thing, like,just like floor, but you know,
but it's actually like it's acollection of all these
different muscles.
And then there's the fascia isalso involved.
And I remember you, you knowyou, holly has this um, this
anatomy kind of thing of thepelvic floor and she also has a
(21:28):
cool app on her phone.
Anyway, she has a lot of liketeaching tools right, so she'll
show you, um, exactly what youknow, where they're the
tightnesses or where you knowthe problem is, and that being
able to like visually create amap of your own body is really
helpful, not just for reducingpain but also for like
(21:50):
understanding sensations,understanding connections
between different things, and,um, and the takeaway that I
always took from that is, likethis is a complex area, like has
a lot going on.
I don't know why we're nottaught more about everything
that's going on there.
I'm many muscles are in thepelvic floor, or involved.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, there's three layers of pelvic floor muscle,
so, and then the nerves as well.
I often tell people, you know,if you have pain in your hand,
it's easy to sort of comprehendthis idea that it could be
coming from your neck right, orlike carpal tunnel syndrome
right, Like coming from a nerve.
People understand that concept,but I think when we talk about
(22:36):
painful intercourse vaginal pain, vulvar pain it's not always
thought about that.
Oh, this could be coming fromnerves in my low back or in my
pelvis.
It's just like oh, my vaginahurts, so that must be where the
pain is coming from, Right?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Do you think that there?
I mean, we've talked a littlebit about this, but do you think
that there's like a little bitof you know the patriarchy
invading medicine going on here,because women's health concerns
have historically been sort ofpushed aside or like even with
things like PCOS, right, we'reoften just told it's, it's a
(23:18):
weight loss problem, right, likewe're?
Just too fat, and that's why wehave it, and it's so so much
more complicated than that,right?
Do you feel that that is thesame with the pelvic floor?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It is so frustrating the number of people that come
in my office in tears because,oh, my provider told me I just
need to lose weight and that'swhy I'm having these symptoms.
And that is very rarely thecause of your symptoms.
So, like I don't know, I don'tknow why that is.
That is the conclusion, but yes, I see it every day.
(23:52):
Or somebody's having pain andthey're dismissed about it or
given advice that's just reallynot helpful, like use more lube.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
If lube was the problem.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I would have already figured that out and I know so
many of these providers.
It's like well-meaningpotentially, but we need more
research and we need morepractitioners that are really
dedicated to this area andunfortunately there's not a lot
(24:27):
of them.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I agree, I think what I'm noticing on a
systemic level is like there aremore people with the kind of
thought process or brain kind oftendencies as you and I, where
we like to kind of makeconnections between systems and
we like to think deeper.
And I think that some of thosepeople are children right now.
(24:50):
They're growing up and they'regoing to grow into this work and
that's a good thing because weneed that.
We need more specialists, butnot in the traditional sense of
a specialist.
I think the way that the wholeconventional sort of medical
thing is set up, where like,okay, you go to your GP and then
you get your specialist to thisperson or that person, you get
your referral and then they'rejust looking at this, but
(25:13):
they're not also making theconnections between the rest of
the system.
We need more systemic thinkersand specialties.
Am I making sense?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
This is very philosophical, but you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Like we need more people like you, who you're
thinking very deeply about thepelvic floor.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well, and I feel like then too, we can sort of
quarterback some of the otherpractitioners that might be
needed in that area, right?
Because, yes, I can nerd out onthe public floor all the time
and there's, there's thingswithin my scope of practice that
I can do, and then there'sother things that I need to
refer out for potentially, youknow, like a medication or they
(25:54):
make different, likesuppositories that you can use
to help relax the muscles, ifyou're not making progress with
just conventional physicaltherapy.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And so, knowing that we can quarterback those things
out and that there it is a teameffort Oftentimes, do you see a
lot of women with PCOS in yourpractice and you feel like
there's a connection betweenpelvic health issues and PCOS?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
that you've seen Completely.
Yes, it is definitely somethingI see on a regular basis.
I think that many times, thesymptoms of pain with sex and
tight pelvic floor muscles andabdominal pain, um, uh, it's
very, very connected, um, and II think that being able to treat
(26:43):
some of those symptoms, beingable to give tools to be able to
, um, improve the pain that youmay be experiencing, um, the
breath work it is, it is very,very interconnected and so it is
something that we see on adaily basis.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think a lot of my clientsI've been referring for pelvic
floor therapy lately because I'mlike you need to go see a
pelvic floor therapist.
But even stuff like, oh andthis is a question I wanted to
ask you Um, so what I was goingto say is even things like back
(27:23):
pain, right Hip pain, thingslike that People don't tend to
connect with the pelvic floor,like you were saying earlier,
but it could potentially bepelvic floor issues.
What are some things thatpeople experience, some
different types of pain orwhatever that maybe don't seem
like they would be connected tothe pelvic floor but actually
are.
(27:44):
Can you think?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Oh yeah, yes, definitely Well, and we say this
in our practice all the time.
Like you may think that it'snot connected, but just let us
know because there's definitelyprobably a way that it is
connected.
So many times, uh, ankle foot,knee are very connected.
I often tell patients to youwant to pelvic floor therapist
(28:07):
that's going to look outside ofthe pelvic floor as well.
So, as much as we may start inthe pelvic floor right and do an
assessment, because that's whatyou're coming in for, let's
look at that right and do anassessment because that's what
you're coming in for.
Let's look at that Also,remembering that things are very
interconnected, um, and thatsometimes we need to look
outside the pelvic floor.
Like that fall you had on yourtailbone could be connected to
(28:28):
your pelvic floor, or that footpain that you're experiencing
could be connected to yourpelvic floor, jaw, the jaw, tmj
pain or neck pain.
Many times I find there is acorrelation between a tight jaw
and jaw clenching and tensionand tightness in the pelvis.
(28:52):
So those are sometimes thingsthat people don't often connect
or correlate.
So if you've already addressedsome of those and you're not
getting the symptoms, thesymptom resolution that you're
looking for, sometimes lookingoutside the box can be very,
very helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Going along with TMJ and jaw pain and things like
that headaches.
You know, and I know, with PCOSa lot of us tend to experience
headaches, and I know with PCOSa lot of us tend to experience
headaches.
We know also that ADHD is morecommon in PCOS and those with
ADHD often have some posturalissues that are a little bit
different.
Right, Am I speaking out ofturn by saying that?
(29:32):
But that can be connected toall of that stuff too.
So tons and tons of connections, all the connections.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh yeah, it's so.
I mean the core.
How many people cue the corebut aren't looking at the pelvic
floor?
I don't think that you canreally cue the core effectively
without knowing what's going onin the pelvic floor muscles.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think you're absolutely right about that.
Let's talk about maybe aslightly not safe for work topic
.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So yes, please.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
But like talk about orgasms, how are orgasms
connected to your pelvic floor?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Oh, my goodness.
So how much does the pelvicfloor connect here?
A hundred percent, because theclitoris is just behind those
superficial or, like most,outside pelvic floor muscles.
So how often do we think aboutmuscle around our labia?
(30:37):
Right, many times people onlythink about the clitoris as the
glands at the very top, but it'sactually.
It looks almost like a wishboneand it's much larger than we
think it is.
So clitoral erection um, thosesuperficial pelvic floor muscles
are the ones that areresponsible for clitoral
erection.
So if we can address thosepelvic floor muscles many times
(31:01):
we can improve either themobility of the foreskin of the
clitoris, we can improveclitoral erection, blood flow to
the area.
So definitely I feel likesexual health.
If you are having concerns withanything from inability to
(31:23):
orgasm, decreased intensity oforgasm, addressing your pelvic
floor can many times have a verypositive impact on the way that
you're experiencing orgasms.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
It goes so beyond.
Just, for example, if you havepain on penetration, right, you
might think, okay, well, I'llfix that, but then you know
it'll all still be the same, Ijust won't have pain there.
But actually it really can openup your ability to experience
pleasure in other places thatyou never would have thought of.
(31:59):
There's a lot of change thatcan happen with the quality of
your sex life besides.
Just okay, it doesn't hurt tobe penetrated anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah Well, and even working with a specialist that I
treat pain with sex, often evenaddressing the fact that as a
society and a culture we've sortof made this like first base,
second base, third base, homebase, right, like penetration is
kind of like the thing, right,but can we not reframe sexuality
(32:32):
in a way where it's more um, Ihad a, I went to a conference,
pelvicon last year and uh, yousee, one of the speakers yes,
yes, one of the speakers.
Speakers yes, yes, one of thespeakers.
I loved her analogy.
Can we talk about sexuality asa pizza Like hey, I like thin
(32:52):
crust.
Um, I like peppers and onions.
Oh, you don't like onions?
Okay, let's not include those.
Let's add this Uh, and justcreating more of this uh visual,
this visual of a pizza or abuffet style, versus kind of the
way we've we've looked at it asa society and the way it's
(33:13):
portrayed in movies and TV showsand in our culture is is the
this sort of gold standard.
Penetration is what we want.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Right, if, if you know, back pain wasn't reason
enough, guys, right, if you knowback pain wasn't reason enough,
guys.
But yeah, I mean I appreciatelike talking with you about this
stuff because these are topicsthat are important and yet it is
even for me when I talk.
I talk about women's health andvarious female organs and stuff
(33:46):
all day long, but this is stilla kind of an uncomfortable
topic.
I'm like struggling with mydiscomfort on talking about
these things.
So one of the things that Ireally like and admire about you
is just how not uncomfortableyou are about talking about this
stuff.
It's like, you know, it's justlike every day.
It's like how I am with talkingabout poop.
You know you're just like oh,yeah, and then da, da, yeah, and
then, and I just I love that, Iadmire that.
(34:08):
I think we should, we reallyshould all be like that, but for
whatever reason, for manyreasons, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, I tell my clients that all the time I'm
like, I acknowledge that this isnot your daily norm and that
it's my daily norm, like this iswhat I talk about all day long
but it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
it shouldn't be embarrassing or taboo to kind of
get help for for this stuff.
And, um, if I could hammer homeanything to my PCOS clients, it
would be explore this,especially if you have pain,
especially if you deal with,like, hip and back pain, if you
(34:52):
deal with adrenal dysfunction,constipation, constipation
that's another reason.
Yeah, there's just.
It can be very, very supportive, even if from the outset it
doesn't seem like it would betotally connected.
It can actually be one of thebest things that you ever do for
yourself, and that definitelyhas been my experience.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So um, yeah, oh yeah, Even from a wellness standpoint
, if you're not having glaringsymptoms.
I I love when people come injust to check on their pelvic
floor.
Yes, like how are things goingand and having a practitioner or
provider that can ask, maybe,questions where you're like, oh,
(35:37):
I didn't think about it in thatway.
Um, my hope is that one daypelvic floor evaluations and
assessments are just like aroutine norm.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, um for us assessment was so fun.
I love assessments Honestly, Ireally do.
I just like it's fun to getassessed.
It was cool to kind of like geta little like oh, this is
what's going on with you, andlike this is where it's
happening and this is what'sconnected, like, yeah, and I did
learn some stuff that I neverwould have known otherwise or
(36:09):
even thought to have asked.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
So I feel like most of my clients feel that way.
You know, it's a little bitnerve wracking going in,
especially if so I don't alwaysdo an internal pelvic floor
muscle assessment for peopleright off the bat.
There's so many factors likehow is your nervous system, what
is your past experience?
Like, how comfortable are youwith a pelvic floor muscle
(36:33):
assessment?
Um, you know, are you sexuallyactive, all those sorts of
things, and so I don't always doan internal pelvic floor
assessment.
But if I do, um, I find most ofmy clients leave feeling a
little bit more in tune withtheir body, having a little bit
more awareness on what is goingon in their body, and I think
(36:55):
that's really empowering to knowand understand your body more
and to have somebody thatactually takes the time to show
you what they're doing, whythey're doing it, how it
connects to you as a person.
And so you know, obviously notall pelvic health practitioners
are created equally, so findingsomebody that's going to really
(37:17):
take the time to teach you um,make you under, you know, help
you to understand what's goingon.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And then also somebody that's going to, yes,
work in your pelvic floor butalso work outside your pelvic
floor yeah, work outside yourpelvic floor, yeah absolutely, I
totally agree, and you, youwork quite a bit with survivors
of sexual trauma as well, right,so for anyone, cause you know
that a lot of us, a lot of uswomen have have dealt with that
at some point.
So, um, you know, I knowanything related to being around
(37:48):
the pelvis can be very scary ifyou've ever gone through any of
that, or very nerve wracking.
But tell us how you handlethose kinds of situations.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, a trauma informed practitioner, I think
is very important, especiallyaround this area, and so making
sure that your provider isreally listening to you.
I always ask for not onlyverbal consent when I do
assessments, it's actually everytime I do it.
I have, I have a routine that Igo through, that I do because
(38:18):
I've always said from thebeginning, when I started this,
I never want to be the provider.
That's just.
This is what I do all day,every day, and I I don't
acknowledge that there's aperson attached to this pelvic
floor, and so I always ask,explain what I'm going to do,
why I'm going to do it, um, andthen ask for verbal consent as
(38:38):
well, as I tell my patients allthe time I want a verbal, yes,
but I also want a nervous system, yes.
You know, looking at visual cuesof what is.
What are facial expressionsdoing?
How is somebody feeling Are?
Are they clenched and tight?
You know how many providers arelike, oh, let me check out
what's going on.
Like you have to read nervoussystem cues as well.
(39:01):
So that is something that wealways do in our practice is
make sure that our patients feelseen, heard and that and that
we're listening beyond just thewords that are coming out of
your mouth as a verbal yes.
Another thing sometimes thatI'll do is, instead of just
saying I'm going to do this, Iask like let me know when I can
(39:25):
place my hand.
So then that way, it actuallyrequires a okay, I'm ready,
versus this is just what I'mgoing to do.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah, it's very.
If you're nervous about it, Ican assure you it is very
different than going to theOBGYN.
It's like there's no speculum,it's not like done all right,
it's not like getting an IUDinsertion guys.
So, um no, we, we always, youknow, we laugh because, uh, I've
(39:54):
been seeing Holly for a coupleof years now and the you know,
the consent conversation stillgoes on right.
Obviously I'm there, I consent,but she, she's so careful about
that and I really reallyappreciate that.
And especially if you have ahistory of any kind of sexual
trauma, that kind of thing isreally really helpful to keep
you kind of calm, because it's ascary thing.
(40:16):
I mean, even without that, it'skind of like an awkward, scary
thing to go to a pelvic floortherapist, especially for the
first time.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
So yeah, oh, yes, oh yes.
And so I always encouragepeople like, again, this is what
we do all day, every day, likeI always tell people it's my
daily norm, but I'm havingsomebody who's really going to
take the time to walk youthrough things and that, yeah,
you want somebody that's goingto ask those consent questions
(40:46):
as well as read the nervoussystem Right.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Read the room on that one and Holly is a great room
reader and, guys, if you likeHolly, I will tell you that she
is starting her own podcast.
What's it going to be called?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
The Lotus Pod, the Lotus Pod, the Lotus Pod.
What's?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
it gonna be called the lotus pod, the lotus pod.
The lotus pod.
Holly is actually was the maininspiration for me getting this
new microphone, so you guys canthank holly for the better
quality of sound on this herepodcast.
Um, so she is starting apodcast with another uh, public
floor therapist and uh, what areyou guys going to be talking
(41:28):
about?
Speaker 2 (41:29):
We plan to talk about all things pelvic health,
women's health, theuncomfortable conversations that
people feel like they can't askabout or can't seek information
about.
We just want to spreadawareness, normalize this
conversation again, that you arenormal and that there are
people out there that can helpyou.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, it's going to be really, really good.
I I'm excited for it, and so if, by the time this podcast goes
live, if the if her podcast isup, I will definitely link to it
.
Go follow it.
Um, follow her on social media.
Where can they find you?
Holly Lotus rehab, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
So search that on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook,
all the platforms.
Do you have a Tik TOK?
I do have a Tik TOK.
A few videos on there.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Um YouTube.
No, I'm just kidding Um well,not well, not yet.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Not yet.
We'll do a youtube.
She's getting there.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
When we do the podcast, we'll plan to also do
some youtubes on there and youknow, if you need a pelvic floor
therapy and you're in the sanantonio area, seek out her
practice, because her and all ofthe people that she works with
are fabulous.
So, um, and you might see methere sitting in the waiting
room usually knitting um, yeah,but thank you so much for being
(42:55):
here, holly.
What a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
If you guys have any follow-up questions.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
For holly, I'm gonna try to convince her to come on
the podcast again.
We'll see see if she does it.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
But I would be happy to.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh, she would love to , so send send any follow-up
questions, please, please.
Hey guys, I'm back in theediting room and this was such a
fantastic conversation.
I hope you really enjoyed it.
I love talking to Holly.
As you can probably tell,whenever I talk to somebody that
I admire greatly, I get alittle starstruck and I tend to
(43:30):
not be quite as articulate, Ithink.
So I had to do a lot of editingon this one.
There were probably a lot ofslightly annoying little cuts,
and it was mostly because I wascutting out myself, saying the
word like about 100,000 times,and so hopefully it sounded
really nice to you.
But as I've been sitting herefor a couple hours and I am
(43:52):
quite frustrated with myself, soI just wanted to, you know, let
you guys know that Holly isdefinitely willing to come back
on the podcast.
If you have questions, pleasedo submit them.
And the other thing I wanted tosay before I close up is that,
starting May 22nd, I'm going tobe running another round of my
(44:15):
group program that I run withHannah Mule, who is you probably
know her as the ConsciousNutritionist.
Her and I run this groupprogram called PCOS Essentials
Academy.
It's a four-week small groupprogram.
We usually have less than 30people enrolled.
And then, on the callsthemselves, a lot of people
(44:37):
can't make the actual callsbecause they work during those
times or they live in othercountries or what have you, and
so the calls tend to be prettysmall groups, anywhere from like
five to 10 people maybe, and soit's a great opportunity to
kind of work almost one-on-onewith her and I and get your
(44:58):
specific questions about yourPCOS answered.
It's probably the mostbudget-friendly offering that I
have, besides just takingself-paced courses, so it's a
really, really good opportunity.
We only run it a couple times ayear and we haven't run one
since late last year, so if youwant to potentially get some
(45:20):
information about that or signup to join us, you can join my
email newsletter and I will putthat link in the description box
and just follow through onthere, and then I will be
sending out information.
As I have it, I'm actually goingto be working on getting the
(45:40):
website for the new groupprogram up today, so hopefully I
will have a link for you guys.
Anyway, I would love to see you.
I'd love to get to meet you.
I always really, really enjoymeeting podcast listeners during
these programs because, yeah, Idon't get to actually talk to
(46:02):
you guys face to face, so it'skind of really nice to get to
know you and your personalitiesand help you with your PCOS
journey.
So thank you for listeningtoday and I'll see you guys,
hopefully next week.
Bye.
Welcome back to an Amber a day.
I'm your host, amber Fisher,and today I have a great friend,
a very special guest, afabulous professional.
I have Holly from Lotus Rehab.
Holly, tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you, amber man.
It is so wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm so excited you're here, Guys, seriously, Holly.
So I see Holly as a patient andjust over the years we've
become really, you know, tightand I just you guys are going to
love her.
She's fantastic.
So, anyway, hopefully I don'tmake her too nervous.
But okay, Introduce yourself,Holly.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yes, so I am a pelvic floor physical therapist.
I've been doing public healthfor about eight years now and
I'm just really, reallypassionate about women's
healthcare and pelvic health inparticular.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So I literally never met somebody more passionate
about their niche than Holly.
Somebody more passionate abouttheir niche than Holly, no joke.
She has taught me so much aboutthe connection between pelvic
floor and the nervous system,sexual health and physical
health, anatomy and physiology.
(01:16):
There are some crazy musclesdown there that I didn't even
know existed, and we're going totry to get into as much great
stuff as we can today.
I'm so excited for you guys tohear her perspective on
different things.
This is a PCOS podcast, so wewill try to bring it back to
PCOS a few times, but can youtell us, I guess briefly, why is
(01:37):
the pelvic floor important?
Is it just about being able topee?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's right.
Why is the pelvic floorimportant?
Oh my gosh, the pelvic floor.
I feel like it's become such abuzzword lately, which is really
wonderful.
I feel like awareness hasspread so much about it.
But the pelvic floor plays sucha role, like you said, in our
nervous system.
Um, things that I often see inmy practice sexual health and
(02:07):
wellness, pain, exercise andstability, back stability, core
stability I mean the pelvicfloor.
I feel like it really is thefoundation for so many pieces of
our health and of our wellness,so many pieces of our health
(02:29):
and of our wellness.
And you know, my my hope and mywish is that everybody has an
opportunity to see a pelvichealth specialist and be able to
really get individualized carefor what's going on with your
pelvic floor.
Because you know, kind of fromthat standpoint to, how often do
people hear like just do Kegels.
Or you know, kind of from thatstandpoint too, how often do
people hear like just do Kegels.
Or you know why see a pelvicfloor therapist when you can
(02:51):
just do Kegels at home or buysome Kegel weights.
And I think that's one of themost frustrating pieces for me,
because I have my doctorate inphysical therapy and I've
dedicated my life to really likelearning and understanding
pelvic health and how it's, howit's incorporated in our body,
and it's so much more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh my gosh, it is.
And I always dismissed pelvicfloor therapy as something Well
I I guess I had, I had a lot ofmisconceptions about it.
I just thought it was for, youknow, after you have a baby and
everything's loose down thereand you know you can't sneeze
without pee.
That's just what I thought itwas.
And so, yeah, key goals, allthat kind of stuff, and for me I
thought I don't know TMI guys,but I was like I don't have any
(03:34):
problem with that, like, ifanything, I everything's tight
and fine down there.
But I was having a lot of painafter my hysterectomy.
There were a lot of things thatwere kind of coming up
pain-wise, and so my doctorrecommended that I go see a
pelvic floor therapist.
I asked around friends.
I had a friend that saw Hollyalready, so I got in there and
(03:59):
what we discovered?
Well, much was discovered overthe months, but one of the first
things I remember being really,really impressed by was the
fact that your pelvic floorcannot just be too loose but it
can also be too tight.
And so for me I had a lot ofhip issues and things because
(04:21):
internal hip rotators, myobturator internus guys, which I
learned because of Holly andher anatomy models, but those
muscles were very, very tight onme and so for a long time we've
been working on that and we'vebeen able to kind of loosen
those muscles and it has really,I mean, just completely changed
(04:44):
so much for me.
But the thing that I found themost interesting was how much
more relaxed I was and how Icould just feel my cortisol
reducing from the effect ofloosening up all of those
muscles and I never in a millionyears would have thought like
pelvic floor therapy could havehelped with my adrenal
(05:06):
dysfunction, but like itabsolutely did.
Can you tell us why?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
why did that?
Oh my gosh.
Yes, well, the pelvic floor isso connected to the autonomic
nervous system, um, sympatheticsystem, fight, flight, freeze,
parasympathetic, rest and digest.
And if you think about it, whenthey if you're watching a scary
movie, for instance, or there'sa bear right, your pelvic floor
muscles are going to be moretense and contracted versus if
(05:34):
you're in a more relaxed state,your pelvic floor muscles are
going to be more relaxed.
And so that's where I find thatoften, if somebody does have
tension or increased tone intheir pelvic floor muscles, when
we release and relax thosemuscles, learn how to link them,
those muscles many times thatwill connect with increased
(05:54):
overall relaxation in your body.
The pelvic floor muscles arealso a diaphragm that are
connected to your breathingdiaphragm or your respiratory
diaphragm.
So how many times do I seepeople who are counselors or
teaching diaphragmatic breathing, but nobody's talking about how
the pelvic floor is connectedinto that breath?
(06:16):
And so then you may not bemaximizing your diaphragmatic
breathing If that's somethingthat you're working on, if
you're not getting that breathall the way down into your
pelvic floor muscles.
So we want those muscles to beflexible as well as strong,
right Like strength.
Yes, that's a piece of it.
That's why I think people talkabout, you know, doing Kegels in
(06:39):
general, but they need to beflexible and they need to be
strong, and I think that's wherehaving an individualized
assessment on what is going onwith your muscles, what is going
on in your body, and then fromthere, coming up with an
individualized treatment planthat's going to include
lengthening relaxation of thosemuscles, if that's what you need
(07:01):
, or strengthening stability,coordination, if that's what you
need, and, yeah, coordination,if that's what you need.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, I love that and that was something that I was
really impressed with in yourapproach, because I realized
over time that my pelvic floortightness was connected to so
many other things in my bodypostural issues that I had been
trying to correct for years, andeven down to like we're always
talking about I hold my toesreally tight.
(07:27):
I'm like my shoes and your toesare clenched because you're
clenching your pelvic floor.
And the thing that I thought wasreally also interesting about
it too, is that a lot of timeswhen we talk about breath work
or we talk about even thingslike yoga or muscle relaxation,
it's kind of like there's amental element to it of like,
okay, well, just like just relaxyour muscles, right, but the
(07:51):
internal, like pelvic flurrymuscles, I can't consciously
like relax those or I couldn'tat least early on, because I
wasn't connected to like whatthey felt like in my body.
I mean, there's like no stretchthat really gets the obturator
internus.
You know, I mean I could bewrong there, correct me if I'm
wrong, but like I found itreally difficult.
(08:13):
It was like it took a lot ofthe pressure off of me once I
realized like, okay, this is notlike something that I'm just
like doing wrong, it's just mybody naturally responding to,
you know, different things overthe years, like, for example,
all of the medical trauma that Iwent through over the years
with having, you know, having alot of biopsies and surgeries
(08:35):
and things like that, your body,that, even though you're asleep
, all those things are happening, they're still happening to
your body and your bodyremembers.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh yeah, well, and if you have a history of pain with
sex or painful pelvic exams atthe gynecologist, if you're
repeatedly having those painfulexperiences, your body is going
to naturally guard and protectthat area.
And so that's where to reallygetting down to the root of what
is causing your symptoms,addressing that and then also
(09:06):
addressing the pelvic floormuscles so that you're not
having those painful experiences, so that you're not feeling
like you have to guard andprotect that area, and you can
get those muscles to be moreflexible, mobile, relaxed, and
so, yeah, I mean your body'sgoing to hold on to those things
.
What's that book?
The body?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
keeps the score right , exactly because we we went
through a time working togetherwhere we had to take away like a
lot of things that were just,you know, part of life, that I
was just dealing with the painbecause you know, repeated sort
of memory of like this oh thisis a painful experience clench
up and I felt so like it was allmy fault because I couldn't
(09:48):
just relax, like why couldn't Ijust breathe through it and make
my muscles relax?
But it's that unconsciousnessthat's happening.
And the cool side effect ofcorrecting all of that and
actually having more positiveexperiences and like slowly
building up the experiences sothat they're not painful anymore
, was that my adrenal systemtotally changed.
(10:13):
I stopped being so tense in allareas of my life.
I was dealing with some somepretty major cortisol stuff and
just working on the pelvic floorlike kind of fixed a lot of
that was really crazy, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And that's not uncommon.
I hear that all the time and Ithink we don't realize how much
the pelvic floor muscles areinterconnected in our entire
body.
Even so, the sacrum like whenwe talk about the pelvis right,
the bottom portion of the pelvisor the sacrum in the back
tailbone area that's a hugehouse for your sympathetic
(10:51):
ganglia.
So a lot of that sympatheticsystem lives there, and so when
we learn to relax those muscles,when we dry needle that space,
I find we can have an impactwhere we actually decrease that
sympathetic system and increasethe parasympathetic systems.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
We talk a lot, of course, in nutrition about food
and diet and all that when itcomes to PCOS, right, but we
know that with PCOS, one of themain root cause issues that a
lot of us are dealing with isadrenal dysfunction and
overactive, you know, nervoussystem responses, and the one
downside of being in nutritionis that for me, I haven't found
(11:30):
very many nutritionrecommendations that actually
work very well on that.
Like, there are some thingsobviously you know making sure
your magnesium levels arecorrect, making sure that you're
you know you have the rightmakeup of minerals, and these
are all things that you knownutrition can correct eating
time, frequency of eating andnot skipping meals, and things
(11:52):
like that.
That can also help with, youknow, nervous system responses,
managing blood sugar, so thatyour blood sugar is not spiking
um in between.
Those things all help, butthere's really nothing like this
or other physical things forthe adrenals.
I just feel like we've gotgreat research on meditation and
(12:18):
yoga and things like that inthe PCOS adrenals, but I'd be so
curious to see maybe they existand I haven't seen them but
some studies on adrenaldysfunction and pelvic health
and how improving that,improving one thing, helps the
other.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Oh, that'd be such a great study.
Right we should do it together.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, let's do it.
Anybody want to be a studyparticipant?
Let us know.
But yeah, I don't know.
I mean, that's probably one ofthe main things that I just have
found so cool about this wholeprocess.
And the other thing is,theoretically, you know that
(12:57):
obviously anatomy and physiologyall your muscles are connected.
But it tends to be this thingwhere, for example, I used to
get a lot of headaches.
But it tends to be this thingwhere, for example, I used to
get a lot of headaches and wefound that a lot of my headache
issues were kind of connecteddown into my hips and into my
pelvic floor, and so I was veryfocused on like roll my
shoulders back or what you know,all that kind of stuff.
(13:20):
And you know not to say thatthat kind of thing doesn't help,
but I don't know, it's justbeen very interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
No, it's completely Well in the postural piece it is
.
It's all so interconnected.
Like you talked about thosedeep hip muscles, they live in
the pelvis and so many timespeople don't always associate
that my back pain or my hip paincould be coming from inside of
my pelvis and so maybe, oh, I'vetried PT and that didn't help.
(13:46):
Um, or you know, I've donethese stretches or I've done
these exercises and that wasn'thelpful.
But then you get into thepelvic floor muscles or those
deep hip muscles and you startto feel like, oh, that
replicates my symptoms, thatcauses my back pain, or that
causes my hip pain, or that'sthe pain that I feel when I'm
having sex.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I didn't even think that it could be a muscle, and
so then, being able to treatthat and decrease those symptoms
, I mean, that's life-changing,it really is and it seems from
the outside like it won't makethat much of a difference, but
it really just does make such abig difference in your quality
(14:29):
of life.
I remember when Holly found likethe muscle that was like overly
tight on my pelvic floor well,my internal hip rotator and I
was like, oh, that's the painand it was pretty intense at the
beginning and now it doesn't dothat anymore, which is so crazy
.
One of the cool things that Ifound working with her is that
(14:50):
she always says that especiallyif a muscle's never really been
manipulated before, right, it'snever really been worked on, she
finds that a lot of times thefixing that issue it kind of
sticks, whereas other forms ofbody manipulation or like
massage, for example, nothingagainst massage, but oftentimes
you get a massage, you know youneed to come back get another
(15:12):
massage Like it's.
You know it's cumulative, youhave to keep doing it.
Chiropraction is similar tothat.
This was really cool because itwas like we fixed it and it
actually is fixed.
There's some maintenance workthat has to happen here and
there, but it's not anythinglike you would expect.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
How many of us have ever actually had our pelvic
floor muscles shown to us or,you know, say, hey, I'm pushing
on this muscle, or what doesthat feel like?
How many of us have actuallyever brought our attention, on
our awareness, to our pelvicfloor muscles?
So, so often with this stuff,it's it's like you can't, like I
can't, unlearn how to relax mypelvic floor muscles because
(15:53):
nobody ever taught it to me.
And then I remember that lightbulb moment, right, like I
actually had to feel the musclesmyself, to feel that breath
into them, and say, oh, that's arelaxation of my pelvic floor
muscles that's never going to beable to leave my brain, right.
It's like, oh, now I know howto relax those muscles, I now
know how to contract thosemuscles at appropriate times,
(16:15):
and so I feel like they're notoften treated.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So I found it really cool too that over time shape of
my body has actually changedbecause we learned that I wasn't
actually able to to recognizemy own glute muscles and stuff.
I was using my lower back andmy thighs and you know all kinds
of different things, and so oneof the cool things about
(16:41):
working with her from a PTperspective is that I've learned
to recognize muscles, and justbeing able to recognize them and
engage them is, I mean, it'sit's so important and it's also
so funny that, like you could goyour whole life without ever
engaging like lower abdominals,like you know and it's yes, and
(17:03):
it's so fun when you could feelthem Right.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I mean having that that light bulb moment.
I went to PT school I was aphysical therapist before I
became a pelvic health therapistand I never knew how to
contract my lower abs properly.
I I don't think anybody evercued me to contract my pelvic
floor muscles.
I remember being in PT schooland then queuing things like
(17:26):
pull your belly button to yourspine or engage your core, and
then, when that light bulbmoment went off, he's like, oh,
that's what they were trying toget me to do.
I just never knew how to do itproperly.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, I remember I had a similar moment with you
where I thought that I wascontracting my lower abdominals.
I was like I am and you're likeno, you're not.
Why did you get into this workin the first place?
Like, did you start changingfrom what you originally did as
a PT to this?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
this?
Um, yeah, my own experiencewith my pelvic floor.
So I transitioned after I hadgave birth to my oldest son.
Um, I again was a PT.
I went through pregnancy, doingall the things being an expert
in the musculoskeletal system,giving birth and uncomplicated,
you know, vaginal delivery, andthen trying to return to
(18:28):
exercise and movement and lifeand just thinking something's
not right here and going throughmy own experience of pelvic
organ prolapse and pain andweakness and and starting to
learn this stuff sort of throughmy own journey and saying why
is nobody talking about this?
(18:49):
Why are there not more resourcesout there for people and their
public health?
Um, and so, just navigatingthrough that, diving through
that, seeking out moreinformation for myself, and then
just wanting to spread theknowledge and awareness to other
women in our community and andnormalize it right that, like so
(19:10):
many of us are struggling withthese things in silence and not
talking about them, um, I can'ttell you, like, around pelvic
organ prolapse, like how manypeople struggle with prolapse
and and are ashamed to talkabout it or don't talk about it,
um, and and then don't seek outhelp and resources.
(19:30):
And so, knowing that there'sthings that we can do, uh,
physical therapy is an optionand we can learn and understand
our bodies better and and andimprove our symptoms.
Um, how many people strugglewith pain with sex?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
right yeah, I was going to ask you what are some
of the most common things thatyou will see.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Painful sex is definitely one of the most
common things that I treat.
Incontinence urinary is one ofthe most common.
I also see some fecalincontinence as well, and then
pelvic organ prolapse, diastasisrecti or abdominal weakness.
Those tend to be sort of someof the most common things,
(20:14):
sometimes some low back andpelvic pain things, but
definitely I would say those arethe primary ones, some of the
most common things, sometimessome low back and pelvic pain
things, but, um, definitely Iwould say those are the primary
ones.
Um, and where it's hard to seekout help in other areas.
You know, if you're having painwith sex and people don't have
answers as to why, or you'rejust told that's normal or
(20:34):
that's just the way that it is,or just relax.
It's not helpful.
And so actually getting into,like, what is causing it Is it a
nerve concern?
Is it something going on from adermatologic standpoint Is?
Is it a musculoskeletal?
You know the pelvic floormuscles, and so finding somebody
that can actually assess thosefor you and figure out what is
(20:59):
the cause of those symptoms andthen giving you a plan moving
forward, it just makes such adifference.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, the pelvic floor used to think of it as
literally just one thing, like,just like floor, but you know,
but it's actually like it's acollection of all these
different muscles.
And then there's the fascia isalso involved.
And I remember you, you knowyou, holly has this um, this
anatomy kind of thing of thepelvic floor and she also has a
(21:28):
cool app on her phone.
Anyway, she has a lot of liketeaching tools right, so she'll
show you, um, exactly what youknow, where they're the
tightnesses or where you knowthe problem is, and that being
able to like visually create amap of your own body is really
helpful, not just for reducingpain but also for like
(21:50):
understanding sensations,understanding connections
between different things, and,um, and the takeaway that I
always took from that is, likethis is a complex area, like has
a lot going on.
I don't know why we're nottaught more about everything
that's going on there.
I'm many muscles are in thepelvic floor, or involved.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, there's three layers of pelvic floor muscle,
so, and then the nerves as well.
I often tell people, you know,if you have pain in your hand,
it's easy to sort of comprehendthis idea that it could be
coming from your neck right, orlike carpal tunnel syndrome
right, Like coming from a nerve.
People understand that concept,but I think when we talk about
(22:36):
painful intercourse vaginal pain, vulvar pain it's not always
thought about that.
Oh, this could be coming fromnerves in my low back or in my
pelvis.
It's just like oh, my vaginahurts, so that must be where the
pain is coming from, Right?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Do you think that there?
I mean, we've talked a littlebit about this, but do you think
that there's like a little bitof you know the patriarchy
invading medicine going on here,because women's health concerns
have historically been sort ofpushed aside or like even with
things like PCOS, right, we'reoften just told it's, it's a
(23:18):
weight loss problem, right, likewe're?
Just too fat, and that's why wehave it, and it's so so much
more complicated than that,right?
Do you feel that that is thesame with the pelvic floor?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It is so frustrating the number of people that come
in my office in tears because,oh, my provider told me I just
need to lose weight and that'swhy I'm having these symptoms.
And that is very rarely thecause of your symptoms.
So, like I don't know, I don'tknow why that is.
That is the conclusion, but yes, I see it every day.
(23:52):
Or somebody's having pain andthey're dismissed about it or
given advice that's just reallynot helpful, like use more lube.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
If lube was the problem.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I would have already figured that out and I know so
many of these providers.
It's like well-meaningpotentially, but we need more
research and we need morepractitioners that are really
dedicated to this area andunfortunately there's not a lot
(24:27):
of them.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I agree, I think what I'm noticing on a
systemic level is like there aremore people with the kind of
thought process or brain kind oftendencies as you and I, where
we like to kind of makeconnections between systems and
we like to think deeper.
And I think that some of thosepeople are children right now.
(24:50):
They're growing up and they'regoing to grow into this work and
that's a good thing because weneed that.
We need more specialists, butnot in the traditional sense of
a specialist.
I think the way that the wholeconventional sort of medical
thing is set up, where like,okay, you go to your GP and then
you get your specialist to thisperson or that person, you get
your referral and then they'rejust looking at this, but
(25:13):
they're not also making theconnections between the rest of
the system.
We need more systemic thinkersand specialties.
Am I making sense?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
This is very philosophical, but you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Like we need more people like you, who you're
thinking very deeply about thepelvic floor.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well, and I feel like then too, we can sort of
quarterback some of the otherpractitioners that might be
needed in that area, right?
Because, yes, I can nerd out onthe public floor all the time
and there's, there's thingswithin my scope of practice that
I can do, and then there'sother things that I need to
refer out for potentially, youknow, like a medication or they
(25:54):
make different, likesuppositories that you can use
to help relax the muscles, ifyou're not making progress with
just conventional physicaltherapy.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And so, knowing that we can quarterback those things
out and that there it is a teameffort Oftentimes, do you see a
lot of women with PCOS in yourpractice and you feel like
there's a connection betweenpelvic health issues and PCOS?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
that you've seen Completely.
Yes, it is definitely somethingI see on a regular basis.
I think that many times, thesymptoms of pain with sex and
tight pelvic floor muscles andabdominal pain, um, uh, it's
very, very connected, um, and II think that being able to treat
(26:43):
some of those symptoms, beingable to give tools to be able to
, um, improve the pain that youmay be experiencing, um, the
breath work it is, it is very,very interconnected and so it is
something that we see on adaily basis.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think a lot of my clientsI've been referring for pelvic
floor therapy lately because I'mlike you need to go see a
pelvic floor therapist.
But even stuff like, oh andthis is a question I wanted to
ask you Um, so what I was goingto say is even things like back
(27:23):
pain, right Hip pain, thingslike that People don't tend to
connect with the pelvic floor,like you were saying earlier,
but it could potentially bepelvic floor issues.
What are some things thatpeople experience, some
different types of pain orwhatever that maybe don't seem
like they would be connected tothe pelvic floor but actually
are.
(27:44):
Can you think?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Oh yeah, yes, definitely Well, and we say this
in our practice all the time.
Like you may think that it'snot connected, but just let us
know because there's definitelyprobably a way that it is
connected.
So many times, uh, ankle foot,knee are very connected.
I often tell patients to youwant to pelvic floor therapist
(28:07):
that's going to look outside ofthe pelvic floor as well.
So, as much as we may start inthe pelvic floor right and do an
assessment, because that's whatyou're coming in for, let's
look at that right and do anassessment because that's what
you're coming in for.
Let's look at that Also,remembering that things are very
interconnected, um, and thatsometimes we need to look
outside the pelvic floor.
Like that fall you had on yourtailbone could be connected to
(28:28):
your pelvic floor, or that footpain that you're experiencing
could be connected to yourpelvic floor, jaw, the jaw, tmj
pain or neck pain.
Many times I find there is acorrelation between a tight jaw
and jaw clenching and tensionand tightness in the pelvis.
(28:52):
So those are sometimes thingsthat people don't often connect
or correlate.
So if you've already addressedsome of those and you're not
getting the symptoms, thesymptom resolution that you're
looking for, sometimes lookingoutside the box can be very,
very helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Going along with TMJ and jaw pain and things like
that headaches.
You know, and I know, with PCOSa lot of us tend to experience
headaches, and I know with PCOSa lot of us tend to experience
headaches.
We know also that ADHD is morecommon in PCOS and those with
ADHD often have some posturalissues that are a little bit
different.
Right, Am I speaking out ofturn by saying that?
(29:32):
But that can be connected toall of that stuff too.
So tons and tons of connections, all the connections.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh yeah, it's so.
I mean the core.
How many people cue the corebut aren't looking at the pelvic
floor?
I don't think that you canreally cue the core effectively
without knowing what's going onin the pelvic floor muscles.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think you're absolutely right about that.
Let's talk about maybe aslightly not safe for work topic
.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So yes, please.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
But like talk about orgasms, how are orgasms
connected to your pelvic floor?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Oh, my goodness.
So how much does the pelvicfloor connect here?
A hundred percent, because theclitoris is just behind those
superficial or, like most,outside pelvic floor muscles.
So how often do we think aboutmuscle around our labia?
(30:37):
Right, many times people onlythink about the clitoris as the
glands at the very top, but it'sactually.
It looks almost like a wishboneand it's much larger than we
think it is.
So clitoral erection um, thosesuperficial pelvic floor muscles
are the ones that areresponsible for clitoral
erection.
So if we can address thosepelvic floor muscles many times
(31:01):
we can improve either themobility of the foreskin of the
clitoris, we can improveclitoral erection, blood flow to
the area.
So definitely I feel likesexual health.
If you are having concerns withanything from inability to
(31:23):
orgasm, decreased intensity oforgasm, addressing your pelvic
floor can many times have a verypositive impact on the way that
you're experiencing orgasms.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
It goes so beyond.
Just, for example, if you havepain on penetration, right, you
might think, okay, well, I'llfix that, but then you know
it'll all still be the same, Ijust won't have pain there.
But actually it really can openup your ability to experience
pleasure in other places thatyou never would have thought of.
(31:59):
There's a lot of change thatcan happen with the quality of
your sex life besides.
Just okay, it doesn't hurt tobe penetrated anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah Well, and even working with a specialist that I
treat pain with sex, often evenaddressing the fact that as a
society and a culture we've sortof made this like first base,
second base, third base, homebase, right, like penetration is
kind of like the thing, right,but can we not reframe sexuality
(32:32):
in a way where it's more um, Ihad a, I went to a conference,
pelvicon last year and uh, yousee, one of the speakers yes,
yes, one of the speakers.
Speakers yes, yes, one of thespeakers.
I loved her analogy.
Can we talk about sexuality asa pizza Like hey, I like thin
(32:52):
crust.
Um, I like peppers and onions.
Oh, you don't like onions?
Okay, let's not include those.
Let's add this Uh, and justcreating more of this uh visual,
this visual of a pizza or abuffet style, versus kind of the
way we've we've looked at it asa society and the way it's
(33:13):
portrayed in movies and TV showsand in our culture is is the
this sort of gold standard.
Penetration is what we want.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Right, if, if you know, back pain wasn't reason
enough, guys, right, if you knowback pain wasn't reason enough,
guys.
But yeah, I mean I appreciatelike talking with you about this
stuff because these are topicsthat are important and yet it is
even for me when I talk.
I talk about women's health andvarious female organs and stuff
(33:46):
all day long, but this is stilla kind of an uncomfortable
topic.
I'm like struggling with mydiscomfort on talking about
these things.
So one of the things that Ireally like and admire about you
is just how not uncomfortableyou are about talking about this
stuff.
It's like, you know, it's justlike every day.
It's like how I am with talkingabout poop.
You know you're just like oh,yeah, and then da, da, yeah, and
then, and I just I love that, Iadmire that.
(34:08):
I think we should, we reallyshould all be like that, but for
whatever reason, for manyreasons, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, I tell my clients that all the time I'm
like, I acknowledge that this isnot your daily norm and that
it's my daily norm, like this iswhat I talk about all day long
but it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
it shouldn't be embarrassing or taboo to kind of
get help for for this stuff.
And, um, if I could hammer homeanything to my PCOS clients, it
would be explore this,especially if you have pain,
especially if you deal with,like, hip and back pain, if you
(34:52):
deal with adrenal dysfunction,constipation, constipation
that's another reason.
Yeah, there's just.
It can be very, very supportive, even if from the outset it
doesn't seem like it would betotally connected.
It can actually be one of thebest things that you ever do for
yourself, and that definitelyhas been my experience.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So um, yeah, oh yeah, Even from a wellness standpoint
, if you're not having glaringsymptoms.
I I love when people come injust to check on their pelvic
floor.
Yes, like how are things goingand and having a practitioner or
provider that can ask, maybe,questions where you're like, oh,
(35:37):
I didn't think about it in thatway.
Um, my hope is that one daypelvic floor evaluations and
assessments are just like aroutine norm.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, um for us assessment was so fun.
I love assessments Honestly, Ireally do.
I just like it's fun to getassessed.
It was cool to kind of like geta little like oh, this is
what's going on with you, andlike this is where it's
happening and this is what'sconnected, like, yeah, and I did
learn some stuff that I neverwould have known otherwise or
(36:09):
even thought to have asked.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
So I feel like most of my clients feel that way.
You know, it's a little bitnerve wracking going in,
especially if so I don't alwaysdo an internal pelvic floor
muscle assessment for peopleright off the bat.
There's so many factors likehow is your nervous system, what
is your past experience?
Like, how comfortable are youwith a pelvic floor muscle
(36:33):
assessment?
Um, you know, are you sexuallyactive, all those sorts of
things, and so I don't always doan internal pelvic floor
assessment.
But if I do, um, I find most ofmy clients leave feeling a
little bit more in tune withtheir body, having a little bit
more awareness on what is goingon in their body, and I think
(36:55):
that's really empowering to knowand understand your body more
and to have somebody thatactually takes the time to show
you what they're doing, whythey're doing it, how it
connects to you as a person.
And so you know, obviously notall pelvic health practitioners
are created equally, so findingsomebody that's going to really
(37:17):
take the time to teach you um,make you under, you know, help
you to understand what's goingon.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And then also somebody that's going to, yes,
work in your pelvic floor butalso work outside your pelvic
floor yeah, work outside yourpelvic floor, yeah absolutely, I
totally agree, and you, youwork quite a bit with survivors
of sexual trauma as well, right,so for anyone, cause you know
that a lot of us, a lot of uswomen have have dealt with that
at some point.
So, um, you know, I knowanything related to being around
(37:48):
the pelvis can be very scary ifyou've ever gone through any of
that, or very nerve wracking.
But tell us how you handlethose kinds of situations.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, a trauma informed practitioner, I think
is very important, especiallyaround this area, and so making
sure that your provider isreally listening to you.
I always ask for not onlyverbal consent when I do
assessments, it's actually everytime I do it.
I have, I have a routine that Igo through, that I do because
(38:18):
I've always said from thebeginning, when I started this,
I never want to be the provider.
That's just.
This is what I do all day,every day, and I I don't
acknowledge that there's aperson attached to this pelvic
floor, and so I always ask,explain what I'm going to do,
why I'm going to do it, um, andthen ask for verbal consent as
(38:38):
well, as I tell my patients allthe time I want a verbal, yes,
but I also want a nervous system, yes.
You know, looking at visual cuesof what is.
What are facial expressionsdoing?
How is somebody feeling Are?
Are they clenched and tight?
You know how many providers arelike, oh, let me check out
what's going on.
Like you have to read nervoussystem cues as well.
(39:01):
So that is something that wealways do in our practice is
make sure that our patients feelseen, heard and that and that
we're listening beyond just thewords that are coming out of
your mouth as a verbal yes.
Another thing sometimes thatI'll do is, instead of just
saying I'm going to do this, Iask like let me know when I can
(39:25):
place my hand.
So then that way, it actuallyrequires a okay, I'm ready,
versus this is just what I'mgoing to do.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah, it's very.
If you're nervous about it, Ican assure you it is very
different than going to theOBGYN.
It's like there's no speculum,it's not like done all right,
it's not like getting an IUDinsertion guys.
So, um no, we, we always, youknow, we laugh because, uh, I've
(39:54):
been seeing Holly for a coupleof years now and the you know,
the consent conversation stillgoes on right.
Obviously I'm there, I consent,but she, she's so careful about
that and I really reallyappreciate that.
And especially if you have ahistory of any kind of sexual
trauma, that kind of thing isreally really helpful to keep
you kind of calm, because it's ascary thing.
(40:16):
I mean, even without that, it'skind of like an awkward, scary
thing to go to a pelvic floortherapist, especially for the
first time.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
So yeah, oh, yes, oh yes.
And so I always encouragepeople like, again, this is what
we do all day, every day, likeI always tell people it's my
daily norm, but I'm havingsomebody who's really going to
take the time to walk youthrough things and that, yeah,
you want somebody that's goingto ask those consent questions
(40:46):
as well as read the nervoussystem Right.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Read the room on that one and Holly is a great room
reader and, guys, if you likeHolly, I will tell you that she
is starting her own podcast.
What's it going to be called?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
The Lotus Pod, the Lotus Pod, the Lotus Pod.
What's?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
it gonna be called the lotus pod, the lotus pod.
The lotus pod.
Holly is actually was the maininspiration for me getting this
new microphone, so you guys canthank holly for the better
quality of sound on this herepodcast.
Um, so she is starting apodcast with another uh, public
floor therapist and uh, what areyou guys going to be talking
(41:28):
about?
Speaker 2 (41:29):
We plan to talk about all things pelvic health,
women's health, theuncomfortable conversations that
people feel like they can't askabout or can't seek information
about.
We just want to spreadawareness, normalize this
conversation again, that you arenormal and that there are
people out there that can helpyou.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, it's going to be really, really good.
I I'm excited for it, and so if, by the time this podcast goes
live, if the if her podcast isup, I will definitely link to it
.
Go follow it.
Um, follow her on social media.
Where can they find you?
Holly Lotus rehab, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
So search that on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook,
all the platforms.
Do you have a Tik TOK?
I do have a Tik TOK.
A few videos on there.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Um YouTube.
No, I'm just kidding Um well,not well, not yet.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Not yet.
We'll do a youtube.
She's getting there.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
When we do the podcast, we'll plan to also do
some youtubes on there and youknow, if you need a pelvic floor
therapy and you're in the sanantonio area, seek out her
practice, because her and all ofthe people that she works with
are fabulous.
So, um, and you might see methere sitting in the waiting
room usually knitting um, yeah,but thank you so much for being
(42:55):
here, holly.
What a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
If you guys have any follow-up questions.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
For holly, I'm gonna try to convince her to come on
the podcast again.
We'll see see if she does it.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
But I would be happy to.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh, she would love to , so send send any follow-up
questions, please, please.
Hey guys, I'm back in theediting room and this was such a
fantastic conversation.
I hope you really enjoyed it.
I love talking to Holly.
As you can probably tell,whenever I talk to somebody that
I admire greatly, I get alittle starstruck and I tend to
(43:30):
not be quite as articulate, Ithink.
So I had to do a lot of editingon this one.
There were probably a lot ofslightly annoying little cuts,
and it was mostly because I wascutting out myself, saying the
word like about 100,000 times,and so hopefully it sounded
really nice to you.
But as I've been sitting herefor a couple hours and I am
(43:52):
quite frustrated with myself, soI just wanted to, you know, let
you guys know that Holly isdefinitely willing to come back
on the podcast.
If you have questions, pleasedo submit them.
And the other thing I wanted tosay before I close up is that,
starting May 22nd, I'm going tobe running another round of my
(44:15):
group program that I run withHannah Mule, who is you probably
know her as the ConsciousNutritionist.
Her and I run this groupprogram called PCOS Essentials
Academy.
It's a four-week small groupprogram.
We usually have less than 30people enrolled.
And then, on the callsthemselves, a lot of people
(44:37):
can't make the actual callsbecause they work during those
times or they live in othercountries or what have you, and
so the calls tend to be prettysmall groups, anywhere from like
five to 10 people maybe, and soit's a great opportunity to
kind of work almost one-on-onewith her and I and get your
(44:58):
specific questions about yourPCOS answered.
It's probably the mostbudget-friendly offering that I
have, besides just takingself-paced courses, so it's a
really, really good opportunity.
We only run it a couple times ayear and we haven't run one
since late last year, so if youwant to potentially get some
(45:20):
information about that or signup to join us, you can join my
email newsletter and I will putthat link in the description box
and just follow through onthere, and then I will be
sending out information.
As I have it, I'm actually goingto be working on getting the
(45:40):
website for the new groupprogram up today, so hopefully I
will have a link for you guys.
Anyway, I would love to see you.
I'd love to get to meet you.
I always really, really enjoymeeting podcast listeners during
these programs because, yeah, Idon't get to actually talk to
(46:02):
you guys face to face, so it'skind of really nice to get to
know you and your personalitiesand help you with your PCOS
journey.
So thank you for listeningtoday and I'll see you guys,
hopefully next week.
Bye.
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