Is Your Communication Worthy of Your Message?

Communication is something we do every day. But why does communication matter, and why should we try to do it well? Rick Rhodes describes how this should inform our churches and the way we present the message God has given us, while also giving many practical tips for learning to communicate better.

Rick Rhodes’ communication conference:

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Remember, as a communicator,your job is to deliver a message.
It's about the message, it’snot about you.
This isn't about me.
And that takes the focus off yourself.
So to me, that's just foundational.
Rick Rhodes.
So you have spent decades, in ministry,teaching things like that.

(00:25):
You, lived in Grenadafor a while on the mission field
you were at IGO in Thailandfor a number of years.
You're back in the Statesnow, and you run a conference,
among many other things that you doin life on good
communication skillsor developing our communication skills.
This is a huge topic,and I'm sure we won't cover everything,

(00:46):
but I want to hit at least
some of the fundamental principles of thisand why it matters.
So let's just jump right inand I'll start with the first question of
why does it matter?
Like why should we careabout good communication?
And I guess convince mebecause some people are like,
oh, that's not really that big a deal.Okay.
Well, I believe the greater

(01:07):
the value of a message,the greater the need to deliver well.
The greater
the value of the message,the greater the need to deliver well.
So for anybody out there
who does any type of communication,
how important is your message?
If if you're in business,it's not always the best business

(01:29):
or the best product that gets the jobor that has the most sales,
it's usually the one that's been presentedthe best.
Okay.
So if you're in business,and you have a message to get out there
and you're trying to sell products orwhatever it may be, your message matters.
It's your livelihood. Okay.
If you're a team leader, you lead a team.

(01:51):
Communication matters that you can do thatwell.
It's got to happen, if you're in ministry.
And for those of us in ministry.
And what we do is
present the word of God,whether we're teaching, discipling,
or evangelism, obviouslywe know that that message matters.
So the
greater the value the message, the greaterthe need to deliver well.

(02:13):
If we've been given a very importantmessage, we want to deliver it well.
So that's why good communication matters.
So in that case where do people startdeveloping these skills.
I call it a skillbecause I think it's something
that can be developedand honed and improved.
Well maybe first you should convince usthough that it can because some people

(02:34):
you hear statements like,
I'm a terrible public speaker,I just I'm no good at this.
I can't write well, I can't whatever.
They make these definitive statementsabout their abilities.
Is this somethingthat can be improved and.
Yeah.
You want to look at it as any other skill.
So, you know, if you're in construction,

(02:56):
you don't say, well,
I wasn't born with this skill,so I can't do it.
Anybody that does well in construction,they learned, is a learned skill.
Some people may be gifted indifferent areas, but good communication.
It's a skill that you can learn.
So to say I check out of this one,you know,
because I wasn't born with this gift.

(03:17):
No, it's a skill that you learn.
So it is something that you can learn.
It is something that you can develop.
And so all of us can do it, and all of usdo a measure of communicating somewhere.
In fact,
what I like to tell people when we'rewe're doing our communication conference
and we get to the stage presence,we do one, one session on, on delivery.

(03:39):
And you talk about, you know,what do we do with our hands,
what you do with,you know, where you're at.
When do you stay behind a podiumwhen you move in this type of thing?
I said during break,
I'm looking
at 50 communicators who aren't tryingto figure out where to put their hands.
They're not trying to figure outhow do I stand?
Like everybody's being themself
and so, so in a sense, we get it.

(04:00):
We know how to communicate.
What happens is when we get on a stageor we get to a we're performing,
or whether it's in sales in a meeting,all of a sudden
we think we got to be somebody differentor do something different.
But no, you're to be yourself, in linewith the message.
So again, communicationis something that you can learn.
And for myself, you know,I started with, with just reading books.

(04:24):
So I read a lot of,a lot of books by different authors.
And it's goodto read from different perspectives.
You know, so I
read a wide range of communicating books.
And what I found wasthese authors would have their,
their grid that they go through to developtheir message or their speaking.

(04:45):
And there are some that I like,some that I didn't like.
Some of that felt really clunkyand I didn't like that.
But what I found a common theme.
And this is what you want to lookfor as you as you study
things, is look for a common themecoming from different perspectives.
And the commontheme is the greatest need in
communication is a crystal clear focus.
You need a clear focus.

(05:06):
Okay, So like those timeswhen we've heard a sermon
that has 12 different pointsto remember at the end,
is that an example of whoa,too many things to focus on?
Is that what you mean,or am I taking this down the wrong stream?
that definitely is.
Yeah. Is in this line.
So you listen to a sermon with 12 pointstwo days later.
How many of those points do you remember?

(05:29):
Well, that'skind of always been my challenge.
Like, right,if there's too many pieces involved,
it's like, I don't know if I can rememberthis, you know?
So as a communicator,what we've got to ask ourselves is,
can I give a message,
develop it, and then package the delivery
in a waythat my audience will remember it?

(05:50):
That's what we've got to do.
If I give a message and two days later,
nobody can remember what I've said.
I've wasted their time and I've wastedall the time I put into it.
Like, what was the point?
If if I'm speaking to somebody
and all I'm going to do is.

(06:12):
Keep them entertainedor they're listening, filling their time
for 45 minutes or whatever it may be.
And if they're not gonna rememberany of it, like something's
wrong with that.
And the responsibility ofthat is on the communicator.
So what I need to do as a communicatoris when I have an opportunity to speak,

(06:35):
I need to say, okay,
I've need to study, develop it well,
and then say, okay,how can I package this message and deliver
in a way that they'll understand itand they'll remember it.
And when we do that, to me
that's being a good stewardof our opportunities.
So, so yeah, when that whole thingof a crystal clear focus,

(06:59):
some, some I've heard people say this,you know, I just have.
I want everybodyto be able to get something.
And I have a wide.
I have a wide range in this audience.
So, you know, so I'm just,you know, a little bit of this, this
kind of like a buckshot,you know, when you're hunting.
And it's about as successfulas using buckshot to shoot an elk,
you know, the thing's going to run offand be stung a little bit,

(07:20):
but you're not going to get to the gamewhen when you speak and you have all these
different points, what happensis everybody remembers very little,
but you want a crystal clear focus.
So that's in inas I read from different communicators,
that came clear to me.
Okay. It's a clear focus.We need clear focus.
So I did a lot of reading books, then,

(07:42):
bought a DVD seriesthat had a, from a training conference
and went through that, so,so that was good.
But there was somethingthat I was missing, so I knew I enjoyed
communicating.
I knew that'swhat God had called me to do.
And so a lot of my work was involved inthat, in teaching and, and then preaching.
But what I lacked

(08:03):
was personal coaching in this.
And interesting what you know,I don't get that from a book.
I don't get that from a DVD.
And what can happen iswe don't realize how we're coming across
until somebody who knows communication
listens to us, watches us,and then speaks into it.

(08:25):
So, back in 2013, when our family was,living in Thailand, yet
we were in the States for a one yearfurlough.
One of my goals was to go toa, communicating conference.
And so I did went to that conference.
I think I paid $2,100 to go
to this conference to fly out to Colorado,where this was went to this conference.
I had already read theThe Communicators book.

(08:47):
I already had this DVD series.
So I didn't learn anythingnew through the sessions like I,
because I'd been through it all.
I devoured it all.
But what I wanted to getwas that individual coaching.
And at this conference,
you you were part of a speech groupand you had a speech coach.
So there are eight people in my speechgroup, and there's a speech coach,
and that's what I knew I needed.

(09:08):
I need a speech coachto listen to me speak
and to speak into my communication skillsafter my first speech.
And so you're given five minutesto present a speech.
After my first speech,
my speech coach said this.
Your voice is way too intense.
It makes it hard to listen to you.

(09:29):
Nobody ever told me that.
And then he went on to explain.
He said, what you need to dois just speak in,
in your optimal, your normal voice.
And then when your message is intense,then be intense.
But for short periods of timewhen you're always intense,
you become hard to listen to.

(09:49):
It's like,okay, I had 2 more speeches to give
so I could work on that and,you know, point out a few other things.
That honestly is the only thing I remember
from that conference
is you’re to intense.
It was worth my $2,100to have somebody tell me that
I went back home, and two monthsbefore the conference,

(10:13):
I just was the evangelist at a big, areawide tent meeting out in Holmes County.
And had preached,
I think,ten, 12 sermons in these tent meetings.
They recorded these, put them on, on CDs,and then they gave me a set
when it was done. I'm not sure why.
Maybe they said, you know,
have some of your own medicine,listen to your preaching. What?
I don't know, but, you know,they gave me a copy when I got back from,

(10:36):
from this communication conference.
Oh. I'm going to listen to myself speak,
put one of these in my CD playerand listen to it.
And the first thing that jumped out of meis how intense my voice was.
And it didn't let up, like,I was just intense.
And I was like, my coach was so right.
This is hard to listen to.

(10:58):
I shut it off and I never listenedto another one of my those CDs.
It's like it hurt.
I'm like, oh no, what did I putall these people through? And,
so I say that to say,
if we're going to develop ourselvesas communicators,
we got to have feedback into saying, look,this is how you're coming across.

(11:18):
Because in our minds, we can think,this is what I said,
and this is what I meant,and this is how I said it.
But the true gauge is,what did your audience hear you say?
How did they hear you say it?
And when you think about it,as communicators,
there's very few placeswhere you get that.

(11:39):
So if you're a team leader at a business
and you lead in communicatingto your staff,
who in your staff is going to come to youafter the meeting and say, you know,
this is how you're coming acrossor this is this is a weakness.
This is a distraction.
They don't really want to do that.
Then if you're in ministry,you know, you're preaching a sermon.

(11:59):
Who afterwards is going to say,
you know, that was good,but there's some things
that were distracting me or this is or,you know,
you had a great sermon,but there was no application.
I don't know what to do with it.
What happens is we have almost no place
to get personal feedbackinto our communication.

(12:19):
Therefore, I'll continue in my bad habit
of being intense all the timeunless somebody says it.
So that's where to develop yourself. You.
You want to read,you want to watch. Good communicators.
I've done that. You you learn from these,
but you need feedbackinto how you're coming across.
And, I got that at that conference fromthe coach speaking directly into that.

(12:44):
And you can seek it,as you know, from your audience.
So if you are teaching SundaySchool class,
outside of the class, you can go tosomebody that you know and trust
and that somebody that would trustyou and say, can you tell me
how am I coming across, you know,what are some things that I could work on?
And you can give people permissionto give that to you?

(13:05):
You know,
as, as a preacher, you can do that.
But you've got to be you've got to bewilling to take it or you'll shut it down.
They won't give it again.
And and honestly, as a communicator,we really want to do it well,
like I do want.
And I believe everybodywe want our audience to understand it.
We want them to get it.

(13:25):
We don't want to haveroadblocks in the way.
So how do we get there?
We get there by understandingwhat is effective communication.
And then how can I deliver in a waythat I'm not a distraction to the message?
Yeah.
That that's really helpfulbecause you know
you could go on like Amazon right nowor something and type in communication

(13:46):
books or something
and get like I don't know,500 million results or something insane.
And some of those are very helpful.Some of them are very good.
I've read different ones and whatever.
Or you can watch good communicators.
It feels like you would tap outat at a certain level though.
Yeah. Of
improvement.
If you don't have that active feedback.
Right.
You're saying to get that feedback

(14:09):
you basically just have to ask for itthen, right?
for the most part.
Now, being a dad,
after I preach,I can get some honest feedback
without asking for it, and it's great.
Driving home from churchnot that long ago, and I preached that
morning and, my one said, said

(14:29):
the PowerPoint.
Dad, that picture was terrible.
Like you never should have used.
It just looked unprofessional, like, okay,so let me, you know, plug into it.
I thought it was a great exampleof what I was going to use.
You know, I earlier this past summer,I preached one
and one of my boys said, dad, you weren'treally on your A-game on that one.
Like,
and sometimes,

(14:51):
you know, what we could dois become defensive when people give it.
Or you can be curious and say,so why do you say that?
What were you thinking? Okay. Yeah.
It's good for me to hear those thing.
So apart from some of that,you can get it in-house.
Where do you get.
Where do you get that feedback?
And that's where.

(15:11):
That's where being at a conferencewhere you will speak to a group
that they know their job is to listen toyou and then to give that feedback
that's really helpful.
And you're not going to get that ina book.
You're not going to get thatjust by watching good communicators.
So that's where you can takeyour communication on to another
level is okay, I get feedbacknow I'm going to work on these things. So

(15:34):
so one option might be
having some kind of structured practiceor something like you could even
get a group togetherand say we're going to let's practice and
and take notes on each other or something.
It seems to me though, to do thiswell, you'd have to be very vulnerable
and very humble. Yeah, yeah. For sure.
So, let me let me say a couple thingswith that.

(15:55):
Out of having beento a communication conference
that, Darryl Weaver went with me.
We were missionaries together in Grenada.
Had kind of stayed in touch.
And then during that furlough,I was teaching school at the school
where he was a principal,and I wanted to go to this conference.
And so I said, hey, Darryl,would you go with me?
We went there together,and it was really good.

(16:15):
But we knew that
most of our Anabaptist people
wouldn't come to this conference,wouldn't be very comfortable with it.
And there were some things that we wereglad were there together.
And it's like,
and yet as we looked around in our,in our Anabaptist circles,
we weren't offering this,
in fact, I think the only opportunitiesthere are is maybe at Faith

(16:38):
builders, you'll get a class, a two weekclass, and a winter term.
Or maybe at SMBI you could take a term.
Or maybe in high schoolyou got a little bit.
But to get in-depth teaching andthen coaching, like where do we get that?
And so out of seeing that,that lack of, of
of opportunitythat need in our conservative

(16:59):
Baptist circles, Darrell Weaverand I set to work together and developed
the Impact Communication conferencewhere we we do this,
threeand a half day training on communication.
Everybody's in a speech groupwhere they get that feedback
and that enables youto get that honest feedback.
And while you can set up your own group

(17:22):
and do this and we encourage people to gofrom the conference to do this, you know,
a couple of your friends were hereor your whole leadership team was here.
Your work team was here.
What you've learned now,you help each other
but if you're going to try doing thatcompletely
on your own, like,what are you looking for?
You've got to understandgood communication.
You got to have a basis to go on beforeyou can start.

(17:43):
So, so what we should dohere is just underline
what is effective communication.
yeah. So yeah.
Which,which was where I was going to go with
that is could you give ussome fundamental principles I suppose. Or
yeah.
Principles at the base of effectivecommunication.

(18:03):
And I would assume we could apply this tonot just public speaking, maybe writing,
whatever the case may be, but yeah,give us some of those principles.
So, so this is to me this is foundational.
Effective communicationis always going to do three things for us.
The first thing we're going to connectas a communicator
effective communication happenif I connect with my audience,

(18:27):
if I condense my message,
it's not this dump load of information.
12 points said, you know, on whateverit may be in two days, I won't forget it.
No, that's not being effective.
So I'm going to condense my message.
And then thirdly,I'm going to compel to action.
So three C's of effective communicationconnect condense compel

(18:51):
connectmeans you've got to know your audience.
Who am I speaking to?
Know your people condense.
You got to know your point.
Why am I talking this morning?
Why this meeting?
Why this sermon?
What's my point?
So to condense,you got to know your point.
Then everything points at that.

(19:13):
Okay, then to compel,you know, your purpose.
Why do they need to hear this?
Okay.
And to compel
it, it takes away the,
this idea that we can just haveinformational meetings
or informational, you know, times,sometimes we'll call them that.

(19:34):
Maybe a business or church.
We have an informational meeting.
If you're having a meeting,and it's simply to give them information,
but you do not want them to do anythingabout it.
Cancel those meetings.Let people have an evening at home.
You know, if you're a business.
We have an informational meetingfor all our staff.
Let them stay at work. Okay.
But we get some resistance like,no, no, no, they need this information.

(19:57):
They need the data.They need to see the figures. Okay. Why?
There's a reason you want them to knowthe information.
So figure that outand then compel them to the action.
Yeah, that makes sense because then you.
Yeah. Communicating without a why.
That's just seems like that.
That's confusion Yes for sure for sure.
So let me

(20:17):
where I get the connect convince compel.
Straight out scripture.
God's a great communicator and Scriptureis full of great communicators.
So here's one for us.
If I were to ask you, Reagan,
who is known as a man afterGod's own heart, who who comes to mind?
David. Right.
So that's what we know, right?

(20:39):
There was a time in David's life
when a man after God's own heartwould have not been a title for him.
After his sin with Bathsheba.
He was an adulterer.
He was a murderer.
He had her husband, Uriah the Hittite,who was one of his top 30 men.
He had him killed in battleto cover what he'd done.

(21:02):
And then so he could marry Bathsheba.
So he's a adulterer, a murdererand a liar.
And he's just actinglike everything's okay
and it's not okay.
What's going to changethe course of David's life?
You know what
pushes me to keep going as a communicator,

(21:23):
is God's not coming down here himselfto do the work.
He's not sending his angels to dothe work.
He's using usas human beings to be the messengers.
So I want to do it well.
God needs somebody to go to David
and say, David, you've sinned.

(21:45):
Who's going to do that?
Nathan the prophet.
Nathan comes to David
knowing that
he's he'sthe most powerful ruler in the country.
He's just killed one of his best mento cover his sin.
And Nathan is going to come in and say,you have sinned.
What's going to keep David from saying,I don't want to hear that from you?

(22:08):
I'm throwing you in prison.
I'm taking your head off. Whatever.
Like that's a pretty high stakesmessage, right?
When you look at that story,it's easy to say
that was probably a five minute speech
that Nathan gave to David.
Look at what Nathan didin that five minutes.

(22:30):
And we're going to see the connectcondense compel.
Nathan comes to David.
And so he's going to confront himabout his sin.
He comes in and he says, David,
he said there oncetwo guys, two men, lived in a city.
One is wealthy.
He has flocks of sheep, one very poor.
He doesn't have flocks.
He doesn't have a flock.

(22:50):
He has one ewe lamb.
It was the only one he had.
So it stayed in his houseit ate from his table, slept in his bosom
like I don't know
what all that,but it's very poor, special lamb.
Nathan then says, the rich manwho has the flocks of sheep
has a guest come from afar,and so he wants to treat him well.

(23:14):
And rather than take one of his many sheepand serve it to this guest,
he goes to his poor neighbor,he steals his only lamb
and offers that for a gift for his friend.
David interrupts this storyand he's angry.
It's touched his heart.
His emotions are involved.
He says that man should die for this.

(23:37):
And then Nathan says, David,
you're the man.
And when Nathan is done speaking to David,
David's no longer angry.
He's no longer trying to cover his sin.
David's response is, I've sinned.

(23:58):
And Psalm 51 create in mea clean heart o God.
It comes out of David hearing
Nathan deliver a very important message,and he delivered it well.
So why did David receive that?
Look what Nathan did.He connected with him.
Okay. How did he connect with him?

(24:18):
He used a story.
Jesus use stories.
So that's always a great way to connectso we can learn from that.
But his story used sheep.
David's a shepherd, David, so he gets it.
Okay, so when when Nathan was preparing
for this five minutes with the king,who's he thinking about?
He's thinking about his audience.
Always important as a communicator.

(24:39):
Our focus is always about the audience.
What do they need to hear? It's not.
What do I want to tell them?
It's what do they need to hear?
Okay, so.
So he's thinking about David.
David grew up a shepherd boy.
David grew up poor.
David would connectwith a pet little lamb.
David's very wealthy now he's the king.

(24:59):
He connects with having lots.
He connected.
Nathan connectedwith David through this story.
Okay, that's the first part of effect.
Communication is where you connect.
When you connect with your audience.
Okay, I get it.
There's buy in there. Okay.
So he connected to connect.
Know your people.
Who am I talking to? Nathan did that.

(25:20):
Secondly, condense.
How many
points was Nathan bringing to Davidthat day?
Like he could have talked to him about,about his leadership as a king.
He could talk to him about being a father.
You know, you got one kid run aroundthat's a rebel.
He's probably gonna overthrow you someday,you know, work on your parenting skills.
He could have talkedabout a whole bunch of different things.

(25:41):
No, there's one point todaythat you need to hear.
You've sinned.
He condensed his messageto a crystal clear focus.
And David got it, and he remembered it.
And we as communicators need to do that.
If I've got 12 points that I want to give,
will I remember these 12 pointswithout looking at notes?
If I won't, thenwhy am I going to put that on my audience?

(26:04):
They don't even have my notes.
They haven't had the time to study.That's not even realistic.
Don't waste their time.
Cancel that message or let's condense it.
Do these 12 points.
First of all, are they 12 pointsthat my audience needs to hear?
And if so, then let's take oneand let's develop it well.
Let's teach itwell so that they get it. Okay.
I'm not
saying that a messagecan't have more than one point to it.

(26:27):
It can have multiple points that areall pointing to the point of the message.
That's the key.
So Nathan condensed his message to David.
You're the man. You’ve sinned. Okay?
So he condensed it to that andthen it wasn't an informational meeting.
Okay.

(26:48):
You know, when he was done, David didn’tlook at him and say, that's a cool story.
Thanks, man.
Like, what do I do with this? No.
What did he say?
I've sinned.
He was compelled to action.
He knew what he needed to do.
He needed to repent.
And when we communicate, we're never

(27:08):
communicatingjust for the sake of communicating.
There's a reason to it.
Why am I having this meeting? Why?
Why am I, meeting with this customer?
Why am I speaking to this class?
Why to this congregation?
And I want to compel them to action.
So we've all probably sat under

(27:32):
under a message or teaching wherewe've come away saying that
that was really good, but I don't know,what am I supposed to do with this?
And as a communicator,it's our responsibility to say, okay,
I'm not just going to tell you,
here's truth.
Here's something good for you toto think about.
What do you do with this?
I'm going to say, here'swhat here's how you apply this.

(27:54):
In fact,
we see that with Nathan in this one.
Let me give an illustration.
And this is from Jesus,the master teacher.
Jesus was asked a question.
One day,a teacher of the law came to him and said,
master,what do I need to do to get eternal life?

(28:14):
And Jesus, knowing his people,
the people that he's speaking to,you knowing his audience,
he said, well, you know,the reading of the law, what's it say?
You know,
said, well, you know, you love Lordto God through your whole heart,
soul, mind, strength,love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus said, you've answered,well, do that, and you live
and then it says thatthis teacher of the law

(28:37):
saying, wanting to justify himself,says, well, who's my neighbor?
So here's the question.
And what is Jesus, the master teachercommunicator?
What does he do?
He could have said, well, your neighbor
is anybody you come in contact with,
End of discussion,end of teaching session.
How many people would remember that?

(28:58):
Not very many.
You know how Jesus answered that question.
And who's my neighbor?
He answered it with a story.
The story
is what all of us knowas the Good Samaritan.
Jesus tells this story
in a way that connected with his audience.
They get it.

(29:19):
He lists places. It's a real place.
Pass from, Jerusalem to Jericho.
They've traveled that road, fellamong the thieves.
They probably pictured the,you know, the place where that can happen
or, you know, on these roads, whateverfell among the thieves, a priest comes by.
They know who a priest is.
So he's using a storythat his audience connects with.
Okay, a priest goes by,priest is a good guy.

(29:39):
Sees the man lying there half dead.
Passes by on the other side.
Well, that's not very nice.
How does this answer the question?
Who's my neighbor?
You got curiosity in your audience.
That's a good thing.
You want, you want.There's going to be some tension.
Like why is he saying this?
Or how does this apply? So Jesus has that.
Okay. The priest, he went by over thereokay.

(30:00):
Next a Levite comesby, sees the man in the ditch,
half dead, passes by this side,and they're like a Levite.
That's a good guy.
Not really. Like.
So what Jesus doing a priest Levite,good guys.
they’re the bad guys in the story.
Jesus says, then a Samaritan come byand I can almost hear these guys groaning
like, oh, brother, that they hatedthe Samaritans, the other bad guys.

(30:21):
We don't like them.
Jesus is probably gonna make the Samaritanbe the good guy. And he does.
The Samaritan comes by,he sees the guy there.
He gets off his donkey.
He bandaged his wounds.He puts him on the donkey.
He takes him to an inn,says here, take care of him.
I'm paying the bill.
And if there's more out,I check back and I'll take care of it.
When Jesus done,he turns back to this lawyer
teacher of the lawwho's asked this question.

(30:42):
And he said, So, who was neighbor tohim that fell among thieves?
Now the man asking that question.
And that audience did not go.
I know it was the Good Samaritan.
You could call the storythe story of the Good Samaritan.
Not at all. You know what he did?
He wouldn't even say the wordshe just said.

(31:03):
The one that showed mercy on him.
But he got it. He got the point.
And then Jesus said, go and do likewise.
He compelled him to action.
So in that story that we have there,what did Jesus do?
He connected.
He connected with them through a storythat they understood.
They understood the place.They understood the people. He connected.
He condensed it.

(31:23):
How many topics could Jesus preached tothe to the religious leaders of that day?
You know, he could have hammereda whole lot of things.
The pride in your heartthat's why you look down.
No, no, no, no.
Your neighbor is
anybody come in contact, go and do likehe condensed it to one point.
He compelled him to go and do likewise.
So to me, good communicationwill always do those three things.

(31:47):
I'm going to connect, I'mgoing to condense,
and I'm going to compel that to meas effective communication.
that's incredible.
I've never thought of that storywith Nathan the prophet and David.
That is powerful right.
Like how he connected with Davidin that way.
It just it makes so much sensewhen you describe it like that.

(32:08):
Yeah.
to me,you look at how pivotal that moment was
and and here's to me, this is whyI want to grow myself as a communicator.
How many lives
am I going to come in contact with?
That it is a pivotal moment.

(32:30):
And if I
deliver, well, a messagethey need to hear that
it could be a good moment in their life.
What if Nathan would have done this?
Okay. God.
You want me to go talk to David?
He's committed adultery.
Murder, and he's lied.
You just got to tell me what to speak,okay?

(32:52):
Nowadays, like, okay,I'll just rely on the Holy Spirit.
I don't know if I would have said that,but we'll just do that, okay?
I'm just to rely on Holy Spirit.I'm going to go.
So he comes in to David.
Well, David,
you've sinned.
I don't think it would have went over.
When I look at that story
he prepared,he thought about who am I speaking to.
What does he need to hear.

(33:13):
Why does he need to hear it.
He answered those questions.
He prepared well for that.
And when he went in there he delivered it.
Well. And when he was done
David didn't say, wow, Nathan,you are an amazing storyteller.
Not at all.
This is one of the misconceptionsthat people have

(33:33):
in getting trained for communication.
If you become good at it,you'll get proud.
Okay, the goalin growing yourself as a communicator
is so that you're not a distractionto the message.
To me, the highest complimentI can receive as a communicator

(33:53):
is for people to say, I was so taken inby the message, I didn't think about you.
I don't want people to think about me.
I don't want to be a distraction.
Nathan gave that message
in a way that David connected with it.
He understood it, and in the end it wasn’tlike, wow, Nathan, you're really good.

(34:14):
I have, you know, have you come back instory time with Nathan?
No, it wasn't anything about that.
The message hit home.
You want to grow your selfas a communicator?
Not so. People say.
Wow, but so people get the message comesback to this foundational belief I have.
The greater the value of the message,the greater the need to deliver well.
So for Nathan to say, well,I'll just rely on God, he's gotta lead me.

(34:35):
That's being lazy.
Okay, now,I believe we rely on the Holy Spirit
to help us, but to say, I'mnot going to prepare because of that.
There's one time when Scripturegives us permission to do that.
That's when we're brought before kingsand governors for our faith.
And it says, don't study ahead of time.
Don't worryabout what you're going to say.
The Holy Spirit will give you what to sayin that moment
when I'm on trial for my faith,I don't need to sweat it out.

(34:57):
God's going to give me words to speak,
But when I've been asked to teachSunday school,
when I've been asked to preach a sermon,when I've been asked to address
a topic for me to say, well,I'm just going to rely on the Holy Spirit
that is not studying to show myselfto be approved unto God.
That is not being a good stewardof the responsibilities.
I need to work hard in preparing fact.
That's where most of the work of effectivecommunication is.

(35:19):
It's ahead of timeand we need to stop and say this.
It's not do I work hardor do I depend on the Holy Spirit?
I think we do both.
Like where do we get this ideathat depending on the Holy Spirit
means I don't work, and that the only timethe spirit leads is behind the pulpit?
I'm teaching Sunday school

(35:39):
spirit just gonna have to leadbecause I don't have time to study.
That's laziness.
Okay, that showsmy priorities aren't where they should be.
If I've accepted responsibility to teachthis class, I need to put myself into it.
And I want the spirit to lead mewhile I study.
And while I present to seeI don't need to prep.
The Holy Spirit will lead methat saying the study is all our own work.

(35:59):
No amazing things happenwhen we're working hard in the study.
There will be times when we may study
well and we get up to present and God'sSpirit will say, you know what?
That's not the message.I want you to do this.
There'll be some times for that,it can be.
And then you, you followwhat God's Spirit leading to do
but to use

(36:20):
the excuse to be lazy in our preparation.
So the Holy Spirit leads me.
That is not honoring to God.
Nathan didn't do that.
I'm confident of that.
Now, maybe Jesus could do that, right.
He could, you know, come to him.
But none of us can do that. So.
So the whole idea that I don't
I don't need to preparewell because the Holy Spirit lead me.

(36:41):
No, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you.
And he can lead you in your study,and he will lead you up there.
Another question that can come along withthat is so how much notes do you take?
I will yes. Okay. So what. Okay.
To rewind a little bit I think you made a
there's two things
that's sticking out to mewhen Nathan comes to David.
That package that he deliveredso essentially had

(37:04):
an incredible level of potency.
You know,he didn't need a 45 minute sermon, right?
It's like five minutes. Boom.
You know, so you have that andjust want to grab that as it passes by.
Because that really affirmswhat you're saying about the investment
in time to hone that inand make it potent.
The other one is proper
communicationor good communication effective?

(37:27):
Actually lowerslike it's not about you, right?
The person presenting it.
That's kind of a new thought for me.
And I wonder if that has a lot to dowith what people hesitate
with because like, well,I don't want to be proud.
I don't want to be.
It's almost like if I'm too good at this,then then that lifts me up.
And I think you make I think you're makinga really good point there.

(37:49):
I don't know.
And then back to so there's that pieceand then the whole preparing and study
and then of coursethe question about notes,
you know, do you use notes, all of thatanyway, do
you have more responsesto what I just showed there?
So let me go backbefore the notes. Let's come back to that.
But the whole thing of if I do good,you know, people think I'm proud.
Whatever.
We believe

(38:10):
as Anabaptists, we believe that we can do
business really well and not be proud.
We believe that our wives can cook
really good meals, and not be proud.
And we actually,
we want our wives to cookgood meals and stay humble.

(38:30):
What I don't want to dois go home tonight for supper
and come inside.
There's a fog of smoke and my wife pulls,you know, some burnt
offering out of the oven and is like,you know what, honey?
I burnt this one on purposeto stay humble.
Like, don't make us suffer, honey.
Stay humble and keep cooking good, right?
So somehow we had this foundational beliefthat we can do business well,

(38:52):
we can cook well.
We can do these things well and stay.
Stay humble.
Why do we think that if I get goodat communicating, I'll become proud?
I don't think it should be that way.
And I think part of that can come from
is we think about communicationas about the communicator.
And what we need to do is switchthe focus.
It always should be.
Receiver orientedor we need to think is the receiver.

(39:15):
That's what effective communicationthe focus is on the receiver.
It's not about me.
So what do they need to hear?
You know, what's their need?
Why do they need to hear this?
How will this help them?What do they need to do with this?
How can I presentin a way that they get it?
It's all about themand all we are as a communicator.
We're just the messenger.

(39:37):
So our job is just to deliver it.
So all my preparationis thinking about them.
What do they need to hear?None of it's about me.
And so it's getting the focus off of me,which again, is in line with
with being a Christian. It's about God.
I really think that might might beone of the most key pieces
that that you have here.
Because there's if there'sa foundational belief that, oh, what?

(39:59):
You're proud if you're good at this or,oh, I don't want to be in the spotlight
because because, you know, hey,if you're if you're giving a sermon
or a devotional in churchwhen there's a lot of people
looking at you,you know, it's a public thing, right?
And so it oh, he, you know, it gets we getkind of nervous about that and okay.
But maybe we've got the moremaybe misaligned there or mis oriented.
I think you're really on somethingthere that can we not

(40:23):
keeping the focus on what's the message.
And who are the peoplethat need to receive it.
That's, that's that's a really key piece.
I think it's it's in linewith the principles of Scripture.
It's about the message.
It's not about the messenger.
Paul said in Galatians when,when he heard the church
there was was being deceivedby the Judaizers.

(40:44):
He said,it doesn't matter who preaches this,
even if an angel comes, if it's anywhat what matters is the message.
If it's any, then what is truth?
It's wrong.
That's a great point.I never thought of that.
It's about the message.
We as communicators exist for the message.
And when we make that, as I prepare,

(41:07):
I'm thinking about,okay, what's the message?
How can I see in a way,they understand it?
Why do they need this?It's all about them.
We're really not even in the picture.
Our job is just to deliver it.
And we want to deliver in a waythat we're not a distraction.
And when we do it well,
our audience will say, I get it.
It makes sense.

(41:27):
And then God speaks to the heart.
When I don't do itwell, I become a distraction.
See that?
It's this is really resonatingbecause I'm just thinking of like, okay,
a high watermark
for good public speaking is somethinglike Ted talks, for example, right?
And there are some out therethat are just just phenomenal.
And you learn a ton. Right.
And I'm trying to think I'm like, yeah,I've seen some.
And I can tell you what the topic was.

(41:49):
I couldn't tell you who the speaker was,you know, because I'll remember.
Oh man, I rememberI heard this on a Ted talk.
And that idea just was really neatand it was presented super great.
No idea who that guy's name was.
You take your favorite communicators,
the ones that you like to listen to.
And you know why we like them?
Because they deliver well.

(42:11):
If I think of my favorite speakers,I like them.
And I keep going back to to hearing them,I know they deliver.
I get a message.
and so, again, along the line of whywe want to develop ourselves
so we can deliver well, is,
if I go to hear my favorite preacher
and he doesn't give a message

(42:34):
that connects, that makes sense.
There's gonna come a time where, like,
I don't really want to go hear himspeak anymore.
What draws us to any communicatoris the message.
You can take your favorite speaker,your favorite podcast
you listen to or whateverit may be, your favorite communicator.
If they stop delivering a message,you're going to stop listening.

(42:59):
But when we go back to places wherewe know we're going to get a message.
So really, while we may saywe have favorite speakers or authors,
the reason we like them is becausethe message they really are delivering.
you know, like I learned something.
This this actually mattered. Yeah.
Right. Man.
That's that's that's huge, though,because I think I think that is a big
stumbling block for people is like,

(43:20):
oh, I don't want to lift myself up or
like, I don't want to put myself forwardin this way.
And and maybe I'm misconstruing thisor perhaps maybe not misconstruing it,
but we're perceiving ourselvesincorrectly or something, you know?
So yeah, let's,let's hit a few practical things.
So, so back to the notes thing.
I'm curious, you do a lot of publicspeaking, a lot of teaching and things.

(43:41):
Do you use notes?
You have notes right now, but or are youthe kind of person I'm going to wing it?
You know, I, I have gone through
different stages as a young preacher.
There was a
time when I only used three by five cards.
You know, I, I just wanted it to flow.
Okay.
And I preached a few good sermonsfrom only a three by five card,

(44:04):
and I preached some really lousy onesfrom that.
I have, ranged,
in different, different aspects.
To me, it'snot about how many notes you take down.
Now, what I do isI put a lot of notes down.
Okay.
Because it helps you process your messageby putting it down on paper.

(44:26):
So. And, and if you're going to reuse itin the future,
then you have something to go back to.
So I think you should puta lot of notes down
for the first goal is to make sureyou got your thoughts organized.
Okay. So you see it there.
Something happens when it goes.
It goes from here down to the paper.
Something happens within us.

(44:47):
It helps us process, helps us get it.
So, I take a lot of notes.
And then
I make sure that I've gone through themenough that I can internalize it.
And my goal is not to use them,
but I will always take them with me.
Okay.
So, recently preaching at a wedding,

(45:11):
a wedding.
You don't want to be a distractionas the preacher at the wedding, right?
And, yeah.
I had notes,
but I internalize it,so I don't need them.
But I kept them with me, folded themup, tucked them in my pocket,
gave my message, internalize itso I didn't need them.
But if I lose my way,I know they’re right there.

(45:34):
I can get to them.
Okay, so I always take notes with me.
And sometimes I'll need them.
Sometimes not, but I think it's it'sgood to put a lot down on paper.
So if you do lose your way.
I was preaching,and also a wedding, several years ago.
And all of a sudden, my mind just wentblank, and it scared me, like, where am I?

(45:55):
What am I saying here? Like,I lost my place in the sermon.
I was so glad that I had notesthat I could just pause, look back,
okay, get back on track. Okay?
Because that's going to happen to us.
So take a lot of notes,but then internalize it
so that you can connectwith your audience.
There's a difference between memorizing amessage or a speech and internalizing it.

(46:19):
I was at a conference
and, a leadership conference,and they had a number of speakers
throughout the day, and there were a fewthat were really good.
And after the day was done
reflecting back, I'm like,so why were those so impactful?
Why did I really like them?
A few of them weren't really dynamic,

(46:42):
like they pretty much just talkedin their optimal voice the whole time.
They, you know,
they weren't all over the stageor that type of thing,
which sometimes we think goeswith being a good communicator.
No. They
but they reallyit was like it was really good.
And here's as I processthis, here's what every one of those
communicators that reallythat I really got some out of that day.
Here's what they had in common.

(47:02):
All of them had internalizedtheir message.
So throughout their entire presentation,they were connecting
with us as an audience, and they weren'tcontinually in their notes, in the notes.
They were just talking to me.
And it's like, wow, I got it.
So there as a communicator,part of internalizing is writing it down

(47:25):
and then
processing it, so that you can give it
it just comes from the inside outand you can get it.
So back to the note taking question.
I encourage people to take a lot of notes.
So you have it there.
But then you want to internalize it.
and when you internalize it and you canjust stay connected with your audience,
that's the best.

(47:45):
Now, there are times when
maybe we're not able to internalizeit completely as we like.
Will then have your notes there,and have your notes
in a way that you can easilylook down, find your spot.
And and know where you're at ratherthan you've got to look through it.
You're,you're digging around what you're doing.
So the internalizingpiece feels significant. It,

(48:09):
it feels likeif you if you did that properly, whatever
you're presenting will come acrossas very authentic and genuine.
It's like you're not making stuff up.
You're not reading fromfrom a book or something.
You know, it's like, oh,you actually believe this?
You've got like, that's somethingI know that speaker has really got it.
Yeah.
That feels like that in itselfwould add quite a bit of impact.

(48:31):
It does, it does.
And the fact too, that,
I'm looking at you
and I'm, I'm not putting on a
my preacher voice or my professional voiceor I'm not trying to be somebody else.
I'm just being who I am in linewith the message.
When you think about delivery,

(48:53):
and when we teach at Impactcommunication conference,
we have one session out of eight.
We have one on delivery.
And it's
fitting because most of your workas a communicator is beforehand
and in processing, developing, preparing.
And then we do one on deliveryand in delivery.
I'll just give you these realreal quickly.

(49:15):
Two points for delivery.
The Eminem's of delivery
m the message.
The second m, the messenger
and what we need to do as the messenger.
I need to deliver the message
in a way that people get it at.
I the messenger.
Am I presenting the message?
In a way they'll get it.

(49:36):
There'll be some talks I give where I stayright behind the podium.
I stay right my seat.
And I should.
It would be a distraction if I was upon my feet, if I raise my voice.
Okay.
There's there's some messageI give where I come down off the stage
and I'm moving around and I get loudand I, you know, all these type of things

(49:58):
if it's in line with the message.
Okay, so when we think about delivery,I, the messenger,
I need to give itin a way that they get it.
And if I'm not myself,
and if I'm not giving it in linewith the message,
it doesn't feel authentic.
It's like, why is he all of a suddenspeaking in this voice

(50:19):
like I just talked to him beforehand.That's not really him.
It makes people makes people questionthat.
Okay, if I'm tellinga personal illustration and I read it,
people will be like, is that true?
Did that really happen?
All I have to do is pop my head upand just tell them
and they'll get it.
It's like, that really happened.

(50:40):
So when it comes to delivery,
we make sure we're doing in linewith the message
again, always our focus is on the message.
So we've, we've went through some
some critical pieces on the fundamentalsof effective communication.
The why like why it's important.
Answering some of the questions around it.

(51:00):
Will this turn this into, you know,will this turn into pride
or wherewe put the focus on the wrong thing.
I think again, I think you had aI think that was a really key piece.
So very practically,what is one thing people listening to
this can do right nowto improve their communication skills?
You want to understandwhat makes for good communication.
So to do that,

(51:21):
I'm going to give youthe five laws of IMPAC communication.
So now and you can take these laws.
Each of them answers a question.
And this is what you can use toto help yourself understand communication.
So when Daryl and I developedthe impact medication conference
we spelt impact IMPAC no t on the end.

(51:41):
But we do know how to spell.
There's a reason it’s IMPAC okay.
So each one's letter stands for a lawI is inspiration
m motivationP personalization a application
and then C clarificationokay so the law of inspiration it states
an audience is impactedwhen a communicator can build content.

(52:02):
That's your action wordbuilt content that's relevant to them.
Answers a question what do I wantmy audience to know?
That's the law of inspiration.
What do I want my audience to know?
Okay, that's something that you need to,you need to wrestle to.
So what do they need to know?
And again, how you know that?
Who am I speaking to?Am I speaking to one person?

(52:23):
Am I speaking to teenagers?
Am I speaking to a thousand people?
You know, by knowing who your speaking to.
So that's the law of inspiration.
Answer the question,what do I need them to know?
The second law motivation.
That law states an audience is impactedwhen a communicator
can articulate the value of a message.
Answers, why do they need to hear this?

(52:47):
Okay, so why do they need this?
We take law of inspiration,law of motivation
and combine themto make what we call an I-M statement.
So I want my
audience to know answersthe question what?
So that or because that answersthe question why?
And then that guides methrough everything.

(53:08):
I'm giving that presentation.
Everything's in line with that goal.Your inspiration.
What do they need to know? The motivation?
Why do they need to know it?
That's foundational in our communication.
And that works as a preacher, as a teacherin sales, it works in any culture.
It works in any type of communicationthat works.
So that's the law of inspiration,law of motivation.
Then the third law,the law of personalization

(53:30):
that one states an audience is impactedwhen a communicator
can demonstrate experiencewith the message,
answers the question,how does their message impact their life?
Now I have heard some pushbackfrom people saying, well, I don't use
personal illustrations in my speakingbecause I don't like to talk about myself.
And that sounds good, right?

(53:51):
So let's just let's just followthat line of thought.
You'renot going to use person illustration
because you don'twant to talk about yourself.
So what illustrationsare you going to use.
You're going to borrow from somebody else,
you know, search online like...
person illustrations are powerful.
They're great.
We don't give them to talk aboutourselves.
What happens is we give personillustrations because it shows

(54:14):
how we practice the message,how we put it into place.
So the goal in personaland using in the law of personalization
is to say, here's how I use the product,
here's how I practice the habit, here'show I believe the truth,
and three key three words that guide usin using personal illustrations.
Thinking about the law of personalization.

(54:35):
Three words you need to be humble.
Don't just share your success stories.
In fact, there have been messages.
When I've look back at my illustration,I'm like, you know what?
All my stories are success stories.
So I'll pull one out and say, okay,how can I put a story
where it was a fail storyand I needed to learn from my mistake?

(54:56):
So don't make all these storiesyour success stories, okay?
Or don't make you the heroin all your stories.
Okay.
In fact, when I teach this session atIMPAC, I have four stories that illustrate
in this.
Of those four stories, in three of them,the hero is somebody else.
Okay.

(55:16):
And in one of them,
it is very clear my failures.
Okay.
Only only in one of the four storiesam I the hero or I did the success.
I think it's a pretty good ratio.
Only one of four whereas the communicator, it's success on me.
So your three wordsthat guide you in the law personalization.
Humble, honest, like be honest,be real in sharing,

(55:41):
about your struggles and how you'rewrestling with presenting this truth.
Okay,
I've heard people say, well,
I don't teach on thisbecause I don't do it very well myself.
Okay,that sounds good, but follow that through.
Does that mean everything you speakon, you've got to perfect it.
That's not going to come across very well.

(56:02):
And so the law of personalization
doesn't state, an audience is impacted
when a communicator can demonstrateperfection.
No, it's when we demonstrate experience.
Here's how I do this.
Here's how I failed.
And I should have, you know, so
personal situationsare never to bring attention to yourself.
It's to point to the message.
And when you tell a personal story,it helps if people say, wow,

(56:25):
he wrestles with that too.
Wow. He believes in what he's saying.
So that's why we use the law
of personalization answers the questionhow does this message impact your life
then the fourth law,the law of application, that is an
audience is impacted when a communicatorcan identify change to put into practice,
identify change because your
action words answers a questionwhat do I want them to do?

(56:48):
And like I said before, we don't dosuch thing as informational speech, okay?
We alwaysthere's a reason they need to hear this.
So what do I want them to do?
That's as we present.
So we've the inspiration. The motivation.
Here's what I want you to know.Motivation, why I want you to know.
And we're going to teach that.
Okay. Now, what do you do with it.
So now let's get application.So that's a lot of application.

(57:10):
And then the fifth lawand I love this one.
And this is the one that I thinkis the most underused
because I think people don'tthink about it.
The law of clarificationand this law is this.
And audiences impacted when a communicator
can package thedelivery in a memorable way,

(57:30):
answers the question,
how do I help them remember?
When I have done the workof preparing a presentation,
I have my content down
now. I was like, okay, let me go.Give it to them.
No, stop!
How can I package thisin a way that they'll remember it?

(57:50):
Okay.
What are the three words that guide us
in using, law of Personalization?
They all start with H.
No, I didn't change this or make it up.
Okay, we're going to.
I can remember that. Honest, humble.
And I didn't give you the last H humor.
That's good I said there's three H’s,remind me to go back to

(58:12):
so when we use a law personalizationalso humor is a great way
and people people connect with humor okay.
So when when we give personalpersonal illustrations,
humble, honest and then use humorand humor
using your own stories,if you can laugh at yourself,

(58:34):
your audience can laugh with you.
That's a great way to connect.
Exaggeration can be a great form of humor.
And it's not lying is not dishonestif it doesn't deceive.
Okay, so we talked about it,living in northern Minnesota.
so let me tell you some about Minnesotathat I learned after living there
for eight years.
They have four seasons in in Minnesota,northern Minnesota,

(58:55):
early winter, mid-winter,
late winter And next winterThat's so true.
Okay, I know that's exaggeration.
Yeah, but what do you get out of that?
Yeah, there's long winters. Right.
Okay, here's here's what I like aboutMinnesota too is the people
Minnesota are really excited this yearbecause summer falls on the weekend.

(59:16):
So yeah
what that tells people is okayit's really cold.
It's really long.
It's exaggeration, but it's humor.
People here that they laugh, made a point.
Those are good waysto use personal illustrations.
So but back to the law of clarification.
Three H’s I can remember that. Okay.
So when you have a messageyou're ready to give,
how can I package in a waythat they're going to get it?

(59:39):
How can I deliver memorablein a memorable way?
What did Jesus dowhen he answered the question, what?
Who's my neighbor?
What did he do?
Told him a story.
We know the we know that
the story of the Good SamaritanJesus package in a way that he got it.
What did Nathan do.
When he went to David, he packaged itin a way that David would remember it.

(59:59):
And so when you know what they needto hear, why they need to hear it,
you put your personal illustrationsin, you've gotten the application.
Now let's do one more thing.
Use the law of clarification.
How can I help them remember,
and what you want is that
two days later, a week later,

(01:00:20):
a year later, or whatever it may be,
I got it, I got it,
and often that will bebecause the communicator
put the work the timeinto packaging it in a memorable way.
How you package delivery.
Now, I'm gratefulthat that's where God's Spirit,
he will say things that sometimeswe don't even say that people need to say.
And we we thank God for that.

(01:00:42):
But again, we're not going to be lazy.
We're going to do our part in saying,I'm going to try to help you remember
not I'm like, let's workwith the Holy Spirit
and trying to give themwhat they can hear, what they can
remember, rather than just dumpa load of information on them.
So those are the five lawsof of IMPAC communication.
And our core values in this, which goright along with what we're talking about.

(01:01:02):
Here are four core values with IMPAC.
Our first one is humility okay.
Valuing the messagerather than promoting the messenger.
So that's why you want to do itwell, you want them to get it okay.
Daviddidn't say, wow, Nathan you're great.
No, he said I've sinned. He got it.And that's our goal.
Our goal isn't to make ourselveslook good.
So our first value is humility.
Our second one is teach ability.

(01:01:23):
And so you talked about this.
If you've got people speaking into it,if you're going to be a good communicator
you've got to accept peoplespeaking into how you communicate.
And if all they do is say, well, it'sa great sermon, what you know, way to go
that doesn't help you anything.
But if they say, you know what, you're toointense.
It's hard for me to listen to you.Oh. Okay.

(01:01:44):
Now I've got something to work on. Okay.
So we need to be teachable.
That's a core value.
And again, one of the things we doat the IMPAC communication conferences,
you have feedbackwhere you get commendations,
where those in your speech groupand your coach say, this is really good.
Keep doing that.And then you have critiques.
This was a distraction.

(01:02:04):
Here'ssome things you need to work on okay.
And we do that three timesthat you give three different speeches
in your speech groupso that we work on things.
You see themes that you need to work on.
So second, core values teach ability.
Third one is maturity valuing
the growth that comes through feedbackrather than taking offense at it.
If I want to grow myself as a communicatorand I become offended

(01:02:26):
when somebody says, you don't, Rick,that was a really lousy message.
I'm not going to grow.
But when I can be curiouswith what they say and say, okay, why?
Why do you say that was a lousy messageand I can really listen to it.
They can help me out.
So even if even if I don't agree
with everything they said or evenit's like, no, I don't think I said no.
Listen to them, listen to them.
So the third value value, maturity valueand the feedback that comes

(01:02:49):
and then our fourth value is clarity valuein a concise focus message
rather than teaching broad amountsof information.
And again, we go back to Jesus for thisJesus told the disciples, said,
I've got many things to tell you,but you can't bear them all right now.
But I'm going to give it to youanyways, right?
No, that's not what he said.
And yethow many times do we as communicators

(01:03:12):
say, okay,
I got to hurry
through this to this message herebecause I've got so much information
I want to cover.
Okay, time out.
Is your goal to covera lot of information,
or is your goal
to give a message that impactsto where they understand and they get it?
If we're trying to hurry through to cover,like, I believe

(01:03:36):
it's the late Howard Hendrix that says,you know, why are we trying to cover it?
Oh, let's get it out therewhere they can see it and understand it.
So our goal,if I have so much information that I go,
it's like I'mputting myself ahead of my audience.
I have so many thingsI want to say to you, so listen well.
Yeah. Oh,I see that. You see what I'm doing.
So then what I'm doing is I'm

(01:03:57):
sacrificing the impactof what this message needs to be for them.
For the sake ofI just want to say all these things.
That's so selfish.
For me as a communicator,what I need to do is say,
how much time has I've been given?
Especially in American culture.
We're very time conscious.
How much time have they given?
Have they given me 30 minutesand I have a 60 minute sermon.

(01:04:18):
Then I better condense it
to where I can give it in 30 minuteswhat they've wanted me to give.
And I can do itin a way they'll remember it.
And if I have more informationto give than what I have time for,
then narrow it down.
Maybe you have two sermons.
You should. They should be broken into.
Or maybe you're saying some things thataren't really pointing to the main point.

(01:04:41):
So the aspect of I'm
going to make sure I'mgoing to say, here's what you can handle.
That's a,that's a really important aspect.
And, and that's valuing,
clarity value in the concise messagerather than broad amounts information.
So that's our core values.
And I see that when we follow those,

(01:05:01):
that's when people can that'swhen people will get it.
And we're not in the way.
We're not a distraction.
Not being a distraction and, and really,
pushing in on clarityor honing in on clarity.
Yeah, that's key though,because it's so easy to just,
for it to feel a little rambly sometimes,like, you know, sometimes, like,

(01:05:23):
that's easy to do, you know, a sermonor a teaching session or something.
It can feel like,oh, I'm starting to lose it a little bit.
You know, where, where is this going?
And really pushing in on clarity.
so as we,
as we wrap all these pieces up,there's a lot here.
I think it's the big is the big one. Okay.
So we've covered a lot of territoryand there's all these books and trainings
and courses, all this stuff on this,

(01:05:44):
it can feel like a lotand where to even start.
But I feel like you gave us a couplereally, really key pieces.
The. Yeah,the humility part and good communication
done well,shouldn't be focused on the presenter.
It's about the message.
I still feel like that's that one's huge.
And the, the outlines you've given us.

(01:06:05):
Yeah.
This is there's a lot here to think about.
So as, as we wrap this upand people listen to this and say, okay,
I want to take this into my own lifeand get better at communicating.
Is there any piece of adviceyou'd want to leave us with?
Yes. Two things. The first one is this.
Remember, as a communicator,your job is to deliver a message.

(01:06:29):
It's about the message, it’snot about you.
This isn't about me.
And that takes the focus off yourself.
So to me, that's just foundational.
It gives me freedom to put myself into itbecause I'm putting myself into it.
So they get it.
I'm putting myself into itso they understand the message,
and then I'm not a distraction.

(01:06:49):
So it gives you freedom to do your jobwell.
And just like, you know,you go home and your mom's cooked
a good meal, you know, wow,you're so enthralled with the meals.
Not like your gaze and your mom saying,wow, mom, you're awesome.
No, you're it's like the meal is right.
She delivered it, right.
So you want to deliver a messagein a way that people get it.
They're taken in by the message.
It's about the message, not about you.

(01:07:11):
And that just takes pressureoff of us, too.
It's not about me. That's a good point.
Yeah.
So to me, the first thing I want to leave
you with as audienceis it's about the message.
Remember that.And then the second thing is
grow yourself as a communicator.
Don't just say, I'm just going to keep
do my bestbecause we can learn from others.

(01:07:31):
I need to keep studying.I need to keep listening.
I need to keep having people critiqueme so that I can grow as a communicator.
So grow yourself
in, in as you, as a communicator,so that you can become more effective.
Because it is a stewardship,I believe when you have an opportunity
to teach, to preach, to communicate,you want to do it well.
And I thinkNathan is a great example for us.
He puts some sweat into it ahead of time.

(01:07:54):
Let me quote, again, Howard Hendricks.
When you get up to speak, somebody sweats.
Either you sweat beforehandor your audience sweats during.
So what he's saying is put the sweatin ahead of time,
work, develop yourself, and then studyso that your audience can relax
and they get itrather than they're sweating
because this guy doesn't have a clue

(01:08:15):
he hasn't prepared well, or he doesn'tknow how to do it, or he hasn't connected.
So Wow.
That's that's some powerful stuff toto leave us with.
And again, that sense of stewarding
this message God has given usand and presenting it well.
Well, you've given us a lotto think about today, Rick
and I really appreciate your timecoming on the podcast today.

(01:08:36):
Thank you.
It's been a privilegeand honor to be here.
Thank you.
In this episode, Rick Rhodes
outlined principles for good communicationand why that matters.
And that really sums upone of the main goals
we have here at Anabaptist Perspectives,where we want to have honest conversations
about the things that matter mostto Christians and their walk with Christ.
This podcast is made possible by listenersjust like you,

(01:08:57):
so if you don't mind, take a minuteto leave us a rating, a review
or a like on this episode helpsmore people find this podcast.
And of course, you
can find all our content on our websiteat anabaptistperspectives.org.
In the description down below.
We'll put links tosome of Rick Rhodes's work
and any other resourcesthat might be helpful for you.
Thanks againand we'll see you in the next episode.