July 10, 2025 • 36 mins
Yuriy Kravets tells the story of his interactions with Anabaptists in different parts of the world and discusses portions of global Anabaptist history. Why did Anabaptists scatter to begin with? What happened to those who fled persecution to the East, instead of traveling west to America? What can we learn from the global Anabaptist community today?
This is the 275th episode of Anabaptist Perspectives, a podcast, blog, and YouTube channel that examines various aspects of conservative Anabaptist life and thought.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
And my hopeis that by listening to this podcast,
your mind has been stretchedjust a little bit
so that you can be more awareof the possibilities that are out there,
the possibilities of serving Christ,the possibilities of what is happening
in the world todaythat wants to align itself
in the world todaythat wants to align itself
with, kingdom values, somethingthat has meant so much to us here,
(00:22):
and how all these different partscan be connected, because in the end,
we're going to be in heaven together,Lord willing.
And I think that starting the process
of getting to know each other and helpingeach other's needs, serving each other,
would be best to do here on Earth.
(00:47):
Welcome to the podcast Yuriy.
So we did a previous episodewith you and encourage people to maybe
check that out first.
It's some of the storyof how you were born in the Soviet Union,
in what's now Ukraine.
And coming here to America,
then back to Ukraine and getting connectedwith the Anabaptists and so forth.
So there's a whole chunk of the storythere.
We're not going to touch thatat this time.
(01:07):
I'm going to take a different angle.
And that is we're coming up on the 500thanniversary
of Anabaptismgetting started to begin with.
It started in Europe,and there's been a lot of work
historically on on thatfrom an academic perspective.
But I want to hear more from your personalexperience of the Anabaptists in Europe.
(01:28):
And really that kind of thisglobal community of the Anabaptists,
it's easy to think of itas, as purely a North American phenomenon.
And that's not really the case.
So, yeah, let's just jump right into that.
And first point being,can you give us a bit of a broad picture
of how the Anabaptists were pushed
east across Europe and then beyond,even into parts of Asia and so forth?
And how that fits in with the storyand brings us up to today.
(01:52):
Yeah.
Reagan, that's a fascinating subjectand one that I'm very passionate about.
But I want to give you some context.
First is that this is based onmy limited experience, and I apologize
in advance if I misrepresent some factsor other things.
But yeah, I was in my mid 20s
before I realized the factthat not all Mennonites or Anabaptists
(02:14):
immigrated to North Americaafter being persecuted in Europe.
In 2012, I got to know,two Russian German brothers,
Rudy and Alex, who got an interestin American Anabaptism and came over
to stay in our part of Pennsylvania,for the space of several years.
And, of course, with my grandfatherspending some time in two
(02:37):
different German concentration camps,I was really interested in Germany.
And how that, that society function.
And and now, as I was getting more aware
of the historical Christian context,that made me even more interested.
So I interviewed these two brothersa lot and tried to learn
as much as as I could from them.
And that was actually the beginning of my,studies of the German language as well.
(03:02):
So, throughout
this process, 2012,
I've been having these conversations and,one of the brothers
said, hey, why not take a singing groupand come minister
in some of the churches over there?
I'll arrange some of the connections.
And I was like,
this is the opportunity I've been waitingfor, being involved in music like I am.
(03:26):
And so in 2014, the right
combination of interestand opportunity came together,
and I went on a trip to visit GermanAnabaptist churches there in Germany.
I went with a, olderbrother named Brother Mose
Stoltzfus,who some listening, may be familiar with.
He has since passed away.
(03:47):
Since that time.
It was a group of,I don't know, maybe around 12 of us,
young men and young ladies,you know, enough to get something
like, 2 per part,when we're, when we're singing there
and we arrived there, peopledidn't really know what to make of us.
They were a little bit, not sure what to do with this group
(04:09):
of Americans that are, you know, dressed,well they're dressed conservative.
So, you know, check that.
But what do they believe?
Who are they? Where are they from?
What's their history?
And, the ice broke rather quickly.
And we were very warmlywelcomed into those settings.
And basically what we did waswe would go and sing and,
(04:30):
at an evening serviceor a Sunday morning,
we'd sing and then, Brother Mose who was
with us, was fluent in German.
And he had a degreeof command of the language
so he could actually preach in German.
It was very simple,but it was, legible, understandable.
And people resonatedwith, with the message
(04:53):
that that he brought and.
A turning point on the subject,
of the European Anabaptists, for mewas when I visited,
church when, when our group visiteda church in the small
town of Baldhams,one of my favorite places on earth.
Completely beautiful.
It's a valleywith a river flowing through it
(05:15):
and just a completely amazing place,when talking about the landscape.
But there is a Mennonite church there,
and they have a whole floordevoted to a museum of Mennonite history.
Whoa. Oh, okay.
Well, let's go back.
I would love to get.Where in Germany is this?
Yeah.
So this is Baldhams,
(05:36):
Not so when it comes to German geography,it's kind of like their language.
It's all kind of mixed together.
In a way.
And so it's, I think it's, a couple hours drive from, Munich.
So, yeah, definitelywestern, western part of the country.
And like I
said, a whole floor dedicatedto a museum of Mennonite history.
(05:57):
And it's for the first timeI started seeing that connection.
With me, a Ukrainian by birth
and the spiritual heritage I was part of.
And one would think, well,what is what could the connection between,
somebody of Slavic heritagelike myself and German Anabaptism?
(06:18):
What connection can that possibly have?
So I'll give a little bit of history,as best as I know,
with full acknowledgmentthat there are those in our circles
and those that you interview that wouldknow this history much better than I do.
So so when preparing for this interview,I just went online,
to get something more articulatedthan, than I can come up with.
(06:41):
And I, came across, this excerpt from the Global Mennonite
Encyclopedia online GAMEO, if you will,
and it talks about, Catherinethe second, Empress of Russia.
And she lived from 1762 to 1796.
So around the time period that the UnitedStates of America was a new country,
(07:02):
the American Revolution,I think that, period in history.
And she called the or she referred
to that Mennonites as competent colonists.
She invited them into her recentlyacquired lands in Ukraine.
So she was
German, but through political affiliation,she got married
(07:23):
to, someone in the Russian Empireof high stature.
Could have been even, like a czaror or however you want to put it.
So she had a lot of power.
So she invited these,
these Mennonites to comeand settle her newly acquired lands.
So I'm continuing, here from the,that article on,
22nd of July, 1763,
(07:45):
she issued a manifesto guaranteeingto all German immigrants,
regardless of creed,freedom of speech, schools and religion,
autonomous government of villages,communities and colonist areas,
and aboveall, freedom from military service.
So by means of a special documentsigned by George von Trapp,
(08:05):
she invited the Mennonites in West Prussiato immigrate to Russia,
promising them complete freedomfor all time and 65 disatinas
or about 165 acres of landfor each family.
And then on August 17th, 1786,
the document was readaloud at a public meeting at Danzig
(08:29):
In autumn of the
same year, Jacob Hoeppner and Johann Bartsch
went to Russiaas deputies of the Prussian Mennonites.
So after that time begins this migration
by various routesdepending on where people were located.
And this museum at Baldhams,actually has a map of
(08:49):
that of like 5 to 7 different groups.
And the routes, whether through landor sea, that they took to where eventually
they settled in the Russian Empire
and one of the first villages
was established in 1789,
and that was in present day Ukraine.
And so the Mennonite communitythere prospered for the next,
(09:13):
120 odd years or so until
the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917.
By this time they had done very well,economically.
They were hard working, industrious.
Ring any bells from nowadays?
So, but 1917 comes
(09:35):
and the, the revolution takes its toll.
So some compromised,
some took up arms,some started fighting for one side
or another during the Civil warthat was happening at the time.
Others fled at that time or later,
and a significant numbereventually found themselves
(09:56):
in the eastern partsof the former Russian Empire.
So you kind of see thisparallel development, like the heritage
of American Anabaptist,would be that whenever,
the persecutions in the
16th century, 17th century
was heavy in parts of
(10:18):
Western Europe, a lot of them fled west,
to North America, Canada,
some some even to South America,and settled there.
But a number went east.
And then something that's importantis that they kept their language,
including High German and their dialect,which, if you know anything about Germany,
(10:42):
I think it's most German, speak a dialect,depending on where they're from.
And then High German, which, is kindof an invention of by Martin Luther.
That came aboutas he was translating the Bible
and united the Germanic peopleswith a common language,
so that that contribution of his,I think, was was very noble.
(11:04):
And it's interesting to see how,
just education and language development
and the spread of the gospelcan often run together
in ways that, well you wouldn'tput it together otherwise.
So, just amazing how God works.
(11:24):
This is wild. So.
Okay, so they're fleeing during the, primarily Bolshevik revolution.
So 1917 think World War One era.
They're going further east yet like,so they went to Ukraine initially.
That's already to the east.
And then we're going further than that.
Yet into the deeperinto the Russian Empire, I assume.
Like how far did they go?Where did they end up?
(11:47):
Where are they today?I guess two would be the other.
Obvious question,because that's only 115 years ago or so.
Yeah. Good question.
And from my research I found that,
not sure if it's totally accurate to saythey went more
like they were pushed together.
Shown shown the door or, fled.
Otherwise, and different peoplegot out different ways.
(12:10):
So one of the guarantees,if you remember, by Catherine
the Great, as history calls her, was that
they would not have to servein the military for all time.
Yeah.
And so when those rights beginto be compromised,
the new, new government, the communist government
(12:30):
that was going to take over there, like,we're not going to, hold true to that.
You either come join us, help us fight,or get out of here or however.
And so again, they they suffered a lotduring the period of the Civil War
leading up to the, the revolutionand during that time.
Yes. So as a result of all this scatteringthat came about of the
(12:52):
internal civic strifethat was happening,
many fled where they could ending upat the far corners of the world,
you could say places like Siberia, placeslike Kazakhstan, Tajikistan,
other places that are like, closer to Asiathan they are to Europe.
Wow. Yeah, that's a piece of the storythat we don't hear.
(13:17):
Like I've bumped into it just a little bitbecause of another organization working
with, and we're running into little, hints that,
oh, that they were or are Mennonitesin different parts of Central Asia,
which is like really far east from Europe,you know, how did they get here?
You know. Oh, they were fleeing different,different persecutions.
I think there may have been somethat fled even before,
(13:38):
the World War One era,just different things like that.
Like I've never heard that story before.
So we have this story of the scatteringof various Anabaptist groups,
you know, starting in Germany,and then you're talking about
the Slavic areas, Ukraine going furthereast and deeper into the Russian Empire.
What are some of the largerlet's maybe zoom out, you know, larger,
(14:01):
events and processesthat are happening, during this time.
Yeah.
So the interesting thing is that, theseMennonites, Anabaptists were a lot of them
were wealthy landowners, hard working,and those who were true to the faith.
I want to make an accent that
because there were thosethat kind of got acculturated, right.
(14:22):
We have our culture and we're justgoing to live and not really mingle with,
with the Slavs,and we're going to do our own thing.
All right? We're going to live in peace,be the quiet of the land.
But there were those who were faithfuland who were, revived and,
children of God, you could saythat were passionate about their faith,
and they would inevitably witness, andthere would be converts amongst the Slavs.
(14:46):
So these Slavs,
alongside those who became believersby like, reading the Bible and,
and that kind of thing, wherethose who clung to kingdom principles
and were taking the commands of Christseriously.
So these Slavic converts,whether converted through
(15:07):
the work of the Anabaptists orby reading the scriptures for themselves,
they are the oneswho are not hiding their faith.
They are evangelizing, baptizing people in their locales.
So once Western Anabaptist influence
moves on due to emigration or relocationby the authorities,
(15:29):
it was this Slavic expression of faiththat was left in that area.
So you have these parallel communitiesthat develop separately,
but sharea lot of the same kingdom values.
And these values thriveeven when the atheistic communist
government persecutes the church.
And here again, there's some compromise.
(15:52):
And the loss of these teachings of Christ.
However, others stay faithfuland become what the world knows
today as the persecuted church.
This is really,
really interesting,like tracing this thread
through history and it feels likethere's a chunk of the story at least.
I mean, I haven't heard, you know,and so I and I'm guessing a lot of other
people have forgottenor don't know about it.
(16:15):
But why do you think it's importantthat that we're aware of this, like,
okay, so we're sitting hereand in America, you know, and
and you mentioned how there'sthat part of the scattering.
Right.
Then there's these other groupsand their experience
and that what they went through,what can we learn from them?
Why is that important?
And, and anything elseyou want to share along with that?
(16:36):
I guess that's kind of bringing us more upto present day, as well.
So So when I think about the implicationsof asking that question,
I like to describe it with a termthat I borrowed from anthropology
and kind of give ita little bit of a spiritual twist to it.
So there's this anthropological termcalled ethno centricity,
which is the belief that one's ownethnic group,
(16:57):
nationalityor culture is superior to others.
And so when I first found out about it,I was like, well,
is there a possibility that some peoplecan be or groups or communities
or churches can have a spiritual
sort of ethno centricityand considering that, their culture
(17:18):
or their specific way of doing thingsis superior to others.
And as I got thinking about that,the thought occurred that
you don't even have to thinkthat way, that you're superior.
It's by disregarding or
omitting the experiencesof other cultures,
(17:38):
especially where Christ and Godhave worked.
And if you kind of disregard them,if they're not part of your experience,
I believe that it's very easyfor this spiritual kind of ethno
centricity to creep inand begin to be part of your life
and be part of your worldviewand that kind of thing.
(17:59):
So I believe thatit is in our best interest
to develop an awareness of the issueschurches,
especially the persecutedchurch, are facing
and how other contexts of KingdomChristianity have approached
various facets of the faith.
As in, we have a lot to learnfrom these people basically.
(18:21):
Right.
Like like it's easyto look at our experience
in total isolation and just be like hereit is, you know, and you're saying,
well let's, let's expandour perspective a bit or let's
have an awareness of the
experience of others that went throughthrough what you've been describing here.
Is that a fair way of saying it?
yeah, I agree with what you're saying.
(18:42):
And in order to be ableto learn from something,
you need to know that it exists.
This is true.
Yeah, that's a good point because again,I think a lot of the story you're telling,
I, I'mguessing a lot of people don't know it.
I mean, this is a lotthis is new for me, you know.
So let's get a little more specific.
So we're here in America, right?
We’re North American Anabaptists,I guess you could say, what can we learn
(19:04):
from these people who have went througha different experience?
Right.
These other groupsthat maybe we don't have an awareness of,
practically speaking,what are some examples we can learn from?
Yeah.
So one that comes to mind right offthe bat is the way that the persecuted
So one that comes to mind right offthe bat is the way that the persecuted
church, found to keep childrenand youth plugged into the church.
(19:25):
So let's remember the context.
You have an atheistic governmentthat, is bent on destroying Christianity.
And, under the communist regime,the church that was faithful
needed to find a wayto keep their children.
And when I say faithful,I say it's because there was a church
that wasn't faithful, as historyhas shown,
(19:48):
to Christ and was under the authorityof the government.
And an interesting story is my momactually remembers when, as a little girl,
going to such a church with her momand being held up
and not allowed to comein, as these government
sanctioned churches were not supposedto have children in the service.
And so right there at the door,there were deacons or other ministers,
(20:09):
and they were letting the adults come in,but the children had to stay out.
And the way
my mom described the situation,it was tragic.
It was it was terrifying.
She had was basically told to separate
from her mother,but the situation was such.
I guessthere was some kind of a fuss involved.
And they said, okay,
you can go sit somewhere in the backhidden from you and that kind of thing,
(20:33):
but just imagine that kind of situationcoming to a town near you.
so the faithful church said, no,our children will be
with us during the serviceand they were persecuted for it.
So under a time persecution where it'shard to do any kind of evangelism,
you you're left with the question of,well, what are you going to do
with your children?
(20:53):
How are you going to plug them into,
your faithand make sure that it becomes their own?
And their solutionwas involving the children
and young people and encouraging themto participate in the service.
Beyond just congregational singing.
Right.
So if I think about, Anabaptist contexttoday
(21:14):
at our time, how do the children
and young people participateduring the regular worship service?
And, well,there's Sunday school, right, for churches
that have, Sunday school that providessome level of interaction participation.
But I'm thinking ofjust the general worship service.
The extent to which they can dosomething, is sing with the congregation.
(21:38):
And I'm not aware of much else.
So the persecuted churchtook this approach.
Their belief was thatthere was a legitimate way for children
and youth to express themselvesin the spirit of First Corinthians 14:26,
which says, whenever you come together,each of you that has a psalm,
has a teaching, has a tongue, hasa revelation, has an interpretation.
(22:00):
Let all things be done for edification.
So they were encouraged these children,
young people, to share scriptures,Christian poetry and songs
during the service and be integrated
in that way to the worship experience.
And this added
dimension of involvementis something that I see sadly missing
(22:22):
from a lot of the Anabaptist contextsin our conservative circles.
And I think that's one clear areawhere we could learn from the experience
of the persecuted church, and to seehow can we facilitate
the integration of the generations into,the worship service
and into Christian life in general.
(22:45):
So that's been the experience
of the Slavic Anabaptists.
But I also want to say about,
German Anabaptists who have, after
the generations that they were removedfrom their homeland.
Remember that?
I said they kept their, ethnicity.
They kept their High German and their LowGerman, so they kept their culture.
(23:08):
So starting in the 1980s,a lot of them were able to come back
and they, started settlementsessentially, or communities.
And here they arehave having been removed from the culture
or developed so differently,while sharing the same language.
And they find out that while the valuesof the Germans are not our values.
(23:33):
so it's not a secretthat Europe today is very secular,
very low priority placed on, true faith
and generally just the number of orthe level of Christianity has went down.
so these ethnic Germans are
now back in their homecountry and are faced with a dilemma.
(23:54):
What are we going to do?
How are we going to pass on our valuesto, our children?
And the additional layer of challengethat they have
is that you can'thave things like homeschooling.
There it's illegal under German law.
So that leaves, public school.
And as I understand, in the public schools
(24:15):
in Germany and in Europe are in some way
even more progressivethan what we've been seeing here.
And again,not having the option to homeschool.
So the Christian school movement
in Germany is under 20 years old,
So there are German congregations
that would have the same values,similar values to us.
(24:37):
And they're saying, no, we don't wantthe world to educate our children. So,
from that came this development
of the Christian school movementin Germany.
And that movement is under 20 years old.
Oh, wow.
And so right now,to the best of my knowledge,
there are under ten schools in Germanythat would have values similar
(25:02):
to our Christian day schoolsand where I live in Lancaster County.
I wouldn't be surprisedif there are around
50 schoolsthat would share similar values.
But Germany is the size of Montana,
so compare that that size difference thereand much more densely populated.
And I think Montana's.
(25:24):
So that's that they kind of answers.
One of the questions actually Ihad is like, where are these people today?
Right.
You're kind of tracing this storyand the scattering that's happening.
But if I'm tracking correctly,you know, a number of these people
that fled east, right,have have come back to Germany.
Right?
And now one of these thingsspecifically you're mentioning is now
(25:45):
this new thing of Christian educationor like starting schools, for them.
Wow. Like, I kindof want to meet these people now, right?
Like, how how have we not heard thatthat all these Anabaptist
or Anabaptist mindedpeople are still there, you know?
You know,so one of the reasons for that is that,
some of the more conservative groupsthat would, would have
(26:08):
similar values to us, they're not
they don't have as much of an online
presence that that we would think is finewith having
is just the way their traditionsand, their, their contexts developed.
So that's part of the reason is they're,they're not as much of the group,
not as much partof a global community as,
(26:31):
as we may we may be
I mean, that's not to say that they'redoing it wrong.
It's just,
they're not as visible.
however, I just want to assure youthat, yes,
kingdomvalues are alive in places like Germany.
And like I said earlier,it is in our best interests
(26:51):
that we connect inwhatever ways we can with these people
that share our values and see
how can we help each other
Well that's a key piece then,because I can imagine some listeners
hearing this and saying oh okay,I want to have,
I want to, I want to know more likeI want to have more awareness
(27:12):
of these other groupsthat maybe across Europe and other places,
how can how can they start,how can we start raising more awareness
of these different groups and, at least acknowledge that
they exist or I, I'm not even surewhat the next moves would be here,
but it feels likethis is really significant.
And of course, I want tojust put that out there of,
you know,if some of these people are over there
(27:34):
and hear this podcast, like, reach out,you know, like, maybe we could connect.
I mean, I'd love to interview some of themand get their story, you know, as well.
But yeah, I'd be curiouswhat you have to say to that.
Sure.
So in my mind,you have to start with a desire.
There must be an awareness and a desire
to get to knowa different facet of the kingdom of God.
And where God has worked.
(27:54):
So something that comes to mind is,
if you're planning a trip to Europe,make it more than just a vacation.
Plan to visit one of their churches.
I know people that haveand were enriched by the experience.
You'll find things that are different,but you'll also find like aha moments.
Wow. You know,that is very fascinating and neat.
something specific that comes to mind is, the one church that I have some contact
(28:19):
with is they have a church yearbook,and we know of, like, school yearbooks.
Right. But this is a church yearbook.
And if you were to look at that yearbook,you would see a table
with all the services who preachedand what they preached about.
That's a short summary of that.
And then you would have things like,what are some things that happened
in the life of the church?
(28:39):
What are some ministries?
What were the young people doingwho was baptized?
Who was born? Right?
And then over the years,
you get a collection of memoriesthat allows you to look back and see
where arewhere are we compared to ten years ago?
Where are we compared to, suchand such a time and place?
One thing I find is that,like the American Anabaptists,
(29:02):
we love going back to the 1500sand saying that's where we came from.
Or the ante-Nicene fathers.
And we still hold true to that faith,but then we are not often
as well-versed in more recent history
of, well, what has happened in the past100 years or 200 years?
What have some shifts,
been that that have happenedthat I need to know about?
(29:25):
And I do really applaud the the brothers,the historians among us who who take
initiative in finding out that historyto make sure it's not forgotten.
So I really appreciate that.
And if you're involved in that effort,then that's great.
If you're if you're listening to this,I just want to bless you in continuing
that work, in raisingawareness of of history, because it's
(29:47):
such a critical partof the of the Christian experience.
So another thing
that comes to mindis if you come from a background
that has, knowledge of High German,that could open doors for you.
So going back to what I saidabout the preacher,
I went with, in 2014, brother Mose,
(30:08):
he came from an Amish background,and then he got to visit,
Germany, I think it was the 1970s.
And he was really inspiredby the Christians that have,
at that point, just started coming backfrom the former Soviet Union.
And it really profoundly impacted hishis Christian life.
(30:29):
He just saw the fervor of these brothersthat were just a couple of years
ago, persecuted,may have spent time in prison,
and it really hada profound impact on his life.
So he came backand he attended night classes
to learn High German was able to,
I guess because of his Amish background,aquire it rather efficiently.
(30:53):
And then when he went back,he was able to converse with them
and able to exchange ideasand and this whole thing
which really impacted,his spiritual walk positively.
like I
said, there's an interestin the Christian school movement,
to create connection between the,
(31:15):
Anabaptist schools hereand the Anabaptist schools over there.
This could look somethinglike a pen pal program.
And at least one of my contacts askedabout a school exchange program of sorts.
And that's the discussionI'm in right now.
When preparing for this interviewI asked one of my contacts
(31:36):
in Germany is like, what would you sayif you were in my place?
And he right away said that there is aneed for Christian school teachers there.
The difficulty in Germany
is that the German government,who oversees all the aspects
of the education in the country,has strict requirements
for teachers in order to become certifiedand teach legally.
(31:59):
And one of those isyou must have, at minimum,
a master's degree in order to be ableto teach at a public school.
There. Whoa.
Okay, that's, that's a major investment.
You know, I it's a it's a equip bout a sixyear process to get a master's degree.
For those listening. Wow.
Yeah.
So maybe you're in the processof getting a higher education
(32:22):
and are looking for ways to serve Addingsomething like Tesol
training to your degree may open up doorsyou've never dreamed of.
That's true.
All of this is fascinating,and I really want to know more.
I hope we can pursue this,topic on the podcast in the future.
I feel like there's a there'sa big piece here that we've been missing.
(32:45):
Or at least I've been missing.
I mean, maybe other people know this,but I haven't heard this before.
So as we wrap this up and kind of tiethe ribbons on this topic, so to speak,
what is something you would like to leavewith the listeners?
Yeah. So two things.
One is if I said somethingthat resonated with you
and you would like to contact me,I would be glad to discuss this topic.
(33:06):
I'm I'm very passionate about it.
I'm going through schooling of my ownright now, with the intended goal
of moving to Germany for at leasta couple of years and serving in that way.
And to get to know, the community there,
because I place a lot of valueon the things that I was talking about.
I certainly don't want to bein the category of being spiritually
(33:29):
ethnocentric.
And, just allowing that lineof thinking of superiority
to cloud my vision of Christand his kingdom.
And that would be my recommendationfor, for everybody.
So to contact me,you can just get in touch
with Anabaptist perspectives and they'llbe glad to make the connection there.
And lastly, I just want to leave youwith one quote that has spoken to me,
(33:51):
by Ralph Waldo Emerson,which says, the mind, once
stretched by a new ideanever returns to its original dimensions.
And my hopeis that by listening to this podcast,
your mind has been stretchedjust a little bit
so that you can be more awareof the possibilities that are out there,
the possibilities of serving Christ,the possibilities of what is happening
(34:14):
in the world todaythat wants to align itself
with, kingdom values and somethingthat has meant so much to us here,
and how all these different partscan be connected, because in the end,
we're going to be in heaven together,Lord willing.
And I think that starting the process
(34:35):
of getting to know each other and helpingeach other's needs, serving each other,
would be best to do here on Earth.
That's, Wow,you gave us a lot to think about.
And that's a wonderful pieceto end us with.
And yeah,
I just want to reaffirm that if someonewatching this has more information
(34:55):
and wants to learn more and wantsto connect with you or us or something,
yeah, definitely get in touch.
You can easily do thatthrough our website or or something.
Because, yeah,I feel like this is a topic
we're going to want to come back to you.
And, maybe when you move to Germanyand get settled in there,
maybe we'll come over thereand interview you
and kind of see how it's goingand meet some of these people.
That would bethat would be amazing. So, yeah.
(35:16):
Thanks so much for coming on todayand for sharing this.
Yeah.
And thank you for having meas a guest here on the podcast.
And blessings to you as you continuethis work of asking what I believe
to be the right questionsand yeah, may God use you
to impact, the world for for his glory.
Yeah. Thank you. Yuriy.
Thanks for listening to this episodewith Yuriy.
(35:38):
We did a previous episode with him
telling this story about how he was bornin Ukraine behind the Iron Curtain,
and ultimately found his way to Americaand the Anabaptist movement.
You can find thatlinked in the description down below.
We also have an email newsletter,which you can sign up for
on our websiteat Anabaptistperspectives.org.
Thanks againand we'll see you in the next episode.
And my hopeis that by listening to this podcast,
your mind has been stretchedjust a little bit
so that you can be more awareof the possibilities that are out there,
the possibilities of serving Christ,the possibilities of what is happening
in the world todaythat wants to align itself
in the world todaythat wants to align itself
with, kingdom values, somethingthat has meant so much to us here,
(00:22):
and how all these different partscan be connected, because in the end,
we're going to be in heaven together,Lord willing.
And I think that starting the process
of getting to know each other and helpingeach other's needs, serving each other,
would be best to do here on Earth.
(00:47):
Welcome to the podcast Yuriy.
So we did a previous episodewith you and encourage people to maybe
check that out first.
It's some of the storyof how you were born in the Soviet Union,
in what's now Ukraine.
And coming here to America,
then back to Ukraine and getting connectedwith the Anabaptists and so forth.
So there's a whole chunk of the storythere.
We're not going to touch thatat this time.
(01:07):
I'm going to take a different angle.
And that is we're coming up on the 500thanniversary
of Anabaptismgetting started to begin with.
It started in Europe,and there's been a lot of work
historically on on thatfrom an academic perspective.
But I want to hear more from your personalexperience of the Anabaptists in Europe.
(01:28):
And really that kind of thisglobal community of the Anabaptists,
it's easy to think of itas, as purely a North American phenomenon.
And that's not really the case.
So, yeah, let's just jump right into that.
And first point being,can you give us a bit of a broad picture
of how the Anabaptists were pushed
east across Europe and then beyond,even into parts of Asia and so forth?
And how that fits in with the storyand brings us up to today.
(01:52):
Yeah.
Reagan, that's a fascinating subjectand one that I'm very passionate about.
But I want to give you some context.
First is that this is based onmy limited experience, and I apologize
in advance if I misrepresent some factsor other things.
But yeah, I was in my mid 20s
before I realized the factthat not all Mennonites or Anabaptists
(02:14):
immigrated to North Americaafter being persecuted in Europe.
In 2012, I got to know,two Russian German brothers,
Rudy and Alex, who got an interestin American Anabaptism and came over
to stay in our part of Pennsylvania,for the space of several years.
And, of course, with my grandfatherspending some time in two
(02:37):
different German concentration camps,I was really interested in Germany.
And how that, that society function.
And and now, as I was getting more aware
of the historical Christian context,that made me even more interested.
So I interviewed these two brothersa lot and tried to learn
as much as as I could from them.
And that was actually the beginning of my,studies of the German language as well.
(03:02):
So, throughout
this process, 2012,
I've been having these conversations and,one of the brothers
said, hey, why not take a singing groupand come minister
in some of the churches over there?
I'll arrange some of the connections.
And I was like,
this is the opportunity I've been waitingfor, being involved in music like I am.
(03:26):
And so in 2014, the right
combination of interestand opportunity came together,
and I went on a trip to visit GermanAnabaptist churches there in Germany.
I went with a, olderbrother named Brother Mose
Stoltzfus,who some listening, may be familiar with.
He has since passed away.
(03:47):
Since that time.
It was a group of,I don't know, maybe around 12 of us,
young men and young ladies,you know, enough to get something
like, 2 per part,when we're, when we're singing there
and we arrived there, peopledidn't really know what to make of us.
They were a little bit, not sure what to do with this group
(04:09):
of Americans that are, you know, dressed,well they're dressed conservative.
So, you know, check that.
But what do they believe?
Who are they? Where are they from?
What's their history?
And, the ice broke rather quickly.
And we were very warmlywelcomed into those settings.
And basically what we did waswe would go and sing and,
(04:30):
at an evening serviceor a Sunday morning,
we'd sing and then, Brother Mose who was
with us, was fluent in German.
And he had a degreeof command of the language
so he could actually preach in German.
It was very simple,but it was, legible, understandable.
And people resonatedwith, with the message
(04:53):
that that he brought and.
A turning point on the subject,
of the European Anabaptists, for mewas when I visited,
church when, when our group visiteda church in the small
town of Baldhams,one of my favorite places on earth.
Completely beautiful.
It's a valleywith a river flowing through it
(05:15):
and just a completely amazing place,when talking about the landscape.
But there is a Mennonite church there,
and they have a whole floordevoted to a museum of Mennonite history.
Whoa. Oh, okay.
Well, let's go back.
I would love to get.Where in Germany is this?
Yeah.
So this is Baldhams,
(05:36):
Not so when it comes to German geography,it's kind of like their language.
It's all kind of mixed together.
In a way.
And so it's, I think it's, a couple hours drive from, Munich.
So, yeah, definitelywestern, western part of the country.
And like I
said, a whole floor dedicatedto a museum of Mennonite history.
(05:57):
And it's for the first timeI started seeing that connection.
With me, a Ukrainian by birth
and the spiritual heritage I was part of.
And one would think, well,what is what could the connection between,
somebody of Slavic heritagelike myself and German Anabaptism?
(06:18):
What connection can that possibly have?
So I'll give a little bit of history,as best as I know,
with full acknowledgmentthat there are those in our circles
and those that you interview that wouldknow this history much better than I do.
So so when preparing for this interview,I just went online,
to get something more articulatedthan, than I can come up with.
(06:41):
And I, came across, this excerpt from the Global Mennonite
Encyclopedia online GAMEO, if you will,
and it talks about, Catherinethe second, Empress of Russia.
And she lived from 1762 to 1796.
So around the time period that the UnitedStates of America was a new country,
(07:02):
the American Revolution,I think that, period in history.
And she called the or she referred
to that Mennonites as competent colonists.
She invited them into her recentlyacquired lands in Ukraine.
So she was
German, but through political affiliation,she got married
(07:23):
to, someone in the Russian Empireof high stature.
Could have been even, like a czaror or however you want to put it.
So she had a lot of power.
So she invited these,
these Mennonites to comeand settle her newly acquired lands.
So I'm continuing, here from the,that article on,
22nd of July, 1763,
(07:45):
she issued a manifesto guaranteeingto all German immigrants,
regardless of creed,freedom of speech, schools and religion,
autonomous government of villages,communities and colonist areas,
and aboveall, freedom from military service.
So by means of a special documentsigned by George von Trapp,
(08:05):
she invited the Mennonites in West Prussiato immigrate to Russia,
promising them complete freedomfor all time and 65 disatinas
or about 165 acres of landfor each family.
And then on August 17th, 1786,
the document was readaloud at a public meeting at Danzig
(08:29):
In autumn of the
same year, Jacob Hoeppner and Johann Bartsch
went to Russiaas deputies of the Prussian Mennonites.
So after that time begins this migration
by various routesdepending on where people were located.
And this museum at Baldhams,actually has a map of
(08:49):
that of like 5 to 7 different groups.
And the routes, whether through landor sea, that they took to where eventually
they settled in the Russian Empire
and one of the first villages
was established in 1789,
and that was in present day Ukraine.
And so the Mennonite communitythere prospered for the next,
(09:13):
120 odd years or so until
the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917.
By this time they had done very well,economically.
They were hard working, industrious.
Ring any bells from nowadays?
So, but 1917 comes
(09:35):
and the, the revolution takes its toll.
So some compromised,
some took up arms,some started fighting for one side
or another during the Civil warthat was happening at the time.
Others fled at that time or later,
and a significant numbereventually found themselves
(09:56):
in the eastern partsof the former Russian Empire.
So you kind of see thisparallel development, like the heritage
of American Anabaptist,would be that whenever,
the persecutions in the
16th century, 17th century
was heavy in parts of
(10:18):
Western Europe, a lot of them fled west,
to North America, Canada,
some some even to South America,and settled there.
But a number went east.
And then something that's importantis that they kept their language,
including High German and their dialect,which, if you know anything about Germany,
(10:42):
I think it's most German, speak a dialect,depending on where they're from.
And then High German, which, is kindof an invention of by Martin Luther.
That came aboutas he was translating the Bible
and united the Germanic peopleswith a common language,
so that that contribution of his,I think, was was very noble.
(11:04):
And it's interesting to see how,
just education and language development
and the spread of the gospelcan often run together
in ways that, well you wouldn'tput it together otherwise.
So, just amazing how God works.
(11:24):
This is wild. So.
Okay, so they're fleeing during the, primarily Bolshevik revolution.
So 1917 think World War One era.
They're going further east yet like,so they went to Ukraine initially.
That's already to the east.
And then we're going further than that.
Yet into the deeperinto the Russian Empire, I assume.
Like how far did they go?Where did they end up?
(11:47):
Where are they today?I guess two would be the other.
Obvious question,because that's only 115 years ago or so.
Yeah. Good question.
And from my research I found that,
not sure if it's totally accurate to saythey went more
like they were pushed together.
Shown shown the door or, fled.
Otherwise, and different peoplegot out different ways.
(12:10):
So one of the guarantees,if you remember, by Catherine
the Great, as history calls her, was that
they would not have to servein the military for all time.
Yeah.
And so when those rights beginto be compromised,
the new, new government, the communist government
(12:30):
that was going to take over there, like,we're not going to, hold true to that.
You either come join us, help us fight,or get out of here or however.
And so again, they they suffered a lotduring the period of the Civil War
leading up to the, the revolutionand during that time.
Yes. So as a result of all this scatteringthat came about of the
(12:52):
internal civic strifethat was happening,
many fled where they could ending upat the far corners of the world,
you could say places like Siberia, placeslike Kazakhstan, Tajikistan,
other places that are like, closer to Asiathan they are to Europe.
Wow. Yeah, that's a piece of the storythat we don't hear.
(13:17):
Like I've bumped into it just a little bitbecause of another organization working
with, and we're running into little, hints that,
oh, that they were or are Mennonitesin different parts of Central Asia,
which is like really far east from Europe,you know, how did they get here?
You know. Oh, they were fleeing different,different persecutions.
I think there may have been somethat fled even before,
(13:38):
the World War One era,just different things like that.
Like I've never heard that story before.
So we have this story of the scatteringof various Anabaptist groups,
you know, starting in Germany,and then you're talking about
the Slavic areas, Ukraine going furthereast and deeper into the Russian Empire.
What are some of the largerlet's maybe zoom out, you know, larger,
(14:01):
events and processesthat are happening, during this time.
Yeah.
So the interesting thing is that, theseMennonites, Anabaptists were a lot of them
were wealthy landowners, hard working,and those who were true to the faith.
I want to make an accent that
because there were thosethat kind of got acculturated, right.
(14:22):
We have our culture and we're justgoing to live and not really mingle with,
with the Slavs,and we're going to do our own thing.
All right? We're going to live in peace,be the quiet of the land.
But there were those who were faithfuland who were, revived and,
children of God, you could saythat were passionate about their faith,
and they would inevitably witness, andthere would be converts amongst the Slavs.
(14:46):
So these Slavs,
alongside those who became believersby like, reading the Bible and,
and that kind of thing, wherethose who clung to kingdom principles
and were taking the commands of Christseriously.
So these Slavic converts,whether converted through
(15:07):
the work of the Anabaptists orby reading the scriptures for themselves,
they are the oneswho are not hiding their faith.
They are evangelizing, baptizing people in their locales.
So once Western Anabaptist influence
moves on due to emigration or relocationby the authorities,
(15:29):
it was this Slavic expression of faiththat was left in that area.
So you have these parallel communitiesthat develop separately,
but sharea lot of the same kingdom values.
And these values thriveeven when the atheistic communist
government persecutes the church.
And here again, there's some compromise.
(15:52):
And the loss of these teachings of Christ.
However, others stay faithfuland become what the world knows
today as the persecuted church.
This is really,
really interesting,like tracing this thread
through history and it feels likethere's a chunk of the story at least.
I mean, I haven't heard, you know,and so I and I'm guessing a lot of other
people have forgottenor don't know about it.
(16:15):
But why do you think it's importantthat that we're aware of this, like,
okay, so we're sitting hereand in America, you know, and
and you mentioned how there'sthat part of the scattering.
Right.
Then there's these other groupsand their experience
and that what they went through,what can we learn from them?
Why is that important?
And, and anything elseyou want to share along with that?
(16:36):
I guess that's kind of bringing us more upto present day, as well.
So So when I think about the implicationsof asking that question,
I like to describe it with a termthat I borrowed from anthropology
and kind of give ita little bit of a spiritual twist to it.
So there's this anthropological termcalled ethno centricity,
which is the belief that one's ownethnic group,
(16:57):
nationalityor culture is superior to others.
And so when I first found out about it,I was like, well,
is there a possibility that some peoplecan be or groups or communities
or churches can have a spiritual
sort of ethno centricityand considering that, their culture
(17:18):
or their specific way of doing thingsis superior to others.
And as I got thinking about that,the thought occurred that
you don't even have to thinkthat way, that you're superior.
It's by disregarding or
omitting the experiencesof other cultures,
(17:38):
especially where Christ and Godhave worked.
And if you kind of disregard them,if they're not part of your experience,
I believe that it's very easyfor this spiritual kind of ethno
centricity to creep inand begin to be part of your life
and be part of your worldviewand that kind of thing.
(17:59):
So I believe thatit is in our best interest
to develop an awareness of the issueschurches,
especially the persecutedchurch, are facing
and how other contexts of KingdomChristianity have approached
various facets of the faith.
As in, we have a lot to learnfrom these people basically.
(18:21):
Right.
Like like it's easyto look at our experience
in total isolation and just be like hereit is, you know, and you're saying,
well let's, let's expandour perspective a bit or let's
have an awareness of the
experience of others that went throughthrough what you've been describing here.
Is that a fair way of saying it?
yeah, I agree with what you're saying.
(18:42):
And in order to be ableto learn from something,
you need to know that it exists.
This is true.
Yeah, that's a good point because again,I think a lot of the story you're telling,
I, I'mguessing a lot of people don't know it.
I mean, this is a lotthis is new for me, you know.
So let's get a little more specific.
So we're here in America, right?
We’re North American Anabaptists,I guess you could say, what can we learn
(19:04):
from these people who have went througha different experience?
Right.
These other groupsthat maybe we don't have an awareness of,
practically speaking,what are some examples we can learn from?
Yeah.
So one that comes to mind right offthe bat is the way that the persecuted
So one that comes to mind right offthe bat is the way that the persecuted
church, found to keep childrenand youth plugged into the church.
(19:25):
So let's remember the context.
You have an atheistic governmentthat, is bent on destroying Christianity.
And, under the communist regime,the church that was faithful
needed to find a wayto keep their children.
And when I say faithful,I say it's because there was a church
that wasn't faithful, as historyhas shown,
(19:48):
to Christ and was under the authorityof the government.
And an interesting story is my momactually remembers when, as a little girl,
going to such a church with her momand being held up
and not allowed to comein, as these government
sanctioned churches were not supposedto have children in the service.
And so right there at the door,there were deacons or other ministers,
(20:09):
and they were letting the adults come in,but the children had to stay out.
And the way
my mom described the situation,it was tragic.
It was it was terrifying.
She had was basically told to separate
from her mother,but the situation was such.
I guessthere was some kind of a fuss involved.
And they said, okay,
you can go sit somewhere in the backhidden from you and that kind of thing,
(20:33):
but just imagine that kind of situationcoming to a town near you.
so the faithful church said, no,our children will be
with us during the serviceand they were persecuted for it.
So under a time persecution where it'shard to do any kind of evangelism,
you you're left with the question of,well, what are you going to do
with your children?
(20:53):
How are you going to plug them into,
your faithand make sure that it becomes their own?
And their solutionwas involving the children
and young people and encouraging themto participate in the service.
Beyond just congregational singing.
Right.
So if I think about, Anabaptist contexttoday
(21:14):
at our time, how do the children
and young people participateduring the regular worship service?
And, well,there's Sunday school, right, for churches
that have, Sunday school that providessome level of interaction participation.
But I'm thinking ofjust the general worship service.
The extent to which they can dosomething, is sing with the congregation.
(21:38):
And I'm not aware of much else.
So the persecuted churchtook this approach.
Their belief was thatthere was a legitimate way for children
and youth to express themselvesin the spirit of First Corinthians 14:26,
which says, whenever you come together,each of you that has a psalm,
has a teaching, has a tongue, hasa revelation, has an interpretation.
(22:00):
Let all things be done for edification.
So they were encouraged these children,
young people, to share scriptures,Christian poetry and songs
during the service and be integrated
in that way to the worship experience.
And this added
dimension of involvementis something that I see sadly missing
(22:22):
from a lot of the Anabaptist contextsin our conservative circles.
And I think that's one clear areawhere we could learn from the experience
of the persecuted church, and to seehow can we facilitate
the integration of the generations into,the worship service
and into Christian life in general.
(22:45):
So that's been the experience
of the Slavic Anabaptists.
But I also want to say about,
German Anabaptists who have, after
the generations that they were removedfrom their homeland.
Remember that?
I said they kept their, ethnicity.
They kept their High German and their LowGerman, so they kept their culture.
(23:08):
So starting in the 1980s,a lot of them were able to come back
and they, started settlementsessentially, or communities.
And here they arehave having been removed from the culture
or developed so differently,while sharing the same language.
And they find out that while the valuesof the Germans are not our values.
(23:33):
so it's not a secretthat Europe today is very secular,
very low priority placed on, true faith
and generally just the number of orthe level of Christianity has went down.
so these ethnic Germans are
now back in their homecountry and are faced with a dilemma.
(23:54):
What are we going to do?
How are we going to pass on our valuesto, our children?
And the additional layer of challengethat they have
is that you can'thave things like homeschooling.
There it's illegal under German law.
So that leaves, public school.
And as I understand, in the public schools
(24:15):
in Germany and in Europe are in some way
even more progressivethan what we've been seeing here.
And again,not having the option to homeschool.
So the Christian school movement
in Germany is under 20 years old,
So there are German congregations
that would have the same values,similar values to us.
(24:37):
And they're saying, no, we don't wantthe world to educate our children. So,
from that came this development
of the Christian school movementin Germany.
And that movement is under 20 years old.
Oh, wow.
And so right now,to the best of my knowledge,
there are under ten schools in Germanythat would have values similar
(25:02):
to our Christian day schoolsand where I live in Lancaster County.
I wouldn't be surprisedif there are around
50 schoolsthat would share similar values.
But Germany is the size of Montana,
so compare that that size difference thereand much more densely populated.
And I think Montana's.
(25:24):
So that's that they kind of answers.
One of the questions actually Ihad is like, where are these people today?
Right.
You're kind of tracing this storyand the scattering that's happening.
But if I'm tracking correctly,you know, a number of these people
that fled east, right,have have come back to Germany.
Right?
And now one of these thingsspecifically you're mentioning is now
(25:45):
this new thing of Christian educationor like starting schools, for them.
Wow. Like, I kindof want to meet these people now, right?
Like, how how have we not heard thatthat all these Anabaptist
or Anabaptist mindedpeople are still there, you know?
You know,so one of the reasons for that is that,
some of the more conservative groupsthat would, would have
(26:08):
similar values to us, they're not
they don't have as much of an online
presence that that we would think is finewith having
is just the way their traditionsand, their, their contexts developed.
So that's part of the reason is they're,they're not as much of the group,
not as much partof a global community as,
(26:31):
as we may we may be
I mean, that's not to say that they'redoing it wrong.
It's just,
they're not as visible.
however, I just want to assure youthat, yes,
kingdomvalues are alive in places like Germany.
And like I said earlier,it is in our best interests
(26:51):
that we connect inwhatever ways we can with these people
that share our values and see
how can we help each other
Well that's a key piece then,because I can imagine some listeners
hearing this and saying oh okay,I want to have,
I want to, I want to know more likeI want to have more awareness
(27:12):
of these other groupsthat maybe across Europe and other places,
how can how can they start,how can we start raising more awareness
of these different groups and, at least acknowledge that
they exist or I, I'm not even surewhat the next moves would be here,
but it feels likethis is really significant.
And of course, I want tojust put that out there of,
you know,if some of these people are over there
(27:34):
and hear this podcast, like, reach out,you know, like, maybe we could connect.
I mean, I'd love to interview some of themand get their story, you know, as well.
But yeah, I'd be curiouswhat you have to say to that.
Sure.
So in my mind,you have to start with a desire.
There must be an awareness and a desire
to get to knowa different facet of the kingdom of God.
And where God has worked.
(27:54):
So something that comes to mind is,
if you're planning a trip to Europe,make it more than just a vacation.
Plan to visit one of their churches.
I know people that haveand were enriched by the experience.
You'll find things that are different,but you'll also find like aha moments.
Wow. You know,that is very fascinating and neat.
something specific that comes to mind is, the one church that I have some contact
(28:19):
with is they have a church yearbook,and we know of, like, school yearbooks.
Right. But this is a church yearbook.
And if you were to look at that yearbook,you would see a table
with all the services who preachedand what they preached about.
That's a short summary of that.
And then you would have things like,what are some things that happened
in the life of the church?
(28:39):
What are some ministries?
What were the young people doingwho was baptized?
Who was born? Right?
And then over the years,
you get a collection of memoriesthat allows you to look back and see
where arewhere are we compared to ten years ago?
Where are we compared to, suchand such a time and place?
One thing I find is that,like the American Anabaptists,
(29:02):
we love going back to the 1500sand saying that's where we came from.
Or the ante-Nicene fathers.
And we still hold true to that faith,but then we are not often
as well-versed in more recent history
of, well, what has happened in the past100 years or 200 years?
What have some shifts,
been that that have happenedthat I need to know about?
(29:25):
And I do really applaud the the brothers,the historians among us who who take
initiative in finding out that historyto make sure it's not forgotten.
So I really appreciate that.
And if you're involved in that effort,then that's great.
If you're if you're listening to this,I just want to bless you in continuing
that work, in raisingawareness of of history, because it's
(29:47):
such a critical partof the of the Christian experience.
So another thing
that comes to mindis if you come from a background
that has, knowledge of High German,that could open doors for you.
So going back to what I saidabout the preacher,
I went with, in 2014, brother Mose,
(30:08):
he came from an Amish background,and then he got to visit,
Germany, I think it was the 1970s.
And he was really inspiredby the Christians that have,
at that point, just started coming backfrom the former Soviet Union.
And it really profoundly impacted hishis Christian life.
(30:29):
He just saw the fervor of these brothersthat were just a couple of years
ago, persecuted,may have spent time in prison,
and it really hada profound impact on his life.
So he came backand he attended night classes
to learn High German was able to,
I guess because of his Amish background,aquire it rather efficiently.
(30:53):
And then when he went back,he was able to converse with them
and able to exchange ideasand and this whole thing
which really impacted,his spiritual walk positively.
like I
said, there's an interestin the Christian school movement,
to create connection between the,
(31:15):
Anabaptist schools hereand the Anabaptist schools over there.
This could look somethinglike a pen pal program.
And at least one of my contacts askedabout a school exchange program of sorts.
And that's the discussionI'm in right now.
When preparing for this interviewI asked one of my contacts
(31:36):
in Germany is like, what would you sayif you were in my place?
And he right away said that there is aneed for Christian school teachers there.
The difficulty in Germany
is that the German government,who oversees all the aspects
of the education in the country,has strict requirements
for teachers in order to become certifiedand teach legally.
(31:59):
And one of those isyou must have, at minimum,
a master's degree in order to be ableto teach at a public school.
There. Whoa.
Okay, that's, that's a major investment.
You know, I it's a it's a equip bout a sixyear process to get a master's degree.
For those listening. Wow.
Yeah.
So maybe you're in the processof getting a higher education
(32:22):
and are looking for ways to serve Addingsomething like Tesol
training to your degree may open up doorsyou've never dreamed of.
That's true.
All of this is fascinating,and I really want to know more.
I hope we can pursue this,topic on the podcast in the future.
I feel like there's a there'sa big piece here that we've been missing.
(32:45):
Or at least I've been missing.
I mean, maybe other people know this,but I haven't heard this before.
So as we wrap this up and kind of tiethe ribbons on this topic, so to speak,
what is something you would like to leavewith the listeners?
Yeah. So two things.
One is if I said somethingthat resonated with you
and you would like to contact me,I would be glad to discuss this topic.
(33:06):
I'm I'm very passionate about it.
I'm going through schooling of my ownright now, with the intended goal
of moving to Germany for at leasta couple of years and serving in that way.
And to get to know, the community there,
because I place a lot of valueon the things that I was talking about.
I certainly don't want to bein the category of being spiritually
(33:29):
ethnocentric.
And, just allowing that lineof thinking of superiority
to cloud my vision of Christand his kingdom.
And that would be my recommendationfor, for everybody.
So to contact me,you can just get in touch
with Anabaptist perspectives and they'llbe glad to make the connection there.
And lastly, I just want to leave youwith one quote that has spoken to me,
(33:51):
by Ralph Waldo Emerson,which says, the mind, once
stretched by a new ideanever returns to its original dimensions.
And my hopeis that by listening to this podcast,
your mind has been stretchedjust a little bit
so that you can be more awareof the possibilities that are out there,
the possibilities of serving Christ,the possibilities of what is happening
(34:14):
in the world todaythat wants to align itself
with, kingdom values and somethingthat has meant so much to us here,
and how all these different partscan be connected, because in the end,
we're going to be in heaven together,Lord willing.
And I think that starting the process
(34:35):
of getting to know each other and helpingeach other's needs, serving each other,
would be best to do here on Earth.
That's, Wow,you gave us a lot to think about.
And that's a wonderful pieceto end us with.
And yeah,
I just want to reaffirm that if someonewatching this has more information
(34:55):
and wants to learn more and wantsto connect with you or us or something,
yeah, definitely get in touch.
You can easily do thatthrough our website or or something.
Because, yeah,I feel like this is a topic
we're going to want to come back to you.
And, maybe when you move to Germanyand get settled in there,
maybe we'll come over thereand interview you
and kind of see how it's goingand meet some of these people.
That would bethat would be amazing. So, yeah.
(35:16):
Thanks so much for coming on todayand for sharing this.
Yeah.
And thank you for having meas a guest here on the podcast.
And blessings to you as you continuethis work of asking what I believe
to be the right questionsand yeah, may God use you
to impact, the world for for his glory.
Yeah. Thank you. Yuriy.
Thanks for listening to this episodewith Yuriy.
(35:38):
We did a previous episode with him
telling this story about how he was bornin Ukraine behind the Iron Curtain,
and ultimately found his way to Americaand the Anabaptist movement.
You can find thatlinked in the description down below.
We also have an email newsletter,which you can sign up for
on our websiteat Anabaptistperspectives.org.
Thanks againand we'll see you in the next episode.
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