February 6, 2025 • 24 mins
Supporting those suffering from mental illness is hard, complicated, and fraught with many opinions. Elizabeth shares some principles for how our communities can care for, and be gracious towards, those suffering from mental illness.
Episode on Abuse in the Church:
This is the 253rd episode of Anabaptist Perspectives, a podcast, blog, and YouTube channel that examines various aspects of conservative Anabaptist life and thought.
Sign-up for our monthly email newsletter which contains new and featured content!
Join us on Patreon or become a website partner to enjoy bonus content!
Visit our YouTube channel or connect on Facebook.
Read essays from our blog or listen to them on our podcast, Essays for King Jesus
Subscribe on your podcast provider of choice
Support us or learn more at anabaptistperspectives.org.
The views expressed by our guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Anabaptist Perspectives or Wellspring Mennonite Church.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think one of the,
mental health concerns in our conservative
customs, is to relate to itas a spiritual problem.
If we do that first spiritual,
second of all problem,that means go to the ministers
and that shoves it away from me.
Not my problem,go to the support team, not my problem.
(00:22):
Or just read your Bible more.
Or just read your Bible more.
You know, just shape it up.
You know, if you'd pray more,if you'd have more faith, fast more
whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Then that pushes it, you know, to a placethat we are comfortable with.
We have to be willing to bea little uncomfortable.
(00:48):
Elizabeth,
welcome to the Anabaptist Perspectivespodcast.
We did a previous episode with youon your work as a, as a social worker
and also one on, on your testimony.
So we're not going to really getinto those things
necessarily, people can check those outin the, in the description.
But today I want to dive into something
that's kind of more of a sobering,yeah, topic.
(01:08):
And that's how do we support and carefor those suffering from mental illness?
This is not somethingthat's talked about that much.
And I don't knowif you want to get into any of that
as far as like stigmas, stigmasgo and so forth.
But, specifically, how do we carehow can we be
gracious towardsthose that are going through this
or have a family membergoing through this?
(01:30):
What what can we do?
That's that's that's the big
I think the big question for everybody,what can we do?
It's difficult.
It's messy and it's controversial.
So, the context that I come,
am coming from is not so muchas a mental health professional,
(01:51):
although technically that is whatI would be considered by occupation.
As a licensed social worker,I would be able
to diagnose and treat and counseland do all of that.
However, I am speaking
as a Mennonite ladywho has a social work education
(02:11):
who's been thrown in the muddleand seen a few things.
During my studies for my,
graduate school,I did a paper on the support networks
that we as conservativepeople put together
to help families in crisis.
You'll hear meuse the term mental health diagnosis.
(02:34):
That's the politically correct term.
Today could change in a few years.
So that's kind of the preferred statement.
So I probably slipinto my teacher speak. So,
which is
different because we from a conservativesetting don't grab
onto those, those changesand those things.
(02:57):
But that word illness, the reason
that has been,you know, kind of pulled back is because
if you say someone has an illness,then you're saying, fix that problem.
If I have a tumor, I go to the doctor,fix that problem.
We call that the medical model.
I have a problem.
(03:18):
You're going to fix it.
But we can't look at people that way
because we can't fix people.
If somebody is bornwith muscular dystrophy
we can't fix the muscular dystrophy.
We can work with it.
We can help them to have optimal healthand a good life.
But we can't fix the muscular dystrophy.
(03:39):
So now we change that paradigm
over to mental health.
And okay,so they've got a mental health diagnosis.
It's a little easier to look at itas what we would call the social model.
How are we going to dealwith this as a community?
How are we going tolook at the entire person,
not just what's going on in their brain,but the whole person?
(04:03):
That's when you get into social workand the whole person
standpoint, of looking at how you're goingto help somebody through it.
And isn't that maybe how we as a churchwant to look at things,
especially people in crisis and difficulty
is how how are we goingto do that as a community?
So that,
(04:26):
you know, the definition of mental illness
can can go from one place to another?
Yes. It's probably what I would useto describe the person that is,
not stable with medication
and their behaviors, making itso that they cannot function.
They probably have a mental illness.
(04:48):
Yeah. They should see a doctor.
Doesn't mean it's going to
always. Medicationisn't always the answer.
And, you know, we have this tendencywe're going to either really spiritualize
it or we're really going to make ita physiological thing, you know?
And so of courselet's find a middle ground, you know.
So but it's tough. Yes.
(05:09):
The reason there's stigma,I would say, you know, it's messy stuff.
It's out of the boxand none of us like to go out of our box.
We might all have different boxes,different sizes,
but none of us likes to go out of our box,you know?
So I think that's partof where stigma comes in. stigma.
And it doesn't feel like it's
(05:31):
talked about that much either.
It's just likewe just don't really go there.
And maybe that's just becausewe don't know what to do with it,
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
When I did my my paper,
I sent out interviews and questionnaires.
And I also interviewedpeople who were served by support teams.
(05:53):
And what I mean by a supportteam is our traditional way of gathering
2 or 3 couples to work with a person
during a crisis situation,a person or a family.
And so I got the input from all angles,
from those that served on a support team
and those who are servedby a support team.
(06:14):
And so I just kind of gathered up,you know, a lot of information from that
that might answer some of your questions,
more fromfrom the viewpoint of the people.
And to be completely blunt,I've been on both sides.
So I kind of have aheart for both, both angles.
(06:35):
So I think one of the,
mental health concerns in our conservative
customs, is to relate to itas a spiritual problem.
If we do that first spiritual,
second of all problem,that means go to the ministers
and that shoves it away from me.
(06:56):
Not my problem,go to the support team, not my problem.
Or just read your Bible more.
You know, just shape it up.
You know, if you'd pray more,if you'd have more faith, fast more
whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Then that pushes it, you know, to a placethat we are comfortable with.
(07:16):
We have to be willing to bea little uncomfortable.
Jesus was willing to bea little uncomfortable.
Maybe it would be okay if I am okay withbeing uncomfortable because until heaven,
you know, we will be.
So, if we approach mental illness
from a community or social perspective,
(07:40):
then it's going to takesome of the negative stigma away
because it's not you.
If you were a personwho was having something going on.
Now, I'm not sayingthere's something wrong with you.
It's like, what can we do
to get through this together?
So that's the shift that I feelhas been longed for
(08:05):
from those who have gone through it,who have had somebody in their
in their home or in their familythat is struggling in that way,
with my specialty or whatever,
being people with disabilities, it'sbeen an interesting contrast.
(08:26):
Some of the best care I've ever seen
is an Amish householdtaking care of a special needs individual.
I mean, it just
we got that
we as a conservative people,we do that very, very well.
And those individuals are caredfor so well,
(08:48):
they're treated culturally,almost like angels unawares.
And it's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Now let's shift that.
What if the schizophrenic farmerwho talks to himself
while he's outplowing is treated the same way?
What about the young mother
who absolutely cannot copeafter she had a baby
(09:11):
because she's plunged into some weirdkind of postpartum depression?
You know, what if we embraced them
and their situation in the same way?
So that's that's a thoughtthat I just kind of want to leave
with the listeners of,you know, if we could take,
that well care.
(09:32):
So we look at you know, the individualthat is brain damaged
through whatever situationand we go, oh, he can't help it.
You know, he was born that way.
We'll take care of him as God made him who’s to say that the schizophrenic farmer,
I mean
God made his brain, you know,I mean, it's it's proven
that schizophreniais a malfunction of the brain organ.
(09:56):
You know, they can do all the neuroscienceand point where and the whole bit.
So what if we treat him as a community
the same way this iswhat God has put in our church group.
This is what God has assigned to us.
How can we love him well.
But it's uncomfortable and it's messy.
(10:19):
So practically
then what's, what's somethingthe listeners that’s hearing this is okay.
What's, what's something they could do.
Like let's get practical.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad you asked.
I'm glad you asked.
So with this school paperwhat I came up with was
I kind of walked away with a message
(10:39):
from the peoplethat have been served by support groups.
And I've come across,kind of received a message
for those who served on the supportgroups.
And so, support is really
a big word that I would likepeople think about.
I'm not talking about financial support.
I mean that that is a validtopic, but for a whole nother
(11:02):
a whole nother place.
I'm talking about,you know, spiritual support, not teaching,
not indoctrining, but supportholding up the arms during the battle.
How are we holding upthe arms of the family
or the suffering individualduring the battle?
I think we would do well to ask Christ.
(11:24):
Ask the Lord, how do you want meto be your hands in this?
And that answer is going to be differentfor different people
according to their talents and callings.
You know, a preacherwho is preparing for his Sunday
lesson on Sunday morning is not the personthat should drive the person to church.
You know, you do where you're called,how you're called.
(11:46):
You know, that is part of it.
But ministering to the heart of the peoplethat we are trying to support
must be done in a way that promotesdignity, value and validation.
The participants of the project
expressed a feeling of being worked oninstead of worked with.
So these are these are peopleyou interviewed for this research you did.
(12:11):
For my project,you know, and and they felt like
they were trying to be fixed,like they were a problem to be solved.
They wanted someone walking next to them,not in front of them, pulling them along.
A lot of them talk felt like they werebeing, like, yanked on a leash.
Come this way.This is how we be a Mennonite.
You know, kind of a thing.
(12:31):
They're just trying to get by day by day.
And we bring in our cultureand our own expectations.
We have to loosen those, first of all,in order to even accept their situation.
But they want to be worked with, not on.
And, building a relationship is first,
you're not going to help anybodyif you haven't built a relationship.
(12:54):
When Jesus was healing people,what did he do?
He asked their name.
He asked what your situation was.
He knew the person was lame.
He knew how many hairs were on his head.
But he engaged the person first.
That's a good point.
What do you want from me?
What can I do for you?
You know. Why are you here?
(13:15):
Say it.
Let's embrace your situation now.
Let's go.
It feels like there's a pretty significantframing difference
when you use the wordwith in that sentence.
Definitely. The.
When you're working on something,you're already separating that person.
I'm working on you.
I'm trying to make you conform towhat I think of.
(13:39):
If I'm working with then the person say,
this is a person that's livingwith a mental health diagnosis.
What are your goals?
What do you want to function?
You know, now, yes.
Maybe somebody who's really deep into
maybe some psychosis or whatever,their goals aren't even very clear.
And they needyou need family to come in and say, well,
(14:01):
you know, you know, all the chickensin the chicken house are dying.
Maybe we need to
but but still it feels like you,
that terminologyuse there gives in my mind
I automatically think of walking alongsidesomeone like on a journey or something.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you're and you're there and you'resupporting whatever that seems like
(14:22):
that makes a fundamental different imagein our heads.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And that would be the shift from a problemto fix
to a situation to embrace.
You know let's just embrace this and
you know a crisis can be viewedas something that
(14:43):
could be given to the church.
Like the Lord says,hey church, this is this is your quiz.
This is, this is what I have for you.
How are you going to respond to this?
This is the journeyI have for you at this time.
So I guess that's where my my view goes.
Another thing that the people really,showed up a lot in the surveys
(15:07):
was education.
So, that they wish that people
would ask them questionsabout the condition in the situation
and, and look into it and learn about it
either experientially or,
you know, by actually reading.
(15:28):
And now I will put a little thing in therethat doesn't mean,
oh, you know, I looked it upand you should take, you know, Buddy’s
magic wonder pillsbecause that cures autism.
You know, that is notwhat people are looking for, okay.
But that understanding, that openness,that curiosity that I am willing to
come into your journey and find out
(15:50):
what is what is Janet's therapy like?
You know, I'd like to see you doher physical therapy every day, you know.
Or can I come along with you when you goover to Phil Haven for your appointment?
I'll just sit in the waiting room.
But just so that you're.
You know what these folks are,
going through building context
(16:11):
or something or awareness to really.
Like a pretty base level.
Then you'll have something to give
and you will know what to give.
You know, if you'regoing through this journey with someone
and you find out that, okay, well,this is a person that really like
they are not for medications,they are not for doctoring.
(16:32):
Well, then, you know, don't don't even
you don't have to go down that roadwith them.
Yeah. Build the relationship first.
Then you're in much less dangerof saying the wrong thing,
which is really isn'tthat what we're all afraid of?
Saying the wrong thing?
it sounds like what you're outlining here,
is a lot more work
(16:53):
or like harder to do itbecause, you know, we're humans,
we kind of like the easy pathor the shortcuts. Right.
Where's the To-Do listor that's the one option or the other.
Could be perhaps.
Oh, the stigma.
I was like, well, we're
just not really going to talk about thatbecause we don't really want to,
you know, deal with that. Yeah.
What you're describing sounds.
(17:13):
Yeah.
Like you take a lot of time,you know, a lot of care,
a lot of loving on people and so forthand a lot of other things, obviously.
But, Yeah.
It sounds it sounds like.
Yeah, it'd be you'd have to invest a lotinto this, Well and that's what I found.
Is that significant damage has been donebecause people did not take the time
(17:33):
or possess the humility to truly learnabout various conditions.
It takes determination and timeand empathy
to enter into the challengesfaced by some of these people.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Chronic health issues,mental health issues, special needs,
financial crisis, whatever.
(17:53):
We can invite speakers in on topicswe can pass around, informative books.
We can engage in conversations.
If I know you
well, I, you know, I can study a topic
or ask you for information you recommend.
You know, those are all methods that
(18:14):
any of us can pour
into one another.
So this is obviously
a very complex and multifaceted topic.
You know people spend their lifetimesstudying this and so forth.
So we're never going to cover everythingright in this short episode.
But hopefully this gives some people
some some basic parameters,some frameworks to kind of start with.
(18:36):
And I'm, I'm hoping you know, maybe raises
the level of awareness, you know,to at least start asking the questions.
So as we look at the kind of outlineof what you've presented today
and we wrap this up, what is somethingyou'd like to leave with our audience?
I guess the wholething kind of brought me to this place
where I have, like, I feel likeI can speak as kind of a composite
(18:59):
of all the peoplethat contributed to the questionnaire.
And so to those
who are serving peoplewith needs and challenges,
what I want to say on behalf of those
who need help, so to speak, or are seekingassistance, is
thank youfor being willing to walk with us.
(19:22):
You are courageousand servant hearted person,
and even when we are in too much painto really express that.
Okay, so you're remember that your folks
are sufferingor going through a difficult time.
Frankly, you're viewing a bag of trash.
You are seeing my trash.
(19:44):
So you need to be graciousgoing into that.
And it's appreciatedwhen that happens because
we as people are going through
a crisis, may not be able to see thatreally clearly right now.
Okay.
And our communication
might be suffering as a resultof everything that has happened.
So don't take us as a projector a problem, but as a opportunity
(20:08):
for the church to grow and,
help the church to show Christ
in all things take us seriously.
And if we've experienced abuse,
that's going to complicate.
And you can see the other the podcast
that you did on on some of those issues,but you have to remember
(20:32):
that a personis only going to disclose as much.
They might just give you a little tasteto see if you're safe.
Yeah.
Don't react.
Just let them. They are.
They don't even know if I tell youjust this little bit and you overreact,
I'm going to pull back, okay?
And we're not going to be ableto build relationship,
(20:54):
and you're not going to be ableto speak into what's going on.
So just walk in with humility
and open heartednessand don't try to fix the problem.
Concentrate on the relationship.
So, that's that's what I kind of,
you know, there's just a lot of damagedone and a lot of trash.
(21:14):
It's messy and that there's just no wayto go around it.
To those who are being supportedby the support teams,
rememberthat we are handling a bag of trash
to someone who has volunteeredand has a lot of other things to do,
but loves usenough to be willing to help them.
Even if they're making mistakes,they at least have a heart to help.
(21:38):
And that's hard to rememberwhen you yourself are hurting
or going through that.
We have to remember thatwe're all sinful, clumsy creatures.
And so,
things don't just always
click to a successful outcome.
And that's the thing.
We're very outcome driven as people,you know, we gotta fix this.
We gotta have a successful outcome.
(22:00):
But if we concentrate on the journey,we're we're better off.
So this is messy stuff.
And Jesus gets that.
Jesus understands messy.
He's not watching for certain exactresults.
He's watching to see how we all relate
to each other in him.
(22:20):
So it isn't always pretty andit doesn't have tidy, complete conclusions
supporting peoplelike the ones in the Luke 14 banquet
is messy and it's tricky.
It's it's the lame, it'sthe salt, it's the feeble minded.
Okay?
And really, we're all there at some point.
If nothing else, at the moment we kneelbefore the cross, broken by our sins.
(22:44):
That's where we are.
But we all have our days and our ways.
So tap into that compassion.
Tap into the redeeming source of power.
Do you have what it takes?
Well, if you have Christ, you do.
Yeah.
That's, some powerful piecesto leave with our audience.
(23:04):
I think you're giving people a lotto think about here.
And I really hope they can takesome pieces out of this and say
oh yeah I should be aware of that.
I should think about that.
I shouldI should learn more about this so I can
I can help supportand, care for people around me.
So I really appreciate you taking the timeto come on today, especially because,
you know, we're talking abouta kind of a bleak and complicated topic.
(23:26):
So so thank you for what you shared today.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to
this episode with Elisabethon supporting those in crisis.
If you're interested in learning
more about this,we interviewed Janelle Glick on Trauma
Informed Churches, and you can find thatlinked in the description down below.
Of course, all our content is over onour website at anabaptistperspectives.org.
(23:51):
Thanks againand we'll see you in the next episode.
I think one of the,
mental health concerns in our conservative
customs, is to relate to itas a spiritual problem.
If we do that first spiritual,
second of all problem,that means go to the ministers
and that shoves it away from me.
Not my problem,go to the support team, not my problem.
(00:22):
Or just read your Bible more.
Or just read your Bible more.
You know, just shape it up.
You know, if you'd pray more,if you'd have more faith, fast more
whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Then that pushes it, you know, to a placethat we are comfortable with.
We have to be willing to bea little uncomfortable.
(00:48):
Elizabeth,
welcome to the Anabaptist Perspectivespodcast.
We did a previous episode with youon your work as a, as a social worker
and also one on, on your testimony.
So we're not going to really getinto those things
necessarily, people can check those outin the, in the description.
But today I want to dive into something
that's kind of more of a sobering,yeah, topic.
(01:08):
And that's how do we support and carefor those suffering from mental illness?
This is not somethingthat's talked about that much.
And I don't knowif you want to get into any of that
as far as like stigmas, stigmasgo and so forth.
But, specifically, how do we carehow can we be
gracious towardsthose that are going through this
or have a family membergoing through this?
(01:30):
What what can we do?
That's that's that's the big
I think the big question for everybody,what can we do?
It's difficult.
It's messy and it's controversial.
So, the context that I come,
am coming from is not so muchas a mental health professional,
(01:51):
although technically that is whatI would be considered by occupation.
As a licensed social worker,I would be able
to diagnose and treat and counseland do all of that.
However, I am speaking
as a Mennonite ladywho has a social work education
(02:11):
who's been thrown in the muddleand seen a few things.
During my studies for my,
graduate school,I did a paper on the support networks
that we as conservativepeople put together
to help families in crisis.
You'll hear meuse the term mental health diagnosis.
(02:34):
That's the politically correct term.
Today could change in a few years.
So that's kind of the preferred statement.
So I probably slipinto my teacher speak. So,
which is
different because we from a conservativesetting don't grab
onto those, those changesand those things.
(02:57):
But that word illness, the reason
that has been,you know, kind of pulled back is because
if you say someone has an illness,then you're saying, fix that problem.
If I have a tumor, I go to the doctor,fix that problem.
We call that the medical model.
I have a problem.
(03:18):
You're going to fix it.
But we can't look at people that way
because we can't fix people.
If somebody is bornwith muscular dystrophy
we can't fix the muscular dystrophy.
We can work with it.
We can help them to have optimal healthand a good life.
But we can't fix the muscular dystrophy.
(03:39):
So now we change that paradigm
over to mental health.
And okay,so they've got a mental health diagnosis.
It's a little easier to look at itas what we would call the social model.
How are we going to dealwith this as a community?
How are we going tolook at the entire person,
not just what's going on in their brain,but the whole person?
(04:03):
That's when you get into social workand the whole person
standpoint, of looking at how you're goingto help somebody through it.
And isn't that maybe how we as a churchwant to look at things,
especially people in crisis and difficulty
is how how are we goingto do that as a community?
So that,
(04:26):
you know, the definition of mental illness
can can go from one place to another?
Yes. It's probably what I would useto describe the person that is,
not stable with medication
and their behaviors, making itso that they cannot function.
They probably have a mental illness.
(04:48):
Yeah. They should see a doctor.
Doesn't mean it's going to
always. Medicationisn't always the answer.
And, you know, we have this tendencywe're going to either really spiritualize
it or we're really going to make ita physiological thing, you know?
And so of courselet's find a middle ground, you know.
So but it's tough. Yes.
(05:09):
The reason there's stigma,I would say, you know, it's messy stuff.
It's out of the boxand none of us like to go out of our box.
We might all have different boxes,different sizes,
but none of us likes to go out of our box,you know?
So I think that's partof where stigma comes in. stigma.
And it doesn't feel like it's
(05:31):
talked about that much either.
It's just likewe just don't really go there.
And maybe that's just becausewe don't know what to do with it,
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
When I did my my paper,
I sent out interviews and questionnaires.
And I also interviewedpeople who were served by support teams.
(05:53):
And what I mean by a supportteam is our traditional way of gathering
2 or 3 couples to work with a person
during a crisis situation,a person or a family.
And so I got the input from all angles,
from those that served on a support team
and those who are servedby a support team.
(06:14):
And so I just kind of gathered up,you know, a lot of information from that
that might answer some of your questions,
more fromfrom the viewpoint of the people.
And to be completely blunt,I've been on both sides.
So I kind of have aheart for both, both angles.
(06:35):
So I think one of the,
mental health concerns in our conservative
customs, is to relate to itas a spiritual problem.
If we do that first spiritual,
second of all problem,that means go to the ministers
and that shoves it away from me.
(06:56):
Not my problem,go to the support team, not my problem.
Or just read your Bible more.
You know, just shape it up.
You know, if you'd pray more,if you'd have more faith, fast more
whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Then that pushes it, you know, to a placethat we are comfortable with.
(07:16):
We have to be willing to bea little uncomfortable.
Jesus was willing to bea little uncomfortable.
Maybe it would be okay if I am okay withbeing uncomfortable because until heaven,
you know, we will be.
So, if we approach mental illness
from a community or social perspective,
(07:40):
then it's going to takesome of the negative stigma away
because it's not you.
If you were a personwho was having something going on.
Now, I'm not sayingthere's something wrong with you.
It's like, what can we do
to get through this together?
So that's the shift that I feelhas been longed for
(08:05):
from those who have gone through it,who have had somebody in their
in their home or in their familythat is struggling in that way,
with my specialty or whatever,
being people with disabilities, it'sbeen an interesting contrast.
(08:26):
Some of the best care I've ever seen
is an Amish householdtaking care of a special needs individual.
I mean, it just
we got that
we as a conservative people,we do that very, very well.
And those individuals are caredfor so well,
(08:48):
they're treated culturally,almost like angels unawares.
And it's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Now let's shift that.
What if the schizophrenic farmerwho talks to himself
while he's outplowing is treated the same way?
What about the young mother
who absolutely cannot copeafter she had a baby
(09:11):
because she's plunged into some weirdkind of postpartum depression?
You know, what if we embraced them
and their situation in the same way?
So that's that's a thoughtthat I just kind of want to leave
with the listeners of,you know, if we could take,
that well care.
(09:32):
So we look at you know, the individualthat is brain damaged
through whatever situationand we go, oh, he can't help it.
You know, he was born that way.
We'll take care of him as God made him who’s to say that the schizophrenic farmer,
I mean
God made his brain, you know,I mean, it's it's proven
that schizophreniais a malfunction of the brain organ.
(09:56):
You know, they can do all the neuroscienceand point where and the whole bit.
So what if we treat him as a community
the same way this iswhat God has put in our church group.
This is what God has assigned to us.
How can we love him well.
But it's uncomfortable and it's messy.
(10:19):
So practically
then what's, what's somethingthe listeners that’s hearing this is okay.
What's, what's something they could do.
Like let's get practical.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad you asked.
I'm glad you asked.
So with this school paperwhat I came up with was
I kind of walked away with a message
(10:39):
from the peoplethat have been served by support groups.
And I've come across,kind of received a message
for those who served on the supportgroups.
And so, support is really
a big word that I would likepeople think about.
I'm not talking about financial support.
I mean that that is a validtopic, but for a whole nother
(11:02):
a whole nother place.
I'm talking about,you know, spiritual support, not teaching,
not indoctrining, but supportholding up the arms during the battle.
How are we holding upthe arms of the family
or the suffering individualduring the battle?
I think we would do well to ask Christ.
(11:24):
Ask the Lord, how do you want meto be your hands in this?
And that answer is going to be differentfor different people
according to their talents and callings.
You know, a preacherwho is preparing for his Sunday
lesson on Sunday morning is not the personthat should drive the person to church.
You know, you do where you're called,how you're called.
(11:46):
You know, that is part of it.
But ministering to the heart of the peoplethat we are trying to support
must be done in a way that promotesdignity, value and validation.
The participants of the project
expressed a feeling of being worked oninstead of worked with.
So these are these are peopleyou interviewed for this research you did.
(12:11):
For my project,you know, and and they felt like
they were trying to be fixed,like they were a problem to be solved.
They wanted someone walking next to them,not in front of them, pulling them along.
A lot of them talk felt like they werebeing, like, yanked on a leash.
Come this way.This is how we be a Mennonite.
You know, kind of a thing.
(12:31):
They're just trying to get by day by day.
And we bring in our cultureand our own expectations.
We have to loosen those, first of all,in order to even accept their situation.
But they want to be worked with, not on.
And, building a relationship is first,
you're not going to help anybodyif you haven't built a relationship.
(12:54):
When Jesus was healing people,what did he do?
He asked their name.
He asked what your situation was.
He knew the person was lame.
He knew how many hairs were on his head.
But he engaged the person first.
That's a good point.
What do you want from me?
What can I do for you?
You know. Why are you here?
(13:15):
Say it.
Let's embrace your situation now.
Let's go.
It feels like there's a pretty significantframing difference
when you use the wordwith in that sentence.
Definitely. The.
When you're working on something,you're already separating that person.
I'm working on you.
I'm trying to make you conform towhat I think of.
(13:39):
If I'm working with then the person say,
this is a person that's livingwith a mental health diagnosis.
What are your goals?
What do you want to function?
You know, now, yes.
Maybe somebody who's really deep into
maybe some psychosis or whatever,their goals aren't even very clear.
And they needyou need family to come in and say, well,
(14:01):
you know, you know, all the chickensin the chicken house are dying.
Maybe we need to
but but still it feels like you,
that terminologyuse there gives in my mind
I automatically think of walking alongsidesomeone like on a journey or something.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you're and you're there and you'resupporting whatever that seems like
(14:22):
that makes a fundamental different imagein our heads.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And that would be the shift from a problemto fix
to a situation to embrace.
You know let's just embrace this and
you know a crisis can be viewedas something that
(14:43):
could be given to the church.
Like the Lord says,hey church, this is this is your quiz.
This is, this is what I have for you.
How are you going to respond to this?
This is the journeyI have for you at this time.
So I guess that's where my my view goes.
Another thing that the people really,showed up a lot in the surveys
(15:07):
was education.
So, that they wish that people
would ask them questionsabout the condition in the situation
and, and look into it and learn about it
either experientially or,
you know, by actually reading.
(15:28):
And now I will put a little thing in therethat doesn't mean,
oh, you know, I looked it upand you should take, you know, Buddy’s
magic wonder pillsbecause that cures autism.
You know, that is notwhat people are looking for, okay.
But that understanding, that openness,that curiosity that I am willing to
come into your journey and find out
(15:50):
what is what is Janet's therapy like?
You know, I'd like to see you doher physical therapy every day, you know.
Or can I come along with you when you goover to Phil Haven for your appointment?
I'll just sit in the waiting room.
But just so that you're.
You know what these folks are,
going through building context
(16:11):
or something or awareness to really.
Like a pretty base level.
Then you'll have something to give
and you will know what to give.
You know, if you'regoing through this journey with someone
and you find out that, okay, well,this is a person that really like
they are not for medications,they are not for doctoring.
(16:32):
Well, then, you know, don't don't even
you don't have to go down that roadwith them.
Yeah. Build the relationship first.
Then you're in much less dangerof saying the wrong thing,
which is really isn'tthat what we're all afraid of?
Saying the wrong thing?
it sounds like what you're outlining here,
is a lot more work
(16:53):
or like harder to do itbecause, you know, we're humans,
we kind of like the easy pathor the shortcuts. Right.
Where's the To-Do listor that's the one option or the other.
Could be perhaps.
Oh, the stigma.
I was like, well, we're
just not really going to talk about thatbecause we don't really want to,
you know, deal with that. Yeah.
What you're describing sounds.
(17:13):
Yeah.
Like you take a lot of time,you know, a lot of care,
a lot of loving on people and so forthand a lot of other things, obviously.
But, Yeah.
It sounds it sounds like.
Yeah, it'd be you'd have to invest a lotinto this, Well and that's what I found.
Is that significant damage has been donebecause people did not take the time
(17:33):
or possess the humility to truly learnabout various conditions.
It takes determination and timeand empathy
to enter into the challengesfaced by some of these people.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Chronic health issues,mental health issues, special needs,
financial crisis, whatever.
(17:53):
We can invite speakers in on topicswe can pass around, informative books.
We can engage in conversations.
If I know you
well, I, you know, I can study a topic
or ask you for information you recommend.
You know, those are all methods that
(18:14):
any of us can pour
into one another.
So this is obviously
a very complex and multifaceted topic.
You know people spend their lifetimesstudying this and so forth.
So we're never going to cover everythingright in this short episode.
But hopefully this gives some people
some some basic parameters,some frameworks to kind of start with.
(18:36):
And I'm, I'm hoping you know, maybe raises
the level of awareness, you know,to at least start asking the questions.
So as we look at the kind of outlineof what you've presented today
and we wrap this up, what is somethingyou'd like to leave with our audience?
I guess the wholething kind of brought me to this place
where I have, like, I feel likeI can speak as kind of a composite
(18:59):
of all the peoplethat contributed to the questionnaire.
And so to those
who are serving peoplewith needs and challenges,
what I want to say on behalf of those
who need help, so to speak, or are seekingassistance, is
thank youfor being willing to walk with us.
(19:22):
You are courageousand servant hearted person,
and even when we are in too much painto really express that.
Okay, so you're remember that your folks
are sufferingor going through a difficult time.
Frankly, you're viewing a bag of trash.
You are seeing my trash.
(19:44):
So you need to be graciousgoing into that.
And it's appreciatedwhen that happens because
we as people are going through
a crisis, may not be able to see thatreally clearly right now.
Okay.
And our communication
might be suffering as a resultof everything that has happened.
So don't take us as a projector a problem, but as a opportunity
(20:08):
for the church to grow and,
help the church to show Christ
in all things take us seriously.
And if we've experienced abuse,
that's going to complicate.
And you can see the other the podcast
that you did on on some of those issues,but you have to remember
(20:32):
that a personis only going to disclose as much.
They might just give you a little tasteto see if you're safe.
Yeah.
Don't react.
Just let them. They are.
They don't even know if I tell youjust this little bit and you overreact,
I'm going to pull back, okay?
And we're not going to be ableto build relationship,
(20:54):
and you're not going to be ableto speak into what's going on.
So just walk in with humility
and open heartednessand don't try to fix the problem.
Concentrate on the relationship.
So, that's that's what I kind of,
you know, there's just a lot of damagedone and a lot of trash.
(21:14):
It's messy and that there's just no wayto go around it.
To those who are being supportedby the support teams,
rememberthat we are handling a bag of trash
to someone who has volunteeredand has a lot of other things to do,
but loves usenough to be willing to help them.
Even if they're making mistakes,they at least have a heart to help.
(21:38):
And that's hard to rememberwhen you yourself are hurting
or going through that.
We have to remember thatwe're all sinful, clumsy creatures.
And so,
things don't just always
click to a successful outcome.
And that's the thing.
We're very outcome driven as people,you know, we gotta fix this.
We gotta have a successful outcome.
(22:00):
But if we concentrate on the journey,we're we're better off.
So this is messy stuff.
And Jesus gets that.
Jesus understands messy.
He's not watching for certain exactresults.
He's watching to see how we all relate
to each other in him.
(22:20):
So it isn't always pretty andit doesn't have tidy, complete conclusions
supporting peoplelike the ones in the Luke 14 banquet
is messy and it's tricky.
It's it's the lame, it'sthe salt, it's the feeble minded.
Okay?
And really, we're all there at some point.
If nothing else, at the moment we kneelbefore the cross, broken by our sins.
(22:44):
That's where we are.
But we all have our days and our ways.
So tap into that compassion.
Tap into the redeeming source of power.
Do you have what it takes?
Well, if you have Christ, you do.
Yeah.
That's, some powerful piecesto leave with our audience.
(23:04):
I think you're giving people a lotto think about here.
And I really hope they can takesome pieces out of this and say
oh yeah I should be aware of that.
I should think about that.
I shouldI should learn more about this so I can
I can help supportand, care for people around me.
So I really appreciate you taking the timeto come on today, especially because,
you know, we're talking abouta kind of a bleak and complicated topic.
(23:26):
So so thank you for what you shared today.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to
this episode with Elisabethon supporting those in crisis.
If you're interested in learning
more about this,we interviewed Janelle Glick on Trauma
Informed Churches, and you can find thatlinked in the description down below.
Of course, all our content is over onour website at anabaptistperspectives.org.
(23:51):
Thanks againand we'll see you in the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.