March 17, 2025 • 23 mins
On this week's show, I'll be talking about solar panels and schools, but maybe not from the angle you might be expecting. As many of you might know, the government decided that every school in the country would be given a set of solar panels. And the main talk from those in the profession has been why The decision was made that no matter what size your school is, you'll be getting the same number of solar panels.
So very tiny schools will be getting the same number of solar panels as a very big school, which of course doesn't make any sense. However, I don't think I'd be able to make an entire podcast out. of that. And instead, I want to look at the solar panel issue from a different perspective. And that is who's going to own them.
🗒️ Show notes are available on my Medium Blog: https://simonmlewis.medium.com/who-will-own-the-solar-panels-in-primary-schools-and-why-does-nobody-care-c12cf9ae1c20
📌 Subscribe to my newsletter on https://www.anseo.net/subscribe
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Episode Transcript
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MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera:
Hello? (00:00):
undefined
Hello.
You're very welcome to if I were theminister for education, I regular
podcast, where I look at the worldof primary education in Ireland
and let you know what I would do.
If I were the minister foreducation, this is Simon Lewis.
On this week's show, I'll be talking aboutsolar panels and schools, but maybe not
(00:21):
from the angle you might be expecting.
As many of you might know, the governmentdecided that every school in the country
would be given a set of solar panels.
And the main talk from those in theprofession has been why The decision
was made that no matter what sizeyour school is, you'll be getting
(00:44):
the same number of solar panels.
So very tiny schools will begetting the same number of solar
panels as a very big school, whichof course doesn't make any sense.
However, I don't think I'd be ableto make an entire podcast out.
of that.
And instead, I want to look at the solarpanel issue from a different perspective.
(01:08):
And that is who's going to own them.
If you enjoy this podcast, pleaseconsider subscribing to it.
And I'd love to hear your feedbackeither by sending me a message on
X or Instagram or any of the otherplatforms I'm on, or you can simply
review on your favorite podcasting app.
And without further ado, let'sfind out the angle I'm looking at.
(01:36):
I remember watching The Founder.
It was a film released in 2016,nearly 10 years ago, about the
story of McDonald's, of all places.
And You're probably wonderingwhere I'm going to go with this.
But, I was watching it thinking itwas going to be one of these feel good
tales of ambition and perseverancewhere the small man had a dream and
(01:59):
persevered with it and succeeded.
And at first, that'sexactly what it delivered.
A struggling salesman spottingpotential in a small burger joint
and turning it into a global empire.
But as the story unfoldedThe tone darkened.
The character of Ray Kroc, who'sthe main, the anti hero of this
(02:21):
film, his strategy wasn't reallyabout selling burgers in the end.
It was about owning the land.
He didn't just expand McDonald's.
He took control, pushing out theoriginal owners and ensuring his
dominance by controlling the property.
It was a masterclass in paradigmaticsand one that I would think, if
(02:46):
you know me, resonated with me farbeyond McDonald's or fast food.
It reminded me of somethingmuch closer to home.
The recent government rolloutof free solar panels for schools
absolutely is mirroring how theIrish education system works in a
really, to me, a very unsettling way.
(03:08):
While the state is funding theinfrastructure upgrades for the
solar panels, who actually ownsthose panels once they're installed?
Most Irish primary schools, as arestill under church patronage, meaning
that the buildings And any upgradestechnically belong to the Catholic
(03:30):
Church in the Vatican, not in Ireland.
Just like McDonald's, the state fundsand operates the schools, but the
church keeps the ultimate control, i.
e.
Perhaps that's why the founderhad such a profound effect on me.
I guess the only difference is thatit's far easier to eat in a restaurant
(03:54):
that isn't McDonald's than it isnot to attend a school that isn't
under Catholic patronage, or anyreligious patronage for that matter.
Anyway, this arrangement to me,I tell you, is emblematic of the
broader issue in Irish education.
The church owns the infrastructure.
The state funds the running costs,the teachers, many of whom don't
(04:17):
even practice the faith, and expectthem to uphold the religious ethos
in their professional capacity.
But when it comes to actual churchgoing,most of these teachers, and parents,
and school communities don't actuallytake part in the church community.
Now they're willing to work in theseCatholic institutions, the teachers that
(04:40):
is, the parents are willing, very happy insome cases to send their children to these
Catholic institutions, and by that upholdthe ethos, deliver the Catholic sacraments
or take part in the Catholic sacraments,enforce the Catholic rules or obey the
rules and take part fully in the mass.
And for teachers, though, But only ifthey occur during their working day.
(05:05):
Outside of their working day, all of theirmissionary work, these teachers who are
happy to work in catholic schools, allof their faith forming, those who are
happy to work in catholic schools, all oftheir love of teaching children to love
Jesus Christ outside of their working day.
And I was very interested to seean article that was in the I think
(05:26):
it was in the local paper in Corkwhere Cork schools and the Bishop
clashed over communion celebrations.
The teachers were expressing concernover the new diocesan, a diocesan
policy requiring sacramentalpreparations to be held on weekends
and outside of school hours.
Because, when you sign up for areligion, your religion only takes
place between 9 o'clock and 2.
30.
(05:47):
If, to me, and this is whereI have sympathy, people often
accuse me of being anti Catholicor being against Catholicism.
I'm absolutely not, because I think thatif we are to have Catholic schools, and if
this is something that we're supposed tohave and we're supposed to be in favor of,
and it seems to the majority of people arequite happy with it you can't be unhappy
(06:09):
that when the, when Catholicism, whichis supposed to permeate throughout the
school day, they expect you to uphold theethos, they expect you to take part, you
promise to take part in the sacramentsand teach the sacraments and pass on
the love of Jesus Christ and so on.
That doesn't mean it onlyhappens during your school day.
You can, I think if you're goingto sign up to the Catholic church,
(06:31):
part of that deal is that youprepare children for the sacraments.
And if those sacraments take place asthey should , on a weekend mass I'm
sorry, my sympathy dies off a little bit.
If you're if I and my sympathy diesoff for you, if you're happy enough
with everything else, if you'rereluctantly maybe working in a Catholic
school system and you're, then you.
(06:52):
You know then fair enough.
I suppose where I my sympathy is endsa little bit Is that it's because you
don't want to have it on the weekendYou're quite happy Monday to Friday
at nine to have to which you knowessentially by doing that, you're
complicit in some ways, maybe, maybe notovertly complicit, but you're covertly
complicit in keeping that system goingwhere people like me and people who
(07:16):
are from minoritized backgrounds can'tbecome teachers or can't work in these
systems because you have signed up.
To, and you have agreed in an interviewand you have and you quite happily
teach the, the growing love programor whatever it is and defend it when
people like me criticize it and call meanti Catholic when I criticize the fact
(07:36):
that we have this sort of stuff and.
When I, when I see articles like this,when teachers are giving out that they
have to take part in the sacramentsoutside of the school day, which I think,
actually, to be fair, in most areas ofthe country, that is the general practice,
and maybe this wasn't the general practicein Cork, but at the end of the day,
this is, you, you are an employee of theCatholic Church, of the Catholic Church.
(07:58):
When you become a teacher and you agreeto be that and actually, ironically
as well, the bishops directiveis a step in the right direction.
It shifts religious rights back intothe hands of parishes and families.
However, it seems.
It seems to me and maybe I'm beinga bit harsh here not, not maybe that
they want the status quo, which is tohave a Catholic system, which suits
(08:21):
their, their level of Catholicism andcertainly if they don't want it, they're
quite happy within it because I don'thear them all giving out every day.
There's 43, 000 teachers.
And I, if I hear 20 of them giving outabout the system being controlled by the
Catholic educate by Catholic church Okay.
So, I think that would suggest to methey're happy with the status quo,
basically where a system where religionis woven into the fabric of school life,
(08:44):
where sacraments are scheduled likea class trip and where no one has to
think very hard about what that means.
That's the status quo.
And in other words, you see peoplelike that see themselves as, they
see the sacraments as a schoolevent and not a religious rite of
passage, which of course it is.
And I think You know, it can'tbe a school event anymore, not
(09:07):
with the diversity in classrooms.
And we really, really have to, unravelthis at this point where we have a number
of children who for possibly months onend are not Not involved in what's going
on in the class, because the teacher atthat time is working for the Catholic
Church and for the Catholic Church only,and it's, it's something that needs to
(09:31):
change, as I often argue, but let me, letme go on because maybe I'm wrong but going
back to that film, The Founder, whereCroc keeps McDonald's golden arches, but
takes away the original vision of thoseMcDonald brothers who actually just wanted
to make Most Irish people seem to wantto keep Catholic traditions alive without
any of the faith that once justified them.
(09:53):
I think every single school has astory about a child that skipped
the church part of the communionand went straight to the hotel.
And people seem to love that story.
And they think it's really funny.
I've even heard peoplesay up fair play to them.
At least they're honest.
I'm sure you've heard someone evensay at a communion, like particularly
The lad standing at the backof the church at the communion.
Hup, I'll see you at the confirmation.
(10:15):
Implying that they're not going toset foot in the church until then.
And nobody seems to thinkthis is absolutely outrageous.
I, I find it outrageous.
I'm not even Catholic.
That people are just taking the absoluteMickey out of the church, and it'd be
fine if it wasn't at the expense of somany people, and again, people like me
(10:36):
who are minorities and minority who don't,who can't get a job in 96 percent of
schools to the thousands and thousandsof children out there who have to sit
at the backs of classrooms every day,and certainly during sacrament seasons.
Potentially completely left outof what's going on in school.
And a lot of people are so rooted inthis tradition that they don't even,
(10:56):
and even them themselves, they don'teven have the slightest belief in it.
And they still defend it to the death.
I'd say you might be listening tothis going, getting really, might
be angry at me for saying this.
Because this is something you're so usedto and you're so uncritical about it.
That you don't see theimpact of it on other people.
And maybe you do.
And you say tough luck.
The majority think it's fine.
(11:17):
So therefore it is fine.
Could you imagine?
I always find, it'sinteresting to look at this.
And this is obviously a religious thing.
And religion is very emotive.
It's very personal.
It's very private.
People really, really look atreligion in maybe a different
way to lots of other things.
Let's say it was a different type ofdiscrimination because that's, at the
end of the day, it is discrimination.
(11:38):
The fact that I can't work in 96percent of schools on the, and the
only reason for that is becauseof the religion I don't have.
And the only reason children have tosit at the back of the class for half an
hour a day and can't take part in all thesacraments is because of the religion.
It's for no other reason.
And that is a grounds for discrimination.
But if we looked at this from adifferent angle, let's say the reason
(12:01):
that I couldn't work in a school wasbecause of the color of my skin or
because I was a member of the travelercommunity or because of my gender that
I wouldn't be allowed to get a job.
There would be.
People would be an uproar and I wouldimagine people would be absolutely
outraged that because I was a differentskin tone or because of whatever
(12:25):
anything else except religion, that Icouldn't work in 96 percent of schools.
I think people defend things becauseit's religion and because, and I
think that's we have to look at that.
And and we have to.
We have to realize thatit's no longer okay.
The school is not an extensionof the Catholic Church anymore.
It is, but it shouldn'tbe an extension of.
(12:47):
It's a public service that allchildren and all adults in those
environments should have equality andshouldn't be discriminated against
no more than you would for skin tone.
Anyway, it one thing you might beinterested in because another article
came up in my in my feed about.
Leish County Council, because itisn't just schools, and there's
(13:09):
a controversy over prayer at theLeish County Council meetings.
And it's a really good example of this.
And I'm going to callit selective secularism.
So I would say the majority of peoplethat are in Leish County Council
Are culturally Catholic at best, orcertainly culturally Christian if
they're in some way they I don't thinkthey're at mass every day every week.
(13:30):
I don't think they're praying every day.
But when it comes to their countycouncil meetings, they start with a
prayer and In some ways I'm going tocall this selective secularism because
in all aspects of their, of councilmeetings, it's completely secular.
They're not talking about how the churchshould be, have more power within the
county council or within the county.
But when it comes to the start of it, theywant this Christian prayer to be said.
(13:54):
I'm not going to read the prayer.
But one councillor called for an endto it at the start of meetings, arguing
that a moment of silence would be moreinclusive, which of course it would be.
Yet the vast majority, in fact, all of theother counselors refuse to even entertain
the idea and their argument, and theironly argument is, it's always been done.
It's always been done.
And it's the same logic, this same logic,that because we've done something for
(14:16):
a very long time it keeps the CatholicChurch entrenched in Irish schools.
And people who would never dream ofgoing to Mass will fight tooth and nail
to keep these Catholic traditions inplace, as long as they don't actually
have to practice them themselves.
It's a really bizarre and silly logic.
self serving mindset in my view.
One that allows people to reap thecultural and social benefits of
(14:37):
Catholicism while discarding theobligations of the actual faith.
They want the cultural stuff, but theydon't want the actual faith part of it.
And it wouldn't really matter if it didn'taffect anyone else, but of course it does.
Councillor Paddy Buggy, who's on theLeach County Council, went even further,
stating that since most of the councilconsists of Christians or non believers,
(14:59):
that the prayers should remain.
The outright dismissal of non believersas having any right to object is the
perfect encapsulation of the problem.
The mad thing is that if there were,he said, if there were Jews or Muslims,
we'd probably have to have a look at it.
But non believers arecompletely disregarded.
As if they're just a completeinconvenience to culture and I don't
(15:21):
know, the assumption that those who don'tsubscribe to a religious belief should
simply accept public prayer is preciselythe kind of cultural Catholicism that
allows the church to maintain powerinstead It's an act of erasure, I would
say, a refusal to acknowledge thatnonbelievers should have an equal right
to participate in civic life withoutbeing subjected to religious rituals.
(15:41):
And we have, I would, I think atthis stage we have a huge percentage
of our teaching population, maybenot the majority at the moment,
but certainly a high minority whoare subjected to religious rituals
despite not being nonbelievers, butnot believing in a personal faith.
God.
Going back to the rollout of freesolar panels, they're just the
(16:05):
latest example of most people'scomplete blindness to this issue.
Every euro that the state spendson schools, whether it's for solar
panels, new buildings, maintenance,or even paying the heating bills,
ultimately benefits the church.
And Again, I don't know ifpeople really care about this.
(16:26):
The Vatican, which is not evenan Irish institution, through its
vast network of property ownership,quietly profits while pretending
that they're taking a back seat.
We never hear.
Of the fact that when the solar panelsare installed, that they become the
property of the Vatican state, the Irishtaxpayer continues to pour money into
(16:46):
these Catholic owned infrastructures,and nobody says a word, and it really
puzzles me about this when it comes toschools, because nobody says a word.
Except when it's theNational Maternity Hospital.
Now, when the National MaternityHospital was at risk of being handed
over to a religious order, thatproposal sparked protests, public
(17:12):
debate, and widespread opposition.
You might remember the slogans, keepyour rosaries away from my ovaries.
People were disgusted that a public statebuilding and all of its bills it would
acquire would be paid for by the state.
But gifted to the Catholic Church.
Yet when it came to schools and whenit comes to schools, the same people
(17:33):
who rally against church influence inhealthcare and want their want their the
rosaries away from their ovaries, whenit comes to that, the same people who
rally against that seem really unfazedby the fact that Billions, billions in
taxpayer money flow directly into Vaticanowned property, into church bodies,
the same ones as the as the NationalMaternity Hospital every single year.
(17:57):
And in fact, I bet the majority of peoplewho stood at the altar beside the priest
while their child pressed their palmstogether, holding those very rosary beads
they wanted kept away from their ovaries.
Now, I ask myself, All the time.
Why does this contradiction exist?
Why does this cognitive dissonance exist?
(18:17):
Why is there an instinctive rejectionof church control in hospitals
and almost all other aspects ofIrish life, but not in schools?
Is it because schools affect only childrenwho don't have anything to say or who are
too small and may not have anything to sayin the matter, who just think it's normal?
Or is it simply a matter of familiarity?
(18:39):
Because Catholic schools have alwaysbeen the norm and people don't
question the church's grip on them.
Maybe they don't think about it.
Back to The Founder, this filmthat really got me thinking,
it made an anti hero of Kroc.
You didn't like him, at the end.
The narrative of the story wasthat the viewer was going to
(19:00):
be disgusted by his behavior.
And we were.
It was immoral.
It was unethical.
He won.
He did win.
But he wasn't a hero in the end.
Did he care?
I don't think so.
He became rich.
And people eat in McDonald's all the time.
It's a huge success.
To me, it's the exact same model beingused by the Catholic Church in Ireland.
(19:24):
And it is more effective thanhaving to directly manage the day
to day running of the schools.
If the church had to run andfinance the schools itself, its
power would certainly diminish.
Instead, it allows the state to payfor Everything while maintaining its
ownership, the schools are well funded.
Maybe they're not.
They're well funded, butthey're certainly funded.
They're modern and they're comfortablein most places, but all on church
(19:48):
owned land, giving them under, leavingthem under religious influence,
regardless of changing societal values.
The question is.
How long is this going to be tolerated?
At what point will Ireland's culturalCatholics stop pretending that the
state funded church infrastructureisn't exactly the same, isn't exactly
(20:08):
as vulgar as Crock's Macdonald's empire?
And why is there no public outrageover this when there is so much noise
about the National Maternity Hospital?
The Irish governmentclaims to be a republic.
But every cent spent onCatholic schools says otherwise.
And until people confront thiscontradiction, the church will
(20:28):
continue to keep doing what it's doing.
And not through devotion orprayers, but through ownership.
So there you have it.
I hope it gave you some food for thought.
If nothing else, those solar panels thatyou are getting are going to be owned by
the Vatican, the state of the Vatican.
(20:49):
Maybe you don't care about thatand That's entirely up to you.
You may not have even thought about it.
As I said in my post, get your getyour rosaries out of my ovaries.
But you're happy enough to haveyour panels in your chapels.
But it's it's definitelysomething worth thinking about.
Look, I always come across as angryon this issue and I can't help it.
(21:11):
I just find it really, really frustratingthat the cognitive dissonance where you
tens of thousands of people protestedabout the National Maternity Hospital.
And yet the very next day, we'rehappy enough to to stand beside
a priest while their kids wereholding the very same rosary beads.
It's similar to when marriageequality came in, that people were
(21:33):
Absolutely given out stink about thepatriarchy and how, the, how, and
this about the Catholic church andtheir control over marriage, and equal
marriage was going to be a thing.
And then the very next day, standing inthe same church beside the priest with
their hands clapped at the rosary beads.
I just, I don't get thecognitive dissonance.
It really, it baffles meto be honest with you.
(21:54):
And I suppose.
This is just yet another thing and yetanother angle about how this all works.
Look, you might not agree with me, andthat's absolutely fine, I don't mind.
Ultimately, I find always religion,is a very emotive thing, so it
kind of skews people people getvery defensive when they hear this.
But try and look at thisas if it wasn't religion.
Look at it as if it was maybe look atit as if maybe it was something else.
(22:17):
That's discriminatory,such as, colour of skin.
And, and maybe read listen to thisback and replace anything I've
said about religion with colour ofskin or a member of the Traveller
community and just see how it sounds.
And maybe, maybe it justgives a different angle.
It's not different, the thing is, wehave nine grounds of discrimination
and religion is one of them.
And it certainly affects a growing,growing number of people and
(22:41):
affects people's careers completely.
So, look.
That's probably all I have tosay on the matter for now, and
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Until next time,
MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-2: thanks so much for (22:51):
undefined
listening all the very best.
Bye-bye.
undefined
Hello.
You're very welcome to if I were theminister for education, I regular
podcast, where I look at the worldof primary education in Ireland
and let you know what I would do.
If I were the minister foreducation, this is Simon Lewis.
On this week's show, I'll be talking aboutsolar panels and schools, but maybe not
(00:21):
from the angle you might be expecting.
As many of you might know, the governmentdecided that every school in the country
would be given a set of solar panels.
And the main talk from those in theprofession has been why The decision
was made that no matter what sizeyour school is, you'll be getting
(00:44):
the same number of solar panels.
So very tiny schools will begetting the same number of solar
panels as a very big school, whichof course doesn't make any sense.
However, I don't think I'd be ableto make an entire podcast out.
of that.
And instead, I want to look at the solarpanel issue from a different perspective.
(01:08):
And that is who's going to own them.
If you enjoy this podcast, pleaseconsider subscribing to it.
And I'd love to hear your feedbackeither by sending me a message on
X or Instagram or any of the otherplatforms I'm on, or you can simply
review on your favorite podcasting app.
And without further ado, let'sfind out the angle I'm looking at.
(01:36):
I remember watching The Founder.
It was a film released in 2016,nearly 10 years ago, about the
story of McDonald's, of all places.
And You're probably wonderingwhere I'm going to go with this.
But, I was watching it thinking itwas going to be one of these feel good
tales of ambition and perseverancewhere the small man had a dream and
(01:59):
persevered with it and succeeded.
And at first, that'sexactly what it delivered.
A struggling salesman spottingpotential in a small burger joint
and turning it into a global empire.
But as the story unfoldedThe tone darkened.
The character of Ray Kroc, who'sthe main, the anti hero of this
(02:21):
film, his strategy wasn't reallyabout selling burgers in the end.
It was about owning the land.
He didn't just expand McDonald's.
He took control, pushing out theoriginal owners and ensuring his
dominance by controlling the property.
It was a masterclass in paradigmaticsand one that I would think, if
(02:46):
you know me, resonated with me farbeyond McDonald's or fast food.
It reminded me of somethingmuch closer to home.
The recent government rolloutof free solar panels for schools
absolutely is mirroring how theIrish education system works in a
really, to me, a very unsettling way.
(03:08):
While the state is funding theinfrastructure upgrades for the
solar panels, who actually ownsthose panels once they're installed?
Most Irish primary schools, as arestill under church patronage, meaning
that the buildings And any upgradestechnically belong to the Catholic
(03:30):
Church in the Vatican, not in Ireland.
Just like McDonald's, the state fundsand operates the schools, but the
church keeps the ultimate control, i.
e.
Perhaps that's why the founderhad such a profound effect on me.
I guess the only difference is thatit's far easier to eat in a restaurant
(03:54):
that isn't McDonald's than it isnot to attend a school that isn't
under Catholic patronage, or anyreligious patronage for that matter.
Anyway, this arrangement to me,I tell you, is emblematic of the
broader issue in Irish education.
The church owns the infrastructure.
The state funds the running costs,the teachers, many of whom don't
(04:17):
even practice the faith, and expectthem to uphold the religious ethos
in their professional capacity.
But when it comes to actual churchgoing,most of these teachers, and parents,
and school communities don't actuallytake part in the church community.
Now they're willing to work in theseCatholic institutions, the teachers that
(04:40):
is, the parents are willing, very happy insome cases to send their children to these
Catholic institutions, and by that upholdthe ethos, deliver the Catholic sacraments
or take part in the Catholic sacraments,enforce the Catholic rules or obey the
rules and take part fully in the mass.
And for teachers, though, But only ifthey occur during their working day.
(05:05):
Outside of their working day, all of theirmissionary work, these teachers who are
happy to work in catholic schools, allof their faith forming, those who are
happy to work in catholic schools, all oftheir love of teaching children to love
Jesus Christ outside of their working day.
And I was very interested to seean article that was in the I think
(05:26):
it was in the local paper in Corkwhere Cork schools and the Bishop
clashed over communion celebrations.
The teachers were expressing concernover the new diocesan, a diocesan
policy requiring sacramentalpreparations to be held on weekends
and outside of school hours.
Because, when you sign up for areligion, your religion only takes
place between 9 o'clock and 2.
30.
(05:47):
If, to me, and this is whereI have sympathy, people often
accuse me of being anti Catholicor being against Catholicism.
I'm absolutely not, because I think thatif we are to have Catholic schools, and if
this is something that we're supposed tohave and we're supposed to be in favor of,
and it seems to the majority of people arequite happy with it you can't be unhappy
(06:09):
that when the, when Catholicism, whichis supposed to permeate throughout the
school day, they expect you to uphold theethos, they expect you to take part, you
promise to take part in the sacramentsand teach the sacraments and pass on
the love of Jesus Christ and so on.
That doesn't mean it onlyhappens during your school day.
You can, I think if you're goingto sign up to the Catholic church,
(06:31):
part of that deal is that youprepare children for the sacraments.
And if those sacraments take place asthey should , on a weekend mass I'm
sorry, my sympathy dies off a little bit.
If you're if I and my sympathy diesoff for you, if you're happy enough
with everything else, if you'rereluctantly maybe working in a Catholic
school system and you're, then you.
(06:52):
You know then fair enough.
I suppose where I my sympathy is endsa little bit Is that it's because you
don't want to have it on the weekendYou're quite happy Monday to Friday
at nine to have to which you knowessentially by doing that, you're
complicit in some ways, maybe, maybe notovertly complicit, but you're covertly
complicit in keeping that system goingwhere people like me and people who
(07:16):
are from minoritized backgrounds can'tbecome teachers or can't work in these
systems because you have signed up.
To, and you have agreed in an interviewand you have and you quite happily
teach the, the growing love programor whatever it is and defend it when
people like me criticize it and call meanti Catholic when I criticize the fact
(07:36):
that we have this sort of stuff and.
When I, when I see articles like this,when teachers are giving out that they
have to take part in the sacramentsoutside of the school day, which I think,
actually, to be fair, in most areas ofthe country, that is the general practice,
and maybe this wasn't the general practicein Cork, but at the end of the day,
this is, you, you are an employee of theCatholic Church, of the Catholic Church.
(07:58):
When you become a teacher and you agreeto be that and actually, ironically
as well, the bishops directiveis a step in the right direction.
It shifts religious rights back intothe hands of parishes and families.
However, it seems.
It seems to me and maybe I'm beinga bit harsh here not, not maybe that
they want the status quo, which is tohave a Catholic system, which suits
(08:21):
their, their level of Catholicism andcertainly if they don't want it, they're
quite happy within it because I don'thear them all giving out every day.
There's 43, 000 teachers.
And I, if I hear 20 of them giving outabout the system being controlled by the
Catholic educate by Catholic church Okay.
So, I think that would suggest to methey're happy with the status quo,
basically where a system where religionis woven into the fabric of school life,
(08:44):
where sacraments are scheduled likea class trip and where no one has to
think very hard about what that means.
That's the status quo.
And in other words, you see peoplelike that see themselves as, they
see the sacraments as a schoolevent and not a religious rite of
passage, which of course it is.
And I think You know, it can'tbe a school event anymore, not
(09:07):
with the diversity in classrooms.
And we really, really have to, unravelthis at this point where we have a number
of children who for possibly months onend are not Not involved in what's going
on in the class, because the teacher atthat time is working for the Catholic
Church and for the Catholic Church only,and it's, it's something that needs to
(09:31):
change, as I often argue, but let me, letme go on because maybe I'm wrong but going
back to that film, The Founder, whereCroc keeps McDonald's golden arches, but
takes away the original vision of thoseMcDonald brothers who actually just wanted
to make Most Irish people seem to wantto keep Catholic traditions alive without
any of the faith that once justified them.
(09:53):
I think every single school has astory about a child that skipped
the church part of the communionand went straight to the hotel.
And people seem to love that story.
And they think it's really funny.
I've even heard peoplesay up fair play to them.
At least they're honest.
I'm sure you've heard someone evensay at a communion, like particularly
The lad standing at the backof the church at the communion.
Hup, I'll see you at the confirmation.
(10:15):
Implying that they're not going toset foot in the church until then.
And nobody seems to thinkthis is absolutely outrageous.
I, I find it outrageous.
I'm not even Catholic.
That people are just taking the absoluteMickey out of the church, and it'd be
fine if it wasn't at the expense of somany people, and again, people like me
(10:36):
who are minorities and minority who don't,who can't get a job in 96 percent of
schools to the thousands and thousandsof children out there who have to sit
at the backs of classrooms every day,and certainly during sacrament seasons.
Potentially completely left outof what's going on in school.
And a lot of people are so rooted inthis tradition that they don't even,
(10:56):
and even them themselves, they don'teven have the slightest belief in it.
And they still defend it to the death.
I'd say you might be listening tothis going, getting really, might
be angry at me for saying this.
Because this is something you're so usedto and you're so uncritical about it.
That you don't see theimpact of it on other people.
And maybe you do.
And you say tough luck.
The majority think it's fine.
(11:17):
So therefore it is fine.
Could you imagine?
I always find, it'sinteresting to look at this.
And this is obviously a religious thing.
And religion is very emotive.
It's very personal.
It's very private.
People really, really look atreligion in maybe a different
way to lots of other things.
Let's say it was a different type ofdiscrimination because that's, at the
end of the day, it is discrimination.
(11:38):
The fact that I can't work in 96percent of schools on the, and the
only reason for that is becauseof the religion I don't have.
And the only reason children have tosit at the back of the class for half an
hour a day and can't take part in all thesacraments is because of the religion.
It's for no other reason.
And that is a grounds for discrimination.
But if we looked at this from adifferent angle, let's say the reason
(12:01):
that I couldn't work in a school wasbecause of the color of my skin or
because I was a member of the travelercommunity or because of my gender that
I wouldn't be allowed to get a job.
There would be.
People would be an uproar and I wouldimagine people would be absolutely
outraged that because I was a differentskin tone or because of whatever
(12:25):
anything else except religion, that Icouldn't work in 96 percent of schools.
I think people defend things becauseit's religion and because, and I
think that's we have to look at that.
And and we have to.
We have to realize thatit's no longer okay.
The school is not an extensionof the Catholic Church anymore.
It is, but it shouldn'tbe an extension of.
(12:47):
It's a public service that allchildren and all adults in those
environments should have equality andshouldn't be discriminated against
no more than you would for skin tone.
Anyway, it one thing you might beinterested in because another article
came up in my in my feed about.
Leish County Council, because itisn't just schools, and there's
(13:09):
a controversy over prayer at theLeish County Council meetings.
And it's a really good example of this.
And I'm going to callit selective secularism.
So I would say the majority of peoplethat are in Leish County Council
Are culturally Catholic at best, orcertainly culturally Christian if
they're in some way they I don't thinkthey're at mass every day every week.
(13:30):
I don't think they're praying every day.
But when it comes to their countycouncil meetings, they start with a
prayer and In some ways I'm going tocall this selective secularism because
in all aspects of their, of councilmeetings, it's completely secular.
They're not talking about how the churchshould be, have more power within the
county council or within the county.
But when it comes to the start of it, theywant this Christian prayer to be said.
(13:54):
I'm not going to read the prayer.
But one councillor called for an endto it at the start of meetings, arguing
that a moment of silence would be moreinclusive, which of course it would be.
Yet the vast majority, in fact, all of theother counselors refuse to even entertain
the idea and their argument, and theironly argument is, it's always been done.
It's always been done.
And it's the same logic, this same logic,that because we've done something for
(14:16):
a very long time it keeps the CatholicChurch entrenched in Irish schools.
And people who would never dream ofgoing to Mass will fight tooth and nail
to keep these Catholic traditions inplace, as long as they don't actually
have to practice them themselves.
It's a really bizarre and silly logic.
self serving mindset in my view.
One that allows people to reap thecultural and social benefits of
(14:37):
Catholicism while discarding theobligations of the actual faith.
They want the cultural stuff, but theydon't want the actual faith part of it.
And it wouldn't really matter if it didn'taffect anyone else, but of course it does.
Councillor Paddy Buggy, who's on theLeach County Council, went even further,
stating that since most of the councilconsists of Christians or non believers,
(14:59):
that the prayers should remain.
The outright dismissal of non believersas having any right to object is the
perfect encapsulation of the problem.
The mad thing is that if there were,he said, if there were Jews or Muslims,
we'd probably have to have a look at it.
But non believers arecompletely disregarded.
As if they're just a completeinconvenience to culture and I don't
(15:21):
know, the assumption that those who don'tsubscribe to a religious belief should
simply accept public prayer is preciselythe kind of cultural Catholicism that
allows the church to maintain powerinstead It's an act of erasure, I would
say, a refusal to acknowledge thatnonbelievers should have an equal right
to participate in civic life withoutbeing subjected to religious rituals.
(15:41):
And we have, I would, I think atthis stage we have a huge percentage
of our teaching population, maybenot the majority at the moment,
but certainly a high minority whoare subjected to religious rituals
despite not being nonbelievers, butnot believing in a personal faith.
God.
Going back to the rollout of freesolar panels, they're just the
(16:05):
latest example of most people'scomplete blindness to this issue.
Every euro that the state spendson schools, whether it's for solar
panels, new buildings, maintenance,or even paying the heating bills,
ultimately benefits the church.
And Again, I don't know ifpeople really care about this.
(16:26):
The Vatican, which is not evenan Irish institution, through its
vast network of property ownership,quietly profits while pretending
that they're taking a back seat.
We never hear.
Of the fact that when the solar panelsare installed, that they become the
property of the Vatican state, the Irishtaxpayer continues to pour money into
(16:46):
these Catholic owned infrastructures,and nobody says a word, and it really
puzzles me about this when it comes toschools, because nobody says a word.
Except when it's theNational Maternity Hospital.
Now, when the National MaternityHospital was at risk of being handed
over to a religious order, thatproposal sparked protests, public
(17:12):
debate, and widespread opposition.
You might remember the slogans, keepyour rosaries away from my ovaries.
People were disgusted that a public statebuilding and all of its bills it would
acquire would be paid for by the state.
But gifted to the Catholic Church.
Yet when it came to schools and whenit comes to schools, the same people
(17:33):
who rally against church influence inhealthcare and want their want their the
rosaries away from their ovaries, whenit comes to that, the same people who
rally against that seem really unfazedby the fact that Billions, billions in
taxpayer money flow directly into Vaticanowned property, into church bodies,
the same ones as the as the NationalMaternity Hospital every single year.
(17:57):
And in fact, I bet the majority of peoplewho stood at the altar beside the priest
while their child pressed their palmstogether, holding those very rosary beads
they wanted kept away from their ovaries.
Now, I ask myself, All the time.
Why does this contradiction exist?
Why does this cognitive dissonance exist?
(18:17):
Why is there an instinctive rejectionof church control in hospitals
and almost all other aspects ofIrish life, but not in schools?
Is it because schools affect only childrenwho don't have anything to say or who are
too small and may not have anything to sayin the matter, who just think it's normal?
Or is it simply a matter of familiarity?
(18:39):
Because Catholic schools have alwaysbeen the norm and people don't
question the church's grip on them.
Maybe they don't think about it.
Back to The Founder, this filmthat really got me thinking,
it made an anti hero of Kroc.
You didn't like him, at the end.
The narrative of the story wasthat the viewer was going to
(19:00):
be disgusted by his behavior.
And we were.
It was immoral.
It was unethical.
He won.
He did win.
But he wasn't a hero in the end.
Did he care?
I don't think so.
He became rich.
And people eat in McDonald's all the time.
It's a huge success.
To me, it's the exact same model beingused by the Catholic Church in Ireland.
(19:24):
And it is more effective thanhaving to directly manage the day
to day running of the schools.
If the church had to run andfinance the schools itself, its
power would certainly diminish.
Instead, it allows the state to payfor Everything while maintaining its
ownership, the schools are well funded.
Maybe they're not.
They're well funded, butthey're certainly funded.
They're modern and they're comfortablein most places, but all on church
(19:48):
owned land, giving them under, leavingthem under religious influence,
regardless of changing societal values.
The question is.
How long is this going to be tolerated?
At what point will Ireland's culturalCatholics stop pretending that the
state funded church infrastructureisn't exactly the same, isn't exactly
(20:08):
as vulgar as Crock's Macdonald's empire?
And why is there no public outrageover this when there is so much noise
about the National Maternity Hospital?
The Irish governmentclaims to be a republic.
But every cent spent onCatholic schools says otherwise.
And until people confront thiscontradiction, the church will
(20:28):
continue to keep doing what it's doing.
And not through devotion orprayers, but through ownership.
So there you have it.
I hope it gave you some food for thought.
If nothing else, those solar panels thatyou are getting are going to be owned by
the Vatican, the state of the Vatican.
(20:49):
Maybe you don't care about thatand That's entirely up to you.
You may not have even thought about it.
As I said in my post, get your getyour rosaries out of my ovaries.
But you're happy enough to haveyour panels in your chapels.
But it's it's definitelysomething worth thinking about.
Look, I always come across as angryon this issue and I can't help it.
(21:11):
I just find it really, really frustratingthat the cognitive dissonance where you
tens of thousands of people protestedabout the National Maternity Hospital.
And yet the very next day, we'rehappy enough to to stand beside
a priest while their kids wereholding the very same rosary beads.
It's similar to when marriageequality came in, that people were
(21:33):
Absolutely given out stink about thepatriarchy and how, the, how, and
this about the Catholic church andtheir control over marriage, and equal
marriage was going to be a thing.
And then the very next day, standing inthe same church beside the priest with
their hands clapped at the rosary beads.
I just, I don't get thecognitive dissonance.
It really, it baffles meto be honest with you.
(21:54):
And I suppose.
This is just yet another thing and yetanother angle about how this all works.
Look, you might not agree with me, andthat's absolutely fine, I don't mind.
Ultimately, I find always religion,is a very emotive thing, so it
kind of skews people people getvery defensive when they hear this.
But try and look at thisas if it wasn't religion.
Look at it as if it was maybe look atit as if maybe it was something else.
(22:17):
That's discriminatory,such as, colour of skin.
And, and maybe read listen to thisback and replace anything I've
said about religion with colour ofskin or a member of the Traveller
community and just see how it sounds.
And maybe, maybe it justgives a different angle.
It's not different, the thing is, wehave nine grounds of discrimination
and religion is one of them.
And it certainly affects a growing,growing number of people and
(22:41):
affects people's careers completely.
So, look.
That's probably all I have tosay on the matter for now, and
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Until next time,
MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-2: thanks so much for (22:51):
undefined
listening all the very best.
Bye-bye.
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