November 11, 2024 • 18 mins
When I appeared on Virgin Media television's "Ireland's Education Crisis," I thought my phone would be buzzing from radio stations eager to find out why I thought the way we treat children with additional needs is Ireland's 21st century scandal. I didn't hear a single thing. It's a theme I'm getting used to when I raise special education: silence.
In the same vein, in this episode, I try to get a look into the inner workings of the NCSE. As you'll probably note from the length of this episode, I didn't get very far.
However, as I was writing this episode, something happened. The NCSE announced new guidelines for allocating resources. Perhaps our next episode will spark some positivity?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to access on done.
The collapse of special education.
Especial podcast from unsharp dot Nash.
This is Simon Lewis, a teacher andprincipal for over 20 years in this
series, I look back over the shorthistory of how children with additional
(00:23):
needs have slowly but surely beencast aside by the education system.
I argue that much like the crimesof the Catholic church on children,
where the scandal of the 20th century.
That how the state is treating childrenwith additional needs will be the scandal.
Of the 21st.
(00:46):
I have to confess.
I'm a little disappointed.
That this podcast hashad the exact impact.
That I thought it would.
After I appeared on Arlen's educationcrisis on Virgin media television
at the end of August, 2024.
I expected my phone to be buzzing thenext morning from the radio stations that
(01:09):
usually call me about education topics.
I didn't get a single message.
Perhaps foolishly.
Because I've even lessreach than Virgin media.
I thought I'd expand on the inputI gave to the show for this series.
I also hope by, by stretching outthe episodes a couple of weeks apart.
(01:31):
That I'd gather some contentfrom people in the system.
Even if it was anonymously.
Unfortunately barring one statistic.
I've had the same amount ofinformation as I had when I started.
This is the penultimateepisode of access on done.
Where I enter as far as I caninto the walls of the N C S E.
(01:56):
If I was to tell you that half ofthe teachers in a school quit their
jobs within a couple of years.
It would probably be national news.
In fact, this is almost exactly whathappened in 2022, in a small village
in county Wexford called cushions town.
In a nutshell, several teachers left theirpermanent jobs between 2019 and 2022.
(02:23):
The board of management was dissolvedand the school almost came to a point
of being closed down as no solutionappeared to be on the horizon.
It was a fascinating story.
It was no surprise that it madethe national news and it might even
make a good podcast in its own.
Right.
However, when 31 out of the 66 and a halfCNOs left the NCSE between 2021 and 2023.
(02:53):
Almost half of their entirefront facing workforce.
There wasn't a single word about it.
I have the names of every CNO that lefttheir position between those two years.
How many of them are you going tohear from in person in this episode?
(03:15):
The answer.
As you may not be surprised to hear.
We'll be non.
This episode is going to be incrediblyshort in some ways, because in
trying to build a picture of what'shappening inside the walls of the NCSC.
To be honest, I got almost nowhere.
(03:37):
Unfortunately, as you'll seethe walls of the NCSE are
similar to the walls of silence.
I faced since starting this series.
It's very hard to penetrate them.
We'll be left with morequestions than answers as we
come to the end of this episode.
However, I hope that this and the lastfew episodes would have brought you
(04:01):
to a place where you'll also maybe bemoved to ask some questions yourself.
As I'm writing this episode.
I'm processing the contents of anotherTV show that aired at the end of
October on RTE, it was called leathered.
It was an investigation into the physicalassault and abuses that took place on
(04:25):
a daily basis in Irish schools untila corporal punishment was outlawed
in Irish schools in the early 1980s.
It was a very upsetting watch.
Mainly focusing on the lives of men stillaffected by the treatment they received in
school, even though some of them are wellinto their fifties and sixties and beyond.
(04:45):
And some of them visibly breaking downas they recalled the daily punishments.
Of being attacked by their teachers.
It was difficult for me not tokeep thinking about the correlation
with this podcast series.
There were over half a million childrenin the education system, the large
majority of them witnessing some ofthe most vulnerable classmates being
(05:08):
assaulted sometimes every single day.
And yet only a small handful spoke up.
The rest stayed.
Absolutely silent.
I'm also just after watching a film,small things like these, and it
couldn't have been a better title toa film about one of the many scandals
(05:30):
of the Catholic church in Ireland.
And it was hard not todraw comparisons again.
As I said, in a previous partof this series, I believe what
we're doing to children withadditional needs has many parallels.
There's a perceived problem inthat we have lots of children
diagnosed with autism and we don'thave enough resources to provide
the children with what they need.
(05:51):
So we've invented things which we seemto have no issue with calling units.
And once the children are in these units.
I mean, even the name would give itaway that there's something wrong here.
What a name to give to someone that'ssupposed to be caring a unit or you
couldn't get a more uncaring name, butanyway, once these children are in these
(06:14):
units, the perceived problem seems to begone away according to the vast majority
of people and much like Eileen, who'sthe main character, his wife in the film.
Who innocently justifies her husband.
Bill's discomfort by saying thatthe nuns feed the girls, clothed
the girls and give them work.
She also tells bill if youwant to get on in this life.
(06:37):
There are things you have to ignore.
In fact, I would say she isthe voice of general society.
Kilian Murphy's character, bill,is most likely going to be punished
for his small, but heroic action.
And in the end, even though he didone small thing in the bigger picture,
(06:57):
because of society's reluctance to speak.
Bill will be the one to pay the price.
I've spoken before about my ownexperience of standing up to
leaders when I was in school.
And perhaps as a teenager, one gets getout of jail free card because of the folly
of youth, perhaps, however, I've seenhow a community will stay quiet and it
(07:20):
allows someone in power use their power tokeep that power, whether that's terrible
things or maybe just small things.
So in a way as we enter the end of my lookat the NCSE, we're kind of back to where
we started with the compliance of silence.
The cost of that silence is thatwe allow bad things to continue.
(07:44):
The cost of not being silent isthe risk of potential self cost.
I know this a little bit though.
I also know that the rewards for stayingsilence, aren't really important.
You don't get to be the head of anyorganization by being outspoken.
I think I've learned that for sure.
(08:05):
You get there by not beingoutspoken and staying quiet.
Anyway, let's enter the walls of theNCSC with one of my favorite statistics.
And I've already mentioned it becauseI think the statistic alone summed
up everything you needed to knowabout the NCSC and why you believe
(08:25):
they failed children in Ireland.
And here is that statistic.
In 2003, the NCSE employed 72 CNOs.
And 15 other staff.
In 2019, they employed 64 and ahalf CNAs and 150 other staff.
(08:48):
I wrote that as statistic in a tweetat the end of the school year in 2022.
And I got a response.
From someone called Ashlyn bacon.
Now, if that name means nothing to you.
Don't worry.
It meant nothing to me either.
However, if you look at the list of the31 seniors that left the NCSE between
(09:13):
2021 and 2023, her name is on that list.
And this was her reply to my tweet.
I left the NCSE after 17 yearswhere I worked tired of C as a CNO.
I loved my job and I workedcollaboratively with schools and parents.
(09:35):
I left because of shocking management.
I left because I could no longer standover decisions made by management.
I could write a book.
It was mashed with severalwell-wishers who confirmed that
she did work tirelessly as a CNO.
It seems she was a good egg.
I tried to reach out to her, butI never heard from her again.
(09:58):
However, as much as I suspected thatCNAs were being relegated in their duties
to merely pushing paper around and notbeing allowed to make any decisions.
I never heard anyonesay anything out loud.
And that was the closest I got to it.
I can't tell you anything else aboutany of the other 31 CNAs on the list.
(10:20):
Apart from one John Morin wholeft the CNO position to become
a principal of a special school.
If someone leaves a CNO positionafter 20 years to become a principal,
I'd wager it wasn't because theopportunity never came up before then.
However, I don't know thereason, so I can't make a point.
There are however, one or two otherson the list who stories I currently do
(10:44):
know, but I can't share them right now.
And maybe in the future,I will be able to do so.
However privately they have backed upwhat Ashlyn bacon said in her tweet reply.
One CNO pointed, meets the public accountsof the NCSC to look up their legal costs.
(11:05):
So I've done that.
I also sent in a freedom of informationrequest regarding these legal
fees, that the NCSE have incurred.
But to be honest, I wouldn'tbe getting very excited.
The figures are for sure interesting.
But I don't know if there'sanywhere to go with them.
(11:27):
I decided I'd look at thelegal fees incurred since 2003.
And to be honest, I'm only going withthis thread because of the anonymous
tip-off and I'm not exactly sure whatlegal fees could be incurred by the
NCSC except for employment issues.
Maybe WRC cases taken from parents.
Maybe getting legal advice.
(11:48):
Uh, around the new Brunswick model orso, or maybe the Aon, but it is possible.
Uh, the NTSA to get legaladvice and pay for that.
On these other issues.
However, I will say their legalfees are actually quite interesting.
The first thing I noticed.
Well, it's from 2003, all theway to 2006, the NCSE incurred
(12:10):
legal fees of 15 1 5 15 Euro.
In total, in those four years.
In 2007, they went up to 600 andfive-year-old which for anyone who's
getting legal advice is not much.
And then in 2008, itdid go up significantly.
Up to 12,138.
(12:31):
I don't know why that is.
If there's no detail of it.
From 2009 to 2011, they were back downto an average of about a thousand Juro.
Um, a year, which seems about right.
2012 went up to 2000 before goingback to 1000, again from 2013, 2016.
So.
Um, freely from 2003 to 2016.
(12:54):
Uh, an average of less than a thousandEuro a year, but then from 2017 to
2019, for whatever reason, legal feesjumped to over 10,000 Euro a year.
And then all of a sudden in 2020.
Legal fees hit 102,000.
Gero.
And in 2021, they jumped to181,000 Gero 2022 was 185,000 Euro.
(13:20):
And we haven't receivedthe 2003 23 report.
But with all the legalchallenges to the AOM process,
I look forward to seeing them.
So, I mean, you can see therefrom nothing, almost nothing to
nearly 200 ties and zero a year.
Something is going on wherethere's a lot of legal action being
taken, or a lot of legal advice,certainly a lot of legal fees.
(13:41):
And in order to figure.
Out how much money was spent onlegal fees on staffing issues.
I made my guess, that this would havebeen expenses that say for the work
relations commission or the WRC as it'sknown and knowing how specific one has to
be with freedom of information requests.
I knew I had to ask specificallyfor this, so maybe there's other
legal fees around staffing, but Ijust don't know how to ask for them.
(14:03):
So I only was able to get threeyears of data from the freedom
of information request, but thefigures were kind of interesting.
Nonetheless.
I'm just quoting the latter.
I received.
Outlined below is a spend on fees bythe NCSC directly related to WRC cases.
20 23, 40 6,162 Euro 34 cent.
(14:25):
Um, 20 22, 30 8,010 Euro, 40 centand 20 to 21 only 3000 281 50.
I also asked, uh, by parentstaking the NCSE to the WRC.
And since 2014, the total legalcosts were less than 15 times.
And so it doesn't seem to be parentsthat are causing the huge legal fees.
(14:47):
I mean, again, it's very hard to know.
I also asked them aboutresignations of CNOs.
He knows because I felt thatwas important for correlation.
And again, I should have been morespecific because the figures I was
saying don't really match the 31people that left between 2021 and 2023.
I know some people retiredand I know one that died.
However, just taking resignations intoaccount between 2021 and 2023, there were
(15:12):
more resignations in those two years.
Than in the first six yearsof the 2010s combined.
And again, I don't knowwhat that tells us.
It's just interesting to see theirfigures and we can draw whatever
conclusions we must from them.
I'm not sure whatconclusions I could draw.
The account of the NTSC from 2003 to2022 are interesting in many ways, it's
(15:37):
interesting to see the eye wateringamounts, which have come into the
budget over the years because wageshave remained relatively stable.
It's fascinating to see howthe total budget is spent.
Front-facing expenses remainedlargely stable, but other expenses
have increased by nearly 8 millionEuro a year in the last decade.
And ultimately asdisappointing as this might be.
(16:02):
I just couldn't bridge any furtherinto the walls of the organization.
I've no stories from the inside.
Yes.
So, all I can do is tell you thathopefully one day they will come.
All that's really left to do.
It's maybe come up with solutions.
(16:22):
It will be very easy for me toshare more stories about the NCSE.
My favorite one was B Iwas there for heartache.
With the new Brunswick model back in 2019.
And I'm not sure what actuallyhalted, whether that was the COVID-19
pandemic or the fact that it turnedout, it was going to cost more than
the current system was costing.
However, I feel it's only fair thatI would tell you what I would do if I
(16:45):
were the minister for education afterall, that's the title of my podcast.
Despite how bad things have become.
And despite had the NCSC wasslowly but surely becoming an Ima
punishable, bureaucratic machine.
I still think it's nottoo late to rescue it.
(17:06):
It's entirely a coincidence, butin the last few weeks, the NCSC
has made some announcements.
And.
On the face.
To ease many of the problems that theyactually created in the last decade.
And I'm going to acknowledge them.
I can go to explore them.
(17:26):
But you're going to have towait another couple of weeks.
When I aim to rebuild the N C S E.
The on-call dot net podcast is writtenand produced by me, Simon Lewis.
If you'd like to hear more of my thoughtson primary education in Ireland, you
should subscribe to my mailing liston Shaw dot Nash slash subscribe.
(17:50):
If you've enjoyed this podcast so far,please consider reviewing it on your
favorite podcast player, as it willhelp other people find it more easily.
Until next time.
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye-bye.
Welcome to access on done.
The collapse of special education.
Especial podcast from unsharp dot Nash.
This is Simon Lewis, a teacher andprincipal for over 20 years in this
series, I look back over the shorthistory of how children with additional
(00:23):
needs have slowly but surely beencast aside by the education system.
I argue that much like the crimesof the Catholic church on children,
where the scandal of the 20th century.
That how the state is treating childrenwith additional needs will be the scandal.
Of the 21st.
(00:46):
I have to confess.
I'm a little disappointed.
That this podcast hashad the exact impact.
That I thought it would.
After I appeared on Arlen's educationcrisis on Virgin media television
at the end of August, 2024.
I expected my phone to be buzzing thenext morning from the radio stations that
(01:09):
usually call me about education topics.
I didn't get a single message.
Perhaps foolishly.
Because I've even lessreach than Virgin media.
I thought I'd expand on the inputI gave to the show for this series.
I also hope by, by stretching outthe episodes a couple of weeks apart.
(01:31):
That I'd gather some contentfrom people in the system.
Even if it was anonymously.
Unfortunately barring one statistic.
I've had the same amount ofinformation as I had when I started.
This is the penultimateepisode of access on done.
Where I enter as far as I caninto the walls of the N C S E.
(01:56):
If I was to tell you that half ofthe teachers in a school quit their
jobs within a couple of years.
It would probably be national news.
In fact, this is almost exactly whathappened in 2022, in a small village
in county Wexford called cushions town.
In a nutshell, several teachers left theirpermanent jobs between 2019 and 2022.
(02:23):
The board of management was dissolvedand the school almost came to a point
of being closed down as no solutionappeared to be on the horizon.
It was a fascinating story.
It was no surprise that it madethe national news and it might even
make a good podcast in its own.
Right.
However, when 31 out of the 66 and a halfCNOs left the NCSE between 2021 and 2023.
(02:53):
Almost half of their entirefront facing workforce.
There wasn't a single word about it.
I have the names of every CNO that lefttheir position between those two years.
How many of them are you going tohear from in person in this episode?
(03:15):
The answer.
As you may not be surprised to hear.
We'll be non.
This episode is going to be incrediblyshort in some ways, because in
trying to build a picture of what'shappening inside the walls of the NCSC.
To be honest, I got almost nowhere.
(03:37):
Unfortunately, as you'll seethe walls of the NCSE are
similar to the walls of silence.
I faced since starting this series.
It's very hard to penetrate them.
We'll be left with morequestions than answers as we
come to the end of this episode.
However, I hope that this and the lastfew episodes would have brought you
(04:01):
to a place where you'll also maybe bemoved to ask some questions yourself.
As I'm writing this episode.
I'm processing the contents of anotherTV show that aired at the end of
October on RTE, it was called leathered.
It was an investigation into the physicalassault and abuses that took place on
(04:25):
a daily basis in Irish schools untila corporal punishment was outlawed
in Irish schools in the early 1980s.
It was a very upsetting watch.
Mainly focusing on the lives of men stillaffected by the treatment they received in
school, even though some of them are wellinto their fifties and sixties and beyond.
(04:45):
And some of them visibly breaking downas they recalled the daily punishments.
Of being attacked by their teachers.
It was difficult for me not tokeep thinking about the correlation
with this podcast series.
There were over half a million childrenin the education system, the large
majority of them witnessing some ofthe most vulnerable classmates being
(05:08):
assaulted sometimes every single day.
And yet only a small handful spoke up.
The rest stayed.
Absolutely silent.
I'm also just after watching a film,small things like these, and it
couldn't have been a better title toa film about one of the many scandals
(05:30):
of the Catholic church in Ireland.
And it was hard not todraw comparisons again.
As I said, in a previous partof this series, I believe what
we're doing to children withadditional needs has many parallels.
There's a perceived problem inthat we have lots of children
diagnosed with autism and we don'thave enough resources to provide
the children with what they need.
(05:51):
So we've invented things which we seemto have no issue with calling units.
And once the children are in these units.
I mean, even the name would give itaway that there's something wrong here.
What a name to give to someone that'ssupposed to be caring a unit or you
couldn't get a more uncaring name, butanyway, once these children are in these
(06:14):
units, the perceived problem seems to begone away according to the vast majority
of people and much like Eileen, who'sthe main character, his wife in the film.
Who innocently justifies her husband.
Bill's discomfort by saying thatthe nuns feed the girls, clothed
the girls and give them work.
She also tells bill if youwant to get on in this life.
(06:37):
There are things you have to ignore.
In fact, I would say she isthe voice of general society.
Kilian Murphy's character, bill,is most likely going to be punished
for his small, but heroic action.
And in the end, even though he didone small thing in the bigger picture,
(06:57):
because of society's reluctance to speak.
Bill will be the one to pay the price.
I've spoken before about my ownexperience of standing up to
leaders when I was in school.
And perhaps as a teenager, one gets getout of jail free card because of the folly
of youth, perhaps, however, I've seenhow a community will stay quiet and it
(07:20):
allows someone in power use their power tokeep that power, whether that's terrible
things or maybe just small things.
So in a way as we enter the end of my lookat the NCSE, we're kind of back to where
we started with the compliance of silence.
The cost of that silence is thatwe allow bad things to continue.
(07:44):
The cost of not being silent isthe risk of potential self cost.
I know this a little bit though.
I also know that the rewards for stayingsilence, aren't really important.
You don't get to be the head of anyorganization by being outspoken.
I think I've learned that for sure.
(08:05):
You get there by not beingoutspoken and staying quiet.
Anyway, let's enter the walls of theNCSC with one of my favorite statistics.
And I've already mentioned it becauseI think the statistic alone summed
up everything you needed to knowabout the NCSC and why you believe
(08:25):
they failed children in Ireland.
And here is that statistic.
In 2003, the NCSE employed 72 CNOs.
And 15 other staff.
In 2019, they employed 64 and ahalf CNAs and 150 other staff.
(08:48):
I wrote that as statistic in a tweetat the end of the school year in 2022.
And I got a response.
From someone called Ashlyn bacon.
Now, if that name means nothing to you.
Don't worry.
It meant nothing to me either.
However, if you look at the list of the31 seniors that left the NCSE between
(09:13):
2021 and 2023, her name is on that list.
And this was her reply to my tweet.
I left the NCSE after 17 yearswhere I worked tired of C as a CNO.
I loved my job and I workedcollaboratively with schools and parents.
(09:35):
I left because of shocking management.
I left because I could no longer standover decisions made by management.
I could write a book.
It was mashed with severalwell-wishers who confirmed that
she did work tirelessly as a CNO.
It seems she was a good egg.
I tried to reach out to her, butI never heard from her again.
(09:58):
However, as much as I suspected thatCNAs were being relegated in their duties
to merely pushing paper around and notbeing allowed to make any decisions.
I never heard anyonesay anything out loud.
And that was the closest I got to it.
I can't tell you anything else aboutany of the other 31 CNAs on the list.
(10:20):
Apart from one John Morin wholeft the CNO position to become
a principal of a special school.
If someone leaves a CNO positionafter 20 years to become a principal,
I'd wager it wasn't because theopportunity never came up before then.
However, I don't know thereason, so I can't make a point.
There are however, one or two otherson the list who stories I currently do
(10:44):
know, but I can't share them right now.
And maybe in the future,I will be able to do so.
However privately they have backed upwhat Ashlyn bacon said in her tweet reply.
One CNO pointed, meets the public accountsof the NCSC to look up their legal costs.
(11:05):
So I've done that.
I also sent in a freedom of informationrequest regarding these legal
fees, that the NCSE have incurred.
But to be honest, I wouldn'tbe getting very excited.
The figures are for sure interesting.
But I don't know if there'sanywhere to go with them.
(11:27):
I decided I'd look at thelegal fees incurred since 2003.
And to be honest, I'm only going withthis thread because of the anonymous
tip-off and I'm not exactly sure whatlegal fees could be incurred by the
NCSC except for employment issues.
Maybe WRC cases taken from parents.
Maybe getting legal advice.
(11:48):
Uh, around the new Brunswick model orso, or maybe the Aon, but it is possible.
Uh, the NTSA to get legaladvice and pay for that.
On these other issues.
However, I will say their legalfees are actually quite interesting.
The first thing I noticed.
Well, it's from 2003, all theway to 2006, the NCSE incurred
(12:10):
legal fees of 15 1 5 15 Euro.
In total, in those four years.
In 2007, they went up to 600 andfive-year-old which for anyone who's
getting legal advice is not much.
And then in 2008, itdid go up significantly.
Up to 12,138.
(12:31):
I don't know why that is.
If there's no detail of it.
From 2009 to 2011, they were back downto an average of about a thousand Juro.
Um, a year, which seems about right.
2012 went up to 2000 before goingback to 1000, again from 2013, 2016.
So.
Um, freely from 2003 to 2016.
(12:54):
Uh, an average of less than a thousandEuro a year, but then from 2017 to
2019, for whatever reason, legal feesjumped to over 10,000 Euro a year.
And then all of a sudden in 2020.
Legal fees hit 102,000.
Gero.
And in 2021, they jumped to181,000 Gero 2022 was 185,000 Euro.
(13:20):
And we haven't receivedthe 2003 23 report.
But with all the legalchallenges to the AOM process,
I look forward to seeing them.
So, I mean, you can see therefrom nothing, almost nothing to
nearly 200 ties and zero a year.
Something is going on wherethere's a lot of legal action being
taken, or a lot of legal advice,certainly a lot of legal fees.
(13:41):
And in order to figure.
Out how much money was spent onlegal fees on staffing issues.
I made my guess, that this would havebeen expenses that say for the work
relations commission or the WRC as it'sknown and knowing how specific one has to
be with freedom of information requests.
I knew I had to ask specificallyfor this, so maybe there's other
legal fees around staffing, but Ijust don't know how to ask for them.
(14:03):
So I only was able to get threeyears of data from the freedom
of information request, but thefigures were kind of interesting.
Nonetheless.
I'm just quoting the latter.
I received.
Outlined below is a spend on fees bythe NCSC directly related to WRC cases.
20 23, 40 6,162 Euro 34 cent.
(14:25):
Um, 20 22, 30 8,010 Euro, 40 centand 20 to 21 only 3000 281 50.
I also asked, uh, by parentstaking the NCSE to the WRC.
And since 2014, the total legalcosts were less than 15 times.
And so it doesn't seem to be parentsthat are causing the huge legal fees.
(14:47):
I mean, again, it's very hard to know.
I also asked them aboutresignations of CNOs.
He knows because I felt thatwas important for correlation.
And again, I should have been morespecific because the figures I was
saying don't really match the 31people that left between 2021 and 2023.
I know some people retiredand I know one that died.
However, just taking resignations intoaccount between 2021 and 2023, there were
(15:12):
more resignations in those two years.
Than in the first six yearsof the 2010s combined.
And again, I don't knowwhat that tells us.
It's just interesting to see theirfigures and we can draw whatever
conclusions we must from them.
I'm not sure whatconclusions I could draw.
The account of the NTSC from 2003 to2022 are interesting in many ways, it's
(15:37):
interesting to see the eye wateringamounts, which have come into the
budget over the years because wageshave remained relatively stable.
It's fascinating to see howthe total budget is spent.
Front-facing expenses remainedlargely stable, but other expenses
have increased by nearly 8 millionEuro a year in the last decade.
And ultimately asdisappointing as this might be.
(16:02):
I just couldn't bridge any furtherinto the walls of the organization.
I've no stories from the inside.
Yes.
So, all I can do is tell you thathopefully one day they will come.
All that's really left to do.
It's maybe come up with solutions.
(16:22):
It will be very easy for me toshare more stories about the NCSE.
My favorite one was B Iwas there for heartache.
With the new Brunswick model back in 2019.
And I'm not sure what actuallyhalted, whether that was the COVID-19
pandemic or the fact that it turnedout, it was going to cost more than
the current system was costing.
However, I feel it's only fair thatI would tell you what I would do if I
(16:45):
were the minister for education afterall, that's the title of my podcast.
Despite how bad things have become.
And despite had the NCSC wasslowly but surely becoming an Ima
punishable, bureaucratic machine.
I still think it's nottoo late to rescue it.
(17:06):
It's entirely a coincidence, butin the last few weeks, the NCSC
has made some announcements.
And.
On the face.
To ease many of the problems that theyactually created in the last decade.
And I'm going to acknowledge them.
I can go to explore them.
(17:26):
But you're going to have towait another couple of weeks.
When I aim to rebuild the N C S E.
The on-call dot net podcast is writtenand produced by me, Simon Lewis.
If you'd like to hear more of my thoughtson primary education in Ireland, you
should subscribe to my mailing liston Shaw dot Nash slash subscribe.
(17:50):
If you've enjoyed this podcast so far,please consider reviewing it on your
favorite podcast player, as it willhelp other people find it more easily.
Until next time.
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye-bye.
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