November 15, 2024 • 22 mins
In this final episode of Access Undone, I try to outline the ways I would reverse the damage that has been caused in the last decade by the Department of Education and NCSE. I explore three solutions and argue that if all three were implemented, it would save the agencies from being part of the 21st century's greatest education scandal and, even possibly put them in the same definition of Ireland's most famous minister, Donagh O'Malley.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to access on done.
(00:03):
The collapse of special education.
I special podcast from unsharp dot Nash.
This is Simon Lewis.
A teacher and principal for over 20 years.
In this series, I look back over theshort history of how children with
additional needs have slowly but surelybeen cast aside by the education system.
(00:27):
I argue that much like the crimes of theCatholic church on children, where the
scandal of the 20th century, that how thestate is treating children with additional
needs will be the scandal of the 21st.
During the Aon debacle.
The department of educationrun a number of webinars.
(00:51):
To explain the process to principals.
I attended one of them.
And I sat in my office, staring at myzoom screen with over 30 of my colleagues.
There was a nice man and womanfrom the department of education.
Who explained that there was a courtruling that meant that schools would
(01:14):
now be responsible for filling out theeducation profile for the Aon form.
He explained that they had run a pilotin several schools and that everyone
was really happy with dot pirate.
And there was verylittle workload involved.
He thanked us all for our cooperation.
(01:37):
When it came to question time.
I spoke up.
I explained I was one of the so-calledpilot schools and I told them how long
the form actually took to fill out.
Much longer than the 20 to30 minutes he had advertised.
I explained that I had actuallysurveyed several schools and none of
(02:00):
them were very happy at all with this.
I asked the room.
Had anyone else, any thoughtson it or had they been involved?
It's a very odd feeling.
Seeing 30 sets of eyes lookeddown after you say something.
And you just know.
(02:21):
They are letting you drown.
The guy from the department toldme that my complaint was the
first he'd heard about this.
He'd been to lots of schools in the pilot.
And that everyone.
He had spoken to.
I was happy.
(02:41):
Over the last few months.
I've charged.
It had the department of education and theNCSE have slowly, but surely made things
worse for children with additional needs.
I argued that as soon as therecession came in 2008, it was these
children that were hit the hardest.
And when we emerged from theemergency these same children
(03:05):
remained rooted in austerity.
Where the resources that were takenaway from them were never returned.
The NCSE never criticizedthe government for failing to
fund their service properly.
And in fact, their CEO at thetime, Teresa Griffin welcomed their
budget in 2012, which includeda 15% cut to resource hours.
(03:30):
Instead, they invested ways tosave money by cutting resources.
I am convinced the new Brunswickmodel was dropped once they
realized it actually costs morethan what they already had in place.
The massive expansion of whatthey call autism units without any
research into how they actuallybenefit children and using them.
(03:52):
Nevermind the possible ethics ofputting children into something called
units and providing minimal supportfor them when they are enrolled.
We also saw how the NCSE did everythingthey could to rid themselves of any
responsibility to any individualchild through the set allocation
(04:12):
model and instead forced schools toperform the miracle of the loaves
and fishes to resource children'sneeds with ever decreasing supports.
When there plan to not have any detailsof children risked being upended by
a court ruling, which would've seenthem forced to identify the needs of
children for the assessment of need.
(04:34):
Aided by their friends and thedepartment of education, as you heard,
just there, the representative bodies,which we discussed in a previous
episode on the unions, which we alsodiscussed in a previous episode.
They managed to wangle theirway out when schools were gaslit
into doing the work for them.
In 2023, they, again, tried to pull thewall over school's eyes by removing the
(04:58):
criteria for special allocation teachinghours after it was revealed that they
couldn't get the data from the HSE.
Uh, small uprising from parentgroups, advocacy groups, and a few
teachers was again, gotten overby the support of their friends.
Most infamously from the IPN who toldtheir own members how wrong they were.
(05:19):
Those inventing a new educational term.
Called quantum.
Which as I found funny, could bedefined as a unit of the smallest
amount of something, usually energy.
At the same time, the HSEfailed to meet the needs of
tens of thousands of children.
When it came to speech and language,occupational therapy, mental health,
(05:41):
psychology, psychiatry, and so on.
And in many cases, the only servicethat was available to any child with
additional needs was their school place.
As you can see the link betweenthe states treatment of women
and children in the 20th centurysupported by an independent partner
in the form of the Catholic church.
(06:03):
And now the 21st century is treatmentof children and their families.
This time supported byan independent body.
The NCSE the last decade to me is adark mark on our education history.
What's worse to me is that much likethe crimes of the 20th century, what
empowered the state and its partnersfor treating children in the way they
(06:26):
did was compliance through silence.
People that spoke up were often ridiculed.
Isolated.
Ignored.
And told that they werethe only ones complaining.
And everyone.
else was happy.
(06:46):
However, despite the last decade, asI said, at the end of the last episode
in 2024, the NCSE came out with aprocess which they called new for
resourcing special needs assistance.
Right now they're rolling out the redcarpet for us explaining how it works.
Perhaps we're about to see theseeds of hope for children with
(07:09):
additional needs from the NCSE.
I've reached the point of thepodcast now, where I feel I
need to offer some solutions.
If you've listened to this show for a fewyears, you might remember an episode I did
shortly after the newest CEO of the NCSE.
John Carney took the reins of the NCSE.
(07:30):
I given that I'm just big, loud mouthwith a microphone and a few ideas.
I don't expect anything Isay to ever hit his desk.
But for those of you that are interested.
I'm going to give you an updatedsummary of those thoughts.
I read back over my ideas.
And to be honest, I now disagreewith at least one thing I had
(07:53):
argued for a couple of years ago.
However, there's one idea.
That I really liked.
When I was discussing the,special education, teaching
hours, the allocations, andit was during a conversation.
I had on the radio withKaren Cudahy in Newstalk.
(08:14):
Well to tell the truth.
It came from the national principal'sforum, in the first place, but Karen
coulda, he made a really good analogy.
It was a nice, simple idea.
Which emerged after those set allocations?
I just said, and 20, 23, and I had thejob of speaking to Karen Cudahy on news.
Talk about it.
(08:34):
And he came up with the analogythat to me, made it make sense.
To the man on the street.
The national principal's forumrecommended that rather having all
the complicated, meaningless and anaccurate algorithms that decided what
special education resources to awardto children in schools, the principals
would simply out outline the supportsthey required for the school year on.
(08:58):
These would be provided.
They would do this on the system calledpod, which is the primary online database.
We do like our acronyms andwhatever it was put in pod.
That's what we would get.
And Karen could, he asked me.
Would it be similar to howpeople filed their tax returns?
(09:18):
Um, that is one decideshow much tax they declare.
And if something looks a littlebit fishy, Then it's investigated.
And to me, it was a really good analogy.
There are only 3000 primary schools inIreland and we have lots of data on them
already that is used for the allocations.
Their size and their dashstatus are two indicators.
(09:40):
Literacy and numeracy scores areterrible indicators, but I will
concede that they also exist andthey are the only other variables
now used for allocating resources.
The key variable missing are theactual needs of children in the school.
The national principal's forum suggested.
The principals would simply inputwhat the children in the school need.
(10:01):
Now, before you poopoo this idea andcame, the principals would take the
Mickey out of the whole thing andapplied for ridiculous amounts of
hours, way beyond what they need.
Just hang on for a minute.
And hear me out.
I don't think a school principal shouldbe expected to just pick a number out
of the air and pop it in the system.
The NCSE already has a systemwhere a school inputs, the
(10:24):
level of need of all children.
When they're applying for a view of theirresources, there would be nothing that
difficult about using that documents togive a reasonable calculation of what
hours each child's need equates to.
They've had that they had thatbefore 2017 and removed it.
So let's say my current set allocationin my school is about 200 hours a week.
(10:47):
That's go with $200 a week.
It isn't my allocation.
By the way, before you start going mad.
And let's say I filled out theform on a calculated 205 hours, but
I decided to apply for 250 hoursa week for just for the crack.
Well, that should raise alarm bells.
If I applied for 250 hours, whenI should, when the calculation
(11:10):
said I should be a brown 205.
And I should expect to havethat evaluated and reviewed.
The document could be used tocalculate the allocation of SNS as
well as this, with the same system.
And in some ways it already does.
If I need an extra SNA or twoin my school, I have to seek
review of my current resources.
(11:32):
Ultimately the department andthe NCSE has seven years of
data on the Set allocations.
So it would be extremely easy toget this system up and running.
With only 3000 schools and over200 people working in the NCSE.
I think this could be managedvery easily and very quickly.
There were lots ofadvantages to this model.
(11:54):
The main one is it takes a lotof bureaucracy out of the system.
We don't need all those peoplesitting in their offices and they
can now work directly with schools.
It also would stop the crazy horriblesystem, which has been christened
the cluster games by principals.
This model would mean that schoolswould receive an allocation to the
nearest full teacher and no morefractions of hours will be necessary.
(12:18):
However that aside, I don't believe thismodel alone would fix special education.
There's a reason why thismodel isn't already in place.
And this is because we alreadyknow the state and the NCSE is
not providing enough supports tochildren with additional needs.
It is likely to cost the givingchildren, exactly what they need.
(12:38):
We'll be more than double ofwhat they're giving already.
We need to look at ways tosystematically alter the education
system insofar as possible.
So you're going to haveto hear me at this one.
Too, but I think we might have.
Maybe too many teachers and SNSworking in special education right now.
(13:00):
Now, hopefully you haven't spelt yourhot cup of coffee all over yourself.
Hearing that did that big mouth Lewis,just say we've too many teachers and
SNS after everything he said aboutnot having enough supports in schools.
Sorry for shouting.
I'm getting onto myself.
Anyway, let me reverse a little beforeI go on and get you back to your coffee.
(13:21):
We probably don't have too many per se.
But we have too many working incontexts that they shouldn't be.
I believe we're actually missing anotherprofession within our profession.
Most developed countries have these asstandard in their classrooms these days.
And that position.
(13:41):
Is the teaching assistant positionor the TA, as it seems to be known in
most other countries that have them.
What is a teachingassistant you might ask.
And how is it different to aspecial education teacher or
a special needs assistant?
Well, the teaching assistants is someonewho is the second adult in a classroom.
Who supports the teacher with all of thethings that a PSAT or an SNA doesn't do.
(14:06):
For example, a teaching assistantcan sit with a group of children
in the classroom and help at work.
A teaching assistant can sit outsidethe classroom with a child who has
maybe has some sensory needs and needs alittle bit of time out of the classroom.
A teaching assistant can coverthe class for a very short time.
If the teacher is on their break or istalking to a child that outside of the
classroom or sorting out an incident thathappened on yard, a teaching assistant can
(14:29):
take care of display, work photocopying,and so on in a way they are the position
that the SNA originally was a generalsecond pair of hands in the classroom.
The SNA position has becomespecialized on children's care needs.
So we need the teaching assistant tolook after the non-car needs of children.
(14:49):
I feel so strongly about this, thatif someone was to ask me the first
thing I would do, if I were theminister of education, if I had a
magic wand, Well, you know what?
My first one would be toseparate church and state, but
my number two would actually be.
A teaching assistant in every classroom.
(15:10):
I really mean now my second thing thatI would ask for, if I was a minister
for education will be to have ateaching assistant in every classroom.
The impact of a teaching assistant inevery classroom, I would argue we'll
do more for children with additionalneeds than any other measure, except of
course, separation of church and state.
But that is for another day.
And honestly, I do believe the separationof church and state would have a massive
(15:34):
impact on special education in Ireland.
Anyway, having teaching assistants wouldallow special needs assistants, have the
time to upskilled to be able to offerbasic care services such as OT and SLT.
I really realize this is in theplans for S and A's from the NCSE
already, but I can't see where theywill get the time to do these things.
(15:54):
Without someone like a teaching assistantto take care of a lot of what used
to be known as secondary care needs.
You might think could be done.
But I have another bit of secretsauce to not only pulling the NCS.
I E out of the Meyer, thisstep will probably have a
massive effect on the H S E.
(16:17):
If you talk to most infant teachers inthe last couple of years and ask them,
what is the biggest issue you face?
They will likely tellyou one of two things.
One is a huge speech and language issue.
And the other is anxiety.
And this is where wraparoundservices need to be on site.
There are several countries whereit is entirely normal to have an
(16:41):
onsite psychologist in the school.
I went to Finland last year and I wentto a small school of around 200 pupils.
They had a psychologist two days aweek, shared the bigger school nearby
of about 300 pupils who had thepsychologist for the other three days.
Most finished schools have full-timepsychologists, social workers on nurses.
And just in case you're rollingyour eyes at the relieving.
(17:02):
Even Scandinavian, loving thatyou seem to hear all about why
is it always the Scandinavians?
Get it rice.
There are other places provincesin Spain and the Netherlands also
have this as standard and actuallysometimes better than Finland setup.
Can you imagine the positiveimpact on Irish primary schools?
If we had these now basic services, Ithink about all those pilots going on
(17:28):
in certain counties, which simply needto be rolled out to all primary schools.
I do understand that like Finland,we have a huge amount of small
rural schools, but Finland managersvery well with clusters of schools
sharing these wraparound services.
And if we had these people in our schools,I can guarantee you, you would see the
waiting lists for therapies, counseling,psychiatry, dropping to manageable levels.
(17:51):
Very quickly.
I would argue we wouldsort had so many issues.
We would end up saving more money thanwe currently spend dealing with the
issues when children get older, suchas the impact of early school, leaving,
teenage mental health and so on.
I think the NCSE could, uh, would bewell capable of managing a system like
this, the school inclusion model, whichthey were thinking of promoting a few
(18:15):
years ago was something like this.
Their therapies pilot was happeningin Wicklow ankle dare until COVID
times, and these were the, andthis was the seeds of this idea.
I'm not really suggesting anythingparticular wild here, anything I've
said here, I think is pretty sensibleand so much maybe conservative.
However, at the moment, theNCSE isn't quite there yet.
(18:38):
However, since the Starship recordingthis podcast, they look like they
might be starting to sow the seeds.
A few weeks ago, the NCSE publishedthe revision of the guidelines for
schools applying for an SNA review.
And to be honest.
It's not that it's very differentto what was there before.
In fact, it's not very different at all.
(19:00):
But it's how it's being rolled out.
Isn't really that bad.
And I was very, very early days,but if this is the beginning of
things to come, it is possible thatthe scandal of the last gate decade
may be on its way to being fixed.
Of course, there is a very longway to go on the NCSE structures
(19:21):
are still quite fractious.
For example, if you're applying for SCTsupports and SNA supports, you have to
deal more or less with two completelydifferent sections of the NCSE who won't
know a single thing about each other.
They need to untangle the layers ofbureaucracy that they built over the last
decade with all of the office staffs.
I get them out frontfacing around the country.
(19:45):
However, these already signsdo look slightly positive.
The question is how long willit take for the unraveling and
rebuilding to take to happen?
This episode is going out just before the20, 24 general that action and whatever
party is in charge of education andwhatever minister falls into the role.
(20:06):
I was special education.
If this continues to exist, I hope itis a row that is taken very seriously
with a decent minister who genuinelycares for children with additional needs.
I would hate for it to be givento someone who sees it as simply
a platform for a sexier portfolio.
I believe the minister who managesto fix special education will be
(20:28):
held with the same celebrationsas we do for the likes of dun MRT.
You brought in free secondlevel education in the 1960s.
He is still widely considered tobe the best minister for education
in the history of the state.
So the question for the next ministerfor education is will they do a donor?
Or will they like so many before themstick with the compliance of silence
(20:52):
and the destruction of soundbites.
As for the NCRC, after a decade of error,parable damage that was done to children
and those working with them will theseeds, they just planted continue to grow.
There's so many people I'd like to thankfor their support in writing this series.
(21:16):
And it's probably appropriate.
If not disappointingly predictable.
That I can't tell you their names.
The people that contactedme, contacted me anonymously.
I just fear for what mighthappen if they went public.
And in some ways for this series,I was simply the messenger.
(21:39):
The onshore.net podcast is writtenand produced by me, Simon Lewis.
If you'd like to hear more of my thoughtson primary education in Ireland, you
should subscribe to my maiden miston Shaw dot Nash slash subscribe.
If you've enjoyed the podcast, pleaseconsider reviewing it on your favorite
podcast player, as it will helpother people find it more easily.
(22:01):
Until next time.
Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you again soon.
Welcome to access on done.
(00:03):
The collapse of special education.
I special podcast from unsharp dot Nash.
This is Simon Lewis.
A teacher and principal for over 20 years.
In this series, I look back over theshort history of how children with
additional needs have slowly but surelybeen cast aside by the education system.
(00:27):
I argue that much like the crimes of theCatholic church on children, where the
scandal of the 20th century, that how thestate is treating children with additional
needs will be the scandal of the 21st.
During the Aon debacle.
The department of educationrun a number of webinars.
(00:51):
To explain the process to principals.
I attended one of them.
And I sat in my office, staring at myzoom screen with over 30 of my colleagues.
There was a nice man and womanfrom the department of education.
Who explained that there was a courtruling that meant that schools would
(01:14):
now be responsible for filling out theeducation profile for the Aon form.
He explained that they had run a pilotin several schools and that everyone
was really happy with dot pirate.
And there was verylittle workload involved.
He thanked us all for our cooperation.
(01:37):
When it came to question time.
I spoke up.
I explained I was one of the so-calledpilot schools and I told them how long
the form actually took to fill out.
Much longer than the 20 to30 minutes he had advertised.
I explained that I had actuallysurveyed several schools and none of
(02:00):
them were very happy at all with this.
I asked the room.
Had anyone else, any thoughtson it or had they been involved?
It's a very odd feeling.
Seeing 30 sets of eyes lookeddown after you say something.
And you just know.
(02:21):
They are letting you drown.
The guy from the department toldme that my complaint was the
first he'd heard about this.
He'd been to lots of schools in the pilot.
And that everyone.
He had spoken to.
I was happy.
(02:41):
Over the last few months.
I've charged.
It had the department of education and theNCSE have slowly, but surely made things
worse for children with additional needs.
I argued that as soon as therecession came in 2008, it was these
children that were hit the hardest.
And when we emerged from theemergency these same children
(03:05):
remained rooted in austerity.
Where the resources that were takenaway from them were never returned.
The NCSE never criticizedthe government for failing to
fund their service properly.
And in fact, their CEO at thetime, Teresa Griffin welcomed their
budget in 2012, which includeda 15% cut to resource hours.
(03:30):
Instead, they invested ways tosave money by cutting resources.
I am convinced the new Brunswickmodel was dropped once they
realized it actually costs morethan what they already had in place.
The massive expansion of whatthey call autism units without any
research into how they actuallybenefit children and using them.
(03:52):
Nevermind the possible ethics ofputting children into something called
units and providing minimal supportfor them when they are enrolled.
We also saw how the NCSE did everythingthey could to rid themselves of any
responsibility to any individualchild through the set allocation
(04:12):
model and instead forced schools toperform the miracle of the loaves
and fishes to resource children'sneeds with ever decreasing supports.
When there plan to not have any detailsof children risked being upended by
a court ruling, which would've seenthem forced to identify the needs of
children for the assessment of need.
(04:34):
Aided by their friends and thedepartment of education, as you heard,
just there, the representative bodies,which we discussed in a previous
episode on the unions, which we alsodiscussed in a previous episode.
They managed to wangle theirway out when schools were gaslit
into doing the work for them.
In 2023, they, again, tried to pull thewall over school's eyes by removing the
(04:58):
criteria for special allocation teachinghours after it was revealed that they
couldn't get the data from the HSE.
Uh, small uprising from parentgroups, advocacy groups, and a few
teachers was again, gotten overby the support of their friends.
Most infamously from the IPN who toldtheir own members how wrong they were.
(05:19):
Those inventing a new educational term.
Called quantum.
Which as I found funny, could bedefined as a unit of the smallest
amount of something, usually energy.
At the same time, the HSEfailed to meet the needs of
tens of thousands of children.
When it came to speech and language,occupational therapy, mental health,
(05:41):
psychology, psychiatry, and so on.
And in many cases, the only servicethat was available to any child with
additional needs was their school place.
As you can see the link betweenthe states treatment of women
and children in the 20th centurysupported by an independent partner
in the form of the Catholic church.
(06:03):
And now the 21st century is treatmentof children and their families.
This time supported byan independent body.
The NCSE the last decade to me is adark mark on our education history.
What's worse to me is that much likethe crimes of the 20th century, what
empowered the state and its partnersfor treating children in the way they
(06:26):
did was compliance through silence.
People that spoke up were often ridiculed.
Isolated.
Ignored.
And told that they werethe only ones complaining.
And everyone.
else was happy.
(06:46):
However, despite the last decade, asI said, at the end of the last episode
in 2024, the NCSE came out with aprocess which they called new for
resourcing special needs assistance.
Right now they're rolling out the redcarpet for us explaining how it works.
Perhaps we're about to see theseeds of hope for children with
(07:09):
additional needs from the NCSE.
I've reached the point of thepodcast now, where I feel I
need to offer some solutions.
If you've listened to this show for a fewyears, you might remember an episode I did
shortly after the newest CEO of the NCSE.
John Carney took the reins of the NCSE.
(07:30):
I given that I'm just big, loud mouthwith a microphone and a few ideas.
I don't expect anything Isay to ever hit his desk.
But for those of you that are interested.
I'm going to give you an updatedsummary of those thoughts.
I read back over my ideas.
And to be honest, I now disagreewith at least one thing I had
(07:53):
argued for a couple of years ago.
However, there's one idea.
That I really liked.
When I was discussing the,special education, teaching
hours, the allocations, andit was during a conversation.
I had on the radio withKaren Cudahy in Newstalk.
(08:14):
Well to tell the truth.
It came from the national principal'sforum, in the first place, but Karen
coulda, he made a really good analogy.
It was a nice, simple idea.
Which emerged after those set allocations?
I just said, and 20, 23, and I had thejob of speaking to Karen Cudahy on news.
Talk about it.
(08:34):
And he came up with the analogythat to me, made it make sense.
To the man on the street.
The national principal's forumrecommended that rather having all
the complicated, meaningless and anaccurate algorithms that decided what
special education resources to awardto children in schools, the principals
would simply out outline the supportsthey required for the school year on.
(08:58):
These would be provided.
They would do this on the system calledpod, which is the primary online database.
We do like our acronyms andwhatever it was put in pod.
That's what we would get.
And Karen could, he asked me.
Would it be similar to howpeople filed their tax returns?
(09:18):
Um, that is one decideshow much tax they declare.
And if something looks a littlebit fishy, Then it's investigated.
And to me, it was a really good analogy.
There are only 3000 primary schools inIreland and we have lots of data on them
already that is used for the allocations.
Their size and their dashstatus are two indicators.
(09:40):
Literacy and numeracy scores areterrible indicators, but I will
concede that they also exist andthey are the only other variables
now used for allocating resources.
The key variable missing are theactual needs of children in the school.
The national principal's forum suggested.
The principals would simply inputwhat the children in the school need.
(10:01):
Now, before you poopoo this idea andcame, the principals would take the
Mickey out of the whole thing andapplied for ridiculous amounts of
hours, way beyond what they need.
Just hang on for a minute.
And hear me out.
I don't think a school principal shouldbe expected to just pick a number out
of the air and pop it in the system.
The NCSE already has a systemwhere a school inputs, the
(10:24):
level of need of all children.
When they're applying for a view of theirresources, there would be nothing that
difficult about using that documents togive a reasonable calculation of what
hours each child's need equates to.
They've had that they had thatbefore 2017 and removed it.
So let's say my current set allocationin my school is about 200 hours a week.
(10:47):
That's go with $200 a week.
It isn't my allocation.
By the way, before you start going mad.
And let's say I filled out theform on a calculated 205 hours, but
I decided to apply for 250 hoursa week for just for the crack.
Well, that should raise alarm bells.
If I applied for 250 hours, whenI should, when the calculation
(11:10):
said I should be a brown 205.
And I should expect to havethat evaluated and reviewed.
The document could be used tocalculate the allocation of SNS as
well as this, with the same system.
And in some ways it already does.
If I need an extra SNA or twoin my school, I have to seek
review of my current resources.
(11:32):
Ultimately the department andthe NCSE has seven years of
data on the Set allocations.
So it would be extremely easy toget this system up and running.
With only 3000 schools and over200 people working in the NCSE.
I think this could be managedvery easily and very quickly.
There were lots ofadvantages to this model.
(11:54):
The main one is it takes a lotof bureaucracy out of the system.
We don't need all those peoplesitting in their offices and they
can now work directly with schools.
It also would stop the crazy horriblesystem, which has been christened
the cluster games by principals.
This model would mean that schoolswould receive an allocation to the
nearest full teacher and no morefractions of hours will be necessary.
(12:18):
However that aside, I don't believe thismodel alone would fix special education.
There's a reason why thismodel isn't already in place.
And this is because we alreadyknow the state and the NCSE is
not providing enough supports tochildren with additional needs.
It is likely to cost the givingchildren, exactly what they need.
(12:38):
We'll be more than double ofwhat they're giving already.
We need to look at ways tosystematically alter the education
system insofar as possible.
So you're going to haveto hear me at this one.
Too, but I think we might have.
Maybe too many teachers and SNSworking in special education right now.
(13:00):
Now, hopefully you haven't spelt yourhot cup of coffee all over yourself.
Hearing that did that big mouth Lewis,just say we've too many teachers and
SNS after everything he said aboutnot having enough supports in schools.
Sorry for shouting.
I'm getting onto myself.
Anyway, let me reverse a little beforeI go on and get you back to your coffee.
(13:21):
We probably don't have too many per se.
But we have too many working incontexts that they shouldn't be.
I believe we're actually missing anotherprofession within our profession.
Most developed countries have these asstandard in their classrooms these days.
And that position.
(13:41):
Is the teaching assistant positionor the TA, as it seems to be known in
most other countries that have them.
What is a teachingassistant you might ask.
And how is it different to aspecial education teacher or
a special needs assistant?
Well, the teaching assistants is someonewho is the second adult in a classroom.
Who supports the teacher with all of thethings that a PSAT or an SNA doesn't do.
(14:06):
For example, a teaching assistantcan sit with a group of children
in the classroom and help at work.
A teaching assistant can sit outsidethe classroom with a child who has
maybe has some sensory needs and needs alittle bit of time out of the classroom.
A teaching assistant can coverthe class for a very short time.
If the teacher is on their break or istalking to a child that outside of the
classroom or sorting out an incident thathappened on yard, a teaching assistant can
(14:29):
take care of display, work photocopying,and so on in a way they are the position
that the SNA originally was a generalsecond pair of hands in the classroom.
The SNA position has becomespecialized on children's care needs.
So we need the teaching assistant tolook after the non-car needs of children.
(14:49):
I feel so strongly about this, thatif someone was to ask me the first
thing I would do, if I were theminister of education, if I had a
magic wand, Well, you know what?
My first one would be toseparate church and state, but
my number two would actually be.
A teaching assistant in every classroom.
(15:10):
I really mean now my second thing thatI would ask for, if I was a minister
for education will be to have ateaching assistant in every classroom.
The impact of a teaching assistant inevery classroom, I would argue we'll
do more for children with additionalneeds than any other measure, except of
course, separation of church and state.
But that is for another day.
And honestly, I do believe the separationof church and state would have a massive
(15:34):
impact on special education in Ireland.
Anyway, having teaching assistants wouldallow special needs assistants, have the
time to upskilled to be able to offerbasic care services such as OT and SLT.
I really realize this is in theplans for S and A's from the NCSE
already, but I can't see where theywill get the time to do these things.
(15:54):
Without someone like a teaching assistantto take care of a lot of what used
to be known as secondary care needs.
You might think could be done.
But I have another bit of secretsauce to not only pulling the NCS.
I E out of the Meyer, thisstep will probably have a
massive effect on the H S E.
(16:17):
If you talk to most infant teachers inthe last couple of years and ask them,
what is the biggest issue you face?
They will likely tellyou one of two things.
One is a huge speech and language issue.
And the other is anxiety.
And this is where wraparoundservices need to be on site.
There are several countries whereit is entirely normal to have an
(16:41):
onsite psychologist in the school.
I went to Finland last year and I wentto a small school of around 200 pupils.
They had a psychologist two days aweek, shared the bigger school nearby
of about 300 pupils who had thepsychologist for the other three days.
Most finished schools have full-timepsychologists, social workers on nurses.
And just in case you're rollingyour eyes at the relieving.
(17:02):
Even Scandinavian, loving thatyou seem to hear all about why
is it always the Scandinavians?
Get it rice.
There are other places provincesin Spain and the Netherlands also
have this as standard and actuallysometimes better than Finland setup.
Can you imagine the positiveimpact on Irish primary schools?
If we had these now basic services, Ithink about all those pilots going on
(17:28):
in certain counties, which simply needto be rolled out to all primary schools.
I do understand that like Finland,we have a huge amount of small
rural schools, but Finland managersvery well with clusters of schools
sharing these wraparound services.
And if we had these people in our schools,I can guarantee you, you would see the
waiting lists for therapies, counseling,psychiatry, dropping to manageable levels.
(17:51):
Very quickly.
I would argue we wouldsort had so many issues.
We would end up saving more money thanwe currently spend dealing with the
issues when children get older, suchas the impact of early school, leaving,
teenage mental health and so on.
I think the NCSE could, uh, would bewell capable of managing a system like
this, the school inclusion model, whichthey were thinking of promoting a few
(18:15):
years ago was something like this.
Their therapies pilot was happeningin Wicklow ankle dare until COVID
times, and these were the, andthis was the seeds of this idea.
I'm not really suggesting anythingparticular wild here, anything I've
said here, I think is pretty sensibleand so much maybe conservative.
However, at the moment, theNCSE isn't quite there yet.
(18:38):
However, since the Starship recordingthis podcast, they look like they
might be starting to sow the seeds.
A few weeks ago, the NCSE publishedthe revision of the guidelines for
schools applying for an SNA review.
And to be honest.
It's not that it's very differentto what was there before.
In fact, it's not very different at all.
(19:00):
But it's how it's being rolled out.
Isn't really that bad.
And I was very, very early days,but if this is the beginning of
things to come, it is possible thatthe scandal of the last gate decade
may be on its way to being fixed.
Of course, there is a very longway to go on the NCSE structures
(19:21):
are still quite fractious.
For example, if you're applying for SCTsupports and SNA supports, you have to
deal more or less with two completelydifferent sections of the NCSE who won't
know a single thing about each other.
They need to untangle the layers ofbureaucracy that they built over the last
decade with all of the office staffs.
I get them out frontfacing around the country.
(19:45):
However, these already signsdo look slightly positive.
The question is how long willit take for the unraveling and
rebuilding to take to happen?
This episode is going out just before the20, 24 general that action and whatever
party is in charge of education andwhatever minister falls into the role.
(20:06):
I was special education.
If this continues to exist, I hope itis a row that is taken very seriously
with a decent minister who genuinelycares for children with additional needs.
I would hate for it to be givento someone who sees it as simply
a platform for a sexier portfolio.
I believe the minister who managesto fix special education will be
(20:28):
held with the same celebrationsas we do for the likes of dun MRT.
You brought in free secondlevel education in the 1960s.
He is still widely considered tobe the best minister for education
in the history of the state.
So the question for the next ministerfor education is will they do a donor?
Or will they like so many before themstick with the compliance of silence
(20:52):
and the destruction of soundbites.
As for the NCRC, after a decade of error,parable damage that was done to children
and those working with them will theseeds, they just planted continue to grow.
There's so many people I'd like to thankfor their support in writing this series.
(21:16):
And it's probably appropriate.
If not disappointingly predictable.
That I can't tell you their names.
The people that contactedme, contacted me anonymously.
I just fear for what mighthappen if they went public.
And in some ways for this series,I was simply the messenger.
(21:39):
The onshore.net podcast is writtenand produced by me, Simon Lewis.
If you'd like to hear more of my thoughtson primary education in Ireland, you
should subscribe to my maiden miston Shaw dot Nash slash subscribe.
If you've enjoyed the podcast, pleaseconsider reviewing it on your favorite
podcast player, as it will helpother people find it more easily.
(22:01):
Until next time.
Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you again soon.
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