CM#8: Biohacking Mitochondria for Peak Performance w/ SLU-PP-332 & BAM15

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Architect of Resilience podcast, where
we explore the secrets of overcoming life's challenges and
unlocking unstoppable strength through deep personal conversations
and expert insights.

(00:46):
Man, I am so excited today. Biohacking cellular energy for peak performance. The mitochondrial matrix
is what we're going to call today. So we often think about mitochondria as the
powerhouse for your cells. But today we're going to dive a lot deeper around the
secrets of mitochondria health and optimizing your body's energy systems for better performance, longevity, and
well being. We've all heard it before. You know, they're the powerhouse of the cell.
But what if I told you mitochondria are so much more than that? These dynamic
cellular structures are critical regulators not just for
energy, but also cellular communication, brain function and
cognition, immune system response, inflammation
control, gene expression, and aging.
And when mitochondria become dysfunctional, they

(01:07):
play a major role in the progression of numerous disease pathologies
from metabolic disorders such as
Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and even conditions like chronic
fatigue and autoimmune dysfunction. So in today's episode,
we'll explore three cutting edge compounds that
are revolutionizing mitochondrial health. We

(01:28):
did a Separate episode on
SLU PP332. It's a powerful
mitochondrial enhancer that amplifies
energy production and reduces oxidative stress, helping
cells perform at their peak. And let's
not forget, this is an incredibly unique compound because of the. The

(01:49):
ERR Alpha receptor that's in every part of
the body. And this allows you to target tissues you'd never be able
to do before. So it's a really
great product to put in concert with a lot of
other interventions to
attack so many areas from

(02:11):
eyes to brain to organs that you can't hit. We're going to talk
about Urothin A. This is pretty popular in the
biohacker scene right now. It's a compound that
promotes mitophagy, the process of clearing out damaged
mitochondria to allow healthier ones to thrive. That's
vital for anti aging and cellular efficiency. The

(02:33):
last one you probably haven't heard of before.
Bam 15. Remember that name. It's going to
be all the rage in a few years from now.
This, it's hard to get your hands on. There's
very few people. But we're going to talk about that in a bit. But that's
because it's so new. But man, it is, it's.

(02:55):
It's wild. Uh, it is a potent mitochondrial
uncoupler that boosts fat burning,
enhances metabolic flexibility and supports energy
balance. But here's the important part. These compounds
are incredible on their own, but they must be used. And we're going to talk
about this specifically strategically and we'll break

(03:16):
down why. And while combining. Why
combining the products like SLU, PP332 and
BAM15 at the same time or in the same
capsule is counterproductive and could
undermine your mitochondrial efficiency. The
science behind mitochondrial fission, fusion

(03:37):
and cell dynamics, the crucial processes that dictate when
mitochondria need to divide, merge and repair themselves.
And how to build a comprehensive mitochondrial
protocol. So you can do that, that strategic piece that I talked about that
leverages these compounds correctly to maximize energy
longevity and metabolic function. So by the end of the episode,

(04:00):
I hope you'll have a deeper understanding of why mitochondrial health
is the foundation of your well being and how to support
it intelligently with these powerful compounds.
So, yeah, that's our episode.
Let's get rolling. What do you think, Anthony? Welcome to the show.
Great to be back on here. I always enjoy our conversations and

(04:24):
that was a perfect intro. Mitochondria are just
fascinating topic and I think we're going to have a lot of fun with this
today. Yeah. Shall we start with.
Do you want to start with the. A little recap on slew?
Yeah, maybe even before we get into slu,
if it's all right, I think. And this will really kind

(04:47):
of set the stage for why there has to be
precision with mitochondrial compounds. What
can go wrong? And it's really
a simple problem that breaks down with a simple
solution. But I think as we kind of dig into this, people
really be able to follow along.

(05:09):
So if it's okay, I would love to explain to
people kind of what happens, you know, what, what
are, what are our energy systems we use in
mitochondria? And the two primary ones we're
going to focus in on are going to be oxidative
phosphorylation. And the other one

(05:31):
would be glycolysis. And when we
think about both of those, you know, they're both, they both have their
place. Glycolysis is if we need to burn
energy really, really, really fast. But we're not going to make a whole lot
of ATP with that usually like 4 and
oxidative phosphorylation, that's when things are humming

(05:53):
along. We yield 32 to 36
ATP and that's where we have that metabolic flexibility
that allows us to use fats or
glucose. And the reason it's Important. The reason
I wanted to kind of set the stage with this is to understand what
goes wrong with the mitochondria. It's

(06:15):
when we start to have a breakdown in our ability to
access that oxidative phosphorylation.
Then when we're relying on glucose, things happen. Like
we get desensitized to glucose because our body's trying to
use it so fast and it starts to

(06:35):
cause us to accumulate triglycerides and fats in the liver
and we're not efficient at making ATP which our immune
system needs, so it creates inflammation in the body.
And with just that little bit, I think if we take a second
and kind of think about what's going on here, you know, when we lose that
metabolic flexibility in the mitochondria,

(06:57):
it's so easy to trace everything back to wow, you know,
it's a cellular metabolism issue. And if we just focus on
fixing that cellular metabolism, regaining that
metabolic flexibility, you know, we can
untangle these chronic problems, we can
improve performance, we can have sharp brains, all that good

(07:19):
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(08:01):
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health today. Yeah, I think that
that's absolutely a great
starting point for, for that discussion

(08:23):
and to recap that right. It's, it's a crucial
process for our mitochondria where energy. So when we're talking about
the oxidative phosphorylation in
relation to mitochondrial health. Right. The energy produced from
incorrect me if I'm in, if I'm making a mistake on this anymore.

(08:44):
But produce from ATP in the final
step of combining that electron transport chain
is. Is that right? Yeah.
And just to unpack that a little bit more so people can follow
the process. That's a perfect recap of it. But this will
give us even a little bit, kind of zoom in on it a bit

(09:06):
more so we have five different complexes,
and the first one, it's the NADH
dehydrogenase complex. And that's kind of like the water
pump. Basically what it's going to do is it's going to take these electrons
from nadh, it's going to use their energy
for a proton pump, which is just moving these hydrogen

(09:28):
ions across the mitochondrial membrane. A good way to think about it
is it's just like a water pump on a
hydroelectric dam. It's moving
electrons from NADH and it
kind of pumps it uphill. Those protons cross the
membrane and that is the beginning of the creation of

(09:48):
energy. And kind of a cool side note, you'll remember our episode we
did on ketone ester. And
when we think about NAD plus to NADH ratio, that's our
redox potential. And what that means is when we wake up in the
morning, we want to have a lot of these hydrogen ions available
to donate through these complexes.

(10:11):
So our mitochondria have the energy so that they can
do the things they need to do, maintain metabolic flexibility.
So, simple trick, you know, just taking that half a shot of ketone
ester before you go to sleep, and you've improved your redox
potential. So then when we move on to complex number
two, the cesinate dehydrogenase, it's kind of like a

(10:33):
smaller side pump, like a secondary water wheel even.
And it doesn't really pump the water uphill directly like
complex one. What it does is it feeds water into your
system at a slightly lower level.
Complex two is going to accept
electrons. So remember, complex one, we're donating an

(10:54):
electron. Complex two, we're accepting an
electron. So it's just kind of like passing a football
or a baton and a relay race. Then
complex 3, cytochrome BCE 1, complex
passing the buckets along. So just like this relay station
or a bucket brigade passing the electrons down the

(11:17):
line, it continues to pump the water uphill. These
protons are moving uphill now, and it's using
the energy released from handling them from one bucket
to another until we start to create
this potential store of energy. And kind of a cool side note,
I just learned this. These protons have got

(11:39):
the. It's like a
lightning bolt, the amount of energy that's in them. So
I kind of picture like Back to the future, almost like
13,000 gigawatts or whatever. Yep.
So then after complex three, we move on to complex four.
That's cytochrome C oxidase, and that's kind of the final

(12:02):
reservoir to Build on our analogy. And what's happening
in this step is electrons are going to be delivered to
oxygen. It's just like water flowing downhill in
a reservoir. And complex four is going to safely
combine these electrons, oxygen
and protons, and that creates water. And that

(12:24):
finishes the electron's journey and allows us
to. It also contributes to pumping more of these protons kind of
uphill and completes that proton gradient.
So thinking about our body as that electrical
system, this is what's moving those electrons through that system.
And then at the end of that electron transport chain,

(12:48):
oxygen acts on the final electron acceptor, right? Combining
those electrons and hydrogens to form water. And
that final step with oxygen right.
In the complex 5. This is, this is like the big
grand finale. And that's where we make
ATP synthase. And

(13:10):
complex 5 is like that turbine placed at the bottom of the dam.
And when these protons are flowing back downhill,
the turbine kind of spins. It
harnesses that energy flowing of electrons.
And a simplified explanation is
this spinning turbine that uses stored energy from proton

(13:31):
flow, generates ATP. ATP, of course, is our
currency of energy. And everything in our body runs on
it. So that's kind of a overview of these five
complexes, starting with, you know, at night when we do
our little ketone ester, creating a supply of
hydrogen ions that can be donated into complex

(13:54):
one and then accepted in complex
two, and so on and so on until we finally make this
amazing ATP. So
I think that'll provide some much needed context as we continue
our discussion. Yeah, that's fantastic. And then the
other side of that, let's talk about the glycolation and mitochondrial health. So

(14:16):
glycolation, as you said before, is the. Refers to that process where
sugar molecules bond to proteins, fats, DNA
without enzymes, without enzyme
control, forming harmful compounds known as
ages. I know that comes up, that term comes up a lot
in, you know, those. Listen to the biohacker world. But

(14:37):
advanced glycolation end products, and
this process is accelerated by oxidative stress
and mitochondrial dysfunction, both of which contribute to
significant aging, chronic disease, and
decreased cellular energy. I know I see this quite a
bit with clients when we've got

(14:59):
hyperlipidemia often. Also combined
with, you know, the start of, you know, pre
diabetes, they're all linked together with
that inability to process that. So mitochondria, I mean, they're,
they're responsible for producing that ATP through the
oxidative phosphorylation, like we talked about. But poor

(15:21):
mitochondrial function increases oxidative
stress, which accelerates that glycolation by forming these
ages. And as the
efficiency of the mitochondria decline, the cells
produce these excessive free
radicals, further driving. So this

(15:41):
glycolation process is, you know, it just wants to cycle up because
it's damaging the proteins like collagen and
elastin, leading to skin aging,
cardiovascular issues, cognitive decline.
All these things are starting to happen.
Kind of a really cool side note to build on that. If

(16:03):
you're sitting next to a friend right now, look on the back of their
neck. And if you see creases, looks like
little cracks in the skin, those are literally associated
glycation end products. And it's a sign that their sugars are
kind of spiking and dropping. And exactly what Chris is talking about is
going on. So it's a real non invasive,

(16:24):
accurate way to measure am I making these associated
glycation end products? And if I am like, oh, probably need to think
about what I'm doing. Yeah,
that's. That's great. So did you want
to jump in? Where. Where did you want to jump to next? I
think few. The cell

(16:45):
dynamics. Yeah, I think if we talk a little bit
about kind of how
mitochondria grow, so to speak, like the
fission, the fusion, then I
think we're going to have a real clear sense of
these are what the mitochondrial compounds do.

(17:07):
We want to speed this up, we want to slow this down. These
go together, and I think it'll really come together
nicely. All right, yeah, let's dive into that. I think this is another one
for you to take the lead on. But the science behind mitochondrial
fission, fusion, and those cell dynamics and how
mitochondria are these dynamic organelles that are

(17:29):
constantly undergoing these processes of fission, fusion,
and these processes are crucial for maintaining
mitochondrial quality control, production,
and cellular health.
Yeah, absolutely. So mitochondrial
fission is acting as an early

(17:51):
sensor of cellular stress. And when we think about
cellular stress, like, if we've got like,
low calories or oxidative stress or
other exogenous factors like toxins, this is going
to create mitochondrial
fission. And

(18:14):
fission essentially is these things are kind of
splitting apart during, like, prolonged
stress. The mitochondria are going to go undergo this
fission. And the mild. When
we have a more mild stress, like something we can adapt to, we
favor more fusion. And I'll unpack that a

(18:35):
little bit more so it makes sense. So fission,
basically what's happening is you've got this
mitochondria and it's been working its ass off to
keep up with our energy demands. And
just like, if we had a power tool, you know, it starts to break
down a little bit and that brilliant mitochondria starts

(18:58):
to segregate the damaged components.
And the reason it does that is so that it kind of can facilitate this
mitophagy, which is going to be essentially removing the bad
parts and leaving like a better
mitochondria. Then when we
think about fusion, what's happening is just kind

(19:20):
of like what it sounds. These little mitochondria are fusing
together. So you've got two that kind of have like maybe one
has like three quarters of a good mitochondria, one has
half a good mitochondria. Now they fuse together.
You've even got spare parts and you have a better mitochondria.
So fusion is really good. We want that to happen.

(19:43):
And as long as that division process is kind of kept
under wraps, you know, we're able to
essentially have that division, we're
able to have that kind of partitioning of bad
parts and we're able to join good things together. So that's
really our ultimate goal. I, like a gearhead like me,

(20:04):
loves the spare parts analogy. But yeah,
for mitochondrial quality control, this
balance between the fission and fusion, that's what ensures
the mitochondrial health. So fission isolates damage,
pairs that off so you know, for degradation, while the
fusion, you know, rescues partially damaged

(20:26):
mitochondria, allowing them to share components which for
healthier mitochondria. And you know, that's why it's
so important for mitochondrial health. The efficient, you
know, dynamics are
crucial for those things that we've talked about. Energy
production through ATP synthesis, cellular repair and regeneration,

(20:48):
metabolic function and longevity. And anti
aging dysregulation in these processes is going to be
linked to aging, neurodegenerative disease,
metabolic disorders and cardiovascular issues.
And it makes perfect sense when you think about it too, all
these things. Essentially what's happening is we've accumulated bad

(21:10):
parts in mitochondria, we don't have enough good mitochondria. So
when we have a mitochondria with bad parts, it's not going to be able
to effectively maintain that metabolic flexibility
that allows it to use oxidative phosphorylation,
where we have that significantly higher yield of
ATP than glycolysis. And that's what you see in

(21:32):
cancer, basically. When we talk about a Warburg effect, it's
where we're more glycolytic. And just to
kind of highlight the inefficiency of being in
that constantly glycolytic state,
you're basically starting with 2
glucose, 2 ATP and you're ending up with

(21:55):
4 ATP. So your, your cell's working a lot
harder than it needs to. And kind of on a side note,
and this would be a whole nother podcast, but when we think
about, and I was guilty of this for years, you know, I
skinny kid, wanted to put on muscles. So I'm like mtor, mtor,

(22:15):
mtor. And when we're in that MTOR dominant
state, we tend to use glycolysis
weight training. You know, it's primarily going to be
glycolytic activity. And
then when we build those fast twitch muscle fibers that

(22:35):
prefer glucose and we have this dominance in our system of
things that would are more adept at using glucose,
we start to lose that metabolic flexibility. And when we lose
that metabolic flexibility, we're under
fueling our immune system. So that's going to create inflammation
and we're not really

(22:58):
meeting our energy demand. So we start to feel fatigue.
Things like our heart, which is the most metabolically
demanding tissue in our body, and our brain, which is the second most,
they don't have enough energy. So that's where your brain fog comes in.
That's where your cardiac events come in. So you
can really, really see the importance of just simply

(23:21):
maintaining metabolic flexibility. And again, going back to the
ketones, how when we start to tend
towards this more glycolytic state,
that's a simple intervention where we can start
to re establish some metabolic flexibility. And there's a lot more
to it than that. But hopefully that gives people a little bit more

(23:43):
context and understanding of some of the things we'll be talking about.
Yeah, and for reference, without diving into it, the, the ketone
that Anthony and I are referencing is beta
hydroxybutyrate. It's sold as KE4.
I think there might be some other versions out there as other products
as, as well besides that one, but that's the one that you're looking

(24:05):
for. Should we dive into then how
we remediate this? Yeah, I think it's
a perfect opportunity and probably kind of
a fun time to jump right in and introduce people to the
concept of BAM15, what it is and why it works
in a situation like this. So to set the

(24:27):
stage, imagine I'd. Like to mention like this discussion around
BAM15. We've, we've been doing this podcast and discussion back and
forth now for I don't know,
six, eight months, something like that, Anthony, since we first and like
the very first call we got on I was like, hey, I want to talk
to you About I've got this, you, unique approach to how I subdue some things

(24:48):
that, you know, people I've been doing for a long time.
And we're talking about some compounds that
are, you know, not normally talked
about. And it was a little tentative around bringing it up
and, and Anthony's like, yeah, let's talk about that. And so it
was a fun discussion. Pretty well came out of it. Yeah.

(25:10):
Now here we are, you know, quite some time later, we're going to dive into
it now. Yeah. So
BAM15 is a mitochondrial uncoupler.
And when we think about mitochondrial uncouplers, basically
what it is. And this is why I wanted to talk about the different
energy processes. It's going to be a type of compound that

(25:32):
disrupts that normal process of ATP production in
cells, in particular the mitochondria. And
unlike traditional fat burning, compounds that are going to
increase the metabolic rate by stimulating the nervous system,
like caffeine or epidrine
or even slew, increases metabolic rate.

(25:54):
BAM15 works at a cellular level, making mitochondria
burn more fuel without producing additional ATP.
So at first, you know, we start thinking, or at least
I would think, like, didn't we just say we need ATP? Like, how
is this a good thing? Well, and it's bypass, it's
allowing those protons to bypass this ATP synthase

(26:18):
process through the mitochondrial membrane. So
that's, that's quite unique. Precisely. Yeah.
The. If we think about the mitochondria as a power
plant and their job being to kind of burn fuel, like whether it's
glucose or fat, to create the
ATP, usually they've got this well organized

(26:39):
system where these protons, it's just like what we were describing,
are being pumped across this gradient and creating this
electrochemical gradient. And what BAM15 does
when it uncouples, it makes our mitochondria
leak these proteins back across the membrane without
making ATP. And the forces in the

(27:01):
mitochondria end up burning even more fuel to
restore the lost gradient. So essentially
our cell is like, man, you know, we're supposed to be making
36 ATP and
we're not making 36. We got to work harder.

(27:21):
And when things work harder, we
have this increased energy expenditure without stimulation,
like caffeine or something like that, that could blood
pressure. Essentially it kind of
slows down these, these processes. This
gets us back to where fusion is going to be

(27:43):
dominant because
essentially it's kind of letting our cells, it's an
oversimplification, but it's letting our cells kind of get Caught up
on clearing out the non working parts in that
mitochondria from the rapid fission that was occurring
and saying like, all right, let's sort this out, let's get

(28:05):
some good parts, let's divide, let's find
some other good parts so we can start putting together good mitochondria.
And our body really wants to do that because remember, it's having a really hard
time making energy. So it can either create a
more efficient energy producing process, the oxidative
phosphorylation, but we're cheating it out of electrons, or

(28:27):
it can make more mitochondria, mitochondrial biogenesis. So
that's kind of the mechanism behind how that ends up working.
Yeah, I should be. We should note that this process
generates heat instead of ATP, so that effectively
increases the energy expenditure without the additional physical activity
as well. And by promoting this mitochondrial

(28:49):
uncoupling, as you noted, BAM15 drives the body to burn more
calories to maintain its core temperature and metabolic
function. But as you noted, unlike stimulants,
caffeine, ephedrine, so on, BAM15 doesn't act on the central
nervous system. So what it's going to do is reduce the risk of
anxiety, jitteriness, or that cardiovascular

(29:12):
strain associated with it, or the demand on the
pituitary and the adrenal release over time, which is going
to cause some depletion as well. Yeah.
And people are probably, they've probably heard of the
DNP and I think it's a good opportunity to kind of highlight
just some of the nuances that make BAM15

(29:34):
essentially safe. Where DNP
can be problematic if you don't know what you're doing.
Yeah, BAM15 is the one that has been used in the
human clinical trials and for the sake, like it was developed
for the safety profile as it relates.

(29:54):
Yeah, the essentially what's happening with
the BAM15, it's going to have a high
fat burning output because it's shuttling these
protons back across the membrane that collapses that
proton gradient. And as a result, the mitochondria burn
more fat and more glucose to compensate

(30:16):
for that lost energy. What's unique about it
is generally uncouplers generate heat. DNP
definitely generates heat, so does fccp, which they use
in research a lot. But bam, you don't have
this increase in body temperature.
DNP can affect the heart rate. BAM does

(30:38):
not affect the heart rate. As far as
toxicity, there's low to no toxicity
with bamboo and even at small
doses with DNP there's high toxicity.
And when we think about Things like diabetes,
bam. It shows a lot of promise for

(31:00):
correcting things like diabetes. And that really just kind of comes back to when it
collapses that proton gradient, it restores metabolic
flexibility. DNP does not have that
ability. So BAM is kind of
DNP version 2.0. They made it more tissue
specific. They took out the excessive dissipation of

(31:22):
heat, reduced the half life. So it's a one hour half life.
Whereas fully clearing the metabolites from DNP
can take up to 36 hours. So those can
accumulate and essentially create a
greater uncoupling. And it works.
ENP works on more uncoupling proteins

(31:43):
than BAM does. So you have uncoupling proteins in your brain,
your heart, all different tissues. BAM is a little more tissue
specific. So really kind of a
cool, cool compound. Yeah,
yeah. The, the research on the metabolic
syndrome, the type 2 diabetes is really, really fascinating

(32:05):
with, it relates to BAM15 and with the
fat loss component. The research on
fatty liver is also really, really interesting as well, being able to
target and remove the, the,
the fat in that area as well. And thank you for the correction on the,
the heat dissipation as it relates to BAM15 on that.

(32:28):
The. Yeah, it's really interesting because
uncouplers, I mean, if we're losing an electron, it should
increase heat, but for some reason it doesn't. And
my theory on that is because it doesn't hit the broad
spectrum of uncoupling proteins that
DNP does. But honestly, I don't have an answer, so that'll be

(32:51):
something fun for me to read about. Yeah, yeah. And when we talk
about the, the research and the impact on the type 2
by diabetes, I think it's important to note that it really does
effectively reduce the visceral fat,
which is the dangerous type linked to these metabolic
disorders as well. And that is one of the, you know, it is hard to

(33:12):
target that, that area and that's, that's really impactful.
Yeah, there was a really interesting study they did where they
compared BAM 15
FCCP.
The GLP1s looked at weight loss and BAM
outperformed them by 23%. Now there's no

(33:34):
effects on
digestion, no effects on
suppressing hunger, anything like that. This
is all just happening at a metabolic level. And that's a
hard concept sometimes for people to kind of get their head around. They're like, you
know, we're so conditioned to think we need to eat less to lose weight,

(33:55):
but once we really. And that's why I'm so fascinated by learning about
different energy systems and how to turn them on and off. Once we
understand those dynamics, we can see, you know, it
starts to fill in the blanks for like, how do we have these people that
say they're eating 5,000 calories and they're, you
know, pardon my English, but dick skin lean. And

(34:17):
then they have these people that are eating 800
calories and it looks like you could roll them down a hill.
And it just kind of comes back to again, the
metabolic flexibility, understanding how we make energy
and a healthy mitochondria. Yeah,
so you noted the GLP. So obviously GLPs are

(34:39):
really popular for fat loss and there's a
lot of other health benefits. We've got an entire episode on those, so I won't
recap that, but really, really
fascinating. But they do work on the weight loss side simply
through crushing the, the appetite if you take them at
the higher dose. Now, there is some impact on metabolic and cardiovascular.

(35:01):
Again, don't need to go there. But one of the areas that's unique with
BAM15 is the impact on preserving lean muscle
mass as well. So we've got preserving lean muscle
mass, improving metabolic flexibility,
reducing visceral fat, improving metabolic
disorders like reducing oxidative

(35:22):
stress, and repairing your
mitochondrial tissue through that
fusion process. Like, that's, that's. I
mean, that's just a fascinating, amazing
compound. Yeah, absolutely. And what's really
cool, now that we kind of have an understanding of it, we

(35:43):
can start to kind of piece together, you know, how we
can leverage this in a training program.
The. If we think about on days that we're working out,
basically, we want to have that high energy production, we want to ramp up
that, that engine, and we want

(36:03):
to have mitochondria really, really, really
working hard. So that on a day that
we're working out, slu makes perfect sense that
essentially we're increasing the amount of ATP we're producing
and we're increasing the amount of ATP we're
using. So it's basically a futile

(36:27):
cycle. But that increases the cell's
capacity to make and use
energy. And because of that, there's a
stimulus for mitochondrial biogenesis. The cells like, man, you know,
I'm humming along, but I'm really not gaining any more ATP than I was.
Like, I need more mitochondria. So that's going to kind of accelerate that

(36:49):
rate of mitochondria
cleaning house, splitting up and make
more parts available. Now then, on the day that we're not training
that repair day after we've sent that inflammatory response,
then that's when we want to have that quality control. That's when we
want to slow those processes down. And that's exactly what BAM does.

(37:13):
It slows things down. So we have time to make sure that we're getting rid
of all the mitochondrial garbage and
we have time to fuse the good mitochondria together.
So now we have this army of just awesome mitochondria. Rinse and
repeat. We go to the gym the next day and we use our slew.
That's going to really work those mitochondria, make them on a divide and

(37:35):
then quality control the day after. So
that is a very easy strategy to follow.
Slew days of training, ramp that up. Better ATP
energy production, and BAM. 15 on the off
days, move the other direction. How.
Would you employ the urolithin A with

(37:58):
this protocol? And what are the benefits of that?
Yeah, urolithin A is a fascinating compound.
So kind of a little bit about it. Urolithin A,
it's naturally derived metabolite and it comes
from dietary polyphenols. They're
called ilogatinins. And they're

(38:20):
found in things like if we eat pomegranate or walnuts or berries.
And what's interesting about
these is if you think about these
ilagitinins as precursor molecules in certain fruits
and nuts, when you eat them, what happens is the bacteria are.
Microbiome are going to digest these and they

(38:42):
convert olegic acid to
urolithins, primarily urolithin A.
And then that's going to be absorbed and it's going to be
circulated. But here's the interesting part. Not
everybody can produce urlithin A. And the reason for that, it
comes down to microbial diversity. Some people have, you know, not

(39:04):
good gut health. And that's why, you know, so many people, I mean,
it's. It's almost cliche these days, but, like,
fix your gut, it's at the core of everything. And this
is a perfect example of that. The biggest claim to
fame, when we think about, like, what can urlithon A offer
is it enhances our mitochondrial health through

(39:26):
that mitophagy. And
mitophagy is the body's way of
removing these old, damaged mitochondria
and replacing them with new healthy ones. So
urolithin A really simply boosts
mitophagy. And just another way to say it's just
selectively recycling damaged or dysfunctional mitochondria is

(39:50):
the way I think about it. Just, it's a recycling process. Yep.
And when we think about when is this going to be the most
beneficial? So let's think about what we put together so far.
We know on training days we'd be using slu
and that's going to be rapid division, a lot of
garbage produced, hint, hint. Then

(40:12):
on our repairing days where things are able to kind of slow
that process down and we've got that quality control,
main thing we gotta mitigate is gonna be excessive
oxidative stress from the previous day. So
something like a CoQ10, hint, hint, or a debenone

(40:32):
makes perfect sense. So when we think about
kind of now, you know, painting the landscape for how can we
really maximize some of these mitochondrial compounds? How can we put them
together and make sure they're, we're getting the
most out of them and we've got these, this
robust alliance of healthy

(40:54):
mitochondria. It makes, makes a lot of sense
why on days where we're training, we're doing the
slew, the urolithin, then we have our rest
days, we're doing our BAM
and CoQ10, maybe some Alpha lipoic
acid. And that simple

(41:16):
strategy, you're really going to be maximizing mitochondrial
biogenesis. You're going to be having mitophagy where you're clearing out
the bad parts. You're going to have quality control
so you're dominant infusion, not
fission. And
then, you know, we can even talk about what can we do to take it

(41:37):
to the next level. We already mentioned the ketone esters the
night before. To maximize redox potential.
Some other simple things we can do, and we've covered these in
previous podcasts, are things like
5amino, 1 MQ or 1 MNA that are going
to decrease the

(41:59):
NNMT enzyme. So we have more
electrons available for these new healthy
mitochondria that we've been making. And we can
use things like carnitine that's going to help
shuttle fat to the cell so that we can
burn more of it and prevent, you know, that accumulation of

(42:21):
triglycerides intramuscularly and in the liver.
And yeah, we're, we're
really shaping up to have a pretty good protocol here. Yeah, yeah,
the acetylly now carnitine, carnitine,
really, really valuable in that process for, you know, we're freeing up with, you're
doing this, you're, you're, you're increasing, you know,

(42:44):
those fats in that bloodstream from all those processes. And now we want to shuttle
and drive that to your muscle. The carnitine is really powerful for that. Does a
bunch of other things besides upregulating angiogen receptors and so on. I'm a huge proponent
of it. Should probably have a separate discussion at some point. I really love to
mix with that vasoblitz because then we're also
creating the volume of movement of fluids into the

(43:06):
tissue, into the muscle and training. So on your training days, you
know that, that, that, that, that carnitine and then the vasoblitz.
If you're doing this protocol, absolutely, you're gonna have just
some, your workouts, you're just gonna have this pump and just feel
amazing. Alright guys, we talk a lot about mental
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(43:28):
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(43:50):
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(44:12):
And guess what? You're burning off all this bad stuff in your body.
And you know, on a side note, just to add to that and why
vasoblitz is such a good choice. And
I stand corrected. Previously, when we had discussed
methylene blue, I was, I was big on it
and Dr. Seeds educated me on why that's

(44:36):
not a good idea. So I think it's really worth talking about. And I think
this will really underscore the importance of having a Vasa blitz in there
and other things to boost nitric oxide. So when
you take methylene blue, essentially what you're doing, you recall we
talked about those complexes, you're able to,
it can work as a reducing or an oxidizing

(44:58):
agent, so it can kind of hop over those first two
complexes. Sounds like a good thing. Easier to make energy.
Here's the problem. It inhibits way
upstream the ability to
make nitric oxide. And when we don't have nitric
oxide, everything takes a hit. That's going to be our

(45:19):
endothelial cells like our, it's going to be
our heart, our brain, our muscles, we need to
have nitric oxide. So hold up on that
methylene blue. Unless you're recovering from like a Covid or something. I
am so glad to hear you say this, Anthony. I have been, I've been
struggling with this. Everybody on the methylene blue train, I'm like,

(45:41):
I just can't get on board with this because of the, the impact of
nitrogen oxide. I'm like, if you want to have that uptake of those
photons through life, there's a lot of, through light. There's so many
other ways to, to do that where you've got natural
compounds, unlike this chemical methylene blue, that comes out of the
industrial realm, you know, like I use

(46:03):
ghku. Hey, guess what, it's blue too, by the way.
Doing some red light therapy, like, you'll notice the effects, you'll see your HRV
values come down. All of that. I think that there's other ways
to do this. There's times and times and places for that
methylene blue. But the methylene blue is the answer, I
just think is the wrong approach. Which is why, you know, I promote

(46:25):
those products that have that, that the
nitrogen response in them. So yeah, I really,
really great to hear you on track with that this morning. No,
I, again, I stand corrected because I was, when I first
learned about methylene blue and I was just looking at the complexes and
thinking like this is efficient. It increases absorption of red light.

(46:47):
Who wouldn't want that? But fortunately, Dr. Seeds corrected me on
that and I've been standing on
my podium and yelling as loud as I
can, please stop taking methylene blue. Lean on things that are going
to improve nitric oxide like your Vasa blitz or
citrulline or arginine alpha ketoglutarate. Yeah, that's

(47:09):
all that, that's all the stuff that's in there. So, yes, lean on those
and give the GHKU a try
before your red light and let me know what you think. Yeah, I love
the thought of using the ghk. That's brilliant.
So, yeah, the urolithin A, just to recap that,

(47:30):
best known for its ability to stimulate mitophage
recycling, as I noted, damaging dysfunctional mitochondria. By
clearing out inefficient mitochondria and encouraging production of healthier
ones, Urolithin A improves energy efficiency and cellular
performance. This effect is particularly important in those individuals
with metabolic dysfunction, fatigue and just that,

(47:52):
age related mitochondrial decline, which is why it's been
so popular in the biohacking community. Those impacts
are going to be anti aging and longevity. It's really
noted for the improved exercise performance like the recovery and
lack of soreness post from post exercise is
something that you can definitely see. As noted cognitive support.

(48:15):
Those mitochondrial boosting effects extend to the brain
cells with improved energy production helping cognitive clarity,
overall mental performance and anti inflammatory properties to
reduce neuroinflammation contributing to to
cognitive decline. And then the anti inflammatory
properties and cellular protection

(48:36):
those are strong. By reducing those and the
oxidative stress it supports tissue from damage and supports
recovery. I guess I already hit on that with. You can literally
feel that with the the less soreness
post exercise. So metabolic
cardiovascular concerns it's going to have an impact on that.

(48:57):
So the strategy though is important and
that's what I hope people can take away from this. These compounds aren't
necessarily an everyday product. If you want to combine them
together and get the best of all these worlds
doing them in this fashion where you've got your ural thin
A and your

(49:19):
SLU PP on your training days, ramping that
up. Then you've got your BAM
15 CoQ 10 the Alpha
Lipic acid, things like that on your off days. Really
great strategy and you're going to be amazed with the
results with this absolutely phenomenal compound. And don't

(49:41):
forget some some carnitine always a go to some
vaso blitz. Throw that in on your training. You're going to love it. And
people that really want to take it to the next level that beta
hydroxybutyrate the ketones just a small bit
before bed, some in the morning on your, you know when
you're fasted or before or during training.

(50:03):
Absolutely phenomenal. And if I could add a couple more
nuggets in there like if you really want to take this to the next level.
Again thinking about the mitochondrial peptides that we know about
like AMAT C which is an exercise mimetic and
SS31 which is going to stabilize cardiolipin.

(50:23):
I was thinking about mentioning those two but I want to get
to too many things out there because we also mentioned the 5Amino
1 MQ. The 5Amino 1 MQ. Would you use that still
daily with this protocol? So I
used to use it daily and there's nothing wrong with that at all. What I've
switched to is on days that I'm training I use the

(50:46):
5amino 1 MQ. Days that I don't train I use 1
MNA. The reason reason for that is 1 MNA reduces inflammation
in the endothelial tissue. So again We've got our
anti inflammatory stuff on that non training day to
accelerate the recovery process and both of those
are a great way to increase NAD without

(51:08):
having to worry about feeding the wrong cells. But
there's not a deficit like if you mix the
SLU and the BAM together. If you did a
everyday type approach the
so the, the one mq
the. The five amino one MQ you could do every day.

(51:29):
Yep. Yeah. The what you wouldn't want to do is BAM and
slew in the same capsule at the same time. You're going to be
dissipating a ton of electrons and that will generate excess
heat and you're negating the benefits of both of them. One of
them is trying to speed you up, the other one's trying to slow you down
and it's like having your car in neutral and

(51:51):
pushing down the gas all the way. Like you're going to burn crap
ton of gas and you're not going to go anywhere
and you're going to ruin your engine which is
separate those apart. So the day apart works but let's
say somebody's training in an evening and then next day in the
morning. Like what is just from a you know, a time

(52:13):
fence standpoint. Yeah. So the beauty of it is both of
them have a really short half life. As long as you're doing them kind of
an every other day thing, you're not going to run into any problems
there. The
Ideally, you know, 24 hours but
with Bam only having a one hour half life and being fairly

(52:36):
tissue specific and slew I think
I'd have to look it up. I really don't know off the top of my
head but I think it's six hours.
You're. You'd be fine. There should be enough clearance even if
you worked out in the evening and then next day for
recovery. Took your. Took your bam. Nice.

(52:57):
The last thing that and I don't mean to
overwhelm people with stuff but this is just such a cool compound.
It's going to protect your kidneys, it's going to protect your heart. If you're
Apoe4 it crosses the blood brain barrier so helps
with accumulation of harmful
byproducts from fat metabolism in the brain.

(53:19):
And it's a PPAR gamma agonist which means it's going to
signal your cell to use more fat for an energy. So there's
a lot of synergy with the compounds we've talked about. And ready
for this drum roll. Telemacerton
that Yep, that makes sense.
I what's the dosage that, is it

(53:41):
10? So you could go as low as 20
milligrams twice a day. It comes
in up to an 80 milligram tablet,
depending on if you're. If you've got, like, kidney issues or
high blood pressure, they might put you on
a higher dose, but as little as 20 milligrams. You should see

(54:04):
the benefits with the PPARY signaling. And
I'd even go so far as to call it a longevity compound.
You would need to get a prescription for that from your doctor, but I don't
think they'd have any problem writing for that one,
especially with all the literature that's coming out for
its neuroprotective benefits and

(54:27):
protection for the kidneys and all that good stuff.
Yeah, I take that. Me, too.
Yeah. All
right. This has been absolutely so much fun.
I don't know if we should do a recap. I feel we've kind of recapped
things a bit. Oh, yeah. Important. We talked about. BAM15 is hard

(54:49):
to find, Right. Well, you can find that
somewhere, right? Indeed. Yes.
Yes. Go to Christmas
should hopefully be up by the time this podcast posts. We'll try to get that
time together so that it's available. We
do have.

(55:12):
We do have the COAS posted for all
of the. The SLU and the BAM 15,
which, if you're buying from any source, please check and make sure that they've got
that available, because we've definitely seen some potency
issues with some of the products available on the market.
So, yeah, I think you'll be happy. Go check it out. And

(55:35):
if you. Yeah, if you don't want to try it, that's cool, too. But we
love trying to talk about fascinating things, and if
it's something that we truly believe in, and it's hard to come by trying to
make those available to our audience
in a high quality, controlled manner that you can trust.
Anything that you'd like to add today? No, as. As always,

(55:58):
I love our conversations. I think this is such a cool
topic, mitochondria, and we're really just kind of
scratching the surface for
future of health performance when we get into the
mitochondria stuff, you know, having these compounds available, if
you're using them responsibly, of course, and

(56:19):
strategically, you really have an
awesome toolbox where you can get that
fat loss, get that boost in performance, and improve
your health. So, yeah, just be
strategic. Make sure you're using a good
quality product and enjoy the benefits for your

(56:41):
mitochondria. Yeah. And if
you haven't I need to. Here's our our guest spot for
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(57:03):
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(57:25):
finding how your own individual recovery is. There's
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to coach you. So.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Check it out. 29amonth.
You should be able to find a link to that in any of

(57:45):
my bio links or
kristoffen.com. Yeah, it's really a good investment. I
think the challenge people have when they work out from my
strength coaching days, it's always how much should I lift or what
should I lift? And the app takes the guesswork out of it. It's a
smart app, makes training fun, easy, and as

(58:07):
Chris said, it's like having a coach in your pocket. Can't say enough good things
about it. Yeah. Thank you, sir.

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CM#8: Biohacking Mitochondria for Peak Performance w/ SLU-PP-332 & BAM15

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