June 24, 2025 • 48 mins
On this special episode of the Architect of Resilience Podcast, host Chris Duffin welcomes back Dr. Rahul Desai, a regenerative musculoskeletal radiologist and expert in innovative therapies for joint and spine health. Originally recorded during a private member community session, this conversation dives deep into the cutting-edge world of red and near-infrared light therapy—otherwise known as photobiomodulation.
Dr. Desai shares his extensive experience using platelet-rich plasma (PRP), bone marrow, and fat-derived treatments to help patients heal without surgery, and he unpacks the science and safety of red light therapy for tissue regeneration, pain relief, and overall wellness. The discussion is packed with direct audience questions, revealing practical insights on treatment timing, optimal dosing, systemic versus local effects, and the latest research on using light therapy for everything from injury recovery to anti-aging and sleep.
This episode of the ARCHITECT of RESILIENCE podcast is available on Apple, Spotify & YouTube, and is sponsored by
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Rahul Desai is a seasoned regenerative musculoskeletal radiologist and physician, with nearly two decades of experience since beginning his career in 2008. Specializing in non-surgical approaches, Dr. Desai combines his diagnostic radiology expertise with innovative regenerative therapies, using patients’ own platelets, bone marrow, and fat to facilitate healing.
Here are my top 3 takeaways:
-
Red Light Therapy for Both Injury and Wellness: Dr. Desai broke down how photobiomodulation helps tissues heal by stimulating stem cell activation, improving mitochondrial function, reducing inflammation, and even supporting healthy aging—even if you aren’t currently injured.
-
Microdosing Matters: Instead of large, infrequent treatments, consistent, shorter daily exposures seem to offer maximized benefits for both local healing and systemic wellness. Dr. Desai personally uses red light therapy twice a day for sustained joint health and energy.
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Individualized, Layered Regeneration: Combining targeted regenerative therapies (like PRP, stem cell injections) with tools like red light, movement, and lifestyle changes creates better—and often visible—healing outcomes. Dr. Desai emphasized the importance of precision diagnosis and treatment for truly resilient recovery.
Whether you're an athlete, healthcare professional, or just striving for better daily function, this conversation is loaded with actionable science and practical pearls.
Contents:
00:00 Regenerative Musculoskeletal Radiologist Expertise
05:57 "Photobiomodulation Safety and Risks"
07:48 Optimal LED Therapy Duration
10:50 Stem Cell Activation Techniques
16:03 Therapy Localization Protocols Inquiry
17:12 Rotator Cuff Therapy Considerations
20:20 Irradiation's Role in Tissue Healing
26:09 Circadian Rhythm Enhances Mitochondrial Efficiency
27:29 Evening Optical Pathways Enhance Sleep
31:27 Energy Routines and Sleep Impact
36:30 Inadequate Treatment Dosing Concerns
40:23 Enhancing Healing with Stem Cells
41:08 Red Mite's Pain Reduction Mechanism
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Architect of Resilience podcast where
we explore the secrets of overcoming life's challenges and
unlocking unstoppable strength through deep personal
conversations and expert insights. I wanted to give
you a heads up that this episode of the Architect of
Resilience podcast is going to be a little different. The reason for that
(00:21):
is it wasn't originally intended to be a public
video. So I have the private community which
most anyone can join. It's a free that is on
the link is on the education and Community. There should be a comment,
a link here down in the notes or on the website
chrisduffin.com if you go there. And go to Education Community,
(00:45):
you'll be. Able to get access to our member forum.
We have about 2,000 members and
and the paying portion of those members. So again the forum is absolutely
free, but the paying portion we have regular live calls
that are just for those members. And Dr.
Rahul Desai, who has been on prior podcast with us,
(01:08):
joined for one of those sessions and I really felt that this one
should be open to the public. So we recorded this a couple months.
Ago and I've been sitting on it. Because, well, the quality of the recording
from a video aspect isn't normally up to par and you're also going to see
some other people interacting, asking questions besides myself.
So I just wanted to share the format of this video
(01:31):
and why it's a little bit different. But I think that you'll get some
tremendous value out of this piece which. Is why I wanted to share
it. So just a little heads up on. Why the look and feel
is a. Little bit different than the remainders. Hi everybody, I'm Rahul
Desai. I've been working as
a regenerative
(01:53):
musculoskeletal like joint and spine
radiologist and regenerative doctor for
approximately from 2008,
so 17 years or so and
really focused on using
platelets, autologous substances so
(02:15):
patients own bone marrow and fat. That's my primary
tools for regeneration. And then using my diagnostic
skills as a radiologist to figure out what's going on with somebody, obviously
seeing them in the office and clinic and then
placing those materials with image guidance into structures
that could potentially benefit from that. So any ligaments, tendons,
(02:38):
joints, bone, cartilage, discs in the spine and
know, lo and behold, it actually helps those tissues heal. So in the right
setting we don't need surgeries, we don't need other interventions. Sometimes it
augments surgeries that if somebody needs a surgery it'll help it heal
better. And then in that time have
(02:58):
delved into other areas of regenerative medicine. So,
you know, obviously the healthier the body is, the better the body heals.
And we're, you know, we want our patients to do really well. So
we've been, I've been very interested in all different sorts
of, you know, medicines. We had a functional medicine doc
for a long time. We had trainers, you know, mind body
(03:21):
health. We use a lot of energy based medicine nowadays.
You know, have been using shockwave for a long time and then, you know,
basically got my master's degree in, in the last year, year and a half
in red light therapy. It's a
proverbial master's degree, but really took a deep dive.
Worked on starting a company, it's called Red Vibe Health. And
(03:43):
you know, really exciting with kind of mitochondrial health and activation
and leveraging that to heal. So that's kind of my background
and you know, became friends with Chris in the last
year or so and you know, excited to,
to meet y' all and hopefully, hopefully it can be a resource to you and
you can answer questions and talk about stuff and I'm here to learn as well.
(04:07):
Yeah, I'll start with my question. So on the
podcast we did, you talked about the length
of time and overdoing it can
ramp things up, maybe too much. But you
were suggesting 10 minute, 12 minute sessions,
maybe twice a day at the max.
(04:30):
What are the implications of doing more than
that? Yeah, when you think of,
and you're speaking of photobiomodulation, so that's the
fancy term for red and near infrared light
therapy. So by shining this light onto
tissue, onto the body, you modulate cell
(04:51):
activity. And I want, like, when you think about it, think
about it in, in a couple of different ways. One way is,
you know, if you have an injury or you have tissue that's inflamed,
irritated, broken down, and you want that to, and, or painful and
you want that tissue to heal, then you're going to directly
shine that light or that photonic energy. Right. There's photons coming from the red
(05:15):
and near infrared onto that tissue to stimulate it to heal.
The other way to think about it is that when you shine the light,
the term irradiation is putting light on tissue or energy into
tissue. It's not radiating it or damaging it, but
irradiation of the tissue with that light stimulates systemic
responses too. You get stem cell activation, you
(05:37):
get increased energy in the system, in your whole body.
That's another way to think about it. When you're doing that, can you do
too much to one area or can you do too much to the system
potentially. And so there is, there's a curve, a bell
shaped curve called orange tools curve. And so too little is not going to do
much. You know, there is a, you know, the big part of the curve
(06:01):
or the, the hump of the curve where you're going to get most of the
benefits. And then if you do too much, those benefits are going to start to
diminish. The good news with photobiomodulation is it's very
safe, especially with the devices that we have or the
devices that you can have at home, these Class 2 devices.
There's a really big safety margin. So it's kind of
(06:22):
hard to hurt someone. What would
that bad outcome be really? You start to get thermal
effects so you get to get too much heating. So if you put it on
one area for too long, so say it's really close, you're depositing a high
amount of energy or jewels into the tissue and you keep it
there for 30, 40 minutes, an hour, two hours, it can definitely cause heating
(06:44):
of the tissue. And you're going to get some, maybe even local tissue damage.
It's going to be mild, but you could get some thermal injury or burns.
Okay. The same thing can happen with say a laser. The laser
has the same wavelengths. So if you think of these, the red and near
infrared as the medicine, right. So if we look at
say a simple medicine like an Advil, right. So the, the
(07:06):
wavelength is the medicine. So there's different medicines. You have, you know,
6106-506806-70858, 10.
Those are different things that are going to affect the, those tissues.
And the dose is like say you take an advil and it's
200 milligrams or 1 milligram or 500 or 600 milligrams,
that's the amount of energy, that's the dose. So that's going to be a
(07:30):
measure of like the irradiance, how powerful the light is and then how long you
put it over the tissue. Okay. And how close that is, that's what the
dose will get. So you have to be careful. So one is the
wavelength and that's the medicine and then the
dosing has those other parameters. Does that
make sense? So you want to get the right dose. But the good news is
(07:52):
there's a significant margin. So anywhere, five, 10
minutes with say a device that has a good amount of energy and I can
speak to our devices and those that are similar. If
you get that type of panel with a powerful LED that you're going to get
enough dose, like for skin and superficial tissues
within five minutes. If you're affecting deeper tissues like tendons, ligaments,
(08:15):
muscle, like that kind of system where you want a systemic effect, then you're looking
at anywhere to up to 20 minutes. And then you can change the area
so you can have the, if you do, say, 20 minutes on your abdomen
and you want to do your back, that's not a, you're getting a cumulative
dose, but it's not going to be dangerous to your back. Right. So you wouldn't
want to do, say 40 minutes just on your abdomen. So you could do 10,
(08:36):
15 minutes, 20 minutes on your abdomen, turn around, you know, treat your back
or treat your legs, depending on how big the device is. You know, now we
even, we've sourced some beds so you, you know, you have a
full body dose there, you're going to be more limited because you're
getting everywhere. Right. So then you want it 15 minutes and then you're, you're done
for the day. So Katie was asking,
(08:58):
does the amount of melanin make a difference?
Not a huge difference. They have tested different, like
skin, skin colors in the
dosing, and there's not a huge variance between,
you know, white skin types and, you know,
dark. My skin darker. There's not a lot of variance
(09:21):
into that tissue. So you can still stay within that,
that zone. Would you
mind flipping your phone again in case I use any recordings? You're all
sideways. That way we don't have to edit it. Yeah.
All right. Other questions from anyone else? Yeah, Ben,
go ahead. Well, I have all the
(09:44):
questions, so.
But yeah, so you're, you're talking about the,
the 15 minutes on your, your, your beds,
right. Or larger panels. Right. And you're talking about moving the
smaller panels around
(10:05):
if you were trying to affect deeper
tissues. Right. Is there a,
a max benefit, if you will,
for different parts of your body? Right. So like, if you were
to, if you had one of your smaller panels, for example,
right. 20 minutes on my
(10:28):
shoulders and 20 minutes on my legs. 20 minutes here
and 20 minutes there. Right. Like, at what point is, is there a
cumulative limit there,
if you will, or is it,
is there some, is there a max
that the system can take is really what I'm asking. No, you're going to,
(10:51):
if you like, with a smaller panel, small, light, and you're moving it into different
tissue, you're going to activate that tissue differently there
you will get systemic benefits. Right? But you're not going to put
yourself in harm's way by moving, moving it around. And it's just
time. It takes a, you know, you're, you're spending a lot of time,
but that's not going to be dangerous to the system. If anything, you're
(11:13):
going to get a, a larger systemic response. So when
you're putting it on a, or a, a, you know, a limb,
then the fat tissue in that area and the
bone in that area, the stem cells, the cells that are,
you know, they're called per sites in the fat, and there's
mesenchymal stem cells in the bone marrow. Those are going to get activated
(11:34):
and then they're going to get deposited, they're going to get into the bloodstream.
Okay, so when we talk about like stem cell activation, what happens is they
kind of wake, they're dormant and they're waiting for signals.
This is a signal and the way that it gets activated. So imagine they're like
the firefighters in the fire department, right? They're hanging out in their,
you know, chilling and relaxing. And then the alarm goes off
(11:57):
and they have to get into the fire engine and go, right. And so that's
the bloodstream. So when they, they come out, they crawl out.
It's pretty neat. If you watch YouTube, there's some really cool
micrographic videos that show these cells crawl
into the, the blood vessels and then they flow and then they're in
the, they're in the bloodstream and wherever there's injury
(12:19):
or dysfunction, they exit.
So that's the nice thing. So when you get. So we talk about the systemic
response. So even after you do the light therapy, within
15, 20 minutes, and then it peaks at about two or three
hours, you have this release of stem cells. So you hear people
getting, for wellness or injuries, they get IV stem cells
(12:43):
in this country, there's a lot of concern about that.
It's considered by some illegal, I wouldn't want to go into
that. But the theory of it is that, hey, you get this systemic dose of
stem cells and they can cross your blood brain barrier, they can go to injuries
that you don't even know are happening. So that's what's happening. So when you're moving
that device around, you're kind of adding to that benefit,
(13:05):
but you're also treating the local tissues to get that, those cells
to heal, to get that the mitochondria in those regions, the cells
like all the nuclear transcription factors that, that start to develop. The proteins that
are created when you shine the light on a local tissue, you get that local
benefit. I hope that makes sense. So
I was going to just say. Elaborate on that just a little bit. Just like
(13:27):
from the BFR world, like the prescription protocols for your
shoulder is to do the BFR cuffs on your legs
because it's that systemic release is going to cause those same growth
factors to go throughout the body and then be able to hit. So yeah, you're,
you're targeting local tissue, but you also have the systemic effect where you can't actually
isolate the shoulder. But we're going to create that so that
(13:50):
those stem cells and growth factors are running through the body.
So just to clarify, right,
it sounds like moving the panel around
is certainly not a problem. Right.
But I would want to stay, if I had
(14:11):
an isolated injury or soreness or whatever, I would want to stay
on that for something like 20 minutes. 10 to 20 minutes, is
that? Yeah, 15 to 20 minutes. And you can test that again.
It depends. How close are you to the device? Right. There's a
inverse square loss. So the farther you get away, you're losing,
(14:31):
you know, a square of that energy.
So you want to be closer to the device. So that changes the amount of
energy that's deposited into the tissue. But somewhere, you know, 15,
20 minutes in a localized area, say a knee, shoulder,
you know, ligament, tendon region, you're going to get a nice
amount of energy deposited into that tissue. And then the other benefits that
(14:53):
we're seeing long term are, you know, consider it kind of like
micro dosing. So getting a huge dose at one time
is not going to be as good as getting numerous doses
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10% off. Hey Brian, I'm really interested in
any questions that you might have given the population
that you work with being, you know, a little bit different maybe than
the population that you know a lot Of, Yeah.
(16:00):
Clients of people on the call here. Well, I had, I had
a question first regarding localization
of the therapy is do you have
protocols for like a knee or a shoulder joint, something
in terms of the angle, does the angle and the
location of the panel actually affect
(16:24):
the radiant to the specific, you know.
You know, if I tear a rotator cuff, right. Do I have to have
the panel in a certain position to optimize local,
local therapy on, on the injured tissue?
And it sounds like it's almost
(16:47):
more beneficial to just do a, you know, like a bed, a full
body, you know, like, like you were talking about the
micro dosing because it, because it affects stem cells
throughout the body. So. Yeah, that was, that was the question
I had. Yeah, the,
the not so much, you know, angle, it's how close it is to
(17:10):
the, the tissue. Okay. And if you think about like the rotator cuff
is a three dimensional structure from front to back, you
know, and it kind of wraps around the humeral head. So depending.
And the, you know, a tear or injury can be anywhere along there. So depending
on where you have the injury. Theoretically, yes. The closer you have it to that
tissue, the better effect it's going to have.
(17:33):
But that's sometimes hard unless, you know, like, if I, if I, you know, was
doing an ultrasound and knew exactly where the, the injury was, then we can place
the device closer to that. But in general, when you're doing, you know,
a knee or a shoulder, and if you get a, you know,
dose in the front and the side, in the back, if you want to, if
you even want to do that, you can move it around and
(17:54):
circumferentially. Same with the knee. Right. So if somebody has knee
arthritis, really, what compartment is it affecting? You know,
usually it'll, it'll affect maybe one area more than the other. So if somebody
has a medial meniscal tear or the pain on the inside of their knee or
some arthritis there, then maybe you want to get more dose, you know,
on the inside. If they have patellofemoral, you know, so underneath
(18:16):
the kneecap, if there's arthritis there, if they have pain going downstairs, those
types of things, or has, you know, crepitus behind the knee, then more of
a frontal approach, maybe you spend more time in that position.
Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Thank you.
I'm sorry. Yeah, you can move it around. So even if you were saying like,
(18:36):
hey, I'm going to do, you're 20 minutes to a certain area
or a knee, right. Then you could spend maybe five or 10 minutes in different
positions. And you can move it around. You can move it around a little bit
or move your knee. Now as far as the, the
beds they are going or a larger panel. The benefit of that is you're
getting more dose systemically. Right. So
(18:58):
definitely I like, like the one I have, you know, we have multiple
at home. The one I use, I use mine twice a day.
So I do about seven to 10 minutes twice a day. Current knock on wood.
Currently I'm not, I'm not having any specific injuries. And I think, you know,
because I've been doing this for, you know, a year now straight,
I think my injuries have dramatically diminished. Okay. So I have a
(19:22):
hyper ligamentous. I don't know if you've heard of EDS or Ehlers Danlos.
Ehlers Danlos syndrome. So if you look at my thumb, I can bend it back
this way. I can touch my, my thumb to my wrist, my elbows
hyperextend. So I'm, you know, I'd say I'm good at yoga, bad at
football, and I'm a pretty big guy, but, you know, about 6, 61
2, 15 or so. So I can put on muscle, but my joints break
(19:44):
down and this by doing this every day. My
injuries in the past year have, like I said, I'm. I'm pretty happy with
it. They have dramatically diminished. And, you
know, Chris has been working with me a little bit on like bench press and
other things like that. My shoulder sublu if I go too heavy. But I did,
you know, for the first time in my Life, and I'm 50. I did 225
(20:06):
for eight reps. Like, I've never even come close to that because my shoulders wouldn't
take it. So I've gotten really strong and I feel
like a lot more stable. And if you look at some of the data, it's
really interesting on what this is doing to collagen. So
they've, they've done pretty cool studies where they actually biopsied the tissues
that have been irradiated and they looked under the microscope and all this new collagen
(20:27):
production, and that's very obvious with skin. Right. This is used in a
lot in dermatology, but they're seeing this in deeper tissues as well.
So I think for patients that are a bit, you know, hyper ligamentous or
lax or prone to ligament tendon injuries, this
is a fantastic tool that in the short term, you know,
I look at the different. I got to have three groups of where we use
(20:50):
this. One is a patient that's injured that needs to heal. So we have
that one is, you know, the, the athlete that wants to
like truly improve like their performance. And then another is
wellness. Right. So that's why I love these devices at home because you use them.
Like I don't have any injury right now, but I don't want to get injured.
Right. So I'm continuously doing it and for me
(21:11):
it's at this point it's almost like an anti aging, you know, they don't,
people don't like that term. But a health, you know, say healthy aging tool to
keep me, you know, functional, relatively pain free. And I feel like
it's really supporting my tissues. Just like if you were to take a supplement
or if you're doing exercise or getting really good sleep, right. Or great
nutrition, this is part of the wellness. It becomes a wellness
(21:32):
habit once you're out of say like an acute issue.
And that's where the larger, the beds and those types of things, you can afford
it. It's pretty nice, right? Because then you don't have to keep moving that, that
device around. But the hard part is the
beds are really expensive. They're really big, right. You're going to need like a
220 outlet for, you know, the powerful ones.
(21:55):
And then so you have to find where you're going to put in your house,
in your garage. And then if you have it in a clinic or if you
haven't in a, you know, like for a medical clinic. For me, we don't
want our patients, not that I don't, we don't care about them, but we don't
want the patients coming in there every day or having to have to. Right.
So that's the challenge. Now if it's in a gym setting or training setting
where you have people coming in, say three, four or five times a week,
(22:18):
then a bed makes a lot of sense, right. Because they can
get that microdosing. If it's, if they're only coming in once a week or a
couple of times a month, then I don't feel like it's, it's the best
tool in that setting. So speaking of that
gym scenario.
What. About pre training versus post training? I think there's
(22:42):
value on both of those, isn't there? Yeah, you know, it's, the
data is a little bit challenging. You know, there is a
really good benefit of preconditioning, right. So if you use it for
preconditioning, if you're going to train or you're going to perform,
right. There can be a Dramatic improvement in your,
you know, time of Exercise limits your
(23:04):
VO2 max changes. There's a lot of physiologic changes that are
beneficial that can occur 20 to 30 minutes after getting
a full body, you know, dose or regional dose of,
of red and near infrared light therapy. Now those
benefits, Chris, that's the hard part. They kind of carry over also
to post exercise. So if you use it for like a training session,
(23:26):
you're going to have better, you know, results in recovery. You're not going to have
as much, you know, doms and all those things. Now you can get
both in the literature and then when I've used it, like I noticed a tremendous
difference and if anybody has, you know, the panels at home or in the gym
when I work out and if I work out really hard, my legs always get
sore. Like that's my, my quads are. But where I get the like worst
(23:49):
doms. So the late onset muscle soreness, two days after, like a
heavy leg day, I'm miserable and that's virtually
gone away. Now if I do the, the light therapy after that, after
the workout, 10 minutes stand in front of it, you know, quads
exposed and I turn around hamstrings and, and glutes and
two days later it might be 10% of what it used to be. And
(24:11):
I've gone back and forth. So I'll exercise and I won't do it and I'll
pay for it. It's really interesting. Now some of
those benefits, I haven't tested it, you know, that much myself because
usually I'll do it afterwards. But some of those
benefits have been shown in the literature to occur even if you do preconditioning.
So the, the potential is like if you have to choose and
(24:34):
you're a, you know, performance athlete, it kind of makes sense to do it
before. If you have the option of doing both, you're not going to hurt yourself.
Yeah, the preconditioning seems to make a lot of sense to me because you're also,
I see because of the elevation and the window of elevation, you're obviously going to
be at peak then post, but you're also amplifying the effects. It
makes a lot of sense to me. I haven't been able to experiment just based
(24:56):
on the timing of my it fitting in my lifestyle to be able to do
it in the pre period. So I don't, I just don't know at this point
personally, but that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, that's
exactly why I can't do it like I, because it's at home, I don't have
the, at the, at the gym and you know, just time, by
the time I get to the gym, I'm ready, I want to go work out.
(25:17):
It's hard to like say, okay, I'm going to take 20 minutes. And
now for professional athletes and you know, different settings,
I think it could, it could make a lot of lot more sense to do
that because you're getting the benefits during exercise, during the performance
and you're also getting those post exercise recovery
benefits. Anthony's got a question. My understanding is it
(25:39):
increases the flow of electrons. So that's going to help with
redux. If would it make
sense then to try to do it in the earlier part of the day
because of the circadian effects of higher levels of nad?
And have you looked into using bicarbonate with it
to maintain more neutral
(26:02):
ph for the mitochondria
to improve the effects of the red light? I have not
looked at the bicarbonate but definitely there are
changes. There's some really interesting studies on circadian rhythm
effects and what they showed is there's certain
mitochondria and in certain cells that will be more active
(26:24):
in the, in the morning and so that's why do
you mind, you know, looking at some of the theory? I do
twice a day and it's, it's four different effects. So
in the morning it's more of a energy boost. Right. So when
you, you're activating so those four, those photons
hit that cytochrome C oxidase, they disassociate nitric oxide,
(26:47):
you get improved vasodilation, blood flow, oxygen
binds to that and whatever you can do to, for that oxidative phosphorylation,
that electron transport chain you're going to produce instead of when nitric
oxide is bound to that cytochrome C oxidase, you produce about 2
ATP per cycle. When you have oxygen bound, it produces
32, you get a 16 fold increase in
(27:09):
efficiencies. The certain mitochondria in the body with
the circadian rhythm are going to be activated in, you know, if you have a
normal sleep pattern between say 11 and 8am and 11am
and so in the morning you're going to get a huge boost of energy. It's
like having a, you know, full body like coffee, caffeine
energy boost gets you through the, the day. In the evening.
(27:30):
There's a lot of other pathways and they're still elucidating them, but there's a lot
of Other pathways that start to be activated, especially optical
pathways. And what we're seeing is some of the
parasympathetic benefits. What I notice if anybody
uses, and this has been shown in the data and also
I've tested it myself and it's very obvious in my case
(27:52):
and I've talked to other patients and other folks is looking
at your sleep patterns. So if you do it a couple hours before
bedtime and if you don't do it, I notice a really big difference in
the amount of REM sleep that I get. The deep sleep, I have
OURA ring, so that's what I'm tracking. And then heart rate variability.
All are measures of high quality sleep and they are dramatically
(28:14):
different if I use it in the evening. So I like that kind of
bimodal therapy. And so I try to get. It's hard for me to sit
still. I'm not a person that just likes to hang out and sit
around. So if I can get 10 minutes a.m. and 10 minutes p.m.
that's a fantastic dose for me. Getting it in the eyes. There's
(28:34):
a lot of discussion of we have eye protection and those types of things.
There are optical pathways and I feel like especially around
the circadian rhythms, both morning and evening that are really important. They
did a recent study in the University of Pittsburgh Medical
center looking at red light, near infrared light, whole body
radiation. And there was a five fold decrease in blood clots after
(28:56):
surgeries. It's a huge difference. And these were
animal models and what they noticed afterwards, they didn't realize that was
happening afterwards. They looked at it. And the blind
mice or the blind rats, they did not see the benefits of the,
the reduction in blood clot risk. And so they don't understand
exactly what's happening. But there's obviously in that setting
(29:19):
there's a significant optical pathway that's being,
you know, encountered. So it's something to think about. So when we talk about
using eyewear like protection, I would just close your eyes. This is an
extremely safe device. You know, it's not a laser. It's not going to,
you know, cause burns, especially with the time
limits that we were talking about. Don't look directly at the diodes, but if you
(29:43):
close your eyes and, and get that red and near infrared light, you're
going to get some central nervous system benefits.
So yeah, I think remember reading about the Jeffrey Institute
doing some research with red light shined into the eye.
I think it was a low wavelength, like
680 to 720 and improvements in dry
(30:06):
eye and differentiation of color.
Yeah. And it's positively affecting the rods and the cones. They're very energy
dependent, ATP dependent and so
they're, you know, probably this. The first indication that's covered by insurance was
oral ulcers in chemotherapy patients in children.
(30:26):
So it's called oral mucositis. So now that's the gold standard of treatment. It looks
like a lollipop or a,
what's it called? I forget losing the name right now, but it's
kind of like a lollipop or popsicle and it's a red light
popsicle with near infrared. And for little kids,
they can suck on that and it helps with oral ulcers and healing post chemotherapy
(30:48):
radiation therapy. The second indication that's going to be covered by insurance
is for children in myopia. And so that device is
like stage four testing right now. So it's definitely helpful
for the eyes. But those are very controlled wavelengths and very controlled
doses and they're, they're very short time periods
and more powerful lights that are very focused. But with this you're going to see
(31:11):
those benefits as well. So in the comments
section here, one of our members who has a red vibe panel by the
way, says he has myopia and it does work.
So right here on this call.
I've. Got some commentary on the ramping up in the energy
as well as the sleep. So I follow the same protocol as
(31:34):
yourself morning and evening
and I also have more recently employed a
PEMF mat at the same time. And in the
morning I do that at a high frequency energy frequency and then
in the evening low to ramp down. But
I have gone like I just. One week I've been taking massive amounts of
(31:57):
caffeine due to the high stress in my life and to get through my days
and I just stopped having anything other than my cup of coffee in the morning.
I was having energy drinks all day long like, and I was
like, I feel great with this. And then here's my
sleep. This is my HRV value by year. And you can
see this downward trend with the stress level of my business.
(32:20):
And then all of a sudden this year it spikes to the highest it's ever
been. Immediately when I haven't completely remediated, you know,
the issues in my life. You can also see that on
my resting heart rate. You send this
lowest it's ever been. We can also see it on my,
(32:40):
my breathing respiration rate, lowest
it's ever been. Those are by years. That's not like.
And so obviously I'm showing the Short term with this year being the first, you
know, just the first quarter, the first few months. But that's when I've employed
these changes. So. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
It's amazing. I'd love to see what your protocol is for the
(33:03):
pemf. I've not. I've not been in. We have it. I just
haven't been using it. So that would be cool to add that into
the mix. Yeah, we've got a line of a few things that
we've been testing and making some changes to that for a
wellness. A wellness line of products to complement the red light and other
stuff that we're in. Peptides that we're doing. So me and my
(33:26):
wife are working on that. Anthony, did you have any other ones
read about? Actually it was discussed at one of the
grand rounds meetings with Dr. Seeds. The application of red
light for tinnitus and pairing it with the human and peptide
because it crosses the blood brain barrier. Have you done any
research with using red light for tinnitus?
(33:49):
No, not. Not really seeing too much
in our practice. You know, mostly musculoskeletal,
joint and spine issues. So really haven't done much with tinnitus.
Worked with some docs like with TMJ and that's
been really effective. But that's a combination with
(34:10):
like regenerative medicine injection. So that's probably the closest
to tinnitus or the earth that we've gotten.
Okay, Ben, I see your hand raised, but haven't had a chance to give
Derek or John a chance to ask any questions yet. So I'm going to do
that first. Derek, do you have any questions?
We'll move on. John. John, do you got any. I do have a question. Okay,
(34:32):
perfect. I was actually walking around my house listening. My bad. So I. I
will say for other people that. That didn't hear it. I have my Opia. It
does work for it. I don't use this strong of a light. I guess my
question is exactly what, what level of like red light and green light should
I use? Because the vision therapist I went to gave me like a makeshift light
and I just stare straight into it, eyes open. But
obviously the, the panel I have is much stronger.
(34:55):
So I was just curious as to what amount of time you
would spend with your eyes closed, pretty much looking at the panels. Is it also
have a green light panel too? Is it the. The six, the 600 panel
that you. That you have, Derek? Well, not to look back,
I went with a different company local and I actually picked it Up.
But yeah, it does. It's.
(35:18):
It's a mito red light, has like 218 lights and it has like 11 different
settings, but it does red light from like
600 to like, high. I haven't even looked at it. I just turned the thing
on and use it. You know, I'm 30
and I'm probably younger than most people with this, but I can say it helps
with wrinkles. It helps with, like, if, you know, I was an
(35:40):
alcoholic, it. I don't look like one anymore. You know,
so I'm all about the red light for the body, but also my
vision because I was seeing a vision therapist for it.
Yeah. What, what, what, what measurement to sit in front of my
bed? Yeah, it really depends. I mean, the, they're very detailed
studies for myopia. So they are very specific to
(36:02):
the, you know, the dose that you're getting.
Depending on like the. It's very sensitive to the distance that you're
from the device than the device itself because there's a big range
of, like, energy, how much irradiance
that light source is giving. Because you can get a, you know,
an LED from, from Amazon that you
(36:25):
could sit in front of it for two hours and it's not going to give
any dose. Right. It's the same wavelength. It's just like we talked about
with, you know, it's like taking a 1mg Advil that
you can take, then you're not going to get any benefit from it. It's the
same medicine, it's the same wavelength, the same color, but there's no
energy. So it really depends on, on how much you're. You're getting.
(36:45):
When you look at treatments for myopia, if you were using, you know,
the, the red vibe device for that, and it's not specifically, you know, built for
that, but if you're using it for that, you would need under like two
minutes in front of it because the dose is so significant.
Right. So it's not a device that's built specifically for myopia. It
can help that with that. But when you're looking at the dosing
(37:08):
and affecting like tendons and ligaments and muscles and tissues,
you want a much more powerful device or
light and more dosing into the tissue. So a longer period of time in
front of it. For skin, like somebody, you know, these masks that they
have, the red light masks and some of them had near infrared,
they have green, they have, you know, yellow or blue lights in those.
(37:31):
Those are very low power. And. But for the Skin,
Right. The light can, can get to it very easily. They're not to
penetrate a lot of tissue. So you can get benefits with wrinkles and other things
with, with those pants, the face masks. But oftentimes you're looking
at 30, 40 minutes of dosing time where if you get in
front of, you know, the red vive panels, again, three
(37:53):
to five minutes in front of that, you're going to get a really healthy dose
for skin, for hair. Okay.
She made like. Sorry, sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no, go. I've just
noticed the same thing with, you know, I'm 50 years old and I.
A couple of years ago I was noticing I just started to have some a
spots, you know, probably from like sun exposure and other things. And
(38:15):
I almost never. This is pretty cool. I
almost never put it on my face. I don't. I might have done it like
one or two times. I just don't do that. It's always like I have low
back issues. I have L5S1 arthritis, disc
herniation, 4 or 5. I have a little bit of listhesis there. So I have
some low back issues. And that's where I focus most of the energy. And that
(38:35):
pain has gone away. But I noticed in my face, my skin looks better.
Like I can't even find that 8 spot anymore. This is like something
that, over the course of a year that went away. And so there's the
systemic response, like it's rejuvenating the system,
which is totally fascinating. Right.
So to recap, you'll say with. With your device or a similar
(38:57):
device on like, say 25 to 50% brightness. 2 to
2 ish minutes. Yeah, 2 to 3 minutes. You shouldn't need too
much more, you know, R. When we look at ours, when you're three inches,
you know, away, we're well above 100 milliwatts per centimeter
squared energy. So that's kind of a gauge,
you know, at 6 inches away, we're around 80 to
(39:20):
100 milliwatts per centimeter squared. So still a very powerful device. And then
as you start to get farther away, it dramatically diminishes. It really depends on how
close you are to it. But if you're close to the panel
with myopia eye issues, you don't need a lot of dose. So
it's not a. It's not a long exposure. And even for skin,
it's not a long exposure. Three to five minutes should be plenty.
(39:43):
Well, how I do it is about four minutes on my face, and then I'll
Stand up and get my, my thigh because that's my injured area. And then I'll
finish my session and I'll do that twice a day. Because my, my
assumption was the face skin is thinner, it doesn't need as much.
Yeah, yeah, Erp. And that's what led to this. It works very
well together. Yeah, yeah, we do. PRP stem cells, regenerative
(40:05):
medicine. It's a beautiful combination even before.
Right. So you activate the stem cells. They did a very interesting study
where they took peripheral blood. They counted the, you know, we
can count stem cells in the blood by antigens markers on the
cells cell surface. They're called CD34. So they're CD34
positive cells. And then they looked at macrophages, which are a type of white
(40:28):
blood cell that could be, you know, promote healing. And they
irradiated just the lower leg, the tibia, for 15 minutes.
And then two hours afterwards they drew blood again. And within
two hours on average there was about a 300 increase in circulating stem
cells. And that lasted anywhere from a day to four days. So what
we like to do is if somebody's getting a PRP or cell therapy injection,
(40:52):
we want to kind of dose them before have that
massive increase. So then when we're taking blood and spinning it down, we're
getting more stem that product and then also
you want to do it afterwards because then you're continuously kind of reinforcing
that, that healing. So that's just one of the ways that the
red mite works. We talked about mitochondrial activation, we talked about stem
(41:14):
cells. And the last thing we really haven't talked about is pain reduction, inflammation.
It works on the capsaicin receptors in the nerve cells.
And it, so that's, if you get in front of a red light panel and
you feel better right away, it's because of that. So it's not
magic, it's not fixing things, it's reducing maybe some
blood flow effects that is kind of removing some inflammatory mediators in the area.
(41:36):
But one of the powerful effects that it has is it's down regulating
and modulating the capsaicin receptor, the pain receptor in the nerves.
So it feels good. So it actually acts as an analgesic. And so
that's why patients, if you get 5, 10 minutes in front of it and you're
like, dang, my pain went away. A big part of it is that the cool
thing is though you keep doing that, those capsaicin receptors start
(41:57):
to change their morphology. There's more calcium in the cells and they start
to Change over time, they start to heal. And so chronic neuropathic pain
can actually get better. So it actually modulates how those nerves behave.
And patients that have chronic pain, they're oftentimes their nerves are
chronically inflamed. So it's called neural inflammation. And so you're actually,
by doing that, you're changing that process. So over the course of weeks to
(42:20):
months, they will, that pain will be reduced and it will stay reduced.
And the nerves can actually improve their function. They can remyelinate.
Chronic painful neuropathies can improve. So it's really fascinating. But
that's where the beauty of the microdosing and continuous exposure
is really important. Some absolute gold
in everything that you went through there. And man, I appreciate
(42:43):
you taking the time with all of us today. It's just really gracious of you.
I'm hoping to make some time for just two more questions. Cause we didn't get
to John and Ben. Ben's had his hand raised for a little bit. So Tex,
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start with a firm foundation. That's why I only
wear barefoot shoes. Their wide toe box, zero
(43:04):
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That's B E A R foot
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(43:27):
how you move today with barefoot shoes. Ben,
your question? Yeah, I was, I was curious. You said
you worked at the spine clinic, right?
Or in on spinal issues as well.
And years ago I was prone and landed on my
forehead and had numbness in my arms for
(43:50):
about a week. And every now and then I'll get a little bit of numbness
in my right hand still. And I was, I was. Guess I was kind of
curious with
that type of injury because I can't imagine that it's something other
than a spinal injury. Right. Somewhere.
(44:11):
Have you, have you seen effects with that? And would
you treat the spine with that or
more of the. The hand where I actually get the
numbness? Yeah. So that would be again,
that is, you know, our wheelhouse. And so the proper
diagnosis is what you need an evaluation by a
(44:33):
spine specialist. We'd evaluate your
neck. Obviously if that injury caused that disturbance in the
limb, then my at least thought is let's rule out something
structural discogenic. Is there some nerve compromised, nerve
root injury? Was there a traction injury on the Brachial
plexus and then evaluate that limb. And there's specific
(44:57):
tests that we do, both physical examination,
you know, imaging, sometimes emg, nerve conduction studies to
assess kind of, you know, what's happening with the nerve. And then absolutely like
that. What we see, the combination of
regenerative therapies. Again, we have the. I have a three legged stool
of regenerative medicine. Like you have to have the three legs. So the stool works,
(45:19):
is proper diagnosis, you know, precision diagnosis, precision
biologics, what you're using in the precision delivery. So if, when we have
our injury determined, then you want to put the medicine in that
area. So is it a disc? Is it just the nerve? You know, is
it a facet joint? Right, we have facet joints. Could they be inflamed and irritated?
Was it more like a traction or, you know, compression injury of the nerve?
(45:41):
So we want to assess all those things and then this. Now we
heard today how the red light, near infrared is going to help all of
those things. Now if you can get, if you can get the benefit
by just doing the non invasive, like put the light on and it goes away.
Hallelujah. Right? That's fantastic. That's the best. We don't have to do anything, but if
it doesn't, then let's dive a little bit deeper and then,
(46:03):
you know, look structurally what's going on. Okay. And that's why the
radiology, as a radiologist, I'm super biased. So take everything I say
with the grant. I like to see what's happening. Like I want to see, what's
the mri, what's the ultrasound? You know what, what, why are we having this issue?
And then let's go after it and fix it. And then why I'm an
evangelist for regenerative medicine is I've taken probably
(46:24):
5,000 before and after MRIs showing that it heals.
So it's not just that. The patient tells me like, hey, this was amazing. It
feels good. I'm like, I'm a doubter, right? I'm like, I'm
skeptic. Why are you telling me that? Like, my first cases, I scanned it
again and I'm like, holy crap, it looks brand new. Like it's not supposed to
happen. Right? And that's what got me to regenerative medicine. So
(46:45):
that's what we see with all these structures. So if you can identify it, that's
the first step. I do appreciate
that you are always trying to
disprove your theory, if you will. Doing those
before and after.
Awesome. Well, this has been really great experience. I want
(47:06):
to thank everybody for joining and especially
Rahul. Thanks for taking the time out of your weekend to
answer the questions from the group. Really, really appreciate it, man.
Great questions. So intelligent. What an intelligent group. It's super cool
and I learned a lot as well. So I'm looking forward to the
PEMF data and I'm gonna kind of bug you on that, but. All right.
(47:29):
Wonderful weekend. All right, Chris, I'm going to show. You what we're doing
today. Okay.
Oh, nice. So I'm at
a strongman competition. I'm just helping out. You know how we are
with whoever the competitors are. We just help out with
(47:50):
whatever's going on. It's only a small event. It's cold as hell
out here. Yeah, it looks like fun, though. Yeah,
we're doing a mammoth bar, so we're expecting way over.
I'm gonna bet over a 700 pound dead though, today. All right.
Probably over 800. Sadly, I'm not part of it, but I'll do.
(48:10):
I'll be doing 700. Probably about three months, or at least
that's the aim. All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna follow up on that. Yeah, you keep, keep kicking
me in the ass, telling me to get there. All right, will do.
Thanks, Chris. Have a good one.
Welcome to the Architect of Resilience podcast where
we explore the secrets of overcoming life's challenges and
unlocking unstoppable strength through deep personal
conversations and expert insights. I wanted to give
you a heads up that this episode of the Architect of
Resilience podcast is going to be a little different. The reason for that
(00:21):
is it wasn't originally intended to be a public
video. So I have the private community which
most anyone can join. It's a free that is on
the link is on the education and Community. There should be a comment,
a link here down in the notes or on the website
chrisduffin.com if you go there. And go to Education Community,
(00:45):
you'll be. Able to get access to our member forum.
We have about 2,000 members and
and the paying portion of those members. So again the forum is absolutely
free, but the paying portion we have regular live calls
that are just for those members. And Dr.
Rahul Desai, who has been on prior podcast with us,
(01:08):
joined for one of those sessions and I really felt that this one
should be open to the public. So we recorded this a couple months.
Ago and I've been sitting on it. Because, well, the quality of the recording
from a video aspect isn't normally up to par and you're also going to see
some other people interacting, asking questions besides myself.
So I just wanted to share the format of this video
(01:31):
and why it's a little bit different. But I think that you'll get some
tremendous value out of this piece which. Is why I wanted to share
it. So just a little heads up on. Why the look and feel
is a. Little bit different than the remainders. Hi everybody, I'm Rahul
Desai. I've been working as
a regenerative
(01:53):
musculoskeletal like joint and spine
radiologist and regenerative doctor for
approximately from 2008,
so 17 years or so and
really focused on using
platelets, autologous substances so
(02:15):
patients own bone marrow and fat. That's my primary
tools for regeneration. And then using my diagnostic
skills as a radiologist to figure out what's going on with somebody, obviously
seeing them in the office and clinic and then
placing those materials with image guidance into structures
that could potentially benefit from that. So any ligaments, tendons,
(02:38):
joints, bone, cartilage, discs in the spine and
know, lo and behold, it actually helps those tissues heal. So in the right
setting we don't need surgeries, we don't need other interventions. Sometimes it
augments surgeries that if somebody needs a surgery it'll help it heal
better. And then in that time have
(02:58):
delved into other areas of regenerative medicine. So,
you know, obviously the healthier the body is, the better the body heals.
And we're, you know, we want our patients to do really well. So
we've been, I've been very interested in all different sorts
of, you know, medicines. We had a functional medicine doc
for a long time. We had trainers, you know, mind body
(03:21):
health. We use a lot of energy based medicine nowadays.
You know, have been using shockwave for a long time and then, you know,
basically got my master's degree in, in the last year, year and a half
in red light therapy. It's a
proverbial master's degree, but really took a deep dive.
Worked on starting a company, it's called Red Vibe Health. And
(03:43):
you know, really exciting with kind of mitochondrial health and activation
and leveraging that to heal. So that's kind of my background
and you know, became friends with Chris in the last
year or so and you know, excited to,
to meet y' all and hopefully, hopefully it can be a resource to you and
you can answer questions and talk about stuff and I'm here to learn as well.
(04:07):
Yeah, I'll start with my question. So on the
podcast we did, you talked about the length
of time and overdoing it can
ramp things up, maybe too much. But you
were suggesting 10 minute, 12 minute sessions,
maybe twice a day at the max.
(04:30):
What are the implications of doing more than
that? Yeah, when you think of,
and you're speaking of photobiomodulation, so that's the
fancy term for red and near infrared light
therapy. So by shining this light onto
tissue, onto the body, you modulate cell
(04:51):
activity. And I want, like, when you think about it, think
about it in, in a couple of different ways. One way is,
you know, if you have an injury or you have tissue that's inflamed,
irritated, broken down, and you want that to, and, or painful and
you want that tissue to heal, then you're going to directly
shine that light or that photonic energy. Right. There's photons coming from the red
(05:15):
and near infrared onto that tissue to stimulate it to heal.
The other way to think about it is that when you shine the light,
the term irradiation is putting light on tissue or energy into
tissue. It's not radiating it or damaging it, but
irradiation of the tissue with that light stimulates systemic
responses too. You get stem cell activation, you
(05:37):
get increased energy in the system, in your whole body.
That's another way to think about it. When you're doing that, can you do
too much to one area or can you do too much to the system
potentially. And so there is, there's a curve, a bell
shaped curve called orange tools curve. And so too little is not going to do
much. You know, there is a, you know, the big part of the curve
(06:01):
or the, the hump of the curve where you're going to get most of the
benefits. And then if you do too much, those benefits are going to start to
diminish. The good news with photobiomodulation is it's very
safe, especially with the devices that we have or the
devices that you can have at home, these Class 2 devices.
There's a really big safety margin. So it's kind of
(06:22):
hard to hurt someone. What would
that bad outcome be really? You start to get thermal
effects so you get to get too much heating. So if you put it on
one area for too long, so say it's really close, you're depositing a high
amount of energy or jewels into the tissue and you keep it
there for 30, 40 minutes, an hour, two hours, it can definitely cause heating
(06:44):
of the tissue. And you're going to get some, maybe even local tissue damage.
It's going to be mild, but you could get some thermal injury or burns.
Okay. The same thing can happen with say a laser. The laser
has the same wavelengths. So if you think of these, the red and near
infrared as the medicine, right. So if we look at
say a simple medicine like an Advil, right. So the, the
(07:06):
wavelength is the medicine. So there's different medicines. You have, you know,
6106-506806-70858, 10.
Those are different things that are going to affect the, those tissues.
And the dose is like say you take an advil and it's
200 milligrams or 1 milligram or 500 or 600 milligrams,
that's the amount of energy, that's the dose. So that's going to be a
(07:30):
measure of like the irradiance, how powerful the light is and then how long you
put it over the tissue. Okay. And how close that is, that's what the
dose will get. So you have to be careful. So one is the
wavelength and that's the medicine and then the
dosing has those other parameters. Does that
make sense? So you want to get the right dose. But the good news is
(07:52):
there's a significant margin. So anywhere, five, 10
minutes with say a device that has a good amount of energy and I can
speak to our devices and those that are similar. If
you get that type of panel with a powerful LED that you're going to get
enough dose, like for skin and superficial tissues
within five minutes. If you're affecting deeper tissues like tendons, ligaments,
(08:15):
muscle, like that kind of system where you want a systemic effect, then you're looking
at anywhere to up to 20 minutes. And then you can change the area
so you can have the, if you do, say, 20 minutes on your abdomen
and you want to do your back, that's not a, you're getting a cumulative
dose, but it's not going to be dangerous to your back. Right. So you wouldn't
want to do, say 40 minutes just on your abdomen. So you could do 10,
(08:36):
15 minutes, 20 minutes on your abdomen, turn around, you know, treat your back
or treat your legs, depending on how big the device is. You know, now we
even, we've sourced some beds so you, you know, you have a
full body dose there, you're going to be more limited because you're
getting everywhere. Right. So then you want it 15 minutes and then you're, you're done
for the day. So Katie was asking,
(08:58):
does the amount of melanin make a difference?
Not a huge difference. They have tested different, like
skin, skin colors in the
dosing, and there's not a huge variance between,
you know, white skin types and, you know,
dark. My skin darker. There's not a lot of variance
(09:21):
into that tissue. So you can still stay within that,
that zone. Would you
mind flipping your phone again in case I use any recordings? You're all
sideways. That way we don't have to edit it. Yeah.
All right. Other questions from anyone else? Yeah, Ben,
go ahead. Well, I have all the
(09:44):
questions, so.
But yeah, so you're, you're talking about the,
the 15 minutes on your, your, your beds,
right. Or larger panels. Right. And you're talking about moving the
smaller panels around
(10:05):
if you were trying to affect deeper
tissues. Right. Is there a,
a max benefit, if you will,
for different parts of your body? Right. So like, if you were
to, if you had one of your smaller panels, for example,
right. 20 minutes on my
(10:28):
shoulders and 20 minutes on my legs. 20 minutes here
and 20 minutes there. Right. Like, at what point is, is there a
cumulative limit there,
if you will, or is it,
is there some, is there a max
that the system can take is really what I'm asking. No, you're going to,
(10:51):
if you like, with a smaller panel, small, light, and you're moving it into different
tissue, you're going to activate that tissue differently there
you will get systemic benefits. Right? But you're not going to put
yourself in harm's way by moving, moving it around. And it's just
time. It takes a, you know, you're, you're spending a lot of time,
but that's not going to be dangerous to the system. If anything, you're
(11:13):
going to get a, a larger systemic response. So when
you're putting it on a, or a, a, you know, a limb,
then the fat tissue in that area and the
bone in that area, the stem cells, the cells that are,
you know, they're called per sites in the fat, and there's
mesenchymal stem cells in the bone marrow. Those are going to get activated
(11:34):
and then they're going to get deposited, they're going to get into the bloodstream.
Okay, so when we talk about like stem cell activation, what happens is they
kind of wake, they're dormant and they're waiting for signals.
This is a signal and the way that it gets activated. So imagine they're like
the firefighters in the fire department, right? They're hanging out in their,
you know, chilling and relaxing. And then the alarm goes off
(11:57):
and they have to get into the fire engine and go, right. And so that's
the bloodstream. So when they, they come out, they crawl out.
It's pretty neat. If you watch YouTube, there's some really cool
micrographic videos that show these cells crawl
into the, the blood vessels and then they flow and then they're in
the, they're in the bloodstream and wherever there's injury
(12:19):
or dysfunction, they exit.
So that's the nice thing. So when you get. So we talk about the systemic
response. So even after you do the light therapy, within
15, 20 minutes, and then it peaks at about two or three
hours, you have this release of stem cells. So you hear people
getting, for wellness or injuries, they get IV stem cells
(12:43):
in this country, there's a lot of concern about that.
It's considered by some illegal, I wouldn't want to go into
that. But the theory of it is that, hey, you get this systemic dose of
stem cells and they can cross your blood brain barrier, they can go to injuries
that you don't even know are happening. So that's what's happening. So when you're moving
that device around, you're kind of adding to that benefit,
(13:05):
but you're also treating the local tissues to get that, those cells
to heal, to get that the mitochondria in those regions, the cells
like all the nuclear transcription factors that, that start to develop. The proteins that
are created when you shine the light on a local tissue, you get that local
benefit. I hope that makes sense. So
I was going to just say. Elaborate on that just a little bit. Just like
(13:27):
from the BFR world, like the prescription protocols for your
shoulder is to do the BFR cuffs on your legs
because it's that systemic release is going to cause those same growth
factors to go throughout the body and then be able to hit. So yeah, you're,
you're targeting local tissue, but you also have the systemic effect where you can't actually
isolate the shoulder. But we're going to create that so that
(13:50):
those stem cells and growth factors are running through the body.
So just to clarify, right,
it sounds like moving the panel around
is certainly not a problem. Right.
But I would want to stay, if I had
(14:11):
an isolated injury or soreness or whatever, I would want to stay
on that for something like 20 minutes. 10 to 20 minutes, is
that? Yeah, 15 to 20 minutes. And you can test that again.
It depends. How close are you to the device? Right. There's a
inverse square loss. So the farther you get away, you're losing,
(14:31):
you know, a square of that energy.
So you want to be closer to the device. So that changes the amount of
energy that's deposited into the tissue. But somewhere, you know, 15,
20 minutes in a localized area, say a knee, shoulder,
you know, ligament, tendon region, you're going to get a nice
amount of energy deposited into that tissue. And then the other benefits that
(14:53):
we're seeing long term are, you know, consider it kind of like
micro dosing. So getting a huge dose at one time
is not going to be as good as getting numerous doses
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off their first blood work with code resilience@merrick
health.com that's code resilience for
10% off. Hey Brian, I'm really interested in
any questions that you might have given the population
that you work with being, you know, a little bit different maybe than
the population that you know a lot Of, Yeah.
(16:00):
Clients of people on the call here. Well, I had, I had
a question first regarding localization
of the therapy is do you have
protocols for like a knee or a shoulder joint, something
in terms of the angle, does the angle and the
location of the panel actually affect
(16:24):
the radiant to the specific, you know.
You know, if I tear a rotator cuff, right. Do I have to have
the panel in a certain position to optimize local,
local therapy on, on the injured tissue?
And it sounds like it's almost
(16:47):
more beneficial to just do a, you know, like a bed, a full
body, you know, like, like you were talking about the
micro dosing because it, because it affects stem cells
throughout the body. So. Yeah, that was, that was the question
I had. Yeah, the,
the not so much, you know, angle, it's how close it is to
(17:10):
the, the tissue. Okay. And if you think about like the rotator cuff
is a three dimensional structure from front to back, you
know, and it kind of wraps around the humeral head. So depending.
And the, you know, a tear or injury can be anywhere along there. So depending
on where you have the injury. Theoretically, yes. The closer you have it to that
tissue, the better effect it's going to have.
(17:33):
But that's sometimes hard unless, you know, like, if I, if I, you know, was
doing an ultrasound and knew exactly where the, the injury was, then we can place
the device closer to that. But in general, when you're doing, you know,
a knee or a shoulder, and if you get a, you know,
dose in the front and the side, in the back, if you want to, if
you even want to do that, you can move it around and
(17:54):
circumferentially. Same with the knee. Right. So if somebody has knee
arthritis, really, what compartment is it affecting? You know,
usually it'll, it'll affect maybe one area more than the other. So if somebody
has a medial meniscal tear or the pain on the inside of their knee or
some arthritis there, then maybe you want to get more dose, you know,
on the inside. If they have patellofemoral, you know, so underneath
(18:16):
the kneecap, if there's arthritis there, if they have pain going downstairs, those
types of things, or has, you know, crepitus behind the knee, then more of
a frontal approach, maybe you spend more time in that position.
Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Thank you.
I'm sorry. Yeah, you can move it around. So even if you were saying like,
(18:36):
hey, I'm going to do, you're 20 minutes to a certain area
or a knee, right. Then you could spend maybe five or 10 minutes in different
positions. And you can move it around. You can move it around a little bit
or move your knee. Now as far as the, the
beds they are going or a larger panel. The benefit of that is you're
getting more dose systemically. Right. So
(18:58):
definitely I like, like the one I have, you know, we have multiple
at home. The one I use, I use mine twice a day.
So I do about seven to 10 minutes twice a day. Current knock on wood.
Currently I'm not, I'm not having any specific injuries. And I think, you know,
because I've been doing this for, you know, a year now straight,
I think my injuries have dramatically diminished. Okay. So I have a
(19:22):
hyper ligamentous. I don't know if you've heard of EDS or Ehlers Danlos.
Ehlers Danlos syndrome. So if you look at my thumb, I can bend it back
this way. I can touch my, my thumb to my wrist, my elbows
hyperextend. So I'm, you know, I'd say I'm good at yoga, bad at
football, and I'm a pretty big guy, but, you know, about 6, 61
2, 15 or so. So I can put on muscle, but my joints break
(19:44):
down and this by doing this every day. My
injuries in the past year have, like I said, I'm. I'm pretty happy with
it. They have dramatically diminished. And, you
know, Chris has been working with me a little bit on like bench press and
other things like that. My shoulder sublu if I go too heavy. But I did,
you know, for the first time in my Life, and I'm 50. I did 225
(20:06):
for eight reps. Like, I've never even come close to that because my shoulders wouldn't
take it. So I've gotten really strong and I feel
like a lot more stable. And if you look at some of the data, it's
really interesting on what this is doing to collagen. So
they've, they've done pretty cool studies where they actually biopsied the tissues
that have been irradiated and they looked under the microscope and all this new collagen
(20:27):
production, and that's very obvious with skin. Right. This is used in a
lot in dermatology, but they're seeing this in deeper tissues as well.
So I think for patients that are a bit, you know, hyper ligamentous or
lax or prone to ligament tendon injuries, this
is a fantastic tool that in the short term, you know,
I look at the different. I got to have three groups of where we use
(20:50):
this. One is a patient that's injured that needs to heal. So we have
that one is, you know, the, the athlete that wants to
like truly improve like their performance. And then another is
wellness. Right. So that's why I love these devices at home because you use them.
Like I don't have any injury right now, but I don't want to get injured.
Right. So I'm continuously doing it and for me
(21:11):
it's at this point it's almost like an anti aging, you know, they don't,
people don't like that term. But a health, you know, say healthy aging tool to
keep me, you know, functional, relatively pain free. And I feel like
it's really supporting my tissues. Just like if you were to take a supplement
or if you're doing exercise or getting really good sleep, right. Or great
nutrition, this is part of the wellness. It becomes a wellness
(21:32):
habit once you're out of say like an acute issue.
And that's where the larger, the beds and those types of things, you can afford
it. It's pretty nice, right? Because then you don't have to keep moving that, that
device around. But the hard part is the
beds are really expensive. They're really big, right. You're going to need like a
220 outlet for, you know, the powerful ones.
(21:55):
And then so you have to find where you're going to put in your house,
in your garage. And then if you have it in a clinic or if you
haven't in a, you know, like for a medical clinic. For me, we don't
want our patients, not that I don't, we don't care about them, but we don't
want the patients coming in there every day or having to have to. Right.
So that's the challenge. Now if it's in a gym setting or training setting
where you have people coming in, say three, four or five times a week,
(22:18):
then a bed makes a lot of sense, right. Because they can
get that microdosing. If it's, if they're only coming in once a week or a
couple of times a month, then I don't feel like it's, it's the best
tool in that setting. So speaking of that
gym scenario.
What. About pre training versus post training? I think there's
(22:42):
value on both of those, isn't there? Yeah, you know, it's, the
data is a little bit challenging. You know, there is a
really good benefit of preconditioning, right. So if you use it for
preconditioning, if you're going to train or you're going to perform,
right. There can be a Dramatic improvement in your,
you know, time of Exercise limits your
(23:04):
VO2 max changes. There's a lot of physiologic changes that are
beneficial that can occur 20 to 30 minutes after getting
a full body, you know, dose or regional dose of,
of red and near infrared light therapy. Now those
benefits, Chris, that's the hard part. They kind of carry over also
to post exercise. So if you use it for like a training session,
(23:26):
you're going to have better, you know, results in recovery. You're not going to have
as much, you know, doms and all those things. Now you can get
both in the literature and then when I've used it, like I noticed a tremendous
difference and if anybody has, you know, the panels at home or in the gym
when I work out and if I work out really hard, my legs always get
sore. Like that's my, my quads are. But where I get the like worst
(23:49):
doms. So the late onset muscle soreness, two days after, like a
heavy leg day, I'm miserable and that's virtually
gone away. Now if I do the, the light therapy after that, after
the workout, 10 minutes stand in front of it, you know, quads
exposed and I turn around hamstrings and, and glutes and
two days later it might be 10% of what it used to be. And
(24:11):
I've gone back and forth. So I'll exercise and I won't do it and I'll
pay for it. It's really interesting. Now some of
those benefits, I haven't tested it, you know, that much myself because
usually I'll do it afterwards. But some of those
benefits have been shown in the literature to occur even if you do preconditioning.
So the, the potential is like if you have to choose and
(24:34):
you're a, you know, performance athlete, it kind of makes sense to do it
before. If you have the option of doing both, you're not going to hurt yourself.
Yeah, the preconditioning seems to make a lot of sense to me because you're also,
I see because of the elevation and the window of elevation, you're obviously going to
be at peak then post, but you're also amplifying the effects. It
makes a lot of sense to me. I haven't been able to experiment just based
(24:56):
on the timing of my it fitting in my lifestyle to be able to do
it in the pre period. So I don't, I just don't know at this point
personally, but that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, that's
exactly why I can't do it like I, because it's at home, I don't have
the, at the, at the gym and you know, just time, by
the time I get to the gym, I'm ready, I want to go work out.
(25:17):
It's hard to like say, okay, I'm going to take 20 minutes. And
now for professional athletes and you know, different settings,
I think it could, it could make a lot of lot more sense to do
that because you're getting the benefits during exercise, during the performance
and you're also getting those post exercise recovery
benefits. Anthony's got a question. My understanding is it
(25:39):
increases the flow of electrons. So that's going to help with
redux. If would it make
sense then to try to do it in the earlier part of the day
because of the circadian effects of higher levels of nad?
And have you looked into using bicarbonate with it
to maintain more neutral
(26:02):
ph for the mitochondria
to improve the effects of the red light? I have not
looked at the bicarbonate but definitely there are
changes. There's some really interesting studies on circadian rhythm
effects and what they showed is there's certain
mitochondria and in certain cells that will be more active
(26:24):
in the, in the morning and so that's why do
you mind, you know, looking at some of the theory? I do
twice a day and it's, it's four different effects. So
in the morning it's more of a energy boost. Right. So when
you, you're activating so those four, those photons
hit that cytochrome C oxidase, they disassociate nitric oxide,
(26:47):
you get improved vasodilation, blood flow, oxygen
binds to that and whatever you can do to, for that oxidative phosphorylation,
that electron transport chain you're going to produce instead of when nitric
oxide is bound to that cytochrome C oxidase, you produce about 2
ATP per cycle. When you have oxygen bound, it produces
32, you get a 16 fold increase in
(27:09):
efficiencies. The certain mitochondria in the body with
the circadian rhythm are going to be activated in, you know, if you have a
normal sleep pattern between say 11 and 8am and 11am
and so in the morning you're going to get a huge boost of energy. It's
like having a, you know, full body like coffee, caffeine
energy boost gets you through the, the day. In the evening.
(27:30):
There's a lot of other pathways and they're still elucidating them, but there's a lot
of Other pathways that start to be activated, especially optical
pathways. And what we're seeing is some of the
parasympathetic benefits. What I notice if anybody
uses, and this has been shown in the data and also
I've tested it myself and it's very obvious in my case
(27:52):
and I've talked to other patients and other folks is looking
at your sleep patterns. So if you do it a couple hours before
bedtime and if you don't do it, I notice a really big difference in
the amount of REM sleep that I get. The deep sleep, I have
OURA ring, so that's what I'm tracking. And then heart rate variability.
All are measures of high quality sleep and they are dramatically
(28:14):
different if I use it in the evening. So I like that kind of
bimodal therapy. And so I try to get. It's hard for me to sit
still. I'm not a person that just likes to hang out and sit
around. So if I can get 10 minutes a.m. and 10 minutes p.m.
that's a fantastic dose for me. Getting it in the eyes. There's
(28:34):
a lot of discussion of we have eye protection and those types of things.
There are optical pathways and I feel like especially around
the circadian rhythms, both morning and evening that are really important. They
did a recent study in the University of Pittsburgh Medical
center looking at red light, near infrared light, whole body
radiation. And there was a five fold decrease in blood clots after
(28:56):
surgeries. It's a huge difference. And these were
animal models and what they noticed afterwards, they didn't realize that was
happening afterwards. They looked at it. And the blind
mice or the blind rats, they did not see the benefits of the,
the reduction in blood clot risk. And so they don't understand
exactly what's happening. But there's obviously in that setting
(29:19):
there's a significant optical pathway that's being,
you know, encountered. So it's something to think about. So when we talk about
using eyewear like protection, I would just close your eyes. This is an
extremely safe device. You know, it's not a laser. It's not going to,
you know, cause burns, especially with the time
limits that we were talking about. Don't look directly at the diodes, but if you
(29:43):
close your eyes and, and get that red and near infrared light, you're
going to get some central nervous system benefits.
So yeah, I think remember reading about the Jeffrey Institute
doing some research with red light shined into the eye.
I think it was a low wavelength, like
680 to 720 and improvements in dry
(30:06):
eye and differentiation of color.
Yeah. And it's positively affecting the rods and the cones. They're very energy
dependent, ATP dependent and so
they're, you know, probably this. The first indication that's covered by insurance was
oral ulcers in chemotherapy patients in children.
(30:26):
So it's called oral mucositis. So now that's the gold standard of treatment. It looks
like a lollipop or a,
what's it called? I forget losing the name right now, but it's
kind of like a lollipop or popsicle and it's a red light
popsicle with near infrared. And for little kids,
they can suck on that and it helps with oral ulcers and healing post chemotherapy
(30:48):
radiation therapy. The second indication that's going to be covered by insurance
is for children in myopia. And so that device is
like stage four testing right now. So it's definitely helpful
for the eyes. But those are very controlled wavelengths and very controlled
doses and they're, they're very short time periods
and more powerful lights that are very focused. But with this you're going to see
(31:11):
those benefits as well. So in the comments
section here, one of our members who has a red vibe panel by the
way, says he has myopia and it does work.
So right here on this call.
I've. Got some commentary on the ramping up in the energy
as well as the sleep. So I follow the same protocol as
(31:34):
yourself morning and evening
and I also have more recently employed a
PEMF mat at the same time. And in the
morning I do that at a high frequency energy frequency and then
in the evening low to ramp down. But
I have gone like I just. One week I've been taking massive amounts of
(31:57):
caffeine due to the high stress in my life and to get through my days
and I just stopped having anything other than my cup of coffee in the morning.
I was having energy drinks all day long like, and I was
like, I feel great with this. And then here's my
sleep. This is my HRV value by year. And you can
see this downward trend with the stress level of my business.
(32:20):
And then all of a sudden this year it spikes to the highest it's ever
been. Immediately when I haven't completely remediated, you know,
the issues in my life. You can also see that on
my resting heart rate. You send this
lowest it's ever been. We can also see it on my,
(32:40):
my breathing respiration rate, lowest
it's ever been. Those are by years. That's not like.
And so obviously I'm showing the Short term with this year being the first, you
know, just the first quarter, the first few months. But that's when I've employed
these changes. So. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
It's amazing. I'd love to see what your protocol is for the
(33:03):
pemf. I've not. I've not been in. We have it. I just
haven't been using it. So that would be cool to add that into
the mix. Yeah, we've got a line of a few things that
we've been testing and making some changes to that for a
wellness. A wellness line of products to complement the red light and other
stuff that we're in. Peptides that we're doing. So me and my
(33:26):
wife are working on that. Anthony, did you have any other ones
read about? Actually it was discussed at one of the
grand rounds meetings with Dr. Seeds. The application of red
light for tinnitus and pairing it with the human and peptide
because it crosses the blood brain barrier. Have you done any
research with using red light for tinnitus?
(33:49):
No, not. Not really seeing too much
in our practice. You know, mostly musculoskeletal,
joint and spine issues. So really haven't done much with tinnitus.
Worked with some docs like with TMJ and that's
been really effective. But that's a combination with
(34:10):
like regenerative medicine injection. So that's probably the closest
to tinnitus or the earth that we've gotten.
Okay, Ben, I see your hand raised, but haven't had a chance to give
Derek or John a chance to ask any questions yet. So I'm going to do
that first. Derek, do you have any questions?
We'll move on. John. John, do you got any. I do have a question. Okay,
(34:32):
perfect. I was actually walking around my house listening. My bad. So I. I
will say for other people that. That didn't hear it. I have my Opia. It
does work for it. I don't use this strong of a light. I guess my
question is exactly what, what level of like red light and green light should
I use? Because the vision therapist I went to gave me like a makeshift light
and I just stare straight into it, eyes open. But
obviously the, the panel I have is much stronger.
(34:55):
So I was just curious as to what amount of time you
would spend with your eyes closed, pretty much looking at the panels. Is it also
have a green light panel too? Is it the. The six, the 600 panel
that you. That you have, Derek? Well, not to look back,
I went with a different company local and I actually picked it Up.
But yeah, it does. It's.
(35:18):
It's a mito red light, has like 218 lights and it has like 11 different
settings, but it does red light from like
600 to like, high. I haven't even looked at it. I just turned the thing
on and use it. You know, I'm 30
and I'm probably younger than most people with this, but I can say it helps
with wrinkles. It helps with, like, if, you know, I was an
(35:40):
alcoholic, it. I don't look like one anymore. You know,
so I'm all about the red light for the body, but also my
vision because I was seeing a vision therapist for it.
Yeah. What, what, what, what measurement to sit in front of my
bed? Yeah, it really depends. I mean, the, they're very detailed
studies for myopia. So they are very specific to
(36:02):
the, you know, the dose that you're getting.
Depending on like the. It's very sensitive to the distance that you're
from the device than the device itself because there's a big range
of, like, energy, how much irradiance
that light source is giving. Because you can get a, you know,
an LED from, from Amazon that you
(36:25):
could sit in front of it for two hours and it's not going to give
any dose. Right. It's the same wavelength. It's just like we talked about
with, you know, it's like taking a 1mg Advil that
you can take, then you're not going to get any benefit from it. It's the
same medicine, it's the same wavelength, the same color, but there's no
energy. So it really depends on, on how much you're. You're getting.
(36:45):
When you look at treatments for myopia, if you were using, you know,
the, the red vibe device for that, and it's not specifically, you know, built for
that, but if you're using it for that, you would need under like two
minutes in front of it because the dose is so significant.
Right. So it's not a device that's built specifically for myopia. It
can help that with that. But when you're looking at the dosing
(37:08):
and affecting like tendons and ligaments and muscles and tissues,
you want a much more powerful device or
light and more dosing into the tissue. So a longer period of time in
front of it. For skin, like somebody, you know, these masks that they
have, the red light masks and some of them had near infrared,
they have green, they have, you know, yellow or blue lights in those.
(37:31):
Those are very low power. And. But for the Skin,
Right. The light can, can get to it very easily. They're not to
penetrate a lot of tissue. So you can get benefits with wrinkles and other things
with, with those pants, the face masks. But oftentimes you're looking
at 30, 40 minutes of dosing time where if you get in
front of, you know, the red vive panels, again, three
(37:53):
to five minutes in front of that, you're going to get a really healthy dose
for skin, for hair. Okay.
She made like. Sorry, sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no, go. I've just
noticed the same thing with, you know, I'm 50 years old and I.
A couple of years ago I was noticing I just started to have some a
spots, you know, probably from like sun exposure and other things. And
(38:15):
I almost never. This is pretty cool. I
almost never put it on my face. I don't. I might have done it like
one or two times. I just don't do that. It's always like I have low
back issues. I have L5S1 arthritis, disc
herniation, 4 or 5. I have a little bit of listhesis there. So I have
some low back issues. And that's where I focus most of the energy. And that
(38:35):
pain has gone away. But I noticed in my face, my skin looks better.
Like I can't even find that 8 spot anymore. This is like something
that, over the course of a year that went away. And so there's the
systemic response, like it's rejuvenating the system,
which is totally fascinating. Right.
So to recap, you'll say with. With your device or a similar
(38:57):
device on like, say 25 to 50% brightness. 2 to
2 ish minutes. Yeah, 2 to 3 minutes. You shouldn't need too
much more, you know, R. When we look at ours, when you're three inches,
you know, away, we're well above 100 milliwatts per centimeter
squared energy. So that's kind of a gauge,
you know, at 6 inches away, we're around 80 to
(39:20):
100 milliwatts per centimeter squared. So still a very powerful device. And then
as you start to get farther away, it dramatically diminishes. It really depends on how
close you are to it. But if you're close to the panel
with myopia eye issues, you don't need a lot of dose. So
it's not a. It's not a long exposure. And even for skin,
it's not a long exposure. Three to five minutes should be plenty.
(39:43):
Well, how I do it is about four minutes on my face, and then I'll
Stand up and get my, my thigh because that's my injured area. And then I'll
finish my session and I'll do that twice a day. Because my, my
assumption was the face skin is thinner, it doesn't need as much.
Yeah, yeah, Erp. And that's what led to this. It works very
well together. Yeah, yeah, we do. PRP stem cells, regenerative
(40:05):
medicine. It's a beautiful combination even before.
Right. So you activate the stem cells. They did a very interesting study
where they took peripheral blood. They counted the, you know, we
can count stem cells in the blood by antigens markers on the
cells cell surface. They're called CD34. So they're CD34
positive cells. And then they looked at macrophages, which are a type of white
(40:28):
blood cell that could be, you know, promote healing. And they
irradiated just the lower leg, the tibia, for 15 minutes.
And then two hours afterwards they drew blood again. And within
two hours on average there was about a 300 increase in circulating stem
cells. And that lasted anywhere from a day to four days. So what
we like to do is if somebody's getting a PRP or cell therapy injection,
(40:52):
we want to kind of dose them before have that
massive increase. So then when we're taking blood and spinning it down, we're
getting more stem that product and then also
you want to do it afterwards because then you're continuously kind of reinforcing
that, that healing. So that's just one of the ways that the
red mite works. We talked about mitochondrial activation, we talked about stem
(41:14):
cells. And the last thing we really haven't talked about is pain reduction, inflammation.
It works on the capsaicin receptors in the nerve cells.
And it, so that's, if you get in front of a red light panel and
you feel better right away, it's because of that. So it's not
magic, it's not fixing things, it's reducing maybe some
blood flow effects that is kind of removing some inflammatory mediators in the area.
(41:36):
But one of the powerful effects that it has is it's down regulating
and modulating the capsaicin receptor, the pain receptor in the nerves.
So it feels good. So it actually acts as an analgesic. And so
that's why patients, if you get 5, 10 minutes in front of it and you're
like, dang, my pain went away. A big part of it is that the cool
thing is though you keep doing that, those capsaicin receptors start
(41:57):
to change their morphology. There's more calcium in the cells and they start
to Change over time, they start to heal. And so chronic neuropathic pain
can actually get better. So it actually modulates how those nerves behave.
And patients that have chronic pain, they're oftentimes their nerves are
chronically inflamed. So it's called neural inflammation. And so you're actually,
by doing that, you're changing that process. So over the course of weeks to
(42:20):
months, they will, that pain will be reduced and it will stay reduced.
And the nerves can actually improve their function. They can remyelinate.
Chronic painful neuropathies can improve. So it's really fascinating. But
that's where the beauty of the microdosing and continuous exposure
is really important. Some absolute gold
in everything that you went through there. And man, I appreciate
(42:43):
you taking the time with all of us today. It's just really gracious of you.
I'm hoping to make some time for just two more questions. Cause we didn't get
to John and Ben. Ben's had his hand raised for a little bit. So Tex,
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(43:04):
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(43:27):
how you move today with barefoot shoes. Ben,
your question? Yeah, I was, I was curious. You said
you worked at the spine clinic, right?
Or in on spinal issues as well.
And years ago I was prone and landed on my
forehead and had numbness in my arms for
(43:50):
about a week. And every now and then I'll get a little bit of numbness
in my right hand still. And I was, I was. Guess I was kind of
curious with
that type of injury because I can't imagine that it's something other
than a spinal injury. Right. Somewhere.
(44:11):
Have you, have you seen effects with that? And would
you treat the spine with that or
more of the. The hand where I actually get the
numbness? Yeah. So that would be again,
that is, you know, our wheelhouse. And so the proper
diagnosis is what you need an evaluation by a
(44:33):
spine specialist. We'd evaluate your
neck. Obviously if that injury caused that disturbance in the
limb, then my at least thought is let's rule out something
structural discogenic. Is there some nerve compromised, nerve
root injury? Was there a traction injury on the Brachial
plexus and then evaluate that limb. And there's specific
(44:57):
tests that we do, both physical examination,
you know, imaging, sometimes emg, nerve conduction studies to
assess kind of, you know, what's happening with the nerve. And then absolutely like
that. What we see, the combination of
regenerative therapies. Again, we have the. I have a three legged stool
of regenerative medicine. Like you have to have the three legs. So the stool works,
(45:19):
is proper diagnosis, you know, precision diagnosis, precision
biologics, what you're using in the precision delivery. So if, when we have
our injury determined, then you want to put the medicine in that
area. So is it a disc? Is it just the nerve? You know, is
it a facet joint? Right, we have facet joints. Could they be inflamed and irritated?
Was it more like a traction or, you know, compression injury of the nerve?
(45:41):
So we want to assess all those things and then this. Now we
heard today how the red light, near infrared is going to help all of
those things. Now if you can get, if you can get the benefit
by just doing the non invasive, like put the light on and it goes away.
Hallelujah. Right? That's fantastic. That's the best. We don't have to do anything, but if
it doesn't, then let's dive a little bit deeper and then,
(46:03):
you know, look structurally what's going on. Okay. And that's why the
radiology, as a radiologist, I'm super biased. So take everything I say
with the grant. I like to see what's happening. Like I want to see, what's
the mri, what's the ultrasound? You know what, what, why are we having this issue?
And then let's go after it and fix it. And then why I'm an
evangelist for regenerative medicine is I've taken probably
(46:24):
5,000 before and after MRIs showing that it heals.
So it's not just that. The patient tells me like, hey, this was amazing. It
feels good. I'm like, I'm a doubter, right? I'm like, I'm
skeptic. Why are you telling me that? Like, my first cases, I scanned it
again and I'm like, holy crap, it looks brand new. Like it's not supposed to
happen. Right? And that's what got me to regenerative medicine. So
(46:45):
that's what we see with all these structures. So if you can identify it, that's
the first step. I do appreciate
that you are always trying to
disprove your theory, if you will. Doing those
before and after.
Awesome. Well, this has been really great experience. I want
(47:06):
to thank everybody for joining and especially
Rahul. Thanks for taking the time out of your weekend to
answer the questions from the group. Really, really appreciate it, man.
Great questions. So intelligent. What an intelligent group. It's super cool
and I learned a lot as well. So I'm looking forward to the
PEMF data and I'm gonna kind of bug you on that, but. All right.
(47:29):
Wonderful weekend. All right, Chris, I'm going to show. You what we're doing
today. Okay.
Oh, nice. So I'm at
a strongman competition. I'm just helping out. You know how we are
with whoever the competitors are. We just help out with
(47:50):
whatever's going on. It's only a small event. It's cold as hell
out here. Yeah, it looks like fun, though. Yeah,
we're doing a mammoth bar, so we're expecting way over.
I'm gonna bet over a 700 pound dead though, today. All right.
Probably over 800. Sadly, I'm not part of it, but I'll do.
(48:10):
I'll be doing 700. Probably about three months, or at least
that's the aim. All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna follow up on that. Yeah, you keep, keep kicking
me in the ass, telling me to get there. All right, will do.
Thanks, Chris. Have a good one.
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