January 23, 2024 • 29 mins
We’re tackling dark circles and under-eye baggage with NYC Optometrist, Jennifer Tsai.
From identifying root causes to exploring the latest at-home and in-office treatments, learn how to achieve brighter, more vibrant eyes.
- Understanding Under-eye Circles and Bags: Causes and factors contributing to under-eye circles and bags, and common misconceptions about skincare for this delicate area.
- Pinch Test: Learn how to perform the "pinch test" to identify if the issue is beneath or on the skin's surface.
- Essential Ingredients in Eye Creams: Niacinamide, Vitamin C, Caffeine, and Hyaluronic Acid
- In-office Treatment Breakdown: When it’s time to consider advanced treatments like IPL, radiofrequency, microneedling, fillers, and surgical procedures.
- Lifestyle and Behavioral Changes: Practical tips for making positive changes to improve under-eye appearance. Sleep, hydration, and dietary recommendations for healthier eyes.
- LUMIFY EYE ILLUMINATIONS: Dr. Tsai explains the benefits and unique features of LUMIFY products, and why she recommends them to her patients.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is the Art Beauty podcast where weare always reaching for truth in beauty.
Remember, the brands and the people onthe show are not paying to be here.
So we get to ask them the questionswe know you want answered
because you deserve to be informedso you can make the best choices
for yourself.
With that said, I'm Amber Milt, and todaymy fabulous co-host is Dr.
Jennifer. Tsai.
She is a board certified optometristpracticing in Manhattan at line of sight.
(00:24):
We are so honored tohave you here on the show today.
Welcome.
Yes, Thank you for having me, Amber.
So, you know,I know that right now everybody's
focused on New Year, new you.
And I think one of the thingsthat we're all kind of
talking about these days is eyes.
I know for me,the holidays are so stressful.
Right?
So, you know, talking about thingsof what we can do for things like dark
(00:47):
circles and dry baggage and, yes, those
pesky fine lines and wrinkles.
And I know that we're going to be
talking about products that you lovea little bit later in the show,
but let's just get right into it.
You know, I think so many peopleare looking for that magic cure for dark
circles.
What do you recommend to patientsthat they do?
What causes them?
(01:08):
Yeah,
what causes them is actually key to knowwhat you're looking for in ingredients.
Because if you are actually treatingsomething, let's say on
top of the skinthat's causing the darkness
with the ingredientthat's helping with underneath
the skin, it'snot going to resolve the issue for you.
So I hope followers,but also patients a pinch test.
(01:28):
So really, it's simple.
You just pinch the skin underneath the eye
and you wantto make sure you have enough light on you.
So there's no shadows.
Shadows often timescause a dark darkness to it.
So if you pinch a skinand the darkness news,
that means the pigmentationis on top of the skin.
So that's just
(01:49):
limitation of darkness of the,the epithelium on top.
So when it's related to that,you want ingredients that actually lighten
the skin superficially on top.
So vitamin C ingredients like NIACINAMIDE
is going to be very helpfulfor top of the skin.
And we're thinking in top of the skinwhen it is beyond ingredients in creams
(02:09):
and ice creams, there are many treatmentsthat can be done in office
that really target that area.
IPL Intense pulse light is a treatmentthat is very, very effective
in targeting the darknesson top of the skin and pigmentation,
but it's also very effectiveat treating dry eyes as well
simultaneouslywhile you're doing it together.
That's pretty neat. Weight.
(02:31):
So IPL, which I mean I'm super familiarwith the talked on this podcast a lot.
I love it. It's great.
I've only had it done sort of all overthe face areas where, you know, for me
I tend to get dark darknessaround sort of,
you know, the upper cheek areafrom sun damage.
But when you're talking about dry eye,are you are you treating the eyelids
(02:51):
like where are you treating withIPL to target dry eyes.
Yeah.
So we were one of the first officesto get the new technology.
It is a device meantfor around the eye region.
So you are wearing protection and shield
and the devicecan also treat around the skin.
So it is a similarto the IPL that you have,
(03:11):
but the frequencyand the settings are different.
We can treat the top left and rightunderneath the bottom
when we can switch to a largerone to then target the full face.
And so it's quite helpful.
And that is where, you know,
my blooming glands are sitting,which oftentimes when they get clogged,
they're not making enough oilfor your tears that causes dryness.
So goodness,I'm signing up for this immediately.
(03:33):
We'll be calling your office to book this.
Right.
So that's on top of the skinwe didn't talk about underneath the skin.
Yeah, Yeah.
Let's talk about And by the way,just just as a little aside right now,
now is a great time to be doing IPL.
These winter months are a great timeto be targeting zings, skin
discolorationall over your skin with laser treatments
because you're not going to be, you know,for the most part, for those of us
(03:55):
who are not in sunny Floridaor maybe sunny California,
you're not getting as much outdoorskin or just,
you know, is actually a great timeif you have that hyperpigmentation
on top of the skinto be looking at those treatments.
So let's talk aboutif it's underneath the skin.
Right?
So, Amber, we were kind of like the punchtest, right?
So if you're pinching itand you move the skin and the pigmentation
(04:19):
still stays in the same spotthat is underneath
and that is typically due to poor bloodcirculation or blood pooling.
So usually with that, you want somethingthat constricts the blood vessels
and sort of dilating it.
So caffeine is great.
Arnica peptides,even cold compress icing it.
(04:40):
So that's what's effective for underneaththe skin when it comes to dark circles.
Now, I want to ask you, because I've heardmixed things from different doctors.
There are some doctors who say, you know,there's really nothing, no cream
that you can use to target discoloration.
But do you agree with that?
I would say it is call it half and half.
(05:01):
It's always.
Half ofit is genetics and changes over time.
Part of it is we start to losea little bit of elasticity
there, a little bit of the overallfat volume, and that causes a little bit
of that drunkenness or hollowness,which can look like dark circles.
But the other thing isthere are things related to even like
(05:23):
thinner skin, but also, you know,
things like not getting enough sleepand not getting enough sleep again
causesissues there as well is like smoking.
So there are certainly things within dietand exercise and lifestyle
that can contribute to that,that can be resolved.
And also certainly certaintypes of treatments.
(05:43):
We did talk about IPL but there iseven something now that we also have
that you may have heard of radio frequencythat's often used
for building collagento use for face and body.
We have one that's used around the eyes,but that's great.
at, is really building collagen underneaththe underneath tissues internally,
(06:05):
but also it helps again, meltingthose oil glands to help with dry eyes
and it helps with tightening the skinand helps us fine lines and wrinkles, too.
So I would say if you're really targetingit full on,
you probably want to consider thatsleeping habits, diet, lifestyle.
But also there are some migraines justknowing what you're exactly looking for.
Right.
(06:25):
And if you're looking for somethingmore effective,
certainly there are treatments for that.
You know,and I think you bring up a good point.
So I you know,I've been in the beauty business
for 20 years,and I find that when I'm consistently
using an eye cream,my eyes do look better.
I do think with any sort of treatment,we need to manage expectations.
So, you know, you're never goingto get in a bottle what you're going
(06:47):
to get from a needle, what you're goingto get from a knife, Right?
I mean, that's just Butbut I do want to just ask,
you know, your opinion,because there are some doctors are like,
you can't use any cream for under-eyediscoloration.
And I don't know from for me, Iit seems like what you're saying is, well,
let's target the type of discolorationyou have.
Is it above the skinor is it below the skin?
(07:07):
And then there are things that you can useto certainly help, right?
These ingredients
that you mentioned niacinamide caffeine,depending on the type of eye problem.
But but I think it's good to manageexpectations that it's not going to be
a miracle cream to totally get rid of it,but that it certainly can help.
Exactly.
There's no dark circle eraserthat you just use overnight and it's gone.
(07:29):
So it's what are we targetingand what ingredient is in it?
And think of itmore like maintenance in terms of,
you know, when you choose ingredientsand you use and top it,
can you use, you know, the argumentis, can you just use facial creams?
I have the same ingredientson top of the lid most of the time.
If it's just generic, you know, makingsure that you use all over, that's great.
(07:52):
But you just have to be carefulbecause let's say if you do something
more occlusive around the lid region,it can cause things like milia.
So it really the concentrationalso matters because the area again
is slightly differentaround the island region.
But again it's more about the ingredientsand what the specific concerns.
I'm so glad you said thatbecause here you are,
you are a doctor, you are not pushing
any particular products,
(08:12):
but people are always like,do I really need a separate cream?
And I'm like, Well,the eye area is different.
So yeah, if you have the budget,if it's within your beauty budget
and it's somethingyou can incorporate it into your routine,
certainly have a product formulated forthe eyes is is not a bad choice.
Because. You knowand then you mentioned genetics.
I mean I think thatthere are certain people
(08:33):
my husband is one of them who hasgenetically dark circles under his eyes.
He had them, his mother had them.
I didn't know the grandparents.I'm not sure if they had them,
you know.
What are your thoughtsas an optometrist with things like
filler under the eye
filler?
Okay, so
fillers are
(08:55):
is going to help with hollowness.
Yeah.
Or let's say you've lost volume there,
which again probably is more considered
a redistributionof your overall fat parts.
That tends to happen with age.It can be genetic.
Some people are born with just under-eyebags, a little bit of puffiness.
(09:16):
So fillers, when it comes to hollownesscould be helpful.
Again, that's, you know,are you looking for something
that's over the counter to somethinglike needles, to surgical procedures?
But you know, if
let's say there is a loss of
so that when the skin thins, as we getolder, the fat pads
protrude out and that's causesthe appearance of under-eye bags.
(09:40):
If you inject filler,the area isn't necessarily considered
even because the fat, your natural fatand filler fat, especially over a very,
very, very thin tissue, they're very,very thin skin.
It's going to be more apparent.
So I would say it definitely is something
where you'd want to go to someonethat you trust, a skilled practitioner,
(10:02):
and you want to make
sure, especially if you're injectinganywhere around the area.
But the other thing is, again,there are so many amazing things
that can be done now these days,if you're looking for more of a
the next step approach, be beyond creams.
Like I said,
radiofrequency is something that would besomething considered helpful.
(10:23):
There's even things like Exosomes now
exosome facials and treatments aroundthat area microneedling
that others might turn to for more
sort of a genitiveor restorative approach.
Yeah, and you,and you hit the nail on that.
Be very carefularound the area with the eyes.
Make sure that you're going tosomebody who
is licensedand board certified to do that.
(10:43):
I would not go to your
well.
Look on. It. Yeah, yeah.
Just be careful around there
And then we've also and we,we don't have to get into this,
but be careful because certain fillerscan almost add more discoloration
if they're put
if they're placed improperlybecause hyaluronic acid has a blue tint.
So it can actually make that discolorationappear worse.
(11:05):
Proceed with caution.
Okay.
So, so we kind of coveredand I love that idea of the pinch test
for under-eye for discoloration, rather.
Right.
Let's talk about now under eye bags,because that's the next thing.
And we've kind of hit on thata little bit.
What are what are some of the thingsthat we should be looking for for that.
If at the end, our eye
(11:26):
bag is, again, genetically related,that means
since you were hadyou've had the signs of the
it's just the genetic distributionof your orbital fat pads,
things thathelp burn enough that if we're talking
about treatment wise, it's definitelylike something with Microneedling
because it can target underneath the skinto burn a little bit of that.
(11:46):
Obviously, there's buffer plusif you want to take the surgical route.
But you know, starting first basewith just creams, certain specific
and again, ingredients for under-eye bags,if it's caused by fluid retention,
then caffeine is very effectiveagainst icing.
It. Arnica is great at that.
(12:07):
But if it's more fat and you know where
that's located,then that's slightly different.
Gotcha. Okay.
And now something that I feel likewe all have to contend
with from all the smiles and the laughter,
fine lines and wrinkles around the area,I area.
Are fine linesand they converge, starting with like
(12:29):
the creams were startingtheir first as baseline
retinol.
Retinol based eye creams are very,very great
because it helps the cellular turnoverin that area.
And that's great for fine linesand wrinkles.
Again, if it's dehydrated skinthat's causing fine lines
and wrinkles, anything that has hyaluronicacid is quite important to help
(12:51):
with plumping the skinand keeping it moisturized.
If you think about it more on a holisticlevel, you want to be preventative too,
because we know sun damage, for example,is going to lead to fine lines
and wrinklesand deterioration of the tissue there.
So looking for an SPFthat is safe to use around the eyes
with mineral blockers is going to bealso a great choice if we are moving on
(13:13):
beyond that,certainly careful placements of Botox
around the eye can be helpful.
So, yeah, those are the suggestions.
Generally speaking.
I am a huge fan of Botox.
I didn't start until my midto late thirties, but I will tell you
when they do this around the eyes,it does make a difference.
(13:33):
I mean, you know, small amountscan make a very, very big difference.
But again,go to somebody who is board certified
who you trust,because the problem with Botox is
if it gets misplaced, youthere's nothing we can do about it.
It's not like fillers.We can't dissolve it.
You have to just wait it out.
And I've seen some videos.
It's just not fun.
(13:55):
So, you know, with that said, too,I feel like we've been talking
about the creams.
I'm excitedbecause I do want to talk about Mummify.
I know that you are.
You don't work for LUMIFY or you know,you're not a but you do love this.
I love LUMIFY.
So I started with the little drops there.
(14:16):
I see it.I wear them every time. Now I am.
This is a good time to talk with us.So these make a huge difference on me.
I've posted on social.
I will repost on social around timebecause you'll see
what and any time I go oncamera this is what I'm wearing
is itdangerous to be using these every day?
So yeah. Okay.
(14:36):
So everything in moderation, right? Yeah.
And a lot of my patientswho are on, let's say,
because they're on screen,they're filming,
they need somethingwhere their eyes look white and I get it.
It's something that's instant.
I always need to start firstwith It's always important
to sort of targetwhat's causing the redness underneath it.
So whether that's dryness,it's it's working on that.
(14:59):
But when it comes to more of the whiteningeffect, Mummify
is very safe and it's very effective.
The key difference is the activeingredient in it is promoting
heart rate, which is very different from,let's say I went in drops
or the counter made from Visine or Ice.
So you want to stray away from thosebecause the ingredients
(15:19):
are slightly different.
So this doesn't constrictboth your your vessels and your material.
So it's going to be much more safeper option.
But when I say in moderation, it's more
that there are definitely preservativesor certain all bottles do.
And sometimes
when you use that too often or frequently,that can cause a little bit of dryness.
(15:42):
So I would say very safe.
You know I whitening drop to usebut again also in moderation.
I mean for me it's like my podcastdays are my recording days are on Friday.
So I'm using this once a weekand then maybe if I've got like
an event to go to or something,but it's not necessarily a daily thing.
But boy, let me tell you,they make a huge difference If you have
(16:03):
an event, if you're going to be on camera,if you need to look just your best.
Yeah, it brightensand it feels like it's like
sort of perks up your eyes a bit.
It totally parts of your I mean, I
this is in I have a bottle of this
in every single one of my on cameramakeup or kits.
(16:24):
So I was really excited because they,I've known about LUMIFY for a while.
I worked with them at New Beauty,and then they came out
with an entire sort of eye hair line.
So, you know, as a doctor,
let's start with the micellarcleansing water, because,
I mean, I know that you've posted onlineabout this for me.
(16:46):
So many makeup, waterproof makeup removersburned my eyes
when I tried this and zero burningtook off the makeup.
What is it about this? It's so special.
So this is well, first it's greatbecause it's a three in one.
You can use it around the eyes.
You can.
I've even use it around my face as well.
(17:07):
It's very effective at removingwaterproof makeup.
So when they made the ingredients,they made sure,
you know, because if I is,
they, you know, made byI would say by Bausch Lomb.
And it started and I care.
We know that the ingredients are very safe
and effective,but also clean and hypoallergenic.
(17:29):
So sometimes the burning can come
from ingredients that could bea little bit harsh around the region.
So usually with this, it's greatbecause it helps remove,
but it's also moisturizingat the same time.
So it doesn't strip awaymuch from the skin
and cause itto, let's say, become more dry afterwards.
And I think all the all the eliminationdesigned, it's
(17:52):
packed with like hyaluronic acidI c and botanical extracts.
They really try to mimic the naturalbiology of our tears in her eyes.
And that's I find greatbecause not only in
just the dropsbut also in the products that they make.
It's very gentle.
I you know and again, I have to tell you,I have not
(18:14):
I mean, 99% of waterproof eye makeup
remover is really the only other oneI've been able to use as sephora's.
But this one, which. I think if.
It gets in the eyes, it hurts.
But this not at all.
And it does everything off.
It was so great. Amazing.
And then, of course, now you know, I don'twant to shut up, but I wear the lash.
If I fake lashes again,only when I'm going on camera.
(18:38):
I don't sleep with them overnight.
I take them off everyday,but I think that they pop up.
But I love a lash extension.
Yeah, I'm a lash extension lady, so I.
I was very
interested that they came outwith a lash and brow serum.
So now does this have some of those growth
ingredients that we find in other lashand brow serums?
(19:00):
Also, we're talking about prostaglandins.
Yeah, prostaglandins.
No, it does not.
And that's what's great about it.
It does not contain it.
They definitely done studies wherethey show the full results around week 12.
But you can even see it just looks likea transparent, nice serum on top.
So I don't know if you've seen
(19:20):
the latest talks aboutand no prosecutions are used.
It started in glaucoma eyedropsto help with decreasing eye pressure.
One of the side effects is lashlengthening and and hyperpigmentation
of eyelashes.
So that's how productsequities came about. Now
(19:42):
it again
it's not it's more on a milderI would say effect
but sometimes and use in the wrong areaa little too much for
some people can causewe worry about overall
fat loss you knowmelting a little bit of under fat.
So again this isn't saying avoid
all prostaglandin lash serums
(20:04):
that there are cases.
I'm a LaChapelle user I sorry now I,I I'm a lettuce user I use lettuce.
So there I admit it.
But you want to be carefuland make sure not get it in the eye.
You don't want to get anyI don't want to get around the skin.
So right by the base. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I went to an eye doctorand I asked, hey, because my,
my visionnow in my mid-forties is changing.
(20:27):
And I went and I was like, I'm worriedbecause I'm using this.
I know that this was developedfor glaucoma.
Is it changing the pressure in my eye?
So, listen, I'm just going to say,if you're using any products in the eye
and starting to no notice, eyechanges, it wasn't.
He said it had nothing to do with that.
Go visit your eye, doctor.
Exactly. You know.
It's always good.
And also,he was like 40 is the year when people,
(20:48):
you know,start to see that drop off in vision.
We hate that number.
I don't like it.
But now I we it's one of those things.
You know, it's one of those things.
Okay so and then so the brighteningeye cream and this is why
I was really glad that we got to talk foryou know, we like to keep it real here
(21:09):
on this podcast about like,is there any magic sort of thing?
But you did mention the different types
of hyper pigmentation,both on top of the skin and below this in
what is this brightening eye creamgood for.
So the one that you're holding,the brightening eye cream,
it does contain you can see it's nice.
(21:31):
It's not too thick again,especially when the skin on the eyes.
You want to make sure it's gentle.
But hyaluronic acid has vitamin Cand I write about 10:00 extracts.
So what?
That's great for is again, itkind of covers a little bit of everything
because hyaluronic acid is greatfor moisturizing the skin.
(21:51):
And let's say if it's dry, dehydrated.
So we want to
always moisturizeto prevent like fine lines as well.
But also it contains divine and C,which is Hyperpigmentation
Hyperpigmentation on top of the skin,
let's call it from sun damageor just over time,
you know, it can certainly change.
(22:11):
And so that's going to be helpfulfor that.
So I would say it coversa little bit of everything.
Again,
peptides is helpfulfor a little bit of puffiness.
It kind of has a little bit of everything,
but I would say that Glow is morejust like nice for the skin on top.
And now
(22:33):
I would be, do you know,
I don't mean to put you on the spot herebecause it was bad of me not to look up.
Do you know what the price pointson these are?
Ballpark.
Good question.
I think it's somewhere between 20
to 1, 20 to 28
and depending on which productyou're looking at.
(22:53):
So very affordablesold, I'm going to assume,
is it sort of sold in mass market areas?
Probably online as well?
Yeah, you can find it at your localretailer drugstore, you can find it
online.
Many places I Target, Walmart, CVScertainly carried the product line.
Now are there other you knowwhile I have you here before I let you go,
(23:17):
are there otherbrands for people out there
who might be listening of productsthat you love?
You know, when it comes to eyecare.
Like vision, you mean eye. Drops?
No, no, no.
For like, well,what actually, let's start there.
So for eye drops, are there productsthat you like for dry eyes.
Or dry eyes?
(23:37):
Whether you wear contacts or not,
it's important to look for bottlesthat are preservative free.
What I like is bio true hydration boost.
So by true hydration boost comesin a bottle, but it is preservative free.
So it's very easy to useinstead of the simple vials that you have
to carry around and reattach.
(23:57):
But it feels very comfortable
on the eye when you use itand it isn't blurred vision.
So that's one of my favorite onesfor Dry Eyes.
And I really like one called SustainNighttime Ointment for more severe
dryness, and it's used only at bedtime
to help with drynessbefore before bed itself.
And that one's more oflike a gel formula, correct?
(24:19):
A little bit thicker, Yes. Okay.
And how often now do you use this?
I'm going to be honest about here.
Do you use eyedrops every day?
I personally don't useeye drops every day.
Okay, I do.
We focus onI think drops are great to have
as needed,
but it's more about, again,treating the underlying issue.
(24:40):
If there's underlying dryness, oftentimeswe are more concerned about oil gland.
Loss.
Or buildup on a lid margin,even like my ability
to buffer itis or rosacea related dryness.
So we'd rather treat that the root causeby targeting that in the office
using again, radiofrequencyor APL treatments or thermal expressions,
(25:02):
and also talking about lifestylesand with hygiene
and how to keep that area cleanso that it's preventative
and there's so many habitsthat we do each day, not just in New York.
We look, we all look at screens,we all our contacts, we fly.
All these factors cause dryness as well.
I have to shout out, by the way,if you haven't checked out Dr.
Size Instagram,she's got fabulous videos on there.
(25:26):
It's what?
It's dark Jen and Juice,which is so cute because of the energy.
So that's great.
Dr. Jen and Juice, but with the D are notthe full spelled out doctor, you know,
and I listen I asked before we got onyou have the most incredible skin.
So since we are a beauty podcast,can you share some of the favorite
products that you're using rightnow? Yeah.
(25:47):
So if I go to my throughmy skincare regimen,
I remove my makeup with the micellarcleansing water from elimination
and I double cleanse.
So oil.
And then another film basethat has tea tree oil,
which is very helpfulfor anti inflammatory.
(26:08):
And then I make sure that I use a tonerto remove anything to help with the pores.
And then on top of that, sweet like what.
Toner are using.
I always even ask you, I'mgoing to butcher the name.
It's the French brand lab, Persia.
You know, Bill biology,Christian theology.
Yeah. Okay.Yes, we've had them on here before.
(26:28):
So you using the P50?
Yeah, exactly.
Well, they have such a cult following.
It is.
Yeah.
People that make sensebecause people who love it, love.
It, love it.
That's the only
and I don't go to specifically,maybe just one brand for all the things.
I mean, what I thinkcertainly certain brands
have really great productsand depending what you're looking for.
So you used the P50 as a toner.
(26:50):
Okay, Gotcha. Yep.
And then I put on the eye cream first.
I do use the hydrogel brighteningeye cream by eliminations
underneath my eye padded and on topjust around the area for face.
I'm like, I like toI've used it for years as belief.
Okay. Cream.
I don't know if you've heard of that one.Yeah.
I just like it.
(27:11):
And I think once it's not too thick,it's not too light,
but it feels greatand it's softens up the skin.
So I've been using thatfor a very long time.
But you know, performingmaintenance treatments, you know,
when I'm doing my dry treatments withI peel radiofrequency
and we also do microneedling in our officeand exosomes
we do that for phase two.
And it's kind of nice because it's againmore preventative approach and
(27:36):
you know, everyone does something.
So you got to maintain.
You got to maintain.
But boy, my goodness, you havethe most incredible, gorgeous skin.
I just want to thank you so muchfor being on here
if people want to come and find you.
So first of all, if they want LUMIFY ,we've already said you can find this.
Where can they go?
So for the LUMIFY products,you can search online.
(27:58):
Again.Your major retailer is Walmart Target.
You'll find them and they need CVS.
So major locations.
And if you are searching
online again, you can find them
through the major retailersfrom their websites online.
I believe you can even find iton Amazon as well. Yes.
(28:18):
And yeah.
And then if people want to come in,if they're in the New York area
and they want to come see you,what's the best way to find you?
So line of sight is in HudsonYards and Manhattan.
So we are on 29th and 10th ofand so you certainly can
just reach out our websiteto this line of sight vision dot com.
(28:41):
And our Instagram is line of sightvision Amazing.
I want to thank you so muchfor being on with me today. Dr.
Sy, before I let you go, do you haveany New Year's resolutions here?
Solutions? Good question.
A lot of inner work and alwaysreflecting and self awareness.
And when it comes to, I think, you know,skincare and beauty goals,
(29:03):
really,it's I'm excited to see what's in store,
what the trends are, and to see whatwe can bring into our practice
that we can offer that, You know,I think stem cell
therapy is a huge thing nowand looking to see
how we can incorporate that in 2024into our practice more than we are now.
(29:24):
Yeah. Well,thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you for being on.
If you have questions at homethat you want me
to pass along to the LUMIFY team or to Dr.
Sy, I'm happy to do so.
You can email meat hello@artbeautypodcast.com.
You can find us on Facebook, Instagramand YouTube @artbeautypodcast..
And as always,we will see you next Tuesday, hopefully
(29:44):
with your eyeslooking a little brighter and better.
Bye bye.
All right.
This is the Art Beauty podcast where weare always reaching for truth in beauty.
Remember, the brands and the people onthe show are not paying to be here.
So we get to ask them the questionswe know you want answered
because you deserve to be informedso you can make the best choices
for yourself.
With that said, I'm Amber Milt, and todaymy fabulous co-host is Dr.
Jennifer. Tsai.
She is a board certified optometristpracticing in Manhattan at line of sight.
(00:24):
We are so honored tohave you here on the show today.
Welcome.
Yes, Thank you for having me, Amber.
So, you know,I know that right now everybody's
focused on New Year, new you.
And I think one of the thingsthat we're all kind of
talking about these days is eyes.
I know for me,the holidays are so stressful.
Right?
So, you know, talking about thingsof what we can do for things like dark
(00:47):
circles and dry baggage and, yes, those
pesky fine lines and wrinkles.
And I know that we're going to be
talking about products that you lovea little bit later in the show,
but let's just get right into it.
You know, I think so many peopleare looking for that magic cure for dark
circles.
What do you recommend to patientsthat they do?
What causes them?
(01:08):
Yeah,
what causes them is actually key to knowwhat you're looking for in ingredients.
Because if you are actually treatingsomething, let's say on
top of the skinthat's causing the darkness
with the ingredientthat's helping with underneath
the skin, it'snot going to resolve the issue for you.
So I hope followers,but also patients a pinch test.
(01:28):
So really, it's simple.
You just pinch the skin underneath the eye
and you wantto make sure you have enough light on you.
So there's no shadows.
Shadows often timescause a dark darkness to it.
So if you pinch a skinand the darkness news,
that means the pigmentationis on top of the skin.
So that's just
(01:49):
limitation of darkness of the,the epithelium on top.
So when it's related to that,you want ingredients that actually lighten
the skin superficially on top.
So vitamin C ingredients like NIACINAMIDE
is going to be very helpfulfor top of the skin.
And we're thinking in top of the skinwhen it is beyond ingredients in creams
(02:09):
and ice creams, there are many treatmentsthat can be done in office
that really target that area.
IPL Intense pulse light is a treatmentthat is very, very effective
in targeting the darknesson top of the skin and pigmentation,
but it's also very effectiveat treating dry eyes as well
simultaneouslywhile you're doing it together.
That's pretty neat. Weight.
(02:31):
So IPL, which I mean I'm super familiarwith the talked on this podcast a lot.
I love it. It's great.
I've only had it done sort of all overthe face areas where, you know, for me
I tend to get dark darknessaround sort of,
you know, the upper cheek areafrom sun damage.
But when you're talking about dry eye,are you are you treating the eyelids
(02:51):
like where are you treating withIPL to target dry eyes.
Yeah.
So we were one of the first officesto get the new technology.
It is a device meantfor around the eye region.
So you are wearing protection and shield
and the devicecan also treat around the skin.
So it is a similarto the IPL that you have,
(03:11):
but the frequencyand the settings are different.
We can treat the top left and rightunderneath the bottom
when we can switch to a largerone to then target the full face.
And so it's quite helpful.
And that is where, you know,
my blooming glands are sitting,which oftentimes when they get clogged,
they're not making enough oilfor your tears that causes dryness.
So goodness,I'm signing up for this immediately.
(03:33):
We'll be calling your office to book this.
Right.
So that's on top of the skinwe didn't talk about underneath the skin.
Yeah, Yeah.
Let's talk about And by the way,just just as a little aside right now,
now is a great time to be doing IPL.
These winter months are a great timeto be targeting zings, skin
discolorationall over your skin with laser treatments
because you're not going to be, you know,for the most part, for those of us
(03:55):
who are not in sunny Floridaor maybe sunny California,
you're not getting as much outdoorskin or just,
you know, is actually a great timeif you have that hyperpigmentation
on top of the skinto be looking at those treatments.
So let's talk aboutif it's underneath the skin.
Right?
So, Amber, we were kind of like the punchtest, right?
So if you're pinching itand you move the skin and the pigmentation
(04:19):
still stays in the same spotthat is underneath
and that is typically due to poor bloodcirculation or blood pooling.
So usually with that, you want somethingthat constricts the blood vessels
and sort of dilating it.
So caffeine is great.
Arnica peptides,even cold compress icing it.
(04:40):
So that's what's effective for underneaththe skin when it comes to dark circles.
Now, I want to ask you, because I've heardmixed things from different doctors.
There are some doctors who say, you know,there's really nothing, no cream
that you can use to target discoloration.
But do you agree with that?
I would say it is call it half and half.
(05:01):
It's always.
Half ofit is genetics and changes over time.
Part of it is we start to losea little bit of elasticity
there, a little bit of the overallfat volume, and that causes a little bit
of that drunkenness or hollowness,which can look like dark circles.
But the other thing isthere are things related to even like
(05:23):
thinner skin, but also, you know,
things like not getting enough sleepand not getting enough sleep again
causesissues there as well is like smoking.
So there are certainly things within dietand exercise and lifestyle
that can contribute to that,that can be resolved.
And also certainly certaintypes of treatments.
(05:43):
We did talk about IPL but there iseven something now that we also have
that you may have heard of radio frequencythat's often used
for building collagento use for face and body.
We have one that's used around the eyes,but that's great.
at, is really building collagen underneaththe underneath tissues internally,
(06:05):
but also it helps again, meltingthose oil glands to help with dry eyes
and it helps with tightening the skinand helps us fine lines and wrinkles, too.
So I would say if you're really targetingit full on,
you probably want to consider thatsleeping habits, diet, lifestyle.
But also there are some migraines justknowing what you're exactly looking for.
Right.
(06:25):
And if you're looking for somethingmore effective,
certainly there are treatments for that.
You know,and I think you bring up a good point.
So I you know,I've been in the beauty business
for 20 years,and I find that when I'm consistently
using an eye cream,my eyes do look better.
I do think with any sort of treatment,we need to manage expectations.
So, you know, you're never goingto get in a bottle what you're going
(06:47):
to get from a needle, what you're goingto get from a knife, Right?
I mean, that's just Butbut I do want to just ask,
you know, your opinion,because there are some doctors are like,
you can't use any cream for under-eyediscoloration.
And I don't know from for me, Iit seems like what you're saying is, well,
let's target the type of discolorationyou have.
Is it above the skinor is it below the skin?
(07:07):
And then there are things that you can useto certainly help, right?
These ingredients
that you mentioned niacinamide caffeine,depending on the type of eye problem.
But but I think it's good to manageexpectations that it's not going to be
a miracle cream to totally get rid of it,but that it certainly can help.
Exactly.
There's no dark circle eraserthat you just use overnight and it's gone.
(07:29):
So it's what are we targetingand what ingredient is in it?
And think of itmore like maintenance in terms of,
you know, when you choose ingredientsand you use and top it,
can you use, you know, the argumentis, can you just use facial creams?
I have the same ingredientson top of the lid most of the time.
If it's just generic, you know, makingsure that you use all over, that's great.
(07:52):
But you just have to be carefulbecause let's say if you do something
more occlusive around the lid region,it can cause things like milia.
So it really the concentrationalso matters because the area again
is slightly differentaround the island region.
But again it's more about the ingredientsand what the specific concerns.
I'm so glad you said thatbecause here you are,
you are a doctor, you are not pushing
any particular products,
(08:12):
but people are always like,do I really need a separate cream?
And I'm like, Well,the eye area is different.
So yeah, if you have the budget,if it's within your beauty budget
and it's somethingyou can incorporate it into your routine,
certainly have a product formulated forthe eyes is is not a bad choice.
Because. You knowand then you mentioned genetics.
I mean I think thatthere are certain people
(08:33):
my husband is one of them who hasgenetically dark circles under his eyes.
He had them, his mother had them.
I didn't know the grandparents.I'm not sure if they had them,
you know.
What are your thoughtsas an optometrist with things like
filler under the eye
filler?
Okay, so
fillers are
(08:55):
is going to help with hollowness.
Yeah.
Or let's say you've lost volume there,
which again probably is more considered
a redistributionof your overall fat parts.
That tends to happen with age.It can be genetic.
Some people are born with just under-eyebags, a little bit of puffiness.
(09:16):
So fillers, when it comes to hollownesscould be helpful.
Again, that's, you know,are you looking for something
that's over the counter to somethinglike needles, to surgical procedures?
But you know, if
let's say there is a loss of
so that when the skin thins, as we getolder, the fat pads
protrude out and that's causesthe appearance of under-eye bags.
(09:40):
If you inject filler,the area isn't necessarily considered
even because the fat, your natural fatand filler fat, especially over a very,
very, very thin tissue, they're very,very thin skin.
It's going to be more apparent.
So I would say it definitely is something
where you'd want to go to someonethat you trust, a skilled practitioner,
(10:02):
and you want to make
sure, especially if you're injectinganywhere around the area.
But the other thing is, again,there are so many amazing things
that can be done now these days,if you're looking for more of a
the next step approach, be beyond creams.
Like I said,
radiofrequency is something that would besomething considered helpful.
(10:23):
There's even things like Exosomes now
exosome facials and treatments aroundthat area microneedling
that others might turn to for more
sort of a genitiveor restorative approach.
Yeah, and you,and you hit the nail on that.
Be very carefularound the area with the eyes.
Make sure that you're going tosomebody who
is licensedand board certified to do that.
(10:43):
I would not go to your
well.
Look on. It. Yeah, yeah.
Just be careful around there
And then we've also and we,we don't have to get into this,
but be careful because certain fillerscan almost add more discoloration
if they're put
if they're placed improperlybecause hyaluronic acid has a blue tint.
So it can actually make that discolorationappear worse.
(11:05):
Proceed with caution.
Okay.
So, so we kind of coveredand I love that idea of the pinch test
for under-eye for discoloration, rather.
Right.
Let's talk about now under eye bags,because that's the next thing.
And we've kind of hit on thata little bit.
What are what are some of the thingsthat we should be looking for for that.
If at the end, our eye
(11:26):
bag is, again, genetically related,that means
since you were hadyou've had the signs of the
it's just the genetic distributionof your orbital fat pads,
things thathelp burn enough that if we're talking
about treatment wise, it's definitelylike something with Microneedling
because it can target underneath the skinto burn a little bit of that.
(11:46):
Obviously, there's buffer plusif you want to take the surgical route.
But you know, starting first basewith just creams, certain specific
and again, ingredients for under-eye bags,if it's caused by fluid retention,
then caffeine is very effectiveagainst icing.
It. Arnica is great at that.
(12:07):
But if it's more fat and you know where
that's located,then that's slightly different.
Gotcha. Okay.
And now something that I feel likewe all have to contend
with from all the smiles and the laughter,
fine lines and wrinkles around the area,I area.
Are fine linesand they converge, starting with like
(12:29):
the creams were startingtheir first as baseline
retinol.
Retinol based eye creams are very,very great
because it helps the cellular turnoverin that area.
And that's great for fine linesand wrinkles.
Again, if it's dehydrated skinthat's causing fine lines
and wrinkles, anything that has hyaluronicacid is quite important to help
(12:51):
with plumping the skinand keeping it moisturized.
If you think about it more on a holisticlevel, you want to be preventative too,
because we know sun damage, for example,is going to lead to fine lines
and wrinklesand deterioration of the tissue there.
So looking for an SPFthat is safe to use around the eyes
with mineral blockers is going to bealso a great choice if we are moving on
(13:13):
beyond that,certainly careful placements of Botox
around the eye can be helpful.
So, yeah, those are the suggestions.
Generally speaking.
I am a huge fan of Botox.
I didn't start until my midto late thirties, but I will tell you
when they do this around the eyes,it does make a difference.
(13:33):
I mean, you know, small amountscan make a very, very big difference.
But again,go to somebody who is board certified
who you trust,because the problem with Botox is
if it gets misplaced, youthere's nothing we can do about it.
It's not like fillers.We can't dissolve it.
You have to just wait it out.
And I've seen some videos.
It's just not fun.
(13:55):
So, you know, with that said, too,I feel like we've been talking
about the creams.
I'm excitedbecause I do want to talk about Mummify.
I know that you are.
You don't work for LUMIFY or you know,you're not a but you do love this.
I love LUMIFY.
So I started with the little drops there.
(14:16):
I see it.I wear them every time. Now I am.
This is a good time to talk with us.So these make a huge difference on me.
I've posted on social.
I will repost on social around timebecause you'll see
what and any time I go oncamera this is what I'm wearing
is itdangerous to be using these every day?
So yeah. Okay.
(14:36):
So everything in moderation, right? Yeah.
And a lot of my patientswho are on, let's say,
because they're on screen,they're filming,
they need somethingwhere their eyes look white and I get it.
It's something that's instant.
I always need to start firstwith It's always important
to sort of targetwhat's causing the redness underneath it.
So whether that's dryness,it's it's working on that.
(14:59):
But when it comes to more of the whiteningeffect, Mummify
is very safe and it's very effective.
The key difference is the activeingredient in it is promoting
heart rate, which is very different from,let's say I went in drops
or the counter made from Visine or Ice.
So you want to stray away from thosebecause the ingredients
(15:19):
are slightly different.
So this doesn't constrictboth your your vessels and your material.
So it's going to be much more safeper option.
But when I say in moderation, it's more
that there are definitely preservativesor certain all bottles do.
And sometimes
when you use that too often or frequently,that can cause a little bit of dryness.
(15:42):
So I would say very safe.
You know I whitening drop to usebut again also in moderation.
I mean for me it's like my podcastdays are my recording days are on Friday.
So I'm using this once a weekand then maybe if I've got like
an event to go to or something,but it's not necessarily a daily thing.
But boy, let me tell you,they make a huge difference If you have
(16:03):
an event, if you're going to be on camera,if you need to look just your best.
Yeah, it brightensand it feels like it's like
sort of perks up your eyes a bit.
It totally parts of your I mean, I
this is in I have a bottle of this
in every single one of my on cameramakeup or kits.
(16:24):
So I was really excited because they,I've known about LUMIFY for a while.
I worked with them at New Beauty,and then they came out
with an entire sort of eye hair line.
So, you know, as a doctor,
let's start with the micellarcleansing water, because,
I mean, I know that you've posted onlineabout this for me.
(16:46):
So many makeup, waterproof makeup removersburned my eyes
when I tried this and zero burningtook off the makeup.
What is it about this? It's so special.
So this is well, first it's greatbecause it's a three in one.
You can use it around the eyes.
You can.
I've even use it around my face as well.
(17:07):
It's very effective at removingwaterproof makeup.
So when they made the ingredients,they made sure,
you know, because if I is,
they, you know, made byI would say by Bausch Lomb.
And it started and I care.
We know that the ingredients are very safe
and effective,but also clean and hypoallergenic.
(17:29):
So sometimes the burning can come
from ingredients that could bea little bit harsh around the region.
So usually with this, it's greatbecause it helps remove,
but it's also moisturizingat the same time.
So it doesn't strip awaymuch from the skin
and cause itto, let's say, become more dry afterwards.
And I think all the all the eliminationdesigned, it's
(17:52):
packed with like hyaluronic acidI c and botanical extracts.
They really try to mimic the naturalbiology of our tears in her eyes.
And that's I find greatbecause not only in
just the dropsbut also in the products that they make.
It's very gentle.
I you know and again, I have to tell you,I have not
(18:14):
I mean, 99% of waterproof eye makeup
remover is really the only other oneI've been able to use as sephora's.
But this one, which. I think if.
It gets in the eyes, it hurts.
But this not at all.
And it does everything off.
It was so great. Amazing.
And then, of course, now you know, I don'twant to shut up, but I wear the lash.
If I fake lashes again,only when I'm going on camera.
(18:38):
I don't sleep with them overnight.
I take them off everyday,but I think that they pop up.
But I love a lash extension.
Yeah, I'm a lash extension lady, so I.
I was very
interested that they came outwith a lash and brow serum.
So now does this have some of those growth
ingredients that we find in other lashand brow serums?
(19:00):
Also, we're talking about prostaglandins.
Yeah, prostaglandins.
No, it does not.
And that's what's great about it.
It does not contain it.
They definitely done studies wherethey show the full results around week 12.
But you can even see it just looks likea transparent, nice serum on top.
So I don't know if you've seen
(19:20):
the latest talks aboutand no prosecutions are used.
It started in glaucoma eyedropsto help with decreasing eye pressure.
One of the side effects is lashlengthening and and hyperpigmentation
of eyelashes.
So that's how productsequities came about. Now
(19:42):
it again
it's not it's more on a milderI would say effect
but sometimes and use in the wrong areaa little too much for
some people can causewe worry about overall
fat loss you knowmelting a little bit of under fat.
So again this isn't saying avoid
all prostaglandin lash serums
(20:04):
that there are cases.
I'm a LaChapelle user I sorry now I,I I'm a lettuce user I use lettuce.
So there I admit it.
But you want to be carefuland make sure not get it in the eye.
You don't want to get anyI don't want to get around the skin.
So right by the base. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I went to an eye doctorand I asked, hey, because my,
my visionnow in my mid-forties is changing.
(20:27):
And I went and I was like, I'm worriedbecause I'm using this.
I know that this was developedfor glaucoma.
Is it changing the pressure in my eye?
So, listen, I'm just going to say,if you're using any products in the eye
and starting to no notice, eyechanges, it wasn't.
He said it had nothing to do with that.
Go visit your eye, doctor.
Exactly. You know.
It's always good.
And also,he was like 40 is the year when people,
(20:48):
you know,start to see that drop off in vision.
We hate that number.
I don't like it.
But now I we it's one of those things.
You know, it's one of those things.
Okay so and then so the brighteningeye cream and this is why
I was really glad that we got to talk foryou know, we like to keep it real here
(21:09):
on this podcast about like,is there any magic sort of thing?
But you did mention the different types
of hyper pigmentation,both on top of the skin and below this in
what is this brightening eye creamgood for.
So the one that you're holding,the brightening eye cream,
it does contain you can see it's nice.
(21:31):
It's not too thick again,especially when the skin on the eyes.
You want to make sure it's gentle.
But hyaluronic acid has vitamin Cand I write about 10:00 extracts.
So what?
That's great for is again, itkind of covers a little bit of everything
because hyaluronic acid is greatfor moisturizing the skin.
(21:51):
And let's say if it's dry, dehydrated.
So we want to
always moisturizeto prevent like fine lines as well.
But also it contains divine and C,which is Hyperpigmentation
Hyperpigmentation on top of the skin,
let's call it from sun damageor just over time,
you know, it can certainly change.
(22:11):
And so that's going to be helpfulfor that.
So I would say it coversa little bit of everything.
Again,
peptides is helpfulfor a little bit of puffiness.
It kind of has a little bit of everything,
but I would say that Glow is morejust like nice for the skin on top.
And now
(22:33):
I would be, do you know,
I don't mean to put you on the spot herebecause it was bad of me not to look up.
Do you know what the price pointson these are?
Ballpark.
Good question.
I think it's somewhere between 20
to 1, 20 to 28
and depending on which productyou're looking at.
(22:53):
So very affordablesold, I'm going to assume,
is it sort of sold in mass market areas?
Probably online as well?
Yeah, you can find it at your localretailer drugstore, you can find it
online.
Many places I Target, Walmart, CVScertainly carried the product line.
Now are there other you knowwhile I have you here before I let you go,
(23:17):
are there otherbrands for people out there
who might be listening of productsthat you love?
You know, when it comes to eyecare.
Like vision, you mean eye. Drops?
No, no, no.
For like, well,what actually, let's start there.
So for eye drops, are there productsthat you like for dry eyes.
Or dry eyes?
(23:37):
Whether you wear contacts or not,
it's important to look for bottlesthat are preservative free.
What I like is bio true hydration boost.
So by true hydration boost comesin a bottle, but it is preservative free.
So it's very easy to useinstead of the simple vials that you have
to carry around and reattach.
(23:57):
But it feels very comfortable
on the eye when you use itand it isn't blurred vision.
So that's one of my favorite onesfor Dry Eyes.
And I really like one called SustainNighttime Ointment for more severe
dryness, and it's used only at bedtime
to help with drynessbefore before bed itself.
And that one's more oflike a gel formula, correct?
(24:19):
A little bit thicker, Yes. Okay.
And how often now do you use this?
I'm going to be honest about here.
Do you use eyedrops every day?
I personally don't useeye drops every day.
Okay, I do.
We focus onI think drops are great to have
as needed,
but it's more about, again,treating the underlying issue.
(24:40):
If there's underlying dryness, oftentimeswe are more concerned about oil gland.
Loss.
Or buildup on a lid margin,even like my ability
to buffer itis or rosacea related dryness.
So we'd rather treat that the root causeby targeting that in the office
using again, radiofrequencyor APL treatments or thermal expressions,
(25:02):
and also talking about lifestylesand with hygiene
and how to keep that area cleanso that it's preventative
and there's so many habitsthat we do each day, not just in New York.
We look, we all look at screens,we all our contacts, we fly.
All these factors cause dryness as well.
I have to shout out, by the way,if you haven't checked out Dr.
Size Instagram,she's got fabulous videos on there.
(25:26):
It's what?
It's dark Jen and Juice,which is so cute because of the energy.
So that's great.
Dr. Jen and Juice, but with the D are notthe full spelled out doctor, you know,
and I listen I asked before we got onyou have the most incredible skin.
So since we are a beauty podcast,can you share some of the favorite
products that you're using rightnow? Yeah.
(25:47):
So if I go to my throughmy skincare regimen,
I remove my makeup with the micellarcleansing water from elimination
and I double cleanse.
So oil.
And then another film basethat has tea tree oil,
which is very helpfulfor anti inflammatory.
(26:08):
And then I make sure that I use a tonerto remove anything to help with the pores.
And then on top of that, sweet like what.
Toner are using.
I always even ask you, I'mgoing to butcher the name.
It's the French brand lab, Persia.
You know, Bill biology,Christian theology.
Yeah. Okay.Yes, we've had them on here before.
(26:28):
So you using the P50?
Yeah, exactly.
Well, they have such a cult following.
It is.
Yeah.
People that make sensebecause people who love it, love.
It, love it.
That's the only
and I don't go to specifically,maybe just one brand for all the things.
I mean, what I thinkcertainly certain brands
have really great productsand depending what you're looking for.
So you used the P50 as a toner.
(26:50):
Okay, Gotcha. Yep.
And then I put on the eye cream first.
I do use the hydrogel brighteningeye cream by eliminations
underneath my eye padded and on topjust around the area for face.
I'm like, I like toI've used it for years as belief.
Okay. Cream.
I don't know if you've heard of that one.Yeah.
I just like it.
(27:11):
And I think once it's not too thick,it's not too light,
but it feels greatand it's softens up the skin.
So I've been using thatfor a very long time.
But you know, performingmaintenance treatments, you know,
when I'm doing my dry treatments withI peel radiofrequency
and we also do microneedling in our officeand exosomes
we do that for phase two.
And it's kind of nice because it's againmore preventative approach and
(27:36):
you know, everyone does something.
So you got to maintain.
You got to maintain.
But boy, my goodness, you havethe most incredible, gorgeous skin.
I just want to thank you so muchfor being on here
if people want to come and find you.
So first of all, if they want LUMIFY ,we've already said you can find this.
Where can they go?
So for the LUMIFY products,you can search online.
(27:58):
Again.Your major retailer is Walmart Target.
You'll find them and they need CVS.
So major locations.
And if you are searching
online again, you can find them
through the major retailersfrom their websites online.
I believe you can even find iton Amazon as well. Yes.
(28:18):
And yeah.
And then if people want to come in,if they're in the New York area
and they want to come see you,what's the best way to find you?
So line of sight is in HudsonYards and Manhattan.
So we are on 29th and 10th ofand so you certainly can
just reach out our websiteto this line of sight vision dot com.
(28:41):
And our Instagram is line of sightvision Amazing.
I want to thank you so muchfor being on with me today. Dr.
Sy, before I let you go, do you haveany New Year's resolutions here?
Solutions? Good question.
A lot of inner work and alwaysreflecting and self awareness.
And when it comes to, I think, you know,skincare and beauty goals,
(29:03):
really,it's I'm excited to see what's in store,
what the trends are, and to see whatwe can bring into our practice
that we can offer that, You know,I think stem cell
therapy is a huge thing nowand looking to see
how we can incorporate that in 2024into our practice more than we are now.
(29:24):
Yeah. Well,thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you for being on.
If you have questions at homethat you want me
to pass along to the LUMIFY team or to Dr.
Sy, I'm happy to do so.
You can email meat hello@artbeautypodcast.com.
You can find us on Facebook, Instagramand YouTube @artbeautypodcast..
And as always,we will see you next Tuesday, hopefully
(29:44):
with your eyeslooking a little brighter and better.
Bye bye.
All right.
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