July 9, 2025 • 30 mins
Success requires a sound foundation. When the foundation of a child’s life is built of bricks of shame and insults, it seems inevitable that the child feels unimportant and unwanted. Libby Wipperfurth grew up in a home of conflicting boundaries and messages. The turmoil led to deep depression, anxiety, and years of alcoholism. After several attempts to stay sober failed, she found herself at a tipping point. She talks about how she put her life back together brick by brick. Libby is a mother, a wife, a peer specialist, and an author whose book, “Daily Journal: Building a Strong Foundation — One Brick at a Time,” can be found at https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Journal-Building-Strong-Foundation/dp/B0CT5LYYZ4. She can be reached at https://lfwipperfurth.com/ The State of Wisconsin's Dose of Reality campaign is at https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/opioids/index.htm More information about the federal response to the ongoing opioid crisis can be found at https://www.dea.gov/onepill
The views and opinions of the guests on this podcast are theirs and theirs alone and do not necessarily represent those of the host or Westwords Consulting.
We're always interested in hearing from individuals or organizations who are working in substance use disorder treatment or prevention, mental health care and other spaces that lift up communities. This includes people living those experiences. If you or someone you know has a story to share or an interesting approach to care, contact us today!
Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
Subscribe to Our Email List to get new episodes in your inbox every week!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction,brought to you by Westwords Consulting,
the Kenosha County Substance Use DisorderCoalition, and by a grant from the State
of Wisconsin's Dose of Reality RealTalks reminding you that opioids are
powerful drugs and that one pill can kill.
I'm Mike McGowan.
(00:32):
Libby Wipperfurth grew up in a home ofconflicting boundaries and messages.
The turmoil led to deep depression,anxiety, years of alcoholism.
Hard to believe you look so young.
After several attempts tostay sober failed, she found
herself at a tipping point.
She's with us today to talkabout how she put her life back
together brick by brick by brick.
(00:55):
Libby is a mom, a wife, a peer specialist,and an author whose book, Daily Journal
Building A Strong Foundation One BrickAt A Time is linked on the podcast blurb.
Welcome Libby.
Hey, Mike.
I'm grateful to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Well see, isn't that nice?
That's part of yourjournaling book, right?
You're grateful.
So I always ask this first, howlong have you been in recovery?
(01:18):
I just celebrated nine yearsalcohol free on May 18th, so
that is 3,309 days as of today.
It seems very long when you put itout in days, but it doesn't seem that
long ago that my life was completelydifferent and you know, it was hard.
I didn't, most days I didn't think Iwould make it through the day, and now
(01:39):
I'm living the life that I couldn't haveeven imagined at that point in my life.
Well, when you talk about recoveringbrick by brick doing it one day at
a time, keeping track of the days,I think is a really good idea.
Yeah.
And I mean especially at the beginning,you're going second by second.
Yes.
You know, just trying to get through.
(01:59):
And so each day we make itto another day is a good day.
I don't know if you've probablyheard this, I'm sure people who are
listening have heard various stories.
But one of the more remarkable ones, whenI was a young man doing family therapy, I
had a woman say to me that she literallystood in her kitchen, set the oven timer
for five minutes and held onto the stove.
(02:21):
Oh wow.
Yeah.
And then reset it, reset it, reset it.
So, you know, recovery can be a challenge.
Well, let's go back.
I listened to a talk you have on YouTube,and I flinched when I heard you talk
about your family's love language.
What was it?
It was a love languageof sarcasm and insults.
(02:41):
Oh God.
Yeah.
That, that's cringe worthy, but Iwondered when I heard that, I went, okay.
Ditto.
Right.
And, you know, it's all fun and games,but, you know, words hurt and you
know, when you're growing up likethat, it's kind of, it takes a toll
on your self-esteem and you're worthy.
It does, it does.
You know, when Libby, I work withkids and I ask them all the time how
(03:04):
old they were when they realize thedifference between funny and mean.
And they all say aroundthe age of four or five.
So the two words I reallyhate are just kidding.
Yeah.
You know, and when a dad or mom says,just kidding, eh, it doesn't, it still
stings and you remember it, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It can be very hurtful.
(03:24):
I feel like a huge part of ourpopulation grew up that way.
It was kind of the norm.
Even like the TV shows and thingslike that in the eighties, nineties,
like Roseanne, Married with Children.
Those were our family shows.
And it was very dysfunctional families.
Oh, God, I've talked about that there.
It's just so unhealthy.
(03:45):
And then people picked it upand even say, I'm bilingual.
I speak sarcasm as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So who was it?
Was it your mom, dad, both, your brother?
Mainly my father.
I spent a lot of time with my grandparentsas well which was my father's parents.
That, yeah, just a lot of thatjoking around, sarcasm, but you
know, there's always a littlelayer of truth with those jokes.
(04:07):
Yeah.
Did it get when they were drinking?
Mm-hmm.
Did it get a little bit quicker?
Meaner?
Yeah, but it was always with a laugh.
So you're not being mean.
It's fun, you know, don't be mad,it was just a joke and, yeah.
Yeah.
I remember you know, if you saysomething, especially depending
(04:30):
your age of development, especiallyto a young girl from a dad,
that's really impactful, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There was an instance where I got myfirst sports bra (laughs) and I was made
to try it on in front of the family, andthen I got ridiculed for having mosquito
bites and that, you know, that whole,you know, experience has stuck with me.
(04:55):
And, you know, just all those littledigs can really do damage on someone.
Oh God, that's, yeah, I'd be willingto bet there's people listening
to this, just shaking theirhead right now in the same way.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I've done numerous podcastswith people, experts, people who work with
folks who are therapists, who have allsaid that many, many times shame is put
(05:18):
on us by those who are supposed to carethe most about us, and it affects you.
So then I heard you say that therefore.
One of your foundational bricks?
Yeah.
Was that you just don't matter?
Yeah.
I didn't feel that Ifit in with my family.
(05:39):
I didn't feel like I belongedwith, you know, kind of a lot of
the jokes and things like that.
I just didn't feel emotionallyand mentally taken care of.
So yeah, I just felt like I didn't matter.
And growing up feeling that, you know.
Your family is your, everything.
You know nothing else but your family.
So to feel that you don't belong inyour own family was just devastating.
(06:01):
I had no sense of who I was,who I was supposed to be.
Just kind of felt very lost and...
Not real confident?
Yeah.
Kind of nowhere to turn.
So predictably, right?
Mm-hmm.
When did you first start drinking?
Alcohol was a huge part of just theday-to-day life in our household.
(06:22):
Both my parents are daily drinkers.
My grandparents aredaily drinkers as well.
The first time I remember liketaking a drink on my own, kind
of sneaking a drink was about 12.
You know, every householdhad alcohol in it.
There was a point in middle school thatme and a group of friends, even like, had
screwdrivers before we went to school.
In middle school?
(06:43):
Yeah.
And like, you know, parents justthought we were taking our cups of
orange juice on our walk to school.
You know, it was just, it was, just so youknow, we're in Wisconsin, "We've Been Out
Drinking Your State Since 1948." Right?
Yeah.
Right.
I'm laughing because anytime I seea teenager with orange juice, my
assumption is it's not orange juice.
(07:04):
Right.
Yeah.
I never liked orange juice, exceptfor if there was alcohol in it.
So.
(laughs)
Well, you said they were, youwere around it all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And your first drink was a 12.
Well, what about earlier?
Were you allowed to sip?
Did they give you sips?
Yeah, we would've likesips every now and then.
We did a lot of, my cousins andI kind of like pretending to
(07:25):
drink and all of those things.
We would have our sparklingcider you know, and all the
holidays, things like that.
I used to go to the bar quite a bit withmy grandparents and I'd get my kitty
cocktail and they'd have their drinksand, you know, I was just kind of.
That's the way it was.
You drank when you were happy,you drank when you were sad.
(07:45):
If there was something tocelebrate, let's get a drink.
Oh, you're having a bad day.
Let's get a drink.
It was just, that was how you lived
And coped.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I chuckled.
Your grandparents had a phrase for,you made like a lot of our guests,
you made drinks for your grandparents.
What did they call?
I don't remember now.
Yeah, they would say, fix my liver.
(08:07):
Fix my liver.
Yep.
My god.
Time to go make them a drink.
And, you know, they were happyand I felt I was being a good kid.
I was doing what I was told.
Which was I think a big part ofmy upbringing was, I felt that I
had to do as I was told, I wasn'tgoing to be loved or accepted
unless I was doing, as I was told.
(08:29):
So I, you know, got the, the goodgirl syndrome and just if I was
doing what I was told I was okay.
What was their drink of choice?
Typically like brandy and water,so it was pretty easy to make.
Yes.
And for those of you who aren'tin Wisconsin, we are the brandy
capital of the world, so.
Yeah.
(08:49):
Not unfamiliar.
Yeah.
And then as a teenager, you hitthe teenage trifecta, right?
Yeah.
Drinking, cutting, and eating problems.
Yeah, I would abuse diet pills.
That was back when they hadthe, was that ephedrine.
Sure yeah.
And then just really disordered eatingwith dieting and things like that.
(09:13):
Later on, after high school, Iwas a bulimic for a little bit.
And a lot of it was like, especiallykind of like the cutting in
that it was, I wasn't able tonecessarily numb always with alcohol.
Mm.
There was other things I wouldfind a way to numb myself with.
Did it work?
Oh God, no!
(09:34):
(laughs) If anything, it, youknow, it only made it worse.
I mean it worked temporarily untilthe buzz would wear off and then I
would end up feeling worse 'causethose feelings were still there.
And then on top of that, then you'rehaving either the hangover or the
withdrawal symptoms and things like that.
And with like alcohol being a depressant,it made my depression even worse.
(09:57):
And so we're talking throughmiddle school now and high school.
Yeah.
Can I ask, where did you cut?
Arms, legs?
Typically actually my abdominal area.
Mm mm.
I feel I was very talented atkeeping a lot of my secrets hidden.
That's why I was asking.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So nobody knew.
No.
(10:18):
Did people suspect?
I think they knew or suspectedlike the drinking and some possible
drug use, but nothing else.
Well, but, but who were you hanging with?
They had to, you know.
My friends they drank and usedsubstances as well, but I kept a lot
of the other stuff just to myself.
(10:38):
So even your friends you werehanging with didn't realize you were
cutting or necessarily bulimic or?
No.
I didn't share much with others.
Which that's a hugepart of my recovery now.
I feel talking is the best thing.
But it was just, you didn'ttalk about things back then.
You know?
It was just the time of therewasn't many divorced families.
(10:59):
There was, you know, the mentalhealth, all the stigma around that.
We, you just didn't talk about things so.
A lot of my friendships were very, thesuperficial level where you didn't get
deep into what was going on at home.
It was, you know, we had funtogether, we'd party together.
But then other than that, therewas not that deep connection.
That's always such an interestingturn to me to partying, right?
(11:20):
Yeah.
It almost like, oh yeah, it's,it's a good thing right to party.
Yeah.
And then in adulthood you addedblackouts and promiscuous.
Yeah.
Right.
Yep.
Yeah, I was also taking antidepressantsand anti-anxiety medication
which a lot of those you're notsupposed to have alcohol with.
(11:41):
So yeah, I was kind of like a zombie andI would just not remember a lot of things.
You know, I would spend a lot of mymornings hungover trying to figure
out what I did or said the nightbefore, you know, going through my
text messages and hoping I didn't,you know, no one's mad at me and.
It's just, it's a lot to, it just addsonto the anxiety and the depression.
(12:05):
It's a vicious cycle of,okay, what did I do wrong now?
[inaudible] Then you start drinking again.
There's a lot of people who are maybelistening who have never had a blackout.
Yeah.
So, and they can't fathomhaving one and having another.
So do you remember your first one?
Was it when you were young or?
(12:27):
I would probably more into likeyoung twenties, I would say.
And did it scare you?
A little bit, but I feel a lot of itwas that I just felt it was just normal.
Hmm.
That it was, you know, oh, youjust drank too much that night.
Maybe next time don't drink as much.
Don't you don't drinkhard alcohol that time.
(12:48):
Yeah, it wasn't the behavior,it's the alcohol, right?
Yeah.
So I would come up with excuses ortry something different next time.
Along the way your folks broke up.
Yeah.
So my parents separated whenI was probably about eight.
It was told to us that my mom had anaffair and was leaving us for this other
(13:11):
person and wanted nothing to do with us.
So that was part of my large foundationof not feeling like I mattered.
My own mother doesn't want me, and I don'tknow the full story, things like that.
But you know, as a child, that's whatmy narrative was, was that my mom
doesn't love me and I don't matter.
(13:31):
That relationship endedup not working out.
And then she wanted to have somecustody with us, but she lived in
a different state at that point.
So it was a lot of back and forthand feeling forced to go somewhere
to be with someone who I didn'tthink wanted to be with me.
It was just, it was rough as a childkind of feeling like where do I belong?
(13:54):
You know, no one loves me.
Now I have to miss out on all thistime with my friends to go hang out
with this person that doesn't love me.
When I heard you talk aboutthat you and your brother got,
your dad just stuck on a bus?
Yep.
So by the time she was outta statethere, they had a very toxic divorce
and weren't able to co-parent very well.
(14:16):
So he was tired of havingto meet her halfway and you
know, an hour and a half away.
So he would put us on a bus and thatwould take us there and yeah, I can't
fathom doing that now with my children.
But (laughs).
Yeah.
This was no cell phones, no.
No Life 360.
Yeah.
No, nothing.
(14:37):
It was just like, all right,see you Sunday, and hope
that they made it (laughs).
So did your mom then put you backon the bus or drive you halfway
and put you back on the bus?
So she would drive halfway andthen put us back on the bus.
Wow.
Wow.
And your brother, was he a companionat this point or was he an antagonist?
He was definitely an antagonist.
(14:58):
He was the one in charge on thesetrips, but he was more of the big
brother bully kind of relationship.
Wow.
Wow.
I love the story.
The story is people canidentify with that, right?
Mm-hmm.
When did you first say enoughand try to get into recovery?
Or did something happenwhere you got forced into it?
(15:20):
It was more, a couple of instanceswere more forced, I would say.
The incident before I went intoinpatient rehab, I was at my
worst, I was drinking all day.
I had to have alcohol in mysystem, otherwise I would go
through severe withdrawals.
And I was intoxicated at work and ended uppassing out in my car on my lunch break.
(15:44):
Wow.
So the security guard had tried to wakeme up and had called the ambulance.
It was a whole scene.
I was very fortunate thatmy work was supportive in
helping me get into recovery.
I did an intensive outpatienttreatment at that time.
Was doing well and stayed soberfor just about to my 30 days and
(16:06):
treated myself to a Long Island tocelebrate and lost that recovery.
(laughs) And then just kind of a fewweeks of just on and off the wig and
going to the hospital for withdrawals.
And then I was finally able to get intoan inpatient facility so that it was
somewhat forced, but it was, I had beenwanting and knowing I needed help for
(16:31):
probably a good year prior to that point.
A lot of people take multiple times.
Multiple at bats beforethey get a hit, right?
Yeah.
Talk about that.
What do you think youmissed the first few times?
Or what do you think you didn'tget that it didn't stick or,
you know what I'm asking?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a combination of thing.
(16:51):
You are surrounded with thepeople, places and things.
You know, you have to kindof change all of that.
You can't just take away the substanceand try to go back to your normal life.
So I think that is a hugepart of it as well as the why.
Try figuring out the why of whyyou're using what you're trying
to numb, what you're trying toavoid, those types of things.
(17:14):
And until you kind of discover what yourwhy is and try to work through that.
Then I don't think that the, theaddiction part can go away as well.
Well, okay.
So talk about that becausethat's really interesting.
So now you're, let'ssay you're sober, right?
Mm-hmm.
And all of these feelings just comewashing over you like a tsunami.
(17:40):
And where's your experiencecoping with them?
Where's your role modelsfor coping with them?
Yeah, none.
So, right.
How do you learn that?
For me, I was very fortunatewith my first job out of recovery
was with Journey Mental Health.
So I was able to like fullyimmerse myself in recovery.
It was my work, it was my life after work.
(18:01):
I was able to surround myselfwith positive role models.
I really dug into trying tolearn what's wrong with me.
So I just went into researching and kindof self-taught myself a lot of things
and then just with the experience ofmy own employment and things like that.
(18:24):
But not everyone is that fortunate.
Having a good support system is huge.
So whether that be a therapist oryour recovery groups, things like
that, you have to surround yourselfwith a different type of people now.
You mentioned the TV showsfrom the eighties you grew up
with and then your own family.
(18:44):
How do you learn how tohave a healthy relationship?
Lots of... (laughs)
Trial and error?
Yes.
My husband and I have been togetherfor 12 years now, and he was
with me when I was at my worst.
He helped me get better has stoodby me through everything, but
we are both learning how to havehealthy relationships together.
(19:06):
A lot of it is learning to havethose difficult discussions.
Knowing that allrelationships do take work.
It's not just your romanticrelationships, it's your friendships,
it's your coworkers, things like that.
Any type of relationship you want,you have to put in some sort of work.
How long did it take you, did youfeel like you had to walk on eggshells
(19:27):
because of all the abandonment you hadfelt and the unworthiness growing up?
And how long before you could trustthat he wasn't gonna bolt out the door
or, or that you weren't gonna bolt out?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, he would say, I love you,and I would be like, are you sure?
Yeah.
Right.
That was my automatic response.
Probably a few years into mysobriety is when I really was like.
(19:49):
Okay.
He really means it like he's not goinganywhere, but it was so much of my
foundation was that I don't matter.
So it's hard to unlearn those things.
Did he also come, canI ask about his family?
Yeah, he his parents are divorced as well.
Definitely not as toxic of anupbringing as I had, but I think with
(20:11):
just the, his own parents divorce,he, I'm his second wife, so he
had his own, his a divorce prior.
So I think we've had somesimilar situations, but.
And he is seven years older thanme, so he has a little bit more
of a maturity level than I do.
(laughs)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, what did you think thefirst time he complimented you?
(20:36):
That he wanted to get some.
(laughs)
(laughs) Interesting.
I was so, you know, I'm so used tolike, my mind was still in that...
Manipulative, right?
Right.
You know, like if I want a man tolove me, I need to have sex with him.
Yeah.
Was where my brain was at at that point.
And he is actually one of, he was thefirst relationship that I didn't like
(20:57):
rush into having sex with, it was kindof at the point in my life where I was
like, nope I need to take things slow and.
Here we are 12 years later.
Wow.
And and how many kids?
We have four.
We're a blended family, so he hasthree sons and I have a daughter.
Oh, that's great.
And they're all, all teenagers.
Really?
Yeah.
(21:18):
Those of you watching on YouTube.
I'm so bad with ages.
It's just so sad.
You have a teenage daughter?
Yep.
Wow.
She, she's 16.
How old?
16.
Oh my gosh.
Talk about her for a second.
Not disclosing stuff.
But, given how you grew up.
(21:38):
Yeah.
What did you do so that she didn't gothrough the same insults and sarcasm?
Well, it didn't start that way.
One of the things that I hearda lot growing up was, you know,
I brought you into this world.
I can take you out.
And so I would jokingly say that toher and things like that, but it's.
I think, you know, until weknow better, we can't do better.
(22:03):
So once we start knowing thatthings are not necessarily
okay, then we can change 'em.
And I feel a huge part of myparenting is based off of what.
I, the opposite of what I had is Iwanna be the mom that I didn't have.
So I really put in effort of tryingto make, have conversations and check
(22:26):
in with her and things like that.
The things that I didn't get growingup, I try to make an effort to do.
But it's not easy 'cause it doesn'tcome natural when you, you know,
Not even now?
It, it does now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Does she believe you nowwhen you compliment her?
Yes.
(laughs)
That's awesome.
What do you think?
(22:47):
I think it's intellectually lazy.
I love what you just said.
Once you know better,you can do better, right?
Mm-hmm.
There's a lot of peoplewho just go, oh, well.
Yeah.
And use it as an excuseto not do better, right?
Yeah.
And that's lazy,
Right.
It takes work, right?
It does.
Yeah.
And it goes for everything,nobody knows everything.
(23:09):
Nobody knows what they're doing.
We're all just tryingto take it day by day.
And once we know things,then we can do better.
And just be better all around.
Yeah.
So are you still in contact withyour folks and your brother and
how, how's that relationship?
I have very minimal contact.
At the beginning of my recovery Iwanted to kind of discuss things
(23:30):
about my childhood, and it was alot of it was just shut down of, you
know, it's the past, get over it.
They didn't really wanna lookat themselves or their roles
and what I was going through.
And so it just kind of became.
We just don't talk about it.
And it's a very superficial relationship.
And you know, we see each other once ayear at Christmas and that's about it.
(23:54):
And honestly, it has been betterfor my mental health that way.
At the beginning I would reach out and,you know, text and not get responses
back and that would be really painful.
But I'm at a place now whereI know that they need to take
care of themselves as well.
And we all just need to dowhat's best for ourselves.
(24:16):
So you set the boundaries?
Yes.
And they did not necessarilyappreciate those.
Try to guilt you?
Yeah.
Yep.
My mom more so than anyone else.
Yeah.
How do you keep them from guiltingyou, because that's a discussion we've
had a number of times here, which isthat whole blood is thicker than water
is a lot of garbage in a lot of ways.
(24:38):
Right.
It's not easy.
It's still like that they're your family.
You still wanna fit in andbelong and feel loved by them.
But I feel that i'm at a spot nowwhere I know that they're where
they're at, and that's okay.
And I just need to do what's best formyself and respect them where they're
at, and respect myself where I'm at.
(25:00):
Yeah.
So you passed them inmaturity a while back?
Yeah, I believe so.
(laughs)
(laughs) That's great.
Well, and then one of your ways ofcoping was you began to journal, right?
Yeah.
Talk about your journaling.
What did journaling do for you?
So journaling really just kindof helped me get out of my head.
I was really good atcatastrophizing and being like,
(25:21):
you know, one bad thing happened.
It's a whole bad day.
Being able to take a break and kind ofwork through my day and realize that
like, no, that was just one bad moment.
It wasn't a bad day.
It really helped rewire my brain and getrid of those automatic negative thoughts.
And now my brain likeautomatically goes to the positive.
After doing this for so long.
(25:43):
And so you ended up writingthe journaling book, and it's a
step-by-step go-to guide, right?
Yep.
And it focuses on what?
Gratitude, affirmations.
There's a reflection portion of kindof looking back at your day, looking
at the good things that happened.
How did you take careof yourself that day?
It really helped me also getinto a routine, which I feel is
(26:06):
very important in my wellbeing.
Kind of how did you takecare of yourself for the day?
I feel a lot of us put ourselveslast, so making sure that we kind
of reflect back on what we did forourselves and how we took care of
ourselves is important as well.
That's great.
And do you do it every day?
Give or take?
(26:27):
(laughs) I try.
There's some nights where I'll dothe journal I have set up is kind of
a short little part in the morningand a short little part at night.
There's some nights I just go tobed without even looking at it.
There's some weekends I don't do it.
But most days I do it.
I ask a lot of questions about this'cause I'm not that person, right?
Yeah.
That's not my personality.
(26:48):
It's never been.
I tried it and it didn't work for me,but I like people who are that organized
and can keep those things together.
I'm much more burst of energy,get a lot done and kick back.
So doing that daily stuffwouldn't work for me.
Yeah.
I think one thing that has helpedfor it to work for me was that it's,
(27:08):
it's only meant to be a few minutes.
I was coming across some otherjournals that I was doing that.
It was too much.
Like I wanna just be able tojust do it for a couple minutes
and then move on with my day.
I don't have a half hour every morning tosit and think about a variety of things.
I have a billion other thingsI have to do in the morning, so
(27:31):
it didn't fit into my schedule.
So I ended up kind of creatingsomething that worked for me.
You don't have the time to curl up withyour feet under you with a cup of hot tea.
No.
(laughs) I already get up at five.
I can't get up any earlier.
(laughs) I know every time I see somebodydoing that, I'm like, well, you can't
have too many problems then right?
Right.
(27:51):
And I found this out too.
You're a certified peer specialist.
Yeah.
I became a certified peerspecialist back in 2018.
Back then there wasn't too many peersupport specialists in the recovery teams.
So it's really nice to see that it'sbecoming more popular in recovery teams.
I haven't been practicingin the last few years.
(28:12):
I had a job with the VA and I'm nota veteran, so I wasn't able to do
peer support through the VA. So it'ssomething that I would like to get
back into maybe someday, but in themeantime, I'm trying to help in other
ways with like my journal and my book.
Yeah.
And you're writing a book?
Yes.
Yes.
I am working on writing my memoirwhich will kind of go through my life
(28:36):
and then go into my brick theory.
So, which is essentially that weare all created brick by brick.
Everything from, every interaction wehave, everything that's been passed
down to us, everything creates us,you know, even down to like a cellular
level if you really wanna get into it.
We're literally built brick by brick.
(28:58):
And kind of going into ourinteractions with others too, like
are you helping build someone upor are you tearing someone down?
Love that.
Yeah.
So I try to carry that with mewith any interactions I have.
Like, am I helping build this personup and making their lives better,
or am I somehow destroying them.
(29:20):
Yeah.
It's a hard time to build people up.
I mean, it's an easy thing to do,but boy, are we surrounded with
tearing people down, aren't we?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, just even simple interactionswith people at like the grocery store.
Yeah.
You're the person checking you out.
Have eye contact with them, smile,thank them, you know, chat with them.
A lot of people are not doingthose things as often and you
(29:42):
know, it tears people down.
If someone already is having lowself-esteem and then someone comes up
to them and doesn't treat them well,it just knocks 'em down even more.
Well, when you get yourbook done, let me know.
Oh, for sure.
We'll publicize it and I'll haveyou back down and we'll talk a
little bit more about the book.
Yeah, I would love that.
(30:03):
This has been great.
I really appreciate you being so open.
I think it helps a lot.
I've taken a bunch of people tomeetings over the years and it's
so funny when somebody says,how did they know all about me?
And it's like, becauseit's so in common, right?
We all have so much in common.
Yeah.
I think the more we can share with others,the more that we can heal each other.
(30:25):
That's a great takeoff statement that is.
Well, thanks for yourinspiring story, your honesty.
And for those of you listening,watching I hope that you find love and
courage and support wherever you are.
Thanks for listening, be safe, andif you're struggling, keep trying.
Just keep building it one brick at a time.
Yeah, one brick at a time.
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction,brought to you by Westwords Consulting,
the Kenosha County Substance Use DisorderCoalition, and by a grant from the State
of Wisconsin's Dose of Reality RealTalks reminding you that opioids are
powerful drugs and that one pill can kill.
I'm Mike McGowan.
(00:32):
Libby Wipperfurth grew up in a home ofconflicting boundaries and messages.
The turmoil led to deep depression,anxiety, years of alcoholism.
Hard to believe you look so young.
After several attempts tostay sober failed, she found
herself at a tipping point.
She's with us today to talkabout how she put her life back
together brick by brick by brick.
(00:55):
Libby is a mom, a wife, a peer specialist,and an author whose book, Daily Journal
Building A Strong Foundation One BrickAt A Time is linked on the podcast blurb.
Welcome Libby.
Hey, Mike.
I'm grateful to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Well see, isn't that nice?
That's part of yourjournaling book, right?
You're grateful.
So I always ask this first, howlong have you been in recovery?
(01:18):
I just celebrated nine yearsalcohol free on May 18th, so
that is 3,309 days as of today.
It seems very long when you put itout in days, but it doesn't seem that
long ago that my life was completelydifferent and you know, it was hard.
I didn't, most days I didn't think Iwould make it through the day, and now
(01:39):
I'm living the life that I couldn't haveeven imagined at that point in my life.
Well, when you talk about recoveringbrick by brick doing it one day at
a time, keeping track of the days,I think is a really good idea.
Yeah.
And I mean especially at the beginning,you're going second by second.
Yes.
You know, just trying to get through.
(01:59):
And so each day we make itto another day is a good day.
I don't know if you've probablyheard this, I'm sure people who are
listening have heard various stories.
But one of the more remarkable ones, whenI was a young man doing family therapy, I
had a woman say to me that she literallystood in her kitchen, set the oven timer
for five minutes and held onto the stove.
(02:21):
Oh wow.
Yeah.
And then reset it, reset it, reset it.
So, you know, recovery can be a challenge.
Well, let's go back.
I listened to a talk you have on YouTube,and I flinched when I heard you talk
about your family's love language.
What was it?
It was a love languageof sarcasm and insults.
(02:41):
Oh God.
Yeah.
That, that's cringe worthy, but Iwondered when I heard that, I went, okay.
Ditto.
Right.
And, you know, it's all fun and games,but, you know, words hurt and you
know, when you're growing up likethat, it's kind of, it takes a toll
on your self-esteem and you're worthy.
It does, it does.
You know, when Libby, I work withkids and I ask them all the time how
(03:04):
old they were when they realize thedifference between funny and mean.
And they all say aroundthe age of four or five.
So the two words I reallyhate are just kidding.
Yeah.
You know, and when a dad or mom says,just kidding, eh, it doesn't, it still
stings and you remember it, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It can be very hurtful.
(03:24):
I feel like a huge part of ourpopulation grew up that way.
It was kind of the norm.
Even like the TV shows and thingslike that in the eighties, nineties,
like Roseanne, Married with Children.
Those were our family shows.
And it was very dysfunctional families.
Oh, God, I've talked about that there.
It's just so unhealthy.
(03:45):
And then people picked it upand even say, I'm bilingual.
I speak sarcasm as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So who was it?
Was it your mom, dad, both, your brother?
Mainly my father.
I spent a lot of time with my grandparentsas well which was my father's parents.
That, yeah, just a lot of thatjoking around, sarcasm, but you
know, there's always a littlelayer of truth with those jokes.
(04:07):
Yeah.
Did it get when they were drinking?
Mm-hmm.
Did it get a little bit quicker?
Meaner?
Yeah, but it was always with a laugh.
So you're not being mean.
It's fun, you know, don't be mad,it was just a joke and, yeah.
Yeah.
I remember you know, if you saysomething, especially depending
(04:30):
your age of development, especiallyto a young girl from a dad,
that's really impactful, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There was an instance where I got myfirst sports bra (laughs) and I was made
to try it on in front of the family, andthen I got ridiculed for having mosquito
bites and that, you know, that whole,you know, experience has stuck with me.
(04:55):
And, you know, just all those littledigs can really do damage on someone.
Oh God, that's, yeah, I'd be willingto bet there's people listening
to this, just shaking theirhead right now in the same way.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I've done numerous podcastswith people, experts, people who work with
folks who are therapists, who have allsaid that many, many times shame is put
(05:18):
on us by those who are supposed to carethe most about us, and it affects you.
So then I heard you say that therefore.
One of your foundational bricks?
Yeah.
Was that you just don't matter?
Yeah.
I didn't feel that Ifit in with my family.
(05:39):
I didn't feel like I belongedwith, you know, kind of a lot of
the jokes and things like that.
I just didn't feel emotionallyand mentally taken care of.
So yeah, I just felt like I didn't matter.
And growing up feeling that, you know.
Your family is your, everything.
You know nothing else but your family.
So to feel that you don't belong inyour own family was just devastating.
(06:01):
I had no sense of who I was,who I was supposed to be.
Just kind of felt very lost and...
Not real confident?
Yeah.
Kind of nowhere to turn.
So predictably, right?
Mm-hmm.
When did you first start drinking?
Alcohol was a huge part of just theday-to-day life in our household.
(06:22):
Both my parents are daily drinkers.
My grandparents aredaily drinkers as well.
The first time I remember liketaking a drink on my own, kind
of sneaking a drink was about 12.
You know, every householdhad alcohol in it.
There was a point in middle school thatme and a group of friends, even like, had
screwdrivers before we went to school.
In middle school?
(06:43):
Yeah.
And like, you know, parents justthought we were taking our cups of
orange juice on our walk to school.
You know, it was just, it was, just so youknow, we're in Wisconsin, "We've Been Out
Drinking Your State Since 1948." Right?
Yeah.
Right.
I'm laughing because anytime I seea teenager with orange juice, my
assumption is it's not orange juice.
(07:04):
Right.
Yeah.
I never liked orange juice, exceptfor if there was alcohol in it.
So.
(laughs)
Well, you said they were, youwere around it all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And your first drink was a 12.
Well, what about earlier?
Were you allowed to sip?
Did they give you sips?
Yeah, we would've likesips every now and then.
We did a lot of, my cousins andI kind of like pretending to
(07:25):
drink and all of those things.
We would have our sparklingcider you know, and all the
holidays, things like that.
I used to go to the bar quite a bit withmy grandparents and I'd get my kitty
cocktail and they'd have their drinksand, you know, I was just kind of.
That's the way it was.
You drank when you were happy,you drank when you were sad.
(07:45):
If there was something tocelebrate, let's get a drink.
Oh, you're having a bad day.
Let's get a drink.
It was just, that was how you lived
And coped.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I chuckled.
Your grandparents had a phrase for,you made like a lot of our guests,
you made drinks for your grandparents.
What did they call?
I don't remember now.
Yeah, they would say, fix my liver.
(08:07):
Fix my liver.
Yep.
My god.
Time to go make them a drink.
And, you know, they were happyand I felt I was being a good kid.
I was doing what I was told.
Which was I think a big part ofmy upbringing was, I felt that I
had to do as I was told, I wasn'tgoing to be loved or accepted
unless I was doing, as I was told.
(08:29):
So I, you know, got the, the goodgirl syndrome and just if I was
doing what I was told I was okay.
What was their drink of choice?
Typically like brandy and water,so it was pretty easy to make.
Yes.
And for those of you who aren'tin Wisconsin, we are the brandy
capital of the world, so.
Yeah.
(08:49):
Not unfamiliar.
Yeah.
And then as a teenager, you hitthe teenage trifecta, right?
Yeah.
Drinking, cutting, and eating problems.
Yeah, I would abuse diet pills.
That was back when they hadthe, was that ephedrine.
Sure yeah.
And then just really disordered eatingwith dieting and things like that.
(09:13):
Later on, after high school, Iwas a bulimic for a little bit.
And a lot of it was like, especiallykind of like the cutting in
that it was, I wasn't able tonecessarily numb always with alcohol.
Mm.
There was other things I wouldfind a way to numb myself with.
Did it work?
Oh God, no!
(09:34):
(laughs) If anything, it, youknow, it only made it worse.
I mean it worked temporarily untilthe buzz would wear off and then I
would end up feeling worse 'causethose feelings were still there.
And then on top of that, then you'rehaving either the hangover or the
withdrawal symptoms and things like that.
And with like alcohol being a depressant,it made my depression even worse.
(09:57):
And so we're talking throughmiddle school now and high school.
Yeah.
Can I ask, where did you cut?
Arms, legs?
Typically actually my abdominal area.
Mm mm.
I feel I was very talented atkeeping a lot of my secrets hidden.
That's why I was asking.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So nobody knew.
No.
(10:18):
Did people suspect?
I think they knew or suspectedlike the drinking and some possible
drug use, but nothing else.
Well, but, but who were you hanging with?
They had to, you know.
My friends they drank and usedsubstances as well, but I kept a lot
of the other stuff just to myself.
(10:38):
So even your friends you werehanging with didn't realize you were
cutting or necessarily bulimic or?
No.
I didn't share much with others.
Which that's a hugepart of my recovery now.
I feel talking is the best thing.
But it was just, you didn'ttalk about things back then.
You know?
It was just the time of therewasn't many divorced families.
(10:59):
There was, you know, the mentalhealth, all the stigma around that.
We, you just didn't talk about things so.
A lot of my friendships were very, thesuperficial level where you didn't get
deep into what was going on at home.
It was, you know, we had funtogether, we'd party together.
But then other than that, therewas not that deep connection.
That's always such an interestingturn to me to partying, right?
(11:20):
Yeah.
It almost like, oh yeah, it's,it's a good thing right to party.
Yeah.
And then in adulthood you addedblackouts and promiscuous.
Yeah.
Right.
Yep.
Yeah, I was also taking antidepressantsand anti-anxiety medication
which a lot of those you're notsupposed to have alcohol with.
(11:41):
So yeah, I was kind of like a zombie andI would just not remember a lot of things.
You know, I would spend a lot of mymornings hungover trying to figure
out what I did or said the nightbefore, you know, going through my
text messages and hoping I didn't,you know, no one's mad at me and.
It's just, it's a lot to, it just addsonto the anxiety and the depression.
(12:05):
It's a vicious cycle of,okay, what did I do wrong now?
[inaudible] Then you start drinking again.
There's a lot of people who are maybelistening who have never had a blackout.
Yeah.
So, and they can't fathomhaving one and having another.
So do you remember your first one?
Was it when you were young or?
(12:27):
I would probably more into likeyoung twenties, I would say.
And did it scare you?
A little bit, but I feel a lot of itwas that I just felt it was just normal.
Hmm.
That it was, you know, oh, youjust drank too much that night.
Maybe next time don't drink as much.
Don't you don't drinkhard alcohol that time.
(12:48):
Yeah, it wasn't the behavior,it's the alcohol, right?
Yeah.
So I would come up with excuses ortry something different next time.
Along the way your folks broke up.
Yeah.
So my parents separated whenI was probably about eight.
It was told to us that my mom had anaffair and was leaving us for this other
(13:11):
person and wanted nothing to do with us.
So that was part of my large foundationof not feeling like I mattered.
My own mother doesn't want me, and I don'tknow the full story, things like that.
But you know, as a child, that's whatmy narrative was, was that my mom
doesn't love me and I don't matter.
(13:31):
That relationship endedup not working out.
And then she wanted to have somecustody with us, but she lived in
a different state at that point.
So it was a lot of back and forthand feeling forced to go somewhere
to be with someone who I didn'tthink wanted to be with me.
It was just, it was rough as a childkind of feeling like where do I belong?
(13:54):
You know, no one loves me.
Now I have to miss out on all thistime with my friends to go hang out
with this person that doesn't love me.
When I heard you talk aboutthat you and your brother got,
your dad just stuck on a bus?
Yep.
So by the time she was outta statethere, they had a very toxic divorce
and weren't able to co-parent very well.
(14:16):
So he was tired of havingto meet her halfway and you
know, an hour and a half away.
So he would put us on a bus and thatwould take us there and yeah, I can't
fathom doing that now with my children.
But (laughs).
Yeah.
This was no cell phones, no.
No Life 360.
Yeah.
No, nothing.
(14:37):
It was just like, all right,see you Sunday, and hope
that they made it (laughs).
So did your mom then put you backon the bus or drive you halfway
and put you back on the bus?
So she would drive halfway andthen put us back on the bus.
Wow.
Wow.
And your brother, was he a companionat this point or was he an antagonist?
He was definitely an antagonist.
(14:58):
He was the one in charge on thesetrips, but he was more of the big
brother bully kind of relationship.
Wow.
Wow.
I love the story.
The story is people canidentify with that, right?
Mm-hmm.
When did you first say enoughand try to get into recovery?
Or did something happenwhere you got forced into it?
(15:20):
It was more, a couple of instanceswere more forced, I would say.
The incident before I went intoinpatient rehab, I was at my
worst, I was drinking all day.
I had to have alcohol in mysystem, otherwise I would go
through severe withdrawals.
And I was intoxicated at work and ended uppassing out in my car on my lunch break.
(15:44):
Wow.
So the security guard had tried to wakeme up and had called the ambulance.
It was a whole scene.
I was very fortunate thatmy work was supportive in
helping me get into recovery.
I did an intensive outpatienttreatment at that time.
Was doing well and stayed soberfor just about to my 30 days and
(16:06):
treated myself to a Long Island tocelebrate and lost that recovery.
(laughs) And then just kind of a fewweeks of just on and off the wig and
going to the hospital for withdrawals.
And then I was finally able to get intoan inpatient facility so that it was
somewhat forced, but it was, I had beenwanting and knowing I needed help for
(16:31):
probably a good year prior to that point.
A lot of people take multiple times.
Multiple at bats beforethey get a hit, right?
Yeah.
Talk about that.
What do you think youmissed the first few times?
Or what do you think you didn'tget that it didn't stick or,
you know what I'm asking?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a combination of thing.
(16:51):
You are surrounded with thepeople, places and things.
You know, you have to kindof change all of that.
You can't just take away the substanceand try to go back to your normal life.
So I think that is a hugepart of it as well as the why.
Try figuring out the why of whyyou're using what you're trying
to numb, what you're trying toavoid, those types of things.
(17:14):
And until you kind of discover what yourwhy is and try to work through that.
Then I don't think that the, theaddiction part can go away as well.
Well, okay.
So talk about that becausethat's really interesting.
So now you're, let'ssay you're sober, right?
Mm-hmm.
And all of these feelings just comewashing over you like a tsunami.
(17:40):
And where's your experiencecoping with them?
Where's your role modelsfor coping with them?
Yeah, none.
So, right.
How do you learn that?
For me, I was very fortunatewith my first job out of recovery
was with Journey Mental Health.
So I was able to like fullyimmerse myself in recovery.
It was my work, it was my life after work.
(18:01):
I was able to surround myselfwith positive role models.
I really dug into trying tolearn what's wrong with me.
So I just went into researching and kindof self-taught myself a lot of things
and then just with the experience ofmy own employment and things like that.
(18:24):
But not everyone is that fortunate.
Having a good support system is huge.
So whether that be a therapist oryour recovery groups, things like
that, you have to surround yourselfwith a different type of people now.
You mentioned the TV showsfrom the eighties you grew up
with and then your own family.
(18:44):
How do you learn how tohave a healthy relationship?
Lots of... (laughs)
Trial and error?
Yes.
My husband and I have been togetherfor 12 years now, and he was
with me when I was at my worst.
He helped me get better has stoodby me through everything, but
we are both learning how to havehealthy relationships together.
(19:06):
A lot of it is learning to havethose difficult discussions.
Knowing that allrelationships do take work.
It's not just your romanticrelationships, it's your friendships,
it's your coworkers, things like that.
Any type of relationship you want,you have to put in some sort of work.
How long did it take you, did youfeel like you had to walk on eggshells
(19:27):
because of all the abandonment you hadfelt and the unworthiness growing up?
And how long before you could trustthat he wasn't gonna bolt out the door
or, or that you weren't gonna bolt out?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, he would say, I love you,and I would be like, are you sure?
Yeah.
Right.
That was my automatic response.
Probably a few years into mysobriety is when I really was like.
(19:49):
Okay.
He really means it like he's not goinganywhere, but it was so much of my
foundation was that I don't matter.
So it's hard to unlearn those things.
Did he also come, canI ask about his family?
Yeah, he his parents are divorced as well.
Definitely not as toxic of anupbringing as I had, but I think with
(20:11):
just the, his own parents divorce,he, I'm his second wife, so he
had his own, his a divorce prior.
So I think we've had somesimilar situations, but.
And he is seven years older thanme, so he has a little bit more
of a maturity level than I do.
(laughs)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, what did you think thefirst time he complimented you?
(20:36):
That he wanted to get some.
(laughs)
(laughs) Interesting.
I was so, you know, I'm so used tolike, my mind was still in that...
Manipulative, right?
Right.
You know, like if I want a man tolove me, I need to have sex with him.
Yeah.
Was where my brain was at at that point.
And he is actually one of, he was thefirst relationship that I didn't like
(20:57):
rush into having sex with, it was kindof at the point in my life where I was
like, nope I need to take things slow and.
Here we are 12 years later.
Wow.
And and how many kids?
We have four.
We're a blended family, so he hasthree sons and I have a daughter.
Oh, that's great.
And they're all, all teenagers.
Really?
Yeah.
(21:18):
Those of you watching on YouTube.
I'm so bad with ages.
It's just so sad.
You have a teenage daughter?
Yep.
Wow.
She, she's 16.
How old?
16.
Oh my gosh.
Talk about her for a second.
Not disclosing stuff.
But, given how you grew up.
(21:38):
Yeah.
What did you do so that she didn't gothrough the same insults and sarcasm?
Well, it didn't start that way.
One of the things that I hearda lot growing up was, you know,
I brought you into this world.
I can take you out.
And so I would jokingly say that toher and things like that, but it's.
I think, you know, until weknow better, we can't do better.
(22:03):
So once we start knowing thatthings are not necessarily
okay, then we can change 'em.
And I feel a huge part of myparenting is based off of what.
I, the opposite of what I had is Iwanna be the mom that I didn't have.
So I really put in effort of tryingto make, have conversations and check
(22:26):
in with her and things like that.
The things that I didn't get growingup, I try to make an effort to do.
But it's not easy 'cause it doesn'tcome natural when you, you know,
Not even now?
It, it does now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Does she believe you nowwhen you compliment her?
Yes.
(laughs)
That's awesome.
What do you think?
(22:47):
I think it's intellectually lazy.
I love what you just said.
Once you know better,you can do better, right?
Mm-hmm.
There's a lot of peoplewho just go, oh, well.
Yeah.
And use it as an excuseto not do better, right?
Yeah.
And that's lazy,
Right.
It takes work, right?
It does.
Yeah.
And it goes for everything,nobody knows everything.
(23:09):
Nobody knows what they're doing.
We're all just tryingto take it day by day.
And once we know things,then we can do better.
And just be better all around.
Yeah.
So are you still in contact withyour folks and your brother and
how, how's that relationship?
I have very minimal contact.
At the beginning of my recovery Iwanted to kind of discuss things
(23:30):
about my childhood, and it was alot of it was just shut down of, you
know, it's the past, get over it.
They didn't really wanna lookat themselves or their roles
and what I was going through.
And so it just kind of became.
We just don't talk about it.
And it's a very superficial relationship.
And you know, we see each other once ayear at Christmas and that's about it.
(23:54):
And honestly, it has been betterfor my mental health that way.
At the beginning I would reach out and,you know, text and not get responses
back and that would be really painful.
But I'm at a place now whereI know that they need to take
care of themselves as well.
And we all just need to dowhat's best for ourselves.
(24:16):
So you set the boundaries?
Yes.
And they did not necessarilyappreciate those.
Try to guilt you?
Yeah.
Yep.
My mom more so than anyone else.
Yeah.
How do you keep them from guiltingyou, because that's a discussion we've
had a number of times here, which isthat whole blood is thicker than water
is a lot of garbage in a lot of ways.
(24:38):
Right.
It's not easy.
It's still like that they're your family.
You still wanna fit in andbelong and feel loved by them.
But I feel that i'm at a spot nowwhere I know that they're where
they're at, and that's okay.
And I just need to do what's best formyself and respect them where they're
at, and respect myself where I'm at.
(25:00):
Yeah.
So you passed them inmaturity a while back?
Yeah, I believe so.
(laughs)
(laughs) That's great.
Well, and then one of your ways ofcoping was you began to journal, right?
Yeah.
Talk about your journaling.
What did journaling do for you?
So journaling really just kindof helped me get out of my head.
I was really good atcatastrophizing and being like,
(25:21):
you know, one bad thing happened.
It's a whole bad day.
Being able to take a break and kind ofwork through my day and realize that
like, no, that was just one bad moment.
It wasn't a bad day.
It really helped rewire my brain and getrid of those automatic negative thoughts.
And now my brain likeautomatically goes to the positive.
After doing this for so long.
(25:43):
And so you ended up writingthe journaling book, and it's a
step-by-step go-to guide, right?
Yep.
And it focuses on what?
Gratitude, affirmations.
There's a reflection portion of kindof looking back at your day, looking
at the good things that happened.
How did you take careof yourself that day?
It really helped me also getinto a routine, which I feel is
(26:06):
very important in my wellbeing.
Kind of how did you takecare of yourself for the day?
I feel a lot of us put ourselveslast, so making sure that we kind
of reflect back on what we did forourselves and how we took care of
ourselves is important as well.
That's great.
And do you do it every day?
Give or take?
(26:27):
(laughs) I try.
There's some nights where I'll dothe journal I have set up is kind of
a short little part in the morningand a short little part at night.
There's some nights I just go tobed without even looking at it.
There's some weekends I don't do it.
But most days I do it.
I ask a lot of questions about this'cause I'm not that person, right?
Yeah.
That's not my personality.
(26:48):
It's never been.
I tried it and it didn't work for me,but I like people who are that organized
and can keep those things together.
I'm much more burst of energy,get a lot done and kick back.
So doing that daily stuffwouldn't work for me.
Yeah.
I think one thing that has helpedfor it to work for me was that it's,
(27:08):
it's only meant to be a few minutes.
I was coming across some otherjournals that I was doing that.
It was too much.
Like I wanna just be able tojust do it for a couple minutes
and then move on with my day.
I don't have a half hour every morning tosit and think about a variety of things.
I have a billion other thingsI have to do in the morning, so
(27:31):
it didn't fit into my schedule.
So I ended up kind of creatingsomething that worked for me.
You don't have the time to curl up withyour feet under you with a cup of hot tea.
No.
(laughs) I already get up at five.
I can't get up any earlier.
(laughs) I know every time I see somebodydoing that, I'm like, well, you can't
have too many problems then right?
Right.
(27:51):
And I found this out too.
You're a certified peer specialist.
Yeah.
I became a certified peerspecialist back in 2018.
Back then there wasn't too many peersupport specialists in the recovery teams.
So it's really nice to see that it'sbecoming more popular in recovery teams.
I haven't been practicingin the last few years.
(28:12):
I had a job with the VA and I'm nota veteran, so I wasn't able to do
peer support through the VA. So it'ssomething that I would like to get
back into maybe someday, but in themeantime, I'm trying to help in other
ways with like my journal and my book.
Yeah.
And you're writing a book?
Yes.
Yes.
I am working on writing my memoirwhich will kind of go through my life
(28:36):
and then go into my brick theory.
So, which is essentially that weare all created brick by brick.
Everything from, every interaction wehave, everything that's been passed
down to us, everything creates us,you know, even down to like a cellular
level if you really wanna get into it.
We're literally built brick by brick.
(28:58):
And kind of going into ourinteractions with others too, like
are you helping build someone upor are you tearing someone down?
Love that.
Yeah.
So I try to carry that with mewith any interactions I have.
Like, am I helping build this personup and making their lives better,
or am I somehow destroying them.
(29:20):
Yeah.
It's a hard time to build people up.
I mean, it's an easy thing to do,but boy, are we surrounded with
tearing people down, aren't we?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, just even simple interactionswith people at like the grocery store.
Yeah.
You're the person checking you out.
Have eye contact with them, smile,thank them, you know, chat with them.
A lot of people are not doingthose things as often and you
(29:42):
know, it tears people down.
If someone already is having lowself-esteem and then someone comes up
to them and doesn't treat them well,it just knocks 'em down even more.
Well, when you get yourbook done, let me know.
Oh, for sure.
We'll publicize it and I'll haveyou back down and we'll talk a
little bit more about the book.
Yeah, I would love that.
(30:03):
This has been great.
I really appreciate you being so open.
I think it helps a lot.
I've taken a bunch of people tomeetings over the years and it's
so funny when somebody says,how did they know all about me?
And it's like, becauseit's so in common, right?
We all have so much in common.
Yeah.
I think the more we can share with others,the more that we can heal each other.
(30:25):
That's a great takeoff statement that is.
Well, thanks for yourinspiring story, your honesty.
And for those of you listening,watching I hope that you find love and
courage and support wherever you are.
Thanks for listening, be safe, andif you're struggling, keep trying.
Just keep building it one brick at a time.
Yeah, one brick at a time.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.