December 18, 2024 • 27 mins
Losing her father early in her life created a trauma that took Gail Taylor on a lifelong journey full of curveballs. Gail talks about turning that trauma into inspiration. Initially working in finance and experiencing remarkable success as an investment advisor, Gail fearlessly embarked on a profound second act in life that transformed her into a prolific songwriter, motivational speaker, and philanthropic force. She is the author of Curveballs: Unlocking Your Potential Through Personal Growth and Inspirational Music. Gail Taylor’s work and contact information can be found at https://www.gailtaylormusic.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:12):
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction, brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
Not everybody's second act in life is asimpactful as the one of my guests today.
Gail Taylor had remarkable successas an investment advisor and
(00:33):
extensive expertise in finance.
She then embarked on a profoundsecond act that transformed her into
a prolific songwriter, motivationalspeaker, and philanthropic force.
Her new book, just a delightful newbook, Curveballs, is all about self
discovery and chasing dreams with personalstories and tools that shaped her past.
(00:55):
She focuses on embracingauthenticity and how living with
purpose and passion is achievable.
Welcome Gail.
Gail (01:02):
Thank you, and thank you so much for having me.
I'm really honored to be here.
Mike (01:06):
Well, that's great, and you're, we're talking, you're
in where did you say again?
Somewhere in Canada, right?
Gail (01:10):
I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, so I'm right above Montana.
Mike (01:15):
And, and how's the weather there today?
Gail (01:17):
It's not bad.
Not bad.
It's not, it's not a warm day.
We're starting to get some winterweather here, a little bit of
snow on the ground, but I don'tmind the cold, so it's all good.
Mike (01:30):
Yeah, when you said not bad, we just got a bit of the
Canadian in there as well.
Well, Gail, I want to talk about yourbook, obviously, but before we get into
it, I mentioned in the introductionabout your life's second act, but
as I read it, really, really good.
This is more like a thirdor fourth act for you.
So let's go back a little, cause I thinkthat's where the journey starts, right?
(01:52):
You start your book witha story about your dad.
Gail (01:56):
Yeah.
So when I was 12 years old, myfather died and I didn't do well.
I got traumatized from it.
What happened?
Well, this is how traumatized I got.
I kept him alive for two years.
I pretended that he wasa spy for the government.
And that they had to say he was deadfor our safety and that, you know,
(02:18):
someday he was going to walk in the frontdoor and join the family for supper.
I literally kept him alive for two years.
But what happened was when hedied, we lived in a small town in
northern Ontario, and my mom had...
well, he died in March and theygave her to the end of the school
(02:39):
year to find a new place Becauseyou know, I actually thought we were
financially okay, but my dad was aminer and the mine owned the town.
So now we didn't haveanybody working for the mine.
So he died in march.
They said to her you have to move bythe end of june She had six kids and
(02:59):
was in her mid 30s So she took us toOttawa which was, you know, a city
that wasn't too close to where we were.
And she told me years later,I did that because I felt
like I could get a job there.
And it was my best chance ofkeeping the six of you together
and keeping us off welfare.
(03:20):
And so she moved us to thecity and the city kind of
swallowed me up and spit me out.
(chuckle) You know, when I tell mystories, I like to say, I come from a
place of healed scars and not open wounds.
I've gone through the personalgrowth journey and I'm very, very
fortunate that that I am where Iam, that I am where I am in life.
(03:44):
But at that point in thejourney, I didn't do too well.
Mom would come home from work exhausted.
She'd have supper with us and then she'dgo to bed and cry herself to sleep because
she just lost the love of her life.
And so trying to deal with the loss myselfand all this strange place and I turned
(04:07):
to drugs and alcohol and reckless behaviorbefore my 13th birthday, so 12 years old.
Mike (04:14):
And that's really young.
Gail (04:16):
Oh, I was sneaking out of the house, hitchhiking to a seedier part
of the city, hanging around with olderkids, getting stoned, hitchhiking
home at two o'clock in the morning.
My mom was none the wiser.
And you know, I'm actuallyI'm lucky I'm alive.
Like when, when you read aboutthat type of behavior now, holy
(04:39):
mackerel, I'm lucky I made it through.
And I stayed reallydysfunctional for over 10 years.
I was in my mid 20s when I woke up oneday, looked around at the mess I made in
my house, in my soul, and thought, man,there's got to be more to life than this.
There's got to be somethingI can do differently.
(05:01):
And it was that spark that started myfirst, like you said, reinventing myself.
That was my first chapter one ofgetting out of the dysfunction.
And I decided that...
I bought Napoleon Hill'sbook, Think and Grow Rich.
(laugh) A lot of people haveheard about it or read it.
In Napoleon, in, andthis is the 70s, right?
(05:24):
In Napoleon Hill, rich wasn't money.
Rich was whatever you wanted it to be.
It could be your family.
It could be whatever your passion was.
I was a dysfunctional 20 somethingyear old, so I made it money.
And my journey went to focusing onbecoming financially successful.
(05:45):
I wanted the good life.
(laugh) And so I went onthis journey to get it.
And, but I still didn'tknow I was an addict.
I still hadn't, you know,I'm still in denial.
I had to do a lot less consumptionbecause now I was learning and working and
stuff, but I still didn't quite get it.
And so I was working 10 or 12 hours aday and I was at the end of the workday.
(06:11):
I was hitting the bars and getting high.
And if you read my book, youknow, the next part of the story,
I had a three year old son.
Mike (06:20):
Mm hmm.
Gail (06:21):
And so my three year old son, unfortunately, you know, I thought
I'll make sure he's with caregiversthat love him and I'll say the quantity
time, the quality time that I havewith them is going to be what matters.
But yeah, for me, that wasperhaps it didn't work.
Mike (06:40):
It is amazing when we're in the throes of things like that.
the stories we tell ourselves tomake ourselves feel better, right?
And when it, you know, you talkedabout it when you in your twenties,
I thought that was such a great line.
I think that your line wasthen in my twenties, I didn't
want this to be my life story.
Well, that's what happenswith addiction, right?
There goes a decade, boom, it's gone.
(07:03):
But instead of ruminating andpouting about it, you turn it around.
Gail (07:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I started on that journey tobecome a lifelong learner.
I mean, I've been studying personal growthand peak performance for 40 years now.
(laugh)
And so when I started on the journey,but the next chapter was ended
up when my son was 12 years old.
I moved out here from Ottawa, which isin Eastern Canada, to Edmonton in Western
(07:35):
Canada and I changed his city, I broughta new man into his life, I changed his
school, his friends, and he spiraled.
He went through the same thing Iwent through, of course, right?
And he got, started getting into drugs andhe got into opioids, and so for me it was
(07:56):
like, this was the first time in my life Istopped doing mind altering substances on
a daily basis, because I started studyinghow to help a dysfunctional teenager.
(laugh)
And when I started reading all whathe was going through, the light bulb
came on and I realized, yeah, youknow, you're a functional addict.
(08:19):
You know, you're not admitting toaddiction, but you're a functional addict.
And I use that term loosely, right?
Functional because I could keep ajob and, but you know, there's...
(laugh) Like I said, Iuse the term loosely.
And when I share the story,my son's in recovery now.
And when I share our story,I have his permission.
(08:40):
He's one of my best friends, andhe's okay with me sharing our story.
And, you know, when we talk aboutit, the belief we both have is
that if he hadn't have gone intorecovery when he did, he'd be dead.
Because with the fentanyl that's inthe opioids right now and what's going
on, I mean, in my country alone wehad 6,000 overdose deaths in 2023.
(09:05):
You guys had over a hundred thousand.
Mike (09:08):
Yep.
Gail (09:08):
And the, and a lot of these people are between the ages of 20 and 39.
Like they're young souls andit is just the scariest thing.
And so, yeah.
So I learned everythingthere was to learn, right?
Whether it was what codependency,enabling, boundaries, compartmentalizing.
(09:32):
(laugh) I learned, you it all Istudied this thing and I got it
mastered because he hated me.
And he hated me so much forall the mistakes that I made.
And so I learned that, I don't haveto take the phone call that asks for
money for drugs and then gets verballyabusive and calls me everything under
(09:53):
the sun because of the mistakes I made.
I don't need to take that call.
But I can be in the backgroundand say, hey, when you're ready
for rehab, you can call me.
I'll be the support.
I'll be the advocate.
I'll get you into a place.
You know, when you hit your bottomand you want help, I'm here.
But in the meantime,I'm not a punching bag.
(10:15):
And so if you made it to the endof the, I think one of the last
chapters in my book, I wrote a songcalled Wings and it's giving people
permission to be happy, even thoughthey have a loved one that's struggling.
Because you're on a parallel journeyand you don't get to do their journey.
You just get to do yours.
Mike (10:36):
You talked about exploring it in such an analytical manner, right?
You attacked it.
And then you were worked in financewhich I don't think anyone would
describe as necessarily creative.
And then you flipped it and endedup doing the motivational talks,
the writing, the songwriting.
(10:56):
And I was delighted for those of youwho get the book, and you should.
At the end of the chapters,there's a QR code.
And the QR code that came with itjust, that's analytical I suppose.
And the QR code links to yourmusic, which is just amazing.
And it also ties into the chapter.
Gail (11:16):
Yeah.
I put a soundtrack in my book.
(laugh)
Mike (11:19):
I got to ask you, did you write the songs and then form the chapter around it?
Or how did, how did that process go?
Gail (11:29):
Actually a couple of them, right?
I write inspirational music.
So what happened was after 25 years asa financial advisor, and I loved it.
I was really good at my job.
I loved it.
I was helping my clientsbecome financially independent
so that they could retire.
And have a similar lifestyle to whatthey work and doing the same with myself.
(11:54):
And then when I was 58 years old,I started taking piano lessons
and I had no music background.
Like I'd never taken a lesson inmy life and I fell in love with it.
Actually, music started toflood back into my life in the
sense of even listening to it.
I didn't realize that, youknow, on the way to work, I was
listening to economic books.
(12:16):
And so after two years of piano lessons,I might not know how to play two songs.
I thought, I'm going to retire alittle earlier than I had planned.
I'm going to study music full time.
So at 61, I sold my practice.
And like I said, I was, Iwas managing $130 million.
(12:36):
And so I sold my practiceand I started studying.
I had private teachers, Berkeley.
I got to study with Berkeley Schoolof Music because when you study
with them online, you don't haveto audition (laugh), which was, you
know, I didn't have any talent here.
So I was taking bass guitar, piano.
(12:57):
songwriting, ear training.
And so after two years of studyingmusic full time, I thought, I'm going
to reinvent myself as a musician.
And when I shared that story withfolks, I kept getting the same response.
"Gail, that's so inspiring.
I'm going to go do badeep badeep."
(13:18):
Something they had put on the back burner.
And like, I was hearing thatfrom strangers, you know, talking
to people on the airplane.
So I kept getting "That's so inspiring.
I'm going to go do...", andI thought, whoa, nevermind.
I don't want to be a musician.
(laugh) I'm going tocome out of retirement.
I'm going to start a business,Gail Taylor Music, become a keynote
(13:41):
speaker, and I'm going to use mysongs because songs are healing.
And so I'm going to use myinspirational songs and my stories.
And I'm going to help folksbecome their best selves.
And so that's how the business evolved.
And then I hired an entertainmentlawyer to help me getting it all set up.
(14:01):
And he said, look, you know,with everything you've just
shared with me, write a book andthat'll give you the credibility.
And I thought, okay, no problem.
I had written one before.
Mike (14:12):
(laugh) No problem.
Gail (14:16):
Yeah, I know.
It took a year.
(laugh)
So yeah, that's howthat ended up evolving.
And with today's technology, Icould bring my songs to life.
Like you don't need to have arecord label or an established
artist or your song stays in a file.
(14:36):
I was able to hire studio musiciansand work with a studio And I was
able to bring them all to lifemyself and then distribute them
through an indie distributor.
So now they're on Spotify and Appleand YouTube and, you know, yeah.
So that was, I mean, out ofmy, my catalog of 18 songs, I'm
(14:59):
only playing on five of them.
I'm playing the keyboards on fiveof them, but for the most part,
I'm just the creator of them.
Mike (15:07):
Well, the songs are beautiful, and so is the poetry, I might add.
It's just, it is inspiring.
And I think, you say at one pointin your book, as you go upon that
journey, and I think a lot of peoplewill relate to this, you say you
felt like an imposter for a while.
And I think a lot of people, evennewly into recovery, can identify with
(15:28):
that feeling that as we start a newjourney, we feel like an imposter.
Gail (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, there's no question that imposter syndrome
and even whatever professionyou're in or just even as a person.
I mentioned this in the book likeDavid Bowie, Billie Eilish, like
these people felt like imposters.
They're gonna find out that I'mnot as as talented as they think.
(15:54):
No, no, I think being real toyourself is what really matters.
Don't try to pretend that you'resomething that you're not.
You're allowed to be at thelevel of your journey that you're
at and accepting it, right?
And that's the biggest thing is thatwe don't have to you know, like I'm,
I'm a beginner intermediate musicianeven to this day, but that's okay.
(16:19):
I don't have to be an advanced so,so yeah, being real to yourself.
And then in that same chapter, I think Italk about your internal dialogue, cause
I think that was a game changer for me.
Once I got rid of all the negativeself sabotaging thoughts, right?
And so, oh yeah, I,you know, I'm not this.
(16:42):
Once I got rid of that and I was ableto, well there was a couple of books,
but one I read by Gail Olenkova.
She was a long distance runner in the70s and she wrote a book called I Got
This and that was the one that reallytaught me if I found myself in my
head thinking negative thoughts, thenI used her mantra, which was garbage
(17:05):
in, garbage out (laugh) , right?
And then shifted the thinking.
And, you know, I'll saythis to the listeners.
This is like training for a marathon.
It doesn't happen, you know, it'snot a New Year's resolution that
you're going to drop in two weeks.
When you start shifting, you can rewireyour brain and coming out of addiction
is the perfect time to rewire it.
(17:27):
And so, you know, my example thatI'll give you is if I'm doing a
proposal for a keynote speech andI'm filling it out and I might think
Oooh why bother filling this out?
Well, you know, why would they hire me?
They've already heard everything I haveto say or there's so many other speakers.
Why would they pay my fee?
(17:48):
Garbage in, garbage out.
And I'll yell it.
I'll be in my car, garbage in...
And then I'll rephrase it andsay, Oh my God, I'm so excited
that I came across this proposal.
I'm a perfect fit for them.
I can share my stories.
I can inspire them to do whatever itis they're putting on the back burner.
That's the rephrasing and you just workat it every single day until you're
(18:14):
like me and you end up with rose colorglasses even in your sleep (laugh).
Mike (18:19):
Well, and you are I mean you are good at that.
It comes across in your bookIt absolutely has come across
in our conversation already.
You're really good at reframingand turning things into positives.
Gail (18:32):
But it was training, right?
It was training.
And so everybody, like, that's what I say.
Everybody can do it.
Mike (18:38):
How long before it feels like that's your just natural go to?
Because it clearly isnow your natural go to.
Gail (18:46):
Yes, and I would say probably when I first started coming out of addiction and
I first started to work on it, I'm goingto say it took a couple of years before
it started to you know, really settle in.
And that's why I say it'slike training for a marathon.
(19:07):
I mean, you feel it after a week.
Once you start doing it, once you find,and your mantra, you know, what you do
might not be garbage in, garbage out.
It might be something else.
It might be, I got this,but getting that shift.
I actually designed some pendants.
A line of pendants.
(19:28):
This one says staying young as atactile item for people so that
when you're in your head, You know,like Tony Robbins says, if you're
in your head, you're dead (laugh).
So if you grab the pendant andjust rub it and use it as a tactile
item to get yourself to shift.
(19:49):
And once you start doing that on a dailybasis, so you know, the first time you
do it might be once a day, then twicea day, then three times a day, then
you don't even need to do it all ofa sudden because you're, you don't,
you don't sabotage yourself anymore.
Or when I.
It's about curveballs, right?
The book's called Curveballs.
(20:09):
When life throws curveballs atyou, that means you're living.
You're supposed to get curveballs (laugh).
You're not in a bubble.
I mean, that's part of what life is.
It's not the curveballs that matter.
It's what you do with them.
So when life throws you acurveball, you look at it and
say, okay, what's the lesson here?
How can I turn this around?
(20:31):
And you work with it.
You use it as a growth,as a stepping stone.
Mike (20:35):
Well, and you have a quote in your book that attitude makes
the difference between gettingbetter and simply getting older.
Gail (20:41):
Right.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Attitude, right?
One thing we can control is our attitude.
Mike (20:49):
You know talk for a minute about you know, I thought, found it was interesting.
There's an old saying, you know, karmais, well, karma is what it is, right?
That your son went through hisstuff just around the same age
where you went through your stuff.
It must have been like lookingin a mirror, you know, and
seeing a reflection of yourself.
And yet you talk about if you couldlook back now at your own mom.
(21:14):
You have this wonderful quote thatsays if you could tell your 15 year
old self something, it would havebeen, do you remember what you said?
Gail (21:21):
Well, I would have said you're an idiot (laugh).
Mike (21:25):
That was pretty close.
Yep.
Gail (21:27):
Yeah, like I I was there's no question I did some really
stupid things during that you knowduring my teenage years and like
I said being in active addiction.
And you know, anyone that's listening toyour call that is, that has experienced
addiction, you know that one of thesymptoms of addiction is selfishness.
(21:50):
And I was very, very selfish, and I didnot understand other people's emotions.
You don't get them.
And so I hurt my mom.
I hitchhiked across the countrywhen I was 16 years old.
Mike (22:04):
That was an amazing story.
Gail (22:05):
I was 15.
I ran away from home with my boyfriendand $7, hitchhiked across the country.
And this is my poor mother who losther husband and is raising these
kids, three kids, three years ago.
And one of them decides tohitchhike across the country.
Like how, oh my God, I was, I was a jerk.
There was no, you know,there was no doubt about it.
(22:28):
And then when my son started going throughit, and as I brought forward, it was
actually the first time in my life that Ieven realized what was going on with me.
Mike (22:39):
Yeah.
Gail (22:40):
Right?
Right.
I had reduced a lot and I had moved onto just you know, marijuana and alcohol
because I was somewhat functional,but yeah, I use that term loosely.
Mike (22:53):
Well, that takes time also, right?
And maturity is that recognitionthat, yeah, I was a jerk back in the
day, and then making amends for it.
Gail (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And there's a lot of differentways coming out of recovery, right?
Whether you're going to rehab.
Like, I went to rehab one time as afamily member, as a guest, and I asked
the question to one of the counselors,how come I didn't have to go to rehab to
get clean and so many people do and hesaid because you did what we call hitting
(23:29):
a high bottom and that's where I used theterm I was a functional addict because I
could still have a job and I could stillpay my bills but you know you know there's
four different stages of addiction and thefact that I got stuck in a middle stage.
I was still stuck and Iwas still pretty messed up.
(23:52):
So yeah, when Corey started goingthrough what he started going
through, it was a real eye openerfor me to be able to help him.
I had to look at it and say, Oh(laugh), it looks like you're deeper
into this than you thought you were.
And so, yeah, that was, thatwas definitely a second bottom.
(24:15):
I'll call that my second bottom.
And it was a real eye opener for meand a new shift into me as a person.
Mike (24:23):
You started this by saying, and I love that, and you put it in
your book that you, you tell storiesabout him with his permission.
And he's better.
He's in recovery.
How long did it take before you got yourrelationship back where you wanted it?
Gail (24:40):
It was, it took a little while.
We hadn't spoken for a couple of years.
He had gone to rehab a number oftimes, but this last time that he got
off of the opioids, he used Suboxone.
And he had been on the Suboxone, I'mgoing to say, for six months when he
reached out and said, you know, I'd liketo establish a relationship with you.
(25:04):
I've been clean for six months.
And it was, yeah, I'm here.
I'm willing to do a relationship,but I just have a question.
Like, You don't like me.
Every time you talk to me, everything Isay sort of triggers some form of Ahhh!
(25:28):
And I said, so, you know, areyou sure about this (laugh)?
Cause I don't, you don'tseem to like the person I am.
And he said, no, I would liketo have a relationship with you.
And for six months, we wereon pins and needles because
he was still coming out of it.
Right?
There was still a little bit of delusionaltalk that was, but hey, I was in.
(25:49):
I was gonna see if wecould make this happen.
You know they say, six monthsafter you abstain, the fog
lifts in your brain, right?
That it takes six months before thefog actually lifts for the first
time and you start seeing things.
And so it was pretty neat to watch him.
(26:09):
It went a little bit slower because ofthe strength of the drug and because of
the process that he used to get off of it.
But I think it doesn'tmatter what you use, right?
It was like this, this epidemic wehave and the problem that we have.
Our society is trying so hard, whetherit's rehab or 12 step, whether you're
(26:30):
going to NA or whether you're youknow, using Suboxone or whether if
you're still in active addiction,going to safe injection sites.
There's so many different things rightnow to try to figure out how we're
going to deal with the situation that,you know, one size doesn't fit all.
Mike (26:49):
There's no time limit for liking or for love, is there?
Gail (26:53):
Nope.
And it was yeah, it was pretty neat comingback into the, coming back into the, to
the relationship that we have right now.
Mike (27:02):
Great.
Well, the book, I'll hold it upfor people who are seeing this on
YouTube, it's called Curveballs.
It is just, it's, it's an easyread, but it's really good.
And I went back to it several times.
I had to pause the song about your dadand then come back to it because it
created an emotional response, right?
It's really good.
Gail, thanks for your work.
(27:23):
Thanks for being with us.
You all know there are linksto Gail Taylor Music, to her
art, to her book, to her music.
And thanks everybody for listening.
Listen anytime you're able.
And until next time, staysafe, and I think Gail would
say, learn to hit a curveball.
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction, brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
Not everybody's second act in life is asimpactful as the one of my guests today.
Gail Taylor had remarkable successas an investment advisor and
(00:33):
extensive expertise in finance.
She then embarked on a profoundsecond act that transformed her into
a prolific songwriter, motivationalspeaker, and philanthropic force.
Her new book, just a delightful newbook, Curveballs, is all about self
discovery and chasing dreams with personalstories and tools that shaped her past.
(00:55):
She focuses on embracingauthenticity and how living with
purpose and passion is achievable.
Welcome Gail.
Gail (01:02):
Thank you, and thank you so much for having me.
I'm really honored to be here.
Mike (01:06):
Well, that's great, and you're, we're talking, you're
in where did you say again?
Somewhere in Canada, right?
Gail (01:10):
I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, so I'm right above Montana.
Mike (01:15):
And, and how's the weather there today?
Gail (01:17):
It's not bad.
Not bad.
It's not, it's not a warm day.
We're starting to get some winterweather here, a little bit of
snow on the ground, but I don'tmind the cold, so it's all good.
Mike (01:30):
Yeah, when you said not bad, we just got a bit of the
Canadian in there as well.
Well, Gail, I want to talk about yourbook, obviously, but before we get into
it, I mentioned in the introductionabout your life's second act, but
as I read it, really, really good.
This is more like a thirdor fourth act for you.
So let's go back a little, cause I thinkthat's where the journey starts, right?
(01:52):
You start your book witha story about your dad.
Gail (01:56):
Yeah.
So when I was 12 years old, myfather died and I didn't do well.
I got traumatized from it.
What happened?
Well, this is how traumatized I got.
I kept him alive for two years.
I pretended that he wasa spy for the government.
And that they had to say he was deadfor our safety and that, you know,
(02:18):
someday he was going to walk in the frontdoor and join the family for supper.
I literally kept him alive for two years.
But what happened was when hedied, we lived in a small town in
northern Ontario, and my mom had...
well, he died in March and theygave her to the end of the school
(02:39):
year to find a new place Becauseyou know, I actually thought we were
financially okay, but my dad was aminer and the mine owned the town.
So now we didn't haveanybody working for the mine.
So he died in march.
They said to her you have to move bythe end of june She had six kids and
(02:59):
was in her mid 30s So she took us toOttawa which was, you know, a city
that wasn't too close to where we were.
And she told me years later,I did that because I felt
like I could get a job there.
And it was my best chance ofkeeping the six of you together
and keeping us off welfare.
(03:20):
And so she moved us to thecity and the city kind of
swallowed me up and spit me out.
(chuckle) You know, when I tell mystories, I like to say, I come from a
place of healed scars and not open wounds.
I've gone through the personalgrowth journey and I'm very, very
fortunate that that I am where Iam, that I am where I am in life.
(03:44):
But at that point in thejourney, I didn't do too well.
Mom would come home from work exhausted.
She'd have supper with us and then she'dgo to bed and cry herself to sleep because
she just lost the love of her life.
And so trying to deal with the loss myselfand all this strange place and I turned
(04:07):
to drugs and alcohol and reckless behaviorbefore my 13th birthday, so 12 years old.
Mike (04:14):
And that's really young.
Gail (04:16):
Oh, I was sneaking out of the house, hitchhiking to a seedier part
of the city, hanging around with olderkids, getting stoned, hitchhiking
home at two o'clock in the morning.
My mom was none the wiser.
And you know, I'm actuallyI'm lucky I'm alive.
Like when, when you read aboutthat type of behavior now, holy
(04:39):
mackerel, I'm lucky I made it through.
And I stayed reallydysfunctional for over 10 years.
I was in my mid 20s when I woke up oneday, looked around at the mess I made in
my house, in my soul, and thought, man,there's got to be more to life than this.
There's got to be somethingI can do differently.
(05:01):
And it was that spark that started myfirst, like you said, reinventing myself.
That was my first chapter one ofgetting out of the dysfunction.
And I decided that...
I bought Napoleon Hill'sbook, Think and Grow Rich.
(laugh) A lot of people haveheard about it or read it.
In Napoleon, in, andthis is the 70s, right?
(05:24):
In Napoleon Hill, rich wasn't money.
Rich was whatever you wanted it to be.
It could be your family.
It could be whatever your passion was.
I was a dysfunctional 20 somethingyear old, so I made it money.
And my journey went to focusing onbecoming financially successful.
(05:45):
I wanted the good life.
(laugh) And so I went onthis journey to get it.
And, but I still didn'tknow I was an addict.
I still hadn't, you know,I'm still in denial.
I had to do a lot less consumptionbecause now I was learning and working and
stuff, but I still didn't quite get it.
And so I was working 10 or 12 hours aday and I was at the end of the workday.
(06:11):
I was hitting the bars and getting high.
And if you read my book, youknow, the next part of the story,
I had a three year old son.
Mike (06:20):
Mm hmm.
Gail (06:21):
And so my three year old son, unfortunately, you know, I thought
I'll make sure he's with caregiversthat love him and I'll say the quantity
time, the quality time that I havewith them is going to be what matters.
But yeah, for me, that wasperhaps it didn't work.
Mike (06:40):
It is amazing when we're in the throes of things like that.
the stories we tell ourselves tomake ourselves feel better, right?
And when it, you know, you talkedabout it when you in your twenties,
I thought that was such a great line.
I think that your line wasthen in my twenties, I didn't
want this to be my life story.
Well, that's what happenswith addiction, right?
There goes a decade, boom, it's gone.
(07:03):
But instead of ruminating andpouting about it, you turn it around.
Gail (07:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I started on that journey tobecome a lifelong learner.
I mean, I've been studying personal growthand peak performance for 40 years now.
(laugh)
And so when I started on the journey,but the next chapter was ended
up when my son was 12 years old.
I moved out here from Ottawa, which isin Eastern Canada, to Edmonton in Western
(07:35):
Canada and I changed his city, I broughta new man into his life, I changed his
school, his friends, and he spiraled.
He went through the same thing Iwent through, of course, right?
And he got, started getting into drugs andhe got into opioids, and so for me it was
(07:56):
like, this was the first time in my life Istopped doing mind altering substances on
a daily basis, because I started studyinghow to help a dysfunctional teenager.
(laugh)
And when I started reading all whathe was going through, the light bulb
came on and I realized, yeah, youknow, you're a functional addict.
(08:19):
You know, you're not admitting toaddiction, but you're a functional addict.
And I use that term loosely, right?
Functional because I could keep ajob and, but you know, there's...
(laugh) Like I said, Iuse the term loosely.
And when I share the story,my son's in recovery now.
And when I share our story,I have his permission.
(08:40):
He's one of my best friends, andhe's okay with me sharing our story.
And, you know, when we talk aboutit, the belief we both have is
that if he hadn't have gone intorecovery when he did, he'd be dead.
Because with the fentanyl that's inthe opioids right now and what's going
on, I mean, in my country alone wehad 6,000 overdose deaths in 2023.
(09:05):
You guys had over a hundred thousand.
Mike (09:08):
Yep.
Gail (09:08):
And the, and a lot of these people are between the ages of 20 and 39.
Like they're young souls andit is just the scariest thing.
And so, yeah.
So I learned everythingthere was to learn, right?
Whether it was what codependency,enabling, boundaries, compartmentalizing.
(09:32):
(laugh) I learned, you it all Istudied this thing and I got it
mastered because he hated me.
And he hated me so much forall the mistakes that I made.
And so I learned that, I don't haveto take the phone call that asks for
money for drugs and then gets verballyabusive and calls me everything under
(09:53):
the sun because of the mistakes I made.
I don't need to take that call.
But I can be in the backgroundand say, hey, when you're ready
for rehab, you can call me.
I'll be the support.
I'll be the advocate.
I'll get you into a place.
You know, when you hit your bottomand you want help, I'm here.
But in the meantime,I'm not a punching bag.
(10:15):
And so if you made it to the endof the, I think one of the last
chapters in my book, I wrote a songcalled Wings and it's giving people
permission to be happy, even thoughthey have a loved one that's struggling.
Because you're on a parallel journeyand you don't get to do their journey.
You just get to do yours.
Mike (10:36):
You talked about exploring it in such an analytical manner, right?
You attacked it.
And then you were worked in financewhich I don't think anyone would
describe as necessarily creative.
And then you flipped it and endedup doing the motivational talks,
the writing, the songwriting.
(10:56):
And I was delighted for those of youwho get the book, and you should.
At the end of the chapters,there's a QR code.
And the QR code that came with itjust, that's analytical I suppose.
And the QR code links to yourmusic, which is just amazing.
And it also ties into the chapter.
Gail (11:16):
Yeah.
I put a soundtrack in my book.
(laugh)
Mike (11:19):
I got to ask you, did you write the songs and then form the chapter around it?
Or how did, how did that process go?
Gail (11:29):
Actually a couple of them, right?
I write inspirational music.
So what happened was after 25 years asa financial advisor, and I loved it.
I was really good at my job.
I loved it.
I was helping my clientsbecome financially independent
so that they could retire.
And have a similar lifestyle to whatthey work and doing the same with myself.
(11:54):
And then when I was 58 years old,I started taking piano lessons
and I had no music background.
Like I'd never taken a lesson inmy life and I fell in love with it.
Actually, music started toflood back into my life in the
sense of even listening to it.
I didn't realize that, youknow, on the way to work, I was
listening to economic books.
(12:16):
And so after two years of piano lessons,I might not know how to play two songs.
I thought, I'm going to retire alittle earlier than I had planned.
I'm going to study music full time.
So at 61, I sold my practice.
And like I said, I was, Iwas managing $130 million.
(12:36):
And so I sold my practiceand I started studying.
I had private teachers, Berkeley.
I got to study with Berkeley Schoolof Music because when you study
with them online, you don't haveto audition (laugh), which was, you
know, I didn't have any talent here.
So I was taking bass guitar, piano.
(12:57):
songwriting, ear training.
And so after two years of studyingmusic full time, I thought, I'm going
to reinvent myself as a musician.
And when I shared that story withfolks, I kept getting the same response.
"Gail, that's so inspiring.
I'm going to go do badeep badeep."
(13:18):
Something they had put on the back burner.
And like, I was hearing thatfrom strangers, you know, talking
to people on the airplane.
So I kept getting "That's so inspiring.
I'm going to go do...", andI thought, whoa, nevermind.
I don't want to be a musician.
(laugh) I'm going tocome out of retirement.
I'm going to start a business,Gail Taylor Music, become a keynote
(13:41):
speaker, and I'm going to use mysongs because songs are healing.
And so I'm going to use myinspirational songs and my stories.
And I'm going to help folksbecome their best selves.
And so that's how the business evolved.
And then I hired an entertainmentlawyer to help me getting it all set up.
(14:01):
And he said, look, you know,with everything you've just
shared with me, write a book andthat'll give you the credibility.
And I thought, okay, no problem.
I had written one before.
Mike (14:12):
(laugh) No problem.
Gail (14:16):
Yeah, I know.
It took a year.
(laugh)
So yeah, that's howthat ended up evolving.
And with today's technology, Icould bring my songs to life.
Like you don't need to have arecord label or an established
artist or your song stays in a file.
(14:36):
I was able to hire studio musiciansand work with a studio And I was
able to bring them all to lifemyself and then distribute them
through an indie distributor.
So now they're on Spotify and Appleand YouTube and, you know, yeah.
So that was, I mean, out ofmy, my catalog of 18 songs, I'm
(14:59):
only playing on five of them.
I'm playing the keyboards on fiveof them, but for the most part,
I'm just the creator of them.
Mike (15:07):
Well, the songs are beautiful, and so is the poetry, I might add.
It's just, it is inspiring.
And I think, you say at one pointin your book, as you go upon that
journey, and I think a lot of peoplewill relate to this, you say you
felt like an imposter for a while.
And I think a lot of people, evennewly into recovery, can identify with
(15:28):
that feeling that as we start a newjourney, we feel like an imposter.
Gail (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, there's no question that imposter syndrome
and even whatever professionyou're in or just even as a person.
I mentioned this in the book likeDavid Bowie, Billie Eilish, like
these people felt like imposters.
They're gonna find out that I'mnot as as talented as they think.
(15:54):
No, no, I think being real toyourself is what really matters.
Don't try to pretend that you'resomething that you're not.
You're allowed to be at thelevel of your journey that you're
at and accepting it, right?
And that's the biggest thing is thatwe don't have to you know, like I'm,
I'm a beginner intermediate musicianeven to this day, but that's okay.
(16:19):
I don't have to be an advanced so,so yeah, being real to yourself.
And then in that same chapter, I think Italk about your internal dialogue, cause
I think that was a game changer for me.
Once I got rid of all the negativeself sabotaging thoughts, right?
And so, oh yeah, I,you know, I'm not this.
(16:42):
Once I got rid of that and I was ableto, well there was a couple of books,
but one I read by Gail Olenkova.
She was a long distance runner in the70s and she wrote a book called I Got
This and that was the one that reallytaught me if I found myself in my
head thinking negative thoughts, thenI used her mantra, which was garbage
(17:05):
in, garbage out (laugh) , right?
And then shifted the thinking.
And, you know, I'll saythis to the listeners.
This is like training for a marathon.
It doesn't happen, you know, it'snot a New Year's resolution that
you're going to drop in two weeks.
When you start shifting, you can rewireyour brain and coming out of addiction
is the perfect time to rewire it.
(17:27):
And so, you know, my example thatI'll give you is if I'm doing a
proposal for a keynote speech andI'm filling it out and I might think
Oooh why bother filling this out?
Well, you know, why would they hire me?
They've already heard everything I haveto say or there's so many other speakers.
Why would they pay my fee?
(17:48):
Garbage in, garbage out.
And I'll yell it.
I'll be in my car, garbage in...
And then I'll rephrase it andsay, Oh my God, I'm so excited
that I came across this proposal.
I'm a perfect fit for them.
I can share my stories.
I can inspire them to do whatever itis they're putting on the back burner.
That's the rephrasing and you just workat it every single day until you're
(18:14):
like me and you end up with rose colorglasses even in your sleep (laugh).
Mike (18:19):
Well, and you are I mean you are good at that.
It comes across in your bookIt absolutely has come across
in our conversation already.
You're really good at reframingand turning things into positives.
Gail (18:32):
But it was training, right?
It was training.
And so everybody, like, that's what I say.
Everybody can do it.
Mike (18:38):
How long before it feels like that's your just natural go to?
Because it clearly isnow your natural go to.
Gail (18:46):
Yes, and I would say probably when I first started coming out of addiction and
I first started to work on it, I'm goingto say it took a couple of years before
it started to you know, really settle in.
And that's why I say it'slike training for a marathon.
(19:07):
I mean, you feel it after a week.
Once you start doing it, once you find,and your mantra, you know, what you do
might not be garbage in, garbage out.
It might be something else.
It might be, I got this,but getting that shift.
I actually designed some pendants.
A line of pendants.
(19:28):
This one says staying young as atactile item for people so that
when you're in your head, You know,like Tony Robbins says, if you're
in your head, you're dead (laugh).
So if you grab the pendant andjust rub it and use it as a tactile
item to get yourself to shift.
(19:49):
And once you start doing that on a dailybasis, so you know, the first time you
do it might be once a day, then twicea day, then three times a day, then
you don't even need to do it all ofa sudden because you're, you don't,
you don't sabotage yourself anymore.
Or when I.
It's about curveballs, right?
The book's called Curveballs.
(20:09):
When life throws curveballs atyou, that means you're living.
You're supposed to get curveballs (laugh).
You're not in a bubble.
I mean, that's part of what life is.
It's not the curveballs that matter.
It's what you do with them.
So when life throws you acurveball, you look at it and
say, okay, what's the lesson here?
How can I turn this around?
(20:31):
And you work with it.
You use it as a growth,as a stepping stone.
Mike (20:35):
Well, and you have a quote in your book that attitude makes
the difference between gettingbetter and simply getting older.
Gail (20:41):
Right.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Attitude, right?
One thing we can control is our attitude.
Mike (20:49):
You know talk for a minute about you know, I thought, found it was interesting.
There's an old saying, you know, karmais, well, karma is what it is, right?
That your son went through hisstuff just around the same age
where you went through your stuff.
It must have been like lookingin a mirror, you know, and
seeing a reflection of yourself.
And yet you talk about if you couldlook back now at your own mom.
(21:14):
You have this wonderful quote thatsays if you could tell your 15 year
old self something, it would havebeen, do you remember what you said?
Gail (21:21):
Well, I would have said you're an idiot (laugh).
Mike (21:25):
That was pretty close.
Yep.
Gail (21:27):
Yeah, like I I was there's no question I did some really
stupid things during that you knowduring my teenage years and like
I said being in active addiction.
And you know, anyone that's listening toyour call that is, that has experienced
addiction, you know that one of thesymptoms of addiction is selfishness.
(21:50):
And I was very, very selfish, and I didnot understand other people's emotions.
You don't get them.
And so I hurt my mom.
I hitchhiked across the countrywhen I was 16 years old.
Mike (22:04):
That was an amazing story.
Gail (22:05):
I was 15.
I ran away from home with my boyfriendand $7, hitchhiked across the country.
And this is my poor mother who losther husband and is raising these
kids, three kids, three years ago.
And one of them decides tohitchhike across the country.
Like how, oh my God, I was, I was a jerk.
There was no, you know,there was no doubt about it.
(22:28):
And then when my son started going throughit, and as I brought forward, it was
actually the first time in my life that Ieven realized what was going on with me.
Mike (22:39):
Yeah.
Gail (22:40):
Right?
Right.
I had reduced a lot and I had moved onto just you know, marijuana and alcohol
because I was somewhat functional,but yeah, I use that term loosely.
Mike (22:53):
Well, that takes time also, right?
And maturity is that recognitionthat, yeah, I was a jerk back in the
day, and then making amends for it.
Gail (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And there's a lot of differentways coming out of recovery, right?
Whether you're going to rehab.
Like, I went to rehab one time as afamily member, as a guest, and I asked
the question to one of the counselors,how come I didn't have to go to rehab to
get clean and so many people do and hesaid because you did what we call hitting
(23:29):
a high bottom and that's where I used theterm I was a functional addict because I
could still have a job and I could stillpay my bills but you know you know there's
four different stages of addiction and thefact that I got stuck in a middle stage.
I was still stuck and Iwas still pretty messed up.
(23:52):
So yeah, when Corey started goingthrough what he started going
through, it was a real eye openerfor me to be able to help him.
I had to look at it and say, Oh(laugh), it looks like you're deeper
into this than you thought you were.
And so, yeah, that was, thatwas definitely a second bottom.
(24:15):
I'll call that my second bottom.
And it was a real eye opener for meand a new shift into me as a person.
Mike (24:23):
You started this by saying, and I love that, and you put it in
your book that you, you tell storiesabout him with his permission.
And he's better.
He's in recovery.
How long did it take before you got yourrelationship back where you wanted it?
Gail (24:40):
It was, it took a little while.
We hadn't spoken for a couple of years.
He had gone to rehab a number oftimes, but this last time that he got
off of the opioids, he used Suboxone.
And he had been on the Suboxone, I'mgoing to say, for six months when he
reached out and said, you know, I'd liketo establish a relationship with you.
(25:04):
I've been clean for six months.
And it was, yeah, I'm here.
I'm willing to do a relationship,but I just have a question.
Like, You don't like me.
Every time you talk to me, everything Isay sort of triggers some form of Ahhh!
(25:28):
And I said, so, you know, areyou sure about this (laugh)?
Cause I don't, you don'tseem to like the person I am.
And he said, no, I would liketo have a relationship with you.
And for six months, we wereon pins and needles because
he was still coming out of it.
Right?
There was still a little bit of delusionaltalk that was, but hey, I was in.
(25:49):
I was gonna see if wecould make this happen.
You know they say, six monthsafter you abstain, the fog
lifts in your brain, right?
That it takes six months before thefog actually lifts for the first
time and you start seeing things.
And so it was pretty neat to watch him.
(26:09):
It went a little bit slower because ofthe strength of the drug and because of
the process that he used to get off of it.
But I think it doesn'tmatter what you use, right?
It was like this, this epidemic wehave and the problem that we have.
Our society is trying so hard, whetherit's rehab or 12 step, whether you're
(26:30):
going to NA or whether you're youknow, using Suboxone or whether if
you're still in active addiction,going to safe injection sites.
There's so many different things rightnow to try to figure out how we're
going to deal with the situation that,you know, one size doesn't fit all.
Mike (26:49):
There's no time limit for liking or for love, is there?
Gail (26:53):
Nope.
And it was yeah, it was pretty neat comingback into the, coming back into the, to
the relationship that we have right now.
Mike (27:02):
Great.
Well, the book, I'll hold it upfor people who are seeing this on
YouTube, it's called Curveballs.
It is just, it's, it's an easyread, but it's really good.
And I went back to it several times.
I had to pause the song about your dadand then come back to it because it
created an emotional response, right?
It's really good.
Gail, thanks for your work.
(27:23):
Thanks for being with us.
You all know there are linksto Gail Taylor Music, to her
art, to her book, to her music.
And thanks everybody for listening.
Listen anytime you're able.
And until next time, staysafe, and I think Gail would
say, learn to hit a curveball.
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