January 15, 2025 • 25 mins
Jordan Davis found himself at a crossroads between his passion and his addiction. He discusses the decision he made to get his life back on the road to success. Jordan is the director of operations of The Chocolate Moose, a restaurant and creamery in Bloomington, Indiana. He is also the host of the podcast “No Dishes,” a discussion dedicated to finding Bloomington’s culinary gems. He can be reached at The Chocolate Moose | Best Dessert in IN, and his podcast can be found at No Dishes Podcast | The Bloomington Food Scene.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:12):
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
What happens when your talents,passion, and work collide head
on with a substance use disorder?
Well, that's a situation ourguest faced a couple of years ago.
(00:33):
Jordan Davis is the Director ofOperations for the Bloomington, Indiana
Ice Cream Shop, the Chocolate Moose,and host of the podcast No dishes.
Welcome, Jordan.
Jordan (00:45):
Hey, yeah.
Thanks for having me, Mike.
Mike (00:47):
I started giggling because I wanted to drop in and say, and it's also
partially sponsored by the ChocolateMoose, which would fit today, right?
Jordan (00:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Mike (00:56):
Well, let's start there.
Before we get off on to whathappened to you, talk a little
bit about The Chocolate Moose.
Man, I was reading about it.
There's quite a history there.
Yeah.
Jordan (01:04):
Yeah.
So, you know, I got very fortunate.
I came out about 10 and ahalf years ago and you can see
behind me this little drawing.
Mike (01:11):
Yeah.
Jordan (01:12):
Yeah.
There we go.
It was just a small little A framestand in the middle of a parking
lot, you know, and that stand youknow, had been there since 55.
I got torn down, I think in2017, but we've been on this
plot of land since 1933.
So, you know, quite a bit of history.
You know, it was called The Penguin,it was Maze Cafe, then The Penguin.
And then since 83, we'vebeen The Chocolate Moose.
(01:33):
Right around that time, Michael Jordanwas in Bloomington for the Olympic
trials with Bob Knight at Assembly Hall.
Sports Illustrated did a profile on himand said twice in their profile with
Michael Jordan, it said his favorite placein Bloomington was The Chocolate Moose.
Mike (01:45):
(laugh) Oh, that can't hurt!
Jordan (01:47):
Yeah, no, exactly.
And then our other little bitof lore we have is from Jack and
Diane when he says, Sucking on achili dog outside the Tasty Freeze.
In the music video, it'sactually at our stand.
You know, so Mellencamp stilllives here in Bloomington and
comes around all the time.
And so we've got the, should havethe world's most famous chili
dog from that alone, you know.
Mike (02:06):
That is great.
I did not read that.
That was great.
Jordan (02:09):
So we've expanded to a couple of locations and, you know, my 10
years and really have grown thebusiness quite a bit, we started with
the first weekly food truck events.
It's called Bloomington FoodTruck Friday, runs every Friday,
April through the end of October.
Draws, you know, a thousandor 2000 people every week.
And yeah, it's just been reallygreat to grow the business
and come on with a brand.
That means so much to so many peopleand just try not to screw it up.
(02:30):
You know, in my first couple ofweeks working, I had a couple of
come by and You know, they're like,Hey, this is our 50th anniversary.
So that's incredible.
They said our first date was here.
I was like, Oh, that's crazy!
(laugh) So it means a lot, you know,The Chocolate Moose means a lot to
a lot of people here in Bloomington.
So I just try to do right by them.
Mike (02:46):
Well, and when you're in a college town that's where
people cut their teeth too.
So I would imagine almost every football,basketball game, they come back and
you, you try to do something to thatplace and they're going to be mad.
Jordan (02:58):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, it was a PR nightmare when, youknow, the May family who had had this land
since 33, when Doran Doran May, who, youknow, built the stand with his father.
And when he decided to sell theproperty and he's still alive
and well here in town, but he'sretired and he's up there in years.
And he wanted to set up hisfamily, you know, for, you
know, generations potentially.
And so he decided to sellthe land to developers.
(03:19):
And I had to do all the media to be like,Hey, like, this wasn't our decision.
We're gonna try to makethe most out of it.
And Hey, if it was anyone'sdecision to make it to this
guy's, you know, his family.
So who are we to say that he shouldn't beable to set up his family in the long run?
So we've made the most out of it.
You know, now we have indoorseating and bathrooms.
We still have a walk up window.
And you know, all of the canvases in ourdining room pay homage to our history, so
(03:43):
we don't want it to be forgotten or lostbut yeah, it was really, really tough
when that stand had to come down, andnow we're in, you know, the classic you
know, four story retail on first floor.
You know, top three are apartmentsthat you see in a lot of places.
Mike (03:55):
Sure.
Well, and you also, I should mentionthis before I forget to do it.
You also host a podcast yourselfcalled No Dishes about culinary
gems in in Bloomington, right?
Jordan (04:05):
Yeah.
So we started that.
It sounds like you said, I knowyou said you've been going before
we recorded for four years.
We've been going for aboutfour, a little over four years.
We started in the middle of the pandemic.
I've worked in a restaurant my whole life.
You know, and originally the idea wasto get people coming off of work and
be like, here's a shot and a beer.
How was work?
You know?
And we very quickly realized that wasjust gonna be a lot of complaining.
(laugh) So we pivoted from that.
(04:27):
So we did three audio only seasons in myapartment and this is before I went sober.
So a lot of those old episodesthat we still have up on Spotify,
you know, we were cursing quite abit and drinking and imbibing, you
know, and then I went to rehab.
And we'll dive in all that, but we endedup, you know, just got a new producer.
The old producer was tired of my shit, andI don't blame him, you know, at the time.
(04:48):
And so, new guy came on, we started doingvideo and really kind of took it much
more seriously, and so now we're, youknow, on Tuesday, on the 31st our last
episode of season seven will come out.
We'll have done 48 episodes this week.
I think we're at 140 total, or I'msorry, this year, then about 140
total audio video, and we'll doseasons eight and nine, which will
be 40 total more episodes next year.
Mike (05:09):
Well, let's get into your stuff.
You know, like a lot of peoplewho, you know, drink or whatever.
At what point did you go, oh, thisis starting to become an issue?
Jordan (05:20):
Oh, man.
I mean, it's tough.
So in the industry, you know, so beforeI was with Chocolate Moose, I was serving
and bartending and curating cocktail listsand, you know, wine lists and doing all
that fun stuff, going to wine tastings.
It was part of the job.
And, you know, so it was just, I never,it's my, you know, I've always, I,
I obviously reflect quite a bit and,you know, I'm torn because in what
(05:43):
I've come to is I don't really think,I mean, I had, I abused alcohol 100%,
but I don't think I was really evergot to the point of being an alcoholic.
The problem was when cocaine came intothe picture, and that's when any, as
soon as you do one line of cocaine,you turn into an addict right away,
you know so it was, I found my, Ihave no desire to do cocaine sober.
(06:03):
So, the really nice part is that,so now I just avoid alcohol, and
I have no desire to do cocaine.
And it's not really super hard forme to avoid alcohol because that
wasn't what the real issue was with.
Again, I definitely abused it as manypeople in the industry do and have some
very regrettable nights from drinking.
And you know, I had a DUIback in 2013 when I was 23.
(06:24):
You know, that wasn't enoughto be my wake up call.
You know, everyone has their own, theirown point that they reach, you know?
And so I had started to dabblewith cocaine here and there back.
You know, when I was 22, 23, and it wouldbe, it was very sparing, very sparingly,
you know, and then with, as with a lotof things, it's all about accessibility.
(06:45):
I started to get to the point whereit was around me all the time and
really easy to get my hands on whichis really problematic, you know?
And so, yeah, I mean, I wentyears where I would do it a
little bit here or there and.
Maybe, you know, stay up for aday or two, you know, doing it
and drinking to stay leveled out.
So you're not tweaking.
And it just got to the point, you know,where there was a few different times.
(07:05):
There was one time, you know, wherefive years ago where I took six months
off of and it never did coke andit was fine, you know, and then you
just slowly kind of get back into it.
And you know, as I mentioned in thearticle that you read, which kind of
led us here you know, I would do itmaybe once a month, you know, I'd get
drunk and someone have it and the nextthing you know, I'm in my apartment
and more people, I text people and theybring me some by and you know, I'd be
(07:26):
in denial about how much I would do.
So I never did the bulk discount.
I was always just getting one little gramat a time, you know, cause I'm like, Oh,
this will, I'm just going to do this.
I'll be done next to, you know,that same person's come over three
or four times because you're justcaught in that loop and then, so it
would get to the point, you know,where I was maybe every other month.
Would miss a day of work because Ikind of just stayed up from the night
(07:47):
before and I just didn't want to stop.
And I just kept going and going andI would text or call or try to get
whatever need covered, get covered.
And, you know, in my mind, I'mlike, I'm still, I'm pulling it off.
And then, you know, I talkedto my boss and my coworker and
they're like, Hey, you're not,you're not really pulling it off.
Like you're stressing, you'restressing us out like crazy, dude.
Like you need to get your shit together.
I don't know.
(08:08):
Am I allowed to curse out here?
Mike (08:09):
Oh yeah.
And you, and you, andyou BS'ed them, right?
I got this.
I got this.
Jordan (08:14):
Yeah.
Well, you're just like, okay, Iwas doing the work hard, play hard.
You know, I was working 70 hour weeks.
I've always been in kind of a grinderfrom a work standpoint, you know,
I dropped out of college and I'veworked my way up in the industry.
Which is always what I aim to do.
And I just, you know, work myass off and work a lot of hours.
And then that led to me justifyingthe party, you know, so I never,
(08:37):
you know, I wasn't drinking at work.
I wasn't doing coke here at work.
I would just go, you know, go outone night, start it and then just
keep going all the way through thenext day and then come in and just
hung over two days later, you know.
And I just kind of kept gettingaway with it and it started
becoming more and more frequent.
And I was just reallynot happy with my life.
I mean, I'd gotten up to 320 pounds andyou know, most people think like, Oh,
(08:58):
you're doing coke, like you're skinny.
Those are people that are likedoing little bits throughout
the day, all day, every day.
That's not what I was doing.
You know, I was, I'd like to eat.
I've got a podcast about eating,you know, so, and again, it's just,
everyone's problems are different andwhat triggers them are, are different.
And so it was just one of those thingswhere I got to the point where, you know,
(09:19):
I got over the years, you know, I've beenhere 10 years, there was two or three
times I'd kind of gotten admonished orsuffered some discipline of one sort or
the other and got my shit together fora while and was fine and Then it just
kind of came to this last time in 2022.
And I just went out for a steakdinner with friends one night.
And we had a great time that we go out todo karaoke and someone has coke and I do
(09:43):
some, and next thing I know, I ended updoing it for over a week straight and I
was just, just trying to burn it all down.
I was just, I was tired.
I was trying to get myself fired.
I was convinced that I neededto move to a different city.
I was so unhappy.
And all I could think to do was just,okay, let's just burn it all down.
At that point, my back would be upagainst the wall and I'll have no
(10:03):
choice but to do it right, you know?
And I was waiting for one of myfriends to come knock on my door
and like pull in, and no one did.
No one did.
They were texting me, they werecalling me, but they were like,
You're going to figure this shit out.
You know, we'll we're going tolet you kind of do it to yourself.
And then, you know, after a solid,you know, it ended up being a solid,
like 10 days had passed and I gotahold of you know, our owner who I
(10:25):
had been in contact with one day,he would be, you know, really laying
into me hard about what a piece ofshit I was being, which I deserved.
And then the next day hewas being sympathetic and
like, Hey, what's going on?
And it was just kind of backand forth on, you know, Hey,
pull your head out of your ass.
And also, Hey man, I'mgenuinely worried about you.
Like what, what is going on?
You know?
So he came and picked me up and tookme over to a local rehab facility.
(10:48):
You know, put, put the six grand forthe 10 day detox on his credit card.
Mike (10:53):
He did?
Jordan (10:54):
Yeah, I know.
I can't begin to tell you enough howgrateful I am for this for this man.
He's, he's helped me in so manyways, but yeah, I go go and do
the the detox for five days.
And then they move you over to theapartments where you have some roommates,
start doing classes and all that.
And at the end of 10 days, you know,They wanted me to sign all these
(11:16):
papers saying I was going to do IOPand I was going to do this and that
and I wasn't willing to do that.
I was just like, you know what?
I'm, in my mind, I've hit my rock bottom.
I'm going to be good from here.
I know what I need to do from here.
And so I didn't sign any other stuff.
I kind of had to raise hell.
I was fortunate, actually, that Ididn't have health insurance at the time
because otherwise it would have kept me.
But I, because of me being like,no, I'm not going to pay you,
(11:37):
they weren't willing to keep me.
So I was able to kind of get out after10 days and I started meeting with the
therapist once a week which I actuallyhad met with him once right before I went
off the deep end for that last bender.
And that was part of the reasonwhere I'm like, oh, I can go party.
I'm making steps.
I met with a therapist,you know, so silly.
So silly.
I'm there, you know, I met witha therapist, like, I'm doing
the right, I can, I can partya little bit tonight, you know.
(11:59):
So no, I start meeting with him weekly,and I start going to one meeting a week.
It was called Dharma Recovery.
It uses like Buddhist principles.
It's an hour a week.
It was actually at the rehab facility.
And because I, you know, back whenI had my DUI in 2013, I had some
court ordered AA classes assigned.
AA wasn't for me.
I wasn't I know a lot of peoplethat's been very grateful
and it just wasn't for me.
(12:20):
And so I didn't really wantto go back to try that.
So I did the one once a weekwith my therapist, once a week
with the Dharma recovery, whereabout 30 minutes of that hour was
meditation, which I really enjoyed.
And then, yeah, just time went on.
And I started meeting with the therapistless, going to the meeting less.
And so I've been, as of August1st was two years sober with,
(12:41):
you know, no alcohol, no cocaine.
No hard drugs.
And so I'm coming up on,yeah, two and a half years.
I don't go to any meetings anymore.
I DJ, so I'm in the bars.
I call bingo.
I'm like, I'm in the barsmultiple times a week.
And I'm just, I'm veryfortunate because it is.
Everyone has their own struggles.
So I'm very fortunate that I'm stillable to do a lot of the things that I
(13:01):
love to do, and it's not prohibitive tomy sobriety you know, in the long term.
Mike (13:06):
Well, I always ask this, somebody like that, because you
cannot not be around this stuff.
Jordan (13:12):
Right.
Mike (13:12):
So that had to be just a little nerve wracking DJing and being around
bars and thinking, can I do this?
So no cravings?
What do you do if you find yourmind wandering a little bit?
Jordan (13:24):
So the thing, what I found in the past, it's, it's
all just like that hard line.
As long as you don't leave yourself wiggleroom, I look for me, I've been fine.
It was like, to me, it'slike, I just don't drink now.
And that's just what I do.
And it's, it's just a non starter.
You know, I got out of rehab on a Tuesday.
That Thursday I went and didmy Thursday night bingo in a
college bar with 200 college kids.
I used to usually get drunk rightalong with them while I was calling
(13:46):
bingo, you know, making jokes.
And but part of it was the anxiety,you know, being in my early thirties
at the time with 200 college kids ona microphone for an hour and a half,
no matter how many times you do it,you're going to have some anxiety.
Mike (13:58):
Sure.
Jordan (13:58):
And so I used to drink along with them, but I went out against
my therapist's advice and he's like,you shouldn't go into a bar two
days after getting out of rehab.
But I felt pretty confident, again, wherelike no one knows me like I know me.
I know that I reached my rock bottom.
I feel very convictedthat I'm going to be fine.
And I went in and I was more looseon the mic than I had ever been.
(14:19):
I was having more fun than I had ever had.
And that was huge for me.
Because over the fall, you know,next coming months, the first few
months of sobriety, I would go outwith friends and realize that all the
times that I went out and had a goodtime wasn't because of the alcohol.
It's because I was in a goodmood and, you know, had energy.
All the times I went out and didn'thave a good time, wasn't because
(14:40):
I drank a certain kind of alcohol.
It's because I was tired.
I wasn't in a good mood.
So like if I can still go out and havea good time and it's all about, am I in
a good mood or like having a good timeif I'm just in a good mood and have
energy, you know, so it's not, it wasnever really the alcohol that made those.
Those good memories that you lookback on, you know, it wasn't, it
was just the people you were withand the mindset that you were in.
(15:01):
And so that was huge for me.
And that builds, it builds and builds.
The more you go out and have a good time.
And again, it's not for everybody.
Not everybody should go outif in their sobriety journey.
But I've been, again, very fortunatethat I've been able to and it's but
yeah, that first night, just gettingon that microphone and realizing
like, Oh, I don't need that shit.
Like I can do this without thealcohol and still have just
as much fun, if not more fun.
Mike (15:22):
What do you do on the flip side?
If you're having a bad day, what doyou use now as coping mechanisms?
To bring yourself back to even keel.
Do you still meditate?
Jordan (15:33):
No, you know, I don't, I should.
I, cause I really enjoy it.
I just, I really keepmyself very, very busy.
You know, I've got, Iwork a lot for this job.
I've got about three side hustles.
I stay, I'm on a couple of boards.
I just, I try to stay really busy.
And when I have a shittyday, I just, I very quickly.
I just know that drinking'snot, not gonna help anything.
(15:56):
And for me, it's all about the streak.
I don't want to ruin the streak.
I've got the streak going,you know what I mean?
Like, I'm not doing that.
Why would I waste that for one cocktail?
You know what I mean?
I went to Puerto Rico.
I could have easily drank, youknow, and nobody would have known,
but like, I don't want that.
I don't want to have to have.
I don't want to have tolie about my sobriety.
I don't want to have tohave that back in my head.
(16:17):
Like, oh, I've been sober for two anda half years, but I did go on this
vacation, got hammered a couple oftimes, you know, like, and I don't
know if that would break the seal.
You know, if I went and had onecocktail on vacation, who knows?
It might all be over when I come back.
And I'm like, and thenI start dabbling again.
And because it's something I'vethought about, I've thought about
drinking again in the future.
And if I could do that in a reasonableway without it leading to cocaine or,
(16:41):
you know, negative impact on my life.
Until I'm a hundred percent confidentthat it wouldn't lead to that.
I'm not going to do it.
And I don't think I'll ever bea hundred percent confident.
You know.
Mike (16:49):
That is such a boy, that's a podcast in itself.
I get asked that question all the time.
And my answer Jordan is maybe...
since you don't know, andit could kill you, right?
Jordan (17:03):
Yeah.
And things have just gone so well for meand that's where I'm also very lucky, very
fortunate because not everybody has that.
Some people come out and they're doingsobriety, you know, taking on sobriety
for the first time and they're six monthsinto it and some tragic stuff happens
and they look like, I've been very,very, very lucky for the people I have
around me, for my family, for my friends,for my coworkers, to where things have
(17:25):
just progressively gotten better overthe last two and a half years to where.
I would be such a fool to try torisk losing that or like not, you
know, kind of chase that high ofcontinued self improvement of buying
a house of, you know, things that Inever would have thought I could have
achieved two and a half years ago.
Mike (17:44):
You mentioned it earlier.
I came across your stuff onan article I was reading about
staying sober during the holidays.
And they come up every darn year.
Right?
The same articles.
And because the presumption is, well,of course people celebrate with alcohol.
Of course they celebrate with substances.
Don't you find it curious that, that italmost like you have to make an excuse
(18:08):
why you don't celebrate with substances?
Jordan (18:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's weird.
I mean, it's just, I mean, it'singrained in us in our society.
Where that's what you do.
You celebrate.
And that was one of the things forme when we did that steak dinner.
I can't remember what itwas, but we were celebrating.
I wasn't one that drank when I was down.
I was one that drank when I was up.
Cause I'm just like, yeah, like I'mfeeling like I would need a reward.
It was a reward system, you know?
And you mentioned earlier and Ididn't, I meant to touch on it.
(18:33):
I still do have cravings, even thoughthat wasn't necessarily like, but
it's more, it's more of like, man,I'd love to just taste that again,
or like I'll smell my friend's beer.
And it's just like,that's the part I do miss.
It's just that being able to have a,a nice, like taste, a nice Pinot Noir
or something like that, it's not somuch the feeling of getting drunk.
It's the.
Like just the taste of a nice, well puttogether cocktail or something like that.
(18:57):
And that's why, you know, I havethose thoughts about in the future.
But again, like I said, until you're ahundred percent sure, which you never will
be, it's not going to be worth the risk.
Mike (19:05):
Yeah.
I think a hard line, I thinkthat's such great advice.
The hard line is so important.
I work with a woman a long timeago who started, deviated from her
hard line with one Miller Sharps, anon alcoholic, low alcoholic beer.
And before long.
Everything went boom.
But that's, you know, moving off the line.
Jordan (19:25):
It's a slippery slope, yeah.
It's just cause I've talked withquite a few friends over the last
couple years that they're like, heyI've thought about stop drinking
this or that, I'm just like it's justa hard, it has to be a hard line.
The second you give yourselfany wiggle room, you're screwed.
Mike (19:38):
Well, what do you do?
Speaking of friends, you haveyou work in an industry, right?
You have tons of friends who still use.
What did you say to those people who wereusing Coke especially selling to you?
How did you form a hard line with thoserelationships or were they respectful?
Jordan (19:55):
Very respectful.
Again, one of those things that I'vejust been very blessed and fortunate
is surrounded by understanding people.
Even my old coke dealer, you know,I'll see him out and he's genuinely
happy for me, you know cause hecame by, he dropped off that last
bag on that 10 day bender and wasjust like, dude, what are you okay?
You know what I mean?
Like he still gave it to me,but it was genuinely just
(20:16):
like, what is going on, man?
Like you haven't leftyour apartment, you know?
And.
Yeah, it's, it is weird.
I still see him out and aboutand I see other people that I've
partied with over the years.
And again, and I've been, I've beenaround a few times now where, yeah,
there's been coke out and I see it.
And that's, that's weird.
It is, it is very weird.
(20:36):
The weirdest part for me isI, it's been over two and a
half years since I've done it.
And I don't really thinkabout it in my day to day.
Cause again, I don't, I'm justbusy and I don't really want to do
it unless I have that drunk buzzwhere that's when it sounds like a
good idea, but I still have dreams.
I still have dreams about it.
It's crazy.
Like I haven't waitedtables in over 10 years.
(20:56):
And I still have dreams about waitingtables and I'll, I will wake up and I'll,
I'll feel like I screwed it all up andit'll take me a good five minutes to
be like, whoa, that was just a dream.
You didn't actually screw up, butyeah, I still have dreams of getting
drunk and doing coke and I'm justlike, when is that going to stop?
You know, it's, I thought forsure by now I'd be past it.
Mike (21:17):
I don't know.
It was probably 15 years after my momquit smoking and she was at my house.
And one night, middle of the night, Ihear her hand pounding on the nightstand.
And I know she's dreaming.
She's looking for a cigarette.
And I burst out laughing.
I burst out laughing.
And from the other room,I said, Hey, Ma, you quit!
(21:38):
And she said, Oh, shut up!
And went back to sleep.
And she said she was dreaming.
That's, it's not unusual.
That's, you're not the first,nor will you be the last person
who says they dream about it.
Its just there.
Jordan (21:50):
I mean, you carry that.
I said five minutes, but I mean,you carry that for the good,
easily the first part of your day.
Just internally in your body of just thatstress where you're just like, something's
wrong, but I don't know what it was.
And then it's like, Oh, well, it wasjust this thing that wasn't reality.
But yeah, it's, it's wild.
Mike (22:06):
Well, and speaking of celebrating, I'll let you go with this.
I've been dying to ask this, right?
So The Chocolate Moose, well, onenext time I come to Bloomington,
I'm stopping there, right?
Jordan (22:17):
Yeah, absolutely, my treat.
Mike (22:19):
Do you have a flavor that celebrates sobriety?
And if, ifnot, why not?,
Jordan (22:26):
That's a great call.
I don't know.
We, we don't.
We don't.
I've never honestlythought about doing it.
Mike (22:32):
You
Jordan (22:32):
will now.
I was going to say, I've got the restof our management team and our owner
who walked in a few minutes ago,who's the guy that you know, I owe
so, so much to I will bring that up.
I think that would be a good,a good thing to promote.
There's a lot of really greatorganizations here in Bloomington.
Mike (22:46):
Oh yeah!
Jordan (22:46):
You know, Bloomington's got a ton of substance abuse issues that
are very heavy for a lot of peopleand a lot of great organizations here.
So we definitely could partnerwith one of them to try to promote
the work that they're doing.
Mike (22:58):
Oh, it'd be great.
Bill W's favorite.
Just call it that and call it a day.
Jordan (23:02):
Yeah, there we go.
Mike, can I, am I allowed to ask youjust very brief about your story?
Mike (23:07):
Sure.
Well, I grew up around it.
And so I made the oppositedecision when it was offered to me.
I said, uh uh, I don't want any partof this because I don't want to end
up like the people that I lived with,which is, and what I found through
my career, I've worked with it.
I wanted to stay away from it.
I started in education and thenwent to work in counseling.
(23:28):
And you know what?
No matter what you work with,if you work with people, you end
up working with substance abuse.
You just do.
Whether you're a therapist, whetheryou're a counselor, whether you're
a minister, whether you're a nurse,whether you're a doctor, a business
owner, you're going to work with it,and you better know how to handle it.
So finally, I just gave intoit, ran a couple of treatment
(23:49):
centers, and then they went under.
We don't have the same world thatwe did, because insurance doesn't
pay for a lot of stuff anymore.
Jordan (23:57):
Oh.
Mike (23:57):
And so I started doing prevention work instead.
And this is just part of that.
And these, this has been the mostdelightful, probably the last chapter in
my career, is doing something like this.
I still speak to tens of groups,and I love hearing the stories,
Jordan, they're just outstanding.
Jordan (24:13):
I love it.
Well, yeah, I mean, that'smy favorite part of doing my
podcast is just the people.
I, and just like hearing their stories.
You know, it's a different focus.
We're focused on the restaurantindustry and but yeah, it's just, I've
had people that I've known for years.
And I get to know so much more aboutthem when they come to the podcast.
So it's really enjoyable, butyeah, I'm so glad you reached
out and I get to share my story.
(24:34):
And if anyone ever wants to reachout to me about anything, I'm
happy to pass along my contact infoand help in any way that I can.
Mike (24:41):
A perfect...
people who listen all the time,know this, but we will put the links
to both the No Dishes and to TheChocolate Moose and your contact
information on the blurb to the podcast.
And for those of you who are travelingthrough Bloomington, just stop in.
The menu looks unbelievable.
And the ice cream looks unbelievable, too.
And that's from somebody who comesfrom the Dairy State, so there you go.
Jordan (25:03):
I appreciate it.
Yeah, that's the that's the statement ofapproval that I'm proud to, proud to wear.
I will say, in my first two yearsworking here, I put on 80 pounds.
Mike (25:12):
(laugh) I didn't even want to go there.
Jordan (25:14):
You know, they say don't trust a skinny chef.
If a skinny guy sells youice cream, you don't want it.
Mike (25:19):
(laugh) That is great.
Well, thanks, Jordan.
You know, Jordan's story aboutfinding new life happens all the time.
For those of you listening and watching,I hope you find life and support,
as Jordan did, wherever you are.
And for his boss, there'ssomething magical that happens.
Somebody like that, he will now,for the rest of his life, walk
through a wall for that guy.
(25:39):
Right?
Jordan (25:40):
Absolutely.
100%.
Yeah.
Mike (25:43):
For those of you listening, thanks for listening.
Be safe and go get a cone.
Jordan (25:47):
Thanks, Mike.
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
What happens when your talents,passion, and work collide head
on with a substance use disorder?
Well, that's a situation ourguest faced a couple of years ago.
(00:33):
Jordan Davis is the Director ofOperations for the Bloomington, Indiana
Ice Cream Shop, the Chocolate Moose,and host of the podcast No dishes.
Welcome, Jordan.
Jordan (00:45):
Hey, yeah.
Thanks for having me, Mike.
Mike (00:47):
I started giggling because I wanted to drop in and say, and it's also
partially sponsored by the ChocolateMoose, which would fit today, right?
Jordan (00:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Mike (00:56):
Well, let's start there.
Before we get off on to whathappened to you, talk a little
bit about The Chocolate Moose.
Man, I was reading about it.
There's quite a history there.
Yeah.
Jordan (01:04):
Yeah.
So, you know, I got very fortunate.
I came out about 10 and ahalf years ago and you can see
behind me this little drawing.
Mike (01:11):
Yeah.
Jordan (01:12):
Yeah.
There we go.
It was just a small little A framestand in the middle of a parking
lot, you know, and that stand youknow, had been there since 55.
I got torn down, I think in2017, but we've been on this
plot of land since 1933.
So, you know, quite a bit of history.
You know, it was called The Penguin,it was Maze Cafe, then The Penguin.
And then since 83, we'vebeen The Chocolate Moose.
(01:33):
Right around that time, Michael Jordanwas in Bloomington for the Olympic
trials with Bob Knight at Assembly Hall.
Sports Illustrated did a profile on himand said twice in their profile with
Michael Jordan, it said his favorite placein Bloomington was The Chocolate Moose.
Mike (01:45):
(laugh) Oh, that can't hurt!
Jordan (01:47):
Yeah, no, exactly.
And then our other little bitof lore we have is from Jack and
Diane when he says, Sucking on achili dog outside the Tasty Freeze.
In the music video, it'sactually at our stand.
You know, so Mellencamp stilllives here in Bloomington and
comes around all the time.
And so we've got the, should havethe world's most famous chili
dog from that alone, you know.
Mike (02:06):
That is great.
I did not read that.
That was great.
Jordan (02:09):
So we've expanded to a couple of locations and, you know, my 10
years and really have grown thebusiness quite a bit, we started with
the first weekly food truck events.
It's called Bloomington FoodTruck Friday, runs every Friday,
April through the end of October.
Draws, you know, a thousandor 2000 people every week.
And yeah, it's just been reallygreat to grow the business
and come on with a brand.
That means so much to so many peopleand just try not to screw it up.
(02:30):
You know, in my first couple ofweeks working, I had a couple of
come by and You know, they're like,Hey, this is our 50th anniversary.
So that's incredible.
They said our first date was here.
I was like, Oh, that's crazy!
(laugh) So it means a lot, you know,The Chocolate Moose means a lot to
a lot of people here in Bloomington.
So I just try to do right by them.
Mike (02:46):
Well, and when you're in a college town that's where
people cut their teeth too.
So I would imagine almost every football,basketball game, they come back and
you, you try to do something to thatplace and they're going to be mad.
Jordan (02:58):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, it was a PR nightmare when, youknow, the May family who had had this land
since 33, when Doran Doran May, who, youknow, built the stand with his father.
And when he decided to sell theproperty and he's still alive
and well here in town, but he'sretired and he's up there in years.
And he wanted to set up hisfamily, you know, for, you
know, generations potentially.
And so he decided to sellthe land to developers.
(03:19):
And I had to do all the media to be like,Hey, like, this wasn't our decision.
We're gonna try to makethe most out of it.
And Hey, if it was anyone'sdecision to make it to this
guy's, you know, his family.
So who are we to say that he shouldn't beable to set up his family in the long run?
So we've made the most out of it.
You know, now we have indoorseating and bathrooms.
We still have a walk up window.
And you know, all of the canvases in ourdining room pay homage to our history, so
(03:43):
we don't want it to be forgotten or lostbut yeah, it was really, really tough
when that stand had to come down, andnow we're in, you know, the classic you
know, four story retail on first floor.
You know, top three are apartmentsthat you see in a lot of places.
Mike (03:55):
Sure.
Well, and you also, I should mentionthis before I forget to do it.
You also host a podcast yourselfcalled No Dishes about culinary
gems in in Bloomington, right?
Jordan (04:05):
Yeah.
So we started that.
It sounds like you said, I knowyou said you've been going before
we recorded for four years.
We've been going for aboutfour, a little over four years.
We started in the middle of the pandemic.
I've worked in a restaurant my whole life.
You know, and originally the idea wasto get people coming off of work and
be like, here's a shot and a beer.
How was work?
You know?
And we very quickly realized that wasjust gonna be a lot of complaining.
(laugh) So we pivoted from that.
(04:27):
So we did three audio only seasons in myapartment and this is before I went sober.
So a lot of those old episodesthat we still have up on Spotify,
you know, we were cursing quite abit and drinking and imbibing, you
know, and then I went to rehab.
And we'll dive in all that, but we endedup, you know, just got a new producer.
The old producer was tired of my shit, andI don't blame him, you know, at the time.
(04:48):
And so, new guy came on, we started doingvideo and really kind of took it much
more seriously, and so now we're, youknow, on Tuesday, on the 31st our last
episode of season seven will come out.
We'll have done 48 episodes this week.
I think we're at 140 total, or I'msorry, this year, then about 140
total audio video, and we'll doseasons eight and nine, which will
be 40 total more episodes next year.
Mike (05:09):
Well, let's get into your stuff.
You know, like a lot of peoplewho, you know, drink or whatever.
At what point did you go, oh, thisis starting to become an issue?
Jordan (05:20):
Oh, man.
I mean, it's tough.
So in the industry, you know, so beforeI was with Chocolate Moose, I was serving
and bartending and curating cocktail listsand, you know, wine lists and doing all
that fun stuff, going to wine tastings.
It was part of the job.
And, you know, so it was just, I never,it's my, you know, I've always, I,
I obviously reflect quite a bit and,you know, I'm torn because in what
(05:43):
I've come to is I don't really think,I mean, I had, I abused alcohol 100%,
but I don't think I was really evergot to the point of being an alcoholic.
The problem was when cocaine came intothe picture, and that's when any, as
soon as you do one line of cocaine,you turn into an addict right away,
you know so it was, I found my, Ihave no desire to do cocaine sober.
(06:03):
So, the really nice part is that,so now I just avoid alcohol, and
I have no desire to do cocaine.
And it's not really super hard forme to avoid alcohol because that
wasn't what the real issue was with.
Again, I definitely abused it as manypeople in the industry do and have some
very regrettable nights from drinking.
And you know, I had a DUIback in 2013 when I was 23.
(06:24):
You know, that wasn't enoughto be my wake up call.
You know, everyone has their own, theirown point that they reach, you know?
And so I had started to dabblewith cocaine here and there back.
You know, when I was 22, 23, and it wouldbe, it was very sparing, very sparingly,
you know, and then with, as with a lotof things, it's all about accessibility.
(06:45):
I started to get to the point whereit was around me all the time and
really easy to get my hands on whichis really problematic, you know?
And so, yeah, I mean, I wentyears where I would do it a
little bit here or there and.
Maybe, you know, stay up for aday or two, you know, doing it
and drinking to stay leveled out.
So you're not tweaking.
And it just got to the point, you know,where there was a few different times.
(07:05):
There was one time, you know, wherefive years ago where I took six months
off of and it never did coke andit was fine, you know, and then you
just slowly kind of get back into it.
And you know, as I mentioned in thearticle that you read, which kind of
led us here you know, I would do itmaybe once a month, you know, I'd get
drunk and someone have it and the nextthing you know, I'm in my apartment
and more people, I text people and theybring me some by and you know, I'd be
(07:26):
in denial about how much I would do.
So I never did the bulk discount.
I was always just getting one little gramat a time, you know, cause I'm like, Oh,
this will, I'm just going to do this.
I'll be done next to, you know,that same person's come over three
or four times because you're justcaught in that loop and then, so it
would get to the point, you know,where I was maybe every other month.
Would miss a day of work because Ikind of just stayed up from the night
(07:47):
before and I just didn't want to stop.
And I just kept going and going andI would text or call or try to get
whatever need covered, get covered.
And, you know, in my mind, I'mlike, I'm still, I'm pulling it off.
And then, you know, I talkedto my boss and my coworker and
they're like, Hey, you're not,you're not really pulling it off.
Like you're stressing, you'restressing us out like crazy, dude.
Like you need to get your shit together.
I don't know.
(08:08):
Am I allowed to curse out here?
Mike (08:09):
Oh yeah.
And you, and you, andyou BS'ed them, right?
I got this.
I got this.
Jordan (08:14):
Yeah.
Well, you're just like, okay, Iwas doing the work hard, play hard.
You know, I was working 70 hour weeks.
I've always been in kind of a grinderfrom a work standpoint, you know,
I dropped out of college and I'veworked my way up in the industry.
Which is always what I aim to do.
And I just, you know, work myass off and work a lot of hours.
And then that led to me justifyingthe party, you know, so I never,
(08:37):
you know, I wasn't drinking at work.
I wasn't doing coke here at work.
I would just go, you know, go outone night, start it and then just
keep going all the way through thenext day and then come in and just
hung over two days later, you know.
And I just kind of kept gettingaway with it and it started
becoming more and more frequent.
And I was just reallynot happy with my life.
I mean, I'd gotten up to 320 pounds andyou know, most people think like, Oh,
(08:58):
you're doing coke, like you're skinny.
Those are people that are likedoing little bits throughout
the day, all day, every day.
That's not what I was doing.
You know, I was, I'd like to eat.
I've got a podcast about eating,you know, so, and again, it's just,
everyone's problems are different andwhat triggers them are, are different.
And so it was just one of those thingswhere I got to the point where, you know,
(09:19):
I got over the years, you know, I've beenhere 10 years, there was two or three
times I'd kind of gotten admonished orsuffered some discipline of one sort or
the other and got my shit together fora while and was fine and Then it just
kind of came to this last time in 2022.
And I just went out for a steakdinner with friends one night.
And we had a great time that we go out todo karaoke and someone has coke and I do
(09:43):
some, and next thing I know, I ended updoing it for over a week straight and I
was just, just trying to burn it all down.
I was just, I was tired.
I was trying to get myself fired.
I was convinced that I neededto move to a different city.
I was so unhappy.
And all I could think to do was just,okay, let's just burn it all down.
At that point, my back would be upagainst the wall and I'll have no
(10:03):
choice but to do it right, you know?
And I was waiting for one of myfriends to come knock on my door
and like pull in, and no one did.
No one did.
They were texting me, they werecalling me, but they were like,
You're going to figure this shit out.
You know, we'll we're going tolet you kind of do it to yourself.
And then, you know, after a solid,you know, it ended up being a solid,
like 10 days had passed and I gotahold of you know, our owner who I
(10:25):
had been in contact with one day,he would be, you know, really laying
into me hard about what a piece ofshit I was being, which I deserved.
And then the next day hewas being sympathetic and
like, Hey, what's going on?
And it was just kind of backand forth on, you know, Hey,
pull your head out of your ass.
And also, Hey man, I'mgenuinely worried about you.
Like what, what is going on?
You know?
So he came and picked me up and tookme over to a local rehab facility.
(10:48):
You know, put, put the six grand forthe 10 day detox on his credit card.
Mike (10:53):
He did?
Jordan (10:54):
Yeah, I know.
I can't begin to tell you enough howgrateful I am for this for this man.
He's, he's helped me in so manyways, but yeah, I go go and do
the the detox for five days.
And then they move you over to theapartments where you have some roommates,
start doing classes and all that.
And at the end of 10 days, you know,They wanted me to sign all these
(11:16):
papers saying I was going to do IOPand I was going to do this and that
and I wasn't willing to do that.
I was just like, you know what?
I'm, in my mind, I've hit my rock bottom.
I'm going to be good from here.
I know what I need to do from here.
And so I didn't sign any other stuff.
I kind of had to raise hell.
I was fortunate, actually, that Ididn't have health insurance at the time
because otherwise it would have kept me.
But I, because of me being like,no, I'm not going to pay you,
(11:37):
they weren't willing to keep me.
So I was able to kind of get out after10 days and I started meeting with the
therapist once a week which I actuallyhad met with him once right before I went
off the deep end for that last bender.
And that was part of the reasonwhere I'm like, oh, I can go party.
I'm making steps.
I met with a therapist,you know, so silly.
So silly.
I'm there, you know, I met witha therapist, like, I'm doing
the right, I can, I can partya little bit tonight, you know.
(11:59):
So no, I start meeting with him weekly,and I start going to one meeting a week.
It was called Dharma Recovery.
It uses like Buddhist principles.
It's an hour a week.
It was actually at the rehab facility.
And because I, you know, back whenI had my DUI in 2013, I had some
court ordered AA classes assigned.
AA wasn't for me.
I wasn't I know a lot of peoplethat's been very grateful
and it just wasn't for me.
(12:20):
And so I didn't really wantto go back to try that.
So I did the one once a weekwith my therapist, once a week
with the Dharma recovery, whereabout 30 minutes of that hour was
meditation, which I really enjoyed.
And then, yeah, just time went on.
And I started meeting with the therapistless, going to the meeting less.
And so I've been, as of August1st was two years sober with,
(12:41):
you know, no alcohol, no cocaine.
No hard drugs.
And so I'm coming up on,yeah, two and a half years.
I don't go to any meetings anymore.
I DJ, so I'm in the bars.
I call bingo.
I'm like, I'm in the barsmultiple times a week.
And I'm just, I'm veryfortunate because it is.
Everyone has their own struggles.
So I'm very fortunate that I'm stillable to do a lot of the things that I
(13:01):
love to do, and it's not prohibitive tomy sobriety you know, in the long term.
Mike (13:06):
Well, I always ask this, somebody like that, because you
cannot not be around this stuff.
Jordan (13:12):
Right.
Mike (13:12):
So that had to be just a little nerve wracking DJing and being around
bars and thinking, can I do this?
So no cravings?
What do you do if you find yourmind wandering a little bit?
Jordan (13:24):
So the thing, what I found in the past, it's, it's
all just like that hard line.
As long as you don't leave yourself wiggleroom, I look for me, I've been fine.
It was like, to me, it'slike, I just don't drink now.
And that's just what I do.
And it's, it's just a non starter.
You know, I got out of rehab on a Tuesday.
That Thursday I went and didmy Thursday night bingo in a
college bar with 200 college kids.
I used to usually get drunk rightalong with them while I was calling
(13:46):
bingo, you know, making jokes.
And but part of it was the anxiety,you know, being in my early thirties
at the time with 200 college kids ona microphone for an hour and a half,
no matter how many times you do it,you're going to have some anxiety.
Mike (13:58):
Sure.
Jordan (13:58):
And so I used to drink along with them, but I went out against
my therapist's advice and he's like,you shouldn't go into a bar two
days after getting out of rehab.
But I felt pretty confident, again, wherelike no one knows me like I know me.
I know that I reached my rock bottom.
I feel very convictedthat I'm going to be fine.
And I went in and I was more looseon the mic than I had ever been.
(14:19):
I was having more fun than I had ever had.
And that was huge for me.
Because over the fall, you know,next coming months, the first few
months of sobriety, I would go outwith friends and realize that all the
times that I went out and had a goodtime wasn't because of the alcohol.
It's because I was in a goodmood and, you know, had energy.
All the times I went out and didn'thave a good time, wasn't because
(14:40):
I drank a certain kind of alcohol.
It's because I was tired.
I wasn't in a good mood.
So like if I can still go out and havea good time and it's all about, am I in
a good mood or like having a good timeif I'm just in a good mood and have
energy, you know, so it's not, it wasnever really the alcohol that made those.
Those good memories that you lookback on, you know, it wasn't, it
was just the people you were withand the mindset that you were in.
(15:01):
And so that was huge for me.
And that builds, it builds and builds.
The more you go out and have a good time.
And again, it's not for everybody.
Not everybody should go outif in their sobriety journey.
But I've been, again, very fortunatethat I've been able to and it's but
yeah, that first night, just gettingon that microphone and realizing
like, Oh, I don't need that shit.
Like I can do this without thealcohol and still have just
as much fun, if not more fun.
Mike (15:22):
What do you do on the flip side?
If you're having a bad day, what doyou use now as coping mechanisms?
To bring yourself back to even keel.
Do you still meditate?
Jordan (15:33):
No, you know, I don't, I should.
I, cause I really enjoy it.
I just, I really keepmyself very, very busy.
You know, I've got, Iwork a lot for this job.
I've got about three side hustles.
I stay, I'm on a couple of boards.
I just, I try to stay really busy.
And when I have a shittyday, I just, I very quickly.
I just know that drinking'snot, not gonna help anything.
(15:56):
And for me, it's all about the streak.
I don't want to ruin the streak.
I've got the streak going,you know what I mean?
Like, I'm not doing that.
Why would I waste that for one cocktail?
You know what I mean?
I went to Puerto Rico.
I could have easily drank, youknow, and nobody would have known,
but like, I don't want that.
I don't want to have to have.
I don't want to have tolie about my sobriety.
I don't want to have tohave that back in my head.
(16:17):
Like, oh, I've been sober for two anda half years, but I did go on this
vacation, got hammered a couple oftimes, you know, like, and I don't
know if that would break the seal.
You know, if I went and had onecocktail on vacation, who knows?
It might all be over when I come back.
And I'm like, and thenI start dabbling again.
And because it's something I'vethought about, I've thought about
drinking again in the future.
And if I could do that in a reasonableway without it leading to cocaine or,
(16:41):
you know, negative impact on my life.
Until I'm a hundred percent confidentthat it wouldn't lead to that.
I'm not going to do it.
And I don't think I'll ever bea hundred percent confident.
You know.
Mike (16:49):
That is such a boy, that's a podcast in itself.
I get asked that question all the time.
And my answer Jordan is maybe...
since you don't know, andit could kill you, right?
Jordan (17:03):
Yeah.
And things have just gone so well for meand that's where I'm also very lucky, very
fortunate because not everybody has that.
Some people come out and they're doingsobriety, you know, taking on sobriety
for the first time and they're six monthsinto it and some tragic stuff happens
and they look like, I've been very,very, very lucky for the people I have
around me, for my family, for my friends,for my coworkers, to where things have
(17:25):
just progressively gotten better overthe last two and a half years to where.
I would be such a fool to try torisk losing that or like not, you
know, kind of chase that high ofcontinued self improvement of buying
a house of, you know, things that Inever would have thought I could have
achieved two and a half years ago.
Mike (17:44):
You mentioned it earlier.
I came across your stuff onan article I was reading about
staying sober during the holidays.
And they come up every darn year.
Right?
The same articles.
And because the presumption is, well,of course people celebrate with alcohol.
Of course they celebrate with substances.
Don't you find it curious that, that italmost like you have to make an excuse
(18:08):
why you don't celebrate with substances?
Jordan (18:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's weird.
I mean, it's just, I mean, it'singrained in us in our society.
Where that's what you do.
You celebrate.
And that was one of the things forme when we did that steak dinner.
I can't remember what itwas, but we were celebrating.
I wasn't one that drank when I was down.
I was one that drank when I was up.
Cause I'm just like, yeah, like I'mfeeling like I would need a reward.
It was a reward system, you know?
And you mentioned earlier and Ididn't, I meant to touch on it.
(18:33):
I still do have cravings, even thoughthat wasn't necessarily like, but
it's more, it's more of like, man,I'd love to just taste that again,
or like I'll smell my friend's beer.
And it's just like,that's the part I do miss.
It's just that being able to have a,a nice, like taste, a nice Pinot Noir
or something like that, it's not somuch the feeling of getting drunk.
It's the.
Like just the taste of a nice, well puttogether cocktail or something like that.
(18:57):
And that's why, you know, I havethose thoughts about in the future.
But again, like I said, until you're ahundred percent sure, which you never will
be, it's not going to be worth the risk.
Mike (19:05):
Yeah.
I think a hard line, I thinkthat's such great advice.
The hard line is so important.
I work with a woman a long timeago who started, deviated from her
hard line with one Miller Sharps, anon alcoholic, low alcoholic beer.
And before long.
Everything went boom.
But that's, you know, moving off the line.
Jordan (19:25):
It's a slippery slope, yeah.
It's just cause I've talked withquite a few friends over the last
couple years that they're like, heyI've thought about stop drinking
this or that, I'm just like it's justa hard, it has to be a hard line.
The second you give yourselfany wiggle room, you're screwed.
Mike (19:38):
Well, what do you do?
Speaking of friends, you haveyou work in an industry, right?
You have tons of friends who still use.
What did you say to those people who wereusing Coke especially selling to you?
How did you form a hard line with thoserelationships or were they respectful?
Jordan (19:55):
Very respectful.
Again, one of those things that I'vejust been very blessed and fortunate
is surrounded by understanding people.
Even my old coke dealer, you know,I'll see him out and he's genuinely
happy for me, you know cause hecame by, he dropped off that last
bag on that 10 day bender and wasjust like, dude, what are you okay?
You know what I mean?
Like he still gave it to me,but it was genuinely just
(20:16):
like, what is going on, man?
Like you haven't leftyour apartment, you know?
And.
Yeah, it's, it is weird.
I still see him out and aboutand I see other people that I've
partied with over the years.
And again, and I've been, I've beenaround a few times now where, yeah,
there's been coke out and I see it.
And that's, that's weird.
It is, it is very weird.
(20:36):
The weirdest part for me isI, it's been over two and a
half years since I've done it.
And I don't really thinkabout it in my day to day.
Cause again, I don't, I'm justbusy and I don't really want to do
it unless I have that drunk buzzwhere that's when it sounds like a
good idea, but I still have dreams.
I still have dreams about it.
It's crazy.
Like I haven't waitedtables in over 10 years.
(20:56):
And I still have dreams about waitingtables and I'll, I will wake up and I'll,
I'll feel like I screwed it all up andit'll take me a good five minutes to
be like, whoa, that was just a dream.
You didn't actually screw up, butyeah, I still have dreams of getting
drunk and doing coke and I'm justlike, when is that going to stop?
You know, it's, I thought forsure by now I'd be past it.
Mike (21:17):
I don't know.
It was probably 15 years after my momquit smoking and she was at my house.
And one night, middle of the night, Ihear her hand pounding on the nightstand.
And I know she's dreaming.
She's looking for a cigarette.
And I burst out laughing.
I burst out laughing.
And from the other room,I said, Hey, Ma, you quit!
(21:38):
And she said, Oh, shut up!
And went back to sleep.
And she said she was dreaming.
That's, it's not unusual.
That's, you're not the first,nor will you be the last person
who says they dream about it.
Its just there.
Jordan (21:50):
I mean, you carry that.
I said five minutes, but I mean,you carry that for the good,
easily the first part of your day.
Just internally in your body of just thatstress where you're just like, something's
wrong, but I don't know what it was.
And then it's like, Oh, well, it wasjust this thing that wasn't reality.
But yeah, it's, it's wild.
Mike (22:06):
Well, and speaking of celebrating, I'll let you go with this.
I've been dying to ask this, right?
So The Chocolate Moose, well, onenext time I come to Bloomington,
I'm stopping there, right?
Jordan (22:17):
Yeah, absolutely, my treat.
Mike (22:19):
Do you have a flavor that celebrates sobriety?
And if, ifnot, why not?,
Jordan (22:26):
That's a great call.
I don't know.
We, we don't.
We don't.
I've never honestlythought about doing it.
Mike (22:32):
You
Jordan (22:32):
will now.
I was going to say, I've got the restof our management team and our owner
who walked in a few minutes ago,who's the guy that you know, I owe
so, so much to I will bring that up.
I think that would be a good,a good thing to promote.
There's a lot of really greatorganizations here in Bloomington.
Mike (22:46):
Oh yeah!
Jordan (22:46):
You know, Bloomington's got a ton of substance abuse issues that
are very heavy for a lot of peopleand a lot of great organizations here.
So we definitely could partnerwith one of them to try to promote
the work that they're doing.
Mike (22:58):
Oh, it'd be great.
Bill W's favorite.
Just call it that and call it a day.
Jordan (23:02):
Yeah, there we go.
Mike, can I, am I allowed to ask youjust very brief about your story?
Mike (23:07):
Sure.
Well, I grew up around it.
And so I made the oppositedecision when it was offered to me.
I said, uh uh, I don't want any partof this because I don't want to end
up like the people that I lived with,which is, and what I found through
my career, I've worked with it.
I wanted to stay away from it.
I started in education and thenwent to work in counseling.
(23:28):
And you know what?
No matter what you work with,if you work with people, you end
up working with substance abuse.
You just do.
Whether you're a therapist, whetheryou're a counselor, whether you're
a minister, whether you're a nurse,whether you're a doctor, a business
owner, you're going to work with it,and you better know how to handle it.
So finally, I just gave intoit, ran a couple of treatment
(23:49):
centers, and then they went under.
We don't have the same world thatwe did, because insurance doesn't
pay for a lot of stuff anymore.
Jordan (23:57):
Oh.
Mike (23:57):
And so I started doing prevention work instead.
And this is just part of that.
And these, this has been the mostdelightful, probably the last chapter in
my career, is doing something like this.
I still speak to tens of groups,and I love hearing the stories,
Jordan, they're just outstanding.
Jordan (24:13):
I love it.
Well, yeah, I mean, that'smy favorite part of doing my
podcast is just the people.
I, and just like hearing their stories.
You know, it's a different focus.
We're focused on the restaurantindustry and but yeah, it's just, I've
had people that I've known for years.
And I get to know so much more aboutthem when they come to the podcast.
So it's really enjoyable, butyeah, I'm so glad you reached
out and I get to share my story.
(24:34):
And if anyone ever wants to reachout to me about anything, I'm
happy to pass along my contact infoand help in any way that I can.
Mike (24:41):
A perfect...
people who listen all the time,know this, but we will put the links
to both the No Dishes and to TheChocolate Moose and your contact
information on the blurb to the podcast.
And for those of you who are travelingthrough Bloomington, just stop in.
The menu looks unbelievable.
And the ice cream looks unbelievable, too.
And that's from somebody who comesfrom the Dairy State, so there you go.
Jordan (25:03):
I appreciate it.
Yeah, that's the that's the statement ofapproval that I'm proud to, proud to wear.
I will say, in my first two yearsworking here, I put on 80 pounds.
Mike (25:12):
(laugh) I didn't even want to go there.
Jordan (25:14):
You know, they say don't trust a skinny chef.
If a skinny guy sells youice cream, you don't want it.
Mike (25:19):
(laugh) That is great.
Well, thanks, Jordan.
You know, Jordan's story aboutfinding new life happens all the time.
For those of you listening and watching,I hope you find life and support,
as Jordan did, wherever you are.
And for his boss, there'ssomething magical that happens.
Somebody like that, he will now,for the rest of his life, walk
through a wall for that guy.
(25:39):
Right?
Jordan (25:40):
Absolutely.
100%.
Yeah.
Mike (25:43):
For those of you listening, thanks for listening.
Be safe and go get a cone.
Jordan (25:47):
Thanks, Mike.
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