July 23, 2025 • 26 mins
Different cultures look at health in different ways. Sometimes we are enticed by quick fixes and marketing. Lis Schmelzer discusses the role genetics plays on our health and the effects on our health from the choices we make. What we consume affects all our bodies’ systems. The only long-term solution is developing healthy habits and choices. Lis is a Clinical Nutritionist, Nutrition Sales Executive, and wellness advocate. Additional information and Lis’s contact information can be found at https://nourishwisconsin.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding Addiction Affliction,brought to you by Westwords Consulting,
the Kenosha County Substance Use DisorderCoalition, and by a grant from the State
of Wisconsin's Dose Reality Real Talks.
A little while ago, we had a greatconversation about functional
medicine with Lis Schmelzer.
(00:32):
We wanted to follow up thatconversation today about the
impact of genetics, supplements,a little thing called caffeine.
If you recall Lis as a clinicalnutritionist, nutrition sales executive
and wellness advocate, and we hada great conversation last time.
Welcome back, Lis.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I got a lot of compliments on our lastconversation and people who you think
(00:55):
everybody knows things, but refresh us.
For those who haven't heard itand maybe didn't hear us last
time, what is functional medicine?
Sure.
So it's an evidence-based modelof individualized care and it
focuses on the interconnectednessof everybodies system to uncover
the true foundational root cause.
And it considers all the differentcomplexities of what influences
(01:18):
our health, like genetics,lifestyle, and nutrition.
That's great.
I couldn't do that if you paid me.
(laughs) That's terrific.
Okay, so let's get into it then.
I'm allergic to a few things.
Strawberries, shellfish.
I didn't ask for that.
It just happened.
(01:38):
Turns out some members of my family arealso allergic to some of the same things.
Genetics play a role in our health.
Yes.
Absolutely.
So what was your journey with discoveringthat you were allergic to these things?
Well, that's really interestingyou should say that because I
wasn't always allergic to that.
(01:58):
And then one day I was eating shrimpwhen I was 40 and I got hives.
And I went, well, that's kind of weird.
And then the next time I ate it, I neededto go to the ER for a shot of whatever
the Benadryl, whatever they give you.
And then a doctor said to me, yeah, youcan develop these allergies later in life.
(02:21):
You're not always born with them, but youmay be genetically predisposed to them.
So the trip was finding outwas being exposed to them.
Right.
So an allergy is an immune responseand like what you just described
with recalling your allergies.
So your first exposure compared to yoursubsequent exposure was very different.
(02:46):
So the more you're exposed, the faster andmore intense the response is, which is why
you first experienced hives and then youhad an anaphylactic response after that.
And so that is definitely tied toour unique genetic makeup, but also
the Nutrigenomics side of genetics.
(03:08):
So we have our genetic makeup thatinfluences our immune response, but
then we also have Nutrigenomics,which is the individualized study
of how food and nutrients willinfluence our gene expression.
So we actually can turn genes onand off and turn variants on and off
(03:28):
depending on what we are exposed tothrough our diet and our environment.
So does that mean if I would'venever had crab legs in my twenties
or thirties, that I might not haveever experienced a shellfish allergy?
No.
We still have inherited genes, butat some point throughout your health
(03:52):
journey, something changed the way thatyour gene was expressing how your body
reacted to those specific nutrients.
Do we understand thosemechanisms about what happened?
Yes.
So we have different biomarkers andtesting that we can do, but really
with a true allergic response.
(04:15):
You have these reference indicators.
So your pro-inflammatory cells, which wesort of touched on in the last interview.
So our pro-inflammatory cells, and thenwe also have an increased production
of our immunoglobulin E, so IgE.
And then that increases therelease of histamine and
(04:38):
other inflammatory, hormones.
And so this is actually calledmass cell degranulation.
And again, going back to yourexposure level over time, that's
what influences the intensity of it.
Hmm.
On my dad's side of thefamily, he died at 70.
(04:58):
He came from a familyof I believe seven kids.
I had an uncle live to late nineties.
An aunt lived to late nineties.
The difference between the two of 'emwas they took better care of themselves.
My dad did not.
So genetics play a role, but also what weput into our body plays a role as well.
(05:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So the interesting thing withNutrigenomics is that our immune response
can also give us signals or signs ofnutrient excess or nutrient depletion.
And it obviously it's more thanthat, but as a trained clinical
(05:40):
nutritionist during a nutritionassessment, I know what to look for.
So, as an example, niacinor a vitamin B three.
If we're above the threshold of 35milligrams, that can cause a histamine
release, which is why it presents asfacial flushing, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it does.
(06:01):
Are we also then genetically predisposedto things even like the sun from the
different chemicals we have in our body?
There's a gene for everything.
(laughs)
(laughs) I wish I would'vehad got the gene for talent.
It would've been good.
Right.
You know it suggests thoughthat if I take decent care of
(06:22):
myself, my genetics are okay.
Yeah.
I mean, again, it goes backto the whole self care.
So diet, lifestyle, physicalactivity, environment.
And I know we wanna havea third conversation about
addiction down the road.
But I would imagine that italso works that way with that.
(06:46):
For instance, when I go in fora medical procedure, I come out
of anesthesia really quickly.
It affects me not at all.
Okay.
Uh, I never am nauseous.
I'm hungry right afterwards.
Other people, it makes violently ill.
Well, is it surprising my, both my parentswere addicted to alcohol and depressants.
(07:08):
On the other hand,stimulants drive me nuts.
Okay.
That's really interesting.
And I'm gonna check into that afterthis conversation on what the gene
is for metabolising anesthesia,because that's really interesting.
There's a correlation there.
You know, they always askyou, what is your weight?
(07:29):
How do you tolerate?
You know, and it's like, it seems it's notreally a guess because those guys get paid
and women get paid a ton of money, right.
To be able to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, let's talk about the stimulantsfor a minute and, and a big one.
You're younger than me.
I don't know if you remember this.
Back in the day therewas a commercial on tv.
Do the Dew!
Mm-hmm.
(07:49):
And it showed people doing all sorts ofelaborate things, and it was the, one of
the first beverages with wide mouth cans,which encouraged young people to chug it.
Mm-hmm.
Because it allowed more of the fluidin, and, and therefore, Mountain
Dew ended up with this reputationas being oh, just this wild, highly
(08:09):
caffeinated beverage that parentsshould keep their kids away from.
Mm-hmm.
How does Mountain Dew stack up today?
Well, that's a, probably one ofthe biggest misconceptions with
soda is the caffeine content.
So a 12 ounce can of Mountain Dewonly has 54 milligrams of caffeine.
(08:31):
And if you compare that to aneight ounce cup of coffee, an
eight ounce cup of coffee has95 to 150 milligrams of caffeine
depending on how you're brewing it.
And so.
You know, the question is posedwell, why is soda so energizing,
or why does it seem so energizing?
And it comes back to adifferent ingredient, which
(08:54):
is sugar and refined sugar.
And so one 12 ounce can of Mountain Dewhas 46 grams of sugar in it, which is
equal to 11 and a half teaspoons of sugar.
So imagine brewing your coffee in themorning and then adding 12 teaspoons
of sugar to one cup of coffee.
(09:16):
And that's really wheresoda gives the energy spike.
But, going back to caffeine,the FDA considers caffeine as a
food additive and a drug, and itclassifies it as a central nervous
system stimulant, as you mentioned.
And so tying this all into Nutrigenomics.
Everyone has a gene calledCYP or CYP one A two.
(09:41):
And I know gene gene names arenot attractive by any means, but
it's named for the CytochromeP 450 liver metabolic pathway.
And so this gene is responsiblefor how we metabolize caffeine.
And there are two gene variants that arevery common with this particular gene.
And it causes fast caffeine metabolisersand slow caffeine metabolisers.
(10:07):
So earlier you mentioned thatstimulants really affect you.
Yes.
So I would bet you and I fall intothe same category as being slow
metabolisers of caffeine because I amalso highly impacted by caffeine and
i'll get the jitters and I definitelyexperience insomnia if I have caffeine
(10:30):
after a certain time in the day.
But fast metabolisers like myfather-in-law, he is completely
unaffected by caffeine.
So he can brew and afterdinner cup of coffee and still
be able to sleep just fine.
And so he is a fast metaboliser whoyou still have the increased alertness
without all the negative side effects.
(10:53):
And so because of these two commongene variants, researchers examined how
they affect the risk of other healthconcerns, and one of them was a heart
attack or a myocardial infarction.
And so for the ultra slow metabolisers,like myself, drinking four or more
(11:14):
cups of coffee per day was associatedwith a 30% higher risk of heart attack.
Conversely, the fast metabolisers candrink one to three cups of coffee a
day, and it'll act as a protectantagainst cardiovascular disease.
So, so wait, so that means that folkslike me are at a higher risk if I
(11:36):
drink caffeine to heart attacks thanthose who metabolize it quicker?
Correct.
And so that's whereNutrigenomics is so critical in
preventative healthcare because.
If, I mean, like I said before, thereare genes for everything including how
we process sodium and other nutrients.
(11:57):
But if you're a slow metaboliser,you should avoid consuming more than
200 milligrams of caffeine per day.
Okay.
I know that anecdotally, right?
How does one find that out?
I mean, I'm due for an annualphysical in a couple weeks.
I've never heard some ofthese terms before, ever.
And so my guess is she'snot testing for that.
(12:17):
No, no.
I would not guess that conventionalproviders would be offering or
pursuing Nutrigenomic testing.
That's something that you wouldhave to work with a functional
healthcare provider to pursue that.
How do you, how do you get those numbers?
Do you, is it a blood test?
(12:37):
Is it, how does that come out?
It is a blood test.
Mm-hmm.
And so it can break it down into,okay, you're a fast metaboliser, this
slow of that, et cetera, et cetera,
Everything.
Mm-hmm.
Well, the effect of caffeineand you said your father-in-law
just can fall right asleep then.
Where you and I are up and I'mitching my arms and whatnot.
Yes.
(13:00):
And so there are other effectsthough, of consuming that on your
long-term health, just besidesthe heart attack, I would think.
Absolutely.
Obviously it disrupts our ability to fallasleep and stay asleep, but at a molecular
level, it's because it is blocking theneurotransmitter adenosine, which is our
sleep and relaxation chemical messenger.
(13:22):
So if we're blocking that we won't beable to fall asleep and stay asleep.
And additionally, it also causesdependency issues because it is
associated with enhancing theneurotransmitter dopamine, which we
spoke about last session as well.
Our pleasure and rewardcenter is affected.
(13:43):
And also it increases cortisoland adrenaline levels.
And these are our stress hormones.
And unfortunately, our bodyis not intelligent enough
to differentiate stress.
And the best way to explain that iswhen our body experiences a physical
or emotional threat like accidentallyplacing your hand on a hot burner.
(14:05):
Or are you being chasedthrough the woods by a bear?
Our body only perceives that we areexperiencing a threat, and so it
activates the fight or flight response.
And so these two hormones specificallythat caffeine increases cause increased
blood pressure, increased heart rate,and so again, our body is just perceiving
(14:30):
the stimulant caffeine as a stressor.
And I'm sure you're familiar withindividuals that have gerd, that have
been advised to limit or avoid caffeine.
That's because it also exacerbatesdigestive discomfort because it
stimulates acid production, and then italso interferes with multiple metabolic
(14:51):
pathways, and that's our body's way ofdetoxifying and eliminating toxins and
disrupting key nutrients being absorbed.
So you can see there's you know, seven oreight other ways that it can negatively
impact our short and long-term health.
Okay.
So let me be a normalAmerican for a minute.
(15:13):
So can I counteract the effects ofcaffeine late at night by popping a
couple of melatonin before I go to bed?
I
wouldn't say counter effect thecaffeine because it's still comes down
to how is your body metabolising it?
So metabolising means our body istaking a substance and it's breaking
(15:35):
it down into a different moleculethat we can excrete and eliminate.
So I'm just adding somethingelse onto my daily regime
instead of changing my regime.
Right.
And melatonin is not anegative thing by any means.
We need melatonin for sleep onset.
(15:55):
But the great thing now with all ofthese different alternatives is that
you can replace caffeine with otherthings like adaptogens or nootropics.
And actually one of my favoritethings that I have started
swapping out is mushroom coffee.
(16:16):
Go.
So it's just powdered mushroomsand it acts as an energizer without
the stimulating side effects ornegative impacts that you get from
a true stimulant like caffeine.
Okay.
Break that down just a little bit.
What does the mushroom do?
What does it stimulate in order to giveyou that little boost that you feel.
(16:41):
So it just positively impacts yourneurotransmitters and hormones in a
way that isn't causing any dependency.
Hmm.
So it's increasing your alertness,increasing your focus, increasing your
energy needs by modulating these hormonesand neurotransmitters in a positive way.
Well where do you get it?
(17:02):
You can get it pretty much anywhere,but I like to, I actually order mine
from a little apothecary in Milwaukeecalled the Tippy Canoe Apothecary.
Which is a great, and I'm not doing a plughere for any specific brand, but that's
one of my favorite mushroom coffees.
And is it expensive?
(17:26):
It can, I mean, it, it can be a little bitmore expensive than a $5 bag of ground.
Folgers.
Well, that's where I was goingtoo, is that sometimes we're
looking for quick, right?
Fast, cheap.
I have a friend of mine who's a physician.
And she said you wouldn't believe howpeople are mad at her if they walk out
(17:52):
of her office without a prescription.
We're looking for quick fixes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think, you know, it goesback to the complexities of
living a healthy lifestyle.
But really it is having the full circleapproach of sustainable, healthy choices
(18:18):
with diet and exercise and lifestyle.
And then it also ties into accessand the socioeconomics of how we
have these resources available to us.
Well, what's a healthysupplement look like, Lis?
Oh gosh.
So the supplement industry, and I'm surelisteners can probably relate to this,
(18:43):
can feel very overwhelming and noisy.
Oh, it's incredible!
Mm-hmm.
I have had the pleasure ofworking at a practitioner
grade supplement manufacturer.
And that was where I really had deep, deeptraining on the quality of supplements.
(19:04):
So I think first and foremost,what is motivating a consumer
to take a supplement?
Is it low energy?
Is it their immune health?
Is it for performance?
Stress management?
But then it really comes down tothe supplement manufacturer and
there are a few different levels.
So where are the rawmaterials coming from?
(19:28):
Number one, where are theseingredients coming from?
How is the manufacturertesting these ingredients?
Are they using an in-house lab?
Are they using a third party lab?
Is the lab certified?
And then I think one of the biggestmisconceptions is that the FDA
doesn't have any control overthis industry or this division of
(19:51):
healthcare, but they really do.
So there are supplement manufacturersthat have the FDA come in and audit their
entire manufacturing facility annually.
And so those are the manufacturersthat you want to look for.
Another certification is a CGMP, soit's good manufacturing practices.
(20:12):
And then are they testing everybatch or are they doing skip
testing, which is every other lot?
And the biggest thing withsafety is adulteration.
So whether it's intentional orunintentional, we need to know
is there truth in the labeling?
So how does the supplement manufacturerguarantee or prove that what they say
(20:35):
is in the supplement is truly what is inthe supplement for purity and potency.
And so identification of theingredients, but then also testing for
contaminants like microbes, mycotoxins,heavy metals, pesticides and if
the supplement manufacturer cannotsubstantiate their claims or prove
(20:57):
their claims, that's a huge red flag.
And being able as a consumer to pick upa supplement bottle and read the label
and understand the dosing, recognizingif the ingredients are first and foremost
safe, but are they also effective?
(21:18):
And then being able to understandthe purity and potency side of it.
And so the third piece to allof this is are there any drug
nutrient interactions or dietaryinteractions or toxicology risks?
And so my recommendation is that ifyou cannot confidently check off most
(21:42):
of those boxes, you would need tobe working with an individual who is
professionally trained, like a clinicalnutritionist or an integrative pharmacist
to ensure that your dosing in yoursupplements is safe and effective.
That's a lot, but that's really goodbecause I don't know where to go.
You know, right outside my pharmacy,there's a wall of vitamins and supplements
(22:08):
from different manufacturers, and theassumption I think is, hey, if they're
in the store, they must all be good.
Right.
And then the store today is, youknow, Amazon or online, and you
don't know if you're orderingsomething if it's decent or not.
Sometimes.
Yeah, if you can find a provider or aclinician to work with that can guide you
(22:31):
not necessarily sell you something, butjust to guide you so that you know that
what you're getting is safe and effective.
That is really importantwith supplement use.
Different cultures view thisin different ways, right?
And we live here.
So the quick fix again, some thingsare developed for one thing and then
they're used for something else.
(22:52):
Like, isn't ozempic or wasn'tit developed for, was it
diabetes or right?
Diabetes?
Mm-hmm.
And Wegovy and now it's weight lossand all of these people are, and that
just feeds into the psychology that,yeah, there is a quick fix out there.
Yeah, I think cardiometabolic illness isreally tricky because if you look at the
(23:15):
foundation of what is associated withcardiometabolic illness, it's obesity.
And so if we peel back the layers ofobesity, it can be very misunderstood
because it's not as simple ascalories in equals calories out.
And again, going back to the socioeconomicfactors with fresh food access and living
(23:39):
a sedentary lifestyle, and the geneticsand the health of our microbiome and
our sleep hygiene and stress management.
That all plays a role in our hormoneregulation and then the added
layer of behavioral psychology,because we do all experience an
emotional response with eating.
(24:00):
And so I think the researchers anddevelopers of those prescriptions
hopefully had good intentionsin mind with, okay, well what is
causing cardiometabolic illness?
Is obesity, and if we can helpsupport obesity or treat obesity,
(24:20):
that'll in turn have positiveimpacts on cardiometabolic illness.
This is so new though.
We don't have the long-term effectsof all this dramatic weight loss over
a quick period of time, though yet.
Right.
I want to ask you as a get outtahere question about lifestyle.
Long ago I used to run every day.
(24:41):
I know I wasn't supposed to.
Not in the way I was doing it 'causeI'm a bigger guy or whatever, and then I
couldn't anymore and it took me a while.
Now I bike every day.
I can't imagine a day where I don't do it.
It's just a part of the day.
How do you convince somebody to make thehard choices of taking care of yourself
rather than looking for the quick fix?
(25:05):
That's a great question.
And you know, every nutritionisthas their own philosophy.
For me, it's education.
It's providing the scientificallyresearched information to individuals
or clients that I'm working with sothat they feel empowered and they
make their own decisions and theyreally have autonomy when it comes to
their health and their preferences.
(25:27):
And everyone is at a differentplace in their health journey.
And so it's really important to methat I meet everybody where they are
at and to encourage and motivate them,and then to build that collaborative
partnership so that I'm not convincingthem, because when I hear the word
convince it makes me think of somethingthat's forceful or maybe not sustainable.
(25:51):
So I would say the biggest thing for me iseducation, providing the right resources.
That's great and that's whatwe're hoping to do here obviously.
Lis I really appreciate youbeing with us a second time.
I'm looking forward to the third time.
For all of you who arelistening, I hope you're finding
this as educational as I am.
Thanks for your thoughts,your expertise Lis.
(26:13):
And for those of you listening, we hopeyou find health wellness wherever you are.
Thanks for listening.
Be safe and take care of your whole self.
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding Addiction Affliction,brought to you by Westwords Consulting,
the Kenosha County Substance Use DisorderCoalition, and by a grant from the State
of Wisconsin's Dose Reality Real Talks.
A little while ago, we had a greatconversation about functional
medicine with Lis Schmelzer.
(00:32):
We wanted to follow up thatconversation today about the
impact of genetics, supplements,a little thing called caffeine.
If you recall Lis as a clinicalnutritionist, nutrition sales executive
and wellness advocate, and we hada great conversation last time.
Welcome back, Lis.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I got a lot of compliments on our lastconversation and people who you think
(00:55):
everybody knows things, but refresh us.
For those who haven't heard itand maybe didn't hear us last
time, what is functional medicine?
Sure.
So it's an evidence-based modelof individualized care and it
focuses on the interconnectednessof everybodies system to uncover
the true foundational root cause.
And it considers all the differentcomplexities of what influences
(01:18):
our health, like genetics,lifestyle, and nutrition.
That's great.
I couldn't do that if you paid me.
(laughs) That's terrific.
Okay, so let's get into it then.
I'm allergic to a few things.
Strawberries, shellfish.
I didn't ask for that.
It just happened.
(01:38):
Turns out some members of my family arealso allergic to some of the same things.
Genetics play a role in our health.
Yes.
Absolutely.
So what was your journey with discoveringthat you were allergic to these things?
Well, that's really interestingyou should say that because I
wasn't always allergic to that.
(01:58):
And then one day I was eating shrimpwhen I was 40 and I got hives.
And I went, well, that's kind of weird.
And then the next time I ate it, I neededto go to the ER for a shot of whatever
the Benadryl, whatever they give you.
And then a doctor said to me, yeah, youcan develop these allergies later in life.
(02:21):
You're not always born with them, but youmay be genetically predisposed to them.
So the trip was finding outwas being exposed to them.
Right.
So an allergy is an immune responseand like what you just described
with recalling your allergies.
So your first exposure compared to yoursubsequent exposure was very different.
(02:46):
So the more you're exposed, the faster andmore intense the response is, which is why
you first experienced hives and then youhad an anaphylactic response after that.
And so that is definitely tied toour unique genetic makeup, but also
the Nutrigenomics side of genetics.
(03:08):
So we have our genetic makeup thatinfluences our immune response, but
then we also have Nutrigenomics,which is the individualized study
of how food and nutrients willinfluence our gene expression.
So we actually can turn genes onand off and turn variants on and off
(03:28):
depending on what we are exposed tothrough our diet and our environment.
So does that mean if I would'venever had crab legs in my twenties
or thirties, that I might not haveever experienced a shellfish allergy?
No.
We still have inherited genes, butat some point throughout your health
(03:52):
journey, something changed the way thatyour gene was expressing how your body
reacted to those specific nutrients.
Do we understand thosemechanisms about what happened?
Yes.
So we have different biomarkers andtesting that we can do, but really
with a true allergic response.
(04:15):
You have these reference indicators.
So your pro-inflammatory cells, which wesort of touched on in the last interview.
So our pro-inflammatory cells, and thenwe also have an increased production
of our immunoglobulin E, so IgE.
And then that increases therelease of histamine and
(04:38):
other inflammatory, hormones.
And so this is actually calledmass cell degranulation.
And again, going back to yourexposure level over time, that's
what influences the intensity of it.
Hmm.
On my dad's side of thefamily, he died at 70.
(04:58):
He came from a familyof I believe seven kids.
I had an uncle live to late nineties.
An aunt lived to late nineties.
The difference between the two of 'emwas they took better care of themselves.
My dad did not.
So genetics play a role, but also what weput into our body plays a role as well.
(05:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So the interesting thing withNutrigenomics is that our immune response
can also give us signals or signs ofnutrient excess or nutrient depletion.
And it obviously it's more thanthat, but as a trained clinical
(05:40):
nutritionist during a nutritionassessment, I know what to look for.
So, as an example, niacinor a vitamin B three.
If we're above the threshold of 35milligrams, that can cause a histamine
release, which is why it presents asfacial flushing, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it does.
(06:01):
Are we also then genetically predisposedto things even like the sun from the
different chemicals we have in our body?
There's a gene for everything.
(laughs)
(laughs) I wish I would'vehad got the gene for talent.
It would've been good.
Right.
You know it suggests thoughthat if I take decent care of
(06:22):
myself, my genetics are okay.
Yeah.
I mean, again, it goes backto the whole self care.
So diet, lifestyle, physicalactivity, environment.
And I know we wanna havea third conversation about
addiction down the road.
But I would imagine that italso works that way with that.
(06:46):
For instance, when I go in fora medical procedure, I come out
of anesthesia really quickly.
It affects me not at all.
Okay.
Uh, I never am nauseous.
I'm hungry right afterwards.
Other people, it makes violently ill.
Well, is it surprising my, both my parentswere addicted to alcohol and depressants.
(07:08):
On the other hand,stimulants drive me nuts.
Okay.
That's really interesting.
And I'm gonna check into that afterthis conversation on what the gene
is for metabolising anesthesia,because that's really interesting.
There's a correlation there.
You know, they always askyou, what is your weight?
(07:29):
How do you tolerate?
You know, and it's like, it seems it's notreally a guess because those guys get paid
and women get paid a ton of money, right.
To be able to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, let's talk about the stimulantsfor a minute and, and a big one.
You're younger than me.
I don't know if you remember this.
Back in the day therewas a commercial on tv.
Do the Dew!
Mm-hmm.
(07:49):
And it showed people doing all sorts ofelaborate things, and it was the, one of
the first beverages with wide mouth cans,which encouraged young people to chug it.
Mm-hmm.
Because it allowed more of the fluidin, and, and therefore, Mountain
Dew ended up with this reputationas being oh, just this wild, highly
(08:09):
caffeinated beverage that parentsshould keep their kids away from.
Mm-hmm.
How does Mountain Dew stack up today?
Well, that's a, probably one ofthe biggest misconceptions with
soda is the caffeine content.
So a 12 ounce can of Mountain Dewonly has 54 milligrams of caffeine.
(08:31):
And if you compare that to aneight ounce cup of coffee, an
eight ounce cup of coffee has95 to 150 milligrams of caffeine
depending on how you're brewing it.
And so.
You know, the question is posedwell, why is soda so energizing,
or why does it seem so energizing?
And it comes back to adifferent ingredient, which
(08:54):
is sugar and refined sugar.
And so one 12 ounce can of Mountain Dewhas 46 grams of sugar in it, which is
equal to 11 and a half teaspoons of sugar.
So imagine brewing your coffee in themorning and then adding 12 teaspoons
of sugar to one cup of coffee.
(09:16):
And that's really wheresoda gives the energy spike.
But, going back to caffeine,the FDA considers caffeine as a
food additive and a drug, and itclassifies it as a central nervous
system stimulant, as you mentioned.
And so tying this all into Nutrigenomics.
Everyone has a gene calledCYP or CYP one A two.
(09:41):
And I know gene gene names arenot attractive by any means, but
it's named for the CytochromeP 450 liver metabolic pathway.
And so this gene is responsiblefor how we metabolize caffeine.
And there are two gene variants that arevery common with this particular gene.
And it causes fast caffeine metabolisersand slow caffeine metabolisers.
(10:07):
So earlier you mentioned thatstimulants really affect you.
Yes.
So I would bet you and I fall intothe same category as being slow
metabolisers of caffeine because I amalso highly impacted by caffeine and
i'll get the jitters and I definitelyexperience insomnia if I have caffeine
(10:30):
after a certain time in the day.
But fast metabolisers like myfather-in-law, he is completely
unaffected by caffeine.
So he can brew and afterdinner cup of coffee and still
be able to sleep just fine.
And so he is a fast metaboliser whoyou still have the increased alertness
without all the negative side effects.
(10:53):
And so because of these two commongene variants, researchers examined how
they affect the risk of other healthconcerns, and one of them was a heart
attack or a myocardial infarction.
And so for the ultra slow metabolisers,like myself, drinking four or more
(11:14):
cups of coffee per day was associatedwith a 30% higher risk of heart attack.
Conversely, the fast metabolisers candrink one to three cups of coffee a
day, and it'll act as a protectantagainst cardiovascular disease.
So, so wait, so that means that folkslike me are at a higher risk if I
(11:36):
drink caffeine to heart attacks thanthose who metabolize it quicker?
Correct.
And so that's whereNutrigenomics is so critical in
preventative healthcare because.
If, I mean, like I said before, thereare genes for everything including how
we process sodium and other nutrients.
(11:57):
But if you're a slow metaboliser,you should avoid consuming more than
200 milligrams of caffeine per day.
Okay.
I know that anecdotally, right?
How does one find that out?
I mean, I'm due for an annualphysical in a couple weeks.
I've never heard some ofthese terms before, ever.
And so my guess is she'snot testing for that.
(12:17):
No, no.
I would not guess that conventionalproviders would be offering or
pursuing Nutrigenomic testing.
That's something that you wouldhave to work with a functional
healthcare provider to pursue that.
How do you, how do you get those numbers?
Do you, is it a blood test?
(12:37):
Is it, how does that come out?
It is a blood test.
Mm-hmm.
And so it can break it down into,okay, you're a fast metaboliser, this
slow of that, et cetera, et cetera,
Everything.
Mm-hmm.
Well, the effect of caffeineand you said your father-in-law
just can fall right asleep then.
Where you and I are up and I'mitching my arms and whatnot.
Yes.
(13:00):
And so there are other effectsthough, of consuming that on your
long-term health, just besidesthe heart attack, I would think.
Absolutely.
Obviously it disrupts our ability to fallasleep and stay asleep, but at a molecular
level, it's because it is blocking theneurotransmitter adenosine, which is our
sleep and relaxation chemical messenger.
(13:22):
So if we're blocking that we won't beable to fall asleep and stay asleep.
And additionally, it also causesdependency issues because it is
associated with enhancing theneurotransmitter dopamine, which we
spoke about last session as well.
Our pleasure and rewardcenter is affected.
(13:43):
And also it increases cortisoland adrenaline levels.
And these are our stress hormones.
And unfortunately, our bodyis not intelligent enough
to differentiate stress.
And the best way to explain that iswhen our body experiences a physical
or emotional threat like accidentallyplacing your hand on a hot burner.
(14:05):
Or are you being chasedthrough the woods by a bear?
Our body only perceives that we areexperiencing a threat, and so it
activates the fight or flight response.
And so these two hormones specificallythat caffeine increases cause increased
blood pressure, increased heart rate,and so again, our body is just perceiving
(14:30):
the stimulant caffeine as a stressor.
And I'm sure you're familiar withindividuals that have gerd, that have
been advised to limit or avoid caffeine.
That's because it also exacerbatesdigestive discomfort because it
stimulates acid production, and then italso interferes with multiple metabolic
(14:51):
pathways, and that's our body's way ofdetoxifying and eliminating toxins and
disrupting key nutrients being absorbed.
So you can see there's you know, seven oreight other ways that it can negatively
impact our short and long-term health.
Okay.
So let me be a normalAmerican for a minute.
(15:13):
So can I counteract the effects ofcaffeine late at night by popping a
couple of melatonin before I go to bed?
I
wouldn't say counter effect thecaffeine because it's still comes down
to how is your body metabolising it?
So metabolising means our body istaking a substance and it's breaking
(15:35):
it down into a different moleculethat we can excrete and eliminate.
So I'm just adding somethingelse onto my daily regime
instead of changing my regime.
Right.
And melatonin is not anegative thing by any means.
We need melatonin for sleep onset.
(15:55):
But the great thing now with all ofthese different alternatives is that
you can replace caffeine with otherthings like adaptogens or nootropics.
And actually one of my favoritethings that I have started
swapping out is mushroom coffee.
(16:16):
Go.
So it's just powdered mushroomsand it acts as an energizer without
the stimulating side effects ornegative impacts that you get from
a true stimulant like caffeine.
Okay.
Break that down just a little bit.
What does the mushroom do?
What does it stimulate in order to giveyou that little boost that you feel.
(16:41):
So it just positively impacts yourneurotransmitters and hormones in a
way that isn't causing any dependency.
Hmm.
So it's increasing your alertness,increasing your focus, increasing your
energy needs by modulating these hormonesand neurotransmitters in a positive way.
Well where do you get it?
(17:02):
You can get it pretty much anywhere,but I like to, I actually order mine
from a little apothecary in Milwaukeecalled the Tippy Canoe Apothecary.
Which is a great, and I'm not doing a plughere for any specific brand, but that's
one of my favorite mushroom coffees.
And is it expensive?
(17:26):
It can, I mean, it, it can be a little bitmore expensive than a $5 bag of ground.
Folgers.
Well, that's where I was goingtoo, is that sometimes we're
looking for quick, right?
Fast, cheap.
I have a friend of mine who's a physician.
And she said you wouldn't believe howpeople are mad at her if they walk out
(17:52):
of her office without a prescription.
We're looking for quick fixes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think, you know, it goesback to the complexities of
living a healthy lifestyle.
But really it is having the full circleapproach of sustainable, healthy choices
(18:18):
with diet and exercise and lifestyle.
And then it also ties into accessand the socioeconomics of how we
have these resources available to us.
Well, what's a healthysupplement look like, Lis?
Oh gosh.
So the supplement industry, and I'm surelisteners can probably relate to this,
(18:43):
can feel very overwhelming and noisy.
Oh, it's incredible!
Mm-hmm.
I have had the pleasure ofworking at a practitioner
grade supplement manufacturer.
And that was where I really had deep, deeptraining on the quality of supplements.
(19:04):
So I think first and foremost,what is motivating a consumer
to take a supplement?
Is it low energy?
Is it their immune health?
Is it for performance?
Stress management?
But then it really comes down tothe supplement manufacturer and
there are a few different levels.
So where are the rawmaterials coming from?
(19:28):
Number one, where are theseingredients coming from?
How is the manufacturertesting these ingredients?
Are they using an in-house lab?
Are they using a third party lab?
Is the lab certified?
And then I think one of the biggestmisconceptions is that the FDA
doesn't have any control overthis industry or this division of
(19:51):
healthcare, but they really do.
So there are supplement manufacturersthat have the FDA come in and audit their
entire manufacturing facility annually.
And so those are the manufacturersthat you want to look for.
Another certification is a CGMP, soit's good manufacturing practices.
(20:12):
And then are they testing everybatch or are they doing skip
testing, which is every other lot?
And the biggest thing withsafety is adulteration.
So whether it's intentional orunintentional, we need to know
is there truth in the labeling?
So how does the supplement manufacturerguarantee or prove that what they say
(20:35):
is in the supplement is truly what is inthe supplement for purity and potency.
And so identification of theingredients, but then also testing for
contaminants like microbes, mycotoxins,heavy metals, pesticides and if
the supplement manufacturer cannotsubstantiate their claims or prove
(20:57):
their claims, that's a huge red flag.
And being able as a consumer to pick upa supplement bottle and read the label
and understand the dosing, recognizingif the ingredients are first and foremost
safe, but are they also effective?
(21:18):
And then being able to understandthe purity and potency side of it.
And so the third piece to allof this is are there any drug
nutrient interactions or dietaryinteractions or toxicology risks?
And so my recommendation is that ifyou cannot confidently check off most
(21:42):
of those boxes, you would need tobe working with an individual who is
professionally trained, like a clinicalnutritionist or an integrative pharmacist
to ensure that your dosing in yoursupplements is safe and effective.
That's a lot, but that's really goodbecause I don't know where to go.
You know, right outside my pharmacy,there's a wall of vitamins and supplements
(22:08):
from different manufacturers, and theassumption I think is, hey, if they're
in the store, they must all be good.
Right.
And then the store today is, youknow, Amazon or online, and you
don't know if you're orderingsomething if it's decent or not.
Sometimes.
Yeah, if you can find a provider or aclinician to work with that can guide you
(22:31):
not necessarily sell you something, butjust to guide you so that you know that
what you're getting is safe and effective.
That is really importantwith supplement use.
Different cultures view thisin different ways, right?
And we live here.
So the quick fix again, some thingsare developed for one thing and then
they're used for something else.
(22:52):
Like, isn't ozempic or wasn'tit developed for, was it
diabetes or right?
Diabetes?
Mm-hmm.
And Wegovy and now it's weight lossand all of these people are, and that
just feeds into the psychology that,yeah, there is a quick fix out there.
Yeah, I think cardiometabolic illness isreally tricky because if you look at the
(23:15):
foundation of what is associated withcardiometabolic illness, it's obesity.
And so if we peel back the layers ofobesity, it can be very misunderstood
because it's not as simple ascalories in equals calories out.
And again, going back to the socioeconomicfactors with fresh food access and living
(23:39):
a sedentary lifestyle, and the geneticsand the health of our microbiome and
our sleep hygiene and stress management.
That all plays a role in our hormoneregulation and then the added
layer of behavioral psychology,because we do all experience an
emotional response with eating.
(24:00):
And so I think the researchers anddevelopers of those prescriptions
hopefully had good intentionsin mind with, okay, well what is
causing cardiometabolic illness?
Is obesity, and if we can helpsupport obesity or treat obesity,
(24:20):
that'll in turn have positiveimpacts on cardiometabolic illness.
This is so new though.
We don't have the long-term effectsof all this dramatic weight loss over
a quick period of time, though yet.
Right.
I want to ask you as a get outtahere question about lifestyle.
Long ago I used to run every day.
(24:41):
I know I wasn't supposed to.
Not in the way I was doing it 'causeI'm a bigger guy or whatever, and then I
couldn't anymore and it took me a while.
Now I bike every day.
I can't imagine a day where I don't do it.
It's just a part of the day.
How do you convince somebody to make thehard choices of taking care of yourself
rather than looking for the quick fix?
(25:05):
That's a great question.
And you know, every nutritionisthas their own philosophy.
For me, it's education.
It's providing the scientificallyresearched information to individuals
or clients that I'm working with sothat they feel empowered and they
make their own decisions and theyreally have autonomy when it comes to
their health and their preferences.
(25:27):
And everyone is at a differentplace in their health journey.
And so it's really important to methat I meet everybody where they are
at and to encourage and motivate them,and then to build that collaborative
partnership so that I'm not convincingthem, because when I hear the word
convince it makes me think of somethingthat's forceful or maybe not sustainable.
(25:51):
So I would say the biggest thing for me iseducation, providing the right resources.
That's great and that's whatwe're hoping to do here obviously.
Lis I really appreciate youbeing with us a second time.
I'm looking forward to the third time.
For all of you who arelistening, I hope you're finding
this as educational as I am.
Thanks for your thoughts,your expertise Lis.
(26:13):
And for those of you listening, we hopeyou find health wellness wherever you are.
Thanks for listening.
Be safe and take care of your whole self.
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