September 25, 2024 • 25 mins
Since the inception in 1980, Mothers Against Drunk Drivers (MADD) has worked tirelessly to end impaired driving. In 2022 almost fourteen thousand people were killed by an impaired driver. Erin Payton and Karl Krull discuss MADD’s mission and work. Erin is a Director of Mission Operations for MADD, providing support and guidance to about twenty percent of the country. Karl is a Program Specialist for MADD in Madison, Wisconsin. Mothers Against Drunk Drivers’ national website is at Home - MADD. Walk Like MADD, Madison, Wisconsin, registration is at: 2024 Walk like MADD Madison
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:12):
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction, brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
No more victims.
At Mothers Against Drunk Drivers,the goal is ending impaired driving.
Forever, for good!
(00:33):
Our guests today are Erin Payton, whois Director of Mission Operations for
Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, providessupport and guidance to about, I think
I got this right, about 20 percent ofthe country, and Karl Krull, a Program
Specialist for MADD in Madison, Wisconsin.
Welcome to both of you.
How are you?
Erin (00:52):
We're great.
Karl (00:54):
Thanks for having us.
Mike (00:55):
I'm really appreciative, not only of you being here,
but of the work that you do.
Erin, who's not familiar with MADD, right?
But let's just do it anyway.
Since the inception of MADD in1980, we've seen a huge decline.
We're not there yet.
But a huge decline indrunk driving fatalities.
Take us a bit of, on ahistory lesson of MADD.
Erin (01:16):
Absolutely.
MADD was founded in 1980, like you said,by a woman named Candace Lightner, whose
13 year old daughter was killed in animpaired driving crash at the time we
would have set a drunk driving crash.
And so she did what a lot of people do.
She took her pain and turned it into apassion and slowly across the country.
(01:37):
Chapters of it's had manydifferent names right now.
We're Mothers AgainstDrunk Driving or MADD.
And and now we're a national organization.
Like you said, we've got people working inalmost every single state in the country.
Our mission is pretty simple.
We want to end impaired driving.
We want to support the victimsof these violent crimes.
(01:58):
And we want to help preventunderage alcohol and substance use.
And that is what Karlcan talk about later.
But as you said, in 1980,the numbers were not great.
They were hovering around20,000 fatalities every year.
We got it down to about 10,000 in 2019.
And then, unfortunately, thenumbers have creeped back up a bit.
(02:21):
There's not a specific one reasonwhy, but they are not trending
in the right direction right now.
And in 2022, nationally therewas about 13,500 people killed.
And when we say impaired driving, wedo mean drugged and drunk driving.
But drugged driving isn'talways as easy to define.
(02:44):
So the numbers that we're quoting, the13,528, is specifically drunk driving.
And if we were to include more numbers,obviously, I think the, or if we
really got a really good grasp, thenumbers would probably be higher.
So we do have our work cut out for us,but we are working hard every single
day to bring those numbers back down.
Mike (03:06):
You know, I'm, I'm older.
And I remember when you all firstgot started that one of the pushes
was to have a representative inalmost every courtroom where there
was a case where there was a victim.
And as somebody who lived throughthis, right, and the gentleman who
killed a friend of mine got no time.
(03:28):
Right.
That was tremendously effective.
Do you still do that?
Do you do courtroom monitoring?
Erin (03:35):
In certain states, we do.
In the state of Illinois, wehave six dedicated court monitors
who monitor about 21 counties.
Of course, the state ofIllinois has 102 counties.
We also, so we're not everywhere,but they Illinois Department of
Transportation has identified, you know,like the hot counties that have maybe a
higher prevalence of impaired driving.
(03:57):
So we're there, and wealso work with volunteers.
In Wisconsin, we are not thereyet, but we are hoping to be
adding some court monitors in 2025.
We're working on it.
Karl and I have a plan in place along withthe rest of our team to get that started.
Mike (04:15):
You know, Karl, in 2022, I think your stats say about, around 14,000, I'll
round up, right died in impaired driving,that's one every half an hour, a third of
all highway deaths one every two minutes,your stats say, somebody is injured by
an impaired driver, those costs aren'tborn just by the person who's doing the
(04:37):
accident, we all bear the cost, don't we?
Karl (04:40):
Yeah, everyone bears the costs.
There's the main focus on the fatalities,but there are a lot more people
who are injured in these crashes.
Like in Wisconsin, there were 184fatal crashes involving impaired
drivers, but there were 3,500 peoplewho were injured, some severely.
(05:04):
So it's increased medical costs,increased insurance costs, and then
the mental trauma, like you weresaying, it sticks with you forever.
Mike (05:11):
It does.
Karl (05:12):
I was in court last year for a sentencing supporting one of our
victim families, and it was a familywho lost their 20 year old son.
His 19 year old brother was severelyinjured and their best friend who was
about the same age was injured as well.
And it had been a full yearand a half after the crash.
And they were still bothrecovering physically and mentally.
(05:35):
They had to drop out of college andhad just started up that semester after
basically a year and a half of recovery.
So it's time lost.
It's people lost.
Mike (05:47):
You were talking about where maybe causes, we don't know what they are.
I don't think I'm going to be the onlyone to say this since I drive a lot.
People are driving like idiots now, just,just by themselves, let alone if they
have a substance in their body, right?
Erin (06:02):
Right.
We are actually workingwith the Milwaukee County...
Karl (06:10):
vision Zero.
Erin (06:12):
Well, Vision Zero, which is in Milwaukee, the city of Milwaukee,
and then also the Milwaukee CountyDepartment of Transportation.
They are doing a huge, huge, amazingstudy that they've asked us to partner
with them on because Milwaukee County'snumbers are some of the highest in the
nation, actually, of crashes in general.
So, in general crashes, like,even higher than impaired driving.
(06:34):
So what I like about that, whatI love about that is how they
are taking responsibility for it.
They're doing really, really goodresearch to figure out why are people
driving the way they're driving?
What can we do to changethat both behaviorally?
So to change people's thoughtson how they drive, but to also
make the roads themselves safer.
(06:55):
I think that is a really cool dualavenue and I'm getting the road safer.
And but you're right.
People are, you know, we'resaying this anecdotally, right?
So there's no...
Mike (07:05):
Yes, right.
Erin (07:07):
Statistics behind it, but I think just from being on the roads
and I think that goes with the wholereason why the numbers are going up.
And a lot of people attributeit to the shutdown and different
behaviors on the roads, butreally there's not one reason why.
Mike (07:21):
Well, alcohol consumption went way up during the shutdown.
And so, you know, I think most people,if I get on the freeway right now,
within five minutes, I'm passed bysomebody going over 90 miles an hour.
That used to happen occasionally.
Happens every day.
Now, speed and drugsdon't match very well.
(07:43):
Karl, at one point, I read somethingthat, in Milwaukee County, that
after midnight, After 11 p.
m.
on a Friday or Saturday night,the percentage of impaired drivers
on the freeway system is huge.
People are drinking andstill getting in their car.
Karl (08:01):
Yeah, if you look at
the Wisconsin Department ofTransportation charts out like when
people are pulled over and arrestedfor drunk or impaired driving.
And it's a curve where, oh,from midnight to like 4 a.
m.
is actually the highest time.
And then it droops down when peopleare actually starting to go to work.
(08:24):
Yeah, and then just slowly ticks back upafter lunch, but it's late in the night.
People are out there on the roads,and there are generally less
people on the roads, so peoplethink it's safer, but it's not.
If you feel different, you'regoing to drive different.
Mike (08:39):
Yeah.
I'm going to ask both of youthis, Erin, I'll start with you.
Why did you get involved with MADD?
I assume there's a story.
Erin (08:46):
There actually is not a story before I started, but since I've started
at MADD, I have been touched by in here.
The reason I got involved was I had beenin nonprofits for a really long time.
And I was looking to worksomewhere with a strong mission
and a national, a larger focus.
And so when I saw this job posting,there's something just connected with my
(09:09):
heart and my brain and my passion and...
The best decision I've made becausethe last two years have been pretty...
Obviously, our job is very heartbreakingbecause we talk to victims every day, but
we really grow to care so much about thesefamilies and the passion that they have
just fuels our passion to make a change.
(09:31):
So that is the reason why I got involved.
Karl?
Karl (09:35):
Yeah, I'm similar.
I haven't, I wasn't directlyimpacted beforehand, but.
It's a good mission.
My work before, I mean, Ifelt like a cog in a machine.
And here, like, I feel like I'mmaking a direct impact every
single day with everything I do.
Helping people and tryingto prevent future crashes.
Mike (09:56):
You know, you both mentioned impaired driving.
I was correct when I saidMothers Against Drunk Driving.
That's still your...
right?
Karl (10:03):
Yep, Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
Mike (10:04):
But we had a lady on a couple years ago on this podcast who does
the impaired driving classes inone of the counties in Wisconsin.
And she said five years agoit was almost all alcohol.
Today, it's about half marijuana.
Half her classes are marijuana.
So we're not talking about just alcohol.
(10:25):
We're talking about all the drugsacross the system, including cannabis.
Erin (10:29):
Correct.
Karl can probably talk better aboutthis with what he does with his youth
presentations, but I, in Illinois,do I host victim impact panels.
So that's probably similar to the personyou spoke with, where if you are a first
or second time offender in the stateof Illinois, a lot of your sentencing,
you do have to take this class.
(10:50):
And we don't ask when people attendour class, if it was alcohol or
drugs or polysubstance, whichis obviously a combination.
Mike (10:59):
Right.
Erin (11:00):
We have definitely changed our messaging over the last
several years to more focus, youknow, predominantly on alcohol.
Now we really do focus on both and talkabout both in all of our messaging.
Karl (11:14):
Yeah.
Like I do high school,middle school presentations.
So going into health classes, talkingto the kids about drugs and alcohol.
And yeah, it's been a big shiftthat it's not just alcohol, we focus
on cannabis, on prescription drugshow they make you feel different.
And if you feel different,you're going to drive different.
Mike (11:32):
You know, Karl, I also work with youth a lot.
I'm in about 140 high schools a year.
And it must be encouraging to you.
This is a different generationthan previous generations.
They do click it, right?
They put their seatbelt on.
They use Uber.
They have the apps for Lyftand Uber on their phone.
They seem to be making better decisions.
(11:53):
That must make both ofyou feel fairly good.
Karl (11:57):
Yeah, I mean, I go in not as many as 140, although I'd like to
get up there schools every year.
And I really think the exposurehelps because I go into health
classes and they get maybe a week ortwo of alcohol and drug education.
And yes, they get the, oh, this is whatit does to your body and to your brain.
But.
(12:17):
If you can make that real life connectionof here is what alcohol and drugs will
do to you and then here's how it'llaffect you if you get behind the wheel,
I think it really does click with them.
And with a week or two of class, theycan't focus on everything, so this little
bit of information really helps, I think.
Mike (12:36):
I think so, too.
Erin, talk about your group's initiatives.
You have quite a bit going onbesides just monitoring what happens.
Erin (12:44):
Yeah, we do.
So we talked about court monitoringand it just to get a little
bit more clarification on that.
You know, we've got the lawenforcement who are arresting
people for driving impaired.
But you know, they have their courttrial and what we need to do is see
that the sentencing is both consistentand fair to the crime and that people
(13:06):
aren't just kind of being let off witha, you know, what we would say a slap
on the wrist or something like that.
So that's what court monitors do.
Karl is part of our underage drinkingand substance abuse group, and they go
into schools and they talk to parentsand they do a lot of community events.
Our victim services staffis small, but mighty.
And so they, they work with victims,both if the survivors of the crashes
(13:31):
or the families left behind, andthey help them, I say, from crash to
forever, because like we've talkedabout, the pain never goes away.
So, they help them through supportgroups, through writing their victim
impact statements, all of that stuff.
We do law enforcement recognition.
We are doing one inWisconsin on October 8th.
We're really excited about thatin conjunction with the Wisconsin
(13:53):
Alcohol Policy Project conference.
And then we do them in different states.
We do Saturation Saturday, which isthe fourth Saturday in August, where
we work with law enforcement to showup on the streets and let people
know we're going to be out there.
And the reason behind that is thenext weekend is Labor Day weekend, and
that's when a lot of fatalities happen.
(14:14):
This exact region started an initiativewhich is recreation vehicle safety,
and that is for ATVs, boating, andsnowmobiles, and it's a six state kind
of coalition, so it's Illinois, Iowa,Wisconsin, Minnesota, South Dakota, North
Dakota, so kind of the areas you think ofthat have a lot of recreation vehicles.
(14:34):
Because people don't think about thatalways when they're going out on, they
don't think that they're also vehicles.
And there's a lot of drinking on ATVs,there's a lot of drinking on boats,
there's a lot of drinking on snowmobiles,and those do lead to fatalities,
especially in the state of Wisconsin.
So we are very strong about that.
So, that's just a tiny littletip of the iceberg of what we do.
(14:57):
But we are working so hardwith such a small team.
We rely on our volunteers andour community partners, and
they are absolutely wonderful.
Mike (15:05):
Karl, you also talk about interlocks on vehicles.
Karl (15:10):
Yeah, basically you plug them into your car, and if you've been
convicted of a certain offense, itreally varies from state to state.
It's blow and go, so you have to blowinto it, and it checks to see if there's
alcohol in your system, in your breath.
And if there is, it won't start, andif there is none, then you get to go.
(15:32):
So we've been trying in Wisconsinto get those on first offense.
So first time OWI convictions where youhave to install one of those to make
sure you're driving, you're being safe.
Erin (15:45):
Yeah, right now in Wisconsin, it's either second offense or first offense
if the blood alcohol content is .15.
And we're trying to getit for all offenders.
So regardless of how many times,or what your blood alcohol content
is, you're going to get it put in.
The other thing we're doing iswe have been probably the biggest
(16:05):
advocate for the HALT Act.
The HALT Act is, has been passed.
Nationally, and there's a couplemore hoops we have to jump through
to get it actually in action withthrough NHTSA, the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration, andthat is going to be passive technology
that will go in every single carmanufactured after a certain time.
(16:27):
And that will then, instead of having toblow into a device, basically, it will
be not allow anybody to drive drunk.
We're very excited about it.
It's something that is, becauseit's passive, and it's multiple
points, it won't be triggeredincorrectly, if that makes sense.
You have to kind of pass throughall of the trigger points for
(16:49):
the car to be disabled safely.
But we're very excited about that.
I mean, that's going to be such, suchan amazing win, and it's going to make
everyone so much safer on the roads.
Mike (17:00):
You know, you talked about having somebody first time, first time
offender, and every now and then we seearticles, especially here in Wisconsin
fifth time, sixth time, ninth timedriving under the influence person,
and finally they hurt somebody, right,which is what gets the attention.
What changes would you two liketo see in the legal system?
Erin (17:24):
Well, it's already there.
After your fourth offense in the stateof Wisconsin, you get your license taken
away for at least 10 years, sometimesforever and definitely for 10 years.
So that's already there, but it'snot stopping people from driving.
The only thing that's going to stoppeople from driving is to not allow
them to drive their car drunk.
And so we're already working on that.
(17:46):
And that's really what our focus isbecause the, Wisconsin already has
it in place, where, you know, buttaking away a piece of plastic is not
taking away their ability to drive.
We do know there are some people, wework with a family that are, they're
really working on that, this specificthing, and they have a family member
(18:06):
who doesn't drive after having theirlicense taken away, but what they say
is, well, he's, he's one of the few.
Because people are obviously, to yourpoint, Mike, if they have a sixth
offense, they shouldn't be driving anyway.
So, the only way to stop them from doingthat is to put technology in place that,
because there's a case in Illinois wherea man had was not allowed to drive and
(18:31):
he had an ignition interlock on his car.
Well, he took his daughter's car.
He got drunk and he hit someonehead on on I-55 and killed them.
So everything was donecorrectly through the law.
They did everything right, but ifhe can still take another car that
works, he can still kill someone.
So the law is one thing.
(18:54):
But technology is another.
Mike (18:58):
Karl you have a lot of events that you sponsor all over the country,
but locally you have something comingup on September 28th, which I think is
just right around the corner, right?
At Vilas Park in Madison
Karl (19:09):
Yeah, T minus nine days, I think.
Yeah.
So next Saturday starting at 9 AMSeptember 28th, we're hosting our
Walk Like MADD walk fundraiser.
And we're just bringing togethersurvivors, their families, interested
community members, people who have beenaffected, anyone who cares really in
Vilas Park, in Madison, right by the zoo.
(19:30):
And we're going to be walkingand honoring those who have been
lost and those who've suffered.
Mike (19:34):
That's great.
I'll put a link to thatat the end of the podcast.
But for those who are listeninghow do they go about registering
for that or showing up for it?
Karl (19:43):
Yeah.
If you go to walklikemadd.org/madisonit'll take you right to our page.
We've got how to sign up there.
You can join teams to honorsomeone who's been affected
and fundraise from there, yeah.
Mike (19:58):
And Erin, you have a lot of those events around the country.
Erin (20:01):
Yeah, this region, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, has five walks.
And we're really excited because thisis the first year in at least a very
long time that Wisconsin has had a walk.
So we're just so happy to bethere and talking out loud.
I mean, it's such a beautiful location.
And if there's going to be a lot ofpeople who are just going to pass by
and see it, you know, anytime we canamplify our message and honor loved
(20:25):
ones and of course, raise the neededmoney to keep us going is really great.
If you can't attend the walk, you canstill go to the website and donate.
So we would love eitherone of those things.
Mike (20:37):
Well, because like you said, you rely a great deal on a
large, large volunteer network.
Erin (20:44):
Yeah, we really do.
And thanks to Karl's hardwork, we are building that
network back up in Wisconsin.
We could always use more and thatcan be anything from helping us well,
we do take volunteer court monitors,you could help speak at schools, you
can help volunteer at our events.
There's all sorts of thingspeople can do to, to help us out.
Mike (21:06):
And Karl, if somebody wanted to do that in the state of Wisconsin,
do they just get a hold of you?
Karl (21:12):
Yeah, they can get a hold of me.
You can go to madd.org/wisconsin, Ithink is the official webpage for us, and
it'll have my contact information there.
Or it'll have the regional, youcan do there's the regional email
that basically goes to my inbox.
(21:32):
Which I'm blanking on right now.
Mike (21:34):
I'll put a link to it on the podcast.
I'll let you both leave with this.
You've made so much progress.
We're in so much of a better placethan we were in 1980 when MADD first
started, but we're not there yet.
What do you hope we seein the next 10, 15 years?
Karl (21:50):
I
mean, hopefully in 10 or 15 years withthis technology, we won't have a job.
That's the goal.
The goal is no more victims.
If I work myself out of a job, good.
If no one is hurt or killed in anyimpaired driving crashes, then good.
(22:11):
Just want to make sureeveryone gets home safely.
Erin (22:14):
Yeah.
Karl said it.
We, you know, make that joke or whateverit is that I, I'll go work for the
American Cancer Society if we can ifwe can stop this because it is, we call
it a 100 percent preventable crime.
It never has to happen.
I mean, after this podcast ends.
It never has to happenat any given second.
(22:35):
No one ever has to drive impaired again,no one ever has to get injured again, no
one ever has to lose their life again.
So we just need everyone tocare about everyone on the road.
And I know that's a really bigask because, you know, we're, as
human beings, sometimes a littlemyopic with what we care about.
But if we can just get everybodyto just think before they drink.
(22:58):
We do not care if you'reover the age of 21.
If you drink alcohol, go for it.
There's so many reasons tocelebrate and if that includes
alcohol in your life, that's great.
We just need you to do it responsibly.
That's just the number one thing.
Just be responsible.
Mike (23:12):
You know, that's funny, you should say that.
A long time ago, one of the alcoholcompanies had a slogan, and the
slogan was, Think when you drink.
And when I would talk to people, I'd belike, That's a little bit of a misnomer.
How about thinking before youdrink, as you just said, and maybe
you won't drink nearly as much.
Erin (23:32):
Well, and that's I know we're almost running out of time, but we have
a relationship with Anheuser Busch andUber, and it's The program is called
Decide to Ride and the idea is if youdon't drive to where you're going, there's
no way you can drive impaired home.
So plan while you're still sober,you're still thinking, make that
plan beforehand so that when youare impaired and you're not thinking
(23:56):
smartly, there's no way you can makethis terrible choice and hurt someone.
Mike (24:01):
You know, Erin, I know you're in Illinois, but last night my son
and I were watching the, uh, theBrewers celebrate a division title.
I believe second place are the Cubs.
I'm not sure, but um, and...
Erin (24:15):
So we'll take it.
Mike (24:17):
And my son said, as you saw the celebration, as you're reflecting,
he said, I hope the team and theseplayers are smart enough to have
made arrangements to get home, right?
As the champagne was up, well,there was more of it up in the
air, that probably in their belly.
But still you don't want people tomake a preventable, make a crime
(24:39):
out of something that's preventable.
And along those lines, for those ofyou listening, in the time that we've
been talking, using the statistics thatyou've given us, about 15 people have
been injured by an impaired driver.
That's just in the timewe've been talking here.
I want to thank both of you for your workand for your time for being with us today.
And for those of you who are listening,you're welcome to listen anytime.
(25:03):
We really enjoy having you here.
And until next time please,please stay safe, be smart.
And did I say stay safe?
Welcome, everybody.
This is Avoiding the AddictionAffliction, brought to you by Westwords
Consulting and the Kenosha CountySubstance Use Disorder Coalition.
I'm Mike McGowan.
No more victims.
At Mothers Against Drunk Drivers,the goal is ending impaired driving.
Forever, for good!
(00:33):
Our guests today are Erin Payton, whois Director of Mission Operations for
Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, providessupport and guidance to about, I think
I got this right, about 20 percent ofthe country, and Karl Krull, a Program
Specialist for MADD in Madison, Wisconsin.
Welcome to both of you.
How are you?
Erin (00:52):
We're great.
Karl (00:54):
Thanks for having us.
Mike (00:55):
I'm really appreciative, not only of you being here,
but of the work that you do.
Erin, who's not familiar with MADD, right?
But let's just do it anyway.
Since the inception of MADD in1980, we've seen a huge decline.
We're not there yet.
But a huge decline indrunk driving fatalities.
Take us a bit of, on ahistory lesson of MADD.
Erin (01:16):
Absolutely.
MADD was founded in 1980, like you said,by a woman named Candace Lightner, whose
13 year old daughter was killed in animpaired driving crash at the time we
would have set a drunk driving crash.
And so she did what a lot of people do.
She took her pain and turned it into apassion and slowly across the country.
(01:37):
Chapters of it's had manydifferent names right now.
We're Mothers AgainstDrunk Driving or MADD.
And and now we're a national organization.
Like you said, we've got people working inalmost every single state in the country.
Our mission is pretty simple.
We want to end impaired driving.
We want to support the victimsof these violent crimes.
(01:58):
And we want to help preventunderage alcohol and substance use.
And that is what Karlcan talk about later.
But as you said, in 1980,the numbers were not great.
They were hovering around20,000 fatalities every year.
We got it down to about 10,000 in 2019.
And then, unfortunately, thenumbers have creeped back up a bit.
(02:21):
There's not a specific one reasonwhy, but they are not trending
in the right direction right now.
And in 2022, nationally therewas about 13,500 people killed.
And when we say impaired driving, wedo mean drugged and drunk driving.
But drugged driving isn'talways as easy to define.
(02:44):
So the numbers that we're quoting, the13,528, is specifically drunk driving.
And if we were to include more numbers,obviously, I think the, or if we
really got a really good grasp, thenumbers would probably be higher.
So we do have our work cut out for us,but we are working hard every single
day to bring those numbers back down.
Mike (03:06):
You know, I'm, I'm older.
And I remember when you all firstgot started that one of the pushes
was to have a representative inalmost every courtroom where there
was a case where there was a victim.
And as somebody who lived throughthis, right, and the gentleman who
killed a friend of mine got no time.
(03:28):
Right.
That was tremendously effective.
Do you still do that?
Do you do courtroom monitoring?
Erin (03:35):
In certain states, we do.
In the state of Illinois, wehave six dedicated court monitors
who monitor about 21 counties.
Of course, the state ofIllinois has 102 counties.
We also, so we're not everywhere,but they Illinois Department of
Transportation has identified, you know,like the hot counties that have maybe a
higher prevalence of impaired driving.
(03:57):
So we're there, and wealso work with volunteers.
In Wisconsin, we are not thereyet, but we are hoping to be
adding some court monitors in 2025.
We're working on it.
Karl and I have a plan in place along withthe rest of our team to get that started.
Mike (04:15):
You know, Karl, in 2022, I think your stats say about, around 14,000, I'll
round up, right died in impaired driving,that's one every half an hour, a third of
all highway deaths one every two minutes,your stats say, somebody is injured by
an impaired driver, those costs aren'tborn just by the person who's doing the
(04:37):
accident, we all bear the cost, don't we?
Karl (04:40):
Yeah, everyone bears the costs.
There's the main focus on the fatalities,but there are a lot more people
who are injured in these crashes.
Like in Wisconsin, there were 184fatal crashes involving impaired
drivers, but there were 3,500 peoplewho were injured, some severely.
(05:04):
So it's increased medical costs,increased insurance costs, and then
the mental trauma, like you weresaying, it sticks with you forever.
Mike (05:11):
It does.
Karl (05:12):
I was in court last year for a sentencing supporting one of our
victim families, and it was a familywho lost their 20 year old son.
His 19 year old brother was severelyinjured and their best friend who was
about the same age was injured as well.
And it had been a full yearand a half after the crash.
And they were still bothrecovering physically and mentally.
(05:35):
They had to drop out of college andhad just started up that semester after
basically a year and a half of recovery.
So it's time lost.
It's people lost.
Mike (05:47):
You were talking about where maybe causes, we don't know what they are.
I don't think I'm going to be the onlyone to say this since I drive a lot.
People are driving like idiots now, just,just by themselves, let alone if they
have a substance in their body, right?
Erin (06:02):
Right.
We are actually workingwith the Milwaukee County...
Karl (06:10):
vision Zero.
Erin (06:12):
Well, Vision Zero, which is in Milwaukee, the city of Milwaukee,
and then also the Milwaukee CountyDepartment of Transportation.
They are doing a huge, huge, amazingstudy that they've asked us to partner
with them on because Milwaukee County'snumbers are some of the highest in the
nation, actually, of crashes in general.
So, in general crashes, like,even higher than impaired driving.
(06:34):
So what I like about that, whatI love about that is how they
are taking responsibility for it.
They're doing really, really goodresearch to figure out why are people
driving the way they're driving?
What can we do to changethat both behaviorally?
So to change people's thoughtson how they drive, but to also
make the roads themselves safer.
(06:55):
I think that is a really cool dualavenue and I'm getting the road safer.
And but you're right.
People are, you know, we'resaying this anecdotally, right?
So there's no...
Mike (07:05):
Yes, right.
Erin (07:07):
Statistics behind it, but I think just from being on the roads
and I think that goes with the wholereason why the numbers are going up.
And a lot of people attributeit to the shutdown and different
behaviors on the roads, butreally there's not one reason why.
Mike (07:21):
Well, alcohol consumption went way up during the shutdown.
And so, you know, I think most people,if I get on the freeway right now,
within five minutes, I'm passed bysomebody going over 90 miles an hour.
That used to happen occasionally.
Happens every day.
Now, speed and drugsdon't match very well.
(07:43):
Karl, at one point, I read somethingthat, in Milwaukee County, that
after midnight, After 11 p.
m.
on a Friday or Saturday night,the percentage of impaired drivers
on the freeway system is huge.
People are drinking andstill getting in their car.
Karl (08:01):
Yeah, if you look at
the Wisconsin Department ofTransportation charts out like when
people are pulled over and arrestedfor drunk or impaired driving.
And it's a curve where, oh,from midnight to like 4 a.
m.
is actually the highest time.
And then it droops down when peopleare actually starting to go to work.
(08:24):
Yeah, and then just slowly ticks back upafter lunch, but it's late in the night.
People are out there on the roads,and there are generally less
people on the roads, so peoplethink it's safer, but it's not.
If you feel different, you'regoing to drive different.
Mike (08:39):
Yeah.
I'm going to ask both of youthis, Erin, I'll start with you.
Why did you get involved with MADD?
I assume there's a story.
Erin (08:46):
There actually is not a story before I started, but since I've started
at MADD, I have been touched by in here.
The reason I got involved was I had beenin nonprofits for a really long time.
And I was looking to worksomewhere with a strong mission
and a national, a larger focus.
And so when I saw this job posting,there's something just connected with my
(09:09):
heart and my brain and my passion and...
The best decision I've made becausethe last two years have been pretty...
Obviously, our job is very heartbreakingbecause we talk to victims every day, but
we really grow to care so much about thesefamilies and the passion that they have
just fuels our passion to make a change.
(09:31):
So that is the reason why I got involved.
Karl?
Karl (09:35):
Yeah, I'm similar.
I haven't, I wasn't directlyimpacted beforehand, but.
It's a good mission.
My work before, I mean, Ifelt like a cog in a machine.
And here, like, I feel like I'mmaking a direct impact every
single day with everything I do.
Helping people and tryingto prevent future crashes.
Mike (09:56):
You know, you both mentioned impaired driving.
I was correct when I saidMothers Against Drunk Driving.
That's still your...
right?
Karl (10:03):
Yep, Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
Mike (10:04):
But we had a lady on a couple years ago on this podcast who does
the impaired driving classes inone of the counties in Wisconsin.
And she said five years agoit was almost all alcohol.
Today, it's about half marijuana.
Half her classes are marijuana.
So we're not talking about just alcohol.
(10:25):
We're talking about all the drugsacross the system, including cannabis.
Erin (10:29):
Correct.
Karl can probably talk better aboutthis with what he does with his youth
presentations, but I, in Illinois,do I host victim impact panels.
So that's probably similar to the personyou spoke with, where if you are a first
or second time offender in the stateof Illinois, a lot of your sentencing,
you do have to take this class.
(10:50):
And we don't ask when people attendour class, if it was alcohol or
drugs or polysubstance, whichis obviously a combination.
Mike (10:59):
Right.
Erin (11:00):
We have definitely changed our messaging over the last
several years to more focus, youknow, predominantly on alcohol.
Now we really do focus on both and talkabout both in all of our messaging.
Karl (11:14):
Yeah.
Like I do high school,middle school presentations.
So going into health classes, talkingto the kids about drugs and alcohol.
And yeah, it's been a big shiftthat it's not just alcohol, we focus
on cannabis, on prescription drugshow they make you feel different.
And if you feel different,you're going to drive different.
Mike (11:32):
You know, Karl, I also work with youth a lot.
I'm in about 140 high schools a year.
And it must be encouraging to you.
This is a different generationthan previous generations.
They do click it, right?
They put their seatbelt on.
They use Uber.
They have the apps for Lyftand Uber on their phone.
They seem to be making better decisions.
(11:53):
That must make both ofyou feel fairly good.
Karl (11:57):
Yeah, I mean, I go in not as many as 140, although I'd like to
get up there schools every year.
And I really think the exposurehelps because I go into health
classes and they get maybe a week ortwo of alcohol and drug education.
And yes, they get the, oh, this is whatit does to your body and to your brain.
But.
(12:17):
If you can make that real life connectionof here is what alcohol and drugs will
do to you and then here's how it'llaffect you if you get behind the wheel,
I think it really does click with them.
And with a week or two of class, theycan't focus on everything, so this little
bit of information really helps, I think.
Mike (12:36):
I think so, too.
Erin, talk about your group's initiatives.
You have quite a bit going onbesides just monitoring what happens.
Erin (12:44):
Yeah, we do.
So we talked about court monitoringand it just to get a little
bit more clarification on that.
You know, we've got the lawenforcement who are arresting
people for driving impaired.
But you know, they have their courttrial and what we need to do is see
that the sentencing is both consistentand fair to the crime and that people
(13:06):
aren't just kind of being let off witha, you know, what we would say a slap
on the wrist or something like that.
So that's what court monitors do.
Karl is part of our underage drinkingand substance abuse group, and they go
into schools and they talk to parentsand they do a lot of community events.
Our victim services staffis small, but mighty.
And so they, they work with victims,both if the survivors of the crashes
(13:31):
or the families left behind, andthey help them, I say, from crash to
forever, because like we've talkedabout, the pain never goes away.
So, they help them through supportgroups, through writing their victim
impact statements, all of that stuff.
We do law enforcement recognition.
We are doing one inWisconsin on October 8th.
We're really excited about thatin conjunction with the Wisconsin
(13:53):
Alcohol Policy Project conference.
And then we do them in different states.
We do Saturation Saturday, which isthe fourth Saturday in August, where
we work with law enforcement to showup on the streets and let people
know we're going to be out there.
And the reason behind that is thenext weekend is Labor Day weekend, and
that's when a lot of fatalities happen.
(14:14):
This exact region started an initiativewhich is recreation vehicle safety,
and that is for ATVs, boating, andsnowmobiles, and it's a six state kind
of coalition, so it's Illinois, Iowa,Wisconsin, Minnesota, South Dakota, North
Dakota, so kind of the areas you think ofthat have a lot of recreation vehicles.
(14:34):
Because people don't think about thatalways when they're going out on, they
don't think that they're also vehicles.
And there's a lot of drinking on ATVs,there's a lot of drinking on boats,
there's a lot of drinking on snowmobiles,and those do lead to fatalities,
especially in the state of Wisconsin.
So we are very strong about that.
So, that's just a tiny littletip of the iceberg of what we do.
(14:57):
But we are working so hardwith such a small team.
We rely on our volunteers andour community partners, and
they are absolutely wonderful.
Mike (15:05):
Karl, you also talk about interlocks on vehicles.
Karl (15:10):
Yeah, basically you plug them into your car, and if you've been
convicted of a certain offense, itreally varies from state to state.
It's blow and go, so you have to blowinto it, and it checks to see if there's
alcohol in your system, in your breath.
And if there is, it won't start, andif there is none, then you get to go.
(15:32):
So we've been trying in Wisconsinto get those on first offense.
So first time OWI convictions where youhave to install one of those to make
sure you're driving, you're being safe.
Erin (15:45):
Yeah, right now in Wisconsin, it's either second offense or first offense
if the blood alcohol content is .15.
And we're trying to getit for all offenders.
So regardless of how many times,or what your blood alcohol content
is, you're going to get it put in.
The other thing we're doing iswe have been probably the biggest
(16:05):
advocate for the HALT Act.
The HALT Act is, has been passed.
Nationally, and there's a couplemore hoops we have to jump through
to get it actually in action withthrough NHTSA, the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration, andthat is going to be passive technology
that will go in every single carmanufactured after a certain time.
(16:27):
And that will then, instead of having toblow into a device, basically, it will
be not allow anybody to drive drunk.
We're very excited about it.
It's something that is, becauseit's passive, and it's multiple
points, it won't be triggeredincorrectly, if that makes sense.
You have to kind of pass throughall of the trigger points for
(16:49):
the car to be disabled safely.
But we're very excited about that.
I mean, that's going to be such, suchan amazing win, and it's going to make
everyone so much safer on the roads.
Mike (17:00):
You know, you talked about having somebody first time, first time
offender, and every now and then we seearticles, especially here in Wisconsin
fifth time, sixth time, ninth timedriving under the influence person,
and finally they hurt somebody, right,which is what gets the attention.
What changes would you two liketo see in the legal system?
Erin (17:24):
Well, it's already there.
After your fourth offense in the stateof Wisconsin, you get your license taken
away for at least 10 years, sometimesforever and definitely for 10 years.
So that's already there, but it'snot stopping people from driving.
The only thing that's going to stoppeople from driving is to not allow
them to drive their car drunk.
And so we're already working on that.
(17:46):
And that's really what our focus isbecause the, Wisconsin already has
it in place, where, you know, buttaking away a piece of plastic is not
taking away their ability to drive.
We do know there are some people, wework with a family that are, they're
really working on that, this specificthing, and they have a family member
(18:06):
who doesn't drive after having theirlicense taken away, but what they say
is, well, he's, he's one of the few.
Because people are obviously, to yourpoint, Mike, if they have a sixth
offense, they shouldn't be driving anyway.
So, the only way to stop them from doingthat is to put technology in place that,
because there's a case in Illinois wherea man had was not allowed to drive and
(18:31):
he had an ignition interlock on his car.
Well, he took his daughter's car.
He got drunk and he hit someonehead on on I-55 and killed them.
So everything was donecorrectly through the law.
They did everything right, but ifhe can still take another car that
works, he can still kill someone.
So the law is one thing.
(18:54):
But technology is another.
Mike (18:58):
Karl you have a lot of events that you sponsor all over the country,
but locally you have something comingup on September 28th, which I think is
just right around the corner, right?
At Vilas Park in Madison
Karl (19:09):
Yeah, T minus nine days, I think.
Yeah.
So next Saturday starting at 9 AMSeptember 28th, we're hosting our
Walk Like MADD walk fundraiser.
And we're just bringing togethersurvivors, their families, interested
community members, people who have beenaffected, anyone who cares really in
Vilas Park, in Madison, right by the zoo.
(19:30):
And we're going to be walkingand honoring those who have been
lost and those who've suffered.
Mike (19:34):
That's great.
I'll put a link to thatat the end of the podcast.
But for those who are listeninghow do they go about registering
for that or showing up for it?
Karl (19:43):
Yeah.
If you go to walklikemadd.org/madisonit'll take you right to our page.
We've got how to sign up there.
You can join teams to honorsomeone who's been affected
and fundraise from there, yeah.
Mike (19:58):
And Erin, you have a lot of those events around the country.
Erin (20:01):
Yeah, this region, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, has five walks.
And we're really excited because thisis the first year in at least a very
long time that Wisconsin has had a walk.
So we're just so happy to bethere and talking out loud.
I mean, it's such a beautiful location.
And if there's going to be a lot ofpeople who are just going to pass by
and see it, you know, anytime we canamplify our message and honor loved
(20:25):
ones and of course, raise the neededmoney to keep us going is really great.
If you can't attend the walk, you canstill go to the website and donate.
So we would love eitherone of those things.
Mike (20:37):
Well, because like you said, you rely a great deal on a
large, large volunteer network.
Erin (20:44):
Yeah, we really do.
And thanks to Karl's hardwork, we are building that
network back up in Wisconsin.
We could always use more and thatcan be anything from helping us well,
we do take volunteer court monitors,you could help speak at schools, you
can help volunteer at our events.
There's all sorts of thingspeople can do to, to help us out.
Mike (21:06):
And Karl, if somebody wanted to do that in the state of Wisconsin,
do they just get a hold of you?
Karl (21:12):
Yeah, they can get a hold of me.
You can go to madd.org/wisconsin, Ithink is the official webpage for us, and
it'll have my contact information there.
Or it'll have the regional, youcan do there's the regional email
that basically goes to my inbox.
(21:32):
Which I'm blanking on right now.
Mike (21:34):
I'll put a link to it on the podcast.
I'll let you both leave with this.
You've made so much progress.
We're in so much of a better placethan we were in 1980 when MADD first
started, but we're not there yet.
What do you hope we seein the next 10, 15 years?
Karl (21:50):
I
mean, hopefully in 10 or 15 years withthis technology, we won't have a job.
That's the goal.
The goal is no more victims.
If I work myself out of a job, good.
If no one is hurt or killed in anyimpaired driving crashes, then good.
(22:11):
Just want to make sureeveryone gets home safely.
Erin (22:14):
Yeah.
Karl said it.
We, you know, make that joke or whateverit is that I, I'll go work for the
American Cancer Society if we can ifwe can stop this because it is, we call
it a 100 percent preventable crime.
It never has to happen.
I mean, after this podcast ends.
It never has to happenat any given second.
(22:35):
No one ever has to drive impaired again,no one ever has to get injured again, no
one ever has to lose their life again.
So we just need everyone tocare about everyone on the road.
And I know that's a really bigask because, you know, we're, as
human beings, sometimes a littlemyopic with what we care about.
But if we can just get everybodyto just think before they drink.
(22:58):
We do not care if you'reover the age of 21.
If you drink alcohol, go for it.
There's so many reasons tocelebrate and if that includes
alcohol in your life, that's great.
We just need you to do it responsibly.
That's just the number one thing.
Just be responsible.
Mike (23:12):
You know, that's funny, you should say that.
A long time ago, one of the alcoholcompanies had a slogan, and the
slogan was, Think when you drink.
And when I would talk to people, I'd belike, That's a little bit of a misnomer.
How about thinking before youdrink, as you just said, and maybe
you won't drink nearly as much.
Erin (23:32):
Well, and that's I know we're almost running out of time, but we have
a relationship with Anheuser Busch andUber, and it's The program is called
Decide to Ride and the idea is if youdon't drive to where you're going, there's
no way you can drive impaired home.
So plan while you're still sober,you're still thinking, make that
plan beforehand so that when youare impaired and you're not thinking
(23:56):
smartly, there's no way you can makethis terrible choice and hurt someone.
Mike (24:01):
You know, Erin, I know you're in Illinois, but last night my son
and I were watching the, uh, theBrewers celebrate a division title.
I believe second place are the Cubs.
I'm not sure, but um, and...
Erin (24:15):
So we'll take it.
Mike (24:17):
And my son said, as you saw the celebration, as you're reflecting,
he said, I hope the team and theseplayers are smart enough to have
made arrangements to get home, right?
As the champagne was up, well,there was more of it up in the
air, that probably in their belly.
But still you don't want people tomake a preventable, make a crime
(24:39):
out of something that's preventable.
And along those lines, for those ofyou listening, in the time that we've
been talking, using the statistics thatyou've given us, about 15 people have
been injured by an impaired driver.
That's just in the timewe've been talking here.
I want to thank both of you for your workand for your time for being with us today.
And for those of you who are listening,you're welcome to listen anytime.
(25:03):
We really enjoy having you here.
And until next time please,please stay safe, be smart.
And did I say stay safe?
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