May 21, 2025 • 29 mins
“Keep it to yourself” is not a great tag line when it comes to your mental health. It’s even less healthy when you’re a police officer and deal with trauma daily. Adam Meyers discusses his work and the crisis that led him to addressing his and others’ mental health. Adam has been a Police Officer in Wisconsin for 23 years. He is also a Certified Peer Specialist in Wisconsin and founder of “Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma.” Adam and “Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma” can be reached at https://stopthethreatstopthestigma.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction,brought to you by Westwords Consulting.
I'm Mike McGowan.
Keep it to yourself is not a greattagline when it comes to your mental
health, and since May is Mental HealthAwareness Month, it's even less healthy
depending on what you do for a living.
Well, I'm honored to have as our guesttoday, Adam Meyers, the founder of
(00:38):
Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma.
Adam has been a police officerin Wisconsin for 23 years.
He's currently a captain.
He's also a certified peerspecialist in Wisconsin.
Welcome Adam.
Thanks, Mike.
Thanks for having me and giving me thisopportunity to talk about mental health.
Oh, I'm so glad you're ableto, especially this month.
Okay.
So I've read a lot.
That's what I do when I do this andyou start one of the articles or
(01:01):
blogs that I read with a criticalincident that happened to you in 2016.
What was that?
Yeah.
On Friday, April 8th, 2016, I wasinvolved in a critical incident.
I used deadly force on someonewho armed themselves with a
hatchet inside our Walmart store.
Yeah.
Okay.
If you're armed with a hatchet and Iassume that you went through all of
(01:24):
the protocol that you're supposed togo, put it down, put it down, right?
I did.
Yeah.
I gave her multiple verbal commandsto stop, to drop the hatchet.
She kept advancing towards me, and thenI had no other option but to shoot.
Yeah.
You, you know, you've been, youwere in the military prior to your
becoming a police officer, right?
I was military police, yep.
Well, okay, and then you're also a,I assume you get training for that.
(01:47):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Was that the first time youhad fired your weapon on duty?
It was, all my years of lawenforcement, I always prided myself
in never using force against somebody.
I was always able to talk people down.
In the 23 years of being a cop,I've never pepper sprayed anybody.
I've never used my baton on anybody.
I have tased people before.
But yeah, this was the first time I everused my duty weapon in the line of duty.
(02:10):
Man.
So did it prepare you though,did all of your training, it
prepared you to do your job, right?
Correct.
Right.
And at the time I was alsoa firearms instructor.
I was an instructor inother disciplines as well.
But you know, as much as policeofficers train, especially in Wisconsin,
I mean, we're trained very well.
(02:33):
I don't think you really cantrain somebody to respond
after a critical incident.
I mean, you can give them ideas,you can give them resources, but
everybody's gonna react differently.
I mean, somebody going through thesame situation, same critical incident
as me could be perfectly fine.
Yeah.
You know, I was an after mine, soit's So training is important though.
(02:53):
What'd you experience?
A lot of depression, anxiety.
I started abusing alcohol.
I used casual sex as a coping strategy.
And I tried marijuana for the first timein my life, but I was, I was depressed.
I isolated myself, self harm.
There was one time that I struckmyself with a 12 inch correction
(03:17):
wrench, which I have a example of itright here, hit my knee a few times.
And the reason for this is becauseI felt like I was using all my call
in sick days, all my, I can't behere, you know, poor Adam type thing.
So I felt like I had to lie.
I felt like I had to come up withother excuses to get outta work.
And when I hit myself with thewrench, I did that just enough to
(03:41):
cause redness, abrasions, bruising,and to go into the emergency room,
which they checked me out, did x-rays,gave me medicine, gave me crutches.
And this happened during a week.
4th of July week when Ireally didn't wanna work.
So that got me outta work.
But what I'm shameful for, and I feela lot of guilt is, my chief at the
(04:02):
time completely supported me and Iwent in and I absolutely lied to him.
It would've been okay if I would'vesaid, chief, I can't be here.
I'm struggling.
I'm triggered.
I just can't work.
I'm sorry.
He was supportive from the time Ipulled the trigger, up until he retired.
There was just a part of me that feltlike I had to lie and make up excuses
(04:22):
of why I didn't wanna be at work.
Can you walk me through a littlebit, if you can remember the
steps, because you said you wentthrough depression and anxiety.
In the immediate aftermath I would,well, any incident like that, I
would've been shaking like a leaf.
I couldn't have thought.
So how long before you feltyourself slipping into depression?
(04:44):
I started going downhill, slowly at first.
But then, then it reallystarted speeding up.
And the reason why I knew thatis because before my shooting,
I had many bottles of wine and Iused to collect bottles of wine.
And after my shooting, I wentthrough those bottles of wine really
quick and then I went to liquorright away, vodka and whiskey.
(05:05):
'Cause it got me going.
It, it got me to whereI wanted to go quicker.
So I started abusing alcohol.
And I did this for years.
I have an example here I thing ofvodka, 350 milliliters of vodka.
I would drink this in 30 minutesor less and sleep the day away.
I would also stop at theclosest gas station before I
(05:26):
would have to go to an event.
You know, on my off time, if I wasinvited somewhere to a party or even
to go grocery shopping, I would stop atthe local gas station and pick up two or
three of these fireball whiskeys and Iwould drink two or three of 'em right in
the car, right in the parking lot of thegas station, throw 'em in the back of my
SUV, or I would throw 'em out the windowwhile I was driving to my destination.
(05:50):
And I would rationalize thatit would take about 30 minutes
for the alcohol to kick in.
And then by then I would be where I was Iwas heading and things were gonna be okay.
That's just wrong.
I, I was lucky that I didn't crash.
I didn't kill somebody.
I didn't hurt myself or bearrested for drunk driving.
It was just a very risky behavior.
And, you know, another risky behaviorI did was casual sex and police
(06:13):
officers commonly wear these tacticalvests and you can remove the patches.
And this is just some of my poor coping.
It says, drugs, alcohol, and casual sex.
And...
Wait, wait, wait!
You don't, you don't, youdon't wear that on site?
No, I don't.
I don't.
No.
That'd be great.
Call me if you ever do.
Right.
But no, I mean, another way thatI poorly coped was casual sex.
(06:35):
I would meet women online strictlyfor sex, and sometimes we'd meet and
within 30 minutes we'd be having sex.
And, and to me, sex is wonderful.
It's playful, it's exciting, itfeels good, and it's something
you share with somebody.
It's something special.
But I did it because I was tryingto numb what I was thinking,
numb what I was feeling.
And I remember one time I waslaying in bed with a woman after
(06:58):
we just got done having sex.
And I thought to myself, yougotta knock this off, Adam.
I started not liking myself.
Yeah.
And all these poor coping strategies, theycall 'em strategies, which they weren't,
they just weren't working for me anymore.
They caused me more anxiety,depression, stress, because, you
know, take sex for an example.
I was worried I was gonna catch anSTD or I would get a woman pregnant.
(07:22):
But even with that worry, that stress,it wasn't enough for me to stop doing it.
I read that you said, how couldpeople not know your coworkers?
I think an interestingthing happens, right?
You had the event and so everythingyou've just described, you
can connect back to the event.
Right absolutely.
But, but a month after the event.
(07:43):
Your friends or otherofficers have moved on.
Yeah.
So they don't connect the two things.
Right?
Right.
And I think, I find it hard to believethat people didn't know I was struggling
because this happened in 2016.
I didn't finally decide toget the right kind of help.
Until 2021.
So that was five, six years later.
Wow.
So I find it hard to believethat people didn't know.
(08:05):
I really think they did, but theydidn't know what to do or what to say.
So they chose not to get involved.
And I understand that.
I was that kind of officer years ago,I would think, I really like this guy.
We go on many calls together, but Ithink I'm gonna keep my distance because
how is that gonna look, look on me?
How is that gonna be my reputation?
I don't want to get in troubleor get tangled up in whatever
(08:26):
they're going through.
So I just chose to do nothing.
So I get it, but I find it hard to believethat nobody knew, because there are
many times that I would be online, likemy social media and have pity parties
for myself when I'm consuming alcohol.
Like nobody understands.
I wish I would've called in sick that day.
Even one time I was at a weddingreception and I had many Long Island
(08:49):
iced teas and I was so intoxicated.
I had to go into the men's restroom,sit down in the stall, and I started
texting like this and my pastor, herecently passed away, so I haven't
been able to apologize to him.
I mean, in spirit I have, but mypastor reached out to me and kind
of just in support, said somethingto me and I told him to F off.
(09:12):
I couldn't believe it,and I didn't remember that
because I was so intoxicated.
But the next morning I read thatpost and I'm like, oh my God!
I can't believe that.
And that was all over social media and youknow, I was friends with guys and gals at
the police department, so I find it hardto believe nobody knew I was struggling.
Yeah.
Do you think part of thatis being a male, man up?
(09:36):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I remember when I was inthe Army, it seemed like the main
theme was suck it up and drive on.
Right.
You got a problem, suckit up and drive on.
Well, I think that's maybe one of thereasons why I stopped going to therapy
when I was struggling too, becauseI thought to myself, you know what?
I can just keep going.
I can work this out on myown and eventually everything
(09:56):
will fall into place.
And you know, I got another patch hereand it does, it says I see a therapist.
Oh, that be great.
It's okay to see a therapist.
I see one now every Monday at 5:00PM I'm sitting on the couch talking
to my therapist and it's great.
It's helpful.
It works for me.
You know, here's another one.
I take medication.
20 milligrams of Lexapro every morningI wake up, I take a leak, I pop a
(10:21):
pill, and I hit the ground running.
Yeah, it's helpful.
It works for me, so I'mgonna keep doing it.
Well, you know, it's interesting becauseas you talk about that on several of
your articles where they allow peopleto comment, there's a whole bunch
of people who are really, and I knowyou know this, you must know this.
There are a whole bunch of peoplewho are supportive, but then.
Yep.
You also get those people,well, you shouldn't have picked
(10:41):
what you do for a living.
You shouldn't be in this position.
Right.
Yep.
It comes with the territory.
Right.
Right.
Well, it's like nobody knows how they'regoing to react when something happens.
Is that also what we do to veterans?
Do we dismiss them if they starthaving mental health issues?
Right, right.
And you know, I was watchinganother speaker just the other day.
It was a meme and, and he was talking toa large audience and he talked about how.
(11:05):
When officers get shot in the line ofduty or they get injured and they go to
the hospital, all the other officers goto the hospital and they pray for 'em,
and they're there and they support 'em.
And then when they get discharged,they're all standing there clapping
and, Hey, we're, we're proud of you.
You made it out.
You're getting better now.
But he said, do we do that with,with officers with mental health?
No, we don't show up at the hospital.
(11:27):
We don't welcome 'em back to thepolice department or welcome 'em home.
It's almost like it, they're doing iton, on their own by themselves, unless
they have a spouse or a boyfriendgirlfriend or something like that.
So, I mean, I think that hasa lot to do with the stigma
that's around mental health.
Yeah.
And that needs to, that needs to change.
Do you think if you would've been honest,they would've responded differently?
(11:50):
I mean, you were certainly telling themeverything they needed to know, but.
Right, right.
I think so.
I mean, in the beginning I was therewere many times that I would go into work
and go into the chief's office and say.
Chief, I can't be here.
I need to go home.
And he was great.
He was supportive.
He said, go home, takeas much time as you need.
He didn't like roll his eyes andthen look at the schedule and say,
(12:13):
I'll figure out, I'll figure out.
Just go home.
I'll figure out who can cover you.
And, and I knew he was supportive.
His name was Chief Cal Smokowicz.
He is retired, but almost immediatelyhe reached out to the media and
he said that he supported me.
I printed out his quote, put itin a frame and put it on my desk.
Because when you know your boss or yourchief supports you, that means everything.
(12:35):
You could be having a crappy day and youlook at this and it makes you feel better.
And he goes, I think he believedthat he had no other choice.
I support him.
And I was like.
It meant so much to me, and I knewhe was telling the truth and that he
was genuine because there were timesthat he didn't know I was around.
I could be down the hall around fromhis office and I would hear him speaking
(12:59):
about my shooting and defending me.
So I knew what he was sayingwas genuine and he wasn't just,
you know, talking the talk.
Yeah.
Well, no, what ended up happeningin that department then?
With the chief or with me or?
With
you?
With you?
So what had happened was, is December28th, 2021, I went to an active
(13:20):
shooter training at an elementaryschool and I had a panic attack.
We were watching a PowerPoint presentationabout different active shooters across
the United States and even overseas.
I was seated comfortably like I amnow, and I started getting really
uncomfortable, hot and a knotin my stomach and about a month.
About a minute, I reached up to myforehead and it was drenched in water.
(13:41):
Wow.
I was having a panic attack and my firstthought was, I have to fight this and
I have to hide what I'm going through.
However, there was like20, 30 other cops there.
They all knew me.
They all knew I wasinvolved in a shooting.
If I would've just said, I'm, I can't behere, I need to go, it would've been okay.
They understood and they knew me, butI think because of maybe that male
(14:05):
ego, maybe because of the stigma,my first reaction was, I have to
fight it and I have to hide it.
And, and I did.
So I went through the training, passedthe training, went a couple days
off, came back on New Year's Eve.
I was in uniform.
I was a detective at the time,and I sat down in my squad car
and I thought, you know what?
I'm done.
(14:26):
I quit.
I ain't doing this no more.
And I don't think I wantedto quit being a cop.
I think I wanted to quit coping.
The way I was coping for many years.
'cause it wasn't working for me anymore.
Right.
That was the final straw.
So I reached out to my sergeant,he came, sat in my squad and I
said, you know what sergeant?
I'm done.
I quit.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I need you to come inwith me to the chief.
(14:47):
Now this was a different chief,not the same chief that was
with me during my shooting.
And he goes, yep, I'll come with you.
So we sat down with the chief.
The chief and thesergeant were supportive.
The chief said, go home,take some time off.
Let me know when you'reready to come back.
So I think about two weeks passed andI reached out and I said, I'm ready.
I wanna come back to work.
And he said, Adam, the only way youcan is if you take a fitness for duty
(15:10):
test, a psychological evaluation.
And I was all for it because Ihad been speaking since 2019.
Strong mental health advocate.
You know, let's go.
I'm fine.
I can come back to work.
So I scheduled that appointmentand it was a 9:00 AM to 4:00
PM all day long appointment.
Ooh!
When I'm driving there, I'm thinking tomyself, I'm gonna lie, I'm gonna lie.
(15:31):
I'm gonna beat this test.
I'm gonna lie, I'm fine!
I can go back to work.
So I got there and I was sittingin the waiting room and I thought,
Adam, the only way that you're gonnaget better is if you're honest.
You have to be honest.
Yes.
That's the only way this is gonna work.
And I was honest.
I decided to be honest.
And you know, I have my psychologicalevaluation right here, and
(15:52):
it's a nine page evaluation.
I was unfit for duty.
Got another patch here.
I was unfit for duty.
I was diagnosed with majordepressive disorder, PTSD, acute
stress with dissociative featuresand I couldn't go back to work.
So the police department psychologistrequested said, Hey, it's a good idea.
(16:13):
Six months short-term disability.
We'll go through therapy.
We'll do what we have to do to try toget you healthy and then, you know,
you could probably go back to work.
No guarantees.
But this is the plan.
So I requested a 90 day leaveof absence at the police
department, and it was approved.
So I started going to therapytwo, three times a day.
I was doing all kindsof different therapy.
It was great.
(16:33):
I didn't miss any appointments.
While I was on the leave of absence.
They put me on a safety plan becauseduring my assessment they discovered some
suicidal ideations, which there were.
One example of that is you know,I have a complete solid replica of
my, of my duty weapon right here.
No working parts.
It's a plastic replica.
(16:54):
What I would do easily a dozentimes is I put my gun to my head.
I would remove the magazine,clear the chamber, take the bullet
out, and I would just put it tomy tempo and pull the trigger.
'cause I wanted to hearthat metallic click.
I never did that thinking I wanna die.
That thought never crossed my mind.
But I don't know why I did that.
And some people said maybe you wereplanning it, maybe you were preparing
(17:17):
it somehow that you wanted to do that.
But I never thought I want to kill myself.
Then I think, how many timesdid I do that when I was so
intoxicated that I don't remember?
I very well could have done that.
So after I was put on that safety planshortly later, within the same month, one
of the sergeants came out to my house.
(17:38):
I lived outside of the community whereI was a police officer and gave me a
written document to immediately ceaseand desist speaking about my mental
health, my personal mental healthexperience when it comes to my shooting.
If I didn't stop talking about it, Iwould be disciplined or terminated.
And this was a shock to me becauseI had been speaking publicly since
(18:00):
2019 to churches, to anyone whowanted to listen to colleges, to
police academies, you name it.
So that scared me, so I stopped.
When the 90 day leave of absenceexpired, the chief called me in.
I sat down with him and I liked the guy.
I respected him, I admired him.
He was retired from another agency.
When he came aboard, I'mlike, this guy is great.
(18:22):
We're really gonna dosome great policing here.
But then he said, we're notextending your leave of absence.
You can either resign oryou're gonna be terminated.
And I thought to myself, I'm not quitting.
I'm not resigning.
I was involved in a shooting and I'mstruggling because of the shooting, so I
chose not to resign and I was terminated.
I was walked outta the police departmentand jumped in my Jeep, and that was it.
(18:48):
I had worked there for 14 years.
I had never been disciplined.
I had never been suspended.
I received medals, awards, citationsfrom state representatives,
from senators, you name it.
And now I feel like they justwashed their hands of me and
I'm thinking, what do I do now?
But you found your way eventuallyback into law enforcement.
I did.
(19:08):
Absolutely.
And by the grace of God andbecause of my sister named Amy.
I went home that day and startedreaching out to family members
and started thinking, youknow, what am I gonna do now?
And my sister said, why don'tyou move down here by family?
And that's three and ahalf, four hours away.
And I told her, you know what, Amy?
I don't have much money.
And she said, Adam, all youhave to do is get down here and
(19:30):
we'll take care of the rest.
So I did that and I moved down by her.
Moved into her basement, Amy andI joke, Hey, at least it wasn't
mom and dad's basement, you know?
What I didn't know was, you know,at the time I wasn't seeing a
therapist, I wasn't on medicine.
What I didn't know was my, mysister secretively and which was
a good thing, was looking for atherapist behind my back for me.
(19:53):
She was on the outsidelooking in, noticed that I was
struggling, noticed I needed help.
So she did that, and that's thetherapist that I see today, and
I've been seeing her ever since.
Now, after about a year of puttingmyself first and getting healthy.
I thought, you know what?
I wanna be a cop again.
You know, at first I'm like,nobody's gonna hire me.
(20:14):
They're gonna do this background check,and they're gonna think, this guy's a nut.
We're not hiring him.
And that's what I truly believed.
I even thought aboutgoing back to college.
I'm like, I'm done being a cop.
But after I started getting healthier.
I wanted to be a police officer again.
So.
I reached out to 50 agencies within a 30minute drive time from where I was living.
And I mailed that out and thenext day, police departments were
(20:37):
calling, they were emailing me.
They wanted to scheduleinterviews virtually, in person.
I was like, wow, peoplewant me, they're interested.
So then I interviewed and went throughthe process and within a two week
period, three police departments inthree separate counties offered me
conditional offers of employment.
So I picked one andthat's where I work today.
(20:58):
Shortly after being hired, Iwas promoted to captain and my
Chief, Chief Sean McGee is great.
We have a lake patrol andwe also have a therapy dog.
So Chief and I were out on the lakeand he goes, you know what, Adam,
I know you speak publicly aboutmental health and your experience.
I support you.
If you wanna keep doing it,go ahead and you can even
(21:18):
wear your uniform if you want.
Wow.
One of the reasons we're talkingright now, Mike, is because I have
that kind of support, not only frommy chief, but from many other people.
What does Amy do for a living?
She's a nurse.
Oh, okay.
All right.
She had to have some people backgroundto be able to be good at that.
Yeah.
And we have a great relationship.
She's a year and a half younger than me.
(21:40):
We've always had a great relationship.
So when she told me, kindof said, we need to talk.
This is what I've been doing.
I wasn't upset at all.
It was kind of a relief because Iknew I needed help, but I wasn't
gonna take that step and take it,you know, reach out and look for it.
What worked for you?
Because you did a lotof different therapies.
What do you think?
(22:01):
'Cause we've had people ontalking about all sorts of stuff.
What worked for you?
What worked for me is, you know,psychotherapy, talk therapy that was
important because, you know, just gettingit out was healthy and helpful for me.
But also EMDR was helpfulfor me because I didn't know.
But from the time of my shootinguntil like even now, I would
(22:24):
always think I'm not good enough.
I'm not good enough.
I'm not good enough because like Isaid earlier, I always prided myself.
I was good at talking peopledown and not using force.
While I actually shot and killedsomebody now, and I'm thinking,
well, I'm not good enough.
If I was, I wouldn't have had to do that.
But that's not true.
I am good enough becauseI used my training, I used
(22:46):
my experience, everything.
I was able to stop the threat, stop her.
Her name was Melissa.
So I was able to do that.
And, but for whatever reason, I wasthinking that I wasn't good enough.
So that EMDR was very helpful.
We've had people talking aboutthat on here, and it's one of those
therapies that certainly people havefind, helps them refocus and reframe
(23:08):
the traumatic events in their life.
And then you started Stopthe Threat - Stop the Stigma.
I did.
I'm the founder of Stop theThreat - Stop the Stigma.
I established that in 2021 in hopes thatby sharing my experience, I'll inspire
other police officers and those who workin the public safety profession and pretty
much anybody, no matter what your job is,even if you're unemployed, to reach out,
(23:33):
to speak about your mental health, toget help, and it's been very successful.
And I've spoken with people in theUnited States, in Canada, in Poland,
in the UK and Germany and Australia.
It's great.
And I found that we're allconnected by mental health.
And it doesn't matter.
You could live thousands of milesaway, but we're all talking about
(23:55):
the same thing and it's great.
So that's something that.
I have found that we all havein common, no matter where you
live, and it's been helpful.
It's been inspiring
for me.
It's been therapeutic for meand it's been helping people.
So that's what it's all about.
What's the reaction you get whenyou talk to people, especially, I'm
interested in like, people who workin jobs where they get that code of
(24:15):
silence, deal with it, walk it off.
Yeah.
There's a lot of guys and gals thatcome up to me when I speak publicly.
They come up to me on break or afterwards.
Or they stop me when I'm walkingout to my Jeep and they're like.
You know what, Adam, keepdoing what you're doing.
Because they say they support us, but theydon't, if they see you as a liability,
they'll find a way to get rid of you.
And I truly believe thatI'm an example of that.
(24:38):
And you know, I hear different stories.
One jailer told me the first weekhe was employed by a Sheriff's
department, he found an inmate hanging.
Oh, and this is a really tough guy.
You see him and it's like,this guy's invincible.
I'm glad he is on our team.
You know, the, what you would wanta police officer to look like.
And he said, you know what, Adam?
I went home that night and I was crying.
(24:58):
I didn't know what to do.
I never experienced anythinglike that and nobody really
showed me or told me what to do.
So I get a lot of that.
I mean, there is a stigmaassociated in mental health.
Especially in the law enforcementprofession and first responders, it
is getting better because like youand I are talking about it right now.
Yep.
There's more people talkingabout it, which is great.
(25:20):
I believe it's always gonna be there.
Just like some things arealways gonna be there.
It'll get better and it is.
But I think it reallyneeds to start in college.
I think it needs to continue inrecruit schools, police academies.
And then continue when you'reemployed as a police officer or
a firefighter or a paramedic.
First responders need to know that ifthey're struggling, they can reach out for
(25:45):
help and they're not gonna lose their job.
They're not gonna lose their livelihood.
They have a mortgage.
They have a wife and kids and afamily, and all kinds of extra toys
they buy and they want to pay for,but they're not gonna reach out
unless they know absolutely it's okay.
Which it is, but okay to the pointwhere they're not gonna lose everything.
(26:06):
It's really hard.
Right.
Your thoughts on mental healthprofessionals helping law enforcement
when they come to people who aredealing with mental health crises.
Right.
Yeah.
I know when I first started therapyshortly after my shooting, I didn't
know that there were therapists thatspecialized with first responders
(26:28):
that specialized in trauma.
I just went to a regular therapistand I thought, Hey, that's all
I gotta do is go there and starttalking and things are gonna work out.
And I remember the first 45 minutes I wastalking to my therapist and she seemed
great and it felt great to get it allout, and then I left and I'm thinking
she has no idea what I'm going through.
That was such a complete waste of time,and that's why I kind of went a couple
(26:52):
weeks, took a few months off, wenta couple months, took a whole summer
off, and then I just stopped going alltogether because I thought, you know what?
She doesn't get it.
I can deal with it myself, and as longas I just keep going, it'll all fall
into place and things will be okay.
But that's not the case.
I needed help.
I couldn't do it by myself.
I like one of the things you did earlierduring our conversation, you know, if
(27:15):
you had asthma, you'd have no problemwhatsoever holding up the inhaler, right?
Oh, right.
If you had diabetes, you'd haveno trouble showing me the stint.
And here they are, Lexapro,right here at 20 milligrams.
And you know, when I speak to alot of people, especially in, in
public, I say, you know, I mentionedthe sex part 'cause I talk about
(27:35):
the casual sex is toward coping.
And I'm like.
Who here enjoys sex?
And a lot of people are shaking theirhead and they're like, yeah, I do.
And I'm like, okay, so if you werehaving issues with sex, would you
pop a pill to help you out and mate?
And they're all like, yeah.
I'm like, then, then why wouldn'tyou pop one for your mental health?
It's okay.
You don't have to telleverybody that you're doing it.
You don't have to share yourpersonal business with everybody.
(27:57):
You ain't gotta go on apodcast like we're doing.
You don't have to write articles.
Nobody has to know.
If it helps you, whywouldn't you take that?
And you can see the men and eventhe women all agreeing like,
yeah, that kind of makes sense.
I think it's fear, right?
It's fear, fear, fear thatkeeps people from doing it.
I think so.
And then, you know what, ifsomebody finds out that Adam takes
(28:17):
Lexapro, they're gonna judge me.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be ashamed.
I'm gonna be, you know, put downand criticized and yeah, it's
helpful and it helps me and I'llcontinue to do those things as
long as it continues to be helpful.
And I think, Adam, thanks to people likeyourself, I think we're getting there.
We're certainly light yearsbeyond where we were when this
(28:38):
incident first happened to you.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, you all are aware that I'mgonna stick Stop the Threat - Stop
the Stigma links onto podcast here.
Adam, thanks so much.
Not only for your work, butfor your courage and for your
willingness to talk about it.
Thank you, Mike.
For the rest of youlisten anytime you can.
Until then, stay safe.
(28:58):
Stay strong and strongmeans just deal with it.
It's okay.
Right.
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction,brought to you by Westwords Consulting.
I'm Mike McGowan.
Keep it to yourself is not a greattagline when it comes to your mental
health, and since May is Mental HealthAwareness Month, it's even less healthy
depending on what you do for a living.
Well, I'm honored to have as our guesttoday, Adam Meyers, the founder of
(00:38):
Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma.
Adam has been a police officerin Wisconsin for 23 years.
He's currently a captain.
He's also a certified peerspecialist in Wisconsin.
Welcome Adam.
Thanks, Mike.
Thanks for having me and giving me thisopportunity to talk about mental health.
Oh, I'm so glad you're ableto, especially this month.
Okay.
So I've read a lot.
That's what I do when I do this andyou start one of the articles or
(01:01):
blogs that I read with a criticalincident that happened to you in 2016.
What was that?
Yeah.
On Friday, April 8th, 2016, I wasinvolved in a critical incident.
I used deadly force on someonewho armed themselves with a
hatchet inside our Walmart store.
Yeah.
Okay.
If you're armed with a hatchet and Iassume that you went through all of
(01:24):
the protocol that you're supposed togo, put it down, put it down, right?
I did.
Yeah.
I gave her multiple verbal commandsto stop, to drop the hatchet.
She kept advancing towards me, and thenI had no other option but to shoot.
Yeah.
You, you know, you've been, youwere in the military prior to your
becoming a police officer, right?
I was military police, yep.
Well, okay, and then you're also a,I assume you get training for that.
(01:47):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Was that the first time youhad fired your weapon on duty?
It was, all my years of lawenforcement, I always prided myself
in never using force against somebody.
I was always able to talk people down.
In the 23 years of being a cop,I've never pepper sprayed anybody.
I've never used my baton on anybody.
I have tased people before.
But yeah, this was the first time I everused my duty weapon in the line of duty.
(02:10):
Man.
So did it prepare you though,did all of your training, it
prepared you to do your job, right?
Correct.
Right.
And at the time I was alsoa firearms instructor.
I was an instructor inother disciplines as well.
But you know, as much as policeofficers train, especially in Wisconsin,
I mean, we're trained very well.
(02:33):
I don't think you really cantrain somebody to respond
after a critical incident.
I mean, you can give them ideas,you can give them resources, but
everybody's gonna react differently.
I mean, somebody going through thesame situation, same critical incident
as me could be perfectly fine.
Yeah.
You know, I was an after mine, soit's So training is important though.
(02:53):
What'd you experience?
A lot of depression, anxiety.
I started abusing alcohol.
I used casual sex as a coping strategy.
And I tried marijuana for the first timein my life, but I was, I was depressed.
I isolated myself, self harm.
There was one time that I struckmyself with a 12 inch correction
(03:17):
wrench, which I have a example of itright here, hit my knee a few times.
And the reason for this is becauseI felt like I was using all my call
in sick days, all my, I can't behere, you know, poor Adam type thing.
So I felt like I had to lie.
I felt like I had to come up withother excuses to get outta work.
And when I hit myself with thewrench, I did that just enough to
(03:41):
cause redness, abrasions, bruising,and to go into the emergency room,
which they checked me out, did x-rays,gave me medicine, gave me crutches.
And this happened during a week.
4th of July week when Ireally didn't wanna work.
So that got me outta work.
But what I'm shameful for, and I feela lot of guilt is, my chief at the
(04:02):
time completely supported me and Iwent in and I absolutely lied to him.
It would've been okay if I would'vesaid, chief, I can't be here.
I'm struggling.
I'm triggered.
I just can't work.
I'm sorry.
He was supportive from the time Ipulled the trigger, up until he retired.
There was just a part of me that feltlike I had to lie and make up excuses
(04:22):
of why I didn't wanna be at work.
Can you walk me through a littlebit, if you can remember the
steps, because you said you wentthrough depression and anxiety.
In the immediate aftermath I would,well, any incident like that, I
would've been shaking like a leaf.
I couldn't have thought.
So how long before you feltyourself slipping into depression?
(04:44):
I started going downhill, slowly at first.
But then, then it reallystarted speeding up.
And the reason why I knew thatis because before my shooting,
I had many bottles of wine and Iused to collect bottles of wine.
And after my shooting, I wentthrough those bottles of wine really
quick and then I went to liquorright away, vodka and whiskey.
(05:05):
'Cause it got me going.
It, it got me to whereI wanted to go quicker.
So I started abusing alcohol.
And I did this for years.
I have an example here I thing ofvodka, 350 milliliters of vodka.
I would drink this in 30 minutesor less and sleep the day away.
I would also stop at theclosest gas station before I
(05:26):
would have to go to an event.
You know, on my off time, if I wasinvited somewhere to a party or even
to go grocery shopping, I would stop atthe local gas station and pick up two or
three of these fireball whiskeys and Iwould drink two or three of 'em right in
the car, right in the parking lot of thegas station, throw 'em in the back of my
SUV, or I would throw 'em out the windowwhile I was driving to my destination.
(05:50):
And I would rationalize thatit would take about 30 minutes
for the alcohol to kick in.
And then by then I would be where I was Iwas heading and things were gonna be okay.
That's just wrong.
I, I was lucky that I didn't crash.
I didn't kill somebody.
I didn't hurt myself or bearrested for drunk driving.
It was just a very risky behavior.
And, you know, another risky behaviorI did was casual sex and police
(06:13):
officers commonly wear these tacticalvests and you can remove the patches.
And this is just some of my poor coping.
It says, drugs, alcohol, and casual sex.
And...
Wait, wait, wait!
You don't, you don't, youdon't wear that on site?
No, I don't.
I don't.
No.
That'd be great.
Call me if you ever do.
Right.
But no, I mean, another way thatI poorly coped was casual sex.
(06:35):
I would meet women online strictlyfor sex, and sometimes we'd meet and
within 30 minutes we'd be having sex.
And, and to me, sex is wonderful.
It's playful, it's exciting, itfeels good, and it's something
you share with somebody.
It's something special.
But I did it because I was tryingto numb what I was thinking,
numb what I was feeling.
And I remember one time I waslaying in bed with a woman after
(06:58):
we just got done having sex.
And I thought to myself, yougotta knock this off, Adam.
I started not liking myself.
Yeah.
And all these poor coping strategies, theycall 'em strategies, which they weren't,
they just weren't working for me anymore.
They caused me more anxiety,depression, stress, because, you
know, take sex for an example.
I was worried I was gonna catch anSTD or I would get a woman pregnant.
(07:22):
But even with that worry, that stress,it wasn't enough for me to stop doing it.
I read that you said, how couldpeople not know your coworkers?
I think an interestingthing happens, right?
You had the event and so everythingyou've just described, you
can connect back to the event.
Right absolutely.
But, but a month after the event.
(07:43):
Your friends or otherofficers have moved on.
Yeah.
So they don't connect the two things.
Right?
Right.
And I think, I find it hard to believethat people didn't know I was struggling
because this happened in 2016.
I didn't finally decide toget the right kind of help.
Until 2021.
So that was five, six years later.
Wow.
So I find it hard to believethat people didn't know.
(08:05):
I really think they did, but theydidn't know what to do or what to say.
So they chose not to get involved.
And I understand that.
I was that kind of officer years ago,I would think, I really like this guy.
We go on many calls together, but Ithink I'm gonna keep my distance because
how is that gonna look, look on me?
How is that gonna be my reputation?
I don't want to get in troubleor get tangled up in whatever
(08:26):
they're going through.
So I just chose to do nothing.
So I get it, but I find it hard to believethat nobody knew, because there are
many times that I would be online, likemy social media and have pity parties
for myself when I'm consuming alcohol.
Like nobody understands.
I wish I would've called in sick that day.
Even one time I was at a weddingreception and I had many Long Island
(08:49):
iced teas and I was so intoxicated.
I had to go into the men's restroom,sit down in the stall, and I started
texting like this and my pastor, herecently passed away, so I haven't
been able to apologize to him.
I mean, in spirit I have, but mypastor reached out to me and kind
of just in support, said somethingto me and I told him to F off.
(09:12):
I couldn't believe it,and I didn't remember that
because I was so intoxicated.
But the next morning I read thatpost and I'm like, oh my God!
I can't believe that.
And that was all over social media and youknow, I was friends with guys and gals at
the police department, so I find it hardto believe nobody knew I was struggling.
Yeah.
Do you think part of thatis being a male, man up?
(09:36):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I remember when I was inthe Army, it seemed like the main
theme was suck it up and drive on.
Right.
You got a problem, suckit up and drive on.
Well, I think that's maybe one of thereasons why I stopped going to therapy
when I was struggling too, becauseI thought to myself, you know what?
I can just keep going.
I can work this out on myown and eventually everything
(09:56):
will fall into place.
And you know, I got another patch hereand it does, it says I see a therapist.
Oh, that be great.
It's okay to see a therapist.
I see one now every Monday at 5:00PM I'm sitting on the couch talking
to my therapist and it's great.
It's helpful.
It works for me.
You know, here's another one.
I take medication.
20 milligrams of Lexapro every morningI wake up, I take a leak, I pop a
(10:21):
pill, and I hit the ground running.
Yeah, it's helpful.
It works for me, so I'mgonna keep doing it.
Well, you know, it's interesting becauseas you talk about that on several of
your articles where they allow peopleto comment, there's a whole bunch
of people who are really, and I knowyou know this, you must know this.
There are a whole bunch of peoplewho are supportive, but then.
Yep.
You also get those people,well, you shouldn't have picked
(10:41):
what you do for a living.
You shouldn't be in this position.
Right.
Yep.
It comes with the territory.
Right.
Right.
Well, it's like nobody knows how they'regoing to react when something happens.
Is that also what we do to veterans?
Do we dismiss them if they starthaving mental health issues?
Right, right.
And you know, I was watchinganother speaker just the other day.
It was a meme and, and he was talking toa large audience and he talked about how.
(11:05):
When officers get shot in the line ofduty or they get injured and they go to
the hospital, all the other officers goto the hospital and they pray for 'em,
and they're there and they support 'em.
And then when they get discharged,they're all standing there clapping
and, Hey, we're, we're proud of you.
You made it out.
You're getting better now.
But he said, do we do that with,with officers with mental health?
No, we don't show up at the hospital.
(11:27):
We don't welcome 'em back to thepolice department or welcome 'em home.
It's almost like it, they're doing iton, on their own by themselves, unless
they have a spouse or a boyfriendgirlfriend or something like that.
So, I mean, I think that hasa lot to do with the stigma
that's around mental health.
Yeah.
And that needs to, that needs to change.
Do you think if you would've been honest,they would've responded differently?
(11:50):
I mean, you were certainly telling themeverything they needed to know, but.
Right, right.
I think so.
I mean, in the beginning I was therewere many times that I would go into work
and go into the chief's office and say.
Chief, I can't be here.
I need to go home.
And he was great.
He was supportive.
He said, go home, takeas much time as you need.
He didn't like roll his eyes andthen look at the schedule and say,
(12:13):
I'll figure out, I'll figure out.
Just go home.
I'll figure out who can cover you.
And, and I knew he was supportive.
His name was Chief Cal Smokowicz.
He is retired, but almost immediatelyhe reached out to the media and
he said that he supported me.
I printed out his quote, put itin a frame and put it on my desk.
Because when you know your boss or yourchief supports you, that means everything.
(12:35):
You could be having a crappy day and youlook at this and it makes you feel better.
And he goes, I think he believedthat he had no other choice.
I support him.
And I was like.
It meant so much to me, and I knewhe was telling the truth and that he
was genuine because there were timesthat he didn't know I was around.
I could be down the hall around fromhis office and I would hear him speaking
(12:59):
about my shooting and defending me.
So I knew what he was sayingwas genuine and he wasn't just,
you know, talking the talk.
Yeah.
Well, no, what ended up happeningin that department then?
With the chief or with me or?
With
you?
With you?
So what had happened was, is December28th, 2021, I went to an active
(13:20):
shooter training at an elementaryschool and I had a panic attack.
We were watching a PowerPoint presentationabout different active shooters across
the United States and even overseas.
I was seated comfortably like I amnow, and I started getting really
uncomfortable, hot and a knotin my stomach and about a month.
About a minute, I reached up to myforehead and it was drenched in water.
(13:41):
Wow.
I was having a panic attack and my firstthought was, I have to fight this and
I have to hide what I'm going through.
However, there was like20, 30 other cops there.
They all knew me.
They all knew I wasinvolved in a shooting.
If I would've just said, I'm, I can't behere, I need to go, it would've been okay.
They understood and they knew me, butI think because of maybe that male
(14:05):
ego, maybe because of the stigma,my first reaction was, I have to
fight it and I have to hide it.
And, and I did.
So I went through the training, passedthe training, went a couple days
off, came back on New Year's Eve.
I was in uniform.
I was a detective at the time,and I sat down in my squad car
and I thought, you know what?
I'm done.
(14:26):
I quit.
I ain't doing this no more.
And I don't think I wantedto quit being a cop.
I think I wanted to quit coping.
The way I was coping for many years.
'cause it wasn't working for me anymore.
Right.
That was the final straw.
So I reached out to my sergeant,he came, sat in my squad and I
said, you know what sergeant?
I'm done.
I quit.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I need you to come inwith me to the chief.
(14:47):
Now this was a different chief,not the same chief that was
with me during my shooting.
And he goes, yep, I'll come with you.
So we sat down with the chief.
The chief and thesergeant were supportive.
The chief said, go home,take some time off.
Let me know when you'reready to come back.
So I think about two weeks passed andI reached out and I said, I'm ready.
I wanna come back to work.
And he said, Adam, the only way youcan is if you take a fitness for duty
(15:10):
test, a psychological evaluation.
And I was all for it because Ihad been speaking since 2019.
Strong mental health advocate.
You know, let's go.
I'm fine.
I can come back to work.
So I scheduled that appointmentand it was a 9:00 AM to 4:00
PM all day long appointment.
Ooh!
When I'm driving there, I'm thinking tomyself, I'm gonna lie, I'm gonna lie.
(15:31):
I'm gonna beat this test.
I'm gonna lie, I'm fine!
I can go back to work.
So I got there and I was sittingin the waiting room and I thought,
Adam, the only way that you're gonnaget better is if you're honest.
You have to be honest.
Yes.
That's the only way this is gonna work.
And I was honest.
I decided to be honest.
And you know, I have my psychologicalevaluation right here, and
(15:52):
it's a nine page evaluation.
I was unfit for duty.
Got another patch here.
I was unfit for duty.
I was diagnosed with majordepressive disorder, PTSD, acute
stress with dissociative featuresand I couldn't go back to work.
So the police department psychologistrequested said, Hey, it's a good idea.
(16:13):
Six months short-term disability.
We'll go through therapy.
We'll do what we have to do to try toget you healthy and then, you know,
you could probably go back to work.
No guarantees.
But this is the plan.
So I requested a 90 day leaveof absence at the police
department, and it was approved.
So I started going to therapytwo, three times a day.
I was doing all kindsof different therapy.
It was great.
(16:33):
I didn't miss any appointments.
While I was on the leave of absence.
They put me on a safety plan becauseduring my assessment they discovered some
suicidal ideations, which there were.
One example of that is you know,I have a complete solid replica of
my, of my duty weapon right here.
No working parts.
It's a plastic replica.
(16:54):
What I would do easily a dozentimes is I put my gun to my head.
I would remove the magazine,clear the chamber, take the bullet
out, and I would just put it tomy tempo and pull the trigger.
'cause I wanted to hearthat metallic click.
I never did that thinking I wanna die.
That thought never crossed my mind.
But I don't know why I did that.
And some people said maybe you wereplanning it, maybe you were preparing
(17:17):
it somehow that you wanted to do that.
But I never thought I want to kill myself.
Then I think, how many timesdid I do that when I was so
intoxicated that I don't remember?
I very well could have done that.
So after I was put on that safety planshortly later, within the same month, one
of the sergeants came out to my house.
(17:38):
I lived outside of the community whereI was a police officer and gave me a
written document to immediately ceaseand desist speaking about my mental
health, my personal mental healthexperience when it comes to my shooting.
If I didn't stop talking about it, Iwould be disciplined or terminated.
And this was a shock to me becauseI had been speaking publicly since
(18:00):
2019 to churches, to anyone whowanted to listen to colleges, to
police academies, you name it.
So that scared me, so I stopped.
When the 90 day leave of absenceexpired, the chief called me in.
I sat down with him and I liked the guy.
I respected him, I admired him.
He was retired from another agency.
When he came aboard, I'mlike, this guy is great.
(18:22):
We're really gonna dosome great policing here.
But then he said, we're notextending your leave of absence.
You can either resign oryou're gonna be terminated.
And I thought to myself, I'm not quitting.
I'm not resigning.
I was involved in a shooting and I'mstruggling because of the shooting, so I
chose not to resign and I was terminated.
I was walked outta the police departmentand jumped in my Jeep, and that was it.
(18:48):
I had worked there for 14 years.
I had never been disciplined.
I had never been suspended.
I received medals, awards, citationsfrom state representatives,
from senators, you name it.
And now I feel like they justwashed their hands of me and
I'm thinking, what do I do now?
But you found your way eventuallyback into law enforcement.
I did.
(19:08):
Absolutely.
And by the grace of God andbecause of my sister named Amy.
I went home that day and startedreaching out to family members
and started thinking, youknow, what am I gonna do now?
And my sister said, why don'tyou move down here by family?
And that's three and ahalf, four hours away.
And I told her, you know what, Amy?
I don't have much money.
And she said, Adam, all youhave to do is get down here and
(19:30):
we'll take care of the rest.
So I did that and I moved down by her.
Moved into her basement, Amy andI joke, Hey, at least it wasn't
mom and dad's basement, you know?
What I didn't know was, you know,at the time I wasn't seeing a
therapist, I wasn't on medicine.
What I didn't know was my, mysister secretively and which was
a good thing, was looking for atherapist behind my back for me.
(19:53):
She was on the outsidelooking in, noticed that I was
struggling, noticed I needed help.
So she did that, and that's thetherapist that I see today, and
I've been seeing her ever since.
Now, after about a year of puttingmyself first and getting healthy.
I thought, you know what?
I wanna be a cop again.
You know, at first I'm like,nobody's gonna hire me.
(20:14):
They're gonna do this background check,and they're gonna think, this guy's a nut.
We're not hiring him.
And that's what I truly believed.
I even thought aboutgoing back to college.
I'm like, I'm done being a cop.
But after I started getting healthier.
I wanted to be a police officer again.
So.
I reached out to 50 agencies within a 30minute drive time from where I was living.
And I mailed that out and thenext day, police departments were
(20:37):
calling, they were emailing me.
They wanted to scheduleinterviews virtually, in person.
I was like, wow, peoplewant me, they're interested.
So then I interviewed and went throughthe process and within a two week
period, three police departments inthree separate counties offered me
conditional offers of employment.
So I picked one andthat's where I work today.
(20:58):
Shortly after being hired, Iwas promoted to captain and my
Chief, Chief Sean McGee is great.
We have a lake patrol andwe also have a therapy dog.
So Chief and I were out on the lakeand he goes, you know what, Adam,
I know you speak publicly aboutmental health and your experience.
I support you.
If you wanna keep doing it,go ahead and you can even
(21:18):
wear your uniform if you want.
Wow.
One of the reasons we're talkingright now, Mike, is because I have
that kind of support, not only frommy chief, but from many other people.
What does Amy do for a living?
She's a nurse.
Oh, okay.
All right.
She had to have some people backgroundto be able to be good at that.
Yeah.
And we have a great relationship.
She's a year and a half younger than me.
(21:40):
We've always had a great relationship.
So when she told me, kindof said, we need to talk.
This is what I've been doing.
I wasn't upset at all.
It was kind of a relief because Iknew I needed help, but I wasn't
gonna take that step and take it,you know, reach out and look for it.
What worked for you?
Because you did a lotof different therapies.
What do you think?
(22:01):
'Cause we've had people ontalking about all sorts of stuff.
What worked for you?
What worked for me is, you know,psychotherapy, talk therapy that was
important because, you know, just gettingit out was healthy and helpful for me.
But also EMDR was helpfulfor me because I didn't know.
But from the time of my shootinguntil like even now, I would
(22:24):
always think I'm not good enough.
I'm not good enough.
I'm not good enough because like Isaid earlier, I always prided myself.
I was good at talking peopledown and not using force.
While I actually shot and killedsomebody now, and I'm thinking,
well, I'm not good enough.
If I was, I wouldn't have had to do that.
But that's not true.
I am good enough becauseI used my training, I used
(22:46):
my experience, everything.
I was able to stop the threat, stop her.
Her name was Melissa.
So I was able to do that.
And, but for whatever reason, I wasthinking that I wasn't good enough.
So that EMDR was very helpful.
We've had people talking aboutthat on here, and it's one of those
therapies that certainly people havefind, helps them refocus and reframe
(23:08):
the traumatic events in their life.
And then you started Stopthe Threat - Stop the Stigma.
I did.
I'm the founder of Stop theThreat - Stop the Stigma.
I established that in 2021 in hopes thatby sharing my experience, I'll inspire
other police officers and those who workin the public safety profession and pretty
much anybody, no matter what your job is,even if you're unemployed, to reach out,
(23:33):
to speak about your mental health, toget help, and it's been very successful.
And I've spoken with people in theUnited States, in Canada, in Poland,
in the UK and Germany and Australia.
It's great.
And I found that we're allconnected by mental health.
And it doesn't matter.
You could live thousands of milesaway, but we're all talking about
(23:55):
the same thing and it's great.
So that's something that.
I have found that we all havein common, no matter where you
live, and it's been helpful.
It's been inspiring
for me.
It's been therapeutic for meand it's been helping people.
So that's what it's all about.
What's the reaction you get whenyou talk to people, especially, I'm
interested in like, people who workin jobs where they get that code of
(24:15):
silence, deal with it, walk it off.
Yeah.
There's a lot of guys and gals thatcome up to me when I speak publicly.
They come up to me on break or afterwards.
Or they stop me when I'm walkingout to my Jeep and they're like.
You know what, Adam, keepdoing what you're doing.
Because they say they support us, but theydon't, if they see you as a liability,
they'll find a way to get rid of you.
And I truly believe thatI'm an example of that.
(24:38):
And you know, I hear different stories.
One jailer told me the first weekhe was employed by a Sheriff's
department, he found an inmate hanging.
Oh, and this is a really tough guy.
You see him and it's like,this guy's invincible.
I'm glad he is on our team.
You know, the, what you would wanta police officer to look like.
And he said, you know what, Adam?
I went home that night and I was crying.
(24:58):
I didn't know what to do.
I never experienced anythinglike that and nobody really
showed me or told me what to do.
So I get a lot of that.
I mean, there is a stigmaassociated in mental health.
Especially in the law enforcementprofession and first responders, it
is getting better because like youand I are talking about it right now.
Yep.
There's more people talkingabout it, which is great.
(25:20):
I believe it's always gonna be there.
Just like some things arealways gonna be there.
It'll get better and it is.
But I think it reallyneeds to start in college.
I think it needs to continue inrecruit schools, police academies.
And then continue when you'reemployed as a police officer or
a firefighter or a paramedic.
First responders need to know that ifthey're struggling, they can reach out for
(25:45):
help and they're not gonna lose their job.
They're not gonna lose their livelihood.
They have a mortgage.
They have a wife and kids and afamily, and all kinds of extra toys
they buy and they want to pay for,but they're not gonna reach out
unless they know absolutely it's okay.
Which it is, but okay to the pointwhere they're not gonna lose everything.
(26:06):
It's really hard.
Right.
Your thoughts on mental healthprofessionals helping law enforcement
when they come to people who aredealing with mental health crises.
Right.
Yeah.
I know when I first started therapyshortly after my shooting, I didn't
know that there were therapists thatspecialized with first responders
(26:28):
that specialized in trauma.
I just went to a regular therapistand I thought, Hey, that's all
I gotta do is go there and starttalking and things are gonna work out.
And I remember the first 45 minutes I wastalking to my therapist and she seemed
great and it felt great to get it allout, and then I left and I'm thinking
she has no idea what I'm going through.
That was such a complete waste of time,and that's why I kind of went a couple
(26:52):
weeks, took a few months off, wenta couple months, took a whole summer
off, and then I just stopped going alltogether because I thought, you know what?
She doesn't get it.
I can deal with it myself, and as longas I just keep going, it'll all fall
into place and things will be okay.
But that's not the case.
I needed help.
I couldn't do it by myself.
I like one of the things you did earlierduring our conversation, you know, if
(27:15):
you had asthma, you'd have no problemwhatsoever holding up the inhaler, right?
Oh, right.
If you had diabetes, you'd haveno trouble showing me the stint.
And here they are, Lexapro,right here at 20 milligrams.
And you know, when I speak to alot of people, especially in, in
public, I say, you know, I mentionedthe sex part 'cause I talk about
(27:35):
the casual sex is toward coping.
And I'm like.
Who here enjoys sex?
And a lot of people are shaking theirhead and they're like, yeah, I do.
And I'm like, okay, so if you werehaving issues with sex, would you
pop a pill to help you out and mate?
And they're all like, yeah.
I'm like, then, then why wouldn'tyou pop one for your mental health?
It's okay.
You don't have to telleverybody that you're doing it.
You don't have to share yourpersonal business with everybody.
(27:57):
You ain't gotta go on apodcast like we're doing.
You don't have to write articles.
Nobody has to know.
If it helps you, whywouldn't you take that?
And you can see the men and eventhe women all agreeing like,
yeah, that kind of makes sense.
I think it's fear, right?
It's fear, fear, fear thatkeeps people from doing it.
I think so.
And then, you know what, ifsomebody finds out that Adam takes
(28:17):
Lexapro, they're gonna judge me.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be ashamed.
I'm gonna be, you know, put downand criticized and yeah, it's
helpful and it helps me and I'llcontinue to do those things as
long as it continues to be helpful.
And I think, Adam, thanks to people likeyourself, I think we're getting there.
We're certainly light yearsbeyond where we were when this
(28:38):
incident first happened to you.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, you all are aware that I'mgonna stick Stop the Threat - Stop
the Stigma links onto podcast here.
Adam, thanks so much.
Not only for your work, butfor your courage and for your
willingness to talk about it.
Thank you, Mike.
For the rest of youlisten anytime you can.
Until then, stay safe.
(28:58):
Stay strong and strongmeans just deal with it.
It's okay.
Right.
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