April 2, 2025 • 30 mins
Some people seem to be born to help others. Rev. Dr. Monica L. Cummings is one of them. She has dedicated her life to being of service to others. Drawing on her experience as a college basketball player, Army Officer, Peace Corps Volunteer, parish and community minister, university faculty member, yoga and meditation instructor, and substance abuse counselor, Rev. Dr. Cummings supports those she works with with an inclusive, non-judgmental, compassionate, and relational approach to the healing process. In this podcast, she discusses her life’s work, interests, the importance of community, and recovery. Information about Dr. Cummings and iRest yoga can be found at iRest Store.
The views and opinions of the guests on this podcast are theirs and theirs alone and do not necessarily represent those of the host, Westwords Consulting or the Kenosha County Substance Abuse Coalition.
We're always interested in hearing from individuals or organizations who are working in substance use disorder treatment or prevention, mental health care and other spaces that lift up communities. This includes people living those experiences. If you or someone you know has a story to share or an interesting approach to care, contact us today!
Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
Subscribe to Our Email List to get new episodes in your inbox every week!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:12):
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding the Addiction Afflictionbrought to you by Westwords Consulting
and the Kenosha County Substance UseDisorder Coalition, I'm Mike McGowan.
You know, sometimes I run acrosspeople who have such a wide variety
of interests and expertise thatthe conversation involves much
more than just a topic or two.
And today is one of those days.
(00:34):
Reverend Dr. Monica Cummings hasdedicated her life to being of service
to others, drawing on her experienceas a college basketball player, army
officer, Peace Corps Volunteer, Parishand Community Minister, University
Faculty Member, Yoga, MeditationInstructor, and Substance Abuse Counselor.
Rev. Dr. Cummings provides support forthose she works with in an inclusive,
(00:57):
non judgmental, compassionate, relationalapproach to the healing process.
Welcome, Dr. Cummings.
How are you?
Monica (01:04):
I'm great, Mike.
How are you?
Thanks for having me.
Mike (01:08):
Well, I'm so glad you could join us.
I'm good.
I'm good.
I wanted to start first.
I always like to start with thisabout your work and passions,
but you're in recovery, right?
Long term recovery.
Monica (01:18):
I am.
I took my last drink ofalcohol on January 7th, 1990.
Over in California, wecall it our birthday there.
And so I celebrate my AAbirthday, January 8th, every year.
Mike (01:33):
Well, happy birthday.
Monica (01:34):
And so since January 8th, 1990.
Mike (01:38):
Wow.
And that was in California.
Monica (01:41):
I did.
I got sober in California.
Mike (01:43):
And so then you decided what the heck, why as well, which Wisconsin,
the epicenter of alcohol usage, right?
Monica (01:49):
Well, you know, and I did that after I moved here in '08.
So I had many years of sobriety andthat included being in the peace corps.
Mike (01:58):
Yeah.
Monica (01:58):
In South Africa, which is a country that does
enjoy its beer, homemade beer.
And that was hard being in recovery,being there and at that point, I was
still regularly attending AA meetingsand it was hard for me to get to
meetings while I was in country.
But, yeah, it's been 1 day at a time.
So for people who are like thepeople I work with who are struggling
(02:22):
with their challenges of staying inrecovery or getting into recovery.
It's one day at a time, and stillall these years later I still
remember it's just one day at a time.
And knowing that what I didyesterday influences what my life
is going to be like the next day.
Mike (02:43):
Every now and then we read about people who've had a long,
long stretch of recovery and forwhatever reason, they go back.
And I always admire folks who say, whoops!
And then say, I'm day one.
Monica (02:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And as we talked about the opioid.
I know at least one personwho was in long term recovery.
I'm talking 20 years who hadsurgery, got put on an opioid and
that switch was clicked back on andunfortunately they lost 20 years.
Mike (03:18):
Yeah, it's such a devastating disease.
I want to ask you about one ofyour passions and what you do now.
How did you discover yoga?
And your bio says, forgive me, youpractice, I'm going to read this.
iRest Yoga Nidra meditation.
Okay, first of all, explain what that is.
(03:40):
And then how did you get into it?
Monica (03:42):
So iRest Yoga Nidra, and I stands for integrative,
so it's integrative restoration.
And so that's the new part.
Dr. Richard Miller named it that.
And then the Yoga Nidra is thousandsof years old, like the Yoga Nidra
is a part of the practice of yoga.
People think yoga is just a physical,you know, you walk into a yoga studio
(04:07):
and you do the physical aspect of yoga.
But yoga is so much more than justthe physical movement of the poses.
Meditation is a vital component of yoga.
And so iRest Yoga Nidra Um, . Miller,who's also a trained psychologist, a
yogi, experienced yoga Yoga Nidra with hisWestern thinking, and especially Western
(04:36):
clinical thinking thought, how can I makethis accessible for Western audience?
And so he used his psychologyand integrated Western with
the Eastern practice and cameup with iRest Yoga Nidra.
And he knew it would behelpful for people with PTSD.
So he piloted at Walter Reed MedicalCenter to augment talk therapy
(05:03):
and medication therapy for servicepersonnel returning from combat.
And since then, it's grownto include being proven to be
helpful for people in recovery.
Mike (05:17):
Well, and for those of you who listen regularly, you know, that we're
going to put links to Dr. Miller'sresearch on the blurb of the podcast.
But that deeper relaxation.
Well, first of all, you were a collegebasketball player, so you had to
already be into your body and breathingand relaxing as part of that, right?
So you, you probably tookto it like a duck to water.
Monica (05:39):
I did.
And the reason I love practicing iRestmyself and teaching it to the people
I work with in the CCS program herein Kenosha County is the 10 components
involved in iRest the solution.
Heartfelt desire, which encourages people.
(06:00):
What is it that getsyou up in the morning?
What is it that drives andmotivates you in the world?
So that's your heartfelt desire.
Intention.
You know, set your intention for today.
How do you want your day to go?
How do you want your life to go?
And then the inner resource.
And people used to call theinner resource your safe place.
(06:21):
And the inner resource canbe a person, place, thing.
A special object or symbol where theperson can go and get grounded and get
centered and reset emotionally immensely.
So, if they're experiencing somethingtragic, or they've been triggered.
Or they're stressed out, aperson can go into their inner
(06:43):
resource and regroup, so to speak.
The heartfelt desire and the intention,the heartfelt desire is like a
locational app and the intentionis like coordinates to get there.
And it just helps people tohave a direction and purpose.
So that's why I love practicing iRest.
(07:05):
I love teaching iRest.
And then there's breath sensing and bodysensing and iRest also opposite feelings.
I worked with someone and it waslike revelation that she could
feel two things at one time.
You can feel happy and also be sad.
With the state of the worldright now, people are like, such
(07:26):
a downer, how can I be happy?
Well, you can, you can be happy andhold the happy feeling and at the
same time still be sad for the world.
And it's not mutually exclusive.
And so, for people to know thatthey can hold both things at the
same time and experience oppositefeelings at the same time.
(07:47):
It's just been a revelation for folks.
Mike (07:50):
Yeah.
You mentioned PTSD and when we're talkingabout recovery, that sense of stress
and anxiety, and you're right, we seeso many people experiencing it today.
That has to be a resource and a toolin your tool belt that can help.
How long does it take tofeel proficient in it?
Monica (08:07):
Practicing iRest?
Oh, it's the journey, each time I practiceI experience something new or something
new comes to me, but it's just in thepractice, just have these great ideas,
in the course of a day and I know it'sbecause iRest helps to put my mind at
ease enough where I'm able to thinkthrough things and process things at
(08:32):
a level that I wasn't able to do thatbefore practicing iRest to help my
mind just be in a state of reception.
If that makes sense.
Mike (08:45):
Yeah, it does.
And we see people struggling a lot.
You and I both work in thecommunity a great deal.
What are you hearing about people'sstruggles with their mental health?
Monica (08:54):
Well, right now it's not so much the folks I'm working with, it's providers
who are concerned about what may happenwith Medicaid and Medicare and whatever
happens with especially Medicaid will thenimpact BadgerCare and I'm a comprehensive
community services provider and theprogram does have a number of folks who
(09:20):
are on BadgerCare as well as other typesof insurance that could be impacted if
they make cuts to Medicaid or Medicare.
So I'm hearing from providers thatfolks I'm working with in terms of
what may happen in the next month ornext 6 months in terms of funding.
Mike (09:41):
Yeah, for those of you listening, BadgerCare is Wisconsin's state
generated program to help, and moststates have a program like that.
Monica, I did a conference last week,and there were tons of providers there,
and you could have cut the anxiety.
It was palpable.
They're wondering like,well, what do we do?
(10:03):
And for me, it's what do we do?
But it's like, well, what do thepeople do who are serviced by programs
that are reliant on these programs?
Like, we don't know yet howit's going to shake out.
Monica (10:18):
But I'm having flashbacks of Reagan's cuts when public
institutions to help people withmental health was shut down.
And then that's unhoused populationexploded because folks didn't have
anywhere to and private inpatient wasn'tat the point where they could absorb when
you know, state institutions shut down.
(10:40):
So that's my concern and the folksthat I work with are on the margins
already and are vulnerable, whichis why they're in the program.
They're vulnerable and support.
They need to wrap around support, notjust with their mental health, but just
things to help them through daily living.
One of the other things I do is Iteach yoga, trauma informed yoga.
(11:04):
And I am a vet. And so I justcompleted my Warriors at Ease
Level 2 training last October.
And my trauma informed yoga it'sdifferent from regular yoga.
Like I said people in the West thinkyoga is about the physical act, but
trauma informed yoga really focuses onhow opposed feels in the body and in
(11:30):
how important breath work is in termsof helping to help people self regulate.
If they are triggered or youencounter a situation that's
stressful or produces anxiety.
Mike (11:46):
And that's not only the sort of thing you can practice every day, but
it improves over time, but you have tohave vigilance when it comes to that.
You literally have to practice that.
Monica (11:56):
Yes, and so with the folks I work with, we start every
session out with belly breathing.
And that's simply imagining you havea balloon in your stomach and as
you inhale, blow your balloon up andall this breathing is through your
nose and just imagine each time youinhale your balloon expands, your
stomach expands each time you exhale.
(12:18):
The balloon relaxes, inhale,blow your balloon up, exhale,
let your balloon relax.
And start every session withbelly breathing, breathing helps
to soothe the central nervoussystem, which then helps the rest
of the body to relax and regulate.
Mike (12:35):
Yeah, I work with young people, Dr. Monica, and I think you'll relate to this.
I call this the free throw.
Right before you shoot a freethrow, how do you breathe so that
you're as relaxed as you can?
And it's much the same way.
And it sells them.
So it's not something that'slike, oh, I'm not doing that.
It's like, oh, okay, if LeBron does it,then I guess I can do it too, right?
Monica (12:56):
And LeBron does practice yoga.
Mike (12:58):
Yes, he does.
Among everything.
If we were all as healthy as him,I don't think we'd have to worry.
We still have a stigma around this, right?
And we both work with people who areaffected by the stigma of substance
use as well as mental illness.
How do we break that stigma and havethis treated like other diseases?
Monica (13:21):
Talk about it.
I am an ordained minister and eachcongregation I've ever served.
I've made it clear to the peopleI served during the interviewing
process that I'm in recovery and Iwill speak about it from the pulpit.
I've done sermons on the 12 steps of AA.
I've talked about my recovery journey andwithout fail, there would be someone in
(13:47):
the congregation who would come up to mewanting to have a private conversation
and about their struggle or a relative'sstruggle and how it's impacting them.
So I think talking about ithelps the stigma and that's
why I do it, I speak to it.
So if there's anyone there, theyknow one, they're not alone.
(14:09):
They know they have an ally in me.
If they choose to approachme and to talk about it.
And that's happened.
And I don't think if I did speakto it from the pulpit, that that
person would've felt comfortableenough to approach me and say, Hey,
can I have a private conversation,because I've got this going on.
Mike (14:29):
Especially in today's day and times, we still see very public figures
trying to shame people who have mentalillness or substance use disorders.
And we have to overcome that.
Monica (14:44):
And we do.
And it, and that comes fromthe old pull yourself up by the
bootstraps and the stigma thatpeople just use your willpower.
You know, you're weak if youcan't control that aspect of
your life, they label it as weak.
That puritan mentality, justto drop on and suck it up and
(15:04):
that's just old school thinking.
That's not understanding thehuman body and the human brain and
knowing and these same people willthen go and have three whiskeys.
Mike (15:16):
Yeah.
Right.
Monica (15:17):
Or will drink a bunch of glasses of wine at dinner and get their buzz
on, but then criticize someone else whothen talks publicly about, well, three
glasses of wine will then send me ona run to want to do other things, or
I can't stop at three glasses of wine.
(15:38):
And so there's just some people whowill not acknowledge that it is a mental
health issue and a medical issue justlike with diabetes is the example, do
you change a diabetic and some peopledo well if they will just change
their diet and exercise, look at them,and that's not helpful, as opposed
(15:59):
to saying it's a medical situation.
What can we do to support thisperson and improving their
mental and physical health?
Mike (16:06):
I think it's amazing too, because I don't know too many people
who aren't affected somewhere intheir family with either substance
use or mental illness of some sort.
I rarely run into somebody thatcan't personally relate to all the
things we've been talking about.
Monica (16:25):
And unfortunately in our culture there's just some folks who
think the old, I just keep goingback to the old, pull yourself up
by the bootstraps and suck it up.
We all have problems and it'snot the problem Olympics.
There are people all you grew up poor.
I grew up this and thatand look at me now.
I'm the CEO, that's not the point pairingyour pain with someone else's pain.
(16:49):
We all have different tolerances.
We all have different mental andphysical makeups that makes some people
possibly more resilient than others.
And then you throw in genderand socioeconomic class and
ethnicity and then the stressorsare just layered and compounded.
(17:10):
And then you look at generationally,how far back in a family tree
or lineage, it has peoplestruggled with with mental health.
Mike (17:21):
Oh my goodness, if you did a genogram on my family, it would just
bleed substance use disorders allthe way down, you could just see it.
And I'm not alone.
And when I tell the story, Monica, thatwhen my dad passed away, my uncle went
to the funeral home with me to be a help.
And he was a help.
Cause I'd never planned a funeral before.
And when the guy said, what did he die of?
(17:43):
My uncle squeezed my arm really tight.
And that was a message to me.
It looks sympathetic if you wereon the other side of the desk, but
that's a message to me, I got this.
And he just said to the funeral director,Oh, heart disease, it runs in our family.
Because he was afraid that I wouldsay he died of his own drinking.
He died on a bar stool.
(18:04):
And so we hide it.
And hiding it doesn't doanything for the stigma at all.
Monica (18:11):
And that's why in AA we say we're only sick is our secret.
Mike (18:15):
Yeah.
Monica (18:15):
I was, in my bio I mentioned being an army officer.
I was kicked out of the army as a secondlieutenant because I flunked a drug test.
That was my biggest shame.
That was my shame.
I had never failed at anything.
And then I was relieved of my commissionand shown the door as a second lieutenant
(18:36):
in the army because I failed a drug test.
And I carried that shame with me,didn't identify as a vet for [inaudible]
Until I was working at a localuniversity and I was honest, filling
out paperwork to be hired someplace.
I had to put that I did servein the army, that I did not
receive an honorable discharge.
(18:57):
I received a less thanhonorable discharge.
And one veteran's day, they were like,Hey, would you be the keynote speaker?
And had the process.
And I did do the keynote and washonest about my experience and vets
are like, we claim you, I'm a UnitarianUniversalist minister and we have
(19:17):
a military ministry, it's hard forme to then attend those meetings.
And it was there where Ireally got the process.
My internalized shame aroundhaving been kicked out.
And of course, they claimed me as a vet,the attitude was, you wore the uniform,
you were willing to put your body andyour life on the line, you're one of us.
(19:40):
But, you talk about shame and that wasthe biggest shame I had being kicked
out and I lied to my family about it.
I wasn't honest with themabout what went down.
And of course I have since comeclean in fact, it's in the book.
(20:01):
Got it on my bookshelf.
No... Restored To Sanity.
And I have a chapter making the list.
And of course, that's a step, the eighthstep where you make a list of those you've
harmed and I talk about making that listand of course me being at the top of the
list, having to make amends to myself forsome of the choices I made, consequences
(20:26):
from those choices from my life.
So yeah, shame is huge and shame willcause folks to do whatever they need
to do, not to, not to feel it andcertainly not to let anyone else know
what the core root of the shame is.
Mike (20:42):
You mentioned earlier about feeling two feelings at the same time, and you
can feel that sense of shame, and thenyou go to a support group meeting,
whether it's a vet meeting or a 12step meeting, and you're feeling the
shame, but you also feel the acceptance.
So you can feel that too, and that's agreat way to overcome the shame is to
realize people just accept you for whoyou are and the journey that you took.
Monica (21:08):
Well, and the shame is self imposed.
Mike (21:10):
Yeah,
Monica (21:10):
right, right.
It's what we do to ourselves, likeguilt, external, where people are
dumping their crap on [inaudible].
But the shame is what weswallow and internalize and
it's what we do to ourselves.
That's not to say that otherpeople don't have a part to play
in that and trying to shame us.
But like some other things thatwe internalize and then for some
(21:35):
of us, we begin to believe it.
And then that's how folks involvedin substance use and abuse and
what they can to try to shut offthose feelings, especially if they
they're feeling negatively towardthemselves, how did they [inaudible]?
How did they turn it off?
You know, they pick up.
Mike (21:57):
And I don't know how to put this in a way that's not going to sound
callous and I don't mean it that way.
But, Peace Corps minister, facultymember, yoga, meditation instructor.
We may be in this spot again.
There's a lot of things an individualcan do that are not program reliant.
So if the worst happens and programsaren't accessible to those people
(22:18):
that really need them, we willneed to find resources because
the struggle is still there.
Monica (22:25):
It is.
And I also teach at the YMCAand the YMCA here in Kenosha
has a relationship with NAMI.
Folks who are members of NAMI or attenda program at NAMI, I believe are eligible
to then use the YMCA, which I do teacha mat yoga class at the Y once a week.
(22:50):
And so you're absolutely right.
And that's one of the reasonswhy I became a yoga teacher.
I started practicing yogaback in like 1990, like '94,
'95 and practiced on my own.
I took a 16 week class at a communitycollege in Southern California, got
(23:13):
my routine together, had my book andI practiced at my home until at the
university I worked at, a coworkersent me an email that said, this is
why black people don't practice yoga.
And I read the article and I thought.
We're missing out on wellness,African American communities missing
(23:33):
out on wellness because of thatfeeling of not not feeling welcome
or accepted in a yoga studio.
And I expanded that and it'snot just a person of African
descent, low income folks.
When you think of a yoga teacher orsomeone that practices yoga, what's
the first image that comes to mind?
(23:54):
Is a certain body type.
Right.
A certain style of dress, andI started thinking about it.
And so my goal when I becamea yoga teacher was to bring
yoga to people in the margins.
I wanted to bring yoga to people whowould not feel comfortable for whatever
reason walking into a yoga studio.
(24:15):
And I am so grateful I've been able to dothat teaching at the Kenosha Y, as well
as being a [inaudible] provider whereeven though I am a SAC, a Substance Abuse
Counselor, that's not role in the program.
My role in the program is teaching peopleyoga and meditation to help them to learn
(24:41):
to self regulate to help them to work withwhatever it is they wanted to work with.
Mike (24:47):
That's awesome.
Monica (24:48):
And I am just beyond ungrateful and most folks I'm working with
have either have never taken yogabefore or couldn't afford to go
to a yoga studio to practice yoga.
And so I'm just really grateful forthe opportunity to work with folks
who otherwise would not for whateverreason be able to access yoga,
(25:12):
especially a one on one session.
Mike (25:16):
I think you addressed this a little bit before, but I want
you to expand on it just a littlebit, and I'll let you go with this.
We live in a different time right now,and how do we encourage communication
at a community level and bridging thedifferences that are just so evident.
There's no gray anymore it seems like,it's either this way or that way.
So how do we spread hope in atime of division where my choices
(25:40):
are derided rather than accepted?
Monica (25:44):
That's a good question, because at the Y, you'll see people with different
political statements on their t shirts.
Mike (25:52):
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Monica (25:54):
And,
[sigh] it's hard.
It's back to breathing.
You know, back to
um, [long pause]
I've got a bunch of different answersfor people who are just acting out, I
(26:19):
just go back to my early AA teaching.
Well, you just imagine a personwith a bandage on their head.
If you have a broken arm,people readily see that, right?
They see the cast.
If you're limping, people cansee, Oh, something's going on with
their leg or foot or whatever.
But if we're struggling with our mentalhealth or relapse, that's not really
(26:41):
available unless we physically look,that we've been through the ringer.
And I just counsel people, if you havesomeone who's being aggressive towards
you, who's behaving not according tosocial norms of behavior, to know that
there's something going on with themand just imagine they have a big white
(27:03):
bandage wrapped around their head.
They've got some type of thinggoing on that we can't see.
In terms of the political environmentwe're in, where we're so polarized...
I have friends who have a differentpolitical affiliation than I have.
I teach folks who I know have adifferent political affiliation.
(27:27):
It suggests is to look beyond that.
That's such a small piece of who they are.
Try to get to know them beyond that.
So with my neighbors, it's pointlessto talk about politics, right?
We're not going to agree.
What we can talk about is we're both vets.
We both grew up in Philadelphiaor we both like camping or what
(27:52):
is it that we have in common?
We like to travel.
And Dr. Miller says we havea negativity bias and people
gravitate toward the negativity.
If it bleeds, it leads in thenews, you know that right?
And so, try to not lock and load on thenegativity, but to maybe explore where
(28:16):
there may be some joy or there may berainbows and puppies and kittens to talk
about, as opposed to talking about whatyou know, you clearly don't [inaudible].
And I think most people wantto have those conversations.
Again, the people I teach yogato who I wear t shirts that are
not my political choice, right.
(28:38):
But they're my students and I connect withthem on something other than politics.
And I know that for mostpeople who may listen to this.
Well, you don't know my uncle Marty.
Or whatever [inaudible] listenand it is easier said than done.
But it's about relationship and whatkind of relationships do we want to have?
(29:00):
We also have a choicenot to engage, right?
Mike (29:03):
Right.
Monica (29:03):
When people first get sober, what do you have to change?
Everything.
People [inaudible] things,and so there's a choice.
New and recovery.
Do you want to hang out at the bar?
You know, we used to say you keepgoing to the barbershop eventually,
you're going to get a cut, right?
You're going to get a haircut.
You hang out in a bakery, the donutsare going to start talking to you.
(29:24):
And so people, places and things,we have a choice, for the most
part, kids do not have a choice.
I know that.
I'm aware of that.
But it comes down to, what dowe want to do to protect our
mental and physical health?
And then hopefully get alliesin our life to help us do that.
Mike (29:42):
That's great.
Now that you have me thinking,I might change the name of this
little podcast to, or your episodeto rainbows, puppies, and kittens.
I think it would be appropriate.
Dr. Monica, thank you so much.
You know, that there's links tothe Reverend's work attached to
podcasts, including links to Dr.Miller's iRest Yoga Nidra meditation.
(30:02):
Thanks for your lifetime of workDr. Monica, and for your hope
as well as your inspiration.
Can't tell you how much we appreciate it.
For all of you listeningin, please listen next time.
Until then, stay safe, find yourpeace, and if you can, go pet a puppy.
Welcome everybody.
This is Avoiding the Addiction Afflictionbrought to you by Westwords Consulting
and the Kenosha County Substance UseDisorder Coalition, I'm Mike McGowan.
You know, sometimes I run acrosspeople who have such a wide variety
of interests and expertise thatthe conversation involves much
more than just a topic or two.
And today is one of those days.
(00:34):
Reverend Dr. Monica Cummings hasdedicated her life to being of service
to others, drawing on her experienceas a college basketball player, army
officer, Peace Corps Volunteer, Parishand Community Minister, University
Faculty Member, Yoga, MeditationInstructor, and Substance Abuse Counselor.
Rev. Dr. Cummings provides support forthose she works with in an inclusive,
(00:57):
non judgmental, compassionate, relationalapproach to the healing process.
Welcome, Dr. Cummings.
How are you?
Monica (01:04):
I'm great, Mike.
How are you?
Thanks for having me.
Mike (01:08):
Well, I'm so glad you could join us.
I'm good.
I'm good.
I wanted to start first.
I always like to start with thisabout your work and passions,
but you're in recovery, right?
Long term recovery.
Monica (01:18):
I am.
I took my last drink ofalcohol on January 7th, 1990.
Over in California, wecall it our birthday there.
And so I celebrate my AAbirthday, January 8th, every year.
Mike (01:33):
Well, happy birthday.
Monica (01:34):
And so since January 8th, 1990.
Mike (01:38):
Wow.
And that was in California.
Monica (01:41):
I did.
I got sober in California.
Mike (01:43):
And so then you decided what the heck, why as well, which Wisconsin,
the epicenter of alcohol usage, right?
Monica (01:49):
Well, you know, and I did that after I moved here in '08.
So I had many years of sobriety andthat included being in the peace corps.
Mike (01:58):
Yeah.
Monica (01:58):
In South Africa, which is a country that does
enjoy its beer, homemade beer.
And that was hard being in recovery,being there and at that point, I was
still regularly attending AA meetingsand it was hard for me to get to
meetings while I was in country.
But, yeah, it's been 1 day at a time.
So for people who are like thepeople I work with who are struggling
(02:22):
with their challenges of staying inrecovery or getting into recovery.
It's one day at a time, and stillall these years later I still
remember it's just one day at a time.
And knowing that what I didyesterday influences what my life
is going to be like the next day.
Mike (02:43):
Every now and then we read about people who've had a long,
long stretch of recovery and forwhatever reason, they go back.
And I always admire folks who say, whoops!
And then say, I'm day one.
Monica (02:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And as we talked about the opioid.
I know at least one personwho was in long term recovery.
I'm talking 20 years who hadsurgery, got put on an opioid and
that switch was clicked back on andunfortunately they lost 20 years.
Mike (03:18):
Yeah, it's such a devastating disease.
I want to ask you about one ofyour passions and what you do now.
How did you discover yoga?
And your bio says, forgive me, youpractice, I'm going to read this.
iRest Yoga Nidra meditation.
Okay, first of all, explain what that is.
(03:40):
And then how did you get into it?
Monica (03:42):
So iRest Yoga Nidra, and I stands for integrative,
so it's integrative restoration.
And so that's the new part.
Dr. Richard Miller named it that.
And then the Yoga Nidra is thousandsof years old, like the Yoga Nidra
is a part of the practice of yoga.
People think yoga is just a physical,you know, you walk into a yoga studio
(04:07):
and you do the physical aspect of yoga.
But yoga is so much more than justthe physical movement of the poses.
Meditation is a vital component of yoga.
And so iRest Yoga Nidra Um, . Miller,who's also a trained psychologist, a
yogi, experienced yoga Yoga Nidra with hisWestern thinking, and especially Western
(04:36):
clinical thinking thought, how can I makethis accessible for Western audience?
And so he used his psychologyand integrated Western with
the Eastern practice and cameup with iRest Yoga Nidra.
And he knew it would behelpful for people with PTSD.
So he piloted at Walter Reed MedicalCenter to augment talk therapy
(05:03):
and medication therapy for servicepersonnel returning from combat.
And since then, it's grownto include being proven to be
helpful for people in recovery.
Mike (05:17):
Well, and for those of you who listen regularly, you know, that we're
going to put links to Dr. Miller'sresearch on the blurb of the podcast.
But that deeper relaxation.
Well, first of all, you were a collegebasketball player, so you had to
already be into your body and breathingand relaxing as part of that, right?
So you, you probably tookto it like a duck to water.
Monica (05:39):
I did.
And the reason I love practicing iRestmyself and teaching it to the people
I work with in the CCS program herein Kenosha County is the 10 components
involved in iRest the solution.
Heartfelt desire, which encourages people.
(06:00):
What is it that getsyou up in the morning?
What is it that drives andmotivates you in the world?
So that's your heartfelt desire.
Intention.
You know, set your intention for today.
How do you want your day to go?
How do you want your life to go?
And then the inner resource.
And people used to call theinner resource your safe place.
(06:21):
And the inner resource canbe a person, place, thing.
A special object or symbol where theperson can go and get grounded and get
centered and reset emotionally immensely.
So, if they're experiencing somethingtragic, or they've been triggered.
Or they're stressed out, aperson can go into their inner
(06:43):
resource and regroup, so to speak.
The heartfelt desire and the intention,the heartfelt desire is like a
locational app and the intentionis like coordinates to get there.
And it just helps people tohave a direction and purpose.
So that's why I love practicing iRest.
(07:05):
I love teaching iRest.
And then there's breath sensing and bodysensing and iRest also opposite feelings.
I worked with someone and it waslike revelation that she could
feel two things at one time.
You can feel happy and also be sad.
With the state of the worldright now, people are like, such
(07:26):
a downer, how can I be happy?
Well, you can, you can be happy andhold the happy feeling and at the
same time still be sad for the world.
And it's not mutually exclusive.
And so, for people to know thatthey can hold both things at the
same time and experience oppositefeelings at the same time.
(07:47):
It's just been a revelation for folks.
Mike (07:50):
Yeah.
You mentioned PTSD and when we're talkingabout recovery, that sense of stress
and anxiety, and you're right, we seeso many people experiencing it today.
That has to be a resource and a toolin your tool belt that can help.
How long does it take tofeel proficient in it?
Monica (08:07):
Practicing iRest?
Oh, it's the journey, each time I practiceI experience something new or something
new comes to me, but it's just in thepractice, just have these great ideas,
in the course of a day and I know it'sbecause iRest helps to put my mind at
ease enough where I'm able to thinkthrough things and process things at
(08:32):
a level that I wasn't able to do thatbefore practicing iRest to help my
mind just be in a state of reception.
If that makes sense.
Mike (08:45):
Yeah, it does.
And we see people struggling a lot.
You and I both work in thecommunity a great deal.
What are you hearing about people'sstruggles with their mental health?
Monica (08:54):
Well, right now it's not so much the folks I'm working with, it's providers
who are concerned about what may happenwith Medicaid and Medicare and whatever
happens with especially Medicaid will thenimpact BadgerCare and I'm a comprehensive
community services provider and theprogram does have a number of folks who
(09:20):
are on BadgerCare as well as other typesof insurance that could be impacted if
they make cuts to Medicaid or Medicare.
So I'm hearing from providers thatfolks I'm working with in terms of
what may happen in the next month ornext 6 months in terms of funding.
Mike (09:41):
Yeah, for those of you listening, BadgerCare is Wisconsin's state
generated program to help, and moststates have a program like that.
Monica, I did a conference last week,and there were tons of providers there,
and you could have cut the anxiety.
It was palpable.
They're wondering like,well, what do we do?
(10:03):
And for me, it's what do we do?
But it's like, well, what do thepeople do who are serviced by programs
that are reliant on these programs?
Like, we don't know yet howit's going to shake out.
Monica (10:18):
But I'm having flashbacks of Reagan's cuts when public
institutions to help people withmental health was shut down.
And then that's unhoused populationexploded because folks didn't have
anywhere to and private inpatient wasn'tat the point where they could absorb when
you know, state institutions shut down.
(10:40):
So that's my concern and the folksthat I work with are on the margins
already and are vulnerable, whichis why they're in the program.
They're vulnerable and support.
They need to wrap around support, notjust with their mental health, but just
things to help them through daily living.
One of the other things I do is Iteach yoga, trauma informed yoga.
(11:04):
And I am a vet. And so I justcompleted my Warriors at Ease
Level 2 training last October.
And my trauma informed yoga it'sdifferent from regular yoga.
Like I said people in the West thinkyoga is about the physical act, but
trauma informed yoga really focuses onhow opposed feels in the body and in
(11:30):
how important breath work is in termsof helping to help people self regulate.
If they are triggered or youencounter a situation that's
stressful or produces anxiety.
Mike (11:46):
And that's not only the sort of thing you can practice every day, but
it improves over time, but you have tohave vigilance when it comes to that.
You literally have to practice that.
Monica (11:56):
Yes, and so with the folks I work with, we start every
session out with belly breathing.
And that's simply imagining you havea balloon in your stomach and as
you inhale, blow your balloon up andall this breathing is through your
nose and just imagine each time youinhale your balloon expands, your
stomach expands each time you exhale.
(12:18):
The balloon relaxes, inhale,blow your balloon up, exhale,
let your balloon relax.
And start every session withbelly breathing, breathing helps
to soothe the central nervoussystem, which then helps the rest
of the body to relax and regulate.
Mike (12:35):
Yeah, I work with young people, Dr. Monica, and I think you'll relate to this.
I call this the free throw.
Right before you shoot a freethrow, how do you breathe so that
you're as relaxed as you can?
And it's much the same way.
And it sells them.
So it's not something that'slike, oh, I'm not doing that.
It's like, oh, okay, if LeBron does it,then I guess I can do it too, right?
Monica (12:56):
And LeBron does practice yoga.
Mike (12:58):
Yes, he does.
Among everything.
If we were all as healthy as him,I don't think we'd have to worry.
We still have a stigma around this, right?
And we both work with people who areaffected by the stigma of substance
use as well as mental illness.
How do we break that stigma and havethis treated like other diseases?
Monica (13:21):
Talk about it.
I am an ordained minister and eachcongregation I've ever served.
I've made it clear to the peopleI served during the interviewing
process that I'm in recovery and Iwill speak about it from the pulpit.
I've done sermons on the 12 steps of AA.
I've talked about my recovery journey andwithout fail, there would be someone in
(13:47):
the congregation who would come up to mewanting to have a private conversation
and about their struggle or a relative'sstruggle and how it's impacting them.
So I think talking about ithelps the stigma and that's
why I do it, I speak to it.
So if there's anyone there, theyknow one, they're not alone.
(14:09):
They know they have an ally in me.
If they choose to approachme and to talk about it.
And that's happened.
And I don't think if I did speakto it from the pulpit, that that
person would've felt comfortableenough to approach me and say, Hey,
can I have a private conversation,because I've got this going on.
Mike (14:29):
Especially in today's day and times, we still see very public figures
trying to shame people who have mentalillness or substance use disorders.
And we have to overcome that.
Monica (14:44):
And we do.
And it, and that comes fromthe old pull yourself up by the
bootstraps and the stigma thatpeople just use your willpower.
You know, you're weak if youcan't control that aspect of
your life, they label it as weak.
That puritan mentality, justto drop on and suck it up and
(15:04):
that's just old school thinking.
That's not understanding thehuman body and the human brain and
knowing and these same people willthen go and have three whiskeys.
Mike (15:16):
Yeah.
Right.
Monica (15:17):
Or will drink a bunch of glasses of wine at dinner and get their buzz
on, but then criticize someone else whothen talks publicly about, well, three
glasses of wine will then send me ona run to want to do other things, or
I can't stop at three glasses of wine.
(15:38):
And so there's just some people whowill not acknowledge that it is a mental
health issue and a medical issue justlike with diabetes is the example, do
you change a diabetic and some peopledo well if they will just change
their diet and exercise, look at them,and that's not helpful, as opposed
(15:59):
to saying it's a medical situation.
What can we do to support thisperson and improving their
mental and physical health?
Mike (16:06):
I think it's amazing too, because I don't know too many people
who aren't affected somewhere intheir family with either substance
use or mental illness of some sort.
I rarely run into somebody thatcan't personally relate to all the
things we've been talking about.
Monica (16:25):
And unfortunately in our culture there's just some folks who
think the old, I just keep goingback to the old, pull yourself up
by the bootstraps and suck it up.
We all have problems and it'snot the problem Olympics.
There are people all you grew up poor.
I grew up this and thatand look at me now.
I'm the CEO, that's not the point pairingyour pain with someone else's pain.
(16:49):
We all have different tolerances.
We all have different mental andphysical makeups that makes some people
possibly more resilient than others.
And then you throw in genderand socioeconomic class and
ethnicity and then the stressorsare just layered and compounded.
(17:10):
And then you look at generationally,how far back in a family tree
or lineage, it has peoplestruggled with with mental health.
Mike (17:21):
Oh my goodness, if you did a genogram on my family, it would just
bleed substance use disorders allthe way down, you could just see it.
And I'm not alone.
And when I tell the story, Monica, thatwhen my dad passed away, my uncle went
to the funeral home with me to be a help.
And he was a help.
Cause I'd never planned a funeral before.
And when the guy said, what did he die of?
(17:43):
My uncle squeezed my arm really tight.
And that was a message to me.
It looks sympathetic if you wereon the other side of the desk, but
that's a message to me, I got this.
And he just said to the funeral director,Oh, heart disease, it runs in our family.
Because he was afraid that I wouldsay he died of his own drinking.
He died on a bar stool.
(18:04):
And so we hide it.
And hiding it doesn't doanything for the stigma at all.
Monica (18:11):
And that's why in AA we say we're only sick is our secret.
Mike (18:15):
Yeah.
Monica (18:15):
I was, in my bio I mentioned being an army officer.
I was kicked out of the army as a secondlieutenant because I flunked a drug test.
That was my biggest shame.
That was my shame.
I had never failed at anything.
And then I was relieved of my commissionand shown the door as a second lieutenant
(18:36):
in the army because I failed a drug test.
And I carried that shame with me,didn't identify as a vet for [inaudible]
Until I was working at a localuniversity and I was honest, filling
out paperwork to be hired someplace.
I had to put that I did servein the army, that I did not
receive an honorable discharge.
(18:57):
I received a less thanhonorable discharge.
And one veteran's day, they were like,Hey, would you be the keynote speaker?
And had the process.
And I did do the keynote and washonest about my experience and vets
are like, we claim you, I'm a UnitarianUniversalist minister and we have
(19:17):
a military ministry, it's hard forme to then attend those meetings.
And it was there where Ireally got the process.
My internalized shame aroundhaving been kicked out.
And of course, they claimed me as a vet,the attitude was, you wore the uniform,
you were willing to put your body andyour life on the line, you're one of us.
(19:40):
But, you talk about shame and that wasthe biggest shame I had being kicked
out and I lied to my family about it.
I wasn't honest with themabout what went down.
And of course I have since comeclean in fact, it's in the book.
(20:01):
Got it on my bookshelf.
No... Restored To Sanity.
And I have a chapter making the list.
And of course, that's a step, the eighthstep where you make a list of those you've
harmed and I talk about making that listand of course me being at the top of the
list, having to make amends to myself forsome of the choices I made, consequences
(20:26):
from those choices from my life.
So yeah, shame is huge and shame willcause folks to do whatever they need
to do, not to, not to feel it andcertainly not to let anyone else know
what the core root of the shame is.
Mike (20:42):
You mentioned earlier about feeling two feelings at the same time, and you
can feel that sense of shame, and thenyou go to a support group meeting,
whether it's a vet meeting or a 12step meeting, and you're feeling the
shame, but you also feel the acceptance.
So you can feel that too, and that's agreat way to overcome the shame is to
realize people just accept you for whoyou are and the journey that you took.
Monica (21:08):
Well, and the shame is self imposed.
Mike (21:10):
Yeah,
Monica (21:10):
right, right.
It's what we do to ourselves, likeguilt, external, where people are
dumping their crap on [inaudible].
But the shame is what weswallow and internalize and
it's what we do to ourselves.
That's not to say that otherpeople don't have a part to play
in that and trying to shame us.
But like some other things thatwe internalize and then for some
(21:35):
of us, we begin to believe it.
And then that's how folks involvedin substance use and abuse and
what they can to try to shut offthose feelings, especially if they
they're feeling negatively towardthemselves, how did they [inaudible]?
How did they turn it off?
You know, they pick up.
Mike (21:57):
And I don't know how to put this in a way that's not going to sound
callous and I don't mean it that way.
But, Peace Corps minister, facultymember, yoga, meditation instructor.
We may be in this spot again.
There's a lot of things an individualcan do that are not program reliant.
So if the worst happens and programsaren't accessible to those people
(22:18):
that really need them, we willneed to find resources because
the struggle is still there.
Monica (22:25):
It is.
And I also teach at the YMCAand the YMCA here in Kenosha
has a relationship with NAMI.
Folks who are members of NAMI or attenda program at NAMI, I believe are eligible
to then use the YMCA, which I do teacha mat yoga class at the Y once a week.
(22:50):
And so you're absolutely right.
And that's one of the reasonswhy I became a yoga teacher.
I started practicing yogaback in like 1990, like '94,
'95 and practiced on my own.
I took a 16 week class at a communitycollege in Southern California, got
(23:13):
my routine together, had my book andI practiced at my home until at the
university I worked at, a coworkersent me an email that said, this is
why black people don't practice yoga.
And I read the article and I thought.
We're missing out on wellness,African American communities missing
(23:33):
out on wellness because of thatfeeling of not not feeling welcome
or accepted in a yoga studio.
And I expanded that and it'snot just a person of African
descent, low income folks.
When you think of a yoga teacher orsomeone that practices yoga, what's
the first image that comes to mind?
(23:54):
Is a certain body type.
Right.
A certain style of dress, andI started thinking about it.
And so my goal when I becamea yoga teacher was to bring
yoga to people in the margins.
I wanted to bring yoga to people whowould not feel comfortable for whatever
reason walking into a yoga studio.
(24:15):
And I am so grateful I've been able to dothat teaching at the Kenosha Y, as well
as being a [inaudible] provider whereeven though I am a SAC, a Substance Abuse
Counselor, that's not role in the program.
My role in the program is teaching peopleyoga and meditation to help them to learn
(24:41):
to self regulate to help them to work withwhatever it is they wanted to work with.
Mike (24:47):
That's awesome.
Monica (24:48):
And I am just beyond ungrateful and most folks I'm working with
have either have never taken yogabefore or couldn't afford to go
to a yoga studio to practice yoga.
And so I'm just really grateful forthe opportunity to work with folks
who otherwise would not for whateverreason be able to access yoga,
(25:12):
especially a one on one session.
Mike (25:16):
I think you addressed this a little bit before, but I want
you to expand on it just a littlebit, and I'll let you go with this.
We live in a different time right now,and how do we encourage communication
at a community level and bridging thedifferences that are just so evident.
There's no gray anymore it seems like,it's either this way or that way.
So how do we spread hope in atime of division where my choices
(25:40):
are derided rather than accepted?
Monica (25:44):
That's a good question, because at the Y, you'll see people with different
political statements on their t shirts.
Mike (25:52):
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Monica (25:54):
And,
[sigh] it's hard.
It's back to breathing.
You know, back to
um, [long pause]
I've got a bunch of different answersfor people who are just acting out, I
(26:19):
just go back to my early AA teaching.
Well, you just imagine a personwith a bandage on their head.
If you have a broken arm,people readily see that, right?
They see the cast.
If you're limping, people cansee, Oh, something's going on with
their leg or foot or whatever.
But if we're struggling with our mentalhealth or relapse, that's not really
(26:41):
available unless we physically look,that we've been through the ringer.
And I just counsel people, if you havesomeone who's being aggressive towards
you, who's behaving not according tosocial norms of behavior, to know that
there's something going on with themand just imagine they have a big white
(27:03):
bandage wrapped around their head.
They've got some type of thinggoing on that we can't see.
In terms of the political environmentwe're in, where we're so polarized...
I have friends who have a differentpolitical affiliation than I have.
I teach folks who I know have adifferent political affiliation.
(27:27):
It suggests is to look beyond that.
That's such a small piece of who they are.
Try to get to know them beyond that.
So with my neighbors, it's pointlessto talk about politics, right?
We're not going to agree.
What we can talk about is we're both vets.
We both grew up in Philadelphiaor we both like camping or what
(27:52):
is it that we have in common?
We like to travel.
And Dr. Miller says we havea negativity bias and people
gravitate toward the negativity.
If it bleeds, it leads in thenews, you know that right?
And so, try to not lock and load on thenegativity, but to maybe explore where
(28:16):
there may be some joy or there may berainbows and puppies and kittens to talk
about, as opposed to talking about whatyou know, you clearly don't [inaudible].
And I think most people wantto have those conversations.
Again, the people I teach yogato who I wear t shirts that are
not my political choice, right.
(28:38):
But they're my students and I connect withthem on something other than politics.
And I know that for mostpeople who may listen to this.
Well, you don't know my uncle Marty.
Or whatever [inaudible] listenand it is easier said than done.
But it's about relationship and whatkind of relationships do we want to have?
(29:00):
We also have a choicenot to engage, right?
Mike (29:03):
Right.
Monica (29:03):
When people first get sober, what do you have to change?
Everything.
People [inaudible] things,and so there's a choice.
New and recovery.
Do you want to hang out at the bar?
You know, we used to say you keepgoing to the barbershop eventually,
you're going to get a cut, right?
You're going to get a haircut.
You hang out in a bakery, the donutsare going to start talking to you.
(29:24):
And so people, places and things,we have a choice, for the most
part, kids do not have a choice.
I know that.
I'm aware of that.
But it comes down to, what dowe want to do to protect our
mental and physical health?
And then hopefully get alliesin our life to help us do that.
Mike (29:42):
That's great.
Now that you have me thinking,I might change the name of this
little podcast to, or your episodeto rainbows, puppies, and kittens.
I think it would be appropriate.
Dr. Monica, thank you so much.
You know, that there's links tothe Reverend's work attached to
podcasts, including links to Dr.Miller's iRest Yoga Nidra meditation.
(30:02):
Thanks for your lifetime of workDr. Monica, and for your hope
as well as your inspiration.
Can't tell you how much we appreciate it.
For all of you listeningin, please listen next time.
Until then, stay safe, find yourpeace, and if you can, go pet a puppy.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com