November 18, 2025 • 15 mins
Relebogile Mabotja discusses the unlocking of car repair data and why including data publishers in South Africa's Right To Repair framework is critical, with CEO of Right To Repair South Africa CEO, Kate Elliott.
702 Afternoons with Relebogile Mabotja is broadcast live on Johannesburg based talk radio station 702 every weekday afternoon. Relebogile brings a lighter touch to some of the issues of the day as well as a mix of lifestyle topics and a peak into the worlds of entertainment and leisure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Seven o two the Car Feature Car Feature Time on
seven oh two afternoons. It's twenty minutes two three o'clock today.
We are going to be having a conversation around unlocking
repair data. What does that all mean. We are joined
by Kate Elliott, the CEO of Right to Repair South Africa,
(00:21):
and we take your calls on odible one, double A
three or seven oh two in the whatsap line Oh
seven to seven oh two one seven two. Welcome to
the show, Kate, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi, thank you, thank you so much for having me.
I'm very happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Please tell us what the organization you work for does.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So. We are Right to Repair South Africa and we
run the campaign for fair competition in the automotive aftermarket
for South Africa. It is a campaign that has actually
run worldwide. We don't have official affiliation with other organizations
around the world, but we work closely with other organizations
that are doing the same work. And that work is
(01:06):
to ensure that you can choose where you want to
service your car. You're not getting locked into contracts when
you buy your car to say you have to service
your card XYZ. It allows you to shop around, choose
the best price for the best service that's been provided
and in a nutshell, that that's what we do.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
What is car repair data?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So car repair data that's quite a broad term. The
first part of it is the information that the technicians
need in order to work on your car, so you
know the specifications. It's let's say, for example, an oil change.
Each vehicle has a very specific kind of oil that
needs to be used for that particular vehicle, and so
(01:52):
it's the information as to what kind of oil that is.
It's also the information that your car is giving out.
The car might be saying well, this is wrong with
me or that is wrong with me, and you need
to be able to access that information. So basically it's
everything you need to know in order to maintain and
repair vehicles.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Now, is that information just publicly available.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
No, it's not. But we now have the guidelines for
competition in the South African automotive aftermarket. I know it's
quite a mouthful, but basically they are the guidelines that
have been produced by the Competition Commission in order to
explain how the Competition Act applies to this particular market.
And those guidelines say that the vehicle manufacturers. So that's
(02:39):
all your big name brands that everyone's familiar with and
need to provide that technical information too, technicians, so workshops.
The official term is independent service providers, but in layman's terms,
you know, that's the guys that you take your vehicle to.
They have to provide those independent service providers with the
techechnical information they need in order to work on those vehicles.
(03:04):
It doesn't have to be free, it needs to be
provided on fair and reasonable terms, and those terms must
not be worse than what they provide to their own dealerships.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Now, these sort of standards that you've put in place,
how cooperative has the industry been.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So, you know, we've had varying degrees of cooperation. It's
really quite difficult for the independent service providers to access
the technical information. So although legally they now have the right,
practically it's really quite difficult because of course, the vehicle
manufacturers are not going to make it easy for them.
(03:42):
There's no nice button on their website saying click here,
you know, for our portal to access the technical information.
Even if there was that portal, for example, that easy
quick access portal, it would still be quite complicated because
South afric is quite unique in that we have one
of the most diverse car parks on the road. What
(04:02):
that means is although we don't have crazy huge number
of cars on the road, that each car is quite different.
You know, we have a lot of variation in the
cars that are available. So, now if you are a
workshop that is working on multiple vehicles every day, you know,
multiple brands, You're not just dealing with one brand each day.
You've got lots of different ones coming in. You are
(04:24):
now needing to access a portal, a different portal for
each of those vehicles. And so this makes practically really
really difficult to access each portal. Then there's the costs
that you have to pay. Obviously you're going to have
to pay it each time. So practically, the way that
things are currently structured, it's just not really working in
(04:48):
a way that is economically viable for these independent service providers.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
All Right, we're going to take a break and when
we come back we will continue with Kate. Your calls
on odible one three or seven O two in the
what's line oh seven two seven oh two one seven
O two seven O two the car feature It is
thirteen minutes two three o'clock and we continue with our
car feature chatting Unlocking repair data and we are joined
(05:16):
by Kate Elliott, the CEO of Rights to Repair South Africa.
Your calls with your questions and comments on OU double
one double A three oh seven oh two in the
WhatsApp line oh seven two seven oh two one seven
oh two. We are going to open up the lines.
We've got Luke in Winchester Hills.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Hi, Luke, go ahead, Hi.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Hi there, hope you guys are doing well. A quick
question around FATS changes that are being made to what
we call part supersessions. So, for godful every year, the
OEM and the parts manufacturers they will change the part
numbers and it makes very difficult from the Right to
Repair perspectives for us to get parts for our gods
(06:01):
because there we are. They will just change the part number.
Then only they know what the new part number that
supersed the previous part is. Are there any planned or
any legislation around that in order to help owners and partrivers.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Oh that's a good one, Luke, Kate, Yes, thanks Luke.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So actually we have the well not writ legislation, but
the guidelines in place to deal with that and the
guidelines were amended about this time last year, and that
was to include access to part numbers. So you are
entitled to access to those part numbers now, I mean
you always were, but now it's specific. They have actually
(06:42):
put that as a line item in the guidelines. You
must have access to those part numbers.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Luke, if I may ask, which space are you in
and what are the challenges that you've faced with this
part numbers from the manufacturers.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
From out of the optimatus space at all? But just
I noticed that generally when you wanted to purchase a
specific part for your car, you would have a part
number this year, and the next year the part number
would change. So because you don't have the linkage between
the breggest part and the current part, it therefore becomes
very difficult to find that part. So example, certain break disks,
(07:19):
break theres, etc. That's just a general examplet comes to mind,
because it will really help the automotive mechanics and repair
shops and spear shops as well to have those part
linkages as well.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, oh, thank you so so much, Luke for that. Kate,
just on that maybe paint a picture for us, because
as a lay person I would just imagine that you
can if you reach out and refer using the old
part number, the manufacturers should be able to know exactly
(07:52):
what you're referring.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
To, one would think, So, I mean, this is the
first I've actually heard of this particular issue of part
numbers changing from one year to the next, So I'd
have to investigate it a bit further. But I don't
see why the vehicle manufacturer shouldn't be able to do
that linkage for you.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Sure, I was not aware that this was an issue
at all. So in terms of these guidelines, do you
believe that amending the guidelines to include data publishers would
address many of these current barriers to fair access?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yes, one percent. That is what we are currently calling for.
We believe it would resolve a lot of those issues.
Just to give you a bit of an explanation, data
publishers are companies, independent companies that go to the vehicle manufacturers.
They take that information from the vehicle manufacturers and they
go to all of the different ones and then they
(08:54):
repackage it, they supplement it, they make sure that it's
the absolute best information that a workshop could need in
order to work on a vehicle, and they then resell it.
It means that when those workshops are trying to access
technical information, they can go onto one portal. I mean,
of course, we want fair competition, so they must be
(09:15):
able to choose between data publishers or choose to go
to the OEM if sorry, vehicle manufacturer if they would
like to. But the idea is that these data publishers
just make it so much easier for the workshops. They
can pay one subscription and access one portal, and that
information has all been made uniform so that they're not
(09:36):
having to figure out different systems in different ways between
different vehicle manufacturers every time they're working on a new brand.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So which would be then the important collaborators to actually
make this work.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yes, yes, that's very much how we see things. That
is what is happening in Europe at the moment, and
it's working very very well. It's much easier for workshops
to work on vehicles there because they the data publishers
have this access. It means that the data publishers can
then focus on arguing with the vehicle manufacturers about getting
(10:12):
the information, and then the workshops can concentrate on just
working on the vehicles.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, now, let's chat in about the Right to repair conference.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Please tell me all about that. So we had a
conference right at the end of October, and it was
talking about exactly what we've just been talking about now,
about this need for access to technical information and for
the need for it to be made more readily available
or more easily available, because the thing is that there
(10:44):
is no right to repair without this access to technical confirmation.
Because if you can't work on a vehicle accurately and correctly,
you're not working on it safely. And so we really
without getting this right, you know, we kind of falling flat.
And so it's just such an important topic. So we
had a speaker from the European Union who represents the
(11:07):
data publishers there, Pierre Thibot, and he did a fantastic
job of explaining how these data publishers, how it works
in the EU and how they can benefit both the
public and the workshops. We also had someone from Canada speaking,
because you know, we have such so many commonalities between
(11:28):
the different regions because these vehicle manufacturers, they are operating
all over the world. It's not a unique problem to
South Africa, so we are able to learn from different jurisdictions.
We also had someone from the medical field, because right
to repair is not unique to vehicles. It's something that
goes across any product that can be repaired or maintained,
(11:53):
and so it was really interesting just to hear how
that interplays and how we can work with each other
in order to ensure that there's right to repair across
the board, because it is beneficial to the country's economy,
it's beneficial environmentally, it's beneficial for the consumer's choice and pocket.
You know. The only there is no downside to write
(12:16):
to repair. All it is is ensuring that we have
fair space where businesses that are run well can do well. Yeah, sorry,
I can you carry on?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Well? Please, please, you carry on, because I think if
a person doesn't live and breathe this world, it's of
course quite challenging to get a full picture and layer
of the land. We won't you know, understand it or
in one radio interview and conversation, but it does help
to also know just the little conversations that are happening
(12:48):
in that space, so you can continue. We still do
have a bit of time.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Okay, that's great, thank you. So then, yes, so, as
I mentioned, we mostly were speaking about whatever it is
you've been speaking about here, the challenges that workshops are
facing in terms of accessing technical information. So we had
Gunter Schmidz as well, who is our Right to Repair chairperson,
but he also owns several workshops in the Western Cape area,
(13:14):
and he was able to explain from a practical point
of view that everyday issues they have, and so it
was just a really great coming together of all different
ways of looking at a technical information and how we
access it and why it's important. And you know, one
of the points that gun To Schmidtz brought up, which
I think is so interesting, is that we have a
(13:37):
way of thinking about repair information for vehicles, repair and
maintenance information that is very ip so intellectual property protecting,
and you know, we kind of perhaps need to shift
our viewpoint of it. So let's take, for example, you're
building a house and you pay the architect and you
(13:58):
pay the builder, and you get the plans for your
house so that you can repair or do renovations or
do whatever you need to do to your house. You're
given those plans at the very start. It's not an extra,
it's not a nice to have, it's not a oh yes,
I'm such a nice architect. I'm going to give you
the plans. They just come standard. Of course, there are
(14:19):
some limitations on that. You're not allowed to go and
build five replica houses based on those plans, but you're
allowed to use them for the maintaining and repairing and
whatever you want to do to your house. And it
should be the same with vehicles. Why are owners not
given that access to that technical information that they need
to work on a vehicle? Of course, the average vehicle
(14:42):
owner does not have the know how, so they should
be able to be given that information that they can
then pass on or at least given the right to
that information that they can then pass on that right
to their chosen mechanic.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And I think that it's just that is so yes,
and I think that's so so important the way you
explained it, the way site is right, the number two
repair dot org dot z. That's right, the number two
repair dot org dot z. Kate, thank you for your time.
Seven o two the Car Feature Car Feature Time on
seven oh two afternoons. It's twenty minutes two three o'clock today.
We are going to be having a conversation around unlocking
repair data. What does that all mean. We are joined
by Kate Elliott, the CEO of Right to Repair South Africa,
(00:21):
and we take your calls on odible one, double A
three or seven oh two in the whatsap line Oh
seven to seven oh two one seven two. Welcome to
the show, Kate, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi, thank you, thank you so much for having me.
I'm very happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Please tell us what the organization you work for does.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So. We are Right to Repair South Africa and we
run the campaign for fair competition in the automotive aftermarket
for South Africa. It is a campaign that has actually
run worldwide. We don't have official affiliation with other organizations
around the world, but we work closely with other organizations
that are doing the same work. And that work is
(01:06):
to ensure that you can choose where you want to
service your car. You're not getting locked into contracts when
you buy your car to say you have to service
your card XYZ. It allows you to shop around, choose
the best price for the best service that's been provided
and in a nutshell, that that's what we do.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
What is car repair data?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So car repair data that's quite a broad term. The
first part of it is the information that the technicians
need in order to work on your car, so you
know the specifications. It's let's say, for example, an oil change.
Each vehicle has a very specific kind of oil that
needs to be used for that particular vehicle, and so
(01:52):
it's the information as to what kind of oil that is.
It's also the information that your car is giving out.
The car might be saying well, this is wrong with
me or that is wrong with me, and you need
to be able to access that information. So basically it's
everything you need to know in order to maintain and
repair vehicles.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Now, is that information just publicly available.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
No, it's not. But we now have the guidelines for
competition in the South African automotive aftermarket. I know it's
quite a mouthful, but basically they are the guidelines that
have been produced by the Competition Commission in order to
explain how the Competition Act applies to this particular market.
And those guidelines say that the vehicle manufacturers. So that's
(02:39):
all your big name brands that everyone's familiar with and
need to provide that technical information too, technicians, so workshops.
The official term is independent service providers, but in layman's terms,
you know, that's the guys that you take your vehicle to.
They have to provide those independent service providers with the
techechnical information they need in order to work on those vehicles.
(03:04):
It doesn't have to be free, it needs to be
provided on fair and reasonable terms, and those terms must
not be worse than what they provide to their own dealerships.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Now, these sort of standards that you've put in place,
how cooperative has the industry been.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So, you know, we've had varying degrees of cooperation. It's
really quite difficult for the independent service providers to access
the technical information. So although legally they now have the right,
practically it's really quite difficult because of course, the vehicle
manufacturers are not going to make it easy for them.
(03:42):
There's no nice button on their website saying click here,
you know, for our portal to access the technical information.
Even if there was that portal, for example, that easy
quick access portal, it would still be quite complicated because
South afric is quite unique in that we have one
of the most diverse car parks on the road. What
(04:02):
that means is although we don't have crazy huge number
of cars on the road, that each car is quite different.
You know, we have a lot of variation in the
cars that are available. So, now if you are a
workshop that is working on multiple vehicles every day, you know,
multiple brands, You're not just dealing with one brand each day.
You've got lots of different ones coming in. You are
(04:24):
now needing to access a portal, a different portal for
each of those vehicles. And so this makes practically really
really difficult to access each portal. Then there's the costs
that you have to pay. Obviously you're going to have
to pay it each time. So practically, the way that
things are currently structured, it's just not really working in
(04:48):
a way that is economically viable for these independent service providers.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
All Right, we're going to take a break and when
we come back we will continue with Kate. Your calls
on odible one three or seven O two in the
what's line oh seven two seven oh two one seven
O two seven O two the car feature It is
thirteen minutes two three o'clock and we continue with our
car feature chatting Unlocking repair data and we are joined
(05:16):
by Kate Elliott, the CEO of Rights to Repair South Africa.
Your calls with your questions and comments on OU double
one double A three oh seven oh two in the
WhatsApp line oh seven two seven oh two one seven
oh two. We are going to open up the lines.
We've got Luke in Winchester Hills.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Hi, Luke, go ahead, Hi.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Hi there, hope you guys are doing well. A quick
question around FATS changes that are being made to what
we call part supersessions. So, for godful every year, the
OEM and the parts manufacturers they will change the part
numbers and it makes very difficult from the Right to
Repair perspectives for us to get parts for our gods
(06:01):
because there we are. They will just change the part number.
Then only they know what the new part number that
supersed the previous part is. Are there any planned or
any legislation around that in order to help owners and partrivers.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Oh that's a good one, Luke, Kate, Yes, thanks Luke.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So actually we have the well not writ legislation, but
the guidelines in place to deal with that and the
guidelines were amended about this time last year, and that
was to include access to part numbers. So you are
entitled to access to those part numbers now, I mean
you always were, but now it's specific. They have actually
(06:42):
put that as a line item in the guidelines. You
must have access to those part numbers.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Luke, if I may ask, which space are you in
and what are the challenges that you've faced with this
part numbers from the manufacturers.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
From out of the optimatus space at all? But just
I noticed that generally when you wanted to purchase a
specific part for your car, you would have a part
number this year, and the next year the part number
would change. So because you don't have the linkage between
the breggest part and the current part, it therefore becomes
very difficult to find that part. So example, certain break disks,
(07:19):
break theres, etc. That's just a general examplet comes to mind,
because it will really help the automotive mechanics and repair
shops and spear shops as well to have those part
linkages as well.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, oh, thank you so so much, Luke for that. Kate,
just on that maybe paint a picture for us, because
as a lay person I would just imagine that you
can if you reach out and refer using the old
part number, the manufacturers should be able to know exactly
(07:52):
what you're referring.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
To, one would think, So, I mean, this is the
first I've actually heard of this particular issue of part
numbers changing from one year to the next, So I'd
have to investigate it a bit further. But I don't
see why the vehicle manufacturer shouldn't be able to do
that linkage for you.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Sure, I was not aware that this was an issue
at all. So in terms of these guidelines, do you
believe that amending the guidelines to include data publishers would
address many of these current barriers to fair access?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yes, one percent. That is what we are currently calling for.
We believe it would resolve a lot of those issues.
Just to give you a bit of an explanation, data
publishers are companies, independent companies that go to the vehicle manufacturers.
They take that information from the vehicle manufacturers and they
go to all of the different ones and then they
(08:54):
repackage it, they supplement it, they make sure that it's
the absolute best information that a workshop could need in
order to work on a vehicle, and they then resell it.
It means that when those workshops are trying to access
technical information, they can go onto one portal. I mean,
of course, we want fair competition, so they must be
(09:15):
able to choose between data publishers or choose to go
to the OEM if sorry, vehicle manufacturer if they would
like to. But the idea is that these data publishers
just make it so much easier for the workshops. They
can pay one subscription and access one portal, and that
information has all been made uniform so that they're not
(09:36):
having to figure out different systems in different ways between
different vehicle manufacturers every time they're working on a new brand.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So which would be then the important collaborators to actually
make this work.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yes, yes, that's very much how we see things. That
is what is happening in Europe at the moment, and
it's working very very well. It's much easier for workshops
to work on vehicles there because they the data publishers
have this access. It means that the data publishers can
then focus on arguing with the vehicle manufacturers about getting
(10:12):
the information, and then the workshops can concentrate on just
working on the vehicles.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, now, let's chat in about the Right to repair conference.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Please tell me all about that. So we had a
conference right at the end of October, and it was
talking about exactly what we've just been talking about now,
about this need for access to technical information and for
the need for it to be made more readily available
or more easily available, because the thing is that there
(10:44):
is no right to repair without this access to technical confirmation.
Because if you can't work on a vehicle accurately and correctly,
you're not working on it safely. And so we really
without getting this right, you know, we kind of falling flat.
And so it's just such an important topic. So we
had a speaker from the European Union who represents the
(11:07):
data publishers there, Pierre Thibot, and he did a fantastic
job of explaining how these data publishers, how it works
in the EU and how they can benefit both the
public and the workshops. We also had someone from Canada speaking,
because you know, we have such so many commonalities between
(11:28):
the different regions because these vehicle manufacturers, they are operating
all over the world. It's not a unique problem to
South Africa, so we are able to learn from different jurisdictions.
We also had someone from the medical field, because right
to repair is not unique to vehicles. It's something that
goes across any product that can be repaired or maintained,
(11:53):
and so it was really interesting just to hear how
that interplays and how we can work with each other
in order to ensure that there's right to repair across
the board, because it is beneficial to the country's economy,
it's beneficial environmentally, it's beneficial for the consumer's choice and pocket.
You know. The only there is no downside to write
(12:16):
to repair. All it is is ensuring that we have
fair space where businesses that are run well can do well. Yeah, sorry,
I can you carry on?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Well? Please, please, you carry on, because I think if
a person doesn't live and breathe this world, it's of
course quite challenging to get a full picture and layer
of the land. We won't you know, understand it or
in one radio interview and conversation, but it does help
to also know just the little conversations that are happening
(12:48):
in that space, so you can continue. We still do
have a bit of time.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Okay, that's great, thank you. So then, yes, so, as
I mentioned, we mostly were speaking about whatever it is
you've been speaking about here, the challenges that workshops are
facing in terms of accessing technical information. So we had
Gunter Schmidz as well, who is our Right to Repair chairperson,
but he also owns several workshops in the Western Cape area,
(13:14):
and he was able to explain from a practical point
of view that everyday issues they have, and so it
was just a really great coming together of all different
ways of looking at a technical information and how we
access it and why it's important. And you know, one
of the points that gun To Schmidtz brought up, which
I think is so interesting, is that we have a
(13:37):
way of thinking about repair information for vehicles, repair and
maintenance information that is very ip so intellectual property protecting,
and you know, we kind of perhaps need to shift
our viewpoint of it. So let's take, for example, you're
building a house and you pay the architect and you
(13:58):
pay the builder, and you get the plans for your
house so that you can repair or do renovations or
do whatever you need to do to your house. You're
given those plans at the very start. It's not an extra,
it's not a nice to have, it's not a oh yes,
I'm such a nice architect. I'm going to give you
the plans. They just come standard. Of course, there are
(14:19):
some limitations on that. You're not allowed to go and
build five replica houses based on those plans, but you're
allowed to use them for the maintaining and repairing and
whatever you want to do to your house. And it
should be the same with vehicles. Why are owners not
given that access to that technical information that they need
to work on a vehicle? Of course, the average vehicle
(14:42):
owner does not have the know how, so they should
be able to be given that information that they can
then pass on or at least given the right to
that information that they can then pass on that right
to their chosen mechanic.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And I think that it's just that is so yes,
and I think that's so so important the way you
explained it, the way site is right, the number two
repair dot org dot z. That's right, the number two
repair dot org dot z. Kate, thank you for your time.
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