August 7, 2025 • 15 mins
In this episode, Laura Dyrda, Editor-in-Chief at Becker’s Healthcare, joins Scott Becker to explore how health system leaders are navigating financial strain, Medicaid cuts, and organizational stress through long-term strategy, communication, and resilient leadership.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Exciting things are happening at Becker's Healthcare. Stay
ahead of industry trends with the new Becker's
CFO plus Revenue Cycle podcast,
your go to source for insights from top
healthcare finance leaders. Tune in wherever you get
your podcasts.
And don't miss the tenth annual health IT
plus digital health plus RCM conference, happening September
(00:22):
30 to 10/03/2025
in Chicago.
Join thousands of executives, engage with industry leaders,
and explore the future of health care innovation.
Learn more about our upcoming events at beckershospitalreview.com.
See you there.
This is Scott Becker with the Becker Healthcare
Podcast.
(00:42):
I am thrilled today to be joined by
Laura Dirda. Laura leads the editorial team at
Becker's health care. She is literally an amazing,
amazing leader in so many ways. I'm the
biggest fan of hers. We're gonna talk to
her today about a leadership subject,
something a little bit different than we usually
talk to her about. Usually, we talk about
(01:02):
what are the few key stories she's watching
currently.
And sort of taking off on a subject
that's near and dear to her heart, we're
We're gonna talk about when things are challenging,
and how leadership looks at rebounding and looking
at the future when they're challenging.
This topic is particularly appropriate
because health systems are looking at some daunting
cuts
(01:23):
in Medicaid and patient censuses. They're not just
like patient censuses,
but patients that might be able to pay
for services.
Yes. Under the one big beautiful bill, there's
a reduction of people covered by Medicaid,
and there's less subsidies for the accountable Affordable
Care Act, and that and that's potentially less
paying patients.
When you're in a daunting situation and and,
(01:45):
you know, I'm gonna ask Aura how she
hears leaders thinking about this and handling it,
while they're in a daunting situation.
So bring this back to Laura. What people
don't know about Aura Dierdab
is aside from being an incredible
leader and person and journalist,
she also is an avid White Sox fan,
and I'll tie these two together for our
audience.
(02:05):
The White Sox last year set the absolute
record in modern times for the number
of losses in a season.
All time records, they got a 122
losses, some insane amounts out of a 162
games. That's really being in a daunting, daunting
position. This year, we still got a couple
months left. They've exceeded that total. They're they're
not gonna do great this year, but the
(02:27):
guess is a lot of 56 to 58
wins compared to 40 or 42 last year.
So that's a sizable move in the right
direction. They They brought in new leadership,
took a different view with this. Hopefully, hope
that leader will stay. But but so the
whites actually started to move in the right
direction after a daunting time. House systems did
this a couple years ago when some big
systems were losing billions.
(02:48):
Now they're very concerned about the one big
beautiful bill and and a lot of other
things. Laura, how do health systems deal with
this in this time of sort of stress
on systems and and being in challenging place?
How do you turn around from that? How
do you manage yourself through that?
Absolutely. That's, you know, such a great question,
Scott. I think there's not one perfect answer,
but I am hearing, you know, several themes
(03:09):
emerging from the conversations I'm having with leaders
today,
whether it's, you know, seasoned veterans who have
been nimble and been able
to steer their organizations
through many challenges over the last five to
ten years or so, as well as new
leaders who are coming into the CEO or
president role for the first time
and trying to grasp and understand what's gonna
(03:30):
be beneficial
and make the most sense to lead their
organizations into success for the future. And, you
know, to
cap off your,
White Sox analogy here, I I think we
just exceeded our win total from last year
in getting 42 wins,
a few days ago. So it's just been,
fascinating to see how that organization has brought
(03:51):
in a new leader,
some new talent,
young talent,
and really focus on the fundamentals in order
to turn things around in Chicago. And, hopefully,
they'll continue to build within their core,
of young talent as well as a a
few key leaders who have stuck around, you
know, veterans who understand what it takes to
be great and can, continue to be,
(04:14):
you know, those types of leaders who exhibit
greatness every day, but understand, you know, how
they can prepare as well,
for the future. I think from a health
system perspective,
what we're hearing a lot right now from
CEOs, presidents, CFOs,
and others in the c suite is
very much the importance of really thinking through
what their strategic plans are gonna be, what
(04:36):
is going to change their strategic plans. It's
becoming harder once again to think into the
future, to plan three to five years out,
similarly to what they were facing in the
pandemic needing to even just look weeks and
months,
into the future to try to figure out
what's gonna make their organizations nimble, how they
can respond to the fast changes
within the landscape, and then really, truly set
(04:59):
their organizations on a course for success.
I think first and foremost, those who feel
like they've got a strong vision, a strong
mission that their teams can rally around, that
their physicians, clinicians, as well as,
team in general,
really feel strongly and passionate about their mission,
and vision for an organization that's not only
(05:21):
providing care for the community, that's serving the
underserved,
that is providing the best possible
workplace for them.
Also, you know, includes
that kind of core mission of now being
technology driven, technology enhanced, having everyone on board
with
seeing, you know, the very real and stark
realities of,
(05:42):
what's happening in health care today, the challenges
that c suites are facing,
to some degree, and then understanding the decisions
that they're making in real time. I think
one of the huge, huge lessons that we
learned during the pandemic is that communication and
the ability to communicate
with the front lines is critical.
The ability to go out and, connect with
(06:04):
those folks who are providing care at all
levels and then,
having the, you know, communication back to them,
getting feedback to understand what they're undergoing and
to hear from them, but then to, to
then rally and and volley back,
the final decisions and the why behind whatever
decision they're making is,
really critical, especially if you're looking at team
(06:26):
cuts, if you're looking at potential layoffs,
and then trying to figure out, you know,
how,
you're making some of these painful decisions for
the organization that are gonna be tough to
go through in the short term. But, you
know, in the long term, set the hospital
or system up for success in being able
to,
you know, continue to deliver care. I think
that's an extremely important and delicate message, and
(06:48):
it takes the right type of leader to
deliver that,
and go through, you know, the the right
steps in order to bring the organization along
with them. I I think it's critical as
well for,
just the whole team to see how much
the CEO, the president, and the entire c
suite cares about the community and cares about
(07:09):
their broader teams. I don't think there's a
single leader that,
would say that they don't struggle with the
decisions they're making on a daily basis, that
they don't care for their teams on a
personal level.
But being able to display that, being present
and,
really connecting with the the team, whether it's
through town halls, video messages, or some of
(07:30):
those one on one,
just connecting points for lunch, coffee,
being on the front lines and and pulling
people aside for quick conversations
can really go a long way to help,
the teams feel ownership and understand
what is happening in health care right now
and and be part of the solution quite
honestly.
I I think that, you know, there's so
(07:52):
much goodwill to be,
engendered from health care. You know, it's a
people
focused field. It it's definitely a space where
there's a lot of compassion, a lot of,
strong feelings about, you know, how people can,
really truly grow and succeed. You know, these
hospitals and systems are the backbone and and
(08:14):
cornerstone
of their communities. The people who are working
on the front lines, you know, Many of
them have been in the communities for years,
grew up there, and are just really proud
of the services being provided, from these hospital
systems. And so leaning into,
what that means on the community level, how
you can really connect with those who are
(08:34):
passionate about delivering care and then faster that
passion. And
and, I think that's really, really important,
to tap into for leaders. I I think
especially when you're looking at,
you know, the current times needing to be
nimble, needing to be flexible,
needing to
really prepare for a variety of different
(08:54):
realities, over the next six months, twelve
months, several years even.
You know, it's challenging. It's hard for change
to happen quickly. And so, winning the hearts
and minds of of the team is critical
right now. And the leaders that are doing
that the best are focused on transparency, they're
focused on communication,
and they can really storytell at a high
(09:16):
level,
so that their teams can understand the decisions
that are being made. They can understand the
really tough position that hospital and health system
leaders are in right now, and do whatever
they can in order to support the mission
of the organization.
Thank you very, very much. And a lot
of it is when things are challenging,
how do you keep a clear, calm composure
(09:37):
when you're going through a challenging time? How
do you think about that? Because, obviously, when
the White Sox lost a 122 games last
year, where the number was, trying to keep
a level head and some positivity
will bring the urgency to improvement. How how
do you sort of mix those different emotions
and managerial stances
when you're scared and struggling, but need to
keep relatively positive faith? What's the any any
(09:57):
common wisdom there? Oh, absolutely. Well, I know
the fans, the white sox were not cold
and collected about,
the situation, but the management team, the executive
team, as well as the players had to
be in order to,
keep coming back and and working towards change.
I think it's extremely challenging for leaders to
figure out how to manage their emotions, and
(10:18):
part of that is understanding their own well-being.
I think,
you know, having that level head, having that
ability to speak, you know, directly to their
team members in a measured and,
strong way so that they're engendering confidence in
no matter what happens on the outside, the
internal organization is always going to do what's
(10:38):
best for patients, is always going to be
bolting back to whatever their mission is,
I think is critical. I think that really
helps, people on the front lines, you know,
kind of temper
any stress or any anxiety around what could
happen even during challenging times. And so, you
know, looking at that emotional management will also
(10:59):
being very real and and clear about, you
know, the challenges they're going through,
takes a lot of effort. And quite honestly,
it takes a lot of discipline from leadership
teams. I I think,
you know, I've heard a lot of leaders
talk about just how much
they're trying to manage those expectations from the
team, how much they really want to, you
(11:21):
know, point the organization in the right direction.
They have to think long term. They can't
think short term. Because if you're looking at
things in a short term perspective, if you're
looking at, you know, some of the big
stressors that are coming over the next six
months to two years with the Medicaid cuts,
with other,
you know, changes coming all the types of
pipes with tariffs and expenses and everything else,
(11:42):
it becomes
overwhelming. It becomes, you know, more of
a, putting out fires than it does leading
a strategic organization. And so what I'm hearing
from c suite leaders is they have to,
think more broadly. They have to look long
term. Of of course, you know, they need
their teams. They need their managers and leaders
to,
(12:03):
have strong solutions, be prepared for whatever
changes or curve balls might be thrown their
way, and start thinking now about, you know,
changes we know will happen over the next
two years with Medicaid and with other funding
cuts,
and trying to find different interesting solutions to
those problems as well. And when they're able
to bring themselves out of that day to
(12:23):
day, the stress, the kind of constant moving
and shifting of, you know, what's new, what
what are the new challenges, what's now, affecting
their organizations or the bottom line,
to to think more globally and and think,
more big picture. They can actually see some
of the different and unique and innovative partnerships
that could be solutions to some of their
(12:44):
problems.
They're able to look at technology in a
more meaningful way as well and see, okay.
Here's, you know, the spaces where it makes
sense to invest in technology that can support
our teams in long term. You know, we
can pivot away from some of those things
that are adding risk into the organization or
adding additional stress and and really become more
(13:05):
of a hospital or system of the future
that's,
organized in a way that cuts some of
the red tape and really truly does,
weed out the inefficiencies,
the ineffectiveness,
and, you know, the people
management of it in in really supporting their
teams in a strong way, with, as I
mentioned, just some of those creative partnerships
(13:27):
within health care and without,
some with the communities, some with large companies
or retailers piloting different programs. And,
and then, you know, looking to spaces where
they're able to find solutions that are outside
of, you know, anything we've ever done before.
I think health care is certainly in a
transformative time, and so
we all have heard the saying, what worked
(13:48):
before,
won't necessarily get you to where you want
to be, and I think that's never been
truer than it is right now in health
care.
And in in thinking the big picture like
that too, it actually will help leaders, you
know,
figure see things in a, positive light, see
kind of light up the end of the
tunnel,
and feel more optimistic about the future because
(14:09):
when they're constantly putting out fires that add
so much stress and so much anxiety.
And so, you know, in trying to balance
the near term with the short term, they're,
of course, gonna have to live sometimes in
that space where,
you know, they're helping their teams kind of
make that transition when they're,
responding really truly to, you know, those,
(14:30):
surprises that come up on a regular and
daily basis. But, ultimately,
you know, having, and building an organization where,
you know, leaders across the company and across
the hospital or system,
really know what they're pulling out of and
understand their true north so that they can
make decisions,
you know, that will
really,
(14:51):
fortify, I guess, the organization as much as
possible against any kind of real severe and
significant
financial issues and and team issues and that
kind of thing.
It it really makes a big difference for
how they're perceived as well as how they're
able to be strong leaders, for the future.
Laura,
thank you so much for joining us on
(15:11):
the Becker's Healthcare podcast. So many people facing
these challenges of being a sort of either
a good spot or a bad spot, but
neither way looking at daunting challenges and trying
to figure out a way forward. So, Laura,
an important discussion. Thank you for joining us
today on the Becker's Healthcare podcast. You're always
exceptional. Thank you very, very much.
Thanks, Scott. I appreciate it.
Exciting things are happening at Becker's Healthcare. Stay
ahead of industry trends with the new Becker's
CFO plus Revenue Cycle podcast,
your go to source for insights from top
healthcare finance leaders. Tune in wherever you get
your podcasts.
And don't miss the tenth annual health IT
plus digital health plus RCM conference, happening September
(00:22):
30 to 10/03/2025
in Chicago.
Join thousands of executives, engage with industry leaders,
and explore the future of health care innovation.
Learn more about our upcoming events at beckershospitalreview.com.
See you there.
This is Scott Becker with the Becker Healthcare
Podcast.
(00:42):
I am thrilled today to be joined by
Laura Dirda. Laura leads the editorial team at
Becker's health care. She is literally an amazing,
amazing leader in so many ways. I'm the
biggest fan of hers. We're gonna talk to
her today about a leadership subject,
something a little bit different than we usually
talk to her about. Usually, we talk about
(01:02):
what are the few key stories she's watching
currently.
And sort of taking off on a subject
that's near and dear to her heart, we're
We're gonna talk about when things are challenging,
and how leadership looks at rebounding and looking
at the future when they're challenging.
This topic is particularly appropriate
because health systems are looking at some daunting
cuts
(01:23):
in Medicaid and patient censuses. They're not just
like patient censuses,
but patients that might be able to pay
for services.
Yes. Under the one big beautiful bill, there's
a reduction of people covered by Medicaid,
and there's less subsidies for the accountable Affordable
Care Act, and that and that's potentially less
paying patients.
When you're in a daunting situation and and,
(01:45):
you know, I'm gonna ask Aura how she
hears leaders thinking about this and handling it,
while they're in a daunting situation.
So bring this back to Laura. What people
don't know about Aura Dierdab
is aside from being an incredible
leader and person and journalist,
she also is an avid White Sox fan,
and I'll tie these two together for our
audience.
(02:05):
The White Sox last year set the absolute
record in modern times for the number
of losses in a season.
All time records, they got a 122
losses, some insane amounts out of a 162
games. That's really being in a daunting, daunting
position. This year, we still got a couple
months left. They've exceeded that total. They're they're
not gonna do great this year, but the
(02:27):
guess is a lot of 56 to 58
wins compared to 40 or 42 last year.
So that's a sizable move in the right
direction. They They brought in new leadership,
took a different view with this. Hopefully, hope
that leader will stay. But but so the
whites actually started to move in the right
direction after a daunting time. House systems did
this a couple years ago when some big
systems were losing billions.
(02:48):
Now they're very concerned about the one big
beautiful bill and and a lot of other
things. Laura, how do health systems deal with
this in this time of sort of stress
on systems and and being in challenging place?
How do you turn around from that? How
do you manage yourself through that?
Absolutely. That's, you know, such a great question,
Scott. I think there's not one perfect answer,
but I am hearing, you know, several themes
(03:09):
emerging from the conversations I'm having with leaders
today,
whether it's, you know, seasoned veterans who have
been nimble and been able
to steer their organizations
through many challenges over the last five to
ten years or so, as well as new
leaders who are coming into the CEO or
president role for the first time
and trying to grasp and understand what's gonna
(03:30):
be beneficial
and make the most sense to lead their
organizations into success for the future. And, you
know, to
cap off your,
White Sox analogy here, I I think we
just exceeded our win total from last year
in getting 42 wins,
a few days ago. So it's just been,
fascinating to see how that organization has brought
(03:51):
in a new leader,
some new talent,
young talent,
and really focus on the fundamentals in order
to turn things around in Chicago. And, hopefully,
they'll continue to build within their core,
of young talent as well as a a
few key leaders who have stuck around, you
know, veterans who understand what it takes to
be great and can, continue to be,
(04:14):
you know, those types of leaders who exhibit
greatness every day, but understand, you know, how
they can prepare as well,
for the future. I think from a health
system perspective,
what we're hearing a lot right now from
CEOs, presidents, CFOs,
and others in the c suite is
very much the importance of really thinking through
what their strategic plans are gonna be, what
(04:36):
is going to change their strategic plans. It's
becoming harder once again to think into the
future, to plan three to five years out,
similarly to what they were facing in the
pandemic needing to even just look weeks and
months,
into the future to try to figure out
what's gonna make their organizations nimble, how they
can respond to the fast changes
within the landscape, and then really, truly set
(04:59):
their organizations on a course for success.
I think first and foremost, those who feel
like they've got a strong vision, a strong
mission that their teams can rally around, that
their physicians, clinicians, as well as,
team in general,
really feel strongly and passionate about their mission,
and vision for an organization that's not only
(05:21):
providing care for the community, that's serving the
underserved,
that is providing the best possible
workplace for them.
Also, you know, includes
that kind of core mission of now being
technology driven, technology enhanced, having everyone on board
with
seeing, you know, the very real and stark
realities of,
(05:42):
what's happening in health care today, the challenges
that c suites are facing,
to some degree, and then understanding the decisions
that they're making in real time. I think
one of the huge, huge lessons that we
learned during the pandemic is that communication and
the ability to communicate
with the front lines is critical.
The ability to go out and, connect with
(06:04):
those folks who are providing care at all
levels and then,
having the, you know, communication back to them,
getting feedback to understand what they're undergoing and
to hear from them, but then to, to
then rally and and volley back,
the final decisions and the why behind whatever
decision they're making is,
really critical, especially if you're looking at team
(06:26):
cuts, if you're looking at potential layoffs,
and then trying to figure out, you know,
how,
you're making some of these painful decisions for
the organization that are gonna be tough to
go through in the short term. But, you
know, in the long term, set the hospital
or system up for success in being able
to,
you know, continue to deliver care. I think
that's an extremely important and delicate message, and
(06:48):
it takes the right type of leader to
deliver that,
and go through, you know, the the right
steps in order to bring the organization along
with them. I I think it's critical as
well for,
just the whole team to see how much
the CEO, the president, and the entire c
suite cares about the community and cares about
(07:09):
their broader teams. I don't think there's a
single leader that,
would say that they don't struggle with the
decisions they're making on a daily basis, that
they don't care for their teams on a
personal level.
But being able to display that, being present
and,
really connecting with the the team, whether it's
through town halls, video messages, or some of
(07:30):
those one on one,
just connecting points for lunch, coffee,
being on the front lines and and pulling
people aside for quick conversations
can really go a long way to help,
the teams feel ownership and understand
what is happening in health care right now
and and be part of the solution quite
honestly.
I I think that, you know, there's so
(07:52):
much goodwill to be,
engendered from health care. You know, it's a
people
focused field. It it's definitely a space where
there's a lot of compassion, a lot of,
strong feelings about, you know, how people can,
really truly grow and succeed. You know, these
hospitals and systems are the backbone and and
(08:14):
cornerstone
of their communities. The people who are working
on the front lines, you know, Many of
them have been in the communities for years,
grew up there, and are just really proud
of the services being provided, from these hospital
systems. And so leaning into,
what that means on the community level, how
you can really connect with those who are
(08:34):
passionate about delivering care and then faster that
passion. And
and, I think that's really, really important,
to tap into for leaders. I I think
especially when you're looking at,
you know, the current times needing to be
nimble, needing to be flexible,
needing to
really prepare for a variety of different
(08:54):
realities, over the next six months, twelve
months, several years even.
You know, it's challenging. It's hard for change
to happen quickly. And so, winning the hearts
and minds of of the team is critical
right now. And the leaders that are doing
that the best are focused on transparency, they're
focused on communication,
and they can really storytell at a high
(09:16):
level,
so that their teams can understand the decisions
that are being made. They can understand the
really tough position that hospital and health system
leaders are in right now, and do whatever
they can in order to support the mission
of the organization.
Thank you very, very much. And a lot
of it is when things are challenging,
how do you keep a clear, calm composure
(09:37):
when you're going through a challenging time? How
do you think about that? Because, obviously, when
the White Sox lost a 122 games last
year, where the number was, trying to keep
a level head and some positivity
will bring the urgency to improvement. How how
do you sort of mix those different emotions
and managerial stances
when you're scared and struggling, but need to
keep relatively positive faith? What's the any any
(09:57):
common wisdom there? Oh, absolutely. Well, I know
the fans, the white sox were not cold
and collected about,
the situation, but the management team, the executive
team, as well as the players had to
be in order to,
keep coming back and and working towards change.
I think it's extremely challenging for leaders to
figure out how to manage their emotions, and
(10:18):
part of that is understanding their own well-being.
I think,
you know, having that level head, having that
ability to speak, you know, directly to their
team members in a measured and,
strong way so that they're engendering confidence in
no matter what happens on the outside, the
internal organization is always going to do what's
(10:38):
best for patients, is always going to be
bolting back to whatever their mission is,
I think is critical. I think that really
helps, people on the front lines, you know,
kind of temper
any stress or any anxiety around what could
happen even during challenging times. And so, you
know, looking at that emotional management will also
(10:59):
being very real and and clear about, you
know, the challenges they're going through,
takes a lot of effort. And quite honestly,
it takes a lot of discipline from leadership
teams. I I think,
you know, I've heard a lot of leaders
talk about just how much
they're trying to manage those expectations from the
team, how much they really want to, you
(11:21):
know, point the organization in the right direction.
They have to think long term. They can't
think short term. Because if you're looking at
things in a short term perspective, if you're
looking at, you know, some of the big
stressors that are coming over the next six
months to two years with the Medicaid cuts,
with other,
you know, changes coming all the types of
pipes with tariffs and expenses and everything else,
(11:42):
it becomes
overwhelming. It becomes, you know, more of
a, putting out fires than it does leading
a strategic organization. And so what I'm hearing
from c suite leaders is they have to,
think more broadly. They have to look long
term. Of of course, you know, they need
their teams. They need their managers and leaders
to,
(12:03):
have strong solutions, be prepared for whatever
changes or curve balls might be thrown their
way, and start thinking now about, you know,
changes we know will happen over the next
two years with Medicaid and with other funding
cuts,
and trying to find different interesting solutions to
those problems as well. And when they're able
to bring themselves out of that day to
(12:23):
day, the stress, the kind of constant moving
and shifting of, you know, what's new, what
what are the new challenges, what's now, affecting
their organizations or the bottom line,
to to think more globally and and think,
more big picture. They can actually see some
of the different and unique and innovative partnerships
that could be solutions to some of their
(12:44):
problems.
They're able to look at technology in a
more meaningful way as well and see, okay.
Here's, you know, the spaces where it makes
sense to invest in technology that can support
our teams in long term. You know, we
can pivot away from some of those things
that are adding risk into the organization or
adding additional stress and and really become more
(13:05):
of a hospital or system of the future
that's,
organized in a way that cuts some of
the red tape and really truly does,
weed out the inefficiencies,
the ineffectiveness,
and, you know, the people
management of it in in really supporting their
teams in a strong way, with, as I
mentioned, just some of those creative partnerships
(13:27):
within health care and without,
some with the communities, some with large companies
or retailers piloting different programs. And,
and then, you know, looking to spaces where
they're able to find solutions that are outside
of, you know, anything we've ever done before.
I think health care is certainly in a
transformative time, and so
we all have heard the saying, what worked
(13:48):
before,
won't necessarily get you to where you want
to be, and I think that's never been
truer than it is right now in health
care.
And in in thinking the big picture like
that too, it actually will help leaders, you
know,
figure see things in a, positive light, see
kind of light up the end of the
tunnel,
and feel more optimistic about the future because
(14:09):
when they're constantly putting out fires that add
so much stress and so much anxiety.
And so, you know, in trying to balance
the near term with the short term, they're,
of course, gonna have to live sometimes in
that space where,
you know, they're helping their teams kind of
make that transition when they're,
responding really truly to, you know, those,
(14:30):
surprises that come up on a regular and
daily basis. But, ultimately,
you know, having, and building an organization where,
you know, leaders across the company and across
the hospital or system,
really know what they're pulling out of and
understand their true north so that they can
make decisions,
you know, that will
really,
(14:51):
fortify, I guess, the organization as much as
possible against any kind of real severe and
significant
financial issues and and team issues and that
kind of thing.
It it really makes a big difference for
how they're perceived as well as how they're
able to be strong leaders, for the future.
Laura,
thank you so much for joining us on
(15:11):
the Becker's Healthcare podcast. So many people facing
these challenges of being a sort of either
a good spot or a bad spot, but
neither way looking at daunting challenges and trying
to figure out a way forward. So, Laura,
an important discussion. Thank you for joining us
today on the Becker's Healthcare podcast. You're always
exceptional. Thank you very, very much.
Thanks, Scott. I appreciate it.
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