May 27, 2025 • 36 mins
What has your body been trying to tell you all along? In this profound conclusion to our three-part series, we explore how our physical bodies, specifically as male and female—communicate God's most essential nature: love that gives itself away.
Diving into Genesis, we see human beings as image-bearers of God. The first attribute mentioned about humans in scripture is that they are "male and female," suggesting our gendered bodies communicate something vital about our Creator. We examine how the Fall distorted this vision, introducing shame where there had been blessing and dignity.
Our pornographic culture has further blinded us, reducing bodies to objects of pleasure rather than carriers of God's Image. By gutting the body's message of family, commitment, and self-giving love, we've lost sight of what our bodies are trying to tell us about who God is and who we're meant to be.
Whether you're struggling with pornography, wrestling with body image, or simply longing to see yourself and others as God sees you, this episode offers a vision of human embodiment that dignifies rather than degrades. Join us in praying, "Lord, help us to see as you see."
Resources from this series:
Celebration of the Disciplines by Richard Foster
Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friends, glad that you are back with us.
I want to start out by askingor by giving you a statement,
just to kind of sit with as westart.
And here's the statement yourbody has been trying to tell you
something.
Men's bodies have been tryingto tell you something.
Women's bodies have been tryingto tell you something.
(00:23):
All right, so welcome back tothis three-part series.
We're doing really kind ofunpacking these ideas.
First of all, that Jesus seesdifferently than most of us do,
the average person does, butwe're actually designed to see
as Jesus sees.
God intends for us to see asJesus sees.
And then, secondly, pornography.
(00:44):
Lust hides from us us.
It keeps us from seeing whatwe're intended to see, and we
unpacked that a little bit morelast week, even even beginning
to ask the question well, whatare we supposed to see?
So, james craig and myself,we're here to unpack this third
part.
Um, james, as we're, as we'regetting started, what's what
(01:05):
stands out to you?
As you've had a little bit oftime to digest the last couple
of weeks, what stands out to you?
That maybe would be a goodplace to begin today for you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think one of the things that really stuck out
from last week's episode wasthis idea of we often see people
as either objects or obstaclesand we often lust after objects
and loathe obstacles that are inour way versus this idea that
Jesus sees us as people, peoplethat he cares more about than
(01:37):
even the problems we cause.
Quite a paradigm shift there,recognizing both sides of how we
don't really see people the wayhe does.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, it was a helpful framework for me too and
even as we stopped recordinglast time and you were kind of
highlighting that, it is an easyplace for us to park and even
kind of hold up for ourselves ifwe're beginning to ask the
question like, well, how am Idoing in seeing like Jesus sees?
And we can kind of hold up thatthe mirror.
Am I seeing someone as anobstacle to my happiness?
(02:08):
Am I seeing someone as anobject for my happiness, for my
sexual pleasure?
Is a helpful place.
If that's the case and ifthat's all that we're seeing
there, then likely we have moreroom to grow and become
sanctified in seeing as Jesussees.
One of the quotes we shared atthe end of last episode was this
beautiful quote by John Paul IIwhere he says that the problem
(02:30):
with pornography is not that itshows too much, but rather that
it shows too little, and in thelast podcast we talked about
what that means in regards toseeing the person.
I want to dive into that again,but this time we're going to
kind of look at it, at it from adifferent angle and I think
maybe even more of the anglethat John Paul II had in mind,
(02:51):
or at least what he part of whathe wanted to unfold for us with
that and and that's that'swhere we come into this this
question of what has your body,or his body or her body, been
trying to tell you?
So to begin, we have to go toGenesis 1.
And I want to point somethingout that maybe you haven't ever
(03:13):
noticed before, listeners,because in Genesis 1, we read
this creation account, the firstcreation account scripture
gives us, and through it thereare these God creates everything
that we know.
He creates the material world.
God, who is spirit, creates thematerial world, anything from
the sun and the moon, the stars,the planet earth, the waters,
(03:34):
the animals, the creatures inthe earth, the creatures that
creep in the earth, thecreatures that fly over the
earth, the creatures that swimin the waters, the deserts, the
mountains Just use yourimagination, kind of scan the
earth.
And then on day six, thepassage kind of takes a sharp
turn, because then God speaksaloud to and theologians would
(03:57):
suggest that he either speaks tothe kind of the heavenly court
or he's even speaking kind of tohimself, and christian
theologians might, might say,well, that's maybe even a hint
there, of him speaking um,father, son, holy spirit, kind
of speaking to to himself, butsays this amazing phrase let us
create humankind in our image.
(04:18):
And so he does.
And the first, so I kind ofalways imagine, like all of
creation leaning in here, theangels, the other creatures on
the earth leaning in and go like, okay, well, all of this is
amazing.
I mean, it's hard to look atthe ocean without thinking
you're getting some sense ofGod's depth and grandeur.
The mountains, the same thing.
(04:39):
A lion, the same thing.
A lamb, perhaps somethingdifferent than that.
The sun, something differentthan that.
These all express God in someway.
But he doesn't say about any ofthose things that they're
created in his image andlikeness, like this last
creature, like he said aboutthis last creature, so, kind of
imagine all creation leaning inand be like, well, what's unique
about this creature made inGod's image?
(05:00):
And there's one attributethat's listed, the first
attribute that was listed in thefirst chapter of the first book
of the Bible, about this onecreature created in God's image
is male and female.
He created them.
And then the first.
Well, let me just pause therefor a moment James, what does
(05:23):
that do the average person to?
To wrestle with that, to reckonwith that, to drink that in, do
you think?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think it's especially interesting in our
culture that male and female aregiven this kind of fundamental
place in the image, bearing bothtogether, as, like male and
female, he created them like,imaging him together, god, who
is spirit and they're.
You know, it's like it's it'shard to even wrap my mind around
but also just the idea thatthat's given really core.
(05:53):
It's given a core like, if madein the image of god's, kind of
the center of our identity, theabsolute center, like it sounds
to my ears, like male and femaleare right right there after
that, you know, just likefundamental, maybe even with
that.
So there's something kind ofinteresting about that and, um,
I'm not sure if maybe our worldappreciates that in the way I
(06:16):
don't know if it ever did, butum, it's just interesting to
think about as all kinds ofissues around, um, kind of
thinking ourselves intoexistence and dissociating from
our bodies or our like, matter,even like science.
You know the irony of manypeople who would kind of
prescribe to scientism, like theidea that science is all there
(06:38):
is and everything can beexplained by science, are often
those who might reject orstruggle with and we all might
struggle with this to someextent um, the fact that we have
these material bodies that canfeel pain and are gendered and
are um distinct from one anotheryeah, yeah, yeah it, it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It's interesting, uh, when I was in seminary not that
long ago, when we studied thispassage and looked up
commentaries that would talkabout you know what does this
mean?
That we're made in the image ofGod, and for centuries up to
current day, there's very littlewritten about male and female.
He created them.
(07:21):
There's a lot about freedom,there's a lot about relationship
, maybe the relation,relationality of human beings,
but nothing specific about theirembodiedness as male and female
, even though it's right therein the text, which I, I would
suggest, may, may have more todo with our own discomfort with
male and female.
We'll get into that a littlebit in a minute than it does
with what scripture actuallyreveals there.
(07:42):
And I owe I think our presentday owes Christianity, the
Christian church owes a debt ofgratitude, I think, to Pope John
Paul II, the late Pope JohnPaul II, and how he helped to
unpack this and put a lens onthis in a way that really is
needful in this day and age, andI think that'll become more
(08:06):
clear as we, as we move forwardtoday.
Um, and there's more um, we'llsit.
So let me couple clarifyingpoints.
Number one uh, we're not in anyway suggesting that the
scriptures are teaching that Godis male or female, or male and
female.
God is not, he is, he is spirit.
That's to make, uh, god in ourimage rather than us being made
(08:26):
in his image.
There's what we are saying is,there's something about manhood
and something about womanhood asexpressed in the body of man
and woman that gives visibleexpression to the invisible
attributes of our spiritual God.
Um, what those are, I'm goingto leave for for you to muse on
as we, as we talk through this,but I think you might begin to
(08:46):
get some pictures as we goforward.
I also want to highlight that ifthat's the first attribute,
notice also the first commandgiven to this creature, the
first command given thiscreature, the first attribute is
male and female created.
The first command is befruitful and multiply and fill
the earth and and then afterthat he says and rule over it
(09:08):
and subdue it.
Interestingly again, inseminary I I it was more common
to read anybody talking aboutyep, they're given dominion over
the earth.
They were like this is whatmankind does, humankind does.
Hardly anybody said anythingabout be fruitful, multiply.
I was like wait, what are youdoing?
It's right there.
It's the first command.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's kind of wild.
You'd almost think like thefirst command might be like be
good or like love each other andlove me, but the first command
is literally have a lot of sex.
It's kind of wild.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, well, actually, james, I would, and we're going
to get into this, but I wouldsuggest that that what you're
pointing out there, like wewould suspect, the first command
would be love, or love.
Like me, I think that isexactly what this text is saying
, and we're going to get intothat a little bit, but it's, but
it's.
I think one of the again, oneof the reasons we move away from
(10:01):
be fruitful and multiply isbecause we've been so disrupted.
Our eyes don't see clearly whowe are, what we are.
So we we have this even a we'vebeen more trained by
pornography about, and we're ina pornographied culture about
what sex is and what it means tobe fruitful and multiply, than
we have by by by the eyes of Godlooking at us naked and
(10:24):
unashamed as men and as women.
Just to hammer this point homea little bit more, let's go to
Genesis 3.
When Adam and Eve fall, thefirst consequence of the fall,
or at least their first reactionto the fall, is to you remember
(10:46):
it, james, eyed right, yeah,and specifically, they sew fig
leaves together to cover theirloin, like their loin covering.
So they're covering theirgenitals, they're covering what
makes them distinct as man andwoman.
So to my eye, this is all overthe creation account and all
(11:06):
over genesis one, two and three,where we take a first look at
what a human person is.
And when adam and eve unpluggedfrom the spirit of god through
their disobedience, somethingwent sideways in regards to how,
how they felt about and howthey understood and saw each
other as image bearers of god.
One way I like to say it isthat what had been a blessing in
(11:32):
their nakedness andunashamedness, their ability to
become Genesis 2, for thisreason, each other, and to honor
and dignify each other withtheir, with their, with their
(11:55):
eyes, um, something happened.
I, I, I kind of this isinference, or I'm kind of
speculating here, but kind ofwonder if, if, before, when,
when adam and looked upon eve,uh, before the fall, if she just
felt seen and blessed and evenlike she knew herself and what
she was and who she was, morebecause of the way that he
(12:18):
looked at her and felt safe andgood and beautiful and honored
and, um, full of dignity and andlike him and yet different from
him and vice versa, and yetdifferent from him and vice
versa.
He felt that way as she lookedat him.
But after the fall.
Now, when she feels his eyes onher, something's different, and
(12:41):
when he feels her eyes on him,something is different.
And when they, going forward inGenesis 3, feel the presence of
the Lord coming near, hear himcoming near and consider that
he's going to be looking on them, what had been blessing in
their nakedness now becomesincredible terror and they run
to hide from him.
Um, and how stark that contrastfrom where we ended the last
(13:03):
podcast with the idea of umbeing seen by Jesus and the
actual ways he looked on us,even in our sin.
So respond to that a little bit.
What?
What was percolating over thereas you're hearing that one?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
of the things that strikes me is that there's not
actually anyone else there likeis it them?
The serpent, right and I meanin some sense God wasn't like
manifestly present, right,because he kind of enters the
scene in the next little bit butit's even just with the two of
them that they felt like theyhad to hide their nakedness, at
(13:38):
least that's how the narrativeseems to portray it.
So it just strikes me that,like you're saying, it's not
just about hiding from othersyou know, like you wouldn't want
to be seen naked out on thestreet or whatever but it's like
from each other, as you know,husband and wife, from almost
like from themselves, like evenindividually maybe yeah, yeah,
(13:59):
and I think I actually thinklike even in in those one-to-one
settings between husband andwife.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
so let's just talk about husband and wife for a
minute, because these are twopeople who we would assume um
have committed to each other,love each other, want to be with
each other.
They've made lifelong vows tobe together and yet I would, I
would suggest that most of ourlisteners who are married would
say they, they are, they arefamiliar with shame in their
(14:28):
nakedness with their spouse.
They are familiar withdiscomfort or questions of how
do I compare to other peoplethat he sees or that she sees?
Am I pleasing to him or her?
What about when we get older?
What about after I've hadbabies?
What about when I lose my job?
(14:48):
What about when I lose mytemper?
Like, what is it like to benaked in front of her or him?
Then I think we're reallyfamiliar with this experience of
shame and how shame makes usfeel, almost like we are
rewinding to before Adam and Evecame together.
So before they came together,adam was alone and had that
(15:11):
sense of being alone, and Ithink that shame has a way to
kind of cast us back into thatkind of darkness of even with
somebody feeling like we'realone most like shame is.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
If we're talking about this theme of really
seeing someone.
Shame is like feeling notreally seen.
Maybe you you looked at, maybeyou know stuff about me, but
like either I can't let youreally see me, cause what are
you, how are you going torespond to that?
Or I don't feel like you'rereally seeing me right now.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, yeah, or maybe I'd add to that, maybe you'd
agree, like the way that I seemyself is is means it's bad news
for you to see me.
So maybe, maybe for some peopleit's like yeah, um, you know, I
feel like you're, you're seeingme, but the way that you're
(16:02):
seeing me feels like you'rereally not seeing me.
And then for others there's afeeling of like, yeah, I, the
way I see, like I don't want youto see me.
Um and I, and I think I've I'vetalked in my work here at
region.
I've talked to people who kindof fall in both those camps.
I know, um, given a talk to agroup of parents about some of
(16:24):
this stuff, and this woman cameto me afterwards which is not
uncommon for people to kind ofpull me aside and want a little
private conversation and justsaying, man, I don't feel safe
or loved with my husband in ourmarriage bed.
I feel like he's using me, notloving me, and this is a part of
(16:47):
the intimate place of we'remade to.
We're meant to see like Jesussees.
He is revealing to us what ahuman person is meant to of,
like the intimate place of wewant.
When we're made to, we're meantto see, like jesus sees.
He is revealing to us what ahuman person is meant to see.
Like um and this, this, that,in comparison, that's even in
the marriage bedroom, comparedto like jesus with the woman,
the immoral woman.
It's I'm the pharisee, it'scalled a sinner, but Jesus saw
(17:10):
as this beloved woman who lovedvery much.
All right, so let's keep going,though, because we got, we have
limited time.
I want to come back to this ideaof what her body is trying to
tell you.
So, and I want to, I want toget there by kind of going the
other way.
I want to compare it to likewhat we actually see, or what
our pornographied culture hastaught us to see.
(17:32):
Our sexualized media has taughtus to see when we see another
person and then kind of flipthat on its head as we're
thinking about how we image God.
So one of the things I'venoticed over the years about
pornography or sexualized mediaare some of the things that are
missing from the media.
Are some of the things that aremissing from the media?
(17:53):
First of all, like you know,like human being, like you know,
it's kind of the idealized,quote-unquote idealized body
type, usually not a lot ofspectrum there.
There's usually, like you know,the woman looks just, and it's
especially hard on women, and somany young women are like, just
(18:13):
being brutalized by the imagesput in front of them.
I'm like this is what a realwoman is and this is what a good
body is.
A good body looks like this.
But men are experienced thattoo.
I was just talking to a coupleof young guys this last week who
were expressing like one waslike man, I just feel like, you
know, my body's not very goodbecause I'm overweight.
And the other guy was like Ifeel like my body's not very
good Cause it's really skinny.
Um, but notice what's missingthere.
(18:33):
Like the whole realm of likewhat makes a good body is just
wrapped up in some I don't knowwhere it came from, but some
picture of like it has to looklike this.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's pretty different than even a couple hundred
years ago.
Like the most fashionableQueens or kings look pretty
different than what we mightidealize in some ways today yeah
, which just suggests likesomething's missing.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Um, but it's also what the other thing that we're
missing with that is like.
Your body is not just how itappears to other people.
Your body includes all yourfaculties to engage the world
your sense of smell, yourability to hear, your ability to
taste, your ability to touch,um.
So the idea that we'vetruncated what makes a good body
(19:21):
to how it appears to otherpeople or to kind of get back
into the conversation we've beenhaving, how other people, how
your body makes other peoplefeel that's's the, you know,
like lust or loathing rightVersus my body is how I hold my
daughter.
My body is the only way I canhold my daughter.
(19:43):
My body is how I get to see mywife.
My body is how I get to hearwhat you're saying to me right
now, james, and how I get totake in the nuances and insights
that you bring to thisconversation.
That's all thanks to my body,which is very good.
So the pornographied,sexualized media dismisses all
(20:04):
that.
None of that matters.
It's just how you make me feel,um.
Second thing I think that'smissing and this is so key is um
, there's no sense in in most ofmost pornography, of family.
This isn't about like I knowyou, I see you, I'm committed
myself to you.
It's just like I just got herewith a pizza and you turn me on
(20:33):
and so here we go.
Um, so they've taken out family.
They've certainly taken upmarriage and so much our media
does that too and with thatthey've also taken out
procreation.
So when you think about thebody and what it's saying or
what it's trying to tell you,it's trying to tell you things
about God's image, like how webear God's image, that include
things about family, thatinclude things about being seen
(20:54):
and loved, that include thingsabout commitment, that include
things about procreation.
So let me just pause there fora second.
What are you hearing?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, and all that is shaved away, all that becomes
this idealized body that willnever get pregnant or impregnate
, that will bring pleasure tothe people engaged and the
viewers, but like, not actuallythe seeing of, like the fullness
(21:25):
of that person, like caringabout the fact that you share
that terrible story last timeabout the adult porn star I'm
forgetting her name right nowMichelle, yeah, michelle, yeah.
And just how like she wasbrutalized, she was raped, she
was in pain and many of thosevideos that were just told to
(21:46):
keep on rolling and it's justlike, well, it doesn't matter
how you're feeling, like is thisbringing the people who are
going to watch pleasure?
It's so inverted from like Jesus, giving his body, like
suffering for the sake of hisbride, versus like I don't know,
demanding that people sufferfor him in a cruel way.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yes, all right, man, here we go and, friends, we
recognize the time here.
We're actually at a place wherewe need to land this plane.
So I'm going to just kind of dosome rapid fire, because what
James is talking about isessential guts the body, the
message of the body, of all itsfaculties, and makes it just
(22:34):
what it.
You know the pleasure it bringssomebody else through
appearance or through the sexualsatisfaction quote-unquote it
can bring it.
Guts it of family andcommitment and love and seeing
and being seen and self-giving,love and procreation.
Jesus again comes back to showus no, that's not what you are,
(22:55):
this is what you are.
And and James just just pointedto his words at the last supper
, when he breaks the bread andpours the wine and says this is
my body given for you, andcertainly Jesus' sacrifice on
the cross is something that wecan never, never.
That is, that was him and his,him alone that can do that.
(23:17):
And yet he is revealing for usthat our bodies are actually
designed to love like that.
So I like to put it this waywhat?
What is your body been tryingto tell you?
What is her body or his bodybeen trying to tell you?
It's been trying to tell youthat god is love and love is
self-giving.
Your body is trying to tell you.
Her body, his body, has beentrying to tell you god is love
(23:42):
and love is self-giving.
We are meant to be walking theearth with this constant
billboard, this message, thisicon in front of us all the time
, whenever we behold man orwoman, that God is love and love
is self-giving.
Love is designed to givehimself away for the good of the
other.
All right, friends.
(24:07):
So James had to drop off.
We ran out of time recordingtogether, but there's just too
much kind of in the marrow ofwhat we're talking about to stop
right there and we want to getthis recorded so we can get it
out to you.
So I'm just going to take a fewmore minutes, if you'll allow
me just to kind of unpack that alittle bit more, if you'll
(24:28):
allow me just to kind of unpackthat a little bit more.
We've been talking aboutlearning to see like Jesus sees,
and that we're that.
He sees differently than mostof us do, but we're meant to see
as he does, and so you can evenkind of muse on for a moment.
We've been talking aboutregards to man and a woman
bearing God's image, and howJesus, as he walked the earth
(24:49):
and saw women and saw men, hesaw those things that we don't
often see.
And so the woman caught inadultery or the immoral woman
washing his feet with her tears,could it be that some of the
love he felt and love he wasable to give them in those
moments was really rooted bothin seeing the individual person
(25:11):
there, in recognizing they got astory that's led them to this
place, and also him seeing howgod designed them and seeing
something of god's image in them, even twisted a little bit.
And I think we can see thething here about john three.
When it's John three, john four, sorry.
(25:31):
When Jesus talks to the woman ofSamaria, the woman at the well,
and she's expressing, throughher brokenness, these five, I
mean he sees this, he knows,kind of supernaturally, that
she's had five husbands andshe's now living with someone
who's not her husband, um, butshe is thirsty and he knows
she's thirsty and instead ofjust seeing the outward
appearance, he sees, I believeto the to the heart, that the
(25:55):
reason that she's been throughfive husbands, I mean assuming
that she had something to dowith the ending of the marriage.
It could have been that the guyended it.
It was easy in the middle Eastin that time and, I think, still
some places today for a womanjust to be discarded.
But why did she keep comingback?
Why did she keep going back todifferent men, including now a
man who's not even willing tomarry her?
And why did she come back tothe well?
(26:17):
Same reason because she'sthirsty for what she was made
for.
She was made for love.
She was made from love and forlove.
So what is her body, even herlonging, her sexual, romantic
longing that she feels in herbody, trying to tell her about
who she is, that God is love andthat love is self-giving.
(26:39):
This is what she's longing for.
In Jesus' conversation with herthere at the well, when he says
that's just who I am, I am theMessiah, he's really saying I'm
the one who can give you a neverending water that wells up and
will overflow.
And she's like that's what Iwant.
He's like, and I think inessence like, read through
between the lines.
He's like he's saying yes, Iknow, that's what you want,
(27:02):
that's what I see, even in yourbroken story.
I see that you are made inGod's image, for love.
You are made for that kind oflove.
So as we engage people'sstories, we recognize there's
more there going on under thesurface.
And as we look at ourselves andother men and other women,
(27:25):
we're meant to see something ofGod's image in them.
So ask yourself and begin so.
Last time we talked, I'll kindof wrap up here in them.
So ask yourself and begin so.
Last time we talked, I'll kindof wrap up here.
Last time we talked about how dowe grow more able to see as
Jesus sees?
Well, one, we pray, becausethis is a supernatural work.
It's not just something we canmuster on our own.
We pray.
If Jesus came to restore sightto the blind and lust is a form
of blindness then, lord, I wantto see.
(27:47):
Help me to see.
Do what only you can do.
You made my eyes in the firstplace.
Sin has blinded them.
Open my eyes againsupernaturally, to see as you
see.
We can pray that daily.
We can pray it moment by moment, we can pray it in moments of
temptation.
We can certainly even pray itjust over our lives in general
and for one another.
And then we also practice.
(28:09):
We practice seeing as Jesussees, and so last time we talked
about practicing seeing thereal person, seeing an element
of their story and kind oftelling ourselves the truth
about the person.
Here we can also practiceseeing how does this person or
how does this, this, this genderor that gender image God?
How does a woman's body imagegod?
(28:30):
What does her, what do hercurves and her soft skin, her
breasts and her genitals, hercapacity for procreation, what
is her the, the tone of hervoice, the tenor of her voice
communicate about god's love?
What is her nursing a childcommunicate?
What does her pregnancycommunicate?
What is her nursing a childcommunicate?
What is her pregnancycommunicate?
What is her ability to givebirth to a child communicate
(28:54):
about God as love, and God andlove is self-giving.
It's written all over her body,written all over her body.
One of the most beautifulplaces there in my mind is
childbirth, which I think mostwomen would agree, if they're
not medicated, would callexcruciating, and right in the
(29:14):
center of that word.
Excruciating is the word, isthe root word, crux, which means
cross.
Her childbirth is an image ofhow far she will go for love of
her child and it communicatessomething into the visible world
God's invisible love.
How far will he go out of lovefor his children.
(29:36):
Jesus talks about this in John 3, when he says to Nicodemus if
you want to enter the kingdom ofheaven, you must be born again.
And Nicodemus is just thinkingkind of on the earthly level.
He's like what do you mean?
Like I've got to enter mymother's womb again?
I can't do that.
And Jesus said no, no, no, no.
That's earthly.
You're flipping it upside down,nicodemus.
You're making God in your image.
(29:57):
It's the other way around.
You're made in God's image.
Woman and childbearing is madein God's image.
Jesus where did he experiencethe birth pangs that woman
experiences?
On the cross.
It was excruciating, but on thecross is where we are able to,
through faith, be born again.
(30:19):
It's because of his work on thecross.
Incidentally, I don't thinkthere's one element of the curse
that God articulates in Genesis3.
All the consequences of theirsin that he articulates to man
and woman you can find.
They point to, they imagesomething about what God is like
and what Jesus is going to do.
By the sweat of your brow,you're going to produce thorns
(30:42):
and thistles, he tells the man.
But what happens?
As Jesus is praying theexcruciating prayer in the
garden of Gethsemane, he'ssweating drops of blood.
What's placed on his headbefore he goes to the cross?
A crown of thorns?
I mean, this is just writtenall over these pages of
scripture.
Brothers and sisters, your bodyis telling us something about
(31:03):
what God is like and the lengthto which he will go in his love
for you, his love to be unitedwith you.
So as you look at a man's bodyas a woman's body, ask what is
this telling me?
What is a man's strength in hisupper body, his capacity for
greater muscle mass?
What is it telling In the fall,as we stand naked and ashamed
(31:25):
in front of each other?
His nakedness, his strength,his larger muscle mass is a
threat to human beings, a threatto other men who are weaker.
It's a threat to women, who maybe more vulnerable.
I'm not saying a blanketstatement about all women are
weaker than men.
I don't mean that.
But across the board, the waythat man is designed, man's body
and what happens withtestosterone that runs through a
(31:46):
male's body at puberty, musclemass has greater capacity for
muscle mass, has greatercapacity for bone density.
Stereotypically, acrosscultures, across time, men are
larger than women, and I saythat you can hear even my I feel
apologetic saying it becausewe're so familiar to it being a
(32:07):
threat, but in God's design it'snot.
It's meant to be a blessing.
Adam's body in front of Evebefore the fall was a blessing.
It was a gift to her.
He was meant to step in frontof the serpent and say no, and
he didn't.
He abdicated thatresponsibility.
But Jesus, our bridegroom, wentin front of the serpent and
(32:31):
said no.
He resisted temptation and heended up going to the cross.
So where Adam and Eve reachedout both of them and took and
ate that from the tree whichthey weren't designed to, our
Savior, our bridegroom, lethimself be stripped and naked
and shamed and hung on the tree,becoming a curse for us that we
(32:54):
might be restored to who wereally are designed to be.
And where they took and atewhat they weren't supposed to,
jesus comes expressing this iswhat a human's meant to be, and
he breaks the bread and poursthe wine and says this is my
body given for you.
Take and eat.
We are not designed to take andeat.
(33:17):
Devour one another.
We are meant to give ourselveslovingly to one another.
That's what love does.
That's what it means to be ahuman.
That's what God is like and inwhose image we are made.
Brothers and sisters, I hopethis has been helpful for you in
your desire to see as Jesussees.
(33:38):
He's given you your eyes thatyou would see as he sees, lord.
Lord, help us to see as you see.
Give us eyes to see what isreal and true and how we image
you.
Lord, we have traded our truevision for lust and loathing,
for treating others as objectsand obstacles.
(34:00):
But would you give us eyes tosee in hearts, to love like you
do, to see as we were designedto and redeemed to, and to love
with our bodies, as we weredesigned to and redeemed to, and
to love with our bodies as wewere designed to and redeemed to
, or we aspire for this.
Ignite the fire in us that wemight make ground in this area.
I pray it now in the name ofthe father, the son and holy
(34:22):
spirit, amen.
Hey friends, glad that you are back with us.
I want to start out by askingor by giving you a statement,
just to kind of sit with as westart.
And here's the statement yourbody has been trying to tell you
something.
Men's bodies have been tryingto tell you something.
Women's bodies have been tryingto tell you something.
(00:23):
All right, so welcome back tothis three-part series.
We're doing really kind ofunpacking these ideas.
First of all, that Jesus seesdifferently than most of us do,
the average person does, butwe're actually designed to see
as Jesus sees.
God intends for us to see asJesus sees.
And then, secondly, pornography.
(00:44):
Lust hides from us us.
It keeps us from seeing whatwe're intended to see, and we
unpacked that a little bit morelast week, even even beginning
to ask the question well, whatare we supposed to see?
So, james craig and myself,we're here to unpack this third
part.
Um, james, as we're, as we'regetting started, what's what
(01:05):
stands out to you?
As you've had a little bit oftime to digest the last couple
of weeks, what stands out to you?
That maybe would be a goodplace to begin today for you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think one of the things that really stuck out
from last week's episode wasthis idea of we often see people
as either objects or obstaclesand we often lust after objects
and loathe obstacles that are inour way versus this idea that
Jesus sees us as people, peoplethat he cares more about than
(01:37):
even the problems we cause.
Quite a paradigm shift there,recognizing both sides of how we
don't really see people the wayhe does.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, it was a helpful framework for me too and
even as we stopped recordinglast time and you were kind of
highlighting that, it is an easyplace for us to park and even
kind of hold up for ourselves ifwe're beginning to ask the
question like, well, how am Idoing in seeing like Jesus sees?
And we can kind of hold up thatthe mirror.
Am I seeing someone as anobstacle to my happiness?
(02:08):
Am I seeing someone as anobject for my happiness, for my
sexual pleasure?
Is a helpful place.
If that's the case and ifthat's all that we're seeing
there, then likely we have moreroom to grow and become
sanctified in seeing as Jesussees.
One of the quotes we shared atthe end of last episode was this
beautiful quote by John Paul IIwhere he says that the problem
(02:30):
with pornography is not that itshows too much, but rather that
it shows too little, and in thelast podcast we talked about
what that means in regards toseeing the person.
I want to dive into that again,but this time we're going to
kind of look at it, at it from adifferent angle and I think
maybe even more of the anglethat John Paul II had in mind,
(02:51):
or at least what he part of whathe wanted to unfold for us with
that and and that's that'swhere we come into this this
question of what has your body,or his body or her body, been
trying to tell you?
So to begin, we have to go toGenesis 1.
And I want to point somethingout that maybe you haven't ever
(03:13):
noticed before, listeners,because in Genesis 1, we read
this creation account, the firstcreation account scripture
gives us, and through it thereare these God creates everything
that we know.
He creates the material world.
God, who is spirit, creates thematerial world, anything from
the sun and the moon, the stars,the planet earth, the waters,
(03:34):
the animals, the creatures inthe earth, the creatures that
creep in the earth, thecreatures that fly over the
earth, the creatures that swimin the waters, the deserts, the
mountains Just use yourimagination, kind of scan the
earth.
And then on day six, thepassage kind of takes a sharp
turn, because then God speaksaloud to and theologians would
(03:57):
suggest that he either speaks tothe kind of the heavenly court
or he's even speaking kind of tohimself, and christian
theologians might, might say,well, that's maybe even a hint
there, of him speaking um,father, son, holy spirit, kind
of speaking to to himself, butsays this amazing phrase let us
create humankind in our image.
(04:18):
And so he does.
And the first, so I kind ofalways imagine, like all of
creation leaning in here, theangels, the other creatures on
the earth leaning in and go like, okay, well, all of this is
amazing.
I mean, it's hard to look atthe ocean without thinking
you're getting some sense ofGod's depth and grandeur.
The mountains, the same thing.
(04:39):
A lion, the same thing.
A lamb, perhaps somethingdifferent than that.
The sun, something differentthan that.
These all express God in someway.
But he doesn't say about any ofthose things that they're
created in his image andlikeness, like this last
creature, like he said aboutthis last creature, so, kind of
imagine all creation leaning inand be like, well, what's unique
about this creature made inGod's image?
(05:00):
And there's one attributethat's listed, the first
attribute that was listed in thefirst chapter of the first book
of the Bible, about this onecreature created in God's image
is male and female.
He created them.
And then the first.
Well, let me just pause therefor a moment James, what does
(05:23):
that do the average person to?
To wrestle with that, to reckonwith that, to drink that in, do
you think?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think it's especially interesting in our
culture that male and female aregiven this kind of fundamental
place in the image, bearing bothtogether, as, like male and
female, he created them like,imaging him together, god, who
is spirit and they're.
You know, it's like it's it'shard to even wrap my mind around
but also just the idea thatthat's given really core.
(05:53):
It's given a core like, if madein the image of god's, kind of
the center of our identity, theabsolute center, like it sounds
to my ears, like male and femaleare right right there after
that, you know, just likefundamental, maybe even with
that.
So there's something kind ofinteresting about that and, um,
I'm not sure if maybe our worldappreciates that in the way I
(06:16):
don't know if it ever did, butum, it's just interesting to
think about as all kinds ofissues around, um, kind of
thinking ourselves intoexistence and dissociating from
our bodies or our like, matter,even like science.
You know the irony of manypeople who would kind of
prescribe to scientism, like theidea that science is all there
(06:38):
is and everything can beexplained by science, are often
those who might reject orstruggle with and we all might
struggle with this to someextent um, the fact that we have
these material bodies that canfeel pain and are gendered and
are um distinct from one anotheryeah, yeah, yeah it, it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It's interesting, uh, when I was in seminary not that
long ago, when we studied thispassage and looked up
commentaries that would talkabout you know what does this
mean?
That we're made in the image ofGod, and for centuries up to
current day, there's very littlewritten about male and female.
He created them.
(07:21):
There's a lot about freedom,there's a lot about relationship
, maybe the relation,relationality of human beings,
but nothing specific about theirembodiedness as male and female
, even though it's right therein the text, which I, I would
suggest, may, may have more todo with our own discomfort with
male and female.
We'll get into that a littlebit in a minute than it does
with what scripture actuallyreveals there.
(07:42):
And I owe I think our presentday owes Christianity, the
Christian church owes a debt ofgratitude, I think, to Pope John
Paul II, the late Pope JohnPaul II, and how he helped to
unpack this and put a lens onthis in a way that really is
needful in this day and age, andI think that'll become more
(08:06):
clear as we, as we move forwardtoday.
Um, and there's more um, we'llsit.
So let me couple clarifyingpoints.
Number one uh, we're not in anyway suggesting that the
scriptures are teaching that Godis male or female, or male and
female.
God is not, he is, he is spirit.
That's to make, uh, god in ourimage rather than us being made
(08:26):
in his image.
There's what we are saying is,there's something about manhood
and something about womanhood asexpressed in the body of man
and woman that gives visibleexpression to the invisible
attributes of our spiritual God.
Um, what those are, I'm goingto leave for for you to muse on
as we, as we talk through this,but I think you might begin to
(08:46):
get some pictures as we goforward.
I also want to highlight that ifthat's the first attribute,
notice also the first commandgiven to this creature, the
first command given thiscreature, the first attribute is
male and female created.
The first command is befruitful and multiply and fill
the earth and and then afterthat he says and rule over it
(09:08):
and subdue it.
Interestingly again, inseminary I I it was more common
to read anybody talking aboutyep, they're given dominion over
the earth.
They were like this is whatmankind does, humankind does.
Hardly anybody said anythingabout be fruitful, multiply.
I was like wait, what are youdoing?
It's right there.
It's the first command.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's kind of wild.
You'd almost think like thefirst command might be like be
good or like love each other andlove me, but the first command
is literally have a lot of sex.
It's kind of wild.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, well, actually, james, I would, and we're going
to get into this, but I wouldsuggest that that what you're
pointing out there, like wewould suspect, the first command
would be love, or love.
Like me, I think that isexactly what this text is saying
, and we're going to get intothat a little bit, but it's, but
it's.
I think one of the again, oneof the reasons we move away from
(10:01):
be fruitful and multiply isbecause we've been so disrupted.
Our eyes don't see clearly whowe are, what we are.
So we we have this even a we'vebeen more trained by
pornography about, and we're ina pornographied culture about
what sex is and what it means tobe fruitful and multiply, than
we have by by by the eyes of Godlooking at us naked and
(10:24):
unashamed as men and as women.
Just to hammer this point homea little bit more, let's go to
Genesis 3.
When Adam and Eve fall, thefirst consequence of the fall,
or at least their first reactionto the fall, is to you remember
(10:46):
it, james, eyed right, yeah,and specifically, they sew fig
leaves together to cover theirloin, like their loin covering.
So they're covering theirgenitals, they're covering what
makes them distinct as man andwoman.
So to my eye, this is all overthe creation account and all
(11:06):
over genesis one, two and three,where we take a first look at
what a human person is.
And when adam and eve unpluggedfrom the spirit of god through
their disobedience, somethingwent sideways in regards to how,
how they felt about and howthey understood and saw each
other as image bearers of god.
One way I like to say it isthat what had been a blessing in
(11:32):
their nakedness andunashamedness, their ability to
become Genesis 2, for thisreason, each other, and to honor
and dignify each other withtheir, with their, with their
(11:55):
eyes, um, something happened.
I, I, I kind of this isinference, or I'm kind of
speculating here, but kind ofwonder if, if, before, when,
when adam and looked upon eve,uh, before the fall, if she just
felt seen and blessed and evenlike she knew herself and what
she was and who she was, morebecause of the way that he
(12:18):
looked at her and felt safe andgood and beautiful and honored
and, um, full of dignity and andlike him and yet different from
him and vice versa, and yetdifferent from him and vice
versa.
He felt that way as she lookedat him.
But after the fall.
Now, when she feels his eyes onher, something's different, and
(12:41):
when he feels her eyes on him,something is different.
And when they, going forward inGenesis 3, feel the presence of
the Lord coming near, hear himcoming near and consider that
he's going to be looking on them, what had been blessing in
their nakedness now becomesincredible terror and they run
to hide from him.
Um, and how stark that contrastfrom where we ended the last
(13:03):
podcast with the idea of umbeing seen by Jesus and the
actual ways he looked on us,even in our sin.
So respond to that a little bit.
What?
What was percolating over thereas you're hearing that one?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
of the things that strikes me is that there's not
actually anyone else there likeis it them?
The serpent, right and I meanin some sense God wasn't like
manifestly present, right,because he kind of enters the
scene in the next little bit butit's even just with the two of
them that they felt like theyhad to hide their nakedness, at
(13:38):
least that's how the narrativeseems to portray it.
So it just strikes me that,like you're saying, it's not
just about hiding from othersyou know, like you wouldn't want
to be seen naked out on thestreet or whatever but it's like
from each other, as you know,husband and wife, from almost
like from themselves, like evenindividually maybe yeah, yeah,
(13:59):
and I think I actually thinklike even in in those one-to-one
settings between husband andwife.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
so let's just talk about husband and wife for a
minute, because these are twopeople who we would assume um
have committed to each other,love each other, want to be with
each other.
They've made lifelong vows tobe together and yet I would, I
would suggest that most of ourlisteners who are married would
say they, they are, they arefamiliar with shame in their
(14:28):
nakedness with their spouse.
They are familiar withdiscomfort or questions of how
do I compare to other peoplethat he sees or that she sees?
Am I pleasing to him or her?
What about when we get older?
What about after I've hadbabies?
What about when I lose my job?
(14:48):
What about when I lose mytemper?
Like, what is it like to benaked in front of her or him?
Then I think we're reallyfamiliar with this experience of
shame and how shame makes usfeel, almost like we are
rewinding to before Adam and Evecame together.
So before they came together,adam was alone and had that
(15:11):
sense of being alone, and Ithink that shame has a way to
kind of cast us back into thatkind of darkness of even with
somebody feeling like we'realone most like shame is.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
If we're talking about this theme of really
seeing someone.
Shame is like feeling notreally seen.
Maybe you you looked at, maybeyou know stuff about me, but
like either I can't let youreally see me, cause what are
you, how are you going torespond to that?
Or I don't feel like you'rereally seeing me right now.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, yeah, or maybe I'd add to that, maybe you'd
agree, like the way that I seemyself is is means it's bad news
for you to see me.
So maybe, maybe for some peopleit's like yeah, um, you know, I
feel like you're, you're seeingme, but the way that you're
(16:02):
seeing me feels like you'rereally not seeing me.
And then for others there's afeeling of like, yeah, I, the
way I see, like I don't want youto see me.
Um and I, and I think I've I'vetalked in my work here at
region.
I've talked to people who kindof fall in both those camps.
I know, um, given a talk to agroup of parents about some of
(16:24):
this stuff, and this woman cameto me afterwards which is not
uncommon for people to kind ofpull me aside and want a little
private conversation and justsaying, man, I don't feel safe
or loved with my husband in ourmarriage bed.
I feel like he's using me, notloving me, and this is a part of
(16:47):
the intimate place of we'remade to.
We're meant to see like Jesussees.
He is revealing to us what ahuman person is meant to of,
like the intimate place of wewant.
When we're made to, we're meantto see, like jesus sees.
He is revealing to us what ahuman person is meant to see.
Like um and this, this, that,in comparison, that's even in
the marriage bedroom, comparedto like jesus with the woman,
the immoral woman.
It's I'm the pharisee, it'scalled a sinner, but Jesus saw
(17:10):
as this beloved woman who lovedvery much.
All right, so let's keep going,though, because we got, we have
limited time.
I want to come back to this ideaof what her body is trying to
tell you.
So, and I want to, I want toget there by kind of going the
other way.
I want to compare it to likewhat we actually see, or what
our pornographied culture hastaught us to see.
(17:32):
Our sexualized media has taughtus to see when we see another
person and then kind of flipthat on its head as we're
thinking about how we image God.
So one of the things I'venoticed over the years about
pornography or sexualized mediaare some of the things that are
missing from the media.
Are some of the things that aremissing from the media?
(17:53):
First of all, like you know,like human being, like you know,
it's kind of the idealized,quote-unquote idealized body
type, usually not a lot ofspectrum there.
There's usually, like you know,the woman looks just, and it's
especially hard on women, and somany young women are like, just
(18:13):
being brutalized by the imagesput in front of them.
I'm like this is what a realwoman is and this is what a good
body is.
A good body looks like this.
But men are experienced thattoo.
I was just talking to a coupleof young guys this last week who
were expressing like one waslike man, I just feel like, you
know, my body's not very goodbecause I'm overweight.
And the other guy was like Ifeel like my body's not very
good Cause it's really skinny.
Um, but notice what's missingthere.
(18:33):
Like the whole realm of likewhat makes a good body is just
wrapped up in some I don't knowwhere it came from, but some
picture of like it has to looklike this.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's pretty different than even a couple hundred
years ago.
Like the most fashionableQueens or kings look pretty
different than what we mightidealize in some ways today yeah
, which just suggests likesomething's missing.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Um, but it's also what the other thing that we're
missing with that is like.
Your body is not just how itappears to other people.
Your body includes all yourfaculties to engage the world
your sense of smell, yourability to hear, your ability to
taste, your ability to touch,um.
So the idea that we'vetruncated what makes a good body
(19:21):
to how it appears to otherpeople or to kind of get back
into the conversation we've beenhaving, how other people, how
your body makes other peoplefeel that's's the, you know,
like lust or loathing rightVersus my body is how I hold my
daughter.
My body is the only way I canhold my daughter.
(19:43):
My body is how I get to see mywife.
My body is how I get to hearwhat you're saying to me right
now, james, and how I get totake in the nuances and insights
that you bring to thisconversation.
That's all thanks to my body,which is very good.
So the pornographied,sexualized media dismisses all
(20:04):
that.
None of that matters.
It's just how you make me feel,um.
Second thing I think that'smissing and this is so key is um
, there's no sense in in most ofmost pornography, of family.
This isn't about like I knowyou, I see you, I'm committed
myself to you.
It's just like I just got herewith a pizza and you turn me on
(20:33):
and so here we go.
Um, so they've taken out family.
They've certainly taken upmarriage and so much our media
does that too and with thatthey've also taken out
procreation.
So when you think about thebody and what it's saying or
what it's trying to tell you,it's trying to tell you things
about God's image, like how webear God's image, that include
things about family, thatinclude things about being seen
(20:54):
and loved, that include thingsabout commitment, that include
things about procreation.
So let me just pause there fora second.
What are you hearing?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, and all that is shaved away, all that becomes
this idealized body that willnever get pregnant or impregnate
, that will bring pleasure tothe people engaged and the
viewers, but like, not actuallythe seeing of, like the fullness
(21:25):
of that person, like caringabout the fact that you share
that terrible story last timeabout the adult porn star I'm
forgetting her name right nowMichelle, yeah, michelle, yeah.
And just how like she wasbrutalized, she was raped, she
was in pain and many of thosevideos that were just told to
(21:46):
keep on rolling and it's justlike, well, it doesn't matter
how you're feeling, like is thisbringing the people who are
going to watch pleasure?
It's so inverted from like Jesus, giving his body, like
suffering for the sake of hisbride, versus like I don't know,
demanding that people sufferfor him in a cruel way.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yes, all right, man, here we go and, friends, we
recognize the time here.
We're actually at a place wherewe need to land this plane.
So I'm going to just kind of dosome rapid fire, because what
James is talking about isessential guts the body, the
message of the body, of all itsfaculties, and makes it just
(22:34):
what it.
You know the pleasure it bringssomebody else through
appearance or through the sexualsatisfaction quote-unquote it
can bring it.
Guts it of family andcommitment and love and seeing
and being seen and self-giving,love and procreation.
Jesus again comes back to showus no, that's not what you are,
(22:55):
this is what you are.
And and James just just pointedto his words at the last supper
, when he breaks the bread andpours the wine and says this is
my body given for you, andcertainly Jesus' sacrifice on
the cross is something that wecan never, never.
That is, that was him and his,him alone that can do that.
(23:17):
And yet he is revealing for usthat our bodies are actually
designed to love like that.
So I like to put it this waywhat?
What is your body been tryingto tell you?
What is her body or his bodybeen trying to tell you?
It's been trying to tell youthat god is love and love is
self-giving.
Your body is trying to tell you.
Her body, his body, has beentrying to tell you god is love
(23:42):
and love is self-giving.
We are meant to be walking theearth with this constant
billboard, this message, thisicon in front of us all the time
, whenever we behold man orwoman, that God is love and love
is self-giving.
Love is designed to givehimself away for the good of the
other.
All right, friends.
(24:07):
So James had to drop off.
We ran out of time recordingtogether, but there's just too
much kind of in the marrow ofwhat we're talking about to stop
right there and we want to getthis recorded so we can get it
out to you.
So I'm just going to take a fewmore minutes, if you'll allow
me just to kind of unpack that alittle bit more, if you'll
(24:28):
allow me just to kind of unpackthat a little bit more.
We've been talking aboutlearning to see like Jesus sees,
and that we're that.
He sees differently than mostof us do, but we're meant to see
as he does, and so you can evenkind of muse on for a moment.
We've been talking aboutregards to man and a woman
bearing God's image, and howJesus, as he walked the earth
(24:49):
and saw women and saw men, hesaw those things that we don't
often see.
And so the woman caught inadultery or the immoral woman
washing his feet with her tears,could it be that some of the
love he felt and love he wasable to give them in those
moments was really rooted bothin seeing the individual person
(25:11):
there, in recognizing they got astory that's led them to this
place, and also him seeing howgod designed them and seeing
something of god's image in them, even twisted a little bit.
And I think we can see thething here about john three.
When it's John three, john four, sorry.
(25:31):
When Jesus talks to the woman ofSamaria, the woman at the well,
and she's expressing, throughher brokenness, these five, I
mean he sees this, he knows,kind of supernaturally, that
she's had five husbands andshe's now living with someone
who's not her husband, um, butshe is thirsty and he knows
she's thirsty and instead ofjust seeing the outward
appearance, he sees, I believeto the to the heart, that the
(25:55):
reason that she's been throughfive husbands, I mean assuming
that she had something to dowith the ending of the marriage.
It could have been that the guyended it.
It was easy in the middle Eastin that time and, I think, still
some places today for a womanjust to be discarded.
But why did she keep comingback?
Why did she keep going back todifferent men, including now a
man who's not even willing tomarry her?
And why did she come back tothe well?
(26:17):
Same reason because she'sthirsty for what she was made
for.
She was made for love.
She was made from love and forlove.
So what is her body, even herlonging, her sexual, romantic
longing that she feels in herbody, trying to tell her about
who she is, that God is love andthat love is self-giving.
(26:39):
This is what she's longing for.
In Jesus' conversation with herthere at the well, when he says
that's just who I am, I am theMessiah, he's really saying I'm
the one who can give you a neverending water that wells up and
will overflow.
And she's like that's what Iwant.
He's like, and I think inessence like, read through
between the lines.
He's like he's saying yes, Iknow, that's what you want,
(27:02):
that's what I see, even in yourbroken story.
I see that you are made inGod's image, for love.
You are made for that kind oflove.
So as we engage people'sstories, we recognize there's
more there going on under thesurface.
And as we look at ourselves andother men and other women,
(27:25):
we're meant to see something ofGod's image in them.
So ask yourself and begin so.
Last time we talked, I'll kindof wrap up here in them.
So ask yourself and begin so.
Last time we talked, I'll kindof wrap up here.
Last time we talked about how dowe grow more able to see as
Jesus sees?
Well, one, we pray, becausethis is a supernatural work.
It's not just something we canmuster on our own.
We pray.
If Jesus came to restore sightto the blind and lust is a form
of blindness then, lord, I wantto see.
(27:47):
Help me to see.
Do what only you can do.
You made my eyes in the firstplace.
Sin has blinded them.
Open my eyes againsupernaturally, to see as you
see.
We can pray that daily.
We can pray it moment by moment, we can pray it in moments of
temptation.
We can certainly even pray itjust over our lives in general
and for one another.
And then we also practice.
(28:09):
We practice seeing as Jesussees, and so last time we talked
about practicing seeing thereal person, seeing an element
of their story and kind oftelling ourselves the truth
about the person.
Here we can also practiceseeing how does this person or
how does this, this, this genderor that gender image God?
How does a woman's body imagegod?
(28:30):
What does her, what do hercurves and her soft skin, her
breasts and her genitals, hercapacity for procreation, what
is her the, the tone of hervoice, the tenor of her voice
communicate about god's love?
What is her nursing a childcommunicate?
What does her pregnancycommunicate?
What is her nursing a childcommunicate?
What is her pregnancycommunicate?
What is her ability to givebirth to a child communicate
(28:54):
about God as love, and God andlove is self-giving.
It's written all over her body,written all over her body.
One of the most beautifulplaces there in my mind is
childbirth, which I think mostwomen would agree, if they're
not medicated, would callexcruciating, and right in the
(29:14):
center of that word.
Excruciating is the word, isthe root word, crux, which means
cross.
Her childbirth is an image ofhow far she will go for love of
her child and it communicatessomething into the visible world
God's invisible love.
How far will he go out of lovefor his children.
(29:36):
Jesus talks about this in John 3, when he says to Nicodemus if
you want to enter the kingdom ofheaven, you must be born again.
And Nicodemus is just thinkingkind of on the earthly level.
He's like what do you mean?
Like I've got to enter mymother's womb again?
I can't do that.
And Jesus said no, no, no, no.
That's earthly.
You're flipping it upside down,nicodemus.
You're making God in your image.
(29:57):
It's the other way around.
You're made in God's image.
Woman and childbearing is madein God's image.
Jesus where did he experiencethe birth pangs that woman
experiences?
On the cross.
It was excruciating, but on thecross is where we are able to,
through faith, be born again.
(30:19):
It's because of his work on thecross.
Incidentally, I don't thinkthere's one element of the curse
that God articulates in Genesis3.
All the consequences of theirsin that he articulates to man
and woman you can find.
They point to, they imagesomething about what God is like
and what Jesus is going to do.
By the sweat of your brow,you're going to produce thorns
(30:42):
and thistles, he tells the man.
But what happens?
As Jesus is praying theexcruciating prayer in the
garden of Gethsemane, he'ssweating drops of blood.
What's placed on his headbefore he goes to the cross?
A crown of thorns?
I mean, this is just writtenall over these pages of
scripture.
Brothers and sisters, your bodyis telling us something about
(31:03):
what God is like and the lengthto which he will go in his love
for you, his love to be unitedwith you.
So as you look at a man's bodyas a woman's body, ask what is
this telling me?
What is a man's strength in hisupper body, his capacity for
greater muscle mass?
What is it telling In the fall,as we stand naked and ashamed
(31:25):
in front of each other?
His nakedness, his strength,his larger muscle mass is a
threat to human beings, a threatto other men who are weaker.
It's a threat to women, who maybe more vulnerable.
I'm not saying a blanketstatement about all women are
weaker than men.
I don't mean that.
But across the board, the waythat man is designed, man's body
and what happens withtestosterone that runs through a
(31:46):
male's body at puberty, musclemass has greater capacity for
muscle mass, has greatercapacity for bone density.
Stereotypically, acrosscultures, across time, men are
larger than women, and I saythat you can hear even my I feel
apologetic saying it becausewe're so familiar to it being a
(32:07):
threat, but in God's design it'snot.
It's meant to be a blessing.
Adam's body in front of Evebefore the fall was a blessing.
It was a gift to her.
He was meant to step in frontof the serpent and say no, and
he didn't.
He abdicated thatresponsibility.
But Jesus, our bridegroom, wentin front of the serpent and
(32:31):
said no.
He resisted temptation and heended up going to the cross.
So where Adam and Eve reachedout both of them and took and
ate that from the tree whichthey weren't designed to, our
Savior, our bridegroom, lethimself be stripped and naked
and shamed and hung on the tree,becoming a curse for us that we
(32:54):
might be restored to who wereally are designed to be.
And where they took and atewhat they weren't supposed to,
jesus comes expressing this iswhat a human's meant to be, and
he breaks the bread and poursthe wine and says this is my
body given for you.
Take and eat.
We are not designed to take andeat.
(33:17):
Devour one another.
We are meant to give ourselveslovingly to one another.
That's what love does.
That's what it means to be ahuman.
That's what God is like and inwhose image we are made.
Brothers and sisters, I hopethis has been helpful for you in
your desire to see as Jesussees.
(33:38):
He's given you your eyes thatyou would see as he sees, lord.
Lord, help us to see as you see.
Give us eyes to see what isreal and true and how we image
you.
Lord, we have traded our truevision for lust and loathing,
for treating others as objectsand obstacles.
(34:00):
But would you give us eyes tosee in hearts, to love like you
do, to see as we were designedto and redeemed to, and to love
with our bodies, as we weredesigned to and redeemed to, and
to love with our bodies as wewere designed to and redeemed to
, or we aspire for this.
Ignite the fire in us that wemight make ground in this area.
I pray it now in the name ofthe father, the son and holy
(34:22):
spirit, amen.
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