Have you ever found yourself struggling with unwanted sexual fantasies, attractions, or fetishes, and wondered how to overcome them?
Our conversation with Drew Boa, founder of Husband Material, offers powerful insights and practical steps to help you heal and understand these complex issues.
Join us as we discuss befriending our sexual thoughts and feelings instead of trying to get rid of them, and how God can speak to us through these different parts of us.
We'll also explore the intriguing connection between fear and sexuality, including the physical effects of fear on our bodies and how arousal and pleasure pathways can shed light on the development of our sexual preferences.
Don't miss this transformative and thought-provoking conversation with Drew Boa as he shares his personal journey of healing and freedom from the shame associated with his own sexual fantasies, offering hope and guidance for those struggling with their own unwanted attractions.
More online at The Fantasy Framework
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:00):
We're going to dive in, but let me just say what I said
a minute ago, drew, which is I'mreally excited to talk with you
And, for those of you don'tknow you, a couple of things
about you.
One is you are the founder, andis it Grand Puba?
Is that how you say it?
Leader, head coach maybe Thereyou go, a husband material which
(00:23):
can be found athusbandmaterialcom Yes, if you
don't know Drew and husbandmaterial, go there.
It's a beautiful, growingcommunity of men who either are
husbands, maybe desire to behusbands, but nonetheless want
to be the kind of material of aman, to be a good husband.
Drew (00:41):
Right.
So single, dating or married,we are becoming husband material
, which means sexually andemotionally mature men of God.
Josh (00:51):
Love it, love it Good.
And today, specifically, we'regoing to talk about how you help
men really decipher theirfantasies so that they don't
keep pulling them under andpulling them towards the sexual,
the animal and sexual behavior,whatever it is for them.
I mean, how do you, as you're,instead of me, trying to frame
(01:13):
it up for our listeners, how doyou frame this up as you're
coaching guys to begin this kindof work?
Drew (01:20):
Well, we all have unwanted sexual attraction of some kind
or another.
Whether you think you havefantasies or not, there are very
specific things that turn us onand that turn us off, and
(01:42):
sometimes what we wish turned uson doesn't, and sometimes what
we wish didn't turn us on does.
And that's my story.
Especially when I hit pubertyand started using pornography
and masturbating, i got stuck ina sexual fetish for braces and
(02:07):
orthodontics that I neverunderstood And I never told
anyone.
I was extremely ashamed aboutit And that was really the deep,
dark pull that never went away.
Even after I had gained a lot offreedom from my behavior, porn
(02:30):
still had power over me becauseof those fantasies and because
of that fetish.
So we need to be able to stripporn of its seductive power if
we want lasting freedom and ifwe want to get to the point
where it just doesn't appeal toyou anymore.
I know that might soundimpossible, but that's what I've
(02:53):
experienced.
I know you have experiencedmuch of the same and we've
learned a lot from our mutualfriend Jay Stringer about this
topic.
And there's so much hope whenwhat we are attracted to no
longer controls us anymore.
Josh (03:08):
Yeah, and the connection between shame and control is
something that I think willprobably become a little more
clear for guys as we get into it.
Men and women can benefit fromthis.
But true, and what you'retalking about too, is you
describe having a fetish Otherpeople.
They may not recognize whatevertheir sexual arousal or their
(03:32):
fantasy as a fetish, but itdoesn't matter, because really I
mean part of what unplugged thepower of shame from whatever
the unwanted attraction is,whether it's to a specific body
part or a specific scenario, ora specific gender or ethnicity,
etc.
Drew (03:52):
Age older people, younger people.
Josh (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, there's still connections to be made that can
help to unplug that sexualarousal kind of movement from
the stuff that got us there inthe first place.
Drew (04:08):
Yes, and we need to be very clear that the goal is
never to remove sexualattraction or to try to change
it in any way.
That would be unethical andeven unhelpful.
Our goal is to understand Sothat we can heal.
Josh (04:25):
So when you think about so , i use the phrase unplug and
I'm thinking kind of unplug thepower of it, the draw of it, but
just say a little bit moreabout like, because there are
people listening, going likewait a minute.
Like I actually want to get ridof this attraction, drew.
Didn't you want to get rid ofthis, the draw of braces and
orthodontics And are you sayingthat I can't be free from that
Like?
just unpack that a little bit.
(04:46):
Like, what is?
what's the difference betweengetting rid of it and no longer
being controlled by it oroverpowered by it?
Drew (04:53):
Well, to borrow a concept from internal family systems,
the sexual attraction andfantasy, whatever it is, is a
part of you And it is a partthat maybe has been
(05:14):
misunderstood, it's beenrepressed, it's been ignored,
it's been attacked.
When you get to know this partof you, you will find out where
it came from and why it's thereand what it really has to offer
(05:35):
you.
God can speak to us throughthese different parts of us And
if we neglect them, we miss outon what he has to teach us.
And, as you know, the more weresist, the more we try to
remove these things, thestronger they become.
It only gives them more powerwhen we try harder and harder to
(05:58):
get rid of them.
So here's the big differencebetween what I'm suggesting and
what the typical approach tofreedom from porn promotes.
Normally, in a lot of programsor other ministries that focus
on trying to help people getfree from porn, they are all
(06:18):
about fighting a battle,battling your sexual thoughts
and feelings.
I'm asking you to befriend yoursexual thoughts and feelings.
Stop battling, startbefriending.
That doesn't mean you let themgo wherever they want.
(06:38):
It also doesn't mean you try toget rid of them.
You befriend them like youwould befriend a little child,
because the truth is, underneaththese unwanted attractions,
that part of you is young.
There is a part of you thatdidn't get what you needed and
(07:01):
then sexualized it to get asymbol of it or a version of it
that became extremely attractiveand powerful.
So, rather than the militaryapproach, we're going to take
the Mr Rogers approach.
I don't know if you can see mylittle Mr Rogers figurine, but
(07:21):
Mr Rogers was all about lovingand accepting you exactly as you
are.
It was an approach oftenderness rather than toughness
, and that is what allows ouryoung parts to grow up.
Josh (07:42):
And I think people listening or watching will get
Like, let me just say this Ifyou're listening or watching and
you're thinking I'm notcomfortable with this, we're
talking about sin here, we'vegot to get after this stuff,
just hold on, hold on.
I think you'll understand moreof what Drew's saying If I could
point to a couple of scripturalplaces that might help you to
(08:03):
hold on and willing suspensionto disbelief.
One would be think about Jesuswith the woman at the well who
had a sordid past.
We don't know if it was done toher that she did it, but she
was ostracized and really lookedat as immoral And that's how
people treated her.
They were harsh toward her Andwe can surmise that from where
she was drawing water at thewell in the middle of the day,
(08:25):
which was not a time that peopledid that And Jesus' approach to
her was really to appeal to herthirst.
He was interested.
He told of the truth, aboutwhat she had done or what her
situation was, but he was alsovery, he was tender with her and
he lowered himself, asking herfor a drink, giving her a
position of power and appealingto her thirst, trying to draw.
I mean, this is such abeautiful moment.
(08:47):
He wants her to draw water fromthe well.
He's wanting to draw her thirstout of her, and I think you'll
see that in Drew.
The other thing I'm stillplaying with this idea but I
haven't found the source forthis.
But I understand that Aquinastaught that the deepest desire,
the root of every desire, isactually love, meaning that God
(09:07):
has made us for love, and soeven our errant desires, our
desires that point us in allsorts of different directions,
the reason they even have anypowers, because deep, deep down
inside that tap root is actuallya desire for love an desire to
love and to be loved, and Ithink you'll hear that more in
what Drew's about to say.
So keep track.
So, drew, let's dive in with.
(09:29):
So you have three.
Let's see You describe them asthree points of suffering that
fantasy tries to resolve.
So can you take us into thefirst one of those?
Drew (09:46):
Yeah.
So what is a fantasy?
A fantasy, whether sexual ornot, is asking the question what
if?
What if animals could talk?
What if death is not the end?
What if we could travel intoouter space?
And a sexual fantasy is a wayof taking our suffering and
(10:06):
asking well, what if that couldbecome something good?
What if I can take all thethings I don't want or like in
my life and transform them Andwe have a magic wand and say
poof, now you're somethingdifferent.
And I think our sexualfantasies do that.
They turn fear into safety,shame into glory and loss into
(10:30):
connection.
So the first one is our sexualfantasies turn fear into safety.
This one, yeah.
Can I stop you real quick?
Josh (10:46):
Oh yeah.
So just to jump in real quick,just as an illustration, that
idea of fantasy and I think youguys, everybody listening, you
can recognize this, you canrecognize that this is already a
reality When you're a kid.
Just think about the times likethere's a bully at school and
you went home and you pretendedto beat up the bully or you
(11:09):
pretended to be a superhero.
I mean you're using fantasy totry to enter in, to try to redo
something, to try to.
I mean maybe that wouldn't evenclick.
So that's the first one,turning fear into safety.
So that's it.
Yeah, This is already a presentreality in your life in all
areas of fantasy, and it'sequally true in your sexual
fantasy.
So yeah, so yeah.
(11:29):
Sorry to interrupt, i wanted tojust kind of.
Drew (11:34):
That's a great example.
So let's say you were bulliedas a boy.
Maybe you have a sexual fantasyof putting you in the position
of power.
You're the one who gets todecide what happens.
You're the one who has a voiceand a choice.
So that is reversing thedynamic of you being powerless,
(12:01):
you being dominated, and forsome men that experience of
bullying can translate intobeing attracted to a strong,
powerful type of person, apowerful man who has a strong
body, who can protect you, orthe kind of man you would want
(12:22):
to be so that you can protectyourself For others.
Maybe you developed a negativeassociation with men and were
drawn to lesbian porn.
There are no men in this sexualfantasy because for a man to be
in it takes away safety.
So every sexual fantasy hassome kind of safety valve where
(12:48):
a certain part of it means thatI'm safe, whether I'm the one in
power or the people who hurt meare not part of it.
Or perhaps it's not just aone-on-one sexual fantasy but
it's a threesome, because ifthere's more than one person
then it's less likely that I'llbe rejected, it's less
(13:09):
vulnerable.
Maybe there's an aspect ofvoyeurism.
I think all porn is voyeuristicin the sense that you're looking
into something that you're nota part of, and when you're in
voyeurism, you get to be theobserver, so it's keeping you
safe from having to be involved.
It keeps you a little bit moredistant.
(13:31):
So if you want to discover howmight my specific sexual fantasy
be providing a version ofsafety, ask yourself when you
were younger, how were youharmed?
What were you afraid of?
Is it possible that thisfantasy could be protecting you
(13:57):
from whatever that was?
And for some they might saywell, my sexual fantasy involves
me being harmed, and in thatcase we have to learn more to
really understand what's goingon.
But in general, imaginingsomething as a fantasy gives you
(14:17):
a level of choice and controlthat you would not have had
whenever you were being harmed.
So it could be just the factthat fantasizing about this,
about this horrific harm thathappened, still gives you a bit
of distance from it and allowsyou to remember it, but be safe
from it.
Josh (14:38):
Yeah, that's really powerful Part of my story.
Voyeurism was a huge area offantasy for me and a part of my
struggle and even a part of thepornography that I would look at
, And doing this kind of workhelped me to connect some dots
between.
There was a specific moment injunior high in the locker room
(14:59):
where I was exposed and veryashamed, terribly scared and
deeply humiliated And I thoughtit was going to be something
that just spread through theschool.
Yeah, a guy was making fun ofme and even came up to the
lunchroom table when I wassitting with my friends
(15:20):
afterwards and was just like wegot to tell everybody in the
school about this And I was justlike, oh my God, I'm not going
to be able to go back to theschool.
Never made a connection untilbeginning this kind of work to
recognize like, oh, it's saferfor me to be the one on the
outside who's looking in, Likethey're not looking at me, they
don't even know I'm there.
(15:40):
I'm just outside looking in.
Drew (15:44):
So it takes away the risk of being seen, of being exposed,
and that's what I'm calling akind of sexual safety valve,
because without safety there isno arousal.
And you know this in thebedroom.
If you have some kind of fearor obligation in your mind when
you're trying to become sexual,it takes away the possibility of
(16:12):
really becoming aroused.
You have to have a sense thatI'm safe.
This is why, for peoplerecovering from pornography, you
can't be having sex whileyou're not safe and the other
person's not safe.
So safety is huge And yet atthe same time, fear is almost
synonymous with sexual arousal.
If you look at the physicalsymptoms when you're feeling
(16:32):
afraid, what happens?
Your heart starts beatingfaster, your stomach tightens,
your palms might get sweaty,your pupils dilate.
It's arousal And that fearpathway in our brain is very
connected to that arousal andpleasure pathway.
So whatever excites us or getsthat charge up is probably going
(16:58):
to relate to however yoursexuality developed.
Josh (17:03):
Wow, yeah, wow, wow.
All right, so there are twomore.
We're going to pause here andgive people a chance to decide.
Yes, that first one explorewhether or not that might be
something for them.
The next of the three, nexttime.
We're going to dive in, but let me just say what I said
a minute ago, drew, which is I'mreally excited to talk with you
And, for those of you don'tknow you, a couple of things
about you.
One is you are the founder, andis it Grand Puba?
Is that how you say it?
Leader, head coach maybe Thereyou go, a husband material which
(00:23):
can be found athusbandmaterialcom Yes, if you
don't know Drew and husbandmaterial, go there.
It's a beautiful, growingcommunity of men who either are
husbands, maybe desire to behusbands, but nonetheless want
to be the kind of material of aman, to be a good husband.
Drew (00:41):
Right.
So single, dating or married,we are becoming husband material
, which means sexually andemotionally mature men of God.
Josh (00:51):
Love it, love it Good.
And today, specifically, we'regoing to talk about how you help
men really decipher theirfantasies so that they don't
keep pulling them under andpulling them towards the sexual,
the animal and sexual behavior,whatever it is for them.
I mean, how do you, as you're,instead of me, trying to frame
(01:13):
it up for our listeners, how doyou frame this up as you're
coaching guys to begin this kindof work?
Drew (01:20):
Well, we all have unwanted sexual attraction of some kind
or another.
Whether you think you havefantasies or not, there are very
specific things that turn us onand that turn us off, and
(01:42):
sometimes what we wish turned uson doesn't, and sometimes what
we wish didn't turn us on does.
And that's my story.
Especially when I hit pubertyand started using pornography
and masturbating, i got stuck ina sexual fetish for braces and
(02:07):
orthodontics that I neverunderstood And I never told
anyone.
I was extremely ashamed aboutit And that was really the deep,
dark pull that never went away.
Even after I had gained a lot offreedom from my behavior, porn
(02:30):
still had power over me becauseof those fantasies and because
of that fetish.
So we need to be able to stripporn of its seductive power if
we want lasting freedom and ifwe want to get to the point
where it just doesn't appeal toyou anymore.
I know that might soundimpossible, but that's what I've
(02:53):
experienced.
I know you have experiencedmuch of the same and we've
learned a lot from our mutualfriend Jay Stringer about this
topic.
And there's so much hope whenwhat we are attracted to no
longer controls us anymore.
Josh (03:08):
Yeah, and the connection between shame and control is
something that I think willprobably become a little more
clear for guys as we get into it.
Men and women can benefit fromthis.
But true, and what you'retalking about too, is you
describe having a fetish Otherpeople.
They may not recognize whatevertheir sexual arousal or their
(03:32):
fantasy as a fetish, but itdoesn't matter, because really I
mean part of what unplugged thepower of shame from whatever
the unwanted attraction is,whether it's to a specific body
part or a specific scenario, ora specific gender or ethnicity,
etc.
Drew (03:52):
Age older people, younger people.
Josh (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, there's still connections to be made that can
help to unplug that sexualarousal kind of movement from
the stuff that got us there inthe first place.
Drew (04:08):
Yes, and we need to be very clear that the goal is
never to remove sexualattraction or to try to change
it in any way.
That would be unethical andeven unhelpful.
Our goal is to understand Sothat we can heal.
Josh (04:25):
So when you think about so , i use the phrase unplug and
I'm thinking kind of unplug thepower of it, the draw of it, but
just say a little bit moreabout like, because there are
people listening, going likewait a minute.
Like I actually want to get ridof this attraction, drew.
Didn't you want to get rid ofthis, the draw of braces and
orthodontics And are you sayingthat I can't be free from that
Like?
just unpack that a little bit.
(04:46):
Like, what is?
what's the difference betweengetting rid of it and no longer
being controlled by it oroverpowered by it?
Drew (04:53):
Well, to borrow a concept from internal family systems,
the sexual attraction andfantasy, whatever it is, is a
part of you And it is a partthat maybe has been
(05:14):
misunderstood, it's beenrepressed, it's been ignored,
it's been attacked.
When you get to know this partof you, you will find out where
it came from and why it's thereand what it really has to offer
(05:35):
you.
God can speak to us throughthese different parts of us And
if we neglect them, we miss outon what he has to teach us.
And, as you know, the more weresist, the more we try to
remove these things, thestronger they become.
It only gives them more powerwhen we try harder and harder to
(05:58):
get rid of them.
So here's the big differencebetween what I'm suggesting and
what the typical approach tofreedom from porn promotes.
Normally, in a lot of programsor other ministries that focus
on trying to help people getfree from porn, they are all
(06:18):
about fighting a battle,battling your sexual thoughts
and feelings.
I'm asking you to befriend yoursexual thoughts and feelings.
Stop battling, startbefriending.
That doesn't mean you let themgo wherever they want.
(06:38):
It also doesn't mean you try toget rid of them.
You befriend them like youwould befriend a little child,
because the truth is, underneaththese unwanted attractions,
that part of you is young.
There is a part of you thatdidn't get what you needed and
(07:01):
then sexualized it to get asymbol of it or a version of it
that became extremely attractiveand powerful.
So, rather than the militaryapproach, we're going to take
the Mr Rogers approach.
I don't know if you can see mylittle Mr Rogers figurine, but
(07:21):
Mr Rogers was all about lovingand accepting you exactly as you
are.
It was an approach oftenderness rather than toughness
, and that is what allows ouryoung parts to grow up.
Josh (07:42):
And I think people listening or watching will get
Like, let me just say this Ifyou're listening or watching and
you're thinking I'm notcomfortable with this, we're
talking about sin here, we'vegot to get after this stuff,
just hold on, hold on.
I think you'll understand moreof what Drew's saying If I could
point to a couple of scripturalplaces that might help you to
(08:03):
hold on and willing suspensionto disbelief.
One would be think about Jesuswith the woman at the well who
had a sordid past.
We don't know if it was done toher that she did it, but she
was ostracized and really lookedat as immoral And that's how
people treated her.
They were harsh toward her Andwe can surmise that from where
she was drawing water at thewell in the middle of the day,
(08:25):
which was not a time that peopledid that And Jesus' approach to
her was really to appeal to herthirst.
He was interested.
He told of the truth, aboutwhat she had done or what her
situation was, but he was alsovery, he was tender with her and
he lowered himself, asking herfor a drink, giving her a
position of power and appealingto her thirst, trying to draw.
I mean, this is such abeautiful moment.
(08:47):
He wants her to draw water fromthe well.
He's wanting to draw her thirstout of her, and I think you'll
see that in Drew.
The other thing I'm stillplaying with this idea but I
haven't found the source forthis.
But I understand that Aquinastaught that the deepest desire,
the root of every desire, isactually love, meaning that God
(09:07):
has made us for love, and soeven our errant desires, our
desires that point us in allsorts of different directions,
the reason they even have anypowers, because deep, deep down
inside that tap root is actuallya desire for love an desire to
love and to be loved, and Ithink you'll hear that more in
what Drew's about to say.
So keep track.
So, drew, let's dive in with.
(09:29):
So you have three.
Let's see You describe them asthree points of suffering that
fantasy tries to resolve.
So can you take us into thefirst one of those?
Drew (09:46):
Yeah.
So what is a fantasy?
A fantasy, whether sexual ornot, is asking the question what
if?
What if animals could talk?
What if death is not the end?
What if we could travel intoouter space?
And a sexual fantasy is a wayof taking our suffering and
(10:06):
asking well, what if that couldbecome something good?
What if I can take all thethings I don't want or like in
my life and transform them Andwe have a magic wand and say
poof, now you're somethingdifferent.
And I think our sexualfantasies do that.
They turn fear into safety,shame into glory and loss into
(10:30):
connection.
So the first one is our sexualfantasies turn fear into safety.
This one, yeah.
Can I stop you real quick?
Josh (10:46):
Oh yeah.
So just to jump in real quick,just as an illustration, that
idea of fantasy and I think youguys, everybody listening, you
can recognize this, you canrecognize that this is already a
reality When you're a kid.
Just think about the times likethere's a bully at school and
you went home and you pretendedto beat up the bully or you
(11:09):
pretended to be a superhero.
I mean you're using fantasy totry to enter in, to try to redo
something, to try to.
I mean maybe that wouldn't evenclick.
So that's the first one,turning fear into safety.
So that's it.
Yeah, This is already a presentreality in your life in all
areas of fantasy, and it'sequally true in your sexual
fantasy.
So yeah, so yeah.
(11:29):
Sorry to interrupt, i wanted tojust kind of.
Drew (11:34):
That's a great example.
So let's say you were bulliedas a boy.
Maybe you have a sexual fantasyof putting you in the position
of power.
You're the one who gets todecide what happens.
You're the one who has a voiceand a choice.
So that is reversing thedynamic of you being powerless,
(12:01):
you being dominated, and forsome men that experience of
bullying can translate intobeing attracted to a strong,
powerful type of person, apowerful man who has a strong
body, who can protect you, orthe kind of man you would want
(12:22):
to be so that you can protectyourself For others.
Maybe you developed a negativeassociation with men and were
drawn to lesbian porn.
There are no men in this sexualfantasy because for a man to be
in it takes away safety.
So every sexual fantasy hassome kind of safety valve where
(12:48):
a certain part of it means thatI'm safe, whether I'm the one in
power or the people who hurt meare not part of it.
Or perhaps it's not just aone-on-one sexual fantasy but
it's a threesome, because ifthere's more than one person
then it's less likely that I'llbe rejected, it's less
(13:09):
vulnerable.
Maybe there's an aspect ofvoyeurism.
I think all porn is voyeuristicin the sense that you're looking
into something that you're nota part of, and when you're in
voyeurism, you get to be theobserver, so it's keeping you
safe from having to be involved.
It keeps you a little bit moredistant.
(13:31):
So if you want to discover howmight my specific sexual fantasy
be providing a version ofsafety, ask yourself when you
were younger, how were youharmed?
What were you afraid of?
Is it possible that thisfantasy could be protecting you
(13:57):
from whatever that was?
And for some they might saywell, my sexual fantasy involves
me being harmed, and in thatcase we have to learn more to
really understand what's goingon.
But in general, imaginingsomething as a fantasy gives you
(14:17):
a level of choice and controlthat you would not have had
whenever you were being harmed.
So it could be just the factthat fantasizing about this,
about this horrific harm thathappened, still gives you a bit
of distance from it and allowsyou to remember it, but be safe
from it.
Josh (14:38):
Yeah, that's really powerful Part of my story.
Voyeurism was a huge area offantasy for me and a part of my
struggle and even a part of thepornography that I would look at
, And doing this kind of workhelped me to connect some dots
between.
There was a specific moment injunior high in the locker room
(14:59):
where I was exposed and veryashamed, terribly scared and
deeply humiliated And I thoughtit was going to be something
that just spread through theschool.
Yeah, a guy was making fun ofme and even came up to the
lunchroom table when I wassitting with my friends
(15:20):
afterwards and was just like wegot to tell everybody in the
school about this And I was justlike, oh my God, I'm not going
to be able to go back to theschool.
Never made a connection untilbeginning this kind of work to
recognize like, oh, it's saferfor me to be the one on the
outside who's looking in, Likethey're not looking at me, they
don't even know I'm there.
(15:40):
I'm just outside looking in.
Drew (15:44):
So it takes away the risk of being seen, of being exposed,
and that's what I'm calling akind of sexual safety valve,
because without safety there isno arousal.
And you know this in thebedroom.
If you have some kind of fearor obligation in your mind when
you're trying to become sexual,it takes away the possibility of
(16:12):
really becoming aroused.
You have to have a sense thatI'm safe.
This is why, for peoplerecovering from pornography, you
can't be having sex whileyou're not safe and the other
person's not safe.
So safety is huge And yet atthe same time, fear is almost
synonymous with sexual arousal.
If you look at the physicalsymptoms when you're feeling
(16:32):
afraid, what happens?
Your heart starts beatingfaster, your stomach tightens,
your palms might get sweaty,your pupils dilate.
It's arousal And that fearpathway in our brain is very
connected to that arousal andpleasure pathway.
So whatever excites us or getsthat charge up is probably going
(16:58):
to relate to however yoursexuality developed.
Josh (17:03):
Wow, yeah, wow, wow.
All right, so there are twomore.
We're going to pause here andgive people a chance to decide.
Yes, that first one explorewhether or not that might be
something for them.
The next of the three, nexttime.
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