July 15, 2025 • 32 mins
The world has a plan for your formation—are you consciously designing your counter-strategy? In this episode, we continue our conversation about developing a "rule of life" that helps us resist the powerful current of cultural formation pulling us away from Christ-likeness.
We tackle one of the most common obstacles to spiritual disciplines—the subtle belief that these practices earn God's favor rather than create space for relationship. When morning prayer becomes an obligation rather than a connection, we've missed the point entirely. Instead, we explore how disciplines function as training exercises that prepare us for lives of love.
Resources from this episode:
- Rule of Life Workbook
- Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster
- Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton
- Daily examen
Free Resources to help you on your journey to Becoming Whole
👉Men's Overcoming Lust & Temptation Devotional
👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, we are thrilled to be back with you
this week.
Last week we picked up aconversation.
We started a conversation onrule of life, the reality that
everybody all Christians need arule of life because the world
around us is trying to turn usinto their machine, their rule
of like the trellis, they wantus so that we can grow the kind
of fruit they want.
So we buy their stuff, end upbeing formed according to their
(00:23):
image and ultimately steer awayfrom the Lord.
But God desires us to have arule of life that helps us to be
with him, to become like himand to do the things he did.
Borrowed that straight fromJohn Mark Homer.
That'll be in the show notesagain.
But so we're going to pick upour conversation and talk more
about rule of life today with meand James Craig.
(00:44):
Hi, everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Excited to get into it.
Yeah, I'm so convinced, josh,that we can't help but pursue
joy.
Maybe happiness in a broadsense, like if, if, if I'm
waking up and I'm nodding offand not able to connect with god
at all as I'm trying to readthe word, or pray, or or
(01:11):
actually another one in the pastis, I would try to work out
first thing in the morning.
It's a very healthy thing to do, like you know, it's one of the
ways to optimize your body orwhatever.
But, dude, all I want to do issleep in.
If I'm about to, if I'm aboutto have to work out, all I want
to do is sleep in.
And so what I found is I'm notsaying that there's always pure
joy or ecstasy when I'm in theseplaces, but there's a couple of
(01:32):
things about them that helpedme to do them.
One is I've found ways to makethem relational.
Our brains are longing alwaysfor relationship, for connection
with God and connection withothers, and so the way I'm
trying to learn how to readscripture and even pray is a
more relational way.
And I'd argue and maybe youfound this too like the more
(01:53):
relationally I can connect withGod, the more effective I am at
that, the more it's like I wantto do this, as opposed to like I
just should do this, becausethe should isn't inherently
terrible, like you could arguelike, hey, we should read
scripture every week, or, youknow, perhaps daily, uh, pray
daily, worship daily, you know,go to church every week, maybe
twice a week, but like, but Ithink if we can't find ways to
(02:16):
say this is actually bringingjoyful connection, this is
actually somewhat satisfying.
I don't know, it's just gonnabe really hard to pursue it in a
regular way.
And so one of the great saintprayers do I have it behind me?
No, it's actually from adifferent saint, but it's like
satisfy me, god and Moses.
I love this prayer from Psalm 90.
(02:37):
Satisfy us each day, somethinglike this Psalm 90, 14, with
your unfailing love, satisfy us.
This is something we're allowedto pray like god, I need you to
be my satisfaction, becausepouring um all these other
things might be the thing thatfeels the most satisfying.
So, like, how do I pursuesatisfaction in these things and
in these ways?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
man.
You know what it makes me thinkof.
Like, um, I think it's so easywith spiritual practices to, to,
to get back into some kind of,some version of God.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Expects me to do this in order to earn something from
him, to to get his attention,um, to pay him back a little bit
for what he gave me, you know,um um, to pay him back a little
bit for what he gave me, youknow, um, or even like to get
good things from him, like if Ido my daily quiet time, things
(03:32):
should go well for me.
Like that could be the similarside of the other side of the
coin.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I mean, I remember, as a as a young
Christian, zealous Christian, ifI, if I missed a quiet time in
the morning, I started torecognize I had this unspoken
but also very powerful feelingthat somehow God was going to be
a little bit more distantthroughout the day for me, and I
think so where that stuff kicksin.
(03:57):
It's important to notice that,and what I, what I want to
suggest in this podcast is thatour we might, we might respond
to that by, or react to that bysaying, okay, well, I'm just not
going to do those thingsbecause I am not under the law,
I don't need to God's with meall the time.
And I want to suggest insteadthat when we find those things,
when you, listener, find thosethings coming up in you, the
(04:19):
feeling that somehow God isdispleased with you, know that
the hour you set aside for yourquiet time, you only spent 15
minutes, or the 15 minutes youset aside you only used five, or
that you fell asleep the wholetime.
When you find yourself kind offace to face with a feeling, use
as an opportunity to come backto him with questions, to come
back to him with the level oflike God, I know that you're
still here.
I know that you still love meand I'm feeling this way about
(04:55):
what just happened.
I'm feeling that I'm not doingenough for you.
Josh and James said don't trustus.
Actually, spiritual fathers andmothers throughout the ages
have said that we don't have todo these things to earn love
from you, but I'm feeling like Ido.
Can you help me walk through?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
that that is so important and it's also this is
another Willard thing he taughta lot of what I understand about
the disciplines.
He taught indirectly John MarkComer as well, who we referenced
earlier, but he emphasizes thatdisciplines are not acts of
righteousness.
I just think that is soliberating.
Like sometimes in church welearn, okay, you gotta get saved
(05:33):
and then you gotta have yourdaily quiet time, like in some
spaces you could boil downthat's the spiritual life.
Of course those are two reallyimportant facets of it.
But having your quiet time isnot an act of righteousness,
it's not a good work.
If you will, and even if it was, it wouldn't necessarily, you
know, it's still by, as youcan't see right now, but John
(05:54):
Chrysostom, the church father,is still going to be by mercy
that you're saved, even if itwere.
But what is a good work?
A good work is a work of love,an act of love.
Good work is a work of love, anact of love.
And so again, going back to thattraining image, having the
quiet time might be, we realize,a fruitful part of developing a
posture of love so that we canlove people and God throughout
the day.
And of course we can love Godin the midst of it.
(06:17):
I'm not completely separatingout like practice versus the
game the way it would be forbaseball, but like it's so that
we can love game the way itwould be for baseball, but like
it's so that we can love, it'snot so that we're like thinking
of ourselves as, as you knowbetter, or something like that.
I don't know if that insighthelps at all, but that's helped
me a lot actually yeah, anotherthing.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
This is a very different direction.
But another thing that's reallyhelped me with spiritual
disciplines has been I think Ithink this came from ruth haley
barton or I don't know if itoriginates from her, but I
learned it from her and she hasgot a lot of good, good
spiritual and the rule of lifeas well.
Um, but she points out that alot of us in America kind of
approach this with like almostlike a you know, a vending
machine idea, like I come and Ispend my 15 minutes with Jesus,
(06:58):
or I fasted for the day orwhatever, and so therefore I
should be experiencing the fruitof that.
And she said often that wedon't have, we don't recognize
the fruit at all.
We might actually feel, wemight feel worse afterwards,
like gosh, I'm tired, I couldhave slept in or or whatever.
So we need to, we need to trustthat the God is working, that
seeds are planted and that he is, he is moving through those
(07:18):
times.
That's been really helpful forme, just to just to take the
pressure off.
You know, having a great quiettime this morning.
You know not that I don't wantgreat experiences with Jesus
when I'm having devotional time,when I'm reading scripture.
Like I love it when thescriptures come alive and
something pops and I feel like,oh my gosh, god just spoke to me
, he just reveals something new.
I love it when I'm fasting andhave an encounter with Jesus
(07:40):
that feels like man, you took medeeper.
I love that stuff.
But when I don't experiencethat, instead of kind of looking
inward and self critiquing, Ican instead turn it back to
Jesus and just say I trust you,I trust you, my days are in your
hand, um and that's a goodcounterbalance, too, to what I
said earlier about seekingthings that bring you joy,
because sometimes these thingsdo bring you joy, but it's not
(08:02):
always as immediate.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
There's probably a little bit of a both and like.
On my walks I'm getting to seebeautiful trees and plants and
flowers and that helps me engageGod's heart and beauty and it's
good for my mind.
And I'm walking.
It's like there's this holisticgoodness that I know.
If I do that 30 minutes ofwalking, it's going to usually
be almost immediately great.
But things like fasting there'stimes where it's like this is
(08:27):
miserable, but over time, ormaybe by the end of the fast or
something, hopefully God hasgiven you something richer or
deeper or something I don't know.
There's more wisdom than I have, guys.
So don't just follow your heartquote unquote because maybe
you'll end up sleeping in therest of your life if you do that
(08:47):
.
But, but, but, still like.
Are there ways to find joy atthe same time in these things,
things that are life giving?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, and I think you're bringing up the reality
that that any disciplines thatwe do and we're talking about
spiritual disciplines it's notjust new, we're talking about
this before, in a different wayit's not just something we can
expect to impact ourquote-unquote spirit Like they
actually do impact usholistically.
You know, there is power in thediscipline of going to bed at a
certain time, waking up at acertain time, taking a walk,
(09:17):
fasting, getting together withcommunity prayer, observable
things that can change in usthat we might not categorize as
quote-unquote spiritual.
And that goes back to whatyou're saying about elizabeth
waning's idea that that we'renot so the, our spirit and body
are not really meant.
We're not, we're not meant tothink about them as separate
things.
The only reason it makes senseto talk about them separately is
(09:40):
when you're trying to like honein on what one area might do or
mean, but really, like theyoperate together inside of us.
They operate.
We are spirit and body.
As christopher west says.
You take, take one apart fromthe other and you end up with
what a corpse you're dead like.
So, um.
So spiritual disciplines aren'taren't to be confused with, or
spiritual practice aren't to beconfused with something that you
(10:02):
just do somehow in the etherealrealm like these are actually
very physical, very practicalthings and willard would
actually say, like you do themwith your body.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
There are things you do and arguably you could pray
in your mind or you knowwhatever, but like, oh, most of
these are bodily actions you'redoing to, yeah, to engage with
god well, and, to be fair, ifyou're praying in your mind,
you're praying inside of yourbrain, which is a part of your
body.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So sure, um, and exercise helps your brain and
rest helps your brain.
So, like, even if you all youdo ever do is pray in your quote
, unquote in your mind and yoursleep habits are horrible, and
your habits are horrible.
You're gonna have a harder time, you know.
So it it all connects, yeah,all right.
So, talking about the body,that this, this, now we have to
go straight to that where westarted, which was, uh, you need
(10:46):
a spiritual rule of life.
If, if, for no other reason andeveryone has a reason but for
those who are in recovery, thosewho are trying to heal from
unwanted sexual behaviors, thosewho are trying to heal from
infidelity, those are trying toheal from what's, whatever's
going on with a son or daughter,you need a spiritual of life,
and I want to, just by way ofreminder, then we're talking
(11:06):
about maybe, some specifics thatcould help you, by way of
reminder.
You need one because thecurrent of the world, the flow
of the world, the river that isaround you all of the time, has
ideas for what healthy sexualityis, and they are not healthy.
They have ideas for what amarriage should look like
(11:46):
no-transcript.
And so for our purposes, we'regoing to park a little bit, just
for time's sake, into the realmof those of you who are
wrestling with unwanted sexualbehaviors.
You need a rule of life, notbecause God's holding out on you
, not because you've donesomething wrong and you're
guilty and you better now dothis good thing, but simply
(12:08):
because there are the forces ofthe world certainly the forces
now of your flesh that havelearned to habitualize towards
sexual sin, and there aremalevolent forces, devils, that
are actually seeking to draw youaway from God and draw you
towards sexual sin.
So you'd be captive there.
You need a rule of life.
So, james, kind of putting itin this context, I know in your
(12:32):
recovery journey you hadspecific things that you would
do.
What of those things would yousay?
"'yeah, for a season these werea part of my rule of life?
"'to grow in sexual integrity'".
Speaker 2 (12:43):
That's such a good question rule of life, but well,
yeah, but yeah, what are things, what are patterns that I
really need?
So let me again think daily,weekly, monthly, yearly, just a
little bit, as as as buckets.
Here's some ideas and again, ifyou don't do these things
doesn't mean you know, like youwill never recover or something
like that.
But these, which of these mightgive you life?
(13:03):
Which of these draws you towardjesus and his body?
You know, one of the ideas isdaily.
What could it look like toreach out to a brother or a
sister, you know gender specificor the same gender daily, like,
is there the same person, arethere different people?
If you're in Awaken360 or oneof these recovery groups or
(13:23):
programs, like, is it adifferent person from your group
each day?
And that would actually beginteaching you.
You're not alone in this.
You could receive some prayer.
You're growing relationally.
Another thing is, I'd say, atleast on a weekly basis, very
easy.
If you're in Awaken orsomething like that, you have
content.
But like, what could it looklike to engage in recovery,
(13:46):
focused content, every singleweek?
I remember Josh going throughAwaken when I was a participant.
I can't help plug it because itreally did like God used it to
change my life and part of itwas when I'd sit there, you know
, engage the video, the readingand then the questions, and I
really did the questions withJesus.
I had like at least two, andthis is out of two years.
(14:07):
So I really did the questionswith Jesus.
I had like at least two, andthis is out of two years, so I'm
not saying it happened everyweek, but I had two of like the
most life-changing experiences.
Reflecting on some of thosequestions where God brought me
back into a memory, I literallycould feel my brain like felt
like it was, like it was likegoosebumps, but on my brain and
I knew God was healing me,perhaps even in my brain like,
(14:29):
wow, there there's a wisdom tonot overdoing the recovery I
know some guys benefit from.
Hey, I need to go to a groupevery single day for a season,
but but at the very least, Ithink we need to find ways to
invest in particular ways.
One idea for monthly I guess I'mjust going to list one for each
at this rate, but one idea formonthly.
(14:49):
What could a monthly fast looklike?
A 24 hour could be more, couldbe less, but a food and or a
tech fast, and I throw the ideaof a tech fast in, because when
we actually take that break fromtechnology, I've noticed and
this was in my 2023 rule of lifeit's dropped out of my life.
I used to do a monthly techfast and if I, if I planned it
(15:11):
well and I had a meal with thisfriend and I had this time with
my wife and I went on a walkhere like it was so joyful and
by the end of the day, into thenext day, I felt more alive than
I'd felt in weeks, which showsyou know, the research shows
these things don't actuallybring us I'm holding on my phone
for those not watching theYouTube video but these things
(15:33):
don't actually bring us as muchlife as they're promising.
And so, whether it's with techlike I just shared, or food
teaching yourself, I don'tactually need food.
Obviously, we need food in thelong run, somewhere between 22
to 40 days, your body startseating away at its organs
without food, so we do need food.
That's a whole interestingconversation we can reference in
(15:53):
the show notes where I got that, which is Richard Foster's
Celebration of Discipline.
He talks about the details offasting, but Jesus did a literal
40-day food fast and I knowpeople who have done that too
Wild.
It's a little maybe extreme forsome of the listeners here, but
but what could a monthly24-hour fast look like?
Teaching yourself I don't needfood for this day, I need the
(16:15):
lord in this place.
And what?
How?
How might his power show up?
Like teaching you to say no tothis very real desire and, yeah,
longer term need versus withsex?
We don't actually need sex.
You've hopefully heard that fromus before, but you're saying
I'm going to say no to thisthing that, yeah, in the long
(16:37):
run, I do need so that God cancome and fill in some of these
places.
And it's teaching you some ofthat Yearly.
It might be a retreat.
We're actually having ourawakened retreat again this fall
in October.
Some guys found that reallylife-changing like getting away
with a group of like-mindedbelievers to get after some
stuff.
That could be a really powerfulkind of you know, refreshment
(17:00):
in this journey.
Those are just four, four ideasright off the top, josh, I'm
sure there's many, many more.
You stole all mine.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So that's fantastic.
The other thing I'd add aboutfasting is that and there's more
mystery to it than this, but itis among the spiritual
disciplines it has a uniqueplace, related to sexuality, in
that we feel the longing in ourbodies, and so it is teaching
our bodies that we can say no.
We can say no I don't mean thatover and against our bodies and
(17:28):
so it is teaching our bodiesthat we can say no.
We can say no, Um.
I don't mean that over andagainst our bodies.
What I mean is that our bodiescan say no, Um.
One of the things I love to dowhen I fast is, when I feel
hunger pangs, to turn that asprayer to the Lord with a simple
I hunger and thirst for you,Lord, I long for you most of all
, and that's been reallymeaningful to me.
(17:48):
John Mark Comer actuallyteaches that in the early church
, a lot of people it was apretty regular thing for a long,
long time would fast two days aweek, from sunup till sundown,
and that's something that in themodern era we've really lost.
Fasting is kind of a uniquething.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I've actually heard some of our roman catholic
brothers and sisters they, theyfast from meat on fridays,
still to this day.
I'm like, oh okay, you're doingsomething each week to remind
yourself like you don't live onbread alone.
Like jesus would say like yeah,some of the things our bodies
wants it doesn't need, in thatmoment at least, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Right, exactly, exactly, um, uh, two others that
I'd include, like for earlyrecovery, I'd say at least, and
I'd include this in the kind ofthe idea of you going to a group
, as you described, every weekconfession.
So confession is typically a, ait is included in a recovery
group, um, but confessing,getting it all out, what did you
(18:48):
do this week?
What are the sins that youcommitted, and saying them plain
.
I'm a, I'm a big fan of that.
I had a mentor at one point whoreally helped me with that,
like I, I had so much, I don'tknow, like fat and fluff around
my confession.
Sometimes you just say, josh,just say what you did, like um,
um, kind of stripped it of allthe justification or the nuance
(19:08):
or whatever.
Just to say like, yeah, Ilusted after women in porn for
two hours.
You know it's hard to say.
The point isn't that it's hard,it's just, it's just confession
, bring it into the light, dragit into the light.
And you do this not tohumiliate yourself, not shame
yourself.
You do it as as an um agreementthat you are actually made for
(19:29):
the light, and the fact thatthis stuff doesn't like the
light is evidence that it'sreally not a part of you.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's not meant to be a part of you, um there's also
promises in Proverbs 28, infirst John and in the book of
James, like healing can comethrough confession, purification
, forgiveness, mercy.
Uh, there's some reallybeautiful promises in scripture
that come from that.
Just, I'm getting it out.
I'm being honest with God andothers.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah, and others, I think is a key, key
part of that, always for me, aspart of a rule of life and
recovery for me.
And then the other, the othercouple that I'd say one is, is
communion or Eucharist.
This may not be a weekly thing,depending on your, your
Christian tradition, but withwith a heart that and a mind
(20:17):
that recognizes and believes,takes God at his word, there is
something happening that we arein some mysterious way taking
the body and blood of Jesus intoourselves and united ourselves
with him.
And no matter your churchdenomination most at least,
mainline denominations agreethat this is a sacrament,
(20:39):
meaning that there is grace.
Sacrament meaning that there'sgrace applied to you even beyond
your ability to conceive ofwhat's happening.
Um, uh, so so take it with that, with that sense of God.
I need you, uh, my body alonejust keeps going to sin.
I need you in me, I need yourholiness in me.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Um, yeah, one, one way that that's been a common
place of common ground actuallyfor church history for most
Christians is whether or not yougo as far as transubstantiation
, like our Roman Catholicbrothers and sisters, or you
kind of lean toward thememorialistic, like this is just
in remembrance.
Most could agree on this ideaof real presence.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Some mysterious way there's a real sense that god is
, he's present, in that jesus ispresent, in that he wants to
work, work in and through you,in that, in that meal exactly,
and isn't it a beautiful thingthat that jesus recognizes that
in our bodies, our flesh alonewithout him we are, we do
harmful, hurtful things toourselves, others, we, we sin
(21:39):
sexually, etc.
Um, and it is.
It is this beautiful expressionof him giving his body that
doesn't do that to people, thatdoesn't devour people with our
lustful looks or with ourgrasping hands or, uh, sexual
hookups, but rather, um, hegives his body, his naked body
on the cross for us.
This is my body, given for you,and so we take his body into
(22:02):
our bodies that we might becomemore like him as we and we take
his body.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, sorry to cut in , but we take his body instead
of taking the body of ourunwilling victims.
That sounds weird the way Ijust put it.
But but like I know that peoplemight consent to be in
pornography or this or that, butlike we're using these people
who don't really know whatthey're giving and they're not
actually giving themselves in away that is like Jesus and
(22:29):
instead we're saying Jesus gavehimself to me.
I mean, it's kind of wild tothink about like that.
Yeah, he's meant to be the onethat we're consuming.
In a sense, he's meant to bethe one that we're consuming.
In a sense, he's the one whowanted to die for us so that we
may live.
Can I just throw two more inJosh?
Two more, yeah, let me.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Let me say say one more before you do, because it
fits with what you're justsharing, and this is something I
didn't do in early recovery butI've, I've learned to do since.
I think it's really helpful.
You can look up when I havetime to get into it, what a
(23:07):
daily examen is, where you callit through your day for moments
where there's resonance ordissonance with the Lord.
But one of the places I thinkthat's valuable to do that on a
daily basis, if you can, is tojust reflect on how you have
seen people.
Did you see them as objects ordid you see them as human
persons?
Did you see them, in otherwords, do you see them through
the eyes of lust or did you seethem as objects, or did you see
them as human persons?
Did you see them, in otherwords, do you see them through
the eyes of lust or did you seethem through the eyes of
Christ's love?
And that goes well beyond lust,because there are so many ways
(23:28):
that we might view people justkind of with, with loathing or
with.
You know they're, they're anobstacle in my way.
They slowed me down, you know,I, I, they look terrible,
whatever, whatever it might be,all the ways that we kind of
look at people and just see them, like the Pharisee and John in
uh in Luke seven did, is just a,you know, a sinner, rather than
an actual human person, a manor woman.
(23:48):
And I think, meditating ontaking some time just to reflect
on that and and again, not toshame ourselves but to invite
Jesus into that Lord, I, Ididn't see a person I just saw a
subject, but that's a person.
Would you help me see peoplewhen I look here or there, when
I'm exposed to the image of aperson?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
There are many ways to do the examine.
But as someone who works fromhome, I don't have a drive
commute, except for when I'mvisiting the team out in
Baltimore a few times a year.
But I would do this dailycommute where I do a 10 minute
loop around the block after work, and I would do this daily
commute where I do a 10 minuteloop around the block after work
and I would do something likean exam and we'll put an example
in the show notes.
But I now don't do that becauseI'm doing other things.
(24:26):
But I shower after work andthat's a great opportunity to
reflect on the day with the Lord.
Can you invite the Lord eventhere?
Not put on music.
Or, if you're in your car, notput on the radio.
Pause this podcast, whateverthat not put on the radio.
Pause this podcast, whateverthat looks like, maybe just one
leg of your commute, maybe notboth, but the way home I'm going
to process my day with the Lord.
I'm going to consider how I sawpeople Two other ones that I
(24:49):
really love that are so good forrecovery and also for betrayal
situations for parents.
Celebration I mean literally thename of Richard Foster's
classic book that I referencedearlier is Celebration of
Discipline, and one of thedisciplines is celebration.
We need to celebrate, like somany of the commands in
Deuteronomy, in the Pentateuch,the first five books of the Old
(25:11):
Testament, so many of the lawsfor Israel were.
You need to celebrate thisfeast.
You need to kill your bestanimal, some of which you're
going to put on the altar.
It's completely burned away forGod, like pure sacrifice, but a
lot of it was like give it tothe priests and then they're
going to make a feast for thewhole town.
It's like you got to celebrateguys, like I got you out of this
(25:32):
place.
So what happens when you finishyour next quarter of awaken?
What happens when you hit amonth of sobriety?
We're not huge in accountingdays, but what happens when you
hit a milestone in like it'sbeen a year since my husband's
acted out, or my wife and I havebeen on this recovery journey,
or my child has not been goingto this for some time, or
(25:53):
there's been progress.
I want to take them out to icecream to celebrate that.
So marking these things with atime of celebration can be such
um, such a joyful and powerfulway to.
That could be one of your rolesof life yearly, ideally
quarterly, monthly, likesomething where it's like I'm
going to celebrate.
Even the small small-ish winslove it.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You had one more.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I got so excited about that that I might have
lost that.
But let me just throw out thislast thought.
Willard argues that everythingwe allow into our minds has
either a positive or negativeeffect on us.
I don't know if he's rightabout that.
About that I genuinely I'vethought about.
(26:40):
I'm like is that?
Could that really be true thatthere's not anything that's
really neutral that we allowinto our minds and someone like
me can take that legalistically.
I know that tendency in myself.
But I want you to consider whenyou think about this idea of
rule of life, are there thingsthat I'm letting in 10 steps
before I give into porn?
Like do I need a part of myrule of life is in this season,
(27:02):
I'm going to cancel mysubscription to Netflix.
In this season I'm going tochoose to.
You know, if I'm going to watchmedia, it's going to be things
that you know are particularlyedifying.
Again, if you have a legalistictendency, I want you to take
all of that with a grain of salt, take it prayerfully.
But like could there actuallybe some joy?
Could your mind get more freedup?
(27:23):
Hey, on Wednesday nights I'mnot going to do any electronics
after work because I'm going togive my mind some room to
breathe.
I'm going to be more focused onmy family.
Like, are there ways that youcan actually structure to not
allow those you know rules oflife from the world to have so
much stake in your household,like the TV representing that
(27:44):
trellis of the worldly rule oflife for some of us, or the you
know the phone or whatever?
Like, are there ways you canactually decrease some of the
thoughts that are coming intoyour mind?
Willard would say that we havea free will but it's weak.
I appreciate that it's kind ofa middle ground between some of
those debates.
But we have a will that's freebut it is weak.
And our most powerful choice iswhat we allow into our minds,
(28:08):
because once we've allowedsomething into our minds it's a
lot harder to respond well to it.
But choosing what we even allowin can be part of our rules
life.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, so good, and a couple.
So I'm gonna we're gonna wrapthis up.
But, like, pay attention,especially as you think about
this podcast, those ideas of thethings you might introduce into
your life, that you actuallyfelt a tinge of joy around, like
that could be cool.
So good, pay attention to thatand start there.
God's not looking to like, youknow, create a you know a dour
(28:46):
list of things for you to do.
Um, so start with the thingsthat actually, that feels really
good.
I like that idea.
Also, don't do all these things.
Pick one or two, just begin.
Um, if you're, if you're reallyout of control in your behaviors
, you might need support toactually introduce a number of
things pretty quickly.
But get some help with that.
You don't need to do the heavylifting on your own.
So where have we been?
Everybody needs a rule of life.
(29:07):
Everybody has a rule of life,whether it's something that
they've been given or somethingthat they are, um, they're doing
themselves.
Uh, and we, we believe thatthose in recovery are not the
exception of the rule, in thatthey just have a, maybe a
specific point in their liveswhere it's most, it's especially
important.
They have a rule of life and,brothers and sisters, you don't,
(29:30):
you don't, you're not gonna getpast that this side of heaven.
And that's not bad news.
It's actually really reallygood news.
In the same way that it'sreally really good news for a
great musician to have time topractice every day and the joy
that he or she experiences whenthey sit and play a masterful
piece that they've learned andit's taken a lot of work to do.
They are free at that keyboardand God desires you and me, to
(29:55):
be free in the, in our bodies,not to be constrained by sexual
sin or other habits that draw usaway.
So, jesus, um, we pray againstlegalism.
We pray against any image oraccusation of the enemy against
you that says you just want usto do a bunch of things and
you're dour faced, and againstjoy.
Lord, you have eternalpleasures at your right hand and
(30:18):
all you invite us into Lord isfor our good, not because you
need us to do something, notbecause you're mean, but because
you want us to be free andalive, fully alive.
Lord, we want that too.
We pray that for us.
We pray it for our listeners inJesus name.
Amen, amen, thank you.
Hey everybody, we are thrilled to be back with you
this week.
Last week we picked up aconversation.
We started a conversation onrule of life, the reality that
everybody all Christians need arule of life because the world
around us is trying to turn usinto their machine, their rule
of like the trellis, they wantus so that we can grow the kind
of fruit they want.
So we buy their stuff, end upbeing formed according to their
(00:23):
image and ultimately steer awayfrom the Lord.
But God desires us to have arule of life that helps us to be
with him, to become like himand to do the things he did.
Borrowed that straight fromJohn Mark Homer.
That'll be in the show notesagain.
But so we're going to pick upour conversation and talk more
about rule of life today with meand James Craig.
(00:44):
Hi, everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Excited to get into it.
Yeah, I'm so convinced, josh,that we can't help but pursue
joy.
Maybe happiness in a broadsense, like if, if, if I'm
waking up and I'm nodding offand not able to connect with god
at all as I'm trying to readthe word, or pray, or or
(01:11):
actually another one in the pastis, I would try to work out
first thing in the morning.
It's a very healthy thing to do, like you know, it's one of the
ways to optimize your body orwhatever.
But, dude, all I want to do issleep in.
If I'm about to, if I'm aboutto have to work out, all I want
to do is sleep in.
And so what I found is I'm notsaying that there's always pure
joy or ecstasy when I'm in theseplaces, but there's a couple of
(01:32):
things about them that helpedme to do them.
One is I've found ways to makethem relational.
Our brains are longing alwaysfor relationship, for connection
with God and connection withothers, and so the way I'm
trying to learn how to readscripture and even pray is a
more relational way.
And I'd argue and maybe youfound this too like the more
(01:53):
relationally I can connect withGod, the more effective I am at
that, the more it's like I wantto do this, as opposed to like I
just should do this, becausethe should isn't inherently
terrible, like you could arguelike, hey, we should read
scripture every week, or, youknow, perhaps daily, uh, pray
daily, worship daily, you know,go to church every week, maybe
twice a week, but like, but Ithink if we can't find ways to
(02:16):
say this is actually bringingjoyful connection, this is
actually somewhat satisfying.
I don't know, it's just gonnabe really hard to pursue it in a
regular way.
And so one of the great saintprayers do I have it behind me?
No, it's actually from adifferent saint, but it's like
satisfy me, god and Moses.
I love this prayer from Psalm 90.
(02:37):
Satisfy us each day, somethinglike this Psalm 90, 14, with
your unfailing love, satisfy us.
This is something we're allowedto pray like god, I need you to
be my satisfaction, becausepouring um all these other
things might be the thing thatfeels the most satisfying.
So, like, how do I pursuesatisfaction in these things and
in these ways?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
man.
You know what it makes me thinkof.
Like, um, I think it's so easywith spiritual practices to, to,
to get back into some kind of,some version of God.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Expects me to do this in order to earn something from
him, to to get his attention,um, to pay him back a little bit
for what he gave me, you know,um um, to pay him back a little
bit for what he gave me, youknow, um, or even like to get
good things from him, like if Ido my daily quiet time, things
(03:32):
should go well for me.
Like that could be the similarside of the other side of the
coin.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I mean, I remember, as a as a young
Christian, zealous Christian, ifI, if I missed a quiet time in
the morning, I started torecognize I had this unspoken
but also very powerful feelingthat somehow God was going to be
a little bit more distantthroughout the day for me, and I
think so where that stuff kicksin.
(03:57):
It's important to notice that,and what I, what I want to
suggest in this podcast is thatour we might, we might respond
to that by, or react to that bysaying, okay, well, I'm just not
going to do those thingsbecause I am not under the law,
I don't need to God's with meall the time.
And I want to suggest insteadthat when we find those things,
when you, listener, find thosethings coming up in you, the
(04:19):
feeling that somehow God isdispleased with you, know that
the hour you set aside for yourquiet time, you only spent 15
minutes, or the 15 minutes youset aside you only used five, or
that you fell asleep the wholetime.
When you find yourself kind offace to face with a feeling, use
as an opportunity to come backto him with questions, to come
back to him with the level oflike God, I know that you're
still here.
I know that you still love meand I'm feeling this way about
(04:55):
what just happened.
I'm feeling that I'm not doingenough for you.
Josh and James said don't trustus.
Actually, spiritual fathers andmothers throughout the ages
have said that we don't have todo these things to earn love
from you, but I'm feeling like Ido.
Can you help me walk through?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
that that is so important and it's also this is
another Willard thing he taughta lot of what I understand about
the disciplines.
He taught indirectly John MarkComer as well, who we referenced
earlier, but he emphasizes thatdisciplines are not acts of
righteousness.
I just think that is soliberating.
Like sometimes in church welearn, okay, you gotta get saved
(05:33):
and then you gotta have yourdaily quiet time, like in some
spaces you could boil downthat's the spiritual life.
Of course those are two reallyimportant facets of it.
But having your quiet time isnot an act of righteousness,
it's not a good work.
If you will, and even if it was, it wouldn't necessarily, you
know, it's still by, as youcan't see right now, but John
(05:54):
Chrysostom, the church father,is still going to be by mercy
that you're saved, even if itwere.
But what is a good work?
A good work is a work of love,an act of love.
Good work is a work of love, anact of love.
And so again, going back to thattraining image, having the
quiet time might be, we realize,a fruitful part of developing a
posture of love so that we canlove people and God throughout
the day.
And of course we can love Godin the midst of it.
(06:17):
I'm not completely separatingout like practice versus the
game the way it would be forbaseball, but like it's so that
we can love game the way itwould be for baseball, but like
it's so that we can love, it'snot so that we're like thinking
of ourselves as, as you knowbetter, or something like that.
I don't know if that insighthelps at all, but that's helped
me a lot actually yeah, anotherthing.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
This is a very different direction.
But another thing that's reallyhelped me with spiritual
disciplines has been I think Ithink this came from ruth haley
barton or I don't know if itoriginates from her, but I
learned it from her and she hasgot a lot of good, good
spiritual and the rule of lifeas well.
Um, but she points out that alot of us in America kind of
approach this with like almostlike a you know, a vending
machine idea, like I come and Ispend my 15 minutes with Jesus,
(06:58):
or I fasted for the day orwhatever, and so therefore I
should be experiencing the fruitof that.
And she said often that wedon't have, we don't recognize
the fruit at all.
We might actually feel, wemight feel worse afterwards,
like gosh, I'm tired, I couldhave slept in or or whatever.
So we need to, we need to trustthat the God is working, that
seeds are planted and that he is, he is moving through those
(07:18):
times.
That's been really helpful forme, just to just to take the
pressure off.
You know, having a great quiettime this morning.
You know not that I don't wantgreat experiences with Jesus
when I'm having devotional time,when I'm reading scripture.
Like I love it when thescriptures come alive and
something pops and I feel like,oh my gosh, god just spoke to me
, he just reveals something new.
I love it when I'm fasting andhave an encounter with Jesus
(07:40):
that feels like man, you took medeeper.
I love that stuff.
But when I don't experiencethat, instead of kind of looking
inward and self critiquing, Ican instead turn it back to
Jesus and just say I trust you,I trust you, my days are in your
hand, um and that's a goodcounterbalance, too, to what I
said earlier about seekingthings that bring you joy,
because sometimes these thingsdo bring you joy, but it's not
(08:02):
always as immediate.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
There's probably a little bit of a both and like.
On my walks I'm getting to seebeautiful trees and plants and
flowers and that helps me engageGod's heart and beauty and it's
good for my mind.
And I'm walking.
It's like there's this holisticgoodness that I know.
If I do that 30 minutes ofwalking, it's going to usually
be almost immediately great.
But things like fasting there'stimes where it's like this is
(08:27):
miserable, but over time, ormaybe by the end of the fast or
something, hopefully God hasgiven you something richer or
deeper or something I don't know.
There's more wisdom than I have, guys.
So don't just follow your heartquote unquote because maybe
you'll end up sleeping in therest of your life if you do that
(08:47):
.
But, but, but, still like.
Are there ways to find joy atthe same time in these things,
things that are life giving?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, and I think you're bringing up the reality
that that any disciplines thatwe do and we're talking about
spiritual disciplines it's notjust new, we're talking about
this before, in a different wayit's not just something we can
expect to impact ourquote-unquote spirit Like they
actually do impact usholistically.
You know, there is power in thediscipline of going to bed at a
certain time, waking up at acertain time, taking a walk,
(09:17):
fasting, getting together withcommunity prayer, observable
things that can change in usthat we might not categorize as
quote-unquote spiritual.
And that goes back to whatyou're saying about elizabeth
waning's idea that that we'renot so the, our spirit and body
are not really meant.
We're not, we're not meant tothink about them as separate
things.
The only reason it makes senseto talk about them separately is
(09:40):
when you're trying to like honein on what one area might do or
mean, but really, like theyoperate together inside of us.
They operate.
We are spirit and body.
As christopher west says.
You take, take one apart fromthe other and you end up with
what a corpse you're dead like.
So, um.
So spiritual disciplines aren'taren't to be confused with, or
spiritual practice aren't to beconfused with something that you
(10:02):
just do somehow in the etherealrealm like these are actually
very physical, very practicalthings and willard would
actually say, like you do themwith your body.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
There are things you do and arguably you could pray
in your mind or you knowwhatever, but like, oh, most of
these are bodily actions you'redoing to, yeah, to engage with
god well, and, to be fair, ifyou're praying in your mind,
you're praying inside of yourbrain, which is a part of your
body.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So sure, um, and exercise helps your brain and
rest helps your brain.
So, like, even if you all youdo ever do is pray in your quote
, unquote in your mind and yoursleep habits are horrible, and
your habits are horrible.
You're gonna have a harder time, you know.
So it it all connects, yeah,all right.
So, talking about the body,that this, this, now we have to
go straight to that where westarted, which was, uh, you need
(10:46):
a spiritual rule of life.
If, if, for no other reason andeveryone has a reason but for
those who are in recovery, thosewho are trying to heal from
unwanted sexual behaviors, thosewho are trying to heal from
infidelity, those are trying toheal from what's, whatever's
going on with a son or daughter,you need a spiritual of life,
and I want to, just by way ofreminder, then we're talking
(11:06):
about maybe, some specifics thatcould help you, by way of
reminder.
You need one because thecurrent of the world, the flow
of the world, the river that isaround you all of the time, has
ideas for what healthy sexualityis, and they are not healthy.
They have ideas for what amarriage should look like
(11:46):
no-transcript.
And so for our purposes, we'regoing to park a little bit, just
for time's sake, into the realmof those of you who are
wrestling with unwanted sexualbehaviors.
You need a rule of life, notbecause God's holding out on you
, not because you've donesomething wrong and you're
guilty and you better now dothis good thing, but simply
(12:08):
because there are the forces ofthe world certainly the forces
now of your flesh that havelearned to habitualize towards
sexual sin, and there aremalevolent forces, devils, that
are actually seeking to draw youaway from God and draw you
towards sexual sin.
So you'd be captive there.
You need a rule of life.
So, james, kind of putting itin this context, I know in your
(12:32):
recovery journey you hadspecific things that you would
do.
What of those things would yousay?
"'yeah, for a season these werea part of my rule of life?
"'to grow in sexual integrity'".
Speaker 2 (12:43):
That's such a good question rule of life, but well,
yeah, but yeah, what are things, what are patterns that I
really need?
So let me again think daily,weekly, monthly, yearly, just a
little bit, as as as buckets.
Here's some ideas and again, ifyou don't do these things
doesn't mean you know, like youwill never recover or something
like that.
But these, which of these mightgive you life?
(13:03):
Which of these draws you towardjesus and his body?
You know, one of the ideas isdaily.
What could it look like toreach out to a brother or a
sister, you know gender specificor the same gender daily, like,
is there the same person, arethere different people?
If you're in Awaken360 or oneof these recovery groups or
(13:23):
programs, like, is it adifferent person from your group
each day?
And that would actually beginteaching you.
You're not alone in this.
You could receive some prayer.
You're growing relationally.
Another thing is, I'd say, atleast on a weekly basis, very
easy.
If you're in Awaken orsomething like that, you have
content.
But like, what could it looklike to engage in recovery,
(13:46):
focused content, every singleweek?
I remember Josh going throughAwaken when I was a participant.
I can't help plug it because itreally did like God used it to
change my life and part of itwas when I'd sit there, you know
, engage the video, the readingand then the questions, and I
really did the questions withJesus.
I had like at least two, andthis is out of two years.
(14:07):
So I really did the questionswith Jesus.
I had like at least two, andthis is out of two years, so I'm
not saying it happened everyweek, but I had two of like the
most life-changing experiences.
Reflecting on some of thosequestions where God brought me
back into a memory, I literallycould feel my brain like felt
like it was, like it was likegoosebumps, but on my brain and
I knew God was healing me,perhaps even in my brain like,
(14:29):
wow, there there's a wisdom tonot overdoing the recovery I
know some guys benefit from.
Hey, I need to go to a groupevery single day for a season,
but but at the very least, Ithink we need to find ways to
invest in particular ways.
One idea for monthly I guess I'mjust going to list one for each
at this rate, but one idea formonthly.
(14:49):
What could a monthly fast looklike?
A 24 hour could be more, couldbe less, but a food and or a
tech fast, and I throw the ideaof a tech fast in, because when
we actually take that break fromtechnology, I've noticed and
this was in my 2023 rule of lifeit's dropped out of my life.
I used to do a monthly techfast and if I, if I planned it
(15:11):
well and I had a meal with thisfriend and I had this time with
my wife and I went on a walkhere like it was so joyful and
by the end of the day, into thenext day, I felt more alive than
I'd felt in weeks, which showsyou know, the research shows
these things don't actuallybring us I'm holding on my phone
for those not watching theYouTube video but these things
(15:33):
don't actually bring us as muchlife as they're promising.
And so, whether it's with techlike I just shared, or food
teaching yourself, I don'tactually need food.
Obviously, we need food in thelong run, somewhere between 22
to 40 days, your body startseating away at its organs
without food, so we do need food.
That's a whole interestingconversation we can reference in
(15:53):
the show notes where I got that, which is Richard Foster's
Celebration of Discipline.
He talks about the details offasting, but Jesus did a literal
40-day food fast and I knowpeople who have done that too
Wild.
It's a little maybe extreme forsome of the listeners here, but
but what could a monthly24-hour fast look like?
Teaching yourself I don't needfood for this day, I need the
(16:15):
lord in this place.
And what?
How?
How might his power show up?
Like teaching you to say no tothis very real desire and, yeah,
longer term need versus withsex?
We don't actually need sex.
You've hopefully heard that fromus before, but you're saying
I'm going to say no to thisthing that, yeah, in the long
(16:37):
run, I do need so that God cancome and fill in some of these
places.
And it's teaching you some ofthat Yearly.
It might be a retreat.
We're actually having ourawakened retreat again this fall
in October.
Some guys found that reallylife-changing like getting away
with a group of like-mindedbelievers to get after some
stuff.
That could be a really powerfulkind of you know, refreshment
(17:00):
in this journey.
Those are just four, four ideasright off the top, josh, I'm
sure there's many, many more.
You stole all mine.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So that's fantastic.
The other thing I'd add aboutfasting is that and there's more
mystery to it than this, but itis among the spiritual
disciplines it has a uniqueplace, related to sexuality, in
that we feel the longing in ourbodies, and so it is teaching
our bodies that we can say no.
We can say no I don't mean thatover and against our bodies and
(17:28):
so it is teaching our bodiesthat we can say no.
We can say no, Um.
I don't mean that over andagainst our bodies.
What I mean is that our bodiescan say no, Um.
One of the things I love to dowhen I fast is, when I feel
hunger pangs, to turn that asprayer to the Lord with a simple
I hunger and thirst for you,Lord, I long for you most of all
, and that's been reallymeaningful to me.
(17:48):
John Mark Comer actuallyteaches that in the early church
, a lot of people it was apretty regular thing for a long,
long time would fast two days aweek, from sunup till sundown,
and that's something that in themodern era we've really lost.
Fasting is kind of a uniquething.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I've actually heard some of our roman catholic
brothers and sisters they, theyfast from meat on fridays,
still to this day.
I'm like, oh okay, you're doingsomething each week to remind
yourself like you don't live onbread alone.
Like jesus would say like yeah,some of the things our bodies
wants it doesn't need, in thatmoment at least, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Right, exactly, exactly, um, uh, two others that
I'd include, like for earlyrecovery, I'd say at least, and
I'd include this in the kind ofthe idea of you going to a group
, as you described, every weekconfession.
So confession is typically a, ait is included in a recovery
group, um, but confessing,getting it all out, what did you
(18:48):
do this week?
What are the sins that youcommitted, and saying them plain
.
I'm a, I'm a big fan of that.
I had a mentor at one point whoreally helped me with that,
like I, I had so much, I don'tknow, like fat and fluff around
my confession.
Sometimes you just say, josh,just say what you did, like um,
um, kind of stripped it of allthe justification or the nuance
(19:08):
or whatever.
Just to say like, yeah, Ilusted after women in porn for
two hours.
You know it's hard to say.
The point isn't that it's hard,it's just, it's just confession
, bring it into the light, dragit into the light.
And you do this not tohumiliate yourself, not shame
yourself.
You do it as as an um agreementthat you are actually made for
(19:29):
the light, and the fact thatthis stuff doesn't like the
light is evidence that it'sreally not a part of you.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's not meant to be a part of you, um there's also
promises in Proverbs 28, infirst John and in the book of
James, like healing can comethrough confession, purification
, forgiveness, mercy.
Uh, there's some reallybeautiful promises in scripture
that come from that.
Just, I'm getting it out.
I'm being honest with God andothers.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah, and others, I think is a key, key
part of that, always for me, aspart of a rule of life and
recovery for me.
And then the other, the othercouple that I'd say one is, is
communion or Eucharist.
This may not be a weekly thing,depending on your, your
Christian tradition, but withwith a heart that and a mind
(20:17):
that recognizes and believes,takes God at his word, there is
something happening that we arein some mysterious way taking
the body and blood of Jesus intoourselves and united ourselves
with him.
And no matter your churchdenomination most at least,
mainline denominations agreethat this is a sacrament,
(20:39):
meaning that there is grace.
Sacrament meaning that there'sgrace applied to you even beyond
your ability to conceive ofwhat's happening.
Um, uh, so so take it with that, with that sense of God.
I need you, uh, my body alonejust keeps going to sin.
I need you in me, I need yourholiness in me.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Um, yeah, one, one way that that's been a common
place of common ground actuallyfor church history for most
Christians is whether or not yougo as far as transubstantiation
, like our Roman Catholicbrothers and sisters, or you
kind of lean toward thememorialistic, like this is just
in remembrance.
Most could agree on this ideaof real presence.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Some mysterious way there's a real sense that god is
, he's present, in that jesus ispresent, in that he wants to
work, work in and through you,in that, in that meal exactly,
and isn't it a beautiful thingthat that jesus recognizes that
in our bodies, our flesh alonewithout him we are, we do
harmful, hurtful things toourselves, others, we, we sin
(21:39):
sexually, etc.
Um, and it is.
It is this beautiful expressionof him giving his body that
doesn't do that to people, thatdoesn't devour people with our
lustful looks or with ourgrasping hands or, uh, sexual
hookups, but rather, um, hegives his body, his naked body
on the cross for us.
This is my body, given for you,and so we take his body into
(22:02):
our bodies that we might becomemore like him as we and we take
his body.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, sorry to cut in , but we take his body instead
of taking the body of ourunwilling victims.
That sounds weird the way Ijust put it.
But but like I know that peoplemight consent to be in
pornography or this or that, butlike we're using these people
who don't really know whatthey're giving and they're not
actually giving themselves in away that is like Jesus and
(22:29):
instead we're saying Jesus gavehimself to me.
I mean, it's kind of wild tothink about like that.
Yeah, he's meant to be the onethat we're consuming.
In a sense, he's meant to bethe one that we're consuming.
In a sense, he's the one whowanted to die for us so that we
may live.
Can I just throw two more inJosh?
Two more, yeah, let me.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Let me say say one more before you do, because it
fits with what you're justsharing, and this is something I
didn't do in early recovery butI've, I've learned to do since.
I think it's really helpful.
You can look up when I havetime to get into it, what a
(23:07):
daily examen is, where you callit through your day for moments
where there's resonance ordissonance with the Lord.
But one of the places I thinkthat's valuable to do that on a
daily basis, if you can, is tojust reflect on how you have
seen people.
Did you see them as objects ordid you see them as human
persons?
Did you see them, in otherwords, do you see them through
the eyes of lust or did you seethem as objects, or did you see
them as human persons?
Did you see them, in otherwords, do you see them through
the eyes of lust or did you seethem through the eyes of
Christ's love?
And that goes well beyond lust,because there are so many ways
(23:28):
that we might view people justkind of with, with loathing or
with.
You know they're, they're anobstacle in my way.
They slowed me down, you know,I, I, they look terrible,
whatever, whatever it might be,all the ways that we kind of
look at people and just see them, like the Pharisee and John in
uh in Luke seven did, is just a,you know, a sinner, rather than
an actual human person, a manor woman.
(23:48):
And I think, meditating ontaking some time just to reflect
on that and and again, not toshame ourselves but to invite
Jesus into that Lord, I, Ididn't see a person I just saw a
subject, but that's a person.
Would you help me see peoplewhen I look here or there, when
I'm exposed to the image of aperson?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
There are many ways to do the examine.
But as someone who works fromhome, I don't have a drive
commute, except for when I'mvisiting the team out in
Baltimore a few times a year.
But I would do this dailycommute where I do a 10 minute
loop around the block after work, and I would do this daily
commute where I do a 10 minuteloop around the block after work
and I would do something likean exam and we'll put an example
in the show notes.
But I now don't do that becauseI'm doing other things.
(24:26):
But I shower after work andthat's a great opportunity to
reflect on the day with the Lord.
Can you invite the Lord eventhere?
Not put on music.
Or, if you're in your car, notput on the radio.
Pause this podcast, whateverthat not put on the radio.
Pause this podcast, whateverthat looks like, maybe just one
leg of your commute, maybe notboth, but the way home I'm going
to process my day with the Lord.
I'm going to consider how I sawpeople Two other ones that I
(24:49):
really love that are so good forrecovery and also for betrayal
situations for parents.
Celebration I mean literally thename of Richard Foster's
classic book that I referencedearlier is Celebration of
Discipline, and one of thedisciplines is celebration.
We need to celebrate, like somany of the commands in
Deuteronomy, in the Pentateuch,the first five books of the Old
(25:11):
Testament, so many of the lawsfor Israel were.
You need to celebrate thisfeast.
You need to kill your bestanimal, some of which you're
going to put on the altar.
It's completely burned away forGod, like pure sacrifice, but a
lot of it was like give it tothe priests and then they're
going to make a feast for thewhole town.
It's like you got to celebrateguys, like I got you out of this
(25:32):
place.
So what happens when you finishyour next quarter of awaken?
What happens when you hit amonth of sobriety?
We're not huge in accountingdays, but what happens when you
hit a milestone in like it'sbeen a year since my husband's
acted out, or my wife and I havebeen on this recovery journey,
or my child has not been goingto this for some time, or
(25:53):
there's been progress.
I want to take them out to icecream to celebrate that.
So marking these things with atime of celebration can be such
um, such a joyful and powerfulway to.
That could be one of your rolesof life yearly, ideally
quarterly, monthly, likesomething where it's like I'm
going to celebrate.
Even the small small-ish winslove it.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You had one more.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I got so excited about that that I might have
lost that.
But let me just throw out thislast thought.
Willard argues that everythingwe allow into our minds has
either a positive or negativeeffect on us.
I don't know if he's rightabout that.
About that I genuinely I'vethought about.
(26:40):
I'm like is that?
Could that really be true thatthere's not anything that's
really neutral that we allowinto our minds and someone like
me can take that legalistically.
I know that tendency in myself.
But I want you to consider whenyou think about this idea of
rule of life, are there thingsthat I'm letting in 10 steps
before I give into porn?
Like do I need a part of myrule of life is in this season,
(27:02):
I'm going to cancel mysubscription to Netflix.
In this season I'm going tochoose to.
You know, if I'm going to watchmedia, it's going to be things
that you know are particularlyedifying.
Again, if you have a legalistictendency, I want you to take
all of that with a grain of salt, take it prayerfully.
But like could there actuallybe some joy?
Could your mind get more freedup?
(27:23):
Hey, on Wednesday nights I'mnot going to do any electronics
after work because I'm going togive my mind some room to
breathe.
I'm going to be more focused onmy family.
Like, are there ways that youcan actually structure to not
allow those you know rules oflife from the world to have so
much stake in your household,like the TV representing that
(27:44):
trellis of the worldly rule oflife for some of us, or the you
know the phone or whatever?
Like, are there ways you canactually decrease some of the
thoughts that are coming intoyour mind?
Willard would say that we havea free will but it's weak.
I appreciate that it's kind ofa middle ground between some of
those debates.
But we have a will that's freebut it is weak.
And our most powerful choice iswhat we allow into our minds,
(28:08):
because once we've allowedsomething into our minds it's a
lot harder to respond well to it.
But choosing what we even allowin can be part of our rules
life.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, so good, and a couple.
So I'm gonna we're gonna wrapthis up.
But, like, pay attention,especially as you think about
this podcast, those ideas of thethings you might introduce into
your life, that you actuallyfelt a tinge of joy around, like
that could be cool.
So good, pay attention to thatand start there.
God's not looking to like, youknow, create a you know a dour
(28:46):
list of things for you to do.
Um, so start with the thingsthat actually, that feels really
good.
I like that idea.
Also, don't do all these things.
Pick one or two, just begin.
Um, if you're, if you're reallyout of control in your behaviors
, you might need support toactually introduce a number of
things pretty quickly.
But get some help with that.
You don't need to do the heavylifting on your own.
So where have we been?
Everybody needs a rule of life.
(29:07):
Everybody has a rule of life,whether it's something that
they've been given or somethingthat they are, um, they're doing
themselves.
Uh, and we, we believe thatthose in recovery are not the
exception of the rule, in thatthey just have a, maybe a
specific point in their liveswhere it's most, it's especially
important.
They have a rule of life and,brothers and sisters, you don't,
(29:30):
you don't, you're not gonna getpast that this side of heaven.
And that's not bad news.
It's actually really reallygood news.
In the same way that it'sreally really good news for a
great musician to have time topractice every day and the joy
that he or she experiences whenthey sit and play a masterful
piece that they've learned andit's taken a lot of work to do.
They are free at that keyboardand God desires you and me, to
(29:55):
be free in the, in our bodies,not to be constrained by sexual
sin or other habits that draw usaway.
So, jesus, um, we pray againstlegalism.
We pray against any image oraccusation of the enemy against
you that says you just want usto do a bunch of things and
you're dour faced, and againstjoy.
Lord, you have eternalpleasures at your right hand and
(30:18):
all you invite us into Lord isfor our good, not because you
need us to do something, notbecause you're mean, but because
you want us to be free andalive, fully alive.
Lord, we want that too.
We pray that for us.
We pray it for our listeners inJesus name.
Amen, amen, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!