June 10, 2025 • 55 mins
The pressure to work more, constantly comparing yourself to other people, the endless list of self-improvement 'shoulds', and even full blown mental health struggles - what do we do when the biggest obstacles are the ones inside our own heads?
Comedian Chris Ryan might not have every answer, but in this chat with Osher, she certainly has a way of illuminating the problems.
For tickets to show Extreme Tenant (Melbourne only, sorry) head here
Pre-order “So What, Now What?”
Story Club LIVE, Tickets here for July 6th Factory Theatre Marrickville
Ft. Marlee Silva, Merrick Watts, Phil O’Neill and Nadia Townsend, Zoë Norton Lodge and Osher Günsberg.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Why have we made it so hard for ourselves? Why
are we trying to be geniuses? Have podcasts, be uberfit,
eat the right things, drink the right amount of coffee?
Do you know? Genuinely? I think the best I can
do now is get find things that put me in
a flow state so I can forget I exist. I'm
sick of me.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Comedy, stand up comedy particularly, there is this idea of material,
So when you go to see a comedy show, you
think of the material as the joke, but is it
really when you really think about it, it's not what
the person's saying. It's who they are. It's their life,
their thoughts, their experiences, their perspectives, their goals, who they are,
(00:41):
what they've been through, and then using the method of
stand up comedy to communicate that to you, because that's
what got them to where they are on stage, and
it got you there to go and see them, and
you feel you could relate to that person on stage,
and that's how you laugh. And that's just not true
for comedy. It's true for everything we do, no matter
(01:03):
what other tools are involved or what we're making, the
lives we live, that's the material. That's the stuff that
we're working with and that can help us or it
can hinder us in our careers. And then my guest today,
she has some amazing material and many great thoughts. I
adore this person. I know you will too. It's coming
(01:24):
up right after the break. Welcome to the show. This
is better than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations to
help make your day better than yesterday. Every episode since
since twenty thirteen. I've been here twelve years. You think
I could say that date right? Probably not good. My
name's Oshi Ginsburg. Thanks for being here. The pre orders
(01:45):
for the book are pumping along. Thank you so much.
Books out the fifth of August. Please, if you want
to pre order the book, there's a link in the
show notes when you bought it, screenshot your proof of purchase,
email it to me. Send us your email at gmail
dot comment. I will send you something special. Going to
be talking about this quite a bit. I'm going to
talk about it every week, so I think I should
probably at least try to write a jingle to help
(02:05):
you want to buy this new book. The book's called
So What Now What? You can get it right now
pre order. It's out on the fifth foregust, hang on,
how's it go? Let me just just pick up my ukulele.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Okay, so your laughs cut it shit right now, and
you think you've missed your shit, Grab a copy of
my new book I.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Wrote and Cabal Walker illustrated. It's called So what Now?
What got a career in advertising ahead of me? Oh? Well,
I think it has been an advertising. Story Club back.
We took June off because we did a show on
the Central Post and we are back sixth of July
(02:53):
at the Factory Theater in Marrickville, cracking lineup. Last week's
guest Merrick Watts and Marley Silvera who they're both of
me guess on the show. They'll be joining us, as
will actress Nadia Townsend, actress and dramaturg Nadia Townsend, she's fantastic.
And Phil O'Neil. Yeah, Phil O'Neill, you may know whom
as ugly Phil will be joining us at Zoe Norton
(03:15):
Lodge and myself story clublive dot com for tickets. Speaking
of tickets to fun things, because story Club is a
live comedy storytelling show that I do once a month
and I love you come along. It's a lot of fun.
Speaking of live things, there is a twenty percent discount
for you to get along to Chris Ryan's show this
Friday night in Melbourne at the Basement. We've got a
promo code. I'll give it to you a little later on,
because you know I started in commercial radio. What am
(03:37):
I gonna do not tease the promo code the links
in the show notes. But if you want the promo code,
we'll keep listening because my guest today is the amazing,
wonderful comedian Chris Ryan. I've had the great pleasure of
working with her. She wrote on the news show that
I did at the Comedy Festival for a couple of
years and the show that we piloted TN and and
N a lot of fun. She's just fantastic. Chris Ryan
(04:00):
won the Best Newcomer Award a couple of years back,
but despite that, her dive into comedy came later than
it does for many other people. It only came after
a year's long struggle with post natal depression. However, it
is those circumstances, those circumstances of her life that make
her voice on stage so very valuable. Today, Chris is
going to talk about the challenges that we can present
(04:22):
to ourselves, and also how we try to deal with
those challenges, her love of storytelling, the pressure she feels
to always do more, her advice to aspiring comedians, and
fitting with the name of her brand new show, it's
called Extreme Tenant. There's a bit of work there on
how much it sucks to be a renter in Australia.
(04:42):
If you've never known Chris Ryan before, I'm so happy
for you because you get to meet this extraordinary woman
right now. I'm happy to have you here, Chris Let. Yeah,
how are you.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I don't know, I'm good mate, Yeah, you're right, yea
and bits three to walk to he his house.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You walked here from Heggy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
But then at the last minute, I just jumped on
a tram just a couple of stops, just to quicken
it up a bit, just in time to get a
beautiful coffee.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
This isn't Canberra, dude, Like it's quite far everywhere, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah. Camber' is like, oh I.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
No, But it wasn't like I invented the idea of walking.
Luke Keggy, who literally lives here. It was like, yeah,
you can walk there, And I was like Okay, well,
then I guess I better.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Walk Heggy's Heggy is a he is a self propelled
transport now is from way back. And I know for
a fact that, yeah, I know I have.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That effect on people perrimenopause.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
No, I know for a fact that at one point
you thought it was a really good idea to finish
a gig at the factory in Marrickville and go Yeah.
Heggy said, yeah, you can walk to Couljie. And so
when yeah, I walked Coulgie not realizing it was like
a fucking forearm.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That's the literal walk I did in twenty nineteen. I know,
I know you did that walk from the truck shop
a miracle in any more road that truck shop. I
walked to Couljie with a really heavy backpack full of stuff.
I'd done four gigs that night, including an hour solo,
and I just listened to podcasts and music and I
(06:14):
walked and walked and walked and walked because I thought, oh,
this is too easy. I've had it too easy. I
need to suffer a bit. What Yeah, seriously. And I
also didn't have enough money for an uber that in
my like in my business comedy account at the time,
which had like twenty cents in it. So and I
was too proud to use the family's money to get
(06:34):
an uber, so I thought, no, I'm going to walk
or so I was drunk.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
There's a lot of fact a lot of factors there,
and somewhere along the way there would have been a
very interestingly balanced wae M front lawn.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, I believe that there was. I believe that there was. Yes, yes,
I did that. Yeah, you've just reminded me of it.
Although there was no one around, absolutely no one around.
There was parts where there were no.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
One not sketchy as sketchy bits going from where you were.
You've got to walk across the back of botany and stuff,
which is.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I was also listening to the podcast serial.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Great like that'll you know that'll get your step count up?
I think Ryan that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Day, I think I did twenty five thousand steps.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Need you done? Then you're done? Coolly year coo. I'm
so happy that ye are here on this show. You
and I have known each other for a while now, yeah,
and I am all my work is better for knowing you.
I have to say that people may not realize though
(07:45):
I talk a bit about it doing this news show
for the Comedy Festival two years in a row. I
needed help writing it, and you came on board as
a writer for that with unbelievable credibility, because not only
are you a highly successful stand up you also have
background of journalism.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh gosh, this is extremely kind. I'm very uncomfortable with
it because I don't think I did a good enough
job for your show. Anyway, I'm glad you're happy.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Are you kidding me? Your stuff? What I loved about
doing that show? And in the words of Ron Bergundy's
boss and and command, diversity is not an old old
ship and I have slightly different views of the diversity
to what may be the common views of diversity. I
(08:30):
am far more about diversity of ideas and diversity of
economic background. Interesting for me, those two things will take
care of all of the other things, but those ideas
are where for me is most important to have diversity
because I am a straight white man boy who grew
(08:52):
up in the suburbs of Brisbane, and I will miss
every joke that someone like you can see because I
simply can't see them. They are invisible to me, all right.
Like when Audrey first ever took Wolfgang for a bushwhee.
I had to shout to her, honey, honey, back to
the wind. She's like, oh, of course it didn't occur
to her because because she's never had to. Yes, of course,
(09:17):
worry about that.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah we have gravity, Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You're like ladies, it's just as long as your feet
are along the full wine, you're fine. You know, all
on for downhill right with fellas, You've got to think about.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
That and wind we jumped to a different.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Sometimes getting that ven diagrammed crossover is difficult. The stuff
you write about wage inequality and workplace conditions and stuff
like that was so fucking excellent.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Thanks man, that's so kind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It was real cool. But also knowing that you'd been
in a newsroom and you've done that as a as
a job was also really useful for us, I think,
because it really made the whole thing authentic.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I remember I first learned journalism a small regional town
called Maria down the south coast of New South Wales,
and one of my first tasks was as a cadet.
I was in charge of the property section and I
had to find verbs for headlines about property. Every headline
had to have a verb in it. Now, that doesn't
(10:17):
sound that hard, but if you think about it, it is.
You know, luxury villa escapes road noise. I don't know,
you know, like I don't know, you know, grabs views,
family home delights viewers. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
One bedroom, moldy fiber transports from the bustle and bustle.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, transformed into yeavana. Yeah, So it's fun. It's I
loved being a journal being in a newsroom with other
people who had to to turn a story into as
little as possible, be very economical with words, and learn
to do that upside down triangle thing, imagining that no
(11:09):
one's going to read past possibly the headline, but if
they do, you better have the guts of the story
in the first line, or even lost them.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And all of that stuff is exceptional training for stand
up it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Is, actually, in my view, Yeah, I think it is.
And it was fun being around people who were always
looking at all the different angles of something. As a
journal you were not meant to really have an opinion,
you know, Like, I know that sounds so naive and
ludicrous in this world, but honestly, when I started journalism,
(11:44):
I was so earnest, and I truly wanted to have
no opinion. I wanted to just give all the facts
and try and present it without any influence or whatever.
And I remember at the time, well, a friend of
mine was very cynical and he was like, the media,
it's just toxic and it's broken, and I'm like, and
(12:05):
I took it really to heart. Well, I said, well,
I'm the media and that hurts dear. But there were
journos and they were telling stories from regional Australia. And
now I ran into a journo actually from down there
at a gig. She said, they're all gone. You know,
(12:27):
there's no there are no journos. There are no independent
papers anymore, really not many. And it's such a shame
those stories aren't being told anymore except perhaps by one
journo that's maybe a scout for all of the region.
Or you can imagine those stories just start to go away.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
What happens to us as a country when we start
to lose that lens on life that isn't in the
lens of the major news organizations.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, and I don't think it's
good though.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
What was the noise of the newsroom like.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Very a lot of chatter. There was a lot of
people on phones doing interviews. There was sometimes there was
this lovely old woman called June. She would have been
like seventy five. I think she retired at seventy eight
or something like. And she was the court reporter and
the council report and she's tough as nails. She had
a big helmet of white blonde hair and makeup perfection
(13:23):
and a suit every day. And June didn't take any shit,
and she was always having loud conversations. There was always
the people taking phone calls for people wanting to put
stuff in the what's it called classifieds selling a bike
or selling a house or whatever. Lots of laughter as well,
God we laughed. I remember I wanted to try out
(13:46):
TV journalism at one point I thought, oh maybe I
could get into that. And this is something that happened
that I later turned into a joke. So sorry doing
bits on you, but it's when the art is life,
you know. Like I had to film a show real
which you would understand, and I didn't have anything obviously,
so I hired a bloke to film this and I
made up a bullshit story about crime in an hour.
(14:08):
I was living an hour at the top, but I
wanted to I got it. I had a suit, a
lilac suit. It was the nineties. But I wanted a haircut,
like I wanted a good I went into this is
the bit, and it's just what happened, But this is
the bit. I went into naraw Just Cuts, came out
looking like Ray Martin. I did. I wanted a short haircut,
(14:30):
but this guy cut me a Ray.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Martin, and I'm going for a news journal. But it
was terrible.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It was so terrible. And I went into the bathroom
at the South Coast Register, the paper that I worked at,
and I wouldn't come out. I was just standing there
looking in the mirror, pulling at my hair, hoping it
would get longer quicker than it's humanly possible for it
to do. And they were my colleagues, my mates, were
standing on the other side of the door, going, you've
got to let us see it. Eventually, you can't stay
in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You're lucky you went into Just Cuts then, because after like,
they only had two haircuts at that point, you know,
they had the Jamo and the Ray Martin. That was it,
and now it's and then for like ten years it
was a Danya that was all you got. Oh yeah,
because Daniel was there, you know, he had it on
his race car.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And it was a little life stoleed cardboard card out
of Grant denya. And I don't mean that injo like
it was. Actually, that's how big he is. That's no,
it's not a joke. That's how big Grand Januar is. Yep,
there he is. Most people bothered when they see him
for the first time, like, are you not a jockey? No? No, no,
he's an incredibly talented game show most Yeah, and the
(15:34):
caramean love him beause they could sit down.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Oh come on.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I don't want us to romanticize too much about it,
but the idea of the journalist hero, the one who's
there to save us from shitty democracy going in shitty
directions is I don't know if that's really there anymore,
because now it's I'm aligned with this political party and
we're at the lefties, or we're at the workis, or
(15:59):
we're at the you know, the right wing. It is,
rather than you and me together and everyone is after us,
which it was.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I think you're right that's exactly. That's the change
that's happened. And I think whilst I never had that
bravado of like, yeah, I'm going to be deceivior, I
did want to do the right thing, and you know,
in my tiny little way, I got to tell a
few people's stories with them and it was brilliant. I
love that job. It was a great job.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And that kind of journalism, which is with the public
interest at heart, I think we just we cannot we
can't lose it. We miss it so important.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
There are individuals I think online and social media and
stuff who I notice are you know, they say things
and they do things by themselves, and they write their
independent stories and such. But yeah, the era of thinking
you can trust the media is over, and that's sad.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
With your kids when they're watching news, did you talk
to them about this is how you can tell truth,
fact whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
To be honest, we didn't watch the news with our kids.
We didn't. We just didn't watch the news because it
was all car crashes and political intrigue and celebrity breakups.
And I don't care and I didn't feel the need
to push that on them.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Do they keep themselves informed about the way.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh, my kids are very smart. You know, I don't
need to worry about, you know, whether they're getting information.
They've got it sort of, I don't. That's past I'm
past it, you know, like my kids are. Yeah, I
have a new bit in my show this year about
how green they are. They're just so green that if
I go to the shops, I feel like an oligarch,
(17:36):
you know, like I can't even enjoy going to shops
anymore to relax because they'll be like, you can get
that at Vinears, you know, and I love going to you.
I go to off shops all the time. I've got
too much stuff from off shops. But just this idea
that there, even though I'm trying to do the right thing,
you know, it's never enough. And you know, they're they
(17:58):
know what's happening out there, and it worries them. And I,
you know, obviously I worry too. Environmental stuff is huge
in our family, and even having purpose and not just
wanting to live a life where you make money. There's
a lot of young I'm going to say from my experience,
there are a lot of young people coming out of school,
(18:19):
and I'm going to say private school, but hey, maybe
it's both that are just sort of they want to
somehow skim money out of society without very much effort,
and they want that to be their life, and they
can't really understand why that's not a real thing and
not something you should aspire to because you have a
very unhappy life. You should be wanting to contribute to society.
(18:43):
What can I do? Not what can I get? I
don't know. My kids are. I'm very proud of where
they are, you know, mentally and emotionally, and you know,
within the community.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
How old were they when you realized, oh shit, they're.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Real smart, oh very young.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And were you at the same time proud and real
annoyed because oh no, no authority.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Now I wasn't. I wasn't annoyed.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
One bit that I've always had, which is pretty much
to the you don' I never wrote much about my kids,
not a lot, because because you write about dumb stuff, right,
and my kids are dumb. So it was kind of
like I missed out on that. But my son always
loved reading from a young age, and he'd read vaciously,
you know, and one day he was probably about five
or six, even I don't know, younger and he was.
(19:32):
He was talking about this book he was reading where
the character wielded his tried and magnificently, and I looked
at him. I went, and this is just verbatim. I
just said, Wow, I'm like forty eight. I've never used
the word whatever, forty I've never used the word wield
in a sentence. Pretty good on the old word his son,
And he goes, Mum, I have a good vocabulary, you know.
And that was it, And that was the punchline.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Back up, mum, back it up. I recall I think
I was about I was forty. I'm thirty years older
than ge my step daughter, she was eleven, so i'd
only I've been living with her and her mum for
less than a year, and she was doing something that
probably shouldn't be doing, she shouldn't have been doing, and
I was annoyed at it, and I was trying to
(20:15):
do my very best to let her know that, look,
that's not okay, what's happening right now, There's ways to
do this, and that's not it. And she was coming
with some very strong logic and really well put together
points yea, and very reasonable justifications for behavior, and I
was real pissed off because in my head, I'm like, fuck,
(20:36):
this argument was one you are don't ever stop being.
You are standing up till forty one year old man
with very very clever logic, and this is a really
good argument on your behalf. And I'm really so proud
of you because you're so small and I'm much taller
than you, and here you are holding your own and
I'm very proud of you, and you're really annoying because
(20:57):
at the core of it, it was like still not okay,
what was all right? It's not you know, but you're
you're figuring stuff out. I'm so proud of it. And
Wolfe's the same, he's so fucking smart like you.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's ford, isn't it that you want the next generation
to be better.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Than you have to? That's all you're here, it's all.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
We're here for. The worst outcome I think as a
parent would be to raise a child that you love
but you don't like, Oh my god, you know that
you care for but you don't understand that you do
not share values. I reckon that would be the worst outcome. Yeah,
and it's easier for that to happen these days with
(21:35):
social media. I fear that young people are seeing so
much of stuff that's not real. So, for example, young
people who are influencers and paid to be trying products
on Insta or whatever, and they've got this lifestyle where
they're just having fun. I finished school and whatever, and
(21:57):
it's not real.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Like when I finished school, I was a loser. I
knew I was at the bottom of the friggin ladder.
I would have to work. I had no money, even
though I had wealthy parents. Let me tell you had
I came from privilege, but I was told they didn't
say these words, but this was my understanding. Look, you're
(22:20):
basically a dead shit now you finish school, hippie parae.
But this is where it starts. You become a person. Now.
You don't deserve anything. You are not entitled to party
and have a gap. Yeah you know. You are not
entitled to stay in my house, piss away your weekends,
(22:42):
save up money for your trip overseas while I'm paying
a motherfucking mortgage. Sorry if that's bad language. I think
there are too many young people who think they should
be having this sick life, when in fact, all they
can do is get a job working in a restaurant
right now, and it's going to suck shit. Yeah, And
that's how it is.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah. Part of the problem, I feel, oh, is the yes,
you see the footage of this person, I haven't that gap. Yeah,
you don't see the hundreds of hours of shit restaurant
work or whatever that person has done.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
The mum and dad gave them money.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's also that you don't see that. You don't see
that part. You don't see all that work. You know.
When I started on idol, people are like, oh my god,
you just turn up overnight. I've been working six days
a week since I was seventeen and I'm now twenty nine. No,
I haven't turned up over night. No, I've just worked
my fucking asshole. Yes's and that's how like, that's what
(23:44):
it is. And I'm sure you know I talked to
Luke about this quite a bit. And this is what
open mic nights are four And this is what you know.
Lineup shows are for. Is for people who just get
out there and take it in the face and stand
up comedy is one of the if probably the most
hardcore job to willingly walk into. It is willingly walking
(24:07):
up to a firing squad every night knowing you're going
to get shot. Some people just don't have the guts
to get up and do it again after they get
done once right, And I hear look talk about it
then that there is an expectation that I will get
up and you all will laugh at me, because that's
what I've seen the video on TikTok about and next
(24:29):
stop Enmore and why isn't happening now?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, everyone wants to kill a five minute set so
they can win raw comedy and become a national hero overnight.
That's what's happening. I get a few people every now
and then reach out to me and ask, oh, can
we have a coffee and we talk about my career
and I want to have a career in comedy, and
I'm like, oh, fuck, here we go. And I'm quite
judicious about who I will talk to. And I always
(24:54):
said there's no shortcut, and Hegge says this too, there's
no shortcut. You just have to keep going. And it
doesn't make it. It's not rational. You won't make money,
you'll be disappointed, it'll hurt. You'll see people that you
think are shit doing better than you, and you'll be
like the world is unfair. Why am I doing this?
So be prepared if that's what you're after. But if
you're after some shiny spotlight immediately, you might even get
(25:17):
that once. But even after you've had that, it won't
come again necessarily. Ever, you have to just want to
keep going by yourself. And it's sort of like life, really,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
All Right, We're going to take a break from Chris
Ryan by now you're like, I've got to go see
this show on Friday night. She's at the Basement Comedy
Club in Melbourne and you can get tickets for that.
The link is in the show notes and if you
want twenty percent off, you just click Unlock in the
top of the little green page. There you can see
unlocked right in the word extreme. Like the metal band
that I really love that when did a soft rock
(25:53):
song called more than Words, which ended up being their
biggest hit, but it made me sad, but they were
really fun bad. Yeah, Extreme is the offer code you
get twenty percent off thirty five dollars tickets becomes twenty
eight and you're welcome because I said, hey, can we
do an offer code? I said sure, So there you go.
That's just for you. Nobody else is getting that. The
links in the show notes back in a minute with
more from Chris Ryan. The only thing I think you
(26:20):
can really control, and I tell you this was told
to me by my old manager when I lived in
the States. He said, only you know how hard you
work to make your dreams come true. All you can
control is your effort, all right. You can't control how
much talent you've got.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
God, sometimes you can't even control your effort. Oh so
that's probably where I fall down.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It takes a lot of effort to walk from and
water couldie, that's a lot of effort.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I was thinking about this, thinking about talking to you, like,
I think one of the greatest challenges is yourself right
in life obviously, if you've got any brains yet all yeah, unfortunately,
is like what is it that you're running from? You know, Like,
what is it that you run from? And I spent
a lot of time touring and look just quietly in
(27:05):
case I sound miserable and depressed and like ungrateful. I
fucking love my life. It's a fucking best I can't
believe this is a job. I can't believe my luck.
It's unbelievable. Yeah, so that being.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
What's really hard.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
That being said, it never really feels like I work
that hard anyway. I'm sure I do, It's evident I
have apparently, but it never really I never really feel
like I'm truly doing the enough work. And and I
do feel like I spent a lot of time fucking
going to op shops and faffing about on tour, you know,
like I could spend my days gruelingly stuck to the
(27:40):
desk and writing. Do I nope, you know, do I
go for random walks and look in op shops at
the things I don't need to buy?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
It?
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yes, I'm an idiot, we all are. It's like I'm
scared of my capacity, right. I don't know if even
that's true. I don't know what the truth is. I
just think I could work harder, and I'm not sure
where to point that energy direction.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I would argue to you that the act of wandering
around an op shop in a town that you're doing
a gig at is actually work, because your job is
to have your subconscious put together raw information, run it
through the filter of the lens of which you look
through life new information, and then pop that out to
(28:28):
bring a new idea on stage and combining these two
unknown things hither too, there is the joke. And unless
you have walked around the op shop at the back
of Port Lincoln and gone, holy fuck, yeah the how's
that board game that is terrible? Oh yeah, that's right,
that's somewhere at the beach house. Bang bang bang, there
(28:49):
you are.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
However, that is very kind of you to be so
generous to me. However, you're not doing that, osha. You're
doing podcasts and television things, and you're working your face off.
I'm out looking at bloody opshops getting another pair of
jeans that I don't I mean, you've got a gig
that night.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I'm not. Oh you must, no, dude, like, come on, no,
you want to talk about my career uncertainty. Oh dear god,
I haven't done a contracted TV just in two years.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I find that so hard to believe.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I feel like you're not even speaking English, right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
No, really, I've been nominated for a Gold LOGI and
went to unemployment.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That sucks balls.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Man Grant Daniel won one when he had no job.
It's a fuck just industry audio guys that are mowing lawns, right, now, No,
your gig, your job is secure. I am busy trying
to fucking figure something else to do because no one's
making the kind of TV that I'm good at making.
(29:45):
It's too expensive, it's real hard, right, So I'm busy.
I'm fiendishly reinventing. But it's okay.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
But you're also you're actually doing the thing have to.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
That's all I can do. All you can do is
control your effort. I'm not mortalent than anybody else. I
just will just keep working.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That is a great quality, But there's really.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Something about I would love to be able to do
it properly, to be standing on stage and dropping a line.
And it was just that one person who makes the
kind of laugh that you know, tickle the darkest part
of them that they're embarrassed about it. I'm like, I
don't care if everyone else in this room is silent.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That guy got it me mate. But I really enjoyed
when we did that true storytelling night together.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Oh yeah up at the Central Coast.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, people's stories are extraordinary. I mean, this is why
journalism appealed to me, because I know everyone has stuff
going on at all times, and it changes all the time. Yeah,
you never run out you know, of stories really, and.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
It's just humans trying to remember that the ship I'm
going through it's not just me. Yeah, that's really it's
always about not getting up sleep, not getting enough sex,
not eating, you know, not having a connection, making a mistake,
dropping something and all.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And that's comedy too, it is.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
It's just that moment of oh, it's not just me,
it's not just me, and the lens of which you
come to comedy through is and I understand why. The
economics of it. There's not very many people in your
position that can take four nights a week away from
a family to go and test five ten minutes at
a time, you know, for a couple of hours, and
(31:20):
then come back after everyone's gone to bed. And so
the diversity of jokes of life for a you know,
a mum of some kids who's you know, this is
another part of their career and telling jokes about getting
older and stuff like that. It's a surprise to people
because I just don't hear it. It's twenty one year
olds who going to afford to just you know, abuse
(31:42):
their ADHD medication and stay out late.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I do remember when I started because like I started
in twenty twelve. I did comedy for seven years in Canberra,
not going anywhere because I had young kids and I
didn't want to, you know, I wanted to be in
camera with my kids and I would write. I remember
I wrote probably a couple of shows that I own
a full hour that I only did once in Canberra. Yeah,
(32:08):
and when I finally did go to Melbourne, a reviewer
of my first show there, where I was nominated for Newcomer,
said something like, well, there's there's already heaps of middle
aged people talking about kids and families and stuff she
(32:30):
doesn't really you know, contribute anything to or you know,
we don't need any more of them kind of thing.
It's the most ageist, frickin' comment and it feeds into
your greatest fear is, which is, oh, I'm not relevant.
Nothing I have to say matters. This is not edgy
and new and exciting. They don't want this, you know.
But I've actually recently been opening for the brilliant comedian
(32:52):
Jen Brister, who's fifty. She's from England. She's been doing
it for decades and it was only in the last
couple of year years that she's gone to a million
follows on Instagram, and it is simply because she's brilliant
and she's saying stuff that so many people want to
talk about, which is being a parent, which is how
hard it is all And you know, like this, it's
(33:16):
hard when you are doing something that your own family,
you know, like my mom you know, in her way
is proud of me, but honestly looks at what I'm
doing is.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Like like a journalism job. Remember when you had a
job at a.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Year you know, comedy really and and you know, in
many ways that's the voice in my head going, yeah,
I mean it's all good and well, but one day
you probably have to fall back on your writing or
something else. You know, there is a big part of
me just because yeah, it's all bullshit. Really, this is
all la la land stuff. That's why I never really
(33:51):
leaned into comedy until it was like I'd gone through
a dark period of depression and stuff. I thought, No,
it's all frivolous, you know, And that's not a real job.
A parent, be a decent person, get a real job.
And that's something that's deep in me. And it's not
very helpful to say the least, is it.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
No, I don't think you're alone in that though. I certainly, yeah,
I struggle with that as well. Certainly at this point
in time, when I'm looking at my mortgage repayments, eat
my offset alive like a fucking orca and a little
baby seal on an ice flow, you know, where they
take a half a white and go, I might have
the rest of it. I'm just look. I've got a
spreadsheet at home that I stare at and the Google
(34:36):
ally is rather good. It's made me a god of
spreadsheets now because I just ride in. I need this
cell to you know, take out of that every two
weeks and then output a date as to when it
hits zero. I look at it every day and go,
that's when that's where my runway runs out. I've got
to get some shit happening here. But this is important.
It's important to look at that stuff. And it's hard
to look at, but it's an important look at. And
(34:57):
so every day that I'm not, you know, meaningfully contributing
to that, I'm like, what am I doing to my family?
What am I doing fucking you know, strapping a motion
capture think to my head and trying to make a thing.
What am I doing trying to you know, make this pocket.
What fucking should I reactivate my LinkedIn account and start
going hey guys looking for what?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I can't do it, Chris, I know I can't do it, Dude,
I know.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I keep thinking I can. But then when push comes
to shove and I'm looking at the jobs and thinking, yes,
super would be nice, I think, oh, gone in the office, yuck.
You know, imagine having to I remember once starting a
job and on the very first day, and I was
in my thirties, I remember taking my first toilet break
(35:42):
and just looking in the mirror, just saying, how long
before I can leave this job?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I quit a job after three and a half hours.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Oh did you?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah? I could. I was like, I couldn't do it.
This is not for me.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Do you remember the football play Melmoninger?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Do I ever I'm from Queensland? Are you kidding me?
Of course? I remember Melmaninger.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Do you remember that gorgeous interview in I think it
was ABC Canberra Studios when he was running for parliament.
He tried to be a politician and he sat down
for his very first interview and within minutes. I can't
remember the exact question.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Oh, they got his They got him announcing his political
candidacy and resigning from politics in the same break.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
He's my hero. That is just full of integrity.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Actually, now I'm experiencing this part of it.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
You know what, No, didn't he say something like, oh
I'm screwed or not screwed? What did he say? Oh
I'm done here? Yeah, he took off the headphones, just
got up and left. And I thought, I still think
about that, like what integrity? But that's mate.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
But in those moments, we kind of think he would
have fully committed to doing it. He would have told
everyone do this. But he's still got a broadcast career.
He's still relevant. It's very important, and the baby league
is still scouts people. He's really important. But in that moment,
he might have thoughtated it's all over, but that reality
is far from the case.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
And also it's not a police matter.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I've got a really lovely friend who I used to
work for and his favorite. He's an events manager and
he's brilliant. He can handle everything, even if things are
falling apart, He'll just take a moment. He will never
show the client the terror, you know, and his philosophy
is it's not a police matter. You know, we can
He would never spend any time being angry. He would
(37:33):
just spend his energy trying to fix the problem. And
oh god, I love him his best.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
You've got these gigs in Melbourne coming on Melbourne. People
are hard hard to crack sometimes. Do you ever get
up and feel like, come on, that's a fucking good joke.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Look, I'm not that much of an edge lord. I mean, honestly,
if people are coming to my show, they know what
they're getting, you know. Finally, I think I'm starting to
find the people who actually want to hear what I've
got to say.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
You say you're not an edge lord, but I have
seen an red material from you that really can put
people in us start conversation with their own.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Oh, it can be uncomfortable. I'm not afraid of making
people go quiet. Yeah, I don't do it a lot.
I mean it's mostly laughs. Let's not pitch me as
a terrifying person. But I am not afraid. I'm actually
more afraid of not saying the thing, you know what
I mean? Like last is show, I had some stuff
(38:42):
in there. There's bits where I'm just telling it as
it is, and people will go a little bit quiet.
It won't necessarily be the laugh bit, you know. And
I stand by that because I'm more scared of never
talking about hard things than I am of silence. I'm
(39:03):
more scared of silence and never talking about the thing,
you know. So this bit that I'm thinking of Last year,
I used to have this bit on you know, how
I love other people's problems because they're easier to solve
and they don't affect you. Plus they can be fascinating,
you know. And then I talk about how we deal
with problems like some people, and this was the bit.
(39:26):
It was sort of like, prefer to focus on things
outside their control, you know, rather than fix the things
in their life, So they'll make their entire social media
personality the war in the Middle East, then deal with
their dead bedroom marriage, do you know what I mean?
And that would just flaw the audience and it got
(39:50):
to the point where it was so silent that it
was uncomfortable. And I had to just really lean into
that because I filmed that show and for the filming
I actually just like, hmm, I sort of just simmered
in it and I went, hmmm, that silence just speaks
truth to me, you know, and I don't know, that's
(40:11):
not that edgy, but the truth can be scary.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, and yet this is for me. I think the
real gift of stand up a good one or two
line joke from you like that, particularly one about the
social media profile rather than facing yourself, that can really
change someone's life. It can't. They might not realize it,
but it'll sit in the back of their head for
a little bit, permeate around.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I don't know, can lose me friends probably, I don't know,
you know, because it's all based in real life and stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
So you've got to be careful as a sober person.
I had to understand that the people who stopped texting
and calling me once I stopped drinking, they probably weren't
my friends.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, right, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
It's that. It's when I always say when I talk
about mental health and the workplace, so like, if you're
working for a place that is going to discriminate against you,
you're probably working in the wrong place. You know, speak
of mental health like you're not afraid to speak about that.
What do you think Australia kind of really gets wrong
about mums who face mental health challenges after kids.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't think I actually don't. I don't think we
have the knowledge to understand how hard it is and
how different the reality is from this image of what
a mother is. I had no words or understanding for
(41:38):
the experience of going through post natal depressions such that
I had it for three years without being diagnosed. So
I had two children and I was just, you know,
white knuckling it, just getting through. And I love them
so much, but I was terrified of someone finding out
that I was not well. I didn't even I thought
(42:00):
I was crazy. I found it so hard to do
basic things that it appeared other mothers did without even
thinking about it. They just seemed so light, you know.
I still find it hard talking about it because it
was so fundamentally challenging to who I thought I was
as a person. So I don't think Australia understands how
(42:22):
to even begin the conversation. I will forever be grateful
to my former pretty much mother in law. I was
never married, but I was in a long term relationship
and my partner's mum was a nurse, and I remember
when I was right in the guts of it, I
remember just sort of saying some things to her, and
she just quietly said to me, are you okay? And
(42:46):
she was not a threatening person. She was a good listener.
And she because I'd had people say to me prior
to that, I think you'll probably post natally depressed. You
should probably, you know. I don't think this is right,
you know. And I remember losing a friend over that
because I was like, you haven't had kids, you don't know,
Oh you don't know, don't talk to me. I was
terrified that people would say, oh, well you can't, you
(43:07):
can't keep your kids because you're too mental or something.
I thought there was something deeply wrong with me. But
Ginny she was able to just ask me without judgment,
are you okay? And I was safe enough to say, god,
I don't think so, you know. And she just three questions.
She asked, are you okay? Do you have a good GP?
(43:27):
I mean, yeah, I do actually, And then she said
do you reckon You can go see them? I went, yeah,
I probably could.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Actually.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
That was it. She didn't try and solve my problem.
She didn't try and say oh, yes, I experienced it,
or belittle it or make it smaller or change it
or fix it. She just let me admit I wasn't
feeling okay and I couldn't understand it, but that was okay.
I could talk to a doctor about that.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Giving you the gift of the agency to do something
about it, that is, in itself, is such an incredibly
important thing, because in my experience, if people are pushed
into treatment, it never worked because there's often that like, well, fuck,
I don't want to be here, but I'm here. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So you're never willing to ask yourself those real questions.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Well, my GP also shared that view. He said to me,
I am so glad you've come to see me about this.
He said, I think you've you know what you've got.
I said, no, I don't. He goes, we did the
test and everything, and he goes, you've got postonatal depression.
I think you've had it for three years. But if
I'd said anything to you, you never would have come
back to see me. So I'm glad you've come to me,
(44:40):
and that is a good GP.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I said, you're right, yeah, for people who might have
be resonating with what you're saying, what did treatment look like.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
And what I had? I was on antidepressants for a
couple of years.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
But that's not it, like you have to do other stuffs.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I went. I did a positive parenting course that was
free at the local like parenting center or something in
the act, and that was useful. The antidepressants didn't make
me happy. They gave me distance from my anger and fear,
and I felt like I was watching my life and
(45:15):
it wasn't satisfying to feel that way. But at least
I wasn't scared and angry. I felt like, okay, well,
I can relax. This is a thing. And as my children,
you know, became grown up, and as they could speak English,
finally they we could communicate and things became easier. But
you know what, It's been many many years now since then,
(45:38):
and obviously I've tried to figure myself out. I've tried,
you know, I've gone to psychologists and stuff. But only
a few years ago, it was only probably two or
three years ago I got a diagnosis of ADHD, and
being on the medication for that, it makes me sort
of look back and wonder if all of that anxiety
(45:59):
and depression was actually just ADHD a lack of dopamine
in my brain. And I know everyone's got a lot
to say about ADHD and everyone who's got it. I
was always diagnosing people, and I look, I'm guilty of
that too. But I do feel like, especially for women
of my age, it's we're the ones being diagnosed a
lot at the moment because we weren't in the studies.
(46:21):
Girls weren't in the studies. I'm relieved I still don't
have it. I'm not. I'm not the person I would
love to be. I think that's a life journey. I
don't think I will be until I'm very old. Unfortunately,
I'm trying my best, and I'm getting better every year,
like your podcast says, but I certainly am not there yet.
(46:43):
There's so many things I wish I could do better.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
But I disagree with this idea of I have arrived.
I think that is a great falsehood about life. No,
it's not. It's always this is great, This is everything
I thought it would be. I am curious about what
would happen if I got a light aircraft license. Now
(47:09):
let's go see what that's like. You know, the idea
of no, I don't ever have to change that. You know,
lifelong learning is you want to be vital for your grandkids,
you want to be able to be malleable in your
thinking and the way you move and the way your
body works. Learning is a really important part.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Of that, you know. I wish I could be more
grateful for that attitude, right, I know, But I look
at my parents, who I adore. They never put themselves
through this shit osha.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
They didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
They just lived their lives and did their Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
But the promise of the society that was set up
for them delivered, all right. I was talking to Zoe
about this when we're driving up to your mina the
other day for their story club show up there. There
was a time where you could own a house in
Sydney within twenty minutes driver the city and a weekend
at your minor on one middle class wage. And that
(48:09):
was most people. And this was the life that people
like your parents did. The promise was, you work real hard,
here's a house you can buy. It's anywhere between three
and six times your yearly wage. All right, interest rates
are going to be up there, but don't worry. The
principal is going to be Okay, you can handle it.
And there you go, and you were rewarded.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I know, But you know, life's changed now, yeah, but
they had other things going on. You know, women weren't
allowed to have careers. My mum never had one. She
was told she was stupid and she finished school early.
You know, like that happened to a lot of women. Yeah,
And I mean, god knows how many were undiagnosed ADHD
back then.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I think it was just you know, when you got engaged,
it was like, well, see.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
You, it's over for you.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
It's over for you.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
So there were other challenges. So I refute this idea
that they had it all good. I do think, yes,
I understand economically perhaps was slightly easier, but there's different
you know, they were raised differently and their parents never
fucking praise them with anything. There was no there was
no compliments. But it's a it is tempting to look
(49:24):
at the way that they've lived and think, Fuck, why
have we made it so hard for ourselves? Why are
we trying to be geniuses? Have podcasts, be uber fit,
eat the right things, drink the right amount of coffee?
Do you know? Genuinely, I think the best I can
do now is get find things that put me in
a flow state so I can forget. I exist I'm
sick of me. I'm fucking sick of me. I'm sick
(49:46):
of hearing my stories, hearing my winges, worrying about my anxieties.
I want to just pull out some fucking bamboo and no,
I'm doing no harm. That's honestly. I've started gardening, and
that if any If there's anything that puts me in
a flow state, it's ripping bamboo out by the route,
tearing ivy off the muldbew tree. It's not talking about
(50:11):
myself on stage. That's a joy. I do have a
lot of fun doing that, and there are times where
it is a flow state, but they're getting to that. Fuck,
what a pain in the ass.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
How good's gardening?
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Gardening's great.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
I learned about it from my wife. She's quite the
green thumb. Studied horticulture, brilliant, the best my child studying
or horticulture. Real good. Yeah. Yeah, we eat food in
our garden. It's so rare, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I always looked at gardeners, thought you guys have got
something going on, but I never was into it until now.
You know, I've moved into a rental and there's weeds everywhere,
and we're allowed to do what we want. So I
go out there, no one tells me what to do.
I pull the book weeds out and I think.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Good on me. I really plants were just tree bush. Yeah,
that was about my extent of botanical knowledge. And since then,
oh man, there's names involved. But there's also something about
like noticing the subtle differences in the eggplant bush out
the front in the twenty four hours it's been since
I've walked out the front to take wolfgangs again.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Like something's happening there go presence. That's it, ultimately presence
watching life.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah, that'll be my first hour stand up show, will
be me talking about gardening.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Good on you? Why not? I'm bloody doing it. My
show is called Extreme Tenant and I'm bloody talking about it.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Oh my god. Yeah, renting is fucked.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
I feel like a child asking mum for a biscuit.
Really yeah, yeah, please? Can we have some fly screens?
The Christmas beedles are landing in my hair in the shower.
It's exactly what's happening, and you never know what the
answer is going to be. Dry screens were approved, but
I asked, can you get rid of the wasps nests
around the front door. No, do it yourself at night
(51:55):
with a broomstick.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Once, when we asked the landlord through the real estate agent, oh,
would you mind getting rid of all this metal junk
that you've left on the property, including your four lease
sign that's been here since last August, they were cut.
This is my suspicion they got so cut at us
(52:19):
for daring to post about that in the little app
that we have for complaints that I got an email
from the real estate agent saying it has come to
our attention that you have a rolling chair in the
study with no carpet under it. Please get a carpet
because it can damage I know from experience it can
(52:41):
damage the wooden floors. I'm sorry, I haven't had an
inspection for six months. Are you telling me someone's peering
through the windows or what's happening?
Speaker 3 (52:49):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (52:50):
No, I was just checking since I was seeing the
old photos because you were of the metal stuff, seeing
where that all was, and I noticed. I said, well,
I've had a carpet under there for three months. I
have now gone out to office works and bought a
plastic thing for under there. But I'm confused, you know,
I genuinely love this house and would never do anything
to hurt it. What are you doing? And honestly, it
(53:11):
was so destabilizing. I was wounded because I care so
much for this fucking place. It was built in nineteen
forty seven, it's beautiful. It's falling apart. There are not
enormous cracks in the walls. But I adore it. But
for having someone just out of the blue say something like,
I notice that you've got the wheelie chair on the
(53:32):
wooden floor. It's probably trashing it. Like, what the from?
What are you doing? Why are you being like this?
I thought we were mates. I wished you happy Christmas.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
I adore you. Chris. You're the best. You're playing Where
are your novel? What's the gig you playing?
Speaker 1 (53:50):
R It's the Basement. I'm doing my show twice in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Well may you have excellent, excellent fucking shows down at
the basement, which I wish I could go to and
see you there. You're the best, Chris. Thanks gosh, that
was Chris Ryan. You can find tickets to her show
this Friday in Melbourne. The show is called Extreme Tenant
twenty percent off if you're write the code extreme at
the top of the page. A link is in the
(54:13):
show notes. Also, that's where you'll find a pre order
for the book. So what now, what? Please pre order it?
It is enormous good for me because it is in
the pre ordering that the publisher and the booksellers get
an idea of how much appetite there is for this book.
Pre order it right now. The link is in the
show notes for that, as is link for the story
(54:34):
Club show on the sixth of the July Factory Theatre
in Marckfield with Marley Silva, Merrick Watts, Filler' Neil Naddia,
Town's End, Zoey Norton Lodge, and myself and our theme
is everybody needs good neighbors. Because we've all had good neighbors,
We've also all had pretty terrible neighbors. I've got great
neighbors right now. It's the best neighbors I've ever had
in my life. But they're not the neighbors I'm going
(54:54):
to talk about on the night. Thank you for listening.
Thanks to Adam Bunch for producing this episode. I'll talk
John Monday
Why have we made it so hard for ourselves? Why
are we trying to be geniuses? Have podcasts, be uberfit,
eat the right things, drink the right amount of coffee?
Do you know? Genuinely? I think the best I can
do now is get find things that put me in
a flow state so I can forget I exist. I'm
sick of me.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Comedy, stand up comedy particularly, there is this idea of material,
So when you go to see a comedy show, you
think of the material as the joke, but is it
really when you really think about it, it's not what
the person's saying. It's who they are. It's their life,
their thoughts, their experiences, their perspectives, their goals, who they are,
(00:41):
what they've been through, and then using the method of
stand up comedy to communicate that to you, because that's
what got them to where they are on stage, and
it got you there to go and see them, and
you feel you could relate to that person on stage,
and that's how you laugh. And that's just not true
for comedy. It's true for everything we do, no matter
(01:03):
what other tools are involved or what we're making, the
lives we live, that's the material. That's the stuff that
we're working with and that can help us or it
can hinder us in our careers. And then my guest today,
she has some amazing material and many great thoughts. I
adore this person. I know you will too. It's coming
(01:24):
up right after the break. Welcome to the show. This
is better than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations to
help make your day better than yesterday. Every episode since
since twenty thirteen. I've been here twelve years. You think
I could say that date right? Probably not good. My
name's Oshi Ginsburg. Thanks for being here. The pre orders
(01:45):
for the book are pumping along. Thank you so much.
Books out the fifth of August. Please, if you want
to pre order the book, there's a link in the
show notes when you bought it, screenshot your proof of purchase,
email it to me. Send us your email at gmail
dot comment. I will send you something special. Going to
be talking about this quite a bit. I'm going to
talk about it every week, so I think I should
probably at least try to write a jingle to help
(02:05):
you want to buy this new book. The book's called
So What Now What? You can get it right now
pre order. It's out on the fifth foregust, hang on,
how's it go? Let me just just pick up my ukulele.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Okay, so your laughs cut it shit right now, and
you think you've missed your shit, Grab a copy of
my new book I.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Wrote and Cabal Walker illustrated. It's called So what Now?
What got a career in advertising ahead of me? Oh? Well,
I think it has been an advertising. Story Club back.
We took June off because we did a show on
the Central Post and we are back sixth of July
(02:53):
at the Factory Theater in Marrickville, cracking lineup. Last week's
guest Merrick Watts and Marley Silvera who they're both of
me guess on the show. They'll be joining us, as
will actress Nadia Townsend, actress and dramaturg Nadia Townsend, she's fantastic.
And Phil O'Neil. Yeah, Phil O'Neill, you may know whom
as ugly Phil will be joining us at Zoe Norton
(03:15):
Lodge and myself story clublive dot com for tickets. Speaking
of tickets to fun things, because story Club is a
live comedy storytelling show that I do once a month
and I love you come along. It's a lot of fun.
Speaking of live things, there is a twenty percent discount
for you to get along to Chris Ryan's show this
Friday night in Melbourne at the Basement. We've got a
promo code. I'll give it to you a little later on,
because you know I started in commercial radio. What am
(03:37):
I gonna do not tease the promo code the links
in the show notes. But if you want the promo code,
we'll keep listening because my guest today is the amazing,
wonderful comedian Chris Ryan. I've had the great pleasure of
working with her. She wrote on the news show that
I did at the Comedy Festival for a couple of
years and the show that we piloted TN and and
N a lot of fun. She's just fantastic. Chris Ryan
(04:00):
won the Best Newcomer Award a couple of years back,
but despite that, her dive into comedy came later than
it does for many other people. It only came after
a year's long struggle with post natal depression. However, it
is those circumstances, those circumstances of her life that make
her voice on stage so very valuable. Today, Chris is
going to talk about the challenges that we can present
(04:22):
to ourselves, and also how we try to deal with
those challenges, her love of storytelling, the pressure she feels
to always do more, her advice to aspiring comedians, and
fitting with the name of her brand new show, it's
called Extreme Tenant. There's a bit of work there on
how much it sucks to be a renter in Australia.
(04:42):
If you've never known Chris Ryan before, I'm so happy
for you because you get to meet this extraordinary woman
right now. I'm happy to have you here, Chris Let. Yeah,
how are you.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I don't know, I'm good mate, Yeah, you're right, yea
and bits three to walk to he his house.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You walked here from Heggy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
But then at the last minute, I just jumped on
a tram just a couple of stops, just to quicken
it up a bit, just in time to get a
beautiful coffee.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
This isn't Canberra, dude, Like it's quite far everywhere, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah. Camber' is like, oh I.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
No, But it wasn't like I invented the idea of walking.
Luke Keggy, who literally lives here. It was like, yeah,
you can walk there, And I was like Okay, well,
then I guess I better.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Walk Heggy's Heggy is a he is a self propelled
transport now is from way back. And I know for
a fact that, yeah, I know I have.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That effect on people perrimenopause.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
No, I know for a fact that at one point
you thought it was a really good idea to finish
a gig at the factory in Marrickville and go Yeah.
Heggy said, yeah, you can walk to Couljie. And so
when yeah, I walked Coulgie not realizing it was like
a fucking forearm.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That's the literal walk I did in twenty nineteen. I know,
I know you did that walk from the truck shop
a miracle in any more road that truck shop. I
walked to Couljie with a really heavy backpack full of stuff.
I'd done four gigs that night, including an hour solo,
and I just listened to podcasts and music and I
(06:14):
walked and walked and walked and walked because I thought, oh,
this is too easy. I've had it too easy. I
need to suffer a bit. What Yeah, seriously. And I
also didn't have enough money for an uber that in
my like in my business comedy account at the time,
which had like twenty cents in it. So and I
was too proud to use the family's money to get
(06:34):
an uber, so I thought, no, I'm going to walk
or so I was drunk.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
There's a lot of fact a lot of factors there,
and somewhere along the way there would have been a
very interestingly balanced wae M front lawn.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, I believe that there was. I believe that there was. Yes, yes,
I did that. Yeah, you've just reminded me of it.
Although there was no one around, absolutely no one around.
There was parts where there were no.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
One not sketchy as sketchy bits going from where you were.
You've got to walk across the back of botany and stuff,
which is.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I was also listening to the podcast serial.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Great like that'll you know that'll get your step count up?
I think Ryan that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Day, I think I did twenty five thousand steps.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Need you done? Then you're done? Coolly year coo. I'm
so happy that ye are here on this show. You
and I have known each other for a while now, yeah,
and I am all my work is better for knowing you.
I have to say that people may not realize though
(07:45):
I talk a bit about it doing this news show
for the Comedy Festival two years in a row. I
needed help writing it, and you came on board as
a writer for that with unbelievable credibility, because not only
are you a highly successful stand up you also have
background of journalism.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh gosh, this is extremely kind. I'm very uncomfortable with
it because I don't think I did a good enough
job for your show. Anyway, I'm glad you're happy.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Are you kidding me? Your stuff? What I loved about
doing that show? And in the words of Ron Bergundy's
boss and and command, diversity is not an old old
ship and I have slightly different views of the diversity
to what may be the common views of diversity. I
(08:30):
am far more about diversity of ideas and diversity of
economic background. Interesting for me, those two things will take
care of all of the other things, but those ideas
are where for me is most important to have diversity
because I am a straight white man boy who grew
(08:52):
up in the suburbs of Brisbane, and I will miss
every joke that someone like you can see because I
simply can't see them. They are invisible to me, all right.
Like when Audrey first ever took Wolfgang for a bushwhee.
I had to shout to her, honey, honey, back to
the wind. She's like, oh, of course it didn't occur
to her because because she's never had to. Yes, of course,
(09:17):
worry about that.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah we have gravity, Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You're like ladies, it's just as long as your feet
are along the full wine, you're fine. You know, all
on for downhill right with fellas, You've got to think about.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
That and wind we jumped to a different.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Sometimes getting that ven diagrammed crossover is difficult. The stuff
you write about wage inequality and workplace conditions and stuff
like that was so fucking excellent.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Thanks man, that's so kind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It was real cool. But also knowing that you'd been
in a newsroom and you've done that as a as
a job was also really useful for us, I think,
because it really made the whole thing authentic.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I remember I first learned journalism a small regional town
called Maria down the south coast of New South Wales,
and one of my first tasks was as a cadet.
I was in charge of the property section and I
had to find verbs for headlines about property. Every headline
had to have a verb in it. Now, that doesn't
(10:17):
sound that hard, but if you think about it, it is.
You know, luxury villa escapes road noise. I don't know,
you know, like I don't know, you know, grabs views,
family home delights viewers. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
One bedroom, moldy fiber transports from the bustle and bustle.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, transformed into yeavana. Yeah, So it's fun. It's I
loved being a journal being in a newsroom with other
people who had to to turn a story into as
little as possible, be very economical with words, and learn
to do that upside down triangle thing, imagining that no
(11:09):
one's going to read past possibly the headline, but if
they do, you better have the guts of the story
in the first line, or even lost them.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And all of that stuff is exceptional training for stand
up it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Is, actually, in my view, Yeah, I think it is.
And it was fun being around people who were always
looking at all the different angles of something. As a
journal you were not meant to really have an opinion,
you know, Like, I know that sounds so naive and
ludicrous in this world, but honestly, when I started journalism,
(11:44):
I was so earnest, and I truly wanted to have
no opinion. I wanted to just give all the facts
and try and present it without any influence or whatever.
And I remember at the time, well, a friend of
mine was very cynical and he was like, the media,
it's just toxic and it's broken, and I'm like, and
(12:05):
I took it really to heart. Well, I said, well,
I'm the media and that hurts dear. But there were
journos and they were telling stories from regional Australia. And
now I ran into a journo actually from down there
at a gig. She said, they're all gone. You know,
(12:27):
there's no there are no journos. There are no independent
papers anymore, really not many. And it's such a shame
those stories aren't being told anymore except perhaps by one
journo that's maybe a scout for all of the region.
Or you can imagine those stories just start to go away.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
What happens to us as a country when we start
to lose that lens on life that isn't in the
lens of the major news organizations.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, and I don't think it's
good though.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
What was the noise of the newsroom like.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Very a lot of chatter. There was a lot of
people on phones doing interviews. There was sometimes there was
this lovely old woman called June. She would have been
like seventy five. I think she retired at seventy eight
or something like. And she was the court reporter and
the council report and she's tough as nails. She had
a big helmet of white blonde hair and makeup perfection
(13:23):
and a suit every day. And June didn't take any shit,
and she was always having loud conversations. There was always
the people taking phone calls for people wanting to put
stuff in the what's it called classifieds selling a bike
or selling a house or whatever. Lots of laughter as well,
God we laughed. I remember I wanted to try out
(13:46):
TV journalism at one point I thought, oh maybe I
could get into that. And this is something that happened
that I later turned into a joke. So sorry doing
bits on you, but it's when the art is life,
you know. Like I had to film a show real
which you would understand, and I didn't have anything obviously,
so I hired a bloke to film this and I
made up a bullshit story about crime in an hour.
(14:08):
I was living an hour at the top, but I
wanted to I got it. I had a suit, a
lilac suit. It was the nineties. But I wanted a haircut,
like I wanted a good I went into this is
the bit, and it's just what happened, But this is
the bit. I went into naraw Just Cuts, came out
looking like Ray Martin. I did. I wanted a short haircut,
(14:30):
but this guy cut me a Ray.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Martin, and I'm going for a news journal. But it
was terrible.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It was so terrible. And I went into the bathroom
at the South Coast Register, the paper that I worked at,
and I wouldn't come out. I was just standing there
looking in the mirror, pulling at my hair, hoping it
would get longer quicker than it's humanly possible for it
to do. And they were my colleagues, my mates, were
standing on the other side of the door, going, you've
got to let us see it. Eventually, you can't stay
in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You're lucky you went into Just Cuts then, because after like,
they only had two haircuts at that point, you know,
they had the Jamo and the Ray Martin. That was it,
and now it's and then for like ten years it
was a Danya that was all you got. Oh yeah,
because Daniel was there, you know, he had it on
his race car.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And it was a little life stoleed cardboard card out
of Grant denya. And I don't mean that injo like
it was. Actually, that's how big he is. That's no,
it's not a joke. That's how big Grand Januar is. Yep,
there he is. Most people bothered when they see him
for the first time, like, are you not a jockey? No? No, no,
he's an incredibly talented game show most Yeah, and the
(15:34):
caramean love him beause they could sit down.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Oh come on.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I don't want us to romanticize too much about it,
but the idea of the journalist hero, the one who's
there to save us from shitty democracy going in shitty
directions is I don't know if that's really there anymore,
because now it's I'm aligned with this political party and
we're at the lefties, or we're at the workis, or
(15:59):
we're at the you know, the right wing. It is,
rather than you and me together and everyone is after us,
which it was.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I think you're right that's exactly. That's the change
that's happened. And I think whilst I never had that
bravado of like, yeah, I'm going to be deceivior, I
did want to do the right thing, and you know,
in my tiny little way, I got to tell a
few people's stories with them and it was brilliant. I
love that job. It was a great job.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And that kind of journalism, which is with the public
interest at heart, I think we just we cannot we
can't lose it. We miss it so important.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
There are individuals I think online and social media and
stuff who I notice are you know, they say things
and they do things by themselves, and they write their
independent stories and such. But yeah, the era of thinking
you can trust the media is over, and that's sad.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
With your kids when they're watching news, did you talk
to them about this is how you can tell truth,
fact whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
To be honest, we didn't watch the news with our kids.
We didn't. We just didn't watch the news because it
was all car crashes and political intrigue and celebrity breakups.
And I don't care and I didn't feel the need
to push that on them.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Do they keep themselves informed about the way.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh, my kids are very smart. You know, I don't
need to worry about, you know, whether they're getting information.
They've got it sort of, I don't. That's past I'm
past it, you know, like my kids are. Yeah, I
have a new bit in my show this year about
how green they are. They're just so green that if
I go to the shops, I feel like an oligarch,
(17:36):
you know, like I can't even enjoy going to shops
anymore to relax because they'll be like, you can get
that at Vinears, you know, and I love going to you.
I go to off shops all the time. I've got
too much stuff from off shops. But just this idea
that there, even though I'm trying to do the right thing,
you know, it's never enough. And you know, they're they
(17:58):
know what's happening out there, and it worries them. And I,
you know, obviously I worry too. Environmental stuff is huge
in our family, and even having purpose and not just
wanting to live a life where you make money. There's
a lot of young I'm going to say from my experience,
there are a lot of young people coming out of school,
(18:19):
and I'm going to say private school, but hey, maybe
it's both that are just sort of they want to
somehow skim money out of society without very much effort,
and they want that to be their life, and they
can't really understand why that's not a real thing and
not something you should aspire to because you have a
very unhappy life. You should be wanting to contribute to society.
(18:43):
What can I do? Not what can I get? I
don't know. My kids are. I'm very proud of where
they are, you know, mentally and emotionally, and you know,
within the community.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
How old were they when you realized, oh shit, they're.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Real smart, oh very young.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And were you at the same time proud and real
annoyed because oh no, no authority.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Now I wasn't. I wasn't annoyed.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
One bit that I've always had, which is pretty much
to the you don' I never wrote much about my kids,
not a lot, because because you write about dumb stuff, right,
and my kids are dumb. So it was kind of
like I missed out on that. But my son always
loved reading from a young age, and he'd read vaciously,
you know, and one day he was probably about five
or six, even I don't know, younger and he was.
(19:32):
He was talking about this book he was reading where
the character wielded his tried and magnificently, and I looked
at him. I went, and this is just verbatim. I
just said, Wow, I'm like forty eight. I've never used
the word whatever, forty I've never used the word wield
in a sentence. Pretty good on the old word his son,
And he goes, Mum, I have a good vocabulary, you know.
And that was it, And that was the punchline.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Back up, mum, back it up. I recall I think
I was about I was forty. I'm thirty years older
than ge my step daughter, she was eleven, so i'd
only I've been living with her and her mum for
less than a year, and she was doing something that
probably shouldn't be doing, she shouldn't have been doing, and
I was annoyed at it, and I was trying to
(20:15):
do my very best to let her know that, look,
that's not okay, what's happening right now, There's ways to
do this, and that's not it. And she was coming
with some very strong logic and really well put together
points yea, and very reasonable justifications for behavior, and I
was real pissed off because in my head, I'm like, fuck,
(20:36):
this argument was one you are don't ever stop being.
You are standing up till forty one year old man
with very very clever logic, and this is a really
good argument on your behalf. And I'm really so proud
of you because you're so small and I'm much taller
than you, and here you are holding your own and
I'm very proud of you, and you're really annoying because
(20:57):
at the core of it, it was like still not okay,
what was all right? It's not you know, but you're
you're figuring stuff out. I'm so proud of it. And
Wolfe's the same, he's so fucking smart like you.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's ford, isn't it that you want the next generation
to be better.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Than you have to? That's all you're here, it's all.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
We're here for. The worst outcome I think as a
parent would be to raise a child that you love
but you don't like, Oh my god, you know that
you care for but you don't understand that you do
not share values. I reckon that would be the worst outcome. Yeah,
and it's easier for that to happen these days with
(21:35):
social media. I fear that young people are seeing so
much of stuff that's not real. So, for example, young
people who are influencers and paid to be trying products
on Insta or whatever, and they've got this lifestyle where
they're just having fun. I finished school and whatever, and
(21:57):
it's not real.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Like when I finished school, I was a loser. I
knew I was at the bottom of the friggin ladder.
I would have to work. I had no money, even
though I had wealthy parents. Let me tell you had
I came from privilege, but I was told they didn't
say these words, but this was my understanding. Look, you're
(22:20):
basically a dead shit now you finish school, hippie parae.
But this is where it starts. You become a person. Now.
You don't deserve anything. You are not entitled to party
and have a gap. Yeah you know. You are not
entitled to stay in my house, piss away your weekends,
(22:42):
save up money for your trip overseas while I'm paying
a motherfucking mortgage. Sorry if that's bad language. I think
there are too many young people who think they should
be having this sick life, when in fact, all they
can do is get a job working in a restaurant
right now, and it's going to suck shit. Yeah, And
that's how it is.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah. Part of the problem, I feel, oh, is the yes,
you see the footage of this person, I haven't that gap. Yeah,
you don't see the hundreds of hours of shit restaurant
work or whatever that person has done.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
The mum and dad gave them money.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's also that you don't see that. You don't see
that part. You don't see all that work. You know.
When I started on idol, people are like, oh my god,
you just turn up overnight. I've been working six days
a week since I was seventeen and I'm now twenty nine. No,
I haven't turned up over night. No, I've just worked
my fucking asshole. Yes's and that's how like, that's what
(23:44):
it is. And I'm sure you know I talked to
Luke about this quite a bit. And this is what
open mic nights are four And this is what you know.
Lineup shows are for. Is for people who just get
out there and take it in the face and stand
up comedy is one of the if probably the most
hardcore job to willingly walk into. It is willingly walking
(24:07):
up to a firing squad every night knowing you're going
to get shot. Some people just don't have the guts
to get up and do it again after they get
done once right, And I hear look talk about it
then that there is an expectation that I will get
up and you all will laugh at me, because that's
what I've seen the video on TikTok about and next
(24:29):
stop Enmore and why isn't happening now?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, everyone wants to kill a five minute set so
they can win raw comedy and become a national hero overnight.
That's what's happening. I get a few people every now
and then reach out to me and ask, oh, can
we have a coffee and we talk about my career
and I want to have a career in comedy, and
I'm like, oh, fuck, here we go. And I'm quite
judicious about who I will talk to. And I always
(24:54):
said there's no shortcut, and Hegge says this too, there's
no shortcut. You just have to keep going. And it
doesn't make it. It's not rational. You won't make money,
you'll be disappointed, it'll hurt. You'll see people that you
think are shit doing better than you, and you'll be
like the world is unfair. Why am I doing this?
So be prepared if that's what you're after. But if
you're after some shiny spotlight immediately, you might even get
(25:17):
that once. But even after you've had that, it won't
come again necessarily. Ever, you have to just want to
keep going by yourself. And it's sort of like life, really,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
All Right, We're going to take a break from Chris
Ryan by now you're like, I've got to go see
this show on Friday night. She's at the Basement Comedy
Club in Melbourne and you can get tickets for that.
The link is in the show notes and if you
want twenty percent off, you just click Unlock in the
top of the little green page. There you can see
unlocked right in the word extreme. Like the metal band
that I really love that when did a soft rock
(25:53):
song called more than Words, which ended up being their
biggest hit, but it made me sad, but they were
really fun bad. Yeah, Extreme is the offer code you
get twenty percent off thirty five dollars tickets becomes twenty
eight and you're welcome because I said, hey, can we
do an offer code? I said sure, So there you go.
That's just for you. Nobody else is getting that. The
links in the show notes back in a minute with
more from Chris Ryan. The only thing I think you
(26:20):
can really control, and I tell you this was told
to me by my old manager when I lived in
the States. He said, only you know how hard you
work to make your dreams come true. All you can
control is your effort, all right. You can't control how
much talent you've got.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
God, sometimes you can't even control your effort. Oh so
that's probably where I fall down.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It takes a lot of effort to walk from and
water couldie, that's a lot of effort.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I was thinking about this, thinking about talking to you, like,
I think one of the greatest challenges is yourself right
in life obviously, if you've got any brains yet all yeah, unfortunately,
is like what is it that you're running from? You know, Like,
what is it that you run from? And I spent
a lot of time touring and look just quietly in
(27:05):
case I sound miserable and depressed and like ungrateful. I
fucking love my life. It's a fucking best I can't
believe this is a job. I can't believe my luck.
It's unbelievable. Yeah, so that being.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
What's really hard.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
That being said, it never really feels like I work
that hard anyway. I'm sure I do, It's evident I
have apparently, but it never really I never really feel
like I'm truly doing the enough work. And and I
do feel like I spent a lot of time fucking
going to op shops and faffing about on tour, you know,
like I could spend my days gruelingly stuck to the
(27:40):
desk and writing. Do I nope, you know, do I
go for random walks and look in op shops at
the things I don't need to buy?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
It?
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yes, I'm an idiot, we all are. It's like I'm
scared of my capacity, right. I don't know if even
that's true. I don't know what the truth is. I
just think I could work harder, and I'm not sure
where to point that energy direction.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I would argue to you that the act of wandering
around an op shop in a town that you're doing
a gig at is actually work, because your job is
to have your subconscious put together raw information, run it
through the filter of the lens of which you look
through life new information, and then pop that out to
(28:28):
bring a new idea on stage and combining these two
unknown things hither too, there is the joke. And unless
you have walked around the op shop at the back
of Port Lincoln and gone, holy fuck, yeah the how's
that board game that is terrible? Oh yeah, that's right,
that's somewhere at the beach house. Bang bang bang, there
(28:49):
you are.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
However, that is very kind of you to be so
generous to me. However, you're not doing that, osha. You're
doing podcasts and television things, and you're working your face off.
I'm out looking at bloody opshops getting another pair of
jeans that I don't I mean, you've got a gig
that night.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I'm not. Oh you must, no, dude, like, come on, no,
you want to talk about my career uncertainty. Oh dear god,
I haven't done a contracted TV just in two years.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I find that so hard to believe.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I feel like you're not even speaking English, right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
No, really, I've been nominated for a Gold LOGI and
went to unemployment.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That sucks balls.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Man Grant Daniel won one when he had no job.
It's a fuck just industry audio guys that are mowing lawns, right, now, No,
your gig, your job is secure. I am busy trying
to fucking figure something else to do because no one's
making the kind of TV that I'm good at making.
(29:45):
It's too expensive, it's real hard, right, So I'm busy.
I'm fiendishly reinventing. But it's okay.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
But you're also you're actually doing the thing have to.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
That's all I can do. All you can do is
control your effort. I'm not mortalent than anybody else. I
just will just keep working.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That is a great quality, But there's really.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Something about I would love to be able to do
it properly, to be standing on stage and dropping a line.
And it was just that one person who makes the
kind of laugh that you know, tickle the darkest part
of them that they're embarrassed about it. I'm like, I
don't care if everyone else in this room is silent.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That guy got it me mate. But I really enjoyed
when we did that true storytelling night together.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Oh yeah up at the Central Coast.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, people's stories are extraordinary. I mean, this is why
journalism appealed to me, because I know everyone has stuff
going on at all times, and it changes all the time. Yeah,
you never run out you know, of stories really, and.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
It's just humans trying to remember that the ship I'm
going through it's not just me. Yeah, that's really it's
always about not getting up sleep, not getting enough sex,
not eating, you know, not having a connection, making a mistake,
dropping something and all.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And that's comedy too, it is.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
It's just that moment of oh, it's not just me,
it's not just me, and the lens of which you
come to comedy through is and I understand why. The
economics of it. There's not very many people in your
position that can take four nights a week away from
a family to go and test five ten minutes at
a time, you know, for a couple of hours, and
(31:20):
then come back after everyone's gone to bed. And so
the diversity of jokes of life for a you know,
a mum of some kids who's you know, this is
another part of their career and telling jokes about getting
older and stuff like that. It's a surprise to people
because I just don't hear it. It's twenty one year
olds who going to afford to just you know, abuse
(31:42):
their ADHD medication and stay out late.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I do remember when I started because like I started
in twenty twelve. I did comedy for seven years in Canberra,
not going anywhere because I had young kids and I
didn't want to, you know, I wanted to be in
camera with my kids and I would write. I remember
I wrote probably a couple of shows that I own
a full hour that I only did once in Canberra. Yeah,
(32:08):
and when I finally did go to Melbourne, a reviewer
of my first show there, where I was nominated for Newcomer,
said something like, well, there's there's already heaps of middle
aged people talking about kids and families and stuff she
(32:30):
doesn't really you know, contribute anything to or you know,
we don't need any more of them kind of thing.
It's the most ageist, frickin' comment and it feeds into
your greatest fear is, which is, oh, I'm not relevant.
Nothing I have to say matters. This is not edgy
and new and exciting. They don't want this, you know.
But I've actually recently been opening for the brilliant comedian
(32:52):
Jen Brister, who's fifty. She's from England. She's been doing
it for decades and it was only in the last
couple of year years that she's gone to a million
follows on Instagram, and it is simply because she's brilliant
and she's saying stuff that so many people want to
talk about, which is being a parent, which is how
hard it is all And you know, like this, it's
(33:16):
hard when you are doing something that your own family,
you know, like my mom you know, in her way
is proud of me, but honestly looks at what I'm
doing is.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Like like a journalism job. Remember when you had a
job at a.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Year you know, comedy really and and you know, in
many ways that's the voice in my head going, yeah,
I mean it's all good and well, but one day
you probably have to fall back on your writing or
something else. You know, there is a big part of
me just because yeah, it's all bullshit. Really, this is
all la la land stuff. That's why I never really
(33:51):
leaned into comedy until it was like I'd gone through
a dark period of depression and stuff. I thought, No,
it's all frivolous, you know, And that's not a real job.
A parent, be a decent person, get a real job.
And that's something that's deep in me. And it's not
very helpful to say the least, is it.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
No, I don't think you're alone in that though. I certainly, yeah,
I struggle with that as well. Certainly at this point
in time, when I'm looking at my mortgage repayments, eat
my offset alive like a fucking orca and a little
baby seal on an ice flow, you know, where they
take a half a white and go, I might have
the rest of it. I'm just look. I've got a
spreadsheet at home that I stare at and the Google
(34:36):
ally is rather good. It's made me a god of
spreadsheets now because I just ride in. I need this
cell to you know, take out of that every two
weeks and then output a date as to when it
hits zero. I look at it every day and go,
that's when that's where my runway runs out. I've got
to get some shit happening here. But this is important.
It's important to look at that stuff. And it's hard
to look at, but it's an important look at. And
(34:57):
so every day that I'm not, you know, meaningfully contributing
to that, I'm like, what am I doing to my family?
What am I doing fucking you know, strapping a motion
capture think to my head and trying to make a thing.
What am I doing trying to you know, make this pocket.
What fucking should I reactivate my LinkedIn account and start
going hey guys looking for what?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I can't do it, Chris, I know I can't do it, Dude,
I know.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I keep thinking I can. But then when push comes
to shove and I'm looking at the jobs and thinking, yes,
super would be nice, I think, oh, gone in the office, yuck.
You know, imagine having to I remember once starting a
job and on the very first day, and I was
in my thirties, I remember taking my first toilet break
(35:42):
and just looking in the mirror, just saying, how long
before I can leave this job?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I quit a job after three and a half hours.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Oh did you?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah? I could. I was like, I couldn't do it.
This is not for me.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Do you remember the football play Melmoninger?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Do I ever I'm from Queensland? Are you kidding me?
Of course? I remember Melmaninger.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Do you remember that gorgeous interview in I think it
was ABC Canberra Studios when he was running for parliament.
He tried to be a politician and he sat down
for his very first interview and within minutes. I can't
remember the exact question.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Oh, they got his They got him announcing his political
candidacy and resigning from politics in the same break.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
He's my hero. That is just full of integrity.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Actually, now I'm experiencing this part of it.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
You know what, No, didn't he say something like, oh
I'm screwed or not screwed? What did he say? Oh
I'm done here? Yeah, he took off the headphones, just
got up and left. And I thought, I still think
about that, like what integrity? But that's mate.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
But in those moments, we kind of think he would
have fully committed to doing it. He would have told
everyone do this. But he's still got a broadcast career.
He's still relevant. It's very important, and the baby league
is still scouts people. He's really important. But in that moment,
he might have thoughtated it's all over, but that reality
is far from the case.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
And also it's not a police matter.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I've got a really lovely friend who I used to
work for and his favorite. He's an events manager and
he's brilliant. He can handle everything, even if things are
falling apart, He'll just take a moment. He will never
show the client the terror, you know, and his philosophy
is it's not a police matter. You know, we can
He would never spend any time being angry. He would
(37:33):
just spend his energy trying to fix the problem. And
oh god, I love him his best.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
You've got these gigs in Melbourne coming on Melbourne. People
are hard hard to crack sometimes. Do you ever get
up and feel like, come on, that's a fucking good joke.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Look, I'm not that much of an edge lord. I mean, honestly,
if people are coming to my show, they know what
they're getting, you know. Finally, I think I'm starting to
find the people who actually want to hear what I've
got to say.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
You say you're not an edge lord, but I have
seen an red material from you that really can put
people in us start conversation with their own.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Oh, it can be uncomfortable. I'm not afraid of making
people go quiet. Yeah, I don't do it a lot.
I mean it's mostly laughs. Let's not pitch me as
a terrifying person. But I am not afraid. I'm actually
more afraid of not saying the thing, you know what
I mean? Like last is show, I had some stuff
(38:42):
in there. There's bits where I'm just telling it as
it is, and people will go a little bit quiet.
It won't necessarily be the laugh bit, you know. And
I stand by that because I'm more scared of never
talking about hard things than I am of silence. I'm
(39:03):
more scared of silence and never talking about the thing,
you know. So this bit that I'm thinking of Last year,
I used to have this bit on you know, how
I love other people's problems because they're easier to solve
and they don't affect you. Plus they can be fascinating,
you know. And then I talk about how we deal
with problems like some people, and this was the bit.
(39:26):
It was sort of like, prefer to focus on things
outside their control, you know, rather than fix the things
in their life, So they'll make their entire social media
personality the war in the Middle East, then deal with
their dead bedroom marriage, do you know what I mean?
And that would just flaw the audience and it got
(39:50):
to the point where it was so silent that it
was uncomfortable. And I had to just really lean into
that because I filmed that show and for the filming
I actually just like, hmm, I sort of just simmered
in it and I went, hmmm, that silence just speaks
truth to me, you know, and I don't know, that's
(40:11):
not that edgy, but the truth can be scary.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, and yet this is for me. I think the
real gift of stand up a good one or two
line joke from you like that, particularly one about the
social media profile rather than facing yourself, that can really
change someone's life. It can't. They might not realize it,
but it'll sit in the back of their head for
a little bit, permeate around.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I don't know, can lose me friends probably, I don't know,
you know, because it's all based in real life and stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
So you've got to be careful as a sober person.
I had to understand that the people who stopped texting
and calling me once I stopped drinking, they probably weren't
my friends.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, right, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
It's that. It's when I always say when I talk
about mental health and the workplace, so like, if you're
working for a place that is going to discriminate against you,
you're probably working in the wrong place. You know, speak
of mental health like you're not afraid to speak about that.
What do you think Australia kind of really gets wrong
about mums who face mental health challenges after kids.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't think I actually don't. I don't think we
have the knowledge to understand how hard it is and
how different the reality is from this image of what
a mother is. I had no words or understanding for
(41:38):
the experience of going through post natal depressions such that
I had it for three years without being diagnosed. So
I had two children and I was just, you know,
white knuckling it, just getting through. And I love them
so much, but I was terrified of someone finding out
that I was not well. I didn't even I thought
(42:00):
I was crazy. I found it so hard to do
basic things that it appeared other mothers did without even
thinking about it. They just seemed so light, you know.
I still find it hard talking about it because it
was so fundamentally challenging to who I thought I was
as a person. So I don't think Australia understands how
(42:22):
to even begin the conversation. I will forever be grateful
to my former pretty much mother in law. I was
never married, but I was in a long term relationship
and my partner's mum was a nurse, and I remember
when I was right in the guts of it, I
remember just sort of saying some things to her, and
she just quietly said to me, are you okay? And
(42:46):
she was not a threatening person. She was a good listener.
And she because I'd had people say to me prior
to that, I think you'll probably post natally depressed. You
should probably, you know. I don't think this is right,
you know. And I remember losing a friend over that
because I was like, you haven't had kids, you don't know,
Oh you don't know, don't talk to me. I was
terrified that people would say, oh, well you can't, you
(43:07):
can't keep your kids because you're too mental or something.
I thought there was something deeply wrong with me. But
Ginny she was able to just ask me without judgment,
are you okay? And I was safe enough to say, god,
I don't think so, you know. And she just three questions.
She asked, are you okay? Do you have a good GP?
(43:27):
I mean, yeah, I do actually, And then she said
do you reckon You can go see them? I went, yeah,
I probably could.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Actually.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
That was it. She didn't try and solve my problem.
She didn't try and say oh, yes, I experienced it,
or belittle it or make it smaller or change it
or fix it. She just let me admit I wasn't
feeling okay and I couldn't understand it, but that was okay.
I could talk to a doctor about that.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Giving you the gift of the agency to do something
about it, that is, in itself, is such an incredibly
important thing, because in my experience, if people are pushed
into treatment, it never worked because there's often that like, well, fuck,
I don't want to be here, but I'm here. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So you're never willing to ask yourself those real questions.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Well, my GP also shared that view. He said to me,
I am so glad you've come to see me about this.
He said, I think you've you know what you've got.
I said, no, I don't. He goes, we did the
test and everything, and he goes, you've got postonatal depression.
I think you've had it for three years. But if
I'd said anything to you, you never would have come
back to see me. So I'm glad you've come to me,
(44:40):
and that is a good GP.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I said, you're right, yeah, for people who might have
be resonating with what you're saying, what did treatment look like.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
And what I had? I was on antidepressants for a
couple of years.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
But that's not it, like you have to do other stuffs.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
I went. I did a positive parenting course that was
free at the local like parenting center or something in
the act, and that was useful. The antidepressants didn't make
me happy. They gave me distance from my anger and fear,
and I felt like I was watching my life and
(45:15):
it wasn't satisfying to feel that way. But at least
I wasn't scared and angry. I felt like, okay, well,
I can relax. This is a thing. And as my children,
you know, became grown up, and as they could speak English,
finally they we could communicate and things became easier. But
you know what, It's been many many years now since then,
(45:38):
and obviously I've tried to figure myself out. I've tried,
you know, I've gone to psychologists and stuff. But only
a few years ago, it was only probably two or
three years ago I got a diagnosis of ADHD, and
being on the medication for that, it makes me sort
of look back and wonder if all of that anxiety
(45:59):
and depression was actually just ADHD a lack of dopamine
in my brain. And I know everyone's got a lot
to say about ADHD and everyone who's got it. I
was always diagnosing people, and I look, I'm guilty of
that too. But I do feel like, especially for women
of my age, it's we're the ones being diagnosed a
lot at the moment because we weren't in the studies.
(46:21):
Girls weren't in the studies. I'm relieved I still don't
have it. I'm not. I'm not the person I would
love to be. I think that's a life journey. I
don't think I will be until I'm very old. Unfortunately,
I'm trying my best, and I'm getting better every year,
like your podcast says, but I certainly am not there yet.
(46:43):
There's so many things I wish I could do better.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
But I disagree with this idea of I have arrived.
I think that is a great falsehood about life. No,
it's not. It's always this is great, This is everything
I thought it would be. I am curious about what
would happen if I got a light aircraft license. Now
(47:09):
let's go see what that's like. You know, the idea
of no, I don't ever have to change that. You know,
lifelong learning is you want to be vital for your grandkids,
you want to be able to be malleable in your
thinking and the way you move and the way your
body works. Learning is a really important part.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Of that, you know. I wish I could be more
grateful for that attitude, right, I know, But I look
at my parents, who I adore. They never put themselves
through this shit osha.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
They didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
They just lived their lives and did their Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
But the promise of the society that was set up
for them delivered, all right. I was talking to Zoe
about this when we're driving up to your mina the
other day for their story club show up there. There
was a time where you could own a house in
Sydney within twenty minutes driver the city and a weekend
at your minor on one middle class wage. And that
(48:09):
was most people. And this was the life that people
like your parents did. The promise was, you work real hard,
here's a house you can buy. It's anywhere between three
and six times your yearly wage. All right, interest rates
are going to be up there, but don't worry. The
principal is going to be Okay, you can handle it.
And there you go, and you were rewarded.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I know, But you know, life's changed now, yeah, but
they had other things going on. You know, women weren't
allowed to have careers. My mum never had one. She
was told she was stupid and she finished school early.
You know, like that happened to a lot of women. Yeah,
And I mean, god knows how many were undiagnosed ADHD
back then.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I think it was just you know, when you got engaged,
it was like, well, see.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
You, it's over for you.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
It's over for you.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
So there were other challenges. So I refute this idea
that they had it all good. I do think, yes,
I understand economically perhaps was slightly easier, but there's different
you know, they were raised differently and their parents never
fucking praise them with anything. There was no there was
no compliments. But it's a it is tempting to look
(49:24):
at the way that they've lived and think, Fuck, why
have we made it so hard for ourselves? Why are
we trying to be geniuses? Have podcasts, be uber fit,
eat the right things, drink the right amount of coffee?
Do you know? Genuinely, I think the best I can
do now is get find things that put me in
a flow state so I can forget. I exist I'm
sick of me. I'm fucking sick of me. I'm sick
(49:46):
of hearing my stories, hearing my winges, worrying about my anxieties.
I want to just pull out some fucking bamboo and no,
I'm doing no harm. That's honestly. I've started gardening, and
that if any If there's anything that puts me in
a flow state, it's ripping bamboo out by the route,
tearing ivy off the muldbew tree. It's not talking about
(50:11):
myself on stage. That's a joy. I do have a
lot of fun doing that, and there are times where
it is a flow state, but they're getting to that. Fuck,
what a pain in the ass.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
How good's gardening?
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Gardening's great.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
I learned about it from my wife. She's quite the
green thumb. Studied horticulture, brilliant, the best my child studying
or horticulture. Real good. Yeah. Yeah, we eat food in
our garden. It's so rare, you know.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I always looked at gardeners, thought you guys have got
something going on, but I never was into it until now.
You know, I've moved into a rental and there's weeds everywhere,
and we're allowed to do what we want. So I
go out there, no one tells me what to do.
I pull the book weeds out and I think.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Good on me. I really plants were just tree bush. Yeah,
that was about my extent of botanical knowledge. And since then,
oh man, there's names involved. But there's also something about
like noticing the subtle differences in the eggplant bush out
the front in the twenty four hours it's been since
I've walked out the front to take wolfgangs again.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Like something's happening there go presence. That's it, ultimately presence
watching life.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah, that'll be my first hour stand up show, will
be me talking about gardening.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Good on you? Why not? I'm bloody doing it. My
show is called Extreme Tenant and I'm bloody talking about it.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Oh my god. Yeah, renting is fucked.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
I feel like a child asking mum for a biscuit.
Really yeah, yeah, please? Can we have some fly screens?
The Christmas beedles are landing in my hair in the shower.
It's exactly what's happening, and you never know what the
answer is going to be. Dry screens were approved, but
I asked, can you get rid of the wasps nests
around the front door. No, do it yourself at night
(51:55):
with a broomstick.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Once, when we asked the landlord through the real estate agent, oh,
would you mind getting rid of all this metal junk
that you've left on the property, including your four lease
sign that's been here since last August, they were cut.
This is my suspicion they got so cut at us
(52:19):
for daring to post about that in the little app
that we have for complaints that I got an email
from the real estate agent saying it has come to
our attention that you have a rolling chair in the
study with no carpet under it. Please get a carpet
because it can damage I know from experience it can
(52:41):
damage the wooden floors. I'm sorry, I haven't had an
inspection for six months. Are you telling me someone's peering
through the windows or what's happening?
Speaker 3 (52:49):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (52:50):
No, I was just checking since I was seeing the
old photos because you were of the metal stuff, seeing
where that all was, and I noticed. I said, well,
I've had a carpet under there for three months. I
have now gone out to office works and bought a
plastic thing for under there. But I'm confused, you know,
I genuinely love this house and would never do anything
to hurt it. What are you doing? And honestly, it
(53:11):
was so destabilizing. I was wounded because I care so
much for this fucking place. It was built in nineteen
forty seven, it's beautiful. It's falling apart. There are not
enormous cracks in the walls. But I adore it. But
for having someone just out of the blue say something like,
I notice that you've got the wheelie chair on the
(53:32):
wooden floor. It's probably trashing it. Like, what the from?
What are you doing? Why are you being like this?
I thought we were mates. I wished you happy Christmas.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
I adore you. Chris. You're the best. You're playing Where
are your novel? What's the gig you playing?
Speaker 1 (53:50):
R It's the Basement. I'm doing my show twice in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Well may you have excellent, excellent fucking shows down at
the basement, which I wish I could go to and
see you there. You're the best, Chris. Thanks gosh, that
was Chris Ryan. You can find tickets to her show
this Friday in Melbourne. The show is called Extreme Tenant
twenty percent off if you're write the code extreme at
the top of the page. A link is in the
(54:13):
show notes. Also, that's where you'll find a pre order
for the book. So what now, what? Please pre order it?
It is enormous good for me because it is in
the pre ordering that the publisher and the booksellers get
an idea of how much appetite there is for this book.
Pre order it right now. The link is in the
show notes for that, as is link for the story
(54:34):
Club show on the sixth of the July Factory Theatre
in Marckfield with Marley Silva, Merrick Watts, Filler' Neil Naddia,
Town's End, Zoey Norton Lodge, and myself and our theme
is everybody needs good neighbors. Because we've all had good neighbors,
We've also all had pretty terrible neighbors. I've got great
neighbors right now. It's the best neighbors I've ever had
in my life. But they're not the neighbors I'm going
(54:54):
to talk about on the night. Thank you for listening.
Thanks to Adam Bunch for producing this episode. I'll talk
John Monday
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