June 17, 2025 • 56 mins
Are you truly being yourself? How can you be sure? What could be gained when you embrace your authenticity - or, what do you miss when you don't?
Kat John, authenticity coach, speaker, podcaster and author of 'Authentic: Coming Home to Your True Self' explains to Osher why understanding and answering these questions are essential.
Check out Osher's Dance-it-out playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2umndwMFXAWsK5IJm0UEZs?si=7511cc6da35e4415
And Kat's here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5BCq8K7vbZxtyT7STG8nrX?si=BhHyN_JSTfCxvYsKpjtNbQ&pi=eJ-T78OAQ3C1t
Find more from Kat here
Find more from Osher here
Pre-order Osher's new book 'So What, Now What?'
Get tickets to Story Club here
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Okay, welcome to the show. Thanks for downloading the podcast.
This is Better Than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations
to make your day to day better than yesterday, every
single week since twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name Joshia Ginzburg. I'm very glad you're here.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Ten years ago now, when I was struggling with my
mental health, I really needed to be able to read
a book that would really kind of lay out a
step by step way that I could think about the
problems that I was facing. And I couldn't find a
book that was like the book that I needed. So
I wrote one with the help of an eminent psychologist
(00:36):
who specializes in act or accepting commitment therapy and with
brilliant illustrations boys Truthless, also know as Campbell Walker. It's
called So What Now What? And in this book, I
lay out step by step the very thinking tools that
I found to be nothing short of life changing. It's
a tool, really, it's a book, yes, but it's a tool,
a tool to use when you or someone your love
(00:57):
is kind of struggling and nothing seems to you make
any better, and in fact things are just getting worse.
If you like this podcast, if this podcast brings you value.
The greatest way you could probably repay me at all
is to pre order that book. You can find a
link in the show notes pre order this book. It
sends a massive signal to the publishers of the book
and the people that order books and stockshelves that this
is a book worth getting behind, and I'd really appreciate it.
(01:20):
If you do order the book, email me a screenshot
of when you bought it. Send Asher email at gmail
dot com and I'll send you something to say a big,
big thank you. Now, the book does offer us some advice,
but it is like any advice, it's up to you
to do something with it. There's a piece of advice
that I've heard a lot. I'm sure you have to
just be yourself. Seems simple enough, doesn't that? But is
(01:41):
it really? Today's conversation is all about authenticity, what it
really is, how we can find it for ourselves, and
why it's kind of vital that we do find that authenticity.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
There's also a fair bit.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
In there about dancing to get the worries away, but
we'll get to that right. Just before we get to
my guest today, I forgot to mention that the next
live show if you want to come check out the
live show on the sixth of the July. We're at
(02:16):
the Factory Theater in Merrickville with Story Club. We do
this storytelling show every single month. Joining me is Marley Silva,
Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Ugly, Phil Nadia Townshend, Zoey Norton Lodge.
The theme We're all telling stories long and the theme
everybody needs good neighbors linkers in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
So my guest today, Kat John is her name. She
is fantastic. She's an authenticity coach, She's a speaker, she
hosts a podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Called Raw, Real and Relatable.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
She's the author of the brand new book Authentic Coming
Home to Your True Self. She do' mind having a
bit of a zero fux given boogie on the socials
either And I actually put together a playlist that you'll
hear is talking about music and I'm put together an
entire playlist you'll find link in the show notes. Because
what I do love about Cat is she really devotes
herself to sharing the message of how important it is
(03:05):
to be authentic and helping people to live that way
every single day. And she does this so partly because
she has some very painful firsthand experience in what happens
when you don't live authentically and where that can lead
you to Cat is it delight to be around. She
radiates energy and positivity. You're going to love spending time
with it, just like I did enjoy this conversation with Cat.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
John, thank you for coming pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm grateful, rightful you came, and you must be thrilled
to have a.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Book under your belt. That done. It's quite the thing.
You don't write it once, do you?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You don't write it once, No.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
You got like fives you end up writing it, I reckon.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
There were three passes in that. They were like, yeah,
it's sort of there, nah, sort.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Of there nuh, And then it took me.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
The third would go, we're actually put a mic on,
and I dictated. I just started sharing what I would
usually share, what I was trying to type out, but
I was trying to make it too sophisticated. I was
trying to make it sound smart. I was in my
head about the penguin people. I've got to make it
cool for the penguin people. I'm like, who the hell
are these penguin people? So as soon as I put
(04:19):
the mic on and dictated, I was like, that's what
I look like.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah yeah on paper?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Then it was good, right yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's fatiful.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's tricky to be able to I mean, words are great.
Our youngest is learning how to read them right now.
They're very good for communicating ideas. But sometimes it can
become a bit of a barrier. So it's wonderful we
have tools like that, definitely, because somebody like you might
not have been able to put that book out twenty
years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Without that tool. Correct, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
We are going to probably talk a bit about this
because it is your bread and butter. If we were
going to talk about being authentic, like what is for you?
You talk about authenticity? How do you as a concept?
How do you define it?
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Yeah? I mean, look, it's a big concept and I
think it gets thrown around a lot at the minute.
It's kind of like the cool word authentic leadership or
be authentic or be real or whatever it may be.
You do you, you do you boo? I think is
a hashtag that's been out for a bit, But I guess,
to me, to me, what it is it's to be
(05:25):
relaxed in yourself, to be at ease within yourself. And
I certainly know what it feels like to not feel
relaxed in myself and be at ease with myself and
walk into rooms and think I've got to be like this,
I've got to be like that. My gut is like tight,
my jaw is clenched, I'm holding my breath and it's like, hey,
(05:46):
why am I doing that? Why do I think that
I need to I don't know, put on some kind
of unnatural persona that might get me more likes, that
might get me more fit ins, that might get me
chosen here there or wherever. And I get that sometimes
we need our persona and our personality to get places
(06:07):
in life. But to me, authenticity is it's like it's
taken a seat in yourself and going.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That feels good?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
What does it? Let's, for example, put it in a
work context. What does being authentic like? What is showing
up and being authentic at work look like?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Okay, I'll give you an example. So this morning I
had a speaking engagement and typically before we speaking.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
That corporate money you go get it. You don't make
money selling books in Australia you make money. Talk about
books in Australia.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
This is true.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Oh tell me about it. My second book coming out August.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
This is true, true fact.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So typically, before speaking engagements, this little part of me,
which I call the ego, the part that keeps that
tries to keep me separate from myself, my relaxed, at ease,
authentic self. Oh my gosh, it's just like you better
be funny, you better make them laugh, you better be intelligent,
you better know your stuff, you better be even coming here,
(07:13):
even going to whatever other type of speaking engagement that
I've been to, there is this something there that says
you have to be someone that you're not because who
you are and what you've got to share just ain't enough, right,
just ain't enough. So that might mean if I listen
to that, then I'm going to try and be funny
(07:37):
and I'm going to look for people laughing, and if
they don't laugh, I'm going to feel shit about myself. Right,
I'm going to feel like I've failed. I'm going to
feel like I haven't done my job. So okay, let
me be the smart one. And if I try and
reel off some kind of fact that I'm pulling out
of something I've googled from however long ago. And if
I get someone who raises their eyebrows and it's like
(07:59):
and then write something, I'll think tick.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Right. So then I'll keep putting into my.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Evidence bank, my ego evidence bank, keep doing that because
that's what gets you the tick, the approval, the head nod,
the laugh, the whatever it may be. And then I'd
be walking off that stage or walking away.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
From here, going where was I in that?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Like?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Where was I in that? I wasn't there.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
I was putting on something that I felt I needed
to do in order to fill in the blank.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
So that's how you talk about it in a work context.
What about in a for example, in a relationship context,
in particularly an intimate relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So before my husband.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Wow, I used to date and basically buried my relaxed,
authentic self ten feet under.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I would go there.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Really kind of at the forefront, wondering who would they
like me to be? Who would they like me to be?
So if they like sports, I'd like sports. If they
like to go fishing on the weekends, I love fishing too.
Oh they love that soccer team, Sure, I love that
soccer team. They'll go to the toilet and I'm googling
that soccer team.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Is that moment I love it? Is that moment from
coming to America?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
What is your favorite food? Whatever you like?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Is that where you were loving?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Is?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah? Because I'm thinking that Eddie Murphy having the conversation
really black and Dog.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's like, it's that but I under stand it.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, And so when they would come back from
the bathroom, you'd be like.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Oh, yeah A c. Malan true? How good is Ronald?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Do love their uniform?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Great kit? I believe it's called Yeah, I get it?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, right, So that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Puts the idea I'm guessing and I don't want to
extrapolate too much from it, but the idea then is
that you're putting on a front for this person, and
what happens then if the relationship progresses, at some point
you're going to show up and you're like, I don't
really want to watch this game. I don't actually care
(10:22):
about this, and then their.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Surprise going, well, what's wrong with you? This was fine
three months ago?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes, because there is that moment after you stop shagging,
when you actually have to start talking to each other,
and that's all that stuff shows up. It's a difficult
time to go through.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
For everybody you like slam dunk. It's true though, It's
absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And when I got together
with my now husband, even when I met him, like,
I'd done a lot of work on myself up until
that point, but this particular area of my life when
it came to love and relationships was.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
My sore spot.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
My deep, deep, dark, wonderful belief underneath that loves to
mess with me is you're unlovable as you are, You're unlovable.
And like I said, I've done a lot of work,
and still when I met him, when we were dating,
he'd be like, what pizza.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Do you want? Internally?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I don't want pizza externally, Perry Perry chicken please.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
I wrote that story in my book because that's just
how easily I went. I would just jump out of
myself and I would go, I don't want to be
a drainer.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I want to be easy going.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I want to be the kind of girlfriend that's just like, yeah, she's.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Such an awesome chick, she doesn't bust my balls. I
want it to be that one.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
That's an example of that, but again birthed from I
believe I'm unlovable, my ego beliefs, my limiting belief believes
I'm unlovable as I am so Perry Perry Chicken adds
some extra sauce things.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So both of those exams. Let's just talk about the
work one for a second. Yeah, there is an amount
of inauthenticity that has been very beneficial to my career.
All right, I could totally do that. Yes, of course,
I'll see you Monday. The entire weekend spent learning how
(12:19):
to use a bit of software or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever,
so that no one's career exists without that, fully, none
of me being inauthentic to telling the person hiring me yep,
but I deliver yep. So it is, it is there, Yes,
it is so there is surely has got to be
a little bit of play in this one.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And that's why I said before.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Sometimes our personalities that get us into places and spaces
and meetings, et cetera, they can be used for good. Right, So,
like a hyperachiever, for example, if that is their persona
that they have built that has gotten them across the
line in many areas of life, amazing, if that gets
them promoted, if that gets them ahead here or wherever
(13:01):
good for you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
You know, it's when it starts to.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Dominate their life where they then keep chasing that at
the expense of whatever that might be the expense of
their family, the expense of listening to their soul, the
expense of being able to rest, because they're just now
so used to hyperachieving that they have to get the chase,
they have to chase, they have to get the win.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
What I talk.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
About is when it becomes the leading role in our
life that gets a little tricky.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Tell me about what we might be able to do
to because this might be the first time someone's considered this,
or they might have heard this, and God, no, no, no,
I'm definitely authentic, and I'll ask it in this way
just through I don't even care how it happened. But
I know that I rarely get context clues from a
(13:58):
situation that I'm in. Something's going in a good or
bad direction? Right, Just notice inside my body, Ah, that's weird.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Ah, this is.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Usually my notice thing that something's not great here. Like
I don't notice something sometimes I don't just where my
brain is. Sometimes I don't know faces or emotion sometimes,
but my body does, and so maybe that's the way
to answer the question. But how might we explore and
how a might being the feeling of inauthenticity show.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Up within us.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
It's such a good question, and you pointed out just
a really important one body awareness. So if before, you know, like,
for example, me coming here, if I'm relaxed, if I'm good,
if I'm just you know, fluffing up my hair and
getting ready, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Great hair by the way, like it's whatever's going on there,
you know it's a perm. Well, now this is a
thing that's as a perm supreme.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's supreme, because I mean, I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm nearly fifty one. I've got all my own hair.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's pretty You've got Filipino Filipina going on here. So
there's like a lot of follicle you can work with.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Pretty good.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
They are thick follicles.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Be there's a joint.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I was actually thinking about it because you know, I'm
in the mullet years, and I was asking.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You always ask them hair and makeup artists where should
I go?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And they get there's a place, and it's in Haymarket
and they only do Korean boy band mullets. It's the
only thing they do. That's it. They just look after
all of your ts boys, and that's the one haircut.
Go get it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I might have to be it's the one.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's there's no like, there's no photos of like which
one I want to seventeen?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Please? Wan? The shortback and eye is like, nope, you're
getting that one. You get the BTS. That's it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But they do perms, they perm they perm the boys.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I ask every year, I say to my hairdresser, are
you are you with me for another year? Because what
the hell am I going to do without you? And
this perm it is. I appreciate the acknowledgment' thank you.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I can't remember what we're talking about before. We were
talking about recognizing things now.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Were so yeah before.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
If I'm there fluffing my hair, feeling good, feeling relaxed
in the uber, feeling chill, and then when I rock
up to the building and I notice, like I said before,
if I'm holding my stomach, or if I'm feeling really
tight in my chest, if I'm only breathing in the
upper area of my chest and not deep into my belly,
(16:22):
or if I'm clenching my jaw. If my shoulders are
really tight, that's a really beautiful indicator of hey, hey,
something might be going on here, and what is going
on here? So body awareness is it's such a big clue.
It's such a big clue because your body is there
in time and space and if we can get out
of our head to acknowledge what is currently going in
(16:44):
my body? Can I do a quick body scan of
all right, there's something going on in my gut?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Is there an emotion there? Okay?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Is that emotion pizza last night? Is it still fucking
with me? Or?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Am I scared?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Exactly? Exactly? I know it's going to be scared because
now I.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Don't do very very fast or anymore? Am I like do? Okay?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So if I'm scared, then what story might I be
telling myself? I'm I'm less than usher, I'm not as
cool as Usher. What if I stuff up on this
and it's like okay, cool? How can I get present again?
How can I come back into my relaxed, at ease
and natural self. And for every single person, that's going
(17:32):
to be something different. It might be a little phrase,
it might be a little tap, might be you know,
just a quiet you know, pad on the chest or
a little rub of the legs or just closing of
the eyes for me as another example, if people find
it difficult for body awareness, what I tend to find
(17:54):
is when I am inauthentic or when I am off,
I like I drain my energy really quickly. Now I
know that still comes back to body awareness, but it's
like I go to something and I had all this
energy and I come back and I'm ruined.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I'm spent.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I've got nothing left in me, none of me is
left intact. Right, So again I know that comes down
to body awareness, but it's like, wow, how much did
I give out?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And was that necessary?
Speaker 4 (18:26):
And if it wasn't necessary, then why did I feel
the need to give that much out? Again, it comes
to what's the story going on in my head? What's
the belief rattling around in there?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And what are some things we might be able to
do to identify what that story is.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
So like I write in my book and I didn't
mean that.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Actually didn't mean that.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
You can buy a PDF course always be closing.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
My husband says that too.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
There is an exercise in there called the ego clearing exercise, Right,
so you know, that picture of the iceberg, So there's
a little bit above the water and there's like a
shit ton below the water. This is what it does.
That's what the ego clearing exercise is meant to do.
(19:20):
It's meant to deep dive into the stuff that goes
on inside of your head. So part of it is
what's the situation. Situation is I had an event. I've
come away from it and I am completely spent. None
of me is left intact. So situation is that's what
I did, and now I feel like this thoughts are
(19:40):
I felt like I needed to perform. I felt like
I needed to impress. I felt like I needed to
be important. I felt like I needed to whatever it
might be. And then we take the tool a little
bit deeper where we go, what am I now making
this mean about me?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Right?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Because that's what the ego does. It puts a lot
of meaning on ourself. That can it then compares ourself
against others, and then it can have a pretty jaded
view of life. So if we use that example, what
the ego might be making it mean about yourself is
(20:15):
as I am, I'm not enough. Everyone else seems to
have that something they've got the factor. They got the sparkle.
They were born with something that I don't have. I
have to work doubly as hard as what they have to.
And so we're starting to get into Okay, here is
some painful territory. No one wants to do this work,
(20:36):
but I believe it's important work. Right to we start
to get to know ourselves. And that's why I call
it befriending the ego. It's not about pretending it doesn't exist.
It's about really coming close to it and going what's
going on here?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And so if that's.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
What it believes about yourself and then about others, then
usually that's when it will start to say life's unfair,
life's a joke. It easier than me. Life's not, you know,
supporting me. The universe doesn't have my back, whatever it
might be. The next two questions are, if I remained
focused on this, what's the outcome?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Right?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
If I remain focused on I am not enough as
I am, what's the outcome? The outcome is you'll never
get to know who you are because you'll forever be
thinking that you have to be more.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Than who you are.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
And the last question of the exercise is what's my
true next best step or what's my truth? Or where
would I rather place my focus? Or what am I
going to make matter that is more than this? And
that's where the work begins. Right. Everyone's answer to that
question is going to be very personal, and that I
believe comes from our intuition or in a voice or
(21:46):
maybe a therapist, maybe the you know, when you're out
in nature and just something comes to you.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
As an example, what could that next best step look like?
In the example you've given of, like, I've been in
a work thing and absolutely cooked by the end of it,
way more than I normally am. It was so far
from what I'm comfortable, and you've done all these things.
What it's the final moment there? What's the next best
step look like? What can it look like?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
So what it can look like is, for an example,
deeper self inquiry into this. So, for example, that deeper
self inquiry might look like, how often am I doing this?
How often am I doing this? Am I doing this
more than I've cared to acknowledge? And if then that
person starts to see a real pattern, a real pattern
(22:34):
that has played across their relationships, their work, wherever it
may be, then that next best step would lead to
where is this come from?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Because some people don't know where their beliefs have come from.
They don't know why it's there. They don't know what
might have happened in childhood or whatever whatever it might be.
Where did this belief come from? And did it come
from watching my dad or my mum or my caregiver.
Was it a societal belief that I just took on?
(23:06):
Was it sibling rivalry and I thought I have to
be better than my older brother or more important than
my younger sister, whatever it might be another next best step?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
If I can have this belief and not make.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
It like the springboard that I behave from what life
could be possible? How could it be when I walked
into a room. How could it be when I ran
a management meeting? How could it be when I speak
in front of everyone here? To start tapping into some
(23:42):
kind of realm of possibility?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I find it quite useful to then name that.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, what do you mean? Tell me more?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Well?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I give him dumb names. Yeah, really, I give him
dumb superhero names. Well, Captain Catastrophe. He's fucking great at
what he does. And so when I sometimes when I
get that feeling. It's meant to take a while at first,
but once you notice it, it's not like you can
stop this stuff from happening, all right, no one, no,
not at all. It is some of this stuff is
(24:11):
so hardwired. It is like source code. You simply can't
ride over. And that's okay if you know how to
manage it. And so that shows up the moment I
notice it, like, ah, there's captain catastrophe, thanks pal, I'm
just going to keep doing this thing, thanks man, rather
than and because then.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It's just there.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
As soon as you notice it, it's separate from you,
and you find yourself a lot freer to make decisions
that aren't based in that there. It can be tricky
because it sometimes takes about twenty minutes for those hormonal
floods to dissipate, and sometimes I've got to be very
careful about how I'm breathing and stuff like that, so
I don't make a choice from that heightened state. But
(24:54):
you know, if you are, if you're really swinging for
the fences in life, you're going to be exposing yourself
to the that are for intense And I'm a firm
believer and you've got to go. You've got to go
to the point where things are frightening. Otherwise it just
everything gets so boring, looking in places that possibly aren't
healthy for stimulation. Yeah, when we speak about authenticity, we
(25:18):
see authenticity in relationship to I want to be loved,
or I want to be of service, or here's my values.
But we rarely see conversations around authenticity when it comes
to anger upset, which are normal human emotions. What's the
challenge in that, and how can we perhaps find a
(25:42):
space for anger to authentically show up in a safe
way so that we don't then make choices from that place.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
It's a really great point, and I think that sort
of two points. The immediate one that comes up is
anger is an authentic emotion, right, same as sadness, shame, whatever,
whatever like that is an authentic, real, raw natural emotion.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I reckon.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
The second part is, especially in my world, coaching world,
or the spiritual world, personal development world, it's this, this
is a fine line that I dance with it, but
there's always it's like better better better better better better
better better better, do better, be better, positive, be better,
be positive, be better, be happy, be positive.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Written on the podcast, mate, I know it does what
it says on the box.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hoops, not at all. It's quite design. I am here
with you.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know you are. I know you are.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
It's it almost becomes that's not that's not a very
spiritual thing. Is it getting angry? That's not a very this.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is the thing? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah, ah, that's so. I thought you went to a
course and you know you're still angry.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Did you do that weekend thing.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
You did? Ayahuascar? I thought you had some incredible revelation.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
You wrote a book on authenticity, Like, how come you're
still an angry little bitch?
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Because I'm freaking human, you know, And and that.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That's what I talk about.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And again, I really don't mean to keep referencing the
book to plug it. It's just what's in my book, right,
because I know you're giving you hang.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But this is the deal, all right? Tickets to the
Story Club you can check in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Look at us doing our own ads?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
How good? Else? Else is how good are we?
Speaker 4 (27:55):
At the At the end of it, in the epilogue,
I write about the Forever Dance. It's actually it's actually
my favorite part of it because I talk about how
one moment you're gonna feel like you're farting unicorn rainbows,
that you're on top of the world. Everything's in flow,
the universe has got your back. Your wife's being a legend,
(28:16):
your kids are awesome, and you're like, oh my gosh,
everything is on my side. And then someone cuts you
off in traffic. Your wife then sends you a funny
little text or gives you a funny look. Your kids
are being just a little.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Bit more noisy than what they usually would.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
That's gnawing on your perfect alignment that you're having before,
and you're not feeling so ace, and you start to
get angry, and you start to get resentful, you start
to feel ungrateful for your life.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And that's it, right, That is the dance.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Of being human, where we move from and in and
out of authenticity.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
There are layers to it, there are levels to it.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
There's a sliding scale of it, and sometimes we are
so close to it that it's like we've died and
gone to heaven, and other times we are so far
away from it. And my point that I love to
share is that it's all okay, Like it's one hundred
percent all okay now, Obviously, there's the big asterisks of
(29:12):
we want to be able to in safe ways express
our anger, whether it be boxing, whether it be gone
for a run, whether it be I don't know, angry dancing,
whether it be screaming into a pillow, taking a drive
and just listening to Metallica.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Why would I want to listen to soft rock? Why
would I want to listen to like Middle of the
Road old Man music.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Middle of the Road, old man music. What would you
listen to?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh, I'll tell you what I was listening to.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Go oh, okay, okay, whilst you were angry, or just.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Look, let's just say that my electric Harley Davidson and
I had a really fun drive here.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Listening to It's good. If you're being cut off by
an Audi Q seven registration, this is really useful.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Australian Australian kind of hardcore electronica from nineteen ninety five,
using eight bit samples. It sounds like sandpaper. It's terrifying,
but sometimes useful.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
We all have our ill.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Keep derailing it.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I love it, but anger and in the context, I'm
number two of four boys went to an all boys school.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Anger.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I don't think I ever saw healthy anger expression, okay,
and what I when I saw anger expressed, it's something
I did not like. And so expressing anger is something
that I generally don't do.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
If it does happen, I have so little practice at
it does not go well.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Right, How can we, you know, perhaps help young men
around their understanding what anger is and expressing it and
processing it.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
In my view, it needs to be exampled. Right. So
similar to me growing up anger, my mom never expressed it.
My dad didn't.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
The way he did it was like, oh gosh, that's
just so it was like icy and the energy in
the room was just like, oh my gosh, this is horrible.
And the way that he would voice things out.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
And so it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
I've got two step daughters, they're eighteen and sixteen, and
oh gosh, when you become a parent or bonus parent,
I try to say bonus.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Parents, it's a it's a whole different road than that's
another podcast. That's another podcast series.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Oh my gosh, I would happily talk on that one.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
About my stuff that I thought was neatly tight and
packed away and then they.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Just go flickick CLICKI clickick click.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
So when I come if I come back to the
point of exampling it, when I get angry, I oh
my gosh, I internalize it, and it's like I I
se out the whole house. The whole entire energy of
the house gets warped, and no one knows what to do.
They're walking like, can I go here, can I step here?
(32:28):
Can I talk to her? Can I not talk to her?
And I started to notice I was actually just repeating
what my dad did, which is not something I felt
proud of.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
When I was doing.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It liberally didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Automatic.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
So what I have done to be an example is
that when that happens, because it is literally seconds seconds
where my body just goes head goes bang, I have
learned and learning continually to communicate when I'm like that,
And it is so freaking hard to just say I'm
(33:09):
not okay right now. I just said a minute, it's
actually got nothing to do with you or reengage soon, right.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
How does you know an eleven year old or a
twelve year old deal with that?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Surprisingly, these two girls, they're freaking legends, you know, I
know in age, you.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Think they're only eleven, they're only twelve.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
They love that level of authenticity, right, And that's authenticity.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It's being real, it's being real like in that moment,
this is where I am.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
This is where I'm at, and I'm owning it, and
I'm not proud of it. And that's what my younger
stepdaughter says to me. She says, she calls me kitty.
She says, the reason why I never stay mad at
you whenever you get like that is because you own
up to it.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Is because you own up to it.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
And sometimes I actually can't muster the strength to get
the words out of me physically. So then we've got
a group family text message. I'll send them a message
and I'll say, I know you can feel where I'm
at right now. This is what's actually going on. It's
got nothing to do with you. Just give me a moment.
(34:25):
Right when I come back. After I've had my moment,
I've done my work, I've ego cleared, or I've danced
it out, or I've listened to the song that you
were listening to before, which I won't say the name of.
They just welcome me back in. And you know what's interesting,
Might I say, they now do the.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Same thing and that's it, as you would and I
say it all the time, like the hardest thing about parenting,
it's not the sleep. It's not done it. They don't
do what you tell them, but they do everything you
show them. And so you're the one that has to
do any changing if you want them to do anything.
And intense part of you know, speaking about processing and
(35:07):
doing doing that work is like anger is a is
a very important emotion. It can be a very important
signal it is important for us to go we'll haang
on a second, why what was my expectation? And that can,
in my experience, can help dissipate anger pretty quickly. But
also anger is a really good motivator like pain. Pain
is a really good if you can quickly get anger
(35:30):
into a positive decision point to take you in a
different direction so a situation doesn't happen again, it's actually
pretty useful.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Ye, just taking a quick break from cat back in
a moment.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
We talked about, you know what it is to you,
you know, to be authentic a work in a relationship.
Ways that we might identify why is it important to
find our authenticity and the distance between that and the
experience we're actually having, or things where choices we're making.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
What are some things that can happen to us if
we are out of that alignment?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And more are what are some ways that might show
up as a way of coping with the distance between
now authentic self and the life that we're living.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Well, that's a big question coming back to one of
your questions that you said just then about why is
it important in my view when we are not in
touch with ourselves, not in check, not in June, not close.
Like literally, we are creating lives and outcomes of our
(36:43):
life day by day, moment by moment. And it's like
my husband actually says this, It's like you want to
fly from Melbourne to Japan, but there's this other little
but that's like, ah, I actually want to fly this way, right,
(37:04):
So you want to go to Japan, But then this
other voice is directing you to go and you end
up in Antarctica. We can end up in completely different
destinations where I think, how at some point in our
lives we wake up and go where am I and
(37:24):
what is this? And is this it? And what am
I doing? Why am I doing this? Is this important
to me? Does this matter to me, and then we
have this incredible existential crisis moment.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Sometimes we need that. Sometimes we need those full blown
Gnali wake up calls where maybe along the way we
haven't listened. There's been these nudges, There's been people along
the way they're like, is this really kind of where
you want to go? We've heard that in a voice,
and we're like, what the hell is out? I don't
want to listen to that, and we keep We think
we're going to Japan, but we end up in Antarctica.
(38:00):
Why is it freezing? Why is it cold? Why am
I unprepared for this? Why is this not fulfilling? Why
is this not the destination that I want to be?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
There is no Ramen?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
There is no Ramen?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
What is this? Where is my bullet train? Why is
there no B day on the bullet train?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Oh my gosh, I love how your brain works.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
True though, you don't know what actual technological enhancement of
life is until you have used a Toto B day
at three hundred and five kilometers an hour between Kyoto
and Narita Airport, Like this is azing. Just the push
a button, I know, and I'm doing three hundred ks
(38:38):
an hour as Mount Fuji is out the window and.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
See, wouldn't you prefer to be there? Then Antarctica with.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
A clean bottom. It's it's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Now that's the dream, that's that's where we want to be.
We want clean eating ramen in Japan on.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
The Just push that when you go to Japan. Just
push the button. Just push the button. Don't be afraid
far out.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
And this is where have you heard of the enneagram before?
What is the So the enneagram are nine different personality profiles.
It's this beautiful way of seeing our personalities in action.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Like I was sharing before and what we were talking
about before.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Sometimes our personalities are really awesome and they can get
us into call places, spaces, et cetera. And then other
times when they are the leading a leading man woman
in our life, not so great. So there's the reformer,
which is about being a perfectionist. There's the helper, people pleaser,
the achiever, the individualist, the investigator, the challenger, the peacemaker.
(39:49):
And I love I love that work. I love that
work because, like I was sharing before, there's a sliding
scale to our personality. And coming back to a question
why I believe it's important is because when our people pleaser,
for example, is way too far up the front and
puts everyone in front of them, wants to help everyone,
wants to do everything for everyone.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Is a Mary.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
I don't have needs, I don't need your help. I'm good,
I'm fine. Don't cook for me, don't clean for me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
In the back of them, they have got expectations that
are building up that they don't know about. If they're
unaware they're doing, they're doing there being everything for everyone
whilst building up this expectation pile building up resentment.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
That box is getting very very very very full.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
And if they don't get back the amount of love
that they're giving out, they ain't happy, right that anger
comes out, So they deny their anger. They don't experience anger.
They're a positive person, they're a happy person. And then
they get pissed off and they get miffed. And if
they dedicate their life to that being a marty being
(41:01):
pissed off, being a marter being pissed off, where do
they get to live, Like, when do they get to live?
Speaker 3 (41:06):
What do they actually want? What would they actually like?
Speaker 4 (41:09):
What actually is important to them those questions, and that's
just for one particular personality type never get asked. And
to me, have you read the book The Top Five
Regrets of the Dying.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, she's a former palliative care nurse. Yes, who looked
after people for quite a long career. Yes, and just
asked the same questions of the people that came under
her care.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And they're pretty standard.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Pretty standard.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's not I really wish I scrolled through my phone more.
It's not that I can guarantee it.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I know.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
And it's not that I lived for everyone else. It's
not that I worked the hardest. It's I wish I
lived a life more true to me. I wish I
allowed myself to be more happy. I wish I didn't
work so hard. I can't remember the other two. There's
top five, but I can't remember the other We ate more.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Fiber didn't get so far behind on Survivor because when
it's like it's been a week and the tribal cons
will make any sense because I don't know the ramifications
of what's been going on and now I'm like ten
hours in, I've got such a time lag.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
That's probably one of the answers she got, that's it,
it'll be mine. But yeah, so it's it's understanding like.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
What kind of life you end up with If you
go between Marta and pissed off Marter and pistol Marter
and pissed off, you'll find yourself in this situation where
like the pain of your day to day life might
be so great yep, you might need things outside of
yourself to manage that.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Correct, and that can start to become quite unhealthy.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
Correct, And then we get to the end of our life,
like she talks about in her book, and wonder why
we did that?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Why did I do that? Why did I spend my
life on that?
Speaker 4 (43:07):
For each particular personality type, it'll be different. So, for example,
there's an achiever in there. They're going, they're going, they're doing,
they're doing, they're being They're like, they're being going and
being for everything in order to feel like they're enough,
in order to feel like they're valid, in order to
(43:28):
feel like they've got a place in the world, and
that they've they're earning their place. I mean, all the
while that that is happening, and they're pushing and they're
foregoing deeper matters that voice that's calling them to maybe
take the damn chill pill, to sit and rest and
(43:48):
be present with your kids, to take a nice stroll
in a park rather than always have to, I don't know,
do an iron man or a triathlon. All the while,
whilst that is being ignored and that push push push
is going on, their partner is looking elsewhere. Their relationship
(44:10):
is going down the toilet. Their kids feel like they
don't have a parental one, parental figure that's just not present,
so they're more close to the other. They're looking for
someone else to feel that, to fill that space. And
as that starts to happen, that person that's pushing and
going and achieving, there's an emptiness there, you know, there's
(44:36):
a pit that's just waiting, waiting for them to probably
get sick, have a heart attack. I used to be
a nurse. I used to work in the cardiothoracic sward,
and I looked after pretty much men and forty five
fifty five, sometimes up to sixty day four without fail.
(44:57):
They would break down, break down, What have I done
with my life? Why have I worked so hard? I
miss my family. I should have taken that holiday with him.
It's the same thing.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
What do you think needs to happen if people might
be listening to this going, I don't know. I'm fine,
it's everybody else. What kind of needs to happen? How
do people get to that day for a moment without
meeting you in a cardiac careward?
Speaker 3 (45:20):
You know what, some people might not right.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
I know people in my circle who have got parents
who are older, who have had multiple heart attacks, multiple stents, strokes,
and they're back at it, and they're back at it
and they're back at it. And my dad really bravely
said to me one day, I commend you for the
work you do on.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yourself because I could never do it.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
And as much as I'd like to do it, I
think I'm too scared what I'd find out right authentic?
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, that was his truth.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
He was being very real, and that actually really shifted
my perspective because before that I was like, come on,
just change your life, just do this and do that
and you'll feel better and you won't be so angry,
and la la, la la la. It was at that
point I had a different kind of respect for people
who are like, still going, still going, no matter what,
(46:22):
no matter how much the universe is trying to shove
a wake up call in their face.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
There are some people that maybe just won't wake up
to it and don't want to, like my dad, and
I've got to respect that.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I know some people out there might be listening.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
They're like, Oh, if only my parent would be like this,
if only my parent would change, then they would be healthier,
and you know that they would live a better life
and they could have more ten more years. And we
also have to come back to remember each of us
are here for our own individual experience, and we get
like we get the power of choice.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
But as you mentioned, it is it is an ongoing
form of maintenance for me. All this this kind of
stuff has been happening largely in the last fifteen years,
which is no mistake that it coincides with getting sober.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
But you know, if I look back at.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
The person you know that I used to be, it
was almost unrecognizable. And I wonder, because, let's say, for example,
or someone's listening to this, I don't know there mid twenties,
late twenties, what what does that catch on look like
versus you here today mid twenties.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
I had just healed myself from brain surgery chronic pain
without any medication, which was gnally.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I'm assuming there was some medication with the brain surgery part.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Yes, okay, good, yeah, yeah, yeah, after a.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I mean you can dry but yeah, my white blood
I'm trusting my white blood cells with this one here,
but maybe not with.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Not an open wound. No, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
Look, back then, I was out partying, I was out
taking a lot of drugs, running away from my past
or running away from whatever hurt internally. And yeah, I
had a body full of chronic pain registered nurse like,
becoming overweight, popping pills from panatoll to oxycodone to valium
(48:40):
to try and sleep pretty much all the time. But
at twenty five, yeah, that was That was the first
year I was chronic pain free after six years.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
And but prior.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
To that, I was overweight, very very very mentally dark,
really really dark. Being told that I might just have
to manage this for the rest of my life was
the worst thing I could have heard, but the best thing,
because this stubbornness inside of me just said, fuck that
(49:12):
this is I will not accept this. I want to
accept this from myself. I want to accept this from
that surgeon. I must find another way.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I was very much the same with when I was
on the antipsychotics and everything, getting told note, yeah, this
is kind of this, you know, this is what it is.
I was like, what the fucky? This is every day?
I'm just my insulance. I'm just going to put on
like a kilo a week and til what I know,
I ran out of clothes. And I literally said the
same thing, like, if this is what every day looks like,
(49:43):
you know what?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Fuck that. I'm going to do everything I can to
not be this. But it's not that the work is.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
It's that the easier path to take was to just
do that what they were saying, which is fine if
you want to do that, and I understand it might
be too much to lift, but yeah, I just I
just refuse to accept.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Really only all day.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Yeah no, I don't want that, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
It's you kind of do have to come to that
pain point, don't you.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
You kind of have to come.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
To that point to your knees. Yeah, to your knees.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
And in my case, I had to understand that, oh,
I'm the reason I'm down here, that's the one.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
You're all the heart like those dark Knights soul.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, it's true, though only when you get to that point.
Only when you get to that point does any of
this actually work. When you're doing it for somebody else,
it doesn't work, but it is wonderfully. There's are questions
you can ask yourself quietly by yourself. No one else
has asking these questions. You can, you know, you can
be the one that what is my actual responsibility? Did
I choose to stay in that job? How long have
(50:56):
I chosen to stay here because it's.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Easier than not going. No one else has to know.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But that's when you can have those moments to ask
yourself those questions. And Yeah, one last thing I have noticed,
just anecdotally through you know, researching this interview, that moving
and dancing is a part of your life. And I
have recently had some experience in this space. So how
(51:25):
did that come into your life and what do you
get out of it?
Speaker 4 (51:28):
I dance from when I was a kid, it's when
I'm from the age of four.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
I just loved it.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Having been a dance dad. Part of your father's annoyance
is starting to make sense to me, because.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
To watch everyone else except your kid is very annoying
to see the same dance sing time, good show, exactly, exactly,
exactly do you dance as a kid.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
I danced as a kid.
Speaker 4 (51:50):
But also in the Filipino culture like dance, music, singing.
It's just they know how to dance, they know how
to sing. Except my mom can't sing, haha, but she
can dance. My gosh, you can dance. So I danced
from when I was a kid, and I just I
loved it.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
It was very joyful for me.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Then dance I was up in high school, dance when
I was out partying and taking drugs and having a
great old time. And then this chronic pain stopped everything
in my tracks. What it gave me, what I loved
about it, well, what it gave me before was joy.
Right when I was doing choreograph dance. Have you heard
(52:28):
of five rhythms? Oh my gosh, that is cool. I
remember I was doing this chakra empowerment course when I
was in my like who the hell am I will
let me find myself phase and one of the pieces
of homework was to go to five rhythms. And it's
this free dance. So you go there music playing two hours,
there's five different rhythms of dance, chaos, lyricals toaccato stillness
(52:54):
and something else. I always forget the fifth anyway, I
walked in, Oh gosh, and I was such a judgy bitch.
I'm like, these are not my kind of people. This
is not my music. This is full of hippies. I'm
just going to go home. I don't care. Take my
twenty five bucks. I'm out skis. And then the stubbornness
(53:14):
came back, which this is where I love my stubbornness,
and was like, ah, twenty minutes, give it twenty minutes. Literally,
people were just in there doing whatever they wanted to do, dancing.
Some guy was walking around roaring right because that was
his expression. Eventually, after about twenty minutes, I gave myself
to the rhythm and free freedom, total utter freedom. I
(53:42):
was like, this is what it feels like to be
in my body, to feel totally safe in my body,
to feel free and at liberty to move it however
the hell I want to move it not a piece
of choreography in sight, and I felt incredible.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
That's what it gives me.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
And so now you use that through the day as
part of you mentioned at the start of our conversation
about being bodily aware. Does you know if you're in
a point where there's a I don't know, like a
peak of you know, some sort of hormonal release in
your body, were like, eh, can you find just like
whacking out a couple of bars and a quick little boogaloo.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Will full und your game.
Speaker 4 (54:22):
It's usually I always choose emotive music songs where like
this is me from the Greatest Showman Good where I
don't quite sometimes I don't quite know how I'm feeling.
And then if I put a song like that on,
or some some of Pink's songs that are a motive
that just do the speaking for me, and then there's
(54:45):
just this rush of emotion that comes and it falls
out of my eyes in the form of tears, and
I'm like, thank you.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
I don't know what that was. I don't know what
that is there it is.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
I prefer just whacking on some motown or some stacks
Stacks or stax recks towards myself.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Get a bit of Sam and Dave. Hold on, I'm
coming on.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I'll do the whitest white man dance to the two
of the heaviest brothers. That's a song all about rooting,
but it made it onto the top ten that has
in the past. That is really like turning literally turning
a light switch on and off for my emotional state,
and it's really useful. So I thoroughly recommend that people
get out of this podcast, open up some sort of
music thing and just give.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
It a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
We should create a playlist.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, I'll put I'll put a play You put a
couple of tracks and I'll put a couple of tracks on.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
We'll work it in the show notes. How about that?
As long as as well as a.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Link to catch On's Brandy book available now on People
in Random Hills.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Thanks for
going pleasure.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
That was Cat John, How great is kat?
Speaker 1 (55:45):
If you want to have a boogie, If you want
to boogie the hevgbs away, you can find a link
to the blowlist. You'll find that in the show notes,
along with where you can get tickets to the next
live show of story Club.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
And where you can pre order the books.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
So what now? What? Thank you so much for getting
around the show. There's also a link to the substack
in there. Thanks Adam Bunch for producing this episode your Ace.
I hope you have a fantastic week. If you do,
buy the book, screenshot your proof of purchase and email
me Sandos your email at gmail dot com and I'll.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Shoot you back something to say thanks. I'll see her
on Monday.
Okay, welcome to the show. Thanks for downloading the podcast.
This is Better Than Yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations
to make your day to day better than yesterday, every
single week since twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name Joshia Ginzburg. I'm very glad you're here.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Ten years ago now, when I was struggling with my
mental health, I really needed to be able to read
a book that would really kind of lay out a
step by step way that I could think about the
problems that I was facing. And I couldn't find a
book that was like the book that I needed. So
I wrote one with the help of an eminent psychologist
(00:36):
who specializes in act or accepting commitment therapy and with
brilliant illustrations boys Truthless, also know as Campbell Walker. It's
called So What Now What? And in this book, I
lay out step by step the very thinking tools that
I found to be nothing short of life changing. It's
a tool, really, it's a book, yes, but it's a tool,
a tool to use when you or someone your love
(00:57):
is kind of struggling and nothing seems to you make
any better, and in fact things are just getting worse.
If you like this podcast, if this podcast brings you value.
The greatest way you could probably repay me at all
is to pre order that book. You can find a
link in the show notes pre order this book. It
sends a massive signal to the publishers of the book
and the people that order books and stockshelves that this
is a book worth getting behind, and I'd really appreciate it.
(01:20):
If you do order the book, email me a screenshot
of when you bought it. Send Asher email at gmail
dot com and I'll send you something to say a big,
big thank you. Now, the book does offer us some advice,
but it is like any advice, it's up to you
to do something with it. There's a piece of advice
that I've heard a lot. I'm sure you have to
just be yourself. Seems simple enough, doesn't that? But is
(01:41):
it really? Today's conversation is all about authenticity, what it
really is, how we can find it for ourselves, and
why it's kind of vital that we do find that authenticity.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
There's also a fair bit.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
In there about dancing to get the worries away, but
we'll get to that right. Just before we get to
my guest today, I forgot to mention that the next
live show if you want to come check out the
live show on the sixth of the July. We're at
(02:16):
the Factory Theater in Merrickville with Story Club. We do
this storytelling show every single month. Joining me is Marley Silva,
Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Ugly, Phil Nadia Townshend, Zoey Norton Lodge.
The theme We're all telling stories long and the theme
everybody needs good neighbors linkers in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
So my guest today, Kat John is her name. She
is fantastic. She's an authenticity coach, She's a speaker, she
hosts a podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Called Raw, Real and Relatable.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
She's the author of the brand new book Authentic Coming
Home to Your True Self. She do' mind having a
bit of a zero fux given boogie on the socials
either And I actually put together a playlist that you'll
hear is talking about music and I'm put together an
entire playlist you'll find link in the show notes. Because
what I do love about Cat is she really devotes
herself to sharing the message of how important it is
(03:05):
to be authentic and helping people to live that way
every single day. And she does this so partly because
she has some very painful firsthand experience in what happens
when you don't live authentically and where that can lead
you to Cat is it delight to be around. She
radiates energy and positivity. You're going to love spending time
with it, just like I did enjoy this conversation with Cat.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
John, thank you for coming pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm grateful, rightful you came, and you must be thrilled
to have a.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Book under your belt. That done. It's quite the thing.
You don't write it once, do you?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You don't write it once, No.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
You got like fives you end up writing it, I reckon.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
There were three passes in that. They were like, yeah,
it's sort of there, nah, sort.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Of there nuh, And then it took me.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
The third would go, we're actually put a mic on,
and I dictated. I just started sharing what I would
usually share, what I was trying to type out, but
I was trying to make it too sophisticated. I was
trying to make it sound smart. I was in my
head about the penguin people. I've got to make it
cool for the penguin people. I'm like, who the hell
are these penguin people? So as soon as I put
(04:19):
the mic on and dictated, I was like, that's what
I look like.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah yeah on paper?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Then it was good, right yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's fatiful.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's tricky to be able to I mean, words are great.
Our youngest is learning how to read them right now.
They're very good for communicating ideas. But sometimes it can
become a bit of a barrier. So it's wonderful we
have tools like that, definitely, because somebody like you might
not have been able to put that book out twenty
years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Without that tool. Correct, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
We are going to probably talk a bit about this
because it is your bread and butter. If we were
going to talk about being authentic, like what is for you?
You talk about authenticity? How do you as a concept?
How do you define it?
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Yeah? I mean, look, it's a big concept and I
think it gets thrown around a lot at the minute.
It's kind of like the cool word authentic leadership or
be authentic or be real or whatever it may be.
You do you, you do you boo? I think is
a hashtag that's been out for a bit, But I guess,
to me, to me, what it is it's to be
(05:25):
relaxed in yourself, to be at ease within yourself. And
I certainly know what it feels like to not feel
relaxed in myself and be at ease with myself and
walk into rooms and think I've got to be like this,
I've got to be like that. My gut is like tight,
my jaw is clenched, I'm holding my breath and it's like, hey,
(05:46):
why am I doing that? Why do I think that
I need to I don't know, put on some kind
of unnatural persona that might get me more likes, that
might get me more fit ins, that might get me
chosen here there or wherever. And I get that sometimes
we need our persona and our personality to get places
(06:07):
in life. But to me, authenticity is it's like it's
taken a seat in yourself and going.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That feels good?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
What does it? Let's, for example, put it in a
work context. What does being authentic like? What is showing
up and being authentic at work look like?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Okay, I'll give you an example. So this morning I
had a speaking engagement and typically before we speaking.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
That corporate money you go get it. You don't make
money selling books in Australia you make money. Talk about
books in Australia.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
This is true.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Oh tell me about it. My second book coming out August.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
This is true, true fact.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So typically, before speaking engagements, this little part of me,
which I call the ego, the part that keeps that
tries to keep me separate from myself, my relaxed, at ease,
authentic self. Oh my gosh, it's just like you better
be funny, you better make them laugh, you better be intelligent,
you better know your stuff, you better be even coming here,
(07:13):
even going to whatever other type of speaking engagement that
I've been to, there is this something there that says
you have to be someone that you're not because who
you are and what you've got to share just ain't enough, right,
just ain't enough. So that might mean if I listen
to that, then I'm going to try and be funny
(07:37):
and I'm going to look for people laughing, and if
they don't laugh, I'm going to feel shit about myself. Right,
I'm going to feel like I've failed. I'm going to
feel like I haven't done my job. So okay, let
me be the smart one. And if I try and
reel off some kind of fact that I'm pulling out
of something I've googled from however long ago. And if
I get someone who raises their eyebrows and it's like
(07:59):
and then write something, I'll think tick.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Right. So then I'll keep putting into my.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Evidence bank, my ego evidence bank, keep doing that because
that's what gets you the tick, the approval, the head nod,
the laugh, the whatever it may be. And then I'd
be walking off that stage or walking away.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
From here, going where was I in that?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Like?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Where was I in that? I wasn't there.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
I was putting on something that I felt I needed
to do in order to fill in the blank.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
So that's how you talk about it in a work context.
What about in a for example, in a relationship context,
in particularly an intimate relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So before my husband.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Wow, I used to date and basically buried my relaxed,
authentic self ten feet under.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I would go there.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Really kind of at the forefront, wondering who would they
like me to be? Who would they like me to be?
So if they like sports, I'd like sports. If they
like to go fishing on the weekends, I love fishing too.
Oh they love that soccer team, Sure, I love that
soccer team. They'll go to the toilet and I'm googling
that soccer team.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Is that moment I love it? Is that moment from
coming to America?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
What is your favorite food? Whatever you like?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Is that where you were loving?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Is?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah? Because I'm thinking that Eddie Murphy having the conversation
really black and Dog.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's like, it's that but I under stand it.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, And so when they would come back from
the bathroom, you'd be like.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Oh, yeah A c. Malan true? How good is Ronald?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Do love their uniform?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Great kit? I believe it's called Yeah, I get it?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, right, So that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Puts the idea I'm guessing and I don't want to
extrapolate too much from it, but the idea then is
that you're putting on a front for this person, and
what happens then if the relationship progresses, at some point
you're going to show up and you're like, I don't
really want to watch this game. I don't actually care
(10:22):
about this, and then their.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Surprise going, well, what's wrong with you? This was fine
three months ago?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes, because there is that moment after you stop shagging,
when you actually have to start talking to each other,
and that's all that stuff shows up. It's a difficult
time to go through.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
For everybody you like slam dunk. It's true though, It's
absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And when I got together
with my now husband, even when I met him, like,
I'd done a lot of work on myself up until
that point, but this particular area of my life when
it came to love and relationships was.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
My sore spot.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
My deep, deep, dark, wonderful belief underneath that loves to
mess with me is you're unlovable as you are, You're unlovable.
And like I said, I've done a lot of work,
and still when I met him, when we were dating,
he'd be like, what pizza.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Do you want? Internally?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I don't want pizza externally, Perry Perry chicken please.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
I wrote that story in my book because that's just
how easily I went. I would just jump out of
myself and I would go, I don't want to be
a drainer.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I want to be easy going.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I want to be the kind of girlfriend that's just like, yeah, she's.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Such an awesome chick, she doesn't bust my balls. I
want it to be that one.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
That's an example of that, but again birthed from I
believe I'm unlovable, my ego beliefs, my limiting belief believes
I'm unlovable as I am so Perry Perry Chicken adds
some extra sauce things.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So both of those exams. Let's just talk about the
work one for a second. Yeah, there is an amount
of inauthenticity that has been very beneficial to my career.
All right, I could totally do that. Yes, of course,
I'll see you Monday. The entire weekend spent learning how
(12:19):
to use a bit of software or whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever,
so that no one's career exists without that, fully, none
of me being inauthentic to telling the person hiring me yep,
but I deliver yep. So it is, it is there, Yes,
it is so there is surely has got to be
a little bit of play in this one.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And that's why I said before.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Sometimes our personalities that get us into places and spaces
and meetings, et cetera, they can be used for good. Right, So,
like a hyperachiever, for example, if that is their persona
that they have built that has gotten them across the
line in many areas of life, amazing, if that gets
them promoted, if that gets them ahead here or wherever
(13:01):
good for you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
You know, it's when it starts to.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Dominate their life where they then keep chasing that at
the expense of whatever that might be the expense of
their family, the expense of listening to their soul, the
expense of being able to rest, because they're just now
so used to hyperachieving that they have to get the chase,
they have to chase, they have to get the win.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
What I talk.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
About is when it becomes the leading role in our
life that gets a little tricky.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Tell me about what we might be able to do
to because this might be the first time someone's considered this,
or they might have heard this, and God, no, no, no,
I'm definitely authentic, and I'll ask it in this way
just through I don't even care how it happened. But
I know that I rarely get context clues from a
(13:58):
situation that I'm in. Something's going in a good or
bad direction? Right, Just notice inside my body, Ah, that's weird.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Ah, this is.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Usually my notice thing that something's not great here. Like
I don't notice something sometimes I don't just where my
brain is. Sometimes I don't know faces or emotion sometimes,
but my body does, and so maybe that's the way
to answer the question. But how might we explore and
how a might being the feeling of inauthenticity show.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Up within us.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
It's such a good question, and you pointed out just
a really important one body awareness. So if before, you know, like,
for example, me coming here, if I'm relaxed, if I'm good,
if I'm just you know, fluffing up my hair and
getting ready, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Great hair by the way, like it's whatever's going on there,
you know it's a perm. Well, now this is a
thing that's as a perm supreme.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's supreme, because I mean, I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm nearly fifty one. I've got all my own hair.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
That's pretty You've got Filipino Filipina going on here. So
there's like a lot of follicle you can work with.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Pretty good.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
They are thick follicles.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Be there's a joint.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I was actually thinking about it because you know, I'm
in the mullet years, and I was asking.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You always ask them hair and makeup artists where should
I go?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And they get there's a place, and it's in Haymarket
and they only do Korean boy band mullets. It's the
only thing they do. That's it. They just look after
all of your ts boys, and that's the one haircut.
Go get it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I might have to be it's the one.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's there's no like, there's no photos of like which
one I want to seventeen?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Please? Wan? The shortback and eye is like, nope, you're
getting that one. You get the BTS. That's it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But they do perms, they perm they perm the boys.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I ask every year, I say to my hairdresser, are
you are you with me for another year? Because what
the hell am I going to do without you? And
this perm it is. I appreciate the acknowledgment' thank you.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I can't remember what we're talking about before. We were
talking about recognizing things now.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Were so yeah before.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
If I'm there fluffing my hair, feeling good, feeling relaxed
in the uber, feeling chill, and then when I rock
up to the building and I notice, like I said before,
if I'm holding my stomach, or if I'm feeling really
tight in my chest, if I'm only breathing in the
upper area of my chest and not deep into my belly,
(16:22):
or if I'm clenching my jaw. If my shoulders are
really tight, that's a really beautiful indicator of hey, hey,
something might be going on here, and what is going
on here? So body awareness is it's such a big clue.
It's such a big clue because your body is there
in time and space and if we can get out
of our head to acknowledge what is currently going in
(16:44):
my body? Can I do a quick body scan of
all right, there's something going on in my gut?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Is there an emotion there? Okay?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Is that emotion pizza last night? Is it still fucking
with me? Or?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Am I scared?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Exactly? Exactly? I know it's going to be scared because
now I.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Don't do very very fast or anymore? Am I like do? Okay?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So if I'm scared, then what story might I be
telling myself? I'm I'm less than usher, I'm not as
cool as Usher. What if I stuff up on this
and it's like okay, cool? How can I get present again?
How can I come back into my relaxed, at ease
and natural self. And for every single person, that's going
(17:32):
to be something different. It might be a little phrase,
it might be a little tap, might be you know,
just a quiet you know, pad on the chest or
a little rub of the legs or just closing of
the eyes for me as another example, if people find
it difficult for body awareness, what I tend to find
(17:54):
is when I am inauthentic or when I am off,
I like I drain my energy really quickly. Now I
know that still comes back to body awareness, but it's
like I go to something and I had all this
energy and I come back and I'm ruined.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I'm spent.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I've got nothing left in me, none of me is
left intact. Right, So again I know that comes down
to body awareness, but it's like, wow, how much did
I give out?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And was that necessary?
Speaker 4 (18:26):
And if it wasn't necessary, then why did I feel
the need to give that much out? Again, it comes
to what's the story going on in my head? What's
the belief rattling around in there?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And what are some things we might be able to
do to identify what that story is.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
So like I write in my book and I didn't
mean that.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Actually didn't mean that.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
You can buy a PDF course always be closing.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
My husband says that too.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
There is an exercise in there called the ego clearing exercise, Right,
so you know, that picture of the iceberg, So there's
a little bit above the water and there's like a
shit ton below the water. This is what it does.
That's what the ego clearing exercise is meant to do.
(19:20):
It's meant to deep dive into the stuff that goes
on inside of your head. So part of it is
what's the situation. Situation is I had an event. I've
come away from it and I am completely spent. None
of me is left intact. So situation is that's what
I did, and now I feel like this thoughts are
(19:40):
I felt like I needed to perform. I felt like
I needed to impress. I felt like I needed to
be important. I felt like I needed to whatever it
might be. And then we take the tool a little
bit deeper where we go, what am I now making
this mean about me?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Right?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Because that's what the ego does. It puts a lot
of meaning on ourself. That can it then compares ourself
against others, and then it can have a pretty jaded
view of life. So if we use that example, what
the ego might be making it mean about yourself is
(20:15):
as I am, I'm not enough. Everyone else seems to
have that something they've got the factor. They got the sparkle.
They were born with something that I don't have. I
have to work doubly as hard as what they have to.
And so we're starting to get into Okay, here is
some painful territory. No one wants to do this work,
(20:36):
but I believe it's important work. Right to we start
to get to know ourselves. And that's why I call
it befriending the ego. It's not about pretending it doesn't exist.
It's about really coming close to it and going what's
going on here?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And so if that's.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
What it believes about yourself and then about others, then
usually that's when it will start to say life's unfair,
life's a joke. It easier than me. Life's not, you know,
supporting me. The universe doesn't have my back, whatever it
might be. The next two questions are, if I remained
focused on this, what's the outcome?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Right?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
If I remain focused on I am not enough as
I am, what's the outcome? The outcome is you'll never
get to know who you are because you'll forever be
thinking that you have to be more.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Than who you are.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
And the last question of the exercise is what's my
true next best step or what's my truth? Or where
would I rather place my focus? Or what am I
going to make matter that is more than this? And
that's where the work begins. Right. Everyone's answer to that
question is going to be very personal, and that I
believe comes from our intuition or in a voice or
(21:46):
maybe a therapist, maybe the you know, when you're out
in nature and just something comes to you.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
As an example, what could that next best step look like?
In the example you've given of, like, I've been in
a work thing and absolutely cooked by the end of it,
way more than I normally am. It was so far
from what I'm comfortable, and you've done all these things.
What it's the final moment there? What's the next best
step look like? What can it look like?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
So what it can look like is, for an example,
deeper self inquiry into this. So, for example, that deeper
self inquiry might look like, how often am I doing this?
How often am I doing this? Am I doing this
more than I've cared to acknowledge? And if then that
person starts to see a real pattern, a real pattern
(22:34):
that has played across their relationships, their work, wherever it
may be, then that next best step would lead to
where is this come from?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Because some people don't know where their beliefs have come from.
They don't know why it's there. They don't know what
might have happened in childhood or whatever whatever it might be.
Where did this belief come from? And did it come
from watching my dad or my mum or my caregiver.
Was it a societal belief that I just took on?
(23:06):
Was it sibling rivalry and I thought I have to
be better than my older brother or more important than
my younger sister, whatever it might be another next best step?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
If I can have this belief and not make.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
It like the springboard that I behave from what life
could be possible? How could it be when I walked
into a room. How could it be when I ran
a management meeting? How could it be when I speak
in front of everyone here? To start tapping into some
(23:42):
kind of realm of possibility?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I find it quite useful to then name that.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, what do you mean? Tell me more?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Well?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I give him dumb names. Yeah, really, I give him
dumb superhero names. Well, Captain Catastrophe. He's fucking great at
what he does. And so when I sometimes when I
get that feeling. It's meant to take a while at first,
but once you notice it, it's not like you can
stop this stuff from happening, all right, no one, no,
not at all. It is some of this stuff is
(24:11):
so hardwired. It is like source code. You simply can't
ride over. And that's okay if you know how to
manage it. And so that shows up the moment I
notice it, like, ah, there's captain catastrophe, thanks pal, I'm
just going to keep doing this thing, thanks man, rather
than and because then.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It's just there.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
As soon as you notice it, it's separate from you,
and you find yourself a lot freer to make decisions
that aren't based in that there. It can be tricky
because it sometimes takes about twenty minutes for those hormonal
floods to dissipate, and sometimes I've got to be very
careful about how I'm breathing and stuff like that, so
I don't make a choice from that heightened state. But
(24:54):
you know, if you are, if you're really swinging for
the fences in life, you're going to be exposing yourself
to the that are for intense And I'm a firm
believer and you've got to go. You've got to go
to the point where things are frightening. Otherwise it just
everything gets so boring, looking in places that possibly aren't
healthy for stimulation. Yeah, when we speak about authenticity, we
(25:18):
see authenticity in relationship to I want to be loved,
or I want to be of service, or here's my values.
But we rarely see conversations around authenticity when it comes
to anger upset, which are normal human emotions. What's the
challenge in that, and how can we perhaps find a
(25:42):
space for anger to authentically show up in a safe
way so that we don't then make choices from that place.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
It's a really great point, and I think that sort
of two points. The immediate one that comes up is
anger is an authentic emotion, right, same as sadness, shame, whatever,
whatever like that is an authentic, real, raw natural emotion.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I reckon.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
The second part is, especially in my world, coaching world,
or the spiritual world, personal development world, it's this, this
is a fine line that I dance with it, but
there's always it's like better better better better better better
better better better, do better, be better, positive, be better,
be positive, be better, be happy, be positive.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Written on the podcast, mate, I know it does what
it says on the box.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hoops, not at all. It's quite design. I am here
with you.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know you are. I know you are.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
It's it almost becomes that's not that's not a very
spiritual thing. Is it getting angry? That's not a very this.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is the thing? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah, ah, that's so. I thought you went to a
course and you know you're still angry.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Did you do that weekend thing.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
You did? Ayahuascar? I thought you had some incredible revelation.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
You wrote a book on authenticity, Like, how come you're
still an angry little bitch?
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Because I'm freaking human, you know, And and that.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That's what I talk about.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And again, I really don't mean to keep referencing the
book to plug it. It's just what's in my book, right,
because I know you're giving you hang.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But this is the deal, all right? Tickets to the
Story Club you can check in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Look at us doing our own ads?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
How good? Else? Else is how good are we?
Speaker 4 (27:55):
At the At the end of it, in the epilogue,
I write about the Forever Dance. It's actually it's actually
my favorite part of it because I talk about how
one moment you're gonna feel like you're farting unicorn rainbows,
that you're on top of the world. Everything's in flow,
the universe has got your back. Your wife's being a legend,
(28:16):
your kids are awesome, and you're like, oh my gosh,
everything is on my side. And then someone cuts you
off in traffic. Your wife then sends you a funny
little text or gives you a funny look. Your kids
are being just a little.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Bit more noisy than what they usually would.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
That's gnawing on your perfect alignment that you're having before,
and you're not feeling so ace, and you start to
get angry, and you start to get resentful, you start
to feel ungrateful for your life.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And that's it, right, That is the dance.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Of being human, where we move from and in and
out of authenticity.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
There are layers to it, there are levels to it.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
There's a sliding scale of it, and sometimes we are
so close to it that it's like we've died and
gone to heaven, and other times we are so far
away from it. And my point that I love to
share is that it's all okay, Like it's one hundred
percent all okay now, Obviously, there's the big asterisks of
(29:12):
we want to be able to in safe ways express
our anger, whether it be boxing, whether it be gone
for a run, whether it be I don't know, angry dancing,
whether it be screaming into a pillow, taking a drive
and just listening to Metallica.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Why would I want to listen to soft rock? Why
would I want to listen to like Middle of the
Road old Man music.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Middle of the Road, old man music. What would you
listen to?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh, I'll tell you what I was listening to.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Go oh, okay, okay, whilst you were angry, or just.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Look, let's just say that my electric Harley Davidson and
I had a really fun drive here.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Listening to It's good. If you're being cut off by
an Audi Q seven registration, this is really useful.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Australian Australian kind of hardcore electronica from nineteen ninety five,
using eight bit samples. It sounds like sandpaper. It's terrifying,
but sometimes useful.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
We all have our ill.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Keep derailing it.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I love it, but anger and in the context, I'm
number two of four boys went to an all boys school.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Anger.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I don't think I ever saw healthy anger expression, okay,
and what I when I saw anger expressed, it's something
I did not like. And so expressing anger is something
that I generally don't do.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
If it does happen, I have so little practice at
it does not go well.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Right, How can we, you know, perhaps help young men
around their understanding what anger is and expressing it and
processing it.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
In my view, it needs to be exampled. Right. So
similar to me growing up anger, my mom never expressed it.
My dad didn't.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
The way he did it was like, oh gosh, that's
just so it was like icy and the energy in
the room was just like, oh my gosh, this is horrible.
And the way that he would voice things out.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
And so it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
I've got two step daughters, they're eighteen and sixteen, and
oh gosh, when you become a parent or bonus parent,
I try to say bonus.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Parents, it's a it's a whole different road than that's
another podcast. That's another podcast series.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Oh my gosh, I would happily talk on that one.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
About my stuff that I thought was neatly tight and
packed away and then they.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Just go flickick CLICKI clickick click.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
So when I come if I come back to the
point of exampling it, when I get angry, I oh
my gosh, I internalize it, and it's like I I
se out the whole house. The whole entire energy of
the house gets warped, and no one knows what to do.
They're walking like, can I go here, can I step here?
(32:28):
Can I talk to her? Can I not talk to her?
And I started to notice I was actually just repeating
what my dad did, which is not something I felt
proud of.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
When I was doing.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It liberally didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Automatic.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
So what I have done to be an example is
that when that happens, because it is literally seconds seconds
where my body just goes head goes bang, I have
learned and learning continually to communicate when I'm like that,
And it is so freaking hard to just say I'm
(33:09):
not okay right now. I just said a minute, it's
actually got nothing to do with you or reengage soon, right.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
How does you know an eleven year old or a
twelve year old deal with that?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Surprisingly, these two girls, they're freaking legends, you know, I
know in age, you.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Think they're only eleven, they're only twelve.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
They love that level of authenticity, right, And that's authenticity.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It's being real, it's being real like in that moment,
this is where I am.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
This is where I'm at, and I'm owning it, and
I'm not proud of it. And that's what my younger
stepdaughter says to me. She says, she calls me kitty.
She says, the reason why I never stay mad at
you whenever you get like that is because you own
up to it.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Is because you own up to it.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
And sometimes I actually can't muster the strength to get
the words out of me physically. So then we've got
a group family text message. I'll send them a message
and I'll say, I know you can feel where I'm
at right now. This is what's actually going on. It's
got nothing to do with you. Just give me a moment.
(34:25):
Right when I come back. After I've had my moment,
I've done my work, I've ego cleared, or I've danced
it out, or I've listened to the song that you
were listening to before, which I won't say the name of.
They just welcome me back in. And you know what's interesting,
Might I say, they now do the.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Same thing and that's it, as you would and I
say it all the time, like the hardest thing about parenting,
it's not the sleep. It's not done it. They don't
do what you tell them, but they do everything you
show them. And so you're the one that has to
do any changing if you want them to do anything.
And intense part of you know, speaking about processing and
(35:07):
doing doing that work is like anger is a is
a very important emotion. It can be a very important
signal it is important for us to go we'll haang
on a second, why what was my expectation? And that can,
in my experience, can help dissipate anger pretty quickly. But
also anger is a really good motivator like pain. Pain
is a really good if you can quickly get anger
(35:30):
into a positive decision point to take you in a
different direction so a situation doesn't happen again, it's actually
pretty useful.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Ye, just taking a quick break from cat back in
a moment.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
We talked about, you know what it is to you,
you know, to be authentic a work in a relationship.
Ways that we might identify why is it important to
find our authenticity and the distance between that and the
experience we're actually having, or things where choices we're making.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
What are some things that can happen to us if
we are out of that alignment?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And more are what are some ways that might show
up as a way of coping with the distance between
now authentic self and the life that we're living.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Well, that's a big question coming back to one of
your questions that you said just then about why is
it important in my view when we are not in
touch with ourselves, not in check, not in June, not close.
Like literally, we are creating lives and outcomes of our
(36:43):
life day by day, moment by moment. And it's like
my husband actually says this, It's like you want to
fly from Melbourne to Japan, but there's this other little
but that's like, ah, I actually want to fly this way, right,
(37:04):
So you want to go to Japan, But then this
other voice is directing you to go and you end
up in Antarctica. We can end up in completely different
destinations where I think, how at some point in our
lives we wake up and go where am I and
(37:24):
what is this? And is this it? And what am
I doing? Why am I doing this? Is this important
to me? Does this matter to me, and then we
have this incredible existential crisis moment.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Sometimes we need that. Sometimes we need those full blown
Gnali wake up calls where maybe along the way we
haven't listened. There's been these nudges, There's been people along
the way they're like, is this really kind of where
you want to go? We've heard that in a voice,
and we're like, what the hell is out? I don't
want to listen to that, and we keep We think
we're going to Japan, but we end up in Antarctica.
(38:00):
Why is it freezing? Why is it cold? Why am
I unprepared for this? Why is this not fulfilling? Why
is this not the destination that I want to be?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
There is no Ramen?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
There is no Ramen?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
What is this? Where is my bullet train? Why is
there no B day on the bullet train?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Oh my gosh, I love how your brain works.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
True though, you don't know what actual technological enhancement of
life is until you have used a Toto B day
at three hundred and five kilometers an hour between Kyoto
and Narita Airport, Like this is azing. Just the push
a button, I know, and I'm doing three hundred ks
(38:38):
an hour as Mount Fuji is out the window and.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
See, wouldn't you prefer to be there? Then Antarctica with.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
A clean bottom. It's it's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Now that's the dream, that's that's where we want to be.
We want clean eating ramen in Japan on.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
The Just push that when you go to Japan. Just
push the button. Just push the button. Don't be afraid
far out.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
And this is where have you heard of the enneagram before?
What is the So the enneagram are nine different personality profiles.
It's this beautiful way of seeing our personalities in action.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Like I was sharing before and what we were talking
about before.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Sometimes our personalities are really awesome and they can get
us into call places, spaces, et cetera. And then other
times when they are the leading a leading man woman
in our life, not so great. So there's the reformer,
which is about being a perfectionist. There's the helper, people pleaser,
the achiever, the individualist, the investigator, the challenger, the peacemaker.
(39:49):
And I love I love that work. I love that
work because, like I was sharing before, there's a sliding
scale to our personality. And coming back to a question
why I believe it's important is because when our people pleaser,
for example, is way too far up the front and
puts everyone in front of them, wants to help everyone,
wants to do everything for everyone.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Is a Mary.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
I don't have needs, I don't need your help. I'm good,
I'm fine. Don't cook for me, don't clean for me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
In the back of them, they have got expectations that
are building up that they don't know about. If they're
unaware they're doing, they're doing there being everything for everyone
whilst building up this expectation pile building up resentment.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
That box is getting very very very very full.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
And if they don't get back the amount of love
that they're giving out, they ain't happy, right that anger
comes out, So they deny their anger. They don't experience anger.
They're a positive person, they're a happy person. And then
they get pissed off and they get miffed. And if
they dedicate their life to that being a marty being
(41:01):
pissed off, being a marter being pissed off, where do
they get to live, Like, when do they get to live?
Speaker 3 (41:06):
What do they actually want? What would they actually like?
Speaker 4 (41:09):
What actually is important to them those questions, and that's
just for one particular personality type never get asked. And
to me, have you read the book The Top Five
Regrets of the Dying.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, she's a former palliative care nurse. Yes, who looked
after people for quite a long career. Yes, and just
asked the same questions of the people that came under
her care.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And they're pretty standard.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Pretty standard.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's not I really wish I scrolled through my phone more.
It's not that I can guarantee it.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I know.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
And it's not that I lived for everyone else. It's
not that I worked the hardest. It's I wish I
lived a life more true to me. I wish I
allowed myself to be more happy. I wish I didn't
work so hard. I can't remember the other two. There's
top five, but I can't remember the other We ate more.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Fiber didn't get so far behind on Survivor because when
it's like it's been a week and the tribal cons
will make any sense because I don't know the ramifications
of what's been going on and now I'm like ten
hours in, I've got such a time lag.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
That's probably one of the answers she got, that's it,
it'll be mine. But yeah, so it's it's understanding like.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
What kind of life you end up with If you
go between Marta and pissed off Marter and pistol Marter
and pissed off, you'll find yourself in this situation where
like the pain of your day to day life might
be so great yep, you might need things outside of
yourself to manage that.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Correct, and that can start to become quite unhealthy.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
Correct, And then we get to the end of our life,
like she talks about in her book, and wonder why
we did that?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Why did I do that? Why did I spend my
life on that?
Speaker 4 (43:07):
For each particular personality type, it'll be different. So, for example,
there's an achiever in there. They're going, they're going, they're doing,
they're doing, they're being They're like, they're being going and
being for everything in order to feel like they're enough,
in order to feel like they're valid, in order to
(43:28):
feel like they've got a place in the world, and
that they've they're earning their place. I mean, all the
while that that is happening, and they're pushing and they're
foregoing deeper matters that voice that's calling them to maybe
take the damn chill pill, to sit and rest and
(43:48):
be present with your kids, to take a nice stroll
in a park rather than always have to, I don't know,
do an iron man or a triathlon. All the while,
whilst that is being ignored and that push push push
is going on, their partner is looking elsewhere. Their relationship
(44:10):
is going down the toilet. Their kids feel like they
don't have a parental one, parental figure that's just not present,
so they're more close to the other. They're looking for
someone else to feel that, to fill that space. And
as that starts to happen, that person that's pushing and
going and achieving, there's an emptiness there, you know, there's
(44:36):
a pit that's just waiting, waiting for them to probably
get sick, have a heart attack. I used to be
a nurse. I used to work in the cardiothoracic sward,
and I looked after pretty much men and forty five
fifty five, sometimes up to sixty day four without fail.
(44:57):
They would break down, break down, What have I done
with my life? Why have I worked so hard? I
miss my family. I should have taken that holiday with him.
It's the same thing.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
What do you think needs to happen if people might
be listening to this going, I don't know. I'm fine,
it's everybody else. What kind of needs to happen? How
do people get to that day for a moment without
meeting you in a cardiac careward?
Speaker 3 (45:20):
You know what, some people might not right.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
I know people in my circle who have got parents
who are older, who have had multiple heart attacks, multiple stents, strokes,
and they're back at it, and they're back at it
and they're back at it. And my dad really bravely
said to me one day, I commend you for the
work you do on.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yourself because I could never do it.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
And as much as I'd like to do it, I
think I'm too scared what I'd find out right authentic?
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, that was his truth.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
He was being very real, and that actually really shifted
my perspective because before that I was like, come on,
just change your life, just do this and do that
and you'll feel better and you won't be so angry,
and la la, la la la. It was at that
point I had a different kind of respect for people
who are like, still going, still going, no matter what,
(46:22):
no matter how much the universe is trying to shove
a wake up call in their face.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
There are some people that maybe just won't wake up
to it and don't want to, like my dad, and
I've got to respect that.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I know some people out there might be listening.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
They're like, Oh, if only my parent would be like this,
if only my parent would change, then they would be healthier,
and you know that they would live a better life
and they could have more ten more years. And we
also have to come back to remember each of us
are here for our own individual experience, and we get
like we get the power of choice.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
But as you mentioned, it is it is an ongoing
form of maintenance for me. All this this kind of
stuff has been happening largely in the last fifteen years,
which is no mistake that it coincides with getting sober.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
But you know, if I look back at.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
The person you know that I used to be, it
was almost unrecognizable. And I wonder, because, let's say, for example,
or someone's listening to this, I don't know there mid twenties,
late twenties, what what does that catch on look like
versus you here today mid twenties.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
I had just healed myself from brain surgery chronic pain
without any medication, which was gnally.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I'm assuming there was some medication with the brain surgery part.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Yes, okay, good, yeah, yeah, yeah, after a.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I mean you can dry but yeah, my white blood
I'm trusting my white blood cells with this one here,
but maybe not with.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Not an open wound. No, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
Look, back then, I was out partying, I was out
taking a lot of drugs, running away from my past
or running away from whatever hurt internally. And yeah, I
had a body full of chronic pain registered nurse like,
becoming overweight, popping pills from panatoll to oxycodone to valium
(48:40):
to try and sleep pretty much all the time. But
at twenty five, yeah, that was That was the first
year I was chronic pain free after six years.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
And but prior.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
To that, I was overweight, very very very mentally dark,
really really dark. Being told that I might just have
to manage this for the rest of my life was
the worst thing I could have heard, but the best thing,
because this stubbornness inside of me just said, fuck that
(49:12):
this is I will not accept this. I want to
accept this from myself. I want to accept this from
that surgeon. I must find another way.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I was very much the same with when I was
on the antipsychotics and everything, getting told note, yeah, this
is kind of this, you know, this is what it is.
I was like, what the fucky? This is every day?
I'm just my insulance. I'm just going to put on
like a kilo a week and til what I know,
I ran out of clothes. And I literally said the
same thing, like, if this is what every day looks like,
(49:43):
you know what?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Fuck that. I'm going to do everything I can to
not be this. But it's not that the work is.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
It's that the easier path to take was to just
do that what they were saying, which is fine if
you want to do that, and I understand it might
be too much to lift, but yeah, I just I
just refuse to accept.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Really only all day.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Yeah no, I don't want that, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
It's you kind of do have to come to that
pain point, don't you.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
You kind of have to come.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
To that point to your knees. Yeah, to your knees.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
And in my case, I had to understand that, oh,
I'm the reason I'm down here, that's the one.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
You're all the heart like those dark Knights soul.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, it's true, though only when you get to that point.
Only when you get to that point does any of
this actually work. When you're doing it for somebody else,
it doesn't work, but it is wonderfully. There's are questions
you can ask yourself quietly by yourself. No one else
has asking these questions. You can, you know, you can
be the one that what is my actual responsibility? Did
I choose to stay in that job? How long have
(50:56):
I chosen to stay here because it's.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Easier than not going. No one else has to know.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But that's when you can have those moments to ask
yourself those questions. And Yeah, one last thing I have noticed,
just anecdotally through you know, researching this interview, that moving
and dancing is a part of your life. And I
have recently had some experience in this space. So how
(51:25):
did that come into your life and what do you
get out of it?
Speaker 4 (51:28):
I dance from when I was a kid, it's when
I'm from the age of four.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
I just loved it.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Having been a dance dad. Part of your father's annoyance
is starting to make sense to me, because.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
To watch everyone else except your kid is very annoying
to see the same dance sing time, good show, exactly, exactly,
exactly do you dance as a kid.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
I danced as a kid.
Speaker 4 (51:50):
But also in the Filipino culture like dance, music, singing.
It's just they know how to dance, they know how
to sing. Except my mom can't sing, haha, but she
can dance. My gosh, you can dance. So I danced
from when I was a kid, and I just I
loved it.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
It was very joyful for me.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Then dance I was up in high school, dance when
I was out partying and taking drugs and having a
great old time. And then this chronic pain stopped everything
in my tracks. What it gave me, what I loved
about it, well, what it gave me before was joy.
Right when I was doing choreograph dance. Have you heard
(52:28):
of five rhythms? Oh my gosh, that is cool. I
remember I was doing this chakra empowerment course when I
was in my like who the hell am I will
let me find myself phase and one of the pieces
of homework was to go to five rhythms. And it's
this free dance. So you go there music playing two hours,
there's five different rhythms of dance, chaos, lyricals toaccato stillness
(52:54):
and something else. I always forget the fifth anyway, I
walked in, Oh gosh, and I was such a judgy bitch.
I'm like, these are not my kind of people. This
is not my music. This is full of hippies. I'm
just going to go home. I don't care. Take my
twenty five bucks. I'm out skis. And then the stubbornness
(53:14):
came back, which this is where I love my stubbornness,
and was like, ah, twenty minutes, give it twenty minutes. Literally,
people were just in there doing whatever they wanted to do, dancing.
Some guy was walking around roaring right because that was
his expression. Eventually, after about twenty minutes, I gave myself
to the rhythm and free freedom, total utter freedom. I
(53:42):
was like, this is what it feels like to be
in my body, to feel totally safe in my body,
to feel free and at liberty to move it however
the hell I want to move it not a piece
of choreography in sight, and I felt incredible.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
That's what it gives me.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
And so now you use that through the day as
part of you mentioned at the start of our conversation
about being bodily aware. Does you know if you're in
a point where there's a I don't know, like a
peak of you know, some sort of hormonal release in
your body, were like, eh, can you find just like
whacking out a couple of bars and a quick little boogaloo.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Will full und your game.
Speaker 4 (54:22):
It's usually I always choose emotive music songs where like
this is me from the Greatest Showman Good where I
don't quite sometimes I don't quite know how I'm feeling.
And then if I put a song like that on,
or some some of Pink's songs that are a motive
that just do the speaking for me, and then there's
(54:45):
just this rush of emotion that comes and it falls
out of my eyes in the form of tears, and
I'm like, thank you.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
I don't know what that was. I don't know what
that is there it is.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
I prefer just whacking on some motown or some stacks
Stacks or stax recks towards myself.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Get a bit of Sam and Dave. Hold on, I'm
coming on.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I'll do the whitest white man dance to the two
of the heaviest brothers. That's a song all about rooting,
but it made it onto the top ten that has
in the past. That is really like turning literally turning
a light switch on and off for my emotional state,
and it's really useful. So I thoroughly recommend that people
get out of this podcast, open up some sort of
music thing and just give.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
It a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
We should create a playlist.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, I'll put I'll put a play You put a
couple of tracks and I'll put a couple of tracks on.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
We'll work it in the show notes. How about that?
As long as as well as a.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Link to catch On's Brandy book available now on People
in Random Hills.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Thanks for
going pleasure.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
That was Cat John, How great is kat?
Speaker 1 (55:45):
If you want to have a boogie, If you want
to boogie the hevgbs away, you can find a link
to the blowlist. You'll find that in the show notes,
along with where you can get tickets to the next
live show of story Club.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
And where you can pre order the books.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
So what now? What? Thank you so much for getting
around the show. There's also a link to the substack
in there. Thanks Adam Bunch for producing this episode your Ace.
I hope you have a fantastic week. If you do,
buy the book, screenshot your proof of purchase and email
me Sandos your email at gmail dot com and I'll.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Shoot you back something to say thanks. I'll see her
on Monday.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.