June 15, 2025 • 16 mins
Do you struggle with coming up with ideas on your own? Or properly realising the vision in your head? What if the greatest creativity isn't found in isolation, but emerges only when we truly open ourselves to the brilliance of others?
Osher offers 4 questions for genius ideas and effortless collaborative creativity.
Pre-order “So What, Now What?”
Story Club LIVE, Tickets here
July 6th Factory Theatre Marrickville
Ft Marlee Silva, Merrick Watts, Phil O’Neill and Nadia Townsend, Zoë Norton Lodge and Osher Günsberg
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good day, Welcome to the podcast is Better than Yesterday.
Thanks for downloading it. This show is does what it
says in the box. We've got useful tools and useful
conversations to make your day better than yesterday, and we're
doing it every single week since twenty thirteen. My am
Josh Againsberg. I'm very glad you here. We have a
live show. A new live show is happening on the
sixth of July at the Factory Theater in Marrickville. Huge cast,
(00:24):
Marley Silver, Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Yeah, Ugly Phil, Nadia Townshend,
Zoe Dot and Lodge and myself. The theme of the
show everybody needs good neighbors, live comedy, storytelling, early doors.
You'll be home by nine. I'd love to see you there.
The linkers in the show notes and that is also
where you can pre order your copy of my brand
(00:44):
new books, So What Now What, illustrated by Campbell Walker.
If you like this podcast, so this podcast has been
bringing you value. The greatest way you can repay me
for any good thing that you've got ever out of
this show is to pre order that book, because that
sends a huge signal to the publisher that this book
is worth getting behind. The partners really want it, particularly
(01:05):
if you look in Australia. We also have a live
show we're coming up very very soon. I can't wait
to tell you about that stuff. We did the first
technical test the other day and it's incredible. But yeah,
please bring order the book, and if you do so,
take a screenshot of your proof of purchase and I'll
send you a little something to say thank you. Send
out an email at gmail dot com, just email it
to me. For a long time. Through popular culture, through movies,
(01:29):
through books, or whatever, we kind of have this heroic
vision of a singular creative genius, the solo man or
the solo woman who just has this incredible breakthrough. But
what if the greatest ideas aren't found in isolation, but
only emerge when we truly open ourselves up to be
(01:50):
influenced by the brilliance of other people. I've been thinking
about those questions quite a lot, and we'll get to
the answers right after this. It's really hard to start
from scratch. Starting anything from scratch is very very difficult.
(02:12):
Going from absolutely nothing to a fully formed idea is really,
really tough. It's like trying to pull a rabbit out
of a hat, except you don't know what a rabbit is,
or you don't have a hat, let alone. Do you
know what magic is? You kind of know you want
to do something, need kind of need something to react to.
(02:33):
And I have found that when it comes to creativity,
when it comes to coming up with ideas, even if
their ideas in a completely different direction, I have found
that having something to react to the tiniest spark of anything,
the whole process becomes infinitely easy. That's a whole reason
why when I'm working, when I'm writing, when I'm creating,
(02:56):
I actually make time to go and do stuff that
isn't working right and create, go and see things, experience things,
to do things so that I have something to react to.
So I give myself subconscious something to think about, something
to respond to. And this idea of having something to
react to was a big breakthrough moment when I started
working on this new book somewha now what, because I
(03:18):
knew I wanted it to be illustrated and to be honest,
it was always going to be Cam Walker, also known
as Truthless. And if you don't know Cam's work, I
thoroughly recommend you're checking him out. I've worked with him
for a long time. He's an artist I've admired for
a very very long time. I have huge, huge respect
for him. He's incredibly successful, and he was really the
only person I ever really wanted to do the book.
(03:40):
But when it came time to ask him, I was
kind of apprehensive because I'm he's very accomplished person. He's
worked in the ad industry, He's worked he huge clients,
massive footwear, beverages. He's really a very highly regarded person internationally.
Could I keep up? Would I be able to engage
in work at that kind of level? Would I be
able to properly contribute? Would I hold him back? Would
(04:02):
I be frustrating to work with? I didn't want to
sour our friendship by being a shit person to collaborate with.
But here's the funny thing, Deep inside, somewhere, way way
way down, down down, kind of knew that I was
going to need to be able to give something to
Cam to react to. I was going to need to
be able to give Cam something more than just describing
(04:23):
what it was that I wanted. So about six months
before I even asked Ham to illustrate this book. I
started sketching again, aside from a very brief period where
I toyed with replicating how my favorite comic book artists
could draw human figures, about twelve thirteen years ago. I
(04:45):
haven't picked up a pencil and put it to a
heavy GSM paper since about nineteen eighty six, when I
was in primary school art class, so a really really
long time ago. But I knew I was going to
need to give cam something to work off. And that's
when I remembered my dad. He was a doctor and
in the evenings, as a way to relax, he would
(05:06):
listen to jazz music and smoke a pipe because that's
what you did when you're from Europe. I sit on
a bean bag and using mechanical pencils, rot drink mechanical pencils.
It was his one shop in Brisbane. We used to
go to get them, those big, heavy metal things, so
I think for draftsmen and architects and things to use.
And he would draw these kind of shaded geometric shapes,
(05:30):
cubes and spheres and cones, just vanishing into perspective. I
was always fascinated by that he was doing these repetitive
kind of tessellations as he listened to jazz music and
just do it for hours. So about six months ago,
well six months before I hours Cam, I started practicing
what I'd seen my dad do. Look, I didn't have
a bean bag, nor do I smoke anymore, but I
(05:53):
just draw. Now. I still didn't know what the main
character of my book was going to look like, but
I was just drawing shapes, cubes and trying and cylinders,
because all of nature drawing anything as cubes and triangles
and cylinders and rectangles. So sure enough, when I finally
landed on the lead character of So What Now What,
and I just came to the acceptance like, oh, Cricky,
(06:13):
it's going to be really hard, but I'm going to
need the lead character to be a glove. I knew
that I had to be good. I had to get
better because hands are really, really, really hard to draw.
As you heard Cam and I discussed the other Monday,
there's a reason why comic book characters usually only have
three fingers sometimes for and they always wear gloves because
(06:35):
hands are really hard. They're incredibly expressive things, as Cam
Walker says, they are the eyebrow of their arm, and
they're very very tricky to draw. So because of the
work that I've been doing, when I did finally ask
Cam Hay and he was like really into it. He
was so excited. I was able to so write the words,
this are the words that I want the book to be.
And in this particular moment, I see this glove running
(06:56):
away from this thing, and I was able to draw
it with the kind of facial reactions and the sketches
and stuff that I would want it to do. Now,
this isn't at all about me going how great artistically
I am and how much of an excellent sketch artist
I am, because I'm not. It was about giving Cam
something to start with, something concrete to react to. And
what it did was it made at our collaboration incredibly efficient,
(07:18):
just being able to understand the same vibe of where
we were going. Now, the other really crucial thing about
working with Cam was understanding my place in this. I
am not an expert illustrator. Cam is If in Cam's
expert opinion, this particular picture that we've ended up with
is great, then guess what that pictures great? And that's
(07:39):
the picture that goes in the book. He would say
things like, well, I kind of see that Globy was
trying to do this, and so I made this happen.
You're like perfect. I would never have thought of that.
That makes it even better. No notes, Because there was
a time when my ego would really get in a way,
back when I was working in television and stuff like that.
I would be very selfish on whose idea and who
(08:01):
owned the idea. And you can waste so much time
with endless notes and tweaks and adjustments and try to
make everything fit this exact kind of singular vision of
this has to be what it is. But thankfully I've
learned in the last ten twelve years or so that
if you try and push and pull everyone to conform
to only your idea, it does make people less enthusiastic
(08:24):
about being involved because they don't tend to get their
own input. And that's important for people to have their
own input in the project. But if I can put
my ego aside and truly believe that everybody else there
might just be able to add something that I haven't
thought of, something that is going to make this initial
idea even more excellent, then that's only going to make
the final output, final product, whatever it is we're making
(08:46):
TV show book, it's going to make the final thing
even better. And I reckon that was mostly true. If
there's one hundred and twenty eight or so pages in
the book, there's probably three illustrations where I was really
particular and said, you know, I love what you've gone
with this, but actually for this one, just this one,
(09:07):
I think it just needs to be this simple. It
can't be any And that was only ever it. I
just didn't want anything to confuse those really powerful punching
moments in the book. And Cam was super cool about it,
because he's an excellent collaborator as well. That was also
quite useful. But everything that Cam brought to the table
only made this book more incredible. And that's the point
of a great collaboration, isn't it. By adding two people's
(09:30):
ideas together, you end up with even better ideas than
just the two of them could have ever come up with.
You're creating something far more superior to what either of
you could have achieved a loan. And it's totally okay
if they're not all your ideas, all right, It's like
when we were making the news show the Best Droke wins,
that's it. I don't care who says it, who writes
it doesn't matter best Droke wins. That's always for the
(09:52):
best because if you're trusting other people on the team,
you believe in their expertise, believe that they are wanting
their final project to six it as well, then you
know they're going to do their best. And just because
you may not understand doesn't mean it's not incredible, because
they might be giving you some sort of next level
shit that no one's ever thought of, and if you
(10:12):
can believe their expertise, it's incredibly rewarding for everybody involved.
And that's there's a truly wonderful feeling as well of
just letting go of that precise vision that I had
in my mind. Sometimes now sometimes yeah, like Cam would
bring me an idea something for then me to react
back to, and we'll have a trusting space between us
(10:35):
to go you know what, man, I think the original
idea that you brought was actually more powerful here. And
that's fine too, because it allowed us to explore other possibilities,
and it's important to kind of see what both final
pictures look like and then you can go actually know
this is it, This is actually the one so I've
got to take a quick break. But on the other
side of this, I just I want to distill all
(10:56):
those down into four really simple points and really one
real main, main, main question that I want you to
ask yourself, if you're ever collaborating with anybody, be right back.
(11:17):
When I think about what I've learned about collaborating. Any
TV show I may ever made was always a collaboration,
sometimes with one hundred and fifteen other people. It was
always more rewarding and always more fun when I thought
about it as this is something we're all doing together,
early on, before I got sober and when I was
very at my own ass, if I ever thought about it,
(11:39):
how can I make this make me look more good
about me? It was always a punish and it was
always hard, and it wasn't fun. But when I think
about it in the context of how can all of
us benefit from all of this, it's always better, always better,
because then you're also thinking about it together. You're thinking, well,
(12:01):
what is it we're trying to do with is what's
the job that this thing does? What truly matters in
any project, TV show, group holiday with a family with
your friends, some real estate project, I don't know. Well,
only really matters is what's the job this thing is
here to do? In the instance of so what now
(12:21):
what this book? It's supposed to be a tool. It's
a resource that people can use when they're having a
tough time. And our goal it's how can I make
this book as useful as possible to as many people
as possible, as valuable a tool for someone who's having
a bad day. So when Cam and I were able
to put all of our own ego aside, and it's
(12:42):
not as easy for Cam to do, both of our
work is completely aligning with the value and the job
that this book is trying to do, the value it's
trying to bring to people's lives. It made it super
duper easy. So if you're working with somebody else right now,
his four simple, simple, simple, simple, simple questions to ask
around collaborating powerfully. The question number one, what's the ultimate
(13:06):
value you want to bring through this project for anyone
that's going to experience it or use it. Get really
clear on that value. What is the thing that you
need at the end. So if it's the family holiday,
it's not I want to go on a holiday to
the cold coast what do you really want out of
a holiday? I want a time that my family will remember.
I want to have memories that I can share with
my family. Okay, great. The second thing, what can I
(13:31):
give everybody else to react to? Don't expect people to
come up with ideas out of thin air. If you
offer a starting point, even a rough idea, just a
simple sketch, that makes the collaborative process a lot easier
for everybody. The third thing I would say is try
to put your ego aside, Embrace the expertise of other people,
Recognize that their contributions can make your ideas even better.
(13:55):
Be open to other perspectives, trust their judgment in the
areas of expertise they that are greater than yours, and
just trust that they are into this thing succeeding as
much as you are. And the fourth thing I would
say is try to align on that shared purpose and
that value. When everyone's focused on the benefit of the outcome,
(14:17):
it doesn't matter whose idea it was. It really doesn't.
What matters is achieving the goal of the job that
this thing is here to do. You want incredible memories
with your kids, doesn't matter whose idea it was To
go to work and wild they'll still be talking about
everybody going down the big tube slide at someone's twenty first,
And that's what you really want out of it, isn't it?
(14:39):
The other thing it's just really incredible at working on
this book is I got to work with Cam fucking Walkerman,
the guys Wise Wise Wise. And the other night when
we were on the cusp of sending out the first
review copies to people, and I texted Cam when I said,
I'm sure you've done plenty of videos about this moment,
(15:00):
and this moment is is my idea too fucking out? There?
Is anybody going to get it? You know, this idea
of a book where a glove is talking directly to
the reader. And Cam wrote back to me those two
questions have generally been the experience of my life, But
sometimes I think the opposite questions are worth asking too.
(15:21):
Question one is my idea too boring? And question two?
Will anybody get it? So easily? It feels condescending. Now
those two things hit me in the chest like a
street fighter hadukin. But they're really really important. So you've
(15:42):
got your four steps of collaborating really well, but maybe
ask those ones is my idea too boring? Will anybody
get it so easily that it feels condescending? Maybe ask
those as well, so you can challenge you and your
collaboration partners to really really swing for the fences. I
(16:03):
hope this has brought you some value. I hope you've
enjoyed this today. I've really enjoyed talking about it because,
you know, I was asked to reflect on what it
was to collaborate with Cam and it was really freeing
and really delightful watching what could be possible when I
let go of ego and just trusted, trusted that both
(16:24):
people's ideas would make this thing even greater. You can
pre order your copy of the book right now if
you like, and you'll find a link in the show notes.
Thanks Adam bunch Of for making the show. Talked to
you on Wednesday.
Good day, Welcome to the podcast is Better than Yesterday.
Thanks for downloading it. This show is does what it
says in the box. We've got useful tools and useful
conversations to make your day better than yesterday, and we're
doing it every single week since twenty thirteen. My am
Josh Againsberg. I'm very glad you here. We have a
live show. A new live show is happening on the
sixth of July at the Factory Theater in Marrickville. Huge cast,
(00:24):
Marley Silver, Merrick Watts, Phil O'Neill, Yeah, Ugly Phil, Nadia Townshend,
Zoe Dot and Lodge and myself. The theme of the
show everybody needs good neighbors, live comedy, storytelling, early doors.
You'll be home by nine. I'd love to see you there.
The linkers in the show notes and that is also
where you can pre order your copy of my brand
(00:44):
new books, So What Now What, illustrated by Campbell Walker.
If you like this podcast, so this podcast has been
bringing you value. The greatest way you can repay me
for any good thing that you've got ever out of
this show is to pre order that book, because that
sends a huge signal to the publisher that this book
is worth getting behind. The partners really want it, particularly
(01:05):
if you look in Australia. We also have a live
show we're coming up very very soon. I can't wait
to tell you about that stuff. We did the first
technical test the other day and it's incredible. But yeah,
please bring order the book, and if you do so,
take a screenshot of your proof of purchase and I'll
send you a little something to say thank you. Send
out an email at gmail dot com, just email it
to me. For a long time. Through popular culture, through movies,
(01:29):
through books, or whatever, we kind of have this heroic
vision of a singular creative genius, the solo man or
the solo woman who just has this incredible breakthrough. But
what if the greatest ideas aren't found in isolation, but
only emerge when we truly open ourselves up to be
(01:50):
influenced by the brilliance of other people. I've been thinking
about those questions quite a lot, and we'll get to
the answers right after this. It's really hard to start
from scratch. Starting anything from scratch is very very difficult.
(02:12):
Going from absolutely nothing to a fully formed idea is really,
really tough. It's like trying to pull a rabbit out
of a hat, except you don't know what a rabbit is,
or you don't have a hat, let alone. Do you
know what magic is? You kind of know you want
to do something, need kind of need something to react to.
(02:33):
And I have found that when it comes to creativity,
when it comes to coming up with ideas, even if
their ideas in a completely different direction, I have found
that having something to react to the tiniest spark of anything,
the whole process becomes infinitely easy. That's a whole reason
why when I'm working, when I'm writing, when I'm creating,
(02:56):
I actually make time to go and do stuff that
isn't working right and create, go and see things, experience things,
to do things so that I have something to react to.
So I give myself subconscious something to think about, something
to respond to. And this idea of having something to
react to was a big breakthrough moment when I started
working on this new book somewha now what, because I
(03:18):
knew I wanted it to be illustrated and to be honest,
it was always going to be Cam Walker, also known
as Truthless. And if you don't know Cam's work, I
thoroughly recommend you're checking him out. I've worked with him
for a long time. He's an artist I've admired for
a very very long time. I have huge, huge respect
for him. He's incredibly successful, and he was really the
only person I ever really wanted to do the book.
(03:40):
But when it came time to ask him, I was
kind of apprehensive because I'm he's very accomplished person. He's
worked in the ad industry, He's worked he huge clients,
massive footwear, beverages. He's really a very highly regarded person internationally.
Could I keep up? Would I be able to engage
in work at that kind of level? Would I be
able to properly contribute? Would I hold him back? Would
(04:02):
I be frustrating to work with? I didn't want to
sour our friendship by being a shit person to collaborate with.
But here's the funny thing, Deep inside, somewhere, way way
way down, down down, kind of knew that I was
going to need to be able to give something to
Cam to react to. I was going to need to
be able to give Cam something more than just describing
(04:23):
what it was that I wanted. So about six months
before I even asked Ham to illustrate this book. I
started sketching again, aside from a very brief period where
I toyed with replicating how my favorite comic book artists
could draw human figures, about twelve thirteen years ago. I
(04:45):
haven't picked up a pencil and put it to a
heavy GSM paper since about nineteen eighty six, when I
was in primary school art class, so a really really
long time ago. But I knew I was going to
need to give cam something to work off. And that's
when I remembered my dad. He was a doctor and
in the evenings, as a way to relax, he would
(05:06):
listen to jazz music and smoke a pipe because that's
what you did when you're from Europe. I sit on
a bean bag and using mechanical pencils, rot drink mechanical pencils.
It was his one shop in Brisbane. We used to
go to get them, those big, heavy metal things, so
I think for draftsmen and architects and things to use.
And he would draw these kind of shaded geometric shapes,
(05:30):
cubes and spheres and cones, just vanishing into perspective. I
was always fascinated by that he was doing these repetitive
kind of tessellations as he listened to jazz music and
just do it for hours. So about six months ago,
well six months before I hours Cam, I started practicing
what I'd seen my dad do. Look, I didn't have
a bean bag, nor do I smoke anymore, but I
(05:53):
just draw. Now. I still didn't know what the main
character of my book was going to look like, but
I was just drawing shapes, cubes and trying and cylinders,
because all of nature drawing anything as cubes and triangles
and cylinders and rectangles. So sure enough, when I finally
landed on the lead character of So What Now What,
and I just came to the acceptance like, oh, Cricky,
(06:13):
it's going to be really hard, but I'm going to
need the lead character to be a glove. I knew
that I had to be good. I had to get
better because hands are really, really, really hard to draw.
As you heard Cam and I discussed the other Monday,
there's a reason why comic book characters usually only have
three fingers sometimes for and they always wear gloves because
(06:35):
hands are really hard. They're incredibly expressive things, as Cam
Walker says, they are the eyebrow of their arm, and
they're very very tricky to draw. So because of the
work that I've been doing, when I did finally ask
Cam Hay and he was like really into it. He
was so excited. I was able to so write the words,
this are the words that I want the book to be.
And in this particular moment, I see this glove running
(06:56):
away from this thing, and I was able to draw
it with the kind of facial reactions and the sketches
and stuff that I would want it to do. Now,
this isn't at all about me going how great artistically
I am and how much of an excellent sketch artist
I am, because I'm not. It was about giving Cam
something to start with, something concrete to react to. And
what it did was it made at our collaboration incredibly efficient,
(07:18):
just being able to understand the same vibe of where
we were going. Now, the other really crucial thing about
working with Cam was understanding my place in this. I
am not an expert illustrator. Cam is If in Cam's
expert opinion, this particular picture that we've ended up with
is great, then guess what that pictures great? And that's
(07:39):
the picture that goes in the book. He would say
things like, well, I kind of see that Globy was
trying to do this, and so I made this happen.
You're like perfect. I would never have thought of that.
That makes it even better. No notes, Because there was
a time when my ego would really get in a way,
back when I was working in television and stuff like that.
I would be very selfish on whose idea and who
(08:01):
owned the idea. And you can waste so much time
with endless notes and tweaks and adjustments and try to
make everything fit this exact kind of singular vision of
this has to be what it is. But thankfully I've
learned in the last ten twelve years or so that
if you try and push and pull everyone to conform
to only your idea, it does make people less enthusiastic
(08:24):
about being involved because they don't tend to get their
own input. And that's important for people to have their
own input in the project. But if I can put
my ego aside and truly believe that everybody else there
might just be able to add something that I haven't
thought of, something that is going to make this initial
idea even more excellent, then that's only going to make
the final output, final product, whatever it is we're making
(08:46):
TV show book, it's going to make the final thing
even better. And I reckon that was mostly true. If
there's one hundred and twenty eight or so pages in
the book, there's probably three illustrations where I was really
particular and said, you know, I love what you've gone
with this, but actually for this one, just this one,
(09:07):
I think it just needs to be this simple. It
can't be any And that was only ever it. I
just didn't want anything to confuse those really powerful punching
moments in the book. And Cam was super cool about it,
because he's an excellent collaborator as well. That was also
quite useful. But everything that Cam brought to the table
only made this book more incredible. And that's the point
of a great collaboration, isn't it. By adding two people's
(09:30):
ideas together, you end up with even better ideas than
just the two of them could have ever come up with.
You're creating something far more superior to what either of
you could have achieved a loan. And it's totally okay
if they're not all your ideas, all right, It's like
when we were making the news show the Best Droke wins,
that's it. I don't care who says it, who writes
it doesn't matter best Droke wins. That's always for the
(09:52):
best because if you're trusting other people on the team,
you believe in their expertise, believe that they are wanting
their final project to six it as well, then you
know they're going to do their best. And just because
you may not understand doesn't mean it's not incredible, because
they might be giving you some sort of next level
shit that no one's ever thought of, and if you
(10:12):
can believe their expertise, it's incredibly rewarding for everybody involved.
And that's there's a truly wonderful feeling as well of
just letting go of that precise vision that I had
in my mind. Sometimes now sometimes yeah, like Cam would
bring me an idea something for then me to react
back to, and we'll have a trusting space between us
(10:35):
to go you know what, man, I think the original
idea that you brought was actually more powerful here. And
that's fine too, because it allowed us to explore other possibilities,
and it's important to kind of see what both final
pictures look like and then you can go actually know
this is it, This is actually the one so I've
got to take a quick break. But on the other
side of this, I just I want to distill all
(10:56):
those down into four really simple points and really one
real main, main, main question that I want you to
ask yourself, if you're ever collaborating with anybody, be right back.
(11:17):
When I think about what I've learned about collaborating. Any
TV show I may ever made was always a collaboration,
sometimes with one hundred and fifteen other people. It was
always more rewarding and always more fun when I thought
about it as this is something we're all doing together,
early on, before I got sober and when I was
very at my own ass, if I ever thought about it,
(11:39):
how can I make this make me look more good
about me? It was always a punish and it was
always hard, and it wasn't fun. But when I think
about it in the context of how can all of
us benefit from all of this, it's always better, always better,
because then you're also thinking about it together. You're thinking, well,
(12:01):
what is it we're trying to do with is what's
the job that this thing does? What truly matters in
any project, TV show, group holiday with a family with
your friends, some real estate project, I don't know. Well,
only really matters is what's the job this thing is
here to do? In the instance of so what now
(12:21):
what this book? It's supposed to be a tool. It's
a resource that people can use when they're having a
tough time. And our goal it's how can I make
this book as useful as possible to as many people
as possible, as valuable a tool for someone who's having
a bad day. So when Cam and I were able
to put all of our own ego aside, and it's
(12:42):
not as easy for Cam to do, both of our
work is completely aligning with the value and the job
that this book is trying to do, the value it's
trying to bring to people's lives. It made it super
duper easy. So if you're working with somebody else right now,
his four simple, simple, simple, simple, simple questions to ask
around collaborating powerfully. The question number one, what's the ultimate
(13:06):
value you want to bring through this project for anyone
that's going to experience it or use it. Get really
clear on that value. What is the thing that you
need at the end. So if it's the family holiday,
it's not I want to go on a holiday to
the cold coast what do you really want out of
a holiday? I want a time that my family will remember.
I want to have memories that I can share with
my family. Okay, great. The second thing, what can I
(13:31):
give everybody else to react to? Don't expect people to
come up with ideas out of thin air. If you
offer a starting point, even a rough idea, just a
simple sketch, that makes the collaborative process a lot easier
for everybody. The third thing I would say is try
to put your ego aside, Embrace the expertise of other people,
Recognize that their contributions can make your ideas even better.
(13:55):
Be open to other perspectives, trust their judgment in the
areas of expertise they that are greater than yours, and
just trust that they are into this thing succeeding as
much as you are. And the fourth thing I would
say is try to align on that shared purpose and
that value. When everyone's focused on the benefit of the outcome,
(14:17):
it doesn't matter whose idea it was. It really doesn't.
What matters is achieving the goal of the job that
this thing is here to do. You want incredible memories
with your kids, doesn't matter whose idea it was To
go to work and wild they'll still be talking about
everybody going down the big tube slide at someone's twenty first,
And that's what you really want out of it, isn't it?
(14:39):
The other thing it's just really incredible at working on
this book is I got to work with Cam fucking Walkerman,
the guys Wise Wise Wise. And the other night when
we were on the cusp of sending out the first
review copies to people, and I texted Cam when I said,
I'm sure you've done plenty of videos about this moment,
(15:00):
and this moment is is my idea too fucking out? There?
Is anybody going to get it? You know, this idea
of a book where a glove is talking directly to
the reader. And Cam wrote back to me those two
questions have generally been the experience of my life, But
sometimes I think the opposite questions are worth asking too.
(15:21):
Question one is my idea too boring? And question two?
Will anybody get it? So easily? It feels condescending. Now
those two things hit me in the chest like a
street fighter hadukin. But they're really really important. So you've
(15:42):
got your four steps of collaborating really well, but maybe
ask those ones is my idea too boring? Will anybody
get it so easily that it feels condescending? Maybe ask
those as well, so you can challenge you and your
collaboration partners to really really swing for the fences. I
(16:03):
hope this has brought you some value. I hope you've
enjoyed this today. I've really enjoyed talking about it because,
you know, I was asked to reflect on what it
was to collaborate with Cam and it was really freeing
and really delightful watching what could be possible when I
let go of ego and just trusted, trusted that both
(16:24):
people's ideas would make this thing even greater. You can
pre order your copy of the book right now if
you like, and you'll find a link in the show notes.
Thanks Adam bunch Of for making the show. Talked to
you on Wednesday.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.