May 7, 2025 • 37 mins
In this Beyond Sunday episode, we explore what it means to trust God when He feels silent and prayers seem unanswered. Through honest reflection and the story of Habakkuk, we uncover how seasons of waiting can shape our character, deepen our faith, and remind us that God is still at work—even in the quiet.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Beyond Sunday, the podcast where
we dive into the message seriesof King of Kings Church and
figure out what we're takingbeyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I'mso happy to be here with you
today, and I have some amazingguests once again.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Go ahead guys, are the guests coming in or I'm not
sure?
Yeah, yeah, I'm looking around.
Who are guests coming in or I'mnot sure?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yeah, yeah, I'm looking around.
Who are these guests?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
They'll be here shortly.
You're just the filler.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Great, there you go.
I love that.
Well, I'm the non-amazing ZachZender, multi-site director here
at King of Kings, happy to behere.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, and I actually have incredible self-confidence.
Peter Bay Northwest CampusDirector.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So thank you for being here this week.
This week is National TeacherAppreciation.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I don't know why I thought you were going to say
Tetanus.
I was like, really NationalTetanus Week.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Great, tell your Tetanus story.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'll have to look up when that is and I'll just have
you on that week.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
So teacher appreciation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Teacher appreciation.
So my question is what is yourmost memorable teacher from
growing up Like?
What teacher really made animpact with you?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, high school for me and I had her multiple years
.
She was my Latin teacher atMillard North and we called her
Magistra, which is, I suppose,teacher in Latin, and she just
was a great teacher.
We had so much fun in herclasses and I feel like hardly
anybody like takes Latin tobegin with and it was like this
(01:39):
hidden gem that only the dozenor 15 of us got to experience,
because Magistra was amazing.
She always laughed and just hada great time with us and made
it fun to learn.
And I have found that to betrue with languages, especially
like theological languages as aminor in college, is your
teacher, especially in languages, makes such a difference.
(02:01):
If they're fun, if they're good, if you get a foundation from
the beginning, that language isso much easier.
Difference If they're fun, ifthey're good, if you get a
foundation from the beginning,that language is so much easier,
whereas if they're boring, notgood, awful, it's like man, you
really have to struggle withthat language.
So anyway, I'm giving it up forMagistra, if you're listening.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
All right.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, I have had so many amazing teachers.
I'm going to focus today on MrStock.
Mike Stock he was one of themost stoic people of all time
and so, of course, my goal wasto get him to crack, and he was
also our baseball coach.
A couple of Mike Stock storieshe was my junior high basketball
(02:42):
coach and I wore headbands inhigh school and he said he's not
going to disallow me to, but hesaid I just want you to know
that headbands make you lookshort, slow and stupid.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And so at the awards banquet, yes, wow.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
And so at the awards banquet I went up and put a
headband on during the awardsbanquet and then I was injured.
I had like blown out a shoulderand and he made me.
He said, he said, uh, the nextday in p he's like I don't care
what you're wearing, you can run.
So I had to run the whole nextday in p and then uh, um, so
(03:21):
another to wrap up my, my stockstories, cause I had several of
those types of stories where Ihad antagonized him and he'd get
back at me.
And then one day I was going toa girls varsity basketball game
and he's working behind theticket booth and I say, geez, mr
Stock, you look tired.
What's going on?
He said, well, there's this newdinosaur documentary on
(03:42):
national geographic.
I've been staying up late towatch it each night.
And I said, really, and he goes, peter, I really like dinosaurs
.
And it was just the mostgratifying moment of my life,
wow, to hear Mr Stock, one ofthe most feared teachers, just
open up about dinosaurs.
So here's to you, mr Stock,keep it going.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
My favorite teacher is all the way back from
elementary school.
When you have this certain glow, you see all your teachers in
at that point.
And in first grade I had MrsMeyer, cece Meyer and she was
just the best teacher ever.
We would get rewards for thingsin class and she would always
pick me to do extra duties and Iwas totally a teacher's pet,
(04:25):
you know, raised my hand foreverything and then at the end
of first grade, when I wasgetting very upset that I wasn't
going to have Mrs Meyer anymore, I found out she was moving to
second grade and I got to haveher again two years.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Come on, that's a boy meets world feeding situation.
You went up with them all theway throughout.
Yeah, every on.
That's a boy meets worldfeeding situation.
You went up with them all theway throughout.
Yeah, every year.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
No, this was just two years, but it was the best.
It was absolutely the best, mrsMeyer was the greatest.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I don't know what happened to her after then, cece
Meyer was his name.
That definitely sounds like agospel recording artist.
I grew up in Grand Island CeceMeyer.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Wow, thank you to all the teachers out there.
My goodness, yes, putting upwith kids.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Also, we're in the month of May and there's no
other month.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
that's challenging for school workers as it is,
it's got to be May, right?
Yes?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
It is so hard so teachers keep rocking.
Go get a chocolate shake and welove you.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
We do love you.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Are you paying for their chocolate shake or are you
making?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Just encouragement to have chocolate shakes.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh, there you go, great yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, no, I will not.
So if you find me, I'm stillnot going to yeah, it's just
advice.
If you find me at a place wherethey sell a chocolate shake
maybe yeah, how about that, thenwe can talk.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Okay.
Place where they sell achocolate shake, maybe.
Yeah, how about that?
That's okay.
Any beyond Sunday teacherlisteners, if you happen to be
at a milkshake shop with PeterBay, he will buy you a milkshake
.
Yep, the month of May only.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I was just going to say how long is this good for
Just the month of May?
I mean there are.
How many days are in May?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
31.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I'm going to go to May 30th, 31.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, I'm going to go to May 30th.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Wow, standard 30-day month, that extra day yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
There you go.
Okay, Well, thank you teachers.
Thank you teachers, we love you.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
That's a real giveaway there.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Okay, so now switching gears back to our
Sunday messages, and this lastSunday we were in week three of
our Where's God series and thisweek we really kind of focused
on are you listening, god?
And Pastor Greg took us throughsome different things about how
God is always listening or howwe struggle when we feel like
(06:43):
there's silence.
So what are you guys takingbeyond Sunday?
What really spoke to you thisweek?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean, for me it's actually a struggle that
one of the last things in hismessage was about like living it
as if it's already happened,and that's probably what's gone
with me the most.
He said instead of praying if,pray when, and that by far stood
(07:14):
out to me the most out ofanything in the message and I'm
kind of struggling with it, tobe honest.
To be like Noah if I'm sick,like yes, ultimately I'm going
to be healed forever in eternity, but to pray when I'm healed,
and referring to here on earth,like that feels inauthentic to
me.
Um and so like, honestly I'm,I'm struggling with that and uh,
(07:37):
and praying through that andlike, do I need?
Are my prayers faithless?
And I don't think they are.
But yeah, I think that was agood thing.
That hit me in a way that Iwasn't expecting.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I think for me always good to be reminded of
faith growing in valleys, andthat's what silence often feels
like.
Is a valley not the mountaintop?
Mountaintops are awesome,they're amazing and praise God
for when we have mountaintopexperiences, but if everything's
(08:15):
always a mountaintop, my faithis going to be probably pretty
shallow, and so valleys feellike where silence is, and
that's where faith grows.
And that's not easy, it's not.
It's very complicated, it'schallenging, it's frustrating,
and yet at the end of the day itwill make a more mature faith
(08:38):
in me, which ultimately will bebetter.
But gosh, it's not fun to gothrough valleys.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
It's not fun to be on the top gosh.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It's not fun to go through valleys.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's fun to be on the top and it's not easy to be in
them and not know how long it'sfor.
I think, that's the part thatfrustrates me.
I can get through anything onceI see the light at the end of
the tunnel, you know, oh, we'reon our way up.
Okay, I'm in, I'm in.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I can see it.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But when you're in that period where you just don't
know, that's rough yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
But speaking about mountains, have you guys ever
climbed a mountain?
No, no, zach, I mean yes, yeah,you've probably climbed several
mountains.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
right Like with Peak Challenge, we've done some 14ers
in Colorado.
We got one coming up.
I'm doing it again in June thisyear, so legit.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Listen to you.
Knowing the lingo 14ers, I haveno clue what that means.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So it means you get to an elevation of 14,000 feet
or higher.
I think there's 58 of them inColorado, amazing.
Yeah, so I've done three.
My son Nathan's done five orsix.
That's impressive.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I saw failed on one of them Didn't get up to the top
, but go ahead when you, whenyou got to the top or to the
goal you're trying to make, wasthat feeling exhilarating for
you?
What was it?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It's fun to look out and just see the vast beautiful
creation.
It's cool to do that.
Put my arm around my son Nathan, to take a picture with a sign
of the elevation, maybe evenwith some others, for King of
Kings.
It's fun to exert physical selfand to push past what you feel
(10:16):
like you should have or couldhave gone and to feel
accomplishment.
Yeah, so that's fun for me.
I'm also such a like acompetitive guy that I don't
want to stay on the mountain toptoo long Cause I want to like
get back down fast, Cause I wantto time myself and I got my
watch going and my battery'srunning out and I want to get
you know through the whole thingso I can record all the
(10:36):
calories and get all the metricsand stats and all that stuff.
But that's just a weird quirkything for me.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So is a calorie not burned if your watch doesn't
send it.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It is, but I can't show it to you.
Got it, not that I would showanybody, but I might show
somebody I mean, I guess, thosemountaintop experiences?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I hear that phrase a lot.
I've only climbed one mountainit was Camelback, which is very
different than a 14er.
Still, it's a steep one, though, a steep one and we took the
like adventure tree.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I liked the hard one yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And I got to the top of that mountain and was just so
bummed about it Like I felt noachievement whatsoever.
I was like now I got to climbdown.
I looked, I saw golf courses inthe distance and was like I'd
rather be there.
Yeah be there.
So I yeah, I kind of I need adifferent phrase.
Mountaintop experience wasn'tgood for me.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
That's fair, yeah, so yeah, what would that be for
you?
That would be for somethingthat you feel like
accomplishment and just you know, in a lot of people in these
mountaintop experience they'lltalk about just seeing God's
beautiful, vast creation all inone kind of glimpse.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know, that's funny enough.
It's like I can see that attimes in good community, like at
church or VBS, is is one ofthose for me.
Um, I get to work with the LCMSyouth gathering and being in
worship with 20,000 people isincredible.
(12:08):
So yeah, I think those would bethe equivalent for me.
So yeah, so I can understand it, even though the mountaintop
doesn't always hit like otherpeople might.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'd like to say mine would be a beach experience,
that's how I visualize it,because I'm not a mountain
climber either, but stilllooking at God's beauty on the
beach, but, you know, enjoyingthe sun.
Without quite exerting as muchphysical energy Okay.
(12:43):
So one of the first questionsthat Pastor Greg kind of asked
was what do we do in the midstof silence, when we're
experiencing that silence fromGod, where maybe we've had a
prayer or we're having astruggle and we feel like he's
not answering us right then, orwe feel like we can't hear Him
(13:07):
right then, or we feel like wecan't hear him.
What is something that you guyshave experienced with that, or
what do you go to, or what'swhat spoke to you about that
question?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean honestly, I go to anxiousness and turns out
that's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Who knew?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I'll go to hours of laying in my bed and trying
to figure it out on my own and,yeah, that rarely gets me
anywhere and, honestly, ifanything, when I finally fall
asleep and wake up in themorning, I feel just so much
better about the situation.
Normally, just because I'mreally anxious about something,
(13:44):
uh it, it takes me a while untilI go and talk to a professional
or get you know.
Maybe it's in a Sunday messageor or a podcast or something
that points me to something muchmore important than like.
It's usually God's word thatinvades my life, and then and
then I come out of it a littlebit because I'm reminded by
(14:05):
God's faithfulness rather thanfocusing on whatever my
anxiousness is.
So I'm not sure that I handlesilence terribly well.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, I mean your question is like how do you,
what do you do?
Like I mean, there's a good anda bad side to that.
I think, if I'm honest, the andsometimes I don't know which is
which like my, my naturalresponse, whether it's a flesh
or a spiritual, is to work hard,and so there are times when
that is inappropriate, in timeswhere that's very appropriate
(14:39):
but that's my naturalinclination is, when God is
silent, I will work harder, Iwill do more, and and there's
times where that's healthy andthere's times where that's not,
and I don't always know when itis it's really challenging, like
, especially for me, my innerdialogue can go gosh.
(14:59):
I feel like I'm doing a lot ofthings right and yet the results
, or the place I'm at, or thething that I'm waiting like it
just hasn't materialized, andand that can actually be
unhealthy.
That actually mostly leads toan unhealthy place of God.
(15:21):
Where are you, god?
You've abandoned me, god, I'mdoing all these things, quote
for you and so show up likewhere the heck are you?
And that's really challengingwhen you've there's times when
you hit valleys because you'vedone a dumb thing and you should
be in a valley.
There's times when you're in avalley and someone else has done
a dumb thing and that reallystinks, that you're in the
(15:43):
valley because of them.
And then there's times you'rein a valley not because you've
done anything wrong, but justbecause you're in a valley wrong
, but just because you're in avalley.
And that's the one I strugglewith I think, the most, because
if I know I screwed up or thisperson screwed up so I'm down
here, I get that.
I still have to wrestle withthat.
But if I feel like again myinner dialogue, saying I'm doing
so many things right and I'mstill in a valley, then I get
(16:05):
frustrated and angry with God ofwhat's going on here and I get
impatient and I work, work hard,try to work out, work my way
out of it myself.
So again, most of our answersare not good things.
I mean, there's days whenthere's there's good times,
obviously in there as well, ofif I'm in a valley and God, I
(16:28):
feel like God is silent.
Well, I know God speaks to methrough his word, the Bible, and
so I can actually listen to himat any time.
So God's actually never, reallyalways, silent.
He's always speaking.
It's just am I ready to listen?
And so good times I will gointo the word.
I love to listen to worship.
It gets my mind, my creativity,my vision, my focus.
(16:50):
So I mean those are some of thebetter pieces.
If I'm in a valley, that I'lldo, but it's yeah, it's a
challenge.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I really like what you said about those
valleys where it's not somethingyou did and not something
someone else did, it's just aresult of our broken human world
and you feel very stuck theresometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, and sometimes not even a result of our broken
human world.
Sometimes it's God's plan.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And sometimes you're doing all the things right and
you're still there Like that'sthe.
Greg didn't mention this, butthat's the part about the Joseph
story that I find fascinatingin the Old Testament Is if you
read through Genesis like, justdo it and most people do in
their Bible in a year plan, likeGenesis is the most read book
(17:35):
of the Bible, I bet.
But if you really look at itlike, this is going to take it a
whole different direction.
But there is so many baddecisions in Genesis, so many
bad sexual decisions in Genesis.
The one guy that makes theright sexual decision Joseph,
abstaining from Potiphar's wifegets him thrown into prison and
I'm like that's not fair.
That's the one guy that 50chapters of horrible sexual
decisions.
The one guy that made a goodone is in prison and so like he
(17:58):
didn't do anything wrong, he'sdoing everything right and he's
still like stuck in a placewhere he doesn't deserve to be.
Now we know the end story andwhere that worked out in a
beautiful way and I think thatwill work out for all of us that
are in valleys in a beautifulway.
But it's like gosh, why am I?
Sometimes we're there becauseit's God's plan and that's
really hard to wrestle with.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So I feel like that really ties into the story that
Greg was talking about with theparent who had a kid who was
just killing it at everythingand he felt like he was trying
to change his prayer to pray foralmost some setbacks so that
his child would learn growth andlearn how to turn to God.
(18:38):
That was something that I, likeyou, said you're kind of
chewing on the don't pray ifpray, when I'm really chewing on
that, Like you don't want topray.
Bad things, quote unquote badthings for your child, but how
do you pray for those growthopportunities?
What resonated with you guysabout that?
You're both parents.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah yeah, there's a really popular book.
My favorite book of 2024 wasAnxious Generation, jonathan
Haidt, h-a-i-d-t, and he talksabout the difference between
defend mode and discover mode.
Defend mode is like you takecare of your kids' problems.
When they struggle, you helpthem finish their work, you
defend and maybe even bulldozewith their teachers or whatever
(19:23):
you need to do.
If a coach sits them out andyou don't think it's fair, you
may even go talk to that coach.
That's defend mode.
And what that produces are kidsthat always feel like an adult
needs to take care of theirchallenges, even as they're in
college and older, and then, asolder, the government or my job
or my employer or whatever needsto take care of my challenges,
(19:45):
whereas discover mode is no.
Let your kid fail and set themup for opportunities where they
can succeed or fail on their own.
Uh, it looks like.
Let them cook their own mealevery once in a while, allow
them to experience pain.
Um, love them, but don't jumpin and save the day type thing.
(20:08):
Jump in and save the day typething.
And that was really.
That was really good for me tolearn about.
And discovery mode, inevitably,is going to lead to humans who
are more resilient and who sayit's okay, like I've failed a
bunch of times and I'm stillokay.
And so I get that prayer oflike I want my kid to experience
(20:35):
failure.
When I was a teacher, I used toalways tell the kids they'd be
like why do we have to?
I taught music and religion, somy classes were mostly loved
because they're easy, easygrades.
And they'd be like but we don'tlike science and math.
Like we don't, we're nevergoing to use this and I'm like
some of that.
You won't.
But the purpose of school isyou're learning how to learn.
(20:58):
You're learning how to have anobstacle and fail or succeed and
realize I didn't die.
So the next one I face I cantry again, and that's really a
big goal for me.
Another great book by a childpsychologist right in our midst,
(21:18):
dr Tim Riley, is First theBroccoli, then the Ice Cream,
and he talks about thatproviding a safe haven for your
kids while also them allowingthem opportunities to fail, so
that they can grow up knowingthat, like, regardless of my
success or not, my identity isnot in that.
And as a christian, my identityis I'm a child of the most high
(21:41):
king and I've got eternitywaiting for me through jesus
christ, regardless of what Iexperience here.
So yeah, I.
That resonated a lot with me asa parent of an 11, nine and
seven.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, there's been a sermon or a series that I've
wanted to do for a while that,speaking to this case of this
son of his, that's just successafter success after success.
I think we speak a lot abouthow character is formed in
adversity, adverse situations,but I think the flip side of
that is also true, that truecharacter comes out in success,
(22:19):
and there's tons of biblicalstories of guys that succeeded
and fell, and so I think that'swhat probably that dad is
feeling is that success isshowing his son's character and
he's seeing that it's not allit's cracked up to be, and so
he's praying prayers.
(22:39):
I don't know that I would praythe same type of prayers in that
respect.
But one thing that stuck withme on I had a talk to the
Harvard neurologist, super smart, who's also a discipleship
expert, and she said that for usto continue to function, not
just in our learning years, butas individuals, as humans, our
brains, that we ought to befailing about 15% of the time if
(23:05):
we're forming ourselves in theright direction, forming
ourselves in the right direction, and I believe that we are
trying to set up worlds,especially for our kids saying
this, we, collectively there maybe individuals that don't do
this, but collectively we'retrying to set up a world where
our kids and no one fails, andthat's actually not healthy.
(23:26):
And so the sentiment and heartbehind I think what that guy's
praying is really good.
But there's a deeper issue thatwe're trying to like not any
sort of failure or failure, anysort of suffering or any sort of
silence we might perceive fromGod.
We're starting to lose ourminds in these situations
(23:46):
because we're not trainingourselves that this is actually
can be formative in a good wayand that it actually can be
helpful.
And when we only avoid allthese things, it's leading to
some difficult things.
So you said 15% failure.
Which is kind of cool.
If you think about like eventhe Sabbath, that's 15% of the
week.
I find a correlation there oflike one-se our days is like
(24:13):
it's not a day to produce and todo well, it's just a day to
rest and a day to, whereas Ithink our brains and our minds
are just so productive andalways like, but like no, let's
15% of the time.
Let's let's be challenged inour life and let's do things
that that we're not always goingto succeed and we'll put us us
on the brink of we may notactually do this or not, and
(24:33):
that's okay.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, so what if my percent is a lot higher?
Is that then I'm like reallybeing great?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Maybe, I don't know, all right, yeah, I think, if
you're always going for superhard things, yeah, oh okay.
If it's like I'm failingbecause I'm never studying for
the test or, you know, because Ididn't put the work in, then
maybe not so and then I likethat.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Uh, I mentioned a couple of books.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah You're, you're just throwing out books.
I felt really good about thatFor a guy that loves to read.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And then you had to humble brag, even better than me
, and mention a Harvard.
What?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
A neurologist a brain , brain scientist oh, I always
have to outdo me, jesseCruikshank.
She wrote Ordinary.
Discipleship if you're justlooking to buy a whole bunch of
books.
No, I don't purchase books.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I listen Well there you go, you listen to books.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, it's tough for me to see all those because the
words just never stop.
You like turn the next page,more words.
They just never stop.
What if you?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
read six out of seven pages and you fail hey well,
I'm going to give you a plug,peter.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So for people who like to listen, you did a whole
podcast series on, first, thebroccoli right.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Right, yes.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And that is something that our listeners can go back
and find on the, on the, where,where this podcast is listed,
wherever you're finding it onthe app, on the website,
whatever you can go back andfind it, it's a great series.
It's a really great series.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
And Dr Tim Reilly.
He did finish his revision ofFirst the Broccoli, then the Ice
Cream, so you can find thatbook and get it for yourself.
Great parenting advice, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, Just this week, on social media I follow author
John Acuff I don't know ifyou're familiar with him and he
was having a conversation withhis neighbor that he posted
about, where his neighbor wastelling him something like our
kids his neighbor is mid-50smaybe and so they have grown
children that are buying a houseand he's like, oh, the economy
(26:24):
is so bad they can't even afforda house in our neighborhood.
In our neighborhood.
Well, of course, they can't, at25 or 30, afford a house.
That you're 55 age, becausethat's the way it's supposed to
be.
You're supposed to get astarter house and work your way
(26:46):
up.
You're supposed to go throughthose challenges and learn to
deal with less at those points.
And just what you were speakingabout made me think of that
that we that's the way thatlives are set up for
achievements and growth.
You know, and how we play intothat.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I like that John Acuff has has been able to grow
himself into being called anauthor.
Yeah, cause for years he wasjust a comedian.
Yeah, he was a funny dude.
Oh, and he's so funny and I sayjust just, which is my favorite
type of people are comedians.
But now he's like academic,he's an author.
Yeah, well done, dude, and he'swritten a number of great books
and he's a great author too.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, he's a great speaker still though.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Oh fabulous, which is really impressive because I
find a lot of the funniestpeople they used to be, and
someone said this.
So over the last year I lostsome weight.
And there's this one guy atchurch who whenever he sees me,
he's like he always says you'restill funny, Because he was like
(27:44):
I'm nervous for you, man,You're losing weight.
Skinnier people get less funny.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So he's always like you're still funny.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
A couple stereotypes and John Acuff is very funny.
He's very skinny.
Yeah, he's pretty skinny, so Idon't think that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It's possible to be skinny and funny.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Apparently.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, you may have to limit the chocolate milkshakes,
but yeah, no One until May 30th.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
We're at the same location that sells chocolate
milkshakes, just one.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
The first person gets it and that's it.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I'm not buying a whole family of them.
Now you're changing it.
If I see one person on the 22ndand another person on the 28th
there's a good chance you mightget one.
I'm not buying your wholefamily milkshakes though.
Okay, One per family.
So go to the milkshake shopalone.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yes, till May 30th 2025.
Okay, so several of the Biblereferences that Pastor Greg gave
in this are from the book ofHabakkuk.
This is the one Bible book namethat I am always scared to say
out loud because, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Habakkuk, habakkuk.
I always have to stop and thinkam I saying it?
Just say it with confidence.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
No, matter what.
That's what I do with biblicalnames when I'm reading out loud.
I just go for it.
But this is not a book I spendmuch time in.
It's not a long book.
To start with, what do you guysknow?
What's your experience withwhat speaks to you from the book
of Habakkuk?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't call myself an expert in Habakkuk,
but it's, yeah, obviously minorprophet back part of the Old
Testament, and I think what'sunique about Habakkuk he is a
prophet, and prophets, of course, are intermediaries between God
and the people, and a lot oftimes what you see in scripture
from the prophets is a prophetspeaks to the people, kind of
(29:37):
from God, whereas Habakkuk's alittle like mostly opposite of
that, where he's actuallyspeaking on behalf of the people
to God and he's telling God, we, the people, we're having a
really hard time down here andhow much longer do we have to
wait?
(29:58):
And where are you and will youjust tell me anything Like he's
a prophet that, honestly, ishaving a hard time hearing from
God.
Think about, if that's your job,like you know, you're supposed
to hear from God and tell thepeople and he's like only got
half the line, if you will,where he's caring for the people
and giving it to God.
And and it's just a challengingbook too, because what God
(30:20):
tells Habakkuk is essentiallyyou know, I'm going to use your
enemy, the Babylonians, againstyou because you've lost your way
and at the end of the day, thepeople that are your enemies are
(30:40):
going to overtake you, and soit's a super hard message that
he finally does here when hedoes, and so super challenging.
And of course there's hope inthe book.
There's prophecy, foretellingof good times to come, but it's
generations.
And so a really challengingbook, but one that speaks to and
(31:05):
gives words for the people thatthey can approach God when
they're feeling like they'resilent.
They can cry out to God and sayGod, where are you?
And he does speak, he doeslisten, he does hear.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So what would you say to the people who would point
to Habakkuk and say that, like,this is what's happening to our
nation, we're in a back-upsituation and our ungodliness
will cause China to take ourinformation or whatever it is?
(31:38):
Because I do hear some of thattype of conversation and like
does that sound right?
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
In hey Bacock, you're talking about that book yeah,
habakkuk.
I don't think it correlates.
Exactly the same, I thinkthere's principles we can take.
I like what Matt Chandler saidabout revelation that I think is
true of a lot of these booksthat it cannot mean for us what
it did not mean for them, and soit is a contextual thing that
he's speaking to the Israelitesand the Babylonians.
He's not speaking to Americansand Chinese.
(32:10):
So that would be my firstanswer, is it cannot mean to
them what it didn't.
It cannot mean for us what itdid not mean to them, and but I
do think the principles there oflike, god will get his glory,
and he'll do it through his son,his son, and there are times,
yes, that when we, his children,have gone astray.
God is big enough, sovereignenough and control enough that
(32:38):
he can use the things of thisworld that don't even beat for
him to bring us back to where weneed to be.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
So you're saying, like the winner of the Kentucky
Derby, we need to trust in God'ssovereignty.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yes, the name yeah, how are you going to?
It's a great name for a horse.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Sovereignty, yes, could trust in God's sovereignty
and right, yeah, and that's whyI love about Habakkuk is it's
like, oh, so hard and God seeseverything, and and and God's
like, yeah, I'll take care of itby sending the Babylonians to
take over.
It's going to be terrible andlike what a oh my goodness.
(33:12):
But God's people have to trustregardless, and I think that in
the silence can we trustregardless?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Which was a great connection for this message.
Okay, so, as we wrap up today,what are your final thoughts on
this message?
Where's God Are?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
you listening?
Yeah, I guess I would say thatI've not really had a lot of
seasons of that doubt of is Godlistening, but I remember
talking to a friend who's it was, um, the spring of 2013.
(34:00):
And, uh, one of my greatestmentors in Green Bay, wisconsin,
peter Falk Dr Peter Falk, notthe actor doctor Um, he had six
kids and my best friend marriedone of his daughters and, uh,
but then he had one of theirdaughters was Carrie, and Carrie
was fabulous, super smart.
(34:20):
Um, we all had crushes onCarrie Falk and and um, I
remember finding out that shewas in medical school and she
took a scan of her of herself toteach the younger medical
students and found out in thatthat she was riddled with cancer
, stage four.
Nothing was going to work.
Three months later she passedand, uh, unbelievably rough, um,
(34:45):
and the Falks are one of themost faithful families I've ever
been around incredible family.
And I remember talking to Matt,who was a younger sibling that I
spent a lot of time with monthsafterwards and just saying how
are you doing?
And he said I haven't opened myBible in months and so, even
(35:07):
though I haven't experienced it,to walk by people who are and
to be able to be with them andsit with them in that silence
and pray for them, and not beyou rah-rah.
But God is faithful, he isthere, it's okay and he can take
this, even in your pain.
(35:29):
So, yeah, for us to know that,even if you're not experiencing
it, people around you are, andhow can you love them during
those times?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, I think for me final takeaways or thoughts
would be like I personally needto get better at this and and
stop saying God is silent whenhis word is right there,
speaking, and probably take moreownership in, in listening to
God through my spiritualdisciplines.
Uh, would be kind of a learningpoint for me and also just to
(36:04):
trust, like I mean, if, if Ilook back in history and even in
my own life, god shows up, notwhen I want him to, but he shows
up every time and his will willbe done and it's he's got good.
He's got good things for me,good things planned, good good.
He can work it all out, and Ijust need to remind myself of
(36:26):
that as much as possible, and sodo the people that are going
through hard times right now.
So the opportunity silence isan opportunity, I think, to
either abandon or to press in,and if you have the courage and
a little bit ounce of strengthleft to press in, do that.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
That trust is really my takeaway that I refocused on.
So Pastor Greg referencedProverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in
the Lord with all your heart andhe will make your path straight
.
And it's trust in the Lord withall, not part, not now and then
.
Trust in the Lord with all yourheart.
And my patience is much longernow, at the age I'm at, than it
(37:12):
was when I was younger.
So when I'm in those valleys orthose times of silence, I feel
like I am more willing to wait,but it's still continuing to
trust him in those, and that wasreally what spoke to me about
this week trusting him in thosesilent times.
Well, thank you guys, so muchfor being here today, and until
next week.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, do you have a sign off for these?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, I do.
Do you want to do it?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, let's try to do it at the same time.
I'll just watch your lips.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I don't Okay.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Okay, thank you for being here today, and until next
week, let's keep.
Hello and welcome to Beyond Sunday, the podcast where
we dive into the message seriesof King of Kings Church and
figure out what we're takingbeyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I'mso happy to be here with you
today, and I have some amazingguests once again.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Go ahead guys, are the guests coming in or I'm not
sure?
Yeah, yeah, I'm looking around.
Who are guests coming in or I'mnot sure?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yeah, yeah, I'm looking around.
Who are these guests?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
They'll be here shortly.
You're just the filler.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Great, there you go.
I love that.
Well, I'm the non-amazing ZachZender, multi-site director here
at King of Kings, happy to behere.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, and I actually have incredible self-confidence.
Peter Bay Northwest CampusDirector.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So thank you for being here this week.
This week is National TeacherAppreciation.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I don't know why I thought you were going to say
Tetanus.
I was like, really NationalTetanus Week.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Great, tell your Tetanus story.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'll have to look up when that is and I'll just have
you on that week.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
So teacher appreciation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Teacher appreciation.
So my question is what is yourmost memorable teacher from
growing up Like?
What teacher really made animpact with you?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, high school for me and I had her multiple years
.
She was my Latin teacher atMillard North and we called her
Magistra, which is, I suppose,teacher in Latin, and she just
was a great teacher.
We had so much fun in herclasses and I feel like hardly
anybody like takes Latin tobegin with and it was like this
(01:39):
hidden gem that only the dozenor 15 of us got to experience,
because Magistra was amazing.
She always laughed and just hada great time with us and made
it fun to learn.
And I have found that to betrue with languages, especially
like theological languages as aminor in college, is your
teacher, especially in languages, makes such a difference.
(02:01):
If they're fun, if they're good, if you get a foundation from
the beginning, that language isso much easier.
Difference If they're fun, ifthey're good, if you get a
foundation from the beginning,that language is so much easier,
whereas if they're boring, notgood, awful, it's like man, you
really have to struggle withthat language.
So anyway, I'm giving it up forMagistra, if you're listening.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
All right.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, I have had so many amazing teachers.
I'm going to focus today on MrStock.
Mike Stock he was one of themost stoic people of all time
and so, of course, my goal wasto get him to crack, and he was
also our baseball coach.
A couple of Mike Stock storieshe was my junior high basketball
(02:42):
coach and I wore headbands inhigh school and he said he's not
going to disallow me to, but hesaid I just want you to know
that headbands make you lookshort, slow and stupid.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And so at the awards banquet, yes, wow.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
And so at the awards banquet I went up and put a
headband on during the awardsbanquet and then I was injured.
I had like blown out a shoulderand and he made me.
He said, he said, uh, the nextday in p he's like I don't care
what you're wearing, you can run.
So I had to run the whole nextday in p and then uh, um, so
(03:21):
another to wrap up my, my stockstories, cause I had several of
those types of stories where Ihad antagonized him and he'd get
back at me.
And then one day I was going toa girls varsity basketball game
and he's working behind theticket booth and I say, geez, mr
Stock, you look tired.
What's going on?
He said, well, there's this newdinosaur documentary on
(03:42):
national geographic.
I've been staying up late towatch it each night.
And I said, really, and he goes, peter, I really like dinosaurs
.
And it was just the mostgratifying moment of my life,
wow, to hear Mr Stock, one ofthe most feared teachers, just
open up about dinosaurs.
So here's to you, mr Stock,keep it going.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
My favorite teacher is all the way back from
elementary school.
When you have this certain glow, you see all your teachers in
at that point.
And in first grade I had MrsMeyer, cece Meyer and she was
just the best teacher ever.
We would get rewards for thingsin class and she would always
pick me to do extra duties and Iwas totally a teacher's pet,
(04:25):
you know, raised my hand foreverything and then at the end
of first grade, when I wasgetting very upset that I wasn't
going to have Mrs Meyer anymore, I found out she was moving to
second grade and I got to haveher again two years.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Come on, that's a boy meets world feeding situation.
You went up with them all theway throughout.
Yeah, every on.
That's a boy meets worldfeeding situation.
You went up with them all theway throughout.
Yeah, every year.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
No, this was just two years, but it was the best.
It was absolutely the best, mrsMeyer was the greatest.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I don't know what happened to her after then, cece
Meyer was his name.
That definitely sounds like agospel recording artist.
I grew up in Grand Island CeceMeyer.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Wow, thank you to all the teachers out there.
My goodness, yes, putting upwith kids.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Also, we're in the month of May and there's no
other month.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
that's challenging for school workers as it is,
it's got to be May, right?
Yes?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
It is so hard so teachers keep rocking.
Go get a chocolate shake and welove you.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
We do love you.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Are you paying for their chocolate shake or are you
making?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Just encouragement to have chocolate shakes.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh, there you go, great yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, no, I will not.
So if you find me, I'm stillnot going to yeah, it's just
advice.
If you find me at a place wherethey sell a chocolate shake
maybe yeah, how about that, thenwe can talk.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Okay.
Place where they sell achocolate shake, maybe.
Yeah, how about that?
That's okay.
Any beyond Sunday teacherlisteners, if you happen to be
at a milkshake shop with PeterBay, he will buy you a milkshake
.
Yep, the month of May only.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I was just going to say how long is this good for
Just the month of May?
I mean there are.
How many days are in May?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
31.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I'm going to go to May 30th, 31.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, I'm going to go to May 30th.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Wow, standard 30-day month, that extra day yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
There you go.
Okay, Well, thank you teachers.
Thank you teachers, we love you.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
That's a real giveaway there.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Okay, so now switching gears back to our
Sunday messages, and this lastSunday we were in week three of
our Where's God series and thisweek we really kind of focused
on are you listening, god?
And Pastor Greg took us throughsome different things about how
God is always listening or howwe struggle when we feel like
(06:43):
there's silence.
So what are you guys takingbeyond Sunday?
What really spoke to you thisweek?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, I mean, for me it's actually a struggle that
one of the last things in hismessage was about like living it
as if it's already happened,and that's probably what's gone
with me the most.
He said instead of praying if,pray when, and that by far stood
(07:14):
out to me the most out ofanything in the message and I'm
kind of struggling with it, tobe honest.
To be like Noah if I'm sick,like yes, ultimately I'm going
to be healed forever in eternity, but to pray when I'm healed,
and referring to here on earth,like that feels inauthentic to
me.
Um and so like, honestly I'm,I'm struggling with that and uh,
(07:37):
and praying through that andlike, do I need?
Are my prayers faithless?
And I don't think they are.
But yeah, I think that was agood thing.
That hit me in a way that Iwasn't expecting.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I think for me always good to be reminded of
faith growing in valleys, andthat's what silence often feels
like.
Is a valley not the mountaintop?
Mountaintops are awesome,they're amazing and praise God
for when we have mountaintopexperiences, but if everything's
(08:15):
always a mountaintop, my faithis going to be probably pretty
shallow, and so valleys feellike where silence is, and
that's where faith grows.
And that's not easy, it's not.
It's very complicated, it'schallenging, it's frustrating,
and yet at the end of the day itwill make a more mature faith
(08:38):
in me, which ultimately will bebetter.
But gosh, it's not fun to gothrough valleys.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
It's not fun to be on the top gosh.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It's not fun to go through valleys.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's fun to be on the top and it's not easy to be in
them and not know how long it'sfor.
I think, that's the part thatfrustrates me.
I can get through anything onceI see the light at the end of
the tunnel, you know, oh, we'reon our way up.
Okay, I'm in, I'm in.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I can see it.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But when you're in that period where you just don't
know, that's rough yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
But speaking about mountains, have you guys ever
climbed a mountain?
No, no, zach, I mean yes, yeah,you've probably climbed several
mountains.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
right Like with Peak Challenge, we've done some 14ers
in Colorado.
We got one coming up.
I'm doing it again in June thisyear, so legit.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Listen to you.
Knowing the lingo 14ers, I haveno clue what that means.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So it means you get to an elevation of 14,000 feet
or higher.
I think there's 58 of them inColorado, amazing.
Yeah, so I've done three.
My son Nathan's done five orsix.
That's impressive.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I saw failed on one of them Didn't get up to the top
, but go ahead when you, whenyou got to the top or to the
goal you're trying to make, wasthat feeling exhilarating for
you?
What was it?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It's fun to look out and just see the vast beautiful
creation.
It's cool to do that.
Put my arm around my son Nathan, to take a picture with a sign
of the elevation, maybe evenwith some others, for King of
Kings.
It's fun to exert physical selfand to push past what you feel
(10:16):
like you should have or couldhave gone and to feel
accomplishment.
Yeah, so that's fun for me.
I'm also such a like acompetitive guy that I don't
want to stay on the mountain toptoo long Cause I want to like
get back down fast, Cause I wantto time myself and I got my
watch going and my battery'srunning out and I want to get
you know through the whole thingso I can record all the
(10:36):
calories and get all the metricsand stats and all that stuff.
But that's just a weird quirkything for me.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So is a calorie not burned if your watch doesn't
send it.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It is, but I can't show it to you.
Got it, not that I would showanybody, but I might show
somebody I mean, I guess, thosemountaintop experiences?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I hear that phrase a lot.
I've only climbed one mountainit was Camelback, which is very
different than a 14er.
Still, it's a steep one, though, a steep one and we took the
like adventure tree.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I liked the hard one yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And I got to the top of that mountain and was just so
bummed about it Like I felt noachievement whatsoever.
I was like now I got to climbdown.
I looked, I saw golf courses inthe distance and was like I'd
rather be there.
Yeah be there.
So I yeah, I kind of I need adifferent phrase.
Mountaintop experience wasn'tgood for me.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
That's fair, yeah, so yeah, what would that be for
you?
That would be for somethingthat you feel like
accomplishment and just you know, in a lot of people in these
mountaintop experience they'lltalk about just seeing God's
beautiful, vast creation all inone kind of glimpse.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know, that's funny enough.
It's like I can see that attimes in good community, like at
church or VBS, is is one ofthose for me.
Um, I get to work with the LCMSyouth gathering and being in
worship with 20,000 people isincredible.
(12:08):
So yeah, I think those would bethe equivalent for me.
So yeah, so I can understand it, even though the mountaintop
doesn't always hit like otherpeople might.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'd like to say mine would be a beach experience,
that's how I visualize it,because I'm not a mountain
climber either, but stilllooking at God's beauty on the
beach, but, you know, enjoyingthe sun.
Without quite exerting as muchphysical energy Okay.
(12:43):
So one of the first questionsthat Pastor Greg kind of asked
was what do we do in the midstof silence, when we're
experiencing that silence fromGod, where maybe we've had a
prayer or we're having astruggle and we feel like he's
not answering us right then, orwe feel like we can't hear Him
(13:07):
right then, or we feel like wecan't hear him.
What is something that you guyshave experienced with that, or
what do you go to, or what'swhat spoke to you about that
question?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean honestly, I go to anxiousness and turns out
that's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Who knew?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So I'll go to hours of laying in my bed and trying
to figure it out on my own and,yeah, that rarely gets me
anywhere and, honestly, ifanything, when I finally fall
asleep and wake up in themorning, I feel just so much
better about the situation.
Normally, just because I'mreally anxious about something,
(13:44):
uh it, it takes me a while untilI go and talk to a professional
or get you know.
Maybe it's in a Sunday messageor or a podcast or something
that points me to something muchmore important than like.
It's usually God's word thatinvades my life, and then and
then I come out of it a littlebit because I'm reminded by
(14:05):
God's faithfulness rather thanfocusing on whatever my
anxiousness is.
So I'm not sure that I handlesilence terribly well.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, I mean your question is like how do you,
what do you do?
Like I mean, there's a good anda bad side to that.
I think, if I'm honest, the andsometimes I don't know which is
which like my, my naturalresponse, whether it's a flesh
or a spiritual, is to work hard,and so there are times when
that is inappropriate, in timeswhere that's very appropriate
(14:39):
but that's my naturalinclination is, when God is
silent, I will work harder, Iwill do more, and and there's
times where that's healthy andthere's times where that's not,
and I don't always know when itis it's really challenging, like
, especially for me, my innerdialogue can go gosh.
(14:59):
I feel like I'm doing a lot ofthings right and yet the results
, or the place I'm at, or thething that I'm waiting like it
just hasn't materialized, andand that can actually be
unhealthy.
That actually mostly leads toan unhealthy place of God.
(15:21):
Where are you, god?
You've abandoned me, god, I'mdoing all these things, quote
for you and so show up likewhere the heck are you?
And that's really challengingwhen you've there's times when
you hit valleys because you'vedone a dumb thing and you should
be in a valley.
There's times when you're in avalley and someone else has done
a dumb thing and that reallystinks, that you're in the
(15:43):
valley because of them.
And then there's times you'rein a valley not because you've
done anything wrong, but justbecause you're in a valley wrong
, but just because you're in avalley.
And that's the one I strugglewith I think, the most, because
if I know I screwed up or thisperson screwed up so I'm down
here, I get that.
I still have to wrestle withthat.
But if I feel like again myinner dialogue, saying I'm doing
so many things right and I'mstill in a valley, then I get
(16:05):
frustrated and angry with God ofwhat's going on here and I get
impatient and I work, work hard,try to work out, work my way
out of it myself.
So again, most of our answersare not good things.
I mean, there's days whenthere's there's good times,
obviously in there as well, ofif I'm in a valley and God, I
(16:28):
feel like God is silent.
Well, I know God speaks to methrough his word, the Bible, and
so I can actually listen to himat any time.
So God's actually never, reallyalways, silent.
He's always speaking.
It's just am I ready to listen?
And so good times I will gointo the word.
I love to listen to worship.
It gets my mind, my creativity,my vision, my focus.
(16:50):
So I mean those are some of thebetter pieces.
If I'm in a valley, that I'lldo, but it's yeah, it's a
challenge.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I really like what you said about those
valleys where it's not somethingyou did and not something
someone else did, it's just aresult of our broken human world
and you feel very stuck theresometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, and sometimes not even a result of our broken
human world.
Sometimes it's God's plan.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And sometimes you're doing all the things right and
you're still there Like that'sthe.
Greg didn't mention this, butthat's the part about the Joseph
story that I find fascinatingin the Old Testament Is if you
read through Genesis like, justdo it and most people do in
their Bible in a year plan, likeGenesis is the most read book
(17:35):
of the Bible, I bet.
But if you really look at itlike, this is going to take it a
whole different direction.
But there is so many baddecisions in Genesis, so many
bad sexual decisions in Genesis.
The one guy that makes theright sexual decision Joseph,
abstaining from Potiphar's wifegets him thrown into prison and
I'm like that's not fair.
That's the one guy that 50chapters of horrible sexual
decisions.
The one guy that made a goodone is in prison and so like he
(17:58):
didn't do anything wrong, he'sdoing everything right and he's
still like stuck in a placewhere he doesn't deserve to be.
Now we know the end story andwhere that worked out in a
beautiful way and I think thatwill work out for all of us that
are in valleys in a beautifulway.
But it's like gosh, why am I?
Sometimes we're there becauseit's God's plan and that's
really hard to wrestle with.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So I feel like that really ties into the story that
Greg was talking about with theparent who had a kid who was
just killing it at everythingand he felt like he was trying
to change his prayer to pray foralmost some setbacks so that
his child would learn growth andlearn how to turn to God.
(18:38):
That was something that I, likeyou, said you're kind of
chewing on the don't pray ifpray, when I'm really chewing on
that, Like you don't want topray.
Bad things, quote unquote badthings for your child, but how
do you pray for those growthopportunities?
What resonated with you guysabout that?
You're both parents.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah yeah, there's a really popular book.
My favorite book of 2024 wasAnxious Generation, jonathan
Haidt, h-a-i-d-t, and he talksabout the difference between
defend mode and discover mode.
Defend mode is like you takecare of your kids' problems.
When they struggle, you helpthem finish their work, you
defend and maybe even bulldozewith their teachers or whatever
(19:23):
you need to do.
If a coach sits them out andyou don't think it's fair, you
may even go talk to that coach.
That's defend mode.
And what that produces are kidsthat always feel like an adult
needs to take care of theirchallenges, even as they're in
college and older, and then, asolder, the government or my job
or my employer or whatever needsto take care of my challenges,
(19:45):
whereas discover mode is no.
Let your kid fail and set themup for opportunities where they
can succeed or fail on their own.
Uh, it looks like.
Let them cook their own mealevery once in a while, allow
them to experience pain.
Um, love them, but don't jumpin and save the day type thing.
(20:08):
Jump in and save the day typething.
And that was really.
That was really good for me tolearn about.
And discovery mode, inevitably,is going to lead to humans who
are more resilient and who sayit's okay, like I've failed a
bunch of times and I'm stillokay.
And so I get that prayer oflike I want my kid to experience
(20:35):
failure.
When I was a teacher, I used toalways tell the kids they'd be
like why do we have to?
I taught music and religion, somy classes were mostly loved
because they're easy, easygrades.
And they'd be like but we don'tlike science and math.
Like we don't, we're nevergoing to use this and I'm like
some of that.
You won't.
But the purpose of school isyou're learning how to learn.
(20:58):
You're learning how to have anobstacle and fail or succeed and
realize I didn't die.
So the next one I face I cantry again, and that's really a
big goal for me.
Another great book by a childpsychologist right in our midst,
(21:18):
dr Tim Riley, is First theBroccoli, then the Ice Cream,
and he talks about thatproviding a safe haven for your
kids while also them allowingthem opportunities to fail, so
that they can grow up knowingthat, like, regardless of my
success or not, my identity isnot in that.
And as a christian, my identityis I'm a child of the most high
(21:41):
king and I've got eternitywaiting for me through jesus
christ, regardless of what Iexperience here.
So yeah, I.
That resonated a lot with me asa parent of an 11, nine and
seven.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, there's been a sermon or a series that I've
wanted to do for a while that,speaking to this case of this
son of his, that's just successafter success after success.
I think we speak a lot abouthow character is formed in
adversity, adverse situations,but I think the flip side of
that is also true, that truecharacter comes out in success,
(22:19):
and there's tons of biblicalstories of guys that succeeded
and fell, and so I think that'swhat probably that dad is
feeling is that success isshowing his son's character and
he's seeing that it's not allit's cracked up to be, and so
he's praying prayers.
(22:39):
I don't know that I would praythe same type of prayers in that
respect.
But one thing that stuck withme on I had a talk to the
Harvard neurologist, super smart, who's also a discipleship
expert, and she said that for usto continue to function, not
just in our learning years, butas individuals, as humans, our
brains, that we ought to befailing about 15% of the time if
(23:05):
we're forming ourselves in theright direction, forming
ourselves in the right direction, and I believe that we are
trying to set up worlds,especially for our kids saying
this, we, collectively there maybe individuals that don't do
this, but collectively we'retrying to set up a world where
our kids and no one fails, andthat's actually not healthy.
(23:26):
And so the sentiment and heartbehind I think what that guy's
praying is really good.
But there's a deeper issue thatwe're trying to like not any
sort of failure or failure, anysort of suffering or any sort of
silence we might perceive fromGod.
We're starting to lose ourminds in these situations
(23:46):
because we're not trainingourselves that this is actually
can be formative in a good wayand that it actually can be
helpful.
And when we only avoid allthese things, it's leading to
some difficult things.
So you said 15% failure.
Which is kind of cool.
If you think about like eventhe Sabbath, that's 15% of the
week.
I find a correlation there oflike one-se our days is like
(24:13):
it's not a day to produce and todo well, it's just a day to
rest and a day to, whereas Ithink our brains and our minds
are just so productive andalways like, but like no, let's
15% of the time.
Let's let's be challenged inour life and let's do things
that that we're not always goingto succeed and we'll put us us
on the brink of we may notactually do this or not, and
(24:33):
that's okay.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, so what if my percent is a lot higher?
Is that then I'm like reallybeing great?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Maybe, I don't know, all right, yeah, I think, if
you're always going for superhard things, yeah, oh okay.
If it's like I'm failingbecause I'm never studying for
the test or, you know, because Ididn't put the work in, then
maybe not so and then I likethat.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Uh, I mentioned a couple of books.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah You're, you're just throwing out books.
I felt really good about thatFor a guy that loves to read.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And then you had to humble brag, even better than me
, and mention a Harvard.
What?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
A neurologist a brain , brain scientist oh, I always
have to outdo me, jesseCruikshank.
She wrote Ordinary.
Discipleship if you're justlooking to buy a whole bunch of
books.
No, I don't purchase books.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I listen Well there you go, you listen to books.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, it's tough for me to see all those because the
words just never stop.
You like turn the next page,more words.
They just never stop.
What if you?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
read six out of seven pages and you fail hey well,
I'm going to give you a plug,peter.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So for people who like to listen, you did a whole
podcast series on, first, thebroccoli right.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Right, yes.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And that is something that our listeners can go back
and find on the, on the, where,where this podcast is listed,
wherever you're finding it onthe app, on the website,
whatever you can go back andfind it, it's a great series.
It's a really great series.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
And Dr Tim Reilly.
He did finish his revision ofFirst the Broccoli, then the Ice
Cream, so you can find thatbook and get it for yourself.
Great parenting advice, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, Just this week, on social media I follow author
John Acuff I don't know ifyou're familiar with him and he
was having a conversation withhis neighbor that he posted
about, where his neighbor wastelling him something like our
kids his neighbor is mid-50smaybe and so they have grown
children that are buying a houseand he's like, oh, the economy
(26:24):
is so bad they can't even afforda house in our neighborhood.
In our neighborhood.
Well, of course, they can't, at25 or 30, afford a house.
That you're 55 age, becausethat's the way it's supposed to
be.
You're supposed to get astarter house and work your way
(26:46):
up.
You're supposed to go throughthose challenges and learn to
deal with less at those points.
And just what you were speakingabout made me think of that
that we that's the way thatlives are set up for
achievements and growth.
You know, and how we play intothat.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I like that John Acuff has has been able to grow
himself into being called anauthor.
Yeah, cause for years he wasjust a comedian.
Yeah, he was a funny dude.
Oh, and he's so funny and I sayjust just, which is my favorite
type of people are comedians.
But now he's like academic,he's an author.
Yeah, well done, dude, and he'swritten a number of great books
and he's a great author too.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, he's a great speaker still though.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Oh fabulous, which is really impressive because I
find a lot of the funniestpeople they used to be, and
someone said this.
So over the last year I lostsome weight.
And there's this one guy atchurch who whenever he sees me,
he's like he always says you'restill funny, Because he was like
(27:44):
I'm nervous for you, man,You're losing weight.
Skinnier people get less funny.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So he's always like you're still funny.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
A couple stereotypes and John Acuff is very funny.
He's very skinny.
Yeah, he's pretty skinny, so Idon't think that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It's possible to be skinny and funny.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Apparently.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, you may have to limit the chocolate milkshakes,
but yeah, no One until May 30th.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
We're at the same location that sells chocolate
milkshakes, just one.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
The first person gets it and that's it.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I'm not buying a whole family of them.
Now you're changing it.
If I see one person on the 22ndand another person on the 28th
there's a good chance you mightget one.
I'm not buying your wholefamily milkshakes though.
Okay, One per family.
So go to the milkshake shopalone.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yes, till May 30th 2025.
Okay, so several of the Biblereferences that Pastor Greg gave
in this are from the book ofHabakkuk.
This is the one Bible book namethat I am always scared to say
out loud because, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Habakkuk, habakkuk.
I always have to stop and thinkam I saying it?
Just say it with confidence.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
No, matter what.
That's what I do with biblicalnames when I'm reading out loud.
I just go for it.
But this is not a book I spendmuch time in.
It's not a long book.
To start with, what do you guysknow?
What's your experience withwhat speaks to you from the book
of Habakkuk?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't call myself an expert in Habakkuk,
but it's, yeah, obviously minorprophet back part of the Old
Testament, and I think what'sunique about Habakkuk he is a
prophet, and prophets, of course, are intermediaries between God
and the people, and a lot oftimes what you see in scripture
from the prophets is a prophetspeaks to the people, kind of
(29:37):
from God, whereas Habakkuk's alittle like mostly opposite of
that, where he's actuallyspeaking on behalf of the people
to God and he's telling God, we, the people, we're having a
really hard time down here andhow much longer do we have to
wait?
(29:58):
And where are you and will youjust tell me anything Like he's
a prophet that, honestly, ishaving a hard time hearing from
God.
Think about, if that's your job,like you know, you're supposed
to hear from God and tell thepeople and he's like only got
half the line, if you will,where he's caring for the people
and giving it to God.
And and it's just a challengingbook too, because what God
(30:20):
tells Habakkuk is essentiallyyou know, I'm going to use your
enemy, the Babylonians, againstyou because you've lost your way
and at the end of the day, thepeople that are your enemies are
(30:40):
going to overtake you, and soit's a super hard message that
he finally does here when hedoes, and so super challenging.
And of course there's hope inthe book.
There's prophecy, foretellingof good times to come, but it's
generations.
And so a really challengingbook, but one that speaks to and
(31:05):
gives words for the people thatthey can approach God when
they're feeling like they'resilent.
They can cry out to God and sayGod, where are you?
And he does speak, he doeslisten, he does hear.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So what would you say to the people who would point
to Habakkuk and say that, like,this is what's happening to our
nation, we're in a back-upsituation and our ungodliness
will cause China to take ourinformation or whatever it is?
(31:38):
Because I do hear some of thattype of conversation and like
does that sound right?
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
In hey Bacock, you're talking about that book yeah,
habakkuk.
I don't think it correlates.
Exactly the same, I thinkthere's principles we can take.
I like what Matt Chandler saidabout revelation that I think is
true of a lot of these booksthat it cannot mean for us what
it did not mean for them, and soit is a contextual thing that
he's speaking to the Israelitesand the Babylonians.
He's not speaking to Americansand Chinese.
(32:10):
So that would be my firstanswer, is it cannot mean to
them what it didn't.
It cannot mean for us what itdid not mean to them, and but I
do think the principles there oflike, god will get his glory,
and he'll do it through his son,his son, and there are times,
yes, that when we, his children,have gone astray.
God is big enough, sovereignenough and control enough that
(32:38):
he can use the things of thisworld that don't even beat for
him to bring us back to where weneed to be.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
So you're saying, like the winner of the Kentucky
Derby, we need to trust in God'ssovereignty.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yes, the name yeah, how are you going to?
It's a great name for a horse.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Sovereignty, yes, could trust in God's sovereignty
and right, yeah, and that's whyI love about Habakkuk is it's
like, oh, so hard and God seeseverything, and and and God's
like, yeah, I'll take care of itby sending the Babylonians to
take over.
It's going to be terrible andlike what a oh my goodness.
(33:12):
But God's people have to trustregardless, and I think that in
the silence can we trustregardless?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Which was a great connection for this message.
Okay, so, as we wrap up today,what are your final thoughts on
this message?
Where's God Are?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
you listening?
Yeah, I guess I would say thatI've not really had a lot of
seasons of that doubt of is Godlistening, but I remember
talking to a friend who's it was, um, the spring of 2013.
(34:00):
And, uh, one of my greatestmentors in Green Bay, wisconsin,
peter Falk Dr Peter Falk, notthe actor doctor Um, he had six
kids and my best friend marriedone of his daughters and, uh,
but then he had one of theirdaughters was Carrie, and Carrie
was fabulous, super smart.
(34:20):
Um, we all had crushes onCarrie Falk and and um, I
remember finding out that shewas in medical school and she
took a scan of her of herself toteach the younger medical
students and found out in thatthat she was riddled with cancer
, stage four.
Nothing was going to work.
Three months later she passedand, uh, unbelievably rough, um,
(34:45):
and the Falks are one of themost faithful families I've ever
been around incredible family.
And I remember talking to Matt,who was a younger sibling that I
spent a lot of time with monthsafterwards and just saying how
are you doing?
And he said I haven't opened myBible in months and so, even
(35:07):
though I haven't experienced it,to walk by people who are and
to be able to be with them andsit with them in that silence
and pray for them, and not beyou rah-rah.
But God is faithful, he isthere, it's okay and he can take
this, even in your pain.
(35:29):
So, yeah, for us to know that,even if you're not experiencing
it, people around you are, andhow can you love them during
those times?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, I think for me final takeaways or thoughts
would be like I personally needto get better at this and and
stop saying God is silent whenhis word is right there,
speaking, and probably take moreownership in, in listening to
God through my spiritualdisciplines.
Uh, would be kind of a learningpoint for me and also just to
(36:04):
trust, like I mean, if, if Ilook back in history and even in
my own life, god shows up, notwhen I want him to, but he shows
up every time and his will willbe done and it's he's got good.
He's got good things for me,good things planned, good good.
He can work it all out, and Ijust need to remind myself of
(36:26):
that as much as possible, and sodo the people that are going
through hard times right now.
So the opportunity silence isan opportunity, I think, to
either abandon or to press in,and if you have the courage and
a little bit ounce of strengthleft to press in, do that.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
That trust is really my takeaway that I refocused on.
So Pastor Greg referencedProverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in
the Lord with all your heart andhe will make your path straight
.
And it's trust in the Lord withall, not part, not now and then
.
Trust in the Lord with all yourheart.
And my patience is much longernow, at the age I'm at, than it
(37:12):
was when I was younger.
So when I'm in those valleys orthose times of silence, I feel
like I am more willing to wait,but it's still continuing to
trust him in those, and that wasreally what spoke to me about
this week trusting him in thosesilent times.
Well, thank you guys, so muchfor being here today, and until
next week.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, do you have a sign off for these?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, I do.
Do you want to do it?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, let's try to do it at the same time.
I'll just watch your lips.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I don't Okay.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Okay, thank you for being here today, and until next
week, let's keep.
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