May 14, 2025 • 29 mins
In this Beyond Sunday episode, Dina is joined by Julie and Kate to wrestle with the question, “Where is God in injustice?” Through personal stories, honest reflections, and a powerful look at Psalm 73, they explore how trusting God’s perspective, leaning into community, and inviting Jesus into our pain can lead to deeper faith—even when answers are hard to find.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Beyond Sunday, the podcast where
we dive into the King of Kingsmessage series each week and see
what we're taking Beyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I amblessed with some wonderful
companionship today.
Go ahead and introduce yourself, ladies.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi, I'm Julie Easley.
I'm the executive director hereat King of Kings.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And I'm Kate Solberg and I'm the associate campus
director at our Northwest campus.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome.
You know, this week we had abig holiday it was Mother's Day.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It was.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, and both of you are mothers and daughters, so
my start off question for youtoday is what is like your best
memory of a mothering experience?
It could be something that'sreally heartfelt, or it could be
something that always makes youlaugh, you know, and it can be
(00:53):
on the mother side or on thedaughter side, you know what's a
mothering experience that youthink of fondly.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So I have a picture that I share sometimes on
Facebook of me and my mom.
I was the oldest of three girlsand my mom was, just in my mind
, almost the idealized mother,just so patient and loving, and
there's a picture of us.
Now this is going to reallydate me right, because this is
so old.
But for Christmas one year Igot a Marie Osmond you know
(01:25):
those styling heads where youcould put the makeup on the doll
and do her hair Picture of mymom just sitting with me as I
was, you know, kind of puttingthe makeup on Marie and she just
would get down on the floor andjust spend time.
You know that was.
She was such a patient givingis such a patient, is such a
patient giving person.
(01:45):
And just thinking about that,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Now that my kids are older, I kind of miss.
When they made something atschool that week and it was like
in a secret pocket in theirbackpack.
Their teacher was like, put itin your backpack, wait till
Sunday, and then you'd see themcoming down the stairs with
something hidden in their hand,so sweet, homemade and painted,
(02:11):
and you know just precious, Iknow.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, just love it.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
My best memories of my mom, or of me and my kids,
are all like making fun of eachother.
I have such a heart for a senseof humor, like and being able
to laugh at yourself, and my momjust used to make up phrases
Like I don't know, she, she umscared my brothers in the bushes
(02:37):
one night when they wereplaying outside with their
friends when they were likeearly teenagers and they started
calling her ninja mom, and soshe was ninja mom forever.
So I think of that and that'sfunny.
Or this one time she was veryfrustrated with something that
she was talking about and shewas like that's just a load of
crap on a crap stick, and that'snow a phrase that my whole
(02:57):
family uses on the regular.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I love it no one else .
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Knows they look at us like we're nuts To me those are
just those fun memories.
Or knows they look at us likewe're nuts, but to me those are
just those fun memories.
Or recently my family went on atrip and my kids planned
everything.
I have children that are adults, are almost adults, and so I
was just kind of along for theride.
I never knew what was happening, but I was just so happy to be
on the trip and my two of mykids turned to me and said mom,
(03:21):
you're like the golden retrieverof travel, you're just along
for the for the ride, you'rehappy no matter what, you're
just along for the ride, and sothat was like a month ago and
since then they've called me agolden retriever multiple times
and some people may take offenseat that, but I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I think it's sweet and it fits with your blonde
hair too.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Golden retrievers are like the best dogs ever.
Definitely a compliment, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, that's cute.
Well, transitioning from, youknow, some fond memories to,
sometimes even in motherhood,where we may wonder why are
these things happening.
And so our message is week fourof our Where's God series, and
Pastor Greg this week talkedabout God, where is your justice
(04:07):
?
And the core of this was hey,god, do you see what's happening
here Like things that are fair,things that are unfair, and
what we see as God's response tothat.
And so what's your biggestthing that you're taking beyond
Sunday?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And so what's your biggest thing that you're taking
beyond Sunday?
Yeah, I just think awaypressing in and being honest
about what's challenging or whatyou don't understand.
I think about scripture all thelike.
I'm going through the Psalmsright now in my personal
devotions and so much of it iscomplaining to God or saying
(05:02):
like where are you and whyaren't you answering?
And please come rescue me rightnow.
And I just love beingchallenged to engage God on that
level.
When things are tough, not pullaway, but to press in.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I thought that was great too.
I thought that was great too.
Just turning that question fromwhere are you to where am I?
And because I do think it'soften tempting to you know, turn
away from God or doubt Him orsay this is not working out like
(05:40):
I had hoped and thinking Godlet you down, yeah, so yeah,
that was good.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think this series and I guess I'm lucky enough to
sit in here each week where weget to dive in a little bit more
and sit with different peoplethat bring up and I just see
this reoccurring theme of duringstruggles and during waiting
and during feeling like we'rewanting justice, there's an
isolation that happens and theanswer always is community.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Turning towards God and turning towards others, and
I really liked the story thatGreg told about the girl who
went and sat by the isolatedgirl at the lunch table.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Oh so powerful.
Yes, girl at the lunch table,oh so powerful.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, that's where I just really felt like that's
whether we're the girl who isisolated and being open to
someone else bringing us in, orwe're the person who goes and
sits by that person, who isgoing through the struggle, like
I just.
But it's just this theme duringall of these, of where is God
and he's always with us, but wecan be with each other too that
(06:45):
really has been growing andspeaking to me.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, and just that kind of courageous step out like
in that story, someone beingcourageous to step out and take
the first move towards someone.
And I think when we're feelingisolated it's really easy to
think you know no one's callingme, no one's inviting me, no
one's asking me, no one'sinquiring of me, and just saying
you know what's within my powerto do, I can actually make a
reach out, trusting that God'sgoing to make a good connection
(07:15):
there or that someone else is.
I mean, like everybodystruggles in some way.
Who wouldn't want to be invitedto a conversation?
I think most people would beopen to that.
So instead of saying you know,I guess this just isn't in the
cards for me.
What's one thing you could dothis week to help yourself
become less isolated?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Definitely so.
Pastor Greg started with sayingsometimes we may feel like the
wicked is winning in our worldwhen we look around at our world
and this isn't fair.
How could this happen?
Can you share a time when maybeyou felt that way in your life,
or some experience that youwent through that you were like
okay, why is this happening?
(07:59):
This is not fair?
Yeah, not fair.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, well, you both know that I went through breast
cancer in 2016, 2017, and met alot of women going through that
same challenge and praise God, Iwent through chemotherapy and
then surgery and when they didthat surgery, they found no
(08:23):
evidence of cancer, which was amiracle blessing.
I don't know all of thosethings and but I've had friends
do that same procedure and havethe exact opposite, where their
cancer not only was still there,but it grew bigger.
And so I, one friend inparticular.
(08:45):
Her cancer, um, grew throughher treatment and she ended up
passing away and she was youngerthan me and her children were
younger than my children, andthat was so hard, yeah.
And you know something I prayedabout, um, still pray about,
you know.
I mean there's no way you couldmake sense of it, but just
(09:09):
yield, like Greg talked aboutyielding, just handing it to God
and saying your ways are higherthan mine.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I can't make sense of it.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Here's what I do know like how Psalm 73 starts Truly,
god is good to Israel, to thosewhose hearts are pure.
I know that's true and, likeGreg said, I think he was
talking to himself, remindinghim of what is true.
And that's what I have to do.
God is still good, he's stillon the throne, he has a plan.
I would maybe turn out thingsdifferently if I had the power
(09:42):
to take her cancer away.
I would have loved to do that,but I don't have the power.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, I saw a little clip by Tim Keller, who actually
passed away from cancer notthat long ago, and he was
talking about you know.
We may say to God you know Iwould have.
I thought life should haveturned out this way, but I don't
know.
If I knew what you know, right,then maybe I would have made
(10:13):
the same choice and just kind ofbeing open-handed and saying
like, truly I don't know, andthat sort of humility before the
Lord.
That's the whole basis ofyielding right.
It's just saying I'm submittingto your authority, god, in all
(10:34):
of life, and even though this ispainful and doesn't make sense,
I know you're good andtherefore I'm going to yield.
Boy, yielding is so tough,right.
Yielding sounds like a weakthing to do.
I'm just going to yield forthis car, right.
But when you think about, evenin traffic, when you have to
(10:56):
yield, you have to exercise adegree of authority over
yourself to allow someone elseto take precedence.
To allow someone else to takeprecedence.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So yeah, it almost made me uncomfortable in worship
.
When Pastor Greg was saying Idisagree, god, I would have done
it differently.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I was like oh are you allowed to say that I'm like.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I don't know about that, but I've said the same
thing.
I would have taken her canceraway, I would have healed her, I
would have given her 50 moreyears with her children.
Yes, so I am saying I wouldhave done it different than you
got.
Yep, so I'm glad he worded itthat way, because I think we all
(11:39):
do that.
Yes, yes, and we don't know, wedon't see the big picture, but
for some reason in our humanbrains we think we would make a
better decision knowing thistiny bit.
I don't know.
I know it's hard to put it allinto words.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And I think what's kind of helpful too, just to
remember is like we may be ableto say, oh, I can identify how
this was God's plan, like within10 minutes, or maybe it'll be
like five years, or it might benever.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Never, never.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I mean, there are certain things that are just so
tough.
It's like, yeah, I've gotnothing and it may have to wait.
And there's like You're notdoing it wrong if you don't come
up with a good answer, Right.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah Well, and I always think like there was an
initial point in creation whereGod had to decide am I going?
To give these humans free will.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Or am I just going to command them to obey me?
Right, and he either chose orhe knew all along along he
wanted to give us free will.
Yeah, he wanted his children tolove him From the heart, yes,
from the heart.
And so I think, once he decidedthat that put all kinds of
(12:59):
crazy things into place.
Right, because we choose thewrong thing most of the time,
unfortunately, so it's us whomesses things up.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, god isn't messing things up, no, I saw
once on social media aquote-unquote social media
summary of the Bible.
God said do the things.
The people said yep God, we gotit.
The people did not do thethings.
God said do the things thepeople said yep God, we got it.
The people did not do thethings God said.
Do the things the people saidyep God, we got it.
The people did not do thethings.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That's basically the Old Testament in a nutshell Over
and over again.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But I like that.
You said you were like oh, canwe ask that?
I don't remember now if it wasin week one or week two of the
series where Greg talked aboutGod can take it.
God can take our emotions.
That we can be upset that hedidn't make the choice that we
wanted.
And that's okay, he does, butwe are still yielding to him
that he does know better and hedoes know more than us.
(14:01):
I know for me my time when Ireally was like this is not fair
is I have two daughters, andone of them when she was in
middle school, which is thehardest time in life, I think.
Anyway, one day she had thisgreat group of friends and they
had been friends for years, andit was literally like the next
(14:22):
day she went to school and shewas the kid sitting alone at the
lunch table.
They like purposefully oustedher from the group and didn't
talk to her.
It's brutal.
And at 12 years old, like how doI even teach her to comprehend
that this too shall pass?
Or this is you know.
But in hindsight, after muchheartache and much like knowing
(14:48):
years later, those were not thefriends she was supposed to have
at that time in her life.
And I really think there wassome level of divine
intervention that God gave herdifferent friends that really
supported her through things shewas going through in a way that
I know those first group offriends couldn't have.
They didn't have the samebackground and the same
understanding that would haveset up the safe space for her
(15:13):
that she needed at that time,and it's always those things
that you look at in hindsightthat, oh yeah, that was God's
plan.
But, like you said, there aresome times where you never get
that aha moment yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Aha moment.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, so one of the things that Greg Pastor Greg
really talked about was you know, we ask where is God, but how
can we ask where am I?
And you made a brief mention ofthat, kate.
You know, how do we change ourposture, like he was giving an
example of oh, we say God isgood all the time and all the
the time God is good, but whereis he in this situation?
(15:51):
We ask that and God's bigenough to take that question,
but how do we change our postureor our view or our response in
that?
What are your thoughts on that?
Or what spoke to you about?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
that I think when life is hard for me, I have to
look at what's my prayer life,look like how much time am I
spending in the Word?
And if I'm in a bad place,those are the two things I need
(16:28):
to do.
You're never going to regrettime in prayer.
You're never going to regrettime in prayer.
You're never going to regrettime in the scripture.
I remember when Rebecca waseight months old and she had to
have surgery on her spinal cordat Children's Hospital and you
(16:50):
know it was like one of theworst things in my life, like
watching them take her from meinto the surgical suite and
there's a little chapel inChildren's Hospital and I
literally went straight to thechapel and got down on my knees.
I just I couldn't talk toanyone.
I didn't want to be aroundpeople.
I just needed to talk to Jesus,you know, because I was just a
mess as a mom.
To Jesus, you know, because Iwas just a mess as a mom and so,
(17:11):
um, I don't for me, likethere's I don't know where else
you go.
Like who, like the scripture.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
You know who who should we turn to you, have the
words of eternal life Like.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
So, yeah, what was the question?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
again, sorry, no, I think you totally nailed it.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
How can we change our posture?
That's yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I do think that there's a tendency in our
culture just to stuff it or runaway from it, right?
So, although I do know that timewith the Lord will be best for
me, I can find myself activelyresisting that for some reason.
I think it's just my sin,nature, right, and so then I'll
(17:55):
get busy doing other things, orI'm going to sit down and scroll
on YouTube for a little bit andlook at funny videos, try to
perk myself up, but I found thatthe healthiest thing that I've
done is during prayer time, whenI'm feeling just crummy about
something.
I will just feel the feelingand invite Jesus into that
(18:19):
feeling with me.
Say, jesus, I love you, I knowyou're here, please be with me
in my sadness about thissituation.
And then just sit there and Iimagine Jesus sitting next to me
while I feel really lousy, orsit with me in my anger, or sit
(18:41):
with me in my disappointment.
I name the bad feeling, I feelthe bad feeling and I invite
Jesus to be with me in it, andthen I just sit there for a
while with it.
Sometimes I cry and sometimes Idon't, but it's helpful to
imagine him there.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Sometimes I even just imagine handing that feeling,
like putting it at his feet likehim on the throne and me just
saying here I'm just going likeputting it at his feet, like him
on the throne and me justsaying here I'm just going to
set it at your feet, Take itfrom me.
You know, sometimes you're likeI don't want to feel this way
anymore, and sometimes I have topray that prayer over and over
(19:24):
and over here it is again.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, that's good.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I like the imagery.
I always find myself, I findyou know, really physically
imagining.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
This is me setting it at his feet, or here.
This is him sitting beside me.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, and I use some of my own sometimes when I'm
struggling to yield or to changemy posture.
There's that old song Jesus,take the wheel.
I love that image of okay,jesus, you drive.
Now I have a very hard timedoing that.
Call me a control freak, callme dominant, just
(20:04):
self-sufficient, whatever.
But I'm like okay, jesus, youcan have one hand on the wheel
or you can drive for a second,but I'm not going to let you sit
in the driver's seat or as soonas the bump is done.
Okay, I got it, I'm good, andso for me it.
Especially in the last, like Idon't know, five to 10 years
(20:25):
where I've been growing, I feellike a lot at a different level
in my faith as an adult.
I'm like okay, dina, you needto climb into the back seat and
strap yourself in and then lethim have control when you're not
even close to the wheel anymore.
Because it's just too temptingto touch.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yep, so true.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
So I try to imagine that.
Yeah, so one of the things thatI really liked well, Greg
talked about pray P-R-A-Y whichI know is something you use,
Kate, you know and that Y beingyield and yielding control.
But I liked that he saidjustice is not always instant
but it is always inevitable.
(21:08):
And that's where he really wentinto kind of talking about
where it's okay to say to Godwhere we might not have done it
that way, you know, but God isgoing to do things in his time
and it may not be in ourlifetime.
That something is.
And I think that there's a bigdifference between justice and
(21:30):
vengeance, and I think we in ourhuman minds get those confused
sometimes, Like if someonewrongs us, oh, we say we want
justice, but what we're reallysinfully hoping for is vengeance
, and they're not the same thing, Like God's justice is very
different than even God'svengeance.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
You know, because some of those Old Testament
stories are, you know, strong.
God is really striking it down.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Very strong, but he still wants what's best for all
of us.
Mm-hmm and yeah, did you guyshave any thoughts on that?
That justice is not alwaysinstant, but it's always
inevitable?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
I just thought the analogy of it being like a river
was really good, because it isa river, starts so simple and
small, and you know, and thengrows and, like Pastor Greg said
, you don't see what's under thesurface, you don't see what's
moving.
You know, but to think God'sjustice is moving, it's still
(22:41):
working.
He's still working every day.
We don't see it all, and it'sgrowing and one day It'll be
complete.
Yes and so.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, that brings me peace, yes, and just reminding
myself of God's character, likehe's completely just and
completely loving.
How great is that?
Because I am neither and no oneis on this earth.
But just to know that the Bibletalks a lot about the day of
(23:16):
the Lord, and sometimes thatseems really scary.
It's like you know some of thosethings that you think about TV
shows where they showed likeJesus coming back and it seems
like oh, this could be reallyscary, but the day of the Lord
is going to be fantastic in alot of ways, because everything
that's been wrong, all thoseinjustices, those things that
(23:37):
you're like I don't get itthey're all going to be made
right by a God who's perfectlyjust and perfectly loving.
It's like, wow, that's going tobe so satisfying.
Yeah, I can't even imagine howsatisfying that's going to be.
No, yeah, how satisfying that'sgoing to be no.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah.
So one last phrase that PastorGreg talked about was the verse
that's you know, act justly,love mercy, walk humbly.
And this I enjoyed selfishly,because there's a popular
Christian song like this, andwhen my son was probably nine or
10, he would sing at the top ofhis lungs in the shower.
(24:17):
But he would only know half thewords to any song that he was
singing and this is a song hewould sing a lot and he would
know the first word of eachphrase and not the second, and
so he would sing act, mercy love, justly like, just mix them all
up.
Or he'd say something,something, something something.
Whatever those good things were,so, yeah, I just thought that
(24:39):
when Greg referenced that verse,that was the first memory that
I had of my son just boldlysinging this.
But how does that verse speakto you guys in your life?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I actually had it written on my whiteboard in my
office till Peter erased it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh nice.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
But the reason why I had it written up there in
January, because you know thetime of resolutions and all that
.
But you know, so many peoplesay like, oh, I'm just trying to
figure out what God's will isfor my life.
And I just feel like that versetells me exactly what God's
will is for my life.
Like this is what you, you know, it's not a hide and seek game
(25:21):
where you have to go look for it.
Like this is what the Lord'scalled me to do.
And so the wording's great Actjustly Love, mercy, walk humbly
with your God.
Period, that's it.
Do those three things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
It's not complicated.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Usually I was going to say it may not be complicated
, but it's hard.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It is hard.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Right?
It is Because I think about actjustly.
Do I always know what a justdecision would be?
Even in my own life?
Probably not.
Or as someone who works onstaff, like what's it?
What does being just look like?
Then loving mercy?
I, oh I, have a heart that canbe so unmerciful sometimes
towards people.
I can be critical andjudgmental and I'll be like, oh,
(26:05):
you shouldn't be that way,instead of looking at people
with kindness.
And then you know, walkinghumbly before the Lord, and then
you know, walking humbly beforethe Lord.
There's still a lot of justpride in my life that I'm asking
the Holy Spirit to uproot.
And so, and when you thinkabout Jesus, he was all of those
(26:28):
things right, he did act justly.
Think about all those times whenhe just delivered such a right
judgment in the moment, onpeople and situations.
How kind he was towards peopleand then how humble, right, he
was.
Never drawing attention towardshimself, he's always pointing
towards his Father or looking atother people.
(26:48):
It's just like Jesus, help meto be more like you.
Fill me, you know, not bytrying harder, but just asking
for an indwelling of the HolySpirit so I can be more like you
.
Fill me, you know, not bytrying harder, but just asking
for an indwelling of the HolySpirit so I can be more like you
.
Transform me from the insideout.
It's a good prayer.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Any final takeaways as we wrap up today.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I just like the second part of Psalm 73.
Go for it.
Can I read?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Because I love there's like a turning point,
and it's verse 16, I believe,where it's the turning point.
So I tried to understand whythe wicked prosper.
But what a difficult task it is.
So that's right before.
He's like they just keep makingworse decisions and they keep
(27:34):
getting richer.
You know their life is so easyand I know I felt that way
sometimes.
But then 17 says then I wentinto your sanctuary, o God, and
I finally understood the destinyof the wicked.
Truly, you put them on aslippery path and send them
sliding over the cliff todestruction, which is what will
(27:55):
happen to all who turn from God.
In an instant they aredestroyed, completely, swept
away by terrors.
When you arise, o Lord, youwill laugh at their silly ideas,
as a person laughs at dreams inthe morning.
Then I realized that my heartwas bitter and I was all torn up
inside.
I was so foolish and ignorant Imust have sensed like a
(28:18):
senseless animal to you.
Yet I still belong to you.
You hold my right hand, youguide me with your counsel,
leading me to a glorious destiny.
Whom have I in heaven but you?
I desire you more than anythingon earth.
My health will fail, my spiritmay grow weak, but God remains
the strength of my heart.
(28:39):
He is mine forever and Ithought that is humanity.
We think these crazy thoughtsand evil is winning sometimes
and it's disheartening.
Winning sometimes and it'sdisheartening, but when you turn
yourself to the Lord and enterHis presence, that's when you're
(28:59):
like okay, I know what's mostimportant.
I know it is eternal.
That's what I need to have myfocus on Love it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much for beinghere, ladies.
We'll be back next week withthe final sermon in this series
of Where's God, and until then,let's keep living our faith
beyond Sunday you.
Hello and welcome to Beyond Sunday, the podcast where
we dive into the King of Kingsmessage series each week and see
what we're taking Beyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I amblessed with some wonderful
companionship today.
Go ahead and introduce yourself, ladies.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi, I'm Julie Easley.
I'm the executive director hereat King of Kings.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And I'm Kate Solberg and I'm the associate campus
director at our Northwest campus.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome.
You know, this week we had abig holiday it was Mother's Day.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It was.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, and both of you are mothers and daughters, so
my start off question for youtoday is what is like your best
memory of a mothering experience?
It could be something that'sreally heartfelt, or it could be
something that always makes youlaugh, you know, and it can be
(00:53):
on the mother side or on thedaughter side, you know what's a
mothering experience that youthink of fondly.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So I have a picture that I share sometimes on
Facebook of me and my mom.
I was the oldest of three girlsand my mom was, just in my mind
, almost the idealized mother,just so patient and loving, and
there's a picture of us.
Now this is going to reallydate me right, because this is
so old.
But for Christmas one year Igot a Marie Osmond you know
(01:25):
those styling heads where youcould put the makeup on the doll
and do her hair Picture of mymom just sitting with me as I
was, you know, kind of puttingthe makeup on Marie and she just
would get down on the floor andjust spend time.
You know that was.
She was such a patient givingis such a patient, is such a
patient giving person.
(01:45):
And just thinking about that,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Now that my kids are older, I kind of miss.
When they made something atschool that week and it was like
in a secret pocket in theirbackpack.
Their teacher was like, put itin your backpack, wait till
Sunday, and then you'd see themcoming down the stairs with
something hidden in their hand,so sweet, homemade and painted,
(02:11):
and you know just precious, Iknow.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, just love it.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
My best memories of my mom, or of me and my kids,
are all like making fun of eachother.
I have such a heart for a senseof humor, like and being able
to laugh at yourself, and my momjust used to make up phrases
Like I don't know, she, she umscared my brothers in the bushes
(02:37):
one night when they wereplaying outside with their
friends when they were likeearly teenagers and they started
calling her ninja mom, and soshe was ninja mom forever.
So I think of that and that'sfunny.
Or this one time she was veryfrustrated with something that
she was talking about and shewas like that's just a load of
crap on a crap stick, and that'snow a phrase that my whole
(02:57):
family uses on the regular.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I love it no one else .
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Knows they look at us like we're nuts To me those are
just those fun memories.
Or knows they look at us likewe're nuts, but to me those are
just those fun memories.
Or recently my family went on atrip and my kids planned
everything.
I have children that are adults, are almost adults, and so I
was just kind of along for theride.
I never knew what was happening, but I was just so happy to be
on the trip and my two of mykids turned to me and said mom,
(03:21):
you're like the golden retrieverof travel, you're just along
for the for the ride, you'rehappy no matter what, you're
just along for the ride, and sothat was like a month ago and
since then they've called me agolden retriever multiple times
and some people may take offenseat that, but I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I think it's sweet and it fits with your blonde
hair too.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Golden retrievers are like the best dogs ever.
Definitely a compliment, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, that's cute.
Well, transitioning from, youknow, some fond memories to,
sometimes even in motherhood,where we may wonder why are
these things happening.
And so our message is week fourof our Where's God series, and
Pastor Greg this week talkedabout God, where is your justice
(04:07):
?
And the core of this was hey,god, do you see what's happening
here Like things that are fair,things that are unfair, and
what we see as God's response tothat.
And so what's your biggestthing that you're taking beyond
Sunday?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And so what's your biggest thing that you're taking
beyond Sunday?
Yeah, I just think awaypressing in and being honest
about what's challenging or whatyou don't understand.
I think about scripture all thelike.
I'm going through the Psalmsright now in my personal
devotions and so much of it iscomplaining to God or saying
(05:02):
like where are you and whyaren't you answering?
And please come rescue me rightnow.
And I just love beingchallenged to engage God on that
level.
When things are tough, not pullaway, but to press in.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I thought that was great too.
I thought that was great too.
Just turning that question fromwhere are you to where am I?
And because I do think it'soften tempting to you know, turn
away from God or doubt Him orsay this is not working out like
(05:40):
I had hoped and thinking Godlet you down, yeah, so yeah,
that was good.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think this series and I guess I'm lucky enough to
sit in here each week where weget to dive in a little bit more
and sit with different peoplethat bring up and I just see
this reoccurring theme of duringstruggles and during waiting
and during feeling like we'rewanting justice, there's an
isolation that happens and theanswer always is community.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Turning towards God and turning towards others, and
I really liked the story thatGreg told about the girl who
went and sat by the isolatedgirl at the lunch table.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Oh so powerful.
Yes, girl at the lunch table,oh so powerful.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, that's where I just really felt like that's
whether we're the girl who isisolated and being open to
someone else bringing us in, orwe're the person who goes and
sits by that person, who isgoing through the struggle, like
I just.
But it's just this theme duringall of these, of where is God
and he's always with us, but wecan be with each other too that
(06:45):
really has been growing andspeaking to me.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, and just that kind of courageous step out like
in that story, someone beingcourageous to step out and take
the first move towards someone.
And I think when we're feelingisolated it's really easy to
think you know no one's callingme, no one's inviting me, no
one's asking me, no one'sinquiring of me, and just saying
you know what's within my powerto do, I can actually make a
reach out, trusting that God'sgoing to make a good connection
(07:15):
there or that someone else is.
I mean, like everybodystruggles in some way.
Who wouldn't want to be invitedto a conversation?
I think most people would beopen to that.
So instead of saying you know,I guess this just isn't in the
cards for me.
What's one thing you could dothis week to help yourself
become less isolated?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Definitely so.
Pastor Greg started with sayingsometimes we may feel like the
wicked is winning in our worldwhen we look around at our world
and this isn't fair.
How could this happen?
Can you share a time when maybeyou felt that way in your life,
or some experience that youwent through that you were like
okay, why is this happening?
(07:59):
This is not fair?
Yeah, not fair.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, well, you both know that I went through breast
cancer in 2016, 2017, and met alot of women going through that
same challenge and praise God, Iwent through chemotherapy and
then surgery and when they didthat surgery, they found no
(08:23):
evidence of cancer, which was amiracle blessing.
I don't know all of thosethings and but I've had friends
do that same procedure and havethe exact opposite, where their
cancer not only was still there,but it grew bigger.
And so I, one friend inparticular.
(08:45):
Her cancer, um, grew throughher treatment and she ended up
passing away and she was youngerthan me and her children were
younger than my children, andthat was so hard, yeah.
And you know something I prayedabout, um, still pray about,
you know.
I mean there's no way you couldmake sense of it, but just
(09:09):
yield, like Greg talked aboutyielding, just handing it to God
and saying your ways are higherthan mine.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I can't make sense of it.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Here's what I do know like how Psalm 73 starts Truly,
god is good to Israel, to thosewhose hearts are pure.
I know that's true and, likeGreg said, I think he was
talking to himself, remindinghim of what is true.
And that's what I have to do.
God is still good, he's stillon the throne, he has a plan.
I would maybe turn out thingsdifferently if I had the power
(09:42):
to take her cancer away.
I would have loved to do that,but I don't have the power.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, I saw a little clip by Tim Keller, who actually
passed away from cancer notthat long ago, and he was
talking about you know.
We may say to God you know Iwould have.
I thought life should haveturned out this way, but I don't
know.
If I knew what you know, right,then maybe I would have made
(10:13):
the same choice and just kind ofbeing open-handed and saying
like, truly I don't know, andthat sort of humility before the
Lord.
That's the whole basis ofyielding right.
It's just saying I'm submittingto your authority, god, in all
(10:34):
of life, and even though this ispainful and doesn't make sense,
I know you're good andtherefore I'm going to yield.
Boy, yielding is so tough,right.
Yielding sounds like a weakthing to do.
I'm just going to yield forthis car, right.
But when you think about, evenin traffic, when you have to
(10:56):
yield, you have to exercise adegree of authority over
yourself to allow someone elseto take precedence.
To allow someone else to takeprecedence.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So yeah, it almost made me uncomfortable in worship
.
When Pastor Greg was saying Idisagree, god, I would have done
it differently.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I was like oh are you allowed to say that I'm like.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I don't know about that, but I've said the same
thing.
I would have taken her canceraway, I would have healed her, I
would have given her 50 moreyears with her children.
Yes, so I am saying I wouldhave done it different than you
got.
Yep, so I'm glad he worded itthat way, because I think we all
(11:39):
do that.
Yes, yes, and we don't know, wedon't see the big picture, but
for some reason in our humanbrains we think we would make a
better decision knowing thistiny bit.
I don't know.
I know it's hard to put it allinto words.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And I think what's kind of helpful too, just to
remember is like we may be ableto say, oh, I can identify how
this was God's plan, like within10 minutes, or maybe it'll be
like five years, or it might benever.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Never, never.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I mean, there are certain things that are just so
tough.
It's like, yeah, I've gotnothing and it may have to wait.
And there's like You're notdoing it wrong if you don't come
up with a good answer, Right.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah Well, and I always think like there was an
initial point in creation whereGod had to decide am I going?
To give these humans free will.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Or am I just going to command them to obey me?
Right, and he either chose orhe knew all along along he
wanted to give us free will.
Yeah, he wanted his children tolove him From the heart, yes,
from the heart.
And so I think, once he decidedthat that put all kinds of
(12:59):
crazy things into place.
Right, because we choose thewrong thing most of the time,
unfortunately, so it's us whomesses things up.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, god isn't messing things up, no, I saw
once on social media aquote-unquote social media
summary of the Bible.
God said do the things.
The people said yep God, we gotit.
The people did not do thethings.
God said do the things thepeople said yep God, we got it.
The people did not do thethings God said.
Do the things the people saidyep God, we got it.
The people did not do thethings.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That's basically the Old Testament in a nutshell Over
and over again.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But I like that.
You said you were like oh, canwe ask that?
I don't remember now if it wasin week one or week two of the
series where Greg talked aboutGod can take it.
God can take our emotions.
That we can be upset that hedidn't make the choice that we
wanted.
And that's okay, he does, butwe are still yielding to him
that he does know better and hedoes know more than us.
(14:01):
I know for me my time when Ireally was like this is not fair
is I have two daughters, andone of them when she was in
middle school, which is thehardest time in life, I think.
Anyway, one day she had thisgreat group of friends and they
had been friends for years, andit was literally like the next
(14:22):
day she went to school and shewas the kid sitting alone at the
lunch table.
They like purposefully oustedher from the group and didn't
talk to her.
It's brutal.
And at 12 years old, like how doI even teach her to comprehend
that this too shall pass?
Or this is you know.
But in hindsight, after muchheartache and much like knowing
(14:48):
years later, those were not thefriends she was supposed to have
at that time in her life.
And I really think there wassome level of divine
intervention that God gave herdifferent friends that really
supported her through things shewas going through in a way that
I know those first group offriends couldn't have.
They didn't have the samebackground and the same
understanding that would haveset up the safe space for her
(15:13):
that she needed at that time,and it's always those things
that you look at in hindsightthat, oh yeah, that was God's
plan.
But, like you said, there aresome times where you never get
that aha moment yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Aha moment.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, so one of the things that Greg Pastor Greg
really talked about was you know, we ask where is God, but how
can we ask where am I?
And you made a brief mention ofthat, kate.
You know, how do we change ourposture, like he was giving an
example of oh, we say God isgood all the time and all the
the time God is good, but whereis he in this situation?
(15:51):
We ask that and God's bigenough to take that question,
but how do we change our postureor our view or our response in
that?
What are your thoughts on that?
Or what spoke to you about?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
that I think when life is hard for me, I have to
look at what's my prayer life,look like how much time am I
spending in the Word?
And if I'm in a bad place,those are the two things I need
(16:28):
to do.
You're never going to regrettime in prayer.
You're never going to regrettime in prayer.
You're never going to regrettime in the scripture.
I remember when Rebecca waseight months old and she had to
have surgery on her spinal cordat Children's Hospital and you
(16:50):
know it was like one of theworst things in my life, like
watching them take her from meinto the surgical suite and
there's a little chapel inChildren's Hospital and I
literally went straight to thechapel and got down on my knees.
I just I couldn't talk toanyone.
I didn't want to be aroundpeople.
I just needed to talk to Jesus,you know, because I was just a
mess as a mom.
To Jesus, you know, because Iwas just a mess as a mom and so,
(17:11):
um, I don't for me, likethere's I don't know where else
you go.
Like who, like the scripture.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
You know who who should we turn to you, have the
words of eternal life Like.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
So, yeah, what was the question?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
again, sorry, no, I think you totally nailed it.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
How can we change our posture?
That's yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I do think that there's a tendency in our
culture just to stuff it or runaway from it, right?
So, although I do know that timewith the Lord will be best for
me, I can find myself activelyresisting that for some reason.
I think it's just my sin,nature, right, and so then I'll
(17:55):
get busy doing other things, orI'm going to sit down and scroll
on YouTube for a little bit andlook at funny videos, try to
perk myself up, but I found thatthe healthiest thing that I've
done is during prayer time, whenI'm feeling just crummy about
something.
I will just feel the feelingand invite Jesus into that
(18:19):
feeling with me.
Say, jesus, I love you, I knowyou're here, please be with me
in my sadness about thissituation.
And then just sit there and Iimagine Jesus sitting next to me
while I feel really lousy, orsit with me in my anger, or sit
(18:41):
with me in my disappointment.
I name the bad feeling, I feelthe bad feeling and I invite
Jesus to be with me in it, andthen I just sit there for a
while with it.
Sometimes I cry and sometimes Idon't, but it's helpful to
imagine him there.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Sometimes I even just imagine handing that feeling,
like putting it at his feet likehim on the throne and me just
saying here I'm just going likeputting it at his feet, like him
on the throne and me justsaying here I'm just going to
set it at your feet, Take itfrom me.
You know, sometimes you're likeI don't want to feel this way
anymore, and sometimes I have topray that prayer over and over
(19:24):
and over here it is again.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, that's good.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I like the imagery.
I always find myself, I findyou know, really physically
imagining.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
This is me setting it at his feet, or here.
This is him sitting beside me.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, and I use some of my own sometimes when I'm
struggling to yield or to changemy posture.
There's that old song Jesus,take the wheel.
I love that image of okay,jesus, you drive.
Now I have a very hard timedoing that.
Call me a control freak, callme dominant, just
(20:04):
self-sufficient, whatever.
But I'm like okay, jesus, youcan have one hand on the wheel
or you can drive for a second,but I'm not going to let you sit
in the driver's seat or as soonas the bump is done.
Okay, I got it, I'm good, andso for me it.
Especially in the last, like Idon't know, five to 10 years
(20:25):
where I've been growing, I feellike a lot at a different level
in my faith as an adult.
I'm like okay, dina, you needto climb into the back seat and
strap yourself in and then lethim have control when you're not
even close to the wheel anymore.
Because it's just too temptingto touch.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yep, so true.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
So I try to imagine that.
Yeah, so one of the things thatI really liked well, Greg
talked about pray P-R-A-Y whichI know is something you use,
Kate, you know and that Y beingyield and yielding control.
But I liked that he saidjustice is not always instant
but it is always inevitable.
(21:08):
And that's where he really wentinto kind of talking about
where it's okay to say to Godwhere we might not have done it
that way, you know, but God isgoing to do things in his time
and it may not be in ourlifetime.
That something is.
And I think that there's a bigdifference between justice and
(21:30):
vengeance, and I think we in ourhuman minds get those confused
sometimes, Like if someonewrongs us, oh, we say we want
justice, but what we're reallysinfully hoping for is vengeance
, and they're not the same thing, Like God's justice is very
different than even God'svengeance.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
You know, because some of those Old Testament
stories are, you know, strong.
God is really striking it down.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Very strong, but he still wants what's best for all
of us.
Mm-hmm and yeah, did you guyshave any thoughts on that?
That justice is not alwaysinstant, but it's always
inevitable?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
I just thought the analogy of it being like a river
was really good, because it isa river, starts so simple and
small, and you know, and thengrows and, like Pastor Greg said
, you don't see what's under thesurface, you don't see what's
moving.
You know, but to think God'sjustice is moving, it's still
(22:41):
working.
He's still working every day.
We don't see it all, and it'sgrowing and one day It'll be
complete.
Yes and so.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, that brings me peace, yes, and just reminding
myself of God's character, likehe's completely just and
completely loving.
How great is that?
Because I am neither and no oneis on this earth.
But just to know that the Bibletalks a lot about the day of
(23:16):
the Lord, and sometimes thatseems really scary.
It's like you know some of thosethings that you think about TV
shows where they showed likeJesus coming back and it seems
like oh, this could be reallyscary, but the day of the Lord
is going to be fantastic in alot of ways, because everything
that's been wrong, all thoseinjustices, those things that
(23:37):
you're like I don't get itthey're all going to be made
right by a God who's perfectlyjust and perfectly loving.
It's like, wow, that's going tobe so satisfying.
Yeah, I can't even imagine howsatisfying that's going to be.
No, yeah, how satisfying that'sgoing to be no.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah.
So one last phrase that PastorGreg talked about was the verse
that's you know, act justly,love mercy, walk humbly.
And this I enjoyed selfishly,because there's a popular
Christian song like this, andwhen my son was probably nine or
10, he would sing at the top ofhis lungs in the shower.
(24:17):
But he would only know half thewords to any song that he was
singing and this is a song hewould sing a lot and he would
know the first word of eachphrase and not the second, and
so he would sing act, mercy love, justly like, just mix them all
up.
Or he'd say something,something, something something.
Whatever those good things were,so, yeah, I just thought that
(24:39):
when Greg referenced that verse,that was the first memory that
I had of my son just boldlysinging this.
But how does that verse speakto you guys in your life?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I actually had it written on my whiteboard in my
office till Peter erased it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh nice.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
But the reason why I had it written up there in
January, because you know thetime of resolutions and all that
.
But you know, so many peoplesay like, oh, I'm just trying to
figure out what God's will isfor my life.
And I just feel like that versetells me exactly what God's
will is for my life.
Like this is what you, you know, it's not a hide and seek game
(25:21):
where you have to go look for it.
Like this is what the Lord'scalled me to do.
And so the wording's great Actjustly Love, mercy, walk humbly
with your God.
Period, that's it.
Do those three things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
It's not complicated.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Usually I was going to say it may not be complicated
, but it's hard.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It is hard.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Right?
It is Because I think about actjustly.
Do I always know what a justdecision would be?
Even in my own life?
Probably not.
Or as someone who works onstaff, like what's it?
What does being just look like?
Then loving mercy?
I, oh I, have a heart that canbe so unmerciful sometimes
towards people.
I can be critical andjudgmental and I'll be like, oh,
(26:05):
you shouldn't be that way,instead of looking at people
with kindness.
And then you know, walkinghumbly before the Lord, and then
you know, walking humbly beforethe Lord.
There's still a lot of justpride in my life that I'm asking
the Holy Spirit to uproot.
And so, and when you thinkabout Jesus, he was all of those
(26:28):
things right, he did act justly.
Think about all those times whenhe just delivered such a right
judgment in the moment, onpeople and situations.
How kind he was towards peopleand then how humble, right, he
was.
Never drawing attention towardshimself, he's always pointing
towards his Father or looking atother people.
(26:48):
It's just like Jesus, help meto be more like you.
Fill me, you know, not bytrying harder, but just asking
for an indwelling of the HolySpirit so I can be more like you
.
Fill me, you know, not bytrying harder, but just asking
for an indwelling of the HolySpirit so I can be more like you
.
Transform me from the insideout.
It's a good prayer.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Any final takeaways as we wrap up today.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I just like the second part of Psalm 73.
Go for it.
Can I read?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Because I love there's like a turning point,
and it's verse 16, I believe,where it's the turning point.
So I tried to understand whythe wicked prosper.
But what a difficult task it is.
So that's right before.
He's like they just keep makingworse decisions and they keep
(27:34):
getting richer.
You know their life is so easyand I know I felt that way
sometimes.
But then 17 says then I wentinto your sanctuary, o God, and
I finally understood the destinyof the wicked.
Truly, you put them on aslippery path and send them
sliding over the cliff todestruction, which is what will
(27:55):
happen to all who turn from God.
In an instant they aredestroyed, completely, swept
away by terrors.
When you arise, o Lord, youwill laugh at their silly ideas,
as a person laughs at dreams inthe morning.
Then I realized that my heartwas bitter and I was all torn up
inside.
I was so foolish and ignorant Imust have sensed like a
(28:18):
senseless animal to you.
Yet I still belong to you.
You hold my right hand, youguide me with your counsel,
leading me to a glorious destiny.
Whom have I in heaven but you?
I desire you more than anythingon earth.
My health will fail, my spiritmay grow weak, but God remains
the strength of my heart.
(28:39):
He is mine forever and Ithought that is humanity.
We think these crazy thoughtsand evil is winning sometimes
and it's disheartening.
Winning sometimes and it'sdisheartening, but when you turn
yourself to the Lord and enterHis presence, that's when you're
(28:59):
like okay, I know what's mostimportant.
I know it is eternal.
That's what I need to have myfocus on Love it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much for beinghere, ladies.
We'll be back next week withthe final sermon in this series
of Where's God, and until then,let's keep living our faith
beyond Sunday you.
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