June 11, 2025 • 20 mins
In this Beyond Sunday episode, Dina, Julie, and Greg continue the Honor Code series with a conversation about what it really means to honor others—especially when we don’t agree. From checking our motives to balancing grace and truth, they explore how honoring authority and leading with humility can reshape our relationships and reflect God’s heart in everyday life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive into oursermon series and see what we're
taking beyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I amecstatic to have some great
guests today.
Go ahead, introduce yourselves,guys.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, I'm Julie Easley.
I'm the executive director hereat King of Kings.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And I'm Greg Griffith , the lead pastor, and excited
to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I'm so happy to have you.
So I don't know if you guysknow this, but this week is
Superman week international.
Superman week.
Yeah, I didn't even know thatwas a thing.
No me either.
So my question for you is ifyou had a superpower, what would
it be and why?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, just dealing with all the construction around
Omaha, it's flying.
I just want to zoom overeverything that is slowing me
down.
Yes, goodbye, leave the trafficbehind.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah, mine would be teleportation, like I just think
where I want to be and I'mthere, like right now I would be
on an Island in Jamaica and nowI'd be on an.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Island in Thailand Island hopping?
Yeah, I would.
I would love to be able to likemove things with my mind that
seems, you know.
I don't have to get up and walkacross the room, I can just
that would come in handy whenyou want to reconfigure your
furniture.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, Well, if you have enough faith, you can.
You're just not there yet, Dina.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm working on it.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Someday I'll get there.
I thought that would always beconvenient when my kids were
little if I could just mentallypick them up and take them away
from whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Instead of chasing them around.
Yeah, love it.
Well, we just had our secondweek of this Honor Code series,
and so what really spoke to youguys?
What are you taking beyondSunday?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I think, probably the overarching theme for me was
that Jesus is always asking forthe greater thing, which is our
hearts.
So you know, we could befulfilling kind of the letter of
the law.
But if the spirit of the lawand how we feel in our hearts
isn't in accordance with, like,his will and his desire for us,
(02:18):
we're not giving him thegreatest gift.
And so if we honor people justwith our words but not really
with our hearts, and if we'renot surrendering our hearts
entirely to God, jesus is askingfor more.
That's what he really wants.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, for me, what came away is just a reminder of
we have a call to honor thosewho are an authority over us,
and for me, what I reallythought about is you know, I
think naturally we think aboutpolice, military, government
officials, but there's so manyothers that have authority over
us that we've actually evengiven the ability to have
(02:55):
authority over us the bank thatowns our home loan, the car
dealership that owns our carloan, our boss.
You know, when we giveourselves or we give authority
away to a coworker or a friend,or when we join in a team
collaborative effort, we give upmy way and say it's got to be
our way.
And so just a reminder thatwe're called to submit to all
(03:18):
authority, whether large orsmall, and that really does
honor one another in ourmarriages, in our parenting, in
our co-working and in everythingthat we do yeah, I really.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Um, I thought a lot about um zach talking about
being right in content but wrongin character in the way that we
say things, and that one'sreally been stern and stern in
my brain.
Yeah, that's good.
Social media is a prime exampleof that where people are taking
a stand for what they think areright, but maybe going about it
in the wrong way.
But that's just really whatI've been chewing on.
(03:53):
So Pastor Zach Zender openedthis week by doing a big coin
toss.
What's you guys' go-to heads ortails If somebody asks you to
flip a coin?
Do you have or do you just pick?
Whatever you feel at the moment?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I kind of vacillate back and forth.
If it's like this coin has beentossed a few times, I try to be
like, okay, they've done threeheads and one tail, so um.
But if it's the first time, Iusually pick tails.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I'm always heads, I'm always tails.
Oh wow, I'm out.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Oh wow, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
It's a good combo.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, so, zach's, the definition of honor that he is
working with through thismessage series is to pursue a
good reputation and show properrespect to others, and one of
the questions that he asks ishow do you honor authority when
it's different than you orpossibly different than God's
word?
And Greg, you kind of talkedabout the different authority
(04:48):
figures that we have in our life.
What's your thoughts on that?
How do we honor authority whenit's different than maybe how we
feel it should be?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
What I've been thinking about a lot is just
when I'm talking about someone,would I say that right to their
face?
If they were standing in frontof me, would I use this kind of
tone of voice?
What kind of language would Iuse?
And so, trying to think aboutwhen I'm talking or referring to
(05:19):
someone whether it be thepresident or someone that I'm
much closer to would I be sayingit in the exact same way if
they were right next to me?
Like I could have adisagreement with someone on
something and still be honoring,and it's okay to not agree
about everything, but how am Isaying it and how am I thinking
(05:40):
about that person?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, I think for me it comes down to quite a few
things I really look in andthink about like, how am I
showing honor to even those thatI don't agree with?
I have a friend.
She and I don't agree on somethings and I believe she's
(06:03):
biblically out of out of out ofscripture Um, she doesn't.
But one way I show honor is iswhen she's talking about it.
Um, I, I'm very careful of howI measure my words.
I don't need to try to win thefight, I don't even need a fight
, and so so I think the honorthat I try to give is it's not a
(06:23):
salvation issue, so I don'teven need a fight, and so I
think the honor that I try togive is it's not a salvation
issue, so I don't need to try tochange her mind.
I can say, yeah, that's notwhere I'm at, and if you ask me,
I'll tell you.
But if you're not asking, I'mgoing to keep my mouth shut and
I don't know that my silence issaying I agree, but it's saying
I love you and we don't need tohave a harsh feelings on one
(06:43):
another.
I also think it's important wejust see around the world Like
I'm.
I'm so I grew up where like andI'm an apolitical person,
that's just my style but if thepresident invited you to the
White House, it didn't matter ifyou were a Republican, democrat
, independent or Communist, youwere going, the invitation and I
(07:07):
kind of like I've been reallythinking about this lately of
like that invitation is one tohonor you by saying you're
invited to a place that noteveryone gets to, and then you
kind of dishonor.
They're trying to honor you andand I'm like man, when did we
(07:28):
get so so much that we?
One thing I'll be sharing thisweekend too is just honor is not
about what you've done or yourpersonage, it's about your
position sometimes.
And so, yeah, we just have tofigure out a way to honor better
and be able to share what wewant without dishonoring
everyone around us.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And I'm thinking about, like, when you're talking
about the conversation that yousometimes have with your friend
right Another way to honorpeople is just to listen without
thinking about how you're goingto respond but, just simply
listening to their whole storyperiod Without like, oh now,
what snappy comeback am I goingto have to this?
(08:12):
Just honoring people with goodlistening.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
That's what I thought of with this.
Is there's a saying that I sawthat's?
Are you listening to understandor are you listening to defend?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I will admit, many times in my life I was listening
to defend until I reallystarted thinking about that.
And how am I simply I don't.
That doesn't mean I'm listeningto agree that.
And how am I simply I don't?
That doesn't mean I'm listeningto agree, but I am honoring
that person by listening totheir story or their side or
their position or whatever it is, by just listening to
understand them better, andthat's going to help me honor
(08:47):
them more in the long run as afriend, as a coworker, as a boss
, as a neighbor, you know,because I'm going to know more
about them.
Yeah, instead of being so busybuilding my counter argument.
That's good.
So one of the things that Zachtalked about is how you stand
matters just as much as what youstand for.
(09:10):
How did that strike you or whatdid that make you think of?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I think it's an important piece here of like we
.
You know, if we're standing, andI kind of think about like our
body language.
If I'm standing and listening tosomeone and my arms are crossed
, I'm already saying I don't, Idon't agree, I'm not going to
honor you, Right, when, if I'mstanding with my arms down, and
(09:36):
and even there's even a spotwhere, if you're standing and
you open your palms out, it'skind of that I'm receiving where
you're at.
And and I think one of thethings that I think about is
it's really easy in our worldand our culture to to
unknowingly and unwillingly, butand culturally appropriately,
(09:58):
um, to dishonor children.
And by culturally appropriatelyI'm just meaning that we say
well, you're a kid, what do youknow?
But, man, when you show a kidhonor by listening to them, by
getting on their level, byhearing what they say and um, by
by helping them, I mean it justchanges the relationship and
changes where they're at.
And so you know, if you have aposition of defensiveness, of
(10:23):
anger, of I'm always right,you're always wrong, of you know
, I'm going to just tell you allthe facts and flood you with
facts and stats.
Honestly, it doesn't matterwhat you stand for, because no
one's going to want to hear whatyou have to say.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, when I think about how I stand, I think about
just my presence anywhere, soit could be in person or it
could be online.
Especially when I'm on socialmedia, I'm really aware of the
fact that for a number of myfriends, I may be the only
Christian that they actuallyknow as a human being, and I
(11:01):
feel that responsibility greatly.
How am I coming across?
Is it a spirit of love andkindness?
Right, and there's grace andtruth there?
So I'm not changing my beliefs,but how am I talking about
things that are important to meand what's that tone?
I just want to be such a goodcaretaker of that trust that I
(11:24):
feel like the Lord's given to meto be His representative out in
the world.
And then I do think thatconversations, personal
conversations, just go so muchfurther than little blurbs on
social media.
So if you really do want totalk to someone about a serious
issue where you have maybe somedifferences of opinion, I just
think the way to mediate that isin person, where they can see
(11:48):
you and hear your tone of voiceand you're actually looking at
them.
Again, that person to personmakes such a difference.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I think one of the things we're seeing this play
out right now.
I think most people, regardlessof your ideations, would say our
immigration system is broken,not fatally, but there's some
major flaws.
It's super expensive toimmigrate here, even if you're
doing it legally.
(12:16):
It takes a long time, anywherefrom seven to ten years to
become a citizen, and there'snot an easy path forward, um,
and and there's not an easy pathforward, um, but what's
happening in Los Angeles, withthe rioting and the destruction
of those in authority, thethefts of businesses that have
tried to and hired and done thatright, all the things that
(12:39):
they're trying to say they standfor what they're doing, really
says we're not, we're not goingto listen to you, you're not,
you're not helping the at all.
There is a way in our country toprotest in a way, illegally,
that says, hey, this is an issue, but but really, if you're, if
you're standing in a posture ofviolence, you're not really
(13:01):
standing for for anything thatwill bring about great change
and you're definitely nothonoring you're not honoring
those you're trying to help insome way and you're not honoring
those who are standingalongside of you and you're not
honoring the other side to hearand listen and say, okay, how do
we do this?
And so we're seeing some ofthis play out in our culture
right here, right now.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
That's really good.
Yeah, not honoring the otherside, that's a yeah, through
just your posture and, like yousaid, not honoring even the
people you're trying to help,right?
So part of the things that Zachread from the Bible was in Mark
and it was about how leaders atthat time kind of tried to trap
Jesus.
(13:43):
Talking about money, or talkingabout Caesar and stuff.
What do those passages make youthink of, or what does that
stir up in you?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Well, so this kind of goes back to my first point
about, like Jesus, always beinginterested in the state of our
heart.
I thought about how many timeshave I played gotcha with
someone in my conversations withthem, or tried to kind of set
them up so then I could put thescrews to them later on in the
conversation, or just delightingin someone that I don't agree
(14:17):
with being owned by someone elseDo you know what I'm saying?
And that like speaks to areally unhealthy part of my
heart that wants to win or tosee somebody else be put down
and my position be exalted.
And so I just thought, you knowI could be a Pharisee sometimes
, just looking to entrap peopleor own them somehow.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, I don't know that I could be a Pharisee, but
I could be a Sadducee for sure.
So, no, in all reality, as Ithought about that too, I think
we all try to trap Jesus all thetime, and I think we don't
recognize it necessarily, but Ithink anytime we say you know, I
know God wouldn't like this,but he just has to understand
(15:03):
We've trapped him right.
What we've really said is God,I know I've heard you love me,
and because you love me, eventhough your will says this, even
though your word says this, youjust got to know I can't do
that right now.
And so the trap is do youaccept me or not?
And it's doing the same thing.
It's a trap.
And so I found myself doing thatright, like, you know, whether
(15:27):
it was with my language, orwhether it was with my finances,
or whether it was with mydecisions, or the things that I
wanted to do or didn't want todo, or how I parent, right.
It was like, yeah, you know,god's just got to understand
this.
This is me and I'm a work inprogress.
And at that point, when we putGod in that position, we just
come to him and just say okay,here's the trap Do you love me
(15:49):
or do you not?
And it's doing the same thing.
And so I think we've all beenthere, we've all done that, and
a reminder is that we have a Godwho says you know, confess that
, receive forgiveness and repentfrom that.
It doesn't mean it's easy, itdoesn't mean it's going to be
perfect, but it is the plan.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
That's really good.
Yeah, all right, as we kind ofwrap up on this, what are your
takeaways from this message?
What are you looking forward toin the next couple?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, I think for me, my takeaway was it's just a
reminder that when I have a anissue with someone in authority,
I have to and this is this ismy prayer pattern I have to do
two things.
First, I have to talk to thatperson before I talk to others,
and especially before I putstuff online or anything like
that.
I'm, I'm, I become really,really careful of what I put
(16:42):
online.
Um, because I, I one, I don't.
I don't think anyone's everbeen persuaded from the other
side through a online post, andI know some might not like what
I'm about to say.
I think most of the time whenwe post something online, we
want everyone to tell us howgreat we are and how right we
are, and then, if someonedisagrees, then it just becomes
(17:05):
this mob and I don't see anyvalue in that.
So, have I talked to the personin the best way?
And then, two, I think there'sa yield spot on this of really
understanding and saying thisisn't my authority and that's
okay, and it may not be the wayI would have done it, it may not
be how I would want to do it,but it's not my authority.
(17:28):
Going back to what I said, wegive authority to others.
All the time we give authorityto our mortgage company and at
any time the mortgage companycan say we're calling your loan,
that's in the document, andeven if you owe $200,000, they
can say we need it now and youhave to pay it.
You can complain, you can cry,you can say it's not fair.
You've actually given thatauthority away already and
(17:51):
they're doing what they can do,and now most of the time they
don't.
But it's just that reminder forme of going.
I have to let go of the thingsI don't have authority over, and
that's yielding.
So in my prayer life I use pray, praise, repent, ask, yield.
Yielding is where I go.
This isn't my will or my way,but that's okay.
(18:13):
So those are my takeaways.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
That's really good, I think, just being reminded to
pray for people that were havingdifficulty honoring and really
putting in that work and thatcould be probably not just
praying once.
I find that I need to prayabout things a lot more and
asking God to really change myheart towards people that I
(18:38):
don't feel a lot of honor for.
So just making that asignificant prayer point, like
who's really hard for me to love, put them at the top of my
prayer list and just say, god,can you do a work in my heart,
in my heart, right that, changewho I am inside.
Because, like Zach said, god,like I, was minted with the
(19:03):
image of God and I want to givethat very thing back to Him as a
way of saying I love you.
And so doing that hard heartwork I think goes a long way.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah.
What really stood out to me waswhen Zach said Grace alone
becomes compromise, truth alonebecomes cruelty.
Jesus stood on both yeah, and Iwas like oh that's a mic drop
yeah.
I just the parts in Mark andother stories where Jesus, you
know, really kind of puts thescrews to.
(19:42):
You know, some of the leaders.
I'm always like give me somepopcorn.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
This is great you know I love this, leaders.
I'm always like give me somepopcorn.
This is great.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You know I love this, but he does it so simply and so
plainly, and why can't I dothat?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You know so that's.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
that's my thing to work on, standing on both grace
and truth, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It's good.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, well, thank you guys so much for being
here today.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
We're looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Greg, you're preaching this weekend, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I just would say dad's out there.
I come this weekend, not forwe're going to have a lot of fun
stuff, but really it's going tobe an honor, honoring message
for for dads, especially thatthat are doing that, but but
also all those in authority.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So it'll be a great weekend to come as a dad, I
authority, so it'll be a greatweekend to come.
As a dad, I'm excited.
Until then, let's keep livingour faith beyond Sunday.
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive into oursermon series and see what we're
taking beyond Sunday.
My name is Dena Newsom and I amecstatic to have some great
guests today.
Go ahead, introduce yourselves,guys.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, I'm Julie Easley.
I'm the executive director hereat King of Kings.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And I'm Greg Griffith , the lead pastor, and excited
to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I'm so happy to have you.
So I don't know if you guysknow this, but this week is
Superman week international.
Superman week.
Yeah, I didn't even know thatwas a thing.
No me either.
So my question for you is ifyou had a superpower, what would
it be and why?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, just dealing with all the construction around
Omaha, it's flying.
I just want to zoom overeverything that is slowing me
down.
Yes, goodbye, leave the trafficbehind.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah, mine would be teleportation, like I just think
where I want to be and I'mthere, like right now I would be
on an Island in Jamaica and nowI'd be on an.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Island in Thailand Island hopping?
Yeah, I would.
I would love to be able to likemove things with my mind that
seems, you know.
I don't have to get up and walkacross the room, I can just
that would come in handy whenyou want to reconfigure your
furniture.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, Well, if you have enough faith, you can.
You're just not there yet, Dina.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm working on it.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Someday I'll get there.
I thought that would always beconvenient when my kids were
little if I could just mentallypick them up and take them away
from whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Instead of chasing them around.
Yeah, love it.
Well, we just had our secondweek of this Honor Code series,
and so what really spoke to youguys?
What are you taking beyondSunday?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I think, probably the overarching theme for me was
that Jesus is always asking forthe greater thing, which is our
hearts.
So you know, we could befulfilling kind of the letter of
the law.
But if the spirit of the lawand how we feel in our hearts
isn't in accordance with, like,his will and his desire for us,
(02:18):
we're not giving him thegreatest gift.
And so if we honor people justwith our words but not really
with our hearts, and if we'renot surrendering our hearts
entirely to God, jesus is askingfor more.
That's what he really wants.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, for me, what came away is just a reminder of
we have a call to honor thosewho are an authority over us,
and for me, what I reallythought about is you know, I
think naturally we think aboutpolice, military, government
officials, but there's so manyothers that have authority over
us that we've actually evengiven the ability to have
(02:55):
authority over us the bank thatowns our home loan, the car
dealership that owns our carloan, our boss.
You know, when we giveourselves or we give authority
away to a coworker or a friend,or when we join in a team
collaborative effort, we give upmy way and say it's got to be
our way.
And so just a reminder thatwe're called to submit to all
(03:18):
authority, whether large orsmall, and that really does
honor one another in ourmarriages, in our parenting, in
our co-working and in everythingthat we do yeah, I really.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Um, I thought a lot about um zach talking about
being right in content but wrongin character in the way that we
say things, and that one'sreally been stern and stern in
my brain.
Yeah, that's good.
Social media is a prime exampleof that where people are taking
a stand for what they think areright, but maybe going about it
in the wrong way.
But that's just really whatI've been chewing on.
(03:53):
So Pastor Zach Zender openedthis week by doing a big coin
toss.
What's you guys' go-to heads ortails If somebody asks you to
flip a coin?
Do you have or do you just pick?
Whatever you feel at the moment?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I kind of vacillate back and forth.
If it's like this coin has beentossed a few times, I try to be
like, okay, they've done threeheads and one tail, so um.
But if it's the first time, Iusually pick tails.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I'm always heads, I'm always tails.
Oh wow, I'm out.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Oh wow, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
It's a good combo.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, so, zach's, the definition of honor that he is
working with through thismessage series is to pursue a
good reputation and show properrespect to others, and one of
the questions that he asks ishow do you honor authority when
it's different than you orpossibly different than God's
word?
And Greg, you kind of talkedabout the different authority
(04:48):
figures that we have in our life.
What's your thoughts on that?
How do we honor authority whenit's different than maybe how we
feel it should be?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
What I've been thinking about a lot is just
when I'm talking about someone,would I say that right to their
face?
If they were standing in frontof me, would I use this kind of
tone of voice?
What kind of language would Iuse?
And so, trying to think aboutwhen I'm talking or referring to
(05:19):
someone whether it be thepresident or someone that I'm
much closer to would I be sayingit in the exact same way if
they were right next to me?
Like I could have adisagreement with someone on
something and still be honoring,and it's okay to not agree
about everything, but how am Isaying it and how am I thinking
(05:40):
about that person?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, I think for me it comes down to quite a few
things I really look in andthink about like, how am I
showing honor to even those thatI don't agree with?
I have a friend.
She and I don't agree on somethings and I believe she's
(06:03):
biblically out of out of out ofscripture Um, she doesn't.
But one way I show honor is iswhen she's talking about it.
Um, I, I'm very careful of howI measure my words.
I don't need to try to win thefight, I don't even need a fight
, and so so I think the honorthat I try to give is it's not a
(06:23):
salvation issue, so I don'teven need a fight, and so I
think the honor that I try togive is it's not a salvation
issue, so I don't need to try tochange her mind.
I can say, yeah, that's notwhere I'm at, and if you ask me,
I'll tell you.
But if you're not asking, I'mgoing to keep my mouth shut and
I don't know that my silence issaying I agree, but it's saying
I love you and we don't need tohave a harsh feelings on one
(06:43):
another.
I also think it's important wejust see around the world Like
I'm.
I'm so I grew up where like andI'm an apolitical person,
that's just my style but if thepresident invited you to the
White House, it didn't matter ifyou were a Republican, democrat
, independent or Communist, youwere going, the invitation and I
(07:07):
kind of like I've been reallythinking about this lately of
like that invitation is one tohonor you by saying you're
invited to a place that noteveryone gets to, and then you
kind of dishonor.
They're trying to honor you andand I'm like man, when did we
(07:28):
get so so much that we?
One thing I'll be sharing thisweekend too is just honor is not
about what you've done or yourpersonage, it's about your
position sometimes.
And so, yeah, we just have tofigure out a way to honor better
and be able to share what wewant without dishonoring
everyone around us.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And I'm thinking about, like, when you're talking
about the conversation that yousometimes have with your friend
right Another way to honorpeople is just to listen without
thinking about how you're goingto respond but, just simply
listening to their whole storyperiod Without like, oh now,
what snappy comeback am I goingto have to this?
(08:12):
Just honoring people with goodlistening.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
That's what I thought of with this.
Is there's a saying that I sawthat's?
Are you listening to understandor are you listening to defend?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I will admit, many times in my life I was listening
to defend until I reallystarted thinking about that.
And how am I simply I don't.
That doesn't mean I'm listeningto agree that.
And how am I simply I don't?
That doesn't mean I'm listeningto agree, but I am honoring
that person by listening totheir story or their side or
their position or whatever it is, by just listening to
understand them better, andthat's going to help me honor
(08:47):
them more in the long run as afriend, as a coworker, as a boss
, as a neighbor, you know,because I'm going to know more
about them.
Yeah, instead of being so busybuilding my counter argument.
That's good.
So one of the things that Zachtalked about is how you stand
matters just as much as what youstand for.
(09:10):
How did that strike you or whatdid that make you think of?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I think it's an important piece here of like we
.
You know, if we're standing, andI kind of think about like our
body language.
If I'm standing and listening tosomeone and my arms are crossed
, I'm already saying I don't, Idon't agree, I'm not going to
honor you, Right, when, if I'mstanding with my arms down, and
(09:36):
and even there's even a spotwhere, if you're standing and
you open your palms out, it'skind of that I'm receiving where
you're at.
And and I think one of thethings that I think about is
it's really easy in our worldand our culture to to
unknowingly and unwillingly, butand culturally appropriately,
(09:58):
um, to dishonor children.
And by culturally appropriatelyI'm just meaning that we say
well, you're a kid, what do youknow?
But, man, when you show a kidhonor by listening to them, by
getting on their level, byhearing what they say and um, by
by helping them, I mean it justchanges the relationship and
changes where they're at.
And so you know, if you have aposition of defensiveness, of
(10:23):
anger, of I'm always right,you're always wrong, of you know
, I'm going to just tell you allthe facts and flood you with
facts and stats.
Honestly, it doesn't matterwhat you stand for, because no
one's going to want to hear whatyou have to say.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, when I think about how I stand, I think about
just my presence anywhere, soit could be in person or it
could be online.
Especially when I'm on socialmedia, I'm really aware of the
fact that for a number of myfriends, I may be the only
Christian that they actuallyknow as a human being, and I
(11:01):
feel that responsibility greatly.
How am I coming across?
Is it a spirit of love andkindness?
Right, and there's grace andtruth there?
So I'm not changing my beliefs,but how am I talking about
things that are important to meand what's that tone?
I just want to be such a goodcaretaker of that trust that I
(11:24):
feel like the Lord's given to meto be His representative out in
the world.
And then I do think thatconversations, personal
conversations, just go so muchfurther than little blurbs on
social media.
So if you really do want totalk to someone about a serious
issue where you have maybe somedifferences of opinion, I just
think the way to mediate that isin person, where they can see
(11:48):
you and hear your tone of voiceand you're actually looking at
them.
Again, that person to personmakes such a difference.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I think one of the things we're seeing this play
out right now.
I think most people, regardlessof your ideations, would say our
immigration system is broken,not fatally, but there's some
major flaws.
It's super expensive toimmigrate here, even if you're
doing it legally.
(12:16):
It takes a long time, anywherefrom seven to ten years to
become a citizen, and there'snot an easy path forward, um,
and and there's not an easy pathforward, um, but what's
happening in Los Angeles, withthe rioting and the destruction
of those in authority, thethefts of businesses that have
tried to and hired and done thatright, all the things that
(12:39):
they're trying to say they standfor what they're doing, really
says we're not, we're not goingto listen to you, you're not,
you're not helping the at all.
There is a way in our country toprotest in a way, illegally,
that says, hey, this is an issue, but but really, if you're, if
you're standing in a posture ofviolence, you're not really
(13:01):
standing for for anything thatwill bring about great change
and you're definitely nothonoring you're not honoring
those you're trying to help insome way and you're not honoring
those who are standingalongside of you and you're not
honoring the other side to hearand listen and say, okay, how do
we do this?
And so we're seeing some ofthis play out in our culture
right here, right now.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
That's really good.
Yeah, not honoring the otherside, that's a yeah, through
just your posture and, like yousaid, not honoring even the
people you're trying to help,right?
So part of the things that Zachread from the Bible was in Mark
and it was about how leaders atthat time kind of tried to trap
Jesus.
(13:43):
Talking about money, or talkingabout Caesar and stuff.
What do those passages make youthink of, or what does that
stir up in you?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Well, so this kind of goes back to my first point
about, like Jesus, always beinginterested in the state of our
heart.
I thought about how many timeshave I played gotcha with
someone in my conversations withthem, or tried to kind of set
them up so then I could put thescrews to them later on in the
conversation, or just delightingin someone that I don't agree
(14:17):
with being owned by someone elseDo you know what I'm saying?
And that like speaks to areally unhealthy part of my
heart that wants to win or tosee somebody else be put down
and my position be exalted.
And so I just thought, you knowI could be a Pharisee sometimes
, just looking to entrap peopleor own them somehow.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, I don't know that I could be a Pharisee, but
I could be a Sadducee for sure.
So, no, in all reality, as Ithought about that too, I think
we all try to trap Jesus all thetime, and I think we don't
recognize it necessarily, but Ithink anytime we say you know, I
know God wouldn't like this,but he just has to understand
(15:03):
We've trapped him right.
What we've really said is God,I know I've heard you love me,
and because you love me, eventhough your will says this, even
though your word says this, youjust got to know I can't do
that right now.
And so the trap is do youaccept me or not?
And it's doing the same thing.
It's a trap.
And so I found myself doing thatright, like, you know, whether
(15:27):
it was with my language, orwhether it was with my finances,
or whether it was with mydecisions, or the things that I
wanted to do or didn't want todo, or how I parent, right.
It was like, yeah, you know,god's just got to understand
this.
This is me and I'm a work inprogress.
And at that point, when we putGod in that position, we just
come to him and just say okay,here's the trap Do you love me
(15:49):
or do you not?
And it's doing the same thing.
And so I think we've all beenthere, we've all done that, and
a reminder is that we have a Godwho says you know, confess that
, receive forgiveness and repentfrom that.
It doesn't mean it's easy, itdoesn't mean it's going to be
perfect, but it is the plan.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
That's really good.
Yeah, all right, as we kind ofwrap up on this, what are your
takeaways from this message?
What are you looking forward toin the next couple?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, I think for me, my takeaway was it's just a
reminder that when I have a anissue with someone in authority,
I have to and this is this ismy prayer pattern I have to do
two things.
First, I have to talk to thatperson before I talk to others,
and especially before I putstuff online or anything like
that.
I'm, I'm, I become really,really careful of what I put
(16:42):
online.
Um, because I, I one, I don't.
I don't think anyone's everbeen persuaded from the other
side through a online post, andI know some might not like what
I'm about to say.
I think most of the time whenwe post something online, we
want everyone to tell us howgreat we are and how right we
are, and then, if someonedisagrees, then it just becomes
(17:05):
this mob and I don't see anyvalue in that.
So, have I talked to the personin the best way?
And then, two, I think there'sa yield spot on this of really
understanding and saying thisisn't my authority and that's
okay, and it may not be the wayI would have done it, it may not
be how I would want to do it,but it's not my authority.
(17:28):
Going back to what I said, wegive authority to others.
All the time we give authorityto our mortgage company and at
any time the mortgage companycan say we're calling your loan,
that's in the document, andeven if you owe $200,000, they
can say we need it now and youhave to pay it.
You can complain, you can cry,you can say it's not fair.
You've actually given thatauthority away already and
(17:51):
they're doing what they can do,and now most of the time they
don't.
But it's just that reminder forme of going.
I have to let go of the thingsI don't have authority over, and
that's yielding.
So in my prayer life I use pray, praise, repent, ask, yield.
Yielding is where I go.
This isn't my will or my way,but that's okay.
(18:13):
So those are my takeaways.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
That's really good, I think, just being reminded to
pray for people that were havingdifficulty honoring and really
putting in that work and thatcould be probably not just
praying once.
I find that I need to prayabout things a lot more and
asking God to really change myheart towards people that I
(18:38):
don't feel a lot of honor for.
So just making that asignificant prayer point, like
who's really hard for me to love, put them at the top of my
prayer list and just say, god,can you do a work in my heart,
in my heart, right that, changewho I am inside.
Because, like Zach said, god,like I, was minted with the
(19:03):
image of God and I want to givethat very thing back to Him as a
way of saying I love you.
And so doing that hard heartwork I think goes a long way.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah.
What really stood out to me waswhen Zach said Grace alone
becomes compromise, truth alonebecomes cruelty.
Jesus stood on both yeah, and Iwas like oh that's a mic drop
yeah.
I just the parts in Mark andother stories where Jesus, you
know, really kind of puts thescrews to.
(19:42):
You know, some of the leaders.
I'm always like give me somepopcorn.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
This is great you know I love this, leaders.
I'm always like give me somepopcorn.
This is great.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You know I love this, but he does it so simply and so
plainly, and why can't I dothat?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You know so that's.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
that's my thing to work on, standing on both grace
and truth, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It's good.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, well, thank you guys so much for being
here today.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
We're looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Greg, you're preaching this weekend, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I just would say dad's out there.
I come this weekend, not forwe're going to have a lot of fun
stuff, but really it's going tobe an honor, honoring message
for for dads, especially thatthat are doing that, but but
also all those in authority.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So it'll be a great weekend to come as a dad, I
authority, so it'll be a greatweekend to come.
As a dad, I'm excited.
Until then, let's keep livingour faith beyond Sunday.
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