October 10, 2025 • 28 mins
Dina, Julie, and Pastor Greg talk about what it really means to give first and how generosity shapes our hearts toward God. From honest conversations about tithing and trust to practical steps like the 40-Day Giving Challenge, they explore how releasing what we hold tightly—money, time, or attention—opens the door to deeper faith and lasting joy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:06):
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive a littlebit deeper into our message
series and see what we're takingBeyond Sunday.
My name is Dina Newsome, and Ihave some wonderful leader
guests today, our two headhonchos.
Go ahead and introduceyourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
Hi, I'm Julie Easley, the executive director
here at King of Kings.
And I'm Greg Griffith.
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
Yeah, so we are diving into the first week of
Giving Challenge, the brand newred letter challenge book that
we are looking into that our ownpastor Zach Zender has written
and is speaking on.
And in light of this GivingChallenge, where we're talking
about giving and we are talkinga little about money, my opening
question for you guys is what'sa childhood memory about money
(00:51):
that you have?
It can be good, it can be like ahorrifying nightmare.
What's a childhood memory ofmoney that you can think of?
Your childhood or maybe yourkids, if you okay, so this
happened fairly recently.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
So my great-grandmother used to send
my kids' birthday money in acard, and you know, they would
spend it.
And I had saved all of thosecards.
And for some reason, I was justgoing through a bunch of boxes
and I opened up a card and found20 bucks that had been given to
(01:26):
Tom when he turned one.
So I gave it to him 25 yearslater, and he I said, spend it
carefully.
He said, I'm not spending this,I'm saving it.
It's from my great grandma.
So it's pretty cute and fun.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah, I had an uncle, uncle Ralph, and every
time he would come by, he wouldalways just give every kid that
was in the area um of thefamily, he'd give them a dollar
and just say, Here you go.
This is ice cream money.
Make sure you go get ice cream.
So um I just always rememberthat, and that was fun.
And it was always a fun shinydollar or you know, fun crisp
(02:02):
dollar bill.
And so yeah, it was cool.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Um, when my oldest daughter was little, um, with
the church that we went to atthe time, my dad was an usher
and he, so they would pass thebaskets and she called him papa.
And so this one day she was, shewould always have her little
quarter she would get to put inthe baskets, and she was so
excited to put that quarter inthe baskets.
And then this day, grandpa waspassing the baskets, and she was
(02:26):
just enamored with that.
And the whole time in theservice, like while they're
walking around, she's like, Yougot it, Papa, you got the
basket, you got it, Papa, yougot the money.
Don't drop the money, Papa.
That's so sweet.
I got my money, Papa.
Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
It was mortifying for me as a parent at the time,
but I look back on it now withmuch love.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
100%.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
So um, Zach was really open about talking about
this series, may make us alittle bit uncomfortable when we
talk about giving.
And that is something that maybewe are gonna feel called out on.
And I really liked um he kind ofopened with uh talking about a
science experiment that someonehad done with these birds and
the African grays versus theblue-headed macaws.
(03:14):
How did that experiment speak toyou?
Or what did what did it make youthink of?
For me, I really could relate tothe um the blue-headed macaws,
where I think I would, you know,instinctively on my own if I
wasn't thinking of others, justI'm just gonna keep that little
(03:35):
nut or little treat for myself.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
I agree.
I mean, I I think aboutgenerosity is something that I
need to, it's probably not inalways instinctual.
Sometimes it is, but um, it'ssomething I really need to think
about.
So I was impressed by thosebirds who probably don't have
the thinking skills of a human,just being so willing to give.
And like all almost all of themdid.
(04:01):
But um, yeah, it's somethingit's kind of a it's kind of an
indictment.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
Yeah, and for me, I mean, my lead spiritual gift is
generosity.
Is that and so um you know,honestly, generosity is not
something I struggle with um atall uh with my own or anything
like that.
I don't, I I really, reallydon't think about it too much.
So so I I found it interestingthat um there are other birds in
(04:27):
that.
And I do think we see otherspots in this Canadian geese.
Um, you know, if if one isinjured, uh one from the flock
will always drop back and staywith it while it heals, and then
and then when it recovers, thenboth will take back off and head
back to where they were goingand then rejoin their group.
And so, you know, I think Godalways builds within creation
(04:53):
all of us of this desire oftogetherness in some way.
And so, um, so yeah, so I Idon't know.
I think the bird thing I foundinteresting.
I'm not sure that I gave muchmore thought to it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
It's just because you're not a bird person.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
I don't like birds.
I I own two, but I don't likethem.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
So one of the statements that Pastor Zach made
was at its core generosity isdiscipleship.
He said, It's impossible to be astingy disciple.
How did that strike you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, I I mean it's it's true.
I mean, I think right at thecore of a disciple, it means
that we are always pointingpeople and bringing people
closer to Jesus and living likeJesus.
Um and and Jesus is reminding usthat this whole world, he is the
creator, God is the creator, weare the created, um, everything
(05:47):
belongs to him.
Genesis one is I mean, we'redoing it now.
We spent three weeks in justGenesis one, and it's just a
reminder of that um God issetting us out as Yahweh Elohim,
the Lord your God, who issovereign over all things.
And so for a disciple, uh we wehave to be a disciple who's
(06:09):
following and being more likeJesus and generous, knowing that
none of this is ours, whetherit's money, whether it's our
families, everything it's all agift and entrusted.
So for sure, um you you youcan't, and this is even our
faith.
If it's like, well, this is myfaith, but I don't share it
because I'm afraid of what'sgoing to happen.
It's really hard to say you're adisciple.
(06:31):
It really is.
It doesn't mean you have toshout from the rooftops, but
man, we do have to live our andshare our faith.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Yeah, I mean, along those lines, I think what Zach
had described a disciple as issomeone who's being like and
doing like their leader.
Well, Jesus was just theultimate giver of his life, but
also on earth of his time.
And right, he wasn't hoardingmoney for himself.
He wasn't saying, here's allthis private time that I need.
(07:00):
Um, he was just always giving.
And then ultimately we see thaton the cross.
So Jesus was is a generousgiver, the ultimate and generous
givers.
And so if we want to be and dolike him, we need to do the
same.
unknown (07:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
That's really good.
Being um generous is not alwaysone of the first things I think
of when I think of being adisciple.
I think of being kind and caringand empathetic and and um joyful
and those type of things.
But this was a good reminder forme of oh, how valuable and how
important that is.
And like you said, that it wasall what that Jesus was, all
(07:33):
generosity.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
So well, and it was the early church, right?
So I mean it says acts, right?
That they came and gaveeverything so that no one had
any need amongst them.
And so, right, when we'retalking about, and oops, the
acts church is not the churchthen, it's the church now.
And so, right, how are we livingthat out for sure?
SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
So, one of the verses that Pastor Zach
mentioned was Matthew 6, 21, forwhere your treasure is, there
your heart will be also.
How do you reflect this in yourown life, or how do you see this
in your in your daily life?
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah, for me, it's not as much about giving or
money.
It's for me personally, it'sself.
So my treasure is I I lovemyself.
I can be, I can be tremendouslyselfish.
Um, and so um, so for me, I'malways fighting against that.
Of my treasure needs to be tolove my neighbors as I love
(08:32):
myself.
Um, a lot of times when I am outof my spiritual rhythms and
routines, and I'm out of arhythm of living for for Jesus
and being like my leader andfollowing my leader, um, it will
be love myself, not love myneighbors as myself.
So so that it is very true.
(08:54):
Um, I think your your treasureis where your heart will be.
It's what is your treasure?
unknown (08:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Yeah.
If I think about it in regardsto money, I think about tithes
and offerings and wanting to befaithful in giving a tithe to
the church and then giving overand above.
And when I do that, I you youfeel more naturally invested in
what's happening.
You want to see money used well.
(09:23):
You want to see it being usedfor the biggest impact.
And for me and my job here atthe church, it's trying to
ensure that we're we're doingthose kinds of things.
Um, and then, you know, otherplaces where we're giving, like
we sponsor a child who's inGuatemala.
And I'm interested in what'sgoing on there and what's going
(09:46):
on in his life.
I mean, all of those thingsspeak to, you know, I've put my
treasure, some of my treasurethere, and I really care.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Yeah.
Um, at my last job, I and acoworker of mine would do some
consulting for churches where wewould look at um ways to improve
maybe like a side business forthem to improve their income
that they would have in theirchurch.
And one of the first things thatmy coworker would say is, let me
see your budget, because that'sgoing to tell me where your
values are, you know, whatyou're putting the most money
(10:16):
into.
And that doesn't equate dollarfor dollar because you have
building upkeep and you havestaffing that you have to pay
for that are often largeexpenditures.
But when he was looking atministry breakdowns, they would
say, Oh, we really value kids'ministry, but they would have a
very, very small budget for itand very large budgets for maybe
other ministries.
And he would say, This is nottelling me the same thing that
(10:39):
you're telling me.
And he would reflect on thisverse, you know, that this is
what you're, you know, God hasgiven you this money to utilize
as a church to share him withyour community and how are you
best using your resources in it,and really would dive into this
verse and looking at thatthrough those eyes.
And so that's what I keptthinking of when Zach was
talking about that.
(10:59):
I don't know how it reallyreflects for me in my daily
life.
I I I try to be very, I'm verylogistical.
So, like I've gotten my Xdollars that that's what goes
here, and then you know, my Xtime that that's what goes here.
Like I'm just kind of parceledit all out that way.
And I know some people are veryemotional about their giving, or
like he was talking about yougive when you feel stirred or
(11:22):
stuff.
And that was not me.
I'm very like, okay, it says10%.
I'm gonna strive for my 10%.
And sometimes I can make it andsometimes I can't make it, you
know, depending on what job Ihave or what my life uh style
is.
But um, I really like just thathe focused so much on that and
really brought it back to Ithink this is a verse that we
(11:42):
overlook sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
I had a predecessor who I it wasn't for a healthy
reason in any stretch of theimagination, but it it's pretty
cool.
And then it led me to kind of adifferent thought, which was he
would he would give every weekand he would increase his giving
each week by one penny.
And the reason he did that is hedidn't trust actually that they
(12:04):
were always uh tracking andgiving him credit for his
giving.
Uh so he knew then that that theend of the year, if it was all
the it would go one through 52.
Um, and then and then, but whatended up happening was he would
just continue to roll that over.
And over time, he ended up um II I think I think somewhere I I
(12:26):
think he was probably makingthis was in the early 2000s,
probably making about 70,000 ayear, um, and giving about
18,000 a year.
Um, and and again, by a onepenny increment, it was never,
and again, all four of his kidswent to private school.
He paid for their colleges, hehad cars, he had, you know, but
(12:49):
but he just had learned to liveon what he had, but always was
giving.
And this is the Malachi IIIprinciple.
And then for me, one of thethings I always strive to think
about, and we're we're reallyclose.
I'm like probably within a fewyears of being able to do this,
of that what it will be likewhen the largest check or the
(13:10):
largest amount given each monthwill be to my church.
And uh, and and I I can't waitfor that day.
Like, that will be such acelebratory day to me to say,
like, truly, the most I'm givingis giving to a church I love.
And what I love about God'sbiblical value of tithing and
generosity and of giving is itreally is a loss of control.
(13:34):
We don't have the ability whenwe give to a church to go, you
have to use money this way.
Or I mean, what we're reallysaying is we're saying you're
carrying us out in the kingdomof God, and I trust God.
Not not necessarily even I trustyou, I trust God to be to be
good.
Now, those who work in churchesand those who are nonprofits
(13:55):
have a responsibility, right?
And so great for them is theaccountability to the Lord uh on
that.
And so I I love it.
I love the whole process.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
I remember the day when my dad came and told us,
and I was probably a teenager atthe time, where he said, you
know what, this year I'mactually gonna give 10% of my
income to our church.
Like, and he was so proud.
And I'm sure in my teenagesnottiness, I was like, Oh, big
deal.
Can I buy this now?
You know, but I think of thatoften, like that that was a
moment he wanted to come andshare with us that that was a
(14:28):
milestone for him.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Yes, that's pretty cool that he shared that.
I yeah, that's yeah, I I I thinkas as parents who are raising
disciples, we have to be openwith our children about our
faith journey, including ourfinances.
Um, finances I don't think areprivate.
I I think when we're talkingabout giving, I think it's it's
(14:49):
something that we don't bragabout, but it it's it is
something that we do share andwe say, you know what, as a as a
tither, here's the blessingsI've received.
And it's not always financial,um, but it certainly is
spiritual and emotional.
SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
Where do you think the the shame comes from in
talking about money?
Or I don't know if it would beshame or, you know, where people
are embarrassed to talk abouttheir giving or to talk about
specific dollar amounts.
What do you think?
I mean, uh I know it comes fromSatan, but you know, like what
do you what how do we think thisgrew so much?
Because I feel like it'sdifferent now than it was 20
(15:24):
years ago or 20 years beforethat.
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Yeah.
I I I think, well, one, I Ithink we live in such a
comparison society.
Um, and I think that's just beenexasperated over the last 20
years.
Um, and I will say thiscomparison is from Satan.
The moment I compare myself tosomeone else, that is not by
God.
Um, I'm never called to comparebecause first of all, God has
(15:48):
gifted me in ways that areperfect for his kingdom and for
me to live that and out.
And my gifts are gonna bedifferent than other people's
gifts.
Okay.
And and other people are gonnahave greater gifts.
Okay.
And other people are gonna havegreater responsibilities than I
do.
And if I want to look and say, Ineed to have I I I don't I don't
think equality is is biblical,right?
(16:10):
I am in in this respect, likeGod gives to everyone where
they're called and gifted andsuited to do the best for his
kingdom.
Um my pinky does not have thesame responsibility as my heart.
Equally valuable, but differentroles and responsibilities.
And I love both greatly.
(16:30):
I would not want to give up myheart.
I would not want to give up mypinky.
Right?
But but so so I think I thinksome of that is it is all from
Satan.
And so the comparison thing isis there and it's real.
I also hate when people say it'snot equal gifts, it's equal
sacrifice, because that's nottrue either.
(16:51):
Right?
The sacrifice of Dhaka in Ugandathat gave us a chicken was way
more than a sacrifice that Imake when I say, you know, I'm
gonna be a part of let's go, andwe're not gonna do a bunch of
vacations this year.
Like, that's a sacrificeselfishly on my side, but in no
(17:13):
way did I say, My kids are notgonna have two eggs for the next
couple of days or until wereplace that chicken, and we're
gonna have to figure out how tofind the eggs.
But I love these people who cameto my house, so I'm gonna give
them a live chicken.
Like, so so the sacrifice of thewidow's might versus the rich
(17:33):
person who says, Yeah, this yearI'm gonna give this amount, but
it doesn't.
I actually just heard a storyabout this.
A guy, a guy said his um a guygave a very large gift to their
church and and he said, Thankyou, thank you, thank you.
And finally, the guy said,Please stop saying thank you.
And he goes, Why?
And he goes, Because it reallywasn't that much of a sacrifice
(17:54):
for me.
And he goes, Well then you needto pray about what you need to
give so that my thank youactually matters.
And I thought, wow, that'sthat's true.
SPEAKER_02 (18:02):
Yeah, that's convicting.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Well awareness, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Yes, I don't know if we necessarily always feel
ashamed about money, but I dothink that it's something that
people can be pretty privateabout because it is a such a
discipleship measure for thebeliever.
And if you feel like I'm notdoing this, you probably don't
(18:28):
want to talk about it very much.
I was listening to a podcastwhere someone said, you know,
when you're putting your handtowards a hot stove, you feel
the heat and you want to pull ityour hand away.
And sometimes if we're we're notgiving sacrificially, our
instinct is not to get closer tothat fire of conviction, it's to
move away.
(18:48):
And I think money is somethingthat can really be a snare and
an entrapment.
I and I'm not pointing thefinger at anybody else.
I'm talking to myself as well.
unknown (19:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:01):
So another thing that Zach talked about was he
asked a question.
What if the key to gaining agodlike heart is being generous
first?
How do you hope people respondto that question?
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
I think just trusting in the goodness of God
and that the things that he asksof us are not for our detriment,
but only for our benefit and forour flourishing.
So when he commands us to be agenerous people and to give,
he's doing that because he knowswhat's best for our hearts and
how we'll best flourish in life.
(19:39):
So he's not saying, hey, I wantyou to sacrifice so that you're
miserable.
He's saying, I want you tosacrifice so that you can know
the joy that I experienced whenI sacrificed everything for you.
SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
Yeah, don't hear me when I say this.
I I do believe this is a this isa giving series and uh the book
is about giving.
So one thing though isgenerosity is not just about
finances.
Um Tim Keller uh said that asAmericans, we can probably get
(20:13):
we actually may even be more ofa generous nation than we'd like
to give credit for.
Right.
So this is um especiallymillennials are getting this.
Um this is why at the grocerystores, at your banks, right, do
you wanna do you wanna round up?
Right.
And so so generosity isfinancially is flourishing,
(20:34):
right?
Tithing's different, and sothat's a that's generosity and
tithing are not synonyms.
Um but but generosity also ismore than finances.
And an area that I find wherefor me that I'm really working
on, as Tim Keller was talkingabout, is he said, he said, I
think, and he was talking aboutNew Yorkers, and I identified
(20:54):
with this, not because I'm a NewYorker, um, but uh he said he
said here in New York, we needto be generous with our time.
Our time is actually our mostvaluable commodity.
And so we say, How are youdoing?
but we don't really want toknow.
We walk past you and say, hello,but please don't stop me and
(21:18):
say, Hey, I would love to tellyou something about my heart.
And I find myself in a phonecall or in a conversation or
with things, and my time iswhere I need to start responding
generously greater first.
And so I I think I hope peoplewould say, where is God
(21:41):
challenging them in generosityoutside of financial as well?
But where in generosity is Godchallenging them to be generous
with whatever their mostvaluable commodity is?
And for me, right now, my mostvaluable commodity is time.
Not because I'm busy, butbecause I try to maximize as
much as I can throughout a daywith everything that I'm doing.
(22:05):
And so um sometimes I can findmyself saying, ooh, that doesn't
fit into my schedule of the day.
And yet if I give thatgenerously first, um, I find my
day's actually been better thanI would have ever planned.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
And usually there's room for it then.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
There there always there always is room, there
always is room.
I was just talking to someoneabout this, right?
Like, I don't know, it's alittle tight.
Maybe I'm gonna soap box.
Maybe you guys can edit this outif you want.
But you know, we talk work-lifebalance, and I'm always like,
what does that mean?
Right?
And then I and then I actuallydid the math.
Am I right, Julie?
You would probably know.
Are there 122 hours in a week?
(22:43):
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
I'm so bad at math.
I am the wrong person to ask.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
But if I recall, I believe I saw somewhere that
there's like 122 hours.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
168 total hours, like 24 hours.
Okay, great.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
168, even better for me.
So I want to work.
Think about this for a minute.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Maybe it's 122 taking out sleeping.
Okay, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
But either way, like at 168 hours.
So if my work week is 40 hours aweek, I've got four times that.
Right?
Like four times that I'm notworking.
Like, so I I like I'm startingto struggle in my head of going,
like, what is my work lifebalance wrong?
(23:28):
Like, because it looks like thelife balance is actually out of
balance.
Right?
And so, yes, there is alwaystime.
Yeah, I mean, at the end of theday, like there is always time.
And so, like, when I go, Ididn't have time this week to
work out, there were 122 extrahours.
What did I do?
Like, what do you mean I didn'thave time?
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Right.
Yeah, that's where the phone canbe such a trap.
I mean, think about howproductive people were 100 years
ago because they didn't have thephase.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Yeah, an hour goes by and I watch three cat videos
and a Jimmy Fallon joke orsomething.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Was it Michael Scott who said he saw YouTube and like
spent five days watching catvideos?
Yeah.
Yeah, YouTube.
SPEAKER_02 (24:14):
Cat videos are amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
That's not my spiritual weakness, but maybe I
need to check out some othervideos.
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (24:27):
Um, okay, so this is week one of six that we're gonna
be diving into this, and ourConnect groups are looking at
it.
People are hopefully goingthrough it in their homes.
What do you really want peopleto take from this series?
And what really, like, what'syour final takeaways from this
first message?
Or as we kick off, what are youhoping for our members to really
(24:47):
like just dive in and and andknow more about this?
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
I think just that people wouldn't take their
treasure, whatever it is,treasure of time, treasure of
money, treasure of um gifts thatGod's given to you, talents and
abilities, and putting them inthe places where God's heart is
so our hearts can look more likehis.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Yeah, I I would invite and encourage everyone to
listen to the prompt that theLord is giving to you.
And I think that in this, Godwill speak to you over the next
40 days how to be generous thatwill um make a life greater in
(25:34):
there.
Um, I was convicted recentlywhen someone was telling me how
he tries to live each day withgrace for every person, and he
was having a bad day and thingsweren't going well, and the guy
at the grocery store wasn'tbeing kind to him, and he was so
mad he was going to go tell amanager.
And right before he got to themanager, he just heard a prompt
(25:55):
from God who said, Go back.
And he went back to the man andhe said, Sir, and the guy looks
at him and goes, What do youwant now?
And he goes, I need to tell youI'm sorry.
I came in with a bad attitudeand I put that on you.
And he said, The guy balled hisfists up and he covered his face
(26:16):
and he brought his fist down andhe said, I'm really new at this.
I forgive you.
And and and he listened to theprompt of God to be generous
with the grace from God.
And that allowed someone to beable to start to use the grace
of God in his life.
(26:37):
And so I really want to seepeople I want to see me like
like listening to the voice ofGod and then actually doing it,
not ignoring it, and not and notbeing selfish, but being
generous to what God's callingme to do.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Yeah, I really liked what Zach talked about, what the
world says versus what Jesussaid.
And I wrote them down and I'mgonna read them.
So give me a second.
But I I just listening to thatprompting, here it is.
Like this is literally what thescripture says.
And the world says, protectwhat's yours and spend it while
you have it.
Give only if there's somethingin it for you, and that money is
your security equals security.
(27:14):
But Jesus says it is moreblessed to give than to receive.
Life does not consist in anabundance of possessions, to
whom much is given, much will berequired.
You cannot serve both God andmoney.
And what good is it for someoneto gain the whole world yet
forfeit their soul?
I really liked those.
And I thought, okay, that's whatI'm gonna like.
(27:35):
I wrote them down so I can keepit on my desk as we go through
this series and really find,okay, how am I listening to
those?
How am I working out those in myown life?
What am I focusing on that Jesussays that is not what the world
says?
Because it's so easy just tolisten to the world.
Wow.
Any other final takeaways as wewrap up?
(27:58):
Looking looking forward to therest of the series, and we'll
hear more about the GivingChallenge.
Until then, let's keep livingour faith beyond Sunday.
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we dive a littlebit deeper into our message
series and see what we're takingBeyond Sunday.
My name is Dina Newsome, and Ihave some wonderful leader
guests today, our two headhonchos.
Go ahead and introduceyourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
Hi, I'm Julie Easley, the executive director
here at King of Kings.
And I'm Greg Griffith.
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
Yeah, so we are diving into the first week of
Giving Challenge, the brand newred letter challenge book that
we are looking into that our ownpastor Zach Zender has written
and is speaking on.
And in light of this GivingChallenge, where we're talking
about giving and we are talkinga little about money, my opening
question for you guys is what'sa childhood memory about money
(00:51):
that you have?
It can be good, it can be like ahorrifying nightmare.
What's a childhood memory ofmoney that you can think of?
Your childhood or maybe yourkids, if you okay, so this
happened fairly recently.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
So my great-grandmother used to send
my kids' birthday money in acard, and you know, they would
spend it.
And I had saved all of thosecards.
And for some reason, I was justgoing through a bunch of boxes
and I opened up a card and found20 bucks that had been given to
(01:26):
Tom when he turned one.
So I gave it to him 25 yearslater, and he I said, spend it
carefully.
He said, I'm not spending this,I'm saving it.
It's from my great grandma.
So it's pretty cute and fun.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah, I had an uncle, uncle Ralph, and every
time he would come by, he wouldalways just give every kid that
was in the area um of thefamily, he'd give them a dollar
and just say, Here you go.
This is ice cream money.
Make sure you go get ice cream.
So um I just always rememberthat, and that was fun.
And it was always a fun shinydollar or you know, fun crisp
(02:02):
dollar bill.
And so yeah, it was cool.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Um, when my oldest daughter was little, um, with
the church that we went to atthe time, my dad was an usher
and he, so they would pass thebaskets and she called him papa.
And so this one day she was, shewould always have her little
quarter she would get to put inthe baskets, and she was so
excited to put that quarter inthe baskets.
And then this day, grandpa waspassing the baskets, and she was
(02:26):
just enamored with that.
And the whole time in theservice, like while they're
walking around, she's like, Yougot it, Papa, you got the
basket, you got it, Papa, yougot the money.
Don't drop the money, Papa.
That's so sweet.
I got my money, Papa.
Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
It was mortifying for me as a parent at the time,
but I look back on it now withmuch love.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
100%.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
So um, Zach was really open about talking about
this series, may make us alittle bit uncomfortable when we
talk about giving.
And that is something that maybewe are gonna feel called out on.
And I really liked um he kind ofopened with uh talking about a
science experiment that someonehad done with these birds and
the African grays versus theblue-headed macaws.
(03:14):
How did that experiment speak toyou?
Or what did what did it make youthink of?
For me, I really could relate tothe um the blue-headed macaws,
where I think I would, you know,instinctively on my own if I
wasn't thinking of others, justI'm just gonna keep that little
(03:35):
nut or little treat for myself.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
I agree.
I mean, I I think aboutgenerosity is something that I
need to, it's probably not inalways instinctual.
Sometimes it is, but um, it'ssomething I really need to think
about.
So I was impressed by thosebirds who probably don't have
the thinking skills of a human,just being so willing to give.
And like all almost all of themdid.
(04:01):
But um, yeah, it's somethingit's kind of a it's kind of an
indictment.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
Yeah, and for me, I mean, my lead spiritual gift is
generosity.
Is that and so um you know,honestly, generosity is not
something I struggle with um atall uh with my own or anything
like that.
I don't, I I really, reallydon't think about it too much.
So so I I found it interestingthat um there are other birds in
(04:27):
that.
And I do think we see otherspots in this Canadian geese.
Um, you know, if if one isinjured, uh one from the flock
will always drop back and staywith it while it heals, and then
and then when it recovers, thenboth will take back off and head
back to where they were goingand then rejoin their group.
And so, you know, I think Godalways builds within creation
(04:53):
all of us of this desire oftogetherness in some way.
And so, um, so yeah, so I Idon't know.
I think the bird thing I foundinteresting.
I'm not sure that I gave muchmore thought to it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
It's just because you're not a bird person.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
I don't like birds.
I I own two, but I don't likethem.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
So one of the statements that Pastor Zach made
was at its core generosity isdiscipleship.
He said, It's impossible to be astingy disciple.
How did that strike you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, I I mean it's it's true.
I mean, I think right at thecore of a disciple, it means
that we are always pointingpeople and bringing people
closer to Jesus and living likeJesus.
Um and and Jesus is reminding usthat this whole world, he is the
creator, God is the creator, weare the created, um, everything
(05:47):
belongs to him.
Genesis one is I mean, we'redoing it now.
We spent three weeks in justGenesis one, and it's just a
reminder of that um God issetting us out as Yahweh Elohim,
the Lord your God, who issovereign over all things.
And so for a disciple, uh we wehave to be a disciple who's
(06:09):
following and being more likeJesus and generous, knowing that
none of this is ours, whetherit's money, whether it's our
families, everything it's all agift and entrusted.
So for sure, um you you youcan't, and this is even our
faith.
If it's like, well, this is myfaith, but I don't share it
because I'm afraid of what'sgoing to happen.
It's really hard to say you're adisciple.
(06:31):
It really is.
It doesn't mean you have toshout from the rooftops, but
man, we do have to live our andshare our faith.
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Yeah, I mean, along those lines, I think what Zach
had described a disciple as issomeone who's being like and
doing like their leader.
Well, Jesus was just theultimate giver of his life, but
also on earth of his time.
And right, he wasn't hoardingmoney for himself.
He wasn't saying, here's allthis private time that I need.
(07:00):
Um, he was just always giving.
And then ultimately we see thaton the cross.
So Jesus was is a generousgiver, the ultimate and generous
givers.
And so if we want to be and dolike him, we need to do the
same.
unknown (07:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
That's really good.
Being um generous is not alwaysone of the first things I think
of when I think of being adisciple.
I think of being kind and caringand empathetic and and um joyful
and those type of things.
But this was a good reminder forme of oh, how valuable and how
important that is.
And like you said, that it wasall what that Jesus was, all
(07:33):
generosity.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
So well, and it was the early church, right?
So I mean it says acts, right?
That they came and gaveeverything so that no one had
any need amongst them.
And so, right, when we'retalking about, and oops, the
acts church is not the churchthen, it's the church now.
And so, right, how are we livingthat out for sure?
SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
So, one of the verses that Pastor Zach
mentioned was Matthew 6, 21, forwhere your treasure is, there
your heart will be also.
How do you reflect this in yourown life, or how do you see this
in your in your daily life?
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah, for me, it's not as much about giving or
money.
It's for me personally, it'sself.
So my treasure is I I lovemyself.
I can be, I can be tremendouslyselfish.
Um, and so um, so for me, I'malways fighting against that.
Of my treasure needs to be tolove my neighbors as I love
(08:32):
myself.
Um, a lot of times when I am outof my spiritual rhythms and
routines, and I'm out of arhythm of living for for Jesus
and being like my leader andfollowing my leader, um, it will
be love myself, not love myneighbors as myself.
So so that it is very true.
(08:54):
Um, I think your your treasureis where your heart will be.
It's what is your treasure?
unknown (08:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Yeah.
If I think about it in regardsto money, I think about tithes
and offerings and wanting to befaithful in giving a tithe to
the church and then giving overand above.
And when I do that, I you youfeel more naturally invested in
what's happening.
You want to see money used well.
(09:23):
You want to see it being usedfor the biggest impact.
And for me and my job here atthe church, it's trying to
ensure that we're we're doingthose kinds of things.
Um, and then, you know, otherplaces where we're giving, like
we sponsor a child who's inGuatemala.
And I'm interested in what'sgoing on there and what's going
(09:46):
on in his life.
I mean, all of those thingsspeak to, you know, I've put my
treasure, some of my treasurethere, and I really care.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Yeah.
Um, at my last job, I and acoworker of mine would do some
consulting for churches where wewould look at um ways to improve
maybe like a side business forthem to improve their income
that they would have in theirchurch.
And one of the first things thatmy coworker would say is, let me
see your budget, because that'sgoing to tell me where your
values are, you know, whatyou're putting the most money
(10:16):
into.
And that doesn't equate dollarfor dollar because you have
building upkeep and you havestaffing that you have to pay
for that are often largeexpenditures.
But when he was looking atministry breakdowns, they would
say, Oh, we really value kids'ministry, but they would have a
very, very small budget for itand very large budgets for maybe
other ministries.
And he would say, This is nottelling me the same thing that
(10:39):
you're telling me.
And he would reflect on thisverse, you know, that this is
what you're, you know, God hasgiven you this money to utilize
as a church to share him withyour community and how are you
best using your resources in it,and really would dive into this
verse and looking at thatthrough those eyes.
And so that's what I keptthinking of when Zach was
talking about that.
(10:59):
I don't know how it reallyreflects for me in my daily
life.
I I I try to be very, I'm verylogistical.
So, like I've gotten my Xdollars that that's what goes
here, and then you know, my Xtime that that's what goes here.
Like I'm just kind of parceledit all out that way.
And I know some people are veryemotional about their giving, or
like he was talking about yougive when you feel stirred or
(11:22):
stuff.
And that was not me.
I'm very like, okay, it says10%.
I'm gonna strive for my 10%.
And sometimes I can make it andsometimes I can't make it, you
know, depending on what job Ihave or what my life uh style
is.
But um, I really like just thathe focused so much on that and
really brought it back to Ithink this is a verse that we
(11:42):
overlook sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
I had a predecessor who I it wasn't for a healthy
reason in any stretch of theimagination, but it it's pretty
cool.
And then it led me to kind of adifferent thought, which was he
would he would give every weekand he would increase his giving
each week by one penny.
And the reason he did that is hedidn't trust actually that they
(12:04):
were always uh tracking andgiving him credit for his
giving.
Uh so he knew then that that theend of the year, if it was all
the it would go one through 52.
Um, and then and then, but whatended up happening was he would
just continue to roll that over.
And over time, he ended up um II I think I think somewhere I I
(12:26):
think he was probably makingthis was in the early 2000s,
probably making about 70,000 ayear, um, and giving about
18,000 a year.
Um, and and again, by a onepenny increment, it was never,
and again, all four of his kidswent to private school.
He paid for their colleges, hehad cars, he had, you know, but
(12:49):
but he just had learned to liveon what he had, but always was
giving.
And this is the Malachi IIIprinciple.
And then for me, one of thethings I always strive to think
about, and we're we're reallyclose.
I'm like probably within a fewyears of being able to do this,
of that what it will be likewhen the largest check or the
(13:10):
largest amount given each monthwill be to my church.
And uh, and and I I can't waitfor that day.
Like, that will be such acelebratory day to me to say,
like, truly, the most I'm givingis giving to a church I love.
And what I love about God'sbiblical value of tithing and
generosity and of giving is itreally is a loss of control.
(13:34):
We don't have the ability whenwe give to a church to go, you
have to use money this way.
Or I mean, what we're reallysaying is we're saying you're
carrying us out in the kingdomof God, and I trust God.
Not not necessarily even I trustyou, I trust God to be to be
good.
Now, those who work in churchesand those who are nonprofits
(13:55):
have a responsibility, right?
And so great for them is theaccountability to the Lord uh on
that.
And so I I love it.
I love the whole process.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
I remember the day when my dad came and told us,
and I was probably a teenager atthe time, where he said, you
know what, this year I'mactually gonna give 10% of my
income to our church.
Like, and he was so proud.
And I'm sure in my teenagesnottiness, I was like, Oh, big
deal.
Can I buy this now?
You know, but I think of thatoften, like that that was a
moment he wanted to come andshare with us that that was a
(14:28):
milestone for him.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Yes, that's pretty cool that he shared that.
I yeah, that's yeah, I I I thinkas as parents who are raising
disciples, we have to be openwith our children about our
faith journey, including ourfinances.
Um, finances I don't think areprivate.
I I think when we're talkingabout giving, I think it's it's
(14:49):
something that we don't bragabout, but it it's it is
something that we do share andwe say, you know what, as a as a
tither, here's the blessingsI've received.
And it's not always financial,um, but it certainly is
spiritual and emotional.
SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
Where do you think the the shame comes from in
talking about money?
Or I don't know if it would beshame or, you know, where people
are embarrassed to talk abouttheir giving or to talk about
specific dollar amounts.
What do you think?
I mean, uh I know it comes fromSatan, but you know, like what
do you what how do we think thisgrew so much?
Because I feel like it'sdifferent now than it was 20
(15:24):
years ago or 20 years beforethat.
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Yeah.
I I I think, well, one, I Ithink we live in such a
comparison society.
Um, and I think that's just beenexasperated over the last 20
years.
Um, and I will say thiscomparison is from Satan.
The moment I compare myself tosomeone else, that is not by
God.
Um, I'm never called to comparebecause first of all, God has
(15:48):
gifted me in ways that areperfect for his kingdom and for
me to live that and out.
And my gifts are gonna bedifferent than other people's
gifts.
Okay.
And and other people are gonnahave greater gifts.
Okay.
And other people are gonna havegreater responsibilities than I
do.
And if I want to look and say, Ineed to have I I I don't I don't
think equality is is biblical,right?
(16:10):
I am in in this respect, likeGod gives to everyone where
they're called and gifted andsuited to do the best for his
kingdom.
Um my pinky does not have thesame responsibility as my heart.
Equally valuable, but differentroles and responsibilities.
And I love both greatly.
(16:30):
I would not want to give up myheart.
I would not want to give up mypinky.
Right?
But but so so I think I thinksome of that is it is all from
Satan.
And so the comparison thing isis there and it's real.
I also hate when people say it'snot equal gifts, it's equal
sacrifice, because that's nottrue either.
(16:51):
Right?
The sacrifice of Dhaka in Ugandathat gave us a chicken was way
more than a sacrifice that Imake when I say, you know, I'm
gonna be a part of let's go, andwe're not gonna do a bunch of
vacations this year.
Like, that's a sacrificeselfishly on my side, but in no
(17:13):
way did I say, My kids are notgonna have two eggs for the next
couple of days or until wereplace that chicken, and we're
gonna have to figure out how tofind the eggs.
But I love these people who cameto my house, so I'm gonna give
them a live chicken.
Like, so so the sacrifice of thewidow's might versus the rich
(17:33):
person who says, Yeah, this yearI'm gonna give this amount, but
it doesn't.
I actually just heard a storyabout this.
A guy, a guy said his um a guygave a very large gift to their
church and and he said, Thankyou, thank you, thank you.
And finally, the guy said,Please stop saying thank you.
And he goes, Why?
And he goes, Because it reallywasn't that much of a sacrifice
(17:54):
for me.
And he goes, Well then you needto pray about what you need to
give so that my thank youactually matters.
And I thought, wow, that'sthat's true.
SPEAKER_02 (18:02):
Yeah, that's convicting.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Well awareness, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Yes, I don't know if we necessarily always feel
ashamed about money, but I dothink that it's something that
people can be pretty privateabout because it is a such a
discipleship measure for thebeliever.
And if you feel like I'm notdoing this, you probably don't
(18:28):
want to talk about it very much.
I was listening to a podcastwhere someone said, you know,
when you're putting your handtowards a hot stove, you feel
the heat and you want to pull ityour hand away.
And sometimes if we're we're notgiving sacrificially, our
instinct is not to get closer tothat fire of conviction, it's to
move away.
(18:48):
And I think money is somethingthat can really be a snare and
an entrapment.
I and I'm not pointing thefinger at anybody else.
I'm talking to myself as well.
unknown (19:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:01):
So another thing that Zach talked about was he
asked a question.
What if the key to gaining agodlike heart is being generous
first?
How do you hope people respondto that question?
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
I think just trusting in the goodness of God
and that the things that he asksof us are not for our detriment,
but only for our benefit and forour flourishing.
So when he commands us to be agenerous people and to give,
he's doing that because he knowswhat's best for our hearts and
how we'll best flourish in life.
(19:39):
So he's not saying, hey, I wantyou to sacrifice so that you're
miserable.
He's saying, I want you tosacrifice so that you can know
the joy that I experienced whenI sacrificed everything for you.
SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
Yeah, don't hear me when I say this.
I I do believe this is a this isa giving series and uh the book
is about giving.
So one thing though isgenerosity is not just about
finances.
Um Tim Keller uh said that asAmericans, we can probably get
(20:13):
we actually may even be more ofa generous nation than we'd like
to give credit for.
Right.
So this is um especiallymillennials are getting this.
Um this is why at the grocerystores, at your banks, right, do
you wanna do you wanna round up?
Right.
And so so generosity isfinancially is flourishing,
(20:34):
right?
Tithing's different, and sothat's a that's generosity and
tithing are not synonyms.
Um but but generosity also ismore than finances.
And an area that I find wherefor me that I'm really working
on, as Tim Keller was talkingabout, is he said, he said, I
think, and he was talking aboutNew Yorkers, and I identified
(20:54):
with this, not because I'm a NewYorker, um, but uh he said he
said here in New York, we needto be generous with our time.
Our time is actually our mostvaluable commodity.
And so we say, How are youdoing?
but we don't really want toknow.
We walk past you and say, hello,but please don't stop me and
(21:18):
say, Hey, I would love to tellyou something about my heart.
And I find myself in a phonecall or in a conversation or
with things, and my time iswhere I need to start responding
generously greater first.
And so I I think I hope peoplewould say, where is God
(21:41):
challenging them in generosityoutside of financial as well?
But where in generosity is Godchallenging them to be generous
with whatever their mostvaluable commodity is?
And for me, right now, my mostvaluable commodity is time.
Not because I'm busy, butbecause I try to maximize as
much as I can throughout a daywith everything that I'm doing.
(22:05):
And so um sometimes I can findmyself saying, ooh, that doesn't
fit into my schedule of the day.
And yet if I give thatgenerously first, um, I find my
day's actually been better thanI would have ever planned.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
And usually there's room for it then.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
There there always there always is room, there
always is room.
I was just talking to someoneabout this, right?
Like, I don't know, it's alittle tight.
Maybe I'm gonna soap box.
Maybe you guys can edit this outif you want.
But you know, we talk work-lifebalance, and I'm always like,
what does that mean?
Right?
And then I and then I actuallydid the math.
Am I right, Julie?
You would probably know.
Are there 122 hours in a week?
(22:43):
Is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
I'm so bad at math.
I am the wrong person to ask.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
But if I recall, I believe I saw somewhere that
there's like 122 hours.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
168 total hours, like 24 hours.
Okay, great.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
168, even better for me.
So I want to work.
Think about this for a minute.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Maybe it's 122 taking out sleeping.
Okay, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
But either way, like at 168 hours.
So if my work week is 40 hours aweek, I've got four times that.
Right?
Like four times that I'm notworking.
Like, so I I like I'm startingto struggle in my head of going,
like, what is my work lifebalance wrong?
(23:28):
Like, because it looks like thelife balance is actually out of
balance.
Right?
And so, yes, there is alwaystime.
Yeah, I mean, at the end of theday, like there is always time.
And so, like, when I go, Ididn't have time this week to
work out, there were 122 extrahours.
What did I do?
Like, what do you mean I didn'thave time?
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Right.
Yeah, that's where the phone canbe such a trap.
I mean, think about howproductive people were 100 years
ago because they didn't have thephase.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Yeah, an hour goes by and I watch three cat videos
and a Jimmy Fallon joke orsomething.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Was it Michael Scott who said he saw YouTube and like
spent five days watching catvideos?
Yeah.
Yeah, YouTube.
SPEAKER_02 (24:14):
Cat videos are amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
That's not my spiritual weakness, but maybe I
need to check out some othervideos.
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (24:27):
Um, okay, so this is week one of six that we're gonna
be diving into this, and ourConnect groups are looking at
it.
People are hopefully goingthrough it in their homes.
What do you really want peopleto take from this series?
And what really, like, what'syour final takeaways from this
first message?
Or as we kick off, what are youhoping for our members to really
(24:47):
like just dive in and and andknow more about this?
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
I think just that people wouldn't take their
treasure, whatever it is,treasure of time, treasure of
money, treasure of um gifts thatGod's given to you, talents and
abilities, and putting them inthe places where God's heart is
so our hearts can look more likehis.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Yeah, I I would invite and encourage everyone to
listen to the prompt that theLord is giving to you.
And I think that in this, Godwill speak to you over the next
40 days how to be generous thatwill um make a life greater in
(25:34):
there.
Um, I was convicted recentlywhen someone was telling me how
he tries to live each day withgrace for every person, and he
was having a bad day and thingsweren't going well, and the guy
at the grocery store wasn'tbeing kind to him, and he was so
mad he was going to go tell amanager.
And right before he got to themanager, he just heard a prompt
(25:55):
from God who said, Go back.
And he went back to the man andhe said, Sir, and the guy looks
at him and goes, What do youwant now?
And he goes, I need to tell youI'm sorry.
I came in with a bad attitudeand I put that on you.
And he said, The guy balled hisfists up and he covered his face
(26:16):
and he brought his fist down andhe said, I'm really new at this.
I forgive you.
And and and he listened to theprompt of God to be generous
with the grace from God.
And that allowed someone to beable to start to use the grace
of God in his life.
(26:37):
And so I really want to seepeople I want to see me like
like listening to the voice ofGod and then actually doing it,
not ignoring it, and not and notbeing selfish, but being
generous to what God's callingme to do.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Yeah, I really liked what Zach talked about, what the
world says versus what Jesussaid.
And I wrote them down and I'mgonna read them.
So give me a second.
But I I just listening to thatprompting, here it is.
Like this is literally what thescripture says.
And the world says, protectwhat's yours and spend it while
you have it.
Give only if there's somethingin it for you, and that money is
your security equals security.
(27:14):
But Jesus says it is moreblessed to give than to receive.
Life does not consist in anabundance of possessions, to
whom much is given, much will berequired.
You cannot serve both God andmoney.
And what good is it for someoneto gain the whole world yet
forfeit their soul?
I really liked those.
And I thought, okay, that's whatI'm gonna like.
(27:35):
I wrote them down so I can keepit on my desk as we go through
this series and really find,okay, how am I listening to
those?
How am I working out those in myown life?
What am I focusing on that Jesussays that is not what the world
says?
Because it's so easy just tolisten to the world.
Wow.
Any other final takeaways as wewrap up?
(27:58):
Looking looking forward to therest of the series, and we'll
hear more about the GivingChallenge.
Until then, let's keep livingour faith beyond Sunday.
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