March 26, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode taken from the Nuts and Bolts series, the King of Kings podcast unpacks how prayer, fasting, and generosity form the essential systems that keep our faith alive and flowing. With honest insights and practical tools, the conversation explores how these simple practices, though hard to sustain, draw us closer to Jesus and free us from performance-driven faith.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we explore themessage series that we're going
through and figure out whatwe're taking past the Sunday
message.
My name is Dena Newsom.
I'm so happy you're joining ustoday and I have some amazing
guests here today.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm Kate Solberg and I'm the Associate Campus
Director at our Northwest Omahacampus.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
And I'm Greg Griffith and I get to be the lead pastor
of King of Kings.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Thank you guys so much for being here today.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
So great.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I don't know if you know this, but this week is
National Cleaning Week, and so Ihave a question for you what is
your favorite cleaning job todo and what is your least
favorite cleaning job to do?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You better go first.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
That's really actually very easy for me, so I
love doing dishes.
It's just fun and peaceful andrelaxing to me, so I do dishes.
That's my favorite, my leastfavorite is cleaning toilets.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Definitely, I would say I don't like to do any type
of cleaning, but I do.
I don't mind laundry,especially when it's done drying
.
I don't mind folding or hanginglaundry.
I could do that all day long.
That does not bother me at all.
Least favorite I have a dogthat sheds, so I hate cleaning
baseboards.
(01:32):
That is really annoying becausethey're almost instantly dirty
again.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Laundry is my least favorite, kate.
It just seems never-ending.
You finish it and you just haveto do it again.
I don't like that.
I like crossing off things offmy list, so that's my least
favorite.
My favorite well, I don't likeany kind of cleaning either.
I like organizing things, so myfavorite quote unquote cleaning
(01:59):
is like tearing apart a closetand reorganizing it, or redoing
a room when my kids have movedout, I really enjoy going
through everything, just closethe door, sorry.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You know what I hate?
I hate a disorganizedrefrigerator.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Like everything should be in its place.
Don't come over to my house Inits plan.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I should come over.
I'll organize your fridge.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Now, do you like want containers in there with labels
or just that?
No, I don't care if it's yeahbut it's sorted properly.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Like there's a spot for liquids, there's a spot for
leftovers.
The fruit and vegetables shouldbe in a fruit and vegetable
drawer, the, you know.
Everything's got its place.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Now do you have a family member that really just
does not care about that?
All three.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I have three family members that just put stuff
willy-nilly and I'm like this iswhy we never know what's in our
fridge.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, my son and your family members would get along
really well.
Yeah, it's terrible, all right.
So we are in week four of ourNuts and Bolts series, where we
are building the modern-daydisciple, and this week we
learned about the systems.
So maybe you have a system foryour fridge or a system for
(03:11):
cleaning things like that.
This is really about ourbuilding systems, and Pastor
Zach Zender really kind of doveinto this part of the Sermon of
the Mount and talking about oursystems and we're learning all
about discipleship here, and hetalked about how discipleship is
a system of being and doinglike the leader that we're
(03:33):
trying to follow, and when westop the flow, when our system
is broken, things can get messy.
If our system for followingJesus is broken, things get
backed up, they don't workpretty, they get clogged.
What did you guys take away?
What was your biggest takeawayfrom this message this week?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, I mean I had a few.
I loved a reminder that we'repeople that are praying, that
we're people that are giving andpeople that are fasting.
This is kind of whatdiscipleship looks like.
And so you know, I think Jesusis constantly putting us in
almost a juxtaposition orconundrum, right, so right, like
(04:16):
being with Jesus is kind ofjust sitting and being still,
but then that doesn't mean thatwe don't do things.
And so I think for us asWesterners, we oftentimes like
it's one or another, like I'm adisciple, I'm just doing, doing,
doing and going, going, going.
I got to be the best discipleand blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
, and yet I think it's kind ofboth and and so I kind of see it
(04:38):
as like being with Jesus justmeans that I'm walking with
Jesus in all that I do as adisciple.
But then also, what are my marksof discipleship?
And that's where our praying,giving, fasting, you know, and
then many other things but inSermon on the Mount those three
are listed kind of show what ourmarks are.
(05:00):
So I really appreciated that.
I think it was a reminder forme about that Um and and then.
And then to the reminder for mealso.
I think we make discipleship sodifficult, and it's not, it's,
it's really really quite simple,um, but it's difficult
(05:22):
spiritually.
You know, cause?
Cause it's a, it's a tactic ofthe enemy, which is when we're
in a spiritual warfare.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I was thinking about how it is.
Jesus makes it simple for usbecause we're human, but it's
also impossible in the sameregard, in that, when Zach
talked about this is what Jesuscalls us to do pray, fast, give.
And not only are we supposed todo those three things, but
(05:54):
we're supposed to do it for theright reason every time.
And that's the part where I'mlike dang.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I have to do the right thing every time and with
the right motive which seemsimpossible, it is which it's
meant to be impossible.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
That's the point Right, which leads us back to
Jesus, right?
So?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
yeah, I thought, about that.
Yeah.
So in talking about that beingand doing, do you guys consider
yourself more of a be-er, moreof a do-er?
Which side of that do youstruggle more with?
Do you think in your faith Ireally am a doer, like I'm a do
do, do, not, do, do, but do, do,do things.
(06:32):
I'm a go-getter and I reallystruggle with sitting sometimes
and forcing myself to slow downand just sit and be with Jesus,
not just in my walk and thethings that I'm doing, but
really focusing on how am Igrowing internally?
How am I growing in the word?
How am I growing?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
in my prayer.
I think I'm definitely a beer.
I think I would be right therewith Mary.
I hope I would be at the feetof Jesus and not even knowing
what Martha needed help with,I'm sure you know she'd be mad
(07:09):
at me why isn't Kate helping?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Well, you don't like to clean.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
No, I don't like to clean at all and if I have the
choice.
You know I love worship music,I love podcasts, I love sermons,
I love being in my garden.
I guess that's a little bit ofdoing, but all those like
peaceful, quiet places.
That's my special place.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I think for me the struggle really comes down to
the fact that I don't think it'sactually a one or another.
And so even your story withMartha and Mary, jesus didn't
actually have a critique untilshe said will you make my sister
help me?
Right, and so so I think, otherthan that, I think Jesus was
(07:54):
fine because it was like they'reboth being and doing in their
own stuff.
So, like you know, like, likewhen my daughter's in a show,
like for one act, you know I'mnot really with her, but when
I'm at the show, like I'm beingwith her, I am there, I'm
present, and you know what Imean.
But we're not like sitting andhaving just a conversation, and
(08:14):
that's my thing, that I'mlooking and I'm going.
I don't know that they'reexclusive.
I always look at it and go as adisciple, like any time.
Look at it and go as a disciple, like any time.
I mean Luther.
I love how Luther talked aboutprayers and just said the
deepest size of the Christianare the most heartfelt prayers
to our Father, and so when we'recovered in Christ, we are never
(08:35):
not being with him, right.
And then two conversely likeall our works, while they may be
imperfect, through Christ.
They're perfect offerings toour God, and so now,
intentionality is a piece thatwe have to always look at.
You know, am I intentional inmy prayers?
And that's the thing when we'reeither critiquing others.
(08:57):
So for me there's a seriousdanger when we start critiquing
church Like this is worship ofGod.
I don't care what style it is,I don't care if you like the
songs, I don't care if themessage just was a flat egg.
God was worshiped, and so guesswhat?
It was a great worship.
(09:18):
Now, we have responsibilitiesto put those who are leading
worship and have aresponsibility to like, honor
God with our best effort.
But I think, yeah, for me I'malways looking and saying what's
our intentionality behindsomething?
You know, am I going throughthe motions?
If I'm going through themotions of my prayer, that's
(09:38):
dangerous.
If you know, if, if I'm givingbut it's not cheerfully, or if
it's compulsion, or if it's, Ithink one thing I always notice
if it's with an expectation, solike I give but I want to make
sure they're doing the rightthings with it Wait a minute
that's not actually generosity.
You're just purchasingsomething that you want, and so
(10:03):
we have to be really, and that'swhy I think God says just give
and then let go, like let ithappen and then fasting.
Am I fasting to say like I'mspending time with God or I'm
focused on him?
Or am I fasting because I wantto have a healthier day?
And yeah, it just happens tocoincide spiritually.
(10:24):
I think Westerners were notsuper great at actually doing a
food fast, and I'll be honest,maybe I'll get in trouble from
some people on this, but this isaccurate.
The scriptures are not sayingfasting from coffee or social
media.
It's food fasting, it's noteating.
And so, you know, I foundmyself sometimes going oh I'll
(10:47):
do a fast right now, but it'llbe a digital fast.
Well, that might be somethingthat distracts you from God, but
that's not the biblical fasthe's talking about, and so I
just have to be aware of that.
I'm not saying it's right orwrong, I'm just saying be aware
of that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, so Zach brought up some games that we play in
our culture, that we really havelike an honor-shame culture
which, carried over from thePharisees at that time, was very
much an honor-shame thing inthat is the idea of this
underlying criticism ofChristians, that talks about how
Christians generally are seenas hypocritical by those outside
(11:32):
of the church and that that's acommon worldview.
What do you guys think of that?
What makes it hard to breakthat view?
What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think the only way we can break it is one
relationship at a time.
The only thing I can control isthe people that I know and the
relationship I have with thatperson, and I think if people
(12:05):
are looking to other humans asto what Christianity is, that's
okay, but really they need to belooking to who Jesus is and
what the Word says about Him todetermine what Christianity is.
None of us humans are going tolive up to His standard.
(12:26):
We're going to fall short,obviously, but I think all of us
can do a better job of honoringhim better each day, just with
how we live and how we speak.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, that's well said.
I agree with everything, kate.
I think you're right on on that.
I think, first of all,christians are hypocrites.
Every human being is ahypocrite.
We all have things that we sayand then we don't do.
That's why the saying is don'tdo what I say or don't do what I
say, don't do what I do.
(12:58):
And so Paul even struggled withthis.
So I do the things that I don'twant to do, but yet I found
myself still doing them.
So we have to be really carefulwhen we are looking at that, I
(13:22):
think.
When it's blatant hypocrisy.
So you know, if it's kind oflike, oh yeah, I'm just going
through the motion on this, thenthat's really dangerous and you
know that's just not going togo well with everything and
that's just not going to go wellwith everything.
I have a friend that his churchsign just says whatever their
church name is and then it saysno perfect people allowed.
And so when and I have anex-brother-in-law who struggled
(13:46):
with Jesus because of thehypocrisy through his own family
, and I always am reminded, evenwith everybody, kate's so right
, we're following Jesus, like ifyou're following me, if you're
following Jesus because of meand what I do, I'm going to let
you down.
So honestly, you won't be afollower of Jesus eventually,
because I'll disappoint you,I'll let you down.
But if you know and so, so likeI'm in, I'm part of the church
(14:10):
because I love Jesus in spite ofthe people, and that's the
reality of it, and so, like Ilook and go, this is all my body
right, cause that's what we are, we're the one body of Christ.
But sometimes, like, we'rewounded, sometimes it hurts, um,
sometimes it's there.
Now, as Christians, I would sayone of the things we always have
(14:31):
to be mindful of is like where,where I think we really have to
take note on this is, um, thechurch can actually be meanest
to one another, and that that'sa problem.
Um, I think one of the things Ihave found over the past few
years to remind myself about toois like for churches that have
(14:56):
voters meetings.
Would you ever invite anoutsider to a voters meeting and
most of us would say no?
And I'd be like, why?
And it's because that's likemost people are like, well,
people aren't nice to each other, and I'm like then maybe it
shouldn't happen.
You know what I mean.
Like, voters meetings aren'tbiblical, so they're definitely
(15:16):
Western politics.
So if we're putting thosesituations on there, maybe we as
a church should look and saywhy are we putting our people
through this?
You know so.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
So in Matthew 6, verses 1 through 18, zach kind
of laid out Zach didn't writethem, zach spoke about them
today or on Sunday to kind oflay out the three practices to
be sure that our system isflowing and they are giving,
fasting and praying, which we'vekind of mentioned already.
When he talks about praying, hetalks about the Lord's Prayer
(15:51):
which is part of the Sermon ofthe Mount, where it's given to
us, and he talks about thispiece of prayer is talking about
in the center of the center ofthe center of the center of the
center, like that that is thecentral practice of disciples of
Jesus.
How do you guys find thatprayer grows you, how do you
find it's a challenge for you?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, I feel like I really learned how to pray when
I was in a ladies Bible study.
They had the leadership meetinga few days before the Bible
study met and the first part ofthe meeting we just all got down
on our knees and prayed and wejust followed that simple
P-R-A-Y praise, repent, ask,yield and so really we didn't do
(16:42):
anything before.
We, just everyone gave praiseto the Lord.
There really wasn't likeindividual people repenting,
just a general repentance of oursin, and we always did those
two things before we askedanything.
And just that repetition ofweekly doing that and seeing
(17:03):
ladies do that together totallychanged how I prayed, just
because I got in that same habitand found, after you praise the
Lord and repent, sometimes yourask diminishes.
You're like wait a minute, Ijust reminded my soul who the
Lord is and who I am in regardto him.
(17:24):
I really don't need anythingafter all.
So that's, and it's based onthe Lord's prayer.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
So yeah, that's really good, that's really good.
I use that pray with myintercessors.
That's what we walk through alltogether and yeah, it's so
powerful.
And yeah, it's so powerful.
And the difference between askand yield really is like yield
is what are you letting controlof?
Go right?
Like where are you just saying,not my will, but your will, be
(17:56):
done Lord Jesus yielded in thegarden, right?
Yeah, I think for me.
Craig Ruschel wrote a wonderfulbook called Dangerous Prayers.
I would encourage anyone,everyone, to read it.
Tremendous book.
He talks a little bit aboutjust kind of one word prayers,
(18:18):
sentence prayers.
I think it's important for us toknow that we are praying people
.
It's a mark of discipleship,it's a conversation with God.
There's no right or wrongprayers, but when it becomes I
hate to use the word wrong whenit becomes wrong is when there's
not intentionality or it justbecomes a rote memorization.
(18:40):
The Lord's Prayer has a way forthat for us.
So one thing I do personally isI change language in it.
So for me, when I'm praying it,not leading it, when I'm
praying it in a room or there bymyself, I use it.
And I have to be careful,because one way I do it is I
(19:03):
pray the Lord's Prayer while Iwash my hands in the bathroom so
I have to keep thinking, so itjust doesn't become a thing I do
.
And now this is 20 seconds ofme washing my hands, but is mine
.
I'll just say you know ourFather, who is in heaven.
I haven't used the wordhallowed in a long time, so holy
is your name.
I don't ever say to a personyou trespass against me, unless
(19:25):
they're actually on my property,but I do say you've sinned
against me.
So I say you know, forgive usour sins, as we forgive those
who sin against us.
Give us our daily bread.
I'm mixing the order, so I knowsome people on there.
So that's what I'll do is turnit into some modern vernacular
like ways that I actually willtalk.
And the first few times you dothat, man, it's really like you
(19:48):
have to actually stop and think.
And so now I find myself saying, okay, keep stopping, keep
thinking, using this in the way.
That's a modern language way.
And that's an important partfor me is intentionality, I
think really does matter to God.
He doesn't wanthalf-heartedness, yeah, or rote
robots like that's not how hecreated us.
To God, he doesn't wanthalf-heartedness or rote robots.
(20:09):
That's not how he created us tobe.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I grew up with a real misconception of really what
prayer was.
It was very much a performanceand it needed to be.
A certain way is what I thought, because even when I was young
and in Sunday school, whoeverhad the job as a prayer even
though what they were doing wastrying to teach us how to pray
they gave us like a pseudoscript to work from.
(20:31):
So I thought, okay, this is howit has to be, and it was
something I was nevercomfortable with.
And now that I'm much older andhopefully a little bit wiser, I
now understand howconversational it is and my kids
will ask me about my prayer andI'm like well, I just pray to
God when I'm in the car, driving, because that's when I, or when
(20:52):
I'm in the shower or, you know,before I fall asleep, and it's
just a conversation.
Hey God, here's how my day wasand this and it's so freeing for
me to not it doesn't have to belike you said, that it's not
the right words, or you knowit's not the right words or it's
this perfect thing.
It is just our hearts speakingto Him.
So, kate, I know you and I hada conversation outside of this
(21:13):
that talked a little bit aboutfasting.
You want to tell me more aboutthat piece of things.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, I found a great .
I really like.
Zach made reference to theBible Project, and so I love
looking at their podcasts andtheir videos are so great and I
like the definition they had.
It said a way to pray with yourwhole body, temporarily
restricting your appetite toconnect with God in a posture of
(21:41):
surrender, acknowledging onlyGod can satisfy your deepest
longings.
I thought that was so beautiful.
Yeah, all those thoughts intoone thing and I felt convicted
Sunday, because I don'tregularly fast and I had a
(22:02):
mentor in college and not manypeople knew, but I knew she
regularly fasted on Tuesdays.
It was just a regular thing onour calendar.
I knew it was a day she wasmore spent, more time in prayer
and in the word, and I'vethought of that and now that I'm
25 plus years from college,that's, I still remember that
(22:25):
and so I feel like God's likeyou need to think of this, and
maybe it's not Tuesdays, maybeit's something else, but there's
a reason I included fasting inmy scripture.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, I really liked how Zach kind of tied
fasting and praying togetherwhere he talked about praying
helps connect us with God andfasting helps us disconnect with
the world so that we can reallyfocus on that.
Is there anything else you guysare really taking away from
this beyond Sunday as we wrap uphere up?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
here.
Yeah, I just think, I thinkit's one of those things that
when we right as Christians,like I would say one like we're
always called to continue tostrive to live as Jesus people,
(23:26):
and that's an important part,and I think as we do that and as
we put in these healthy rhythmsand healthy routines, it just
keeps us focused on walking withJesus.
And so I really appreciate, inthe Sermon on the Mount from
Jesus, I appreciate the reminderthat it really is about just
consistently doing the dailysteps of walking with Jesus and
(23:53):
walking with God and connectingwith God.
And so, as we think about that,there's no, I think it's
sometimes that reminder there'sno disciple who's done.
You're never, you've neverarrived, you never become the
ideal disciple, right Like Ithink.
I think, when we look atdiscipleship, I think it becomes
(24:13):
kind of this word like like youknow some and I've caught
myself sometimes you know kindof saying like oh yeah, we have
people who are followers ofJesus and then they're disciples
of Jesus.
No, no, no, you can't be aChristian without being a
disciple.
There's no such thing.
It's incongruent.
And so now is your discipleshipjourney farther along.
(24:36):
There's infants and there'sadults, but you're always still
growing, and so and that's thething is like, it's just that
reminder that God gives us thisas a lifelong journey, from
whenever we encounter and begineverlasting internal life, which
begins the moment that we areconnected to God through Jesus.
(25:00):
And so then your eternal lifebegan.
So I'm still in my eternal life.
We've all begun our eternallife as Jesus followers.
It's already happening.
So it's just that ongoingjourney with him, and so I've
really appreciated that kind ofreminder and it's an
encouragement.
So it doesn't, I don't know,for me it's not a, you know,
(25:23):
sometimes, like when you'reworking out, like you're kind of
like, will there ever be a daythat I don't need to work out,
you know, will there ever be aday that I cannot care about the
calories in a pizza?
You know and you kind of thinkabout, you think yeah, but you
kind of think about discipleship, of like, will there ever be a
day where it's all easy and it'slike, no, not in this life,
(25:46):
because it's a spiritual battle.
But we just keep going and wekeep doing it and we keep
following because we know what'sto come.
So I've enjoyed this series alot.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, one thing I thought of Ihave a friend who Jesus has
really touched her through theChosen series and I don't know
if she really had a personalrelationship with him before she
started watching.
And it affected her so muchthat when they did the filming
(26:19):
of the Sermon on the Mount, sheloaded her kids in the car and
they went to be extras.
And so in the credits she's likepause it.
There I am.
There's a long list of people,but she's there.
But it makes me think of, likeI always wonder, when we're in
heaven with Jesus one day, ifthere's like a big like
blockbuster video store that youcan go in and like you can like
(26:44):
pick out, like uh, partying inthe red sea.
I want to watch that.
Like I just wonder if, like, wecan pull out, you know, servant
on the mount, and likeexperience, like, like we were
there, you know, I just thinkthat would be so amazing.
And I think the answer is yes,that we're going to be able to
do that.
But if we can't, it's we'regoing to be able to do that, but
if we can't, it's going to besomething better than that.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah it will be better?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, it is.
So we are wrapping up thesermon series this week and,
pastor Greg, you're going to bepreaching about the finishes, so
we'll look forward to that,talking more about that next
week, and until then, thank youguys for being here.
Let's keep living our faithbeyond Sunday.
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings
podcast, where we explore themessage series that we're going
through and figure out whatwe're taking past the Sunday
message.
My name is Dena Newsom.
I'm so happy you're joining ustoday and I have some amazing
guests here today.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm Kate Solberg and I'm the Associate Campus
Director at our Northwest Omahacampus.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
And I'm Greg Griffith and I get to be the lead pastor
of King of Kings.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Thank you guys so much for being here today.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
So great.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I don't know if you know this, but this week is
National Cleaning Week, and so Ihave a question for you what is
your favorite cleaning job todo and what is your least
favorite cleaning job to do?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You better go first.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
That's really actually very easy for me, so I
love doing dishes.
It's just fun and peaceful andrelaxing to me, so I do dishes.
That's my favorite, my leastfavorite is cleaning toilets.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Definitely, I would say I don't like to do any type
of cleaning, but I do.
I don't mind laundry,especially when it's done drying
.
I don't mind folding or hanginglaundry.
I could do that all day long.
That does not bother me at all.
Least favorite I have a dogthat sheds, so I hate cleaning
baseboards.
(01:32):
That is really annoying becausethey're almost instantly dirty
again.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Laundry is my least favorite, kate.
It just seems never-ending.
You finish it and you just haveto do it again.
I don't like that.
I like crossing off things offmy list, so that's my least
favorite.
My favorite well, I don't likeany kind of cleaning either.
I like organizing things, so myfavorite quote unquote cleaning
(01:59):
is like tearing apart a closetand reorganizing it, or redoing
a room when my kids have movedout, I really enjoy going
through everything, just closethe door, sorry.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You know what I hate?
I hate a disorganizedrefrigerator.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Like everything should be in its place.
Don't come over to my house Inits plan.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I should come over.
I'll organize your fridge.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Now, do you like want containers in there with labels
or just that?
No, I don't care if it's yeahbut it's sorted properly.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Like there's a spot for liquids, there's a spot for
leftovers.
The fruit and vegetables shouldbe in a fruit and vegetable
drawer, the, you know.
Everything's got its place.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Now do you have a family member that really just
does not care about that?
All three.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I have three family members that just put stuff
willy-nilly and I'm like this iswhy we never know what's in our
fridge.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, my son and your family members would get along
really well.
Yeah, it's terrible, all right.
So we are in week four of ourNuts and Bolts series, where we
are building the modern-daydisciple, and this week we
learned about the systems.
So maybe you have a system foryour fridge or a system for
(03:11):
cleaning things like that.
This is really about ourbuilding systems, and Pastor
Zach Zender really kind of doveinto this part of the Sermon of
the Mount and talking about oursystems and we're learning all
about discipleship here, and hetalked about how discipleship is
a system of being and doinglike the leader that we're
(03:33):
trying to follow, and when westop the flow, when our system
is broken, things can get messy.
If our system for followingJesus is broken, things get
backed up, they don't workpretty, they get clogged.
What did you guys take away?
What was your biggest takeawayfrom this message this week?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, I mean I had a few.
I loved a reminder that we'repeople that are praying, that
we're people that are giving andpeople that are fasting.
This is kind of whatdiscipleship looks like.
And so you know, I think Jesusis constantly putting us in
almost a juxtaposition orconundrum, right, so right, like
(04:16):
being with Jesus is kind ofjust sitting and being still,
but then that doesn't mean thatwe don't do things.
And so I think for us asWesterners, we oftentimes like
it's one or another, like I'm adisciple, I'm just doing, doing,
doing and going, going, going.
I got to be the best discipleand blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
, and yet I think it's kind ofboth and and so I kind of see it
(04:38):
as like being with Jesus justmeans that I'm walking with
Jesus in all that I do as adisciple.
But then also, what are my marksof discipleship?
And that's where our praying,giving, fasting, you know, and
then many other things but inSermon on the Mount those three
are listed kind of show what ourmarks are.
(05:00):
So I really appreciated that.
I think it was a reminder forme about that Um and and then.
And then to the reminder for mealso.
I think we make discipleship sodifficult, and it's not, it's,
it's really really quite simple,um, but it's difficult
(05:22):
spiritually.
You know, cause?
Cause it's a, it's a tactic ofthe enemy, which is when we're
in a spiritual warfare.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I was thinking about how it is.
Jesus makes it simple for usbecause we're human, but it's
also impossible in the sameregard, in that, when Zach
talked about this is what Jesuscalls us to do pray, fast, give.
And not only are we supposed todo those three things, but
(05:54):
we're supposed to do it for theright reason every time.
And that's the part where I'mlike dang.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I have to do the right thing every time and with
the right motive which seemsimpossible, it is which it's
meant to be impossible.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
That's the point Right, which leads us back to
Jesus, right?
So?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
yeah, I thought, about that.
Yeah.
So in talking about that beingand doing, do you guys consider
yourself more of a be-er, moreof a do-er?
Which side of that do youstruggle more with?
Do you think in your faith Ireally am a doer, like I'm a do
do, do, not, do, do, but do, do,do things.
(06:32):
I'm a go-getter and I reallystruggle with sitting sometimes
and forcing myself to slow downand just sit and be with Jesus,
not just in my walk and thethings that I'm doing, but
really focusing on how am Igrowing internally?
How am I growing in the word?
How am I growing?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
in my prayer.
I think I'm definitely a beer.
I think I would be right therewith Mary.
I hope I would be at the feetof Jesus and not even knowing
what Martha needed help with,I'm sure you know she'd be mad
(07:09):
at me why isn't Kate helping?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Well, you don't like to clean.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
No, I don't like to clean at all and if I have the
choice.
You know I love worship music,I love podcasts, I love sermons,
I love being in my garden.
I guess that's a little bit ofdoing, but all those like
peaceful, quiet places.
That's my special place.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I think for me the struggle really comes down to
the fact that I don't think it'sactually a one or another.
And so even your story withMartha and Mary, jesus didn't
actually have a critique untilshe said will you make my sister
help me?
Right, and so so I think, otherthan that, I think Jesus was
(07:54):
fine because it was like they'reboth being and doing in their
own stuff.
So, like you know, like, likewhen my daughter's in a show,
like for one act, you know I'mnot really with her, but when
I'm at the show, like I'm beingwith her, I am there, I'm
present, and you know what Imean.
But we're not like sitting andhaving just a conversation, and
(08:14):
that's my thing, that I'mlooking and I'm going.
I don't know that they'reexclusive.
I always look at it and go as adisciple, like any time.
Look at it and go as a disciple, like any time.
I mean Luther.
I love how Luther talked aboutprayers and just said the
deepest size of the Christianare the most heartfelt prayers
to our Father, and so when we'recovered in Christ, we are never
(08:35):
not being with him, right.
And then two conversely likeall our works, while they may be
imperfect, through Christ.
They're perfect offerings toour God, and so now,
intentionality is a piece thatwe have to always look at.
You know, am I intentional inmy prayers?
And that's the thing when we'reeither critiquing others.
(08:57):
So for me there's a seriousdanger when we start critiquing
church Like this is worship ofGod.
I don't care what style it is,I don't care if you like the
songs, I don't care if themessage just was a flat egg.
God was worshiped, and so guesswhat?
It was a great worship.
(09:18):
Now, we have responsibilitiesto put those who are leading
worship and have aresponsibility to like, honor
God with our best effort.
But I think, yeah, for me I'malways looking and saying what's
our intentionality behindsomething?
You know, am I going throughthe motions?
If I'm going through themotions of my prayer, that's
(09:38):
dangerous.
If you know, if, if I'm givingbut it's not cheerfully, or if
it's compulsion, or if it's, Ithink one thing I always notice
if it's with an expectation, solike I give but I want to make
sure they're doing the rightthings with it Wait a minute
that's not actually generosity.
You're just purchasingsomething that you want, and so
(10:03):
we have to be really, and that'swhy I think God says just give
and then let go, like let ithappen and then fasting.
Am I fasting to say like I'mspending time with God or I'm
focused on him?
Or am I fasting because I wantto have a healthier day?
And yeah, it just happens tocoincide spiritually.
(10:24):
I think Westerners were notsuper great at actually doing a
food fast, and I'll be honest,maybe I'll get in trouble from
some people on this, but this isaccurate.
The scriptures are not sayingfasting from coffee or social
media.
It's food fasting, it's noteating.
And so, you know, I foundmyself sometimes going oh I'll
(10:47):
do a fast right now, but it'llbe a digital fast.
Well, that might be somethingthat distracts you from God, but
that's not the biblical fasthe's talking about, and so I
just have to be aware of that.
I'm not saying it's right orwrong, I'm just saying be aware
of that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, so Zach brought up some games that we play in
our culture, that we really havelike an honor-shame culture
which, carried over from thePharisees at that time, was very
much an honor-shame thing inthat is the idea of this
underlying criticism ofChristians, that talks about how
Christians generally are seenas hypocritical by those outside
(11:32):
of the church and that that's acommon worldview.
What do you guys think of that?
What makes it hard to breakthat view?
What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think the only way we can break it is one
relationship at a time.
The only thing I can control isthe people that I know and the
relationship I have with thatperson, and I think if people
(12:05):
are looking to other humans asto what Christianity is, that's
okay, but really they need to belooking to who Jesus is and
what the Word says about Him todetermine what Christianity is.
None of us humans are going tolive up to His standard.
(12:26):
We're going to fall short,obviously, but I think all of us
can do a better job of honoringhim better each day, just with
how we live and how we speak.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, that's well said.
I agree with everything, kate.
I think you're right on on that.
I think, first of all,christians are hypocrites.
Every human being is ahypocrite.
We all have things that we sayand then we don't do.
That's why the saying is don'tdo what I say or don't do what I
say, don't do what I do.
(12:58):
And so Paul even struggled withthis.
So I do the things that I don'twant to do, but yet I found
myself still doing them.
So we have to be really carefulwhen we are looking at that, I
(13:22):
think.
When it's blatant hypocrisy.
So you know, if it's kind oflike, oh yeah, I'm just going
through the motion on this, thenthat's really dangerous and you
know that's just not going togo well with everything and
that's just not going to go wellwith everything.
I have a friend that his churchsign just says whatever their
church name is and then it saysno perfect people allowed.
And so when and I have anex-brother-in-law who struggled
(13:46):
with Jesus because of thehypocrisy through his own family
, and I always am reminded, evenwith everybody, kate's so right
, we're following Jesus, like ifyou're following me, if you're
following Jesus because of meand what I do, I'm going to let
you down.
So honestly, you won't be afollower of Jesus eventually,
because I'll disappoint you,I'll let you down.
But if you know and so, so likeI'm in, I'm part of the church
(14:10):
because I love Jesus in spite ofthe people, and that's the
reality of it, and so, like Ilook and go, this is all my body
right, cause that's what we are, we're the one body of Christ.
But sometimes, like, we'rewounded, sometimes it hurts, um,
sometimes it's there.
Now, as Christians, I would sayone of the things we always have
(14:31):
to be mindful of is like where,where I think we really have to
take note on this is, um, thechurch can actually be meanest
to one another, and that that'sa problem.
Um, I think one of the things Ihave found over the past few
years to remind myself about toois like for churches that have
(14:56):
voters meetings.
Would you ever invite anoutsider to a voters meeting and
most of us would say no?
And I'd be like, why?
And it's because that's likemost people are like, well,
people aren't nice to each other, and I'm like then maybe it
shouldn't happen.
You know what I mean.
Like, voters meetings aren'tbiblical, so they're definitely
(15:16):
Western politics.
So if we're putting thosesituations on there, maybe we as
a church should look and saywhy are we putting our people
through this?
You know so.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
So in Matthew 6, verses 1 through 18, zach kind
of laid out Zach didn't writethem, zach spoke about them
today or on Sunday to kind oflay out the three practices to
be sure that our system isflowing and they are giving,
fasting and praying, which we'vekind of mentioned already.
When he talks about praying, hetalks about the Lord's Prayer
(15:51):
which is part of the Sermon ofthe Mount, where it's given to
us, and he talks about thispiece of prayer is talking about
in the center of the center ofthe center of the center of the
center, like that that is thecentral practice of disciples of
Jesus.
How do you guys find thatprayer grows you, how do you
find it's a challenge for you?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, I feel like I really learned how to pray when
I was in a ladies Bible study.
They had the leadership meetinga few days before the Bible
study met and the first part ofthe meeting we just all got down
on our knees and prayed and wejust followed that simple
P-R-A-Y praise, repent, ask,yield and so really we didn't do
(16:42):
anything before.
We, just everyone gave praiseto the Lord.
There really wasn't likeindividual people repenting,
just a general repentance of oursin, and we always did those
two things before we askedanything.
And just that repetition ofweekly doing that and seeing
(17:03):
ladies do that together totallychanged how I prayed, just
because I got in that same habitand found, after you praise the
Lord and repent, sometimes yourask diminishes.
You're like wait a minute, Ijust reminded my soul who the
Lord is and who I am in regardto him.
(17:24):
I really don't need anythingafter all.
So that's, and it's based onthe Lord's prayer.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
So yeah, that's really good, that's really good.
I use that pray with myintercessors.
That's what we walk through alltogether and yeah, it's so
powerful.
And yeah, it's so powerful.
And the difference between askand yield really is like yield
is what are you letting controlof?
Go right?
Like where are you just saying,not my will, but your will, be
(17:56):
done Lord Jesus yielded in thegarden, right?
Yeah, I think for me.
Craig Ruschel wrote a wonderfulbook called Dangerous Prayers.
I would encourage anyone,everyone, to read it.
Tremendous book.
He talks a little bit aboutjust kind of one word prayers,
(18:18):
sentence prayers.
I think it's important for us toknow that we are praying people
.
It's a mark of discipleship,it's a conversation with God.
There's no right or wrongprayers, but when it becomes I
hate to use the word wrong whenit becomes wrong is when there's
not intentionality or it justbecomes a rote memorization.
(18:40):
The Lord's Prayer has a way forthat for us.
So one thing I do personally isI change language in it.
So for me, when I'm praying it,not leading it, when I'm
praying it in a room or there bymyself, I use it.
And I have to be careful,because one way I do it is I
(19:03):
pray the Lord's Prayer while Iwash my hands in the bathroom so
I have to keep thinking, so itjust doesn't become a thing I do
.
And now this is 20 seconds ofme washing my hands, but is mine
.
I'll just say you know ourFather, who is in heaven.
I haven't used the wordhallowed in a long time, so holy
is your name.
I don't ever say to a personyou trespass against me, unless
(19:25):
they're actually on my property,but I do say you've sinned
against me.
So I say you know, forgive usour sins, as we forgive those
who sin against us.
Give us our daily bread.
I'm mixing the order, so I knowsome people on there.
So that's what I'll do is turnit into some modern vernacular
like ways that I actually willtalk.
And the first few times you dothat, man, it's really like you
(19:48):
have to actually stop and think.
And so now I find myself saying, okay, keep stopping, keep
thinking, using this in the way.
That's a modern language way.
And that's an important partfor me is intentionality, I
think really does matter to God.
He doesn't wanthalf-heartedness, yeah, or rote
robots like that's not how hecreated us.
To God, he doesn't wanthalf-heartedness or rote robots.
(20:09):
That's not how he created us tobe.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I grew up with a real misconception of really what
prayer was.
It was very much a performanceand it needed to be.
A certain way is what I thought, because even when I was young
and in Sunday school, whoeverhad the job as a prayer even
though what they were doing wastrying to teach us how to pray
they gave us like a pseudoscript to work from.
(20:31):
So I thought, okay, this is howit has to be, and it was
something I was nevercomfortable with.
And now that I'm much older andhopefully a little bit wiser, I
now understand howconversational it is and my kids
will ask me about my prayer andI'm like well, I just pray to
God when I'm in the car, driving, because that's when I, or when
(20:52):
I'm in the shower or, you know,before I fall asleep, and it's
just a conversation.
Hey God, here's how my day wasand this and it's so freeing for
me to not it doesn't have to belike you said, that it's not
the right words, or you knowit's not the right words or it's
this perfect thing.
It is just our hearts speakingto Him.
So, kate, I know you and I hada conversation outside of this
(21:13):
that talked a little bit aboutfasting.
You want to tell me more aboutthat piece of things.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well, I found a great .
I really like.
Zach made reference to theBible Project, and so I love
looking at their podcasts andtheir videos are so great and I
like the definition they had.
It said a way to pray with yourwhole body, temporarily
restricting your appetite toconnect with God in a posture of
(21:41):
surrender, acknowledging onlyGod can satisfy your deepest
longings.
I thought that was so beautiful.
Yeah, all those thoughts intoone thing and I felt convicted
Sunday, because I don'tregularly fast and I had a
(22:02):
mentor in college and not manypeople knew, but I knew she
regularly fasted on Tuesdays.
It was just a regular thing onour calendar.
I knew it was a day she wasmore spent, more time in prayer
and in the word, and I'vethought of that and now that I'm
25 plus years from college,that's, I still remember that
(22:25):
and so I feel like God's likeyou need to think of this, and
maybe it's not Tuesdays, maybeit's something else, but there's
a reason I included fasting inmy scripture.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, I really liked how Zach kind of tied
fasting and praying togetherwhere he talked about praying
helps connect us with God andfasting helps us disconnect with
the world so that we can reallyfocus on that.
Is there anything else you guysare really taking away from
this beyond Sunday as we wrap uphere up?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
here.
Yeah, I just think, I thinkit's one of those things that
when we right as Christians,like I would say one like we're
always called to continue tostrive to live as Jesus people,
(23:26):
and that's an important part,and I think as we do that and as
we put in these healthy rhythmsand healthy routines, it just
keeps us focused on walking withJesus.
And so I really appreciate, inthe Sermon on the Mount from
Jesus, I appreciate the reminderthat it really is about just
consistently doing the dailysteps of walking with Jesus and
(23:53):
walking with God and connectingwith God.
And so, as we think about that,there's no, I think it's
sometimes that reminder there'sno disciple who's done.
You're never, you've neverarrived, you never become the
ideal disciple, right Like Ithink.
I think, when we look atdiscipleship, I think it becomes
(24:13):
kind of this word like like youknow some and I've caught
myself sometimes you know kindof saying like oh yeah, we have
people who are followers ofJesus and then they're disciples
of Jesus.
No, no, no, you can't be aChristian without being a
disciple.
There's no such thing.
It's incongruent.
And so now is your discipleshipjourney farther along.
(24:36):
There's infants and there'sadults, but you're always still
growing, and so and that's thething is like, it's just that
reminder that God gives us thisas a lifelong journey, from
whenever we encounter and begineverlasting internal life, which
begins the moment that we areconnected to God through Jesus.
(25:00):
And so then your eternal lifebegan.
So I'm still in my eternal life.
We've all begun our eternallife as Jesus followers.
It's already happening.
So it's just that ongoingjourney with him, and so I've
really appreciated that kind ofreminder and it's an
encouragement.
So it doesn't, I don't know,for me it's not a, you know,
(25:23):
sometimes, like when you'reworking out, like you're kind of
like, will there ever be a daythat I don't need to work out,
you know, will there ever be aday that I cannot care about the
calories in a pizza?
You know and you kind of thinkabout, you think yeah, but you
kind of think about discipleship, of like, will there ever be a
day where it's all easy and it'slike, no, not in this life,
(25:46):
because it's a spiritual battle.
But we just keep going and wekeep doing it and we keep
following because we know what'sto come.
So I've enjoyed this series alot.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, one thing I thought of Ihave a friend who Jesus has
really touched her through theChosen series and I don't know
if she really had a personalrelationship with him before she
started watching.
And it affected her so muchthat when they did the filming
(26:19):
of the Sermon on the Mount, sheloaded her kids in the car and
they went to be extras.
And so in the credits she's likepause it.
There I am.
There's a long list of people,but she's there.
But it makes me think of, likeI always wonder, when we're in
heaven with Jesus one day, ifthere's like a big like
blockbuster video store that youcan go in and like you can like
(26:44):
pick out, like uh, partying inthe red sea.
I want to watch that.
Like I just wonder if, like, wecan pull out, you know, servant
on the mount, and likeexperience, like, like we were
there, you know, I just thinkthat would be so amazing.
And I think the answer is yes,that we're going to be able to
do that.
But if we can't, it's we'regoing to be able to do that, but
if we can't, it's going to besomething better than that.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah it will be better?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, it is.
So we are wrapping up thesermon series this week and,
pastor Greg, you're going to bepreaching about the finishes, so
we'll look forward to that,talking more about that next
week, and until then, thank youguys for being here.
Let's keep living our faithbeyond Sunday.
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