May 20, 2025 • 20 mins
"Direct your energy toward what’s within your control. This opens space for gratitude, joy, and connection." -Katie Trotter, Chief Program Officer at the Chapman Foundation for Caring Communities
We've all been there—pretending we're okay with someone's behavior while secretly stewing inside. That moment when you tell yourself, "It’s fine, I don’t care," even though frustration and resentment are bubbling under the surface. This pattern of false acceptance can quietly erode your wellbeing and relationships, keeping you stuck in cycles of irritation.
In this enlightening episode, Katie Trotter, Chief Program Officer at the Chapman Foundation for Caring Communities, shares her powerful six-step framework for breaking free from false acceptance and fostering true, meaningful acceptance. Through personal stories and actionable strategies, Katie reveals how to recognize when we’re merely tolerating behaviors, identify the deeper roots of our irritation, and approach others with curiosity instead of judgment.
True acceptance isn’t about agreeing with someone’s behavior or ignoring your feelings. It’s about reclaiming your peace by choosing thoughtful, healthier responses. These simple yet powerful steps can help you separate the person from their actions, strengthen connections, and create space for genuine understanding without sacrificing your mental wellbeing.
Tune in to discover how this approach can help you move from frustration to inner calm. Freedom and clarity might be closer than you think!
Key Points Discussed in the Episode
- Recognize the signs of false acceptance, like physical tension or internal irritation.
- Identify the root of frustration by questioning values, past experiences, and if behaviors are harmful or just annoying.
- Shift from judgment to curiosity by exploring what might motivate others' actions.
- Reframe expectations by accepting that your standards aren’t universal.
- Set clear and consistent boundaries using “I” statements without assigning blame.
- Direct energy toward what you can control and choose peace over frustration.
- To maintain a connection without condoning behaviors, learn to separate a person’s actions from who they are.
Six Steps to Free Yourself from Frustration:
- Step 1: Identify the Root of Irritation
- Step 2: Practice Curiosity Instead of Judgment
- Step 3: Decide What’s Worth Addressing
- Step 4: Reframe Your Expectations
- Step 5: Set Healthy Boundaries
- Step 6: Choose Peace and Redirect Energy
THE BLOG: https://www.chapmancommunities.org/from-tolerance-to-true-acceptance/
https://www.chapmancommunities.org/
https://www.chapmancommunities.org/partner/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie Trotter (00:02):
Acceptance isn't about agreeing with someone's
behavior.
It's simply about deciding howyou respond to it.
Adam Salgat (00:11):
Welcome to Beyond the Class From Knowledge to
Action, the audio cast thathelps Chapman Foundation alumni
continue the journey of applyingthe skills they've built and
turning them into practical,intentional actions for everyday
life.
I'm Adam Salgett, your host,and today we're talking about a
challenge many of us face atwork, at home and in life in
(00:33):
general.
If you've ever told yourself,it's fine, I don't care, while
secretly stewing over someoneelse's actions, this episode is
for you.
Our topic today is about movingbeyond frustration and
tolerance and into a place oftrue acceptance, one where we
can find greater inner peace andimprove our relationships.
(00:55):
To help us work through this,I'm joined by Katie Trotter, the
Chief Program Officer at theChapman Foundation for Caring
Communities.
Katie recently wrote afantastic blog titled From
Tolerance to True Acceptance,where she offers six actionable
steps to transform how werespond to irritating behaviors.
Katie, thanks for joining us.
Katie Trotter (01:16):
Thanks, adam, and hello to everyone who's
listening.
I'm really excited to be ableto be here to talk through these
steps together.
Adam Salgat (01:22):
Before we get into those six steps, I'd like to
start with a concept youmentioned in the blog false
acceptance.
What is false acceptance andwhy is it so important for us to
recognize it?
Katie Trotter (01:34):
False acceptance is when we tell ourselves that
we're okay with something, butreally we're just in a space of
tolerating it or putting up withit.
And when we do this, it cankeep us stuck in these cycles of
frustration or resentment andsometimes we might not even
realize it.
On the opposite end, when wetalk about true acceptance,
that's about choosing how werespond based on what's within
(01:57):
our control.
It's, moving from one to theother can take some effort, but
it's definitely worth it.
Adam Salgat (02:03):
And that's what you're going to help us with
today.
So I'm excited for that and forthose listening.
How might they know thatthey've fallen into this false
acceptance trap?
Katie Trotter (02:12):
There can be a few different ways to tell that
you're actually sitting in thatfalse acceptance space.
We might find ourselves goingout of our way to avoid someone
or avoid interacting with them.
If the challenge is withsomeone you supervise, you might
find that you're withholdinggrowth opportunities.
But sometimes there's an actualphysical reaction that you can
pay attention to.
(02:33):
If, every time the behavioroccurs, your stomach is in knots
or you're fighting back thesereally snippy comments in your
head, chances are that you're infalse acceptance.
Adam Salgat (02:51):
I can guarantee that the majority of everyone
here listening today has hadthose exact moments, because I
know in personal relationshipsand work relationships, I've
definitely had a few of thoseopportunities where snippy
comments or things like that arein my head and I know I'm
fighting them.
So, katie, thank you forclarifying that and once someone
realizes they're stuck in thatpattern, the first step that you
mentioned in the blog towardstrue acceptance is to identify
(03:14):
the root of the irritation.
Can you tell me more about thatprocess?
Katie Trotter (03:18):
Absolutely.
And this step, Adam, is allabout pausing in that moment to
reflect on why that specificbehavior is really bothering you
, and for some instances itmight be something that you can
easily identify, but if not,there are a few questions that
you can ask yourself.
To try to narrow it down, I'mjust going to give you three
(03:39):
examples of things that we couldwalk through.
First, think through is thebehavior truly harmful or is it
just personally annoying?
Sometimes there are things thatreally bother me, but it's
really more a preference asopposed to the person doing
something wrong.
Adam Salgat (03:53):
A quick example I had a teacher who consistently
used the word cumbersome.
And she used this so often,like multiple times in each
class, that at one point I waslike, okay, this is cumbersome
to listen to her talk.
But I knew I had to just getover that because, honestly,
that's not a big thing to askher to do anything about.
Katie Trotter (04:12):
That's a perfect example.
There are just some things thatwe prefer to be done a certain
way and that can be an issuethat's really bugging us.
Second question you could askis to think about what values,
preferences or expectations arebeing triggered in me.
So there might be a behaviorthat someone's doing that butts
up against a value that I haveor the way that I would expect a
(04:33):
person to show up in a meeting,for example.
The third question you couldask is are there deeper issues
like past experiences that mightbe amplifying my reaction,
experiences that might beamplifying my reaction?
So maybe I had someone I reallystruggled with in the past and
then when I interact with a teammember who might have a similar
behavior, I'm all of a suddenthinking about it in a much
larger scale.
Adam Salgat (04:54):
The first thing you mentioned in there was the
power of pause.
That can be difficult, though,can it not when you're in the
heat of the moment.
Katie Trotter (05:02):
I know it certainly is for me.
It's challenging in thosemoments where we're filled with
emotion, because reacting canfeel so much more natural than
pausing.
So it takes a tremendous amountof emotional awareness, but it
is such a powerful tool when wecan do it.
That pause can give us a momentto notice that we're reacting
(05:23):
better understand what's causingit, and then we can make an
intentional choice about how wewant to respond.
Adam Salgat (05:29):
Katie.
Then what happens when werealize, potentially, when we
take that pause, that thefrustration may actually have
more to do with ourselves thanthe other person?
Katie Trotter (05:39):
Well, that is such a humbling moment, isn't it
Adam?
Yeah, I think so.
I think the positive side ofthat moment is that it gives us
an opportunity to focus onthings that we do have control
over.
It allows us to shift frombeing frustrated about something
that someone else is doing andreally talk about.
All right, what can I do inthis space?
Adam Salgat (05:58):
I'm sure we could do an entire episode about this,
but you mentioned in there theidea of being triggered by
personal values.
Why is it important for someoneto be able to identify their
values?
Katie Trotter (06:08):
Yeah, adam, I think it's really helpful for us
to better understand what arethose behaviors or situations
that really cause us to have alot of emotion or a lot of
judgment.
In fact, in our Our CommunityServes class, we walk through an
exercise called emotionalcatalysts and we really think
through.
How do we identify in advancewhat are those behaviors that we
(06:29):
are most likely to be bugged by, so that we can make a mindful
response in advance?
Adam Salgat (06:35):
I love that, and it's a great way to really start
thinking about, like, what itis that you personally have been
through and what causes you toreact a certain way.
Okay, so, once we startreflecting on what's really
behind our irritation, yoursecond step is about getting
curious instead of frustrated.
Why is curiosity such aneffective tool?
Katie Trotter (07:10):
to be curious about the behavior of others.
For the rest of us, it's anintentional choice to practice
curiosity, and both spaces arefine.
It just means for some of usit's going to take a little bit
more effort, and so we want tolook at making a shift instead
of maybe our initial reaction oflabeling someone or assuming
intent which we do all the timeright, we might label someone as
being bad or demotivated orwrong, or we're assuming intent
(07:31):
they obviously sent that messagejust to make us mad or because
they're vying for that promotionand instead we make a shift
into asking ourselves curiousquestions what might be
motivating their behavior?
Is there maybe something thatthat person's experiencing that
you don't see?
Is there maybe a need that theyhave that's not being met?
So it's really just about thatintentional shift from reacting
(07:56):
with that judgment and insteadopening our mind to say I want
to better understand what'shappening here.
Adam Salgat (07:59):
I want to bring up a very traditional phrase out
there that I'm sure you've heardor many people have, and it's
curiosity killed the cat.
Many people don't know thatthere is a second line to that
phrase that originated in theearly 1900s and it goes
curiosity killed the cat, butsatisfaction brought it back,
(08:21):
which suggests that whilecuriosity can lead to trouble,
the satisfaction of findingknowledge or understanding can
make the risk worthwhile.
The satisfaction of findingknowledge or understanding can
make the risk worthwhile.
So the idea here if we askourselves and we look at it from
their perspective, we haveopportunity to make it
worthwhile and we can talk moreabout how that makes an impact
(08:43):
on us moving forward.
Katie Trotter (08:44):
I love that.
I'd never heard that secondpart of the quote before.
Adam Salgat (08:47):
It's often forgotten about and it was
something I went and looked upand I'm like that is a very
interesting way to remindourselves that there's not just
this negative connotation aroundcuriosity.
It can also bring us back, itcan also provide what we need
and keep us moving forward.
So, with that in mind andkeeping curiosity at forefront,
here you have an example wherethis mindset change made a
(09:09):
difference for you personally.
Katie Trotter (09:11):
Yeah and Adam.
The first one that comes to mindis really early on in my career
, so prior to having ourcommunity listens, where I could
understand why people behavedifferently or focus on task
first or people first.
I had none of that knowledge andI remember being in a team
environment where every time wewould start a team meeting I had
a coworker who would jump rightin with all of this small talk
(09:33):
and all of these connectingmoments and seeing how people
were doing, and I had so muchjudgment around the fact that
they were not being productive,they were wasting my time, right
, they didn't care about theirwork.
And I remember talking to mysupervisor at one point and
being encouraged to wonder right, they kind of introduced that
(09:53):
concept to me of curiositywonder why it is that they might
be having that behavior, whatneed might be being met, and so
for me it was really helpful tostart thinking about that lens
as we went into team meetings.
So it wasn't like it naturallymade all of my initial annoyance
move away, but it did help meto better understand that it
served a purpose and it wasactually something that was very
(10:16):
beneficial for other teammembers on meeting as well.
Adam Salgat (10:19):
What a wonderful story and a great perspective,
Katie.
So you stepped into that spaceof curiosity.
So I love that example of howit kind of changed the way
meetings continued forward.
I'd love to look at your nextstep now and the importance of
deciding what to do next.
So how do we move forward?
Katie Trotter (10:37):
Step three is really about deciding what's
worth addressing.
So you might spend some timethinking about it and realize,
hey, this behavior is harmfulit's harmful to me or it's
harmful to other people and thenit's worth considering hey, I
really might need to have aconversation with this person.
Adam Salgat (10:53):
I noticed you said conversation, not confrontation.
Katie Trotter (10:58):
That's right, Great catch.
Remember that from the classesthat we teach.
Confrontation is simply aconversation starter.
We can bring something to aperson that really breaks down
our feelings about what'shappening, the specific behavior
that they're exhibiting and theimpact that it's having.
And, Adam, I believe that youhave already done some audio
(11:18):
casts on that topic in the past.
Is that correct?
Adam Salgat (11:20):
Yes, we have.
We absolutely have.
We've done numerous over thelast four or five years, but our
most recent one, episode 103,Dissecting Top Secret FBI
Statements great opportunity togo back and we really do a great
breakdown of constructing them.
Also, how do you deliver them?
So not just how do you writeone out, but then the next step
(11:42):
of delivery.
Okay, so in step three we'relooking at deciding whether or
not this behavior is worthy ofconversation and, as we continue
on past that decision, what arewe looking at now?
Katie Trotter (11:53):
Yeah.
So once we've looked at it andwe've tried to decide whether we
need to address it or not,let's assume for this situation
that we're not needing toaddress it, okay, okay.
So step four would reallyinvolve.
All right, if I know that thisisn't a conversation that I need
to have with the other person,then I would move to step four,
which involves reframing ourexpectations.
So if someone's behavior isn'tlikely to change right, we're
(12:16):
not asking them to change thenthe healthiest thing that I can
do is to adjust my perspective.
So instead of me sitting therethinking every time they have
the behavior they should actdifferently.
I want to try to shift to.
This is who they are and how doI want to engage with that,
focusing again on the part thatI do have control over.
(12:36):
Who do I want to be in thissituation?
And it can be easier to startthinking in that way when we
begin to really recognize thatnot everyone operates by our own
standards, and that's okay.
What is common sense to me orpolite to me is not always
common sense or polite to otherpeople.
The other thing for us toremind ourselves, as humbling as
(12:58):
it can be, is that we also havehabits that others are just
tolerating right.
None of us are perfect.
Adam Salgat (13:05):
Reframing is such a great powerful tool because it
really does cause us to look atthings through a different lens,
and so I love.
I love that.
In step four and as we moveinto step five here, there are
situations where we're going toneed to set boundaries, and that
is step five.
Can you talk about doing thatsetting boundaries without
damaging relationships?
Katie Trotter (13:27):
yeah and Adam, maybe what I can do here is give
you like a couple of steps toconsider for setting boundaries
and then just give one quickexample to see how it might play
out.
When we talk about boundaries,it's about being clear on what
you can and cannot accept.
So here are some tips toconsider.
First, start by identifyingwhen a boundary is needed and
then make sure that you'recommunicating it when you are in
(13:48):
a space of being calm, right inbalance, but still be really
clear and direct, focusing on Istatements instead of blame.
And then here's the kicker Beconsistent in upholding the
boundary, and that will help theother person to really continue
to build trust with you overtime.
So let's just say that you areat work and you might have a
coworker who is missingdeadlines and then, at the very
(14:13):
end of the time, reaches out toyou to say, hey, could you help
do this for me real quick.
You might realize, hey, I needto set a boundary.
You can sit down andcommunicate that using those I
statements.
I struggle to get my tasks donewhen I am trying to help you in
a short amount of time,whatever that might look like.
But then that consistency partis key.
That means that even on thedays where you do have time and
(14:35):
it feels like I'm not reallystressed, I could help, instead
making sure that you are justcontinuing to uphold the same
boundary.
Adam Salgat (14:43):
That's a great reminder.
Great reminder.
This also reminds me a littlebit about asking someone for
change.
But how is this different?
I mean, I'm picking up on alittle bit of how this is
different.
It sounds like you're askingyourself to make the change in
this case, instead of maybeputting it on the other person
or requesting it of the otherperson.
How is citing boundaries inthis case a little bit different
(15:03):
than asking for change?
Katie Trotter (15:06):
I think in this situation, adam I see it as in
the moment even if the otherperson still continues to use
the same behavior, they stilltry to reach out.
You are saying I am going tofocus on the things that I have
ownership of, which means I'mnot going to assist with that
task that wasn't completed ontime.
Adam Salgat (15:24):
I understand.
All right, katie.
We've worked throughidentifying the problem,
reframing expectations andsetting boundaries.
The final step you offer isabout choosing peace and letting
go.
Let's discuss that further andwhat that can look like.
Katie Trotter (15:41):
You know, Adam, I really like this section.
It was a challenging one for meto look through when I was
examining the research, but it'sreally this concept of thinking
through the amount of time andeffort and energy that we spend
thinking about or worrying aboutor being frustrated about
things that are completelyoutside of our control the way
that other people are behavingand so to me, this concept of
(16:04):
choosing peace is aboutdirecting all of that time and
energy and thought towardsthings that are within your
control and kind of letting goof the other part.
I do want to be clear thatthat's not about condoning the
behavior or approving of thebehavior, but instead it's about
just kind of freeing yourselfup from that unnecessary stress.
Some practical steps, becausethat can sound really great, but
(16:28):
it's challenging, right, and itinvolves us intentionally
practicing things likemindfulness, choosing to catch
our thoughts when they start todrift in that space and
refocusing them on things thatare in your control or things
that you're grateful for.
And there's an element, too, ofjust finding some productive
ways to channel those negativefeelings.
They have to go somewhere.
Adam Salgat (16:49):
I love the idea of being able to utilize some of
these tools, but as many of usin the world are out there, you
know we're going to strugglewith this often and I would also
say, if you're struggling withthis at a very high level, doing
your best to utilize thesetools on your personal
day-to-day is great, but don'tbe afraid to ask for
(17:11):
professional help if you'restruggling to a point where it's
debilitating.
I do want to ask you about onesmall step that you take
personally that is helpful inyour situations.
Katie Trotter (17:23):
Oh, adam, that's a great question.
I think it's different for mein different situations.
For me, I first try tointentionally separate the
person from their behavior.
In my mind, right, people areso complex.
Someone can have real strengthsand gifts and skill sets and
still act in a way that mightfrustrate me, and so when I can
(17:46):
keep focusing on their value asa human being instead of that
action that bugs me, it's easierfor me to let go of the
frustration.
I will say there are timeswhere, when that still doesn't
work, I also need kind of thatphysical outlet so I might go
for a walk or do a workout orsomething, just to also need
kind of that physical outlet, soI might go for a walk or do a
workout or something, just toget myself back into that
balanced space.
Adam Salgat (18:06):
I love that.
I'm similar in the idea that ifI'm feeling frustrated and I
need to reground myself, I turnto music.
I have certain songs, certaingo-to songs or albums that bring
me back to where I want to beto focus on love, togetherness,
thankfulness.
So for me, music is definitelyan outlet that, in general, I
have found makes a greatdifference in my life.
(18:28):
Thinking about choosing peaceis such a freeing mindset, katie
, and I think it's one of themost impactful things that we
can do for ourselves, becausethere's so much in this world
that is just out of our controlmuch in this world that is just
out of our control.
Well, there you have it Sixactionable steps to help you
move from tolerance to trueacceptance.
In a lot of situations, we havea couple choices to keep
(18:51):
stewing over what bugs us or tofree ourselves by focusing on
what we can control.
Katie, is there a key takeawayyou'd like to leave our audience
with today?
Katie Trotter (19:03):
Yeah, adam, acceptance isn't about agreeing
with someone's behavior.
It's simply about deciding howyou respond to it, and when you
stop wasting energy on what youcan't control, you make room for
better things like joy andconnection and the ability to
focus on other things.
Here's a level up opportunityfor the listeners.
Think about one behavior that'sbeen frustrating you.
(19:26):
Try working through these stepsand see what opens up.
Adam Salgat (19:29):
I love that, katie.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom with us.
As we mentioned earlier, we dohave our class, our Community
Serves, which is an opportunityto look at your emotional
catalysts and your emotionalintelligence and opportunities
to continue to grow in thatspace.
Thank you for listening toBeyond the Class.
If our discussion resonatedwith you, share it with a
(19:51):
colleague or a friend and askthem to subscribe Until next
time.
I'm Adam Salga, inviting you towalk through your path with
intention, because you are themessage.
Take care, my friends.
Acceptance isn't about agreeing with someone's
behavior.
It's simply about deciding howyou respond to it.
Adam Salgat (00:11):
Welcome to Beyond the Class From Knowledge to
Action, the audio cast thathelps Chapman Foundation alumni
continue the journey of applyingthe skills they've built and
turning them into practical,intentional actions for everyday
life.
I'm Adam Salgett, your host,and today we're talking about a
challenge many of us face atwork, at home and in life in
(00:33):
general.
If you've ever told yourself,it's fine, I don't care, while
secretly stewing over someoneelse's actions, this episode is
for you.
Our topic today is about movingbeyond frustration and
tolerance and into a place oftrue acceptance, one where we
can find greater inner peace andimprove our relationships.
(00:55):
To help us work through this,I'm joined by Katie Trotter, the
Chief Program Officer at theChapman Foundation for Caring
Communities.
Katie recently wrote afantastic blog titled From
Tolerance to True Acceptance,where she offers six actionable
steps to transform how werespond to irritating behaviors.
Katie, thanks for joining us.
Katie Trotter (01:16):
Thanks, adam, and hello to everyone who's
listening.
I'm really excited to be ableto be here to talk through these
steps together.
Adam Salgat (01:22):
Before we get into those six steps, I'd like to
start with a concept youmentioned in the blog false
acceptance.
What is false acceptance andwhy is it so important for us to
recognize it?
Katie Trotter (01:34):
False acceptance is when we tell ourselves that
we're okay with something, butreally we're just in a space of
tolerating it or putting up withit.
And when we do this, it cankeep us stuck in these cycles of
frustration or resentment andsometimes we might not even
realize it.
On the opposite end, when wetalk about true acceptance,
that's about choosing how werespond based on what's within
(01:57):
our control.
It's, moving from one to theother can take some effort, but
it's definitely worth it.
Adam Salgat (02:03):
And that's what you're going to help us with
today.
So I'm excited for that and forthose listening.
How might they know thatthey've fallen into this false
acceptance trap?
Katie Trotter (02:12):
There can be a few different ways to tell that
you're actually sitting in thatfalse acceptance space.
We might find ourselves goingout of our way to avoid someone
or avoid interacting with them.
If the challenge is withsomeone you supervise, you might
find that you're withholdinggrowth opportunities.
But sometimes there's an actualphysical reaction that you can
pay attention to.
(02:33):
If, every time the behavioroccurs, your stomach is in knots
or you're fighting back thesereally snippy comments in your
head, chances are that you're infalse acceptance.
Adam Salgat (02:51):
I can guarantee that the majority of everyone
here listening today has hadthose exact moments, because I
know in personal relationshipsand work relationships, I've
definitely had a few of thoseopportunities where snippy
comments or things like that arein my head and I know I'm
fighting them.
So, katie, thank you forclarifying that and once someone
realizes they're stuck in thatpattern, the first step that you
mentioned in the blog towardstrue acceptance is to identify
(03:14):
the root of the irritation.
Can you tell me more about thatprocess?
Katie Trotter (03:18):
Absolutely.
And this step, Adam, is allabout pausing in that moment to
reflect on why that specificbehavior is really bothering you
, and for some instances itmight be something that you can
easily identify, but if not,there are a few questions that
you can ask yourself.
To try to narrow it down, I'mjust going to give you three
(03:39):
examples of things that we couldwalk through.
First, think through is thebehavior truly harmful or is it
just personally annoying?
Sometimes there are things thatreally bother me, but it's
really more a preference asopposed to the person doing
something wrong.
Adam Salgat (03:53):
A quick example I had a teacher who consistently
used the word cumbersome.
And she used this so often,like multiple times in each
class, that at one point I waslike, okay, this is cumbersome
to listen to her talk.
But I knew I had to just getover that because, honestly,
that's not a big thing to askher to do anything about.
Katie Trotter (04:12):
That's a perfect example.
There are just some things thatwe prefer to be done a certain
way and that can be an issuethat's really bugging us.
Second question you could askis to think about what values,
preferences or expectations arebeing triggered in me.
So there might be a behaviorthat someone's doing that butts
up against a value that I haveor the way that I would expect a
(04:33):
person to show up in a meeting,for example.
The third question you couldask is are there deeper issues
like past experiences that mightbe amplifying my reaction,
experiences that might beamplifying my reaction?
So maybe I had someone I reallystruggled with in the past and
then when I interact with a teammember who might have a similar
behavior, I'm all of a suddenthinking about it in a much
larger scale.
Adam Salgat (04:54):
The first thing you mentioned in there was the
power of pause.
That can be difficult, though,can it not when you're in the
heat of the moment.
Katie Trotter (05:02):
I know it certainly is for me.
It's challenging in thosemoments where we're filled with
emotion, because reacting canfeel so much more natural than
pausing.
So it takes a tremendous amountof emotional awareness, but it
is such a powerful tool when wecan do it.
That pause can give us a momentto notice that we're reacting
(05:23):
better understand what's causingit, and then we can make an
intentional choice about how wewant to respond.
Adam Salgat (05:29):
Katie.
Then what happens when werealize, potentially, when we
take that pause, that thefrustration may actually have
more to do with ourselves thanthe other person?
Katie Trotter (05:39):
Well, that is such a humbling moment, isn't it
Adam?
Yeah, I think so.
I think the positive side ofthat moment is that it gives us
an opportunity to focus onthings that we do have control
over.
It allows us to shift frombeing frustrated about something
that someone else is doing andreally talk about.
All right, what can I do inthis space?
Adam Salgat (05:58):
I'm sure we could do an entire episode about this,
but you mentioned in there theidea of being triggered by
personal values.
Why is it important for someoneto be able to identify their
values?
Katie Trotter (06:08):
Yeah, adam, I think it's really helpful for us
to better understand what arethose behaviors or situations
that really cause us to have alot of emotion or a lot of
judgment.
In fact, in our Our CommunityServes class, we walk through an
exercise called emotionalcatalysts and we really think
through.
How do we identify in advancewhat are those behaviors that we
(06:29):
are most likely to be bugged by, so that we can make a mindful
response in advance?
Adam Salgat (06:35):
I love that, and it's a great way to really start
thinking about, like, what itis that you personally have been
through and what causes you toreact a certain way.
Okay, so, once we startreflecting on what's really
behind our irritation, yoursecond step is about getting
curious instead of frustrated.
Why is curiosity such aneffective tool?
Katie Trotter (07:10):
to be curious about the behavior of others.
For the rest of us, it's anintentional choice to practice
curiosity, and both spaces arefine.
It just means for some of usit's going to take a little bit
more effort, and so we want tolook at making a shift instead
of maybe our initial reaction oflabeling someone or assuming
intent which we do all the timeright, we might label someone as
being bad or demotivated orwrong, or we're assuming intent
(07:31):
they obviously sent that messagejust to make us mad or because
they're vying for that promotionand instead we make a shift
into asking ourselves curiousquestions what might be
motivating their behavior?
Is there maybe something thatthat person's experiencing that
you don't see?
Is there maybe a need that theyhave that's not being met?
So it's really just about thatintentional shift from reacting
(07:56):
with that judgment and insteadopening our mind to say I want
to better understand what'shappening here.
Adam Salgat (07:59):
I want to bring up a very traditional phrase out
there that I'm sure you've heardor many people have, and it's
curiosity killed the cat.
Many people don't know thatthere is a second line to that
phrase that originated in theearly 1900s and it goes
curiosity killed the cat, butsatisfaction brought it back,
(08:21):
which suggests that whilecuriosity can lead to trouble,
the satisfaction of findingknowledge or understanding can
make the risk worthwhile.
The satisfaction of findingknowledge or understanding can
make the risk worthwhile.
So the idea here if we askourselves and we look at it from
their perspective, we haveopportunity to make it
worthwhile and we can talk moreabout how that makes an impact
(08:43):
on us moving forward.
Katie Trotter (08:44):
I love that.
I'd never heard that secondpart of the quote before.
Adam Salgat (08:47):
It's often forgotten about and it was
something I went and looked upand I'm like that is a very
interesting way to remindourselves that there's not just
this negative connotation aroundcuriosity.
It can also bring us back, itcan also provide what we need
and keep us moving forward.
So, with that in mind andkeeping curiosity at forefront,
here you have an example wherethis mindset change made a
(09:09):
difference for you personally.
Katie Trotter (09:11):
Yeah and Adam.
The first one that comes to mindis really early on in my career
, so prior to having ourcommunity listens, where I could
understand why people behavedifferently or focus on task
first or people first.
I had none of that knowledge andI remember being in a team
environment where every time wewould start a team meeting I had
a coworker who would jump rightin with all of this small talk
(09:33):
and all of these connectingmoments and seeing how people
were doing, and I had so muchjudgment around the fact that
they were not being productive,they were wasting my time, right
, they didn't care about theirwork.
And I remember talking to mysupervisor at one point and
being encouraged to wonder right, they kind of introduced that
(09:53):
concept to me of curiositywonder why it is that they might
be having that behavior, whatneed might be being met, and so
for me it was really helpful tostart thinking about that lens
as we went into team meetings.
So it wasn't like it naturallymade all of my initial annoyance
move away, but it did help meto better understand that it
served a purpose and it wasactually something that was very
(10:16):
beneficial for other teammembers on meeting as well.
Adam Salgat (10:19):
What a wonderful story and a great perspective,
Katie.
So you stepped into that spaceof curiosity.
So I love that example of howit kind of changed the way
meetings continued forward.
I'd love to look at your nextstep now and the importance of
deciding what to do next.
So how do we move forward?
Katie Trotter (10:37):
Step three is really about deciding what's
worth addressing.
So you might spend some timethinking about it and realize,
hey, this behavior is harmfulit's harmful to me or it's
harmful to other people and thenit's worth considering hey, I
really might need to have aconversation with this person.
Adam Salgat (10:53):
I noticed you said conversation, not confrontation.
Katie Trotter (10:58):
That's right, Great catch.
Remember that from the classesthat we teach.
Confrontation is simply aconversation starter.
We can bring something to aperson that really breaks down
our feelings about what'shappening, the specific behavior
that they're exhibiting and theimpact that it's having.
And, Adam, I believe that youhave already done some audio
(11:18):
casts on that topic in the past.
Is that correct?
Adam Salgat (11:20):
Yes, we have.
We absolutely have.
We've done numerous over thelast four or five years, but our
most recent one, episode 103,Dissecting Top Secret FBI
Statements great opportunity togo back and we really do a great
breakdown of constructing them.
Also, how do you deliver them?
So not just how do you writeone out, but then the next step
(11:42):
of delivery.
Okay, so in step three we'relooking at deciding whether or
not this behavior is worthy ofconversation and, as we continue
on past that decision, what arewe looking at now?
Katie Trotter (11:53):
Yeah.
So once we've looked at it andwe've tried to decide whether we
need to address it or not,let's assume for this situation
that we're not needing toaddress it, okay, okay.
So step four would reallyinvolve.
All right, if I know that thisisn't a conversation that I need
to have with the other person,then I would move to step four,
which involves reframing ourexpectations.
So if someone's behavior isn'tlikely to change right, we're
(12:16):
not asking them to change thenthe healthiest thing that I can
do is to adjust my perspective.
So instead of me sitting therethinking every time they have
the behavior they should actdifferently.
I want to try to shift to.
This is who they are and how doI want to engage with that,
focusing again on the part thatI do have control over.
(12:36):
Who do I want to be in thissituation?
And it can be easier to startthinking in that way when we
begin to really recognize thatnot everyone operates by our own
standards, and that's okay.
What is common sense to me orpolite to me is not always
common sense or polite to otherpeople.
The other thing for us toremind ourselves, as humbling as
(12:58):
it can be, is that we also havehabits that others are just
tolerating right.
None of us are perfect.
Adam Salgat (13:05):
Reframing is such a great powerful tool because it
really does cause us to look atthings through a different lens,
and so I love.
I love that.
In step four and as we moveinto step five here, there are
situations where we're going toneed to set boundaries, and that
is step five.
Can you talk about doing thatsetting boundaries without
damaging relationships?
Katie Trotter (13:27):
yeah and Adam, maybe what I can do here is give
you like a couple of steps toconsider for setting boundaries
and then just give one quickexample to see how it might play
out.
When we talk about boundaries,it's about being clear on what
you can and cannot accept.
So here are some tips toconsider.
First, start by identifyingwhen a boundary is needed and
then make sure that you'recommunicating it when you are in
(13:48):
a space of being calm, right inbalance, but still be really
clear and direct, focusing on Istatements instead of blame.
And then here's the kicker Beconsistent in upholding the
boundary, and that will help theother person to really continue
to build trust with you overtime.
So let's just say that you areat work and you might have a
coworker who is missingdeadlines and then, at the very
(14:13):
end of the time, reaches out toyou to say, hey, could you help
do this for me real quick.
You might realize, hey, I needto set a boundary.
You can sit down andcommunicate that using those I
statements.
I struggle to get my tasks donewhen I am trying to help you in
a short amount of time,whatever that might look like.
But then that consistency partis key.
That means that even on thedays where you do have time and
(14:35):
it feels like I'm not reallystressed, I could help, instead
making sure that you are justcontinuing to uphold the same
boundary.
Adam Salgat (14:43):
That's a great reminder.
Great reminder.
This also reminds me a littlebit about asking someone for
change.
But how is this different?
I mean, I'm picking up on alittle bit of how this is
different.
It sounds like you're askingyourself to make the change in
this case, instead of maybeputting it on the other person
or requesting it of the otherperson.
How is citing boundaries inthis case a little bit different
(15:03):
than asking for change?
Katie Trotter (15:06):
I think in this situation, adam I see it as in
the moment even if the otherperson still continues to use
the same behavior, they stilltry to reach out.
You are saying I am going tofocus on the things that I have
ownership of, which means I'mnot going to assist with that
task that wasn't completed ontime.
Adam Salgat (15:24):
I understand.
All right, katie.
We've worked throughidentifying the problem,
reframing expectations andsetting boundaries.
The final step you offer isabout choosing peace and letting
go.
Let's discuss that further andwhat that can look like.
Katie Trotter (15:41):
You know, Adam, I really like this section.
It was a challenging one for meto look through when I was
examining the research, but it'sreally this concept of thinking
through the amount of time andeffort and energy that we spend
thinking about or worrying aboutor being frustrated about
things that are completelyoutside of our control the way
that other people are behavingand so to me, this concept of
(16:04):
choosing peace is aboutdirecting all of that time and
energy and thought towardsthings that are within your
control and kind of letting goof the other part.
I do want to be clear thatthat's not about condoning the
behavior or approving of thebehavior, but instead it's about
just kind of freeing yourselfup from that unnecessary stress.
Some practical steps, becausethat can sound really great, but
(16:28):
it's challenging, right, and itinvolves us intentionally
practicing things likemindfulness, choosing to catch
our thoughts when they start todrift in that space and
refocusing them on things thatare in your control or things
that you're grateful for.
And there's an element, too, ofjust finding some productive
ways to channel those negativefeelings.
They have to go somewhere.
Adam Salgat (16:49):
I love the idea of being able to utilize some of
these tools, but as many of usin the world are out there, you
know we're going to strugglewith this often and I would also
say, if you're struggling withthis at a very high level, doing
your best to utilize thesetools on your personal
day-to-day is great, but don'tbe afraid to ask for
(17:11):
professional help if you'restruggling to a point where it's
debilitating.
I do want to ask you about onesmall step that you take
personally that is helpful inyour situations.
Katie Trotter (17:23):
Oh, adam, that's a great question.
I think it's different for mein different situations.
For me, I first try tointentionally separate the
person from their behavior.
In my mind, right, people areso complex.
Someone can have real strengthsand gifts and skill sets and
still act in a way that mightfrustrate me, and so when I can
(17:46):
keep focusing on their value asa human being instead of that
action that bugs me, it's easierfor me to let go of the
frustration.
I will say there are timeswhere, when that still doesn't
work, I also need kind of thatphysical outlet so I might go
for a walk or do a workout orsomething, just to also need
kind of that physical outlet, soI might go for a walk or do a
workout or something, just toget myself back into that
balanced space.
Adam Salgat (18:06):
I love that.
I'm similar in the idea that ifI'm feeling frustrated and I
need to reground myself, I turnto music.
I have certain songs, certaingo-to songs or albums that bring
me back to where I want to beto focus on love, togetherness,
thankfulness.
So for me, music is definitelyan outlet that, in general, I
have found makes a greatdifference in my life.
(18:28):
Thinking about choosing peaceis such a freeing mindset, katie
, and I think it's one of themost impactful things that we
can do for ourselves, becausethere's so much in this world
that is just out of our controlmuch in this world that is just
out of our control.
Well, there you have it Sixactionable steps to help you
move from tolerance to trueacceptance.
In a lot of situations, we havea couple choices to keep
(18:51):
stewing over what bugs us or tofree ourselves by focusing on
what we can control.
Katie, is there a key takeawayyou'd like to leave our audience
with today?
Katie Trotter (19:03):
Yeah, adam, acceptance isn't about agreeing
with someone's behavior.
It's simply about deciding howyou respond to it, and when you
stop wasting energy on what youcan't control, you make room for
better things like joy andconnection and the ability to
focus on other things.
Here's a level up opportunityfor the listeners.
Think about one behavior that'sbeen frustrating you.
(19:26):
Try working through these stepsand see what opens up.
Adam Salgat (19:29):
I love that, katie.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom with us.
As we mentioned earlier, we dohave our class, our Community
Serves, which is an opportunityto look at your emotional
catalysts and your emotionalintelligence and opportunities
to continue to grow in thatspace.
Thank you for listening toBeyond the Class.
If our discussion resonatedwith you, share it with a
(19:51):
colleague or a friend and askthem to subscribe Until next
time.
I'm Adam Salga, inviting you towalk through your path with
intention, because you are themessage.
Take care, my friends.
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